Question:

Steve, I have a set of Hodgman neoprene waders and wading boots and they work fine for me.  The only problem I have with them is that I sweat like a pig in them.  I cannot wear any clothes under them that I plan on wearing later as they get soaked.  I just returned from the Pit, McCloud and Burney creek and did not feel cold in the waders at all. Just my $.02, Dustin – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Greetings from Northern California.  In shopping for my first pair of waders (I’m new to fly fishing) I came across the Hodgman closeout site.  The have Wadelite non-breathable waders, suspenders, and Caster Boots for the low price of $49.99.  Is this a deal or am I just pissing away Fifty Bucks?

Response:

Personally, I doubt if I could get more than 3 seasons out of a pair of waders no mater who made them. Having used all varieties, I am sold on breathables for all weather conditions until it is warm enough to wade wet. In winter (you know, snow and ice) I stay warmer in breathables…. Does anyone get more than 3 seasons?….. john

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Greetings from Northern California.  In shopping for my first pair of waders (I’m new to fly fishing) I came across the Hodgman closeout site.  The have Wadelite non-breathable waders, suspenders, and Caster Boots for the low price of $49.99.  Is this a deal or am I just pissing away Fifty Bucks?

Response:

"asadi" < Personally, I doubt if I could get more than 3 seasons out of a pair of waders no mater who made them. Having used all varieties, I am sold on breathables for all weather conditions until it is warm enough to wade wet. In winter (you know, snow and ice) I stay warmer in breathables…. Does anyone get more than 3 seasons?….. john

I got a whole season out of a pair of breathables last year and they have three holes patched. They may get me through this coming one as well. I would presume I do a lot more hours on the water than most, wouldn’t know how to work out what that equates too, but it would be at least three seasons I’m guessing. Clark

Response:

I’m 2/3 thru year 4 on my Simms Guide boots and waders. Never applied a patch to the waders and the boots look pretty spiffy considering. My trick is that I hose down my gear every time I fish and then hang it up to dry. This may sound a little obsessive, but I do the same with my fly lines and rods/reels and they’re as nice as the day I bot them. Also, it pays to be careful when putting on your waders and boots not to track sand and gravel on your feet. These are hell on wader feet. IMHO. -bh Boulder, CO

Response:

Greetings from Northern California.  In shopping for my first pair of waders (I’m new to fly fishing) I came across the Hodgman closeout site.  The have Wadelite non-breathable waders, suspenders, and Caster Boots for the low price of $49.99.  Is this a deal or am I just pissing away Fifty Bucks?

I am hardly new to flyfishing but use similiar waders myself. Also have cheaper model Hodgman boots. After using rubber/canvas and then neoprene waders this style seemed quite nice and light. I think its a good deal. Breathable waders are probably more comfortable but from all the complaints I’ve seen here concerning the cheaper ones it seems that you are looking at at least 200 bucks to get a good pair. A little steep for my taste, but of course I AM cheap (admitting you have a problem etc. etc. etc.). Geo.C.

Response:

I have a pair of hodgeman breathables, I can’t recall what model off the top of my head but I paid about 150 for them three years ago. I do allot of walking through brush to get to water and keep them in my car trunk all summer long on 90+ degree days witch can’t really be good for them, but they have yet to spring a leak and are very comfortable. I also bought there cheaper canvas felt sole wading boots. It ran me 200 total but for the abuse I put them through I think it was a good investment. I had some cheap rubber waders that were beyond uncomfortable and sprung a leak after a few trips crawling through the bushes on the edge of a stream(gota be stealthy some times, people give me silly looks when they see me crawling around in waders with a fly rod). So in the long run I think it’s worth spending on one good set then buying 4 or 5 bad ones through the years. Well that’s my 2 cents, well more like 5 Tim Apple

Response:

Greetings from Northern California.  In shopping for my first pair of waders (I’m new to fly fishing) I came across the Hodgman closeout site.  The have Wadelite non-breathable waders, suspenders, and Caster Boots for the low price of $49.99.  Is this a deal or am I just pissing away Fifty Bucks?

I found the nylon non-breathable Wadelites. Personally, I think these would be rather warm and uncomfortable. But then I’m "big-boned" <g and perspire a lot anyway. — TL, Tim

Response:

I purchased a pair of the bantam weight hippers and a pair of the bantam weight chest waders from their outlet store and used the hip waders this summer.     I now know why breatheables are so popular but other than perspiring quite a bit, the waders worked great.   held up pretty good during a week-long trip, no leaks, etc.    I don’t know about the boots, had a pair of 11 yo hodgman boots that worked ok. so, I thought for $50, i got a pretty good deal on the waders, i don’t get to fish much, but now have all waters covered… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Greetings from Northern California.  In shopping for my first pair of waders (I’m new to fly fishing) I came across the Hodgman closeout site.  The have Wadelite non-breathable waders, suspenders, and Caster Boots for the low price of $49.99.  Is this a deal or am I just pissing away Fifty Bucks?

Response:

Greetings from Northern California.  In shopping for my first pair of waders (I’m new to fly fishing) I came across the Hodgman closeout site.  The have Wadelite non-breathable waders, suspenders, and Caster Boots for the low price of $49.99.  Is this a deal or am I just pissing away Fifty Bucks?

It depends on how much you fish, and what type of fishing you do. If you’re going to be doing some small mountain creeks or upper lakes, then these are probably NG. I have a pair of Cabelas non-breathable cheap waders which are fine (with or without underlying insulation…depending on season) for late fall/winter/early spring (late spring for the ocean) fishing around here.  Once the weather warms up, I don’t use full waders, I either use hip boots, or wet-wade, with a couple of exceptions. When I’ve gone up to some of the bigger water (Ausable, West Branch of the Delaware) I could really have used the breathables. So, the answer is "it depends". — Rob

Response:

Greetings from Northern California.  In shopping for my first pair of waders (I’m new to fly fishing) I came across the Hodgman closeout site.  The have Wadelite non-breathable waders, suspenders, and Caster Boots for the low price of $49.99.  Is this a deal or am I just pissing away Fifty Bucks?

Response:

Greetings from Northern California.  In shopping for my first pair of waders (I’m new to fly fishing) I came across the Hodgman closeout site.  The have Wadelite non-breathable waders, suspenders, and Caster Boots for the low price of $49.99.  Is this a deal or am I just pissing away Fifty Bucks?

The Wadelite models are all breathable, according to their website. I’ve got a pair of the felt-sole Caster boots, and they’re decent for a starter set, although the felt is two-piece with the shank uncovered. This can sometimes cause stumbling problems if you’re not careful because the heel catches on rocks. — TL, Tim

Response:

Greetings from Northern California.  In shopping for my first pair of waders (I’m new to fly fishing) I came across the Hodgman closeout site.  The have Wadelite non-breathable waders, suspenders, and Caster Boots for the low price of $49.99.  Is this a deal or am I just pissing away Fifty Bucks?

Don’t know anything about the boots, but I bought the same waders for a quite a bit more money four years ago and they haven’t let me down yet. Sounds like a good deal to me. Wolfgang

Response:

Question:

Now imagine that trip with some *real* streamers in your arsenal.  <g (we may have the beginnings of a convert) Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

I fish streamers often.  I had small Mickey Finns and white/peacock Deceivers with me.  But, knowing there were very large fish in the pool, and never having taken one there, I tried the largest fly I had.  And it took the largest trout I’ve ever caught. Glenn GKT

Response:

. 15" and 18" browns.  Not something to write in a diary, but it worked. Any trout of that size I take on a fly rod will get written in a diary. Pete Collin

Well, me too; I was way too casual in that description.  Probably in comparison to the 11 trout someone else caught the day before.   For the record, the previous largest trout of my life was a 21" brown on a #16 Goddard Caddis from a pool on this creek.  But there are a fair number of long-term holdover trout in the 15" plus range there.   Glenn   GKT

Response:

Not something to write in a diary, but it worked. Fairly sure I would write that in my diary! TL MC

Well, I did.  I apologize for being way too casual.  I belittled it in comparison to the 11 fish someone else caught the day before. Glenn GKT

Response:

If I saw a trout big enough to eat a 4" clouser I would write about it.    hell, i would leap from the water, terrified. your friend in the old north state wayno where a 4 inch clouser would be damn close to a record.

I did warm my waders when I saw the fish. GKT

Response:

. 15" and 18" browns.  Not something to write in a diary, but it worked. Any trout of that size I take on a fly rod will get written in a diary. Pete Collin

Could you improve that remark by just saying "Any?" GG

Response:

After an hour or so of good intentions, I switched to the inevitable Wooly Bugger.  Black marabou, peacock herl and silver wire body, black saddle hackle palmer, silver barbell eyes.  With the cover of rain, I got next to the dark green channels and high sticked the Bugger through the runs. 15" and 18" browns.  Not something to write in a diary, but it worked.

Fairly sure I would write that in my diary! TL MC

Response:

Fairly sure I would write that in my diary! TL MC

If I saw a trout big enough to eat a 4" clouser I would write about it. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply.

Response:

Fairly sure I would write that in my diary! TL MC If I saw a trout big enough to eat a 4" clouser I would write about it.

    hell, i would leap from the water, terrified. your friend in the old north state wayno where a 4 inch clouser would be damn close to a record.

Response:

Thursday 4/25 Paradise Creek off the Brodhead 9:30 to 2:30.  Light to moderate rain with an air temperature of 43 to 46 degrees. The day before, someone had taken 11 browns up to 18" on Hendrickson spinners. To quote Dizzy Dean, it ain’t bragging if you can do it. Thursday the creek was up but fairly clear.  Rings on every pool but they were made by drips from the hemlocks and sycamores.  An occasional microcaddis in the air, but no concentration of bugs in the trees.  I checked the streamside and bridge spiderwebs for evidence of hatches but they were generally empty. No shucks on the rocks, though the rising creek might have covered earlier stonefly activity. My fishing partner stuck with a Prince nymph most of the day.  It had worked the previous week, so he went over a lot of water giving it another chance. Moderately stubborn type. I changed flys with that fine desperation and lack of intuition which characterizes my approach to tough conditions.  If I had thought to bring midge pupa imitations with me they might have been a better bet.  I was also trying to avoid retreating to Wooly Buggers. After an hour or so of good intentions, I switched to the inevitable Wooly Bugger.  Black marabou, peacock herl and silver wire body, black saddle hackle palmer, silver barbell eyes.  With the cover of rain, I got next to the dark green channels and high sticked the Bugger through the runs. 15" and 18" browns.  Not something to write in a diary, but it worked. To close out the day, we went to the toughest stretch, Harold’s Pool.  My friend went up through all the riffles with the Prince.  I drew a very large flash to the Wooly Bugger, but the big fish in that pool see a lot of Wooly Buggers from desperate anglers.  I put on a 4" 1/0 chartreuse and white Clouser (barbless) and flogged the depths of the pool.  No fun casting with a 3 wt. But the second cast, letting the Clouser swing below me, a trout nailed the fly (ok, it might as well be a jig).  And it made the day light up.  I horsed it as best I could with the 3 wt. and a 2X flourocarbon leader.  And it fought upstream, probably surprised as hell that it couldn’t snap the leader instantly.  So in a few minutes I brought a brilliantly colored brown to my feet, popped the Clouser out of the corner of its mouth, and set it free. We took our shivering old bodies to the car, put away our rods, signed out, and headed home with the heater cranked to max.  No bugs but not a bad day. GKT

Response:

[snip] We took our shivering old bodies to the car, put away our rods, signed out, and headed home with the heater cranked to max.  No bugs but not a bad day. GKT

Now imagine that trip with some *real* streamers in your arsenal.  <g (we may have the beginnings of a convert) Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

. 15" and 18" browns.  Not something to write in a diary, but it worked.

Any trout of that size I take on a fly rod will get written in a diary. Pete Collin

Response:

Nice story Arn.  It’s hard to maintain the discipline between being a fly fisherman and lures.  It’s like walking the fine line between genius and insanity. Fly fishing has driven many advocates mad. Yes, its a mad, mad, mad world! George Gehrke "Mr. Cool"

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thursday 4/25 Paradise Creek off the Brodhead 9:30 to 2:30.  Light to moderate rain with an air temperature of 43 to 46 degrees. The day before, someone had taken 11 browns up to 18" on Hendrickson spinners. To quote Dizzy Dean, it ain’t bragging if you can do it. Thursday the creek was up but fairly clear.  Rings on every pool but they were made by drips from the hemlocks and sycamores.  An occasional microcaddis in the air, but no concentration of bugs in the trees.  I checked the streamside and bridge spiderwebs for evidence of hatches but they were generally empty. No shucks on the rocks, though the rising creek might have covered earlier stonefly activity. My fishing partner stuck with a Prince nymph most of the day.  It had worked the previous week, so he went over a lot of water giving it another chance. Moderately stubborn type. I changed flys with that fine desperation and lack of intuition which characterizes my approach to tough conditions.  If I had thought to bring midge pupa imitations with me they might have been a better bet.  I was also trying to avoid retreating to Wooly Buggers. After an hour or so of good intentions, I switched to the inevitable Wooly Bugger.  Black marabou, peacock herl and silver wire body, black saddle hackle palmer, silver barbell eyes.  With the cover of rain, I got next to the dark green channels and high sticked the Bugger through the runs. 15" and 18" browns.  Not something to write in a diary, but it worked. To close out the day, we went to the toughest stretch, Harold’s Pool.  My friend went up through all the riffles with the Prince.  I drew a very large flash to the Wooly Bugger, but the big fish in that pool see a lot of Wooly Buggers from desperate anglers.  I put on a 4" 1/0 chartreuse and white Clouser (barbless) and flogged the depths of the pool.  No fun casting with a 3 wt. But the second cast, letting the Clouser swing below me, a trout nailed the fly (ok, it might as well be a jig).  And it made the day light up.  I horsed it as best I could with the 3 wt. and a 2X flourocarbon leader.  And it fought upstream, probably surprised as hell that it couldn’t snap the leader instantly.  So in a few minutes I brought a brilliantly colored brown to my feet, popped the Clouser out of the corner of its mouth, and set it free. We took our shivering old bodies to the car, put away our rods, signed out, and headed home with the heater cranked to max.  No bugs but not a bad day. GKT

Response:

STREAMERS is a very good idea.  I would have fished a muddler minnow darting along the bottom with a sink tip. George Gehrke "guessing is better than doing nothing" Now imagine that trip with some *real* streamers in your arsenal.  <g (we may have the beginnings of a convert) Peter Visit The Streamer Page at

http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Question:

Thanks for the info!  Actually, I’ve been able to find a 2001 model, for about $500 less w/ warranty.  It’s hard to judge on the upgrades, since they do vary from boat to boat.  The boat I’m looking at indicates it has all the goodies… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There’s a 2000 ClackaCraft w/ all the goodies for sale parked (this weekend) by the Agate Pass bridge off Bainbridge… asking $5100, says it was $6700 new. Looks like I’m going to get a used drift boat this spring!  The fishing gods apparently have taken kindly to me for one reason or another.  I have accumulated a ton of information on a number of different boats and have talked to a number of people first hand on which boat is the best. Just like a fly rod, each person has their own opinion.  I have all but decided upon a glass boat and have pretty much decided upon either a Hyde, ClackaCraft, Ro, or perhaps a Nord West boat. Anyone care to share any other comments?  I wonder if the new boat would work on the Henry’s Fork?  Hmmmm….

– remove all x’s for reply email. To worry is folly so let us be jolly.

Response:

There’s a 2000 ClackaCraft w/ all the goodies for sale parked (this weekend) by the Agate Pass bridge off Bainbridge… asking $5100, says it was $6700 new. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Looks like I’m going to get a used drift boat this spring!  The fishing gods apparently have taken kindly to me for one reason or another.  I have accumulated a ton of information on a number of different boats and have talked to a number of people first hand on which boat is the best. Just like a fly rod, each person has their own opinion.  I have all but decided upon a glass boat and have pretty much decided upon either a Hyde, ClackaCraft, Ro, or perhaps a Nord West boat. Anyone care to share any other comments?  I wonder if the new boat would work on the Henry’s Fork?  Hmmmm….

Response:

Looks like I’m going to get a used drift boat this spring!  The fishing gods apparently have taken kindly to me for one reason or another.  I have accumulated a ton of information on a number of different boats and have talked to a number of people first hand on which boat is the best.   Just like a fly rod, each person has their own opinion.  I have all but decided upon a glass boat and have pretty much decided upon either a Hyde, ClackaCraft, Ro, or perhaps a Nord West boat.   Anyone care to share any other comments?  I wonder if the new boat would work on the Henry’s Fork?  Hmmmm…. — remove all x’s for reply email. To worry is folly so let us be jolly.

Response:

Question:

Hello: Thought I might try some  [Whitlock] Red Fox Squirrel-Hair Nymphs,  which was suggested. Can’t seem to find any listed among my 2000 cat. collection. Anybody know of any mail order cat’s that offer them? Thanks, Bob

Response:

Cabela’s Joel Axelrad

Response:

Hello: Thought I might try some  [Whitlock] Red Fox Squirrel-Hair Nymphs,  which was suggested. Can’t seem to find any listed among my 2000 cat. collection. Anybody know of any mail order cat’s that offer them? Thanks, Bob

Also try: KBE FLYFISHING COMPANY www.flyfishingflies.com Joel Axelrad

Response:

Question:

   In the first place Mike didn’t do anything any decent person would have done. I sent an E-mail to Dianna telling her my opinion of the article and received a reply which was negative and did not sound like her.  I did not know about the injury to her husband and the pressure she was under at the time.  As the Editor she did have a responsibility to place a disclaimer to state FAOL’s position on Old Ruff’s article, which she did not do.  This made it appear that they condoned this inflammatory article.  Then she removed the negative comments about it from FAOL which further indicated FAOL’s position was to agree with the article.  Deanna made some serious errors and her actions led to the current situation.    Mike’s reputation is even better with me because he has the courage of his convictions.  If I had to chose between Mike and FAOL, Mike would win every time. Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a certain reputation to uphold here, and elsewhere.< Not any more. Oh, I think Mike still enjoys a pretty good reputation on ROFF.  Of course, my supposition hinges on the assumption that you don’t speak for all of us…….I could be wrong.

Response:

ROFF is the one place, FAOL cannot censor opposing points of view. < And one YOU cannot censor.

And what have I censored? bc.

Response:

HRBlain writes: I could be wrong.< You often are.

Careful, HR, or you’ll end up in Bmabia, which is right next to Bmalia.  In fact, they share the same fire and police dpts.  The young ladies in Bmabia, however, are small titted, unlike the lucious dolls of Bmalia.  Something about the water I suspect. Dave L.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mike,   Ok, already! Perhaps it is only me, but I see no need to burden ROFF with ongoing matters on FAOL. For days on end, we get a bombardment of threads, the vast majority started by yourself, to discuss your beef with folks who don’t regularly contribute here. Wasn’t it you who had to depart us once before over needless bulk caused by other threads? You seem to be taken with the need to justify on this forum why you shouldn’t be blamed for the demise(if indeed such happens)of FAOL. It is perfectly rational that some blame you. Get over it. Get back to the insightful and well written stuff that has endeared you to many. I miss your angling writing, and hope not to offend with these observations.                         regards,                          Tom Littleton "Every now and then when your life gets complicated and the weasels start closing in, the only real cure is to load up on heinous chemicals and then drive like a bastard from Hollywood to Las Vegas."

Tom: I am little more than a lurker here with very few posts to my credit. I have, however, read Mr. Connors and many others posts over the last 6 months. In this time I’ve found him to be free with his knowledge, a prolific contributor to the group, and above all, a reasonable and courteous gentleman. He now finds himself in a position of being slandered, quoted out of context, and generally maligned by persons who aren’t qualified to carry his creel. His integrity has been called in to question by persons with less than honourable methods. I think he has handled himself with more restraint than I could. If he feels that posting to a public forum is the best way to defend his name, I am willing to afford him some lattitude. IMHO, ROFF is a forum for educated (formal or otherwise) and sometimes opinionated, gentleman to gather for thought provoking discussion with fly fishing being the tie that binds (if not always the main topic <G). When I get tired of a thread I just move to the next subject header. Rick O. "Children are born with an innate sense of justice; it usually takes twelve years of public schooling and four more years of college to beat it out of them." "Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell."

Response:

Like I said in another post… "Crusty Factor" — Michael Era

Question:

Will be in the Boston area this summer, and will probably bring my fly rod with me. Any interesting waters near by?

Hi Andrea.  I’m guessing that you’re doing freshwater?  If so I’d recommend the Squannacook River in Townsend.  Close to Boston there really isn’t much except still water.  Although Jamaica Pond right in the city is heavily stocked and said to be excellent.  Out in Townsend about 45 miles +/- from the city I had an excellent night yesterday. You might call Squannacook River Outfitters in either Groton or Townsend for information.  Enjoy, Bill.

Response:

Will be in the Boston area this summer, and will probably bring my fly rod with me. Any interesting waters near by?

Response:

Will be in the Boston area this summer, and will probably bring my fly rod with me. Any interesting waters near by?

Plenty of great fly fishing.  The big question is what type of fishing are you looking for?  Trout?  Striped Bass?  There’s a big difference in the type of tackle.   My web site has plenty of usefull information and is update 5 times a week with fishing news for New England and more specifically Massachsetts.  http://www.geocities.com/Baja/3297/fishing.htm In short, to answer your question, there’s lots of great fishing.  If you can give us a little more info, I’m sure we can give you better tips. Tight Lines — Mark N. Cahill For E-mail remove the _Remove_This from the reply to address. http://www.geocities.com/Baja/3297

Response:

Question:

I am going to be in the Dominican Republic in the next month.  Has anyone heard of any fly fishing there, either fresh or salt water?  Any information would be appreciated.

Response:

I am going to be in the Dominican Republic in the next month.  Has anyone heard of any fly fishing there, either fresh or salt water?  Any information would be appreciated.

Chris, I lived in the DR for a couple of years back in the 60s. Can’t say there would be much freshwater flyfishing; it’d be dangerous in any case. The fresh water streams are infected with Bilharzia. The eastern end of the island has a nice relatively shallow bay, Samana, bordered on the north and south by the eastern ends of the Cordillera Septentrional and the Cordillera Central. It is (or was) a great area for scuba diving, and probably is for fishing, too. Good luck. I envy you, especially at this time of year. Luther

Response:

Thanks for the information.  By the way, what is Bilharzia?   It sounds like some kind of unpleasant parasite and doesn’t seem encouraging for any backcountry exploration.     – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am going to be in the Dominican Republic in the next month.  Has anyone heard of any fly fishing there, either fresh or salt water?  Any information would be appreciated. Chris, I lived in the DR for a couple of years back in the 60s. Can’t say there would be much freshwater flyfishing; it’d be dangerous in any case. The fresh water streams are infected with Bilharzia. The eastern end of the island has a nice relatively shallow bay, Samana, bordered on the north and south by the eastern ends of the Cordillera Septentrional and the Cordillera Central. It is (or was) a great area for scuba diving, and probably is for fishing, too. Good luck. I envy you, especially at this time of year. Luther

Response:

Question:

: I came across something at the Americas for Medical Progress web site you                        <clip<clip<clip : has since been taken over by animal "rights" types. : For more info, see http://www.ampef.org/hsus.htm : "The HSUS bankrolled ballot initiatives in six states in the fall of : 1996, ostensibly aimed at hunters in Oregon, California, Washington : state, Michigan, Idaho and Massachusetts. The real goal behind each : campaign is to remove wildlife and habitat policies from the professional : stewardship of state wildlife managers. : Americans for Medical Progress, the key national research advocacy group : that monitors the animal rights agenda, predicted the HSUS ballot          <clip<clip<clip : and laboratory animal issues and other issues that are appropriate" in the : future."… There was an initiative here in Michigan this last election dealing with the taking of bear over bait or with hounds.  The initiative would have banned both practices. When I found out what was  behind this initiative, it became clear to me it was nothing more than an anti-hunting measure.  The person behind getting it on the ballot claimed it would help bear hunting because it would license more hunters to get the same harvest.  Well, it would also have banned bear hunting during anytime in which baiting for any other specie was allowed. Since we have a deer season that runs from October first to the end of of December, there wouldn’t really be any time to have a bear season. There were a couple of other issues that indicated to me that this whole thing was vacant of anything substantive and was just an anti-hunting measure. Fortunately, it was defeated *SOUNDLY* and another measure passed that gives wildlife management to the professionals. PETA and apparently HSUS supported the initiative. Kind regards, Steve Kernosky Michigan Tech University

Response:

My decision not to hunt is based solely on the fact that it doesn’t really appeal to me.  I don’t view hunting as any worse or better than fishing which I love.  I voted in favor of this initiative just as I would vote to prohibit snagging of fish if it weren’t already illegal.

In my view of the universe, the achilles heel of this legislation is in the fact that it takes "wildlife management" out of the hands of the professionals (ie. Departments of Fish and Game/Wildlife [admittedly an arguable statement, but certainly not improved upon by asking Joe/ Jane-weaned-on-Disney-Classics to take up this responsibility]).  Why do we believe that Fish and Game managers allow detrimental (some would claim "cruel’) practices to continue despite convincing evidence "that even a layman can understand"?  Could it be that the issue is more complex than we appreciate?  Let the wildlife management community do their job.  We should be able to make input into the decision making process.  But, let’s not take the decision making out of the hands of the trained professionals until they give us cause. Clearly, with 27 ballot initiatives on the Oregon ballet this year, the initiative process is being abused.  I always ask myself– "Is this a matter that requires a change to the state constitution, with all the attendant costs, to address the issue?"   The answer is usually, "No". I guess it goes back to the thread about big government vs. individual responsibility.  But, in reverse!  Now were talking about big government (ie. the voting owners of the government) trying to dictate how the little wildlife management community (probably a government agency working with state schools) carries out its responsibilities. Life is weird when you’re left-handed! Charley

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First of all, I actually read the initiative.  Unfortunately I don’t have a copy here in front of me, so this is from memory.  One of the local papers had an editorial slamming the initiative because it didn’t "Outlaw" the practices, just made them illegal for common folk. The text of the initiative stated (not a quote, but the gist) that Wildlife agents or their assigns could use bait or hounds to hunt down and kill problem bears.  Read "bears that are annoying people".  Sort of gives the lie to the idea that the practices are just tooooo barbaric and unfair. It stated that bait could be used to attract bears for "research purposes," whatever that means.  (But I thought that we didn’t want the bears to get used to people feeding them…) Anyone who has ever hunted bear in Western Washington brush knows that the traditional method of controlling bear numbers (sport hunting) just went out the window.  Incidental kills simply will not keep pace with population growth.  Ain’t no way you’re going to be able to target an area and reduce the bear population without resorting to bait and/or hounds. Well, maybe poisoned poodles……no wait, that’s bait…… Of course we could mount a multimillion dollar campaign to supply the bruins with condoms. Steve – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OK.  I’ve no clue why, but I’ll take the bait.  The initiative made it illegal to take bears using bait and/or hounds. Would you care to tell us where in the hell "Govt. agents", "researchers", and "AR Activists" are using bait and/or hounds to kill bears?  Further, if you can actually cite a real and documented example, then tell us when and why it happened. -tgades

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For what it is worth.  THe initiative in WA (which passed handily) was primarily to outlaw the practice of bear baiting – a practice already illegal in all but a couple of the states with viable bear populations.  

In Colorado, we can no longer hunt spring bears, unless they’re gay. TimW (Stolen from a cartoon which lampooned the Amendment 2 passing the popular vote)

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     < snip "The HSUS bankrolled ballot initiatives in six states in the fall of 1996, ostensibly aimed at hunters in Oregon, California, Washington state, Michigan, Idaho and Massachusetts.

Hi Jim, The Washington State initiative is the only one I know about.  It only prohibits bear baiting and hound hunting for cougars.  I don’t hunt but "some of my best friends . . .".  Many hunters supported the initiative but the anti crowd used wild and false statements (along the lines of "they wanna take away your right to hunt, they wanna take away your way of life") in their attempt to defeat the initiative.  Fortunately, the public saw through their BS and passed it. My decision not to hunt is based solely on the fact that it doesn’t really appeal to me.  I don’t view hunting as any worse or better than fishing which I love.  I voted in favor of this initiative just as I would vote to prohibit snagging of fish if it weren’t already illegal. August Kristoferson Watercolor Fish Art http://www.eskimo.com/~augustk

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   Newsgroups: alt.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing.fly    Organization: AM Construction   In fact, the initiative did not outlaw baiting or hound hunting for   bear.  It just made it illegal for sport hunters to use these   techniques.  It’s perfectly OK for govt. employees and "researchers" and   presumably AR activists to use bait to attract bears.     Govt. agents are still allowed to use bait and hounds to kill bears.     Seems like it’s only cruel and barbaric to use hounds or bait if you do   it for sport, and it generates revenues.   Steve

OK.  I’ve no clue why, but I’ll take the bait.  The initiative made it illegal to take bears using bait and/or hounds.   Would you care to tell us where in the hell "Govt. agents", "researchers", and "AR Activists" are using bait and/or hounds to kill bears?  Further, if you can actually cite a real and documented example, then tell us when and why it happened. -tgades

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For what it is worth.  THe initiative in WA (which passed handily) was primarily to outlaw the practice of bear baiting – a practice already illegal in all but a couple of the states with viable bear populations. In Colorado, we can no longer hunt spring bears, unless they’re gay. TimW (Stolen from a cartoon which lampooned the Amendment 2 passing the popular vote)

And don’t get caught with a trap. I hear that the next election, they are going after using hooks on fish. Paul

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In fact, the initiative did not outlaw baiting or hound hunting for bear.  It just made it illegal for sport hunters to use these techniques.  It’s perfectly OK for govt. employees and "researchers" and presumably AR activists to use bait to attract bears.   Govt. agents are still allowed to use bait and hounds to kill bears.   Seems like it’s only cruel and barbaric to use hounds or bait if you do it for sport, and it generates revenues. Steve – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   I came across something at the Americas for Medical Progress web site you   might find interesting. BTW, HSUS is an acronym for the Humane Society of   the United States. It used to be an animal welfare organization but it   has since been taken over by animal "rights" types.   For more info, see http://www.ampef.org/hsus.htm   "The HSUS bankrolled ballot initiatives in six states in the fall of   1996, ostensibly aimed at hunters in Oregon, California, Washington   state, Michigan, Idaho and Massachusetts. The real goal behind each   campaign is to remove wildlife and habitat policies from the professional   stewardship of state wildlife managers. For what it is worth.  THe initiative in WA (which passed handily) was primarily to outlaw the practice of bear baiting – a practice already illegal in all but a couple of the states with viable bear populations.  It was hardly a radical animal rights initiative as is implied above.  THe Oregon initiative was an attempt to reverse an earlier decision to outlaw the practice in that state.  It failed. cheers,         -tgades

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For what it is worth.  THe initiative in WA (which passed handily) was primarily to outlaw the practice of bear baiting – a practice already illegal in all but a couple of the states with viable bear populations.  It was hardly a radical animal rights initiative as is implied above.  THe Oregon initiative was an attempt to reverse an earlier decision to outlaw the practice in that state.  It failed. cheers,       -tgades tgades, Where have you been? Any animal rights initiative is RADICAL! It’s a well-known fact among sportsmen that the ARA’s modus operandi is "divide and conquer". They attack minorities (bear-baiters, Salmon snaggers) within the hunting and fishing sports, hoping that other hunters/fishers won’t care because it’s not "their" type of hunting/fishing. Attitudes like yours ensure that the ARA’s tactics work! Todd

The other method they use is to create paranoia through undercover fanatical defenders of the insane under the guise of "I’m just sticking up for the minorities no matter how ludicress it sounds". Scully and Mulder will expose your devious plot.  You don’t fool me! Mike

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For what it is worth.  THe initiative in WA (which passed handily) was primarily to outlaw the practice of bear baiting – a practice already illegal in all but a couple of the states with viable bear populations.  It was hardly a radical animal rights initiative as is implied above.  THe Oregon initiative was an attempt to reverse an earlier decision to outlaw the practice in that state.  It failed. cheers,    -tgades

tgades, Where have you been? Any animal rights initiative is RADICAL! It’s a well-known fact among sportsmen that the ARA’s modus operandi is "divide and conquer". They attack minorities (bear-baiters, Salmon snaggers) within the hunting and fishing sports, hoping that other hunters/fishers won’t care because it’s not "their" type of hunting/fishing. Attitudes like yours ensure that the ARA’s tactics work! Todd

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  I came across something at the Americas for Medical Progress web site you   might find interesting. BTW, HSUS is an acronym for the Humane Society of   the United States. It used to be an animal welfare organization but it   has since been taken over by animal "rights" types.   For more info, see http://www.ampef.org/hsus.htm   "The HSUS bankrolled ballot initiatives in six states in the fall of   1996, ostensibly aimed at hunters in Oregon, California, Washington   state, Michigan, Idaho and Massachusetts. The real goal behind each   campaign is to remove wildlife and habitat policies from the professional   stewardship of state wildlife managers.

For what it is worth.  THe initiative in WA (which passed handily) was primarily to outlaw the practice of bear baiting – a practice already illegal in all but a couple of the states with viable bear populations.  It was hardly a radical animal rights initiative as is implied above.  THe Oregon initiative was an attempt to reverse an earlier decision to outlaw the practice in that state.  It failed. cheers,         -tgades

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For what it is worth.  THe initiative in WA (which passed handily) was primarily to outlaw the practice of bear baiting – a practice already illegal in all but a couple of the states with viable bear populations.  It was hardly a radical animal rights initiative as is implied above.  THe Oregon initiative was an attempt to reverse an earlier decision to outlaw the practice in that state.  It failed. cheers,    -tgades

You might want to re-read the the ballot question carefully. Question 1 in Massachusetts was advertised to outlaw the use of spring traps in the state. At the End of the lengthy ballot question it also read that the laws are to be changed to allow non sportsman(AKA ARA’s) to serve on the board that governs hunting and fishing in this state. Unfortunatly all the TV ads showed thirty year old footage of animals including household pets caught in the traps with no mention of the second part of the question and question 1 passed by a 3-2 margin. Hopefully this can be changed before the ARA’s take over the board and try to ban hunting and fishing in this state.(Don’t think it can’t happen!!)

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Question:

I’m planning a trip to Belieze in mid November. I know i’ve seen some posts in this group regarding Belieze fishing.  My plan is to head down there with a fishing buddy of mine.  I would like to hear of any suggestions as to where to stay and costs involved. I would be most interrested in staying at a low key low cost, inn or resort, not at a fishing only lodge. I’d be interrested to see if anyone else has had luck finding guides who would be willing to take us out for a day.  How much do they charge and how do I find one. Any other info that you feel would help, please let me know. Thanks in advance, Dave Blizard — Dave Blizard "Pork, the other white meat."

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I’m planning a trip to Belieze in mid November.

I’ve been to Belieze several times. I went there to experiment with bone fishing.  If you need information about bone fishing in Belieze drop me an e-mail.  

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I know i’ve seen some posts in this group regarding Belieze fishing.  My plan is to head down there with a fishing buddy of mine.  I would like to hear of any suggestions as to where to stay and costs involved. I would be most interrested in staying at a low key low cost, inn or resort, not at a fishing only lodge.

We stayed in San Pedro on Ambergris Caye, at the Holiday Hotel (it’s in any Belize travel book.  There are many good guides that will come right to the dock and pick you up.  The hotel proprietor will arange, but you can save a little money by doing it yourself.  Guides we used were Wilbur, Jose and Mario. Yes, believe it or not, the hotel proprietor will probably know who you are talking about by their first name.  email me if you need more info.

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I’ve not got our Belize fishing material up, and it may not be up by November. However, I can suggest a book called The New Key to Belize by Stacy Ritz as a general guide.  There’s a bit of fishing information.  But it’s a superior general guide from Ulysses Press, Box 3440, Berkeley, CA 94703-3440 and worth the $14. I was a field archeologist there in 1959 –British Honduras days — and the fishinw as fabulous.  It’s still quite good both out along the reef and back in the rivers.  I generally take ultralight gear and have a lot of fun with the smaller fish and, in particular the bonefish and snook. Tarpon and bonefish could be super although you might be a bit late for permit. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m planning a trip to Belieze in mid November. I know i’ve seen some posts in this group regarding Belieze fishing.  My plan is to head down there with a fishing buddy of mine.  I would like to hear of any suggestions as to where to stay and costs involved. I would be most interrested in staying at a low key low cost, inn or resort, not at a fishing only lodge. I’d be interrested to see if anyone else has had luck finding guides who would be willing to take us out for a day.  How much do they charge and how do I find one. Any other info that you feel would help, please let me know. Thanks in advance, Dave Blizard — Dave Blizard "Pork, the other white meat."

– ** Louis Bignami, Publisher         http://www.finefishing.com Fine Fishing Internet Magazine                "largest fishing mag on the Net" **

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Question:

Has anyone heard if Saltwater Flyfishing Magazine (not Flyfishing in Saltwater) has started to publish again?  Someone told me that they recently received another issue. Marshall Cutchin

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Yes, the SFF magazine resumes its business, I received my subscription couple weeks back after missing couple issues. To you northeast flyfishers, there is a good article on flat fishing on the Cape Cod area. Thi Nguyen

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Has anyone heard if Saltwater Flyfishing Magazine (not Flyfishing in Saltwater) has started to publish again?  Someone told me that they recently received another issue. Marshall Cutchin

Yep…though I havent had a chance to talk with Barbera Fine yet, they seem to be up and running again. I got an issue last saturday out of the blue.

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Has anyone heard if Saltwater Flyfishing Magazine (not Flyfishing in Saltwater) has started to publish again?  Someone told me that they recently received another issue.

I rcv’d an issue as well. In the Editor’s comments, they mentioned the outage, and that they are back in business again with a new publisher. Good news, I would say!  Alan Barrow  km4ba         | If a little knowledge…..

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