Question:

I’m probably breaking some copywright law, but from the Lewiston ID Tribune but.. George Eugene (Billis) Gehrke, an avid fly fisherman, inventor and writer, passed away Sunday Dec. 8, 2002, at his Asotin home. He was 68. He was born July 28, 1934, in Toledo, Ohio. Graduating from Anthony Wayne High School in 1954, he was the first in his class to go directly into the Air Force Cadet Program. After his tour with the Air Force, he married the love of his life, Gladys Gray, Sept. 6, 1958, in Toledo. He often told others how lucky he was to have her in his life and how much he loved her. George owned a fly fishing company and manufactured its products since 1973. He is survived by his wife, Gladys, at the Asotin home; three sons, Robert of Panama City, Fla., Stuart of Trout Creek, Colo., and Gregory of Asotin; three daughters, Rosemary Tafoya of Asotin, Tracy Castaneda of Houston and Georgia Gehrke of Kapaa, Hawaii. He is also survived by a sister, Karol Ann of Archie, Mo.; brothers, Ernest Gehrke and John Billis of Ohio; uncle C.M. Kurczak of Baton Rouge, La.; several nieces and nephews; 11 grandchildren; and many, many friends. A memorial service will be held at 1 p.m. Thursday at the family home at Asotin. Vassar-Rawls Funeral Home of Lewiston is in charge of arrangements.

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Thanks Wayne, for passing that along. Rest in Peace, George. bruce h

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Question:

Blow Me! Op

I think I’ll pass. Willi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s interesting to me how ROFF has redefined the word "whine." Roff defines "whine" as a criticism of Roff. No other posts, criticisms, arguments etc. are ever labelled as "whining". Mark, I personally think that what you say is legitimate. It’s more on topic than most posts and IMO, your observation is accurate. If things run true to form, your post will start a flame war and unfortunately and ironically it will now be your turn to get flamed. Stay Tough Willi

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m a pretty new subscriber to this newsgroup, and I’ve already managed to have my fill of a couple characters on here. One guy posts something, and one or two others respond with only assanine, sophomoric bullshit. If you want to flame each other, and play your childish little games, do so through email. I don’t know why the hell a couple of you feel the compelling need to act like a jackass with another member, and I really don’t give a damn. Grow up and act like adults. You guys know who I’m talking about, and the people know who they are. The constant little remarks and jabs get sick of reading. It’s bad enough that one has to wade through spam on these newsgroups, but then to have members flaming others at every little chance they get is stupid. If you really can’t reply to someone with at least a bit of civilness, don’t bother replying at all. Saves everyone else the time wasted on adding you to a killfile. To everyone else on here: Thanks for being adults. Tight lines.

Yeah.  <puffing up chest You guys should be ashamed of yourselves.  Messing up a perfectly good newsgroup so that Mr. McKenzie can’t enjoy it. Oh wait a minute.   On second thought… Fuckthat whining, bowlegged, shit-eating, cock-guzzling, limp-dicked, ass-munching, no-tooth-having,  fart-knocking, scotch-spilling, llama-fucking, foreskin-gobbling, chickenshit, redneck, po-dunk, meshugga, doodoo head. Joshua

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If you don’t like what some people post, killfile them and don’t read them, don’t freakin’ whine.  Pathetic. Is some other dope gonna post another silly whine?

It’s interesting to me how ROFF has redefined the word "whine." Roff defines "whine" as a criticism of Roff. No other posts, criticisms, arguments etc. are ever labelled as "whining". Mark, I personally think that what you say is legitimate. It’s more on topic than most posts and IMO, your observation is accurate. If things run true to form, your post will start a flame war and unfortunately and ironically it will now be your turn to get flamed. Stay Tough Willi

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On second thought… (some expressions of disapproval snipped)

"no-tooth-having"?  Kind of rough on the new guy aren’t you?  :) JR

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I’m a pretty new subscriber to this newsgroup, and I’ve already managed to have my fill of a couple characters on here.

        well, i have managed to have my fill of you and i have posted here for at least six years.         this is not a place for children, wimps, fools, pig-headed twits, paranoid schizos, hypocrites, illiterates, dimwits, cowards, bullies, and chiefly, whiners.         this place is darwinian.  i suspect your life span could be measured in moments. wayno

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I *live* for threads like the one you’ve opened. If only killfiles had expiration dates and HWMNBM would post more, the fun would never stop!

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  I have been a lurker/participator of the NG for over a year.  More lurker than participator however one thing that I have noticed is if you ask a serious question you will get serious, honest and best of all excellent responses. There is a lot of experience at this NG. If you ask a hypothetical question you can start a thread that produces excellent theories and good arguments for each theory. If you ask a bullshit question or state an opinion.  Well you know what they say, opinions are like assholes, every one has a least one and this group has a lot.   The bottom line is you can tell a flame response by the first sentence. If you don’t want to read it, just click next. —

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m a pretty new subscriber to this newsgroup, and I’ve already managed to have my fill of a couple characters on here. One guy posts something, and one or two others respond with only assanine, sophomoric bullshit. If you want to flame each other, and play your childish little games, do so through email. I don’t know why the hell a couple of you feel the compelling need to act like a jackass with another member, and I really don’t give a damn. Grow up and act like adults. You guys know who I’m talking about, and the people know who they are. The constant little remarks and jabs get sick of reading. It’s bad enough that one has to wade through spam on these newsgroups, but then to have members flaming others at every little chance they get is stupid. If you really can’t reply to someone with at least a bit of civilness, don’t bother replying at all. Saves everyone else the time wasted on adding you to a killfile. To everyone else on here: Thanks for being adults. Tight lines.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you don’t like what some people post, killfile them and don’t read them, don’t freakin’ whine.  Pathetic. Is some other dope gonna post another silly whine? It’s interesting to me how ROFF has redefined the word "whine." Roff defines "whine" as a criticism of Roff. No other posts, criticisms, arguments etc. are ever labelled as "whining".

I disagree – I certainly wouldn’t flame someone who offered a legitimate opinion, expressed as such, about flames, etc.  But what possible difference can it make to those "unflamed?"  If 2, 12, or 30 people want to call _each other_ all sorts of things, and don’t target "civilians," why should the, er, non-combatants care?  Everyone is perfectly free to either read and enjoy/cringe, or ignore it, and unless they discuss it, no one will know what they do.  Therefore, I don’t see one person _telling_ others how to act as a legitimate criticism, I see it as a "power trip," or more accurately, whining because things aren’t the way the whiner wants them to be – "Waaa! _I_ don’t like this!  Change it now!"  Well, the participants seem to enjoy it, so why should they change to satisfy those who don’t even have to participate, or even see what bothers them?  Now, if someone simply wished to offer they were dismayed by it, fair enough, I suppose, but I must admit, I don’t even see the need or point in that, for the same reasons above. Mark, I personally think that what you say is legitimate. It’s more on topic than most posts and IMO, your observation is accurate. If things run true to form, your post will start a flame war and unfortunately and ironically it will now be your turn to get flamed.

Hang on, Willi, (and, as above, all IMO) – this isn’t somebody who was conned into paying his money to join a club, rent shelter, or whatever and showing up, and finding out that he was in danger of injury, things were too noisy to concentrate, or other happenings affecting his purchased right to "quiet enjoyment."  He got here via computer, and he had the ability to research what ROFF was like – other than referral, one HAS to search for ROFF as there is simply no other way to get here, and either way, one has ready tools to get a feel for what goes on.  Therefore, if one chooses to read ROFF, then one accepts that it is a free, but unregulated, forum, and one must choose what to read and what not to read.  Suppose someone "complained" that not enough <insert species here technique discussion took place, or there was too much "in jokes," or other "complaints?"   If one doesn’t like certain topics on ROFF, then don’t read them, but to try and make a NG conform to what any one person wants is not only just plain silly, it’s rude and arrogant.  Suppose he just showed up and started telling you how to run your business, your personal relationships, etc.  Now, if he had simply asked if ROFF was always like this, for the purposes of deciding what he wanted to do, I (and I suspect others) would have been much less sarcastic.  But to show up and start bitching about ROFF and making blind accusations, of the "we all know…" sand box gang-type is just asking for it (and who knows, maybe it’s a troll).  He obviously knows what a killfile is, so why not just use it if he can’t control what he reads, and save the "I’m new, here’s what’s wrong, and here’s the way it ought to be – my way" nonsense.   TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Stay Tough Willi

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m a pretty new subscriber to this newsgroup, and I’ve already managed to have my fill of a couple characters on here. One guy posts something, and one or two others respond with only assanine, sophomoric bullshit. If you want to flame each other, and play your childish little games, do so through email. I don’t know why the hell a couple of you feel the compelling need to act like a jackass with another member, and I really don’t give a damn. Grow up and act like adults. You guys know who I’m talking about, and the people know who they are. The constant little remarks and jabs get sick of reading. It’s bad enough that one has to wade through spam on these newsgroups, but then to have members flaming others at every little chance they get is stupid. If you really can’t reply to someone with at least a bit of civilness, don’t bother replying at all. Saves everyone else the time wasted on adding you to a killfile. To everyone else on here: Thanks for being adults. Tight lines.

Have you seen the movie "Gauntlet" where the good guy drives an armored bus through a whole messload o bad guys?  I hope you enjoyed it. Welcome, Scott

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Good post and many others agree with you. All’s Fair With Fur or Feather gg

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[snip] If you really can’t reply to someone with at least a bit of

civilness, don’t bother replying at all. [snip] To everyone else on here: Thanks for being adults. Tight lines.

Mark, I agree with you whole-heartedly.  I appreciate (and desire) your call to civility. But, and this is *really* hard for me to say, BUT ROFF flaming is a work of art [sic]. I’ve been lurking on the group since August of 1999, and I haven’t seen anything change, no matter who says what to whom about whatever. I do participate on a local chat board (or whatever its called). Flaming akin to ROFF started up, and one of the worst offenders started complaining about all the flaming! I pointed this out, he changed his ways, and now the board is a *lot* more civil…until the next flame war starts… which is bound to happen. I don’t like reading the muck, but eventually it *does* die down. Even with the muck, there is enough real information that makes it worthwhile. I appreciate your contributions, and that of many others. I am a relative newbie at flyfishing, and am always trying to absorb as much as possible. Right now I’m not at the experience level to be able to contribute meaningfully to the ffing topics. But I will when able. When my opinions become strong convictions I’m sure I’ll open myself up to all sorts of flames. The linguistic content of the flames usually is a reflection of the strength of language used by the originator of strong convictions. It other words, you get what you dish out. It comes with the territory called netnews. Most of the chief flamoids have a history in this group that bears upon each thread. Now, if I was a *real* adult, I wouldn’t participate in this particular group. <G But still I still lurk (and occasionally contribute). Rob

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Blow Me! Op – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s interesting to me how ROFF has redefined the word "whine." Roff defines "whine" as a criticism of Roff. No other posts, criticisms, arguments etc. are ever labelled as "whining". Mark, I personally think that what you say is legitimate. It’s more on topic than most posts and IMO, your observation is accurate. If things run true to form, your post will start a flame war and unfortunately and ironically it will now be your turn to get flamed. Stay Tough Willi

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You swine. You vulgar little maggot. You worthless bag of filth. As they say in Texas, I’ll bet you couldn’t pour piss out of a boot with instructions on the heel. You are a canker. A sore that won’t go away. I would rather kiss a lawyer than be seen with you. You’re a putrescent mass, a walking vomit. You are a spineless little worm deserving nothing but the profoundest contempt. You are a jerk, a cad, a weasel. Your life is a monument to stupidity. You are a stench, a revulsion, a big suck on a sour lemon. You are a bleating foal, a curdled staggering mutant dwarf smeared richly with the effluvia and offal accompanying your alleged birth into this world. An insensate, bleating calf, meaningful to nobody, abandoned by the puke-drooling,giggling beasts who sired you and then killed themselves in horified recognition of what they had done. I will never get over the embarrassment of belonging to the same species as you. You are a monster, an ogre, a malformity. I barf at the very thought of you. You have all the appeal of a paper cut. Lepers avoid you. You are vile, worthless, less than nothing. You are a weed, a fungus, the dregs of this earth. And did I mention you smell? Try to edit your responses of unnecessary material before attempting to impress us with your insight. The evidence that you are a nincompoop will still be available to readers, but they will be able to access it more rapidly. You snail-skulled little rabbit. Would that a hawk pick you up, drive its beak into your brain, and upon finding it rancid set you loose to fly briefly before spattering the ocean-rocks with the frothy pink shame of your ignoble blood. May you choke on the queasy,convulsing nausea of your own trite,foolish beliefs. You are weary, stale,flat and unprofitable. You are grimy, squalid, nasty and profane. You are foul and disgusting. You’re a fool, an ignoramus. Monkeys look down on you. Even sheep won’t have sex with you. You are unreservedly pathetic, starved for attention, and lost in a land that reality forgot. And what meaning do you expect your delusionally self-important statements of unknowing, inexperienced opinion to have with us? What fantasy do you hold that you would believe that your tiny-fisted tantrums would have more weight than that of a leprous desert rat, spinning rabidly in a circle, waiting for the bite of the snake? You are a waste of flesh. You have no rhythm. You are ridiculous and obnoxious. You are the moral equivalent of a leech. You are a living emptiness, a meaningless void. You are sour and senile. You are a disease, you puerile one-handed slack-jawed drooling meatslapper. On a good day you’re a half-wit. You remind me of drool. You are deficient in all that lends character. You have the personality of wallpaper. You are dank and filthy. You are asinine and benighted. You are the source of all unpleasantness,You spread misery and sorrow wherever you go. You smarmy lagerlout git. You bloody woofter sod. Bugger off, pillock. You grotty wanking oik artless base-court apple-john. You clouted boggish foot-licking twit. You dankish clack-dish plonker. You gormless crook-pated tosser. You churlish boil-brained clotpole ponce. You cockered bum-bailey poofter. You craven dewberry pisshead cockup pratting naff. You gob-kissing gleeking flap-mouthed coxcomb. You dread-bolted fobbing beef-witted clapper-clawed  flirt-gill. You are a fiend and a coward, and you have bad breath. You are degenerate, noxious and depraved. I feel debased just for knowing you exist. I despise everything about you, and I wish you would go away. I cannot believe how incredibly stupid you are. I mean rock-hard stupid.Dehydrated-rock-hard stupid. Stupid so stupid that it goes way beyond the stupid we know into a whole different dimension of stupid. You are trans-stupid stupid. Meta-stupid. Stupid collapsed on itself so far that even the neutrons have collapsed. Stupid gotten so dense that no intellect can escape.Singularity stupid.Blazing hot mid-day sun on Mercury stupid. You emit more stupidity in one second than our entire galaxy emits in a year. Quasar stupid. Your writing has to be a troll. Nothing in our universe can really be this stupid. Perhaps this is some primordial fragment from the original big bang of stupid. Some pure essence of a stupid so uncontaminated by anything else as to be beyond the laws of physics that we know. I’m sorry. I can’t go on. This is an epiphany of stupid for me. After this, you may not hear from me again for a while. I don’t have enough strength left to deride your ignorant questions and half baked comments about unimportant trivia, or any of the rest of this drivel. Duh. The only thing worse than your logic is your manners. I have snipped away most of what you wrote,because, well… it didn’t really say anything. Your attempt at constructing a creative flame was pitiful. I mean, really, stringing together a bunch of insults among a load of babbling was hardly effective… Maybe later in life, after you have learned to read,write, spell, and count, you will have more success. True, these are rudimentary  skills that many of us "normal" people take for granted,that everyone has an easy time of mastering. But we sometimes forget that there are "challenged"persons in this world who find these things more difficult. If I had known, that this was your case then I would have never read your post. It just wouldn’t have been "right". Sort of like parking in a handicap space. I wish you the best of luck in the emotional, and social struggles that seem to be placing such a demand on you. P.S. You are hypocritical, greedy, violent, malevolent, vengeful,cowardly, deadly, mendacious, meretricious, loathsome, despicable,belligerent,opportunistic, barratrous, contemptible, criminal, fascistic, bigoted,racist, sexist,avaricious, tasteless, idiotic, brain-damaged, imbecilic, insane, arrogant,deceitful, demented, lame, self-righteous, byzantine, conspiratorial,satanic,fraudulent, libelous, bilious,splenetic, spastic, ignorant, clueless,illegitimate,harmful, destructive, dumb, evasive, double-talking, devious, revisionist,narrow,manipulative, paternalistic, fundamentalist, dogmatic, idolatrous,unethical, cultic,diseased, suppressive, controlling, restrictive, malignant, deceptive, dim,crazy,weird, dystopic, stifling, uncaring, plantigrade, grim, unsympathetic,jargon-spouting,censorious, secretive, aggressive, mind-numbing, arassive, poisonous,flagrant,self-destructive, abusive, socially-retarded, puerile, clueless, and generally Not Good. — Don Thompson Another Thompson Scion  P.S.  Have a nice day.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m a pretty new subscriber to this newsgroup, and I’ve already managed to have my fill of a couple characters on here. One guy posts something, and one or two others respond with only assanine, sophomoric bullshit. If you want to flame each other, and play your childish little games, do so through email. I don’t know why the hell a couple of you feel the compelling need to act like a jackass with another member, and I really don’t give a damn. Grow up and act like adults. You guys know who I’m talking about, and the people know who they are. The constant little remarks and jabs get sick of reading. It’s bad enough that one has to wade through spam on these newsgroups, but then to have members flaming others at every little chance they get is stupid. If you really can’t reply to someone with at least a bit of civilness, don’t bother replying at all. Saves everyone else the time wasted on adding you to a killfile. To everyone else on here: Thanks for being adults. Tight lines.

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Good post and many others agree with you. Now *that’s* funny!

Good post and many others agree with you. Steve.

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Good post and many others agree with you. Now *that’s* funny! Good post and many others agree with you. Steve.

Now THAT’S funny! Wolfgang

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Good post and many others agree with you. Now *that’s* funny! Good post and many others agree with you. Steve. Now THAT’S funny! Wolfgang

Good post and many others agree with you. R Et tu…?  (as in "e twei" not Brutus)

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BLOW ME! Op

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Good post and many others agree with you.

Now *that’s* funny!

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I’m a pretty new subscriber to this newsgroup, and I’ve already managed to have my fill of a couple characters on here. One guy posts something, and one or two others respond with only assanine, sophomoric…

Take off, you hoser. –Steve (oops, sorry. wrong McKenzie.)

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I’m a pretty new subscriber to this newsgroup,

Ah, well, let me warn ya about a few things.  One of the worst things a newbie can do is start explaining who is doing what wrong.  It just makes them look foolish…. and I’ve already managed to ave my fill of a couple characters on here.

Oh-oh…well, as you’re new and all, just tell Wolfgang which ones, and he’ll dispatch them for you.  He’s probably give you the dumbass discount if you ask stupidly enough….and I can tell you’re up to it… One guy posts something, and one or two others respond with only assanine, sophomoric bullshit.

Yeah, I can see what you mean, but while you may be "assanine," you’re not quite funny enough to be called sophomoric.  You nailed the bullshit, though!  And "one or two"?  Is some other dope gonna post another silly whine? If you want to flame each other, and play your childish little games, do so through email.

Aw, Da-a-a-d, lemmee tease the dumbass, please, Dad, please? I don’t know why the hell a couple of you feel the compelling need to act like a jackass with another member,

Oh?  Did you not mean to post this? and I really don’t give a damn.

Well, at least not after you spout off about it, right? Grow up and act like adults.

No, I don’t wanna!  So there! You guys know who I’m talking about, and the people know who they are.

Right, you guys, now come on and let’s hurry and join up with Marky’s gang before all the spaces fill up.  I, for one, would almost nearly mildly amused if I don’t get on board…. The constant little remarks and jabs get sick of reading.

Little "remarks" and "jabs" – are those your kids?  Well, whoever they are, keep the little rug rats at it – this is the information age, after all, and they need to be able to read. It’s bad enough that one has to wade through spam on these newsgroups, but then to have members flaming others at every little chance they get is stupid.

But so much fun – I’m really enjoying this….BTW, wanna buy some nudie pictures of Dan Rather on eBay? If you really can’t reply to someone with at least a bit of civilness, don’t bother replying at all.

DAMN!  NOW you tell me… Saves everyone else the time wasted on adding you to a killfile.

Well, at least you and…er…um…well, OK, you ought to have fun reading your own posts after you killfile everyone that posts something you probably won’t like…. To everyone else on here: Thanks for being adults. Tight lines.

And speaking of things being tight, how many foot-pounds of torque do you use on your ass? HTH R

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<snipped snippy whine To everyone else on here: Thanks for being adults. Tight lines.

Feel free to add me to your killfile, you’re already in mine.  Honestly.  If you don’t like what some people post, killfile them and don’t read them, don’t freakin’ whine.  Pathetic. –Your Buddy, Stan

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Mark…I was going to type something really compassionate and understanding…..even explain how I felt new…after only two or three years here…… …and then I thought about flaming – but I’m not really any good at it. I mean there are some pros here. I mean guys who do that sort of thin for a living…or maybe it’s just natural talent in some.. …but I think I’ll go camping. You see, I’m the resident lush and for that reason I don’t drink at home and I really want to have a couple of beers and watch this thread. It has a whole world of potential! john

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m a pretty new subscriber to this newsgroup, and I’ve already managed to have my fill of a couple characters on here. One guy posts something, and one or two others respond with only assanine, sophomoric bullshit. If you want to flame each other, and play your childish little games, do so through email. I don’t know why the hell a couple of you feel the compelling need to act like a jackass with another member, and I really don’t give a damn. Grow up and act like adults. You guys know who I’m talking about, and the people know who they are. The constant little remarks and jabs get sick of reading. It’s bad enough that one has to wade through spam on these newsgroups, but then to have members flaming others at every little chance they get is stupid. If you really can’t reply to someone with at least a bit of civilness, don’t bother replying at all. Saves everyone else the time wasted on adding you to a killfile. To everyone else on here: Thanks for being adults. Tight lines.

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Um…Welcome, I guess. Now, either get to love the place, or do yourself a favor and fuck off. Hope this helps? /daytripper (Thank you for your support) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m a pretty new subscriber to this newsgroup, and I’ve already managed to have my fill of a couple characters on here. One guy posts something, and one or two others respond with only assanine, sophomoric bullshit. If you want to flame each other, and play your childish little games, do so through email. I don’t know why the hell a couple of you feel the compelling need to act like a jackass with another member, and I really don’t give a damn. Grow up and act like adults. You guys know who I’m talking about, and the people know who they are. The constant little remarks and jabs get sick of reading. It’s bad enough that one has to wade through spam on these newsgroups, but then to have members flaming others at every little chance they get is stupid. If you really can’t reply to someone with at least a bit of civilness, don’t bother replying at all. Saves everyone else the time wasted on adding you to a killfile. To everyone else on here: Thanks for being adults. Tight lines.

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I’m a pretty new subscriber to this newsgroup, and I’ve already managed to have my fill of a couple characters on here. One guy posts something, and one or two others respond with only assanine, sophomoric bullshit. If you want to flame each other, and play your childish little games, do so through email. I don’t know why the hell a couple of you feel the compelling need to act like a jackass with another member, and I really don’t give a damn. Grow up and act like adults. You guys know who I’m talking about, and the people know who they are. The constant little remarks and jabs get sick of reading. It’s bad enough that one has to wade through spam on these newsgroups, but then to have members flaming others at every little chance they get is stupid. If you really can’t reply to someone with at least a bit of civilness, don’t bother replying at all. Saves everyone else the time wasted on adding you to a killfile. To everyone else on here: Thanks for being adults. Tight lines.

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blah, blah, blah

Heh, heh.  Ordinarily I would be delighted to fire the opening salvo, but there are a few relative newcomers who have yet to get first crack at one of these. Wolfgang who never tires of experiments in andragogy

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Question:

I am doing some research on fishing competitions and would like some input guys/gals. How much would you be willing to pay to enter a competition where the winner of the biggest catch over a weekend wins $50,000 USD.

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How much would you be willing to pay to enter a competition where the winner of the biggest catch over a weekend wins $50,000 USD.

One TBone<g. — Charlie…

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How much would you be willing to pay to enter a competition where the winner of the biggest catch over a weekend wins $50,000 USD. One TBone<g.

I’ll see yer tbone and raise ya a tamato stake.

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I’ll see yer tbone and raise ya a tamato stake.

You livin’ in China now? — Charlie…

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I am doing some research on fishing competitions and would like some input guys/gals. How much would you be willing to pay to enter a competition where the winner of the biggest catch over a weekend wins $50,000 USD.

you have it wrong markie….. how much are *you* willing to pay participants to even show up? send me jumbo-jet round-trippers, 14 in total along with $50,000 in pocket cash, and I’ll round up a NC contingent that will whup yer aussies butts and outdrink ya to boot! hope this helps, waldo

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I am doing some research on fishing competitions and would like some input guys/gals. How much would you be willing to pay to enter a competition where the winner of the biggest catch over a weekend wins $50,000 USD.

        not nearly as much as i would pay to see you have the "biggest catch" shoved up your ass.         love and kisses from the guys/gals. wayno

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I wouldn’t pay a penny. Fishing is not about competing. When I go fishing I’ve won when I make the first cast. I’ve won because I’m where I want to be doing something for myself regardless of the number of fish I catch. Paul

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am doing some research on fishing competitions and would like some input guys/gals. How much would you be willing to pay to enter a competition where the winner of the biggest catch over a weekend wins $50,000 USD.

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   Ah, but there is inherent commercialism and background competition already occurring.  With this stance, would you turn down prize money if you caught a world record fish and the company that makes your rod, reel or line had a reward for said fish?  Say, a million for a world record bucket mouth caught on a Daiwa rod?  You’ve already paid for entry into this competition as part of the purchase price of the rod.  Have you ever been in a "big fish pool" on a trip, winner takes all?  I think its all about degree.  Would I go on a tournament trail?  No.  Would I occasionally fish a tournament on my home waters?  Maybe. How much would I pay?  Depends on how many are entered, how much of the kitty is by sponsors, what are my odds.  Would I fish it for charity?  Yes, if I was sure that some ones charity would get the bucks.             Frank Reid   I think the – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I wouldn’t pay a penny. Fishing is not about competing. When I go fishing I’ve won when I make the first cast. I’ve won because I’m where I want to be doing something for myself regardless of the number of fish I catch. Paul I am doing some research on fishing competitions and would like some input guys/gals. How much would you be willing to pay to enter a competition where the winner of the biggest catch over a weekend wins $50,000 USD.

Before you buy.

Response:

Wow, makes rofb look tame. Atta boy, Wayno….tell ‘em like it is. — I say we fish 5, work 2. Shawn

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – mark barry crossposted the following: I am doing some research on fishing competitions and would like some input guys/gals. How much would you be willing to pay to enter a competition where the winner of the biggest catch over a weekend wins $50,000 USD.         not nearly as much as i would pay to see you have the "biggest catch" shoved up your ass.         love and kisses from the guys/gals. Now before all you ROFBers get your panties in a twist this bit of off-color commentary by Mr. Harrison was precipitated by Mr. Barry’s crossposting. Post something about "fishing competitions" to the flyfishing newsgroup and this is a relatively mild example of what you can expect as a response. And Bob Redding, I strongly suggest you not send threatening email to Mr. Harrison. He’s one of North Carolina’s most respected criminal defense attorneys and he does not suffer fools well. — Ken Fortenberry

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So what is this research all about?  Why don’t you direct it to B.A.S.S. They sponsor hundreds of tournaments weekly. Suggest you try to understand fly fishermen (guys/gals) before posting such requests. John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am doing some research on fishing competitions and would like some input guys/gals. How much would you be willing to pay to enter a competition where the winner of the biggest catch over a weekend wins $50,000 USD.

Response:

That question can only be asked of yourself, who is the only possible true source of any useful input. In all honesty, how good a fisherman are you? How good is your competition? What do you know that they don’t? What do you do that they can’t? What do you have that they don’t? Your answers are almost as important as your willingness to accept them. You will probably find an honest answer to be the entry fee is worth what you are willing to spend for a good time, and no more. That amount will naturally increase as your love of gambling increases, so the final answer was in you all along. — Bob Rickard SECRET WEAPON — World’s absolute finest spinnerbaits! All others are now obsolete . . . See for yourself at http://inetsa.com/user/secretweapon

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am doing some research on fishing competitions and would like some input guys/gals. How much would you be willing to pay to enter a competition where the winner of the biggest catch over a weekend wins $50,000 USD.

Response:

(snip)  That amount will naturally increase as your love of gambling increases, so the final answer was in you all along.

        (hyperbolic hogshit claiming world domination in metallic lure snipped)         well, i’ll be damned…george has changed his name and gone to post with the glitter boat crowd! wayno the blessing counter

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Oh heck, I’ll shove in a couple grand I guess. Don’t be checking my damn livewell before blast-off though.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am doing some research on fishing competitions and would like some input guys/gals. How much would you be willing to pay to enter a competition where the winner of the biggest catch over a weekend wins $50,000 USD.

Response:

Question:

Hmmm, wandered the desert on LSD??  Interesting… I could never seem to get beyond the wood grain on the legs of my coffe table….now, maybe I wasn’t getting the good shit ?!?! <g…. YMMV. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Not fishing related, but I knew a guy who dropped acid on Easter Sunday and wandered around the desert madly scribbling his deep thoughts. The next morning, he woke up in his sleeping bag and eagerly grabbed the notebook to see what his brilliance had rendered. The entire thing read: "I hate bugs. I need wind."

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Not fishing related, but I knew a guy who dropped acid on Easter Sunday and wandered around the desert madly scribbling his deep thoughts. The next morning, he woke up in his sleeping bag and eagerly grabbed the notebook to see what his brilliance had rendered. The entire thing read: "I hate bugs. I need wind."

Obviously not a fly fisher.  Should have read:  "I need bugs".  "I hate wind".

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That response is so brilliant I’m going to try to track him down (been 20 years) and send it to him!

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Not fishing related, but I knew a guy who dropped acid on Easter Sunday and wandered around the desert madly scribbling his deep thoughts. The next morning, he woke up in his sleeping bag and eagerly grabbed the notebook to see what his brilliance had rendered. The entire thing read: "I hate bugs. I need wind."

Response:

Not fishing related, but I knew a guy who dropped acid on Easter Sunday and wandered around the desert madly scribbling his deep thoughts. The next morning, he woke up in his sleeping bag and eagerly grabbed the notebook to see what his brilliance had rendered. The entire thing read: "I hate bugs. I need wind."

 Neat set of friends you hang with Harry Mason www.troutflies.com

Response:

Not fishing related, but I knew a guy who dropped acid on Easter Sunday and wandered around the desert madly scribbling his deep thoughts. The next morning, he woke up in his sleeping bag and eagerly grabbed the notebook to see what his brilliance had rendered. The entire thing read: "I hate bugs. I need wind."

Tell him I know exactly what he means.

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Question:

How about used Macro lenses…what could I get that would be relatively inexpensive and still provide the ability for an object about 1/4" to fill 35mm ? Thanks, again, very very much. — TimW

        anybody that uses canon equipment has *got* to be a fish-killin’, beer drinkin’ reprobate.         olympus rules!         email me with your detailed needs, buddy, and i will try to find something for you. happy thanksgiving! wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Tim, These will not fit an EOS mount.  I beleive you can get and FD/EOS adapter, however you lose all your metering functions – not a good thing eh! If you need bellows there are the Novaflex autobellows for EOS, you may have to hunt around for them second hand, I beleive that they are not cheap. Alternatively I use Hoya close-up filters on a 50mm 1.8 lens, these do a good job, you have to be very careful with your focusing and depth of field. Canon now actually make extension tubes for EOS – however I don’t know how much they cost, so you I can’t comment on them. Regards, AS

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: [deleted] : No. The mounts are completely different. FL and FD were the mounts used on : their pre-autofocus SLR cameras such as the FTb, F-1, and T-90. : Is there an adapter ? AutoFocus is unimportant and the TTL metering should : work regardless ? Pasted from my save file: Can any one refer me to some resources on the internet that explain the difference betwen Canon’s FD and EF Lenses?  I also would like to find out the compatibility issues of FD lenses with Canon EOS Cameras?

Canon EF lenses are autofocus (usually with manual focus capability); they fit Canon EOS camera bodies.  Aperture is 100% electronic and can only be set from the camera body.  EF lenses cannot be mounted on a F, A, or T series (FD) camera body; adapters are not available. Canon FD lenses are manual focus only; they fit on the older Canon F, A and T series camera bodies.  Aperture is set on the lens by turning a ring or placed on "A" (or "O") for automatic aperture setting.  FD lenses cannot be mounted on an EOS (autofocus) camera without an adapter. FD/EF adapters are either optical or macro.  Macro adapters will not allow the lens to focus to infinity.  Optical adapters made by Canon are useable only on certain expensive telephoto lenses.  Optical adapters made by 3rd parties are not noted for quality.  When FD lenses are used with any EF adapter, focus will be manual and metering must be performed manually with the lens stopped-down to the taking aperture. Dave Herzstein http://www.kjsl.com/~dave/index.html Bill Jameson

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You can probably achieve fair to good quality if your are careful with tripod mounted camera and close-up lens attachments  that are much cheaper than extension tubes and bellows.  Check with B&H in NY.

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For inexpensive macro shots with an EOS, get a set of independently-made extension tubes I can’t find these….what do I ask for ? What is the best I can hope for on this in terms of ‘magnification’ ?

Kenko is a brand name of some extension tubes.  There are others.  Look in the B&H ads in the mags.  Canon has there own set (more expensive.) Now, as far as ‘magnification’ is concerned, I hope you realize that you are delving into an area of photography where simple one line answers on USENET are not going to serve you well.  Suggest you start reading some books on macro photography. Magnification is a function of object distance (from lens), the focal length of the lens, and the image distance (from lens to film).  Change any one of these three and you will change the magnification.  As an experiment, pick up a plain ‘ol magnifying glass, and focus an image (let’s say from your monitor screen) onto the back of your hand.  Then walk a few feet away and try again.  You’ll notice that the image on your hand is smaller.  What you’ve done is change the object distance and observed the difference in size due to it. Magnification is defined as the image distance divided by the object distance.  Thus the closer you can get to an object the greater the magnification.  Conversely, if you can increase the image distance then you will also get greater magnification. What extension tubes accomplish is the latter.  They move the lens away from the film, thus increasing the magnification. A ring light would be a good light source for your photos of fishing flies. Could this still hook up through the shoe and provide TTL ?

Yes, there are ring lights that will work with EOS and still have TTL flash control. How about used Macro lenses…what could I get that would be relatively inexpensive and still provide the ability for an object about 1/4" to fill 35mm ?

Let’s see, a 35mm frame is 1.5” long, the item is 1/4" long, so the magnification required would be (1.5)/(1/4) = 6.  You are talking ‘real’ macrophotography, it IS NOT the stuff most people think about when they buy the so called 105mm ‘macro’ lenses!  You’d need the bellows unit, and a lens that could work with it.  Canon makes them.  There are third party items as well. Real macrophotography is very involved, and costs bucks. Canon publishes a "Macro" book; B&H has it listed for $18, I suggest you order it. BTW, Canon just came out with a special macro lens that can go to 5x, almost your requirement!  Expect to pay around $1050 for it.  The focal length is only 65mm though. -dan

Response:

Thank you. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…" B.M.P.I.A. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I saw a Canon Bellows for sale at Ebay.  It said FD/FL mount.  Will this fit an EOS ? No. The mounts are completely different. FL and FD were the mounts used on their pre-autofocus SLR cameras such as the FTb, F-1, and T-90. For inexpensive macro shots with an EOS, get a set of independently-made extension tubes and/or a reverse mount adapter for your normal lens. A ring light would be a good light source for your photos of fishing flies.

Response:

[deleted] No. The mounts are completely different. FL and FD were the mounts used on their pre-autofocus SLR cameras such as the FTb, F-1, and T-90.

Is there an adapter ? AutoFocus is unimportant and the TTL metering should work regardless ? For inexpensive macro shots with an EOS, get a set of independently-made extension tubes

I can’t find these….what do I ask for ? What is the best I can hope for on this in terms of ‘magnification’ ? and/or a reverse mount adapter for your normal lens.

Again…the photo shop here in Podunk didn’t have this…at least not for the EOS…sources ?  I do have magnification filters (+1, +2, +4) and these work so-so…I’ve been putting them all together and just feel really cheesy about it. A ring light would be a good light source for your photos of fishing flies.

Could this still hook up through the shoe and provide TTL ? How about used Macro lenses…what could I get that would be relatively inexpensive and still provide the ability for an object about 1/4" to fill 35mm ? Thanks, again, very very much. — TimW

Response:

I saw a Canon Bellows for sale at Ebay.  It said FD/FL mount.  Will this fit an EOS ? Does anybody have an extension tube/bellows or macro lens they could part with for a fair price ? Lights ? I’m trying to do some photographs of fishing flies for scanning and posting and am very much an amateur with a desire to do a good job. Thanks very much… — TimW

Response:

I saw a Canon Bellows for sale at Ebay.  It said FD/FL mount.  Will this fit an EOS ?

No. The mounts are completely different. FL and FD were the mounts used on their pre-autofocus SLR cameras such as the FTb, F-1, and T-90. For inexpensive macro shots with an EOS, get a set of independently-made extension tubes and/or a reverse mount adapter for your normal lens. A ring light would be a good light source for your photos of fishing flies.

Response:

Question:

I just moved to Los Angeles from Pennsylvania, where I’d be flyfishing for trout every weekend. I’m looking for suggestions for the closest stream to LA where I catch some west coast trout. Thanks. —

Response:

I just moved to Los Angeles from Pennsylvania, where I’d be flyfishing for trout every weekend. I’m looking for suggestions for the closest stream to LA where I catch some west coast trout. Thanks. —

If you like lake fishing, there are many around that have stocked fish, incl. Castaic and Piru, north off 5 about 1 hr. If you like big rivers with wild fish–like the Madison–you’re out of luck.   If you like small streams with small wild rainbows and occaisional browns, use this formula: ANY stream in the San Gabriel or San Bernardino Mountains that runs year ’round has them.  Get out a map, explore and remember two rules of thumb:  For maximum fishing pleasure, DON’T fish on the weekends; but if you have to fish weekends, get as far from other people as possible by hiking. You might want to try the East Fork of the San Gabriel River above Azusa off Hwy. 39.  If you get back in a few miles you might be able to get away from most everyone else.  (The West Fork is a C&R wild trout area, but they ave been working on the dam upstream; when they do this, the water goes off color and is not fun to fish.)

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Question:

i am taking a friend on a flyfishing vacation starting july 27. we are leaving from sacramento and will probably head to the upper sac. or maybe the mcloud the first day. eventually we’ll end up at the deschutes river, but what we do between the 2 areas is undecided. suggestions for waters to fish would be gratefully welcome. thanks a million in advance          greg

Response:

Greg, I have some advice on eastern Oregon lakes on my site, and The Scarlet Ibis Fly Shop has some more content re: Oregon.  Hit their tip archives.  You can get to all of this at the URL below.  The lakes are liable to be off, though, the way temperatures have been.  Why not try the upper McKenzie, after the Rogue? i am taking a friend on a flyfishing vacation starting july 27. we are leaving from sacramento and will probably head to the upper sac. or maybe the mcloud the first day. eventually we’ll end up at the deschutes river, but what we do between the 2 areas is undecided. suggestions for waters to fish would be gratefully welcome. thanks a million in advance          greg

– Greg Metcalfe            |  Affordable Web Development http://www.proaxis.com   |  IE or Netscape 3.0

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Question:

3M makes a fly line dressing that brings out the natural lubricants in the line itself and puts more on it.  Great Great Great STuff

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writes: Has anybody tried "lard" (yes, I mean pure porky lard for cooking) or any other greasy-oily domestic product?

     In the Bad Old Days of silk lines, commercial line dressings contained lanolin (i.e., mutton fat), but what good lard would do on a vinyl-covered line, I don’t know.  Silicones act like oils but are much less sensitive to changes in temperature (and do not become rancid!)      Wash your line in warm water and mild soap, rinse, then wipe dry with a soft cloth.  You will be surprised how much better a clean line floats and shoots than a dirty one.  – Roger

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Does anybody know of any domestic product we could use to apply on fly lines instead of these expensive silicone products a careful fisherman must buy many times a year in order to protect his line? Has anybody tried "lard" (yes, I mean pure porky lard for cooking) or any other greasy-oily domestic product? Fly fishing is older than "silicone" I believe, so what would ancient fly fishers use on their lines? …of course we know they didn’t use synthetic lines as we do now, but still! I am asking before I try for I am bored by the commercial aspect of fishing.  And I do go fishing every day. If some of you fly fishers out there would kindly give me informations on this by E-Mail, I would gather the answer and publish them in an article here in the NewsGroup.  It might be helpful for all of us. If I get no answer, well next year I’ll know because I’ll try a few tricks. Thanks for reading me.  If you got any answer you can mail ‘em to me (Jean-Pierre) at E-Mail address:

I think that a can of Mucilin is about as much as a mocha? William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA

Response:

Does anybody know of any domestic product we could use to apply on fly lines instead of these expensive silicone products a careful fisherman must buy many times a year in order to protect his line? Has anybody tried "lard" (yes, I mean pure porky lard for cooking) or any other greasy-oily domestic product? Fly fishing is older than "silicone" I believe, so what would ancient fly fishers use on their lines? …of course we know they didn’t use synthetic lines as we do now, but still! I am asking before I try for I am bored by the commercial aspect of fishing.  And I do go fishing every day. If some of you fly fishers out there would kindly give me informations on this by E-Mail, I would gather the answer and publish them in an article here in the NewsGroup.  It might be helpful for all of us. If I get no answer, well next year I’ll know because I’ll try a few tricks. Thanks for reading me.  If you got any answer you can mail ‘em to me (Jean-Pierre) at E-Mail address:

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Question:

I’m interested in attempting to build my own fly rod.  I’ve been looking through several catalogs for supplies, so no problem there.  Does anyone have any advice on "how to" books regarding rod building? Thanks.

Response:

The definitive book on custom rod building is : Advanced Custom Rod Building by Dale Clemens publisher is Winchester Press. Can be bought through any mail order catalog that sells rod building supplies. — Dave

Response:

In my opinnion "Start to Finish Fly rod Building" (50 pages) published by the FlexCoat Company is more than sufissient to do a very good first-time job. If you fall in love with rod building you can buy the more comprehensive stuff. I bought it from Anglers Workshop, WA. Good Luck Jan errik Frithjofsen I’m interested in attempting to build my own fly rod.  I’ve been looking through several catalogs for supplies, so no problem there.  Does anyone have any advice on "how to" books regarding rod building? Thanks.

Jan Erik Frithjofsen

Response:

I’m interested in attempting to build my own fly rod.  I’ve been looking

through several catalogs for supplies, so no problem there.  Does anyone have any advice on "how to" books regarding rod building<< A very good book with excellent photographs of the building process including many close ups  is Handcrafting a Graphite Fly Rod by Louis Garcia, published by Frank Amato Publications, it sells for $15.95.  This is an excellent book for the first time builder.  It walks you through the process from start to finish in a clear and precise manner. A.G.W. Manchester, NH

Response:

I’m interested in attempting to build my own fly rod.  I’ve been looking through several catalogs for supplies, so no problem there.  Does anyone have any advice on "how to" books regarding rod building? Thanks.

A good book is one by Skip Morris on building graphite fly rods.  Also check mail order houses who specialize in rod building (e.g., Dale Clemens in Allentown, PA)

Response:

: I’ve built two rods and the only problem I ran into was mixing the flexcoat. The first rod : came out wonderfully because I used the measuring syringes.  Next rod : the syringes were all gunked up and my mix was tacky for 6 months. So : I ask how do you clean them out after each use and or where do you : purchase extras?

Here’s another alternative: don’t use flex coat.  Their epoxy is too thick and the syringes are unreliable.  I use a two-part epoxy formula made by Manhattan Custom Tackle that gives a thin, glassy finish.  You mix it using metal measuring spoons, so you know the parts are equal.

Response:

: I’ve built two rods and the only problem I ran into was mixing the flexcoat. The first rod : came out wonderfully because I used the measuring syringes.  Next rod : the syringes were all gunked up and my mix was tacky for 6 months. So : I ask how do you clean them out after each use and or where do you : purchase extras? Here’s another alternative: don’t use flex coat.  Their epoxy is too thick and the syringes are unreliable.  I use a two-part epoxy formula made by Manhattan Custom Tackle that gives a thin, glassy finish.  You mix it using metal measuring spoons, so you know the parts are equal.

I have had great sucess with the thinner of the two Flex Coat formulations.. After you build a rod them away. Replacement syringes are cheap insurance.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just use a piece of tying thread as the loop, pull it until it is under only the last 2 or 3 wraps, then cut it with a little exacto knife. Don’t get too much thread under the wrap or you’ll get nubs and they never really burn off that well. I use a piece of about 10lb test mono tippet material to pull the thread through, less twisting of everything.  Once the end is pulled under the last several wraps and through pull on it quite hard and this will stretch it and lift the wraps a little and then carefully cut it close with an X-acto or razor blade.  Then the end will pull back under the wraps nicely leaving no bumps…  sometimes I nick the wraps but then I just redo them.  Beats the hell out of trying to singe ends off, I always end up with sooty thread when I try that.  Good luck build nice rods!

I am surprised that no one commented on a simpler solution to pulling the thread through and cutting it off with a sharp knife/ razorblade/ X-acto knife/ etc. You can use the same method but leave the end of the thraed rather short, let’s say 1/8th. of an inch. If you pull this short end back under the last 10 wraps or so none of it will come out and you won’t have to bother with trimming the end off or singing it or having an unsightly stump. It may not always work but it really is quite simple. Good luck! Tom Hackmann

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello All: A query for those of you versed in the fine art of rod building:  I am intending to build myself a rod on a Sage SP blank when they become available in March.  However, I have some trepidations as this would be my first foray into the rod building world.  My question is:  instead of risking a messy/lousy job on an expensive blank should I build a practice rod on a cheaper or blemished/second rod blank first?  I would like my SP rod to be without too many major errors, cosmetic or otherwise.  I intend to go slow and carefully.  Is that all I need to do or are there certain mistakes that I must learn first in order to avoid later?

I have a question about the two part epoxy. I built two rods and the first one went fine because I used the syringes provided with the Crystal Coat to measure the two parts. The second rod is still tacky after 4 months, probably because the measurement of the Coat was incorrect. Why? Because the two measuring syringes were all gunked up from the first use.  So two questions. 1. How do you clean the syringes? No I didn’t mix the two. 2. Where do you buy new syringes without buying an entire new package of Clear Coat?

Response:

I’ve built two rods and the only problem I ran into was mixing the flexcoat. The first rod came out wonderfully because I used the measuring syringes.  Next rod the syringes were all gunked up and my mix was tacky for 6 months. So I ask how do you clean them out after each use and or where do you purchase extras?

The directions on the Flex Coat I’ve been practicing with says not to clean the syringes.  I think it says to simply store them seperately in air tight containers.  I have not gone back to look at them since I put them in zip lock baggies, so I’m not sure if I’ll face the same problem you had or not.  As far as extras, the mail order companies (e.g. Angler’s Workshop, Jans) seem to have the best prices on these type of supplies.

Response:

—— snip ——- : : I’ve built two rods and the only problem I ran into was mixing the flexcoat. The first rod : came out wonderfully because I used the measuring syringes.  Next rod : the syringes were all gunked up and my mix was tacky for 6 months. So : I ask how do you clean them out after each use and or where do you : purchase extras? I was told by the guys at Flexcoat to use alcohol to clean the syringes. I have also read in Advanced Custom Rod Building by Dale Clemens that you can thin the Flexcoat up to 15% to make it thiner. I store my syringes in mid-stroke after cleaning. Oh, Netcrafter’s sells them seperately including the mixing cups. Keep your feet dry, — Bob San Jose, Ca

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello All: A query for those of you versed in the fine art of rod building:  I am intending to build myself a rod on a Sage SP blank when they become available in March.  However, I have some trepidations as this would be my first foray into the rod building world.  My question is:  instead of risking a messy/lousy job on an expensive blank should I build a practice rod on a cheaper or blemished/second rod blank first?  I would like my SP rod to be without too many major errors, cosmetic or otherwise.  I intend to go slow and carefully.  Is that all I need to do or are there certain mistakes that I must learn first in order to avoid later? Follow up questions:  what is the most difficult aspect of the process?   what should I practice? Yet another inquiry:  what is your preferred method of finishing (tying off) the wraps?  Do most folks use the method Garcia talks about in his book (pulling the thread underneath the wraps with a loop of guitar string or similar, and then while the thread is still under the wraps pulling the thread and loop in opposite directions until the thread breaks)?  Or is there a more preferred method? Thanks for any info you can share. Andy

If you can find a flyshop that has a rod building class I strongly recommend it. I built my first rod on Sage RPL blank and I am very pleased with the result. A good teacher has a lot of tricks that make the job easier. To prevent bubbles, blow on the wet flex coat. First after mixing, then after applying. Bubbles disappear like magic. To pull end of wrap under the winding  use a piece of same thread to make a loop and catch the main thread. Continue to wind for1/8 inch or so and pull the loop to snug it against the last turn. Cut off the end of the thread  with a SHARP razor blade leaving about 1/16 inch end. Grasp the loop and give a quick pull back against the direction the thread is being wound. The end will pull under the winding leaving no end showing. Just take your time, nothing is difficult. Chuck

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello All: A query for those of you versed in the fine art of rod building:  I am intending to build myself a rod on a Sage SP blank when they become available in March.  However, I have some trepidations as this would be my first foray into the rod building world.  My question is:  instead of risking a messy/lousy job on an expensive blank should I build a practice rod on a cheaper or blemished/second rod blank first?  I would like my SP rod to be without too many major errors, cosmetic or otherwise.  I intend to go slow and carefully.  Is that all I need to do or are there certain mistakes that I must learn first in order to avoid later? Andy If you can find a flyshop that has a rod building class I strongly recommend it. I built my first rod on Sage RPL blank and I am very pleased with the result. A good teacher has a lot of tricks that make the job easier. To prevent bubbles, blow on the wet flex coat. First after mixing, then after applying. Bubbles disappear like magic. To pull end of wrap under the winding  use a piece of same thread to make a loop and catch the main thread. Continue to wind for1/8 inch or so and pull the loop to snug it against the last turn. Cut off the end of the thread  with a SHARP razor blade leaving about 1/16 inch end. Grasp the loop and give a quick pull back against the direction the thread is being wound. The end will pull under the winding leaving no end showing. Just take your time, nothing is difficult. Chuck

I’ve built two rods and the only problem I ran into was mixing the flexcoat. The first rod came out wonderfully because I used the measuring syringes.  Next rod the syringes were all gunked up and my mix was tacky for 6 months. So I ask how do you clean them out after each use and or where do you purchase extras?

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: Andy : : If you can find a flyshop that has a rod building class I strongly : recommend it. I built my first rod on Sage RPL blank and I am very : pleased with the result. A good teacher has a lot of tricks that make : the job easier. : : To prevent bubbles, blow on the wet flex coat. First after mixing, : then after applying. Bubbles disappear like magic. : : To pull end of wrap under the winding  use a piece of same thread to : make a loop and catch the main thread. Continue to wind for1/8 inch or : so and pull the loop to snug it against the last turn. Cut off the end : of the thread  with a SHARP razor blade leaving about 1/16 inch end. : Grasp the loop and give a quick pull back against the direction the : thread is being wound. The end will pull under the winding leaving no : end showing. : : Just take your time, nothing is difficult. : : Chuck Chuck, I agree with every thing you have read, and I used to wrap that way. I had seen a wrapping tool in Herter’s catalog back in the late forties that I copied. This Christmas my kids gave me a Flo-coat wrapping tool. You don’t need it but it is nice. Netcrafter has them in their cat cheap. The thing I found was a copy of L.A. Garcia’s book "Hand crafting a Graphite Rod". It has some very nice photos (examlpes) of tools that can be copied. Something worth making _or_ purchasing is a whip finisher. I would never use a razor blade to cut the line for fear pf nicking the graphite and setting up a stress point for a fracture. Garcia states that if you pull evenly on the finisher and the thread end, the thread will break and in the process the finisher will come out also. Instead of using the same thread to tug the whip under the wrap, I’d suggest some monofiliment of about 15 lb. Just some additional thoujghts, — Bob San Jose, Ca

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I just use a piece of tying thread as the loop, pull it until it is under only the last 2 or 3 wraps, then cut it with a little exacto knife. Don’t get too much thread under the wrap or you’ll get nubs and they never really burn off that well.

I use a piece of about 10lb test mono tippet material to pull the thread through, less twisting of everything.  Once the end is pulled under the last several wraps and through pull on it quite hard and this will stretch it and lift the wraps a little and then carefully cut it close with an X-acto or razor blade.  Then the end will pull back under the wraps nicely leaving no bumps…  sometimes I nick the wraps but then I just redo them.  Beats the hell out of trying to singe ends off, I always end up with sooty thread when I try that.  Good luck build nice rods! Catch and Release Dave Wood Ravenna OH

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Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly Organization: Prodigy Services Company  1-800-PRODIGY Here’s an idea I haven;t seen posted here before: instead of practicing on a cheap blank you probably won’t fish with anyway, buy a 3′ length of wooden dowling from your local hardware store (less than $1) and pretend it’s a blank.  Practice placing guides, wrapping them and finishing.   Then you’ll be ready for the real thing.

Consider that a wooden dowel will behave differently wrt absorption of the epoxy/varnish and wrt the way the wraps slide (and are manipulated) on the blank. It is always better to practice on something as close to the target as possible; it is always better to practice on something than not to practice at all. — Office:     Denver, Colorado  1-303-595-2864 Home:       Bailey, Colorado

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Thought I’d add a couple of things. See below. snip Follow up questions:  what is the most difficult aspect of the process?   what should I practice? Placing the guides just takes time & trial and error, ditto on wrapping them. If you’re going to shape your own grip that would be where to practice. If using a pre-built grip practice reaming the hole while still keeping it centered. But the real thing to practice I think is mixing, applying and drying the varnish. Try it a couple times on an old rod just to make sure you get the results you expect before going ‘live’. If you plan on modifying the blank for any reason (by cutting it) you definitely want a couple cheap guinea pigs.

One of the keys to working with Flex-coat type finishes or other epoxies is consistent temperature.  I like to work in the 75 degree (F) range and keep an aquarium thermometer on my work surface.  A normal desk lamp will keep the temp consistent and can its height can be adjusted accordingly (if your epoxy starts smoking, your area is too hot )  Keep the light on throughout the curing process.   Yet another inquiry:  what is your preferred method of finishing (tying off) the wraps?  Do most folks use the method Garcia talks about in his book (pulling the thread underneath the wraps with a loop of guitar string or similar, and then while the thread is still under the wraps pulling the thread and loop in opposite directions until the thread breaks)?  Or is there a more preferred method? I just use a piece of tying thread as the loop, pull it until it is under only the last 2 or 3 wraps, then cut it with a little exacto knife. Don’t get too much thread under the wrap or you’ll get nubs and they never really burn off that well.

So he uses the guitar string to cut the thread?  I think I’ll stick to a razor blade.  The blade should cut the thread with the slightest touch.  If it doesn’t, change blades.  On wraps in general, be consistent from guide to guide. Keep count of the number of turns.  If you take 10 turns before jumping on to the foot, do it on all the guides the same way.  Attention to detail is key. Relax, your rod’s going to fish fine when you’re done.   Ross

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 My question is:  instead of – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -risking a messy/lousy job on an expensive blank should I build a practice rod on a cheaper or blemished/second rod blank first?  I would like my SP rod to be without too many major errors, cosmetic or otherwise.  I intend to go slow and carefully.  Is that all I need to do or are there certain mistakes that I must learn first in order to avoid later? Follow up questions:  what is the most difficult aspect of the process?   what should I practice? Yet another inquiry:  what is your preferred method of finishing (tying off) the wraps?  Do most folks use the method Garcia talks about in his book (pulling the thread underneath the wraps with a loop of guitar string or similar, and then while the thread is still under the wraps pulling the thread and loop in opposite directions until the thread breaks)?  Or is there a more preferred method?

Here’s an idea I haven;t seen posted here before: instead of practicing on a cheap blank you probably won’t fish with anyway, buy a 3′ length of wodden dowling from your local hardware store (less than $1) and pretend it’s a blank.  Practice placing guides, wrapping them and finishing.   Then you’ll be ready for the real thing. The most difficult aspect of the process, IMO, is wrapping, especially if you are fussy about appearance.  Which leads to your last question: I haven’t heard of that technique before, but it sounds like it will result in frayed thread ends sticking out of the wraps.  A neater solution is to pull up on the thread end at a 90 degree angle to the blank and cut with a very sharp exacto knofe as close to the wraps as possible.  More often than not, the cut end is snaps back under the wrap.

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| Hello All: | | my first foray into the rod building world.  My question is:  instead of | risking a messy/lousy job on an expensive blank should I build a practice | rod on a cheaper or blemished/second rod blank first?  I would like my SP | | Follow up questions:  what is the most difficult aspect of the process?   | what should I practice? | Andy OK I was in this position about 8 months ago.  Since then I have built two rods, a Loomis IM6 8′ 6wt and a IMX 9′ 9wt.  I dont think you need to practice on anything cheaper than what you want to fish with.  There is no magic to building a graphite rod, and you really don’t need any of the stands that are sold as wrapping stands.  I used the Morris book which explained everything well enough.  I used the dish method to hold the thread and a Law book for tensioning.  Wraps are comparatively easy to do and you can redo any of them if you feel they are not up to par untill you flex coat them.  I did a couple of wraps on a dowell to get the hang of it.  Finishing a wrap by pulling it under the last 1/2 dozen wraps with another piece of string then I cut it flush with a new X-acto blade.  I can’t tell the diference between my wraps and Loomis Sage et al and I’m pretty picky.  Things get a bit tricky if you want to include embedded trim rings but you probably won’t bother on your first attempt. The only thing I’ve had trouble with is a inlayed wrap of only one thread.         The only thing I havn’t done is apply the flex coat myself (the place I bought everything else will flex coat as a service).  I did buy some and I did a wrap on a section of a metal rod and coat it.  It came out OK not meny bubbles – and I wasn’t being careful in the mixing process – decided to let the store do it because hand turning it was a pain in the you-know-what and I didn’t want to buy a turner then.  I’m currently making a turner out of an old electric clock and I’ll do everything myself next time (I’ll still buy preformed grips). Good luck and have fun. PVM — / Paul V. Moruzzi                                                       | Patient Monitoring Division (PMD)                                     | | Hewlett Packard                           HP Telnet: 1-659-7850       | | 3000 Minuteman Road                           Voice: 1-508-659-7850   | | Andover, Ma.  01810-1099                        Fax: 1-508-685-5372   |

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Hello All: A query for those of you versed in the fine art of rod building:  I am intending to build myself a rod on a Sage SP blank when they become available in March.  However, I have some trepidations as this would be my first foray into the rod building world.  My question is:  instead of risking a messy/lousy job on an expensive blank should I build a practice rod on a cheaper or blemished/second rod blank first?  I would like my SP rod to be without too many major errors, cosmetic or otherwise.  I intend to go slow and carefully.  Is that all I need to do or are there certain mistakes that I must learn first in order to avoid later?

The first rod I built was on a cheap ($60) blank from a now defunct company. Everything worked fine, the glue jobs all held, etc., but there were some cosmetic touches that were beyond my capability at the time, so naturally I went on to build another and so on and so :- I don’t get too gaudy, in fact I don’t even use a trim band anymore, but I do like a single inlaid thread at the butt and at each ferrule. At first getting these right was maddening and very time consuming, but failure doesn’t wreck the blank, so you can start over again. By the time I bought a good blank I’d built 3 or 4 rods and it came out exactly like I wanted it to. Follow up questions:  what is the most difficult aspect of the process?   what should I practice?

Placing the guides just takes time & trial and error, ditto on wrapping them. If you’re going to shape your own grip that would be where to practice. If using a pre-built grip practice reaming the hole while still keeping it centered. But the real thing to practice I think is mixing, applying and drying the varnish. Try it a couple times on an old rod just to make sure you get the results you expect before going ‘live’. If you plan on modifying the blank for any reason (by cutting it) you definitely want a couple cheap guinea pigs. Yet another inquiry:  what is your preferred method of finishing (tying off) the wraps?  Do most folks use the method Garcia talks about in his book (pulling the thread underneath the wraps with a loop of guitar string or similar, and then while the thread is still under the wraps pulling the thread and loop in opposite directions until the thread breaks)?  Or is there a more preferred method?

I just use a piece of tying thread as the loop, pull it until it is under only the last 2 or 3 wraps, then cut it with a little exacto knife. Don’t get too much thread under the wrap or you’ll get nubs and they never really burn off that well. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Thanks for any info you can share. Andy

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Hello All: A query for those of you versed in the fine art of rod building:  I am intending to build myself a rod on a Sage SP blank when they become available in March.  However, I have some trepidations as this would be my first foray into the rod building world.  My question is:  instead of risking a messy/lousy job on an expensive blank should I build a practice rod on a cheaper or blemished/second rod blank first?  I would like my SP rod to be without too many major errors, cosmetic or otherwise.  I intend to go slow and carefully.  Is that all I need to do or are there certain mistakes that I must learn first in order to avoid later? Follow up questions:  what is the most difficult aspect of the process?   what should I practice? Yet another inquiry:  what is your preferred method of finishing (tying off) the wraps?  Do most folks use the method Garcia talks about in his book (pulling the thread underneath the wraps with a loop of guitar string or similar, and then while the thread is still under the wraps pulling the thread and loop in opposite directions until the thread breaks)?  Or is there a more preferred method? Thanks for any info you can share. Andy

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Question:

I am new to the midwest and a local suggested I try the Pere Marquette. We live in Chicago, so I thought we’d make a weekend of the trip. I would appreciate the what, when, where, and how’s of fly fishing there for Salmon. Suggested camp grounds would be appreciated, as well as best route from Chicago and approximate travel time. Thanxs in advance, Bryan

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I am new to the midwest and a local suggested I try the Pere Marquette. We live in Chicago, so I thought we’d make a weekend of the trip. I would appreciate the what, when, where, and how’s of fly fishing there for Salmon. Suggested camp grounds would be appreciated, as well as best route from Chicago and approximate travel time. Thanxs in advance, Bryan

                                   * I am a native to MI (at least I am now) and I visit the PM rather frequently. If you email me at home I can give you phone numbers and the like for my favorite lodge.  I really like the Johnsons Pere Marquette lodge.  I have stayed there for only $35-/night midweek during the salmon season.  I don’t know what it is this year.  I now have a cabin of my own up there only 7 min. from the flies only water of the PM.  I suggest that you go mid-week if you can.  If you go, try to find the most inaccessible spot you can.  The river is so full of salmon you can practically walk across on their backs, in any hole in the river.  The trick is finding a place with few enough fellow fishermen that the fish haven’t already been spooked into oblivion.  A drift boat with a guide is an excellent solution if you have the money.  I have not done that yet, though.  The Johnsons lodge is also an Orvis shop (sorry) but they really are nice anyway.  They give away a really good map of the flies only section of the river.  It helps a lot.  Good luck.                                     * Lenny Bloksberg . . .

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