Question:

A large mouth bass is not picky or scared much.  They are very aggressive. The more noise the angrier they get.  If it gets too hot, as it does down South, they will hide in the weeds during the heat of the day.

Actually, I think it is light rather than heat they tend to avoid.  They tend to "hide" in deeper water when not feeding and when it is available.  If all the water is 8-10 feet or less, then weeds and logs it will have to be.  Of course, if you pound the shallow weeds long enough, you’ll eventually catch some stragglers. If nothing is hitting it, you can be sure a bass is sizing it up.  He may not hit it the first time.  Present it to him again.

I wouldn’t be so sure about that.  It’s very easy to fish in the 90% of the water that has no fish.

Response:

A large mouth bass is not picky or scared much.  They are very aggressive. The more noise the angrier they get.  If it gets too hot, as it does down South, they will hide in the weeds during the heat of the day.  The really go for poppers, but I have also found they like slow sinking bugs.  I do not know the proper name for it, but my favorite is  a flat moss green wool bug with long rubber feelers and eyes.

There is a fly that’s similar to your description, that’s tied with something like hula skirts on backwards – called a pig boat. John

Response:

The family vacation this August is taking me to a huge warm lake with no trout for miles.  I have never fished for bass and figure this is a good time to try.  I need help with flies and tactics.  There is supposedly good fishing for smallmouth, largemouth and stripers (not to mention walleyes, crappies, etc.).  Maybe someone can refer me to a website for beginner bass flyfishermen? As always any advice will be much appreciated. tom

Response:

A large mouth bass is not picky or scared much.  They are very aggressive. The more noise the angrier they get.  If it gets too hot, as it does down South, they will hide in the weeds during the heat of the day.  The really go for poppers, but I have also found they like slow sinking bugs.  I do not know the proper name for it, but my favorite is  a flat moss green wool bug with long rubber feelers and eyes. The perch will give your lure a fit within the first 5 to ten second of the lure landing.  If nothing is hitting it, you can be sure a bass is sizing it up.  He may not hit it the first time.  Present it to him again. They strike at any given angle.  I recently caught a 5 pounder that simply slurpped the popper without breaking the water.  The same day a 2 pounder completely cleared the surface of the water and took the fly on the way back down (Shamu style  ). We use barbless on our lake.  But if you are hungry, you best leave your barb intact.  They love to shake ‘em out at the shore line. I have caught them on tiny black flies, as well as large frogs, and mice. Scott

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The family vacation this August is taking me to a huge warm lake with no trout for miles.  I have never fished for bass and figure this is a good time to try.  I need help with flies and tactics.  There is supposedly good fishing for smallmouth, largemouth and stripers (not to mention walleyes, crappies, etc.).  Maybe someone can refer me to a website for beginner bass flyfishermen? As always any advice will be much appreciated. tom

Response:

Question:

You’re going to Key West right?  More likely to see lots of guys in

butt-flossing suits. Hairy butts in a butt-flosser?  Eeewww! I’ll have nightmares tonight.  Thanks. Many people think its safer to fly to Key West from Miami along the chain of islands as opposed to directly across the Florida Bay (via Victor 225 or B9 if you have an ADF or GPS).

That was my reasoning.  Coming from my direction, it’s either that or over the swamp then ocean. Besides, another pilot told me that flying US1 is probably the most beautiful flying that can be had in the States.  I’m not so sure.  As you can see on the sectional there are very few airports, public or private, in the keys.  If you lose an engine you probably aren’t going to be able to make a successful landing on US 1

Oh?  Why not?  Flying along the west coast will be shorter but I was gonna head to Miami for just that reason. At least a car is likely to spot me going down, right? Finally be sure and watch out of R-2916.  The government launches a 14,000 ft high tethered balloon there with radar to catch drug smugglers or whatever.  You sure don’t want to wander off course and fly into it.

Yeah, I’ve pointed that out to a few co-workers.  a 14,000 foot tether. That’s amazing. Thanks for your comments.  Anything else you wanna share would be appreciated. — Jim Fisher North Alabama Cherokee 180

Response:

Anyone wanna tackle this? I’m planning to go to Key West in a couple of days.  VFR.  Jimmy Buffet Parrothead convention.

Didn’t know there were Buffet conventions.  Now that I do, I can’t imagine missing the next one.  Does Jimmy bring the Albatross?  There used to be one of those based on a lake near where I live.  The owner would do type ratings for the local Continental pilots.  It was just awesome watching that thing coming in low, landing (watering???), then taxiing around on the lake for a takeoff.  It’s gone now, think the owner took it to Lake Powell. I’ll be flying from PDK (Atlanta) to EYW (Key West) departing Friday morning and coming back Sunday. My decision, right now, is to go. Just for the sake of discussion (and if anyone would like to take the time), what’s the weather/trip look like to you experienced fellers?  What sources of info do you base your assessment on?

I decided long ago to use DUATS for information only but to talk to a real live briefer before I go anywhere.    The FSS briefers are *required* to intepret the information they are giving you, whereas the computer of course can’t do that. Pull a DUATs report, try to figure out where the little jerkwater places that they use as weather reporting points are, then try to understand which of the NOTAMS they list apply to your flight (WHY in God’s name do they tell me about Iranian airspace restrictions when I’m flying from Houston to Austin?  For those of you in the UK, that route of flight does not go close to Iran, or Iraq, or Oklahoma, or any other foreign country). My favorite weather source, believe it or not, is this one: http://www.uswx.com/.   I expect that there are others that do something similar, but this lets me look at fronts, and movement, etc.  So I’ll keep an eye on this, and talk to the FSS guys sometime before I head for the airport to see if I missed something and to get their intepretation. So far, it’s worked for me. Or, a trite answer:  If you are worried, don’t go.  If you go anyway, be mindful of accident chains and watch for one forming. Good luck!  I’m looking at your route weather now, and it looks crappy in Pensacola and South Florida.  http://www.uswx.com/us/wx/FL/

Response:

There’s another ballon just like that near Cross City, FL that you will pass going to the Keys from Atlanta. Before you buy.

Response:

SNIP Oh?  Why not?  Flying along the west coast will be shorter but I was gonna head to Miami for just that reason.

US 1 is a two lane road with lots of traffic and no berm.  Its also crisscrossed with lots and lots of electric and telephone lines, trees, etc. I wouldn’t say its impossible but, overall, in my opinion its a pretty poor choice for a landing strip. Your friends who commented that its a beautiful flight (from Miami to Key West) are correct, it is. If you decide to go the west coast route stop at Everglades City (X01), the best kept airport secret in south Florida.  Its the entrance to the "unspoiled" part of the Everglades and offers a couple of good restaurants and a beautiful flight over the "10,000 islands" south of Naples.    If you go the Miami route stop at Marathon (MTH) which actually has a much longer runway then Key West, a friendly FBO, lots of restaurants, and generally a far more laid-back experience then Key West (plus you won’t find many hairy butts wearing flossed bathing suits there). Have a great time! Regards, Tom

Response:

Trouble is, if the weather is too bad to fly, most of the women won’t be on the beach.  On the other hand you can always fish in the rain.  Enjoy the trip. Brian E. High wing sissy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Being stuck in Key West won’t be so bad if you are smart enough to remember your fishing gear . You know, that’s a terribly obvious statement but one I haven’t really considered. There are worse things than being stranded on a beach filled with women wearing them butt-flossing suits. Thanks, — Jim Fisher North Alabama Cherokee 180

Response:

WHY in God’s name do they tell me about Iranian airspace restrictions when I’m flying from Houston to Austin?  

Seems to me there’s a question about non-associated FDC NOTAMS, and you have to appropriately answer the question about declining to see them. If you don’t answer the question the right way, then you get the Iranian and Afghani airspace restrictions as well as the ones about not transporting Ferdinand Marcos’s body.  At least that’s the way the Contel/GTE/whoeverytheyarenow DUATS (duats.com) system works. Larry

Response:

You’re going to Key West right?  More likely to see lots of guys in butt-flossing suits. Hairy butts in a butt-flosser?  Eeewww! I’ll have nightmares tonight.  Thanks.

Uck!!! Gee Jim, thanks a lot for bring up that eventuality.  I am going to go thrown up now.

Response:

Being stuck in Key West won’t be so bad if you are smart enough to remember your fishing gear .

You know, that’s a terribly obvious statement but one I haven’t really considered. There are worse things than being stranded on a beach filled with women wearing them butt-flossing suits. Thanks, — Jim Fisher North Alabama Cherokee 180

Response:

There are worse things than being stranded on a beach filled with women wearing them butt-flossing suits.

You’re going to Key West right?  More likely to see lots of guys in butt-flossing suits. You should have flown down last weekend for Fantasy Fest.  Its held in Key West every year the weekend before Halloween.  Its a combination Mardi Gras, Halloween sort of thing.  Two years ago, when my wife and I flew down for Fantasy Fest, the airport was crammed chock full with airplanes.  The guy in the golf cart from the FBO said my wife and I were one of the few couples to arrive with clothes on that afternoon.  Apparently its a fun thing to fly naked. On a serious note, if your flight segment includes Naples to Key West be sure and file a DVFR flight plan.  Its mandatory.   VFR flights from Miami along the keys do not require DVFR flight plans even though the route of flight crosses the ADIZ.  Check out your AF/D for more information. Many people think its safer to fly to Key West from Miami along the chain of islands as opposed to directly across the Florida Bay (via Victor 225 or B9 if you have an ADF or GPS).  I’m not so sure.  As you can see on the sectional there are very few airports, public or private, in the keys.  If you lose an engine you probably aren’t going to be able to make a successful landing on US 1 (the only road in the keys) and with no fields or open spaces its the water, the mangrove swamps, or shopping centers to land in. Finally be sure and watch out of R-2916.  The government launches a 14,000 ft high tethered balloon there with radar to catch drug smugglers or whatever.  You sure don’t want to wander off course and fly into it. Have Fun!   I wish I was joining you! Regards, Tom

Response:

I don’t know nuttin ’bout no Parrotheads! Have flying lessons on Friday. But sounds like a great trip!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Regardless of the weather, you are absolutely going to need a designated pilot. Well, I was planning to designate *myself* as designated pilot.  Perhaps you are speaking of a designated IFR pilot in, perhaps, a designated Saratoga? You offering? — Jim Fisher North Alabama Cherokee 180 Anyone wanna tackle this? I’m planning to go to Key West in a couple of days.  VFR.  Jimmy Buffet Parrothead convention. I’ll be flying from PDK (Atlanta) to EYW (Key West) departing Friday morning and coming back Sunday. My decision, right now, is to go. Just for the sake of discussion (and if anyone would like to take the time), what’s the weather/trip look like to you experienced fellers?  What sources of info do you base your assessment on? Up ’till now, all my x/c hops have been relatively short 300nm trips and weather during those times has been very predictable and easy to understand. This time, though, I’m looking at a wandering jet stream and a big, nasty, slooooow moving front that bisects the USA.  Then we have some sorta cloud cover in the Gulf that’s moving towards the Florida panhandle. Oh, and yeah, yeah, I’m studying for the instrument exam so don’t go there! Jim Fisher North Alabama Cherokee 180

Response:

Being stuck in Key West won’t be so bad if you are smart enough to remember your fishing gear . Mike MU-2

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Anyone wanna tackle this? I’m planning to go to Key West in a couple of days.  VFR.  Jimmy Buffet Parrothead convention. I’ll be flying from PDK (Atlanta) to EYW (Key West) departing Friday morning and coming back Sunday. My decision, right now, is to go. Just for the sake of discussion (and if anyone would like to take the time), what’s the weather/trip look like to you experienced fellers?  What sources of info do you base your assessment on? Up ’till now, all my x/c hops have been relatively short 300nm trips and weather during those times has been very predictable and easy to understand. This time, though, I’m looking at a wandering jet stream and a big, nasty, slooooow moving front that bisects the USA.  Then we have some sorta cloud cover in the Gulf that’s moving towards the Florida panhandle. Oh, and yeah, yeah, I’m studying for the instrument exam so don’t go there! Jim Fisher North Alabama Cherokee 180

Response:

Regardless of the weather, you are absolutely going to need a designated pilot.

Well, I was planning to designate *myself* as designated pilot.  Perhaps you are speaking of a designated IFR pilot in, perhaps, a designated Saratoga? You offering? — Jim Fisher North Alabama Cherokee 180 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone wanna tackle this? I’m planning to go to Key West in a couple of days.  VFR.  Jimmy Buffet Parrothead convention. I’ll be flying from PDK (Atlanta) to EYW (Key West) departing Friday morning and coming back Sunday. My decision, right now, is to go. Just for the sake of discussion (and if anyone would like to take the time), what’s the weather/trip look like to you experienced fellers?  What sources of info do you base your assessment on? Up ’till now, all my x/c hops have been relatively short 300nm trips and weather during those times has been very predictable and easy to understand. This time, though, I’m looking at a wandering jet stream and a big, nasty, slooooow moving front that bisects the USA.  Then we have some sorta cloud cover in the Gulf that’s moving towards the Florida panhandle. Oh, and yeah, yeah, I’m studying for the instrument exam so don’t go there! Jim Fisher North Alabama Cherokee 180

Response:

Anyone wanna tackle this? I’m planning to go to Key West in a couple of days.  VFR.  Jimmy Buffet Parrothead convention. I’ll be flying from PDK (Atlanta) to EYW (Key West) departing Friday morning and coming back Sunday. My decision, right now, is to go. Just for the sake of discussion (and if anyone would like to take the time), what’s the weather/trip look like to you experienced fellers?  What sources of info do you base your assessment on? Up ’till now, all my x/c hops have been relatively short 300nm trips and weather during those times has been very predictable and easy to understand. This time, though, I’m looking at a wandering jet stream and a big, nasty, slooooow moving front that bisects the USA.  Then we have some sorta cloud cover in the Gulf that’s moving towards the Florida panhandle. Oh, and yeah, yeah, I’m studying for the instrument exam so don’t go there! Jim Fisher North Alabama Cherokee 180

Response:

Regardless of the weather, you are absolutely going to need a designated pilot.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone wanna tackle this? I’m planning to go to Key West in a couple of days.  VFR.  Jimmy Buffet Parrothead convention. I’ll be flying from PDK (Atlanta) to EYW (Key West) departing Friday morning and coming back Sunday. My decision, right now, is to go. Just for the sake of discussion (and if anyone would like to take the time), what’s the weather/trip look like to you experienced fellers?  What sources of info do you base your assessment on? Up ’till now, all my x/c hops have been relatively short 300nm trips and weather during those times has been very predictable and easy to understand. This time, though, I’m looking at a wandering jet stream and a big, nasty, slooooow moving front that bisects the USA.  Then we have some sorta cloud cover in the Gulf that’s moving towards the Florida panhandle. Oh, and yeah, yeah, I’m studying for the instrument exam so don’t go there! Jim Fisher North Alabama Cherokee 180

Response:

Or, if the return date is not essential, then I figure spending a few extra days at the destination won’t be so bad.

That would suck being trapped in Key West… One thing to consider is that central/south FL have very distinct wet and dry seasons.   The dry season is beginning about now and will reach it’s peak during January.  It hardly ever rains during that time, but if a "cold" front makes it that far south it can get VERY windy. tim PP-ASEL

Response:

Jim, The question I always ask myself when confronted with conditions like this is "how critical is it that I get back on the day I plan to return."   If I don’t have any latitude and absolutely need to be home then I’ll scrub the flight or resign myself to possibly having to return home commercially and return later to pick up the plane. Or, if the return date is not essential, then I figure spending a few extra days at the destination won’t be so bad. It’s not unusual for me to make a final decision on the morning of the outbound flight based upon that day’s weather and the future forcast. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Anyone wanna tackle this? I’m planning to go to Key West in a couple of days.  VFR.  Jimmy Buffet Parrothead convention. I’ll be flying from PDK (Atlanta) to EYW (Key West) departing Friday morning and coming back Sunday. My decision, right now, is to go. Just for the sake of discussion (and if anyone would like to take the time), what’s the weather/trip look like to you experienced fellers?  What sources of info do you base your assessment on? Up ’till now, all my x/c hops have been relatively short 300nm trips and weather during those times has been very predictable and easy to understand. This time, though, I’m looking at a wandering jet stream and a big, nasty, slooooow moving front that bisects the USA.  Then we have some sorta cloud cover in the Gulf that’s moving towards the Florida panhandle. Oh, and yeah, yeah, I’m studying for the instrument exam so don’t go there! Jim Fisher North Alabama Cherokee 180

Response:

Question:

My limited salt water flyfishing led to being bitten by a shark.  Vinnie and I were casting for perch from some tidal rocks at the James V. Fitzgerald wildlife preserve just south of Pacifica in Northern California.  It was an extra low tide and we were having moderate success.  We also had a bait rod set up and hooked a nice leopard shark on a strip of squid.  I took the hint and tied on a large white streamer of Vinnie’s design.  It worked and I was into a 4 foot leopard shark – a very nice leopard shark indeed.  It was a long, dogged fight that drew the attention of a group of people who were enjoying the tide pools.  As I landed the beautiful fish we were surrounded by onlookers.  I intended to keep the fish in the water and slip the hook out, but several people were asking for a look.  Here’s where I’m grateful for thick neoprene.  Now a leopard shark has relatively small teeth.  We’re not talking great white, mako or even blue shark here, but they do have teeth, so when I lifted the shark by the tail for my "audience" and he swiftly swung right up and onto my thigh, well I was a bit suprised.  The fish bit right into my upper thigh and proceeded to get his pointy little teeth stuck like velcro in my waders.  Well it brought a gasp from the crowd and sincere laughter from Vinnie.  The waders now have a very distinct "jaws" shaped area of leakage, but the leg went unscathed.  Had I been in shorts and bare legs this could have been a lot more interesting. JE * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping.  Smart is Beautiful

Response:

Any time you step into saltwater you become a potential part of the food chain.

Response:

Jonnie, what color/pattern were your waders? also size? wet or dry? i’m planning a lil shark fishin myself….

Response:

Interesting story.  I was expecting  something worse, as there are MUCH bigger sharks that roam the Northern California coast…… —Muskie Before you buy.

Response:

Question:

Can anyone recommend a good area to fish in the Myrtle Beach (Indian Wells) area. I’ll be down there the end of April. Last time I was down there I didn’t do any fishing but it seemed like access would be a problem to some promising looking areas. Thanks… Bill

Response:

William, I’ve been gone from there since ‘92 and really don’t know what is now part of some monsterous resort but I used to access the salt marshes at Little River and down towards Murrells Inlet, Pauley’s, and Georgetown. at that time I did not fly fish at that time but when the tide was running right, usually had a good shot at redfish. There is a state park in Murrells Inlet which gave good access to the ocean if surf fishing is in your cards. Wayne – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can anyone recommend a good area to fish in the Myrtle Beach (Indian Wells) area. I’ll be down there the end of April. Last time I was down there I didn’t do any fishing but it seemed like access would be a problem to some promising looking areas. Thanks… Bill

Response:

Thanks Wayne…Bill

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – William, I’ve been gone from there since ‘92 and really don’t know what is now part of some monsterous resort but I used to access the salt marshes at Little River and down towards Murrells Inlet, Pauley’s, and Georgetown. at that time I did not fly fish at that time but when the tide was running right, usually had a good shot at redfish. There is a state park in Murrells Inlet which gave good access to the ocean if surf fishing is in your cards. Wayne Can anyone recommend a good area to fish in the Myrtle Beach (Indian Wells) area. I’ll be down there the end of April. Last time I was down there I didn’t do any fishing but it seemed like access would be a problem to some promising looking areas. Thanks… Bill

Response:

Question:

I’m looking for a description of the fishing itself.  I only ask this because you said I don’t need pay $ for a guide on my first day. Additionally, I’ve never fished the Madison River.  

Might not be so bad.  The guy is providing a boat and you will get to cover a lot of water.  You can come back on your own later and fish the spots that appeal to you (unless of course access is limited). Mu

Response:

Ah, the B-52s. I miss them no matter where I am. Great rock and roll dance music!

I was talking about the shot B-52 not the music.  I’m a blue grass man.  I had no idea that there was a band called the B-52. Vern

Response:

Ah, the B-52s. I miss them no matter where I am. Great rock and roll dance music! I was talking about the shot B-52 not the music.  I’m a blue grass man.  I had no idea that there was a band called the B-52.

I knew you weren’t referring to the band, Vern ;^)

Response:

 In fact, you can have seperate quarters away from the likes of Fortenberry, Waldo, Tripper, Wayno, and Jeffy Miller.  These types will corrupt you.

        you eat one little… wayno

Response:

I did not know they had been shot ! TL MC "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Yeah, and they all copied their name from the famous USAF droopy-winged B-52, many motored sumbitch that could carry enough bombs to drop from here to there.  We fondly called it the BUF, ie: Big Ugly F*cker.  I’ve been retired now for *30* years and that big sucker is still flying in the AF inventory.  It’s gonna outlast me fer sure. Frank Church Elkhart, IN USAF RETIRED – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ah, the B-52s. I miss them no matter where I am. Great rock and roll dance music! I was talking about the shot B-52 not the music.  I’m a blue grass man.  I had no idea that there was a band called the B-52. Vern

Response:

Yeah, and they all copied their name from the famous USAF droopy-winged B-52, many motored sumbitch that could carry enough bombs to drop from here to there.  We fondly called it the BUF, ie: Big Ugly F*cker.  I’ve been retired now for *30* years and that big sucker is still flying in the AF inventory.  It’s gonna outlast me fer sure.

I grew up in Wichita watching those bad boys fly around at Boeing and McConnell (my dad worked on them at Boeing). Awesome plane. — Charlie…

Response:

Frank Church writes: Yeah, and they all copied their name from the famous USAF droopy-winged B-52, many motored sumbitch that could carry enough bombs to drop from here to there.  We fondly called it the BUF, ie: Big Ugly F*cker.  I’ve been retired now for *30* years and that big sucker is still flying in the AF inventory.  It’s gonna outlast me fer sure.

Frank, I used to live within shouting distance of Westover AFB.  I can remember the B-47s taking off and landing.  But then came those bigger BUFs, the B-52 Speaking of droopy wings — the U-2 wasn’t exactly a stubby winged aircraft. One scared the hell out of me in Japan, landing without power, gliding about 100 feet off the ground, as I walked to work.  All I saw was a giant shadow whisking over me.  It was going into Atsugi Naval Air Station on the other side of the rice paddies. OBROFF:  There is probably still room for the Maine Clave next September. Great fishing, great food, great friends.  Consider it.  Fourteen attending so far. Dave L.

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I grew up in Wichita watching those bad boys fly around at Boeing and McConnell (my dad worked on them at Boeing). Awesome plane.

B-52’s flew in and out of Hanscom Field in the town I grew up in, to get outfitted with the latest black boxes that the Charles Stark Draper and Mitre Labs folks cooked up over there. Flight path to the only runway that’d take those big mf’s went right over our house, but that wasn’t close enough for me and my friends, so we’d ride our bikes out to the perimeter fence at the end of the safety zone and watch them big bastids swoop in and out. Awesome. It’s a miracle I can still hear anything… /daytripper

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of the safety zone and watch them big bastids swoop in and out. Awesome.

I saw one take off back in the 70s that must have been using water injectors and the whole deal; I don’t know what his angle of climb was but I was looking for the CONELRAD station on my dial<g. — Charlie…

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Awesome.

"…fryin’ chickens in the barnyard!" General "Buck" Turgidson

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<Snipped tribute to B-52’s & U-2’s.

Dave Years ago I used to work in the Oklahoma Panhandle which is pretty sparsely populated.  Unknown to me was the fact that there was a flyway for low altitude bombing runs that ran from Clayton, NM to somewhere in western OK.  I was driving down some dirt road trying to find a farmhouse when about 10 B-52’s flew over about 1,000 feet or less off the ground and at full bore.  These guys came one right after the other and just after you lost your  hearing , you could still feel to car and ground vibrate.  The F-111’s that came after them sounded like learjets.  This was when I started carrying toilet paper in my car.  You never know. DP

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I did not know they had been shot !

The planes? They were shot _at_, but they got out unscathed. Opt out == cop-out. What’s so hard to understand?

Response:

 I was driving down some dirt road trying to find a farmhouse when about 10 B-52’s flew over about 1,000 feet or less off the ground and at full bore.  

The early B52’s had the tail gunner actually in the tail. When they modified the plane for low altitude operations they had to move the position to the flight deck after they almost killed one or two in test flights. — Charlie…

Response:

Yesterday I was searching the Internet for a guide in Ennis, Montana for the western conclave.  I thought it would be fun to pay for a day with a guide to familiarize me with the area before doing it alone.  I couldn’t find any in the Ennis area.  Yea, a few in Montana just not in the Ennis area. While in the middle of searching and getting discouraged the man in the brown truck knocked on my door. Remember the fly rod that had the tip snapped off in the car door?  Some suggested I contact the company and see if they would replace it.  I followed your suggestion and sent it off.  The UPS man brought it back yesterday.  Well, I thought he brought it back.  However, when I opened the box it was a completely different rod.  It was a nice and new rod without the river slime on the cork handle.  Cool! The UPS man asked me what it was and I told him the story.  I also told him that I’m going to Montana in July for a fly-fishing conclave.  I also told him that I was searching the Internet for a guide for a guide but couldn’t find one. He replied, "I don’t know what part of Montana your going.  But, if it’s near Ennis, my father in-law is a guide." I almost started laughing.  "Ennis!  That’s where were going," I said. He then informed me that his father in-law is currently in Las Vegas on vacation. What are the odds? To make a long story a little shorter, I talked to his father in-law.  His name is Bob Cleverley.  He’s currently retired but used to be a HS football coach.  He’s been a guide on the Madison River for over 15 years.  I think he said 17 years but not certain.  He has owned a fly shop in the past. However, running the shop, his guide service, and teaching at the local HS was to much for him so he got rid of the fly shop.  Now he’s retired.  How nice for him. Now back to the guide service, it’s a flat fee of $275 which includes transportation, a full day of fly-fishing, over 20 miles floating on the Madison in a 17 foot fiberglass drift-boat, food for the day, and all the local information a local lifetime fly-fisherman can provide.  The price is a flat fee per boat regardless of how many go.  However, only two fly-fisherman per boat.  He has three boats.  He also has other friends that provide guide service. I was hoping another ROFFian could split the price with me.  What I was thinking $150 each.  That would pay for the $275 fee and a $25 tip.  If the fishing is good I could tip him even more. I believe the western conclave is scheduled for July 21-31 in spite George’s desire for it to be around the 4th of July.  I will be taking 9 days off work.  Although, I’m driving and allowing 2 days up and 2 days back.  I have 2 options for my days off, the July18-26 or the July 25- Aug. 2.  That translates into my conclave days either July 21-24 or July 27-31.  I have to make that decision on the day my fly-fishing partner can take the guide service. Here it is, either a guide service on July 21 or July 27.  If you are interested on sharing a trip with me post it or send me an e-mail. Additionally, let me know what day is best for you.  I will schedule the trip.  I don’t have to put a deposit down at this point.  However, after the first of July if I need to cancel there is a $100 cancellation fee. Again, Bob Cleverley has three boats and can get more if needed.  The more ROFFians the better. Vern

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Vern writes:

(lil snip) Since I’ve never been to a conclave before I don’t really know what goes on other than breakfast preparation in one’s BVDs, midnight fishing trips while hanging onto a wooden love, sleeping-in while others post to ROFF on their notebooks, lots of drinking and a lot more drinking, rowdy conversations, and really good fishing.  Can you please provide a standard description of a ROFF conclave so I know what to expect?  Warren’s not going to be the guide all ten day is he?

Vern, not to worry.  At an conclave, you can do just about as you please.  The organizers will have scouted out places to fish and will direct you to such places and perhaps even guide you seperately. There will probably be folks at the Western Clave who have fished those waters and they will help Warren in fishing assignments and guiding.  The main thing of any clave is to have fun fishing with buddies/friends, regardless how you met them.  The internet claves I have attended so far have been filled with juvenile antics, much joking, swearing, hard-assing, by a bunch of educated serious men on their way to go fly fishing. Stories about one’s bvds and night fishing etc. are bound to occur.  There will be more stories from the Western Clave and the Spring Fling for that matter. No one is forcing you to drink or smoke or stay up late. In fact, you can have seperate quarters away from the likes of Fortenberry, Waldo, Tripper, Wayno, and Jeffy Miller.  These types will corrupt you.  You could  hang around with Charlie Choc – go to bed early, wake up late, go fishing.  <g As I understand it, you would like to get to Ennis a day or so early and "scout" the place out, possibly even hire a guide for a day.  Arriving early and checking things out is ok, but I am sure Warren and the rest of the western roffians would be more than willing to help. Main thought here, Vern, is:  don’t worry about it.  You will be with friends. They may hard-ass ya, and joke with ya, but they love ya and will make sure you have a great time. I hope to fish with you.  I will have my grand-sons (15 and 16) with me. Dave L.

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Since I’ve never been to a conclave before I don’t really know what goes on other than breakfast preparation in one’s BVDs, midnight fishing trips while hanging onto a wooden love, sleeping-in while others post to ROFF on their notebooks, lots of drinking and a lot more drinking, rowdy conversations, and really good fishing.  Can you please provide a standard description of a ROFF conclave so I know what to expect?

Given your opening paragraph, that’d be redundant. You nailed it! Warren’s not going to be the guide all ten day is he?

There should be at least a few people that have fished that area to allow the group to break up into smaller units. Nobody’s gonna want to fish the Madison for the entire duration – there are many other rivers to fish within 2 or 3 hours of Ennis. I should mention that I gave up alcohol and cigars around 3 to 4 years ago. I miss them at times, but I made a commitment and I can’t afford to break it.  If I do, I don’t think I could stop again.  I think I miss the cigars more than I do the B-52s, especially at the stream.

Ah, the B-52s. I miss them no matter where I am. Great rock and roll dance music! So, whatever description you provide, there’s no need to tempt me with explanations of liquid refreshment.

Normally I’d torture you by noting that you’re surely doomed to a week of depravity, moral turpitude, and Xtreme Liver Abuse. However, I’ll go easy on you and note that Le Duc Du Chocolate has escaped unscathed – repeatedly – with his facilities intact and his morals unmolested. Despite repeated attempts to torpedo same. I’m looking for a description of the fishing itself.  I only ask this because you said I don’t need pay $ for a guide on my first day. Additionally, I’ve never fished the Madison River.  I don’t know what to expect.  If others that have fished the Madison would be kind enough to describe what kind of river it is, I would be much appreciated.

The upper reaches – assuming the river below the Hebgen Lake hasn’t changed much – is a short set of small braids winding through the pucker brush. Short rod fishing works best there. These collect into a modest flow for about a mile if memory serves, then there’s a broad stretch (lake-ish) a few miles long – not really fishable on foot iirc – until you get below Rock Creek. Then you have about 10 miles of fishable water down to Kirby Ranch. From there down to Varney (about 25 miles I think) and beyond the river becomes broader and more boisterous – depending on how much water is coming down through a whole host of creeks – and the best (or at least easiest) fishing is from a drift boat. I’ve done the stretch from Kirby Ranch to the Varney bridge a few times in my life and caught some prodigiously large trout and white fish. There were lots of places to stop the boat and get out and wade gravel bars and cast to wonderful holes. The biggest trout I’ve ever hooked and lost was in the middle of that stretch. There was good fishing on foot along a lot of the river the last time I was out there – but that was before people started building goddamned houses along the banks and posting it, and of course the whirling disease has probably changed what’s in the river – so I’ll have to let others bring me up to date. But again, that’s just one river – and there are a handful of famous streams within 3 hours or so of Ennis. If this post doesn’t make much sense, it’s because I’m falling asleep after a long day.  It’s now 12:30 in Las Vegas.  So, please forgive any errors.

Wimp! It’s now 5:54 in Massachusetts and I’ve been up all night getting a newsletter published. Forget sleepin’ – it’d only make me feel even worse – so it’s direct-injected caffeine for me today! /daytripper (I’m getting too old for this shit!)

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speaking of the western clave, where the hell is Warren?

He’s doing fine. I got an email from him a few days ago. Everything is on track for the Western Clave. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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You don’t need to pay hard-earned money for guide, Vern, Warren’s the guide. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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Since I’ve never been to a conclave before I don’t really know what goes on other than breakfast preparation in one’s BVDs, midnight fishing trips while hanging onto a wooden love, sleeping-in while others post to ROFF on their notebooks, lots of drinking and a lot more drinking, rowdy conversations, and really good fishing.  Can you please provide a standard description of a ROFF conclave so I know what to expect?  Warren’s not going to be the guide all ten day is he? I should mention that I gave up alcohol and cigars around 3 to 4 years ago. I miss them at times, but I made a commitment and I can’t afford to break it.  If I do, I don’t think I could stop again.  I think I miss the cigars more than I do the B-52s, especially at the stream.  So, whatever description you provide, there’s no need to tempt me with explanations of liquid refreshment. I’m looking for a description of the fishing itself.  I only ask this because you said I don’t need pay $ for a guide on my first day. Additionally, I’ve never fished the Madison River.  I don’t know what to expect.  If others that have fished the Madison would be kind enough to describe what kind of river it is, I would be much appreciated. If this post doesn’t make much sense, it’s because I’m falling asleep after a long day.  It’s now 12:30 in Las Vegas.  So, please forgive any errors. Vern – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You don’t need to pay hard-earned money for guide, Vern, Warren’s the guide. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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Probably sick of George dominating the news group. Big Dale

Response:

Probably sick of George dominating the news group. Big Dale

Big D, Have you been getting any ‘gills this winter? There’s a nice lake up here that has bass and gills in it. It also has yours and my name on it one afternoon in May. Stay loose big guy, Walt — Ezflyfish.com:  http://www.ezflyfish.com For Book & Print Auctions: http://www.amazon.com/seller/mariebooks Blue Ridge Book Gallery: http://www.bibliofind.com/cgi-bin/texis.exe/s/search/dhome.html?id=33… P.O. Box 5112, Banner Elk, NC 28604

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speaking of the western clave, where the hell is Warren? — Levi Always do sober what you said you’d do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut. –Ernest Hemingway

According to Dave L. he’s been busy with hunting and his work. Darin

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speaking of the western clave, where the hell is Warren? — Levi Always do sober what you said you’d do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut. –Ernest Hemingway

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Darin Minor writes: speaking of the western clave, where the hell is Warren? — Levi Always do sober what you said you’d do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut. –Ernest Hemingway According to Dave L. he’s been busy with hunting and his work. Darin

Yeah, but that was about two weeks ago that I heard from him.   Dave L.

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Question:

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4K Download

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Doesn’t work for me. — <*))))< Paul Phillips Director of Operations Fintastic Fish Mounts http://www.fintastic.com/

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Is there any chance you could post your web page on the actual web? This is the Usenet. Sheesh! : <HTML : <head : <titleConsumer Outdoors</title : <meta name=3D"author" content=3D"Garrie McDonald" <snipped a bunch of html crap —                        http://members.tripod.com/~trunculo/index

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Question:

I live in Manhattan, and don’t have a car.  I want to take the train to Kensico Resevoir.  Does anyone know where I can fish this resevoir from the bank? Also, do you know other places I can fly Fish via public transportaion? Thanks, Randy Kadish

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I live in Manhattan, and don’t have a car.  I want to take the train to Kensico Resevoir.  Does anyone know where I can fish this resevoir from the bank? Also, do you know other places I can fly Fish via public transportaion? Thanks, Randy Kadish

Randy – I have absolutely no idea, but I am very interested in seeing any replies – hope you get some.  Public transportation to flyfishin – real dedication.  What about packing up a float tube to take to the lake?  Might be doable. mark Faulkner

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Don’t know about public tranportation( probably railroad to neareat town and then taxi) However, I believe in addition to your license you’ll need a reservoir permit. They’re available from one of the NYC gov’t offices in Mahattan. You used to need some photos and it was free and good forever. May not be true now. If you can’t find the office(dept of water?) call urban Anler , Capitol tackle oe or Orvis, someone wil have the info They may even know a way to get there with public transit. gerry

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I believe in addition to your license you’ll need a reservoir permit. They’re available from one of the NYC gov’t offices in Mahattan. You used to need some photos and it was free and good forever. May not be true now. gerry

It is not true now. NYC watershed permits no longer require a photo and are good for five years.  As for public transportation to good fly fishing, it is definitely possible. I can think of two prime spots near train stations on Metro North’s Harlem line.

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I can think of the same places along the Metro North Hudson line. Better get Jim Capposella’s book, "Good Fishing Within 50 Miles of New York City" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I live in Manhattan, and don’t have a car.  I want to take the train to Kensico Resevoir.  Does anyone know where I can fish this resevoir from the bank? Also, do you know other places I can fly Fish via public transportaion? Thanks, Randy Kadish

Response:

Kensico, like most of the Croton Watershed reservoirs, is not easily fishable from shore because of steep dropoffs. Also, belly boats and the like are forbidden. In fact, there are a number of restrictions, rules etc. for fishing this water because it’s owned by NYC. You will need a special watershed permit, as well. Having said that, why not consider the connecting streams? The West Branch of the Croton, the Amawalk and, especially, the East Branch of the Croton offer fine fishing easily accessible from Metro-North. The Croton TU chapter published a very fine guide to the area some years ago and some of the local shops still carry it.

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If the Bedford Sportsman in Bedford, NY is still around , they may have those maps. gerry

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Go talk to Edwin Valentin at the Urban Angler in NYC.  Though not so often now, in the past he used to take the Metro North train all the time up to the East Branch of the Croton.  He’d get let off in Brewster, then either hop a cab or walk to the stream.

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – HEY, THANKS FOR THAT BIT OF INFO ON THE CHICKEN FEED.THOSE PEOPLE KNOW ALL THE TRICKS!WENT WADE FISHING THIS EVENING AND NAILED 2 NICE REDFISH,USING A D.O.A.SHRIMP.WAS HOPING FOR A SNOOK BUT NO SUCH LUCK.          I really feel for you. Fish in Lake Monro/St.Johns are nada. The waters too high inshore. I tried a bit yesterday but the wind was too high and water still within 6" of the breakwater. The reports are snook is off due to the muddy out run and winds. Oh well in about a month it should clear but then the monsoon season starts. Ain’t it a bunmmer to live so close to some of the best fishing in the world and it be off ?                                                           John Popp                                                        in Sanford Fl.

HEY TELL ME ABOUT IT!THE WEATHER HAS GOT EVERYBODY STIMIED.I FEEL SORRY FOR THE GUIDES WHO MAKE A LIVING OUT OF IT.LIKE I SAID I WAS WADING THE OTHER DAY WHEN I CAUGHT THOSE REDS.I OWN A BOAT BUT IT HASN’T BEEN IN THE WATER IN 2 MONTHS!AND WE’RE HAVING SOME GOOD TIDES RIGHT NOW.I LIVE ON A BARRIER ISLAND AND THE RAIN TODAY PUT A FOOT AND A HALF OF WATER IN THE STREETS.HAD A FRIEND OVER FROM SANFORD THIS PAST WEEKEND AND HE TOLD ME THAT THE WATER WAS WAY UP OVER THERE.OH WELL,IT CAN’T KEEP UP TO MUCH LONGER,BUT LIKE YOU SAID THEN WE GET THE SUMMER TIME DONT FLEECE CATCH& RELEASE                JON

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HEY, THANKS FOR THAT BIT OF INFO ON THE CHICKEN FEED.THOSE PEOPLE KNOW ALL THE TRICKS!WENT WADE FISHING THIS EVENING AND NAILED 2 NICE REDFISH,USING A D.O.A.SHRIMP.WAS HOPING FOR A SNOOK BUT NO SUCH LUCK.

         I really feel for you. Fish in Lake Monro/St.Johns are nada. The waters too high inshore. I tried a bit yesterday but the wind was too high and water still within 6" of the breakwater. The reports are snook is off due to the muddy out run and winds. Oh well in about a month it should clear but then the monsoon season starts. Ain’t it a bunmmer to live so close to some of the best fishing in the world and it be off ?                                                           John Popp                                                        in Sanford Fl.

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I GUESS I NEVER REALIZED THAT MULLET COULD TRAVEL THAT FAR UP A RIVER!I MEAN,I’VE SEEN THEM IN CRYSTAL RIVER BUT,THE RIVER IS SO CLOSE TO THE GULF.LIKE THE MANATEE WHERE I LIVE.(LIVE ON ANNA MARIA ISLAND)MULLET DO GO UP THE MANATEE YOU KNOW 5-7 MILES ,BUT ALL THE WAY TO LAKE MONROE!!THATS GOT TO BE OVER A HUNDRED MILES!I HAVE FISHED LAKE MONROE & LAKE JESSUP BEFORE,AND YES I DID CATCH A STINGRAY.I THOUGHT THAT STRANGE TOO.BUT NEVER HAVE I SEEN A MULLET.THE THEROY ON CATCHING THEM IS GOOD TOO.I’VE HEARD OF IT DONE THE SAME WAY OVER HERE BUT WITH DOUGH BALLS.BUT NEVER HAVE I SEEN MULLET IN A FEEDING FRENZY,AS YOU SO DESCRIBED.ROILING THE WATER.DO YOU HAVE A CAM-CORDER?I’VE SNICHED A FEW MULLET IN MY DAY AND I KNOW THE FIGHT THEY CAN PUT,ALLBEIT THEY WERE HOOKED IN VARIOUS SITES ON THE BODY.I COULD JUST IMAGINE ONE ON A                             JON

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I GUESS I NEVER REALIZED THAT MULLET COULD TRAVEL THAT FAR UP A RIVER!I MEAN,I’VE SEEN THEM IN CRYSTAL RIVER BUT,THE RIVER IS SO CLOSE TO THE GULF.LIKE THE MANATEE WHERE I LIVE.(LIVE ON ANNA MARIA ISLAND)MULLET DO GO UP THE MANATEE YOU KNOW 5-7 MILES ,BUT ALL THE WAY TO LAKE MONROE!!THATS GOT TO BE OVER A HUNDRED MILES!I HAVE FISHED LAKE MONROE & LAKE JESSUP BEFORE,AND YES I DID CATCH A STINGRAY.I THOUGHT THAT STRANGE TOO.BUT NEVER HAVE I SEEN A MULLET.THE THEROY ON CATCHING THEM IS GOOD TOO.I’VE HEARD OF IT DONE THE SAME WAY OVER HERE BUT WITH DOUGH BALLS.BUT NEVER HAVE I SEEN MULLET IN A FEEDING FRENZY,AS YOU SO DESCRIBED.ROILING THE WATER.DO YOU HAVE A CAM-CORDER?I’VE SNICHED A FEW MULLET IN MY DAY AND I KNOW THE FIGHT THEY CAN PUT,ALLBEIT THEY WERE HOOKED IN VARIOUS SITES ON THE BODY.I COULD JUST IMAGINE ONE ON A                             JON

      No, I’ve never seen mullet in Monro either but Rodman spillway is 70 miles north, closer to Palatka which is about midway between Jacksonville and Sanford and is brackish tidewater. Try the chiken feed and you’ll see the difference, dough balls are larger and have a different sink rate other than that I don’t know why but it happens. I picked it up from some older black people fishing with cane poles. I’m not much of a fly fisherman, just enjoy it and keep on trying. I am not by any means a purist, use baits and mini jigs when called for and am of the mind that the main idea is to catch fish and really enjoy playing all of them. I can enjoy hooking a croaker like some people go after bill fish.                                                       John Popp                                                     in Sanford Fl.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I GUESS I NEVER REALIZED THAT MULLET COULD TRAVEL THAT FAR UP A RIVER!I MEAN,I’VE SEEN THEM IN CRYSTAL RIVER BUT,THE RIVER IS SO CLOSE TO THE GULF.LIKE THE MANATEE WHERE I LIVE.(LIVE ON ANNA MARIA ISLAND)MULLET DO GO UP THE MANATEE YOU KNOW 5-7 MILES ,BUT ALL THE WAY TO LAKE MONROE!!THATS GOT TO BE OVER A HUNDRED MILES!I HAVE FISHED LAKE MONROE & LAKE JESSUP BEFORE,AND YES I DID CATCH A STINGRAY.I THOUGHT THAT STRANGE TOO.BUT NEVER HAVE I SEEN A MULLET.THE THEROY ON CATCHING THEM IS GOOD TOO.I’VE HEARD OF IT DONE THE SAME WAY OVER HERE BUT WITH DOUGH BALLS.BUT NEVER HAVE I SEEN MULLET IN A FEEDING FRENZY,AS YOU SO DESCRIBED.ROILING THE WATER.DO YOU HAVE A CAM-CORDER?I’VE SNICHED A FEW MULLET IN MY DAY AND I KNOW THE FIGHT THEY CAN PUT,ALLBEIT THEY WERE HOOKED IN VARIOUS SITES ON THE BODY.I COULD JUST IMAGINE ONE ON A                             JON       No, I’ve never seen mullet in Monro either but Rodman spillway is 70 miles north, closer to Palatka which is about midway between Jacksonville and Sanford and is brackish tidewater. Try the chiken feed and you’ll see the difference, dough balls are larger and have a different sink rate other than that I don’t know why but it happens. I picked it up from some older black people fishing with cane poles. I’m not much of a fly fisherman, just enjoy it and keep on trying. I am not by any means a purist, use baits and mini jigs when called for and am of the mind that the main idea is to catch fish and really enjoy playing all of them. I can enjoy hooking a croaker like some people go after bill fish.                                                       John Popp                                                     in Sanford Fl.

HEY, THANKS FOR THAT BIT OF INFO ON THE CHICKEN FEED.THOSE PEOPLE KNOW ALL THE TRICKS!WENT WADE FISHING THIS EVENING AND NAILED 2 NICE REDFISH,USING A D.O.A.SHRIMP.WAS HOPING FOR A SNOOK BUT NO SUCH LUCK.

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Question:

I see you have some responses from folks talking about chest waders, not hip waders.  The hip boots are not so snug as neoprene and they just go up far enough to make you think you can wade in a shallow stream, then after a few steps about knee deep you step six inches deeper and suddenly have a water parachute strapped onto each leg. Damn right these things can kill you if you’re in heavy water when this

happens. You’re right, Mark. In my lexicon, "hip waders" end at a belt around the waist, while "hip boots" (which I gather is the actual topic) end around mid-thigh, and certainly can’t be "belted"… The above perspective may be due to being 6′5" tall: they don’t make "hip boots" that come to *my* hips, that’s for sure ;^) The only time I wear "hip boots" is when launching or reloading my boat – I’d wet-wade before I’d ever use a pair of those for fishing… Cheers! /dave <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< < Digital Equipment Corp.               Alpha Server Engineering < < Parker Street Campus                      Maynard, Massachusetts < < !!NOTE: Remove the "XX" from my address to respond by email!!  < <<<<<<<<<<<<<< AMA 548313 <<<<<<<<<<<<<< Disclaimer: Opinion and content is mine alone, and unlikely to be                     shared by my employer, etc…

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I see you have some responses from folks talking about chest waders, not The only time I wear "hip boots" is when launching or reloading my boat – I’d wet-wade before I’d ever use a pair of those for fishing… Cheers! /dave

Hi Dave, I’ve been watching this thread and for the most part agree about hip boats if you’re talking bigger water. They ARE no fun to swim in (voice of experience), but you’re not typically in chest deep water if you do go down when wearing hip boots.  Unless you oopsy and find a deep hole because you weren’t probing with your wading staff, or get washed into deep water you can usually get stood up again without too much problem.   But! When fishing very fast and rough water where I’m not quite crazy enough to wade over knee deep, or fishing small and/or well known streams, I much prefer "hip boots".  I can roll them down to get some air to vital parts, and they are much less restrictive (to me).  Scratching is easier too. I guess I’m a wuss, ’cause if I’m wading water that I know has sections over my head, or I don’t know well, I get real nervous about wading in very deep…. War story……. The last time I went down with hip boots the water was only about 30" deep.  I drug a hand to keep my head upstream, was washed into a deeper hole, stood up, and walked out.  That walk might have been a little rushed, since it was November and the water was a bit cool. I wasn’t wearing a pfd since I know the river well and have fished it for thirty years.  It was no big drama, except the walk back to the truck was miserable. If it had been a strange stream, I’d have had a pfd on and floated to the next shallow stretch, or swam to shore.  In my chest waders. Steve

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FYI: I once read somewhere that Lee Wulff jumped off a bridge with waders, head first no less, to prove a point about waders filling with water. I can’t remember if they were hip or chest waders. Maybe someone else has come across this story.

No big deal for Lee…the man walked on water… — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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Hello folks, My name is Michael Drapack. I am a journalist for a consumer show on Canadian television. I know this may sound a little strange, but the medical examiner in the province of British Columbia has recently recorded three deaths caused by hip waders filling with water and drowning the person wearing them. Has anybody out there heard of a Thank you and sorry for the intrusion Michael Drapack

Michael, I saw a film of Lee Wulff diving off of a bridge with waders and no belt then swimming to shore in order to prove that waders filled with water won’t pull you under. Water weighs nothing in water. I’ve been toying with the idea of trying this out in a swimming pool sometime. My concern with neoprene waders is that they might float your legs too high in the water causing you to fight to keep your head high. Ron

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   About 5 years ago, a visiting fisherman ventured too far out off of Oregon Beach in Cotuit (Cape Cod) and disappeared. If I remember correctly, they found what was left of him a few weeks later. The accident was attributed to his lack of knowledge of the area, which is riddled with deep water holes, and the fact that he could not get out of his waders. It happens…

Well, as apparently "what was left of him" couldn’t answer whether the waders had anything to do with his disappearance, the waders may not actually have been a factor. We lose many swimmers (not wearing waders, obviously) from undertow along the New England coast than that. I’ve swamped in my waders in heavy water (eg: Rapid River, and the Andy below the Gage House pool) and never felt at additional risk from the waders. Wear a friggin’ belt – common sense at work, imho… Cheers! /dave <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< < Digital Equipment Corp.               Alpha Server Engineering < < Parker Street Campus                      Maynard, Massachusetts < < !!NOTE: Remove the "XX" from my address to respond by email!!  < <<<<<<<<<<<<<< AMA 548313 <<<<<<<<<<<<<< Disclaimer: Opinion and content is mine alone, and unlikely to be                     shared by my employer, etc…

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Is this discussion about panic or real danger ? If you fall in with hippers and panic…yer dead.   If you fall in with hippers and stay cool…yer alive. That’s what they tell you anyway…I dunno…. Once at a party a well intentioned but rather inebriated good friend pushed me into the deep end of the private pool.  I had on big hiking boots and levis. (Quite the pool-party-animal that I am….).  I honestly got really scared when I tried to swim but could not, sinking like a rock. On the bottom, I pushed off the bottom enough that I made it to the edge.  I’d have to think that most cases in rivers, streams and lakes, you could essentially do the same thing.  A big dropoff though ?  A man in Boulder reservoir died in hippers just this way a few years back.  Hippers in big water I think is very, very dangerous.  Not from filling with water, but because the boots themselves are more dense. TimW – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello folks, My name is Michael Drapack. I am a journalist for a consumer show on Canadian television. I know this may sound a little strange, but the medical examiner in the province of British Columbia has recently recorded three deaths caused by hip waders filling with water and drowning the person wearing them. Has anybody out there heard of a Thank you and sorry for the intrusion Michael Drapack Michael, I saw a film of Lee Wulff diving off of a bridge with waders and no belt then swimming to shore in order to prove that waders filled with water won’t pull you under. Water weighs nothing in water. I’ve been toying with the idea of trying this out in a swimming pool sometime. My concern with neoprene waders is that they might float your legs too high in the water causing you to fight to keep your head high. Ron

– TimW Halfordian Golfer

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Hmm, hip waders are dangerous, and significantly more so than chest waders. The Lee Wulff stunt was done with neoprene chest waders. Neoprene is lighter than water and will help you float. The problems with hip waders are that they fill very quickly and they open up “parachute style”. More often than not they are made of rubber, which does not float. I have been dragged away by a river both in chest neoprene waders and in rubber hip waders, and the hip waders accident was much much more scary, I thought I would have to slip off them. Hip waders often have a buckle on the side, so you can strap them to your belt. The fist thing I would do when I bougth a new pair of hip waders was to cut the damn thing off, so that, in case of emergency, it would be much easier to slip off them. This was suggested to my by the most experienced fisherman I know and by the owner of the shop I used to go to when I was in Italy. I have heard of enough accidents with hip waders back in Europe to consider them dangerous in large bodies of water.  In small bodies of water, though, they are definitely preferable, as they are much easier to get in and out of, IMHO. -Vittorio – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello folks, My name is Michael Drapack. I am a journalist for a consumer show on Canadian television. I know this may sound a little strange, but the medical examiner in the province of British Columbia has recently recorded three deaths caused by hip waders filling with water and drowning the person wearing them. Has anybody out there heard of a Thank you and sorry for the intrusion Michael Drapack Michael, I saw a film of Lee Wulff diving off of a bridge with waders and no belt then swimming to shore in order to prove that waders filled with water won’t pull you under. Water weighs nothing in water. I’ve been toying with the idea of trying this out in a swimming pool sometime. My concern with neoprene waders is that they might float your legs too high in the water causing you to fight to keep your head high. Ron

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I see you have some responses from folks talking about chest waders, not hip waders.  The hip boots are not so snug as neoprene and they just go up far enough to make you think you can wade in a shallow stream, then after a few steps about knee deep you step six inches deeper and suddenly have a water parachute strapped onto each leg. Damn right these things can kill you if you’re in heavy water when this happens. I don’t think there is a practical fishing use for these, maybe for landing fish when you are shorefishing but not for wading.  Even waist height waders make a big difference where it counts most because you can belt them. If you use hip waders you should get some lacy garters to go with them.   MarK Vinsel Hello folks, My name is Michael Drapack. I am a journalist for a consumer show on Canadian television. I know this may sound a little strange, but the medical examiner in the province of British Columbia has recently recorded three deaths caused by hip waders filling with water and drowning the person wearing them. Has anybody out there heard Thank you and sorry for the intrusion Michael Drapack

– http://www.lanminds.com/local/vinnie/gallery.html

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Hello folks, My name is Michael Drapack. I am a journalist for a consumer show on Canadian television. I know this may sound a little strange, but the medical examiner in the province of British Columbia has recently recorded three deaths caused by hip waders filling with water and drowning the person wearing them. Has anybody out there heard of a Thank you and sorry for the intrusion Michael Drapack

Michael,     About 5 years ago, a visiting fisherman ventured too far out off of Oregon Beach in Cotuit (Cape Cod) and disappeared. If I remember correctly, they found what was left of him a few weeks later. The accident was attributed to his lack of knowledge of the area, which is riddled with deep water holes, and the fact that he could not get out of his waders. It happens… — Tight lines and sharp hooks, Capt. Mark Poirier

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Hello folks, My name is Michael Drapack. I am a journalist for a consumer show on Canadian television. I know this may sound a little strange, but the medical examiner in the province of British Columbia has recently recorded three deaths caused by hip waders filling with water and drowning the person wearing them. Has anybody out there heard of a Thank you and sorry for the intrusion Michael Drapack

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Hello folks, My name is Michael Drapack. I am a journalist for a consumer show on Canadian television. I know this may sound a little strange, but the medical examiner in the province of British Columbia has recently recorded three deaths caused by hip waders filling with water and drowning the person wearing them. Has anybody out there heard Thank you and sorry for the intrusion Michael Drapack

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Hello folks, My name is Michael Drapack. I am a journalist for a consumer show on Canadian television. I know this may sound a little strange, but the medical examiner in the province of British Columbia has recently recorded three deaths caused by hip waders filling with water and drowning the person wearing them. Has anybody out there heard of a Thank you and sorry for the intrusion Michael Drapack

Hi Michael I’ve not personally seen a death from hip waders but have over the years helped fly fishers who "went too far" while using hip waders on three occasions. One on the Madison River would have ended in a drown had a friend and I not been handy to pull the guy out of the water. With the full waders I don’t know if I could have pulled him out alone — the current and the full waders made for a very heavy load. I personally think hip waders are and accident waiting to happen but I’m sure there are many who would not agree. — Tight Lines ….. Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products On line catalog – tips & tricks at: http://www.btsflyfishing.com

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Hello folks, My name is Michael Drapack. I am a journalist for a consumer show on Canadian television. I know this may sound a little strange, but the medical examiner in the province of British Columbia has recently recorded three deaths caused by hip waders filling with water and drowning the person wearing them. Has anybody out there heard of a Thank you and sorry for the intrusion Michael Drapack

FYI: I once read somewhere that Lee Wulff jumped off a bridge with waders, head first no less, to prove a point about waders filling with water. I can’t remember if they were hip or chest waders. Maybe someone else has come across this story. B.

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Hello folks, My name is Michael Drapack. I am a journalist for a consumer show on Canadian television. I know this may sound a little strange, but the medical examiner in the province of British Columbia has recently recorded three deaths caused by hip waders filling with water and drowning the person wearing them. Has anybody out there heard of a Thank you and sorry for the intrusion Michael Drapack

This is a regular, tho I’m glad to say, infrequent occurence during the fishing season in Scotland. It is wholly unnecessary because many anglers panic when they "go over the top" and do not know how to react (although sometimes drowning results from a secondary factor like heart attact from the shock as happened on the Spey last year). If you do fall in the procedure is to get on your back, keep your feet well up and pointing downstream (your feet will hit the rocks rather than your head) and paddle with your hands towards the shallow water. The late Hugh Falkus of Cumbria and flyfisher extrordinaire made an excellent video of this when he was about, I think, 70 years old, demonstrating in person. The demonstration was also shown on one the TV angling programmes over here a few years back. Hope this helps – Ian — Ian McCowen – Polwarth Manse, Greenlaw, Berwickshire TD10 6YR SCOTLAND (fine old books on Shooting, Fishing, Natural History bought & sold)

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Question:

I’m taking a Troop of Boy Scouts to Canada this July. To preserve my sanity I’m taking my fly rig. Anybody got some hot tips on the best flys and equipment to use? also if you have any info on what the boys should spin fish with we would appreciate it.  Thanks norm

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I’m taking a Troop of Boy Scouts to Canada this July. To preserve my sanity I’m taking my fly rig. Anybody got some hot tips on the best flys and equipment to use? also if you have any info on what the boys should spin fish with we would appreciate it.  Thanks norm

 In case no one told you, Canada is a little bit bigger than the U.S.A and spans the continient from Nova Scotia on the Atlantic to British Columbia on the Pacific ;^) But seriously, there is lots of great fly fishing all across the country.  I live in British Columbia and use minnow imitations for sea run cutthroat trout in coastal waters,  colourful flys for summer steel head in coastal streams, and traditional insect patterns for lakes and streams in the interior of the Province.

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 In case no one told you, Canada is a little bit bigger than the U.S.A and spans the continient from Nova Scotia on the Atlantic to British Columbia on the Pacific ;^)

Jeez …. I thought since ‘49 it started at Newfoundland on the east coast. I hope the NF and Labrador outfitters don’t read your posting!

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 In case no one told you, Canada is a little bit bigger than the U.S.A and spans the continient from Nova Scotia on the Atlantic to British Columbia on the Pacific ;^) Jeez …. I thought since ‘49 it started at Newfoundland on the east coast. I hope the NF and Labrador outfitters don’t read your posting!

O.K. your right,  I was off by about 350 miles!  Still a really huge country. But while were on the subject of Newfoundland – do you know why the Newfy was happy to hear that Quebec was leaving Canada……because the drive to Toronto would be so much closer!

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I’m taking a Troop of Boy Scouts to Canada this July. To preserve my sanity I’m taking my fly rig. Anybody got some hot tips on the best flys and equipment to use? also if you have any info on what the boys should spin fish with we would appreciate it.  Thanks norm

Hi, Canada is a BIG country, your choice of flies and gear will depend on where you are going. If you are interested in Novca SAcotia, I can help you out and would be more than pleased to do something with you even. Our specialty is teaching flyfishing to youngsters (16 years experience and nationally certified coaching level one). If you are interested in NS, drop me a line, even if you are coming here and don’t want them to flyfish, I think I could probably still help you out ! Tight Lines !00 Little Harbour Road, Lockeport Nova Scotia Canada  B0T 1L0 ph/fax 902-656-3329

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Never was too good a Geography, even in the good ole USA. I should have said that I was going to the Boundary Waters above Minn. Maybe I’ll come out and try the minnows pattern like you suggest. Any tips a little further east of BC? Norm

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:  In case no one told you, Canada is a little bit bigger than the U.S.A and spans the continient from : Nova Scotia on the Atlantic to British Columbia on the Pacific ;^) : Jeez …. : I thought since ‘49 it started at Newfoundland on the east coast. : I hope the NF and Labrador outfitters don’t read your posting! Thanks Don. Sorry I couldn’t make your conference. Still hoping to wangle a means of getting over to fish the Miramichi and maybe even talk about multimedia Jack  – Newfoundland and Labrador Science  and Technology Advisory Council                Tel     (709) 738-3400 114 Empire Ave., St. John’s, NF    A1B 1C7      Fax     (709) 738-3276

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m taking a Troop of Boy Scouts to Canada this July. To preserve my sanity I’m taking my fly rig. Anybody got some hot tips on the best flys and equipment to use? also if you have any info on what the boys should spin fish with we would appreciate it.  Thanks norm In case no one told you, Canada is a little bit bigger than the U.S.A and spans the continient from Nova Scotia on the Atlantic to British Columbia on the Pacific ;^) But seriously, there is lots of great fly fishing all across the country.  I live in British Columbia and use minnow imitations for sea run cutthroat trout in coastal waters,  colourful flys for summer steel head in coastal streams, and traditional insect patterns for lakes and streams in the interior of the Province.

Just to clarify: Canada Spans from Newfoundland to British Columbia, Not Nova Scotia to British Columbia,  There are about 500000 Newfoundlanders who don’t like being forgotten. Thanks Chris Newfoundland, Canada

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