Question:
and why over-planning can lead to a skunking. We all get skunked sometimes but the skunkings that really bug me are the ones where others around me are catching fish and I’m getting diddly. I don’t enjoy the feeling of incompetence. The penny has finally dropped as to why (and no, the incompetence isn’t it.) We all go fishing operating on theory, approach, and method, but I’m starting to form the opinion that one can get too hung up on it. Before you dismiss me as being completely loonie consider this example of T.A.& M.: Theory – "Big browns feed at night." Approach – The big, slow pools on river XXXX should be fished at dusk. Method – Take a 6 wt. and cast a deerhair mouse pattern across current allowing the slow movement of the water to drag the mouse slowly across the pool. Unless one is a complete rookie, we all go through some sort of thought process like this before heading out. But what happens if we do this in too great a detail and try to fit the river to our plans instead of the other way around? What happens if there’s a hex hatch starting but we are still banging away with our mouse? Before setting out for the Penns clave, I’d pretty well decided that I’d swing wets or streamers if no hatch was happening. The first day in, I was completely skunked until I gave up on the idea and began dredging the green water with PTs. On my last trip to the Whirlpool, I had decided on speys and streamers, again nothing until I started dredging the bottom with bunny leeches. Armed with this experience, I took my bunny leeches to the Catt, dredged the deep runs and was skunked again. Last Sunday, I went to the Credit even though I knew the river would be blown out, just to try the new rod. When I got down to the big tree pool, I tied on a black & purple spider spey and a sinking Polyleader as it seemed the appropriate thing to do, then began casting and drifting, getting the feel of the big stick, fixing casting problems, and fiddling with the mending. Without even trying, I was into a fish. In PA, the Whirlpool and at the Catt, I was getting skunked while others hooked fish. At the Credit, I was the only one in the vicinity to get into a fish. The boot was on the other foot. Duh! Bingo! Go with the flow instead or persisting with a pre-planned method. It seems so blindingly obvious when I write it, but it’s so subtle to detect in real life. We have to do some planning else we’d show up at the river with no rod but being too focused before leaving the house can saddle one with a goose egg. Perhaps I’m the only angler on the planet to do this, but I’m willing to bet I’m not. From this point on, there will be at least one less. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html
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Skunkings are primarily caused by being jinxed. To wit: Have you ever noticed that if you are catching fish hand over fist and then explain your success to another angler, the other angler will start catching fish and you will not catch another fish for at least 2 hours, probably the rest of the day? My fishing buddy, Rat, caught more fish on Good Friday than he had ever caught in his life. The rest of the summer, he was notably behind the curve. Even God is in on this. It is all superstition. Absolutely no science or method to it at all… — Citizen Fisherman I’m kinda spooked; I think I may have said too much already… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – and why over-planning can lead to a skunking. We all get skunked sometimes but the skunkings that really bug me are the ones where others around me are catching fish and I’m getting diddly. I don’t enjoy the feeling of incompetence. The penny has finally dropped as to why (and no, the incompetence isn’t it.) We all go fishing operating on theory, approach, and method, but I’m starting to form the opinion that one can get too hung up on it. Before you dismiss me as being completely loonie consider this example of T.A.& M.: Theory – "Big browns feed at night." Approach – The big, slow pools on river XXXX should be fished at dusk. Method – Take a 6 wt. and cast a deerhair mouse pattern across current allowing the slow movement of the water to drag the mouse slowly across the pool. Unless one is a complete rookie, we all go through some sort of thought process like this before heading out. But what happens if we do this in too great a detail and try to fit the river to our plans instead of the other way around? What happens if there’s a hex hatch starting but we are still banging away with our mouse? Before setting out for the Penns clave, I’d pretty well decided that I’d swing wets or streamers if no hatch was happening. The first day in, I was completely skunked until I gave up on the idea and began dredging the green water with PTs. On my last trip to the Whirlpool, I had decided on speys and streamers, again nothing until I started dredging the bottom with bunny leeches. Armed with this experience, I took my bunny leeches to the Catt, dredged the deep runs and was skunked again. Last Sunday, I went to the Credit even though I knew the river would be blown out, just to try the new rod. When I got down to the big tree pool, I tied on a black & purple spider spey and a sinking Polyleader as it seemed the appropriate thing to do, then began casting and drifting, getting the feel of the big stick, fixing casting problems, and fiddling with the mending. Without even trying, I was into a fish. In PA, the Whirlpool and at the Catt, I was getting skunked while others hooked fish. At the Credit, I was the only one in the vicinity to get into a fish. The boot was on the other foot. Duh! Bingo! Go with the flow instead or persisting with a pre-planned method. It seems so blindingly obvious when I write it, but it’s so subtle to detect in real life. We have to do some planning else we’d show up at the river with no rod but being too focused before leaving the house can saddle one with a goose egg. Perhaps I’m the only angler on the planet to do this, but I’m willing to bet I’m not. From this point on, there will be at least one less. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html
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George Adams writes: FWIW, I have have found the Jailbird to be most effective fished deep, as a dropper or under an indicator.
Shhhhhhhhh! Dave
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what color closed cell foam?
On the original (olive) pattern, I use white or yellow. On the modified (tan) pattern, I use yellow or orange. They seem to be most successful in sizes #18 -#22. I have done well with this pattern tied on scud type (curved) hooks and conventional wet fly hooks. There are a number of midge pups patterns, Serendipity for example, that incorporate a bouyant (deer hair or foam) collar so , at least in theory, the fly rides upright in the water. FWIW, I have have found the Jailbird to be most effective fished deep, as a dropper or under an indicator. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"
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It also helps to keep an open mind, and not get too fixated on one particular aspect (unless, as a couple of people have pointed out, THAT is the goal) if you are _fishing_, rather than experimenting, testing, etc.
Interesting point. On a local freestone stream, most folks hit the pools in the fall with PT nymphs, or midge/bwo dry patterns. I was down in a spot with a couple of small pools and pocket water. In the small pools I was noticing every once in a while a leaf would hit the water and bang! it would get hit. I watched it a couple of times, figuring out that there was a terrestrial hanging on the falling leaf that was getting hit. I didn’t find out *what*, though 
. In addition, there were a lot of yellow jackets around. In talking with some folks who fished succesfully in that stretch, they were using bee patterns very successfully, even though it was past the traditional time for terrestrials. On the leaves, it could have been some left over ants or something hanging on…don’t know for sure. But of course, I was geared up with 20 and 22 BWO’s and BHPT’s which were being ignored. Similar observations and results with another angler upstream a bit. I didn’t have any terrestrial patterns with me, though, or I would have tried them. Rob
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what color closed cell foam? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – George Adams writes: Dave, Try the same pattern with tan dubbing, and either orange or yellow foam. {:-) And maybe change the ribbing to orange. I’ll give it a try (come June). Dave
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For me, it’s a matter of choosing a method at the house rather than when I arrived at the water, based either on past experience or just for the hell of it.
Oh, well, yeah, you’re right then: that’s just beggin’ for a skunkin’. When I would do that (for steelheading, it usually meant leaving one or another of the rods or lines at home, assuming I’d never, ever need it, not today), the invariable result was regret. Good luck on the Credit today. BTW, how’s that thesis coming? JR
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I agree. Being flexible is by far the best plan. The trick to making it work, though, is to stick to it no matter what! ;) Seriously, I wish life were that simple. I’ve more than once been skunked in the morning, only to catch a mess in the afternoon, using the same technique. Often the conditions change to coincide with whatever method we happen to be using. Sometimes the "changed condition" can be simply moving down or up to a different piece of water. Your post set me thinking back. I don’t know that I’ve been skunked more often by sticking stubbornly to one method than by switching willy-nilly every twenty minutes from one fly and presentation to another. The one thing to avoid, I think, is doing something–whatever it is–for no good reason, casting about blindly, as it were. If I’ve decided on a method for good reason (weather, look of the water, behavior of the fish, past experience), I’ll generally stick with it until I’ve got an equally good reason to change. Of course, human nature being what it is, a stretch of two or three fishless hours can in itself grow to seem a sufficient reason <g. Parenthetically, I find if the fishing is pleasant (balmy weather, pleasant scenery), I’m less tempted to change my plan than when it’s cold, grey, windy and raining. JR
For me, it’s a matter of choosing a method at the house rather than when I arrived at the water, based either on past experience or just for the hell of it. The results are often not that good until I start paying attention to what the conditions are telling me. I’ll be leaving for the Credit soon and this time I’ll be taking a good look at the water before I decide what to do. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html
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Duh! Bingo! Go with the flow instead or persisting with a pre-planned method. It seems so blindingly obvious when I write it, but it’s so subtle to detect in real life. We have to do some planning else we’d show up at the river with no rod but being too focused before leaving the house can saddle one with a goose egg. Perhaps I’m the only angler on the planet to do this, but I’m willing to bet I’m not. From this point on, there will be at least one less.
I agree. Being flexible is by far the best plan. The trick to making it work, though, is to stick to it no matter what! ;) Seriously, I wish life were that simple. I’ve more than once been skunked in the morning, only to catch a mess in the afternoon, using the same technique. Often the conditions change to coincide with whatever method we happen to be using. Sometimes the "changed condition" can be simply moving down or up to a different piece of water. Your post set me thinking back. I don’t know that I’ve been skunked more often by sticking stubbornly to one method than by switching willy-nilly every twenty minutes from one fly and presentation to another. The one thing to avoid, I think, is doing something–whatever it is–for no good reason, casting about blindly, as it were. If I’ve decided on a method for good reason (weather, look of the water, behavior of the fish, past experience), I’ll generally stick with it until I’ve got an equally good reason to change. Of course, human nature being what it is, a stretch of two or three fishless hours can in itself grow to seem a sufficient reason <g. Parenthetically, I find if the fishing is pleasant (balmy weather, pleasant scenery), I’m less tempted to change my plan than when it’s cold, grey, windy and raining. JR
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Example: A couple of years ago I came across a pattern at an Orvis store. It’s called the "jail bird". A very easy tie – size 20 hook, some closed cell foam at the thorax, olive dubbing with a red thread ribbing.
Dave, Try the same pattern with tan dubbing, and either orange or yellow foam. {:-) George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"
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George Adams writes: Dave, Try the same pattern with tan dubbing, and either orange or yellow foam. {:-)
And maybe change the ribbing to orange. I’ll give it a try (come June). Dave
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Skunkings are primarily caused by being jinxed. To wit: Have you ever noticed that if you are catching fish hand over fist and then explain your success to another angler, the other angler will start catching fish and you will not catch another fish for at least 2 hours, probably the rest of the day?
No, I’ve never noticed that. — Check out the ROFF Calendar at: http://www.ruralnetwork.net/%7Etroutbum/calendar/calendar.html
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willi, I agree with you–it is fun just to try new methods and tools. I never catch many fish but enjoy spending a little time reading then going out ant trying a new technique. still no success with streamers or upstream casting of nymphs- but then perhaps the fish had not read the same article. Had great fun in Oct. when Big Dale and I shared cabin on small N.C. stream.[ see below I hit wrong button] first time I got a chance to fish same stream for four days with similar weather conditions. Tried dries, nymphs and streamers for a day each all with minor success. The fourth morning I walked down to the creek, cast three times and caught three fish–then not another in two hours. Some days are more fun than others. Indian Joe Wilmington N.C. some days are more fun than others.
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and why over-planning can lead to a skunking. We all get skunked sometimes but the skunkings that really bug me are the ones where others around me are catching fish and I’m getting diddly. I don’t enjoy the feeling of incompetence. The penny has finally dropped as to why (and no, the incompetence isn’t it.) We all go fishing operating on theory, approach, and method, but I’m starting to form the opinion that one can get too hung up on it.
It always helps to do some basic planning, and research/ reconnaissance, before hitting the water, just to know what’s there, so you can make an educated guess as to what’s possible, what’s likely, and what else _might_work if your originally-intended method seems to be "off." It also helps to keep an open mind, and not get too fixated on one particular aspect (unless, as a couple of people have pointed out, THAT is the goal) if you are _fishing_, rather than experimenting, testing, etc. This is one reason why (a disappointingly decreasing percentage, I’d offer) some anglers take a few basic tying supplies with them (certainly on overnight or longer trips), even on all-day trips. You don’t need a lot of stuff – a water-tight "flip-top" eyeglass or cigarette box will hold a sufficiency – but of course, some at-home freehand tying practice is important unless you want to lug a vise (I don’t, but a "multi-purpose" tool and stout rubber band will do in a pinch, as will a pin vise). It also helps to be ready to use whatever is at hand as a material. In fact, some notable "modification" patterns are reported to have originated with less-than-orthodox materials adapted "spur of the moment." If you do use any less-than-orthodox material, depending on source, or even traditional material long-stored in fishing clothing, I’d advise attempting to remove as much "human scent" as possible – for example, if you use some pocket lint for dubbing, rub it in some natural material, dirt/mud (if it’s not on the reddish side), loam, etc. and rinse in the fishing water. I can’t say for sure as to whether the fish can tell, but I do think that it’s better safe than sorry.
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Peter Charles wrote…. and why over-planning can lead to a skunking.
Not over planning just stubborness. You want to do it the way you want and you forget why you’re there. Your way or no way. A little flexibility and your accumulated knowledge and your back to catching fish. There’s no explaining a skunking. There’s no reason or logic when others are catching and you’re not. Unless you’re totally inept. It’s just chance. Fate. What brings you back next time. Joel Axelrad **DFD**
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I’m getting into this discussion a little late… In waters that I know, it is always fun to experiment with something new. During the off-season (now), I will tie new patterns that I *know* will work. Call it intuition. Most times they *do* work. Example: A couple of years ago I came across a pattern at an Orvis store. It’s called the "jail bird". A very easy tie – size 20 hook, some closed cell foam at the thorax, olive dubbing with a red thread ribbing. I *knew* it would work at a certain spot on a certain river. My first short cast with it brought up a beautiful brookie. Another example, Peter, is those Clousers you tied in September. When I saw them I knew they would work – and they did. <g I’ve never been skunked on that river – came close a few times, however. That is when I stop my "normal" attack and use something different, something that I *know* they will like. We’ve heard it said that trout are like women: find out what they want and give it to them. The finding out part can be very difficult, especially on waters unfamiliar to you. Dave
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Peter, You make, as ever, good points. I think another couple are:1)knowledge of the river you are fishing often prevents bad theory in the first place and 2) on hard-fished rivers, something different often works. To feebly illustrate: Using your Penn’s example, I could have shown you places in the early morning to hammer them with streamers, even in the lower waters. Also, large wets were working pretty well in the off peak times over the right water. I had a bit more local knowledge(and you and David rendered yourselves out of reach of where I was fishing most days,lest any readers think I was witholding advice).
Well, that was my first thought. You’re right about fishing waters you know well. Knowing them well and the comfort that gives, is one of their pleasures. On my home river, there are a number of small areas I know that fish use as feeding stations that are almost always ignored by other anglers. They are in nondiscript water that I found from watching the fish during low water conditions or dimpling during a hatch. On the other hand, new waters are exciting; from figuring out where and how to fish, to just being in a new beautiful place. Willi
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Peter, You make, as ever, good points. I think another couple are:1)knowledge of the river you are fishing often prevents bad theory in the first place and 2) on hard-fished rivers, something different often works. To feebly illustrate: Using your Penn’s example, I could have shown you places in the early morning to hammer them with streamers, even in the lower waters. Also, large wets were working pretty well in the off peak times over the right water. I had a bit more local knowledge(and you and David rendered yourselves out of reach of where I was fishing most days,lest any readers think I was witholding advice). For the other point, I once fished the Tulpehocken during a decent caddis emergence. I, and several others patiently tried adults, pupa and the like, to little effect. Some fella rolls through with a chartreuse Glo-bug and has browns of 18 inches or so chasing the thing. He landed 4 from the pool I was fishing and moved on… Tom L
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I agree that persisting with a pre-planned method is often going to result in few or no fish especially if the conditions don’t warrant the method you’ve chosen. However, there are times, especially on my home river that I decide I’m going to catch fish on my terms or I won’t catch any. Sometimes I just want to fish a particular technique, catching lots of fish isn’t always the goal. Sometimes it’s fun to try and "will" a fish to take something that "shouldn’t" work. Willi
I agree – you know X will catch fish so you try Y just for shits & giggles. Done it many times. That’s for waters you know well, however my sins extend to waters that I know squat about. It’s just a matter of not bringing too many preconceived notions to the water. You can’t hear what the water is telling you over the cacophony of your plans. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – and why over-planning can lead to a skunking. We all get skunked sometimes but the skunkings that really bug me are the ones where others around me are catching fish and I’m getting diddly. I don’t enjoy the feeling of incompetence. The penny has finally dropped as to why (and no, the incompetence isn’t it.) Duh! Bingo! Go with the flow instead or persisting with a pre-planned method. It seems so blindingly obvious when I write it, but it’s so subtle to detect in real life. We have to do some planning else we’d show up at the river with no rod but being too focused before leaving the house can saddle one with a goose egg. Perhaps I’m the only angler on the planet to do this, but I’m willing to bet I’m not. From this point on, there will be at least one less.
I agree that persisting with a pre-planned method is often going to result in few or no fish especially if the conditions don’t warrant the method you’ve chosen. However, there are times, especially on my home river that I decide I’m going to catch fish on my terms or I won’t catch any. Sometimes I just want to fish a particular technique, catching lots of fish isn’t always the goal. Sometimes it’s fun to try and "will" a fish to take something that "shouldn’t" work. Willi