Question:

I love how predictably I can stir up this hornet’s nest anytime I please. I simply don’t understand why you don’t ignore my taunts. Try it once, and reclaim your newsgroup. — Citizen Fisherman one can’t be ostracized from a vacuum…

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Dick Head said: << I love how predictably I can stir up this hornet’s nest anytime I please. I That’s pretty obvious. What I don’t understand is why you would want to stir things up. Are you a jerk or what?

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Dick Head said: << I love how predictably I can stir up this hornet’s nest anytime I please. I That’s pretty obvious. What I don’t understand is why you would want to stir things up. Are you a jerk or what?

The former.   What I don’t understand is how consistently achieving the predictable holds much fascination at all, much less being deserving of self-congratulation. Joe F.

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Yup, got the accounts mixed….. john "

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I love how predictably I can stir up this hornet’s nest anytime I please. I simply don’t understand why you don’t ignore my taunts. Try it once, and reclaim your newsgroup.

Yeah man ! Aren’t you a cool guy ! Just got back from a whitefish journey. First thing this morning, though, caught (and released) 2 *gorgeous* browns 16" and 18". The average whitefish has gotten huge [around 3 pounds]. I have the fillets of 8 of them brining. The trout would have been excellent smoked, but I was after whitefish. There was a brutal carnage of these fish. In the morning we saw the ‘first guard’ of several pods of around 20 fish were in the creek. Then the people arrived, a church group and more. Thye just got in the water with them. They threw rocks at them and laughed. This went on all day. When I left I could not find any fish in the creek except a dead one wedged in a rock. It was very sad to me. Three men talked with me while I caught a nice one in the main river. When they saw it one asked if it was a rainbow trout. They went up in the creek and one of them came back with a whitefish he had caught with his hands. He asked me if he could keep it and I told him that, if he had a license, he’d probably be OK. He did not. A little while later I saw him again. He asked where he could catch a salmon. I told him, maybe Reudi. He asked where he could catch a salmon in Denver. I told him I did not know. About an hour later I saw them with some other people and they had filled a kitchen sized trash bag with fish they caught, I think by throwing rocks at them. Wierd carnage. One lady took the roe from all of my fish to feed her bloodhound. I though that was pretty cool. I mean, I do not eat whitefish roe. I saw literally buckets, shop buckets, full of fish hauled out. It did not bother me. At least the guys that obviously had smoke houses ready to accept the fish. It was the people killing them for no reason that really bugged me and the people that obviously would throw them away if they did keep them. These whitefish were very easy to hook but hard to catch. They’d get into the strong current and even with the 6 weight and 4X, you had no choice but to get running downstream. Almost always they’d ball up the tackle. Frieght trains. While you could feel the head shake that made you pretty certain it was a whitefish, you really did not know if it was a large brown or a whitefish until you could see it. This made for some exciting fishing. One guy told me that if I steamed them and removed the meat I could mix it with eggs and cracker crumbs and spices and fry it in a mock crab cake or make tacos with the meat that it was excellent. He said you can also freeze the steamed meat and it would keep. All in all, very good ideas. In the afternoon we moved down and I hooked 6 fish, landed 3 [2 browns and a bow] all were around 16. The bow was very fat in the shoulders and deep bodied, at least 5 inches. An extremely nice fish. None of them faught a fraction as hard as any of the whitefish. I had a fish get off that was the proverbial ‘I thought it was a snag’. I really did think it was a snag, and I pulled *hard* when it just started moving away slowly. The hook straightened, and I lost him. It was a TMC 2457. My minds eye tells me it was a brown. Five pounds. At least. Your pal, — TBone Walker The Halfordian Golfer

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Just got back from a whitefish journey. First thing this morning, though, caught (and released) 2 *gorgeous* browns 16" and 18". The average whitefish has gotten huge [around 3 pounds]. I have the fillets of 8 of them brining. The trout would have been excellent smoked, but I was after whitefish.

Thanks for the report.  That rock throwing etc. on the whitefish was too weird. Where was this? I’ve never come across anything like that. Willi

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There was a brutal carnage of these fish. In the morning we saw the ‘first guard’ of several pods of around 20 fish were in the creek. Then the people arrived, a church group and more. Thye just got in the water with them. They threw rocks at them and laughed. This went on all day.

???? a church group? that is wierd…. too damn weird. –waldo

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Just got back from a whitefish journey. First thing this morning, though, caught (and released) 2 *gorgeous* browns 16" and 18". The average whitefish has gotten huge [around 3 pounds]. I have the fillets of 8 of them brining. The trout would have been excellent smoked, but I was after whitefish.

Yeah, that’s what I tell the guys too, heh heh. While you could feel the head shake that made you pretty certain it was a whitefish, you really did not know if it was a large brown or a whitefish until you could see it. This made for some exciting fishing.

I wish I could get over that bummer when I find out it’s *not* a large brown

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Then the people arrived, a church group and more. Thye just got in the water with them. They threw rocks at them and laughed. This went on all day.

Throwing rocks at a baptism seems like an unconventional way to welcome a new convert. To each his own, I guess. –Steve

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There was a brutal carnage of these fish. In the morning we saw the ‘first guard’ of several pods of around 20 fish were in the creek. Then the people arrived, a church group and more. Thye just got in the water with them. They threw rocks at them and laughed. This went on all day. ???? a church group? that is wierd…. too damn weird.

They probably caught two, tried to feed multitudes, and, failing that, decided to stone the rest. JR

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…..I wish I could get over that bummer when I find out it’s *not* a large brown

You should.  You would be doing yourself a favor.  I caught as many whitefish as trout on a trip to southwest Montana some years ago and enjoyed them every bit as much.  Whitefish are eager to take a fly, put up as good a fight as trout, are attractive in their own right, and are quite tasty.  While I understand the appeal of targeting a particular species on a given outing, I am never bothered by the serendipitous catch of another, and particularly so when it introduces me to a species with a lot of good characteristics (from an angler’s point of view) and to which I had never given any consideration.  Hell, I’d go back just to stupid old trout.      :( Wolfgang chubs now……damn, what i wouldn’t give to tie into a mess of nice four inch chubs!

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Throwing rocks at a baptism seems like an unconventional way to welcome a new convert. To each his own, I guess.

Sounds to me like there’s a distressing shortage of sinners in that crowd. Wolfgang don’t s’pose i’d fit in real good.      :(

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Just got back from a whitefish journey. First thing this morning, though, caught (and released) 2 *gorgeous* browns 16" and 18". The average whitefish has gotten huge [around 3 pounds]. I have the fillets of 8 of them brining. The trout would have been excellent smoked, but I was after whitefish. Thanks for the report.  That rock throwing etc. on the whitefish was too weird. Where was this? I’ve never come across anything like that.

Let’s just say it was at an interstate rest area. I’ll tell you exactly where in email or when I see you. You’ve probably already figured it out from the clues. There was a pedestrian bridge over the creek and a colorful sign depicting the life cycle of the Whitefish. I think it was titled "A Colorado Native". In the morning a delightful couple excitedly pointed out the fish to us. It’s too bad that travelers after about 2 in the afternoon would have seen no fish, or just the few dead ones. I don’t think the church group was all that bad. It was just teenage girls and boys with their shoes off…for the hour or so break from the bus journey they were on. The guys were chasing and teasing the girls with the whitefish, just like you and I would have done. That kind of thing. Fairly harmless. I think that as a reasonable ‘pattern of positive behavior’ there’s an ethical compromise. Once fish make the spawning tributary they should be proected. It takes a fair amount of skill to catch them in the main river. That would enforce some degree of ‘fair chase’ to the equation. You’d have to at least care enough about what you’re doing to pick up a license and a rod and reel and to fish for them. Not just a big rock. I was thinking….I bet the people that left with a trash bag full probably thought we were wasting our time, fishing for them with nymphs, I mean…it took a while to get just a few with the fly rod…they got 50 in 10 minutes by throwing them up on the rocks with their hands. I feel fairly strongly that the fish in the creek should be enjoyed by the people stopping in at the rest area. It’s a marvel of nature and very impressive. Just the education that the Rainbow trout is not native to Colorado but the Whitefish are, would probably be interesting to thinking people that would probably otherwise never know. I’m formatting the words to the letter to the CDOW and local papers in my head as we speak. I’m thinking more on these human/wildlife ‘patterns’ as regarding reccomendations and paradigms. Your pal, — TBone Walker The Halfordian Golfer

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"TBone" .    That would enforce some degree of ‘fair chase’ to the equation. You’d have to at least care enough about what you’re doing to pick up a license and a rod and reel and to fish for them.

I hate to say it……but even a few minor – ENFORCED – regulations have an enormous result in the amount of streamside litter, diminished negative behavior and overall improvement that it is time to consider such things for all streams. You eliminate a whole class of people. john

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..and you get my first <SPLORK john

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???? a church group? that is wierd…. too damn weird. –waldo

It would seem like it until you’ve had some experience with church groups and the outdoors.  They should restrict themselves to city parks and playgrounds, where they know what’s happening.  On what used to be my favorite part of my favorite river, they’ve proven themselves to be almost as obnoxious as the beer for breakfast bunch and rather more dangerous.  Mostly, thank (heaven?) to themselves, but it’s painful to watch and to try to give them a clue when they get really odd and the kids are likely to be dumped, drown, get hypothermia or any combination of the former.  While some of them don’t believe Darwin was correct, they sometimes seem intent on proving his theories. — rbc:  vixen    Fairly harmless remove invalid or hit reply to email. Though I’m very slow to respond. http://www.visi.com/~cyli

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They probably caught two, tried to feed multitudes, and, failing that, decided to stone the rest. JR

…god, now that’s funny!!! jeff (brimstone, anyone?)

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They probably caught two, tried to feed multitudes, and, failing that, decided to stone the rest. JR …god, now that’s funny!!! jeff (brimstone, anyone?)

Agreed. ROFLOL. — TBone Walker The Halfordian Golfer

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Question:

I’m considering purchasing a sit-on-top kayak for flyfishing the flats and marshes on the Texas Coast.  The model I’ve been lusting after is the Ocean Kayak Frenzy.  Does anybody have any input re: fishing from these kayaks, or any type of kayak?  

I have a Wilderness System’s Ride and it’s great to fish from. I don’t think I could tip it over if I wanted to. — Charlie…

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My experience with SOT’s is that they are wet and you need to wear neoprene on cool days. I have fished from my Folbot double kayak with OK results. Too bad inflatables are deflatables. I am now looking at the Kiwi Lobo and the Poke Boat.  Duck hunters like the Poke, so it is probably the most commodious.  However, the Lobo is supposed to be way nicer to paddle. Ken (to reply via email remove "zz" from address)

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I recently purchased a Cobra Explorer Sit on Top.  These sit on tops are great and I already been doing very well both in salt and fresh water with it.   Damian NuWave Tackle Innovative products designed by fishermen for fishermen Fly Tying / Rod Building Equipment, Tackle… http://www.nuwavetackle.com/

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I’ve been using a Prism by Perception for about four months now and am pleased with the overall performance. It tracks well,is quiet, and quick. Did an overnighter float from below Austin, Texas to Bastrop and was pleasantly surprised by just how many unnecessary items I could fit into the two large hatches. …downsides: The bottom of the boat where your feet rest always has water in it. easily two inches of water. Can’t stand up on it. If you have decent balance, you can stand up to cast with a Malibu 2, but try paddling one of those tankers. I’ve also seen the front end dip under water when paddling with and riding some small waves kicked up by the wind. and this is on a lake, no telling how it would do in surf.   Casting sitting down is not a problem, I just can’t cast as far. It’s fun to fish from  and( a decent sized fish will drag you around), to me, the space in the hatches outweighs the water at my feet. I’ve taken to placing a couple of those car-top foam blocks under the footpegs… keeps the feet dry. Good luck, PZ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m considering purchasing a sit-on-top kayak for flyfishing the flats and marshes on the Texas Coast.  The model I’ve been lusting after is the Ocean Kayak Frenzy.  Does anybody have any input re: fishing from these kayaks, or any type of kayak?  Has anybody tried casting from these kayaks? The Frenzy is appealing to me because (1) it is relatively inexpensive ($400); (2) it looks quite versatile (can be used in whitewater and the surf as well); and (3) it appears to be easily transported. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, RD

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m considering purchasing a sit-on-top kayak for flyfishing the flats and marshes on the Texas Coast.  The model I’ve been lusting after is the Ocean Kayak Frenzy.  Does anybody have any input re: fishing from these kayaks, or any type of kayak?  Has anybody tried casting from these kayaks? The Frenzy is appealing to me because (1) it is relatively inexpensive ($400); (2) it looks quite versatile (can be used in whitewater and the surf as well); and (3) it appears to be easily transported. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, RD

Talking it over with the SO (she says the only real advantage to the Frenzy is smaller females can rack it easily, but I agree it is more river-friendly, FWIW) and another kayaking friend, we agree with your points 1, 2, and 3, but have you looked at the O.K. Scrambler?  A little bigger, more stable – done the Yucatan, Alaska, Keys, Texas Coast, etc. on one, you can even easily dive from one – but again, not quite as easy handling on a river.  Have you talked to Southwest Paddle Sports?  They have a website I think.  Talk to Patty and tell her Eliz and the gang from Ft. Worth set ya.   HTH? TC, R

Response:

I’m considering purchasing a sit-on-top kayak for flyfishing the flats and marshes on the Texas Coast.  The model I’ve been lusting after is the Ocean Kayak Frenzy.  Does anybody have any input re: fishing from these kayaks, or any type of kayak?  Has anybody tried casting from these kayaks? The Frenzy is appealing to me because (1) it is relatively inexpensive ($400); (2) it looks quite versatile (can be used in whitewater and the surf as well); and (3) it appears to be easily transported. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, RD

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Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

I know nothing of kayaks but so long as you’re soliciting feedback please allow me to congratulate you on one of your quips that has long been one of my favorite quotes: When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.                                   -Raoul Duke- — Ken Fortenberry

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sitting in (a kayak not music) has to be more stable (secure not horse) than sitting on top ( boats not se…..never mind) john (I’m fishin out of a keowee) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m considering purchasing a sit-on-top kayak for flyfishing the flats and marshes on the Texas Coast.  The model I’ve been lusting after is the Ocean Kayak Frenzy.  Does anybody have any input re: fishing from these kayaks, or any type of kayak?  Has anybody tried casting from these kayaks? The Frenzy is appealing to me because (1) it is relatively inexpensive ($400); (2) it looks quite versatile (can be used in whitewater and the surf as well); and (3) it appears to be easily transported. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, RD

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Question:

My favorite river appears to have a hatch of what somebody told me was Crane Flys.  The insects torso hangs below the wings and the bottom of the torso comes around and looks like it connects with the thorax.  Imagine a flying J with wings on the top part of the J and you have the insect I am talking about. Does anybody have any information on these insects and if so, what patterns best imitate them. Thanks! Mike Wilson Fishing!! What else is there?

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FlyFis4fun: <<Does anybody have any information on these insects and if so, what patterns best imitate them. Patterns are in "Fly Patterns of Umpqua Feather Merchants", and Stewrt/Allen’s "Flies for trout".  Both adult and larva patterns are listed.  I can not imagine the crane fly as a major hatch, but if you say so…… Dave LaCourse

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My favorite river appears to have a hatch of what somebody told me was Crane Flys.  The insects torso hangs below the wings and the bottom of the torso comes around and looks like it connects with the thorax.  Imagine a flying J with wings on the top part of the J and you have the insect I am talking about.

If they are indeed crane flies, also know as "daddy long legs" they belong to the family tipulidae, and are terrestrials which often fall on the water in considerable numbers, especially when it is windy,  being very clumsy fliers.  They are often imitated using long trailing knotted pheasant tail or nylon legs, body, hackle, and hackle tip spent wings to match the colour, usually from light tan to dark brown, but olive and yellow variations are also common.  An excellent pattern may be made using detached buoyant mayfly bodies. TL MC

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Thanks for the information gentleman but it appears that the insect that I am seeing is something other then the Crane Fly.   The insect in question, as afore mentioned, is a pale tan to whiteish tan and flys with its torso bent around to connect near its thorax.  It hatches in fair numbers though I must admit, I have never seen any of them actually land on the water.  The primary food on this river is Stone Flys so this is more of a question exploration then anything else. Thanks for the help so far. Mike

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks for the information gentleman but it appears that the insect that I am seeing is something other then the Crane Fly. The insect in question, as afore mentioned, is a pale tan to whiteish tan and flys with its torso bent around to connect near its thorax.  It hatches in fair numbers though I must admit, I have never seen any of them actually land on the water.  The primary food on this river is Stone Flys so this is more of a question exploration then anything else. Thanks for the help so far. Mike

Hi Mike, how big is this insect ?  Does it hatch from the water, or does it just appear on the water ? TL MC

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Many Crane Fly species are terrestial, living in damp soil.  Aquatic species are usually found in streams with bottoms of fine gravel silt or sand.  Pupation usually takes place in damp soil along stream margins and is therefore of little account to the flyfisherperson. The larvae are simple and tube like and usually not available to fish as they burrow rather deeply and have no swimming abilities.  They are available during spates and may be represented by wooly worms.  The "Muskrat", an old Polly Rosborough pattern is another Crane Fly larva imitation.  Adults seem to be more available during light summer rains and may be represented by any appropriately sized and colored dry fly. As I write this I am watching a hiuge cranefly llumbering around the room….here in the Northwest there is a species that frequents lawns(well watered) and in climax years actually causes quite a bit of damage to the turf. Thanks for the information gentleman but it appears that the insect that I am seeing is something other then the Crane Fly.   The insect in question, as afore mentioned, is a pale tan to whiteish tan and flys with its torso bent around to connect near its thorax.  It hatches in fair numbers though I must admit, I have never seen any of them actually land on the water.  The primary food on this river is Stone Flys so this is more of a question exploration then anything else. Thanks for the help so far. Mike

– Mike in PDX "When the trout are lost, smash the state."                          Tom McGuane

Response:

The insect in question, as afore mentioned, is a pale tan to whiteish tan and flys with its torso bent around to connect near its thorax.  It hatches in fair numbers though I must admit, I have never seen any of them actually land on the water.  The primary food on this river is Stone Flys so this is more of a question exploration then anything else. Thanks for the help so far. Mike

Hello Mike, I sometimes fish a limestone stream in Eastern Pennsylvania  where Orange Craneflys (orange head) gather in clusters all along the stream banks and edge of water.  The locals have an easy to tie pattern for the orange cranefly that is very effective..  Basically, your going to tie a dry fly without a tail or wings — just body, legs, & head.   Very lightly dubbed muskrat body with Dun colored hackle, use orange thread and build a small head.  I hope this helps. Dave

Response:

My favorite river appears to have a hatch of what somebody told me was Crane Flys.  The insects torso hangs below the wings and the bottom of the torso comes around and looks like it connects with the thorax.  Imagine a flying J with wings on the top part of the J and you have the insect I am talking about. If they are indeed crane flies, also know as "daddy long legs"

I don’t know about where you live, Mike, but in the US Crane Flies and Daddy Long Legs are not at all the same thing. Crane Flies actually have wings and fly. They look like gigantic mosquitoes, but they don’t bite. Daddy Long Legs look like large spiders (but they aren’t spiders). They don’t have wings.

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Crane Flies:   When I was in Ireland a few summers ago, the gillie taught me how to "dibble" for salmon: He put a relatively heavy wet fly at the end of my leader, and then a bushy dry fly on a dropper, about 6′ up from the tippet.   The idea was to use the wet fly as an anchor, and then bob the rod tip, so the dry fly danced on the surface of the water…on the surface one second, then suddenly 6" above, like a big bug jumping up and down on the water.   So I haven’t tried this over hear yet, frankly, but talking about it did lead to some interesting new information. I told this story to George Anderson,   and he said  "Sure, the guys over in Dillon (MT) have been fishing the crane fly hatch on the Beaverhead that way for years!" — /* Sandy Pittendrigh                  –oO0  * http://www.nervana.montana.edu/~sandy  */

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They look like giant mosquitoes…so how about a size 2 mosquito??? George

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Fish the larvae The trout eat them Lots easier to tie too… a Beaver leech — Free Lake Fly Fishing On-Line Magazine Lake Fly Fishing CD’s, Videos, Books http://www.rural.escape.ca/angling_north/fishing/organz.htm

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Question:

Because there are so many models of  fly lines available, selection can get pretty confusing.  I have a huge amount of info about fly lines on the Tech Info page of my web site.  I’d suggest you punch up the following address: "http://www.thegrid.net/flyfish/LineSpec.html"  and then click on the hyperlink "Line Tapers" and read that section.  It covers the subject pretty thoroughly.

To Dan, Bill, and all the others in this thread: Thank you, thank you, thank you!  Dan’s web page on line tapers and design specs is a *wonderful* resource for deciding on line types.  I think I’m starting to understand what kind of line I’ll be needing for the small streams and lakes I’ll be fishing. It’s good to see that newsgroups still have good folks who can provide really useful information these days.  I really appreciate the help. Thanks again, Joe G. Tehachapi, CA

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speaking for myself…a weight forward is not necessary on small streams. In fact, it will kind of splash down and make a lot of noise, I only yuse a weight forward for long hauls and big poppers.  for small streams stick with the doublt taper and in five years you can turn it around and use the other end. If you don’t really know how much money to spend, econmize, but take care of your lines with dressing for a long life….john – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m still using the first fly line I’ve ever gotten (received as a gift), which is a 3M DT-6-F.  Luckily, it happened to match the noodle-ey rod I learned on, and when I got good enough to move up a notch and buy a pretty good graphite rod (St. Croix), I just moved the whole setup to the new rod. But, I’m ready to try a new line.  I want to try a weight-forward line, and I plan to use it on relatively small-to-medium streams and waters, mostly here in the Easter Sierra Nevadas where I live.  I’d prefer a floating line for my style of fishing. But I’m overwhelmed with the choices!  I’ve read all the ads in my Orvis and LL Bean catalogs, as well as hit a couple of web pages, but I’m still at a loss.  What’s the real scoop?  Is a $40 line really that much better than a $12 one?  I honestly don’t know, since I’ve only ever used my 3M cheapie line. I’d love to hear some real-world experiences, so I can maybe whittle down the choices a bit, and choose the right line for me.  Can you folks help out a not-so-newbie-but-still-ignorant-about-fly-lines?  I’d really appreciate it.  Thanks in advance. Joe G. Tehachapi, CA

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I agree with staying with a DT line in small waters.   A good quality fly line is worth the money, it will float higher and longer and will not crack and soak water as a cheap line will. Good Fishing; Jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – But, I’m ready to try a new line.  I want to try a weight-forward line, and I plan to use it on relatively small-to-medium streams and waters, mostly here in the Easter Sierra Nevadas where I live.  I’d prefer a floating line for my style of fishing. Hi Joseph, I know there are those who will disagree with me on this one, but if you intend fishing *small*/*medium* streams with a floating line, then I would go for a double taper every time for the sake of superior presentation.  A weight forward line will give you an easier cast when you are looking for a bit extra distance, without too much emphasis on the presentation. FWIW thats what I think. — Bill

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I cut a DT line in half and put it on a reel for use on small streams.  My son took it to the Lamar River in Yellowstone without knowing he only had 1/2 of a line.  It was cold and he had to wade over the top of his hip waders to reach the places where the fish were holding.  Ask him what he thinks of cutting a line in half.   — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-Mail GO TO http://www.ccnet.com/~emh FOR ECONOMY WADING BOOT PLANS – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   Another reason to buy a DT:  Cut it in half, you’ve now got two lines and since you’re fishing small streams, you’re not going to be holding 45 feet of line in the air…   You don’t have to cut the line in two to get the equivalent of two lines, just reverse it when one end gets worn. Willi

Response:

You should purchase the best line you can afford.  Cheap floating lines soon become sink tips, and full sinking lines.  If you have a local shop ask if you can cast some.  They generally have some lines on demo reels.  See which feel best on your rod.  I like stay away from the Cortland Lazer line.  SA has many very good lines, and get a good line cleaner when you get the line. Good Luck

Response:

  Another reason to buy a DT:  Cut it in half, you’ve now got two lines and since you’re fishing small streams, you’re not going to be holding 45 feet of line in the air…

  You don’t have to cut the line in two to get the equivalent of two lines, just reverse it when one end gets worn. Willi

Response:

speaking for myself…a weight forward is not necessary on small streams. In fact, it will kind of splash down and make a lot of noise, I only yuse a weight forward for long hauls and big poppers.  for small streams stick with the doublt taper and in five years you can turn it around and use the other end. If you don’t really know how much money to spend, econmize, but take care of your lines with dressing for a long life….john

The statement John makes about WF being less delicate is no longer *necessarily* true.  If the WF has a short front taper (~4ft.) then it will be less delicate and will disturb the water more than a standard DT line.  If it has a front taper of ~6ft. it will be just as delicate as the standard DT which also have ~6ft. of front taper.  There are so many different variations available of both, that it’s no longer a valid generality about WF vs. DT lines.  In the Cortland lines, the WF is *more* delicate than their DT because in that brand the front taper of the WF is considerably longer than the taper on their DT.  In this thread, Bill Kienne recommends using the Cortland DT line because it has a shorter taper than the WF in that brand.  You need to know how long the front taper is on both types of lines of them to judge the delicacy you can expect.  Again, I’d recommend a look at my web page on fly lines (http://www.thegrid.net/flyfish/LineSpec.html) for more info about tapers and how they affect the performance of the line. Another caution, if you decide on the DT for the sake of economy, be sure to turn the line around every 6 months to be able to use both tapers. If you wait 5 years to turn it around, the unused end of the DT will be ruined from being coiled so tightly on the reel. I second John’s recommendation to clean and dress your lines for longer life.                                 hope this helps,                                       Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools Mt. Shasta Fly Fishing Schools http://www.thegrid.net/flyfish

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m still using the first fly line I’ve ever gotten (received as a gift), which is a 3M DT-6-F.  Luckily, it happened to match the noodle-ey rod I learned on, and when I got good enough to move up a notch and buy a pretty good graphite rod (St. Croix), I just moved the whole setup to the new rod. But, I’m ready to try a new line.  I want to try a weight-forward line, and I plan to use it on relatively small-to-medium streams and waters, mostly here in the Easter Sierra Nevadas where I live.  I’d prefer a floating line for my style of fishing. But I’m overwhelmed with the choices!  I’ve read all the ads in my Orvis and LL Bean catalogs, as well as hit a couple of web pages, but I’m still at a loss.  What’s the real scoop?  Is a $40 line really that much better than a $12 one?  I honestly don’t know, since I’ve only ever used my 3M cheapie line. I’d love to hear some real-world experiences, so I can maybe whittle down the choices a bit, and choose the right line for me.  Can you folks help out a not-so-newbie-but-still-ignorant-about-fly-lines?  I’d really appreciate it.  Thanks in advance. Joe G. Tehachapi, CA  Another reason to buy a DT:  Cut it in half, you’ve now got two lines and since you’re fishing small streams, you’re not going to be holding 45 feet of line in the air…

Hi All, We recommend double tapers for short to medium casting on streams. You can turn the line around ever season to get double the value. Double tapers have shorter front tapers, so they load up the rod better with very little line out past the tip. I don’t recommend cutting the line in half unless your reel is too small. From #3 to #5 this works well, but at a #6 we go to weight forward line as those larger rods are used on lakes and larger rivers. Besides, a double taper #6 floater will take up a lot of room on a reel, leaving little or no space for backing. I like the Scientific Angler Mastery Head Start line at $29.95 (WF only) or the Cortland Peach 444 line (DT or WF) at $36 for the best values in fly lines. Below this price level  you get into lines that don’t shoot very well. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

Response:

writes: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I’m still using the first fly line I’ve ever gotten (received as a gift), which is a 3M DT-6-F.  Luckily, it happened to match the noodle-ey rod I learned on, and when I got good enough to move up a notch and buy a pretty good graphite rod (St. Croix), I just moved the whole setup to the new rod. But, I’m ready to try a new line.  I want to try a weight-forward line, and I plan to use it on relatively small-to-medium streams and waters, mostly here in the Easter Sierra Nevadas where I live.  I’d prefer a floating line for my style of fishing. But I’m overwhelmed with the choices!  I’ve read all the ads in my Orvis and LL Bean catalogs, as well as hit a couple of web pages, but I’m still at a loss.  What’s the real scoop?  Is a $40 line really that much better than a $12 one?  I honestly don’t know, since I’ve only ever used my 3M cheapie line. I’d love to hear some real-world experiences, so I can maybe whittle down the choices a bit, and choose the right line for me.  Can you folks help out a not-so-newbie-but-still-ignorant-about-fly-lines?  I’d really appreciate it.  Thanks in advance.

Hi Joe, Whether you get a better presentation from a DT or a WF line depends on the front taper of the line and varies from manufacturer to manufacturer.  Most people believe you get a better presentation with the DT lines because they have a longer front taper than the WF lines. It used to be common for WF lines to have ~4ft. long front tapers and DT to have ~6ft. long front tapers.   That is no longer necessarily so.  The Orvis WF and DT lines (with the exception of specialty lines) have exactly the same specs for the first 37 ft.(6ft. long front tapers).  SA supposedly changed their tapers a couple of years ago to similar specs.  Cortland however has 10ft. to as much as an 18ft.of front taper on some of their WF lines and ~8ft. on their DT lines.  Bill Kienne may be able to give us better specifics on the Cortland and SA lines. So if you get an Orvis or SA line, the WF will be just as delicate as the DT line.  With a Cortland line the WF will be *more delicate* than their DT line. In all cases the WF will allow you to make longer casts if you decide to fish Lake Crowley, the Mammoth Lakes, or the June Lakes Loop area.   The only time I recommend a DT line anymore is for making long (60 ft or so) roll casts which are much more difficult to do with a WF line (hard to put enough energy into the skinny runny line of a WF to turn over the belly section). Because there are so many models of  fly lines available, selection can get pretty confusing.  I have a huge amount of info about fly lines on the Tech Info page of my web site.  I’d suggest you punch up the following address: "http://www.thegrid.net/flyfish/LineSpec.html"  and then click on the hyperlink "Line Tapers" and read that section.  It covers the subject pretty thoroughly.                              Hope this helps,                                      Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools Mt. Shasta Fly Fishing Schools http://www.thegrid.net/flyfish

Response:

I’m still using the first fly line I’ve ever gotten (received as a gift), which is a 3M DT-6-F.  Luckily, it happened to match the noodle-ey rod I learned on, and when I got good enough to move up a notch and buy a pretty good graphite rod (St. Croix), I just moved the whole setup to the new rod.

Joe,  You’ll find that roll-cast pickups, which you’ll use a lot on small to medium sized streams, are much easier with a double-taper….A GOOD double-taper….and unfortunately…the $40+ lines ARE a better made line than the real cheapies.  You can throw a line pretty well with a few of the better cheapies, but you’ll really notice a vast improvement in your casting with a better line….Ultra3…Cortland_SL..Orvis’s Hy-Float floater.  Try a couple before you buy if you can…they all are slightly different in their casting characteristics….I forgot the Triangle-Tapers!     You’ll enjoy the whole experience more with a better line, steve

Response:

I would not go with a WF but stay with the DT. The DT has a much better presentation on small to medium streams.

You think so?  I was hoping to be able to cast upstream a bit further, and i thought maybe a WF line would help me.  But if the DT is better for all-around angling in small streams, I guess I’ll stick with that. Thus the reason I carry at least two spools. Alas lets not forget the sinking. So there are three spools to get.

Argh.  After I got hooked on fly fishing, I bit the bullet and bought an Orvis Battenkill 5/6 reel.  It’s a good, solid reel, but I couldn’t afford the durn extra spools, so I’ll have to wait until I’m good enough to justify the extra spool costs.  If I knew then what I know now, maybe I would have saved the bucks on the reel, and bought a cheaper reel body that came with cheaper spools.  Live and learn.     But what I think you’re asking is what brand to use?? I have had good luck with CORTLAND, and ORVIS.

Yes.  There are so many brand names and it’s pretty confusing.  When it comes to spin-casting, I’ve tried just about any line out there, because it’s just a matter of $5-$15 tops for different styles/makes/brands of monofilament (and even for braided lines).  But when I’m going to drop $40-$50 on ONE fly line, I want to try to educate myself a little more. It may not be a big investment for some folks, but for me, I’ve gotta save my pennies for a while to drop the money for my own toys (I have a baby son whose priorities are a little higher than my own right now). What I’m looking for is real-world experiences from fly fishers who are more experienced than me, so I won’t get stuck with a lemon of a fly line that I’ll have to live with for a couple of seasons. Thanks for the help, James. Joe G. Tehachapi, CA

Response:

I would agree with you Bill.  I fish the Eastern and Western Sierras and a double taper is all I ever use.   — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-Mail GO TO http://www.ccnet.com/~emh FOR ECONOMY WADING BOOT PLANS – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – But, I’m ready to try a new line.  I want to try a weight-forward line, and I plan to use it on relatively small-to-medium streams and waters, mostly here in the Easter Sierra Nevadas where I live.  I’d prefer a floating line for my style of fishing. Hi Joseph, I know there are those who will disagree with me on this one, but if you intend fishing *small*/*medium* streams with a floating line, then I would go for a double taper every time for the sake of superior presentation.  A weight forward line will give you an easier cast when you are looking for a bit extra distance, without too much emphasis on the presentation. FWIW thats what I think. — Bill

Response:

Joe,     I would not go with a WF but stay with the DT. The DT has a much better presentation on small to medium streams. For bigger water and high winds I would use a WF. Thus the reason I carry at least two spools. Alas lets not forget the sinking. So there are three spools to get.     But what I think you’re asking is what brand to use?? I have had good luck with CORTLAND, and ORVIS. Cortland 444 I found to be a great line and it has the specifics of the line printed on it so if you ever take it off your real you will be able to tell what the heck it was. I find my lines usually last a couple of seasons with proper care. So protect your investment (about $40.00 to $50.00) with a good line care product.     Also I found putting out about $40.00 for a fly line is well worth it I had some bad experiences with the less expensive brands. If you plan on practicing your casting on anything but water I would keep the old line to get beat up instead of the new one. Hope this helps.

Response:

But, I’m ready to try a new line.  I want to try a weight-forward line, and I plan to use it on relatively small-to-medium streams and waters, mostly here in the Easter Sierra Nevadas where I live.  I’d prefer a floating line for my style of fishing.

Hi Joseph, I know there are those who will disagree with me on this one, but if you intend fishing *small*/*medium* streams with a floating line, then I would go for a double taper every time for the sake of superior presentation.  A weight forward line will give you an easier cast when you are looking for a bit extra distance, without too much emphasis on the presentation. FWIW thats what I think. — Bill

Response:

Joseph I posted a similar question a couple of months ago and was inundated with responses (I ended up getting a Cortland 444 which is an excellent line). Try going to www.dejanews.com and type in "floating lines" in the search box. You will be able to read the (considerable) replies I got. — Regards Peter (Please also reply by email, my server "loses" posts. Remove nospam to email) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m still using the first fly line I’ve ever gotten (received as a gift), which is a 3M DT-6-F.  Luckily, it happened to match the noodle-ey rod I learned on, and when I got good enough to move up a notch and buy a pretty good graphite rod (St. Croix), I just moved the whole setup to the new rod. But, I’m ready to try a new line.  I want to try a weight-forward line, and I plan to use it on relatively small-to-medium streams and waters, mostly here in the Easter Sierra Nevadas where I live.  I’d prefer a floating line for my style of fishing. But I’m overwhelmed with the choices!  I’ve read all the ads in my Orvis and LL Bean catalogs, as well as hit a couple of web pages, but I’m still at a loss.  What’s the real scoop?  Is a $40 line really that much better than a $12 one?  I honestly don’t know, since I’ve only ever used my 3M cheapie line. I’d love to hear some real-world experiences, so I can maybe whittle down the choices a bit, and choose the right line for me.  Can you folks help out a not-so-newbie-but-still-ignorant-about-fly-lines?  I’d really appreciate it.  Thanks in advance. Joe G. Tehachapi, CA

Response:

Joe- My preference would be a Lee Wulff triangle taper line. At short distances it casts like a double taper, it roll casts beautifully and, when you really need it, it will let you reach out as with a weight forward line. It ain’t cheap, but with care I have over ten years on my first one!In – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m still using the first fly line I’ve ever gotten (received as a gift), which is a 3M DT-6-F.  Luckily, it happened to match the noodle-ey rod I learned on, and when I got good enough to move up a notch and buy a pretty good graphite rod (St. Croix), I just moved the whole setup to the new rod. But, I’m ready to try a new line.  I want to try a weight-forward line, and I plan to use it on relatively small-to-medium streams and waters, mostly here in the Easter Sierra Nevadas where I live.  I’d prefer a floating line for my style of fishing. But I’m overwhelmed with the choices!  I’ve read all the ads in my Orvis and LL Bean catalogs, as well as hit a couple of web pages, but I’m still at a loss.  What’s the real scoop?  Is a $40 line really that much better than a $12 one?  I honestly don’t know, since I’ve only ever used my 3M cheapie line. I’d love to hear some real-world experiences, so I can maybe whittle down the choices a bit, and choose the right line for me.  Can you folks help out a not-so-newbie-but-still-ignorant-about-fly-lines?  I’d really appreciate it.  Thanks in advance. Joe G. Tehachapi, CA

Response:

I’m still using the first fly line I’ve ever gotten (received as a gift), which is a 3M DT-6-F.  Luckily, it happened to match the noodle-ey rod I learned on, and when I got good enough to move up a notch and buy a pretty good graphite rod (St. Croix), I just moved the whole setup to the new rod. But, I’m ready to try a new line.  I want to try a weight-forward line, and I plan to use it on relatively small-to-medium streams and waters, mostly here in the Easter Sierra Nevadas where I live.  I’d prefer a floating line for my style of fishing. But I’m overwhelmed with the choices!  I’ve read all the ads in my Orvis and LL Bean catalogs, as well as hit a couple of web pages, but I’m still at a loss.  What’s the real scoop?  Is a $40 line really that much better than a $12 one?  I honestly don’t know, since I’ve only ever used my 3M cheapie line. I’d love to hear some real-world experiences, so I can maybe whittle down the choices a bit, and choose the right line for me.  Can you folks help out a not-so-newbie-but-still-ignorant-about-fly-lines?  I’d really appreciate it.  Thanks in advance. Joe G. Tehachapi, CA

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m still using the first fly line I’ve ever gotten (received as a gift), which is a 3M DT-6-F.  Luckily, it happened to match the noodle-ey rod I learned on, and when I got good enough to move up a notch and buy a pretty good graphite rod (St. Croix), I just moved the whole setup to the new rod. But, I’m ready to try a new line.  I want to try a weight-forward line, and I plan to use it on relatively small-to-medium streams and waters, mostly here in the Easter Sierra Nevadas where I live.  I’d prefer a floating line for my style of fishing. But I’m overwhelmed with the choices!  I’ve read all the ads in my Orvis and LL Bean catalogs, as well as hit a couple of web pages, but I’m still at a loss.  What’s the real scoop?  Is a $40 line really that much better than a $12 one?  I honestly don’t know, since I’ve only ever used my 3M cheapie line. I’d love to hear some real-world experiences, so I can maybe whittle down the choices a bit, and choose the right line for me.  Can you folks help out a not-so-newbie-but-still-ignorant-about-fly-lines?  I’d really appreciate it.  Thanks in advance. Joe G. Tehachapi, CA

  Another reason to buy a DT:  Cut it in half, you’ve now got two lines and since you’re fishing small streams, you’re not going to be holding 45 feet of line in the air…

Response:

Question:

The title just about says it all.  I’m just starting out fly fishing for steelheads and am planning to haunt the NE Ohio/ NW PA lake Erie tribs in the near future.  Any information, stories, suggestions, or stern warnings would be appreciated. —                        http://members.tripod.com/~trunculo/index

Response:

Watch the weather…  I don’t know how far you will be driving, but you don’t want to have to go back home and get an ice pick.. Actually, this Winter has offered more open water than any in my memory.  PA stream conditions are posted intermittently at the NWPA Chapter of TU web site.  I do not have the url handy, but just put Northwest PA Chapter Trout Unlimited into any of the popular search engines and you will get there.

Response:

Thanks for the tips.  As luck would have it, I drove up there last week and found myself trying to calculate just how much split shot would be required to sink my egg pattern through several feet of slush to where the fishies are.  Oh well, Elk Creek is very pretty and I’ll be heading back up there. On the way home, I stopped by a local (Clear Fork Creek, by Mansfield, OH) trout stream and did pretty well on olive woolly buggers.  Life could be _much_ worse. : Watch the weather…  I don’t know how far you will be driving, but you don’t : want to have to go back home and get an ice pick.. : Actually, this Winter has offered more open water than any in my memory.  PA : stream conditions are posted intermittently at the NWPA Chapter of TU web site. :  I do not have the url handy, but just put Northwest PA Chapter Trout Unlimited : into any of the popular search engines and you will get there. —                        http://members.tripod.com/~trunculo/index

Response:

Sorry to post a double follow-up, but that url is http://www.tu.org/index.html    Thanks for the tip! : Watch the weather…  I don’t know how far you will be driving, but you don’t : want to have to go back home and get an ice pick.. : Actually, this Winter has offered more open water than any in my memory.  PA : stream conditions are posted intermittently at the NWPA Chapter of TU web site. :  I do not have the url handy, but just put Northwest PA Chapter Trout Unlimited : into any of the popular search engines and you will get there. —                        http://members.tripod.com/~trunculo/index

Response:

Question:

Hi.  I’m fairly new to southern Erie County, NY.  I’ve heard that there is nice salmon fishing in Eighteen Mile Creek in the fall, and I’d like to prepare.  Is anyone out here familiar with this water?  I am interested in when, where, and how (with what).  I am fairly familiar with it from Lake Erie to the big fork.  Would really appreciate any advice or even a partner.  (have chests wades and a small 4wd)  Could do either fly/spin/livebait).  Thanks again for any help.                                         Michael Kankiewicz                                         Business / Government Documents                                         Lockwood Memorial Library                                         University at Buffalo

Response:

Hi Mike, I take it you attend U.B since your sending this from the grad library . 18 mile is nit really a good chinook salmon tributary. actually the chinook salmon  population is fairly limited in all of lake erie. You will some coho salmon in 18 and other lake erie tributaries but most of all you will find steelhead. The primary tackle on 18 is egg sacks for steelhead,power bait. I float fish for steelhead with a 13 ft rod and a centerpin float reel as they do in canada. i also fly fish . if you fly fish on 18 i suggest small flies size 8 thru 10 egg sucking leaches,  size 8 glow bugs. at time the current can be slow esp in winter and water gin clear you may want to use a small float for strike indicator.Since your new to the area i suggest you go to the book store to pick up the sanders guide -which will give you all the spots in the area. If your still interest in chinook try oak orachard creek in orleans county,18 mile creek in niagara county or the lower niagara itself–lake ontario has larger population of chinooks-which proably will show up by end of september.If you dont mind taking a long ride say for a weekend there is the salmon river north of syracuse–you proably already know about that RIVERS REPUTATION AS WORLD CLASS. I hope this helps e mail if you have more questions.

Response:

Question:

I am planning to be in the 1,000 islands area for the weekend of 9/28. What’s the flyfishing like there?  Where are the ‘good’ spots, and what flies are being used.  Also, I am not even sure what fish are available. Please help! Mac

Response:

I am planning to be in the 1,000 islands area for the weekend of 9/28. What’s the flyfishing like there?  Where are the ‘good’ spots, and what flies are being used.  Also, I am not even sure what fish are available.

1.  Fly fishing for bass usually ends rather suddenly in mid-September: but everything is late this year…. 2.  Muskellunge is the prized local species for fall fishing, and might be taken on fly, but no one tries.  (Everyone trolls.) 3.  Lake Ontario tributaries in NY state (south to Oswego) should then be full of chinook and coho salmon and some accompanying trout species too, which can mostly be caught on fly. You need good local information, however, for all these species.  You’d have the most fly fishing fun with #3, perhaps employing a guide. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

Response:

Question:

[Item 1] Then there are those who drive bigger boats that think because their boat is bigger, they have the right to direct your boat.

[Item 2] Then there are those with smaller boats (canoes in my case) that are too afraid that you’ll swamp them or get angry that the wake you leave will ruin their weekend.

[Item 3] And those boats smaller than I:  Unless there is a no wake zone – you take your chances.

I think I must be a little confused by what you’ve written — do you see no contradiction between your complaint in item 1 and your attitude in item 3, which essentially dictates what boats smaller than yours are allowed to do? And, are you really saying in items 2 & 3 that you have no compunctions about swamping canoes simply because they are smaller than your boat?  And your justification is that you feel great hardship is imposed upon you by the cost of maintaining your larger boat?  (Sorry, I inadvertantly deleted that part of your post.) Do you see no contradiction here?

Response:

I don’t know or care what your problem is but you just made it on my kill list. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Re: Is boating worth it? AT&T Newsgroups: rec.boats References: snip I used to live on a little pond where a guy put a big boat with the name Suck My Wake painted in huge letters on the side. You’d like him,                                           jc Funny, I named my sailboat "Blow Me". Garry Heon First Stepp My Opinions….Lucent’s Network. Garry,  I appreciate your above response.  It appears that a number of smart-ass lawyers replied  to my supposed lack of concern regarding my wake. Admiralty Lawyer  W.Smith referred to me as an ‘ASSHOLE’ in his email msg.  Just remember:  LAWYER + BOAT = FLOATING SHIT  Regards.  D.G.

D. George Jensen San Diego, CA, USA

Response:

asshole I’d kick your fucking ass and piss on your face Cause its really obvious that’s the only type of communication you understand !!! your a dam dickwad mother fucker .. See asshole I don’t need no fucking attorney to take care of your sorry peace of shit Not only do I own a 42 foot Ketch that I built in my own back yard "10 years in the making". But  I also own a 12 foot aluminum Fishing boat . I happen to like catfish !!! Last year I was swamped by a 32 foot power boat in a 300 foot wide channel The mother fucker had the odasidy to fly the third digit as he passed me in the channel . well that’s the last time that asshole flew that finger!!!!! I BROKE IT Yea see there is only two ways you can go on a river he might have got away with it if we where on the big bad ocean but we weren’t ,, I caught up with the asshole at restaurant/bar a few miles up stream Needless to say I spent 30 days in county for fucking this asshole up but it was worth it… I dint like watching my tackle box float down stream … I’ve been a framer half my fucking life I know how to swing a hammer might knock some fucking courtesy into it   I walk the walk,  I talk the talk . and  Ill kick your fucking ass if I ever see  you ASSHOLE  if ya wana meet dickwad  "ANYWARE ANY TIME ASSHOLE"   Email me – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The first thing you learn when boating is that others like to tell you how to drive it. If you have female passengers, they will complain that you are not driving in a manner considerate to their physical attributes. Then there are those who drive bigger boats that think because their boat is bigger, they have the right to direct your boat. Then there are those with smaller boats (canoes in my case) that are too afraid that you’ll swamp them or get angry that the wake you leave will ruin their weekend. My reply to complaining females is that they should strap their parts down before getting on board.  To those who like to give orders from other boats or shore: EAT MY WAKE. And those boats smaller than I:  Unless there is a no wake zone – you take your chances. It’s bad enough fixing the boat to keep it running.  But this extra crap: tell it to someone who cares.

Response:

  It appears that a number of smart-ass lawyers replied   to my supposed lack of concern regarding my wake. Admiralty Lawyer   W.Smith referred to me as an ‘ASSHOLE’ in his email msg.

Oh Gee, Dave, I’m sorry.  I thought ASSHOLE was the name of your boat.   Hey Dave, the sooner you end up in federal prison, the better off the boating world will be. —         Wm. G. Smith         Admiralty Lawyer         P.O. Box 3017         Framingham, Mass. 01705         (508)877-3119 Practicing in Admiralty, Environmental and Coastal Land Use Planning Visit my web page at http://www.netcom.com/~w.smith/admiralty.html

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Re: Is boating worth it? AT&T Newsgroups: rec.boats References: snip I used to live on a little pond where a guy put a big boat with the name Suck My Wake painted in huge letters on the side. You’d like him,                                               jc Funny, I named my sailboat "Blow Me". Garry Heon First Stepp My Opinions….Lucent’s Network.

Garry,   I appreciate your above response.   It appears that a number of smart-ass lawyers replied   to my supposed lack of concern regarding my wake. Admiralty Lawyer   W.Smith referred to me as an ‘ASSHOLE’ in his email msg.   Just remember:  LAWYER + BOAT = FLOATING SHIT   Regards.   D.G.

Response:

I’m just very glad I don’t boat WITH you or NEAR you.

Response:

snip I used to live on a little pond where a guy put a big boat with the name Suck My Wake painted in huge letters on the side. You’d like him,                                            jc

Funny, I named my sailboat "Blow Me". Garry Heon First Stepp My Opinions….Lucent’s Network.

Response:

And those boats smaller than I:  Unless there is a no wake zone – you take your chances.

 Regardless of a no wake zone or not, I would hope you that if you’re close enough to swamp a smaller craft with your wake that you would slow down. If not then you take your own chances, because if there are witnesses you could face criminal or civil prosecution. The usual disclaimers apply.

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The first thing you learn when boating is that others like to tell you how to drive it. If you have female passengers, they will complain that you are not driving in a manner considerate to their physical attributes. Then there are those who drive bigger boats that think because their boat is bigger, they have the right to direct your boat. Then there are those with smaller boats (canoes in my case) that are too afraid that you’ll swamp them or get angry that the wake you leave will ruin their weekend. My reply to complaining females is that they should strap their parts down before getting on board.  To those who like to give orders from other boats or shore: EAT MY WAKE. And those boats smaller than I:  Unless there is a no wake zone – you take your chances. It’s bad enough fixing the boat to keep it running.  But this extra crap: tell it to someone who cares.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The first thing you learn when boating is that others like to tell you how to drive it. If you have female passengers, they will complain that you are not driving in a manner considerate to their physical attributes. Then there are those who drive bigger boats that think because their boat is bigger, they have the right to direct your boat. Then there are those with smaller boats (canoes in my case) that are too afraid that you’ll swamp them or get angry that the wake you leave will ruin their weekend. My reply to complaining females is that they should strap their parts down before getting on board.  To those who like to give orders from other boats or shore: EAT MY WAKE. And those boats smaller than I:  Unless there is a no wake zone – you take your chances. It’s bad enough fixing the boat to keep it running.  But this extra crap: tell it to someone who cares.

Please go to school. Boating is great fun but you must obey the rules. As far as your wake goes, you are legally and financially responsible for any damages caused by your wake, anywhere, anytime. —            /       Michael W. Madden          / |      215 898-0939        _/  |        /   |      I’d rather be sailing!

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -The first thing you learn when boating is that others like to tell you how to drive it. If you have female passengers, they will complain that you are not driving in a manner considerate to their physical attributes. Then there are those who drive bigger boats that think because their boat is bigger, they have the right to direct your boat. Then there are those with smaller boats (canoes in my case) that are too afraid that you’ll swamp them or get angry that the wake you leave will ruin their weekend. My reply to complaining females is that they should strap their parts down before getting on board.  To those who like to give orders from other boats or shore: EAT MY WAKE. And those boats smaller than I:  Unless there is a no wake zone – you take your chances. It’s bad enough fixing the boat to keep it running.  But this extra crap: tell it to someone who cares.

I used to live on a little pond where a guy put a big boat with the name Suck My Wake painted in huge letters on the side. You’d like him, he’d pretty much swamp anyone who messed with him on this 1 X .5 mile stretch of water. He’s up in N.Berwick Maine if you feel like tracking him down and starting a club or something….                                                 jc

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The first thing you learn when boating is that others like to tell you how to drive it.

Yeah, who needs to hear all that crap about how you should operate your boat from the International Maritime Organization, the Coast Guard or the State Boating Law Administrator!  Screw ‘em. Then there are those who drive bigger boats that think because their boat is bigger, they have the right to direct your boat.

They may or may not, depending on the circumstances prevailing at the time, have a right to expect you’ll get out of their way.  Under other circumstances, you have a right to expect that they will get out of your way.  If they don’t, you have a positive duty under the law to take prompt, efficient actions to avoid a collision. Then there are those with smaller boats (canoes in my case) that are too afraid that you’ll swamp them or get angry that the wake you leave will ruin their weekend.

It may do worse than that; it may injure or kill them. To those who like to give orders from other boats or shore: EAT MY WAKE.

Another writer has already said this, but it bears repeating: You are personally liable for all damage done by your wake at all times.  Rule 6 of both the Inland and International Rules of the Road absolutely require all mariners to operate at a safe speed at all times.  Whether or not your speed was safe will be determined by whether or not your wake does any damage or by whether you could have avoided doing any kind of damage by proceeding at a slower speed. And those boats smaller than I:  Unless there is a no wake zone – you take your chances.

If you really do operate in this manner, it constitutes "Grossly Negligent Operation" and is a Federal CRIME, punishable by a fine of up to $5,000 and up to a year in prison or both.  Personally, I wish the Coast Guard would forget about drugs for a while and more vigorously enforce and prosecute under this statute.  People like you belong in jail. It’s bad enough fixing the boat to keep it running.  But this extra crap: tell it to someone who cares.

There is a legal term to describe someone like you:  ASSHOLE. —         Wm. G. Smith         Admiralty Lawyer         P.O. Box 3017         Framingham, Mass. 01705         (508)877-3119 Practicing in Admiralty, Environmental and Coastal Land Use Planning Visit my web page at http://www.netcom.com/~w.smith/admiralty.html

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Question:

    I’ll be flying through Bozeman or Helena in mid-june and was looking to spend a day or two fly fishing in the area. Does anyone know about getting around in these areas. Are there rivers accessible by public transport or other means? Are there guides in the area who ferry? Also, I was wondering about river conditions there at that time.      thanks in advance, John koon  

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Guides can ferry..but public transportation probably won’t get you to many streams…however, here in Missoula you can have great fishing right downtown…alas, our rivers are very high and will probably be that way for sometime to come..

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   I’ll be flying through Bozeman or Helena in mid-june and was looking to spend a day or two fly fishing in the area. Does anyone know about getting around in these areas. Are there rivers accessible by public transport or other means? Are there guides in the area who ferry? Also, I was wondering about river conditions there at that time.     thanks in advance, John koon  

Hi John I live in Bozeman and public transportation is little and far between. I also guide and often pick my clients up at their motel. I suggest you contact Dave Corcoran at the River’s Edge (or one of his people) 406-586-5373. They can book you with a guide as well as arrange a room accross the street from the store. You would be next door to a couple of restaurants as well. Just walk accross the street, meet your guide, get any supplies you need, ride with the guide to and from the river and at day’s end you can be returned to the store or your motel. When flying into Bozeman it’s about an 8 mile trip from the airport to the motel.   You can call a taxi or have the River’s Edge schedule one to be waiting for you. If you want to fish by your self, there is basically no way without a car. Regarding the rivers:  We are experiencing a very wet, cold spring. Many of our waters will be high and muddy but a guide should be able to get you to fairly good water.  However a bad storm can really mess up the water conditions for a day or so. If you don’t mind the rod fee, you might see if they can get you on one of the spring creeks.  They are not affected as much by rain as the rivers. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

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Question:

 What if you have a jig of some sort on your line with a slip bobber rig….. Do you think it will

work? Has anyone…..tried it? Down here in TExas what you are describing is called a "Mansfield Mauler": Foam float with about a ten-inch stiff steel wire thru a slip-hole down the bobber. Wire held from leaving the hole by sliding plastic beads top and bottom (belayed by crimped ferrules) that "click" when the mauler is twitched. Bottom end has a few feet of leader and a snap:the  jig (or a treble hook with live bait like a shrimp) goes there… You "pop" the rod and as you do the wire comes up thru the float, thereby tilting the float to its side. THe sudden tilt causes the bait to be jerked up and a bit laterally towards the fisherman. THe wire also propels the beads against the bobber causing a nice loud click. As you relax the line the wire descend again thru the hole partway, allowing the bait to settle. Another click occurs when the top bead hits the top of the bobber. They are painted an iridescent red/dayglow orange color. Very effective over eelgrass down here for redfish and specks… Don’t know if they are avail from catalogs but I bet they are. email me for address of supplier here if you cant find em thru bass pro shops or equiv. places… good luck. bill II*

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 What if you have a jig of some sort on your line with a slip bobber rig….. Do you think it will work? Has anyone…..tried it?

In Iowa, during crappie spawning season, we used jigs with marabou feather tails under bobbers to catch them.  Set the jig 18-24 inches below the bobber, depending on the depth of the bottom.  Cast, slowly retrieve.  Set the hook at the slightest strange action by the bobber. Once, I was wading and casting this set-up.  I got careless, and let the jig hit the water behind me.  I threw a crappie 30 feet forward, after it grabbed that jig!  This should work almost anywhere if the water is clear enough to see 3-5 feet, during the spring spawn. Larry L. Neely

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I haven’t tried it yet, but I had a thought. What if you have a jig of some sort on your line with a slip bobber rig. Suppose the bobber has a long stem or tube (or whatever you call that piece the line passes through). Cast it out, and the jig sinks to the set depth and the weight of the jig keeps the slip bobber upright. Now, since the line passes all the way through the bobber from bottom to top, if you twitch or jerk your line in small increments will the slip bobber act as a fulcrum and cause enough up and down and sideways action on the jig to attract a strike? Eventually, you would twitch the lure back to you and have to cast again. But in clear water where fish spook at the sight of a boat, this might be a useful technique if you could find a school holding at a certain depth. Do you think it will work? Has anyone tried it?

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: I haven’t tried it yet, but I had a thought. What if you have a jig of : some sort on your line with a slip bobber rig. Suppose the bobber has a : long stem or tube (or whatever you call that piece the line passes : through). Cast it out, and the jig sinks to the set depth and the weight : of the jig keeps the slip bobber upright. : Now, since the line passes all the way through the bobber from bottom to : top, if you twitch or jerk your line in small increments will the slip : bobber act as a fulcrum and cause enough up and down and sideways action : on the jig to attract a strike? Eventually, you would twitch the lure back : to you and have to cast again. But in clear water where fish spook at the : sight of a boat, this might be a useful technique if you could find a : school holding at a certain depth. Do you think it will work? Has anyone : tried it? You have just described one of the most effective ways of fishing for crappie.  This technique is also good for trout and bluegill.  You can attach a sinking fly instead of a jig, twitch it now and then, you can catch bluegill, crappie or trout.  Sometimes a curious bass will bite but not too often.  Place a shiner and you will get big bass.  Of course, depends where you fish, depth setting, time of the year, species found in the lake, etc…

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I believe In-Fisherman or Bassmaster magazine had an article on just this type of fishing. I’am not sure which month it was in, but i’am pretty sure it was in last years run.

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: You have just described one of the most effective ways of fishing for : crappie.  This technique is also good for trout and bluegill.  You can : attach a sinking fly instead of a jig, twitch it now and then, you can catch : bluegill, crappie or trout.  Sometimes a curious bass will bite but not : too often.  Place a shiner and you will get big bass.  Of course, depends : where you fish, depth setting, time of the year, species found in the lake, : etc… You may also try using cast-a-bubble, or very tiny Thill floats if the fish are very spooky, instead of the ordinary bobbers.

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I haven’t tried it yet, but I had a thought. What if you have a jig of some sort on your line with a slip bobber rig. Suppose the bobber has a long stem or tube (or whatever you call that piece the line passes through). Cast it out, and the jig sinks to the set depth and the weight of the jig keeps the slip bobber upright.

I used to do a lot of heavy spinning from rocky coastlines when I lived in Samoa, fishing for bluefin trevelly and ulua. The surface poppers are fun, but no good when the fish were down. However, casting a diving lure was hopeless,… always snagging on the coral and losing precious lures. I thought about it a while, and came up with the same idea you hit on, only adapted to bigger fish. I was using 25 lb on a Penn 850, passing the line through a 2" bubble (the kind you partially fill with water for weight). On the terminal end, a barrel swivel was joined to a 4′ leader and large diving lure. Big Rapalas or salmon plugs were good. I would then cast out and let the lure sink down while counting off the seconds. If it hit bottom, a quick retrieve kept it off, then I would always start the retrieve a few seconds sooner on later casts (Rapala Countdown method). This would give a long, slanting retrieve to the surface, then a free fall to the bottom, another slanting retrieve, etc. till the lure was in. My best catch was a 38 lb white ulua on a 8" Rapala Sliver. However, I still lost plent of lures, but it was another option. — David G. Itano

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I haven’t tried it yet, but I had a thought. What if you have a jig of some sort on your line with a slip bobber rig. Suppose the bobber has a long stem or tube (or whatever you call that piece the line passes through). Cast it out, and the jig sinks to the set depth and the weight of the jig keeps the slip bobber upright. Now, since the line passes all the way through the bobber from bottom to top, if you twitch or jerk your line in small increments will the slip bobber act as a fulcrum and cause enough up and down and sideways action on the jig to attract a strike? Eventually, you would twitch the lure back to you and have to cast again. But in clear water where fish spook at the sight of a boat, this might be a useful technique if you could find a school holding at a certain depth. Do you think it will work? Has anyone tried it?

Great technique for Walleyes.   Knocks ‘em dead. Burt Benson, New York Mills, MN

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