Question:

____  I’ve received many E-mail inquiries as to my health and recent operations at the Mayo Clinic.  I’ve had three major operations this year and all in one year.  This last one again went over five hours on the operating table.  It seems the only way I can get a vacation is to go to the Mayo Clinic in Rochester. I guess, with experience comes confidence.  Frankly, I had a wonderful time in the operating room.  I had my first spinal and my anesthesiologist, Dr. David Cook, (a fellow fly fisherman) also kept me a little sleepy.  Every once in a while he would allow me to awake and I’d jabber what a wonderful time I was having which filled the operating room with laughter.  "So are we George.  You’re doing great by the way," and off I’d go, drifting off into dream land.  Dr. David Cook took great care of me and he talked softly about many things.  The operating room had several fly fishermen in it.  All of them, great knot tiers! What was done was, under excellent epidural anesthesia, a complete rebuilding of the aortofemoral graft and the removal of 35 years of cholesterol in the profunda femoris arteries.  Everyone has two of these usually.  I have three, which is rare.  Gore-Tex tubing was used in the by-pass grafting which will last forever.  Those who have circulation problems into their legs should consider this option available to them. If any of this information is of help, I’m glad to post it.  My future looks bright and I will be pedaling my bike in the near future as I work into my exercise program. Without some degree of physical fitness, which I have through exercise, most of this wouldn’t have been possible.  I should also mention that the Mayo Clinic is often cheaper in price than the majority of hospitals in the country, which may be surprising to some. Thank you all for your prayers.  They went with me and meant a lot.  I’m going to be just fine. Sincerely, George Gehrke —

Response:

Glad to hear you are doing well, George. Tim Lysyk – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ____  I’ve received many E-mail inquiries as to my health and recent operations at the Mayo Clinic.  I’ve had three major operations this year and all in one year.  This last one again went over five hours on the operating table.  It seems the only way I can get a vacation is to go to the Mayo Clinic in Rochester.

Response:

Hi George, You will be soon called the ‘bionic fly fisherman’ ? It is amazing what they can do for us old guys today. I had an angioplasty about 5 years ago myself. Exercise and a good diet is the best thing for everyone. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ____  I’ve received many E-mail inquiries as to my health and recent operations at the Mayo Clinic.  I’ve had three major operations this year and all in one year.  This last one again went over five hours on the operating table.  It seems the only way I can get a vacation is to go to the Mayo Clinic in Rochester. I guess, with experience comes confidence.  Frankly, I had a wonderful time in the operating room.  I had my first spinal and my anesthesiologist, Dr. David Cook, (a fellow fly fisherman) also kept me a little sleepy.  Every once in a while he would allow me to awake and I’d jabber what a wonderful time I was having which filled the operating room with laughter.  "So are we George.  You’re doing great by the way," and off I’d go, drifting off into dream land.  Dr. David Cook took great care of me and he talked softly about many things.  The operating room had several fly fishermen in it.  All of them, great knot tiers! What was done was, under excellent epidural anesthesia, a complete rebuilding of the aortofemoral graft and the removal of 35 years of cholesterol in the profunda femoris arteries.  Everyone has two of these usually.  I have three, which is rare.  Gore-Tex tubing was used in the by-pass grafting which will last forever.  Those who have circulation problems into their legs should consider this option available to them. If any of this information is of help, I’m glad to post it.  My future looks bright and I will be pedaling my bike in the near future as I work into my exercise program. Without some degree of physical fitness, which I have through exercise, most of this wouldn’t have been possible.  I should also mention that the Mayo Clinic is often cheaper in price than the majority of hospitals in the country, which may be surprising to some. Thank you all for your prayers.  They went with me and meant a lot.  I’m going to be just fine. Sincerely, George Gehrke —

Response:

Good to hear your up and about G. Maybe now you realize the truth of our current fly-fishing crisis. -Muskie

Response:

Question:

1. Nothing, I do it all the time. 2. Nothing, if it helps to catch fish…it has worked for me. Frank Church Elkhart, IN USAF RETIRED ASST. OLD FART OF ROFF OLD, GRAY, TIRED SWAPMEISTER TIRED OF THIS POLITICAL BULLSHIT – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OK, I hope no one reports me for going OT, but I’ve decided we’ve had enough dilly dallying; it’s time to talk serious politics and try to raise a little debate in this group for once. What’s wrong with fishing downstream? and What’s wrong with fishing a dropper rig with an indicator? Shell away. — "Q: May I ask why this crap is on a flyfishing newsgroup??" "A: This is a flyfishing people newsgroup.  It’s a bunch of people who happen to flyfish talking about various topics that they might talk about while fishing." -Ken Janik (who keeps winding up in my signature files)

Response:

I’m with Frank on this one!  Hell I’ll even cast some bait, if it will catch me a prize winning young (female) divorcee.  Frank’s da man! Opie  –Planning for the Past–

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 1. Nothing, I do it all the time. 2. Nothing, if it helps to catch fish…it has worked for me. Frank Church Elkhart, IN USAF RETIRED ASST. OLD FART OF ROFF OLD, GRAY, TIRED SWAPMEISTER TIRED OF THIS POLITICAL BULLSHIT OK, I hope no one reports me for going OT, but I’ve decided we’ve had enough dilly dallying; it’s time to talk serious politics and try to raise a little debate in this group for once. What’s wrong with fishing downstream? and What’s wrong with fishing a dropper rig with an indicator? Shell away. — "Q: May I ask why this crap is on a flyfishing newsgroup??" "A: This is a flyfishing people newsgroup.  It’s a bunch of people who happen to flyfish talking about various topics that they might talk about while fishing." -Ken Janik (who keeps winding up in my signature files)

Response:

I’m with Frank on this one!  Hell I’ll even cast some bait, if it will catch me a prize winning young (female) divorcee.  Frank’s da man!

Just remember, Opie, that the big fish usually don’t bite on small baits… Kevin

Response:

What’s wrong with fishing downstream?  Nothing at all my friend.  I do all the time on my favorite rivers.  The fish don’t seem to mind and I actually get some very entertaining strikes by letting my fly loop downstream and then stripping it down and across as it drags. I will say that there are situations where casting upstream is required to do well but most of the time, walking down the stream works fine. Mike Wilson

Response:

fishing downstream can be particularly effective…try fishing a softhackle normally upstream then letting it tail out behind you as it goes downstream….caught alot of fish this way…kindof simulates and emerging nymph….try it….youll be surprised… roy

Response:

You been peeping into my window at night Kevin? — Opie  –Planning for the Past–

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m with Frank on this one!  Hell I’ll even cast some bait, if it will catch me a prize winning young (female) divorcee.  Frank’s da man! Just remember, Opie, that the big fish usually don’t bite on small baits… Kevin

Response:

Question:

(snip) Thanks, Dave

Dave, Don’t fish in Virginia!  There are no fish here!  All the fish are in Pennsylvania!  More fish are in New York!  So, don’t fish the Shenandoah, the upper Potomac, Stoney Creek, etc.  THERE ARE NO FISH THERE!  HONEST!!  Fish the Inner Harbor at Baltimore!  Many fish there.  More than you can possibly catch! — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

Response:

Hello all, I am moving to Baltimore ,MD after the first of the year and was wondering what there is for flyfishing available within about a 2 hour drive of the city. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Dave

Response:

I saw on the Trout Unlimited web site http://www.tutv.org/html/maryland.html info about the Gunpowder river outside of DC.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello all, I am moving to Baltimore ,MD after the first of the year and was wondering what there is for flyfishing available within about a 2 hour drive of the city. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Dave

Response:

There is this little body of water that some call the Chesapeake Bay. There are a few fish in it. Good luck.

Hello all, I am moving to Baltimore ,MD after the first of the year and was wondering what there is for flyfishing available within about a 2 hour drive of the city. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Dave — Flyfish NC                                                   Capt Gordon Churchill http://www.flyfish-nc.com                                                                  

Response:

Dave –         There’s more water within a couple of hours of Baltimore than you could reasonably fish in a lifetime.   I’ve lived in that area (actually DC) off and on for many years, and I’d be happy to introduce you to some of the local waters.   Drop me an email, and we’ll arrange to talk sometime.                                 Michael Roegner – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello all, I am moving to Baltimore ,MD after the first of the year and was wondering what there is for flyfishing available within about a 2 hour drive of the city. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Dave

Response:

Dave, I Live in Baltimore and fish the Gunpowder river, at least once a week. It is about a 30-45 minute drive, depending on where you live.  Since our drought last summer, the fishing hasn’t been too hot. Plus the bay tribs are great for stripers now. Mark – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello all, I am moving to Baltimore ,MD after the first of the year and was wondering what there is for flyfishing available within about a 2 hour drive of the city. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Dave

Response:

Dave: Ditto that for me.   I’m 20 mi north of Balto.   Two excellent fly shops in the area, The Fisherman’s Edge & On the Fly.   A couple good streams nearby, dozens more within a few hours’ drive. Drop me a line & I’ll fill you in. Joe Fleischman

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dave – There’s more water within a couple of hours of Baltimore than you could reasonably fish in a lifetime.   I’ve lived in that area (actually DC) off and on for many years, and I’d be happy to introduce you to some of the local waters.   Drop me an email, and we’ll arrange to talk sometime. Michael Roegner Hello all, I am moving to Baltimore ,MD after the first of the year and was wondering what there is for flyfishing available within about a 2 hour drive of the city. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Dave

Response:

Hello, this is Caddis 7 I saw on the Trout Unlimited web site

http://www.tutv.org/html/maryland.html info about the Gunpowder river outside of DC. Hello all, I am moving to Baltimore ,MD after the first of the year and was wondering what there is for flyfishing available within about a 2 hour drive of the city. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Dave

   http://www.newsfeeds.com       The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!

Response:

Hello, this is Caddis 7

I read you, Caddis 7.  How are things out there?  Over. a big 10-4, buddy.  Mark Faulkner

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When I went on an offshore charter in Key West in September, I learned about "brutally hot."  I thought it was bad in NC!  You guys have a monopoly on "miserable" in the heat of summer. Uh, not to intrude, but I can speak with absolute authority that the great state of Florida does *not* have a monopoly on "miserable" in the heat of summer.  I am happy to report that there is robust competition for miserable summer heat.  Ours is just the dry variety.  Not unlike the kind you would roast a turkey in. Russ Ha. It gets so hot in Florida that you just have to pop your fish in a bucket with potatoes and carrots and onions, along with some water, and in three hours…you have chowda! — Harry Krause – - – - – - – - – - – - Do not judge a book by its movie! Three hours?  You’re outa your league here, Harry.  That same bucket sitting on my foredeck in July would give the microwave a run for it’s money.  We’re talkin’ Solar Hell of the first order. Russ

Ahh. But the chowda bucket is sitting in the ice bucket… — Harry Krause – - – - – - – - – - – - Do these white hairs mean I’m turning blond?!?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When I went on an offshore charter in Key West in September, I learned about "brutally hot."  I thought it was bad in NC!  You guys have a monopoly on "miserable" in the heat of summer. Uh, not to intrude, but I can speak with absolute authority that the great state of Florida does *not* have a monopoly on "miserable" in the heat of summer.  I am happy to report that there is robust competition for miserable summer heat.  Ours is just the dry variety.  Not unlike the kind you would roast a turkey in. Russ Ha. It gets so hot in Florida that you just have to pop your fish in a bucket with potatoes and carrots and onions, along with some water, and in three hours…you have chowda! — Harry Krause – - – - – - – - – - – - Do not judge a book by its movie! Three hours?  You’re outa your league here, Harry.  That same bucket sitting on my foredeck in July would give the microwave a run for it’s money. We’re talkin’ Solar Hell of the first order. Russ Ahh. But the chowda bucket is sitting in the ice bucket… —

Ice?  You can keep ice in the summer?  Ice in the summer doesn’t melt here. As it turns to liquid before your very eyes, what you are in fact witnessing are uncontrollable tears from the pain. Russ

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When I went on an offshore charter in Key West in September, I learned about "brutally hot."  I thought it was bad in NC!  You guys have a monopoly on "miserable" in the heat of summer. Uh, not to intrude, but I can speak with absolute authority that the great state of Florida does *not* have a monopoly on "miserable" in the heat of summer.  I am happy to report that there is robust competition for miserable summer heat.  Ours is just the dry variety.  Not unlike the kind you would roast a turkey in. Russ

You are in AZ, right?  I guess I shouldn’t give FL the sole monopoly. I should say they have the monopoly east of the Miss.  I’ve been to San Antonio and Austin in July and August, and that was quite miserable as well.  I have also been to Sacremento and Sonoma in July. It wasn’t very comfortable there, either.  Sorry to not give credit where it is due.  I guess that’s why Death Valley is out there.  Hot as Hades.   Our summer weather is the sort that your glasses fog up as you step out of your air conditioned house or car.  The humidity causes you to sweat profusely, yet you do not cool off.  Your body’s cooling mechanism doesn’t work because you cannot evaporate any sweat.  When I went to California, it was much hotter, and I no doubt sweated, but I didn’t notice it as much because the sweat would actually evaporate.   I guess the moral is at the end of the day, it doesn’t much matter if you are in CA or NC, you had better drink lots of fluids in the hot months.  Heatstroke doesn’t have a monopoly on geography. Jeff Sorry, but email address disguised due to unscrupulous spammers.  Please respond in Usenet.

Response:

Small word of warning.  I got the bimini with mine and found that certain points were held with screws.  They vibrated loose during the first trailer ride and I almost lost the bimini (which would really have sucked for the tailgater behind me <g).  

<snip And then again, how ’bout a quick-release mechanism triggered from the driver’s seat for those moments when you just can’t take the idiot behind you any more?

Response:

Not the rails.  It was the screws that hold the joints of the bimini frame together.  These are the joints where the frame folds.  I guess they thought it would be too difficult to get bolt tightness light enough to allow the joints to fold, while keeping the nut tight enough to not come off.  Using a regular nut and lock washer, followed by the nylok, allows you to set the inner nut loose enough to allow folding, while tightening the nylok against the inner nut holds it exactly in place. – Bud — Bud Feuless & Miki Magara-Feuless

Response:

I was crossing the Galveston Causeway and coming onto I-45 with Ken and Barbie in a red Mustang tailgating me badly.  I am still not sure if it was Divine or Satanic intervention that made a wooden paddle I had accidentally forgotten in the cockpit of my boat fly out and head right for his windshield.  It just missed him, but scared the crap out of both of us.  I’m very careful about no loose items when trailering now.  Maybe he also tailgates a bit less… – Bud — Bud Feuless & Miki Magara-Feuless

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jeff; Small word of warning.  I got the bimini with mine and found that certain points were held with screws.  They vibrated loose during the first trailer ride and I almost lost the bimini (which would really have sucked for the tailgater behind me <g).  I replaced them with a bolt with a lock washer, bolt, and nylock cap nut and they’ve never come loose since (5 years). Regards, Bud — Bud Feuless & Miki Magara-Feuless

Thanks, Bud. My dealer is installing the bimini.  I’ll be sure to check how they mount the rails. Jeff Sorry, but email address disguised due to unscrupulous spammers.  Please respond in Usenet.

Response:

Jeff; Small word of warning.  I got the bimini with mine and found that certain points were held with screws.  They vibrated loose during the first trailer ride and I almost lost the bimini (which would really have sucked for the tailgater behind me <g).  I replaced them with a bolt with a lock washer, bolt, and nylock cap nut and they’ve never come loose since (5 years). Regards, Bud — Bud Feuless & Miki Magara-Feuless

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You are in AZ, right?  I guess I shouldn’t give FL the sole monopoly. I should say they have the monopoly east of the Miss.  I’ve been to San Antonio and Austin in July and August, and that was quite miserable as well.  I have also been to Sacremento and Sonoma in July. It wasn’t very comfortable there, either.  Sorry to not give credit where it is due.  I guess that’s why Death Valley is out there.  Hot as Hades. Our summer weather is the sort that your glasses fog up as you step out of your air conditioned house or car.  The humidity causes you to sweat profusely, yet you do not cool off.  Your body’s cooling mechanism doesn’t work because you cannot evaporate any sweat.  When I went to California, it was much hotter, and I no doubt sweated, but I didn’t notice it as much because the sweat would actually evaporate. I guess the moral is at the end of the day, it doesn’t much matter if you are in CA or NC, you had better drink lots of fluids in the hot months.  Heatstroke doesn’t have a monopoly on geography.

Yeah, AZ is correct.  Been here most of my life.  The Fall, Winter, and Spring are beautiful, but you pay for them with Summer.  Summers never used to bother me when I was younger, but they get harder to deal with every year.  I do think the dry heat is more tolerable than the wet stuff, but it’s still hot.  Congratulations on your new boat.  I bet you can’t wait to get it wet. Russ

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When I went on an offshore charter in Key West in September, I learned about "brutally hot."  I thought it was bad in NC!  You guys have a monopoly on "miserable" in the heat of summer. Uh, not to intrude, but I can speak with absolute authority that the great state of Florida does *not* have a monopoly on "miserable" in the heat of summer.  I am happy to report that there is robust competition for miserable summer heat.  Ours is just the dry variety.  Not unlike the kind you would roast a turkey in. Russ Ha. It gets so hot in Florida that you just have to pop your fish in a bucket with potatoes and carrots and onions, along with some water, and in three hours…you have chowda! — Harry Krause – - – - – - – - – - – - Do not judge a book by its movie!

Three hours?  You’re outa your league here, Harry.  That same bucket sitting on my foredeck in July would give the microwave a run for it’s money.  We’re talkin’ Solar Hell of the first order. Russ

Response:

When I went on an offshore charter in Key West in September, I learned about "brutally hot."  I thought it was bad in NC!  You guys have a monopoly on "miserable" in the heat of summer. Uh, not to intrude, but I can speak with absolute authority that the great state of Florida does *not* have a monopoly on "miserable" in the heat of summer.  I am happy to report that there is robust competition for miserable summer heat.  Ours is just the dry variety.  Not unlike the kind you would roast a turkey in. Russ

Ha. It gets so hot in Florida that you just have to pop your fish in a bucket with potatoes and carrots and onions, along with some water, and in three hours…you have chowda! — Harry Krause – - – - – - – - – - – - Do not judge a book by its movie!

Response:

When I went on an offshore charter in Key West in September, I learned about "brutally hot."  I thought it was bad in NC!  You guys have a monopoly on "miserable" in the heat of summer.

Uh, not to intrude, but I can speak with absolute authority that the great state of Florida does *not* have a monopoly on "miserable" in the heat of summer.  I am happy to report that there is robust competition for miserable summer heat.  Ours is just the dry variety.  Not unlike the kind you would roast a turkey in. Russ

Response:

I saw your model Scout yesterday at a dealer’s I was visiting. It certainly fulfilled my expectation as a really good boat, sturdily built, with good finish work and lots of nice features. What kind of performance do you anticipate from the 150? Also, consider a stainless steel framed bimini rather than a tee-top. I’ll be glad to discuss this with you. — Harry Krause – - – - – - – - – - – - Take a BIG bite out of crime….arrest the Republican Congress.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I did not get the t-top.  It was expensive, and there may be areas that I will fish that I would not want a t-top.  I went with the bimini, mounted on a track.  At the boat shows here in Raleigh, there were about four different top manufacturer’s, so I can always add an aftermarket t-top if I find I use the boat mostly offshore.  The top may also restrict access under some bridges.  Casting with a couple guys in the boat may also get a little "hairy" (no pun intended) with the t-top. As always, Harry, I am interested in hearing your reasons for the boat sans t-top.  An obvious drawback to the bimini vs. t-top is that 360 degree fishability becomes more difficult with the top up. I think it depends on where you fish and how. Florida gets brutally hot in the summer and, if you are fishing, ducking under a bimini provides great relief. The shaded area provided by a tee-top is much much smaller, so that only a couple of fishermen can find relief. If you trailer a lot, you’ll find that the tee-top creates a lot of drag at highway speeds. Tee-tops have a lot of advantages, too, of course. Up on the Chesapeake, most of the fishing seems to be trolling, chum and some bottom, all done from the back of the boat without interference from a bimini. If I want to fly fish and the bimini is down, I can cast in any direction without snagging the uprights of a tee-top. When I went on an offshore charter in Key West in September, I learned about "brutally hot."  I thought it was bad in NC!  You guys have a monopoly on "miserable" in the heat of summer.  It would love to find some type of top that is a cross between a t-top and a bimini.  A top that allows 360* fishability, yet is stowable when you need to take it out.  I imagine some sort of t-top with bolted flange connections that you can unbolt when you don’t want the top on.  Ever seen anything like that? Also curious, Harry.  Are you looking at buying a Scout? Jeff Sorry, but email address disguised due to unscrupulous spammers.  Please respond in Usenet.

No. I’m mildly interested in another brand of boat, but the dealer that handles that one also handles Scout and Grady-White. If I were in the market for another center console, I’d give Scout real serious consideration. Harry Krause – - – - – - – - – - – - Budget: A method for going broke methodically.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I did not get the t-top.  It was expensive, and there may be areas that I will fish that I would not want a t-top.  I went with the bimini, mounted on a track.  At the boat shows here in Raleigh, there were about four different top manufacturer’s, so I can always add an aftermarket t-top if I find I use the boat mostly offshore.  The top may also restrict access under some bridges.  Casting with a couple guys in the boat may also get a little "hairy" (no pun intended) with the t-top. As always, Harry, I am interested in hearing your reasons for the boat sans t-top.  An obvious drawback to the bimini vs. t-top is that 360 degree fishability becomes more difficult with the top up. I think it depends on where you fish and how. Florida gets brutally hot in the summer and, if you are fishing, ducking under a bimini provides great relief. The shaded area provided by a tee-top is much much smaller, so that only a couple of fishermen can find relief. If you trailer a lot, you’ll find that the tee-top creates a lot of drag at highway speeds. Tee-tops have a lot of advantages, too, of course. Up on the Chesapeake, most of the fishing seems to be trolling, chum and some bottom, all done from the back of the boat without interference from a bimini. If I want to fly fish and the bimini is down, I can cast in any direction without snagging the uprights of a tee-top.

When I went on an offshore charter in Key West in September, I learned about "brutally hot."  I thought it was bad in NC!  You guys have a monopoly on "miserable" in the heat of summer.  It would love to find some type of top that is a cross between a t-top and a bimini.  A top that allows 360* fishability, yet is stowable when you need to take it out.  I imagine some sort of t-top with bolted flange connections that you can unbolt when you don’t want the top on.  Ever seen anything like that? Also curious, Harry.  Are you looking at buying a Scout? Jeff Sorry, but email address disguised due to unscrupulous spammers.  Please respond in Usenet.

Response:

I did not get the t-top.  It was expensive, and there may be areas that I will fish that I would not want a t-top.  I went with the bimini, mounted on a track.  At the boat shows here in Raleigh, there were about four different top manufacturer’s, so I can always add an aftermarket t-top if I find I use the boat mostly offshore.  The top may also restrict access under some bridges.  Casting with a couple guys in the boat may also get a little "hairy" (no pun intended) with the t-top. As always, Harry, I am interested in hearing your reasons for the boat sans t-top.  An obvious drawback to the bimini vs. t-top is that 360 degree fishability becomes more difficult with the top up.

I think it depends on where you fish and how. Florida gets brutally hot in the summer and, if you are fishing, ducking under a bimini provides great relief. The shaded area provided by a tee-top is much much smaller, so that only a couple of fishermen can find relief. If you trailer a lot, you’ll find that the tee-top creates a lot of drag at highway speeds. Tee-tops have a lot of advantages, too, of course. Up on the Chesapeake, most of the fishing seems to be trolling, chum and some bottom, all done from the back of the boat without interference from a bimini. If I want to fly fish and the bimini is down, I can cast in any direction without snagging the uprights of a tee-top.

Response:

I saw your model Scout yesterday at a dealer’s I was visiting. It certainly fulfilled my expectation as a really good boat, sturdily built, with good finish work and lots of nice features.

Glad you liked it, Harry.  I looked at boats for a year and stumbled upon Scout at a boat show.  After seeing so many boats, and then getting disgusted with a designer (scratching my head saying, "why in the heck did they put that there?"), the Scout was the answer.   Things are in the right places.  Not only does it have jump seats in the back, it has grab rails for the people in the seat.  That plastic cover for the electronics box?  No need to just toss it in the console and get it all scratched up, Scout machined two pieces of plastic with slots that accept the cover.  Bilge?  You can actually open a small hatch and get your arms down in there to change seacocks, pumps, switches, etc.  Oh, they also gel coat the interior of the bilge (AND the compartment below the console).  Fuel?  No problem.  It holds 92 gallons, plenty for a 20′ CC.  Electronics?  Circuit breakers, not fuses.  Switches?  Mounted on the underside of the aft edge of the console, out of the weather as much as possible. I could go on.  I was, and still am, impressed as hell with the thought and design put into this boat. What kind of performance do you anticipate from the 150?

I tested it with a 150.  The boat, on a river, topped at 51 (boat speedo) with two men and 1/4 tank of fuel.  Here is how Yamaha rates the boat (test performed and certified by Yamaha application engineers): Weight as tested:  3325 lbs (boat, motor, full fuel) Engine:  Yammy, S150TXRW, 150 HP Prop:  13 3/4" X 17", part number 6G5-45978-02-98 Number of people: 2 Seconds to plane:  2.9 Test Conditions: Air temp:  80F Water temp:  74F Elevation:  Sea level Wind velocity:  12 MPH Comments:  test weight included 40 lb battery, fuel, and 50 lb misc. equipment Performance Data: RPM     MPH     GPH     MPG 1000    7.3     1.1     6.6 2000    10.2    2.7     3.7 3000    24.0    7.5     3.2 4000    33.7    12.3    2.7 5000    41.0    13.4    3.0 5400    46.1    15.7    2.0 Speed data gathered with a Magellan GPS receiver. I am not sure if they tested with a t-top or not.  I would guess not. How is that for a manufacturer giving out information?  Another impressive aspect of Scout.  They respond to emails, usually within two or three days.  Not as fast as I would like, but at least they respond. Also, consider a stainless steel framed bimini rather than a tee-top. I’ll be glad to discuss this with you.

I did not get the t-top.  It was expensive, and there may be areas that I will fish that I would not want a t-top.  I went with the bimini, mounted on a track.  At the boat shows here in Raleigh, there were about four different top manufacturer’s, so I can always add an aftermarket t-top if I find I use the boat mostly offshore.  The top may also restrict access under some bridges.  Casting with a couple guys in the boat may also get a little "hairy" (no pun intended) with the t-top. As always, Harry, I am interested in hearing your reasons for the boat sans t-top.  An obvious drawback to the bimini vs. t-top is that 360 degree fishability becomes more difficult with the top up. My list of options include the swim platform, the bow cushion, and bimini top.  I decided against the leaning post.  After fishing for a season, that may change.  The boat comes with a trailerable cover with a three year warranty at no additional charge.  With the t-top, you don’t get a full cover, only a motor cover. I went to the dealer with a big box full of GPS, VHF, antenna, two antenna rail mounts (gps ant., and vhf ant.), fishfinder, and RAM mounts.  I went with the ram mounts to give a horizontal swivel option in addition to the vertical swivel afforded by the factory mount.  The also allows vertical adjustment within the electronics box.  They are slick!  I also thought that if I want to change from my Garmin 128 GPS to a Lowrance 1600 or equivalent in a few years, I won’t have to drill new holes for the electronics.  I have an appointment for 10 am next Saturday to close the deal and hitch up to my new toy. Jeff Sorry, but email address disguised due to unscrupulous spammers.  Please respond in Usenet.

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To me (Richard may/may not agree), it is not as low as you would think

True, I agree, the freeboard is not really that low that I would worry about it.  There are boats with more (GradyWhite) but I prefer the lower sides. The boat does have toeboards

Yes, I forgot about those.  These features a missing on a lot of boats this size and they are very helpful when things get a rock’n. Richard Daines Ledyard, CT http://www.ctol.net/~rdaines/

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Lower freeboard in the aft of the boat has long been considered an important design feature in larger offshore boats, where a swamped cockpit might sink the boat, if the cockpit could hold enough water vs. the reserve flotation in the bow.  I don’t think this is as much an issue with a boat like a Scout that has level flotation, but it is still helpful if you have to clear the cockpit of a greenie, to have the engine above the waterline.  I take my 162 out regularly to 20-30 miles in 2-4′ seas and further when it is calm.  I’ve never taken a drop of spray.  I don’t, however, have kids, though, if I did, they would not come offshore with me without lifevests and swimming lessons anyhow. Good luck! – Bud — Bud Feuless & Miki Magara-Feuless

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The only thing that bothers me about the looks of the Scout is the apparent low free-board. Does this bother anyone but me or is in my imagination. Is a boat with a low free board less safe in offshore conditions?

Absolutely nothing wrong with the Scout’s freeboard unless you are going to have small children in the boat.  Lower sides aft will not be a problem and will certainly aid in boating large, heavy fish.  The boat is self bailing so if, by chance, water does make it over the side, it will drain out quickly. I am glad to see this thread. I was considering the Scout along with the Aquasport, Pro-Line and Sport-Craft

These are all good boats, buy the one that best suits your needs. For me it was a Scout. Richard Daines Ledyard, CT http://www.ctol.net/~rdaines/

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The only thing that bothers me about the looks of the Scout is the apparent low free-board. Does this bother anyone but me or is in my imagination. Is a boat with a low free board less safe in offshore conditions? Absolutely nothing wrong with the Scout’s freeboard unless you are going to have small children in the boat.  Lower sides aft will not be a problem and will certainly aid in boating large, heavy fish.  The boat is self bailing so if, by chance, water does make it over the side, it will drain out quickly. I am glad to see this thread. I was considering the Scout along with the Aquasport, Pro-Line and Sport-Craft These are all good boats, buy the one that best suits your needs. For me it was a Scout. Richard Daines Ledyard, CT http://www.ctol.net/~rdaines/

In my opinion, the freeboard is somewhat decieving on the Scout. There is a downward curve on the top of the gunwale just aft of the seats.  To me (Richard may/may not agree), it is not as low as you would think as you look at the boat on a trailer.  I would guess the freeboard around the jumpseats is about 24".  Take the boat out for a ride where you plan on using it and decide for yourself.  It may bother you, and it may not.  I would recommend making that decision on the water versus on the dealer’s lot. The boat does have toeboards at the bottom of the rod racks, and that is the area where you would lean over to gaff a big fish or release one.  Locking your feet into the toeboards and leaning against the gunwale gives a secure platform for fighting big fish as well. I certainly agree with Richards last statement.  For me, it was also the Scout. Jeff Sorry, but email address disguised due to unscrupulous spammers.  Please respond in Usenet.

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Question:

Howell Raines’ great book "Fly Fishing the Midlife Crisis" is on sale for only $5.99 at www.bargainbookwarehouse.com. In the stores it sells for $22. I don’t think they have any other fishing books.

Response:

"Fly Fishing Through the Midlife Crisis" I agree that it is an excellent read, and I’m not even at mid-life yet…Clint – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Howell Raines’ great book "Fly Fishing the Midlife Crisis" is on sale for only $5.99 at www.bargainbookwarehouse.com. In the stores it sells for $22. I don’t think they have any other fishing books.

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Question:

If anyone would like to check out an article I wrote on the visual demands of flyfishing, check out the website below. It was intended for an Optometry journal, so it’s a bit technical in spots, but give it a try anyway. Dana Rohleder http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Dana_Rohleder/article.htm

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If anyone would like to check out an article I wrote on the visual demands of flyfishing, check out the website below. It was intended for an Optometry journal, so it’s a bit technical in spots, but give it a try anyway. Dana Rohleder http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Dana_Rohleder/article.htmHi Dana

I really liked your piece, especially about "visualization" and nymph fishing. You are so right. I’ve printed a copy and hope you don’t mind if I quote it (with proper credit, etc.) in future ng posts or mag. articles. Those of you on the group really should take a look. Yes it is a bit technical but well written and very informative. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

Response:

If anyone would like to check out an article I wrote on the visual
demands of flyfishing, check out the website below. It was intended for
an Optometry journal, so it’s a bit technical in spots, but give it a
try anyway.
Dana Rohleder

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Dana_Rohleder/article.htm

– Posted using Reference.COM                         http://www.reference.com Browse, Search and Post         Usenet and Mailing list Archive and Catalog. InReference, Inc. accepts no responsibility for the content of this posting.

Response:

Question:

What are the best EASILY AVAILABLE books on salmon fishing and tying salmon flies? Thanx for the help.

Response:

What are the best EASILY AVAILABLE books on salmon fishing and tying salmon flies? Thanx for the help.

First I presume you are asking about Atlantic salmon books, not books relating to inferior <vbg Pacific species. As I write, Fishing Atlantic Salmon by Joe Bates and Pamela Bates Richards, is the best and most available Atlantic salmon fly fishing and fly tying book. It is published by Stackpole and goes for $75.00(US)–although I am reliably informed that a little shopping around might beat that price. Poul Jorgensen’s Salmon Flies is always recommended for fly tying and is easily available. Bates’ much earlier book, Atlantic Salmon Flies and Fishing, is a great classic and has been reissued by Stackpole. Finally, my own, Atlantic Salmon – A Fly Fishing Primer (mimimal fly-tying), can usually be found in second hand catalogs at indecently low prices. Paul Marriner

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What are the best EASILY AVAILABLE books on salmon fishing and tying salmon flies? Thanx for the help.

What kind of salmon and where?  Full dress atlantic salmon flies or pacific/alaska shiny "purty" things?

Response:

Fishing, is a great classic and has been reissued by Stackpole. Finally, my own, Atlantic Salmon – A Fly Fishing Primer (mimimal fly-tying), can usually be found in second hand catalogs at indecently low prices. Paul Marriner

All great fishing books eventually get remaindered. Known fact. Charles Cotton had the same problem. Andrew

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For Atlantic Salmon fishing I swear by Hugh Falkus’ book "Salmon Fishing" available here through Orvis and presumably others.

Response:

Try Fly Fishing for Pacific Salmon, Bruce Ferguson, Les Johnson, Pat Trotter, Frank Amato Publications.

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Question:

After much debate, I finally went out and  purchased a new rod.  A Scott 5wt STS.  Why am I telling you all this?  Mostly because I need advice on which reel will be the best match for this rod.  Under $200.00.  The dealer I purchased the rod from has recomended a make I’ve never seem before T Tom (T Top?).  What do the sages (no pun inteneded) of

rec.outdoors.fishing.fly have to suggest? Thank you in advance! Ross

Ross, The dealer probably said "Teton". John Johnson Lilburn,GA

Response:

You probably mean Teton!  I have seen that one reccomended here before.   A small Lamson or STH would also be good. -Burton On Mon, 13 Jan 1997, Ross Laurie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After much debate, I finally went out and  purchased a new rod.  A Scott  5wt STS.  Why am I telling you all this?  Mostly because I need advice on which reel will be the best match for this rod.  Under $200.00.  The dealer I purchased the rod from has recomended a make I’ve never seem before T Tom (T Top?).  What do the sages (no pun inteneded) of rec.outdoors.fishing.fly have to suggest? Thank you in advance! Ross

Response:

After much debate, I finally went out and  purchased a new rod.  A Scott 5wt STS.  Why am I telling you all this?  Mostly because I need advice on which reel will be the best match for this rod.  Under $200.00.  The dealer I purchased the rod from has recomended a make I’ve never seem before T Tom (T Top?).  What do the sages (no pun inteneded) of rec.outdoors.fishing.fly have to suggest? Thank you in advance! Ross

Hey Ross, This is just my 2 cents, but unless you are fishing for Salmon, Steelhead or any of the big saltwater species known for long runs, a reel is just a device to hold your line. Don’t waste your $$$ on an expensive reel to fish for trout. YMMV, Tom

Response:

After much debate, I finally went out and  purchased a new rod.  A Scott 5wt STS.  Why am I telling you all this?  Mostly because I need advice on which reel will be the best match for this rod.  Under $200.00.  The dealer I purchased the rod from has recomended a make I’ve never seem before T Tom (T Top?).  What do the sages (no pun inteneded) of rec.outdoors.fishing.fly have to suggest? Thank you in advance! Ross

 Hello Ross, I believe the reel he is speaking of is a Teton.  They make a nice reel.  Although, if you are looking for a real clean setup I would look no further than the new Ross Colorado.  The size you want is about $100 and the spools are about $50.  This reel only has a pawl to keep it from free spooling.  No Drag!  But really, is a drag that important on anything under a 6-7 weight rod.  I like the exposed rim. If you feel that you need a drag, maybe the cimmaron by ross would be a good bet.  It is lighter than the Teton. Enjoy Life, Paul Johnson,

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I would go with the Ross reels. Either the Cimarron ($170) or the Gunnison ($210). The gunnison has a great disc drag. Very good reels, beautiful finish and they are light. I would go with the extra $10. Otherwise, the Cimarron is great. No disc drag, otherwise, just as good and pretty. kmustad – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

After much debate, I finally went out and  purchased a new rod.  A Scott  5wt STS.  Why am I telling you all this?  Mostly because I need advice on which reel will be the best match for this rod.  Under $200.00.  The dealer I purchased the rod from has recomended a make I’ve never seem before T Tom (T Top?).  What do the sages (no pun inteneded) of rec.outdoors.fishing.fly have to suggest? Thank you in advance! Ross

Response:

After much debate, I finally went out and  purchased a new rod.  A Scott  5wt STS.  Why am I telling you all this?  Mostly because I need advice on which reel will be the best match for this rod.  Under $200.00.  The dealer I purchased the rod from has recomended a make I’ve never seem before T Tom (T Top?).  What do the sages (no pun inteneded) of rec.outdoors.fishing.fly have to suggest? Thank you in advance! Ross

It getting to be a real bitc… when $200 is a mid priced reel.  The good news is IMHO, that it tough to beat the Cortland LTD’s, which you can have for around $100, and xtra spools for under $40.  Fine disc drags, easy to clean, graphite construction. made in UK (sorry George) USA made look to Tetons, and Lamsons.  There are undoubtedly others but these I own and use. jg

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It getting to be a real bitc… when $200 is a mid priced reel.  

Can you believe it? The good news is IMHO, that it tough to beat the Cortland LTD’s,

They are a good reel. I use the size 80 for my DT5F and WF6F lines and it works just fine. Not as smooth as others, but it’s always been reliable for me. Room for 100 yards of 20lb backing (give or take). Mine is 5(?) years old and has seen lots of streamside rocks and boat bottoms and is still kicking. I’ve never been particularly careful with that reel and it’s never given me a problem. I sort of like the fact that I can bang it around a bit and not fret and fuss. If I had one of the Abel reels with the "Coral" finish, I think I’d be afraid to bring it outside. look to Tetons, and Lamsons.

I would also look at the Orvis Battenkill. I know some on the group tend to quiver at the O-word, but I do very much like their reels. If I had the cash, you can bet I’d have a CFO on my trout sticks. My Battenkill 8/9 Disc has served me well over the past few years since I bought it. The SA System 2L reels are nice and more trout sized than their bigger cousins. I like their smooth drag system (at least the few I’ve fondled in the shops). Bob Petti Endwell, NY

Response:

After much debate, I finally went out and  purchased a new rod.  A Scott  5wt STS.  Why am I telling you all this?  Mostly because I need advice on which reel will be the best match for this rod.  Under $200.00.  The dealer I purchased the rod from has recomended a make I’ve never seem before T Tom (T Top?).  What do the sages (no pun inteneded) of rec.outdoors.fishing.fly have to suggest? Thank you in advance! Ross

I definitely don’t qualify as a sage (no pun inferred) but, I am ecstatic about an LL Bean Streamligh that I paid around $60.00 for.  It has a pawl drag without much oomph to it, but other than that, its extremely ligh weight and has a great feel to it.  On top of that, LL Bean has as good a return policy as you will ever find.  I am using a 4/5 on a 9 ft sage LL 4 wt.  Good Luck! Randy

Response:

Question:

I thought friction was normal force times coefficient of friction.  Nowhere mentioning pressure or area.  Deflation is for soft surfaces where pressure does need to be reduced? pqpqpqpqpqpqpqpqpqpqpqpqpqpqpqpqpqpqpqpqpqpqpqpqpqpqpqpq        Grasping another opportunity to be wrong! [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]

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Man, sand on concrete can REALLY cause you to slip!

This isn’t sand on concrete (like a building site) but sand on a concrete boat ramp. All the ramps I’ve seen have been pretty slippery with weed and green gunk. If I used the same ramp every day, I’d scrub the thing clean and use Jeyes fluid or caustic soda on it occasionally to keep the gunk off. I know little about boat ramps, but I do know about silage clamps and slurry lagoons  (bleurgh !) – even for these noxious devices it’s worth doing a bit of scrubbing & hosing occasionally. Failing that, get as big a contact patch as you can. Soft rubber in small tread blocks (not great mud-plugger tread bars) and a low enough pressure to let the tyre flatten as much as is practical. — alt.flame – Making the world a safer place for postal workers.

Response:

*snip* months, and I’d appreciate some input. In addition, I think it’d make an interesting discussion topic, as well. Ron Morgan Ron, I have a Full size Dodge Van and have never had a problem pulling the boat up the ramp, except for one occasion. It was a really long and very wet ramp. I was having problems with wheel spin, I remember reading somthing about turning your front tires, (somthing about changing the pull ratio) and also applying the parking brake a bit.

    You must have a non-posi rear end on your van…  The emergency brake trick worked on my ‘91 Dakota when semi-stuck in sand (I had a non-posi rearend).   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Boat pulled right out with out any wheel spin what-so-ever. Good luck. Michael

Response:

The next time this happens, try letting some air out of the rear tires – enough to increase the footprint somewhat. Be sure to air up again at the first opportunity. (Longrigger) writes: | Have your buddies jump in the back of the truck to give it wieght. | I have stuck the floor mats in front of the tires once when I was alone | and got stuck, but sand would be alot better. | | Longrigger

    Try pulling up the anchor on the boat…  (I couldn’t resist!)     No, really…  Tire pressure helps a ton, and the start of the pull is the most important part.  Once underway, roll into the throttle, but maintain traction…  (I think that all of the answers I have read here would help.)     …Sam

Response:

Ron To get the best traction on a wet surface (a boat ramp) look for an all season tire with a high volume of tread surfaces.  This type of tire will have a lot of tiny cuts in the tread design.  When the tire is stressed pulling a load, this type of tread will flex and the edges of these cuts will grip the road surface.  Do Not consider the course off road tread design!  It has the worst hard surface traction. You should also be very light on the gas pedal.  A posi traction differential is also a big help if it is kept maintained and the clutches adjusted. Would you believe I pull a 3800 lb boat up steep boat ramps with a chev s-10 with no problems? Good Luck Wayne

Response:

Conditions: a standard half-ton truck, attempting to pull a 3,000 pound fishing boat up a fairly steep concrete launch ramp. The boat is on a 4-wheel trailer in good condition. The truck is, of course, rear-wheel drive, and has more than enough horsepower.

. . . . Ron Morgan

Since you have more than enough horsepower – if one rear wheel starts to spin, hold the parking brake release open and apply the parking brake.  If you apply hard enough, both wheels will receive power. You can also try stabbing at the parking brake if the engine does not have enough power. Not a sure fire thing.  But it is another trick to but in your bag. Terry Dobie 83 CJ7 Hailey, ID

Response:

I use my Jeep Grand Cherokee to haul my boat.  I learned the hard way that you have to ease into the pull.  I use an awefull ramp in East Falmouth Cape Cod that is always covered in a thin layer of scum.  On one occasion, I was sort of hurried by other boaters waiting to get out of the water and I pulled to fast.  Before I knew it, my tires were spinning and I was moving backward.  OOOOPS!  Thank god I stopped on time.   I now make sure that my air pressure is a little lower (more surface space), and that I ease into the pull.  At this one particular ramp, I often throw handfulls of sand onto the algae to create a little traction.  I read a lot of others posts where sand is the enemy, but in this scenerio, it works well. Good luck David

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Conditions: a standard half-ton truck, attempting to pull a 3,000 pound fishing boat up a fairly steep concrete launch ramp. The boat is on a 4-wheel trailer in good condition. The truck is, of course, rear-wheel drive, and has more than enough horsepower. Special consideration: the ramp is *wet*, due to water dripping off other boats that were just pulled out. My truck can just BARELY pull the boat up the ramp under these conditions. If it’s dry, no problem, but when the ramp is wet, the tires slip and spin, sometimes even smoking. It’s a very, very marginal situation. Last night, I came very close to being stranded at a deserted ramp after dark; I could *not* get that boat up that ramp, and finally made it up after creeping about an inch at a time, before the tires would slip. God only knows what kind of wear this produced on my transmission. Question: what kind of tire tread design would provide the *most* friction? Knobby, off-road type, or a smoother "pavement" type? Remember, by the way, that this is extremely low-speed operation, just barely turning, in fact, so concepts like "hydroplaning" probably wouldn’t apply here. We’re talking about pulling a load up a wet concrete surface. How about it, you guys? I need to buy new tires for my truck in another couple of months, and I’d appreciate some input. In addition, I think it’d make an interesting discussion topic, as well. Ron Morgan

Ron, I have a Full size Dodge Van and have never had a problem pulling the boat up the ramp, except for one occasion. It was a really long and very wet ramp. I was having problems with wheel spin, I remember reading somthing about turning your front tires, (somthing about changing the pull ratio) and also applying the parking brake a bit. Boat pulled right out with out any wheel spin what-so-ever. Good luck. Michael

Response:

How about it, you guys? I need to buy new tires for my truck in another couple of months, and I’d appreciate some input. In addition, I think it’d make an interesting discussion topic, as well.

        Er, does that imply that your current tires are rather bald?         If so, ‘nuf said.         Relative weight of vehicle and tow is important. (If the wheels         on your trailer are bigger than the wheels on your tow vehicle,         you’re in trouble. Saw a Chicago flatlander trying to tow a large         boat with his Beamer. Didn’t make it.)         In your case, the truck should have enough towing weight, but         the question is about weight on the rear wheels.         o The angle of the ramp tends to transfer more weight to the           rear wheels.         o Tounge weight of the trailer is important.         I am hauling a smaller  14′ runabout (40 horse motor) with a         Ranger pickup in a similar situation. I have no problems.         o I have a stick, so can control things better.         o When I was towing with a station wagon and automatic, I would:            o Put the transmission in second            o Step on the brake            o Give it some gas.            o Use the break as a clutch, slowly easing up so that there              was no jerk in the initial pull. Frank R. Borger – Physicist     ___      "I think medical research would show Michael Reese – U of Chicago   |___       that being a Cubs fan lengthens Center for Radiation Therapy   | |_) _    your life. Or maybe it just _seems_ ph: 312-791-8075 fa: 791-2517       |_)

Response:

Conditions: a standard half-ton truck, attempting to pull a 3,000 pound fishing boat up a fairly steep concrete launch ramp. The boat is on a 4-wheel trailer in good condition. The truck is, of course, rear-wheel drive, and has more than enough horsepower. Special consideration: the ramp is *wet*, due to water dripping off other boats that were just pulled out.

After many years of enjoying the entertainment of watching people pull boats out at a wide variety of ramps throughout the western US, I know this: The initial pull to get a boat up out of the water is substantial, if you think of how hard it is to pull a small water skier up out of the water, imaging something with 30 times the weight and surface tension and bad hydrodynamics (the trailer…not the boat!) Many people think the best approach is to try to accelerate quickly to "get the damn thing going!", so they give their rig too much throttle. Once you break adhesion on a slick surface, you cannot pull a load equivalent to before you spun the wheels.  So if it spins, let off the throttle and let the wheels catch traction.  Then, try again with less acceleration.  Don’t think that spinning your wheels faster will get you up the ramp, ’cause it will only make it harder to get out. As other posts have said, lowering your tire pressure a little will help a lot.  But I have found on most ramps I can get my boat out by just driving a little more gently and not starting the spinning.  I find an auto trans works better, since you can accelerate from a standstill very slowly without having to dump the clutch.  But I have had several trucks with 4 speeds and a couple of 5 speeds.  You just gotta take it easy, and don’t try to pull the boat out fast.

Response:

How about it, you guys? I need to buy new tires for my truck in another couple of months, and I’d appreciate some input. In addition, I think it’d make an interesting discussion topic, as well. Ron Morgan

Wide, sticky tires in my opinion. Though they spread the weight out more, there is more surface for gripping. It will reduce fuel economy somewhat though.  Also, I would worry more about hydroplaning on FRONT wheels where you could loose steering control. You might try putting some weight over that axle or letting 5lb of air out if you get stranded. George Bonser

Response:

I thought friction was normal force times coefficient of friction.  Nowhere mentioning pressure or area.  Deflation is for soft surfaces where pressure does need to be reduced? …        Grasping another opportunity to be wrong!

seems you caught this opportunity nicely That’s the description you find in physics 101, but it doesn’t work well in this case.  It works for flat surfaces in contact (with a few other assumptions).  When you add rough surfaces, compressible and deformable surfaces, and weak surface features (like sand on the ramp) that can withstand only a (smallish) maximum force before breaking away, then surface area and tread play an important role.

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Conditions: a standard half-ton truck, attempting to pull a 3,000 pound fishing boat up a fairly steep concrete launch ramp. Special consideration: the ramp is *wet*, due to water dripping off other boats that were just pulled out. Ron Morgan

I stuck my truck in Galveston Bay this way.  My solution was to buy an old CJ5.  Now I drop into 4 wheel drive in low range.  And no problem. A cheaper alternative is to mount a trailer ball on the front which keeps those rear wheels way up out of the water. cfly — Charlie and Dorothy Fly Non-Trivial Solutions 2951 Marina Bay Dr. Suite 130-349 League City, TX  77573-2733

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he one with the lower tread life would be better. You could also get a bit wider tires.  I’ve also seen people with a bucket of sand they toss out to get a better grip.

Man, sand on concrete can REALLY cause you to slip! Sand on ICE is ok but no sand is better on non-frozen concrete. George Bonser

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Conditions: a standard half-ton truck, attempting to pull a 3,000 pound fishing boat up a fairly steep concrete launch ramp. The boat is on a 4-wheel trailer in good condition. The truck is, of course, rear-wheel drive, and has more than enough horsepower. Special consideration: the ramp is *wet*, due to water dripping off other boats that were just pulled out. My truck can just BARELY pull the boat up the ramp under these conditions. If it’s dry, no problem, but when the ramp is wet, the tires slip and spin, sometimes even smoking. It’s a very, very marginal situation. Last night, I came very close to being stranded at a deserted ramp after dark; I could *not* get that boat up that ramp, and finally made it up after creeping about an inch at a time, before the tires would slip. God only knows what kind of wear this produced on my transmission. Question: what kind of tire tread design would provide the *most* friction? Knobby, off-road type, or a smoother "pavement" type? Remember, by the way, that this is extremely low-speed operation, just barely turning, in fact, so concepts like "hydroplaning" probably wouldn’t apply here. We’re talking about pulling a load up a wet concrete surface. How about it, you guys? I need to buy new tires for my truck in another couple of months, and I’d appreciate some input. In addition, I think it’d make an interesting discussion topic, as well. Ron Morgan

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Conditions: a standard half-ton truck, attempting to pull a 3,000 pound fishing boat up a fairly steep concrete launch ramp. The boat is on a 4-wheel trailer in good condition. The truck is, of course, rear-wheel drive, and has more than enough horsepower. Special consideration: the ramp is *wet*, due to water dripping off other boats that were just pulled out. My truck can just BARELY pull the boat up the ramp under these conditions. If it’s dry, no problem, but when the ramp is wet, the tires slip and spin, sometimes even smoking. It’s a very, very marginal situation. Last night, I came very close to being stranded at a deserted ramp after dark; I could *not* get that boat up that ramp, and finally made it up after creeping about an inch at a time, before the tires would slip. God only knows what kind of wear this produced on my transmission. Question: what kind of tire tread design would provide the *most* friction? Knobby, off-road type, or a smoother "pavement" type? Remember, by the way, that this is extremely low-speed operation, just barely turning, in fact, so concepts like "hydroplaning" probably wouldn’t apply here. We’re talking about pulling a load up a wet concrete surface. How about it, you guys? I need to buy new tires for my truck in another couple of months, and I’d appreciate some input. In addition, I think it’d make an interesting discussion topic, as well. Ron Morgan

    Ron I had the same ‘problem’ with my old truck (‘91 Dakota with limited slip).  I would put up a slippery ramp and one tire would spin (no posi!)…  I helped the situation by putting all of the crap in the back of the truck that was in the boat, to put more weight over the rear tires (Coolers, skis, gas cans, clothes, etc.)  This made a difference.  I don’t know what type of truck you have, or if it has posi, but with my NEW ‘95 Dakota w/posi + 5 speed I am able to pull that same boat, with all of the crap still in the boat, with no problem out of the same ramp.  I do run a lower tire pressure, as this tends to put more rubber onto the ground, giving more traction.  You might try that too…(it wouldn’t hurt).       BTW  If you didn’t already know this, when pulling out of a boat ramp with a automatic trans, and you work pretty hard to pull that boat up (any pull should be considered) the ramp, make sure you don’t pull up to the staging area and shut off your truck while securing you boat. All of the heat generated by the pull will not leave the transmission (as it didn’t get cooled yet by the transmission cooler)…and can cause a lot of wear/tear/damage to your transmission.  My bone-head friend went through 2 transmissions over 2 seasons going to the Colorado river with his boat.  Every time he got it out of the water he would shut down, secure the boat, then take off…with an air temp of about 110 F. that truck would almost boil the transmission fluid!!!  He learned.     I got a 5 speed ( no cooler needed!), and it works a lot better than a automatic (at least for me it does).     My $.02     ..Sam

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& Conditions: a standard half-ton truck, attempting to pull a 3,000 & pound fishing boat up a fairly steep concrete launch ramp. The & boat is on a 4-wheel trailer in good condition. The truck is, & of course, rear-wheel drive, and has more than enough horsepower. & Special consideration: the ramp is *wet*, due to water dripping off & other boats that were just pulled out. & My truck can just BARELY pull the boat up the ramp under these & conditions. If it’s dry, no problem, but when the ramp is wet, & the tires slip and spin, sometimes even smoking. It’s a very, & very marginal situation. Last night, I came very close to being & stranded at a deserted ramp after dark; I could *not* get that & boat up that ramp, and finally made it up after creeping about an & inch at a time, before the tires would slip. God only knows what & kind of wear this produced on my transmission. You don’t say what the truck is, but does it have a limited slip differential (pozi-trac, sure-grip, etc)?  If not that would get you double the traction.  They can be added to many of the trucks out there. Hewlett Packard              (707) 794-4848 fax      (707) 538-3693 home 1212 Valley House Drive      http://web.sr.hp.com/~frankb/ Rohnert Park CA 94928-4999   KC6WUG, AMA, DoD #7566, NMLRA, I’m the NRA. U.S.A.              Dodge V8 Dakota, Yamaha IT175 XT350 YZF600R Seca 750

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Almost everybody I know has had the same problem with some combination of boats, ramps and tow vehicles. I have better traction on my jeep since I moved up on tire size. The tires are all weather radials. I can still spin all 4 tires if the ramp is mucky enough. Just having new tires will make a difference because the rubber will be softer and the thicker tread will be more compliant than on the older tires. My neighbor mounted a hitch ball on the front bumper of his 2WD truck which let him keep his rear tires high and dry. This can be particularly important at low tide, especially on ramps in estuaries that tend to silt up and/or grow moss. I carried a 20 foot heavy duty tow rope for several years untill the size of my tow vehicle caught up with my boat. I have also seen tongue extensions used for the same purpose. Many sailboaters use these because a keelboat has to be sent WAY back before it will float off the trailer. They either telescope out of the trailer tongue or are carried along side. Some of them even have their own wheels on them that will take much more abuse than a standard trailer jack wheel. My jeep has mushy rear springs and a short wheelbase, so I don’t run with much tongue weight. You can usually run much more tongue weight on a real truck like yours. 300 or 400 lbs of tongue weight, if you are not already running that much, could do a lot for your traction problems. Check with the truck manufacturer to see what they recommend.                                                 vaaler

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Conditions: a standard half-ton truck, attempting to pull a 3,000 pound fishing boat up a fairly steep concrete launch ramp. Special consideration: the ramp is *wet*, due to water dripping off other boats that were just pulled out.

Ron, Missed the original post… but here’s a technique I use to get my boat up the ramp that works pretty well.  Then I’ll add an emergency method that is nice to keep in reserve. As with you, I’ve found that getting a boat up a wet ramp can be no small task.  I have a 24 ft Grady White, pulled by a new (OHC 4.6L V8) Mercury Marquis (has towing package, no "de Sade" option).  I also use a GMC P/U, 2WD, also with towing option, also V8 automatic. The idea is to kinda simulate what anti-lock brakes do to help create an anti-slip traction control.  When you get ready to pull out, keep your foot on the brake, hard.  Push on the accelerator to get the engine RPMs up (and thus power), by spinning up the torque converter.  This is kinda like those brake starts you used to do from a traffic light with Dad’s old Galaxie 500.  (Oh sure, like you never did it?!?)  Now s-l-o-w-l-y lift pressure off of the brake until the vehicle and trailer just start to move.  Then KEEP YOUR BRAKE FOOT IN THIS POSITION UNTIL YOU GET MOVING WELL UP THE RAMP.  Modulate your speed with the brake foot.  Leave the accelerator foot pretty far or all the way down.  The brakes are helping to minimize wheel spin!  Taa Daa… Poor man’s traction control! YMMV, and I won’t vouch for any affects on the drivetrain (geez, you’re pulling a big ol’ boat anyhow, and the amount of time it takes to do this is probably 15 seconds or so…) An alternate, and by my vote emergency, method is to use the boat to help get you started.  This one can be a bit dicey.  It can work it you sink in your trailer enough (drive on type…).  As the car starts to pull out, put the boat in gear and gun it.  As you get going, kill the boat engine and tilt up.  Obviously, timing is key here.  Could bend a lower unit or prop; could ride up on the trailer into the tow vehicle…  I don’t recommend this technique except in an emergency.  It beats leaving the boat at the dock until the tide rises, or worse yet, launching the boat, trailer and tow vehicle….  Both methods can be combined. —Steve Steve Cutchen              If we always do what we’ve always done,

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Have your buddies jump in the back of the truck to give it wieght. I have stuck the floor mats in front of the tires once when I was alone and got stuck, but sand would be alot better. Longrigger

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writes: Conditions: a standard half-ton truck, attempting to pull a 3,000 pound fishing boat up a fairly steep concrete launch ramp. The boat is on a 4-wheel trailer in good condition. The truck is, of course, rear-wheel drive, and has more than enough horsepower. Special consideration: the ramp is *wet*, due to water dripping off other boats that were just pulled out. [...]

Believe it or not, we have a fairly steep ramp here at our marina, and one of the simplest, although not safest ways to do it is to have someone stand on the trailer tongue and hang on to the boat while it’s being removed.  The extra weight on the tongue will most frequently permit lightweight conversion vans and passenger vehicles to make their way up without slippage.  Like I said, this isn’t the safest way, and we do it based on experience rather than have customers do it themselves.   $.02 more . . . — SELKIRK LIGHTHOUSE        Jim Walker, Keeper Lighthouse Marina         Voice:  315-298-6688 P.O. Box 228              Fax:    315-298-6685 ‘SELKIRK LIGHTHOUSE Home Page’           ‘http://www.maine.com:80/lights’ ‘WWW-VL: Lighthouses, Lightships & Lifesaving Stations’       ‘http://www.maine.com:80/lights/www_vl.htm’ ‘Salmon River/Lake Ontario Sportfishing Reports’       ‘http://www.maine.com:80/fish-ny’

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Conditions: a standard half-ton truck, attempting to pull a 3,000 pound fishing boat up a fairly steep concrete launch ramp. Special consideration: the ramp is *wet*, due to water dripping off other boats that were just pulled out. Ron Morgan

Ron – When you buy your tires, make sure you get a better traction rating.  Talk to the tire dealer about traction ratings and wet pavement.  He may help you out tremendously. (Softer tires may wear quicker.) Other solutions to consider can make a big difference :         1. Put a couple hundred pounds of sand bags or blocks in the                 very back of the truck.  Spinning can be caused by not                 enough weight on the rear wheels.         2. Adjust your boat on the trailer to increase the tongue weight                 of the trailer (not to an extreme).  With the boat further                 on the trailer, you will get more weight on the truck tires.         3. Next truck, get limited slip differential to use both back wheels instead of one. Good luck and may all your ramps be dry ones, Joe

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Question: what kind of tire tread design would provide the *most* friction? Knobby, off-road type, or a smoother "pavement" type? Remember, by the way, that this is extremely low-speed operation, just barely turning, in fact, so concepts like "hydroplaning" probably wouldn’t apply here. We’re talking about pulling a load up a wet concrete surface. How about it, you guys? I need to buy new tires for my truck in another couple of months, and I’d appreciate some input. In addition, I think it’d make an interesting discussion topic, as well.

There’s a lot coming into play. I find all terrains are significantly better than road tires.  I would assume mudders are even better.  My guess would be that the deep tread actually allows some of the edges of the tread to grip the ramp, cause there’s certainly lower area in contact.  Course that also means greater psi. Another factor is the softness of the rubber.  I would suspect that given two identical tires, the one with the lower tread life would be better. You could also get a bit wider tires.  I’ve also seen people with a bucket of sand they toss out to get a better grip.  No-one really complains about sand at a launch ramp. kevin

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Conditions: a standard half-ton truck, attempting to pull a 3,000 pound fishing boat up a fairly steep concrete launch ramp. The boat is on a 4-wheel trailer in good condition. The truck is, of course, rear-wheel drive, and has more than enough horsepower. Special consideration: the ramp is *wet*, due to water dripping off other boats that were just pulled out.

[...]         have you tried deflating the rear tyres a bit?  you’d get a larger         contact area.         andrew —            work phone/fax: 0131 668 8356, office: 0131 668 8357     institute for astronomy, royal observatory, blackford hill, edinburgh                      http://www.roe.ac.uk/ajcwww

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Question:

Can anyone provide information of good fly fishing spots in and around Ithaca New York?   Thanks GDO

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Can anyone provide information of good fly fishing spots in and around Ithaca New York?   Thanks GDO

I have made the three – plus hour trip out to Ithaca from Albany a few times to fish for landlocked salmon, brown trout, and rainbow trout in the spring and fall.  Mostly I have stuck to Fall Creek, but I have also fished Salmon Creek which is a short drive from Ithaca.  Fall Creek flows right through Ithaca, and some of the best fishing can be in the large pool at the base of the magnificent waterfall about 1.5 miles upstream from where the creek pours into Cayuga Lake.  For info on what when where why etc. I suggest the book "Good Fishing in Western New York"…I think it is available from Countryman Press. Right now it may be a little early for the rainbows, but browns and salmon may be in.  It’s been a dry fall around here, though, and I haven’t heard anything great about the fishing in the Finger Lakes tribs.  Of course, if you live in the area it’s no big deal to check it out…if you hear anything about the salmon run, please post it.  I am desperate to catch a landlock on my flyrod!!! Paul DiConza     NY Capital District Angler

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