Question:

I’ve taken some time off to work finish my thesis (obviously not working on it right now) and I took a few minutes to watch the steelhead at Grindstone Creek.  This stretch of water is a fish sanctuary and it provides a superb view for migrating steelies.

Being able to find an area like this where you can easilly observe the fish’s behavior is very interesting and valuable, at least to me. Like you reported, it teaches you things about the fish that you wouldn’t have discovered. Willi

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I’ve taken some time off to work finish my thesis

heard that one before, fishing or thesis? fishing or… thesis? fishing … or … fishing?  fishing?  Fishing! BTW, the local fly shop recently decided to sell off all their fishng videos for $3 a piece so I picked up the SciAng Jim Teeny Steelhead video. There is one pool shown in that video where 20 fish are milling about all pointed in various directions.  The surface is flat and Teeny is pitching a nymph at the end of a 5ft sink tip with a long leader. Mu

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I’ve taken some time off to work finish my thesis heard that one before, fishing or thesis? fishing or… thesis? fishing … or … fishing?  fishing?  Fishing! BTW, the local fly shop recently decided to sell off all their fishng videos for $3 a piece so I picked up the SciAng Jim Teeny Steelhead video. There is one pool shown in that video where 20 fish are milling about all pointed in various directions……

Weird, wasn’t it?  When I saw it, I wondered just how many rocks he’d tossed in at that point. JR

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve taken some time off to work finish my thesis heard that one before, fishing or thesis? fishing or… thesis? fishing … or … fishing?  fishing?  Fishing! BTW, the local fly shop recently decided to sell off all their fishng videos for $3 a piece so I picked up the SciAng Jim Teeny Steelhead video. There is one pool shown in that video where 20 fish are milling about all pointed in various directions…… Weird, wasn’t it?  When I saw it, I wondered just how many rocks he’d tossed in at that point.

I have that video. The rock tossing works, BTW. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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I have that video. The rock tossing works, BTW.

You fish molester. But seriously, I think if I tried that rock trick on any of the streams that I used to fish in michigan, the fish would have headed about 100 yards downstream. Mu

Response:

I’ve taken some time off to work finish my thesis (obviously not working on it right now)

  Me either What’s your field? interesting obs. snipped.

Thats the beauty of putting up the stick for awhile, and having an optic.  As a more general comment on trouty lies, some of the angles fish lie at in front of,  behind and under structure are quite surprising.   In some of the little streams we find fish sitting at right angles to the current fairly regularly, we even have some pet rocks that seem to attract this sort of behaviour. There is a horse, that sits in behind a log in tailout.  The log is probably 45 degrees to the current and immediatley below is a 2-3 foot waterfall. The bank is a mere 3 feet away and a good deal of the current is forced between the log and the bank.  Depending on the the flow, the fish will be found more or less hard up to the log – but never straight up and down stream.   With the angle he lies at and the height above downstream water he can see any movement on the banks both up and down stream, has a bit of a funnel feeding him food and a relatively good oxygen supply. The force is strong with that one … Steve

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I’ve taken some time off to work finish my thesis (obviously not working on it right now)  Me either What’s your field?

MA, Cultural Anthropology – specialty – development NGOs interesting obs. snipped. Thats the beauty of putting up the stick for awhile, and having an optic.  

I should do more of this – I just get to the water too horny to spend the time. There is a horse, that sits in behind a log in tailout.  The log is probably 45 degrees to the current and immediatley below is a 2-3 foot waterfall. The bank is a mere 3 feet away and a good deal of the current is forced between the log and the bank.  Depending on the the flow, the fish will be found more or less hard up to the log – but never straight up and down stream.  

That’s why she’s a horse, eh?  My son fished to one like that in PA. the fish had put herself in an almost perfect spot.  He got in a lucky cast, the fish took and then broke him off in a twinkle. With the angle he lies at and the height above downstream water he can see any movement on the banks both up and down stream, has a bit of a funnel feeding him food and a relatively good oxygen supply. The force is strong with that one … Steve

Those are the ones that keep us coming back. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

MA, Cultural Anthropology – specialty – development NGOs

Cripes – a mouthful, that will look impressive on your business cards. NGO – Non-Government Org? Hope the writeup goes as well as it can … I’m almost there with mine, another month or 6 (shudder). I should do more of this – I just get to the water too horny to spend the time.

  Had that happen the other day, left home 2.5 hours late – primary destination was a mess – warm water algae low flows – poor fish. Arrived at secondary at least 3 hours later than usual – fished the first hour like a complete maniac i.e. badly … trouble with trees, leader stopper failing, companion was (seemingly) in my pocket – bad.  After about the 10th spooked fish I realised what the hell was going on slowed down, and started to enjoy myself … it began with a little stalking of fish for my companion.  We still did that usually 6 hour fish/walk, in three and a half hours – time enoguh left for some new water to be explored but that first section was ‘orrible. That’s why she’s a horse, eh?  My son fished to one like that in PA. the fish had put herself in an almost perfect spot.  He got in a lucky cast, the fish took and then broke him off in a twinkle.

  My nymph came unhitched from the horse almost immediately … Those are the ones that keep us coming back.

Oh yeah. Though now summer has set in fully I expect the lie will change as the water is getting uncomfortably warm. Steve (back to my Contusion)

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Steve (back to my Contusion)

you neglected to add, "Which one." – now that I’ve admitted to my feeble attempt to added to academic trivia – it’s your turn. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Steve (back to my Contusion) you neglected to add, "Which one." – now that I’ve admitted to my feeble attempt to added to academic trivia – it’s your turn.

  If your academic research is half as good as your fishing research appears to be you’ll knock the socks off …anyway its the journey … the journey …that matters …  8^) Heading for PhD in Computer Science (or a complete NBD) – topic last I looked was Synthetic Images in particular mucking about with morphing. I know one thing … I took up flyfishing a year or two before starting the undergrad thing … it has definately kept me more or less sane over the intervening 9 years.  Fishing, thinking about it, recollections, and even the scribblings here from the more sentient beings that inhabit roff all help. Though I look forward to finishing, my mid-week forays into the forests of "Nophishe Valley" and "Watchemecrawlalong ck" will be severely curtailed by a return to full-time work … back to the evening rise and weekend fishing (which I haven’t done for probably 3-4 years!)  On the other hand I will have more shekels for trips and gear Steve

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Weird, wasn’t it?  When I saw it, I wondered just how many rocks he’d tossed in at that point. I have that video. The rock tossing works, BTW.

Yes it does.  Teeny gets a lot of flack from a lot of folks, but he’s a hell of a steelhead fisherman.  I rarely sight fish to steelhead in the rivers around here, but if I were unable to move a fish I could see and cast well to, I’d probably toss a rock or two myself. JR

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I’ve taken some time off to work finish my thesis (obviously not working on it right now) and I took a few minutes to watch the steelhead at Grindstone Creek.  This stretch of water is a fish sanctuary and it provides a superb view for migrating steelies. There is a small plunge pool downstream from a small rock face/chute of about 3′ high.  The water rushes through the chute into the pool, creating a white water plume about 20′ long and 5′ wide.  Unlike most days, the water was gin clear and afford an unobstructed view of the fish. Surprise No.1 – the holding fish were lying approximately 90 to 120 degrees off the current, under the plume.  Obviously, the plume creates eddies along the bottom and these fish had their heads pointed into the eddy current direction.  Most of the fish were angled slightly downstream.  One pair were snuggled up to the base of the rock wall, holding side-by-side, perpendicular to the rushing plume above their heads. Surprise No. 2 – well not really a surprise, just a confirmation – many of the fish were madly dashing about chasing each other at high speed.  Obviously not the slow metabolism, frozen fish syndrome we keep hearing about.  A fast presentation would have probably been effective on these fish. One other observation, some of the fish held just outside of the plume but none would venture very far from its cover.  Now this could be attributed to my presence but as I approached, I could see the fish clearly and the closest didn’t spook until I got very close.  I stood very still and within a minute or two, the fish ignored me and went back to their previous positions.  None of the fish were holding more than 3′ from the plume and even when they dash about, they rarely left its cover. These observations will certainly influence my next steelhead trip as I don’t think I’ll look at this type of water the same way again.  I had always been told that steelhead won’t hold in back eddies but these fish put the lie to that theory.  From now one, I’ll try to visualize the fish pointing in different directions depending on the current and not just the head-upstream we always assume. One effective nymphing presentation, anywhere eddies rotate from the rear of the plume to the front, would be to cast a nymph into the tailout and allow the nymph to be brought into the head of the plume by the eddie, plunge down the plume, then repeat.  I’ve caught carp here using this method when the regs permitted but never thought to use it for steelhead – that thing about steelies not holding pointing downstream.  Next time . . . No reason this wouldn’t be true for residents either. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Question:

   I was wondering what fishermen actually prefer from kayakers and canoeists.  When paddling down stream, is it better for us to move to the opposite bank (furthest from you) or is it better to pass close to you so as not to spook fish?  Any suggestions or guidelines would be greatly appreciated.

It depends upon how big the river is. If it’s pretty big, try to go to the opposite side of the water. If it’s small, I’d hold upstream a little and actually ask the fisherman. No spot on the river will actually be a good one for you, but some might be better than others. I’m doing most of my fishing on an urban reservoir now. The jetskiers and water skiers are becoming something of a problem. It’s illegal to operate one fast enough to create a wake within 150′ of a shore fisherman, but a number of them don’t seem to care. Maybe I should tuck my coupon book into my tackle box when I’m fishing. "No, sir, I wasn’t goofing off. I was conducting a stakeout for unsafe boating practices!" And I’m soooo sure he’d buy that. You spam my account, I nuke your ass. Simple enough.

Response:

I myself have been thinking of buying a canoe for fishing those waters where access is not very good and the waters too small for my jon boat. As far as having a canoe or kayak pass over the fish, and then waiting for them to recover, I’m sure the recovery period is a lot less than having a Bayliner with a couple of jerks on skis, or a couple of PWC (jet-skis) put your fish down. Some of the lakes I fish are so tore up from these inconsiderate morons, that the weeds are floating for several hours or days after a busy weekend. I could be fishing in a small bay and the idiots will have a whole lake to ski on, and for some reason they just have to find their way into that bay I’m fishing to scare the fish. No wonder I think of bringing the Ruger  with me when I fish. <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    < <    <    <    <    <    <

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As somebody who has been hit, almost hit and chased from the stream by a "fiberglass hatch" of jerks, I’d like to add my two cents worth.  While being hit is not tolerable, we  may as well get used to kayaks and  canoes.  Actually, I would like to get  one or the other to fish streams with  limited shore access.  I think that fish  in a water with lots of canoe&kayak  traffic have to recover quickly after one  passes over.  They’d starve otherwise.  Greg.

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And why clip off the fly?? Some of those inconsiderate jerks would look nice with a royal wolff for and earring… <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    < <    <    <    <    <    <

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Pack a .44 magnum in your vest pocket. Take your testosterone powered bass buggy somewhere else.  To pull out even a sling-shot could cost you more than you can imagine.  Clipping off the fly and "accidentally" false casting close to the ear, now that may deliver the message without making a victim of the offender. Wayne to fish is human….to release Divine!!!

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Couldn’t have said it better myownself.  <g PC – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Stay as far away as possible Hi,    I was wondering what fishermen actually prefer from kayakers and canoeists.  When paddling down stream, is it better for us to move to the opposite bank (furthest from you) or is it better to pass close to you so as not to spook fish?  Any suggestions or guidelines would be greatly appreciated. Just got back from the AuSable in Michigan (TR to follow.)  Here’s a bit more into on the aluminum/fiberglass hatch and spooking fish.  On Saturday, the temperature was in the high 80’s and the humidex was off the dial.  Every bubba and his bubbette was rafting, kayaking, and canoeing down the AuSable right in front of the Gates Lodge.  A body couldn’t squeeze a cast in between boats.  Just downstream from Gates is the pullout point for the rentals and it siphons off about 95% of the bubba traffic (of which I became one on Sunday, but more on that later.)  On Sunday, a front had blown through bringing rain, high winds and much colder temps.  This took care of the vast majority of the canoeists (except for yours truly and his bubbette.)  By the evening, I’m back on the water in my rightful position – standing in it not floating on it, and above the pullout point, I couldn’t buy a strike.  Below the pullout there were plenty of fish.  A full 24 hrs. after the bubba hatch, those upstream were still spooked.  I spoke to the store owner this morning and he confirmed that a good bubba hatch will drive the fish down for quite a while. Maybe the occasional boat won’t shake things up much but it looks like a steady bubba hatch will put fish off for quite a while – at least 24 hrs. or more if this experience is anything to go by. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

– Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

Response:

Maybe they could ferry my Power Bait to a hole I can’t reach from the bank.

Now that the State no longer stocks catchables in streams and rivers, you don’t still use Powerbait, do you? From what I’ve seen, it’s not very effective for streambred fish. Willi

Response:

Hi,    I was wondering what fishermen actually prefer from kayakers and canoeists.  When paddling down stream, is it better for us to move to the opposite bank (furthest from you) or is it better to pass close to you so as not to spook fish?  Any suggestions or guidelines would be greatly appreciated.

Just got back from the AuSable in Michigan (TR to follow.)  Here’s a bit more into on the aluminum/fiberglass hatch and spooking fish.  On Saturday, the temperature was in the high 80’s and the humidex was off the dial.  Every bubba and his bubbette was rafting, kayaking, and canoeing down the AuSable right in front of the Gates Lodge.  A body couldn’t squeeze a cast in between boats.  Just downstream from Gates is the pullout point for the rentals and it siphons off about 95% of the bubba traffic (of which I became one on Sunday, but more on that later.)  On Sunday, a front had blown through bringing rain, high winds and much colder temps.  This took care of the vast majority of the canoeists (except for yours truly and his bubbette.)  By the evening, I’m back on the water in my rightful position – standing in it not floating on it, and above the pullout point, I couldn’t buy a strike.  Below the pullout there were plenty of fish.  A full 24 hrs. after the bubba hatch, those upstream were still spooked.  I spoke to the store owner this morning and he confirmed that a good bubba hatch will drive the fish down for quite a while. Maybe the occasional boat won’t shake things up much but it looks like a steady bubba hatch will put fish off for quite a while – at least 24 hrs. or more if this experience is anything to go by. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Stay as far away as possible – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi,    I was wondering what fishermen actually prefer from kayakers and canoeists.  When paddling down stream, is it better for us to move to the opposite bank (furthest from you) or is it better to pass close to you so as not to spook fish?  Any suggestions or guidelines would be greatly appreciated. Just got back from the AuSable in Michigan (TR to follow.)  Here’s a bit more into on the aluminum/fiberglass hatch and spooking fish.  On Saturday, the temperature was in the high 80’s and the humidex was off the dial.  Every bubba and his bubbette was rafting, kayaking, and canoeing down the AuSable right in front of the Gates Lodge.  A body couldn’t squeeze a cast in between boats.  Just downstream from Gates is the pullout point for the rentals and it siphons off about 95% of the bubba traffic (of which I became one on Sunday, but more on that later.)  On Sunday, a front had blown through bringing rain, high winds and much colder temps.  This took care of the vast majority of the canoeists (except for yours truly and his bubbette.)  By the evening, I’m back on the water in my rightful position – standing in it not floating on it, and above the pullout point, I couldn’t buy a strike.  Below the pullout there were plenty of fish.  A full 24 hrs. after the bubba hatch, those upstream were still spooked.  I spoke to the store owner this morning and he confirmed that a good bubba hatch will drive the fish down for quite a while. Maybe the occasional boat won’t shake things up much but it looks like a steady bubba hatch will put fish off for quite a while – at least 24 hrs. or more if this experience is anything to go by. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

I think if they’d just show their tits it would solve a lot or problems. — The Halfordian Golfer

Response:

 While being hit is not tolerable, we  may as well get used to kayaks and  canoes.  Actually, I would like to get  one or the other to fish streams with  limited shore access.  I think that fish  in a water with lots of canoe&kayak  traffic have to recover quickly after one  passes over.  They’d starve otherwise.

Maybe they could ferry my Power Bait to a hole I can’t reach from the bank. — TBone Walker The Halfordian Golfer

Response:

(copied from above) Afraid I can’t offer a real plan for dealing with these folks.  There doesn’t seem to be a reasonable, effective response. Wayne to fish is human….to release Divine!!!

Just showing you a reasonable, EFFECTIVE response. And if you can’t find the humor in what I posted… <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    < <    <    <    <    <    <

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Pack a .44 magnum in your vest pocket. Take your testosterone powered bass buggy somewhere else.  To pull out even a sling-shot could cost you more than you can imagine.  Clipping off the fly and "accidentally" false casting close to the ear, now that may deliver the message without making a victim of the offender. Wayne to fish is human….to release Divine!!!

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Any suggestions or guidelines would be greatly appreciated. Best thing wood be to merely take a break as your canoein’ friends pass by!! It’s NOT really all that big of a deal when you think about it! trout — I come here for the education, I stay for the amusement. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi,    I was wondering what fishermen actually prefer from kayakers and canoeists.  When paddling down stream, is it better for us to move to the opposite bank (furthest from you) or is it better to pass close to you so as not to spook fish?  Any suggestions or guidelines would be greatly appreciated.

Response:

I’m with you on this one. Op

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any suggestions or guidelines would be greatly appreciated. Best thing wood be to merely take a break as your canoein’ friends pass by!! It’s NOT really all that big of a deal when you think about it! trout — I come here for the education, I stay for the amusement. Hi,    I was wondering what fishermen actually prefer from kayakers and canoeists.  When paddling down stream, is it better for us to move to the opposite bank (furthest from you) or is it better to pass close to you so as not to spook fish?  Any suggestions or guidelines would be greatly appreciated.

Response:

Pack a .44 magnum in your vest pocket.

Take your testosterone powered bass buggy somewhere else.  To pull out even a sling-shot could cost you more than you can imagine.  Clipping off the fly and "accidentally" false casting close to the ear, now that may deliver the message without making a victim of the offender. Wayne to fish is human….to release Divine!!!

Response:

These two rules I agree with 1,000,000,000,000 % ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    < <    <    <    <    <    <

                               (snip – snip) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Rule #4 – when you ruin my day as you float by,  don’t smile and say, "How’s the fishing?"  I’m likely to tell you. Rule #5 – if you’re planning a big event that’ll take over a river, publicize it at the local fishing shops – then I’ll know to stay home.

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Pack a .44 magnum in your vest pocket. <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    < <    <    <    <    <    <

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I never seem to have a problem with kayakers who are fishing.  They seem to be the more knowledgable.  Canoeist tend to be worse and the very worst are the fairly new and occasional recreation kayakers. I’ve actually had these later types paddle over from across 200 feet of river and paddle around me while asking about the fishing.  They just seemed to want to get the most out of their "wilderness" experience.  No amount of verbal abuse shakes these types, they just get their nose out of joint because you made their day less pleasant. Tubers are totally self-absorbed and could care less about anything or anyone else on the water.  Nothing you can do or say, short of causing yourself a good deal of trouble, has any influence on this crowd. What really torques me about most of these people is that the waters I fish which also supports floaters, is plenty big for rafters, boaters, and tubers to pass well away from the few wading fishermen they pass. Afraid I can’t offer a real plan for dealing with these folks.  There doesn’t seem to be a reasonable, effective response. Wayne to fish is human….to release Divine!!!

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I never seem to have a problem with kayakers who are fishing.  They seem to be the more knowledgable.  Canoeist tend to be worse and the very worst are the fairly new and occasional recreation kayakers. I’ve actually had these later types paddle over from across 200 feet of river and paddle around me while asking about the fishing.  They just seemed to want to get the most out of their "wilderness" experience.  No amount of verbal abuse shakes these types, they just get their nose out of joint because you made their day less pleasant. Tubers are totally self-absorbed and could care less about anything or anyone else on the water.  Nothing you can do or say, short of causing yourself a good deal of trouble, has any influence on this crowd. What really torques me about most of these people is that the waters I fish which also supports floaters, is plenty big for rafters, boaters, and tubers to pass well away from the few wading fishermen they pass. Afraid I can’t offer a real plan for dealing with these folks.  There doesn’t seem to be a reasonable, effective response. Wayne to fish is human….to release Divine!!!

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I prefer to pass farther away (I paddle mostly where bait casters are), but if that line is going to put me in a bad current or into a power boat lane, I’ll just apologize and go by the fisherman.  As a fisherperson myself, I don’t worry too much about spooking the fish. I have observed them while fishing in very clear waters, while swimming, and while just siting around.  Unless there’s a real overabundance of fishermen, in which case the paddlers have little to do with it, they will spook, but will be back in 5 to 10 minutes.   I’ve tried to spook some wild (for many decades of generations.  No stocking done in at least 20 years, maybe more like 40) trout in a fairly heavily fished stream at one of the most popular pools (It was a late Sunday afternoon and I was the only one there, btw.).  Only way I’ve found it can be done is to stand up and skyline yourself.  Noise? No problem. Vibrations on the bank?  No problem.  Swinging your arms around?  Flailing your lure wildly?  No problem.  Let them see you standing up, even a child standing up, and they’re gone.  For as long as their tiny brains can remember danger versus food.  About 5 to 10 minutes on average.  Bream and Walleye and Pike vary.  Bream are about 5 minutes, Walleye and Pike about 15.  I have no clue on Bass.  Bass tend to be under cover and hard to watch, even in very clear water. Carp and Suckers are about 5 to 10.   Now if you’re going down a popular paddling river and there’s a canoe passing the fisherman every 10 to 20 minutes or less, yes, it’ll be bad for him.  Not earth shaking where I am as I tend to fish and paddle in MN and WI, where there are lots of places to do both or either.  The very few relatively crowded trout rivers I’ve gone on do not have paddlers (well, I did once see some tourons risking hypothermia in the evening in a rubber raft.  That water is cold* and they had no warm or dry gear along.).  If, however, I went to the Montana mountain streams to trout fish, I’d be a bit bummed to have some wild paddling action going on all over the river.   But if I were on one of the kayaking rivers out East (Natuhala? Something like that) I’d be checking for dam releases and going somewhere else when there were some, because it’d be nothing but ‘yaks and rafts and inflatables all day long.  I’d rather not fish than spend my day getting pissed off.  Then again, I tend to drive the speed limit or under and stay in the right hand lane, just to preserve my temper. Hi,    I was wondering what fishermen actually prefer from kayakers and canoeists.  When paddling down stream, is it better for us to move to the opposite bank (furthest from you) or is it better to pass close to you so as not to spook fish?  Any suggestions or guidelines would be greatly appreciated.

— rbc:  vixen    Fairly harmless http://www.visi.com/~cyli

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Hi,    I was wondering what fishermen actually prefer from kayakers and canoeists.  When paddling down stream, is it better for us to move to the opposite bank (furthest from you) or is it better to pass close to you so as not to spook fish?  Any suggestions or guidelines would be greatly appreciated.

Somebody else has already pointed out, we don’t "share" the water with kayakers – they have it – we leave. As somebody who has been hit, almost hit and chased from the stream by a "fiberglass hatch" of jerks, I’d like to add my two cents worth.   Rule #1 – go behind the angler – the fish are in front of him. Rule #2 – go somewhere else.  I’m not being facetious.  Anglers are constrained by a large number of factors, fishing regulations, private property, water conditions, etc.  OTOH, a kayaker can go anywhere there’s enough water to float his boat.  Don’t float prime fishing water during the best part of the fishing season.  There’s plenty of other water for you to use. Rule #3 – Learn to control your boat.  The dickhead that ran into me could’ve broken my leg. Rule #4 – when you ruin my day as you float by,  don’t smile and say, "How’s the fishing?"  I’m likely to tell you. Rule #5 – if you’re planning a big event that’ll take over a river, publicize it at the local fishing shops – then I’ll know to stay home. HTH Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Ken, Now it’s bothering me.  I know that I’ve heard or read your name before.  Do you post elsewhere? Thanks, Doug – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Doug Hall Doug,      You don’t by any chance teach at Portland State do you?      - Ken

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Doug Hall

Doug,      You don’t by any chance teach at Portland State do you?      - Ken

Response:

in my part of the world,(SW Va.)there are many float fishermen. When floating and fishing should the boat give right of way to the wading fisherman? I think so…the float fisherman will cover a helluva lot more water than the one wading. It rarely happens though. I too have had jerks come way to close to me throwing them damn rackety ass buzz baits. Makes for some well placed false casts, if you know what I mean. Tim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     I was wondering what fishermen actually prefer from kayakers and canoeists.  When paddling down stream, is it better for us to move to the opposite bank (furthest from you) or is it better to pass close to you so  as not to spook fish?  Any suggestions or guidelines would be greatly appreciated. On a large enough river, it’s best if you stay as far away as possible. Most of the time, a fisherman will be casting to a fish less than 40 feet away.   On a smaller river, where the fisherman can easily cast to either bank, it ain’t gonna matter.  Not only your shadow, but any noise or water disturbance will spook a wary fish.    Just pass by as smoothly and quietly as possible with an apologetic "I’m sorry I f*cked up your pool" expression on your face.   Although we realize we sometimes have to share a river with other uses, it’s not really sharing.   Kayakers can paddle where we fish, but we can’t fish where they paddle.   Thanks for asking. Joe F.

Response:

Michael, Lets see, if you only go down the river between the hours of 8:30 to 9:15 a.m.  and then we’ll allow you another 12 minutes in the afternoon, unless there’s a hatch going on.  Other than that, stay off our rivers, because flyfishing is the ONLY acceptable use for all rivers:).  No, but really, just the fact that you are trying to be polite and a simple "excuse me" or any normal courtesy should do.  Just like passing someone in a small hallway.  I’m sure that there will be those who feel that they have exclusive right to the river (and I’m also sure that I will hear from them) but even flyfisherman have to share the river.  Maybe we should be apologizing for blocking the whole damn river with our casting?  I think that some people should take their sports a little less serious.  It’s supposed to be about fun, and if a fish gets put down occasionally, oh well. It’s happened to me more than a few times. I got over it and so will they. Thanks for asking. Doug Hall

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi,     I was wondering what fishermen actually prefer from kayakers and canoeists.  When paddling down stream, is it better for us to move to the opposite bank (furthest from you) or is it better to pass close to you so as not to spook fish?  Any suggestions or guidelines would be greatly appreciated.

Response:

    I was wondering what fishermen actually prefer from kayakers and canoeists.  When paddling down stream, is it better for us to move to the opposite bank (furthest from you) or is it better to pass close to you so as not to spook fish?  Any suggestions or guidelines would be greatly appreciated.

On a large enough river, it’s best if you stay as far away as possible. Most of the time, a fisherman will be casting to a fish less than 40 feet away.   On a smaller river, where the fisherman can easily cast to either bank, it ain’t gonna matter.  Not only your shadow, but any noise or water disturbance will spook a wary fish.    Just pass by as smoothly and quietly as possible with an apologetic "I’m sorry I f*cked up your pool" expression on your face.   Although we realize we sometimes have to share a river with other uses, it’s not really sharing.   Kayakers can paddle where we fish, but we can’t fish where they paddle.   Thanks for asking. Joe F.

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Couldn’t have said it better myself ! ! ! ! ! <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    < <    <    <    <    <    <

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     I was wondering what fishermen actually prefer from kayakers and canoeists.  When paddling down stream, is it better for us to move to the opposite bank (furthest from you) or is it better to pass close to you so as not to spook fish?  Any suggestions or guidelines would be greatly appreciated. On a large enough river, it’s best if you stay as far away as possible. Most of the time, a fisherman will be casting to a fish less than 40 feet away.   On a smaller river, where the fisherman can easily cast to either bank, it ain’t gonna matter.  Not only your shadow, but any noise or water disturbance will spook a wary fish.    Just pass by as smoothly and quietly as possible with an apologetic "I’m sorry I f*cked up your pool" expression on your face.   Although we realize we sometimes have to share a river with other uses, it’s not really sharing.   Kayakers can paddle where we fish, but we can’t fish where they paddle.   Thanks for asking. Joe F.

Response:

Hi,     I was wondering what fishermen actually prefer from kayakers and canoeists.  When paddling down stream, is it better for us to move to the opposite bank (furthest from you) or is it better to pass close to you so as not to spook fish?  Any suggestions or guidelines would be greatly appreciated.

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Question:

Really getting fixated on this one…..anxious to try out some of my woolies in other waters…..got a link for white miller flies?…..john

  Joe Bruce from the Anglers Edge here in Baltimore (the man writes very good books and makes videos on catching smallies with a fly rod), suggests a White Wulff.  I can see where this would work.  For all parts of a Wulff fly, use white materials.   They seem to be perfect. A size 14 or 16 as the White Miller mayfly on the mid-Atlantic rivers (as opposed to the White Miller caddis) is a perfect size 15.    We will be at the last gasps of the white miller hatch on the 19- 20th of August.  The bass may still hit on a white pattern because of conditioning.  Or it may be because a fish will hit whatever pisses him off.  Its worth a try.    BTW, Frank Church and I will be on site from the evening of Friday the 18th.  If anyone wants to drop in, there will be a cold one available.                            Frank Reid                              F Before you buy.

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John, bring that kayak and get ready for some fun.  If the river levels hold you will be in for a real treat. — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Really getting fixated on this one…..anxious to try out some of my woolies in other waters…..got a link for white miller flies?…..john Dianna and I tripped down to the Rappahannock today and visited the campground.  Pictures will be available tomorrow sometime.  I talked with one of the campground owners and with a friend who guides the Rappahannock. Seems a 5 lb. smallie came from the rapids just above the campground, caught by one of the happy campers.  The guide was fishing this past week and had a little 10 inch smallie on.  Before he could strip it in a BIG smallie rose from the bottom of the pool and nailed it!  SIX POUNDS!!!  After a fine day of fishing we were on the way off the river this afternoon.  I handed my wife my 6 wt. with the lead-eyed hellgrammite and I picked up the Connor 4 wt. with the White Miller dry.  I tried a couple of fish then hit a Damsel fly in mid-cast with the Miller.  The Damsel fluttered to the water about 4 feet from me and twitched a couple of times, WHAM!!  The bass nearly caused an enviromental castrophe.  I dropped the Miller just beyond the splash and gave a couple of twitches, WHAM!!! again.  This time with hook set.  Nice little smallie. #12 White Millers with an occasional twitch and black Murray’s Lead-eyed Hellgrammite workrd wonders today.  Saw Millers all day and a hatch underway just after noon for about 30 minutes.  The top of the river got real busy. A good time was had by all. — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

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My OE screen says the post was at 8:40 pm.  Lower right hand clock is dead on.  Could it be the posting news server in another time zone?  I’ve noticed this with other posters. — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [snipped] For crying out loud, Wayne, what’s it going to take to get you to correctly set your computer’s clock? Or do I need to contact your ISP? Seriously, your post (the one I’m responding to) shows up on my server as having been sent at 11:40pm. I’m responding at 10:05pm, so I’m guessing somewhere between your PC and mine there’s a machine that is off by 2 hours. Your posts have been that way for several months. What gives? –Steve (and my those smallies do sound fun)

Response:

I used to think he was a mind reader and was answering posts before you made them.  :-) Ernie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – simple……tiime flies when yur having fun….john [snipped] For crying out loud, Wayne, what’s it going to take to get you to correctly set your computer’s clock? Or do I need to contact your ISP? Seriously, your post (the one I’m responding to) shows up on my server as having been sent at 11:40pm. I’m responding at 10:05pm, so I’m guessing somewhere between your PC and mine there’s a machine that is off by 2 hours. Your posts have been that way for several months. What gives? –Steve (and my those smallies do sound fun)

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Frank Sr.    If your grill doesn’t work, don’t worry, I’ve got some buffalo chips saved from Nebraska as a backup.  Cook them steaks up real nice.  Keeps the skeeters down too.            Frank Jr. Before you buy.

Response:

Er, ah, maybe you ought to bring ‘tater chips instead of buffalo chips, no offense. :-/ Frank Sr. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Frank Sr.   If your grill doesn’t work, don’t worry, I’ve got some buffalo chips saved from Nebraska as a backup.  Cook them steaks up real nice.  Keeps the skeeters down too.           Frank Jr. Before you buy.

Response:

Damn Wayne, if you keep this up I don’t know if I can wait until 18 Aug to do battle with those fishies.  Wuz gonna bring my pontoon boat but it is not designed for river floating (some of the frame hangs very close to the water line under my seat) this could make for some interesting results if I get hung up on a rock in rapids, etc.  I could visualize starting the float as a tenor and coming in to camp as a soprano. :-] Hey, I can live with just wade-fishing.  BTW, Frank Jr. and I have decided steaks would be nice so I am bringing my portable gas grill…FWIW. Frank (one hung low) Church – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – John, bring that kayak and get ready for some fun.  If the river levels hold you will be in for a real treat.

Response:

Well Pugs, my son is a Navy Chaplain, if you need ‘counseling’ to overcome your grief at missing the mini-clave, I’m sure he could help you out.  Only problem is you’d have to fly in to Naples for said counseling.  Think you could handle that?  ;-)) Frank (boy, do I need counseling!)  Church – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wayne, Please stop! Your continued posting of how good the fishing is going to be at the Clave makes me want to drop my orders to PR in the shredder.  Aren’t you aware of the consequences? Why without this trip the people of Vieques Island will have to go without the sound of freedom over their heads or ordnance impacting the dirt at all hours of the night. I guess I can always hope for a hurricane to head that way to cancel the whole thing then I’ll be clave bound! Cheers, Allen Epps Excuse at the ready: "But Hon I have to go to the clave, you expected me to be on det for two weeks anyway" Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

My OE screen says the post was at 8:40 pm.  Lower right hand clock is dead on.  Could it be the posting news server in another time zone?  I’ve noticed this with other posters.

Your posts are always off (in time anyway<g) for me too, the one I am replying to now says it was posted at 11:38am, but it’s only 8:37am here (EDT). FWIW. — Charlie…

Response:

Allen, As Executive Director of a Military History Museum I can appreciate your quandry.  One of our Board Members works with the Joint Chiefs.  Perhaps I can arrange to have the island moved off the coast of Virginia and you can fly out of NAS.  There is a small airfield in Spotsylvania County, Shannon Field.  You can get a Harrier in there without any problem.  Also a large grassy field at the campground store.  A SeaKing will fit nicely. — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wayne, Please stop! Your continued posting of how good the fishing is going to be at the Clave makes me want to drop my orders to PR in the shredder.  Aren’t you aware of the consequences? Why without this trip the people of Vieques Island will have to go without the sound of freedom over their heads or ordnance impacting the dirt at all hours of the night. I guess I can always hope for a hurricane to head that way to cancel the whole thing then I’ll be clave bound! Cheers, Allen Epps Excuse at the ready: "But Hon I have to go to the clave, you expected me to be on det for two weeks anyway" Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

Wayne, The offer is certainly much appreciated. In fact we have to hop through NAS Oceana fuel pits on the way to Key West then to Roosey. The USNA wants a fly-by for the plebes taking their oath and I just know they’ll hold us at low alt for a while resulting in not enough fuel to one leg it to Key Weird. If we get to PR and the island has moved. I’ll immediatly re-file back to Norfolk and look for it off the coast! Of course, near VA rum won’t be 2.95 a gallon so sacrifies will have to be made by the clavsters if I show up. Cheers, Allen Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

Don’t want him anywhere near me with that noisy old EA-6b.  I don’t even want to think about what those trons spittin’ out of his antenna would do to a highly conductive graphite rod.  Then again, he does have a couple of munitions available that would make getting that fish out of the heavy sunken brush a bit easier.      Frank Reid Before you buy.

Response:

Wayne, Please stop! Your continued posting of how good the fishing is going to be at the Clave makes me want to drop my orders to PR in the shredder.  Aren’t you aware of the consequences? Why without this trip the people of Vieques Island will have to go without the sound of freedom over their heads or ordnance impacting the dirt at all hours of the night. I guess I can always hope for a hurricane to head that way to cancel the whole thing then I’ll be clave bound! Cheers, Allen Epps Excuse at the ready: "But Hon I have to go to the clave, you expected me to be on det for two weeks anyway" Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

Dianna and I tripped down to the Rappahannock today and visited the campground.  Pictures will be available tomorrow sometime.  I talked with one of the campground owners and with a friend who guides the Rappahannock. Seems a 5 lb. smallie came from the rapids just above the campground, caught by one of the happy campers.  The guide was fishing this past week and had a little 10 inch smallie on.  Before he could strip it in a BIG smallie rose from the bottom of the pool and nailed it!  SIX POUNDS!!!  After a fine day of fishing we were on the way off the river this afternoon.  I handed my wife my 6 wt. with the lead-eyed hellgrammite and I picked up the Connor 4 wt. with the White Miller dry.  I tried a couple of fish then hit a Damsel fly in mid-cast with the Miller.  The Damsel fluttered to the water about 4 feet from me and twitched a couple of times, WHAM!!  The bass nearly caused an enviromental castrophe.  I dropped the Miller just beyond the splash and gave a couple of twitches, WHAM!!! again.  This time with hook set.  Nice little smallie. #12 White Millers with an occasional twitch and black Murray’s Lead-eyed Hellgrammite workrd wonders today.  Saw Millers all day and a hatch underway just after noon for about 30 minutes.  The top of the river got real busy. A good time was had by all. — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

Response:

[snipped] For crying out loud, Wayne, what’s it going to take to get you to correctly set your computer’s clock? Or do I need to contact your ISP? Seriously, your post (the one I’m responding to) shows up on my server as having been sent at 11:40pm. I’m responding at 10:05pm, so I’m guessing somewhere between your PC and mine there’s a machine that is off by 2 hours. Your posts have been that way for several months. What gives? –Steve (and my those smallies do sound fun)

Response:

simple……tiime flies when yur having fun….john – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [snipped] For crying out loud, Wayne, what’s it going to take to get you to correctly set your computer’s clock? Or do I need to contact your ISP? Seriously, your post (the one I’m responding to) shows up on my server as having been sent at 11:40pm. I’m responding at 10:05pm, so I’m guessing somewhere between your PC and mine there’s a machine that is off by 2 hours. Your posts have been that way for several months. What gives? –Steve (and my those smallies do sound fun)

Response:

Really getting fixated on this one…..anxious to try out some of my woolies in other waters…..got a link for white miller flies?…..john – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dianna and I tripped down to the Rappahannock today and visited the campground.  Pictures will be available tomorrow sometime.  I talked with one of the campground owners and with a friend who guides the Rappahannock. Seems a 5 lb. smallie came from the rapids just above the campground, caught by one of the happy campers.  The guide was fishing this past week and had a little 10 inch smallie on.  Before he could strip it in a BIG smallie rose from the bottom of the pool and nailed it!  SIX POUNDS!!!  After a fine day of fishing we were on the way off the river this afternoon.  I handed my wife my 6 wt. with the lead-eyed hellgrammite and I picked up the Connor 4 wt. with the White Miller dry.  I tried a couple of fish then hit a Damsel fly in mid-cast with the Miller.  The Damsel fluttered to the water about 4 feet from me and twitched a couple of times, WHAM!!  The bass nearly caused an enviromental castrophe.  I dropped the Miller just beyond the splash and gave a couple of twitches, WHAM!!! again.  This time with hook set.  Nice little smallie. #12 White Millers with an occasional twitch and black Murray’s Lead-eyed Hellgrammite workrd wonders today.  Saw Millers all day and a hatch underway just after noon for about 30 minutes.  The top of the river got real busy. A good time was had by all. — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

Response:

Question:

Any suggestions for places to combine backpacking and fishing in Texas, Okla. or Arkansas?  I never learned to fly-fish, but I’ll fish rivers, streams, lakes or ponds.

Backpacking and fishing rarely really go together in Texas.   On the other hand though, canoe/kayaking and fishing are a pretty decent fit in Texas. If you are dedicated to backpack fishing, Arkansas is probably a better experience. The Texas coastline could be largely backpacked, but I doubt its the type of experience you want. You could backpack in Big Bend and fish the Rio Grande, but the Rio Grande is not exactly the most pristine river in the world…. But grab a canoe or kayak and the possibilities for fishing and camping become nearly limitless. .

Response:

I recently read your request on where to hike fish camp in ok,ar,tx you might try Beavers bend state park in the S.E. coner of OK it has trails that take up to several days to complete the country is very beautiful this time of year it is in the ouichata national forest and is a favorite af my wife and mine the hiking trail goes all the way around the lake and it is a very large lake lots af trees and mountains – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any suggestions for places to combine backpacking and fishing in Texas, Okla. or Arkansas?  I never learned to fly-fish, but I’ll fish rivers, streams, lakes or ponds. Before you buy.

Response:

Any suggestions for places to combine backpacking and fishing in Texas, Okla. or Arkansas?  I never learned to fly-fish, but I’ll fish rivers, streams, lakes or ponds. Before you buy.

Response:

Question:

Well, Willi…..

This ROFF rant was well worth the price of admission if only to hear T-Bones lounge lizard act. — Ken Fortenberry- kicks shit out of little old lady litterers Illini 1 – Tar Heels 0

Response:

Nope… didn’t rant or rave or attack anyone personally, just attacked the bunch of "cyberbullies" that think everyone else wants to listen to their shit! Besides, I gave everyone a technique as to how they can avoid it…so, no harm- no foul- case in point….I deleted Fornicationberry’s response unread =) Larry #:)#

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I’m sure he’s distressed.<

Actually, I bet he’s pleased that someone actually relates the concept of fornication with his name.  <g

Response:

It is true that I have never seen him engaged in sexual congress, but

he always seemed less obsessed with the concept than some of the others around at the time<g.< Still water runs deep.  <g

Response:

Geeeeze.   I go fishing for a few days, come home and Fortenberry has his own thread and there is a thread about "off topic posts". Didn’t we go down these roads before?  And before that too? What’s left — another C&R/C&K thread, or maybe one about the effin’ Indians stealing from us white folk!  I betcha some dumb sumbitch is gonna ask what the best floatant is! Darwinnian my ass!  Dalwhinnie, maybe.  <g Louie (who is packin’ goin’ fishin’) Dave LaCourse

Response:

Larry,    The filter is a great tool.  There is only one person on this group who I have filtered out all of his posts, but there are many threads where people start in saying things that should be taken to e-mail.  When I see there will be nothing more of value on a thread I filter it.. Ernie Harrison See Ernie’s Fly-Fishing Stuff:   http://home.pacbell.net/ernie2 Well, Willi….. <snip Personally, I think anytime someone wants to rant-n-rave, it should be taken to private quarters and left out of the public arena, but the vast majority of these chest thumping testosterone laden hairy palmed individuals think that it’s quite important to make a public display of their idiocy and then look for others to come to their aid, grunting "UnNNNHHH- Me TOO….

<snip Larry #:)# – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Larry While not agreeing completely with your characterization, I will at least own a part of it and back off on some of these threads which frankly get my dander up. Of late there have been too many in that set. To the extent that Ive not seen the humor in a selective charactiture of the US, and my reaction is seen as hatred, I apologize to Christian, Mike and Herman. I will note that the spirit of the Revolutionary Army singing Yankee Doodle Dandy at Yorktown was reportedly very high and even our Polish, German, Irish and French officers joined in. Humor gentleman, humor. As to the Native American thread, which relates directly to the laws and history of the US, I am honestly appalled at the degree of ignorance expressed on ROFF for which I find no excuse in a group of my countryman with such nominally high educational levels. Racial considerations have been an element in our history from the start. Im no saint in this regard. What I find particularly chilling is the "reasonableness" of expression of this ignorance by nominally good men. I also note that the Southerners among us and some of those from the older parts of the US seem in general a bit more perceptive of where such ignorance leads. So maybe the lessons of our history are not lost. In any case Im taking a time out from the more controversial threads, and going to stick to FFing for a bit. Hope that helps. Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Nope… didn’t rant or rave or attack anyone personally, just attacked the bunch of "cyberbullies" that think everyone else wants to listen to their shit! Besides, I gave everyone a technique as to how they can avoid it…so, no harm- no foul- case in point….I deleted Fornicationberry’s response unread =) Larry #:)#

Response:

Nope… didn’t rant or rave or attack anyone personally, … ….I deleted Fornicationberry’s response unread =)

Well, I’ll take at face value your assertion that you didn’t attack anyone personally and conclude from your last line that you were just flexing your intellectual muscle. That’s so cute, and such a BIG word too, I sure am proud of you sweetheart. You keep working real hard and one of these days you’ll get out of fifth grade and be able to play with the big boys too. — Ken Fortenberry Illini 2 – Tar Heels 0

Response:

As to the Native American thread, which relates directly to the laws and history of the US, I am honestly appalled at the degree of ignorance expressed on ROFF for which I find no excuse in a group of my countryman with such nominally high educational levels. Racial considerations have been an element in our history from the start. Im no saint in this regard. What I find particularly chilling is the "reasonableness" of expression of this ignorance by nominally good men.

Well said. I too grow weary. I said in another thread that there were two almost equally distasteful options, ignore racist posts or set to with the racists. As it turns out most of the racists are good guys that just don’t know any better. I’ve drawn my line in the sand. Everyone here should know by now where I stand. This brouhaha has tipped the scale of "almost equally distasteful" back to where I think it better to ignore racist posts. I don’t know what posessed me to think it better to tilt at the other side of the scale other than frustration and an inflated sense of my own poor powers of persuasion. I do appreciate all the supportive email and the kind words from "lurkers" and Europeans alike. And a quick note to Harry Mason, we are in 100% agreement. Throwing out the race card IS an attempt to end the discussion. Sure as hell don’t work around here though. Native Americans are NOT the problem, but they sure make convenient scapegoats. — Ken Fortenberry Illini 2 – Tar Heels 0

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As to the Native American thread, which relates directly to the laws and history of the US, I am honestly appalled at the degree of ignorance expressed on ROFF for which I find no excuse in a group of my countryman with such nominally high educational levels. Racial considerations have been an element in our history from the start. Im no saint in this regard. What I find particularly chilling is the "reasonableness" of expression of this ignorance by nominally good men. Well said. I too grow weary. I said in another thread that there were two almost equally distasteful options, ignore racist posts or set to with the racists. As it turns out most of the racists are good guys that just don’t know any better. I’ve drawn my line in the sand. Everyone here should know by now where I stand. This brouhaha has tipped the scale of "almost equally distasteful" back to where I think it better to ignore racist posts. I don’t know what posessed me to think it better to tilt at the other side of the scale other than frustration and an inflated sense of my own poor powers of persuasion. I do appreciate all the supportive email and the kind words from "lurkers" and Europeans alike. And a quick note to Harry Mason, we are in 100% agreement. Throwing out the race card IS an attempt to end the discussion. Sure as hell don’t work around here though. Native Americans are NOT the problem, but they sure make convenient scapegoats. — Ken Fortenberry Illini 2 – Tar Heels 0

Americans ARE the problem and killers of the extraordinary amount of America’s Wildlife they are plundering. What part of this is racist and what part of this problem don’t you understand Ken? This IS A REALITY CHECK. You understand – Check this line. You Don’t Understand – Check this line. — Mr. G.   http://www.gink.com/html  Fly Fisherman’s Chat Site   "Flyfisherman’s Camp Fires Burning" http://www.gink.com http://www.rodbuilding.com http://www.xink.com

Question:

I’ll be in the Denver area next weekend and have 1 day free for some fly fishing.  Any suggestions on where to go this time of year? Don

Hi Don, Denver sits on the banks of Lake Norman. It’s a lake full of specs, bass, catfish, and panfish. The Catawba river flows into it and out of it through a dam. It’s a great place to fish and relax here in the NC piedmont. It does get hot as hell in the summer though. Ooops, oh, that Denver……sorry, Waldo…to damn early in the am.

Response:

I’ll be in the Denver area next weekend and have 1 day free for some fly fishing.  Any suggestions on where to go this time of year? Don

Response:

Question:

Going there soon. Any one have any good info to share? I’d appreciate it!!! Thanks

Response:

Going there soon. Any one have any good info to share? I’d appreciate it!!! Thanks

a very nice spot, but not the greatest fishing. at least for me. so…..it might be good and i suck??  last i was there the rainbows were very small. caught a few casting small mepps spinners from shore and from the boat. some guys swear by the old "ford fender" gang troll and a wedding band spinner with a worm. no luck myself, but saw a couple taken. i coudn’t raise a thing with the fly rod. others that tried had the same results. this was last year so things may have picked up a bit. no matter what, it’s a very pretty spot to go. by the way…if you do have good fishing, please post on what was working! thanks,b.

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Ben, You must have had bad luck! I’ve been on the lake four times, three times for stays of 5 days or more. For me, the fishing was always fantastic!!!  This is a canoe only lake, with a 2.5 km portage in.  For this reason, there is less fishing pressure on Murtle than you would find on lakes with easy car access.  I’ve pulled trout out of the lake up to five lbs with 2-3 lbs being the average.  I’ve fished it standing in the water casting in shallows, float tubing and trolling from the canoe and never been skunked.  On one trip I spoke with a park rangers who said some slob had pulled out a 14 pounder out of the north arm of the lake! The lake has two arms: north and west.  I’ve never been up the north arm but I understand that it has much less traffic than the west but the weather isn’t quite as good as it is on the west arm.  The west arm has better camping spots and BETTER FISHING.  There is a river that flows into the west arm (the name escapes me now) that is a used by the kokanee in the late summer to spawn.  I’ve fished the outlet of the river and had some of the best fishing days of my life. On one trip in early  September, I caught three fish in four casts.  All of them were 12-16 inches. The west arm empties into the Murtle River which has some great dry fly fishing all along it.  Though the further down the river you go from the lake the smaller the fish get. This lake is a fishing heaven that has some fantastic dry fly action if your in the right place at the right time.  My best luck has been with black leeches, big dragon fly nymphs and Doc Spratleys.  Take lots of these if your a fly fisherman.  For drys take lots of Adams, dark dun Elk Wing Caddis and a variety of other western drys. Good Luck, Dave. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Going there soon. Any one have any good info to share? I’d appreciate it!!! Thanks a very nice spot, but not the greatest fishing. at least for me. so…..it might be good and i suck??  last i was there the rainbows were very small. caught a few casting small mepps spinners from shore and from the boat. some guys swear by the old "ford fender" gang troll and a wedding band spinner with a worm. no luck myself, but saw a couple taken. i coudn’t raise a thing with the fly rod. others that tried had the same results. this was last year so things may have picked up a bit. no matter what, it’s a very pretty spot to go. by the way…if you do have good fishing, please post on what was working! thanks,b.

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Question:

Great responses from all

Question:

In California we have lots of dragon & damsel flies in our warm water ponds. We use some pretty fancy looking dragon fly nymphs, but I think a wooly bugger tied the size and color of you bugs will work as well.

[snip] Quite so: no need to go nuts with long-winded/tediously overdone dragon nymph patterns. If you’ve ever actually seen a dragon nymph move out, you know how damn fast those critters are, and how little time a trout/bass/whatever has to spot/target/nail ‘em. Wooly Buggers tied in general size/color with good tail action work just fine on the Right Coast, and a couple of strands of pearl flashabou seems to get the fish’s attention from greater distances as well… Cheers! /dave <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< < Digital Equipment Corp.       Alpha Server Engineering < <     "What doesn’t kill you…will hurt like heck!"     < <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In California we have lots of dragon & damsel flies in our warm water ponds. We use some pretty fancy looking dragon fly nymphs, but I think a wooly bugger tied the size and color of you bugs will work as well. [snip] Quite so: no need to go nuts with long-winded/tediously overdone dragon nymph patterns. If you’ve ever actually seen a dragon nymph move out, you know how damn fast those critters are, and how little time a trout/bass/whatever has to spot/target/nail ‘em. Wooly Buggers tied in general size/color with good tail action work just fine on the Right Coast, and a couple of strands of pearl flashabou seems to get the fish’s attention from greater distances as well… Cheers! /dave

I may be fooling myself, but I like to add the black plastic eyes.  Some of the bugs have very prominent eyes, and I feel like these work a scootch better.  And if nothing else, they make my wife squeal more when I show her the fly. My three year old loves ‘em, too. I don’t go for any other anatomical features.  A sparse, fat, wooly bugger with eyes works great.

Response:

I fish a local pond, which happens to be choked with weeds and cattails, for bass and blugill.  I have noticed a large population of both dragonflys and damselflys.  I would think the fish must eat a lot of the flies larvae.  So, what are the best patterns for these critters.   BTW, thanks for answering my other questions.  Taking up flyfishing is giving me lots of them, but isn’t that the best part of fishing? Nicolo

Response:

In South Africa a large proportion of our fishing is for stillwater trout. We tend to have a large concentration of dragon/damsel flies in our waters over here. I tend to imitate the damselflies by using a small Wooly Bugger(size 12-14) or Filoplume damsel. For a dragonfly I either use a Hoverdragon or a pattern that I learnt from our flytying club(NFDS). The body/thorax is made up of maribou and the eyes are tuff chenile. If you need the fly tying patterns just give a shout! Paul

Response:

Some Damselfly and Dragonfly patterns used for trout here in B.C. include: Damselfly: ‘52 Buick large Halfback Dragonfly: Bottomwalker Gomphus Doc Spratley B. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I fish a local pond, which happens to be choked with weeds and cattails, for bass and blugill.  I have noticed a large population of both dragonflys and damselflys.  I would think the fish must eat a lot of the flies larvae.  So, what are the best patterns for these critters.   BTW, thanks for answering my other questions.  Taking up flyfishing is giving me lots of them, but isn’t that the best part of fishing? Nicolo

Response:

I fish a local pond, which happens to be choked with weeds and cattails, for bass and blugill.  I have noticed a large population of both dragonflys and damselflys.  I would think the fish must eat a lot of the flies larvae.  So, what are the best patterns for these critters.  

Hi Nicolo, In California we have lots of dragon & damsel flies in our warm water ponds.  We use some pretty fancy looking dragon fly nymphs, but I think a wooly bugger tied the size and color of you bugs will work as well. Trout feeding on emerging damsels requires matching their size, color and action.  I think that bass and panfish are a little less selective.  We also use small/medium poppers for warm water fish.  I like all black poppers and yellow or frog colored, also. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA

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Question:

Does anyone go fly fishing in Orance County at any of the local beaches?   (*particularly Huntington Beach)  I’d much rather drive 10 minutes to the beach rather than an hour to the nearest fresh water for trout. Jae

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The best salt water fly fishing nearest you, in my opinion, would be in Redondo Beach; King Harbour. Go to Daves Rocky Point at 6:30 am, rent a skiff ($40 for half day) and fish your brains out for Bonita in the harbour. Be sure to have a reel with a drag system and at least an 8-9 rod. Sinking line is considered best, but I have outfished my buddies with a floating line. A 10 lb tippet will do and the Bonita is considered the "Jack Dempsey" of the tuna family. Bonita on the fly is an amazing thing!! Up in the Ventura Co., there is also some great salt water fly fishing from shore. Be sure to have a line tray! the Spy on the Fly

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