Question:

and why over-planning can lead to a skunking. We all get skunked sometimes but the skunkings that really bug me are the ones where others around me are catching fish and I’m getting diddly.  I don’t enjoy the feeling of incompetence.  The penny has finally dropped as to why (and no, the incompetence isn’t it.) We all go fishing operating on theory, approach, and method, but I’m starting to form the opinion that one can get too hung up on it. Before you dismiss me as being completely loonie consider this example of T.A.& M.: Theory – "Big browns feed at night." Approach – The big, slow pools on river XXXX should be fished at dusk. Method – Take a 6 wt. and cast a deerhair mouse pattern across current allowing the slow movement of the water to drag the mouse slowly across the pool. Unless one is a complete rookie, we all go through some sort of thought process like this before heading out.  But what happens if we do this in too great a detail and try to fit the river to our plans instead of the other way around?  What happens if there’s a hex hatch starting but we are still banging away with our mouse? Before setting out for the Penns clave, I’d pretty well decided that I’d swing wets or streamers if no hatch was happening.  The first day in, I was completely skunked until I gave up on the idea and began dredging the green water with PTs.  On my last trip to the Whirlpool, I had decided on speys and streamers, again nothing until I started dredging the bottom with bunny leeches.  Armed with this experience, I took my bunny leeches to the Catt, dredged the deep runs and was skunked again.  Last Sunday, I went to the Credit even though I knew the river would be blown out, just to try the new rod.  When I got down to the big tree pool, I tied on a black & purple spider spey and a sinking Polyleader as it seemed the appropriate thing to do, then began casting and drifting, getting the feel of the big stick, fixing casting problems, and fiddling with the mending.  Without even trying, I was into a fish.  In PA, the Whirlpool and at the Catt, I was getting skunked while others hooked fish.  At the Credit, I was the only one in the vicinity to get into a fish.  The boot was on the other foot. Duh!  Bingo!  Go with the flow instead or persisting with a pre-planned method.  It seems so blindingly obvious when I write it, but it’s so subtle to detect in real life.  We have to do some planning else we’d show up at the river with no rod but being too focused before leaving the house can saddle one with a goose egg. Perhaps I’m the only angler on the planet to do this, but I’m willing to bet I’m not.  From this point on, there will be at least one less. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Skunkings are primarily caused by being jinxed. To wit: Have you ever noticed that if you are catching fish hand over fist and then explain your success to another angler, the other angler will start catching fish and you will not catch another fish for at least 2 hours, probably the rest of the day? My fishing buddy, Rat, caught more fish on Good Friday than he had ever caught in his life. The rest of the summer, he was notably behind the curve. Even God is in on this. It is all superstition. Absolutely no science or method to it at all… — Citizen Fisherman I’m kinda spooked; I think I may have said too much already… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – and why over-planning can lead to a skunking. We all get skunked sometimes but the skunkings that really bug me are the ones where others around me are catching fish and I’m getting diddly.  I don’t enjoy the feeling of incompetence.  The penny has finally dropped as to why (and no, the incompetence isn’t it.) We all go fishing operating on theory, approach, and method, but I’m starting to form the opinion that one can get too hung up on it. Before you dismiss me as being completely loonie consider this example of T.A.& M.: Theory – "Big browns feed at night." Approach – The big, slow pools on river XXXX should be fished at dusk. Method – Take a 6 wt. and cast a deerhair mouse pattern across current allowing the slow movement of the water to drag the mouse slowly across the pool. Unless one is a complete rookie, we all go through some sort of thought process like this before heading out.  But what happens if we do this in too great a detail and try to fit the river to our plans instead of the other way around?  What happens if there’s a hex hatch starting but we are still banging away with our mouse? Before setting out for the Penns clave, I’d pretty well decided that I’d swing wets or streamers if no hatch was happening.  The first day in, I was completely skunked until I gave up on the idea and began dredging the green water with PTs.  On my last trip to the Whirlpool, I had decided on speys and streamers, again nothing until I started dredging the bottom with bunny leeches.  Armed with this experience, I took my bunny leeches to the Catt, dredged the deep runs and was skunked again.  Last Sunday, I went to the Credit even though I knew the river would be blown out, just to try the new rod.  When I got down to the big tree pool, I tied on a black & purple spider spey and a sinking Polyleader as it seemed the appropriate thing to do, then began casting and drifting, getting the feel of the big stick, fixing casting problems, and fiddling with the mending.  Without even trying, I was into a fish.  In PA, the Whirlpool and at the Catt, I was getting skunked while others hooked fish.  At the Credit, I was the only one in the vicinity to get into a fish.  The boot was on the other foot. Duh!  Bingo!  Go with the flow instead or persisting with a pre-planned method.  It seems so blindingly obvious when I write it, but it’s so subtle to detect in real life.  We have to do some planning else we’d show up at the river with no rod but being too focused before leaving the house can saddle one with a goose egg. Perhaps I’m the only angler on the planet to do this, but I’m willing to bet I’m not.  From this point on, there will be at least one less. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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George Adams writes: FWIW, I have have found the Jailbird to be most effective fished deep, as a dropper or under an indicator.

Shhhhhhhhh! Dave

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what color closed cell foam?

On the original (olive) pattern, I use white or yellow. On the modified (tan) pattern, I use yellow or orange. They seem to be most successful in sizes #18 -#22. I have done well with this pattern tied on scud type (curved) hooks and conventional wet fly hooks. There are a number of midge pups patterns, Serendipity for example, that incorporate a bouyant (deer hair or foam) collar so , at least in theory, the fly rides upright in the water. FWIW, I have have found the Jailbird to be most effective fished deep, as a dropper or under an indicator. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

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 It also helps to keep an open mind, and not get too fixated on one particular aspect (unless, as a couple of people have pointed out, THAT is the goal) if you are _fishing_, rather than experimenting, testing, etc.

Interesting point. On a local freestone stream, most folks hit the pools in the fall with PT nymphs, or midge/bwo dry patterns.  I was down in a spot with a couple of small pools and pocket water.  In the small pools I  was noticing every once in a while a leaf would hit the water and bang! it would get hit.  I watched it a couple of times, figuring out that there was a terrestrial hanging on the falling leaf that was getting hit.  I didn’t find out *what*, though . In addition, there were a lot of yellow jackets around.  In talking with some folks who fished succesfully in that stretch, they were using bee patterns very successfully, even though it was past the traditional time for terrestrials. On the leaves, it could have been some left over ants or something hanging on…don’t know for sure.  But of course, I was geared up with 20 and 22 BWO’s and BHPT’s which were being ignored. Similar observations and results with another angler upstream a bit.  I didn’t have any terrestrial patterns with me, though, or I would have tried them. Rob

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what color closed cell foam? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – George Adams writes: Dave, Try the same pattern with tan dubbing, and either orange or yellow foam. {:-) And maybe change the ribbing to orange.  I’ll give it a try (come June). Dave

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For me, it’s a matter of choosing a method at the house rather than when I arrived at the water, based either on past experience or just for the hell of it.  

Oh, well, yeah, you’re right then:  that’s just beggin’ for a skunkin’. When I would do that (for steelheading, it usually meant leaving one or another of the rods or lines at home, assuming I’d never, ever need it, not today), the invariable result was regret. Good luck on the Credit today.  BTW, how’s that thesis coming? JR

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I agree.  Being flexible is by far the best plan.  The trick to making it work, though, is to stick to it no matter what!  ;) Seriously, I wish life were that simple.  I’ve more than once been skunked in the morning, only to catch a mess in the afternoon, using the same technique.  Often the conditions change to coincide with whatever method we happen to be using.  Sometimes the "changed condition" can be simply moving down or up to a different piece of water.   Your post set me thinking back.  I don’t know that I’ve been skunked more often by sticking stubbornly to one method than by switching willy-nilly every twenty minutes from one fly and presentation to another.  The one thing to avoid, I think, is doing something–whatever it is–for no good reason, casting about blindly, as it were.  If I’ve decided on a method for good reason (weather, look of the water, behavior of the fish, past experience), I’ll generally stick with it until I’ve got an equally good reason to change.  Of course, human nature being what it is, a stretch of two or three fishless hours can in itself grow to seem a sufficient reason <g. Parenthetically, I find if the fishing is pleasant (balmy weather, pleasant scenery), I’m less tempted to change my plan than when it’s cold, grey, windy and raining. JR

For me, it’s a matter of choosing a method at the house rather than when I arrived at the water, based either on past experience or just for the hell of it.  The results are often not that good until I start paying attention to what the conditions are telling me.   I’ll be leaving for the Credit soon and this time I’ll be taking a good look at the water before I decide what to do. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Duh!  Bingo!  Go with the flow instead or persisting with a pre-planned method.  It seems so blindingly obvious when I write it, but it’s so subtle to detect in real life.  We have to do some planning else we’d show up at the river with no rod but being too focused before leaving the house can saddle one with a goose egg. Perhaps I’m the only angler on the planet to do this, but I’m willing to bet I’m not.  From this point on, there will be at least one less.

I agree.  Being flexible is by far the best plan.  The trick to making it work, though, is to stick to it no matter what!  ;) Seriously, I wish life were that simple.  I’ve more than once been skunked in the morning, only to catch a mess in the afternoon, using the same technique.  Often the conditions change to coincide with whatever method we happen to be using.  Sometimes the "changed condition" can be simply moving down or up to a different piece of water.   Your post set me thinking back.  I don’t know that I’ve been skunked more often by sticking stubbornly to one method than by switching willy-nilly every twenty minutes from one fly and presentation to another.  The one thing to avoid, I think, is doing something–whatever it is–for no good reason, casting about blindly, as it were.  If I’ve decided on a method for good reason (weather, look of the water, behavior of the fish, past experience), I’ll generally stick with it until I’ve got an equally good reason to change.  Of course, human nature being what it is, a stretch of two or three fishless hours can in itself grow to seem a sufficient reason <g. Parenthetically, I find if the fishing is pleasant (balmy weather, pleasant scenery), I’m less tempted to change my plan than when it’s cold, grey, windy and raining. JR

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Example:  A couple of years ago I came across a pattern at an Orvis store. It’s called the "jail bird".  A very easy tie – size 20 hook, some closed cell foam at the thorax, olive dubbing with a red thread ribbing.

Dave, Try the same pattern with tan dubbing, and either orange or yellow foam. {:-) George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

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George Adams writes: Dave, Try the same pattern with tan dubbing, and either orange or yellow foam. {:-)

And maybe change the ribbing to orange.  I’ll give it a try (come June). Dave

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Skunkings are primarily caused by being jinxed. To wit: Have you ever noticed that if you are catching fish hand over fist and then explain your success to another angler, the other angler will start catching fish and you will not catch another fish for at least 2 hours, probably the rest of the day?

No, I’ve never noticed that. — Check out the ROFF Calendar at: http://www.ruralnetwork.net/%7Etroutbum/calendar/calendar.html

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willi, I agree with you–it is fun just to try new methods and tools.  I never catch many fish but enjoy spending a little time reading then going out ant trying a new technique. still no success with streamers or upstream casting of nymphs- but then perhaps the fish had not read the same article. Had great fun in Oct. when Big Dale and I shared cabin on small N.C. stream.[ see below I hit wrong button] first time I got a chance to fish same stream for four days with similar weather conditions. Tried dries, nymphs and streamers  for a day each   all with  minor success.  The fourth morning I walked down to the creek, cast three times and caught three fish–then not another in two hours. Some days are more fun than others.      Indian Joe    Wilmington N.C. some days are more fun than others.

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and why over-planning can lead to a skunking. We all get skunked sometimes but the skunkings that really bug me are the ones where others around me are catching fish and I’m getting diddly.  I don’t enjoy the feeling of incompetence.  The penny has finally dropped as to why (and no, the incompetence isn’t it.) We all go fishing operating on theory, approach, and method, but I’m starting to form the opinion that one can get too hung up on it.

It always helps to do some basic planning, and research/ reconnaissance, before hitting the water, just to know what’s there, so you can make an educated guess as to what’s possible, what’s likely, and what else _might_work if your originally-intended method seems to be "off."  It also helps to keep an open mind, and not get too fixated on one particular aspect (unless, as a couple of people have pointed out, THAT is the goal) if you are _fishing_, rather than experimenting, testing, etc. This is one reason why (a disappointingly decreasing percentage, I’d offer) some anglers take a few basic tying supplies with them (certainly on overnight or longer trips), even on all-day trips.  You don’t need a lot of stuff – a water-tight "flip-top" eyeglass or cigarette box will hold a sufficiency – but of course, some at-home freehand tying practice is important unless you want to lug a vise (I don’t, but a "multi-purpose" tool and stout rubber band will do in a pinch, as will a pin vise).  It also helps to be ready to use whatever is at hand as a material.  In fact, some notable "modification" patterns are reported to have originated with less-than-orthodox materials adapted "spur of the moment."  If you do use any less-than-orthodox material, depending on source, or even traditional material long-stored in fishing clothing, I’d advise attempting to remove as much "human scent" as possible – for example, if you use some pocket lint for dubbing, rub it in some natural material, dirt/mud (if it’s not on the reddish side), loam, etc. and rinse in the fishing water.  I can’t say for sure as to whether the fish can tell, but I do think that it’s better safe than sorry.

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Peter Charles wrote…. and why over-planning can lead to a skunking.

Not over planning just stubborness.   You want to do it the way you want and you forget why you’re there. Your way or no way.  A little flexibility and your accumulated knowledge and your back to catching fish. There’s no explaining a skunking. There’s no reason or logic when others are catching and you’re not. Unless you’re totally inept.  It’s just chance. Fate. What brings you back next time. Joel Axelrad **DFD**

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I’m getting into this discussion a little late…  In waters that I know, it is always fun to experiment with something new.  During the off-season (now), I will tie new patterns that I *know* will work.  Call it intuition.  Most times they *do*  work.   Example:  A couple of years ago I came across a pattern at an Orvis store. It’s called the "jail bird".  A very easy tie – size 20 hook, some closed cell foam at the thorax, olive dubbing with a red thread ribbing.  I *knew* it would work at a certain spot on a certain river.  My first short cast with it brought up a beautiful brookie. Another example, Peter, is those Clousers you tied in September.  When I saw them I knew they would work – and they did.  <g I’ve never been skunked on that river – came close a few times, however. That is when I stop my "normal" attack and use something different, something that I *know* they will like.  We’ve heard it said that trout are like women:  find out what they want and give it to them.  The finding out part can be very difficult, especially on waters unfamiliar to you.   Dave

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Peter,   You make, as ever, good points. I think another couple are:1)knowledge of the river you are fishing often prevents bad theory in the first place and 2) on hard-fished rivers, something different often works.   To feebly illustrate: Using your Penn’s example, I could have shown you places in the early morning to hammer them with streamers, even in the lower waters. Also, large wets were working pretty well in the off peak times over the right water. I had a bit more local knowledge(and you and David rendered yourselves out of reach of where I was fishing most days,lest any readers think I was witholding advice).

Well, that was my first thought. You’re right about fishing waters you know well. Knowing them well and the comfort that gives, is one of their pleasures. On my home river, there are a number of small areas I know that fish use as feeding stations that are almost always ignored by other anglers. They are in nondiscript water that I found from watching the fish during low water conditions or dimpling during a hatch. On the other hand, new waters are exciting; from figuring out where and how to fish, to just being in a new beautiful place. Willi

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Peter,   You make, as ever, good points. I think another couple are:1)knowledge of the river you are fishing often prevents bad theory in the first place and 2) on hard-fished rivers, something different often works.   To feebly illustrate: Using your Penn’s example, I could have shown you places in the early morning to hammer them with streamers, even in the lower waters. Also, large wets were working pretty well in the off peak times over the right water. I had a bit more local knowledge(and you and David rendered yourselves out of reach of where I was fishing most days,lest any readers think I was witholding advice).   For the other point, I once fished the Tulpehocken during a decent caddis emergence. I, and several others patiently tried adults, pupa and the like, to little effect. Some fella rolls through with a chartreuse Glo-bug and has browns of 18 inches or so chasing the thing. He landed 4 from the pool I was fishing and moved on…                                Tom L

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I agree that persisting with a pre-planned method is often going to result in few or no fish especially if the conditions don’t warrant the method you’ve chosen. However, there are times, especially on my home river that I decide I’m going to catch fish on my terms or I won’t catch any. Sometimes I just want to fish a particular technique, catching lots of fish isn’t always the goal. Sometimes it’s fun to try and "will" a fish to take something that "shouldn’t" work. Willi

I agree – you know X will catch fish so you try Y just for shits & giggles.  Done it many times.  That’s for waters you know well, however my sins extend to waters that I know squat about.  It’s just a matter of not bringing too many preconceived notions to the water. You can’t hear what the water is telling you over the cacophony of your plans. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – and why over-planning can lead to a skunking. We all get skunked sometimes but the skunkings that really bug me are the ones where others around me are catching fish and I’m getting diddly.  I don’t enjoy the feeling of incompetence.  The penny has finally dropped as to why (and no, the incompetence isn’t it.) Duh!  Bingo!  Go with the flow instead or persisting with a pre-planned method.  It seems so blindingly obvious when I write it, but it’s so subtle to detect in real life.  We have to do some planning else we’d show up at the river with no rod but being too focused before leaving the house can saddle one with a goose egg. Perhaps I’m the only angler on the planet to do this, but I’m willing to bet I’m not.  From this point on, there will be at least one less.

I agree that persisting with a pre-planned method is often going to result in few or no fish especially if the conditions don’t warrant the method you’ve chosen. However, there are times, especially on my home river that I decide I’m going to catch fish on my terms or I won’t catch any. Sometimes I just want to fish a particular technique, catching lots of fish isn’t always the goal. Sometimes it’s fun to try and "will" a fish to take something that "shouldn’t" work. Willi

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Question:

Does anyone know of any flyfishing spots in Spain around Granada? Thanks. Al

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Does anyone know of any flyfishing spots in Spain around Granada? Thanks. Al

Try the Rio Frio, west of Granada near Loja. JR

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Al: Drop Tino an email and see ifhe can help you. He’s somewhere up in the mountains in Spain.

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Havve a look at http://www.cybertrout.com./spain.htm http://usuarios.futurnet.es/m/marlin/index.htm http://www.caldea.com/fish/andfishi.html

Does anyone know of any flyfishing spots in Spain around Granada? Thanks.

Al

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Question:

finer tippets and different flies till ya get it figured out…..have the local shop recommend a fly or two.

And that would be Tulpehocken Creek Outfitters in West Reading.   Helpful, good guys in my limited experience there.    (On W. Penn Ave.?  Tom?) Joe F.

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One of the biggest problems i see are the fish going right up to the fly and kind of nosing it and turning around.  Well  not to keep yammering on and on i’ll close  here and thanks in advance for any and all info. minkaz

As a newbie you will want to get some basics down and have confidence they are working for you.  I suggest you switch to a #14 Royal Wulff dry on a 5X tippet.  If you are using a tapered leader get one which goes down to 5X.  IF you have plenty of casting room get your line into the air and false cast letting out a little line as you go until you get 30 ft. or so out then lay it on the water.  Add power to your strokes as you add line.  Finesse and control will come with practice. Make sure to hold the line in your opposit hand and running over your rod hand index finger.  Watch the fly and at the strike set the hook with the LINE hand and not the rod.  Tightening up on the rod with the index finger at the same time also gives you a quicker set response. DO NOT TAKE YOUR EYES OFF THE FLY NOR DROP THE LINE!  This is important for a newbie to get used to the strike response. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

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: Are you hauling or just casting?  If you’re double hauling and only getting 20 : feet, you do have a problem.  If you are just "flipping" the line, learn to : haul. To get past 20′ you *do not* need to learn to haul!

Um, I didn’t say you did, _but_ to get (long) distance, you *do* need to learn to haul, and it especially important with "basic" equipment (one can do a lot of things if one has no regard for equipment), so they may as well learn now.  That said, the poster gave very little info, but _seemed_ to want distance – "Any tips on increasing distance?"  IMO, yes – learn to haul.  If you disagree, you’re wrong, but I’ll agree to disagree.  Also, learning to haul will, IMO, help with casting/timing/"feeling" in an all-around fashion, but that _is_ JMO. TC, R

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Goldens?  In NE PA?  Um……no, I don’t think so.  You might want to have another look at your field guide. The fish commission here has an excellent stocking program.. They release 50 or 60 goldens in this area as trophy fish each year.  It is true however that we have no natural goldens.

Wow this guy’s pretty good – way to keep your cool minkaz. I’m more concerned with getting a good presentation at this point than distance.

Good man! Regards, Jeff

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I’m was casting about 20 ‘ of fly line.

So that’s roughly a 30′ cast. You can catch a lot of fish with that, as long as the surface isn’t real smooth or the trout wary. Regards, Jeff

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Um, I didn’t say you did, _but_ to get (long) distance, you *do* need to learn to haul, and it especially important with "basic" equipment (one can do a lot of things if one has no regard for equipment), so they may as well learn now.  That said, the poster gave very little info, but _seemed_ to want distance – "Any tips on increasing distance?"  IMO, yes – learn to haul.  If you disagree, you’re wrong, but I’ll agree to disagree.  Also, learning to haul will, IMO, help with casting/timing/"feeling" in an all-around fashion, but that _is_ JMO.

A cast of 30 feet is more than adequate in most stream situations, especially when fishing dries like the gentleman was describing. ALL anglers can control drag and make more accurate presentations and cast at shorter distances. Few, even experienced anglers, can really control drag and presentation on a stream at distances over this.  Instead of trying for more distance, my advice would be to first learn to: cast accurately within this 30′ distance stalk and wade carefully control drag make a "delicate" presentation control the line make reasonable fly selections Willi

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : Are you hauling or just casting?  If you’re double hauling and only getting 20 : feet, you do have a problem.  If you are just "flipping" the line, learn to : haul. To get past 20′ you *do not* need to learn to haul! Um, I didn’t say you did, _but_ to get (long) distance, you *do* need to learn to haul, and it especially important with "basic" equipment (one can do a lot of things if one has no regard for equipment), so they may as well learn now.  That said, the poster gave very little info, but _seemed_ to want distance – "Any tips on increasing distance?"  IMO, yes – learn to haul.  If you disagree, you’re wrong, but I’ll agree to disagree.  Also, learning to haul will, IMO, help with casting/timing/"feeling" in an all-around fashion, but that _is_ JMO. TC, R

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Um, I didn’t say you did, _but_ to get (long) distance, you *do* need to learn to haul, and it especially important with "basic" equipment (one can do a lot of things if one has no regard for equipment), so they may as well learn now.  That said, the poster gave very little info, but _seemed_ to want distance – "Any tips on increasing distance?"  IMO, yes – learn to haul.  If you disagree, you’re wrong, but I’ll agree to disagree.  Also, learning to haul will, IMO, help with casting/timing/"feeling" in an all-around fashion, but that _is_ JMO. A cast of 30 feet is more than adequate in most stream situations, especially when fishing dries like the gentleman was describing. ALL anglers can control drag and make more accurate presentations and cast at shorter distances. Few, even experienced anglers, can really control drag and presentation on a stream at distances over this.  Instead of trying for more distance, my advice would be to first learn to: cast accurately within this 30′ distance stalk and wade carefully control drag make a "delicate" presentation control the line make reasonable fly selections

Agreed, somewhat.  Originally, I was simply addressing the distance question, but I do think learning to haul is a needed skill.  I will admit I may have being somewhat presumptive, but I did think by "distance" the poster meant more than going from 20 feet to 30 feet.  Usually when someone on ROFF (especially newbies) brings up distance, they seem to mean "casting tourney" distances, and, IMO, even the lower end of that range is nearly *impossible* (I’d say *_IMPOSSIBLE_*, but I never say that…<G) without a double haul, especially with an novice and a fishing-built rod, much less a vet and a tournament-built rod (which is why they are/were two different rods).  If you care, look up some of my posts for my opinions on the "gotta go long" thinking. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Willi

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Nahhhh.  You go JeffC.  Just let us know how it works out

Hmm, half the shit I get is for complaining to much and not contributing too discussions actually related too fly fishing.  Half the shit I get is for adding to much too fly fishing discussions.  The other half of the shit I get is for being a general wiseass, jackass, or just plane pimply white ass.  I’m sure you’ll understand if I just post what I want to — Regards, Jeff Before you buy.

Response:

As a newbie you will want to get some basics down and have confidence they are working for you.  I suggest you switch to a #14 Royal Wulff dry on a 5X tippet.

But wouldn’t you want to know what kind of water he’s fishing before recommending a fly like that?  All we know so far as that where he’s fishing is: "small creek about 15 feet across.  I found a nice pool that’s is really close to crysal clear."  It could be a smooth surfaced, clear spring creek.  We also know he’s getting a lot of refusals.  Would you recommend the same or different fly for that? — Regards, Jeff Before you buy.

Response:

We also know he’s getting a lot of refusals.

Correction – he’s getting rises but not hooking them – don’t know if they are refusals or not. — Regards, Jeff Before you buy.

Response:

(uninformed snipped) Regards, Jeff

On Eastern streams the RW is an excellent all-a-round searching pattern well suited for small stream use.  His objective here is to "learn the methodology" and take a few fish.  He will get enough takers on the size and fly type recommended to develop the striking technique, have a fly visible enough to watch on the surface to develop his line handling techniques, and a "close enough" match to many hatches in the region this time of year.  Entomology, selective line handling, water reading, and casting improvement will be developed over time with on-water practice. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

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As a newbie you will want to get some basics down and have confidence they are working for you.  I suggest you switch to a #14 Royal Wulff dry on a 5X tippet. But wouldn’t you want to know what kind of water he’s fishing before recommending a fly like that

    i don’t give a damn if you are fishing the lava flow in hawaii, or the runoff from victoria falls.  if there’s a trout in the water, he will come about as close to hitting a rw as anything else. wayno

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Are you casting 20 feet between you and the fly, or 20 feet of flyline? It may not be that you’re jumping the gun, but of course it might  They may be rising to it but not actually taking it in their mouths.  You could try a more sparsely tied fly (for example a thorax or no hackle instead of a Wullf style, if the water is fairly flat).  Or you could just try a size or 2 smaller.  Or you could try a longer, lighter tippet. Regards, Jeff

Response:

You MAY be setting the hook to fast.  Then again you may not be fast enough.  Fish will spit anything that doesn’t feel right.  Timing is critical. If you’re getting fish to rise to your fly you don’t need to cast any further.  Don’t worry about it. Distance will come with practice. Goldens?  In NE PA?  Um……no, I don’t think so.  You might want to have another look at your field guide.

The fish commission here has an excellent stocking program.. They release 50 or 60 goldens in this area as trophy fish each year.  It is true however that we have no natural goldens.  I was just out for a little bit this morning and the casting is coming along due to some really good advice.  I’m more concerned with getting a good presentation at this point than distance.   just looking ahead for some pond/lake fishing but for now i’m happy as a clam at the creeks and streams in the area..   thank again for all the info minkaz

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Are you casting 20 feet between you and the fly, or 20 feet of flyline? It may not be that you’re jumping the gun, but of course it might  They may be rising to it but not actually taking it in their mouths.  You could try a more sparsely tied fly (for example a thorax or no hackle instead of a Wullf style, if the water is fairly flat).  Or you could just try a size or 2 smaller.  Or you could try a longer, lighter tippet. Regards, Jeff

I’m was casting about 20 ‘ of fly line.  i’ve gotten better today though so the distance is coming.. I received some info stating i was probably moving the rod too much and it was the case…   i had a little rainbow on this morning but it spit the hook.  still lots of fun though. be going out later. thanks again minkaz

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Hello all I’ve been reading this newsgroup for a few days and have gotten a wealth of information from it.  I am new to fly fishing and am looking for some advice.  I’ve gotten my cast down pretty good well good for the creek i fish..  I can’t get decent distance but the presentation seems to be not too bad.  Any tips on increasing distance?  I’m only getting about 20 feet now, which is about double what i was getting heheeh. Now for the big question.. I’ve been fishing for trout in a small creek and  i’ve been using dry flies and have gotten a lot of hits.. fishing is good here in NE PA.  However i can’t seem to get a good hookset or any hookset for that matter…. probably me jumping the gun but any advice on this would be appreciated. Equipment i’ve been using is a cheap combo i wanted to try out just to get into it a bit more to see if i liked it before investing a ton of cash.  It’s a pflueger rod 5-6   using a #6 wf flyline and a tapered leader.  whole thing cost me about 35 bucks and i’ve gotten some activity from the trout just can’t seem to land one.   One of the biggest problems i see are the fish going right up to the fly and kind of nosing it and turning around.  Well  not to keep yammering on and on i’ll close  here and thanks in advance for any and all info. minkaz

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Hello all I’ve been reading this newsgroup for a few days and have gotten a wealth of information from it.  I am new to fly fishing and am looking for some advice.  I’ve gotten my cast down pretty good well good for the creek i fish..  I can’t get decent distance but the presentation seems to be not too bad.  Any tips on increasing distance?  I’m only getting about 20 feet now, which is about double what i was getting heheeh.

Are you hauling or just casting?  If you’re double hauling and only getting 20 feet, you do have a problem.  If you are just "flipping" the line, learn to haul. Now for the big question.. I’ve been fishing for trout in a small creek and  i’ve been using dry flies and have gotten a lot of hits.. fishing is good here in NE PA.  However i can’t seem to get a good hookset or any hookset for that matter…. probably me jumping the gun but any advice on this would be appreciated.

1st, sharpen your hooks, then work on your technique – practice, practice, practice. Equipment i’ve been using is a cheap combo i wanted to try out just to get into it a bit more to see if i liked it before investing a ton of cash.  It’s a pflueger rod 5-6   using a #6 wf flyline and a tapered leader.  whole thing cost me about 35 bucks and i’ve gotten some activity from the trout just can’t seem to land one.  

IMO, the cost of the equipment shouldn’t be the deciding factor in catching fish and see above about practice. One of the biggest problems i see are the fish going right up to the fly and kind of nosing it and turning around.  Well  not to keep yammering on and on i’ll close  here and thanks in advance for any and all info.

Then they almost certainly realize something’s up.  Perhaps a further description of your tackle and typical conditions.  What patterns are you using? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -minkaz

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Hello all I’ve been reading this newsgroup for a few days and have gotten a wealth of information from it.  I am new to fly fishing and am looking for some advice.

        ken fortenberry is our on duty newbie advice person this week, minkaz, and it would appear that he is temporarily occupied elsewhere. i am quite certain that he will return shortly with a wealth of information for you.  if he doesn’t show in an hour or so, email me with specific questions and i will do the best i can to be of assistance. wayno         p.s.:  what kind of vehicle do you own?

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Any tips on increasing distance? check out books and videos from the library Equipment I’ve been using is a cheap combo

good for you…money aint the thing…. One of the biggest problems i see are the fish going right up to the fly and kind of nosing it and turning a round. finer tippets and different flies till ya get it figured out…..have the local shop recommend a fly or two. flies, finer tippets and sneaky’s the key….for now anyhow

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Nahhhh.  You go JeffC.  Just let us know how it works out (notwithstanding the Richardson Lady.  For GOD’S sake, don’t make her mad…). Tom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello all I’ve been reading this newsgroup for a few days and have gotten a wealth of information from it.  I am new to fly fishing and am looking for some advice.         ken fortenberry is our on duty newbie advice person this week, minkaz, and it would appear that he is temporarily occupied elsewhere. i am quite certain that he will return shortly with a wealth of information for you.  if he doesn’t show in an hour or so, email me with specific questions and i will do the best i can to be of assistance. wayno         p.s.:  what kind of vehicle do you own?

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Then they almost certainly realize something’s up.  Perhaps a further description of your tackle and typical conditions.  What patterns are you using? typical conditions where i fish are:  small creek about 15 feet across..  I found a nice pool that’s is really close to crysal clear. i’ts over 6.5 feet deep i know due to me being a newbie at rock climbing also lol.   anyway i’ve been seeing lots and lots of trout in the pool and also at the far end of it in the shallows.  i caught a golden there the other day with my ultralight.  patterns?  i have no idea i’ve been tying on so many different flies and just going with what they chase. So far what’s worked best is an ant and anything that has some yellow or brown color in it.   I have had a few bites but the old heart got pounding and i guess i went to set the hook to fast. Hopefully i’ll settle down with that or i’ll be moving into a cardiac care center.  Again thanks for all the replies

You MAY be setting the hook to fast.  Then again you may not be fast enough.  Fish will spit anything that doesn’t feel right.  Timing is critical. If you’re getting fish to rise to your fly you don’t need to cast any further.  Don’t worry about it. Distance will come with practice. Goldens?  In NE PA?  Um……no, I don’t think so.  You might want to have another look at your field guide.

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   ken fortenberry is our on duty newbie advice person this week, minkaz, and it would appear that he is temporarily occupied elsewhere. i am quite certain that he will return shortly with a wealth of information for you.  if he doesn’t show in an hour or so, email me with specific questions and i will do the best i can to be of assistance. wayno    p.s.:  what kind of vehicle do you own?

hehe i drive an old 79 ford f150 pick up that i’m in the process of restoring.. but i’m not a plummer hehehehe

Response:

Then they almost certainly realize something’s up.  Perhaps a further description of your tackle and typical conditions.  What patterns are you using?

typical conditions where i fish are:  small creek about 15 feet across..  I found a nice pool that’s is really close to crysal clear. i’ts over 6.5 feet deep i know due to me being a newbie at rock climbing also lol.   anyway i’ve been seeing lots and lots of trout in the pool and also at the far end of it in the shallows.  i caught a golden there the other day with my ultralight.  patterns?  i have no idea i’ve been tying on so many different flies and just going with what they chase. So far what’s worked best is an ant and anything that has some yellow or brown color in it.   I have had a few bites but the old heart got pounding and i guess i went to set the hook to fast. Hopefully i’ll settle down with that or i’ll be moving into a cardiac care center.  Again thanks for all the replies minkaz

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Question:

Michael,    I think this group has determined that fly size is more important than color.  Of course presentation is important but that is not a characteristic of the fly. Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What do you think??   We need a good, ON-TOPIC bloodbath on this group, and we haven’t had one in quite a while. Michael Roegner

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Dave,    I would rather have a glass of beer.  We know that colors darken when wet, and that the fish is usually looking at a back lighted object.  We are not certain what light spectrum the fish sees.  The impression the fly makes when sitting on the water or trapped bubbles on a rising insect are probably more important than the exact shade of the insect.  The more you know about the insect the more likely you are to tie a good imitation.  The beer is handy for sipping while tying.  The real test of the fly will come when you present it to the fish. Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I guess that from a lot of posts on here lately (thanks for all the great info) that I should include a glass of water at my bench when I tie. And a specimen of the fly itself. Dave

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I would use a photo, the colors of bugs disappear in minutes after death.   I guess that from a lot of posts on here lately (thanks for all the great info) that I should include a glass of water at my bench when I tie. And a specimen of the fly itself. Dave "M

Harry Mason www.Troutflies.com

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Dale –         You’re not nuts at all, although I suspect that the reason why they turn the color of the rocks doesn’t really derive from the "rocks they eat".  

I was wondering if anyone would else would comment on this. This conjured up the image of some robotic like insects chewing up rocks.           That having been said – I’m going to drop a pretty major bombshell here in the hopes of sparking some discussion.  I have found that precise pattern, precise coloration, etc., is generally pointless in most (if not all) flyfishing.   What I’ve generally found is that just about ANY fairly representative pattern will catch as many, and as large, fish as the most perfectly colored, precisely matched pattern.  

I’ve brought this topic up in the past and not much interest was generated. In fact one poster said he couldn’t think of anything more boring. (I guess talking about someone’s underwear etc. has more interest to this person) I pretty much agree with you. Presentation is where it’s at. Fly size however, is VERY important. Pattern type is next i.e.. up wing, down wing, emerger, etc. Color is not very important. An exception to this is with heavily fished C&R waters, especially in tailwaters with their limited range of insect types. Some fish in these places can become hyperselective to pattern and color. This is just one of the peculiarities these fish exhibit.         What does make a difference?   Presentation is a major issue, being careful not to spook the fish,  observation of their feeding patterns,  ability to spot fish, knowledge of where they’re likely to hold, and patience.   If you cover those items, you’ll usually find that you can catch fish just fine with a pattern that doesn’t do such a precise job of matching the naturals.

My advice to new anglers is to spend less time on changing flies and more time on making a good presentation. Stalk a fish to get closer, change position, make more or different mends, change tippet length or size, add or remove weight etc. etc. etc. Correct presentation is a very broad and complex topic. It’s the most difficult of the skills in flyfishing.         I have a theory about all this – the myth that you have to match the naturals so precisely was created primarily to catch FISHERMEN rather than FISH.  And it has worked well, primarily because its always easier to tell yourself that "If I only had color X, or pattern Y, I’d be catching fish"  than it is to recognize that your own skills are what need improvement.

I also think that searching for the "perfect" fly is futile. I’ve never run into the situation where there was a "right" fly although some other posters here swear they have been in this situation. I fish mainly a range of different styles of flies in a range of sizes rather than specific patterns. I probably use about 4 different styles 90% of the time. Willi

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Some may think I’m nuts about this also, but I think some of the color of the bugs is determined by the color of rocks they eat.

Bugs eat rocks? — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Good points Ernie and Harry, and some of the best looking dry fly’s on the water IMHO that I tie are Compara-dun’s out of "Compara-hatch" booklet by Caucci/Nasatsi. Easier to tie than the traditional ones for me, what is the consensus on compare vs. traditional here, besides the traditional might be better on slower water?

I like Compara dun style better for slower water.  I especially like them using CDC for the wing instead of deer. It’s my usual choice for mayfly feeding fish on flat water. They can also be changed to an emerger at streamside by flattening the wing along the back.  You can fish them dry, damp or wet. Versital fly. Willi

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How many feathers do you use for the wing ? What kind of tailing, now that I’m ask a million questions.;-)   I like this pattern as well but it floats for only a short period, in my experence. I think the tailing is very important  with slow water bugs and CDC. I like Compara dun style better for slower water.  I especially like them using CDC for the wing instead of deer. It’s my usual choice for mayfly feeding fish on flat water. They can also be changed to an emerger at streamside by flattening the wing along the back.  You can fish them dry, damp or wet. Versital fly. Willi

Harry Mason www.Troutflies.com

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – On those that I’ve examined, the thorax is sort of a cream with dun mixed in and the abdomen is an olive with rust and the wings definitely a medium to dark dun. Like I’ve always said, nothing in nature is monotone… it’s always a mixture of colors and that’s why the best dubbing is blended from different materials and colors.  You never get exact matches and day-to-day, you’ll find the naturals in differing shades, depending on the weather, natural lighting conditions, time of day they hatch and other variables. Also keep in mind, the color of your imitation is influenced by reflected light, how wet the materials get and other factors as well, so what comes off the vise is likely to look drastically different when it’s on the water….. and especailly when it’s viewed from beneath the water by a creature with a highly different vision system. Others? Larry #:)#

______  You make an excellent point Larry and its the same one I’ve offered for many years.  The wise fly tier will always "test-dress" a bit of sample dubbing or a fly at the fly tying bench with the fly dressing of their choice.  There is no sense in having a Light Cahill turning into a Dark Cahill after it gets wet beyond the desired shade required.  Of course my favorite choice shows the shade changes perfectly because it duplicates how the fly will look on the water to a finicky trout, and lets face it, there are more and more finicky, experienced, trout then ever before. Again Larry, I agree with you.  If it isn’t perfect at the bench, it won’t be perfect astream. Mr.G.

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Some may think I’m nuts about this also, but I think some of the color of the bugs is determined by the color of rocks they eat. For an example if the rocks are primaily granite their main color might take on a light pink effect as well as all the other colors. Big Dale

Response:

Dale –         You’re not nuts at all, although I suspect that the reason why they turn the color of the rocks doesn’t really derive from the "rocks they eat".   I would expect that it has more to do with protective coloration – an insect has a much better chance of surviving to reproduce if their predators can’t pick them out against the background colors.         That having been said – I’m going to drop a pretty major bombshell here in the hopes of sparking some discussion.  I have found that precise pattern, precise coloration, etc., is generally pointless in most (if not all) flyfishing.   What I’ve generally found is that just about ANY fairly representative pattern will catch as many, and as large, fish as the most perfectly colored, precisely matched pattern.  This is an area of special interest for me, and I frequently test it by switching patterns to a off-color or more general pattern while my buddies obsess on "matching the hatch".   There doesn’t seem to be any difference at all.             What does make a difference?   Presentation is a major issue, being careful not to spook the fish,  observation of their feeding patterns,  ability to spot fish, knowledge of where they’re likely to hold, and patience.   If you cover those items, you’ll usually find that you can catch fish just fine with a pattern that doesn’t do such a precise job of matching the naturals.         I have a theory about all this – the myth that you have to match the naturals so precisely was created primarily to catch FISHERMEN rather than FISH.  And it has worked well, primarily because its always easier to tell yourself that "If I only had color X, or pattern Y, I’d be catching fish"  than it is to recognize that your own skills are what need improvement.           What do you think??   We need a good, ON-TOPIC bloodbath on this group, and we haven’t had one in quite a while.                                         Michael Roegner – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Some may think I’m nuts about this also, but I think some of the color of the bugs is determined by the color of rocks they eat. For an example if the rocks are primaily granite their main color might take on a light pink effect as well as all the other colors. Big Dale

Response:

…         What do you think??  

I’ll pull out the weasel words on this one. While I tend to agree most of the time, I’ve been in situations, rarely, where a precise match would catch fish and no other fly would. I don’t remember the name of the stream but it’s just outside Jackson, WY. One of the toughest places I’ve ever fished. They were taking Callibaetis spinners and that was IT. Another data point is fishing Joe’s Hoppers on Slough Creek. So long as the fly was whole I had no trouble catching those big, dumb cutts but as soon as the turkey wing got just the least bit separated it was like turning off the lights. Put on a new hopper and the lights come back on. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

I guess that from a lot of posts on here lately (thanks for all the great info) that I should include a glass of water at my bench when I tie. And a specimen of the fly itself. Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – On those that I’ve examined, the thorax is sort of a cream with dun mixed in and the abdomen is an olive with rust and the wings definitely a medium to dark dun. Like I’ve always said, nothing in nature is monotone… it’s always a mixture of colors and that’s why the best dubbing is blended from different materials and colors.  You never get exact matches and day-to-day, you’ll find the naturals in differing shades, depending on the weather, natural lighting conditions, time of day they hatch and other variables. Also keep in mind, the color of your imitation is influenced by reflected light, how wet the materials get and other factors as well, so what comes off the vise is likely to look drastically different when it’s on the water….. and especailly when it’s viewed from beneath the water by a creature with a highly different vision system. Others? Larry #:)# ______  You make an excellent point Larry and its the same one I’ve offered for many years.  The wise fly tier will always "test-dress" a bit of sample dubbing or a fly at the fly tying bench with the fly dressing of their choice.  There is no sense in having a Light Cahill turning into a Dark Cahill after it gets wet beyond the desired shade required.  Of course my favorite choice shows the shade changes perfectly because it duplicates how the fly will look on the water to a finicky trout, and lets face it, there are more and more finicky, experienced, trout then ever before. Again Larry, I agree with you.  If it isn’t perfect at the bench, it won’t be perfect astream. Mr.G.

Response:

Good points Ernie and Harry, and some of the best looking dry fly’s on the water IMHO that I tie are Compara-dun’s out of "Compara-hatch" booklet by Caucci/Nasatsi. Easier to tie than the traditional ones for me, what is the consensus on compare vs. traditional here, besides the traditional might be better on slower water? Dave (Harry great photo’s on your site) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would use a photo, the colors of bugs disappear in minutes after death. I guess that from a lot of posts on here lately (thanks for all the great info) that I should include a glass of water at my bench when I tie. And a specimen of the fly itself. Dave "M Harry Mason www.Troutflies.com

Response:

On those that I’ve examined, the thorax is sort of a cream with dun mixed in and the abdomen is an olive with rust and the wings definitely a medium to dark dun. Like I’ve always said, nothing in nature is monotone… it’s always a mixture of colors and that’s why the best dubbing is blended from different materials and colors.  You never get exact matches and day-to-day, you’ll find the naturals in differing shades, depending on the weather, natural lighting conditions, time of day they hatch and other variables. Also keep in mind, the color of your imitation is influenced by reflected light, how wet the materials get and other factors as well, so what comes off the vise is likely to look drastically different when it’s on the water….. and especailly when it’s viewed from beneath the water by a creature with a highly different vision system. Others? Larry #:)#

Response:

______  Dear Pete: I suppose, one of the main flies in my arsenal is indeed various sizes of the "Blue Winged Olive Dun."  In fact, the majority of my finest flies that I tie are from the exact patterns as described in Ernie Scwiebert’s masterful work, "Matching The Hatch."  I personally think no fly fisherman would find themselves wanting on any stream in the United States if he tied up a half dozen of every fly in this magnificent book.  It is the base of my entire fly collection that I carry in my vest for the last 44 years! The Blue Winged Olive Duns along with the Iron Duns are perhaps the mainstay of a starting line on most streams, early in the season, especially the Iron Blue Dun on a river such as the Frying Pan, Gunnison, Blue River, Fire Hole, and the list goes on.  The Blue Winged Olive Dun has a total range across the United States from New York State, westward beyond Montana. I would suggest that these ‘Steak and Potato’ flies be best researched and tied out of the classic volume I have just mentioned.  I don’t think any fly fisherman could do better regarding descriptions and the basic history of some of the finest flies used on the American Continent. To wit:  Thank You Mr. Ernie Schwiebert. Mr. G.

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Funny – we’re using the same name for different insects. In Europe the Blue Winged Olive is the anglers name for the Ephemerella ignita. From May to September – don’t leave home without it! Some nice pics at: http://www.fishing-in-wales.co.uk/wildlife/insects/upwing/bwolive.htm Herman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … From what I understand, BWO is a fisherman’s term that describes a number of different species of mayflies. … Bluewinged Olive is the fishermen’s name for the subimago of several Baetis spp. and Pseudocloeon spp. and the subimago Ephemerella flavilinea. What I call "the little grey ones". — Ken Fortenberry

–         Cheers, Herman         Herman Nijland         Daytime webmaster         Lifetime flyfisher

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[snip] Also keep in mind, the color of your imitation is influenced by reflected light, how wet the materials get and other factors as well, so what comes off the vise is likely to look drastically different when it’s on the water….. and especailly when it’s viewed from beneath the water by a creature with a highly different vision system.

Is he talking about Louie?

Response:

Excellent book and excellent fly.  Perfect for Colorado and New Mexico streams. Well said, Mr. G DP – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ______  Dear Pete: I suppose, one of the main flies in my arsenal is indeed various sizes of the "Blue Winged Olive Dun."  In fact, the majority of my finest flies that I tie are from the exact patterns as described in Ernie Scwiebert’s masterful work, "Matching The Hatch."  I personally think no fly fisherman would find themselves wanting on any stream in the United States if he tied up a half dozen of every fly in this magnificent book.  It is the base of my entire fly collection that I carry in my vest for the last 44 years! The Blue Winged Olive Duns along with the Iron Duns are perhaps the mainstay of a starting line on most streams, early in the season, especially the Iron Blue Dun on a river such as the Frying Pan, Gunnison, Blue River, Fire Hole, and the list goes on.  The Blue Winged Olive Dun has a total range across the United States from New York State, westward beyond Montana. I would suggest that these ‘Steak and Potato’ flies be best researched and tied out of the classic volume I have just mentioned.  I don’t think any fly fisherman could do better regarding descriptions and the basic history of some of the finest flies used on the American Continent. To wit:  Thank You Mr. Ernie Schwiebert. Mr. G.

Response:

Aside from the "bad weather fly" part (must be a western thing – we get ‘em all the way up through Maine even on really nice days)

It might be an altitude/sun thing ie. sun more intense at higher altitude. Out West cloud cover really makes a difference. They will hatch out on sunny days but much better with cloud cover.  If you’re on the stream on a sunny day and you get a period of cloud cover, even for a relatively short period of time, the hatch intensifies and the fish will start feeding.  When the sun comes out the whole thing stops. I’ve been on the river during partly cloudy days and have see this cycle repeated all day long. Willi

Response:

Hi Guys, I was on the Lower Kings River the other day and I picked up what was defined to me as a BWO or blue wing olive.  This was the first actual specimen I had ever seen.  Upon close examination, the thorax showed up to be what I would describe as a light yellowish olive or even a very light lime green color.  The wings were the standard gray which I believe is also called dun color. I tied up a few in the same color (from memory) using the parachute style, and they came out pretty nice after a few tries.  In speaking with a bud regarding this fly, he stated that he thought the thorax is often other colors such as gray, bluish or yellow.  Not that I doubt him, but I have not found any materials which show me other variations of the blue wing olive. I don’t see blue wing yellows or blue wing grays either. <g Any thoughts on this topic? Pete

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BWO’s do vary in the color of the body as well as the shade of gray of the wing. They also vary in size. On a given river, these differences are usually seasonal. As a whole they tend to get smaller as the season goes on. In the Spring, they will be of a size 16 or 18. By late Fall and Winter they will be down to a 20 or 22. Different watersheds also have different BWO’s. From what I understand, BWO is a fisherman’s term that describes a number of different species of mayflies. The commonality is a gray wing and a body with some olive tones in it. The body often has other colors in it including: gray, yellow, rust, brown. cream etc. When tying them I generally blend an olive with several other colors. Most of the time, I prefer a parachute or paradun style. BWO’s are a "bad weather" fly.  They hatch heaviest on overcast days. In the Rockies, the BWO’s are the most consistent Mayfly.  They will hatch every month, even in mid Winter during a warm spell. Just before runoff, there are some very strong hatches on cloudy days that provide some excellent surface fishing. The hatches also seem to get stronger again in the Fall. Most of the time, I prefer a parachute or paradun style. Willi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Guys, I was on the Lower Kings River the other day and I picked up what was defined to me as a BWO or blue wing olive.  This was the first actual specimen I had ever seen.  Upon close examination, the thorax showed up to be what I would describe as a light yellowish olive or even a very light lime green color.  The wings were the standard gray which I believe is also called dun color. I tied up a few in the same color (from memory) using the parachute style, and they came out pretty nice after a few tries.  In speaking with a bud regarding this fly, he stated that he thought the thorax is often other colors such as gray, bluish or yellow.  Not that I doubt him, but I have not found any materials which show me other variations of the blue wing olive. I don’t see blue wing yellows or blue wing grays either. <g Any thoughts on this topic? Pete

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And I always thought it meant "Budwiser With Onionrings" I guess I’ll have more room in my vest next time out for flies Dave ( the book is on my wish list, thanks George) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ______  Dear Pete: I suppose, one of the main flies in my arsenal is indeed various sizes of the "Blue Winged Olive Dun."  In fact, the majority of my finest flies that I tie are from the exact patterns as described in Ernie Scwiebert’s masterful work, "Matching The Hatch."  I personally think no fly fisherman would find themselves wanting on any stream in the United States if he tied up a half dozen of every fly in this magnificent book.  It is the base of my entire fly collection that I carry in my vest for the last 44 years! The Blue Winged Olive Duns along with the Iron Duns are perhaps the mainstay of a starting line on most streams, early in the season, especially the Iron Blue Dun on a river such as the Frying Pan, Gunnison, Blue River, Fire Hole, and the list goes on.  The Blue Winged Olive Dun has a total range across the United States from New York State, westward beyond Montana. I would suggest that these ‘Steak and Potato’ flies be best researched and tied out of the classic volume I have just mentioned.  I don’t think any fly fisherman could do better regarding descriptions and the basic history of some of the finest flies used on the American Continent. To wit:  Thank You Mr. Ernie Schwiebert. Mr. G.

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I was told by an entomologist/flyfisherman that there were twenty different species called BWO that he was aware of. He felt that there probably was really close to a hundred. Willi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … From what I understand, BWO is a fisherman’s term that describes a number of different species of mayflies. … Bluewinged Olive is the fishermen’s name for the subimago of several Baetis spp. and Pseudocloeon spp. and the subimago Ephemerella flavilinea. What I call "the little grey ones". — Ken Fortenberry

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – BWO’s do vary in the color of the body as well as the shade of gray of the wing. They also vary in size. On a given river, these differences are usually seasonal. As a whole they tend to get smaller as the season goes on. In the Spring, they will be of a size 16 or 18. By late Fall and Winter they will be down to a 20 or 22. Different watersheds also have different BWO’s. From what I understand, BWO is a fisherman’s term that describes a number of different species of mayflies. The commonality is a gray wing and a body with some olive tones in it. The body often has other colors in it including: gray, yellow, rust, brown. cream etc. When tying them I generally blend an olive with several other colors. Most of the time, I prefer a parachute or paradun style. BWO’s are a "bad weather" fly.  They hatch heaviest on overcast days. In the Rockies, the BWO’s are the most consistent Mayfly.  They will hatch every month, even in mid Winter during a warm spell. Just before runoff, there are some very strong hatches on cloudy days that provide some excellent surface fishing. The hatches also seem to get stronger again in the Fall. Most of the time, I prefer a parachute or paradun style.

Aside from the "bad weather fly" part (must be a western thing – we get ‘em all the way up through Maine even on really nice days) you provided some solid information on this pattern, William. I don’t have enough fingers and toes to count all the body color variations I’ve seen used on BWOs – though the wings, hackles, and tails are nearly always a medium blue dun (and I wouldn’t tie ‘em with anything else). Anyone making the Y2K Maine Conclave should have a bunch of these at the ready, size 16-20 (particularly 18-20)… /daytripper

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… From what I understand, BWO is a fisherman’s term that describes a number of different species of mayflies. …

Bluewinged Olive is the fishermen’s name for the subimago of several Baetis spp. and Pseudocloeon spp. and the subimago Ephemerella flavilinea. What I call "the little grey ones". — Ken Fortenberry

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Question:

I agree…I’ll never forget …I sent a friends brother a joke and of course the header contained all the addresses and names of other friends….this guy ’s brother sent everyone of them ads for his vitamins etc….I was very up[set that this guy would take advantage.. But people will do anything for a buck and fly fishing is no exception!

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rummy,                                                                                  I think they all do it everywhere!It ain’t just here!From   Mr. G to me. (don’t confuse us though)Whether it’s proper or not I’m not sure !Oh by the way if your planning a trip to the Smokies I live here & I’m a guide & fltyer who specializes in southern appalachian patterns if you need any contact me at

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What’s your point! Wayne to fish is human…to release divine (junk snipped)  comments on the above would be very interesting. Tom Montauk Point

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Anybody notice how many more ads are appearing on this site in the guise of good ol boy conversation. Everything from folksy advise and down home humor from tackle store owners who just happen to include their address and phone number to a guy trying to push his fly line and wax as a gesture of frienship to us all.   No matter how you cut it, they are commercial solicitations for business.   Is this what we want?  Is this the future of this site?  If this is what the majority wants its fine with me but it is a sure bet if this type of folksy ill-disguised  hustling continues unabated, it will eventually take over. comments on the above would be very interesting. Tom Montauk Point

Hi Tom:         Two of the people that I have the most respect for, on this group, are Bill Kiene and Al Beatty. Al’s been gone mostly since taking a job with Hoffman Hackle and that was our loss, especially in the area of tying techniques. Bill’s been a great source of info regarding product and destinations. I’ve never seen a post from either of them that they didn’t offer some valuable information often to questions that they’ve answered many times over the last few years.         Tag lines can also give some basis for credability in an uncontrolled medium that has more than it’s share of poor information. Bill knows what product passes through his store and how satisfied his clients are with that product. In a retail position he also handles and uses a lot more stuff than most of us are familiar with or will use in several years. When someone asks about travel destinations or lodges he can offer some good objective information as someone that’s been to a number of different places, rather than a guy that made one trip several years ago. The guy that went to Mexico once can offer some helpful info based on his trip but the guy I really want to hear from is the one who has been there at several different times, seasons and locations. He’s got the experience to compare one place or time from another.         I’ve been guiding in Southwest Alaska for several years and lived on the Kenai Peninsula prior to that. I generally restrict my responses to guestions of those areas,and when I do respond I’ll usually include the name of the lodge where I work.         I’ve been on this group since 93 and I post very little and read perhaps 10% of the threads here each day. I lost my interest a long time ago in answering another thread on the best way to tie on a dropper or how to cast with lead. I do however have a lot of respect for guys like Bill and Al that have offered  a lot of very good and objective information over the years and I’ve never seen them hyping themselves or their products. Jim McGrath

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amazingly witty words: Anybody notice how many more ads are appearing on this site in the guise of good ol boy conversation. Everything from folksy advise and down home humor from tackle store owners who just happen to include their address and phone number to a guy trying to push his fly line and wax as a gesture of frienship to us all.   No matter how you cut it, they are commercial solicitations for business.   Is this what we want?  Is this the future of this site?  If this is what the majority wants its fine with me but it is a sure bet if this type of folksy ill-disguised  hustling continues unabated, it will eventually take over. comments on the above would be very interesting. Tom Montauk Point

I feel there are two types of advertising.  On the one side there is the advertising that is actually benifitial to the consumer (and I don’t mean by the product being advertised).  For example, television commercials pay for the programing seen on the t.v., banners on websites allow for certain websites to remain open, etc.   Then there is the unacceptable (in my opinion) advertising.  For example, junk mail (I hate it), road side billboards (I hate ‘em even more), and spam (I REALLY hate this!).  This type of advertising does not provide the consumer with anything in return for the advertising. Now I bring up the point I want to make, Mr. G.  Where does he fall in these catagories?  Well, I feel that he (other than the accidental mass mailing) falls within the former.  He advertises in this group but, he also contributes more than probably 75% of the people that read ROFF.  Personally, I don’t like the advertising (I hate almost every form of it) but I feel that since Mr. G contributes so much to this group, he has earned the right to advertise (if you don’t like it, don’t read his posts). Brian (the slightly drunk and pondering) Hailey

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 ….    Two of the people that I have the most respect for, on this group, are Bill Kiene and Al Beatty. Al’s been gone mostly since taking a job with Hoffman Hackle and that was our loss, especially in the area of tying techniques. Bill’s been a great source of info regarding product and destinations. …..

I talked to Al last night at the San Meteo Show and yes he is up to his neck in Hoffman feathers. He doesn’t read hear much or for that matter even post. He said he could be reached at the boards at the flyhop.com, mainly because he is the main judge of all the tying contests that Hoffman sponsors. — Doug Knight                                     metalfab<atpacbell.net Junk e-mail, solicitation, sales, products and services gladly accepted at $500.00 per mailing and billed directly to your ISP.

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Very good point. The question is what can we do about it? It’s fine and dandy foe someone to advertize a personal sale of a rod, reel or other item he has no use for, but to push their commercial goods on this newsgroup is really cheap! Advertise in one or all of the many publications available. I’m sure more sales will come of that and less flyfishers will be offended. We need this space to share, inquire and discuss our hobby & sport. I don’t have the time or inclination to navigate through so much spam to find an interestig message. Get off our turf! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anybody notice how many more ads are appearing on this site in the guise of good ol boy conversation. Everything from folksy advise and down home humor from tackle store owners who just happen to include their address and phone number to a guy trying to push his fly line and wax as a gesture of frienship to us all.   No matter how you cut it, they are commercial solicitations for business.   Is this what we want?  Is this the future of this site?  If this is what the majority wants its fine with me but it is a sure bet if this type of folksy ill-disguised  hustling continues unabated, it will eventually take over. comments on the above would be very interesting. Tom Montauk Point

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Tom your right that this is an interesting issue. I’d be interested to hear what other think as well. There is no question that get rich quick and send money message (or those promoting sex sites) are not appropriate for this board but what about those message that are related to fly fishing. I mean this is a fly fishing board and posts whether promoting a fly fishing product or a fly fishing site I think should be allowed and welcomed as this is related to the topic of the newsgroup right? Much like a fly fishing magazine you have great articles editorials, heck in resources like events listed and among all those great articles and resource you have ad related to the topic of the magazine promoting products and services related to fly fishing. It would be one thing to have someone post everyday saying the same thing its another thing when someone posts once a week or twice a month about something related to fly fishing that others might enjoy right? How does everyone feel about this. I’m very interested in others views as this has become a continuing problems for business owners, site owners, and newsgroup viewers as well as the general public related to spam message and unsolicited email and such. Thanks for bring this up Tom it was a good idea to get everyone talking about this. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anybody notice how many more ads are appearing on this site in the guise of good ol boy conversation. Everything from folksy advise and down home humor from tackle store owners who just happen to include their address and phone number to a guy trying to push his fly line and wax as a gesture of frienship to us all.   No matter how you cut it, they are commercial solicitations for business.   Is this what we want?  Is this the future of this site?  If this is what the majority wants its fine with me but it is a sure bet if this type of folksy ill-disguised  hustling continues unabated, it will eventually take over.  comments on the above would be very interesting. Tom Montauk Point

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Anybody notice how many more ads are appearing on this site in the guise of good ol boy conversation. Everything from folksy advise and down home humor from tackle store owners who just happen to include their address and phone number to a guy trying to push his fly line and wax as a gesture of frienship to us all.

Yeah, I know how you feel. It used to bum me out too until I downloaded SpamOff!  (the usenet nntp filtering software that removes spam on the fly) from http://www.spamoff.com !   No matter how you cut it, they are commercial solicitations for business.   Is this what we want?  Is this the future of this site?  

It’s not what I want! In fact I think it’s high time we took charge of this situation.  A good first step is probably downloading SpamOff! from http://www.spamoff.com Maybe if none of us read their stupid ads they’ll go away! If this is what the majority wants its fine with me but it is a sure bet if this type of folksy ill-disguised  hustling continues unabated, it will eventually take over.

Sometimes I feel like it already has! Or I used to, anyway, in the pre-SpamOff! days. The days before some kind soul pointed me toward http://www.spamoff.com where I found the usenet nntp filtering software that removes spam on the fly.  comments on the above would be very interesting.

Actually there might be some more comments on one of my favorite WWW discussion forums, http://www.spamoff.com, there’s a message board on these types of issues on that site. (PS: While you’re there you might want to download a FREE demo version of SpamOff! It’s the usenet nntp filtering software that removes spam on the fly!)

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Anybody notice how many more ads are appearing on this site in the guise of good ol boy conversation. Everything from folksy advise and down home humor from tackle store owners who just happen to include their address and phone number to a guy trying to push his fly line and wax as a gesture of frienship to us all. Yeah, I know how you feel. It used to bum me out too until I downloaded SpamOff!  (the usenet nntp filtering software that removes spam on the fly) from http://www.spamoff.com !

Is this a spam for SpamOff? BTW, I couldn’t find a DNS entry for that URL. Maybe their server is down, or maybe they no longer exist.

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Yeah, I know how you feel. It used to bum me out too until I downloaded SpamOff!  (the usenet nntp filtering software that removes spam on the fly) from http://www.spamoff.com ! Is this a spam for SpamOff? BTW, I couldn’t find a DNS entry for that URL. Maybe their server is down, or maybe they no longer exist.

It was a joke…or at least that’s what I took it to be. Cute though.      - Ken — "Time is but the stream I go a-fishin in. I drink at it, but while I drink I see the sandy bottom and detect how shallow it is. It’s thin current slides away, but eternity remains."     – H.D. Thoreau

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        Two of the people that I have the most respect for, on this group, are Bill Kiene and Al Beatty. Al’s been gone mostly since taking a job with Hoffman Hackle and that was our loss, especially in the area of tying techniques. Bill’s been a great source of info regarding product and destinations. I’ve never seen a post from either of them that they didn’t offer some valuable information often to questions that they’ve answered many times over the last few years.

snip Jim – I agree completely.  Has the sun returned yet up there? mark Faulkner

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Smokey,     I come down to the smokey’s 3 or 4 times a year (sometimes I fish the motor trail on the north end of the park) Maybe we can hook up a time or two this year if the price is right ! Good Luck David – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – rummy,          I think they all do it everywhere!It ain’t just here!From   Mr. G to me. (don’t confuse us though)Whether it’s proper or not I’m not sure !Oh by the way if your planning a trip to the Smokies I live here & I’m a guide & fltyer who specializes in southern appalachian patterns if you need any contact me at

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(the usenet nntp filtering software that removes spam on the fly) from http://www.spamoff.com !

If you have spam on the fly, wouldn’t that be considered bait fishing?? Inquiring minds want to know. George Adams

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Anybody notice how many more ads are appearing on this site in the guise of good ol boy conversation. Everything from folksy advise and down home humor from tackle store owners who just happen to include their address and phone number to a guy trying to push his fly line and wax as a gesture of frienship to us all.   No matter how you cut it, they are commercial solicitations for business.   Is this what we want?  Is this the future of this site?  If this is what the majority wants its fine with me but it is a sure bet if this type of folksy ill-disguised  hustling continues unabated, it will eventually take over.  comments on the above would be very interesting. Tom Montauk Point

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Question:

Damn!  I know that Eagle Claw was a cheap rod but I didn’t expect it to snap into on the third use!  This 7′ graphite rod broke about 1 inch above the graphite ferrule.  Any way to apply a new graphite ferrule?  I can find metal ferrules but not graphite.  This rod only cost me $30.  Worth salvaging or should I simply chuck it and buy another?  This was my 3 wt. temp. rod George. Where is my Bastard?  No small stream fishing this weekend and its 60 here today! Wayne to fish is human….to release divine

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Damn!  I know that Eagle Claw was a cheap rod but I didn’t expect it to snap into on the third use!  This 7′ graphite rod broke about 1 inch above the graphite ferrule.  Any way to apply a new graphite ferrule?  I can find metal ferrules but not graphite.  This rod only cost me $30.  Worth salvaging or should I simply chuck it and buy another?  This was my 3 wt. temp. rod George. Where is my Bastard?  No small stream fishing this weekend and its 60 here today! Wayne to fish is human….to release divine

Hi Wayne, The least expensive rod that I know of that has an unconditional warranty is the third break. Bill Kiene (capitalist pig) Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 1-800-4000FLY (toll free in US) www.kiene.com

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I think you’re right Bill.  I think I’ll chuck the Eagle Claw and look at either the St. Croix (I tried an Avid series at the show and liked it a lot) or the Diamondback 6′6" All American in 3 wt.  The St. Croix only comes in 7′ and I was thinking of something a little shorter in my original quest. Wayne To fish is human…to release divine. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Wayne, The least expensive rod that I know of that has an unconditional warranty is the the third break. Bill Kiene (capitalist pig) Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 1-800-4000FLY (toll free in US) www.kiene.com

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Question:

I purchased a pair of GoreTex waders a couple years ago from LL Bean. The price was much more reasonable than some, and the Bean service is excellent. I haven’t exposed them to a great degree of abuse, but the material appears quite durable. They are well made, double thickness at the knees. The suspenders are adequate, but could be sturdier. John Nesselrode Shawnee, KS

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I bought a pair of the Clearwater waders.  I fished in the early season (read cold) here in Minnesota and found that they erformed very well with fleece pants underneath.  They are truly awsome on a 80 degree day with 80% humidity.  However, after around 65 days on the water the seam tape on both feet started to come off.  Although they never leaked, I took them to my Orvis dealer as I was going to Montana and didn’t want them to start leaking.  I walked out with a new pair for free, now that’s service.   Anyway, the new pair has been fine so far.  I think I am harder on my gear than most.  I fish 3-4 times a week on small streams and am often crashing through brush in the dark with no flashlight. Long Live Hay Creek MikeH

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They’re great!!!

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I remember seeing a thread about Gore-Tex waders a while back. Would anyone be willing to put forth their $.02 again, for I’m interested in these waders. Thanks, — Don Pisinski C.C.S. Digital Equipment Corporation (When replying remove the "x" from the e-mail address) My opinions are not reflective of the opinions of my employer, my  cat, dog, or goldfish.

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Don, I finally broke down and got some goretex waders but not before an outfitter/shop did me a huge favor.  They let me try out the Clearwater and Bulletproof waders by Orvis and I was stoked.  Then they ruined me by letting me try out the Simms Guide models.  The Simms’s were the most comfortable and the quietest in my experience (fishing them each for a day in warm temps and cold water) but at $350.00, I balked.  My wife, in a rare display of toy-encouragement, thought that since I believed they were the ones to get and I didn’t come out of them all stinky and wet, said go ahead.  I can’t comment on their long term wear and tear, others will though, but I think it was a good decision for me even though I had to use money from the "Bamboo savings". Try them out if you can and I must say that the Clearwaters color is the most pleasant if only because EVERY outdoors-wear maker uses sage or light green/olives in all their clothes.(Fashion tip courtesy the beautiful Stephanie). Good Luck, Bob

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I remember seeing a thread about Gore-Tex waders a while back. Would anyone be willing to put forth their $.02 again, for I’m interested in these waders. Thanks, — Don Pisinski C.C.S. Digital Equipment Corporation (When replying remove the "x" from the e-mail address) My opinions are not reflective of the opinions of my employer, my  cat, dog, or goldfish.

Hi Don I’ve been guiding and fishing in Simms GoreTex waders for several years now and find they are great. The comfort of being able to fish in light weight breathable waders is one of the nicest things I’ve done for myself in years. The downside of any of these waders is minute pin holes that wild roses, nettles, thistles, etc can cause in the membrane of the waders. I just accept this will happen and patch the waders when needed. It’ real simple to do and a minor inconvienience when compared to the comfort. Take care & … — Tight Lines ….. Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Catalog,Tips & Tricks, Fishing Reports, & NeverSink at: http://www.btsflyfishing.com

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I remember seeing a thread about Gore-Tex waders a while back. Would anyone be willing to put forth their $.02 again, for I’m interested in these waders. Thanks,

Don, I recently bought a pair of Orvis 3mm neoprenes to fish the cold waters of Labrador.  When I got there, all the guides were wearing Orvis’ Gore-tex $300 + waders.  This was their 2nd or 3rd year with them, and they were wearing like stainless steel.  The guides were in them from 8 in the morning til 6 every day.  They said that the neoprenes they used to wear wore out too quickly.  They swore by the Gore-tex. Upon my return, I went to my Orvis dealer and jokingly told him that I had purchased the wrong waders — I should have bought the Gore-tex.  Long story short — he took back the 3mm neoprenes and I paid the difference (<$100) for the Gore-tex.  Now, *that’s* what I call a guarantee!!  BTW, the Gore-tex are famulous in cold water or warm air. Dave L.

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Question:

Flyfishing has without question introduced me to some of my best friends.  People whom, without the glue of our gentle sport, would most likely never have gotten the opportunity to know one another.  I think this, more than most else, is what I am most grateful for as I think back on the countless seasons spent on lake, stream and river; the thousands of hours on the road chasing our fishes; the many many campfires that always seem to end up too large.         This quality of flyfishing, it’s universal appeal to those so inclined – to bring us to a point where sharing opinions on any topic becomes as easy and comfortable as discussing what fly to use, this I feel is my

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        I’d have to agree with you on what flyfishing can do for a soul, and I’ll throw in another: those other fishermen I have met and helped, or met and been helped by, never to be seen again. Sharing moments never to be shared again, but never to be forgotten. There are a lot of GOOD people out there and its nice to meet them in some of the finest places on earth.

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Question:

…cruising down a cool canyon-bottom, lots of trees and bushes…really hot out…glad I’m in the shade…  I keep riding.  I pass a large white rock on my left…AAAGGGHHH!!  That’s no rock!  It’s a 1/4-ton COW!!!  I surprised the cow and woke it up, and it scared the s#!+ outa me by transforming from a white boulder into a 1/4-ton walking hamburger!!! Bye Cow!  Gotta go!!! Tom Kenney http://www.bearcomp.com/bearcom/tom.html

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Surprise #1: The 700m descent through the woods is bulldozed! Seriously. (This is *not* the same bulldozed trail I wrote about in another post. ACK!) Surprise #2: Back on the singletrack… that old hairpin "turn & drop"… and right around the corner, into the drop, a 10" diametre tree at chest level. I reached out and grabbed the tree with both hands and sort of went under in limbo fashion. My bike flipped up and stayed attached to my feet (powerstraps). It was Really Hard to get untwisted. Surprise #3: Untwisted and back in the saddle… hey… what are those hikers doing walking through the underbrush? Around the corner, and NO BRIDGE! Where’d the damn bridge go? Sure it was old and falling apart, with big holes in it, but it still worked. (The hikers are looking for a way to cross.) (Not Such A) Surprise #4: The water is Real Cold. (No way I was turning back.)

SURPRISE #4:  Going down my favorite singletrack downhill at night.  Hey, what’s that big black thing doing in the middle of the trail.  Hey, thats a bear.  Let’s get outta here.  Shit, its coming after us. SURPRISE #5:  This is especially common for those who live in the Northeast during the fall.  Ever hear of the diamond tailed Micranthena.  It a spider with a real funny looking tail on it almost diamond shaped.  Well, i’m cruising down my favorite trail (again at night) and WHOA! A BOA! Not quite, but close.  You fly through a real big spider web and the spider is crawling up your face. SURPRISE #6:  Moths at night.  You are again flying down your favorite trail and OOOPPS!!! COOUUUGGGHHHH.  CHOKE.    Yep.  You just ate a meal high in protein and carbohydrates. SURPRISE #7:  Whats that reflector up ahead?  DAMN’ THATS NO REFLECTOR, THEM ARE WOLVES!  Move on out! SURPRISE #8:  Skunks.  Need i say more. SURPRISE #9:  Damn kids.  Why the hell did they have to put a fishing line snare across the trail. SURPRISE #10: Hunters.  "No, really.  I am not a deer." SURPRISE #11: Red Neck Hunters.  "No, really.  I am not a grouse." SURPRISE #12: Red Neck Rapists  "No, i may have long hair, but i’m no girl." SURPRISE #13: dAMN, i thought my battery lasted longer than this. sucks! dan

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Were you ever riding a favourite trail, one you know *really* well, and get a nice surprise? Like the other day, I crossed over a highway to hit a nice descent down to a river… Surprise #1: The 700m descent through the woods is bulldozed! Seriously. (This is *not* the same bulldozed trail I wrote about in another post. ACK!)

        I had this happen to me to, on a piece of trail on University property. It used to be a "lint" (that’s right, linet), covered trail, but now it is just rubbish, they bulldozed it, and then chopped th e trees.  I guess too many people were having fun there.

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Were you ever riding a favourite trail, one you know *really* well, and get a nice surprise? Like the other day, I crossed over a highway to hit a nice descent down to a river… Surprise #1: The 700m descent through the woods is bulldozed! Seriously. (This is *not* the same bulldozed trail I wrote about in another post. ACK!) Surprise #2: Back on the singletrack… that old hairpin "turn & drop"… and right around the corner, into the drop, a 10" diametre tree at chest level. I reached out and grabbed the tree with both hands and sort of went under in limbo fashion. My bike flipped up and stayed attached to my feet (powerstraps). It was Really Hard to get untwisted. Surprise #3: Untwisted and back in the saddle… hey… what are those hikers doing walking through the underbrush? Around the corner, and NO BRIDGE! Where’d the damn bridge go? Sure it was old and falling apart, with big holes in it, but it still worked. (The hikers are looking for a way to cross.) (Not Such A) Surprise #4: The water is Real Cold. (No way I was turning back.) DANIEL CLEMENTS (Barrie, Ontario CANADA)

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Question:

   I am going to build some baitcasting rods and a flyrod.  Could somebody tell me the best way to order Sage blanks?  Can they be ordered directly from Sage?  Also where can I get rod components (cork, reel seat, guides, etc…) by mail order catalog. Thanks in advance, Chad — |          307 SW 16th Ave #349 G-ville, Fl 32601             | |                Voice: (904)377-3807                         | |                  Fax: (904)375-0357                         |

Dale Clemens (a mail order house) sells blanks, components, and training material.  Don’t have there address or number here at work but I’m sure someone on the net must.  None of the houses I know of sell Sage Blanks but our local Fly Fishing Speciality Shop does.  They also have some Sage Blem Blanks (at least they did a couple of weeks back).  Give them a call and tell them I sent you.  Ask for Dave, if he is in, but any of the guys there are very competent.  They also have all the components you might need.   The Angler’s Covey Inc.   917 W. Colorado Ave   Colorado Springs, CO. 80905   1-800-753-4746 Good Luck, Bryan Remember:  Fishing is NOT a matter of life and death.               It is much more important than that!            Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day.               Teach a man to fish and you get rid of him on weekends. Bryan Call (719)590-5772  |All opinions expressed here are mine & mine alone. Hewlett-Packard Co.       |  But then, I’ve never let that stop me before.     P.O. BOX 2197             |    Many men go fishing all their lives without Colorado Springs, Co 80901|    knowing that it is not fish they are after.

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        I am going to build some baitcasting rods and a flyrod.  Could somebody tell me the best way to order Sage blanks?  Can they be ordered directly from Sage?  Also where can I get rod components (cork, reel seat, guides, etc…) by mail order catalog. Thanks in advance, Chad — |          307 SW 16th Ave #349 G-ville, Fl 32601             | |                Voice: (904)377-3807                         | |                  Fax: (904)375-0357                         |

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