Question:

Now imagine that trip with some *real* streamers in your arsenal.  <g (we may have the beginnings of a convert) Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

I fish streamers often.  I had small Mickey Finns and white/peacock Deceivers with me.  But, knowing there were very large fish in the pool, and never having taken one there, I tried the largest fly I had.  And it took the largest trout I’ve ever caught. Glenn GKT

Response:

. 15" and 18" browns.  Not something to write in a diary, but it worked. Any trout of that size I take on a fly rod will get written in a diary. Pete Collin

Well, me too; I was way too casual in that description.  Probably in comparison to the 11 trout someone else caught the day before.   For the record, the previous largest trout of my life was a 21" brown on a #16 Goddard Caddis from a pool on this creek.  But there are a fair number of long-term holdover trout in the 15" plus range there.   Glenn   GKT

Response:

Not something to write in a diary, but it worked. Fairly sure I would write that in my diary! TL MC

Well, I did.  I apologize for being way too casual.  I belittled it in comparison to the 11 fish someone else caught the day before. Glenn GKT

Response:

If I saw a trout big enough to eat a 4" clouser I would write about it.    hell, i would leap from the water, terrified. your friend in the old north state wayno where a 4 inch clouser would be damn close to a record.

I did warm my waders when I saw the fish. GKT

Response:

. 15" and 18" browns.  Not something to write in a diary, but it worked. Any trout of that size I take on a fly rod will get written in a diary. Pete Collin

Could you improve that remark by just saying "Any?" GG

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After an hour or so of good intentions, I switched to the inevitable Wooly Bugger.  Black marabou, peacock herl and silver wire body, black saddle hackle palmer, silver barbell eyes.  With the cover of rain, I got next to the dark green channels and high sticked the Bugger through the runs. 15" and 18" browns.  Not something to write in a diary, but it worked.

Fairly sure I would write that in my diary! TL MC

Response:

Fairly sure I would write that in my diary! TL MC

If I saw a trout big enough to eat a 4" clouser I would write about it. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply.

Response:

Fairly sure I would write that in my diary! TL MC If I saw a trout big enough to eat a 4" clouser I would write about it.

    hell, i would leap from the water, terrified. your friend in the old north state wayno where a 4 inch clouser would be damn close to a record.

Response:

Thursday 4/25 Paradise Creek off the Brodhead 9:30 to 2:30.  Light to moderate rain with an air temperature of 43 to 46 degrees. The day before, someone had taken 11 browns up to 18" on Hendrickson spinners. To quote Dizzy Dean, it ain’t bragging if you can do it. Thursday the creek was up but fairly clear.  Rings on every pool but they were made by drips from the hemlocks and sycamores.  An occasional microcaddis in the air, but no concentration of bugs in the trees.  I checked the streamside and bridge spiderwebs for evidence of hatches but they were generally empty. No shucks on the rocks, though the rising creek might have covered earlier stonefly activity. My fishing partner stuck with a Prince nymph most of the day.  It had worked the previous week, so he went over a lot of water giving it another chance. Moderately stubborn type. I changed flys with that fine desperation and lack of intuition which characterizes my approach to tough conditions.  If I had thought to bring midge pupa imitations with me they might have been a better bet.  I was also trying to avoid retreating to Wooly Buggers. After an hour or so of good intentions, I switched to the inevitable Wooly Bugger.  Black marabou, peacock herl and silver wire body, black saddle hackle palmer, silver barbell eyes.  With the cover of rain, I got next to the dark green channels and high sticked the Bugger through the runs. 15" and 18" browns.  Not something to write in a diary, but it worked. To close out the day, we went to the toughest stretch, Harold’s Pool.  My friend went up through all the riffles with the Prince.  I drew a very large flash to the Wooly Bugger, but the big fish in that pool see a lot of Wooly Buggers from desperate anglers.  I put on a 4" 1/0 chartreuse and white Clouser (barbless) and flogged the depths of the pool.  No fun casting with a 3 wt. But the second cast, letting the Clouser swing below me, a trout nailed the fly (ok, it might as well be a jig).  And it made the day light up.  I horsed it as best I could with the 3 wt. and a 2X flourocarbon leader.  And it fought upstream, probably surprised as hell that it couldn’t snap the leader instantly.  So in a few minutes I brought a brilliantly colored brown to my feet, popped the Clouser out of the corner of its mouth, and set it free. We took our shivering old bodies to the car, put away our rods, signed out, and headed home with the heater cranked to max.  No bugs but not a bad day. GKT

Response:

[snip] We took our shivering old bodies to the car, put away our rods, signed out, and headed home with the heater cranked to max.  No bugs but not a bad day. GKT

Now imagine that trip with some *real* streamers in your arsenal.  <g (we may have the beginnings of a convert) Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

. 15" and 18" browns.  Not something to write in a diary, but it worked.

Any trout of that size I take on a fly rod will get written in a diary. Pete Collin

Response:

Nice story Arn.  It’s hard to maintain the discipline between being a fly fisherman and lures.  It’s like walking the fine line between genius and insanity. Fly fishing has driven many advocates mad. Yes, its a mad, mad, mad world! George Gehrke "Mr. Cool"

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thursday 4/25 Paradise Creek off the Brodhead 9:30 to 2:30.  Light to moderate rain with an air temperature of 43 to 46 degrees. The day before, someone had taken 11 browns up to 18" on Hendrickson spinners. To quote Dizzy Dean, it ain’t bragging if you can do it. Thursday the creek was up but fairly clear.  Rings on every pool but they were made by drips from the hemlocks and sycamores.  An occasional microcaddis in the air, but no concentration of bugs in the trees.  I checked the streamside and bridge spiderwebs for evidence of hatches but they were generally empty. No shucks on the rocks, though the rising creek might have covered earlier stonefly activity. My fishing partner stuck with a Prince nymph most of the day.  It had worked the previous week, so he went over a lot of water giving it another chance. Moderately stubborn type. I changed flys with that fine desperation and lack of intuition which characterizes my approach to tough conditions.  If I had thought to bring midge pupa imitations with me they might have been a better bet.  I was also trying to avoid retreating to Wooly Buggers. After an hour or so of good intentions, I switched to the inevitable Wooly Bugger.  Black marabou, peacock herl and silver wire body, black saddle hackle palmer, silver barbell eyes.  With the cover of rain, I got next to the dark green channels and high sticked the Bugger through the runs. 15" and 18" browns.  Not something to write in a diary, but it worked. To close out the day, we went to the toughest stretch, Harold’s Pool.  My friend went up through all the riffles with the Prince.  I drew a very large flash to the Wooly Bugger, but the big fish in that pool see a lot of Wooly Buggers from desperate anglers.  I put on a 4" 1/0 chartreuse and white Clouser (barbless) and flogged the depths of the pool.  No fun casting with a 3 wt. But the second cast, letting the Clouser swing below me, a trout nailed the fly (ok, it might as well be a jig).  And it made the day light up.  I horsed it as best I could with the 3 wt. and a 2X flourocarbon leader.  And it fought upstream, probably surprised as hell that it couldn’t snap the leader instantly.  So in a few minutes I brought a brilliantly colored brown to my feet, popped the Clouser out of the corner of its mouth, and set it free. We took our shivering old bodies to the car, put away our rods, signed out, and headed home with the heater cranked to max.  No bugs but not a bad day. GKT

Response:

STREAMERS is a very good idea.  I would have fished a muddler minnow darting along the bottom with a sink tip. George Gehrke "guessing is better than doing nothing" Now imagine that trip with some *real* streamers in your arsenal.  <g (we may have the beginnings of a convert) Peter Visit The Streamer Page at

http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Question:

| One of the benefits of living out on the California coast is the ability | to fly across the ocean with a view of a rugged coastline and | breathtaking, pristine wilderness.  I did this today, took off from my | home airport at Little River and flew over the village of Mendocino and | out a few miles offshore to practice some stalls and look at the | continent. | | I was at about 2500 feet when I looked down and saw an interesting boat, | very long.. hey, is it submerged?  That looks like another one next to | it….  and then it dawns on me that they are two whales swimming north | at about 5 knots.  I compared their size with a fishing boat 1/2 mile | away and realized that they were at least 80 feet long and were probably | blue whales, which do migrate past Mendocino point a few times a year. | | I circled them a few times and then left them alone to continue their | journey.  Quite amazing. That is one of the benefits of ‘flying’.  And it doesn’t matter where you live.  Just the scenery is different. I saw a nest in some high power towers.  On closer examination it was an Osprey nest and there were two young Ospreys in it.  I did ‘turns around a point’ several times.  Then my instructor said that we should leave now.  He said that the parent Ospreys are very protective and will attack your plane from below.  The Osprey doesn’t win, but neither do you.  Apparently he had some experience with some.  But it was neat. I wish I could have seen your whales.  Maybe someday … — Rob http://www.dnc.net/users/rlmiller/

Response:

Tops are high enough, though the bottoms are the problem when the marine layer creeps onshore.  Little River is often socked in at 200ft on the west end and clear as a bell on the east end.  My house 10 miles north is that way all the time too during the summer.  Today, for example, it was very clear at 11am when I went up, though there was no horizon due to the marine layer about 15 miles out.  By afternoon it was onshore—it was foggy in town but clear at my place, probably similar situation at the airport. Weather is a fascinating lesson in geography. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Tops generally high enough to sock in Little River? seriously, seems to be around until 10am or so, then back mid-afternoon.  We have a high offshore today and relatively warm weather which helps drive things out early, though I hear the subsequent trough is building and we will have more fog and wetness over the weekend.  So much for working in the garden (or going flying)

Response:

Thanks.  I like to listen to "local knowledge" when it’s available. Don – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Tops are high enough, though the bottoms are the problem when the marine layer creeps onshore.  Little River is often socked in at 200ft on the west end and clear as a bell on the east end.  My house 10 miles north is that way all the time too during the summer.  Today, for example, it was very clear at 11am when I went up, though there was no horizon due to the marine layer about 15 miles out.  By afternoon it was onshore—it was foggy in town but clear at my place, probably similar situation at the airport. Weather is a fascinating lesson in geography. Tops generally high enough to sock in Little River? seriously, seems to be around until 10am or so, then back mid-afternoon.  We have a high offshore today and relatively warm weather which helps drive things out early, though I hear the subsequent trough is building and we will have more fog and wetness over the weekend.  So much for working in the garden (or going flying)

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Tops generally high enough to sock in Little River? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – schedule?  not much of a schedule unless you count "always present" seriously, seems to be around until 10am or so, then back mid-afternoon.  We have a high offshore today and relatively warm weather which helps drive things out early, though I hear the subsequent trough is building and we will have more fog and wetness over the weekend.  So much for working in the garden (or going flying) Cool.  What kind of schedule is the costal stratus on this time of year? Don One of the benefits of living out on the California coast is the ability to fly across the ocean with a view of a rugged coastline and breathtaking, pristine wilderness.  I did this today, took off from my home airport at Little River and flew over the village of Mendocino and out a few miles offshore to practice some stalls and look at the continent. I was at about 2500 feet when I looked down and saw an interesting boat, very long.. hey, is it submerged?  That looks like another one next to it….  and then it dawns on me that they are two whales swimming north at about 5 knots.  I compared their size with a fishing boat 1/2 mile away and realized that they were at least 80 feet long and were probably blue whales, which do migrate past Mendocino point a few times a year. I circled them a few times and then left them alone to continue their journey.  Quite amazing.

Response:

schedule?  not much of a schedule unless you count "always present" seriously, seems to be around until 10am or so, then back mid-afternoon.  We have a high offshore today and relatively warm weather which helps drive things out early, though I hear the subsequent trough is building and we will have more fog and wetness over the weekend.  So much for working in the garden (or going flying) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Cool.  What kind of schedule is the costal stratus on this time of year? Don One of the benefits of living out on the California coast is the ability to fly across the ocean with a view of a rugged coastline and breathtaking, pristine wilderness.  I did this today, took off from my home airport at Little River and flew over the village of Mendocino and out a few miles offshore to practice some stalls and look at the continent. I was at about 2500 feet when I looked down and saw an interesting boat, very long.. hey, is it submerged?  That looks like another one next to it….  and then it dawns on me that they are two whales swimming north at about 5 knots.  I compared their size with a fishing boat 1/2 mile away and realized that they were at least 80 feet long and were probably blue whales, which do migrate past Mendocino point a few times a year. I circled them a few times and then left them alone to continue their journey.  Quite amazing.

Response:

Cool.  What kind of schedule is the costal stratus on this time of year? Don – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – One of the benefits of living out on the California coast is the ability to fly across the ocean with a view of a rugged coastline and breathtaking, pristine wilderness.  I did this today, took off from my home airport at Little River and flew over the village of Mendocino and out a few miles offshore to practice some stalls and look at the continent. I was at about 2500 feet when I looked down and saw an interesting boat, very long.. hey, is it submerged?  That looks like another one next to it….  and then it dawns on me that they are two whales swimming north at about 5 knots.  I compared their size with a fishing boat 1/2 mile away and realized that they were at least 80 feet long and were probably blue whales, which do migrate past Mendocino point a few times a year. I circled them a few times and then left them alone to continue their journey.  Quite amazing.

Response:

One of the benefits of living out on the California coast is the ability to fly across the ocean with a view of a rugged coastline and breathtaking, pristine wilderness.  I did this today, took off from my home airport at Little River and flew over the village of Mendocino and out a few miles offshore to practice some stalls and look at the continent. I was at about 2500 feet when I looked down and saw an interesting boat, very long.. hey, is it submerged?  That looks like another one next to it….  and then it dawns on me that they are two whales swimming north at about 5 knots.  I compared their size with a fishing boat 1/2 mile away and realized that they were at least 80 feet long and were probably blue whales, which do migrate past Mendocino point a few times a year. I circled them a few times and then left them alone to continue their journey.  Quite amazing.

Response:

Question:

I function best in the world I know best.  Fly fishing.  I sure wish all you other bastards would get back to the world of reality or take you political crap elsewhere. If wishes were beggars . . . — Mr.G. http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html        bamboo flyrods & blanks    More Bamboo For Less Money Than     ANY OTHER FLY ROD IN THE WORLD

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I function best in the world I know best.  Fly fishing.  I sure wish all you other bastards would get back to the world of reality or take you political crap elsewhere. If wishes were beggars . . . — Mr.G. http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html        bamboo flyrods & blanks    More Bamboo For Less Money Than     ANY OTHER FLY ROD IN THE WORLD

Dang it!  I meant YOUR! Wayne, please remember its the message which counts, not the spelling. How many fingers am I holding up ole buddy? — Mr.G. http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html        bamboo flyrods & blanks    More Bamboo For Less Money Than     ANY OTHER FLY ROD IN THE WORLD

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I function best in the world I know best.  Fly fishing.  I sure wish all you other bastards would get back to the world of reality or take you political crap elsewhere. If wishes were beggars . . . — Mr.G. http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html        bamboo flyrods & blanks    More Bamboo For Less Money Than     ANY OTHER FLY ROD IN THE WORLD

_   Three! — Mr.G. http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html        bamboo flyrods & blanks    More Bamboo For Less Money Than     ANY OTHER FLY ROD IN THE WORLD

Response:

Not to be rude or impudent, but I’ve noticed that you’ve both initiated and responded to numerous threads that either bear or should bear the POL opener in the subject header. Josh Haag "If you’re not part of the solution, you’re part of the problem" -Unknown (only because it’s too late for research, and I don’t own Bartlett’s Quotations) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I function best in the world I know best.  Fly fishing.  I sure wish all you other bastards would get back to the world of reality or take you political crap elsewhere. If wishes were beggars . . . — Mr.G. http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html        bamboo flyrods & blanks    More Bamboo For Less Money Than     ANY OTHER FLY ROD IN THE WORLD

Response:

Not to be rude or impudent, but I’ve noticed that you’ve both initiated and responded to numerous threads that either bear or should bear the POL opener in the subject header. Josh Haag

______  You’re correct Josh. Thing is, this place is full of the political stuff I’ve tried  hard to avoid.  Well, I’ll listen to you for a change because you are not rude nor impudent for speaking the truth. Nothing more annoying than a Demoncrat fly fisherman. whoops!   Seriously, I’m interested only in fly fishing matters and subject akin to that.  Lets face it Josh.  Darwin was not a fly fisherman. woos! http://www.gink.com George Imus Gehrke  (and yes, the ‘n’ is intentional) whoops!

Response:

"If you’re not part of the solution, you’re part of the problem" -Unknown (only because it’s too late for research, and I don’t own Bartlett’s Quotations)

"You’re either part of the solution or part of the problem". Eldridge Cleaver, San Francisco, 1968 — Charlie…

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Soul on Margin… eh? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "You’re either part of the solution or part of the problem". Eldridge Cleaver, San Francisco, 1968 — Charlie…

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Soul on Margin… eh?

Well, he did die a Republican… — Charlie…

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Yep… MOI to the end…. from Minister Of Information to Manager Of Investments I think many of us can relate. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Soul on Margin… eh? Well, he did die a Republican… — Charlie…

Response:

If wishes were beggars . . .

Horses could ride?? — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyo Before you buy.

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If wishes were beggars . . . Horses could ride??

Yeah, really shows the critical defect in his thought processes, don’t it?

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Yeah, really shows the critical defect in his thought processes, don’t it?

*The*? — Charlie…

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Yeah, really shows the critical defect in his thought processes, don’t it? *The*?

Whoops! Sorry, obviously should have said "one of the countless". /daytripper (My bad!)

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Question:

Thanks. I’d love to go there, maybe next year! Miikeh – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Very Nice,         maybe some day I will see my local waters (On your site)   like Hat creek or the Pit River.

Response:

If anyone is intersted, I have a new fly fishing site.  It’s nothing fancy, but I would appreciate any input or suggestions.  It has lots of pictures of streams I fish near my home in Minneapolis and other streams out west.  I also will be posting the current stream conditions for spots as I fish ‘em. http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mmhodg/ Thanks. MikeH

Response:

Very Nice,          maybe some day I will see my local waters (On your site)    like Hat creek or the Pit River.

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Question:

: Maybe Sandy should parcel off the 2/3rds to the readers of ROFF.  The : only thing we’d have to figure out is what section Tim is going to get : and where we’ll build the whore house. I also want to know where Wayne will park his truck to begin the bean-fest. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

Response:

: Maybe Sandy should parcel off the 2/3rds to the readers of ROFF.  The : only thing we’d have to figure out is what section Tim is going to get : and where we’ll build the whore house. I also want to know where Wayne will park his truck to begin the bean-fest.

Upwind of the beavers…that’ll drive ‘em out. — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY

Response:

Hi Sandy-    Lets say some Californian just bought 100 of the prettiest acres ever put up for sale in SW Montana. . . and immediately wanted to sub divide it, build a sprawling ranchette and get rid of the vermin. You need to kill the beavers quick because they’re flooding the road and you just washed your Orvis endorsed vehicle and don’t really want to drive on a wet road. And, hear this, it gets even worse: they’re eating willows. Can’t they eat dog food or bird seed or something?    To answer your question: grenades work well. Pull the pin, count to sixty real slow then throw it at one of those damn beavers.    -Ralph – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Let’s say you just bought 100 of the prettiest acres ever put up for sale in South West Montana…complete with 3/4 of a mile of a deep, clear, undercut spring creek, large brown trout, deer, sand hill cranes, ducks, geese, eagles, osprey, snipe, pheasants, badgers and beavers. And it’s only nine miles from town. You wanna sell off two thirty acre pieces and build on the third.   But the damn beavers are flooding the road so bad you’re afraid to list your property. Worse, they’re mowing down dense, thick, old-growth willows like a drunk redneck with a chainsaw. So you start shooting beavers. (this is still all totally hypothetical, mind you).  But the damn beavers start to get smart (after killing five in the first three nights) and start waiting till way after dark to come out of their lodge. So what’s the best way to kill beavers? Chloroform in the lodge? Hand grenades? What? —

Ralph and Lisa Cutter. California School of Flyfishing http:www/flyline.com

Response:

: Let’s say you just bought 100 of the prettiest acres ever put up for sale : in South West Montana…complete with 3/4 of a mile of a deep, clear, : You wanna sell off two thirty acre pieces and build on : the third. I think with three houses, and probably fences, it’s no longer going to be the prettiest 100 acres in SW MT, beavers or no. That said, I’m kinda ambivalent about the beaver thing; I can see why one sides complains about our manipulation of nature, and I can see why someone would want to get rid of the ones on their property. So,… I would think letting a trapper come in would be the best, or is the fur market non-existant these days?  A beaver pelt used to be fairly valuable, I hope in this hypothetical example those three pelts weren’t tossed… Jon Cook.

Response:

writes: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Let’s say you just bought 100 of the prettiest acres ever put up for sale in South West Montana…complete with 3/4 of a mile of a deep, clear, undercut spring creek, large brown trout, deer, sand hill cranes, ducks, geese, eagles, osprey, snipe, pheasants, badgers and beavers. And it’s only nine miles from town. You wanna sell off two thirty acre pieces and build on the third.  But the damn beavers are flooding the road so bad you’re afraid to list your property. Worse, they’re mowing down dense, thick, old-growth willows like a drunk redneck with a chainsaw. So you start shooting beavers. (this is still all totally hypothetical, mind you). But the damn beavers start to get smart (after killing five in the first three nights) and start waiting till way after dark to come out of their lodge. So what’s the best way to kill beavers? Chloroform in the lodge? Hand grenades? What? —

Sandy, I’d sure like to teach the beavers how to get rid of you! But, maybe the greedy real estate agent that handled the sale would be a better target. Pat

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – writes: Let’s say you just bought 100 of the prettiest acres ever put up for sale in South West Montana…complete with 3/4 of a mile of a deep, clear, undercut spring creek, large brown trout, deer, sand hill cranes, ducks, geese, eagles, osprey, snipe, pheasants, badgers and beavers. And it’s only nine miles from town. You wanna sell off two thirty acre pieces and build on the third.  But the damn beavers are flooding the road so bad you’re afraid to list your property. Worse, they’re mowing down dense, thick, old-growth willows like a drunk redneck with a chainsaw. So you start shooting beavers. (this is still all totally hypothetical, mind you). But the damn beavers start to get smart (after killing five in the first three nights) and start waiting till way after dark to come out of their lodge. So what’s the best way to kill beavers? Chloroform in the lodge? Hand grenades? What? — Sandy, I’d sure like to teach the beavers how to get rid of you! But, maybe the greedy real estate agent that handled the sale would be a better target. Pat

Obviously Sandy hasn’t had to deal with the little "construction freaks".  Contact your local Fish and Game and they will put you in touch with a local or state trapper to remedy your problems.   It takes time and should be done in the Winter months as to not waste the hides.  They can be a real problem if you let them get a good hold on your drainage.  Good luck   Ace in Alaska

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – writes: Let’s say you just bought 100 of the prettiest acres ever put up for sale in South West Montana…complete with 3/4 of a mile of a deep, clear, undercut spring creek, large brown trout, deer, sand hill cranes, ducks, geese, eagles, osprey, snipe, pheasants, badgers and beavers. And it’s only nine miles from town. You wanna sell off two thirty acre pieces and build on the third.  But the damn beavers are flooding the road so bad you’re afraid to list your property. Worse, they’re mowing down dense, thick, old-growth willows like a drunk redneck with a chainsaw. So you start shooting beavers. (this is still all totally hypothetical, mind you). But the damn beavers start to get smart (after killing five in the first three nights) and start waiting till way after dark to come out of their lodge. So what’s the best way to kill beavers? Chloroform in the lodge? Hand grenades? What? — Sandy, I’d sure like to teach the beavers how to get rid of you! But, maybe the greedy real estate agent that handled the sale would be a better target. Pat Obviously Sandy hasn’t had to deal with the little "construction freaks".  Contact your local Fish and Game and they will put you in touch with a local or state trapper to remedy your problems. It takes time and should be done in the Winter months as to not waste the hides.  They can be a real problem if you let them get a good hold on your drainage.  Good luck   Ace in Alaska

christ.  (Stick some dynamite up your ass and then light the fuse.  It will solve your beaver problem to my satisfaction) George Gehrke/Professional Sportsman

Response:

Quoting: christ.  (Stick some dynamite up your ass and then light the fuse. It will solve your beaver problem to my satisfaction) George Gehrke/Professional Sportsman Any other readers see a paradox here? — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

        to tell you the truth, i’ve never seen a beaver i wouldn’t love to eat.         a. wayne harrison

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: My advice ?   : One small cabin on the whole 100 acres on the dryest most protected spot. : Your wealth would exceed that possible by sub-dividing and developing. Maybe, but the question is whether he could afford the mortgage payments on that wealth.  Even the locals get caught up in this stuff… I see it all over.  Pretty soon, the latecomers will start complaining about all the growth… — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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Who knows, maybe the deer will visit you in your dreams.

in the mountain village,    the wind rustles the leaves. deep in the night, the deer    cry out beyond the end of dreams.            – minimoto no morotada

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Maybe Sandy should parcel off the 2/3rds to the readers of ROFF.  The only thing we’d have to figure out is what section Tim is going to get and where we’ll build the whore house.

I heard that a famous tributary of the Snake got its name when some trappers were sitting around and one said "someone go into town and bring a Hoback". TimW

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – writes: Let’s say you just bought 100 of the prettiest acres ever put up for sale in South West Montana…complete with 3/4 of a mile of a deep, clear, undercut spring creek, large brown trout, deer, sand hill cranes, ducks, geese, eagles, osprey, snipe, pheasants, badgers and beavers. And it’s only nine miles from town. You wanna sell off two thirty acre pieces and build on the third.  But the damn beavers are flooding the road so bad you’re afraid to list your property. Worse, they’re mowing down dense, thick, old-growth willows like a drunk redneck with a chainsaw. So you start shooting beavers. (this is still all totally hypothetical, mind you). But the damn beavers start to get smart (after killing five in the first three nights) and start waiting till way after dark to come out of their lodge. So what’s the best way to kill beavers? Chloroform in the lodge? Hand grenades? What? — Sandy, I’d sure like to teach the beavers how to get rid of you! But, maybe the greedy real estate agent that handled the sale would be a better target. Pat

Good old leg holds and conibear traps have always worked well for me. Don Kelly

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Yeah, the beavers are in their natural environment.  The Californian is not!

This thread has been a lesson in mass-hysteria.  I don’t know whether Sandy has ever been to California, but he’s lived in Montana as long as I’ve known him. Sandy: do what you must with the beavers, but PLEASE don’t subdivide! If you Montanans continue to chop up Montana into little make-believe tourist ranches, as we have done to Colorado, where will I go on vacation? — -Wayne Trzyna

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Dear Ralph; Oh, Lord, man; you are great, just great!  I love it: you should be a writer or something.  

Yea, maybe he could write a guide about fishing the Sierra Nevada for trout. — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY

Response:

Yeah, the beavers are in their natural environment.  The Californian is not! This thread has been a lesson in mass-hysteria.  I don’t know whether Sandy has ever been to California, but he’s lived in Montana as long as I’ve known him.

I don’t know if Sandy has been to California either but I know that Ralph lives there and I lived in California all my life.  The environment that Ralph lived is nothing like the area that I lived.  So, I’m wondering, exactly what is a Californian’s natural environment, or does Jason just have some stereotypical view of what California is like. Sandy: do what you must with the beavers, but PLEASE don’t subdivide! If you Montanans continue to chop up Montana into little make-believe tourist ranches, as we have done to Colorado, where will I go on vacation?

Maybe Sandy should parcel off the 2/3rds to the readers of ROFF.  The only thing we’d have to figure out is what section Tim is going to get and where we’ll build the whore house. — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Let’s say you just bought 100 of the prettiest acres ever put up for sale in South West Montana…complete with 3/4 of a mile of a deep, clear, undercut spring creek, large brown trout, deer, sand hill cranes, ducks, geese, eagles, osprey, snipe, pheasants, badgers and beavers. And it’s only nine miles from town. You wanna sell off two thirty acre pieces and build on the third.   But the damn beavers are flooding the road so bad you’re afraid to list your property. Worse, they’re mowing down dense, thick, old-growth willows like a drunk redneck with a chainsaw. So you start shooting beavers. (this is still all totally hypothetical, mind you).  But the damn beavers start to get smart (after killing five in the first three nights) and start waiting till way after dark to come out of their lodge. So what’s the best way to kill beavers? Chloroform in the lodge? Hand grenades? What?

As long as the habitat is right, they will come back even if you kill them all right now.  Consider the South Platte corridor right through Denver. They can’t keep a young tree alive in this park-like setting for the beavers. My advice ?   One small cabin on the whole 100 acres on the dryest most protected spot. Your wealth would exceed that possible by sub-dividing and developing. Who knows, maybe the deer will visit you in your dreams. TimW

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This is a hot topic around here (NC) as well. Beaver populations are way up in suburbia – all their predators are gone and the beavers are protected in many areas. Many neighborhood lakes have trouble ranging from tree loss to damage to dams. I have lost a couple of trees on a lot I own to beavers. Sometimes they are trapped live and relocated, but there are fewer and fewer places to put them. I put chicken wire around the base of all the remaining trees. Nice simple solution for me – I only have a small lot to protect, and they can move on and bother someone else. But I can certainly understand how options might be limited in other cases. I am glad I don’t have to think about doing it, but I think there may be cases where it may be necessary. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So, if you want some kind of vote on who’s approach to an idiots QUESTION regarding beavers and beaver ponds is more acceptable . . . let my fellow fly fishermen post a few replies regarding "KILLING BEAVERS", is the preferred approach, okay ace?

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So, if you want some kind of vote on who’s approach to an idiots QUESTION regarding beavers and beaver ponds is more acceptable . . . let my fellow fly fishermen post a few replies regarding "KILLING BEAVERS", is the preferred approach, okay ace?

I can tell this must be some sort of religious thing for you George since you seem to evoke the christian deity frequently on this topic. However, if you want a vote I would say "It all depends" (no, I’m not running for office). For example, our family has had hunting-fishing property here since the 30’s or 40’s (that’s the last 50-60 years). There have never been beaver in that area. The last 4 years or so beaver have moved in and have devastated many areas for fishing. This situation would very likely reach a new equilibrium in about 20-30 years as the stream beds moved, swamps formed etc. However, since beaver are new there, we are not willing to sacrifice a generation of fishing to reach that point- sorry but that’s too bad. However, if the original poster bought land that had been long colonized by beaver and the ecosystem and trout reproduction were in equilibrium with the beaver, then I would say 1) don’t bother them and 2) they are probably so locally widespread that you will never make much headway since they will continually recolonize the area and 3) they probably don’t negatively impact the fishing under those conditions and may actually help and 4) don’t develop (subdivide) the land. Signing off without a deprecating remark. Jon

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Quoting: christ.  (Stick some dynamite up your ass and then light the fuse. It will solve your beaver problem to my satisfaction) George Gehrke/Professional Sportsman Any other readers see a paradox here? — Yeah, the beavers are in their natural environment.  The Californian is not!

JB

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Quoting: christ.  (Stick some dynamite up your ass and then light the fuse. It will solve your beaver problem to my satisfaction) George Gehrke/Professional Sportsman Any other readers see a paradox here? — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

Yah, the fact I missed mentioning you if you’re for killing beavers as a solution to every human who thinks they have a problem with beavers. They were here long before we arrived.  Seems "Man" cannot keep his hand off a spot on this earth for even a little bird to stand upon.  So, what is your problem that you cannot stand up for the life of one beaver?  Or two, or a family of them which make beautiful Brook Trout Ponds and rich soiled valley’s that produce in time . . . lush, green elk pastures or habitat for moose, etc? Instead of being a smart-ass and talking about fly tying and flies that are used on Beaver Ponds . . . your kind only can think of how to miss-manage our wildlife.  Right? right. So, if you want some kind of vote on who’s approach to an idiots QUESTION regarding beavers and beaver ponds is more acceptable . . . let my fellow fly fishermen post a few replies regarding "KILLING BEAVERS", is the preferred approach, okay ace? christ.. George Gehrke / Mr. Gink

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Quoting: christ.  (Stick some dynamite up your ass and then light the fuse. It will solve your beaver problem to my satisfaction) George Gehrke/Professional Sportsman

Any other readers see a paradox here? — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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Dear Ralph; Oh, Lord, man; you are great, just great!  I love it: you should be a writer or something.  You just took his post, stood on the complete opposite side of it, telling us like it is.  Just beautiful, man!  Those urbanites: now, with the age of delocation upon us, no wilderness is safe from their spoiling touch.  Keep up the good fight! Sincerely Jason Beary

Response:

  But the damn beavers are flooding the road so bad you’re afraid to list your property. Worse, they’re mowing down dense, thick, old-growth willows like a drunk redneck with a chainsaw. So you start shooting beavers. (this is still all totally hypothetical, mind you).  But the damn beavers start to get smart (after killing five in the first three nights) and start waiting till way after dark to come out of their lodge. So what’s the best way to kill beavers? Chloroform in the lodge? Hand

1.  Normal beaver life style includes excluding the young from the family i.e. forcing them to emigrate, when they get to be two years old.  So sooner or later the parent couple will die off and the site will become vacant. 2.  You can accelerate this by the combination of opportunistic shooting and trapping, easiest in winter when ice restricts their movement. Exterminating a single family seems to do no appreciable damage to the continent-wide beaver gene pool these days. 3.  But you need to bear in mind #1, i.e. there’s another beaver family two or three miles away that will be kicking its young adults out of the nest — and when they find your site vacant they will occupy it!  The cycle of occupation/vacancy seems to be 7 or 8 years.     As someone else posted, local wildlife authorities may (or may not) have better advice about both short-term and long-term control.  Beaver can do a lot of damage where species like poplar are abundant, e.g. can fell whole stands of mature trees and just leave them there without salvaging the proceeds. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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Let’s say you just bought 100 of the prettiest acres ever put up for sale in South West Montana…complete with 3/4 of a mile of a deep, clear, undercut spring creek, large brown trout, deer, sand hill cranes, ducks, geese, eagles, osprey, snipe, pheasants, badgers and beavers. And it’s only nine miles from town. You wanna sell off two thirty acre pieces and build on the third.   But the damn beavers are flooding the road so bad you’re afraid to list your property. Worse, they’re mowing down dense, thick, old-growth willows like a drunk redneck with a chainsaw. So you start shooting beavers. (this is still all totally hypothetical, mind you).  But the damn beavers start to get smart (after killing five in the first three nights) and start waiting till way after dark to come out of their lodge. So what’s the best way to kill beavers? Chloroform in the lodge? Hand grenades? What? —

Response:

So what’s the best way to kill beavers? Chloroform in the lodge? Hand grenades? What?

How about live trapping and relocation? — K.G. (Kat) Cruickshank, ichthyophile. Toronto, Ontario, Canada. see my illustrations at http://www.mackerel.com/fish/home.html

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Question:

I will be in the Fort Meyers and Naples area in June. Any suggestions as to guides that have experience and interest in fly fishing. Also any areas that I could try without a guide and suggested flies. Thanks-Alex

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Doug Swisher and Capt Bob Marvin run a saltwater flyfishing school and also guide out of Naples.  I’ve fished with both and they are super to spend a day on the water with. Doug goes back to trout in the summer months, but Capt Bob fishes there all year. call Naples information for Doug Swisher or bob Marvin.   you’ll have a ball. Reed

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Question:

Can anyone help me? I ‘ve been invited to go to the Salmon River in Pulaski, NY the first week of Nov. to go Steelhead fishing.  The guys who invited me do not FF.  I just started FF last fall and have never FF for Steelhead or Salmon.  I have an 8.5′  7/8 wt rod, currently loaded with 7wt WF Floating line.  I also have some Orivis Sink-Tip leaders with loops I’ve used to fish streamers and such.  How should I prepare for this trip?  What line/leader/tippet should I be rigging up?  What kind of flies should I use? How should I use them?  Should I buy them when I get there and ask what there biting on?  Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Don

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Check out the following URL and search on Pulaski or Steelhead, Salmon or NY and you will find all the information you need.  Hope this helps. Im leaving tomorrow for Pulaski (Salmon). http://www.adp.unc.edu/cgi-bin/wais-flyfish-q Good fish’n Bill A.

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Can anyone help me?

 I’m far from an expert, but here’s some quick thoughts: Think cold –  and prepare Eliminate any thoughts you might hold about using dry flys Prepare for crowds – just a fact of life on the Salmon. Plan on short line nymph fishing – sort of – with lots of weight. Dont bother buying flys or leader set ups before you arrive. Read what you can before hand but plan on buying flys at a local store.  Whitakers (sp) is pretty complete and there’s another fly shop ‘downtown’ by the river.   The bad news is some local patterns are pretty specialized (as in things like "butterscotch sucker spawn").  The good news is the flys are cheap. As for leaders, read what you can before hand but throw yourself on the mercy of a local shop.  I’ve found them very helpful in setting people up with legal rigs.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can anyone help me? I ‘ve been invited to go to the Salmon River in Pulaski, NY the first week of Nov. to go Steelhead fishing.  The guys who invited me do not FF.  I just started FF last fall and have never FF for Steelhead or Salmon.  I have an 8.5′  7/8 wt rod, currently loaded with 7wt WF Floating line.  I also have some Orivis Sink-Tip leaders with loops I’ve used to fish streamers and such.  How should I prepare for this trip?  What line/leader/tippet should I be rigging up?  What kind of flies should I use? How should I use them?  Should I buy them when I get there and ask what there biting on?  Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Don

I’ve never been fly fishing on the Salmon River, but I can tell you this: If you are going with buddies that aren’t fly fishing, you won’t be fishing anywhere near them, because the methods aren’t compatible.   I’ve caught thousands of steelhead from Michigan to Alaska and I’m leaving for Kodiak next week for a fishing vacation.  It is my opinion that steelhead take only two kinds of flies– bright flies and dark flies, so bring various sizes of both.   Since the water will probably be fairly cold when you get there, I would imagine most of the fish are on the bottom and won’t move very far for a fly.  You’ll have to dredge the bottom with sink tips rated 3,4, and 5 in 13 or 17 foot sections.  I’d fish light leaders, either 6,8, or 10# test. Then of course, you could just bring your gear rods and tie up a bunch of spawn… good luck. –Alaska man, on his friend’s account… —                         APP3L II R00LZ THE W00RLD, D00D!!!!!11

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Question:

: DOES ANYONE KNOW OF A QUALIFIED MAN OR WOMAN WHO WOULD BE : INTERESTED IN PROVIDING FLY CASTING CLASSES TO CUSTOMERS OF AN : ORVIS FULL DISTRIBUTORSHIP IN ALBUQUERQUE NM?  ALSO LOOKING FOR : LICENSED GUIDES WHO CAN WORK THE PECOS, RIO GRANDE, CIMARRON, OR : CHAMA.   Call Harry D. Knox…he has a great school…

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DOES ANYONE KNOW OF A QUALIFIED MAN OR WOMAN WHO WOULD BE INTERESTED IN PROVIDING FLY CASTING CLASSES TO CUSTOMERS OF AN ORVIS FULL DISTRIBUTORSHIP IN ALBUQUERQUE NM?  ALSO LOOKING FOR LICENSED GUIDES WHO CAN WORK THE PECOS, RIO GRANDE, CIMARRON, OR CHAMA.   — manuel monasterio

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The FFF now has a program of certified fly fishing instructors, as well as a directory of those who have been certified.  Contact them in Montana. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -DOES ANYONE KNOW OF A QUALIFIED MAN OR WOMAN WHO WOULD BE INTERESTED IN PROVIDING FLY CASTING CLASSES TO CUSTOMERS OF AN ORVIS FULL DISTRIBUTORSHIP IN ALBUQUERQUE NM?  ALSO LOOKING FOR LICENSED GUIDES WHO CAN WORK THE PECOS, RIO GRANDE, CIMARRON, OR CHAMA.   — manuel monasterio

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Question:

I am a begining fly fisherman and I am going to be working in canon city, co for the summer. I will be there from May 15- August 15. I would appreciate any suggestions on good places to fish, shops for flys, and approximate times of good hatches. In other words any help would be appreciated. thanks in advance. Paul

You’ll be living right by the headwaters of the Arkansas River, which has some decent trout (so I’ve heard, haven’t gotten down there yet). Also, you won’t be too far from the South Platte, which is pretty famous for awesome catch & release only, artificial flies & lures (barbless hooks) only fishing. The South Platte will be about 1.5 to 2 hours drive from Canon City, either north into Colorado Springs and then West on route 24 to Woodland Park, and north on route 67 to Deckers, or continue through Woodland Park to Lake George, and go up Elevenmile Canyon road (3 dollar access fee you pay at a self-serve station), to the river. I’m still new at the insect hatches, so can’t give you anything of value in that area. Pick up a copy of the Colorado Angling Guide when you get here, or before if you can find it. It’s got a nice collection of Forest Service maps of the areas. As for shops, I know the Angler’s Covey on 8th and West Colorado Ave in Colorado Springs is a great place for fly fishing supplies and advice, although you should be able to find something in Canon City as well, use the yellow pages. — Scott Ferguson                               My views are not necessarily Cray Computer Corporation                    those of Cray Computer Corp.

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I am a begining fly fisherman and I am going to be working in canon city, co for the summer. I will be there from May 15- August 15. I would appreciate any suggestions on good places to fish, shops for flys, and approximate times of good hatches. In other words any help would be appreciated. thanks in advance. Paul

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Question:

I am in need of some fly-fishing spots.  I live in the Chicago area . . .

I, too, live near Chicago and have been looking for places to go that are nearby.  So far as I can tell, there’s not one bloody trout stream anywhere in the state.  The good news is that just a short hop away, in SW Wisconsin (I’m told) there are some fairly decent trout streams, some of which are designated no-kill streams.  I’ve also heard of various streams in Michigan that might be decent, but don’t know any specifics. I got this information from the Trout & Grouse store, which is located in Northfield (right off the Edens expressway).  I took a fly-fishing course there just recently (I’m just beginning), and they apparently have guides that know these WI and MI streams really well.  Sorry, I don’t have their phone or address handy, though I’m sure they’re in the directory if you want to give them a call. Hope this helps.  Keith — Keith Ludwig, Odesta Systems Corporation,

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Being a displaced Coloradoan here in the land of Lincoln, I am in need of some fly-fishing spots.  I live in the Chicago area . . . does anyone have any suggestions or secret spots they might care to divulge.  I will throw a fly at anything but catfish or carp Thanks, Kevin

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