Question:

In reference to a thread by this title a week or so back….went over to the local stream yesterday(Weds) afternoon. Decent hatch of Grannoms, size 14 or 16, and a later hatch of pale green caddis in a size 16 or 18.  Streambred trout took wets or surface emerger types for a couple of us who were fly fishing amongst a few bait fishers. Every small hole seemed to hold a brown. Fish landed ranged from 7 to 13 inches. The locals claim no big hatch of Quill Gordons(the local spring mayfly hatch) yet, which is odd, as they generally precede the little green caddis. These guys I spoke with live on the creek and are as trustworthy as anglers can be<g. On other PA streams, I would expect some Blue Quills, Hendricksons and sometimes Black Quills.  All over the state, bright yellow craneflies are out in droves, and sometimes, the fish key on them exclusively. Use a sulfur in a pinch, about a size 16 or smaller.  Better still is a parachute style, with large, sparse hackle.                                                              Tom L

Response:

Tom Littleton’s <Tulpehocken TR snipped On other PA streams, I would expect some Blue Quills, Hendricksons and sometimes Black Quills.  All over the state, bright yellow craneflies are out in droves, and sometimes, the fish key on them exclusively. Use a sulfur in a pinch, about a size 16 or smaller.  Better still is a parachute style, with large, sparse hackle.                                                              Tom L

Tom, I can confirm that the bright yellow craneflies are out in force in Central PA, yesterday and today. Fished the ‘newly’ public water (Espy Farm’s ~1.25 miles) on the Little Juniata River yesterday (Friday)… tan caddis and bright yellow craneflies between 9am-3pm.  The ‘Espy Farm" outfitter is charging $100 per person/day to fish, unguided, this small stretch ($295 guided).  It is NOW freely accessible if you enter the river either above/below their property and traverse upon the river bed during your travels in the Espy Farm area.   Spring Creek is in pretty good shape and fishing well – midges and bright yellow craneflies.  The Little Lehigh Creek’s regulars captured a Sulphur dun today (Saturday), an early hatch? take care Dave

Response:

Dave,   Thanks for the update……Will you be going to Penn’s/Lil J area around Memorial Day??                              Tom

Response:

Tom – Thanks.  On Thursday the locals on the Brodhead said the Hendricksons had been coming for a week and that the Quill Gordons had gone by.  No bugs flying in the rain that day. Glenn << In reference to a thread by this title a week or so back….went over to the local stream yesterday(Weds) afternoon. Decent hatch of Grannoms, size 14 or 16, and a later hatch of pale green caddis in a size 16 or 18.  Streambred trout took wets or surface emerger types for a couple of us who were fly fishing amongst a few bait fishers. Every small hole seemed to hold a brown. Fish landed ranged from 7 to 13 inches. The locals claim no big hatch of Quill Gordons(the local spring mayfly hatch) yet, which is odd, as they generallyprecede the little green caddis. These guys I spoke with live on the creek and are as trustworthy as anglers can be<g. On other PA streams, I would expect some Blue Quills, Hendricksons and sometimes Black Quills.  All over the state, bright yellow craneflies are out in droves, and sometimes, the fish key on them exclusively. Use a sulfur in a pinch, about a size 16 or smaller.  Better still is a parachute style, with large, sparse hackle.                                                              Tom L GKT

Response:

Dave,   Thanks for the update……Will you be going to Penn’s/Lil J area around Memorial Day??                              Tom

Tom, I am planning on fishing Penns the weekend after Memorial Day.  Its a Green Drake thing.  Sort of like a fly fisherman’s Woodstock thingey. take care Dave

Response:

Dave,   Thanks for the update……Will you be going to Penn’s/Lil J area around Memorial Day??                              Tom Tom, I am planning on fishing Penns the weekend after Memorial Day.  Its a Green Drake thing.  Sort of like a fly fisherman’s Woodstock thingey.

I’ve never had the chance to fish a heavy, large Mayfly hatch. I’ve read that the fish get pretty satiated after a couple days and are no longer feeding very heavilly on the Duns. Is this true? Willi

Response:

I’ve never had the chance to fish a heavy, large Mayfly hatch. I’ve read that the fish get pretty satiated after a couple days and are no longer feeding very heavilly on the Duns. Is this true?

My experience has been just the opposite, that is, the first few days of the hatch will see sparse feeding on the surface, but as the hatch progresses, the fish will rise to the duns more freely. Yesterday, I fished a massive Hendrickson hatch on the Farmington river….a hatch that was actually too good because of the overwhelming number of naturals. The trout rose steadily for two hours, but few fish were caught during that period, most being taken at the beginning and end when fewer bugs were on the water. I wound up landing nine trout from  11 to 16 inches, but the only fish I caught at the hieght of the hatch were a few salmon smolts. As a point of reference, the Hendricksons started hatching on April 15, and the fish are still avidly feeding on them. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

Response:

Willi writes: I’ve never had the chance to fish a heavy, large Mayfly hatch. I’ve read that the fish get pretty satiated after a couple days and are no longer feeding very heavilly on the Duns.

In my experience, the fish continue to take advantage of nutrients and thus, feed through a hatch to the end. They may tend to become wary of surface items due to angling pressure as a hatch goes on. Also, feeding on duns varies with air temps and humidity, with fish rising more readily to duns when they have difficulty getting off water surface. The drake hatch, as a specific example on Penn’s, tends to be great fishing on Duns and emergers for the first couple days in any area, with wary fish by the end(6th or 7th day) of the hatch. Many times, it proves easier to take fish during the Drake hatch with other surface items, like sulfurs, caddis and spinners of Grey Foxes and March Browns.                               Tom

Response:

Question:

How are the water levels? Is the water still fast and muddy from the rain last weekend?…… Any luck catching? I’m prob. going to fish the Ramapo later tonight ….  any fly suggestions or should i just start out nymphing….Thanks Mitch

Response:

Mitch I’ve been fishing Dutchess (next county up) and its gotten much better. Water is still very high, but down from last weekend by a noticable amount. The last few warm days has brought the water temp up to 42 degs (as of this morning’s pre-work session).  Clarity is improving, but still fairly "brown water" conditions.  There has been a good midge hatch every evening since Sunday’s rain ended.  Last night saw the first aggressive rises on my home water since the rain/snow melt weeks. They were slurping and slashing at those midges! In general, activity has been much better mid-day to nightfall after the sun has been on the water for most of the day. Hope that helps. TL, John

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How are the water levels? Is the water still fast and muddy from the rain last weekend?…… Any luck catching? I’m prob. going to fish the Ramapo later tonight ….  any fly suggestions or should i just start out nymphing….Thanks Mitch

Response:

Thanks John for the info….I’m gong opening day in NJ Sat. at the Flatbrookafter lunch until dark…I think the water levels out western NJ should be pretty good and today’s weather is just fine.Hope the weekend is this warm to spur some hatches….Thanks again

Response:

Question:

rw, You are beginning to sound like Forty and his objection to squaw,

You really think so? Never mind, then. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Which is one reason why I do it. TL MC — "Where fishing is concerned, most anglers are basically manic excessives" http://www.mikeconnor.de – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …to paraphrase Robert Lynd (who was talking about playing golf):  It’s almost impossible to remember how tragic a place the world is when one is flyfishing.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Have you seen the sponsored landmine site – sponsorship helps to repair the damage done by these amoral weapons – yeah yeah I know it is the user not the weapon but you get my drift. "Land mines." I feel I must call attention to a serious lack of sensitivity in the flyfishing community. I am of course referring to the use of the term "Chernobyl", as in Chernobyl Ant, Chernobyl Hopper, and several other so-called fly patterns of similar type. Don’t you people realize that over 70,000 Ukranians alone were killed or disabled by the tragedy of the Chernobyl nuclear accident, and that their descendants will continue to suffer the effects, including grotesque mutations and birth defects, for years to come? It is insensitive and irresponsible in the extreme to make light of that deplorable and tragic accident just to make a catchy name for something as frivolous as a fishing fly.

_____  gee r.w.?  You had to post this just when I was about to release the New 2001 products list: 1)  Chernobyl "First Strike" Glow Indicators 2)  Green Chernobyl Fish-Fuzz 3)  Chernobyl (half-life) Sun Tan Cream 4)  The Dirty Nuclear Green Machine Fly 5)  Heavy Hydrogen Sinking Chernobyl Tippets I have more, but out of respect to your point of view, I cannot release these products.

Response:

_____  gee r.w.?  You had to post this just when I was about to release the New 2001 products list: 1)  Chernobyl "First Strike" Glow Indicators

Great product name. George. You may be crazy, but you aren’t stupid. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

RW, I don’t think most of these guys would think it was funny if THEY were on the VA Agent Orange and/or Gulf War Syndrome registry. El Paso Bob – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Have you seen the sponsored landmine site – sponsorship helps to repair the damage done by these amoral weapons – yeah yeah I know it is the user not the weapon but you get my drift. "Land mines." I feel I must call attention to a serious lack of sensitivity in the flyfishing community. I am of course referring to the use of the term "Chernobyl", as in Chernobyl Ant, Chernobyl Hopper, and several other so-called fly patterns of similar type. Don’t you people realize that over 70,000 Ukranians alone were killed or disabled by the tragedy of the Chernobyl nuclear accident, and that their descendants will continue to suffer the effects, including grotesque mutations and birth defects, for years to come? It is insensitive and irresponsible in the extreme to make light of that deplorable and tragic accident just to make a catchy name for something as frivolous as a fishing fly. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

RW, I don’t think most of these guys would think it was funny if THEY were on the VA Agent Orange and/or Gulf War Syndrome registry.

This has nothing to do with anything, but RWJ’s post reminded me of the story: I’ve known a lot of stupid people in my life, but one guy stands out in my memory.   He was a coworker many years ago who, through little fault of his own, had apparently no concept of the world most of us consider normal. From our conversations over the years, I concluded that he’d been raised in a home situation lacking in intellectual stimulation, financial stability, and positive encouragement.   On top of that, he was of small stature, and seemed to feel a constant need to prove that he was both tough and smart. He was, in fact, insecure and not very bright.   But that’s only background. He took up body building, and I believe he seriously thought about pursuing a career as a "professional wrestler".   He began weight lifting, and in his desire to acquire the bodybuilder look, he decided that he needed a tan; and he answered one of those back-of-the-magazine ads for a product that allows you to "tan without the sun".   I don’t know what was in the pills he received, but he took them as directed (knowing him though, probably at twice the dosage).   He was encouraged that his skin did begin to darken, and he continued his regimen.   Ultimately, he turned orange.   Not brightly, of course, but as the color effect intensified over time, there wasn’t a hint of brown to be seen.   He was undoubtedly orange.   He, of course, saw this an a precursor to "tan" and kept taking the pills, until he was unmistakably orange right down to his fingernails. In the end, he only earned the nickname "Agent Orange" that stayed with him for the rest of the time we knew him.   What a character.

Response:

rw, You are beginning to sound like Forty and his objection to squaw, "rw" wrote – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I feel I must call attention to a serious lack of sensitivity in the flyfishing community. I am of course referring to the use of the term "Chernobyl", as in Chernobyl Ant, Chernobyl Hopper, and several other so-called fly patterns of similar type. Don’t you people realize that over 70,000 Ukranians alone were killed or disabled by the tragedy of the Chernobyl nuclear accident, and that their descendants will continue to suffer the effects, including grotesque mutations and birth defects, for years to come? It is insensitive and irresponsible in the extreme to make light of that deplorable and tragic accident just to make a catchy name for something as frivolous as a fishing fly.

Response:

…to paraphrase Robert Lynd (who was talking about playing golf):  It’s almost impossible to remember how tragic a place the world is when one is flyfishing. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Land mines." — that one is funny until you think about it. Brought to mind the old M.A.S.H. episode in which the Korean family had their child out front when plowing the fields to make sure the family ox wasn’t killed by a land mine.. Joe F. Ya, it’s a realy sad commentary on extreme rural poverty – a child is more expendable than the ox.  Farmers, their children and their animals are still at risk from landmines in much of SE Asia and Africa.  Wonderful legacy of the arms merchants. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Before the Gulf War Barbara Walters did a story on gender roles in Kuwait. She noted that women customarily walked about 10 feet behind their husbands. She returned to Kuwait recently and observed that the men now walked several yards behind their wives. Ms. Walters approached one of the women for an explanation. "This is marvelous," she said, "what enabled women to achieve such respect?"  The Kuwaiti woman replied, "Land mines." — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Before the Gulf War Barbara Walters did a story on gender roles in Kuwait. She noted that women customarily walked about 10 feet behind their husbands. She returned to Kuwait recently and observed that the men now walked several yards behind their wives. Ms. Walters approached one of the women for an explanation. "This is marvelous," she said, "what enabled women to achieve such respect?"  The Kuwaiti woman replied, "Land mines." —

that one is funny until you think about it. Peter

Response:

"Land mines." — that one is funny until you think about it.

Brought to mind the old M.A.S.H. episode in which the Korean family had their child out front when plowing the fields to make sure the family ox wasn’t killed by a land mine.. Joe F.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Land mines." — that one is funny until you think about it. Brought to mind the old M.A.S.H. episode in which the Korean family had their child out front when plowing the fields to make sure the family ox wasn’t killed by a land mine.. Joe F.

Ya, it’s a realy sad commentary on extreme rural poverty – a child is more expendable than the ox.  Farmers, their children and their animals are still at risk from landmines in much of SE Asia and Africa.  Wonderful legacy of the arms merchants. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

I shoulda used this tactic with my ex-wife. The insurance money would have bought *several* nice bamboo rods. <g

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Before the Gulf War Barbara Walters did a story on gender roles in Kuwait. She noted that women customarily walked about 10 feet behind their husbands. She returned to Kuwait recently and observed that the men now walked several yards behind their wives. Ms. Walters approached one of the women for an explanation. "This is marvelous," she said, "what enabled women to achieve such respect?"  The Kuwaiti woman replied, "Land mines." — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Have you seen the sponsored landmine site – sponsorship helps to repair the damage done by these amoral weapons – yeah yeah I know it is the user not the weapon but you get my drift. "Land mines."

– Charles Reaves

Response:

Have you seen the sponsored landmine site – sponsorship helps to repair the damage done by these amoral weapons – yeah yeah I know it is the user not the weapon but you get my drift. "Land mines." — Charles Reaves

I’ve seen a few sites that cover landmines (I think I have them bookmarked somewhere) plus prgrams on Canadian and British demining teams at work in places like Bosnia.   Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Have you seen the sponsored landmine site – sponsorship helps to repair the damage done by these amoral weapons – yeah yeah I know it is the user not the weapon but you get my drift. "Land mines."

I feel I must call attention to a serious lack of sensitivity in the flyfishing community. I am of course referring to the use of the term "Chernobyl", as in Chernobyl Ant, Chernobyl Hopper, and several other so-called fly patterns of similar type. Don’t you people realize that over 70,000 Ukranians alone were killed or disabled by the tragedy of the Chernobyl nuclear accident, and that their descendants will continue to suffer the effects, including grotesque mutations and birth defects, for years to come? It is insensitive and irresponsible in the extreme to make light of that deplorable and tragic accident just to make a catchy name for something as frivolous as a fishing fly. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Question:

In light of the recent tension, caused by so-called "ignorance," I began thinking about words and symbols that either have more than one meaning or are bastardized in one way or another. http://www.ccnet.com/~suntzu75/news_archives/pc970001.htm — Op

Response:

In light of the recent tension, caused by so-called "ignorance," I began thinking about words and symbols that either have more than one meaning or are bastardized in one way or another. http://www.ccnet.com/~suntzu75/news_archives/pc970001.htm — Op

______  My advice for any Jewish fly fisherman is to that a Swastika Acres resident fly fishing and make friends.  Do any of the condo’s there look like bunkers? — — George Gehrke http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html   affordable bamboo flyrods & blanks

Response:

______  My advice for any Jewish fly fisherman is to that a Swastika Acres resident fly fishing and make friends.  Do any of the condo’s there look like bunkers? —

        george, you need to clear out.  your posts are beginning to make a soup sandwich look like the rock of gibralter. wayno

Response:

______  My advice for any Jewish fly fisherman is to take a Swastika Acres resident fly fishing and make friends.  Do any of the condo’s there look like bunkers? —         george, you need to clear out.  your posts are beginning to make a soup sandwich look like the rock of gibralter. wayno

Clearing the cache right now Wayne! — — George Gehrke http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html   affordable bamboo flyrods & blanks

Response:

Question:

Not to knock them, but they have a lower apeal after so many of them.

A real fish for once!   One day you too, will come to love those "Unreal Fish"  What a great morning to be alive!  Bruce Congratulations jim

Response:

<snip a great story The second cast found the blues scattering violently as a dork figure surged from under the moss toward the cricket.

This is just begging for a joke. Nice story Qwezy.

Response:

Finally got the bugger landed….my very first smallmouth bass (I think!) on a fly.  

It had to be a Largemouth. Well done. I’m far from a bass expert, but if I were you I’d try some poppers and other surface lures that are large enough that the bluegill can’t take them. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

as a dork figure surged from under the moss toward the cricket. This is just begging for a joke.

Well, hell…..that explains all the trouble with my casting today!  If I would Bruce

Response:

Nice story QwezyR.  Thanks for providing the imagery that my day lacked and my mind desperately needed. Had to remember the posts about pulling back too hard on the line and/or pole…only an inch needed to anchor the hook

  One suggestion though, try using a fly rod instead of a pole when fly fishing.  You can cast a lot better with a fly rod than a pole.  HTH? Warren X#-[

Trout Dwellers Unite! Western Conclave Guru For info: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/sp_ROFF_people/wclave/wclave.html

Response:

Finally got the bugger landed….my very first smallmouth bass (I think!) on a fly.  

Congrats— But it was a largemouth…….As far as I know there are no smallmouths in the Orlando area, and unless there are some in the panhandle I don’t know about, none in Florida! Lloyd Heilbrunn Palm Beach Gardens, FL.

Response:

I’ve been learning this fly fishing craft for about a year now…with little chance to catch anything other than bluegill.  Not to knock them, but they have a lower apeal after so many of them.  That all changed today for me.  Picture, A stereotypical lazy, dark, Oak/Spanish moss covered central Florida stream…black water, moss on the banks, other aquatic vegitation here and there, black, still waters.  My newfound favorite hole for the time being. Been stalking whatever may be in there for a couple weks now.  Even learned the value of not stepping on the resident gator’s favorite hole.  On my K-mart trip this week for diapers, I got the urge to pick up some new flies.  A nice box of terrestrials looked enticing. Armed with my newfound cricket, I approached a shallow cove in the stream, dark waters broken slightly by shafts of light through the oaks.  The first cast across the stream to the opposite bank of moss with the cricket drew some attention of the bluegills….no bite.  The second cast found the blues scattering violently as a dork figure surged from under the moss toward the cricket.  This is it, I thought….the moment for which I’ve been lurking in this news group…all the lessons and thoughts of others culminating in this one dark fugure heading to my fly.  BAM!!!!!!  Much harder strike than any bluegill I ever had on the line!  Had to remember the posts about pulling back too hard on the line and/or pole…only an inch needed to anchor the hook.  And off on a fun ride we went!  THIS is what it’s all about, I thought for the couple minutes I played the fish, hoping I don’t lose my first real one. Finally got the bugger landed….my very first smallmouth bass (I think!) on a fly.  About 10-12 inches long (I have no idea how much that size would weigh) God, how exhilerating.  A real fish for once!  I remembered my vow to keep and grill the first real fish I ever caught on that rod…and thought again, "No…I’ll meet you again, little fishy!  Maybe next time, but thanks for the fun today!" What a great morning to be alive! Bruce

Response:

Question:

I understand that there can be a significant difference in terms of how fast a gps can get a bearing between modals.  I am looking for a gps for fly fishing saltwater.  I will want to be able to mark channels, fishing spots, etc.  Can anyone with experience advise me on what to look for? JK

Response:

I understand that there can be a significant difference in terms of how fast a gps can get a bearing between modals.  I am looking for a gps for fly fishing saltwater.  I will want to be able to mark channels, fishing spots, etc.  Can anyone with experience advise me on what to look for?

Soitenly! Look for a Garmin GPSIII+ /daytripper

Response:

The Garmin GPSIII+ typically acquires satellites and computes it’s initial position in less than a minute.  The downloadable maps include lots of coastal data, markers, buoys, etc.  I use one inland on streams, rivers and lakes.  email me directly if you want more info.  Also you might want to look at the usegroup : sci.geo.satellite-nav.  Lots of experienced folks there as well. Tom — Tom Brown The Signal Group Wake Forest, NC HEATHEN, n. A benighted creature who has the folly to worship something that he can see and feel.                – Ambrose Bierce: The Devil’s Dictionary – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I understand that there can be a significant difference in terms of how fast a gps can get a bearing between modals.  I am looking for a gps for fly fishing saltwater.  I will want to be able to mark channels, fishing spots, etc.  Can anyone with experience advise me on what to look for? JK

Response:

I can put off buying the unit until spring although it would be convenient to have it sooner.  Do you see anything changing in terms of new products or enhancements that would warrant waiting? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Garmin GPSIII+ typically acquires satellites and computes it’s initial position in less than a minute.  The downloadable maps include lots of coastal data, markers, buoys, etc.  I use one inland on streams, rivers and lakes.  email me directly if you want more info.  Also you might want to look at the usegroup : sci.geo.satellite-nav.  Lots of experienced folks there as well. Tom — Tom Brown The Signal Group Wake Forest, NC HEATHEN, n. A benighted creature who has the folly to worship something that he can see and feel.               — Ambrose Bierce: The Devil’s Dictionary I understand that there can be a significant difference in terms of how fast a gps can get a bearing between modals.  I am looking for a gps for fly fishing saltwater.  I will want to be able to mark channels, fishing spots, etc.  Can anyone with experience advise me on what to look for? JK

Response:

Hard to say.  My personal expectation is that there will be a version available with more internal flash memory, sometime in the spring.  The GPSIII+ has 1.44 megs in additional to the (good) base map.  Take a look at  www.joe.mehaffey.com .  That’s sort of a "clearing house" for current GPS info. And, start looking at/participating in/ the newsgroup that I mentioned.  Since this is not a germane subject for most flyfishers, email me directly for follow-on info. Tom — Tom Brown The Signal Group Wake Forest, NC HEATHEN, n. A benighted creature who has the folly to worship something that he can see and feel.                – Ambrose Bierce: The Devil’s Dictionary – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I can put off buying the unit until spring although it would be convenient to have it sooner.  Do you see anything changing in terms of new products or enhancements that would warrant waiting? The Garmin GPSIII+ typically acquires satellites and computes it’s initial position in less than a minute.  The downloadable maps include lots of coastal data, markers, buoys, etc.  I use one inland on streams, rivers and lakes.  email me directly if you want more info.  Also you might want to look at the usegroup : sci.geo.satellite-nav.  Lots of experienced folks there as well. Tom I understand that there can be a significant difference in terms of how fast a gps can get a bearing between modals.  I am looking for a gps for fly fishing saltwater.  I will want to be able to mark channels, fishing spots, etc.  Can anyone with experience advise me on what to look for? JK

Response:

Question:

return more hits on "scotch" than on "steelhead".   (I might actually try that.)

Joe please do not ever see how many hits you get about bluegill. Most respectfuly requested. Big Dale

Response:

Dejanews is a service which stores and indexes most if not all all usenet posts. Incredible, come to think of it. If you ever goof up in here, it won’t be forgotten.. Altavista has a Usenet search enigine too, I haven’t really compared it with the Deja service yet. Herman, having one or two unpleasant memories in the archives.. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Where is deja.news and how do you access it? I’d be willing to bet that a deja news search of ROFF will return more hits on "scotch" than on "steelhead".   (I might actually try that.) I was wrong.   (There’s something you won’t hear often here, Brian.) "Steelhead" appeared in 1,095 posts in the last 12 months; while I had to allow "malt" as well as "scotch" to bring that total up to a creditable, if distant, 495.   (It’s luchtime and I had a few minutes, okay?) Joe F.

– Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

Hello all, I am new to this group.  I just found it the other day, and I have been very impressed by the courtesy and information found here (unlike a lot of Usenet). I have recently moved to Vancouver WA (just across the Columbia from Portland) from Wisconsin to follow my wife (good idea). Over the past several years, my father-in-law has made sure that I got out here to fish the Deschuttes with him.  Until I walked in that water, I had not know true trout.  We would put in at Trout Creek and take out 4 days later at Harpham Flats.  Normally we went during the salmon fly hatch (it is quite a thing having a "Redsides" take such a big bug). Needless to say, now that we have moved here, we have done a lot more fishing and my wife has wished a pox on the two of us for how much we are spending! To the point – On Sept. 24th, I am returning the favor and taking her father on the Deschuttes for a 4 day Steelhead trip.  I have never fished for them before, and I am very excited.  Any advice you all have would be greatly appreciated.  I already made the mistake (sort of – I got some great gear) of going to Kaufman’s and saying "I am going Steelhead fishing…what do I need?"  $1200 later I was out the door and ready for action (since I don’t drink I have to spend the money somewhere). Anyway, now that I have spewed all over this message, I would like to thank in advance for your help, and advice. Brian Blazer http://www.blazertechnologies.com

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I am new to this group.  I just found it the other day, and I have been very impressed by the courtesy and information found here  <snip

Damn, are we doing that again? Welcome aboard, although we’re going to have to work on that not drinking thing.   I’d be willing to bet that a deja news search of ROFF will return more hits on "scotch" than on "steelhead".   (I might actually try that.) Seriously though, welcome.   Thicken your skin and jump in.   It ain’t always that cordial; but it’s always fun. Joe F.

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Where is deja.news and how do you access it?

Deja News is at www.deja.com; but it’s easier to get specific answers if you use their "power search" at  www.deja.com/home_ps.shtml. Joe F.

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Why do you persist in omitting "meniscus"?   Besides, I said a few minutes, not a few days.  :-)

meniscus?  What means?

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Why do you persist in omitting "meniscus"?   Besides, I said a few minutes, not a few days.  :-) meniscus?  What means?

You know, that interface between the beer and the foam.   Recently mentioned in a remarkable 110 posts. Joe F.

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meniscus?  What means? You know, that interface between the beer and the foam.   Recently mentioned in a remarkable 110 posts.

Mmmmmmm, BEER!  Now you’re speaking my language.  110 posts, really?  Wow, makes me feel like an influential guy.  Anybody care to define fly?

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Mmmmmmm, BEER!  Now you’re speaking my language.  110 posts, really?  Wow, makes me feel like an influential guy.  Anybody care to define fly?

Sure.   It’s what men think with.  :-) Joe F.

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To the point – On Sept. 24th, I am returning the favor and taking her father on the Deschuttes for a 4 day Steelhead trip.  I have never fished for them before, and I am very excited.  Any advice you all have would be greatly appreciated. Anyway, now that I have spewed all over this message, I would like to thank in advance for your help, and advice. Brian Blazer http://www.blazertechnologies.com

Brian, The Deschutes is spelled like what I wrote.   It sounds like the folks at Kaffmans got you all set up.   Your guide will do the rest with the type of fly’s that you should use.   If I only had one fly and was going to the Deschutes I would have a Frieght Train tied on to the leader.   Be sure to use a wading staff for you and your dad, it will save your butt from falling in so many times.  But when you do fall in keep your feet pointing down river, that will save your life. Sharp Hooks, Pat Holdzit Fishing Products Inc. http://www.holdzit.com Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …..(It’s luchtime and I had a few minutes, okay?) If you’ve got a few more minutes Joe please try: bastard loon PETA dam C&R C&K If you STILL have time on your hands I’ll try to come up with a more comprehensive list!

Why do you persist in omitting "meniscus"?   Besides, I said a few minutes, not a few days.  :-) Joe F.

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I’d be willing to bet that a deja news search of ROFF will return more hits on "scotch" than on "steelhead".   (I might actually try that.)

I was wrong.   (There’s something you won’t hear often here, Brian.) "Steelhead" appeared in 1,095 posts in the last 12 months; while I had to allow "malt" as well as "scotch" to bring that total up to a creditable, if distant, 495.   (It’s luchtime and I had a few minutes, okay?) Joe F.

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I’d be willing to bet that a deja news search of ROFF will return more hits on "scotch" than on "steelhead".   (I might actually try that.) I was wrong.   (There’s something you won’t hear often here, Brian.) "Steelhead" appeared in 1,095 posts in the last 12 months; while I had to allow "malt" as well as "scotch" to bring that total up to a creditable, if distant, 495.   (It’s luchtime and I had a few minutes, okay?) Joe F.

Thanks for the welcome… Maybe there are more posts about steelhead because of the few posts about scotch?  Or maybe the quantity of steelhead posts are because of the ammount of scotch? Brian http://www.blazertechnologies.com

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…..(It’s luchtime and I had a few minutes, okay?)

If you’ve got a few more minutes Joe please try: bastard loon PETA dam C&R C&K If you STILL have time on your hands I’ll try to come up with a more comprehensive list!

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Where is deja.news and how do you access it? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’d be willing to bet that a deja news search of ROFF will return more hits on "scotch" than on "steelhead".   (I might actually try that.) I was wrong.   (There’s something you won’t hear often here, Brian.) "Steelhead" appeared in 1,095 posts in the last 12 months; while I had to allow "malt" as well as "scotch" to bring that total up to a creditable, if distant, 495.   (It’s luchtime and I had a few minutes, okay?) Joe F.

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Question:

I have taken up fly fishing in the past year and have purchased a couple of Loomis rods. One is a GL3 #8 and one a GL4 #5. I am now considering a purchase of a used IMX 10#. The IMX was a dicontinued by the time I came along. Was this a high end rod for Loomis? What would it be compared to that is in production today? How will the action compare to my GL3 8#? I appreciate any input. Thanks. Larry

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At one time IMX were the high end of Loomis’ line. They were the precursor of the GL4. I believe the material is still the same, 3rd. generation graphite. I don’t think you’d go wrong by buying an IMX. Tom. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have taken up fly fishing in the past year and have purchased a couple of Loomis rods. One is a GL3 #8 and one a GL4 #5. I am now considering a purchase of a used IMX 10#. The IMX was a dicontinued by the time I came along. Was this a high end rod for Loomis? What would it be compared to that is in production today? How will the action compare to my GL3 8#? I appreciate any input. Thanks. Larry

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At one time IMX were the high end of Loomis’ line. They were the precursor of the GL4. I believe the material is still the same, 3rd. generation graphite. I don’t think you’d go wrong by buying an IMX.

I agree.  In fact, I think the IMX graphite was the best combination of strength and speed that Loomis had. Mark Faulkner

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Larry asked Was this a high end rod for Loomis? What would it be compared to that is in production today? How will the action compare to my GL3 8#? I appreciate any input.

Larry I don’t know what you plan to use the IMX 10 weight for, but I have one in a 8 1/2 foot model. It is a very specialized rod. I think it is stiffer than a GLX and I know that it is much stiffer than my GL3. I would say that it is more similar to a Sage RPLX than anything else I have ever used. It would be great for Northern Pike or casting around the coast in a severe wind. It is also perfect for casting hugh  bass flies at Lake Fork, but as you can guess it will test the durability of your casting arm. It realy wears me out quicker than any other rod I have ever owned. Big Dale

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Larry: I forgot something in my earlier post. The selection of fly lines is more limited in the 10 weight size than some others.The one I prefer is made by Cortland in an bright red called a Pike/Muskie taper.I hate the color, but love the way it casts and it excells for big flies. Big Dale

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Larry asked Was this a high end rod for Loomis? What would it be compared to that is in production today? How will the action compare to my GL3 8#? I appreciate any input. Larry I don’t know what you plan to use the IMX 10 weight for, but I have one in a 8 1/2 foot model. It is a very specialized rod. I think it is stiffer than a GLX and I know that it is much stiffer than my GL3. I would say that it is more similar to a Sage RPLX than anything else I have ever used. It would be great for Northern Pike or casting around the coast in a severe wind. It is also perfect for casting hugh  bass flies at Lake Fork, but as you can guess it will test the durability of your casting arm. It realy wears me out quicker than any other rod I have ever owned.

In the larger rod sizes at least, Loomis GLX is faster than IMX, and IMX is similar to GL4. GL3 is the slow rod of this bunch. I fished a 9.5′ 9W IMX over stripers for many years. Quite fast – you definitely have to make the rod flex to get the most out of it, but if you do, it’s a cannon. /daytripper

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Question:

FFGuy wrote 7) 3 liters of water, platypus with bite valve

Aside from being a furry little guy with a duck bill, what’s a platypus? —                                                       -dnc-

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FFGuy wrote 7) 3 liters of water, platypus with bite valve Aside from being a furry little guy with a duck bill, what’s a platypus?

It’s a water bladder.  Basically an extremely tough plastic bag with a tube and a valve that you bite down on to drink the water.  As you can’t tell from my horrible description, they are a pretty cool invention.  They are nearly indestructable, insulated, and can carry a relatively large amount of water conveniently.  I use one (actually a generic equivalent) while fishing, hiking, biking, boarding, etc. Later,      - Ken — "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the  initiative in creating the Internet."  - Al Gore

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Here is my top ten Excluding Rod,Reel and Line 1    Flask of Coffee 2    Cheese Sandwiches 3    Cigars 4    Lighter 5    Bow Net 6    Sportsclip Tool 7    Solarshield Glasses 8    Gink 9    Floating Fly Box (inc flies) 10  Waders

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I got into fly fishing during the last year.  soon after my soon to be father-in-law became interested also.  naturally we go fishing together. I bring every possible fishing gadget I can carry, He on the other hand is a brings a rod.  I know I’m carrying 10 more pounds to the stream than he is. He takes every opportunity to point this out.  This spring I plan to cut down on the number of tools I carry to the water. What are the 10 most important items you all would take to the water for a day a fly fishing?

Get an average sized fanny pack or a vest with only a few pockets, and then only take what you can fit in it.  Limited carry capacity is great aid to self-discipline.  Besides, you’ll look real neat and tidy to the daddy-in-law. Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.cgocable.net/~pcharles/index.html

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I’ll assume you’re talking about fly fishing in a river/stream and about EQUIPMENT, not supplies. So here’s my list in order of importance: 1)Rod/Reel, 2)Vest, 3)Glasses or flip-focals(for seeing), 4)Waders, 5)Polarized sun glasses, 6)Hat. 7)Fanny Pack. Any other item I consider a supply and should fit into #2 or #7 above.

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Just thought of a take-off on the saying Lee Wulff coined regarding C & R. "Limit what you carry. Don’t carry your limit!" What do you think?

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8.  Drying crystals (dessicant).

This has to be the least entrant for the top ten. — something bogus to avoid spam)

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absorbent paper towels that are FREE in the service station work swell.  Just squeeze the wet and hopefully chewed up and slimy fly with a piece of one and dress with Aequel or Daves bug Float or Blue Ribbon Super Dry Fly Float or SA dry fly floatant or Loon easy Dry or Hydrostop or Albolene and get back to fishing.

man, you’re slippin. you forgot GINK. you know, why go on the river with those lesser quality floatants when you can have the best. thats GINK, the best damn floatant your hard-earned money can buy. here, i’ll spell it out for you, G-I-N-K. i’ll share a little known roff secret with ya pal. the inventor of GINK is a once-in-a-blue-moon poster here at roff. if you ask him nicely, i’d bet my last dollar he would send you a complimentary bottle of GINK. waldo the omnipotent flytier and man about stream

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i’d bet my last dollar he would send you a complimentary bottle …

I’ll take THAT bet. Think he’d send me one too ? The absolute best thing to use for drying a wet dry fly is an Amadou. Among the many semi-liquids, Dave’s Bug Float is the best. — Ken Fortenberry

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8.  Drying crystals (dessicant). This has to be the least entrant for the top ten.

Oops, that makes no sense. I meant to write the "least likely entrant." — something bogus to avoid spam)

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Ten most important beside the obvious rod/reel/waders with belt: 1. Polarized shades. 2.  Bill hat with flip down magnifiers. 3.  Fly box with "hatches" in dries and nymphs. 4.  Extra leader and 3 sizes of tippet depending on what kind of fishing. 5.  Nippers. 6.  Rain gear, preferably Goretex. 7.  Wading staff.  (Goes along with the flip down mags – I’m old) and water bottle. 8.  Drying crystals (dessicant). 9.  Hemostats. 10.  Landing net. There has to be room also for a can of V-eye-eeeeena Sausages. Of course my list is like going through the express line at the super market — 10 items or less.  And the woman behind me swears under her breath because I have 15.  <G Dave LaCourse

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License.  Nothing worse than haveing to try some place to buy a license earl in the am for some dufuss that forgot to get one the night before. Drying crystals?  Those neat blue and highly absorbent paper towels that are FREE in the service station work swell.  Just squeeze the wet and hopefully chewed up and slimy fly with a piece of one and dress with Aequel or Daves bug Float or Blue Ribbon Super Dry Fly Float or SA dry fly floatant or Loon easy Dry or Hydrostop or Albolene and get back to fishing. Ten most important beside the obvious rod/reel/waders with belt:

snip 8.  Drying crystals (dessicant).

snip Dave LaCourse

– Mike in PDX "When the trout are lost, smash the state."                          Tom McGuane

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i’d bet my last dollar he would send you a complimentary bottle … I’ll take THAT bet. Think he’d send me one too ?

        there’s another bet you’d lose, forty.  george is among the most generous men i’ve ever met.  it’s just that he will have a helluva time locating you, under all those damn rocks. wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -The absolute best thing to use for drying a wet dry fly is an Amadou. Among the many semi-liquids, Dave’s Bug Float is the best. — Ken Fortenberry

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  george is among the most generous men i’ve ever met.  it’s just that he will have a helluva time locating you, under all those damn rocks.

A most generous spammer is still a spammer. Your thing with the rocks is tiresome. Surely a wisecracking wiseacre of your prodigious abilities can do better than to repeat yourself to the point of self parody. — Ken Fortenberry

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1. rod, reel & line (duh..) 2. flybox. 1 wheatley(model) should do if you know the water 3. sunglasses 4. pliers 5. some float & sink stuff 6. leaders & extra tippet material 7. hat 8. net 9. raincoat 10. basic first aid And now it’s time to take my own advice.. Cheers, Herman I got into fly fishing during the last year.  soon after my soon to be father-in-law became interested also.  naturally we go fishing together. I bring every possible fishing gadget I can carry, He on the other hand is a brings a rod.  I know I’m carrying 10 more pounds to the stream than he is. He takes every opportunity to point this out.  This spring I plan to cut down on the number of tools I carry to the water. What are the 10 most important items you all would take to the water for a day a fly fishing?

– Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

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Be sure to have a couple of the Holdzit Tool Saver holsters and a gink holder dangling from your vest.  The Tool Saver will keep your hook file and forcepts rust free and your gink handy.  Check the Holdzit Fishing Products site out at http://www.holdzit.com Sharp Hooks, Pat I got into fly fishing during the last year.  soon after my soon to be father-in-law became interested also.  naturally we go fishing together. I bring every possible fishing gadget I can carry, He on the other hand is a brings a rod.  I know I’m carrying 10 more pounds to the stream than he is. He takes every opportunity to point this out.  This spring I plan to cut down on the number of tools I carry to the water. What are the 10 most important items you all would take to the water for a day a fly fishing?

Response:

I am a beliver in keeping things simple and light. Here is what I pack: 1.  One fly box with drys and nymphs combined.  If I loose that many flys then I should proceed back to camp and have a beer to forget about the crappy day fishing. 2.  Leader/tippet material. 3.  Fishing hat-  it’s tradition. 4.  First aid kit/ thermal blanket 5.  Rod/reel 6.  Snack for emergency situations. 7.  clippers.

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What are the 10 most important items you all would take to the water for a day a fly fishing?

1) Camera 2) A book 3) Some Flies 4) Rod -n- reel 5) Tippet -n- leader 6) Nailclippers 7) Water Munchies 9) T.P. 10) Polarized sunglasses!!! Later,      - Ken — "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the  initiative in creating the Internet."  - Al Gore

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1. Consolidated fly box 2. polarized sunglasses 3. tippet material 4. various sized split shot 5. rod 6. reel 7. fly floatant 10. waders if you really want to travel light, these are all you need (I didn’t include "vest", because everything fits inside it.).  items 9, and 10 might be: 9. camera 10. strike indicators Pete C

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I got into fly fishing during the last year.  soon after my soon to be father-in-law became interested also.  naturally we go fishing together. I bring every possible fishing gadget I can carry, He on the other hand is a brings a rod.  I know I’m carrying 10 more pounds to the stream than he is. He takes every opportunity to point this out.  This spring I plan to cut down on the number of tools I carry to the water. What are the 10 most important items you all would take to the water for a day a fly fishing?

 Required-rod reel line leader/tippet flies. Extras-spare tippet material, swiss army knife (in belt sheath), spare leaders, camera, net, vest, soap, towel, pliers(needle nosed). Of coarse variations due to water fished and locale are to be considered, for instance in some of the areas I frequent I carry a side arm due to the over abundance of cotton mouths. I probably carry an over abundance of flies unless I’ve been there the day before and conditions haven’t changed. Bear in mind That I fish Florida waters from the bank where snags are a given and fish for bream and bass so there are times when rod/reel selection changes.                                                            John Popp                                                          in Sanford Fl.

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I feel I show up a little light, I have desired but have never needed more stuff.  My vest is packed with the following: 1) 4 fly boxes, each holds 90 flys 2) 3 tippet spools 3) # 6 split shot 4) 4 spare tapered leaders varying length and weight 5) Hemostats 6) Nippers, keeps the dentist off my back 7) 3 liters of water, platypus with bite valve Toilet paper, keeps skid marks to a minimum 9) Gink, keeps George happy 10) Bug net Plus the required stuff wide brim hat, waders, boots, Rod/Reel and a good attitude Al Simpson – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What are the 10 most important items you all would take to the water for a day a fly fishing?

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I know I’m carrying 10 more pounds to the stream than he is. He takes every opportunity to point this out.  This spring I plan to cut down on the number of tools I carry to the water.

I suggest you just cut down on the number of soon to be father in laws. — Ken Fortenberry

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I got into fly fishing during the last year.  soon after my soon to be father-in-law became interested also.  naturally we go fishing together. I bring every possible fishing gadget I can carry, He on the other hand is a brings a rod.  I know I’m carrying 10 more pounds to the stream than he is. He takes every opportunity to point this out.  This spring I plan to cut down on the number of tools I carry to the water. What are the 10 most important items you all would take to the water for a day a fly fishing?

Response:

I got into fly fishing during the last year.  soon after my soon to be father-in-law became interested also.  naturally we go fishing together. I bring every possible fishing gadget I can carry, He on the other hand is a brings a rod.  I know I’m carrying 10 more pounds to the stream than he is. He takes every opportunity to point this out.  This spring I plan to cut down on the number of tools I carry to the water. What are the 10 most important items you all would take to the water for a day a fly fishing?

        don’t know that i would take that many items, but i’ll just start listing:         1. small box of flies, about a dozen dries, maybe six or eight nymphs.  patterns would vary, depending upon weather, time of year, stream chosen.         2.  fingernail clippers         3.  couple extra leaders         4.  couple spools of tippet material         5.  gink         6.  hook forcepts, or whatever you call them         7.  strike indicators         8.  lightweight knife         9.  can of tuna and some mustard, plastic utensils         10.  olympus compact 35mm camera         well, i’ll be damned.  there were ten items. wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Question:

Hell, man, you might have something here.  But, something *is* missing.  If you contact Ken Fortenberry on these pages, he can advise you of a certain "device".  If added to your "invention" it would make for the complete angler.  Joy, Joy, Joy. Dave

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everything snipped – hope you saw it the first time Man, that’s an effort.  Have another drink – you deserve it. mark faulkner

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Ever wondered what to do when the fish weren’t showing? Ever been distracted from your reverie by a fish showing?   Ever need to practise night casting during the day? Are you a purist who only fishes dry-fly and then only to fish you have not seen? Is catching a fish almost incidental to the experience?   Well, now you can practise night casting, reduce distraction, develop your blind searching strategies AND reduce the chances of catching fish simply by closing the 99.99999% opaque, 45+  UV filtered, scratch resistant, laminated and virtually indestructible visor of the BS-666.   No, its not just a motorcycle helmet with an opaque mask, the BS-666 is so much more, and it will make catching fish so much more difficult than you _EVER_ imagined possible: Made from ultralight graphite, machined from solid stock and modelled on the exquisite, entirely un-aerodynamic shape of the stealth bomber this helmet is packed with features including: – Super-duper, world’s best micro CD player.     * Get that retrieve rhythm just right. – Digital video camera, recorder and Heads up display.   Imagine being able to:     * Record the moment when a famous old bastard watched you deliver the       cast of a lifetime.     * Record the moment when an infamous old bastard delivered the cast of a       lifetime.     * Have instant replays of all the inaction.     * Watch other envious fishers watching you watching them.     * use a PC c/w hatch mismatch software and wrist mount keyboard – Satellite Link     * Get updates on the latest fishing equipment developments on usenet.     * Surf the web while you wait for a rise to stop or         * Use the internet to do your banking, purchase your next rod, etc. This would appear to be a painfully large quantity of equipment to carry around on your head.  However, the unit :     * is solar powered (battery packs are available for night-time use)     * uses nano technolgy for increased miniaturisation     * uses a patented helium-filled bubble wrap lining that reduces       both the load and ambient noise simultaneously.     * has aeration provided through a series of laser trimmed       worm holes, the twist and rifling of these holes being designed to       minimise ‘roaring’ that can be annoying in a breeze (ever been in       car travelling with an open rod tube lashed across the roof). The BS is in no way sticky or tacky in texture, in fact fitting the BS is enhanced by the lumpy bubble wrap lining which reduces surface-to-surface contact (the only contact with your head is at the very apex of the bubbles) and therefore friction. Proprietary cleaning products are required so that the the bubbles’ interstices are not clogged. Bubble Interstice No Clog cleaner, or BINC, has been designed just for this purpose and is also an excellent trophy cleaner. (*PHEW* nearly forgot that.)   Safety features abound also – for instance there is an ~optional~ Safe Personal Area Motion Detection and Laser Targetting system (your choice of armament depending on local statutes and/or personal taste) for use in areas frequented by large carnivores or black helicopters. (Use the SPAMDLT suffix when ordering eg. BS-666/SPAMDLT).   Do the Scandinavian countries have carnivores large enough to be a problem, Europe in general? I suppose the former Soviet arctic regions have bear, and Kashmiri may encounter the odd tiger ? I know the South Africans have a few beasties to deal with,  while here in Aus. the odd snake -both kinds- , or a croc up north, is about all we have to fear.  Of course the Kiwis, Scots, English and Irish have little to fear apart from a keeper or warden, or perhaps a feral spouse – perhaps there is a market there afterall. So, no matter where you live, in what corner of the World, for the ultimate in your blind search fishing pleasure and personal security, nothing and I mean *NOTHING* compares with the BS-666/SPAMDLT fishing helmet.   Expressions of interest are sought, so respond by email as it would be a misuse of usenet to continually post product updates to myriads of people the world over who are totally uninterested in these fine products. From your responses I will generate a mailing list which I will share with you all, (if you accede to it of course), and we can all swap update information and personal experiences.  Alternatively, you will be able check the website www.mybs.com which will be up  sooner or later ….         formulae, recipes and plans of the BS-666, the SPAMDLT options and         BINC will have been disposed of by the time you have read this UPDATE.   steve Just in case there is any confusion:   This post is meant to be humourous and a tad serious, and a small tad at that.   It is not meant to deride, denigrate, cast aspersions, nasturtiums,   or any other missile, animal vegetable or mineral, at any race or creed.  

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