Question:

Thanks for the info. Bill , that River Runner is exactly what I need . I phoned to order one a few minutes ago and he`s gone for two weeks fishing     I would have got one overnighted to my place but… Thanks Jeff

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Jeff, We are using them on small outboards from 4hp to 25hp on the lower America River in Sacramento, California to sneak around the shallow rocky river for stripers. The river has a 5mph speed limit so horse power is not an issue. We are using small boats that run 8′ to 16′ long. Mac’s "River Runner" is what you need. They seem to work well and help reduce prop damage. You can get them directly from Mac’s or you can find them at some boat or marine supplies too. They come in several sizes and are easy to install. Here is the web address: http://www.propsavers.com/ — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com After smashing my prop to bits yesterday I`m seriously considering a prop guard . Any of you using them ? Like em ? Hate em ?  Just like your experiences on performance after the install . I`m not going high speed , just doing a lot of river running and it LOW LOW LOW right now , 2 feet of water in some spots . Ouch ! Thanks Jeff

Response:

Trouble with that is my engine is a 30HP and when the jet pump goes on I lose about 30 % . I would like the jet , but if I`m going to have to go new I might as well sell my outfit and buy a 4.3 L inboard / jet river boat . A Merc 40 HP Jet up here is $ 7300.00 CAN plus taxes . Jeff

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You should seriously consider replacing the lower unit with a jet unit. They use them quite a bit in the North West on the rivers there. Just my $0.02 worth After smashing my prop to bits yesterday I`m seriously considering a prop guard . Any of you using them ? Like em ? Hate em ?  Just like your experiences on performance after the install . I`m not going high speed , just doing a lot of river running and it LOW LOW LOW right now , 2 feet of water in some spots . Ouch ! Thanks Jeff

Response:

After smashing my prop to bits yesterday I`m seriously considering a prop guard . Any of you using them ? Like em ? Hate em ?  Just like your experiences on performance after the install . I`m not going high speed , just doing a lot of river running and it LOW LOW LOW right now , 2 feet of water in some spots . Ouch ! Thanks Jeff

Response:

Hi Jeff, We are using them on small outboards from 4hp to 25hp on the lower America River in Sacramento, California to sneak around the shallow rocky river for stripers. The river has a 5mph speed limit so horse power is not an issue. We are using small boats that run 8′ to 16′ long. Mac’s "River Runner" is what you need. They seem to work well and help reduce prop damage. You can get them directly from Mac’s or you can find them at some boat or marine supplies too. They come in several sizes and are easy to install. Here is the web address: http://www.propsavers.com/ — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After smashing my prop to bits yesterday I`m seriously considering a prop guard . Any of you using them ? Like em ? Hate em ?  Just like your experiences on performance after the install . I`m not going high speed , just doing a lot of river running and it LOW LOW LOW right now , 2 feet of water in some spots . Ouch ! Thanks Jeff

Response:

You should seriously consider replacing the lower unit with a jet unit.  They use them quite a bit in the North West on the rivers there. Just my $0.02 worth – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After smashing my prop to bits yesterday I`m seriously considering a prop guard . Any of you using them ? Like em ? Hate em ?  Just like your experiences on performance after the install . I`m not going high speed , just doing a lot of river running and it LOW LOW LOW right now , 2 feet of water in some spots . Ouch ! Thanks Jeff

Response:

Question:

Good post snipped. I’m definitely no streamer expert but many writers have commented that the eyes on a streamer are a trigger for the fish. Gary LaFontaine even ties a streamer with the eyes at the rear of the fly (near the hook bend) to help eliminate all the missed strikes. Willi

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Good post snipped. I’m definitely no streamer expert but many writers have commented that the eyes on a streamer are a trigger for the fish. Gary LaFontaine even ties a streamer with the eyes at the rear of the fly (near the hook bend) to help eliminate all the missed strikes. Willi

That’s the reason for the Sedge Hook Perch.  Instead of moving the eyes back, I’m moving the hook point forward. Peter

Response:

The first Sedge Hook Perch is on ABPF.  Not a great first effort and I wasn’t able to get any olive cafltail – used bucktail instead so the profile is not what I hoped, but you can get the idea.  Vertical bars are done with black magic marker. Peter

Response:

<< There are some designs that put the hook much closer to the head of the streamer. Gartside does it with his marabou soft hackles, others as well use shorter shank hooks with streamer materials extending far past bend. This could be done, I suppose, as long as the materials don’t foul around the gape of hook. <<  Tom Littleton This is one of the virtues of the Lefty’s Deceiver and Kreh and Clouser’s Half & Half.  Lefty Kreh also writes that big fish are head hunters. GKT

Response:

<< There are some designs that put the hook much closer to the head of the streamer. Gartside does it with his marabou soft hackles, others as well use shorter shank hooks with streamer materials extending far past bend. This could be done, I suppose, as long as the materials don’t foul around the gape of hook. <<  Tom Littleton This is one of the virtues of the Lefty’s Deceiver and Kreh and Clouser’s Half & Half.  Lefty Kreh also writes that big fish are head hunters. GKT

Saltwater patterns have used this approach for years as the fish are known headhunters, but apart from clousers, there aren’t many freshwater versions.  Though I didn’t start out the Sedge Hook Perch with a particular saltwater fly in mind, it certainly did end up resembling one.   Since I can’t make much use of it till next year, if anybody would like to try a couple, email me your snail mail and I’ll send them off. In return, you have to post your results. Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Peter, That is a good looking fly you posted on ABPF. I wish more people would post flies on ABPF. Reading a description of a fly just doesn’t cut it. I think the streamer tied on a short shanked hook has a better "look" and it probably would have better action. What do you use for eyes? Willi

Response:

: That is a good looking fly you posted on ABPF. I wish more people would : post flies on ABPF. Reading a description of a fly just doesn’t cut it. Many, maybe even most, of us don’t get ABPF… JonCook.

Here ya go Jon. http://www.ezflyfish.com/perstreamfly.html Peter has graciously allowed for this information to be posted at ez. Thanks Peter…. –Walt — Walter G. Winter Ezflyfish.com:  http://www.ezflyfish.com Blue Ridge Book Gallery: http://users.boone.net/wgw/brbg.html

Response:

Peter, That is a good looking fly you posted on ABPF. I wish more people would post flies on ABPF. Reading a description of a fly just doesn’t cut it. I think the streamer tied on a short shanked hook has a better "look" and it probably would have better action. What do you use for eyes? Willi

They’re on a peel and stick sheet.  I cover them with flex cement afterward or they’d just drop off. Peter

Response:

: That is a good looking fly you posted on ABPF. I wish more people would : post flies on ABPF. Reading a description of a fly just doesn’t cut it. Many, maybe even most, of us don’t get ABPF…

So ask your university sysop to add it. ‘Tain’t no big thang… /daytripper

Response:

Many, maybe even most, of us don’t get ABPF… So ask your university sysop to add it. ‘Tain’t no big thang…

Spoken like a man who’s never been a university sysop. — Ken Fortenberry- never got ABPF

Response:

Many, maybe even most, of us don’t get ABPF… So ask your university sysop to add it. ‘Tain’t no big thang… Spoken like a man who’s never been a university sysop.

Well, true, I was never a sysop in college, and my college days preceded Usenet anyway (360/20 programmer "back in the days" when real computers ran on air)… But the "no big thang" was referring to the *asking*. As we both know the actual *doing* is trivial…even for a university sysop. /daytripper (Even those that call central Illinois "Home" ;^)

Response:

Well, true, I was never a sysop in college, and my college days preceded Usenet anyway (360/20 programmer "back in the days" when real computers ran on air)…

Ah yes, those were the days. We had one of the few 360/44’s, kind of a RISC precursor I suppose, without the complete instruction set so math operations were faster. We had a 1620 prior to that and a ‘hands on’ 1130 w/8K RAM<g. — Charlie…

Response:

http://www.ezflyfish.com/perstreamfly.html

Do most of you who post pics of flies use digital cameras?  If so, do they have built-in macros or did you have to do something else to get close-up shots? Mu

Response:

http://www.ezflyfish.com/perstreamfly.html Do most of you who post pics of flies use digital cameras?  If so, do they have built-in macros or did you have to do something else to get close-up shots?

"long"? I use an Oly C2020Z which has built-in macro capability. However, I usually top the lens off with a macro multiplier (I have a 2X and a 4X) to really fill the frame and make the most of the CCD (rather than crop down the shot and lose pixels). I think I can speak for "Vern" and Paul G wrt your questions: they both shoot using C2020Z’s , but I’m pretty sure they haven’t bought the macro multipliers yet. My matched brace of Nikkormats, an F5, and a Minolta (all SLRs) are all feeling very lonely and neglected these days… /daytripper ("Totally Digital"  ;^)

Response:

http://www.ezflyfish.com/perstreamfly.html Do most of you who post pics of flies use digital cameras?  If so, do they have built-in macros or did you have to do something else to get close-up shots? Mu

I just stick ‘em in my scanner, squish the buggers then crop ‘em. Looks like hell but people know they’re flies. Peter the always helpful

Response:

Olympus 2020, does macros just fine without any add on’s Vern – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – http://www.ezflyfish.com/perstreamfly.html Do most of you who post pics of flies use digital cameras?  If so, do they have built-in macros or did you have to do something else to get close-up shots? Mu

Response:

http://www.ezflyfish.com/perstreamfly.html Do most of you who post pics of flies use digital cameras?  If so, do they have built-in macros or did you have to do something else to get close-up shots? Mu

Mu, while I haven’t taken any photos of flies yet, I have taken a ton of pics of small desert flowers.   Some of them will fit on a dime with a lot  room left over.  The decision to use macro is a personal one depending on how you want the subject to look.  I can get the lens to within about 1/4 inch without macro.  I advise a tripod for macro and telephoto.   Camera?  Sony Mavica FD-91.  Macro ability plus a bunch more including interchangable lenses and filters. http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonyfd91/  Lemme know and I can send some examples. — All fishermen are liars ‘cept you n me, and I’m starting to have doubts about you! www.fishticker.com

Response:

My matched brace of Nikkormats,

        tripper:  what flavor nikkormat do you have?  are you interested in getting shut of one of them? wayno the digital anti-christ

Response:

The mystery has finally been solved – and on the last day of the season.  Anyway  . .

Great report snipped for brevity. Peter, Very interesting info. Some observations from fishing for Lake Trout and Landlocks in a stillwater that mesh with your obsrvations: About thirty five years ago, I spent some time fishing for Lakers and Landlocks in the local reservoir. The hot method at the time was still or drift fishing with large shiners for bait. the predominant forage fish were Smelt and Yellow Perch. I had a number of hits, but very few hookups the first few times out, and often, when I got a hit, the bait would still be on the hook, dazed but alive. I mentioned this to a local guy who had been catching a lot of fish, and he told me it was very important not to set the hook at the strike, but to wait until the fish began to run with the bait. He said that Lakers and Landlocks often made a pass  and struck a baitfish, and then turned and picked it up. Once I started following his advice I began taking Lakers in the four to six pound range, and Landlocks in the two to four pound range regularly. Seems to be quite similar to your experience with the Browns. Funny thing is that I have also caught Lakers and Landlocks using streamers in the river that drains the reservoir, (they escape over the spillway in high water), and they don’t exhibit the same behavior there. They just grab the streamer and turn. Go figure.{:-) George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

Response:

The mystery has finally been solved – and on the last day of the season.  Anyway  . . Last week I post up some stuff about streamer fishing for browns on the Grand and having something like 50 hits and only landing about half-a-dozen.  I had been using a green ghost which is a bit perch-like and perch have been getting washed through the dam into the river during high water periods.  So I tied up two perch flies, one based on a 1/0 Rangley hook (I posted the recipe here and on ROFFT and the image on ABPF), the other on a 4X #6 Diiachi.  The 1/0 used float foam to give it some buoyancy while the other had a small strip of lead added. To try and bring some order to the process, I decided to track all happenings over one hour starting at 2:30 pm.  I had decided to use the #6 for half an hour and then the 1/0 but events overtook that plan. At the access point, a small island divides the channel creating a smallish pool and seam on the south side and a chute emptying into a larger, slower pool on the north side.  Everyone tromps through the southside pool so I never expect much there; one fish at best.  Right at the water’s edge, I begin fishing the #6, casting directly across current and stripping back in a "U".  Within ten minutes I have six hits and three landed – but here’s where the interesting shit happens. One fish has taken the #6 perch directly from the rear and hooked up mid lower jaw.  The other two were foul hooked in the face above the upper jaw.  The direction of the hookup indicates that they turned on the fly and hit it broadside while facing downstream.  They were hooked up on the far side of their face, indicating that they had aimed for the head of the fly.  It all made sense.  Perch are a spiny rayed fish so trout must have ingrained behaviour to aim for the head so that they can swallow head first and smooth down the dorsal spines. This explains why I had so many misses and lost fish last week. Here’s all the poop: Recorded results for one hour. Presentation was directly across stream with a "U" retrieve and a 3" to 4" strip.  (a slower presentation than last week – 12" strip) Total casts – 100 to 120 Total hits – 21 Total hooked – 12 Total landed – 9 Total lost -3 Total foul hooked – 5 (4 in the face and 1 behind the head) Average size of fish – 9" Results by fly:         # 6  Perch – 6 hits, 3 hooked, 3 landed, 2 foul hooked         1/0 Perch – 5 hits, 0 hooked, 0 landed, 0 foul hooked         #6 g. ghost – 10 hits, 9 hooked, 6 landed, 3 foul hooked In deeper, faster water, 2 browns took the fly broadside while facing downstream and one took from the rear.  In shallower, slower water 5 of the 6 browns landed took the fly broadside facing upstream (the 6th faced down.)   After I brought my third fish to hand, I dropped it and grabbed the tippet.  The knot parted and away swam my only #6 perch.  I tied on the 1/0 and tried my luck in the slower northside pool but 5 hits only.  Crossing back to the south side of the island, I began working the tailout down about 200 yards to the end of Cedar Run with what was left of my Green Ghost.  After the end of the hour, I picked up one more small one and then hooked and landed a nice 15" brown. Unfortunately, it was also fouled; this time under the jaw.  After the 15" fish, I changed presentation to a classsic quartering downstream approach and did not get a single hit.   After changing back, I landed another small one.  After a meal break, I picked up one 16" brown on a joe’s smelt.  Once I got back on the water I tried a black nosed dace (one of Charlie’s) and a joe’s smelt to see if the browns would hit them differently.  These being representations of soft rayed fish and having obvious strike zones with their red tails, I was curious if they performed better,  Total was 6 hits, 4 hookups, 1 landed (the 16" one.)  Not really enough action to draw any conclusions. Results on first misses: – Mindful of Mike’s advice, I tried to remember to drop in some slack after a miss.  I had no results on the 1/0 despite one solid hit from a larger fish.  On the green ghost, I had one persistant small guy whack it three times in succession without a hookup and missed another small one on the second hit.  The 16" was classic.  He hit and missed, I dropped the smelt.  he did nothing, then I made one strip and he nailed it directly from the rear.  I hooked him up mid lower jaw. There’s no doubt in my mind that these browns were headhunting the perch flies.  From now on, I’ll be tying my perch flies on short shanked, heavy wire hooks (like a Mustad 3906B) or on sedge hooks that have a small, straight shank.  Too bad I won’t get to try them on the browns to the end of April 2001.  I’ll tie some up tomorrow afternoon and post a binary on ABPF. Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

addendum: Some conclusion now that I’ve had some more time to digest the results and read other peoples’ comments. The method of attack for a brown is variable and they choose their method based on prey species and relative size (them vs. the prey.) and other variables like temperature, water clarity, etc. Some conculsions: When I fish my mini streamers, I have a 40% to 50% hookup rate of which I probably land 4 out of 5.  Foul hookups are very rare and the majority of hookups are mid lower jaw with a few mid upper jaw. Corner of jaw hookups are rare.  This indicates that the browns are tail chasing the streamer and taking it on the first hit.  The missed strikes can be attributed to short takes on the fast moving, tiny streamer. A few weeks back, I foul hooked another 15" brown under the jaw when using a #4 streamer.  The pattern seems to be – small fish take from below, probably looking for a gill shot, whil the larger fish seem to take from slightly above, probably turning into the prey at the head. Not all fish are looking for a disabling shot, in the Attack-Maime-Return mode as some seem to have hookups that appear to come from an attempt to seize the prey.  If they are in the mood to strike and drop, then it’s important to have a spongy, neutral buoyant fly with a small hook to avoid jaw to steel contact.  The Sedge Hook Perch should fit this bill.  The white calftail belly and red gill slash will form a target for the smaller fish. The large head and eyes work for the larger ones.  Since the sedge hook is small and light, and the bulk of the fly is made up of semi-buoyant hair, it should react well when tension is released after a strike.   Liberal use of flex cement over the front of the fly will also aid buoyancy and provide a spongy feel to the attacking fish.  Once released, the fly should drift more naturally than a weighted or big hook fly.  As most of the profile of the fly is simply hair, then it should also move more naturally than a stiff, long shanked fly. Since my season is now closed, maybe somebody else could give this fly a shot. (off to buy some vino for SWMBO and some olive calftail so I can complete the prototype.) Peter Peter

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -What a great discussion….and some people wonder why we come here! This whole streamer thing has been puzzling me for years. Getting hits versus hookups,etc. There have been some great observations in this discussion. My feeble brain is spinning. perhaps it would be worthwhile tying up some "reversed" streamers, That is to say, streamers with the heads at the bend of the hook. How would such a streamer be fished such that the drift would look right? Angle of pull from rod would seem to give it a tailward oriented motion. There are some designs that put the hook much closer to the head of the streamer. Gartside does it with his marabou soft hackles, others as well use shorter shank hooks with streamer materials extending far past bend. This could be done, I suppose, as long as the materials don’t foul around the gape of hook. I may be trying a few ideas out as we head into the fall season here in PA and post if any intelligent thought or observation arise. Thanks again for the discussion!                            Tom Littleton

Tom Here’s the perch fly I’m planning for next year.  It can be done in any colours for any bait fish – I bet a baby brown would be perfect for PA. Sedge Hook Perch Hook – Kamasan # 8 Sedge or similar Thread – 3/0 Olive Uni-thread Tinsel – gold Flashaboo Belly – white calftail Throat – red Uni-floss Underwing – chartreuse bucktail Wing – Olive calftail Overwing – three strands of thick peacock herl Eyes – stick-on black on gold Tying instructions: All of the material will be tied on the short, straight section of the sedge hook shank.  Tie on a bed of thread.  Do not worry about building up too much bulk as we want a big head.  Tie in three strands of flashaboo doubled and trimmed to length.  Wrap thread over flashaboo to the end of the shank.  Invert hook and tie in the white calftail as a belly.  I’m using calftail instead of bucktail as it’s bulkier and stiffer, producing the deep perch profile.  Then wrap in the red floss at the rear of the shank over the calftail to a width of about 1/8".  This represents a gill flare on a frightened fish.  Then in turn, wrap in the bucktail close to the eye and the length of the shank, followed by the olive calftail then the herl.  Build up the head with thread the full length of the shank and stick on the eyes. Leave about 1/16" of the red floss showing at the back.  Then coat liberally with head cement at least to 1/8" beyond the head. Later on today when I get finished of the chores, (SWMBO is a slave driver)  I’ll tie up one and post it to ABPF. Peter

Response:

What a great discussion….and some people wonder why we come here! This whole streamer thing has been puzzling me for years. Getting hits versus hookups,etc. There have been some great observations in this discussion. My feeble brain is spinning. perhaps it would be worthwhile tying up some "reversed" streamers, That is to say, streamers with the heads at the bend of the hook.

How would such a streamer be fished such that the drift would look right? Angle of pull from rod would seem to give it a tailward oriented motion. There are some designs that put the hook much closer to the head of the streamer. Gartside does it with his marabou soft hackles, others as well use shorter shank hooks with streamer materials extending far past bend. This could be done, I suppose, as long as the materials don’t foul around the gape of hook. I may be trying a few ideas out as we head into the fall season here in PA and post if any intelligent thought or observation arise. Thanks again for the discussion!                             Tom Littleton

Response:

Great report. Thanks for the info.  Seems it could be a combination of things. Trout taking spiny rayed fish head first, and the "attack maim and wait, and then hit again" behaviour we already discussed. Bullheads are also "spiny rayed", and I already explained the behaviour of trout, in my experience,  in this case.   I assume that my original idea was correct, and the trout attack the fish to damage it, and then come back to take the fish head first,  Seems very reasonable. Just a daft idea, but perhaps it would be worthwhile tying up some "reversed" streamers, That is to say, streamers with the heads at the bend of the hook. This practice is common with lightweight pirks, they are fished "the wrong way round", the fish take on the drop, as the pirk is apparently diving head first for the bottom. I have no idea how this might sensibly be realised, but I will have a think about it. My running water season is finished for this year, so I will not have a chance to try any of this for a while, But very interesting, and food for thought. TL MC — "If you have tried everything you know, and nothing works, then perhaps it is time to accept that you don

Question:

Hi I am going to the flyfishing retailer show in Salt Lake City in mid September and want to go fishing for a couple of days. Can anyone recommend a good spot, and also a decent place to stay, not too expensive ($30 or so) Tight lines!

Response:

The Provo River can fish well at times!!  The Green, but it is a bit of a drive. Good Luck, Forrest Forrest FlyFishingREVIEW.com Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Try the Provo river supposed to be second only to the Green in Utah

Response:

Two weeks ago the Provo was running to high to fish very well.  I think the Green would be best.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Try the Provo river supposed to be second only to the Green in Utah

Response:

Get out a map. When I went to school in Provo an elephants age ago, we filled our freezer with Browns from the Spanish Fork, at the south end of Utah Valley, and in the creek off the highway that runs down into Helper and the Utah coal country. There is an "American Fork" toward the north end of the Valley, that used to be pretty good too. Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Two weeks ago the Provo was running to high to fish very well.  I think the Green would be best. Try the Provo river supposed to be second only to the Green in Utah

Response:

I’ve fished the Provo River twice, in the lower tailwater section. Lots of fish, mostly nymph fishing.  Good size fish. Beautiful scenery.   The Sept. 99 issue of Fly Fisherman has a comprehensive article on the Provo.   Steve Kling

Response:

I live in Salt Lake City, Utah and have flyfished for years if you want info email me directly Mike Holtum

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve fished the Provo River twice, in the lower tailwater section. Lots of fish, mostly nymph fishing.  Good size fish. Beautiful scenery. The Sept. 99 issue of Fly Fisherman has a comprehensive article on the Provo. Steve Kling

Response:

Question:

HI, has anyone built a whitewater dory from plans.  I have found some Mckenzie Drift boat plans, and these seam very similat to what I want. Any help appreciated. Steve Gubser Johnson City, TN

Response:

There are a number of suppliers for your project. Check out a fly fishing magazine in the classified.  Don Hill  in Springfield Oregon  puts out plan, partial kit, and full kit.  (www.driftboats.com)  or Driftboat plans from Montana, www.montana-riverboats.com/boats/index.html,  Tracy Obrian at www.calacess.com/tracy/boatpage.htm or Greg Tatman Wooden boats  at www.gregboats.com .  Also John’s  page if useful, www.cyber-dyne.com/jkohnen/nautical.html  Have fun.  I’m currently working on a highsided 18′  for GrandCanyon and Salmon/Snake waters.

Response:

Question:

: Many years ago, when Goretex first came out, my wife and I bought two top : of the line sets of rain gear.  We would be soaked after standing in the : rain fishing all day.  We took them back and have not used Goretex again : (using rubber instead).  But, is the product really waterproof today….and : I mean standing or walking all day in a good Oregon rain.  I still mean a : really good, expensive set.  Please advise.  Thanks. :   : Fred Rickson I had a similar experience with some Gortex Atlantis raingear I bought about 20 years ago.  It never was water resistent let alone water proof.  I have several other later pieces of Gortex gear which are much better. :   :   — Isaac(Ike) B. Wilder That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.

Response:

Well, my goretex waders work. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Many years ago, when Goretex first came out, my wife and I bought two top of the line sets of rain gear.  We would be soaked after standing in the rain fishing all day.  We took them back and have not used Goretex again (using rubber instead).  But, is the product really waterproof today….and I mean standing or walking all day in a good Oregon rain.  I still mean a really good, expensive set.  Please advise.  Thanks. Fred Rickson

Response:

Well, my goretex waders work. Many years ago, when Goretex first came out, my wife and I bought two top of the line sets of rain gear.  We would be soaked after standing in the rain fishing all day.  We took them back and have not used Goretex again (using rubber instead).  But, is the product really waterproof today….and I mean standing or walking all day in a good Oregon rain.  I still mean a really good, expensive set.  Please advise.  Thanks. Fred Rickson

Hi All, The original Gore-Tex became contaminated or dirty and then leaked. That was many years ago. Now they have Gore-Tex jackets, pants, gloves, hats, boots and waders. It now has an anti-contamination feature that really made the difference. Gore-Tex, like many long term products has gone through many evolutions. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

Response:

Fred,     My wife bought me for Christmas an Orvis Gortex wading jacket. Since that time I have used it on the rivers and lakes from Nova Scotia to Newfoundland. Throughout that period I encountered everything from steady and heavy downpours to biting cold snow squalls. The jacket performed superably trough all and I am continually thanking her for this purchase. The coat has no yet soaked through, though I will say that it does get "heavy" with water after several hours of standing in the rain. The nice aspect of the Orvis coat is that they put an unconditional five year guarantee on the jacket for everything from barbwire tears to leakage…either way they fix or replace. I think some of the other coats on the market such as Simms, Patagonia, LL Bean and even Cabelas own name brand wading jacket are all good quality. Yes, Gortex has improved alot since when it was first marketed. Hope this helps. Cheers, Colin Dartmouth, NS

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writes: will easily keep you dry and comfortable in the worst Oregon weather (I lived in Oregon from 1976 to 1987). You didn’t spend all that time living in Ontario or Baker City…did you?

No, I lived in Troutdale and then in Sandy (east of Portland towards Mt. Hood). The main drawback with Gore-tex is the price – they are spendy.  The performance now is superb.  If you’re still worried about getting stuck, just be sure to buy from a company or a dealer that has a 100% satisfaction guarantee. Have you spent all day walking in a brush field?? In western Oregon?? Does it work then??  If I spend that much money it really needs to work in a situation other than downtown Portland or a tourist on a rainy day walk on a trail.  Thanks.

The rivers I primarily fished were the Sandy, the Clackamas (main stem and North Fork), the Salmon, Eagle Creek (the one near Estacada), and  the North Umpqua.    Once in a blue moon I’d fish the Wilson or the Trask.  Also fished the Deschutes, the Williamson, Fort Creek, Spring creek, and Squaw Creek in Southern and Central Oregon.  The GPS-2 standard Gore-tex such as the Orvis Tailwaters wading jacket will easily hold up to this type of use.                       Good Fishing,                          Dan Dan Gracia Orvis

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[deleted] The rivers I primarily fished were the Sandy, the Clackamas (main stem and North Fork), the Salmon, Eagle Creek (the one near Estacada), and  the North Umpqua.    Once in a blue moon I’d fish the Wilson or the Trask.  Also fished the Deschutes, the Williamson, Fort Creek, Spring creek, and Squaw Creek in Southern and Central Oregon.  The GPS-2 standard Gore-tex such as the Orvis Tailwaters wading jacket will easily hold up to this type of use.

Not me man…I’m staying right in my dry and warm living room until the GPS-3’s are actually shipping….I can’t believe you actually fished the Eagle in a GPS-2…what were you thinking man ? What kind of waders do you have for those massive balls of yours to even try such a stunt ? — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "Guilt replaced the creel…"

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Many years ago, when Goretex first came out, my wife and I bought two top of the line sets of rain gear.  We would be soaked after standing in the rain fishing all day.  We took them back and have not used Goretex again (using rubber instead).  But, is the product really waterproof today….and I mean standing or walking all day in a good Oregon rain.  I still mean a really good, expensive set.  Please advise.  Thanks.

Your right about first generation gore-tex being of poor quality… WL Gore acted quickly to fix these problems completely though..My first set of Gore-Tex raingear was 3rd generation and hasn’t leaked a bit, and my new wading jacket (Cabella’s Gore-Tex) is incredible… — Chris Schmelzer, MS-2 Medical College of Wisconsin Milwaukee, WI 53208

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I wasn’t going to say anything, since the subject was "GoreTex" per se, but I have been absolutely overjoyed with the "Dry Plus" jacket I bought from Cabellas for about half what the competition wanted. Now I want their waders in the same fabric. Again, very competitively priced. Look good, and my wife wants to wear my stuff… Good luck. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Many years ago, when Goretex first came out, my wife and I bought two top of the line sets of rain gear.  We would be soaked after standing in the rain fishing all day.  We took them back and have not used Goretex again (using rubber instead).  But, is the product really waterproof today….and I mean standing or walking all day in a good Oregon rain.  I still mean a really good, expensive set.  Please advise.  Thanks. Your right about first generation gore-tex being of poor quality… WL Gore acted quickly to fix these problems completely though..My first set of Gore-Tex raingear was 3rd generation and hasn’t leaked a bit, and my new wading jacket (Cabella’s Gore-Tex) is incredible… — Chris Schmelzer, MS-2 Medical College of Wisconsin Milwaukee, WI 53208

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will easily keep you dry and comfortable in the worst Oregon weather (I lived in Oregon from 1976 to 1987).

You didn’t spend all that time living in Ontario or Baker City…did you?  The main drawback with Gore-tex is the price – they are spendy.  The performance now is superb.  If you’re still worried about getting stuck, just be sure to buy from a company or a dealer that has a 100% satisfaction guarantee.

Have you spent all day walking in a brush field?? In western Oregon?? Does it work then??  If I spend that much money it really needs to work in a situation other than downtown Portland or a tourist on a rainy day walk on a trail.  Thanks. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Many years ago, when Goretex first came out, my wife and I bought two top of the line sets of rain gear.  We would be soaked after standing in the rain fishing all day.  We took them back and have not used Goretex again (using rubber instead).  But, is the product really waterproof today….and I mean standing or walking all day in a good Oregon rain.  I still mean a really good, expensive set.  Please advise.  Thanks.

Hi Fred, When Gore-tex first came out lots of people made waterproof rain gear out of it.  A lot of them didn’t know what they were doing and either didn’t seal the seams, or sealed them correctly.  Gore-tex got a real black eye from this and they quickly changed their licensing agreements so people couldn’t call it Gore-tex if they didn’t follow the Gore-tex approved construction methods. This made a huge difference and they started rebuilding their reputation. However, Gore-tex still had some problems with salt and dirt clogging it up, and also had a problem with some chemicals.  About 7 years ago they came out with a second generation Gore-tex that is not bothered by either.  The current Gore-tex is an expanded PTFE membrane and works great.  When it gets dirty, you wash it with Tide.  When water stops beading up on the outer fabric (typical with heavy use after 5 or 6 years), you re-treat the outer fabric with Tectron or Scotchguard.  Even if the outer fabric loses its DWR (Durable Water Repellancy) and gets completely waterlogged, you still won’t get wet.  You may feel like you’re wet because the water is flush up against the membrane when the outer fabric’s DWR is gone, but when you take it off, you’re dry.  Re-new the DWR as needed for best comfort. Gore-tex has a couple of "water repellancy" standards they test designs against.  The most stringent is the GPS2 standard.  The North Face, Marmot, and a number of other  backpacking equipment manufacturers have designs that meet this standard.  Orvis has a Gore-tex fishing jacket called the Tailwater’s Wading Jacket that is GPS2 certified.  Any products that meet this standard will easily keep you dry and comfortable in the worst Oregon weather (I lived in Oregon from 1976 to 1987).  The main drawback with Gore-tex is the price – they are spendy.  The performance now is superb.  If you’re still worried about getting stuck, just be sure to buy from a company or a dealer that has a 100% satisfaction guarantee.                        Hope this helps,                            Dan Dan Gracia Orvis

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Fred Rickson schrieb in Nachricht Many years ago, when Goretex first came out, my wife and I bought two top of the line sets of rain gear.  We would be soaked after standing in the rain fishing all day.  We took them back and have not used Goretex again (using rubber instead).  But, is the product really waterproof today….and I mean standing or walking all day in a good Oregon rain.  I still mean a really good, expensive set.  Please advise.  Thanks. Fred Rickson

Hi Fred, I had the same problem, my wife and I bought two very expensive Goretex fishing jackets which we were told was the best there is , we used them a couple of times and then took them back,because we were soaked after an hour or so of solid rain, the dealer said he couldnt understand it, but wouldnt take them back.  I would never buy this stuff again. We now have Sympatex jackets, which are lighter, cheaper and WATERPROOF ! Tight lines ! Mike Connor

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We now have Sympatex jackets, which are lighter, cheaper and WATERPROOF !

I don’t have anything against Gore-Tex, but I agree that Sympatex is lighter, cheaper and more comfortable to wear.  I also have a "Triple Point Ceramic" anorak made by Lowe Alpine that is impervious to wind and rain and is (IMHO) the ultimate for hiking, fishing, etc., in bad conditions. Dan

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Many years ago, when Goretex first came out, my wife and I bought two top of the line sets of rain gear.  We would be soaked after standing in the rain fishing all day.  We took them back and have not used Goretex again (using rubber instead).  But, is the product really waterproof today….and I mean standing or walking all day in a good Oregon rain.  I still mean a really good, expensive set.  Please advise.  Thanks. Fred Rickson

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WELL DONE I LAUGHED ALL WAY THROUGH IT

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Have I’ve got a good one for you! I traveled to British Columbia the last week of August to visit family up in Mackenzie. My new brother-in-law (affectionately known as Phlem) is a real die-hard fly fisherman. Me – a die hard bass fisherman (picture a bass boat, 150hp, 10 rods, 400 crankbaits, 500 jigs, 4000 pieces of rubber, and 5 more tackle boxes; all hurtling insanely down the lake at 60+ mph). Anyway, he convinced me that I should try my hand at fly fishing for the first time. So I borrowed my brother

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We are taking a four-day trip to Citico Creek in East Tennessee next week. We would appreciate any suggestions that would help us catch a few trout while we are there. We are beginners in almost every way; we have gear but maybe not the right flies for this time of year and that location. Thanks in advance! Jim and Linnea

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We are taking a four-day trip to Citico Creek in East Tennessee next week. We would appreciate any suggestions that would help us catch a few trout while we are there. We are beginners in almost every way; we have gear but maybe not the right flies for this time of year and that location. Thanks in advance! Jim and Linnea

Dear Jim and Linnea! I live in Knoxville Tennessee and fish mostly in the smokies and sometimes in the national forest where you are going. I haven’t fished Citico creek but I fished North fork Citico and the south fork last year. It’s a little hot this time of the year so early morning or late evening is your options. I use mainly an attractor dry fly like parachute adams or a thunderhead which is a local dry pattern. My sizes would be a 12 or 14. Instead of going to Citico where you have to have a special permit to catch the stockers, I would go to wild streams like The North River or North and South fork of Citico. Bald River has plenty or Rainbows also. Expect the fish to be small though unless you fish in the Tellico River for stockers. I sometimes use a nymph or a terrestrial and my choices then would be a hopper or an ant pattern. For the nymphs a pheasant tail or Gold Ribbed Hare’s ear  will work as well as the Tellico nymph. E-mail me if you all have any other questions. I’m not an expert but I love mountain fishing. Sincerely Hans

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I would start with a 14 Elk Hair Caddis or an Adams. Light Cahills also do quite well. Also, with a little drive you could fish Little North River (a tributary of Telleco). I have always caught fish there. Good Luck Greg – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We are taking a four-day trip to Citico Creek in East Tennessee next week. We would appreciate any suggestions that would help us catch a few trout while we are there. We are beginners in almost every way; we have gear but maybe not the right flies for this time of year and that location. Thanks in advance! Jim and Linnea

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Question:

I believe the Vermont season opens in April

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I am planning a family trip to Killington Vermont the 24th of January for a skiing vacation. Unfortunately I am pre- paid and am experiencing back problems so I am uncertain as to how uncomfortable skiing will be. If it is too painful I may hang up the skis for the flyrod. Anyone have any suggestions for some unfrozen and productive streams in the Killington vicinity that would be worth checking out? Fly patterns and other pertinent information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!!

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The Massachusetts season is open all year.  You should be able to get to the Deerfield river or the Swift river within about an hour to an hour and a half from Killington.  Both are tailwater rivers with catch-and- release areas.  Fish small, slow and deep.   Tight Lines, Gerry Crow

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Question:

I too started using soft hackle wet flies this year and had great success a week ago on brookies on the AuSable on an orange bodied #16. Don Donald Albrecht A bad day fishing is still better than a good day at work!  <  <

Soft Hackle flies can be very very deadly!  I use a couple patterns: one is just like a hares ear nymph without the wingcase but with a sparse collar of partridge hackle…the other is a body of peacock herl with partridge hackle. They seem to work best when fish are chasing emerging caddis. Paul DiConza NY Capital District Angler

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I’ve been having *super* success fishing a gray soft hackle fly lately. What I do is to use a standard wet fly swing with a slow retrieve at the end.  The rainbow trout in my local stream can’t resist them.  Any other thoughts or possible patterns? Thanks, Bill

Lots of thoughts and lots of patterns.  Try the three books by Sylvester Nemes.  My favorite soft hackle is the March Brown Spider – Hare’s Ear lightly dubbed over orange thread with silver rib and brown partridge hackle.   Ross Wilson

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I’ve been having *super* success fishing a gray soft hackle fly lately. What I do is to use a standard wet fly swing with a slow retrieve at the end.  The rainbow trout in my local stream can’t resist them.  Any other thoughts or possible patterns? Thanks, Bill

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I too started using soft hackle wet flies this year and had great success a week ago on brookies on the AuSable on an orange bodied #16. Don Donald Albrecht A bad day fishing is still better than a good day at work!  <  <

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Question:

I’ll be in Arizona at the end of March and was wondering about the flyfishing.  Any info?  Thanks, Ed Parsonage.

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I’ll be visiting Arizona in March and was wondering about the flyfishing. Any suggestions? Thanks, Ed Parsonage

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I’ll be visiting Arizona in March and was wondering about the flyfishing. Any suggestions? Thanks, Ed Parsonage

It depends upon the weather. If the high country thaw has started, try some of the lakes in the White Mountains.  The lower lakes (around Show Low) may be available by then. Martin Hewlett Dept. of MCB Univ. of Arizona Tucson, AZ

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