Been enjoying an eBay catch "To Hell With Fishing" by Ed Zern and H.T. Webster. Thought I’d share a bit of 40’s humor… In one cartoon titled "The Honeymoon", Mr. Webster draws a happy fellow flyfishing in a stream, while his new bride stands on the shore in a lovely dress and hat, her head surrounded by gnats, while she looks a bit confused. Mr Zern comments: "Personally, I don’t get the point of this cartoon. As far as I can see, it’s an ideal honeymoon, and I don’t know what Mr. Webster could be driving at. I spent my honeymoon fishing for small-mouth bass. I had to. The trout season had ended." More wife-torturing tips available upon request. 8^)
Timothy Juvenal
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Been enjoying an eBay catch "To Hell With Fishing" by Ed Zern and H.T. Webster. Thought I’d share a bit of 40’s humor… In one cartoon titled "The Honeymoon", Mr. Webster draws a happy fellow flyfishing in a stream, while his new bride stands on the shore in a lovely dress and hat, her head surrounded by gnats, while she looks a bit confused. Mr Zern comments: "Personally, I don’t get the point of this cartoon. As far as I can see, it’s an ideal honeymoon, and I don’t know what Mr. Webster could be driving at. I spent my honeymoon fishing for small-mouth bass. I had to. The trout season had ended." More wife-torturing tips available upon request. 8^) Timothy Juvenal
Great book. G.Cleveland
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Been enjoying an eBay catch "To Hell With Fishing" by Ed Zern and H.T. Webster. Thought I’d share a bit of 40’s humor… In one cartoon titled "The Honeymoon", Mr. Webster draws a happy fellow flyfishing in a stream, while his new bride stands on the shore in a lovely dress and hat, her head surrounded by gnats, while she looks a bit confused. Mr Zern comments: "Personally, I don’t get the point of this cartoon. As far as I can see, it’s an ideal honeymoon, and I don’t know what Mr. Webster could be driving at. I spent my honeymoon fishing for small-mouth bass. I had to. The trout season had ended." More wife-torturing tips available upon request.
….And what if you should be so unfortunate as to find a lady who is a flyfisher? Worse yet, what if she is a flyfisher AND flytyer AND could give a rat’s rump if the seat is up or down? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 8^) Timothy Juvenal
Valkyrie postulated …And what if you should be so unfortunate as to find a lady who is a flyfisher? Worse yet, what if she is a flyfisher AND flytyer AND could give a rat’s rump if the seat is up or down? —– I have one of those special partners that is both a flyfisher and a fly tyer BUT she would rather that I put the seat down cuz she hates taking a midnight dip in the porcelain jacuzzi…I guess 2 out of 3 ain’t bad. Chris Fanning — got a nice package from Cabelas today, oh goodie…Very impressed with their $9.99 Grizzly No. 1 Saddle.
Count a second here. Severe adversion of midnight dips. 2 for 3!!! Chris Richer – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Valkyrie postulated …And what if you should be so unfortunate as to find a lady who is a flyfisher? Worse yet, what if she is a flyfisher AND flytyer AND could give a rat’s rump if the seat is up or down? —– I have one of those special partners that is both a flyfisher and a fly tyer BUT she would rather that I put the seat down cuz she hates taking a midnight dip in the porcelain jacuzzi…I guess 2 out of 3 ain’t bad. Chris Fanning — got a nice package from Cabelas today, oh goodie…Very impressed with their $9.99 Grizzly No. 1 Saddle.
"Chris Richer" wrote… Count a second here. Severe adversion of midnight dips. 2 for 3!!!
I really must object to this implication that the fair sex is not clever enough to put the seat down when neccasary. I always leave the seat up, and have yet to fail to put it down when I’ve needed it in that postion. I refuse to believe that the ladies are incapable of making the same judgement call. No, gentlemen, it’s not really about women being prone to falling into the toilet. They’re no more likely to fall in than you or I, and in fact, are probably less likely. No, this is nothing more than a convienient opportunity to tell you what to do, and one of the few instances when a woman is actually successful at that endeavor. We must be strong, men! We must resist if we are to prevail in the war between men and women! We must _insist_ that they leave the seat up! For the dignity of all mankind! Timothy Juvenal
"Valkyrie" wrote … ….And what if you should be so unfortunate as to find a lady who is a flyfisher? Worse yet, what if she is a flyfisher AND flytyer AND could give a rat’s rump if the seat is up or down?
Yes, I admit it would be hard to be strong under circumstances as extreme as those. Especially if she isn’t always asking silly questions like "What’s *wrong* with you?!", and she can supply a good answer to a simple question like"What’s the big deal?", and she doesn’t decide that she doesn’t want to date men anymore after just a few dates, and all that other silly stuff women can be prone to. Timothy Juvenal
We must be strong, men! We must resist if we are to prevail in the war between men and women! We must _insist_ that they leave the seat up! For the dignity of all mankind!
I’ve found that insisting that the seat AND lid remain down works better. It looks better and if you have kids/pets it keeps them out of the toilet seem to work well as reasons for her to do it. Also negates the argument over falling in. You can beat them at their own game. :-) - Ken
….And what if you should be so unfortunate as to find a lady who is a flyfisher? Worse yet, what if she is a flyfisher AND flytyer AND could give a rat’s rump if the seat is up or down?
And a masseuse. Don’t forget that. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/
I’ve found that insisting that the seat AND lid remain down works better. It looks better and if you have kids/pets it keeps them out of the toilet seem to work well as reasons for her to do it.
I use the same argument in reverse. What if the dogs get thirsty? It works for me, and it works for them. 
— visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/
Stand at the greeting card rack checking out all the romance cards. Buy one and let her see you pay for it. When you’re alone, throw it away. George Gehrke
….And what if you should be so unfortunate as to find a lady who is a flyfisher? Worse yet, what if she is a flyfisher AND flytyer AND could give a rat’s rump if the seat is up or down? And a masseuse. Don’t forget that.
Shoot, I only got two out of the four. Charlie, who ties her flies AND leaves the seat down
"rw" wrote… What if the dogs get thirsty?
So, a dog walks into a bar and says to the bartender, "It’s my birthday! Do I get a free drink?" And the bartender says, "Sure, the toilet’s down the hall!" Timothy Juvenal
"rw" wrote… What if the dogs get thirsty? So, a dog walks into a bar and says to the bartender, "It’s my birthday! Do I get a free drink?" And the bartender says, "Sure, the toilet’s down the hall!"
T’ain’t nothin’ til ya hear about how RW’s dog mistook a nude sun-worshipper for a walking sausage factory. Mu
Glad to see that this appetizing (if OT) title has had so many bites . . . Lazarus — Lazarus Cooke
A true classic is A Fly Fisher’s Life by Charles Ritz. Now out of print although you may pick up a copy in second hand bookshops. Ritz, of Ritz hotels fame, a Frenchman by birth spent many years fishing in USA as well as Europe. His US fishing friends included A J McClane and Ernest Hemingway. These two latter wrote the Introduction and Foreword respectively to the 1954 printing of the book as a translation from the French. Published in US by Henry Holt and Company, New York, 1960. Ritz commenced his fly fishing life in 1912. Ritz became famous for his designs of bamboo rods, believed to be the first time some technical application was applied to such design. I picked up my copy of the book at David Ishii bookseller, 212 First Ave Sth, Seattle, phone 206 622 4719 a few years ago when visiting USA. There may be another copy available. Probably quite expensive now [I considered it quite expensive then!!]. Regards — Peter Sealy Victoria, Australia Any speling errors in this document are due to software bugs
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -A true classic is A Fly Fisher’s Life by Charles Ritz. Now out of print although you may pick up a copy in second hand bookshops. Ritz, of Ritz hotels fame, a Frenchman by birth spent many years fishing in USA as well as Europe. His US fishing friends included A J McClane and Ernest Hemingway. These two latter wrote the Introduction and Foreword respectively to the 1954 printing of the book as a translation from the French. Published in US by Henry Holt and Company, New York, 1960. Ritz commenced his fly fishing life in 1912. Ritz became famous for his designs of bamboo rods, believed to be the first time some technical application was applied to such design. I picked up my copy of the book at David Ishii bookseller, 212 First Ave Sth, Seattle, phone 206 622 4719 a few years ago when visiting USA. There may be another copy available. Probably quite expensive now [I considered it quite expensive then!!]. Regards — Peter Sealy Victoria, Australia
Actually the book has gone through so many printings that it is fairly easy to find in one form or another. Some forms very expensive. I think it might still be in print. Interesting to hear someone from Australia mention David Ishii. What a neat little bookstore he has. I haven’t been up there in a while but used to make it a point to stop in every time I was in Seattle. — Clyde Drury Black Bass Book Collector http://hometown.aol.com/BassBks/index3.html
If you want to read a great book I recommend " Earth Is Enough " by Harry Middleton or any other book by him .His books are not just about flyfishing but also life in general . I guarantee you will like them but try not to get too hooked , one of his books " The Starlight Creek Angling Society " is out of print and cost $500 . Try " On The Spline Of Time " also
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A true classic is A Fly Fisher’s Life by Charles Ritz. Now out of print although you may pick up a copy in second hand bookshops. Ritz, of Ritz hotels fame, a Frenchman by birth spent many years fishing in USA as well as Europe. His US fishing friends included A J McClane and Ernest Hemingway. These two latter wrote the Introduction and Foreword respectively to the 1954 printing of the book as a translation from the French. Published in US by Henry Holt and Company, New York, 1960. Ritz commenced his fly fishing life in 1912. Ritz became famous for his designs of bamboo rods, believed to be the first time some technical application was applied to such design. I picked up my copy of the book at David Ishii bookseller, 212 First Ave Sth, Seattle, phone 206 622 4719 a few years ago when visiting USA. There may be another copy available. Probably quite expensive now [I considered it quite expensive then!!]. Regards — Peter Sealy Victoria, Australia Actually the book has gone through so many printings that it is fairly easy to find in one form or another. Some forms very expensive. I think it might still be in print. Interesting to hear someone from Australia mention David Ishii. What a neat little bookstore he has. I haven’t been up there in a while but used to make it a point to stop in every time I was in Seattle. — Clyde Drury Black Bass Book Collector http://hometown.aol.com/BassBks/index3.html
Being a new guy here, I don’t know shit…(get out the keyboard soap) but evidently Mikey must live in a coutry where they charge by the minute for phones and access….without experimenting until my brain slips a cog (happens often-sorry) wouldn’t it be possible to download this newsgroup on a regular basis, zip the files and e-mail them to him?? wouldn’t that save him a few bucks (400 is much more than a few)….?
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Left for the following reasons (in order): 1. Spam 2. Indian Rights 3. USA vs. Brits 4. Nasty emails vis-a-vis #2 & 3 5. #1-3 cost him over $400 last month. Says he doubts that he will return. — Ken Fortenberry I started the USA vs Brits thread as an attempt to lighten the mood of the posts that were being made at that particular time.
Actually, a Brit named Tony Deacon started the whole thing (not that particular thread) with a totally gratuitous insult of American culture. When someone insults a country on Usenet you can expect angry replies, and rightly so. The "Indian Rights" thing started when someone posted a claim that commercial fishing, not the Lower Snake dams, was responsible for the decline of the Snake River salmon, and that morphed into Indian Rights. A thread that to one person is nothing but off-topic rants might be very interesting to someone else. I found the Indian Rights thread to have value, once you got past the race baiting, but I can see why a European might get bored by it. Some Europeans seem miffed that Usenet is dominated by Yanks. Too bad. Let them post some European-specific stuff. I won’t mind at all. I thought Mike Connor changed his telephone to a flat-rate service. Why the $400? It’s really no one’s responsibility in ROFF to keep Mike’s or anyone else’s Usenet-related bills down. Hell, we can reduce them to nearly zero by just shutting down the whole thing. I hope MC returns. I liked some of his doggerel verse and his prose fiction, he obviously knows a lot about many kinds of fishing, he added a welcome and needed European perspective to ROFF, and he’s generally a very smart and creative person. But I’m not going to lose any sleep over it. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)
Actually, a Brit named Tony Deacon started the whole thing (not that particular thread) with a totally gratuitous insult of American culture.
The fact of the matter is it started off as a joke. Tony and I were joking around,at least that was the impression that I got. Some people took this a little too serious and then the thread ended up with threats. I think that is what really pissed Mike off. Believe me RW, I am not losing any sleep over this either. It does bother me because Mike was a valuable source of knowledge. I was constantly amazed at the amount of info that man had locked in his brain housing group. The part that I liked most was that he didn’t try and make you feel stupid about it either. I sent Mike an email once expressing my appreciation for his help on several things I had questions with. Mike would typically point me in the direction so that I could research the topic on my own and give me a few pointers of his own. It was always short, helpful and contributed greatly to my own knowledge base. I am not saying that Mike C was the only person with lots of knowledge on a broad variety of topics, but he was a class act that is going to be missed by those who ask lots of questions around here. Not to mention his writings….. Warren
It won’t be the same as having him on ROFF, but he does write a column and have a chat group on "Fly Anglers on Line" http://www.flyanglersonline.com/ Ernie Harrison See Ernie’s Fly-Fishing Stuff: http://home.pacbell.net/ernie2 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Actually, a Brit named Tony Deacon started the whole thing (not that particular thread) with a totally gratuitous insult of American culture. The fact of the matter is it started off as a joke. Tony and I were joking around,at least that was the impression that I got. Some people took this a little too serious and then the thread ended up with threats. I think that is what really pissed Mike off. Believe me RW, I am not losing any sleep over this either. It does bother me because Mike was a valuable source of knowledge. I was constantly amazed at the amount of info that man had locked in his brain housing group. The part that I liked most was that he didn’t try and make you feel stupid about it either. I sent Mike an email once expressing my appreciation for his help on several things I had questions with. Mike would typically point me in the direction so that I could research the topic on my own and give me a few pointers of his own. It was always short, helpful and contributed greatly to my own knowledge base. I am not saying that Mike C was the only person with lots of knowledge on a broad variety of topics, but he was a class act that is going to be missed by those who ask lots of questions around here. Not to mention his writings….. Warren
have i missed something here? where the hell has connor gone? vacation? work? pissed? under arrest? wayno
have i missed something here? where the hell has connor gone? vacation? work? pissed? under arrest?
Left for the following reasons (in order): 1. Spam 2. Indian Rights 3. USA vs. Brits 4. Nasty emails vis-a-vis #2 & 3 5. #1-3 cost him over $400 last month. Says he doubts that he will return. — Ken Fortenberry Illini 3 – Tar Heels 1
Says he doubts that he will return. — Ken Fortenberry
What a shame. One of the more enjoyable personalities on ROFF, IMO. Always enjoyed his stories. Keith Brewster
Left for the following reasons (in order): 1. Spam 2. Indian Rights 3. USA vs. Brits 4. Nasty emails vis-a-vis #2 & 3 5. #1-3 cost him over $400 last month. Says he doubts that he will return. — Ken Fortenberry
I started the USA vs Brits thread as an attempt to lighten the mood of the posts that were being made at that particular time. I in no way meant to hurt anybody’s feelings and if you look at the original post I think that is evident. Mike was usually the first one that responded to me when I would post a question and I will surely miss him if he is truly gone. Mike, if you were offended in any way by my USA vs Brit post, I apologize. Tim
Could it possibly be that he is busy with personal things? He’ll be back. He’s just busy. Mike is not the type of man that would go away in a snit without saying good-bye. I miss him but will not help to clutter up his mail box by e-mailing him. Just give him a little room, folks. Dave LaCourse
He told me the same in an email over the weekend. I surmised that he is very busy as well, but the tone of his message didn’t leave me with the impression that he was interested in returning to this happy band. Tom — Tom Brown The Signal Group Wake Forest, NC It makes no difference what men think of war, said the judge. War endures. As well ask men what they think of stone. War was always here. Before man was, war waited for him. The ultimate trade awaiting the ultimate practitioner. Cormac McCarthy, Blood Meridian – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Left for the following reasons (in order): 1. Spam 2. Indian Rights 3. USA vs. Brits 4. Nasty emails vis-a-vis #2 & 3 5. #1-3 cost him over $400 last month. Says he doubts that he will return. — Ken Fortenberry Illini 3 – Tar Heels 1
He told me the same in an email over the weekend. I surmised that he is very busy as well, but the tone of his message didn’t leave me with the impression that he was interested in returning to this happy band.
What a whimp. He leaves, we grieves, and goze limp. He didn’t say bye… I wonder why… Not gonna cry… just wonder why. Your pal, — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"
… He didn’t say bye… I wonder why…
He’s a class act, that’s why. If one decides to filter another poster or unsubscribe from a newsgroup one simply does so. No whiny recriminations, wounded, emotional farewells or parting shots necessary or appropriate. Mike’s last post was titled "Guilty". It was eloquent, and as appropriate a farewell as I’ve seen. — Ken Fortenberry
What a whimp. He leaves, we grieves, and goze limp. He didn’t say bye… I wonder why… Not gonna cry… just wonder why. Your pal, "Guilt replaced the creel…"
Mike evidently never considered it necessary to remind anyone on this group that he was "Your pal," and he was right. Your constant reminder notwithstanding I suspect few will miss you as much as we will Mike. "Guilt debased the meal…"
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -What a whimp. He leaves, we grieves, and goze limp. He didn’t say bye… I wonder why… Not gonna cry… just wonder why. Your pal, — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"
He did say bye, He did say why, He just didn’t serve it up Like yesterday’s pie. Peter
He didn’t say bye…
I think it was when you were off sulking the latest time. — Charlie…
Good one Charlie Ernie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – He didn’t say bye… I think it was when you were off sulking the latest time. — Charlie…
EEEHH GADS! Come back Mikey – all other verse is worthless without ye! RalphH
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What a whimp. He leaves, we grieves, and goze limp. He didn’t say bye… I wonder why… Not gonna cry… just wonder why. Your pal, — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…" He did say bye, He did say why, He just didn’t serve it up Like yesterday’s pie. Peter
If it is indeed true that Mike has left for the reasons listed below, then I’m inclined to think that the whole "ROFF is Darwinian" concept isn’t as great as some have made it out to be. I for one thought Mike’s posts were a rare species worth protecting from extinction. Steve Zimmerman
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Left for the following reasons (in order): 1. Spam 2. Indian Rights 3. USA vs. Brits 4. Nasty emails vis-a-vis #2 & 3 5. #1-3 cost him over $400 last month. Says he doubts that he will return.
Bullseye! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What a whimp. He leaves, we grieves, and goze limp. He didn’t say bye… I wonder why… Not gonna cry… just wonder why. Your pal, "Guilt replaced the creel…" Mike evidently never considered it necessary to remind anyone on this group that he was "Your pal," and he was right. Your constant reminder notwithstanding I suspect few will miss you as much as we will Mike. "Guilt debased the meal…"
any body know of some good fishing in north west colorado?
Try fishing at Yampacola res., nice rainbows and good fly country.
—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– While in non-compliance with local decency ordinances the world over, any body know of some good fishing in north west colorado?
It’s more west-central, but the Black Canyon of the Gunnison River in Gunnison and Montrose counties is pretty nice. The fish are a little temperamental, though. Some days you can catch anything with an Adams and a mediocre presentation, and other days perfect presentation and a long and thin leader and perfect hatch matching will leave you skunked. The fishing is great. It’s the catching that’s sometimes a little iffy. —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—– Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBNu3zDpdiUzdLFqlpAQGlegf+L+2nnxmFnkfV8hwx9n2681hZcAvgSQn6 wDwh2ghZoQtGVvZHlYsONMMY0gOfNb52dgwd3uUi9ohZtyc0d9XIue3FHSa0vBa5 Sk4voCNo6BaPfMukXKUK9NiLaFjWZLF75rka/1pZqZnQqCm4ogPT5RJdJKiou+uv ONNOFeIuWLhayy44Ck9uziAlwtqJcWaoHdFdQQCY/Zwv5fBka+/MRhNchKTx+8T4 0Bh80zzGXFSYvBQPTww9eivH0PmecZhAwdhAT0EzvcDYry2cLynZgBPdpbLOr00x IATrJ1eBVpU9awukFCu4nFIcHXkrznq37t65RmbjE1WZkiU7p4+LIQ== =ifOk —–END PGP SIGNATURE—– Mike S. Medintz, http://www.grapevine.net/~medintz "I can try to get used to what she likes, but if I hear that ‘From This Moment’ song one more time I’m-a gonna go postal." "I love Topeka," by T.J.J. Williams
If I found myself in northwest Colorado I extend my travels a bit further to northeast Utah…The Green Rive & Flaming Gorge. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – any body know of some good fishing in north west colorado?
If I found myself in northwest Colorado I extend my travels a bit further to northeast Utah…The Green Rive & Flaming Gorge.
Good advice if you want one of the crowded "hot spots." NW Colorado is a big area. If you’re going to the Grand Junction area, Grand Mesa is a beautiful area with lots of streams and natural lakes. Willi
I have a web page devoted to SouthWest Ohio Fishing. I would appreciate anyone interested in the area to take a look at it and let me know if it is helpful to them. Thanks, Rich
What’s the address? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a web page devoted to SouthWest Ohio Fishing. I would appreciate anyone interested in the area to take a look at it and let me know if it is helpful to them. Thanks, Rich
Sorry, Everyone. The address is: http://www.wright.edu/~burns.8 Again, very sorry I forgot the most important part. Rich
| I have a web page devoted to SouthWest Ohio Fishing. I would appreciate | anyone interested in the area to take a look at it and let me know if it | is helpful to them. | Thanks, | Rich Rich, We’d be more likely to visit your page if you’d post the URL! Best regards, — Bill To join the Fly Fishing / Fly Tying mailing list Send a Blank E-Mail to:
Thanks Dan and all who responded to my inquiry. I have an email in (which preceded my opening of this thread by 10 days, and remains unanswered) to ODFW, and we willsee what they say. If I do not hear from them shortly, I will revert to primitive technology and use the telephone, if I can find it amongst all these damn feathers…:) Thanks Ken, too.. If you hear from the Oregon agency folks via email, hope you will let us know here. Tks! Bob
get the lead out! Safe with bismuth and other such as copper, (for now) Schuhfly
Last September, when we honeymooned around Bend, we were fishing the Fall and the Metolius and were told by other anglers (well, one in each place, actually..) that no lead (ie:split shot, putty, etc.) was permitted in either river. Nor were lead-weighted flies. So, we did not use them. However, I scoured the Oregon regs booklet and could find no such regs specific to either river. We plan to return next month for a week and want to abide by the law, however, we’d also like to be able to fish nymphs in the conventional manner we do here in the east, with lead on the leader, etc. Can anyone clarify this for me? Is it really the law? Additionally, if it is so, does the prohibition extend to the non toxic shots and putties? Any help appreciated.. In return, we promise not to move to Oregon, but reserve the right to visit occasionally…:) Thanks!
I don’t know for sure, but I’ve never heard of it, and I couldn’t find it in the regs either. It might be encouraged, but I don’t think it’s a reg…yet. You still have to not move here though. :-) Later, - Ken — Not speaking for anyone but myself
I know lead is not permitted either (because I’ve been told too!) but if I nymph I use beadheads – pheasant tails,etc. Bill
Last September, when we honeymooned around Bend, we were fishing the Fall and the Metolius and were told by other anglers (well, one in each place, actually..) that no lead (ie:split shot, putty, etc.) was permitted in either river. Nor were lead-weighted flies. So, we did not use them. However, I scoured the Oregon regs booklet and could find no such regs specific to either river. We plan to return next month for a week and want to abide by the law, however, we’d also like to be able to fish nymphs in the conventional manner we do here in the east, with lead on the leader, etc. Can anyone clarify this for me? Is it really the law? Additionally, if it is so, does the prohibition extend to the non toxic shots and putties? Any help appreciated.. In return, we promise not to move to Oregon, but reserve the right to visit occasionally…:) Thanks!
Looking at the 1998 regs: P7: Artificial fly: a hook (weighted or nonweighted) dressed with conventional fly materials only; a fly is not a hook to which sinkers, molded weights or plastic bodies, spinners, spoons, or similar attractors are attached I read this to say that, for example, lead wire wrapped on the hook is OK, but split shot on the line is not. P51: Fall River: Restricted to fly angling only with barbless hooks P52: Metolius River: Restricted to artificial flies and lures downstream from bridge 99. Restricted to artificial flies only upstream from bridge 99. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I know lead is not permitted either (because I’ve been told too!) but if I nymph I use beadheads – pheasant tails,etc. Bill
Hmmm, I know that a lot of fly-fishing people use split-shot around here, I wonder if it’s only an issue in fly-fishing only waters. I’m gonna email somebody at ODFW and ask. If waters are open to artificial flies and lures (Metolius) then I would read that to mean that split-shot is okay. I’ll post whatever response I get. - Ken – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Looking at the 1998 regs: P7: Artificial fly: a hook (weighted or nonweighted) dressed with conventional fly materials only; a fly is not a hook to which sinkers, molded weights or plastic bodies, spinners, spoons, or similar attractors are attached I read this to say that, for example, lead wire wrapped on the hook is OK, but split shot on the line is not. P51: Fall River: Restricted to fly angling only with barbless hooks P52: Metolius River: Restricted to artificial flies and lures downstream from bridge 99. Restricted to artificial flies only upstream from bridge 99. I know lead is not permitted either (because I’ve been told too!) but if I nymph I use beadheads – pheasant tails,etc. Bill
— Not speaking for anyone but myself
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -(RLPPT) writes: Last September, when we honeymooned around Bend, we were fishing the Fall and the Metolius and were told by other anglers (well, one in each place, actually..) that no lead (ie:split shot, putty, etc.) was permitted in either river. Nor were lead-weighted flies. So, we did not use them. However, I scoured the Oregon regs booklet and could find no such regs specific to either river. We plan to return next month for a week and want to abide by the law, however, we’d also like to be able to fish nymphs in the conventional manner we do here in the east, with lead on the leader, etc. Can anyone clarify this for me? Is it really the law? Additionally, if it is so, does the prohibition extend to the non toxic shots and putties? Any help appreciated.. In return, we promise not to move to Oregon, but reserve the right to visit occasionally…:) Thanks!
Hi RLPPT, When I lived in Oregon (76 – 87), lead on the leader was not allowed in any "fly fishing only" waters such as the upper part of the North Umpqua River (don’t know if it’s still designated so). So, you need to check the general regs on "fly fishing only" waters or what defines fly fishing as far as Oregon is concerned. There was no prohibition against lead in the fly, just not allowed on the leader. Story goes this came about because some folks were snagging steelhead and salmon by using huge flies with double hooks and huge chunks of lead on the leader to get around the ff only regs. Part of the Metolius at the time was also designated ff only then, and again you couldn’t use lead on the leader. Fish in this spring creek part of the river (changes as you move downstream) were partial to small flies which were really hard to get down to them without weight. Folks would tie up some larger weighted nymphs (even stoneflies) and run a small PT on a dropper. Fish always took the PT. The Tungsten Beads (much heavier than the normal beads) used as a thorax on a PT make it possible to get down a small fly without the second heavily weighted one. This one is probably worth a call to the Oregon DFW. Good Fishing Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools Mt. Shasta Fly Fishing Schools http://www.thegrid.net/flyfish
3) a downlocking reelseat is easier to install when building the rod yourself…because uplocking reelseat require that you cut a "pocket" into the cork grip for the "cap" (not sure if that is the correct word for the stationary, formed band which holds the forward "foot" of the reel. I’d add to this: 4) A downlocking reelseat leaves less of a rod butt sticking out for your line to get tangled around. HPH
5) A downlocking reelseat is earier to attach a reel to, if the butts down, of course. Gary C. "Lie ? Me ? Never! No, no, no, the truth is far too much fun !" – Captain Hook
… differences between up and downlocking reel seats …
Among those I know, the single biggest deciding factor was that the end-cap on down-locking seats had a tendency to break free (eg, the epoxy wouldn’t hold). Long after they switched, they’d learn to highlite the advantages of up-locking. My own stats are ~40% of my downlocking end caps pop off within 3 years. I usually retrieve the cap off the stream bottom (the reel too), severely scratch the inside of the cap, use a razor on the wood seat, and re-epoxy (avoid the 5 minute expoxies). None of the repaired caps have since fallen off. (—— (~~~~~~ ( (~~~~~~ (—— ~ = roughed up interior walls of cap. use backside of a exacto razor tip. / = barb-like gouges into the wood reel seat. most reel seat wood is extremely hard, so cutting at an angle of 45 degrees to a depth of ~1/32" is all you’ll need. I personally prefer downlocking on trout rods, in part because I gain ~6" rod length in casting because my hand can grasp near the base of the cork. Thomas Gilg
I’m thinking of building a fly rod (my first), which would probably be a five weight trout rod. Could anyone please illuminate the differences between up and downlocking reel seats for such a rod? Is one easier to work with than the other? I’ve noticed that all the commerical rods seem to use uplocking reel seats. Does anyone know why? Thanks in advance.
If you are using a cigar handle, I don’t think it matters too much. If you are using a full or half wells handle, you want uplocking, so that the reel is as close to your hand as possible. This improves the rod feel, in my less than humble opinion. On the cigar handle, I find that I slide my hand down to the reel, over the reel seat. I use slip ring reel seats when I build these rods. I don’t have any problem with them loosening up. — Andrew Brunette
One other comment about uplocking reel seats. I’ve found that I prefer them because when playing a large fish, it’s nice to have that extra extension (even though it’s small) should you put the reel against your chest. I play larger steelhead and salmon that way using heavier rods…and that’s much of my fishing. When I hook onto a good sized trout, I tend to revert to old habits every so often. If you have an exposed rim, then it’s not a good idea to put it against your clothing. So….that’s one other consideration but only relevant if you have my sometimes bad habit. I’ve got trout rods that are both uplocking and downlocking….but I wouldn’t want my bigger rods to be downlocking. Barry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m thinking of building a fly rod (my first), which would probably be a five weight trout rod. Could anyone please illuminate the differences between up and downlocking reel seats for such a rod? Is one easier to work with than the other? I’ve noticed that all the commerical rods seem to use uplocking reel seats. Does anyone know why? Thanks in advance. Actually, I think you will find the comercial rods pretty well split betweenup locking and downlocking, but not many slide bands. Here are what I generally hear as to the advantages/disadvantages: With uplocking you can get the line tangled around the rod butt easier. With downlocking, your reel gets in the dirt if you put the rod butt on the ground. There may be a better balance with your reel with one or the other. In general, I don’t think there is a big difference either way. Choose what looks and feels the best to you. Lyman Lyman G. Hughes Dallas, TX Ennis, MT
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m thinking of building a fly rod (my first), which would probably be a five weight trout rod. Could anyone please illuminate the differences between up and downlocking reel seats for such a rod? Is one easier to work with than the other? I’ve noticed that all the commerical rods seem to use uplocking reel seats. Does anyone know why? Thanks in advance. If you are using a cigar handle, I don’t think it matters too much. If you are using a full or half wells handle, you want uplocking, so that the reel is as close to your hand as possible. This improves the rod feel, in my less than humble opinion. On the cigar handle, I find that I slide my hand down to the reel, over the reel seat. I use slip ring reel seats when I build these rods. I don’t have any problem with them loosening up. — Andrew Brunette
from a usability (as opposed to construction of the rod) perspective: downlocked reels also seem to have a slightly clock pendulum effect – which makes the rod tip waver around a bit – on a light rod this matters a little more since you’ll be wanting to do delicate, accurate casting. hands do slide down to them too
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (Rick Fletcher) writes: To be serious, I’m interested in your reasons for rule 3. If you could describe what works best, I might be able to make up some chemical reason for your preference. — "The scientist formerly known as Rick" T. Rick Fletcher – http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Don’t know the compositional difference, but the epoxy I use for rod building is much stronger than the 5 min stuff. I believe the stuff is made by Flex-Coat, but I am not sure. Anyway, I did some simple tests and the 5min ranked lowest among the 3 I tried cheers, -tgades
If you’re looking for the strongest epoxies for a given application, you might want to contact either Minnesota Mining (3M) Commercial Adhesives or ITW adhesives of Danvers, MA. Both companies are listed in the Thomas Register and 3M has a full catalog listing there.
I’m sorry Metaphacts, but tell that to my shoulder after hours of casting with a tip heavy rod. Static balancing the rod makes a big difference in sensitivity and in reducing fatigue. Peter – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In fact I do get it, I was trying to simplify. Obviously, the balance point chanes with the amount of line out of reel, as well as the line through guides, and yes I am refering to the static balance point. Static balancing a rod/reel combo means nothing to the casting stroke. Ever. . The point is some rods are tip heavier then others, If you don’t believe that, just go check some blanks at your local shop. That does not make them necessarily ‘bad’ rods. I have an rpl 490-4 that I love but is tip heavier then most. Generally I find 4 piece rods to fall into this catagory quite often. It’s a personal thing. The rod you describe is one I returned after fishing it. Absolutely hated the inability to work tough situations (spring creek from 30 feet or less). The rod I chose instead is a dream with a 12ft leader and 15 feet of line out the tip, yet can still heave 70 feet with ease, and accuracy. All with the same line size. That is a balanced rod. BTW, I have a 4 piece rod that is not tip heavy either. My point is that relative to the right rod choice for your casting style and fishing needs, uplocking vs downlocking is trivial. When nyphing, which is what I do alot with this rod, with line out , the balance point (down locking) is in a more desirable place then with the reel moved further up the blank (uplocking), which then shifts the balance point yet closer to the tip, making the rod less pleasing, more tiring to fish on a long 10 hr day. Subtle, yet noticable. I suggest taping your reel (with line out and also with line on reel), to differenet positions at rear of blank to determine most comfortable balance point for you (static and kinetic). then find a reel seat that places the reel roughly in that postition. After having said all that, the #1 reason I use downlocking seets is to squeeze an extra inch or two out of ’shorter’ rods, when I use them to nymph. Interesting. I too hold the reel when nymphing with my short rod in a difficult situation. But then my shortest rod is an 8′ 2 wt. Everything else is 9′. The real irony in this is that the stuff Orvis is doing in their Tridents is a more sensible way to balance an overly tip heavy rod. Adding mass in the grip at the hand balances the tip without the increased inertia of adding mass well away from the pivot point. Of course, because the weight is close to the pivot point, it will have to be greater than if you hung it out 6-8 inches behind it. Choosing the material thay have to dampen rod vibrations may or may not be a bonus, depending on how much of the input is damped out along with the excessive vibration. Seems to me like the long way home so to speak. Better to spend a lot more time picking the right blank (by casting finished rods w/ line, leader, and fly) than to be so concerned with reel seats. The right fishing tool is always better, regardless of the reel seat. Cheers, gp
Hi all, Out here in California we have no down locking reel seats to speaks of. I guess most of the fly fishers out here prefer uplocks. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY
No Winstons in California??? I knew that state was weird. Just Kidding. Bob
: Hi all, : Out here in California we have no down locking reel seats to speaks of. : I guess most of the fly fishers out here prefer uplocks.
I’ve got a different take on down- and up-locking reel seats. If you think of a pendulum, the reel rides farther back of your hand with a down-locking seat. This little 1/2-1" difference can help balance the rod a little more. There’s nothing worse than a top-heavy rod. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Could anyone please illuminate the differences between up and downlocking reel seats for such a rod? Is one easier to work with than the other? I’ve noticed that all the commerical rods seem to use uplocking reel seats. Does anyone know why?
THE REAL REASON FOR UPLOCKING REEL SEATS: (It’s got nothing to do with center of balance) OK, suppose you have a downlocking real seat. You screw the locking band down tight. This forces the reel seat down into the cap, which is attached to the reel seat… how? If it is an all-aluminum seat, it’s probably spot-welded. If you have a wooden insert, it’s probably epoxied on. So one day you are out fishing, waist deep in a fast riffle. You notice that your reel feels a little loose, so you tighten the locking band down a little tighter, and then the cap pops off and disappears downstream, never to be seen again. You make a grab for your reel, but you are too slow and it plummets to the bottom (if you’re lucky; if your drag is set loose and the current is fast, the reel sails off downstream until all of the line and backing are peeled off.) This could happen to you. (It happened to me…) The two morals of the story: 1. Never buy another rod with a downlocking reel seat. With an uplocking seat, the stress is on the threaded sleeve on the end of the reel seat, which at least has a larger glueing surface, so is less likely come adrift. 2. Never leave the house without a roll of black electricians tape. A few turns of black tape will hold your reel onto that broken reel seat until you can get it fixed. In fact, you may find that the tape seems to hold the reel on more solidly than the reel seat did, and not bother to get it fixed. — Kevin Vang Dept. of Mathematics Minot State University Minot, ND 58707
: And to that I would add: : 3. Never buy a rod from someone who uses 5 minute epoxy to glue up a : reel seat. Geez Phil, what do you suggest? Should we hold out for the 10 minute stuff or go all the way to 2 hours? To be serious, I’m interested in your reasons for rule 3. If you could describe what works best, I might be able to make up some chemical reason for your preference. — "The scientist formerly known as Rick" T. Rick Fletcher – http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry | That’s Idaho, not Iowa. | ad hominem University of Idaho | Upper Left Hand Corner. | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343 | No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem
In fact I do get it, I was trying to simplify. Obviously, the balance point chanes with the amount of line out of reel, as well as the line through guides, and yes I am refering to the static balance point.
Static balancing a rod/reel combo means nothing to the casting stroke. Ever. . The point is some rods are tip heavier then others, If you don’t believe that, just go check some blanks at your local shop. That does not make them necessarily ‘bad’ rods. I have an rpl 490-4 that I love but is tip heavier then most. Generally I find 4 piece rods to fall into this catagory quite often.
It’s a personal thing. The rod you describe is one I returned after fishing it. Absolutely hated the inability to work tough situations (spring creek from 30 feet or less). The rod I chose instead is a dream with a 12ft leader and 15 feet of line out the tip, yet can still heave 70 feet with ease, and accuracy. All with the same line size. That is a balanced rod. BTW, I have a 4 piece rod that is not tip heavy either. My point is that relative to the right rod choice for your casting style and fishing needs, uplocking vs downlocking is trivial. When nyphing, which is what I do alot with this rod, with line out , the balance point (down locking) is in a more desirable place then with the reel moved further up the blank (uplocking), which then shifts the balance point yet closer to the tip, making the rod less pleasing, more tiring to fish on a long 10 hr day. Subtle, yet noticable. I suggest taping your reel (with line out and also with line on reel), to differenet positions at rear of blank to determine most comfortable balance point for you (static and kinetic). then find a reel seat that places the reel roughly in that postition. After having said all that, the #1 reason I use downlocking seets is to squeeze an extra inch or two out of ’shorter’ rods, when I use them to nymph.
Interesting. I too hold the reel when nymphing with my short rod in a difficult situation. But then my shortest rod is an 8′ 2 wt. Everything else is 9′. The real irony in this is that the stuff Orvis is doing in their Tridents is a more sensible way to balance an overly tip heavy rod. Adding mass in the grip at the hand balances the tip without the increased inertia of adding mass well away from the pivot point. Of course, because the weight is close to the pivot point, it will have to be greater than if you hung it out 6-8 inches behind it. Choosing the material thay have to dampen rod vibrations may or may not be a bonus, depending on how much of the input is damped out along with the excessive vibration. Seems to me like the long way home so to speak. Better to spend a lot more time picking the right blank (by casting finished rods w/ line, leader, and fly) than to be so concerned with reel seats. The right fishing tool is always better, regardless of the reel seat. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Cheers, gp
Downlocking reel seats hold the reel away from your hand and the centre of rotation of the rod while casting. This increases the momentum and makes it harder to stop the rod on the back and forward casting strokes. Uplocking reel seats move the mass the reel towards the centre of the palm and reduce the momentum. Making it easier to accelerate and deccelerate the rod during casting. Jon – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – of a pendulum, the reel rides farther back of your hand with a down-locking seat. This little 1/2-1" difference can help balance the rod a little more. There’s nothing worse than a top-heavy rod. Could anyone please illuminate the differences between up and downlocking reel seats for such a rod? Is one easier to work with than the other? I’ve noticed that all the commerical rods seem to use uplocking reel seats. Does anyone know why?
I’ve got a different take on down- and up-locking reel seats. If you think of a pendulum, the reel rides farther back of your hand with a down-locking seat. This little 1/2-1" difference can help balance the rod a little more. There’s nothing worse than a top-heavy rod.
That’s not balance. A balanced outfit will have a minimum amount of weight as close to the casting hand as possible. Now you know why Vince Marinaro loved the Orvis CFO. It was the lightest reel available at the time.
I think the point being made is that in many cases you need a ‘heavier’ reel to balance the rod. So when assembled, balance point is somewhere in top third of grip. By using a downlocking seat, the reel is moved further back, facilitating the use of a lighter reel while still keeping balance point in the top third of the grip…get it? Cheers, gp – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve got a different take on down- and up-locking reel seats. If you think of a pendulum, the reel rides farther back of your hand with a down-locking seat. This little 1/2-1" difference can help balance the rod a little more. There’s nothing worse than a top-heavy rod. That’s not balance. A balanced outfit will have a minimum amount of weight as close to the casting hand as possible. Now you know why Vince Marinaro loved the Orvis CFO. It was the lightest reel available at the time.
I think the point being made is that in many cases you need a ‘heavier’ reel to balance the rod. So when assembled, balance point is somewhere in top third of grip. By using a downlocking seat, the reel is moved further back, facilitating the use of a lighter reel while still keeping balance point in the top third of the grip…get it? Cheers, gp
Uh no. I don’t think you do get it. What you are speaking of is static balance. It is totally irrelevant. As soon as line is out and you are trying to load the rod, you have moved the balance point. Since the amount of weight between the reel and the tip vary with line weight, taper, place in the line taper, and even the amount of line you have off the reel at your feet at the time, the balance point you describe changes with every cast. If you want the best control of the rod, remove the reel and let the line lay in coils at your feet. Cast with no reel at all. Start, stop, change of direction, and all manner of casting become more precise than with any reel, light or heavy. Adding weight only takes away from the precision, so just pick what you like. Tip heavy rods that you are trying to "balance" with a heavy reel are just that, tip heavy. No matter whose name is on them, they’re probably not very good fishing tools. However, by loading some of the newer technology rods with a very heavy reel, you can damp out some of the undesirable rod vibration that occur in starting, stopping, and changing direction. But a better idea might be to buy a rod that doesn’t require such damping in the first place. As for uplocking and downlocking, there have been a number of preferences expressed. I own them both. Unless you are custom ordering a rod, you might want to choose the rod before you worry about which way the reel seat works.
In fact I do get it, I was trying to simplify. Obviously, the balance point chanes with the amount of line out of reel, as well as the line through guides, and yes I am refering to the static balance point. . The point is some rods are tip heavier then others, If you don’t believe that, just go check some blanks at your local shop. That does not make them necessarily ‘bad’ rods. I have an rpl 490-4 that I love but is tip heavier then most. Generally I find 4 piece rods to fall into this catagory quite often. When nyphing, which is what I do alot with this rod, with line out , the balance point (down locking) is in a more desirable place then with the reel moved further up the blank (uplocking), which then shifts the balance point yet closer to the tip, making the rod less pleasing, more tiring to fish on a long 10 hr day. Subtle, yet noticable. I suggest taping your reel (with line out and also with line on reel), to differenet positions at rear of blank to determine most comfortable balance point for you (static and kinetic). then find a reel seat that places the reel roughly in that postition. After having said all that, the #1 reason I use downlocking seets is to squeeze an extra inch or two out of ’shorter’ rods, when I use them to nymph. Cheers, gp – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think the point being made is that in many cases you need a ‘heavier’ reel to balance the rod. So when assembled, balance point is somewhere in top third of grip. By using a downlocking seat, the reel is moved further back, facilitating the use of a lighter reel while still keeping balance point in the top third of the grip…get it? Cheers, gp Uh no. I don’t think you do get it. What you are speaking of is static balance. It is totally irrelevant. As soon as line is out and you are trying to load the rod, you have moved the balance point. Since the amount of weight between the reel and the tip vary with line weight, taper, place in the line taper, and even the amount of line you have off the reel at your feet at the time, the balance point you describe changes with every cast. If you want the best control of the rod, remove the reel and let the line lay in coils at your feet. Cast with no reel at all. Start, stop, change of direction, and all manner of casting become more precise than with any reel, light or heavy. Adding weight only takes away from the precision, so just pick what you like. Tip heavy rods that you are trying to "balance" with a heavy reel are just that, tip heavy. No matter whose name is on them, they’re probably not very good fishing tools. However, by loading some of the newer technology rods with a very heavy reel, you can damp out some of the undesirable rod vibration that occur in starting, stopping, and changing direction. But a better idea might be to buy a rod that doesn’t require such damping in the first place. As for uplocking and downlocking, there have been a number of preferences expressed. I own them both. Unless you are custom ordering a rod, you might want to choose the rod before you worry about which way the reel seat works.
The differences… 1) an uplocking reelseat puts the reel closer to your hand which is less tiring (moment = force x length) IF you have a lighter, shorter rod 2) your hand is less likely to loosen the reelseat in an uplocking seat (but brush is more likely to loosen it) 3) a downlocking reelseat is easier to install when building the rod yourself…because uplocking reelseat require that you cut a "pocket" into the cork grip for the "cap" (not sure if that is the correct word for the stationary, formed band which holds the forward "foot" of the reel. Hope this helps. George B. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m thinking of building a fly rod (my first), which would probably be a five weight trout rod. Could anyone please illuminate the differences between up and downlocking reel seats for such a rod? Is one easier to work with than the other? I’ve noticed that all the commerical rods seem to use uplocking reel seats. Does anyone know why? Thanks in advance.
I prefer uplocking. When casting all day my hand tends to work its way down toward the reel. Having the reel at the bottom of the grip stops my hand, and the rod seems to balance better. I have built a couple of rods using slip rings, but don’t recommend them. I have had to fish my reel out of the water too often. Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m thinking of building a fly rod (my first), which would probably be a five weight trout rod. Could anyone please illuminate the differences between up and downlocking reel seats for such a rod? Is one easier to work with than the other? Richard T. Whitney
The differences… 1) an uplocking reelseat puts the reel closer to your hand which is less tiring (moment = force x length) IF you have a lighter, shorter rod 2) your hand is less likely to loosen the reelseat in an uplocking seat (but brush is more likely to loosen it) 3) a downlocking reelseat is easier to install when building the rod yourself…because uplocking reelseat require that you cut a "pocket" into the cork grip for the "cap" (not sure if that is the correct word for the stationary, formed band which holds the forward "foot" of the reel.
I’d add to this: 4) A downlocking reelseat leaves less of a rod butt sticking out for your line to get tangled around. HPH
I’m thinking of building a fly rod (my first), which would probably be a five weight trout rod. Could anyone please illuminate the differences between up and downlocking reel seats for such a rod? Is one easier to work with than the other? I’ve noticed that all the commerical rods seem to use uplocking reel seats. Does anyone know why? Thanks in advance.
I’m thinking of building a fly rod (my first), which would probably be a five weight trout rod. Could anyone please illuminate the differences between up and downlocking reel seats for such a rod? Is one easier to work with than the other? I’ve noticed that all the commerical rods seem to use uplocking reel seats. Does anyone know why? Thanks in advance.
i have an old rod with a down-locking reel seat. i noticed when my grip was low the reel seat would loosen. i haven’t had any problems with this on up-locking reel seats. if you are building your rod, i would recommend an up-locking reel seat, since you can do either. chris
I’m thinking of building a fly rod (my first), which would probably be a five weight trout rod. Could anyone please illuminate the differences between up and downlocking reel seats for such a rod? Is one easier to work with than the other? I’ve noticed that all the commerical rods seem to use uplocking reel seats. Does anyone know why? Thanks in advance.
Actually, I think you will find the comercial rods pretty well split betweenup locking and downlocking, but not many slide bands. Here are what I generally hear as to the advantages/disadvantages: With uplocking you can get the line tangled around the rod butt easier. With downlocking, your reel gets in the dirt if you put the rod butt on the ground. There may be a better balance with your reel with one or the other. In general, I don’t think there is a big difference either way. Choose what looks and feels the best to you. Lyman Lyman G. Hughes Dallas, TX Ennis, MT
Hello, Many years ago, after I bought my first rod, an Orvis Far and Fine with downlocking reel seat, I read somewhere that uplocking reel seats are less vulnerable to loosening in use. I have subsequently found by experience that this is true. Evidently, gravity tends to load the locking ring of the uplocking seat thus helping it to stay locked, but it unloads the screw threads of downlocking seats. Regards, Yuji Sakuma – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Actually, I think you will find the comercial rods pretty well split betweenup locking and downlocking, but not many slide bands. Here are what I generally hear as to the advantages/disadvantages: With uplocking you can get the line tangled around the rod butt easier. With downlocking, your reel gets in the dirt if you put the rod butt on the ground. There may be a better balance with your reel with one or the other. In general, I don’t think there is a big difference either way. Choose what looks and feels the best to you. Lyman Lyman G. Hughes Dallas, TX Ennis, MT
GRAND CANYON TRIP REPORT (a fictitious account)
Nicely written/related. Reading your account makes me yearn for the Canyon. Hmmmm, wait 17 years, pay $700 plus in fees and risk the no-mercy permit system, or go now, avoid the inane bureaucracy and risk $3000-4000 Happy Boating, Chris Donohue WSU – Pullman, WA "I used up all my sick days, so I’m calling in dead." – Anonymous
GRAND CANYON TRIP REPORT (a fictitious account)
Great story; what an adventure! But, if the following is true: If one is to plan a clandestined run of the Canyon, best to do it during the off-season when not many people are likely to be encountered. And of course, don’t get caught. I hear the fine for running the Canyon without a permit is in the $3000-4000 range!!! WOWWW!
why not just get a "cancellation permit" and run the river legal? Are there not plenty of open slots off season? — Chris
GRAND CANYON TRIP REPORT (a fictitious account)
Hummm!!! "Fictitious account"???? Sounds fishy to me. A few months ago Rocky wants to know from this group how to avoid rangers with radios on the Grand and now this story??!!!? :-)
| GRAND CANYON TRIP REPORT (a fictitious account) | | | Hummm!!! "Fictitious account"???? Sounds fishy to me. A few months ago | Rocky wants to know from this group how to avoid rangers with radios on | the Grand and now this story??!!!? :-) He was prob’ly just researchin’ the story just like any other fiction writer would. Of course, perhaps there was _other_ research involved in ensuring the story had dramatic impact and audience appeal with a feeling of truth. Let’s see what other tales Rocky comes up with. SYITP (see you in the pool) Ken
why not just get a "cancellation permit" and run the river legal? Are there not plenty of open slots off season? — Chris
Actually I tried calling over 40 times last fall and didn’t get a cancellation. They can be had, but it’s getting tougher and tougher to get them. I don’t think it’s any easier getting cancellations in winter than in other months, because they reserve so few for the off-season anyway. -Rocky
What would the probablity of success be? ;-
What would the probablity of success be? ;-
Probability best if you go November or December. Good if you go January or February, or October. Next time I hear Joe plans on going in October because there’s no motorized rafts permitted that month and the weather is still pretty warm (highs 80s). -Rocky
: why not just get a "cancellation permit" and run the river legal? : Actually I tried calling over 40 times last fall and didn’t get a ^ : cancellation. : -Rocky Ummm, don’t you mean ‘Joe’ called? Steve — Steve Cramer Test Scoring & Reporting Services Sometimes you never can University of Georgia always tell what you Athens, GA 30602-5593 least expect the most.
: why not just get a "cancellation permit" and run the river legal? : Actually I tried calling over 40 times last fall and didn’t get a ^ : cancellation. : -Rocky Ummm, don’t you mean ‘Joe’ called? Steve —
Oh, NO, Rocky didn’t mean "I" as in the first person. He meant "I" as in an *initial*. Another initial that Joe uses is "G". Isn’t that right, Rocky? Jackie _ _ _ _ _ \ / / / / \ " " ` ,sSSs,, )w/( ,sSS..)/{) <<.. sSSS_v)/ )<* sSS[(_]___ o o \ o o \ o o ` o o o o GASP! – A forum for Gulf (of Mexico) Area Sea Paddlers http://www.intelenet.net/clubs/gasp/
GRAND CANYON TRIP REPORT (a fictitious account) The Grand Canyon is perhaps the finest river trip in the world. A minimum of 225 miles must be traversed through the canyon to be able to put-in and take-out on roads. The Colorado runs through the National Park in this area, and a permit is required. It is a BIG DEAL. Only approximately 350 private permits are issued per year. If you put your name on the waiting list last year, you go behind 6000 other permit seekers. That translates to 6000/350=17 YEARS before you get your permit!!! Granted, for each permit you can have 20 people and stay in the canyon 14-30 days, but is there a place for the non-wealthy person that wants to go on a shorter trip, alone, or with only one or two others? Should he/she just wait 17 years for such a permit, and then put to waste all those people spots and extra time that the permit allows? For some, this is just too outrageous. Better to become an outlaw and do the run without a permit. Such was the attitude of one adventure seeker I know ("Joe"). Sometime in December, when a week could be taken off, the trip was planned. Carefully -mind you. Timing is critical. No motorized craft are permitted in the canyon from September 15-December 15. One doesn’t want a ranger speeding up behind you and catching you. Such an event happened to me in Canyonlands National Park in 1994 when I was doing a solo trip from Loma to Hite through Cataract Canyon. It would be nice to be able to locate rangers in the canyon to avoid any contact. A CB radio was brought along. At the South Rim, the rangers would not tell Joe what frequency they used. All he got out of them was "the radios don’t work down in the canyon." Perhaps they use special frequencies reserved for law enforcement people. Hence the CB was not taken on the river. How about put-ins? Lees Ferry is the normal spot swarming with rangers, though Joe, having never done the Canyon before, didn’t know what the Lees Ferry area looked like. Instead, he tried to put in 15 miles upstream at Glen Canyon Dam. Upon arrival at Glen Canyon Dam, he noticed that there was no road down to the river there, and the walls are nearly vertical. In the Dam visitor center, a kind woman informed Joe that there was a trail down to the river on river left just below the dam, but it was treacherous and takes about a half hour down. Joe decided that this wasn’t the best idea, so decided to take his chances at Lees Ferry, perhaps launching at night when nobody could see. Joy entered Joe’s heart when the lady informed him that they were releasing 13000-19000 cfs from the dam. He had thought there would only be 8000 cfs in the river (as stated on the Colorado Flow Page). More water = faster travel and funner rapids! Off to Lees Ferry he went, arriving in the afternoon about 2 pm. From the highway, a road several miles long leads down to the river at Lees Ferry. It seemed terribly easy to get down to the river without anybody spotting him. He settled on a spot by the Paria Riffle, just downstream of the Paria River, by some mobile home type areas, but right next to the water. There was a nice large parking area and lots of shrubs/trees that the clandestined activitiy of loading the kayak could be accomplished at. The normal put-in spot could be viewed about a half mile upstream. The plan was to get everything out/off of the truck (the kayak as quickly as possible, since such a sight is a dead give-away), load up everything into the kayak, then drive back up to the little town of Marble Canyon and find somebody to drive the truck to near the take-out – Las Vegas. Joe was thinking of finding a party of two or more going to Las Vegas, and having them leave his truck in the Excaliber (or Luxor) parking lot. Joe would then return to the boat at dusk and launch. At the takeout (Temple Bar on Lake Mead), he would get a lift into Las Vegas, drive back and pick up the kayak. Such was the plan. As he was loading the kayak, a car drove by and then down to the same spot Joe was at. Very apprehensive at first, Joe hid everything that might give away his planned activity and approached the vehicle. The Gods were in Joe’s favor! The vehicle contained three foreigners – an Aussie, an Englishwoman, and an Israeli all in their 20s-early 30s. Joe asked, "Sightseeing?" and so began a productive conversation. The three were staying at the hostel in Page and just mosying around seeing whatever there was to see. Just PERFECT! Out of Joe’s mouth came the plan to run the river and the need for someone to drive his truck to Las Vegas. He offered them $40 if they’d do it. It turns out the Israeli, named Udi, actually was not with the other two, but was just bumming rides from people going around the country. He had to get to LA in the next couple weeks to fly home. After about a half hour of thought, Udi agreed to take the truck. Joe told Udi he’d give him $60 if he went so far as to leave the truck at the take-out (Temple Bar on Lake Mead) instead of Las Vegas, and this he agreed to. Joe planned 7 more days on the river, and told Udi, "you must have the truck at Temple Bar by dusk eight days from now." So Joe took off into the wild, still anxious about a ranger spotting him in the first few miles. Having launched around 3:30 pm the first day, not much distance could be made. The days are short in December (10 hours of light), so every daylight hour is precious. Passing the Navajo Bridge after several miles with no signs of rangers, Joe knew he was out of danger. It grew dark after he had paddled 8 or 9 miles. Badger Creek rapid was run in twilight. The next four miles were quite exciting in the dark. Coming up on Soap Creek he noticed a couple lights. Afraid it might be the law, he avoided contact with the campers, but paddled just past them as the Soap Creek rapid began, pulling over to the side to camp. Paddling though a rapid such as Soap Creek was not smart in the dark – espially never having seen it before. Quickly setting up his tent, he settled in for a fine meal of split-pea soup, bread, and cheese (to be had the next two nights as well), with hot chocolate to top it off. Laying in the sleeping bag, he quickly fell asleep starting to read (around 8 pm). In the night he heard what sounded like people walking around his tent. Waking up at 4 am, he continued to read his recently purchased book by JW Powell, "The Exploration of the Colorado and Its Canyons". In it he read about Powell’s group travelling through Marble Canyon and then reaching the Grand Canyon. He also brought along "Cadillac Desert" which contained an abundance of information on the politics of water control in the West. Before the first sign of light, Joe got up and stalked over to where the other campers were. They must have hiked in, for there was no raft by the river. And there was only one tent, so not very many people were there. He wasn’t worried anymore. He went back and started on a run up Soap Creek Canyon for almost an hour (getting up the canyon probably 2 miles or so before returning). The water had dropped during the night – he’d be paddling on 13000 cfs today. Joe went over to meet the camping couple, who were trying their luck at fishing. He asked if they’d take some video of him going through Soap Creek Rapid, which they obliged him. He was off at 9 am. The boat he paddled was an old fiberglass Phoenix, something of a hybrid sea/whitewater kayak – probably about 90 gallons, 14 ft. It was banged up from other rivers, and had been patched a year ago. It leaked horribly, the outfitting was falling out (in particular a loose right hip pad), but it was fast. Luckily Joe brought a sponge and bilge pump, which he had to use every half hour to remove the inch of water that accumulated on the bottom of the kayak. Such a large boat is not great for playing, but since Joe wasn’t planning on much of that, the Phoenix was an ideal kayak for the journey. If he had one, a nice sea kayak would have been preferred. Paddling most of the time he was on the water, very good time was made on the journey. The second day he made it to Nankoweap (about 42 miles from Soap Creek), passing House Rock Rapid, Stanton’s Cave, and the beautiful Vasey’s Paradise on the way. Initially he had trouble finding Stanton’s Cave, looking up a gully that was actually just upstream of it. Giving up after almost an hour of searching, he continued on paddling, only to spot the cave clearly from the river. It is fenced off inside to help promote the BLACK Bat to roost in there once more. In the side canyons above Nankoweap several deer were spotted among the mesquite bushes. Around mile 40 a group of 5-6 rafts was passed (clearly a private party), though no contact was made. At Nankoweap the guidebook states there is a long rapid (Grand Canyon class 3), but which is really not more than a class one. Joe tried to camp at side canyons with fun hikes that he would do in the morning, and also ones with driftwood that he could build a small fire for warmth with. Such was Nankoweap. Fires are only permitted in the off-season (October through March), and all traces must be removed. Joe didn’t take out the ashes (very minor amounts), but usually threw them in the river. Of course Joe did pack out all solid human waste and trash. The next morning he rose before dawn and started on the run/hike to see the springs a few miles up the canyon, and also the Indian ruins. The stream here is perennial, with fresh, clear, cold water running down it. It all originates up at the springs which are a good hike away. The water seeps out of the ground in several spots up there, and there are many reeds growing around the springs. Going fast, running much of
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GRAND CANYON TRIP REPORT (a fictitious account) <big ol’ snip realated by Rocky Contos Thanks for the great story! Too bad "Joe" is fictictious, sounds like a hell of a paddler!
______DEAR MARTIN: Someone else is going to have to verify this, but I think I remember hearing someone mention that the U-Tube has an unseen dangerous aspect to it . . . but I don’t remember what it was. Possibly, someone else knows what that dangerous design feature is or if it groundless. George — MZ
Hi George As I recall there was a magazine article in Fly Fisherman in the late 1980’s in which tests were done in a swimming pool with various float tubes. The U Tube seems to be easier to tip over as I remember what I read. Those of you on this group with a better memory than me may know exactly which magazine and when. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 materials catalog) http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – At one time, I did some product testing for the Creek Company before they moved to their present location. I’ve used their tubes and others….and am currently using one that was designed by the Wood River Company in Chico, CA. I would recommend the Wood River products highly. Barry Brown Hello out there! Is there anyone in this newsgroup, who has experience, or know anything, about a belly boat from Creek Company. The type is an U-form (U-shape, I’m not quite sure about the right word). If you have any information on this boat, I would be happy to hear your opinion. — Martin B. Hedegaard V
I’m Interested in buying a boat for shallow water fishing in Bays and Rivers (Chesapeake Bay) Can anyone give me thier opinion on the Carolina Skiffs. I’ll be flyfishing from this boat. Preferably would like to hear from skiff owners or dealers. Thanks Nick DelleDonne "The Evening Rise Fly Angler’s Shop"
I’m Interested in buying a boat for shallow water fishing in Bays and Rivers (Chesapeake Bay) Can anyone give me thier opinion on the Carolina Skiffs. I’ll be flyfishing from this boat. Preferably would like to hear from skiff owners or dealers. Thanks Nick DelleDonne "The Evening Rise Fly Angler’s Shop"
Hi Nick: I own a Southern Skimmer,(pretty much the same boat) I love it, you don’t need much water to run in or that much power to push it. I use mine on the great south bay on long island(NY) and it gets a little bouncy when its rough but on a river or lake where it’s a little calmer it should be great. J Branca