Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing » Folstaff Wading Staffs: Who Is the Mfg. ?
I now wade the same water *without* the scarey vibrations.
I get the vibrations even with my Folstaf. That tells me I better not walk into that water. Mu
Hello: Who is the manufacturer of Folstaff wading staffs? Bob
Hello: Who is the manufacturer of Folstaff wading staffs?
Fly-Tyer
Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Flyfishing » Llama Packing???? anyone know about Llamas?
I’ve been told that the current up-and-coming pack animal is the lowly goat. I’m not kidding. I understand that the forest service uses them as pack animals in Idaho. They are very sure footed and can eat anything. They gotta be cheap, and you can eat them in a pinch or when you’re done with them. Dale Lindsley – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve got a really screwed up knee and backpacking is getting very difficult. I’ve seen various pack animals on trails and I’m wondering about Llamas… what do they cost, what kind of care do they require, and what amount of pasture/property do they need? Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! Jim in Oregon The road goes ever, ever on…..
I’ve been told that the current up-and-coming pack animal is the lowly goat. I’m not kidding. I understand that the forest service uses them as pack animals in Idaho. They are very sure footed and can eat anything. They gotta be cheap, and you can eat them in a pinch or when you’re done with them.
That was in 1995 in the Sawtooth NRA. Might have been tried other places as well. Didn’t work out and when I was back this summer, the goats were history. Basically, they don’t do well when the person changes from trip to trip. They take well to one owner and that’s pretty much it. Not a good behavior pattern for a stock animal. That was pretty much the behavior they had when my folks raised goats. It always took some time before they could deal with changes in owners and routine. The habit of eating anything was detrimental as well since they kept eating things which poisoned them. They are sure footed, we had to put the corner braces on the fences on the outside, othewise they’d walk up the brace and be gone over the fence. Usually not far, we’d find them in the rhodendron – flat out with blue protruding tongue – take ‘em to the vet for the antidote. They did make good bar-b-que though. Meat was a bit tough but I’ve never seen any that a pressure cooker couldn’t soften. Linux. Isn’t he is the character that drags the blanket around all the time?
That is a training issue I take mine up to the snow every spring. They carry the X country skis up. The group skis down and one person leads the llamas back down. Como Say Llamas www.llamapacker.com
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jim- Funny you should mention Llamas, especially in Oregon. I was up on North Sister this weekend with an extremely experienced climbing friend. Anyway, he told me that one time, forget how long ago, he was up there and ran into a group of folks that had rented some Llamas for the weekend for just your purpose. The intent was to take them into Camp Lake by South Sister. Anyway, they got a ways up the trail and the Llamas absolutely REFUSED to cross snow. They tried and tried and tried, and couldn’t get them to cross snow. They waited a day and tried again. Nope. Not happening. If any of your trips involve snow, I’d check into this. Maybe it was just a training issue, maybe not. As far as I know, Llamas come from snow country but maybe if they’ve never seen it, they don’t want nothin’ to do with it. — Matt Jarvis addressing. I’ve got a really screwed up knee and backpacking is getting very difficult. I’ve seen various pack animals on trails and I’m wondering about Llamas… what do they cost, what kind of care do they require, and what amount of pasture/property do they need? Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! Jim in Oregon The road goes ever, ever on…..
And some won’t cross large puddles if they can’t see the bottom. Obviously you want a trained one. Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jim- …. Anyway, they got a ways up the trail and the Llamas absolutely REFUSED to cross snow. They tried and tried and tried, and couldn’t get them to cross snow…..
I just rented 2 llamas that hiked from Yosemite to Tahoe 153 miles. they crossed every obstical imaginable. They carried 90#s each and ranged from 8 to 12 miles a day with 1 lay over day. Como Say Llamas www.llamapacker.com
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – And some won’t cross large puddles if they can’t see the bottom. Obviously you want a trained one. Mike Jim- …. Anyway, they got a ways up the trail and the Llamas absolutely REFUSED to cross snow. They tried and tried and tried, and couldn’t get them to cross snow…..
Jim- Funny you should mention Llamas, especially in Oregon. I was up on North Sister this weekend with an extremely experienced climbing friend. Anyway, he told me that one time, forget how long ago, he was up there and ran into a group of folks that had rented some Llamas for the weekend for just your purpose. The intent was to take them into Camp Lake by South Sister. Anyway, they got a ways up the trail and the Llamas absolutely REFUSED to cross snow. They tried and tried and tried, and couldn’t get them to cross snow. They waited a day and tried again. Nope. Not happening. If any of your trips involve snow, I’d check into this. Maybe it was just a training issue, maybe not. As far as I know, Llamas come from snow country but maybe if they’ve never seen it, they don’t want nothin’ to do with it. — Matt Jarvis addressing. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve got a really screwed up knee and backpacking is getting very difficult. I’ve seen various pack animals on trails and I’m wondering about Llamas… what do they cost, what kind of care do they require, and what amount of pasture/property do they need? Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! Jim in Oregon The road goes ever, ever on…..
Llamas are great on the trail, but you need special expertise to handle them. They will eat anything that grows along side the trail. Including plants that will kill them. The Mt. LeConte Lodge in the Great Smoky Mountains National Park is stocked via Llamas. The handlers take them up the same trail three times a week, and know all the danger areas by heart. Earlier this spring, a slide made their normal route up the Trillium Gap trail impassable, so they re-routed up Bullhead. One llama keeled over dead right on the trail, and two others died back at the ranch. They believe it was from rhoderdendron poisoning. Since then, they started using modified muzzels to prevent re-occurance. Also, even though they are easier on the trails than horses, many National Parks do not recognize this fact. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve got a really screwed up knee and backpacking is getting very difficult. I’ve seen various pack animals on trails and I’m wondering about Llamas… what do they cost, what kind of care do they require, and what amount of pasture/property do they need? Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! Jim in Oregon The road goes ever, ever on…..
You might check into goats. Keith – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve got a really screwed up knee and backpacking is getting very difficult. I’ve seen various pack animals on trails and I’m wondering about Llamas… what do they cost, what kind of care do they require, and what amount of pasture/property do they need? Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! Jim in Oregon The road goes ever, ever on…..
You might check into goats. Keith
FWIW.. I was reading a book about flyfishing mountain lakes by a well-known (to fishermen, at least) author. There was an entire chapter about pack animals. The author said goats were the best, horses worst, and llamas and all others in between. — Yellowstone TRs: http://www.cis.ksu.edu/~dha5446/hiking/yellowstone/
In defence of the llama….They only spit at each other over food or females…unless poorly trained and abused they never spit at people. In the back country they do less damage than a pair of hiking boots, due to their padded feet.They can be turned loose when at camp and do about the same damage as a deer. Como Say Llamas Llama packing and llama rentals www.llamapacker.com
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Know they spit when annoyed so duck a lot.One golf course uses them as caddies for the golf bags.Quite a sight-men wearing lime green pants and mauve and chartreuse shirts following a llama that poops all over the place-can’t quite housetrain them. * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!
Know they spit when annoyed so duck a lot.One golf course uses them as caddies for the golf bags.Quite a sight-men wearing lime green pants and mauve and chartreuse shirts following a llama that poops all over the place-can’t quite housetrain them. * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!
I’ve got a really screwed up knee and backpacking is getting very difficult. I’ve seen various pack animals on trails and I’m wondering about Llamas… what do they cost, what kind of care do they require, and what amount of pasture/property do they need? Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! Jim in Oregon The road goes ever, ever on…..
I operate a llama packing business in CA, I also rent them. You might check out my site listed below I have some info about them. You need at least 2 llamas, as they are herd animals. If you have an acre that is more than enough. If you are just getting started I would recommend 1 to be trained…..This means trained on the trail, at least a season or a couple hundred miles of loaded trail experience. It will make your experience much more enjoyable as the trained llama will train the green one for you. I do not sell them, but I do know where they are (most of the time). llamas for packing should be tall and narrow, but most important is they have to have the right attitude. I would be more than happy to talk in detail about what to look for. The prices average $500 for an untrained ( or very little) to $1500 for a fully trained llama. As with a backpack and hiking boots, the saddle is the most important part, I recommend the Sopris saddle ( about $600) ouch…worth every penny. David Drewry Como Say Llamas www.llamapacker.com 916 923 0408
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve got a really screwed up knee and backpacking is getting very difficult. I’ve seen various pack animals on trails and I’m wondering about Llamas… what do they cost, what kind of care do they require, and what amount of pasture/property do they need? Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! Jim in Oregon The road goes ever, ever on…..
Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing » The Coming of Floyd….
shouldn’t be too rough less the st.johns rises. Walt if you are reading this, wish you were here. Our thoughts will be with you John… Big Dale
john: we are more than 200 miles inland, and hugo (1989) damn near destroyed our old home place. please consider getting the hell out of there. wayno
john: we are more than 200 miles inland, and hugo (1989) damn near destroyed our old home place. please consider getting the hell out of there. wayno
Wayno and John, My pal Phil just pointed me in the direction of this thread, and I sincerely hope that Floyd does you no harm. The pictures we received showed Floyd as large as Florida – frightening! Hope you all keep well. — Bill http://www.graigroad.demon.co.uk
The pictures we received showed Floyd as large as Florida – frightening!
I’d heard it was the size of Texas which, as you probably know, is bigger than planet earth<g. — Charlie…
The pictures we received showed Floyd as large as Florida – frightening! I’d heard it was the size of Texas which, as you probably know, is bigger than planet earth<g.
Joking aside, John and wayno are worryingly quiet… — Phil Jones
Joking aside, John and wayno are worryingly quiet…
Floyd pretty much missed John, nothing could hurt Wayno short of a disaster at the Balvenie distillery (Greensboro is well inland), we’ve heard from Jeff under curfew, I’m wondering about Indian Joe in Wilmington. Anybody heard ? — Ken Fortenberry Illini 2 – Tar Heels 1
Joking aside, John and wayno are worryingly quiet…
True, and I hope for the best. I just heard from a friend in Savannah who said she drove all the way to Tennessee to find a room but there was no damage when she got back. Pretty scary. — Charlie…
Excuse me… I thought Balvenie was a single malt, a proper scotch… Are you saying that it’s fabricated in Greensboro..?
LOL ! No sir, I would never insult a proper single malt. I am merely saying that a healthy percentage of the world’s Balvenie production is CONSUMED in Greensboro, North Carolina. — Ken Fortenberry Illini 2 – Tar Heels 1
nothing could hurt Wayno short of a disaster at the Balvenie distillery (Greensboro is well inland)
Excuse me… I thought Balvenie was a single malt, a proper scotch… Are you saying that it’s fabricated in Greensboro..? — Phil Jones
Floyd, now a tropical storm, blew through Maine last night on it’s way to the Maratimes. Heavy rains, some winds, nothing serious really, though the power did go out. I woke up about 2 am when the eye passed over, the silence was deafening. I hope eveyone in it’s path came through safely and you fishing is good for the rest of the year. I’m off to the West Branch of the Penobscot this weekend for a week of salmon fishing. Flyfish
Floyd, now a tropical storm, blew through Maine last night on it’s way to the Maratimes. Heavy rains, some winds, nothing serious really, though the power did go out. I woke up about 2 am when the eye passed over, the silence was deafening. I hope eveyone in it’s path came through safely and you fishing is good for the rest of the year.
We had an entertaining afternoon here as well, Dave. Plenty of wind though no damage in my area (central MA) and a boatload of rain. Not much more than an inconvenience, really, though I suspect the coastal denizens had a tougher go of it. I’m off to the West Branch of the Penobscot this weekend for a week of salmon fishing.
Good luck to ya! Hope the high water gets the fish moving your way. /daytripper
floyd’s downpour on eastern nc has really whipped our ass. we had 15 inches of rain in about 24 hours. many of the towns east of raleigh along rivers and creeks are suffering substantial flooding and water damage. Greenville has been cut off in all directions by washed out and flooded roads in and around the area. The Tar River is rising and expected to crest at about 26 feet above normal over the next 2 days. Some folks are being evacuated from the roofs of their homes, others are stranded. The sole remaining power substation serving the city and county (app. 55,000 folks) is in jeopardy of being shut down by the flooding, and if it goes officials fear it will be several days before the current is reestablished. jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Floyd, now a tropical storm, blew through Maine last night on it’s way to the Maratimes. Heavy rains, some winds, nothing serious really, though the power did go out. I woke up about 2 am when the eye passed over, the silence was deafening. I hope eveyone in it’s path came through safely and you fishing is good for the rest of the year. I’m off to the West Branch of the Penobscot this weekend for a week of salmon fishing. Flyfish
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Last report I saw rated Floyd’s force at 155mph, one mph under classification as a Force 5 hurricane. I understand it is expected to come aground somewhere late tomorrow. My sincere best wishes to those of you, you families and your businesses in the wake of this pending monster. I was in Charleston in 1992 4 days after Andrew hit and saw the devastation this type of a storm can do and I hope you are all prepared and safe. Larry Medina Thanks, the daughter and two grandkids will probably go to a shelter. I’v got two dogs and two cats which we’ve considered loading in the camper and heading to higher ground but I think I’ll just sit tight with them and weather it out. My wife will make up her mind when the time comes but shes a fiesty ol broad and will probably stay too. I checked the generator and it fired right off so we’ll have power for the pump and icebox. We are inland a bit, bout 50 miles from the cape so shouldn’t be too rough less the st.johns rises. Walt if you are reading this, wish you were here. John Popp in Sanford Fl. John, Thanks for the invite, but unfortunately I won’t be able to make it down for this monster. Hang in there bud and do me a favor, if that thing turns inland get the hell out of there. I’ve been through a few to many of those bastards…. From the looks of things, it looks like it’s gonna ride up along the coast and head our way….but don’t trust that river…it can get real big and nasty. Tight windows my friend, Walt — Ezflyfish.com http://www.ezflyfish.com BRBG http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112 Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001
If anybody has watched the news Fl. was treated kindly by floyd. We’re just fine. been cleaning up some limbs and such, nothing big. We did get some high winds(bout 40mph) but nothing spectacular and only 3" of rain. I’ve been watching the news and it seems Fl.’s good fortune was bad fortune for those in the northern climes. Luckily by the time it got there it had weakened significatly. With the advantage of 20/20 hindsighte, it seems some news casters had derogatory statements about those who chose to leave. This was a terribly big and vicious storm as it churned up and just off shore and I hope those statements will not influence those of lesser expierience should the choice again need be made. John Popp in Sanford Fl.
With the advantage of 20/20 hindsighte, it seems some news casters had derogatory statements about those who chose to leave. This was a terribly big and vicious storm as it churned up and just off shore and I hope those statements will not influence those of lesser expierience should the choice again need be made.
Good advice as usual John. Glad you made it through OK, I have a friend that lives near Savannah who evacuated and, though there was no damage when she got back, I hope she’d leave again under the same conditions. I’ve been in (literally) a couple of tornadoes, but hurricanes scare me bad. — Charlie…
hurricanes scare me bad. — Charlie…
i talked to pamlico jim this morning, and they are in a hell of a mess in greenville, nc. no power, no stores open, conditions may not improve for days; the tar river hasn’t even crested yet. there is only one road open to the outside world. wayno
… there is only one road open to the outside world. wayno
…and i took it to watauga county this morning!!! jeff
nah…a mere 15 inches or so in greenville, nc, but not a drop at elk creek…very bizarre to drive out of greenville where the river is about 27 feet above flood stage to elk creek – it’s even lower than when you guys were here, and crystal clear. the smallies are beckoning!! jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …and i took it to watauga county this morning!!! Did you get any rain up there? We didn’t get a drop down here. — Charlie…
Last report I saw rated Floyd’s force at 155mph, one mph under classification as a Force 5 hurricane. I understand it is expected to come aground somewhere late tomorrow. My sincere best wishes to those of you, you families and your businesses in the wake of this pending monster. I was in Charleston in 1992 4 days after Andrew hit and saw the devastation this type of a storm can do and I hope you are all prepared and safe. Larry Medina
Last report I saw rated Floyd’s force at 155mph, one mph under classification as a Force 5 hurricane. I understand it is expected to come aground somewhere late tomorrow. My sincere best wishes to those of you, you families and your businesses in the wake of this pending monster. I was in Charleston in 1992 4 days after Andrew hit and saw the devastation this type of a storm can do and I hope you are all prepared and safe. Larry Medina
Thanks, the daughter and two grandkids will probably go to a shelter. I’v got two dogs and two cats which we’ve considered loading in the camper and heading to higher ground but I think I’ll just sit tight with them and weather it out. My wife will make up her mind when the time comes but shes a fiesty ol broad and will probably stay too. I checked the generator and it fired right off so we’ll have power for the pump and icebox. We are inland a bit, bout 50 miles from the cape so shouldn’t be too rough less the st.johns rises. Walt if you are reading this, wish you were here. John Popp in Sanford Fl.
shouldn’t be too rough less the st.johns rises. Walt if you are reading this, wish you were here.
Our thoughts will be with you John… Big Dale
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Last report I saw rated Floyd’s force at 155mph, one mph under classification as a Force 5 hurricane. I understand it is expected to come aground somewhere late tomorrow. My sincere best wishes to those of you, you families and your businesses in the wake of this pending monster. I was in Charleston in 1992 4 days after Andrew hit and saw the devastation this type of a storm can do and I hope you are all prepared and safe. Larry Medina Thanks, the daughter and two grandkids will probably go to a shelter. I’v got two dogs and two cats which we’ve considered loading in the camper and heading to higher ground but I think I’ll just sit tight with them and weather it out. My wife will make up her mind when the time comes but shes a fiesty ol broad and will probably stay too. I checked the generator and it fired right off so we’ll have power for the pump and icebox. We are inland a bit, bout 50 miles from the cape so shouldn’t be too rough less the st.johns rises. Walt if you are reading this, wish you were here. John Popp in Sanford Fl.
John, Thanks for the invite, but unfortunately I won’t be able to make it down for this monster. Hang in there bud and do me a favor, if that thing turns inland get the hell out of there. I’ve been through a few to many of those bastards…. From the looks of things, it looks like it’s gonna ride up along the coast and head our way….but don’t trust that river…it can get real big and nasty. Tight windows my friend, Walt — Ezflyfish.com http://www.ezflyfish.com BRBG http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112 Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001
Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Flyfishing » Colorado info
Hey you locals, Whats happening on the: Uncompagre (water flows at Ridgway, below the dam), Taylor River– above and below the lake, and the Rio Grande around South Fork and Creede. Thank you– Schuh-fly
this site has all those rivers http://www.dnr.state.co.us/water/flow/
Hey you locals, Whats happening on the: Uncompagre (water flows at Ridgway, below the dam), Taylor River– above and below the lake, and the Rio Grande around South Fork and Creede. Thank you– Schuh-fly
Crowds. If you go to Ridgway the swim beach is your best bet this time of the year. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"
—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– If you go to Ridgway the swim beach is your best bet this time of the year.
Not if you go in the middle of the week. A surprising number of people in Montrose County actually work for a living. I should know-I used to be one and I might be again someday, once they finish cleaning up the sheriff’s office. There was also some good looking water on the Engineer Pass Road, but I didn’t stop to fish it. —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—– Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBN5HHA8kBcsCVVLK5AQGqogP8DOh8hCDqWpR4owlxz0fBkqmG6oSxlXoZ Iq023kBmM4FxXuz5G7ILRfjJaIh8b6×613twdJDXXiwmx/13POqSLcu41nzobuGI WM1BDjw9X8IvwvGuFhhuj6vSFaxz8/o6AiHFHSqw84Z0m7qFLEV99C6WUZkitK8q zrMpIz7Ekvs= =mA+k —–END PGP SIGNATURE—– Mike S. Medintz : Website no longer functional. "God invented flyfishing so that old hippies wouldn’t take over the world." -John Gierach
If you go to Ridgway the swim beach is your best bet this time of the year. Not if you go in the middle of the week. A surprising number of people in Montrose County actually work for a living. I should know-I used to be one and I might be again someday, once they finish cleaning up the sheriff’s office.
I just can not believe how crowded the tailwater is though, even in the middle of the week. A lot of folkes come over from GJ to fish it…it’s like the secret got out. Along those lines (letting the secret out) when we had a family camping trip at Ridgway years back a friend who is one of the best guides in the Valley had pretty much disappeared all weekend. The one thing that’s kind of mandatory on these club outings is the saturday evening eat..well Mike missed it by three hours. His wife was pissed off, I’m here to tell ya man. It was a dark night and I sat with my non-pissed off wife on a picnic table slurping a Black Widow Stout we had bought in Ouray. Mike comes up, about 1030, and he can’t talk…he sits down and just sits there all kind of wierd and stuff…he says…you should have seen it…I swear it was 18 pounds…. The beach is the best in the country for a screeming run down the sand hill and lunge for a football timing pass. Your pal, — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -There was also some good looking water on the Engineer Pass Road, but I didn’t stop to fish it. —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—– Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBN5HHA8kBcsCVVLK5AQGqogP8DOh8hCDqWpR4owlxz0fBkqmG6oSxlXoZ Iq023kBmM4FxXuz5G7ILRfjJaIh8b6×613twdJDXXiwmx/13POqSLcu41nzobuGI WM1BDjw9X8IvwvGuFhhuj6vSFaxz8/o6AiHFHSqw84Z0m7qFLEV99C6WUZkitK8q zrMpIz7Ekvs= =mA+k —–END PGP SIGNATURE—– Mike S. Medintz : Website no longer functional. "God invented flyfishing so that old hippies wouldn’t take over the world." -John Gierach
Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Flyfishing » RFD: rec.boats.canoeing
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip If we’re going to split rec.boats.paddling (and rec.boats.canoing *is* a split despite the ambigous naming) the topic with the biggest chuck of traffic should be split off (whitewater) and a misc group created for everything else. For example, my proposal would be: rec.boats.paddling.whitewater rec.boats.paddling.flatwater rec.boats.paddling.misc even though I would still prefer that everything remains as it is, in one newsgroup. John, Creating rec.boats.paddling.whitewater and leaving "everyone else" in R.B.P is probably a more viable solution. 1) It’s less work than creating 3 new groups
Not really. All three groups could be proposed in the same RFD. 2) It’s less exclusive: ww postys would go to R.B.P.W and EVERYTHING else would go to R.B.P
The primary reason that I suggested using .misc is that a strong precedent has been set using this convention and it would likely be backed by Tale (David Lawrence) and other new.group gurus. 3) The volumes would be "balanced" between the groups 4) There wouldn’t be any arguments about where Sea Kayaks, S-O-T’s, etc would go
per my suggestion, anything that was ambiguous would go into r.b.p.misc. r.b.p. would only exist as a hierarchy, but not as a group. This has been done many times before. IMHO, The creation of a WW-only group is the "best" solution to this issue.
I agree, but if a change is going to be made, following conventional usenet naming conventions would be very advantagous as far as getting support form outside the paddling newsgroups. John Fereira Stop Unsolicited Commercial Email – Join CAUCE (http://www.cauce.org) Support HR 1748, the anti-spam bill.
John, Your proposal is making excellent sense. Dan Amerman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip If we’re going to split rec.boats.paddling (and rec.boats.canoing *is* a split despite the ambigous naming) the topic with the biggest chuck of traffic should be split off (whitewater) and a misc group created for everything else. For example, my proposal would be: rec.boats.paddling.whitewater rec.boats.paddling.flatwater rec.boats.paddling.misc even though I would still prefer that everything remains as it is, in one newsgroup. John, Creating rec.boats.paddling.whitewater and leaving "everyone else" in R.B.P is probably a more viable solution. 1) It’s less work than creating 3 new groups Not really. All three groups could be proposed in the same RFD. 2) It’s less exclusive: ww postys would go to R.B.P.W and EVERYTHING else would go to R.B.P The primary reason that I suggested using .misc is that a strong precedent has been set using this convention and it would likely be backed by Tale (David Lawrence) and other new.group gurus. 3) The volumes would be "balanced" between the groups 4) There wouldn’t be any arguments about where Sea Kayaks, S-O-T’s, etc would go per my suggestion, anything that was ambiguous would go into r.b.p.misc. r.b.p. would only exist as a hierarchy, but not as a group. This has been done many times before. IMHO, The creation of a WW-only group is the "best" solution to this issue. I agree, but if a change is going to be made, following conventional usenet naming conventions would be very advantagous as far as getting support form outside the paddling newsgroups. John Fereira Stop Unsolicited Commercial Email – Join CAUCE (http://www.cauce.org) Support HR 1748, the anti-spam bill.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip If we’re going to split rec.boats.paddling (and rec.boats.canoing *is* a split despite the ambigous naming) the topic with the biggest chuck of traffic should be split off (whitewater) and a misc group created for everything else. For example, my proposal would be: rec.boats.paddling.whitewater rec.boats.paddling.flatwater rec.boats.paddling.misc even though I would still prefer that everything remains as it is, in one newsgroup.
John, Creating rec.boats.paddling.whitewater and leaving "everyone else" in R.B.P is probably a more viable solution. 1) It’s less work than creating 3 new groups 2) It’s less exclusive: ww postys would go to R.B.P.W and EVERYTHING else would go to R.B.P 3) The volumes would be "balanced" between the groups 4) There wouldn’t be any arguments about where Sea Kayaks, S-O-T’s, etc would go IMHO, The creation of a WW-only group is the "best" solution to this issue.
If we’re going to split rec.boats.paddling (and rec.boats.canoing *is* a split despite the ambigous naming) the topic with the biggest chuck of traffic should be split off (whitewater) and a misc group created for everything else. For example, my proposal would be: rec.boats.paddling.whitewater rec.boats.paddling.flatwater rec.boats.paddling.misc even though I would still prefer that everything remains as it is, in one newsgroup.
John, thank you for all the assistance you have been, and will continue to be in these discussions. Your long experience with these matters shows through, as does your wisdom. They are appreciated, even if we don’t necessarily agree. — Wes — Posted via Talkway – http://www.talkway.com Surf Usenet at home, on the road, and by email — always at Talkway.
Gregg, I am just curious, how long does it take you to scan the thread titles?
Seconds. "Hooked on Phonics" changed my life. Try it.
I have to disagree with the proposal to split this group, <snip …[I} would miss many of 'characters' crochets by having to go back and forth between NG's. ...
In my experience, the interesting people continue to post to both groups (with some few exceptions.) It is easy enough to filter *for* these interesting people in your less-read group and just get headers for a quick scan of everything else. Mark me down for a rational split; r.b.paddle.whitewater and optionally: r.b.paddle.flatwater r.b.paddle.misc (with r.b.paddle becoming a hierarchy-only) -- --Pete http://www.msen.com/~pwmeek/
- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - John, Creating rec.boats.paddling.whitewater and leaving "everyone else" in R.B.P is probably a more viable solution. 1) It's less work than creating 3 new groups 2) It's less exclusive: ww postys would go to R.B.P.W and EVERYTHING else would go to R.B.P 3) The volumes would be "balanced" between the groups 4) There wouldn't be any arguments about where Sea Kayaks, S-O-T's, etc would go IMHO, The creation of a WW-only group is the "best" solution to this issue.
There is only one problem with this approach: it won't work. Since most of the whitewater folks don't mind the group as it is, they aren't going to put up the effort to "move" to a new group. This is compounded by the folks who post only once every few months; they will continue to post to RBP for some time to come. After this happens, WW people will crosspost to both groups (RBP and RBPW) to make sure that their messages get out to the intended audience. IMO, the only way that you will get some solitude is to create a new group. That way, you will leave the crowd behind (at least for a while). -- Steve Culy Visual Numerics, Inc.
I have to disagree with the proposal to split this group, although I haven't kayaked in years, I do marathon canoe racing, flatwater to III trips and would love to do more sea kayaking. I enjoy this group as it is, with the hot shot rodeo'ers and the skin boaters and would miss many of 'characters' crochets by having to go back and forth between NG's. That is if can get the new NG. I have never felt intimidated about posting marathon stuff here and have gotten some interesting and unexpected replies. Even the blather about religion makes me think of compfire discussions and Jack Daniels. I fear that some of the pressure to split is "sour grapes." Don, an RBP 'bobber'
I encourage all interested parties to brainstorm for a renaming that would CORRECTLY describe the split. An example might be rec.boats.paddle.whitewater rec.boats.paddle.flatwater or flatwater+touring or flatwater+tripping
Would the word "flatwater" exclude canoe trips involving rapids? I hope not. Would the word "touring" or "tripping" exclude flatwater paddlers who aren't into trips? Again, I hope not. Where do tripping rafters fit in? I agree that rec.boats.paddle.whitewater is a good name for paddlers who play in whitewater. Is this likely though? Finally, let me say that I intend no criticism of Bob Solak. I think he's done a great thing by stepping up and actually doing the right thing, an RFD,
Yes. Lloyd Bowles The Mad Canoeist "Keep the open side up!" http://www.fortunecity.com/greenfield/clearstreets/358/index.html
- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - I encourage all interested parties to brainstorm for a renaming that would CORRECTLY describe the split. An example might be rec.boats.paddle.whitewater rec.boats.paddle.flatwater or flatwater+touring or flatwater+tripping Would the word "flatwater" exclude canoe trips involving rapids? I hope not. Would the word "touring" or "tripping" exclude flatwater paddlers who aren't into trips? Again, I hope not. Where do tripping rafters fit in? I agree that rec.boats.paddle.whitewater is a good name for paddlers who play in whitewater. Is this likely though?
Good points. Also, where would surf boats fit in? The point is, is it REALLY taking people THAT long to scan thread titles? Let me time myself doing it right now.... OK, being honest now, it took me 20 seconds. Is that too big a burden to warrant splitting the groups off into discrete major chunks? If there are small special interest segments, the appropriate thing is to run a mailing list to meet those people needs. If you split the group roughly equally, all you are doing is saving, what, 10 of those 20 seconds that it took to scan thread titles? Again, this is just my opinion, but I don't think its worth it, in fact Ii fear it might actually be counter-productive when the inevitable cross postings start to occur leaving even more total thread titles to scan thru. regards, Njall regards, Njall
The point is, is it REALLY taking people THAT long to scan thread titles? Let me time myself doing it right now.... OK, being honest now, it took me 20 seconds.
And how many threads were there for you to scan through? Maybe it isn't a problem for you, but we keep having paddlers say that they are leaving this newsgroup because of the volume of posts that don't interest them. There's a problem somewhere or this wouldn't happen. Is that too big a burden to warrant splitting the groups off into discrete major chunks? If there are small special interest segments, the appropriate thing is to run a mailing list to meet those people needs.
I've been part of a few mailing lists. I find them less convenient & less spontaneous than newsgroups. Also, they aren't easily found by potential new members. If a mailing list is okay with you, why not a new newsgroup? If you split the group roughly equally, all you are doing is saving, what, 10 of those 20 seconds that it took to scan thread titles? Again, this is just my opinion, but I don't think its worth it, in fact Ii fear it might actually be counter-productive when the inevitable cross postings start to occur leaving even more total thread titles to scan thru.
So you go from 20 to 30 or 40 seconds? It will only affect those who want to read both groups, such as myself. It will be much better for people with interest in only one group. Lloyd Bowles The Mad Canoeist "Keep the open side up!" http://www.fortunecity.com/greenfield/clearstreets/358/index.html
I've been part of a few mailing lists. I find them less convenient & less spontaneous than newsgroups. Also, they aren't easily found by potential new members. If a mailing list is okay with you, why not a new newsgroup?
Why? Because a mailing list, by nature, is intended to service a very small, very well defined topic group. A small mailing list would not create the cross-posting problems that 2 roughly equal in size and ILL-DEFINED newsgroups would. If you split the group roughly equally, all you are doing is saving, what, 10 of those 20 seconds that it took to scan thread titles? Again, this is just my opinion, but I don't think its worth it, in fact Ii fear it might actually be counter-productive when the inevitable cross postings start to occur leaving even more total thread titles to scan thru. So you go from 20 to 30 or 40 seconds? It will only affect those who want to read both groups, such as myself. It will be much better for people with interest in only one group.
Lloyd, thanks for acknowledging that due to cross-postings reading 2 newsgroups could take longer than reading the current rbp. One thing you didn't respond to though was my question, "Where would surf boating go?". It's an example of how ill-defined the proposed group is. Also, as a sea kayaker, i guarantee you that new people will think rec.boats.canoe is NOT their newsgroup. Also, i notice that no one metions using kill files to screen title threads. Perhaps the real problem is that people need better newsreader software. If one filtered for about 5 river names, 5 boat brands and about 6 people's names I think about 85% of the whitewater posts could be screened out. 
regards, Njall
- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - I agree that rec.boats.paddle.whitewater is a good name for paddlers who play in whitewater. Is this likely though? Lloyd, what do you think about REC.BOATS.PADDLE.NON-WHITEWATER While I like the idea of the ww folks moving to a group called rec.boats.paddle.whitewater better, I agree that this is highly unlikely. Seems to me that the NON-WW name would accomplish what we need, it would be self descriptive, clear and understandable.
One of the best ways to go about coming up with a name for a new newsgroup proposal is to look at the precedents that have already been set. One of conventions you'll find that is commonly used is the creation of a "misc" group. For example, for basketball discussions there are: rec.sport.basketball.misc rec.sport.basketball.pro rec.sport.basketball.college The "pro" group is for discussion of professional teams, "college" for college teams and players, and "misc" for everything else. The rec.skating hierarchy is set up similarly. It has: rec.sport.skating.misc rec.sport.skating.roller rec.sport.skating.racing rec.sport.skating.ice.recreational rec.sport.skating.ice.figure rec.sport.skating.figure The skating groups are actually similar in structure to how paddling groups could be. Both involve different types of equipment (ice, roller, inline) as well as different styles (racing, figure, recreational) and could use a catch all group (misc) for things that don't fit into a more strictly defined box. The rec.boats.canoeing proposal follows a structure more like the rec.outdoors.fishing fiasco. At one time there wasn't a newsgroup devoted to fishing and alt.fishing was created. A year or so later someone had the bright idea to create a fishing group in the the rec hierarchy and chose rec.outdoors.fishing as it's title. For many years the only group in the rec.outdoors hierarchy were the fishing groups and there was no corresponding rec.indoors group. Groups like rec.climbing, rec.kites, rec.scuba, rec.skydiving; all recreational activites that take place in outdoors never made it into the rec.outdoors hierarchy. A few years ago I wrote and initiated an RFD for rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.tying. Even though the act of tying flies doesn't typically take place in the outdoors I was more or less forced to put it under rec.outdoors.fishing.fly because that's where all of the flyfishing discussion took place. If we're going to split rec.boats.paddling (and rec.boats.canoing *is* a split despite the ambigous naming) the topic with the biggest chuck of traffic should be split off (whitewater) and a misc group created for everything else. For example, my proposal would be: rec.boats.paddling.whitewater rec.boats.paddling.flatwater rec.boats.paddling.misc even though I would still prefer that everything remains as it is, in one newsgroup. John Fereira Stop Unsolicited Commercial Email - Join CAUCE (http://www.cauce.org) Support HR 1748, the anti-spam bill.
So you go from 20 to 30 or 40 seconds? It will only affect those who want to read both groups, such as myself. It will be much better for people with interest in only one group. Lloyd, thanks for acknowledging that due to cross-postings reading 2 newsgroups could take longer than reading the current rbp.
If your newsreader is compliant to standard this is not true. When an article is crossposted to more then one newsgroup it should only appear in the first one that you read if your newsreader is written correctly. If you're seeing an article that has been crossposted in both groups twice there's something wrong with your newsreader. I don't think correctly crossposted articles is the problem though. The problem is articles which are posted to the two different groups separately. The most frequent postings of these types are article which are off-topic for *both* groups (i.e. make money fast postings, commercial solicitations). If I am reading two separate groups instead of one it means I have to delete inappropriately posted articles twice. One of the other problems with crossposting is thread drift. It often doesn't take more then a couple of responses from a thread that might have been appropriate in two separate groups to drift to a topic that is only appropriate in one. One thing you didn't respond to though was my question, "Where would surf boating go?". It's an example of how ill-defined the proposed group is. Also, as a sea kayaker, i guarantee you that new people will think rec.boats.canoe is NOT their newsgroup. Also, i notice that no one metions using kill files to screen title threads. Perhaps the real problem is that people need better newsreader software. If one filtered for about 5 river names, 5 boat brands and about 6 people's names I think about 85% of the whitewater posts could be screened out. regards, Njall
John Fereira Stop Unsolicited Commercial Email - Join CAUCE (http://www.cauce.org) Support HR 1748, the anti-spam bill.
I have a good isp? Woah! That's the first time anyone has said that to me.
Compared to mine. Mine misses about 75% of RBP posts. It is HELL to follow a discussion like that. You can complain about AOL -- hey, it's got to be better than that! But, the nearest place I can get to AOL is still a long-distance call for me. -- Wes -- Posted via Talkway - http://www.talkway.com Surf Usenet at home, on the road, and by email -- always at Talkway.
If a mailing list is okay with you, why not a new newsgroup? Because a newsgroup is about 100 times as resource intensive as a mailing list.
Did that whole discussion, sounds totally facetious to me. Does all rbp equal one gif? Also it was being used as an excuse to silence people. It was a lame and ugly thread. Also, we keep getting posts that say "I left because of too many posts" which is sort like saying "nobody here but us chickens!" It seems like the people that have "left" are the ones reading the most intently! The people that *have* left (like Heimer) are the ones tired of the whining and complaining. There is something very very suspicious going on with the "I left" posts, and it certainly seems to have raised doubts in the minds of the many people who respond "How long does it really take to read the subjects?" gregg
- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - Good points. Also, where would surf boats fit in? The point is, is it REALLY taking people THAT long to scan thread titles? Let me time myself doing it right now.... OK, being honest now, it took me 20 seconds. Is that too big a burden to warrant splitting the groups off into discrete major chunks? If there You're lucky. You have a decent ISP. I have to use Talkways, because I have a lousy one, but it's the only one available through local dialup. It takes me an hour or more to go through RBP, post by post, because trying to do it by message headers is even slower. Since this is winter and I hate TV and the water is too hard for paddling, it doesn't matter, but as soon as things warm up a bit, I often won't have the time to dink around going through post after post, looking for the perhaps five percent that interest me. -- Wes
I have a good isp? Woah! That's the first time anyone has said that to me. regards, Njall
Also, we keep getting posts that say "I left because of too many posts" which is sort like saying "nobody here but us chickens!" It seems like the people that have "left" are the ones reading the most intently!
Um, Gregg, if they are reading all the posts then they must enjoy reading all the posts so volume isn't a problem. Volume is a problem when people are reading relatively FEW posts compared to the total. Think about it. The people that *have* left (like Heimer) are the ones tired of the whining and complaining.
Trust me, there will be plenty of whining and complaining in any new/split groups as well. So, that's irrelevant. There is something very very suspicious going on with the "I left" posts, and it certainly seems to have raised doubts in the minds of the many people who respond "How long does it really take to read the subjects?"
Huh? you lost me with this last part, what's the "suspicious" stuff that is "going on'? Gregg, I am just curious, how long does it take you to scan the thread titles? regards, Njall
Good points. Also, where would surf boats fit in? The point is, is it REALLY taking people THAT long to scan thread titles? Let me time myself doing it right now.... OK, being honest now, it took me 20 seconds. Is that too big a burden to warrant splitting the groups off into discrete major chunks?
How long would it take you to scan two newsgroups? 27 seconds maybe? The point behind all of this is to provide a forum for non-ww boaters to discuss non-ww topics. In an ideal world we would have a newsgroup dedicated to WW only, in which case all *other* forms of paddling would remain in R.B.P. This would prbably result in a good balance of posts between the groups. I have seen many posts roll of my server due to excessive volume on R.B.P - which is 2x rec.backcountry and 4-5x rec.boats.building on any given day. Nobody, as far as I'm concerned is advocating the fractionalization of RBP - just a logical division.
Good points. Also, where would surf boats fit in? The point is, is it REALLY taking people THAT long to scan thread titles? Let me time myself doing it right now.... OK, being honest now, it took me 20 seconds. Is that too big a burden to warrant splitting the groups off into discrete major chunks? If there
You're lucky. You have a decent ISP. I have to use Talkways, because I have a lousy one, but it's the only one available through local dialup. It takes me an hour or more to go through RBP, post by post, because trying to do it by message headers is even slower. Since this is winter and I hate TV and the water is too hard for paddling, it doesn't matter, but as soon as things warm up a bit, I often won't have the time to dink around going through post after post, looking for the perhaps five percent that interest me. -- Wes -- Posted via Talkway - http://www.talkway.com Surf Usenet at home, on the road, and by email -- always at Talkway.
If a mailing list is okay with you, why not a new newsgroup?
Because a newsgroup is about 100 times as resource intensive as a mailing list. Each location it sends it to is less than a piece of e-mail, however there are 100,000 locations. Traditionally, the tradeoff was guestimated at around 100 members, however the internet (and usenet) has grown signifigantly since anyone looked at it, it's probably closer to 1000 now. Jay -- * Jay Denebeim Moderator rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated *
what do you think about REC.BOATS.PADDLE.NON-WHITEWATER While I like the idea of the ww folks moving to a group called rec.boats.paddle.whitewater better, I agree that this is highly unlikely.
This name may be seen as excluding canoe trip reports or route descriptions that have whitewater as a minor element. Lloyd Bowles The Mad Canoeist "Keep the open side up!" http://www.fortunecity.com/greenfield/clearstreets/358/index.html
I agree that rec.boats.paddle.whitewater is a good name for paddlers who play in whitewater. Is this likely though?
Lloyd, what do you think about REC.BOATS.PADDLE.NON-WHITEWATER While I like the idea of the ww folks moving to a group called rec.boats.paddle.whitewater better, I agree that this is highly unlikely. Seems to me that the NON-WW name would accomplish what we need, it would be self descriptive, clear and understandable. Chuck
REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD) unmoderated group rec.boats.canoeing This is a formal Request For Discussion (RFD) for the creation of a world-wide unmoderated Usenet newsgroup rec.boats.canoeing. This is not a Call for Votes (CFV); you cannot vote at this time. Procedural details are below. Newsgroup line: rec.boats.canoeing Discussions related to flatwater canoeing. RATIONALE: rec.boats.canoeing Discussion of flatwater canoeing, canoes, and canoe tripping constitutes a minority of the traffic on rec.boats.paddle. A brief, and admittedly unscientific sampling of the traffic on rec.boats.paddle yielded the following results: 8% of posts were applicable to flatwater canoeing, 8% *might* be of interest to a flatwater canoeist, and 84% of posts dealt with white-water kayaking. Precise percentages are not important, rather, these numbers are presented as a snapshot of a typical day of posts. At a conservative rate of 200 posts per day, a strictly flatwater canoeist would need to sort out 164 posts that he/she considers irrelavent. A rec.boats.canoeing newsgroup would provide an alternative group that strictly flatwater canoeists could subscribe to without the nuisance of sorting inapplicable headers. There have been lengthy discussions in the past on rec.boats.paddle about splitting the newsgroup. They have frequently ended with no RFD being written. This proposed group is not intended to split the newsgroup. Rather, it simply provides a place for flatwater canoeing discussion. Paddlers who enjoy both flatwater and whitewater paddling will benefit from the ability to direct specific comments and questions toward a more focused group. CHARTER: rec.boats.canoeing Appropriate topics for rec.boats.canoeing include questions and comments about canoes, canoe accesories, canoeing technique, flatwater canoeing locations/routes, canoe camping, canoe tripping, and other flatwater canoeing related topics. Discussion about whitewater canoeing is not prohibited, but posters should be aware that their comments and questions would generate higher quality responses in the rec.boats.paddle newsgroup. For Sale and Wanted to Buy posts should be preceded by a [FS] or [WTB] flag in the subject header. Retailers of both used and new boats/gear should provide links to their webpages or e-mail addresses rather than post lists of available boats/gear. Retailers should also limit such posts to a total of 1 per month or less. END CHARTER. PROCEDURE: This is a request for discussion, not a call for votes. In this phase of the process, any potential problems with the proposed newsgroups should be raised and resolved. The discussion period will continue for a minimum of 21 days (starting from when the first RFD for this proposal is posted to news.announce.newgroups), after which a Call For Votes (CFV) may be posted by a neutral vote taker if the discussion warrants it. Please do not attempt to vote until this happens. All discussion of this proposal should be posted to news.groups. This RFD attempts to comply fully with the Usenet newsgroup creation guidelines outlined in "How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup" and "How to Format and Submit a New Group Proposal". Please refer to these documents (available in news.announce.newgroups) if you have any questions about the process. DISTRIBUTION: This RFD has been posted to the following newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups news.groups rec.boats.paddle rec.backcountry rec.boats.building rec.boats.racing (mailing list, see canoecountry.com for info)
Note followup-to is news.groups!!! Summary: This RFD would create a confusing namespace and would not solve the problem leading to the RFD. While I understand and sympathize with the wishes of the flatwater minority on RBP, this RFD will only confuse the issue. rec.boats.canoeing has been proposed as a place for the non-whitewater interests of rec.boats.paddle to use, as a solution for the problems with whitewater traffic drowning out non-whitewater traffic on rec.boats.paddle. But the name is not descriptive, for the following reasons: 1) Some non-negligible percentage of the whitewater posters on rec.boats.paddle paddle canoes, not kayaks. 2) rec.boats.canoeing does not accurately cover the sea kayaking, kayak touring and kayak tripping interests that should also be covered by this split/newgroup. 3) In American English, a "canoe" is a boat paddled with a one-bladed paddle. In British English, the word "canoe" covers both one-bladed and two-bladed craft; in short, what Yanks call a Kayak, Brits call a Canoe. For these reasons, the hierarchy that would result from this proposal passing would result in two groups whose names do not describe the traffic they are supposed to be carrying. The result of this vote passing would be "rec.boats.paddle" for whitewater interests and "rec.boats.canoeing" for flatwater/touring interests. Can anyone honestly say that they figured that out from the names? I cannot vote for this proposal as written, and I encourage all concerned parties to honestly ask themselves if they can. There is a serious danger here that there are many frustrated flatwater boaters willing to vote for anything that will get them out of rec.boats.paddle’s traffic. But a poor solution is worse than no solution in the long run, and this solution will only result in confusion. I encourage all interested parties to brainstorm for a renaming that would CORRECTLY describe the split. An example might be rec.boats.paddle.whitewater rec.boats.paddle.flatwater or flatwater+touring or flatwater+tripping Please, people, we’ll have to live with this vote for a long time. Don’t screw up everybody because it’s easier to vote for the first solution offered rather than wait for the right solution. Finally, let me say that I intend no criticism of Bob Solak. I think he’s done a great thing by stepping up and actually doing the right thing, an RFD, as opposed to countless others who think that groups are formed by a quorum of whining. I just disagree with the name chosen for the new group. 1.01 GCS/GO d++ p+ c++ l++ u++ e+ -m+ s++/- n- h !(f)? g+ -w+ t+ r– y? "I want to permeate the air you breathe/slide my way under your skin/place myself behind your eyes/and watch you, watch me, looking in." Katell Keineg
Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing Flies » Who IS Mike Conner?
Mike Conner is the kind of fly fishing gentleman that I would welcome to have him set up his fly tying vise next to mine and spend several days together . . . musing and inventing and comparing signatures. Mike Conner always has a chair waiting him in my den of fly fishing affairs. Mr. G.
Well that is very kind of you George and I am sure you mean it, and I thank you for saying it. I am sure that if we stuck to flyfishing we would have a great time. I am proud of the fact that you invited me. Unfortunately I do not think I would be able to accept an invitation at the moment, especially in the light of some of your recent posts. My views on some things are obviously diametrically opposed to some of yours, and I am very much afraid we would end up in a heated argument, having nothing whatever to do with flyfishing , to no good purpose. I do not wish to be unfriendly or insulting to you, in fact I respect many of your achievements, and I have tried hard to be friendly, notwithstanding a few run ins we had on earlier occasions, but feel I must state the case as I see it. It is not my place to censure you publicly, this is a free group and you have the right to say what you like, and I am sure you can get along very well without my presumptuous advice. I will presume to give you some anyway, which is meant sincerely from someone who is truly trying his best to be friendly and helpful. Please try and moderate your tone in your posts, and try and think a bit more before you jump in with both feet on any and all subjects. You have succeeded in upsetting a great many people recently, some very badly, to no good purpose, and this will only result in unfriendliness, insults etc being cast in your direction, and is also bad for the group as a whole. You obviously have a lot to offer this group, and it is a shame that you constantly undermine your own position with nonsensical ranting and ill-considered statements or insults to all and sundry. It sometimes looks as if you were purposely inflaming people and making enemies of them deliberately. You must know yourself that this is no good, either for your person or your business. Please George, take a rest and look back at some of your posts in the cold light of day, and I am sure you will realise that this sort of thing does nobody any good. Of seventy posts you sent in a very short space of time at least half were denigrating and insulting to somebody. If you screw up on something, OK, so what, we all do occasionally, but most of us accept this and attempt to rectify matters as soon as possible. Blustering away as if nothing had occurred is not the way to do this. I accept and respect the fact that you are angry about the wanton destruction of the wilderness, and many other things, and your genuine desire to rectify matters, so are many others on this group and elsewhere. The methods proposed and the type of posting you have been using is not the way to advance. The same goes for insulting remarks about your competitors, involved political harangues, or jumping on somebody who advocates using some other product etc etc etc. George believe me please, these are not the actions of a wise man. Maybe you are subjecting yourself to too much stress in all your various efforts to change the world and make it a better place. I can understand your passion in this, in fact I am certain many on this group feel similarly, allowing your unbridled passion free rein , is a very bad way of going about it however, and does not particularly enhance the clarity of your arguments, or your chances of success, and probably blinds you to reality to some extent, so that you strike out illogically at anything even remotely concerned with the subject, in a manner and tone which is guarateed to upset people. Quiet considered argumentation backed up by a good example is far more liable to be successful, and would result in mutual respect and greater friendliness on the part of all concerned. I thought very carefully indeed before posting this to the group, as opposed to just privately, as I do not on any account wish you to take this as an insult. I feel however somebody must say these things to you as directly as possible so that there is no possible chance of misunderstanding, and that there are people on the group who would also like to say them, but are for various reasons reluctant to do so, but would nevertheless like to see them said. George, please do me one more favour. Read this post carefully several times. Go away and think about it for a while, and then come back and read it again before you reply. Perhaps we may yet sit down one day in your den and tie a few flies or down a few grouses. I would like to think so. Whatever you may think or say George. I wish you well. Sincerely Mike Connor
Are you related to Jimmy Connors? I was once flamed for misspelling his name.
No relation, and I dont play tennis, but I do have balls 
If I flamed everybody who spelled my name wrongly, my fingers would be smoking, and I would need a new keyboard twice a week. Tait leins ! Maik Koner
Mike Conner is the kind of fly fishing gentleman that I would welcome to have him set up his fly tying vise next to mine and spend several days together . . . musing and inventing and comparing signatures. Mike Conner always has a chair waiting him in my den of fly fishing affairs. Mr. G.
Hell Wayno, where is the mouthpiece on a golf club ? Tight lines ! Mike Connor, the ignorant
Wayne Harrison’s ass so bad, he will confess humbleness. —
Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » River Fly Fishing » Kennedy Meadows, CA
I’ve caught an occasional golden at Kennedy Meadows, but you’d be better off heading farther north to Lone Pine and going up to the trailhead at Horseshoe Meadows or Cottonwood Creek. Either trailhead takes you to lots of streams with goldens (usually quite small). I noticed on the handouts from the Forest Service that Cottonwood Lakes are open to catch and release now. Another alternative is to go to Bishop and head up the trail from South Lake to Treasure Lakes (though three weeks ago there was still a lot of snow on the trail and ice on the higher lakes). There are goldens in the creek along the way, but the fish in Treasure Lakes are bigger. Try a Sierra bright dot on the ones in the creek. Any way you go, they’re worth the effort. Mark Kelly – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thinking about heading to Kennedy Meadows for the first time. Anyone have any advice on where the best fishing would be up in that area? I’ve been told that if you get above 10,000 ft., you have a shot at Goldens. Thanks ahead of time. Tom
If you have a 4WD (absolutely required) I suggest Monachee meadows which is a few miles away from Kennedy Meadows. There’s a trailhead at the upper end of the meadows. Two years ago, we parked there and hiked in 5 miles for a couple of days of camping and fishing. Caught lots of goldens. They’re not big, but they’re pretty. There’s been a lot of management by the Forest Service and DFG in that area over the past couple of years, so I’d consult with them before making plans. Don’t just look at a topo map and make assumptions. — -dnc- – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thinking about heading to Kennedy Meadows for the first time. Anyone have any advice on where the best fishing would be up in that area? I’ve been told that if you get above 10,000 ft., you have a shot at Goldens. Thanks ahead of time. Tom
The stream at Kennedy Meadows is a small one with 8" browns, rainbows and brookies. You must go higher for goldens. If you follow the stream down far enough it becomes a river and the trout are nice sized. — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-Mail Selling my Fly Fishing Books Go to: http://users.ccnet.com/~emh – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thinking about heading to Kennedy Meadows for the first time. Anyone have any advice on where the best fishing would be up in that area? I’ve been told that if you get above 10,000 ft., you have a shot at Goldens. Thanks ahead of time. Tom
Thinking about heading to Kennedy Meadows for the first time. Anyone have any advice on where the best fishing would be up in that area? I’ve been told that if you get above 10,000 ft., you have a shot at Goldens. Thanks ahead of time. Tom
Thinking about heading to Kennedy Meadows for the first time. Anyone have any advice on where the best fishing would be up in that area? I’ve been told that if you get above 10,000 ft., you have a shot at Goldens. Thanks ahead of time. Tom
I was just up there this weekend, that is the Kennedy Meadows up by Sonora Pass. The river is barely fishable in the morning and raging and a bit cloudy by the afternoons. The horse packers and trail crews still weren’t going up past Brown Bear Pass, about fifteen miles in, because of snow. I was hoping to get to Emigrant lake and further but I cut short my plans and hiked to Lewis lakes, about ten miles in at around 9,000 feet and the two larger of the three were still frozen. These lakes have a ridge just to the west that might shade them a little bit, so it might be that others at the same elevation might be open, but I expect you’d find ice for sure if you hiked any higher. I was thinking it might be better to hike in from Cherry or Pinecrest areas for the lower elevation lakes nearer to those areas. These will have rainbows and brookies. The resort there at Kennedy Meadows has a $1.50 brochure which lists all the lakes, size, depth, elevation and what kind of trout, and a few of the highest ones have Goldens. I plan to try again at the end of August. Mark Vinsel www.vinsel.com
Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fish » Dale Hollow / Table Rock
In a couple of weeks, I will be taking a trip for a couple days of fishing on Dale Hollow then a couple of days at Table Rock. I have never been on either one of them. Anyone have any advice on how to fish and what to use. Any ideas would be appreciated. Thanks
I am envious. I have not been on table rock in 10 years. Table rock is full of bass and a few rainbow’s. There are a few main rivers that empty in to Table rock. One is the white river. This river has decent fishing, but it soon turns shallow. The other river is the Roaring River. Matter a fact I would recommend canning the trip to table rock and heading up to Roaring River State park. Buy a day pass, at last check it was $3, and fish your heart out. The state park stocks the river with trout from the hatchery at the end of the park every night. The limit was 5 trout and they are mighty good eating. Roaring river is about 5 miles from Eagle Rock landing on tablerock. If you like to fly fish, you will not find a better place in which to practice the fine art. Let me know if you wand any further info on Roaring River. IF you still want to go to table rock you will find great coves with plenty of dead cover. That is, plenty of trees and stumps. The bass are thick as theives. If you go down by the dam the water is about 150 feet deep. This is good fishing. The water gets pretty warm in the summer. So the fish tend to run deep in the daytime. I hope you have luck. If you need any further recomendations please let me know. This is where I spent my summers for years. Deon Smith
: In a couple of weeks, I will be taking a trip for a couple days of fishing : on Dale Hollow then a couple of days at Table Rock. I have never been on : either one of them. Anyone have any advice on how to fish and what to : use. Any ideas would be appreciated. I fished the B.A.S.S. Missouri Invitational on Table Rock a few weeks back and I love the lake. If you haven’t booked a place to stay yet I stayed at a place called the Lighthouse Lodge in Kimberling City. A guy named Dave owns it and I really liked him. He is a fair source for where the fish are too. And no I don’t get no kick back or anything else from him. Although I haven’t fished Dale Hollow I was up there this spring to look around and it LOOKED a bit like Table Rock. Judgement based on standing no shore and looking at the lake. So take it for what its worth. Back to Table Rock. Best pattern I saw was fishing CEDAR trees. I could catch nice fish by dragging a lure through the tree and coming in contact with the tree. Stopping right after it hits and I would get bit. This was in varying depths of water. Could be as little as 8 feet and as much as 40. One guys method was to crank a stick bait down into the tops of trees in DEEP water and let it sit there. Move it a bit and let it sit again. It was too slow a pattern for me. Another good lure/method was to through light line with no weight and a Zoom minnow imitation to the tops of trees and let it sink. Twitching once in a while. This was a killer combination IF you had the right color. Color was key here. Just keep trying colors till they start tearing your arms off. Next was gravel points. Look for pea gravel on points and I used jerk baits. This was my best pattern. Both lakes are extremely clear water so long casts are a must. And remember that conditions change and what was working last month may not this month. Oh and when we were there the fish were spawning. Many people caught limits by sight fishing beds. Good fishing, All About Computers | (810) 456-3894 (work) 2887 Pontiac Ct. | (810) 373-6865 (home) Auburn Hills, Michigan | Single and not taking applications. 48326 | Interviews maybe.
Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing » Judge Ito is a fly fisherman
Wouldn’t you know it, OJ’s a fly fisherman too… but I don’t think he’s been fishing for over a year now. My wife’s cousin (I’m not making this up) runs the stables in Yosemite Valley, and has guided OJ and cohorts, on horseback, to The Secret Spots. Unfortunately, I’ve only met the guy once (wife’s cousin, not OJ), and I’ve yet to extract the pertinent info from him (and I don’t mean what kind of knife OJ used to gut his fish). Anyway, I don’t know of what value this info is… It’s just one of those things a guy has to share when given the right opportunity. Perhaps this thread would be more appropriate rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.tabloid newsgroup… -chuck oey — Professional Publications, Inc. profpubl.crl.com
Let’s just hope he doesn’t release cutthroats.
If Judge Ito reads this I hope he accepts my invitation to snook fish in the 10000 islands. Anyone with the patience he has must be a good person to fish with…
Wouldn’t you know it, OJ’s a fly fisherman too… but I don’t think he’s been fishing for over a year now. My wife’s cousin (I’m not making this up) runs the stables in Yosemite Valley, and has guided OJ and cohorts, on horseback, to The Secret Spots.
That’s a good one! Ha! "Secret Spots" in the Yosemite Valley. That place is Disneyworld. If only we the people who own that park could break the stranglehold that the "vendors" have on the valley, it could be returned to the majestic place it ought to be. Yosemite Valley, where you can rent a VCR and a movie about the park and order a pizza to go with it, (in the park) so you don’t even have to look out the window of the RV! Gotta love America. We do it like no one else! Phil Calvin ‘91 Hawkgt, DoD#242
That’s a good one! Ha! "Secret Spots" in the Yosemite Valley. That place is Disneyworld. If only we the people who own that park could break the stranglehold that the "vendors" have on the valley, it could be returned to the majestic place it ought to be.
Dream on. The trend is toward turning all the parks over to private vendors. "If it don’t turn a profit, it ain’t got no value." — -Wayne Trzyna
Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing » Help.
I just purchased a mint condition South Bend bamboo 9′ fly rod. Does anyone know the value of a rod like this, or know how I can find out the value.
I just purchased a mint condition South Bend bamboo 9′ fly rod. Does anyone know the value of a rod like this, or know how I can find out the value.
Len Codela of Turner’s Falls, Massachusetts can appraise it if you send it to him. His current catalog lists South Bend rods anywhere from $100 or less to $400 or so. There were many different levels of quality of South Bend rods. His prices are slightly high as he caters to collectors as much as fishers. Call either 508 or 433-555-1212 to get his number I’m not sure which area code. As this is a fishing more than a collecting forum, I say the real value is how it feels to fish. Try out different lines with it if you can, then take it fishing. If it sings the line out like poetry as smooth as twenty year Scotch, it’s priceless for fishing and that is it’s inspired destiny. Don’t incarcerate it. Mark Vinsel http://www.lanminds.com/local/vinnie/gallery.html
I just purchased a mint condition South Bend bamboo 9′ fly rod. Does anyone know the value of a rod like this, or know how I can find out the value.
I’ve got one of these guys. There more valuable as a fishing tool, albeit a very heavy one, than they are collectible. Interestingly the South Bend company was started by Wes Jordan (later of Orvis fame) though the rods produced were mediocre at best. Still, I fish mine a couple of times a year for half a day or so (really a heavy rod). I’d say go fish it! Dan