Question:

Since it seems my employeer is blocking post’s to UseNet – it is a little old but . . .

Neat report.  Sounds like you already had a chance to fly fish some quality water.  Tight lines. Mu

Response:

Nice TR, Marshall. Sounds like you had a pretty good guide.

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Merced River:   This is the river that flows right through the middle of Yosemite, and gets heavy fishing pressure in the summer.  The guide I hired took us down below where most of the crowd fish.

Marshall, it was very close to there that I decided to take up fly fishing more seriously!  I had dabbled a little, but I was spinning on this particular trip to Yosemite.  I saw some trout in a feeding lane in a small clear pool, and there was no way I could catch them on my little spinner. It drove me nuts.  I decided then and there I was going to flyfish and next time I see some fish like those, I’m gonna get ‘em, dammit!  Fun trip.  I hiked down a trail (Tuolomne?) and ran into a couple guys camping who had a massive wild brown they caught on a Rapala in a deep canyon section.  Yup, different techniques are best for different conditions

Response:

Since it seems my employeer is blocking post’s to UseNet – it is a little old but . . . My first TR, so here goes . . . Location:  Merced River – Yosemite National Park, CA            Off Hwy 140, 1 mile below the 120/140 stop sign Elevation: 4,000 ft Date/Time: Saturday, Nov. 4th, 2001 [11am-4:30pm] Pictures located at: http://homepage.mac.com/mkrasser/PhotoAlbum4.html This is still my freshman year of flyfishing, [I started last Aug. 2001 on the Big Wood River in Sun Valley, ID.  Followed by a trip in Sept to the Feather River [Ca], 5 weeks ago I was at Putah Creek, [Ca], 4 weeks ago the Russian River [Ca], and 2 weeks ago a trip on the Klamath River [Ca] (K.R. pictures included at above web location). A quick Mini-TR on the Kamath,  the Salmon fishing was hot!  BUT, since we were NOT using flies I will not detail the 20 fish we caught and released [barbless hooks and roe] we did keep 2 for the smoker. I will mention the Steelhead that we were targeting with flies in the fast water . . . I forgot to "bow to the fish" do I need to say more? I lost the nice 6-7 pounder (guide est.) when it jumped for joy.  I had another major slam that I missed [using a mossback fly] as well.  We did manage to catch/release several nice native trout in our quest for Mr. Steelhead [top lft picure]. Merced River:   This is the river that flows right through the middle of Yosemite, and gets heavy fishing pressure in the summer.  The guide I hired took us down below where most of the crowd fish. This was mega-pocket water!!!  This late in the year, the water level is rather low and is super clear [16 ft leaders, ouch].  Lucky for us, the valley received a light rain the Wed. before our arrival, so the system received a last minute boost before winter.  Anyway, we were climbing over bus size granite boulders and rock hopping cross-stream, to get the perfect angle for the pockets.   I should mention that I dragged my wife along on her first flyfishing outing this day.  I was hoping that I could provide here with a positive experience on this trip, but according to the guide . . . this time of year, and on this river, a PHD is required.  The guide was very hands on and worked with both of us to get the technique down, but he tended to want to do most of the casting himself [we could hold the rod under his hand, though].  Using this technique, he was able to get her hooked into a nice bright orange native male – I was too far away to snap a photo   Even on this cool November day [30's rising to the mid 60's] there was a Baetis and Caddis hatch happening.  When we arrived at the first pool, our guide went nuts – there were at least 5 trout rising to the hatch at the head of the pool and at least one was a brown.   He worked with both of us at this pool, and we both missed our strikes – we then headed up stream to rest these fish.  And found others just as eager to miss our flies as well. I could just NOT see the sz18 Baetis fly in the pocket water.  Cool a swirl, guide say’s ah that was your fly he was swirling at!   We then went back down to pool #1 for try #2 at the fish – same result.  So we headed back upstream again.   We climbed up on this huge boulder and butt dragged to look over the edge – wow TWO 18-20 inchers directly below us.  Hmmm the Guide forgot to warn my wife as to why he and I were moving this way . . . so she walked right up to the edge and said, "oh look – fishies", and they said, "oh look human – goodbye".  Luckly this boulder was so huge it was in 2 zip codes, so they crawled [see pic: guide w/wife] to the head of the rock, and worked that pool. They just could not get the distance needed from here, so the guide and I moved down to water level and I missed another nice one.   We split sides here and I headed to a pool on the left and they headed to what looked like a prime pool.  With the guide’s assistance, BAM – she hooked-up and landed the bright male [14 incher].  On that note we headed back down to pool #1 again [my wet leg and all <grin].   The fish were happily slurping up the emergers and this time I connected.  As my wife pointed out . . . mine was not as big or as pretty as her’s [whatever].  We then hopped in our 4×4’s and headed downstream to what would be prime pocket water for me.   The guide worked a little more with my wife on her casting, but he was not quite patient enough [in my opinion], and I could tell she was getting bored and frustrated.   She said, go on ahead – I’ll rest here – ya right . . . she whipped out her knitting from her backpack and that was the end of that.   The guide and I headed into the land of small pocket water [I was casting rather well un-assisted by now - the guide was surprised - I was one with the line].  Interesting note that probably has no bearing on my flycasting targeting – but I was a deadly bait caster from my Table Rock Lake days – growing up in Missouri – I could flip that plastic worm or jig-n-pig right were I wanted it in the fallen/flooded timber at rather great distances [no use here in California].   Anyway,  I pulled 2 nice ones out of the first pocket just above the main pool and missed another 3 as well.  We figured they had moved up out of the still water to feed.  I was using a caddis pattern [that I could see] for these puppies.   We moved on up to one more small pocket, and the guide made me call where the strike would occur [he nailed it exactly in the previous pocket].  I called it, but after 4 casts and no take – the guide said let’s go home – must not be there.  One more cast I pleaded and that one did it – right where I called it <grin.   As the light started to fade we walked back to our vehicles and called it a day, in this land of giant rocks and golden sunlight. Sorry for the length, Marshall

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Question:

Hello Mu Young  Lee I’ve included an URL for an article by Ed Ward http://home.att.net/~slowsnap/spey16.htm BTW, I know you use a Don from Sharpes of Aberdeen, but does anyone else out there have recommendations for a reel.  I saved up my pennies for a 10 wt two-hander but now will need to save up some more to purchase a reel.

I use an Orvis ‘Spey’ reel it seems well made, sturdy and holds plenty of backing with both a floating and sinking line. Don’t know if it is available in USA as it is made in England. When I bought it it was

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – % % % % % I don’t know, but if this guy % is for real……he scares me!!!! % % This is the strait scoop.  Theres % nothing to be scared of unless your a % smartmouth like that stooge guy Moe. % % % Me, too!  Strangely, I’m reminded % of the thread from late % Summer/early Fall that dealt % with stories of sabotage, flattened % tires and other acts against fisher % people…  hmmmmmmmmmmmmm! % % I dont know nothin about that % stuff.  I just started posting % here.   I know % about guys who got their tires % slashed when they fished here in NY on them % Indian reservations.   You gotta % watch out for some of them jamokes when %they % go on the warpath.  I could tell % you stories but I dont got the time now. %The % little lady is already bitchin % cause Im running the computer instead of %helping % with her dishes. % % MEOW!!!! % % Tony G. % % % -tran % Oakland, CA % % % % % % % % THIS POSTED IN ALT.FAN.KARL-MALDEN.NOSE, %ALT.ALIEN.VAMPIRE.FLONK.FLONK.FLONK, % REC.OUTDOORS.FISHING.FLY  REC.OUTDOORS % FISHING.BASS, ALT.FISHING % % BOYCOTT THE COLEMAN STORE FOR CENSHORSHIP % www.rochesterweb.com/colemans % a.f.k-m.n.n (newbie)number of 2. % THIS POSTED IN ALT.FAN.KARL-MALDEN.NOSE, %ALT.ALIEN.VAMPIRE.FLONK.FLONK.FLONK, % REC.OUTDOORS.FISHING.FLY % REC.OUTDOORS FISHING.BASS, ALT.FISHING % % BOYCOTT THE COLEMAN STORE FOR CENSHORSHIP % www.rochesterweb.com/colemans % a.f.k-m.n.n (newbie)number of 2. % %PROBLEM THE FIRST: Adding "Subject" %to the subject header %is stupid and redundant and %fucks up the way that many %newsreaders, including Mozilla %and Agent, display threads. % %PROBLEM THE SECOND: You did not %x-post this to AFKMN, or %for that matter anywhere else, %and especially not any of %the groups that you list. In %fact, all of the people you %replied too will likely never %see your posts for this %reason. (You will note that %this has been corrected, %and I even added alt.flame %to the headers, because I %felt like flaming a newbie %anyway. You’re welcome.) % %PROBLEM THE THIRD: We (TINW) %do not issue "newbie %numbers". I don’t know who %told you that, and whoever %it is is probably going to be %really pissed that I ruined %the joke, but that’s the truth. % %PROBLEM THE FOURTH: Your grammar sucks. % %PROBLEM THE FIFTH: You make no %attempt at making anything %even vaguely resembling UPA. %This of course makes me %wonder why you are here in %the first place, unless of %course you are one of those %stupid newbie me-tooers that %have been plaguing us recently. %Which is in fact very %likely. % %PROBLEM THE SIXTH: You posted %your sig twice. Way to %go, dipshit. % %PROBLEM THE SEVENTH: You suck. % %CONCLUSION: I’d plonk you, but %I’m actually vaguely %interested as to how you react to this. % %– %mhm37×4                   crisis at quackquack dot com % %"They call them ‘bouncing %baby boys’, but they don’t really %bounce. They just sort of go ‘plop’." % %      -Bruce McCulloch % %Mr. Crisis; % %I dont got a lot of time to post %this morning.  I got up late and I gotta open %the shop up for the boys in a few minutes. % %I wrote Mr. Crisis cause I dont know %if your a guy or a girl from your name but %Im guessing your a guy.   If Im wrong %I figger you’ll let me know. % %I know Im a newbie and I figger %like most places this is some kind of %initation.  Im cool with that.  So %Im not gonna get insulting back at you %because that probably wouldnt be %the Meow way and Im trying to be a good Meower %now.  I hope I pass the initation. % %Ive been reading the Nose for weeks %now and I dont remeber seeing too much from %you before.  Your probably one of %them lower rankin Meowers that they use for %the initations.  Your not one of the %big time Meowers like Medcial Catastrophy. % Thats ok because you still rank higher %than me.  Its like us guys at the %volunteer fire dept all got different ranks. % %It dont always got anything to do %with how long you been somewhere neither.   I %been with the fire dept for 12 years %now but I take orders from the guy whose %Captain even though hes only been there %6 years and Im bigger than he is and I %could kick his behind if I wanted to. %   I figger its somethin like that. % %Im doing good as a mewoer so far. %Ive got all kinds of guys pissed off in all %them fishin groups and there talking %about ratting on me to compuserv and me %losing my account with compuserv. %Dont you people call that netpolice?  They %dont want me posting there because %they dont want to here nothing bad about the %fishing and the guys lifting and %snaggin the fish all the tiem. % %Before I go I wanted to talk about %some of them problems you mentioned.  Thanks %for posting to all those groups all %at once for me.   With this compuserv crap %I cant crosspost nothin.   The reason %for stuff being in my posts twice is %because Ive been copying and then %pasting all these posts to new posts and then %posting to each group individually. %It sure takes a lot of time and thats why %I dont have a lot of time to respond today. % %As far as them newbie numbers I got. %I got 3133T from Medical Catastrophy and %the other one I got from Scott Johnson. %I dont know what the Meow policy is on %them numbers but I figger that Medical % Catastrophy knows what hes talkin about. % Youll have to take it up with him. %Hes like your boss right? % %PS  Whats UPA?   I cant talk intelligent %about it if I dont know what it is. % %PPS   I know my writing sucks but %its better than it used to be.  Im trying but %its hard.  Its always been hard.   The %penguins were always making me stay %after school as a kid at the Catholic %school there.  I want to be a writer %though so I can write good stuff %about the storys my dad used to tell me about %WW2 and Toe Joe and Hero Hito. % %Ill see ya.  Thanks again. % %MEOW!!!!! % %Tony G.  3133T This troll.  It is simply too obvious. I will not respond to it. hey toneyg im liek teh lowest rankeing dued here next to loerd corkscrewbutt so yuo can litsen to me but be suer not to copey anytheing i do or respeong to me or yuoll be immeddieatetly gieven a vrey low mewo rank henvieng said thet i hace to respecteufleley disagree weth teh

Question:

Sorry if this topic has been covered before…     It is time for me to start thinking about freshening up my gear for the spring season.  I will need new lines on both my 6wt and 5wt rods.  For the 5wt. I will need a DT and a WF.  For the 6 wt I will need a WF and a sinking tip WF. In your collective experience what is the best line available in these weights?  Consider all-around fishing for both trout and warm-water species. TIA Joe

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Sorry if this topic has been covered before…    It is time for me to start thinking about freshening up my gear for = the spring season.  I will need new lines on both my 6wt and 5wt rods.  = For the 5wt. I will need a DT and a WF.  For the 6 wt I will need a WF = and a sinking tip WF. In your collective experience what is the best line available in these = weights?  Consider all-around fishing for both trout and warm-water = species. TIA Joe

Hi All, (#5 rod) I like double tapers for #3, 4 or 5 weight rods for stream fishing. They will usually have a shorter front taper that is better for short work and that will allow more belly out on short cast to load up the rod. On real short casts, a short rod, short front taper and short leader will allow you to have out way more belly to load up the rod. I think any of the top SA or Cortland lines are good. (#6 rod) I would get an SA Mastery Distance, Cortland 444Lazer or Cortland 444SL line in a weight forward #6 floater for that size rod. The best casting sink tips are the new SA Mastery Wet Tips. They have done something to the blending of the floating and sinking materials to eliminate the hinging effect. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, (#5 rod) I like double tapers for #3, 4 or 5 weight rods for stream fishing. They will usually have a shorter front taper that is better for short work and that will allow more belly out on short cast to load up the rod. On real short casts, a short rod, short front taper and short leader will allow you to have out way more belly to load up the rod. I think any of the top SA or Cortland lines are good. (#6 rod) I would get an SA Mastery Distance, Cortland 444Lazer or Cortland 444SL line in a weight forward #6 floater for that size rod. The best casting sink tips are the new SA Mastery Wet Tips. They have done something to the blending of the floating and sinking materials to eliminate the hinging effect. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

Bill Can you give us a bit more detail about those Wet Tips.  I should be using a sink tip for fishing speys to steelies but I hate casting the things.  I once klunked myself on the head casting a big saltwater fly on a 9 weight, for pike.  Sorta lost my enthusiasim for sink tips afterward.  Even when I mastered casting it, it was still too much like work.  Do the Wet Tips cast half-decently? Peter Peter        Merry Christmas

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Question:

Try rec.outdoors.fishing.fly Sorry can’t help you with the hatch.

Response:

: Folks, : Is there a flyfishing newsgroup? If so, would most appreciate the : address. I can’t seem to get my server to list all the available groups. : Thanks and would really appreciate e-mail. : BTW, anyone know what kind of hatch might be going on at a subalpine : lake (9,000) in western Montana? This for a novel I’m writing. rec.outdoors.fishing.fly rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.tying

Response:

Folks, Is there a flyfishing newsgroup? If so, would most appreciate the address. I can’t seem to get my server to list all the available groups. Thanks and would really appreciate e-mail. BTW, anyone know what kind of hatch might be going on at a subalpine lake (9,000) in western Montana? This for a novel I’m writing.

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Question:

Harrison River in British Columbia has lots of big (to 25lbs.), strong (I’ve broken at least one reel) salmon.  Chums are not great to eat, but for us catch & release people they can be fun.  Small pink marabou flies fished deep can be great.  Downstream from the bridge is a favorite spot. Help!  I’d really like more information on this fishery.  Any and all suggestions would be appreciated.  Thanks!  :-) P.S. Please E-MAIL me your response (I am usually out fishing, so I don’t have time to MONITOR this bulletin board…but email gets to me no problem).  Thanks K Lawson

Response:

I’ve fished the Harrison for a number of years. You want chums try flour red or orange glo-bug yarn with a tinsel body. Dead drift with a type 4 sink tip. For a change of pace try cutts part on the east shore. More my style. I find the big dogs  (and if you’ve been fishing in BC as long as me you’d call them dogs) kind of boring after getting over the initial novelty of big fish on the fly. But lots of people enjoy these hard pulling fish and if that’s you’re cup of tea – you know where they are. Should continue into Nov. Try the chehalis just up the Morris Valley road by the Sasquatch Inn for mondo dogs and lots of coho. Good cutts in Dec and steelhead show in late Dec- Jan. Gets very crwoded tho’ Best of luck!

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Question:

Hey all – I am just starting fly fishing.  If you were starting – and were still in college – what would you buy to start out with?

Response:

Hey all – I am just starting fly fishing.  If you were starting – and were still in college – what would you buy to start out with?

Several manufacturers have "kits" available.  These kits include a good quality rod, reel, line, and other stuff.  This other stuff may include leader, tippet, some flies, instruction manual, and FFishing guide.   These manufacturers include Cortland, Sage, Fenwick, St Croix, Loomis, Orvis and others.  Many can be purchased for under $100, others under $150.  The greater the price (in some cases) the better the rod.  These kits can be purchased ad fly shops in your area or from fly fishing catalogs.  Welcome to a great new world.  Remember, in Fly Fishing, the difference between want and need is irrelevant.

Response:

Hey all – I am just starting fly fishing.  If you were starting – and were still in college – what would you buy to start out with?

Find a good fly shop, especially one that will deal in trade-ins and listen closely to what they tell you and watch what they show you. To tell if its a good shop – hang arouns a little, if every customer comming in knows the owner/clerk/guide – you’ve found one.  No shops around?  Find a news shop and pick up a copy of American Angler or Fly Fisherman, and call some of the advertisers.  Research until you are comfortable.   Or buy a RedStart, Sage DS, or a Cortland 444 "Just add water kit" jg

Response:

Hey all – I am just starting fly fishing.  If you were starting – and were still in college – what would you buy to start out with?

Hi If I were just starting out and wanted to know a little about the sport before I started buying stuff (which can be quite expensive).  Call the Federation of Fly Fishers and request their educational booklets.  They are $2.00 each plus S&H.  I recommend the following four: Introduction to Fly Fishing Introduction to Fly Tying Beginning Entomology Learning to Fly Cast Good luck and Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

Response:

I started out 20 years ago with a k-mart special (though I did get a better DT fly line for it). Still occasionally use that old rod, taught my kids, and friends who wanted to try fly fishing with it. I would suspect that’s about as an inexpensive way as possable to start out. Lolo Mt.

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Hey all – I am just starting fly fishing.  If you were starting – and were still in college – what would you buy to start out with?

Get the Bass Pro Shops catalog that has white river fly fishing in it call 800-227-7776 and ask for it. Pick out the best rod setup you can afford and then go buy Lefty Krey’s casting method at a book store. Read and practice, practice and read, soon you will hit what you aim at then you are ready to go to the stream. Bryant, BJC’s Custom Rod & Tackle

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Question:

Are you talking about the Deleware river?

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Does anyone know what is the best hatch to use this time of year? I’m new to Fly Fishing and would appreciate some free advice. Thankyou — James A. Neild

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Check out the interactive hatch chart for the Delaware system and the Catskills at www.mayfly.com. Does anyone know what is the best hatch to use this time of year? I’m new to Fly Fishing and would appreciate some free advice. Thankyou — James A. Neild

– — Steven Schwartz www.loosecannon.com www.panix.com/~smsinc Give credit to those who want it.

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Question:

…looks like it has great potential as a fly fishing stream.  Do you know where it is? — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

Response:

Nice cuts and one can actually walk away from the roads. Moose, Elk, Deer and an occasional bear (grizzly) pask

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Question:

(paraphrased with ADD in mind) is that we’re all given a car to drive, some of us are given a Mercedes, some are given a Yugo.  God knows what kind of car we’re driving and is going to cut us ADDers some slack!

        I’m driving a "Lada". Lada is not accepted by the US car-registration.         That is the problem, not that Lada would be a dangerous car or that         it wouldn’t work.         The point in my illustration is that God accepts and understands, but         people don’t. We can manage well, but we are always causing problems         in the traffic. People with fast cars shout to us. We can/dare use         our car only in small roads, in highways we would be killed. Your         car never brings you success and it always breaks to the roadside. just open their Bible and read until their mind starts wandering, or until they get sleepy, then to try and set a fixed time goal or quantity goal.  When you do that, you may be setting yourself up for failure.  Look upon prayer and Bible reading as something to be enjoyed, not a chore to be endured.

        The Bible doesn’t differ from a normal book in the matter that if you         get in, you can read it for hours. I recommend reading the Bible         through from Genesis to Revelation. Use a translation that is the         most convenient for you, using modern and simple  language. My fellow ADDers, I don’t wish this forum to turn into alt.religion.nausea either, but it sounds like for Jack and for surely for me, our faith helps us live with ADD, and we here have all seemed to respect those things we have all posted that "work for me."  If you haven’t explored your own spirituality, I encourage you to do so, in whatever way feels right for you.  Sometimes its the only thing that brings me any calm.  

        I have strong religious ideas that I don’t share in this forum (the         other newsgroups are for that). If someone wants to discuss with me         about religion in general, you can do that by email.         Religion has helped me very much. I got rid of demons. For those, who         refuse to believe in demons I could say that they were utterly         terrible nightmares with the difference that in normal nightmares         you don’t wake up having wounds all over your body. I think this         psychological stress made my ADD and MBD worse.         —                 Andreas – Siperian Sirri   Siberian Stint Disclaimer: My ideas don’t represent Joensuu University, the pope, MIT, Kiihtelysvaara Cat-raisers club, KGB, Aeroflot, United Arab Emirates or

Response:

| | Who is it that has such control of the life I call my own? | Is there a plan?  Who has it?  Does anyone?   | By what authority must I do this but not this? | And if not able to willfully do such, does He take that which compels me to | disobey – and with it a whole lot more than that?  Or does he not, and thus | I am at a loss to explain that world in which I exist? | | Prepare ye the way of the world.  For that which is – is, and we need not | labor over why, just what and how. | Follow My word and ye shall be rewarded!   | "Allejuiah!"   | But hath I the patience, the strength to endure until then?   | | I am a servant, albeit a lousy one | But must I be a slave as well? | Are ANY earthly pleasures mine to be had? | Or is there meaning only in eternity? | If so, when, WHEN will tomorrow come? | Is that also His and only His to know? | | Why must it be that whatever goes up must come down? | This is just the way it is – but says who? | We see that if one drops a tennis ball, it rises again | only after it has hit the bottom. | But, where is "rock bottom"? | And, am I not a tennis ball?  Perhaps I am an egg instead. | | Is there only one way to find out? | I am too afraid to find out but have no choice! | Lest I take away by force that which was given to me. | But is all that is given His perogative to give then taketh away? | Is it ONLY HIS perogative? | Have I any hope of reaching eternal bliss by my own hand? | | Is there any earthly relief?   | Am I even worthy of such? | Am I a such trash for asking? | Do my own actions explain my suffering? | Am I the one in control of my world?   | Or is it my purpose to surrender control to Him? | | But I am a coward. | I can face neither life nor death. | Yet I know not which is worse. | I hath the guts to endure neither | And so I face nothing | and walk aimlessly along in despair. | |                               -s. troubled | |         OY! Chill out man         Its a great life if you don’t weaken         Have a nice day         My best friend is having a baby         Today is a Solar Eclipse         I have friends         I was just listed in Whos who         My daughter told me a joke that was funny         and didn’t have ANY scatological references         Baltimore Orioles are nesting in my yard         It’s spring         Ronald Regan isn’t President anymore         Beer tastes good         Flying         Fly fishing         Hope         A good joke         Just finished a semester         Reading a good Roger Zelazney         (Add your favorite things here)

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -The other thing that folks with ADD need to know is that God will accept you as you are.  I’m not trying to do an electronic altar call here, but I think it’s important to mention this because so many people (even, unfortunately, some in churches) do NOT accept ADD people as they are.  It says in the Bible that man looks on the outward appearance, but God looks on the heart.  People with ADD who try to get active with a Christian group may have the unfortunate experience of coming across someone who thinks they are God’s agent of correction for the wayfaring… the kind who don’t have an ounce of Christian love in them, but who are quite ready and willing to tell you that you need to do certain things and that laziness is sin and so on.  In almost every case you will find as you come to know these people that they are the biggest hypocrites in the church, but unfortunately, many people don’t stick around long enough to find that out… they think "these people hate me!" and vow never to darken the door of that church again!  The

Thanks for saying this, Jack.  C.S. Lewis talks about natural "temperaments" and the like in Mere Christianity and one of his thoughts (paraphrased with ADD in mind) is that we’re all given a car to drive, some of us are given a Mercedes, some are given a Yugo.  God knows what kind of car we’re driving and is going to cut us ADDers some slack! Another thing that ADD people need to beware of are the people who will load you down with all sorts of regulations that you can’t possibly follow.  Often this will come across as something like "If you are REALLY SERIOUS about being a Christian, you will do thus and such!"

Indeed.  The criminal who was crucified with Christ did not have time to "do" anything.  He just asked Jesus to "remember me." and Jesus told him that today he would be with him in paradise.  Just believe.  That’s it. encouraged, but I think many ADD people will find it much easier to just open their Bible and read until their mind starts wandering, or until they get sleepy, then to try and set a fixed time goal or quantity goal.  When you do that, you may be setting yourself up for failure.  Look upon prayer and Bible reading as something to be enjoyed, not a chore to be endured.

Here here. I’m telling you this from personal experience.  Unfortunately, early on in my Christian life I got around too many people who delighted in telling other Christians exactly how to live, down to minute detail… and I can tell you in no uncertain terms that this hurt my Christian walk rather than helping it!  I hold no malice toward those folks; neither they nor I knew that I had ADD, and I think it would have made a difference in how they would have approached me had they known.  And in any case, most of them learned the error of acting in this way, but unfortunately not until they had hurt some people.  I just hope those who were hurt didn’t give up on God.  I’m glad that I didn’t.

My fellow ADDers, I don’t wish this forum to turn into alt.religion.nausea either, but it sounds like for Jack and for surely for me, our faith helps us live with ADD, and we here have all seemed to respect those things we have all posted that "work for me."  If you haven’t explored your own spirituality, I encourage you to do so, in whatever way feels right for you.  Sometimes its the only thing that brings me any calm.   God bless you all!   Nancy

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As a fellow agnostic who has always wanted to find God… I wish you luck.  Gee, if I ever thought I was feeling depressed….;(  Feel better stan. –Rachel It will get better…summer is coming – my brother, Josh

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Please note that this is not an off-the-wall, irrelevent post in an inappropriate newsgroup… there have actually been three or four messages recently in alt.support.attn-deficit that in a roundabout way dealt with this topic, though they did not have this subject heading. If you you are the sort who likes to flame people for talking about God, just hit the "n" key now and spare yourself the effort, because I promine to ignore your nastygram. Having said that, I will point out that what follows should be taken as my opinion.  I’m not a preacher, just a struggling and OFTEN imperfect Christian.  I’m not trying to hold myself up as a role model for anyone.  I believe that churches are (or at least should be) hospitals for sinners, not museums for saints. If you are truly trying to find God, it would seem that the logical place to look would be the Bible.  But there are a couple of pitfalls here, particularly for those with ADD.  In particular, the first time you read the Bible you should NOT start at the beginning.  What will happen is that as you start to read Genesis, you will first come across some things that are hard to understand without having some background, and then you will come across the seemingly endless genealogies that will put you to sleep.  Better to start in the New Testament.  The best place to start for most people is the book of John, but if you really crave excitement you might want to start with the book of Acts.  Not only is the New Testament more relevent to us today, it’s also more current.  If you MUST start in the Old Testament, try starting at something like I or II Kings, or I or II Samuel.  For the most part, you won’t be bored in those books, but you may find some things that are hard to understand at first. And at risk of offending the few diehards who insist that the King James version was good enough for the disciples so it ought to be good enough for you , let me point out that unless you LOVE reading 400 year olde English, you’ll probably find a modern translation much easier to understand… BUT, be careful you don’t get one put out by a particular sect that changes certain verses to promote their theology. I recommend the New International Version (published by Zondervan), if only because the translators came from a wide variety of demoninational backgrounds that for the most part kept denominational bias out.  There are other good modern translations out as well.  I don’t want to argue this point if anyone disagrees, but personally I would steer clear of anyone who insists that there is only ONE version of the Bible you should read (they are probably either in a cult, or at very least they don’t trust that God is able to reveal his truth to you through any version other than the one THEY like!). And if you just can’t get into the thought of reading the Bible right now, but would consider reading a more modern and interesting book, may I suggest you visit your library or a bookstore and ask for a copy of "Mere Christianity" by C.S. Lewis.  This book has been around for close to fifty years now (I think it was written in the ’40’s) but it is as relevent today as ever.  If you’ve been told you have to have "blind faith" and turn off your intellect to understand God (NOT true!) and you can’t accept that, then this is the book for you.  It was one of those books that I was able to easily "hyperfocus" on; I couldn’t put it down! The other thing that folks with ADD need to know is that God will accept you as you are.  I’m not trying to do an electronic altar call here, but I think it’s important to mention this because so many people (even, unfortunately, some in churches) do NOT accept ADD people as they are.  It says in the Bible that man looks on the outward appearance, but God looks on the heart.  People with ADD who try to get active with a Christian group may have the unfortunate experience of coming across someone who thinks they are God’s agent of correction for the wayfaring… the kind who don’t have an ounce of Christian love in them, but who are quite ready and willing to tell you that you need to do certain things and that laziness is sin and so on.  In almost every case you will find as you come to know these people that they are the biggest hypocrites in the church, but unfortunately, many people don’t stick around long enough to find that out… they think "these people hate me!" and vow never to darken the door of that church again!  The problem is, that was NOT God speaking to you, that was just someone else who is in worse shape than you are (even if they have some position in the church).  Here’s how to test these people, and at the same time avoid making the same mistake yourself:  Read Romans chapter 14.  The entire chapter.  Not just once, but as often as it takes for it to really sink in.  Then measure those people against that chapter. If they are violating the letter and spirit of the Bible with every word of condemnation they utter, don’t let them ruin YOUR relationship with God! Another thing that ADD people need to beware of are the people who will load you down with all sorts of regulations that you can’t possibly follow.  Often this will come across as something like "If you are REALLY SERIOUS about being a Christian, you will do thus and such!" Unless they can show you where this is COMMANDED in the Bible (and not just in one obscure verse, and make sure it’s an actual COMMAND, not an example of something that someone did voluntarily), don’t listen to it, especially if it sounds like an impossible command for you!  For example, some people will tell you that you MUST read the Bible x number of minutes per day, or that you must read a certain number of verses or chapters a day.  The problem is that while this may be what God wants that person to do (and indeed, their life may have been turned around by following that advice), chances are that God did NOT tell them to go out and preach that as a COMMAND to everyone – they just figure that since it worked so well for them, it must work for everyone!  And since everyone is different, what God wants that one person to do may not be what he wants YOU to do.  Make no mistake, prayer is good and Bible reading is good and both are things to be encouraged, but I think many ADD people will find it much easier to just open their Bible and read until their mind starts wandering, or until they get sleepy, then to try and set a fixed time goal or quantity goal.  When you do that, you may be setting yourself up for failure.  Look upon prayer and Bible reading as something to be enjoyed, not a chore to be endured. I’m telling you this from personal experience.  Unfortunately, early on in my Christian life I got around too many people who delighted in telling other Christians exactly how to live, down to minute detail… and I can tell you in no uncertain terms that this hurt my Christian walk rather than helping it!  I hold no malice toward those folks; neither they nor I knew that I had ADD, and I think it would have made a difference in how they would have approached me had they known.  And in any case, most of them learned the error of acting in this way, but unfortunately not until they had hurt some people.  I just hope those who were hurt didn’t give up on God.  I’m glad that I didn’t. The last thing I would say is that when you are ready to start attending church, don’t be afraid to try several until you find the one that you feel the presence of God in (but please, don’t confuse man-made enthusiasm with the presence of God, they are two quite different things!).  If you pray and ask God to show you to the right church, He will… BUT it may not necessarily be the first church you walk into.  You may have to try several. ADD people have to be careful of three types of churches:  First, the type where the services are so predictable and boring that you find yourself counting the ceiling tiles.  Second, the ones that are so legalistic and narrow that you will be condemned as being lazy, crazy, or stupid (a.k.a. "foolish") before they even know you.  You need spiritual help; that’s why you’re there, and if all they can offer is condemnation, they’re blinder than you are (in a spiritual sense) and will be of no help to you whatsoever!  Third, the cults.  The problem here is that the cults often tend to know exactly what’s wrong with the other churches, and therefore they will go out of their way to be both exciting and interesting, BUT they twist the scriptures to suit their own purposes (which are often to make money for the people highest in the cult hierarchy).  In addition, following their teachings will NOT secure eternal life for you (at least not in any place you’d want to spend eternity).  I’m getting dangerously close to preaching here, which I said I wouldn’t do, but I do think it’s important to KNOW where you will spend eternity after you die… and that’s all I’ll say about that here. There is a passage in the Bible, in the book of Matthew (chapter 11, verses 28-30) that I think is especially appropriate for those with ADD that are seeking God.  Jesus is speaking, and he says, "Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest.  Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.  For my yoke is easy and my burden is light." Jack Jack Decker   |   "What were once options are now mandates!" Please note:  Some days I get lots of e-mail.  On such days, I read it all, but don’t personally respond to all of it due to lack of time.

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Who is it that has such control of the life I call my own? Is there a plan?  Who has it?  Does anyone?   By what authority must I do this but not this? And if not able to willfully do such, does He take that which compels me to disobey – and with it a whole lot more than that?  Or does he not, and thus I am at a loss to explain that world in which I exist? Prepare ye the way of the world.  For that which is – is, and we need not labor over why, just what and how. Follow My word and ye shall be rewarded!   "Allejuiah!"   But hath I the patience, the strength to endure until then?   I am a servant, albeit a lousy one But must I be a slave as well? Are ANY earthly pleasures mine to be had? Or is there meaning only in eternity? If so, when, WHEN will tomorrow come? Is that also His and only His to know? Why must it be that whatever goes up must come down? This is just the way it is – but says who? We see that if one drops a tennis ball, it rises again only after it has hit the bottom. But, where is "rock bottom"? And, am I not a tennis ball?  Perhaps I am an egg instead. Is there only one way to find out? I am too afraid to find out but have no choice! Lest I take away by force that which was given to me. But is all that is given His perogative to give then taketh away? Is it ONLY HIS perogative? Have I any hope of reaching eternal bliss by my own hand? Is there any earthly relief?   Am I even worthy of such? Am I a such trash for asking? Do my own actions explain my suffering? Am I the one in control of my world?   Or is it my purpose to surrender control to Him? But I am a coward. I can face neither life nor death. Yet I know not which is worse. I hath the guts to endure neither And so I face nothing and walk aimlessly along in despair.                               -s. troubled

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