Question:

I contracted food posioning which turned into Guillian Barre Syndrome which left me totally parilized. I have been in recovery for three years and have regained use of my upper body and my lower body is starting to move.

You might find this useful; http://www.fishing-hunting.com/fishingnews/terrylawton/article3.htm TL MC

Response:

Scott, that’s pretty much the way it works here except this may vary according to the library’s program… The feature here is called ‘ILL’ (Inter Library Loan). My Library’s website does not search the interlibrary loan database. That search (for a particular book) has to be done by the librarian.. There is a cost….50 cents.,…..to read any book out there and man there is a lot! We’re talking collectors items…oops. john

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  I contracted food posioning which turned into Guillian Barre Syndrome  which left me totally parilized. I have been in recovery for three years and have regained use of my upper body and my lower body is starting to move.Before my illness I lived to fish and flyfished anytime I could.My local Libary carries very few fly fishing titles and most are old. My question is are there any online libaries or sources that loan books? I was buying some used but I have a wife and three kids so have to watch the budget.Are there any good web sights that have alot of info on fly tieing and fishing. Thank you. KCL ”I’m Ready , Im Ready”   ~Spongebob Squarepants~ You didn’t mention your location (big city, small town).  Most libraries I know of have extensive interlibrary loan programs these days, and the service has been way enhanced in recent years by the internet. Find the books you want, via fishing mags, fishing sites, or even Amazon’s search engine (which I go to before trying my university library search if I need an ISBN number), then go to your libraries web site and request the book.  You’ll get an email when it gets in, and your wife or you can pick it up. If you have trouble, call the reference desk at your library and see if they can help.  Librarians can be very creative to meet special needs. Also, call your state conservation office to find out if there are any special opportunities for handicapped fisherman.  Whether you’re ready for it today or need to wait a little more into your recovery, eventually you’ll want to get out and there are ways to facilitate that. Good Luck, Scott

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  I contracted food posioning which turned into Guillian Barre Syndrome  which left me totally parilized. I have been in recovery for three years and have regained use of my upper body and my lower body is starting to move.Before my illness I lived to fish and flyfished anytime I could.My local Libary carries very few fly fishing titles and most are old. My question is are there any online libaries or sources that loan books? I was buying some used but I have a wife and three kids so have to watch the budget.Are there any good web sights that have alot of info on fly tieing and fishing. Thank you. KCL ”I’m Ready , Im Ready”   ~Spongebob Squarepants~

You didn’t mention your location (big city, small town).  Most libraries I know of have extensive interlibrary loan programs these days, and the service has been way enhanced in recent years by the internet. Find the books you want, via fishing mags, fishing sites, or even Amazon’s search engine (which I go to before trying my university library search if I need an ISBN number), then go to your libraries web site and request the book.  You’ll get an email when it gets in, and your wife or you can pick it up. If you have trouble, call the reference desk at your library and see if they can help.  Librarians can be very creative to meet special needs. Also, call your state conservation office to find out if there are any special opportunities for handicapped fisherman.  Whether you’re ready for it today or need to wait a little more into your recovery, eventually you’ll want to get out and there are ways to facilitate that. Good Luck, Scott

Response:

 I contracted food posioning which turned into Guillian Barre Syndrome which left me totally parilized. I have been in recovery for three years and have regained use of my upper body and my lower body is starting to move.Before my illness I lived to fish and flyfished anytime I could.My local Libary carries very few fly fishing titles and most are old. My question is are there any online libaries or sources that loan books? I was buying some used but I have a wife and three kids so have to watch the budget.Are there any good web sights that have alot of info on fly tieing and fishing. Thank you. KCL ”I’m Ready , Im Ready”   ~Spongebob Squarepants~

Response:

Question:

Finally!!!! a pertinent post to ROFF!!! waldo

#1 pickup line…."hey, nice tooth". Natty

Response:

Thanks to all who have given their advice regarding my trip to somewhere in Maine in late June.  From what I have gleaned from your responses, I believe that I will have my best success on either the Rapid or the East outlet of Moosehead Lake. It sounds like I can not go wrong with either of these pieces of water.  If these waters are comparable, what are some of the things that would make you prefer one of these rivers over another? Quality fishing, lack of crowds, nearby lodges, wildness of scenery, etc.. Thanks, Brooktrout22 Ed

Response:

Brooktrout22 writes: It sounds like I can not go wrong with either of these pieces of water.  If these waters are comparable, what are some of the things that would make you prefer one of these rivers over another? Quality fishing, lack of crowds, nearby lodges, wildness of scenery, etc.. Thanks, Brooktrout22 Ed

Ed, Lakewood Camps is super.  You can go to The East Outlet and you’ll probably catch fish, but Lakewood’s food and atmosphere is tops.  Plus, I think the Rapid fishes better than the East Outlet, with less crowds.  You can *drive* to the East Outlet.   You can’t drive to Lakewood (it is gated).  A boat picks you up at South Arm.    "Outsiders" have to either boat or walk in, so it is less crowded than EO.    The only time I fish EO is in October when the crowds are nil and it is the only place you can still fish.  JMO, of course.  I will be at Lakewood in late June  (25 – 30) with my grandsons and could help you with the river.  Both rivers have their idiosyncrasies. Dave L.

Response:

If these waters are comparable, what are some of the things that would make you prefer one of these rivers over another?

Hard question. Tough choice. There are camps at the headwaters of the Outlet and also at Middledam on the Rapid. I can’t vouch for the outlet as I’ve never stayed there, but Lakewood camps are quite nice and they take good care of you. Plan on gaining weight if you stay there. Both rivers are fairly wild once you get downstream a bit. I expect that the ‘famous’ pools of each have their crowds, and both have plenty of water if you’re willing to walk a bit. Based on my limited fishing of the Rapid my opinion is that the outlet has more large fish, but you will catch more fish at the Rapid and the Rapid also has the opportunity for you to catch a genuine wild brookie of prodigious size. To be fair to the outlet there are some very large brookies there as well, but it’s reputation is that of a salmon river, not a brook trout river. I once even caught a fairly skinny toque (Lake Trout) in the outlet as well that fought about as hard as 2 foot stick. late June is prime time on both rivers, the outlet will run more to generic caddis and stonefly hatches, with a few selected mayflies mixed in. The Rapid is rumored to have a fairly substantial Alder fly hatch in late June. I expect to day trip up for some of that action this summer. You didn’t say if you were interested in a guide. On the east outlet there are a couple of guide services that will run the entire river in a drift boat, something I highly recommend. I believe that the Rapid tends more to a wading experience with the exception of Pond in the River. This is not to suggest that the outlet isn’t wadable, it is, but it has a series of fairly large and deep pools that cannot be completely covered while wading. The outlet offers the opportunity to sample the extensive night life in Greenville and Rockwood (I’m a lumberjack and I’m ok, I work all night….everyone join in now:-)) and to easily visit the Roach and with a 2 hour drive and a couple of paper company gates, the West Branch. Or head north 30-40 mins and fish the Moose River where it dumps into Moosehead Lake. Lakewood will offer you a nice cabin, with lights and showers, incredible food (plan on gaining weight) and an easy walk to the fishing beginning at Middle Dam. Flyfish

Response:

Thanks to all for your advice.  I will see you on the Rapid in late June. Brooktrout

Response:

The outlet offers the opportunity to sample the extensive night life in Greenville and Rockwood

LOL.   You mean the ceremonial rolling up of the sidewalks?  (in the few spots they actually have sidewalks.)  :-) Joe F.

Response:

Joe Fleischman writes: The outlet offers the opportunity to sample the extensive night life in Greenville and Rockwood LOL.   You mean the ceremonial rolling up of the sidewalks?  (in the few spots they actually have sidewalks.)  :-) Joe F.

Hey, the pizza parlor in beautiful downtown Greenvile stays open until 11 pm – Dave

Response:

Caviasco writes: Thanks to all for your advice.  I will see you on the Rapid in late June.

I’ll be the old guy with two tall teenage boys. Dave LaCourse

Response:

Caviasco;   Can’t go wrong with either choice. My only complaint about staying at Lakewood–which I have many times–was the meal schedule. They serve dinner from 6:30 to 8 pm in the evening–EXACTLY when I want to be on the river on a June evening.    Most of the guys staying there were in the dining area–while–as a "hard-core"–I was eating a sandwich out on the Rapid.   By staying at camps on the East Outlet I find I can arrange my meal schedule to suit  my needs–around the best fishing times. That’s the only complaint I had about Lakewood. Great camps–great people–great fishing. You’ll have a wonderful time.    Dave M

Response:

Dave M. writes: My only complaint about staying at Lakewood–which I have many times–was the meal schedule. They serve dinner from 6:30 to 8 pm in the evening–EXACTLY when I want to be on the river on a June evening.

Psssst.   Shhhhhhhh.  (speaking softly) Don’t tell anyone, but you can have your meal served to you in your cabin *after* 8 p.m.  Extra charge of course.   Few know about it. Dave L.

Response:

Dammit you bottom feeder, why didn’t you share that with us during the clave! Of course I could have been broke by the end of the clave… Flyfish

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dave M. writes: My only complaint about staying at Lakewood–which I have many times–was the meal schedule. They serve dinner from 6:30 to 8 pm in the evening–EXACTLY when I want to be on the river on a June evening. Psssst.   Shhhhhhhh.  (speaking softly) Don’t tell anyone, but you can have your meal served to you in your cabin *after* 8 p.m.  Extra charge of course. Few know about it. Dave L.

Response:

Psssst.   Shhhhhhhh.  (speaking softly) Don’t tell anyone, but you can have your meal served to you in your cabin *after* 8 p.m.  Extra charge of course. Few know about it.

The other thing you can do is cheat back the show-up time a bit. I spent my time at Lakewood trying to figure out what the *latest* possible time was that I could show up for meals and not lose out. I also tried to figure out how to get up and get ready in the morning without waking up Jeff Miller. An impossible task. I defy anyone to pre-rise Jeff at the Penn Clave. –Steve

Response:

Dave B. writes: Dammit you bottom feeder, why didn’t you share that with us during the clave! Of course I could have been broke by the end of the clave…

Well, I would have, but I figured an intimate dinner by candle light  with Paul, Dave, and Dave  would have been too much for you.  <g   What Dave M. says has some merit, but if you eat at 6:30, you can be back on the river by 7.  I’ve done it myself many times.  Or, you can get your big streamers and a 6 or 7 weight and go to the dam and chuck for big brookies/salmon.  I took a 4 pound brookie on a green ghost last September at the dam after dinner. Dave LaCourse Pirate and Bottom Dweller

Response:

LOL.   You mean the ceremonial rolling up of the sidewalks?  (in the few spots they actually have sidewalks.)  :-)

If you fish the West Branch, there’s a girly bar in T2R9 just outside Millinockett.  Actually, there’s a girly bar there even if you don’t fish the West Branch.

Response:

If you fish the West Branch, there’s a girly bar in T2R9 just outside Millinockett.  Actually, there’s a girly bar there even if you don’t fish the West Branch.

Ya know, now that I think of it, I lived in Millinocket for 2 years and never once went into "La Casa", starting to wonder if I was sick at the time . Of course what looks great to a lumberjack after a week in a tiny trailer somewhere out off the Golden road might not be up to my exacting standards. For the out of staters, also affectionately called flatlanders, T2R9 is township 2 range 9, otherwise known as an ‘unincorporated township’ meaning most likely no one lives there except the critters, there is no local government, no local taxes except at the county and state level. Almost heaven except for the (usually) exceptionally long drive to anywhere that has gas, food, entertainment etc. In the case of La Casa, the adult entertainment megacenter of Penobscot County, it’s wedged right between East Millinocket and Millinocket. Imagine the chagrin when the town counsel of East Millinocket discovered that La Casa was NOT located in the town thereof and was therefore not subject to their attempt to zone it out of existence (true story). Flyfish

Response:

LOL.   You mean the ceremonial rolling up of the sidewalks?  (in the few spots they actually have sidewalks.)  :-) If you fish the West Branch, there’s a girly bar in T2R9 just outside Millinockett.  Actually, there’s a girly bar there even if you don’t fish the West Branch.

Finally!!!! a pertinent post to ROFF!!! waldo

Response:

Zimbo writes: I also tried to figure out how to get up and get ready in the morning without waking up Jeff Miller. An impossible task. I defy anyone to pre-rise Jeff at the Penn Clave.

Can’t be done.  Will never be done.  That’s why he’s the official coffee maker whenever he’s around.  That’s all we let him do, though.  Coffee, just coffee……good too… Dave LaCourse Pirate and Bottom Dweller

Response:

Rory McQuillan writes: If you fish the West Branch, there’s a girly bar in T2R9 just outside Millinockett.  Actually, there’s a girly bar there even if you don’t fish the West Branch.

<g  Better explain to our non-Maine friends what a "T2R9" is, Rory.  And our southern brethren call dem places "titty bars".  <g   Dave LaCourse Pirate and Bottom Dweller

Response:

Rory McQuillan writes: If you fish the West Branch, there’s a girly bar in T2R9 just outside Millinockett.  Actually, there’s a girly bar there even if you don’t fish the West Branch. <g  Better explain to our non-Maine friends what a "T2R9" is, Rory.  And our southern brethren call dem places "titty bars".  <g Dave LaCourse Pirate and Bottom Dweller

Yeah, but do them girlys do back massages?  In the water? Frank (oh,the pain!) Church

Response:

Question:

As soon as the head is dry, I’ll scan in my first attempt at a neutral buoyancy perch fly and post it to ABPF. The recipe is: Hook:  Rangley 1/0 8X Thread: Uni-thread 3/0 olive Body:  Float foam cut to body shape and loosely tied on. Covered in braided silver mylar tube then covered with pearlescent translucent braided mylar tube. Throat:  Red Floss Belly:  White calf tail. Underwing:  Chartruese Krystal flash Wing:  Chartruese bucktail Overwing: Olive polar bear (substitute olive bucktail) Bars: black permanent marker. Eyes:  Gold and black stick-on We’ll see if it works on Saturday. Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

I’m an old pike and bass fisherman so it’ll be tough for me to get out of the habit of a firm set when I get that hard smash and big swirl from a big brown.

I trained myself to do this, against instinct, when fishing for bass with minnows on the bottom.  I would use a slip sinker and let the fish run with the minnow until it was "home" or wherever it took it and started to swallow it. The harder the strike, the faster I’d try to drop that rod tip.  A test of nerves, actually, for a young guy to watch that line go out and resist striking.  I’m not suggesting you let a trout run with a streamer, of course. Regards, Jeff

Response:

I use a pattern for smallmouth bass that imitates a stunned, drifting minnow very well – Harry Murray’s Strymph in white. Streamer hook weight the body with lead wire white ostrich herl tail – 8-12 pieces dubbed rabbit fur body (loop dubbed for long shaggy look) long grizzly collar I use a little weight, more toward the head, to give the fly that injured minnow look. I bet it would work well at night – pushes a lot of water.

Response:

I use a pattern for smallmouth bass that imitates a stunned, drifting minnow very well – Harry Murray’s Strymph in white. Streamer hook weight the body with lead wire white ostrich herl tail – 8-12 pieces dubbed rabbit fur body (loop dubbed for long shaggy look) long grizzly collar I use a little weight, more toward the head, to give the fly that injured minnow look. I bet it would work well at night – pushes a lot of water.

My son has had good success with browns at a local pond using white conehead woolly buggers – same general idea. Peter

Response:

Sorry about the interruption. The last trip to the Grand produced a ton of strikes and few fish.  I was using a leftover green ghost from Maine and stripping it fast across current.  About two out of three casts produced a strike with one being hard enough to bend the hook shank yet I only hooked about a half-dozen.  The general consensus around the coffee pot at the flyshop was – the fly was moving so fast and shallow, the browns were whacking it to stun it so they could then swallow it at their lesiure. Since they discovered the fraud on the first hit, they never came back for seconds. This Saturday, I plan on working a weighted perch bucktail pattern much deeper and slower to see if the hookup rate improves.  Anybody else ever encounter this? Peter We now return you to your regularly scheduled political debate.

Response:

Hi Peter, this is fairly common on stillwaters, and occasionally in rivers, most especially with brown trout.  They attack a baitfish to stun or maim it, and then return to leisurely mop it up.  The trick here is, as soon as you get a strike, slacken up, and even pay out line if necessary, so that your streamer tumbles and sinks as if wounded or stunned. Surprisingly this often results in a solid take, when the attacking fish returns to mop it up. Fish are sometimes hooked quite deeply doing this, as they take very confidently indeed, knowing that the "stunned" fish can not escape. The only difficulty involved sometimes, is actually detecting the take itself, although as I said, most such fish take so confidently and deeply, that you can not miss them, often you will see the slack line shooting away as the fish swims off with its prize, which it has taken "on the drop"..  I usually wait about fifteen seconds or so after "slackening up", fish the cast out dead drift, and then either strike when the line moves, or simply tighten up again, invariably the fish is on.  In fast water five seconds should be enough.  Once a fish hits a baitfish, it does not expect it to keep on swimming or "fleeing" as normal, and you are unlikely to get a second hit on the same streamer from the same fish using a "normal" fast retrieve. I think it unlikely that fish detect the fraud so easily on the take, especially with streamers, as many bait fish have hard fins etc, and this does not prevent the fish attacking them. If the fish is pricked on the first hit,( especially enough to bend a hook ),  it might not come back, but this has not been my experience.  Most of my really large fish have been caught in this manner, usually at night. This behaviour is most predominant when bait fish ( like minnows etc ) are shoaling, but may actually occur at any time. One stream I fish has a good population of bullheads, and a muddler minnow fished deep in this manner invariably accounts for a couple of good fish at any time. Nearly all the fish are taken "on the drop", after the first strike, although occasionally one is hooked directly, although often with a bad hookhold, which leads me to believe that the fish are not trying to take it the first time around, but stun, or kill it, with the specific intention of mopping up the result. Fishing deep and slow usually results in less hits in such circumstances, but more solid "direct" hook ups, the fish then being hooked when it strikes the first time.. TL MC — "If you have tried everything you know, and nothing works, then perhaps it is time to accept that you don

Question:

Thinking of Belize next Feb/March primarily for diving. Anyone got any information good/bad

Response:

I was there a number of years ago and plan to go back. Inaddition to the usual dive cites, Check out Placentia on the coast. — Dennis Gibbons CN35-207 S/V Dark Lady

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thinking of Belize next Feb/March primarily for diving. Anyone got any information good/bad

Response:

The diving’s great, as there is a barrier reef off the coast (I think I read that it’s the second largest in the world after Australia).  We saw intense coral formations, lots of beautiful fish, whale sharks, rays, etc. Where we were in Placencia, there was NO diving off of the beach. typically the dive boats took us out to one of the cayes. Callen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thinking of Belize next Feb/March primarily for diving. Anyone got any information good/bad

Response:

Thinking of Belize next Feb/March primarily for diving. Anyone got any information good/bad

There are tons of terrific Web sites on Belize.  I believe that Belize has more Web sites than any other country its size in the world.  Beisides our own Web edition, I especially like the Belize by Natural Light sites and the AmbergrisCaye.com site. I edit and publish a magazine on Belize — e-mail us if you have questions, and we’ll try to answer them. –Lan Sluder Lan Sluder Editor & Publisher BELIZE FIRST MAGAZINE Free Web edition (600 + pages of ad-free information) at http://www.turq.com/belizefirst/

Response:

Hi We went to Belize in February ‘97 and had an amazing time. Stayed in Belize City and did some day trips, then San Pedro for a couple of days. The snorkelling was incredible, so I imagine the diving is even better. Macy’s in Belize City is great place to eat. Scott – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thinking of Belize next Feb/March primarily for diving. Anyone got any information good/bad

Response:

Thinking of Belize next Feb/March primarily for diving. Anyone got any information good/bad

Hi Bernie, Belize is great because they have not ruined it yet. It is still pretty untouched. Get a Belize guide book by Moon Publications. Most divers stay out on Ambergris Cay in or near the town of San Pedro.  You are in a nice little town on an island of the coast from Belize City. You can also stay out at one of the remote dive lodges on one of the three atolls off the coast past the reef in the Blue Water. On Turneffe Atoll, you can stay at Black Bird Resort, Turneffe Flats Lodge or Turneffe Island Lodge. On Lighthouse Atoll, you can stay at Lighthouse Reef Resort where they have the famous Blue Hole. On Glover’s Atoll, you can stay at Manta Reef Resort. This is one of the most remote palces in Belize. On South Water Cay, you can stay at the Blue Marlin Lodge right of the barrier reef. All these places have web sites now. I go to Belize to fly fish for bonefish, tarpon, permit and snook. I can help you there if you need any. I like Placencia too.  www.placencia.com Look at the Belize First site.

Response:

Question:

I am moving to the mexican interior for a year (Michoacan) and am looking for some suggestion for non-coastal fly fishing.  I know the mountain sttreams hold some trout but I know no more.  Thanks very much for any suggestions.

Response:

You might look around for some Cyclids.  (I believe that spelling is right). Peacock Bass are member of this family.  They behave like bluegills.  The northernmost occurs in South Texas and is called the Rio Grande Perch.  They will take flies and fight like hell. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I am moving to the mexican interior for a year (Michoacan) and am looking for some suggestion for non-coastal fly fishing.  I know the mountain sttreams hold some trout but I know no more.  Thanks very much for any suggestions.

Response:

Question:

Maurice writes: <Anyone know of a good book or guide service to begin exploring

flyfishing in Washington state? Maurice, there is a book out called something like "Flyfishing Washingtons Lakes" and is in most fly shops.  The book is well written and appears to be a source of accurate information.  It covers both West side and East side lakes. I don’t seem to recall any information about rivers but I am sure many of the West side anglers can give you a rundown here in this newsgroup. If you need information regarding East side lakes such as Lenice, Lenore, Dry Falls, Potholes, Amber etc or information on the North Central Lakes such as Chopaka or Blue, let me know and I will email you some information. Mike Wilson Spokane, WA

Response:

Anyone know of a good book or guide service to begin exploring flyfishing in Washington state?

Since flyfish4770 has the eastside covered, I can offer advice and places on the west side (west of seattle, olympic peninsula).  Lots of good lakes and some good rivers in the area.  There’s a couple of books that describe most of the body of waters in Washington.  They aren’t neccessarily flyfish specific, but they’ll give you an idea of whats available and how to access them.   Unfortunately all my guide books are in my car and I can’t recall the names… matthew           Matthew W Kaphan    http://home.sprintmail.com/~mwk            Silverdale, WA

Response:

Anyone know of a good book or guide service to begin exploring flyfishing in Washington state?

Response:

I just moved out not too long ago.  I picked up Washington Fishing from www.amazon.com.  It covers more than 1000 spots on streams, rivers, lakes, and the coast.  It covers fishing in general (not just fly fishing), but was a good place to start.  I also got a lot of help from people on this newsgroup on places to go. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone know of a good book or guide service to begin exploring flyfishing in Washington state?

Response:

Question:

I am planning to go to British Columbia around the first of August for 7-9 days of first class fly-fishing for trout. I have never been there and need a recommendation for a lodge that has full ammenities and guide service with fly-outs. Jeff

Response:

Jeff, You can go to this page and take your choice: http://www.oppub.com/bin/html I recommend the following: Bare Lake Resort Charles & Jean Forrest/Phil & Betty Teichgrab Box 1248 Kamloops ,BC  V2C 6H3 Tel: 250-319-5511; mesg.604-858-3678  Fax: 604-858-8008 High Country Douglas Lake Ranch Resort http://www.douglaslake.com/ Carlo Elstak General Delivery Douglas Lake ,BC  V0E 1S0 Tel: 250-371-7206/250-350-3344/1-800-663-4838  Fax: 250-350-3336 High Country Northern Woodsman Lodge http://www.northernwoodsman.com/ Les and Michelle Allen P.O. Box 26025 Westbank, B.C., Canada V4T 2G3 Phone/Fax: (250) 769-7642 Paul Phillips Director of Operations Fintastic Fish Mounts http://www.fintastic.com take off the 1 for E-mail – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am planning to go to British Columbia around the first of August for 7-9 days of first class fly-fishing for trout. I have never been there and need a recommendation for a lodge that has full ammenities and guide service with fly-outs. Jeff

Response:

I could recommend a couple, but you really need to contact Dick McMaster, the director of the BC Fishing Resorts and Outfitters Association at (250) 828-1553. Or you can drop them a letter at P.O. box 3301, Kamloops, British Columbia, Canada, V2C 6B9 This guy is a wealth of knowledge and it’s his job to help people just like you, looking for a lodge. Good Luck. And please tell him Bill Luscombe told you to call him. Thanks. Bill – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am planning to go to British Columbia around the first of August for 7-9 days of first class fly-fishing for trout. I have never been there and need a recommendation for a lodge that has full ammenities and guide service with fly-outs. Jeff

Response:

Question:

To the best of my knowledge, the weights I provided in my earlier post are generally applicably to various types of fly lines including floating, sinking, DT, etc. To check this out, I tried the "weigh the first 30 feet" method on a sinking "Rocket Taper" line that I knew to be a #7, and it weighed-out correctly at just slightly over the nominal given for a #7 line. Also, even though the weight of the first 30 feet of this line is essentially the same as its #7 floating counterpart, the sinking line is much thinner than the floating, thereby increasing its density. The more I think about this, the more sense it makes. Since the weight of the line is matched to the rod (so that the latter loads properly) you’d want to have the same rod loading behavior regardless of the type of line, it’s taper, and whether floating or sinking. So, since the rod doesn’t care about the thickness of the line, the first 30 feet of all #7 lines (for example) should have about the same weight. Bill Howe Boulder, CO

Response:

Going through some old fishing stuff last weekend, I came upon a reel I used a few years ago, before I "got serious" about fly fishing. I have completely forgotten what weight line I have on this reel, although I am confident it’s a floating DT. I’ve been advised that the only way to infer the weight of this line is to cast it on various rods until I find a rod weight on which it "feels right." I’m willing to give this a try, but first wanted to ask the newsgroup if there are any other techniques (measuring, weighing, etc.) that can give me a close approximation? Also, to avoid a repeat of this problem, how do folks who have multiple lines lying around "mark" them so this crutial information isn’t lost? Thanks. Bill Howe Boulder, CO

Response:

Going through some old fishing stuff last weekend, I came upon a reel I used a few years ago, before I "got serious" about fly fishing. I have completely forgotten what weight line I have on this reel, although I am confident it’s a floating DT. I’ve been advised that the only way to infer the weight of this line is to cast it on various rods until I find a rod weight on which it "feels right." I’m willing to give this a try, but first wanted to ask the newsgroup if there are any other techniques (measuring, weighing, etc.) that can give me a close approximation? Also, to avoid a repeat of this problem, how do folks who have multiple lines lying around "mark" them so this crutial information isn’t lost? Thanks. Bill Howe Boulder, CO

Hi bill, We use a micrometer to measure the belly of the line. We can tell what weight they are from the diameter using factory charts. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Going through some old fishing stuff last weekend, I came upon a reel I used a few years ago, before I "got serious" about fly fishing. I have completely forgotten what weight line I have on this reel, although I am confident it’s a floating DT. I’ve been advised that the only way to infer the weight of this line is to cast it on various rods until I find a rod weight on which it "feels right." I’m willing to give this a try, but first wanted to ask the newsgroup if there are any other techniques (measuring, weighing, etc.) that can give me a close approximation? Also, to avoid a repeat of this problem, how do folks who have multiple lines lying around "mark" them so this crutial information isn’t lost? Thanks. Bill Howe Boulder, CO

Fly lines are rated by the weight of their first thirty feet.  You can weigh this amount of line if you have a powder scale or other suitable scale and compare the known weight of the line against a standard.    If you don’t have a chart and can’t find one at the local fly shop, send me a note. I have a chart around somewhere. — Tim Ackerman "everyone lives downstream"

Response:

Also, to avoid a repeat of this problem, how do folks who have multiple lines lying around "mark" them so this crutial information isn’t lost? Thanks.

Mark your reels with a piece of white tape such as used for price tags. You can either type or mark with indelible pen the type and weight of line on the reel. Do this for all reels. Who knows which reel is going to lay around next long enough to be forgotten. Regards, Steve

Response:

Thanks to all who responded. I dug out an old powder scale and have successfully identified the weight of my mystery line by weighing the first 30 feet. The process of doing this is a little awkward, but it worked well. I tested this approach on a line that I knew to be a #8, and the first 30 feet weighed out at 211 grains … almost right on the nominal 210 grains in published data. For others in the newsgroup that may want to try this technique, here’s a table of weights per first 30 feet for different lines (BTW, there are 7,000 grains per pound). I got the weight values below from the excellent and graphically-intensive book "The Curtis Creek Manifesto" acquired from Timberline Sporting Goods in Casper, Wyoming. AFTMA Weight #   Grains/1st 30 feet 4           120 5           140 6           160 7           185 8           210 9           240 10          280 The technique I used to weigh my lines was to strip and measure 30 feet of fly line off my reel, bundle it (as one would a rope), and then set the bundle on the scale with the rest of the flyline resting gently on the benchtop. In one case, I left the leader attached as well, also allowing this to rest on the benchtop. The leader and remaining line will affect the weight measurement, but I found this affect to be only a few grains … not enough to make the line weight catagorization ambiguous. Bill Howe Boulder, CO

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks to all who responded. I dug out an old powder scale and have successfully identified the weight of my mystery line by weighing the first 30 feet. The process of doing this is a little awkward, but it worked well. I tested this approach on a line that I knew to be a #8, and the first 30 feet weighed out at 211 grains … almost right on the nominal 210 grains in published data. For others in the newsgroup that may want to try this technique, here’s a table of weights per first 30 feet for different lines (BTW, there are 7,000 grains per pound). I got the weight values below from the excellent and graphically-intensive book "The Curtis Creek Manifesto" acquired from Timberline Sporting Goods in Casper, Wyoming. AFTMA Weight #   Grains/1st 30 feet 4           120 5           140 6           160 7           185 8           210 9           240 10          280 The technique I used to weigh my lines was to strip and measure 30 feet of fly line off my reel, bundle it (as one would a rope), and then set the bundle on the scale with the rest of the flyline resting gently on the benchtop. In one case, I left the leader attached as well, also allowing this to rest on the benchtop. The leader and remaining line will affect the weight measurement, but I found this affect to be only a few grains … not enough to make the line weight catagorization ambiguous. Bill Howe Boulder, CO

I assume this to be for a floating line. Did you come across ratings for weighted lines? (ie. sink tip, full weighted, etc.) B.

Response:

AFTMA Weight #   Grains/1st 30 feet 4           120 5           140 6           160 7           185 8           210 9           240 10          280 Boulder, CO I assume this to be for a floating line. Did you come across ratings for

weighted lines? (ie. sink tip, full weighted, etc.) B.

No, it’s for ALL lines, floating, sink-tip, or sinking. To make a line sink, the weight is unchanged ( since changing it would change the casting characteristics…), but the _DENSITY_ is increased. In other words, a sinking section of line will be smaller in diameter than a floating line of a given weight, but will weigh the same. By further decreasing the cross-section of the line, you can make it sink even faster. (Now do we all understand why we pay so much for these things? <<grin ) — Delete "NOSPAM" in address above before replying!(fraggin’ morons…) Joe Ellis     o/~ The Synthetic Filker o/~ |  TesserAct Studios ()XDarwin(;        Now on the Web at      | Cincinnati, OH 45240 / /~LL~~LL~  http://shell.idt.net/~ellis69 |New Dimensions In Filk! Unsolicited commercial E-mail will be proofread at $25 hr/2 hr min.

Response:

Question:

In the Washington DC area: Brookside Gardens (Wheaton MD) is a nice smallish place, great in azalea season and interesting at other times too. Nice Japanese pavilion. And of course there is the National Arboretum in the District…. The bonsai collection is awesome, and the experience of walking under flowering azalea "trees" (mostly the original GlennDales, i believe) is indescribable (but get there EARLY). — NOTE: to reply you must remove the X at the end of the email address given above/below. Sorry about the inconvenience, but i am totally fed up with the tons of junk mail coming over the Net! Judy Karpen                        "The line between scientific genius and Naval Research Lab               line from The Brain that Wouldnt Die Washington DC                         garden: Zone 7 (Maryland) Do not send ANY commercial solicitations to this address!

Response:

David Fairchild Garden in Miami, Florida, while still recovering from Hurricane Andrew in 1992 is special and worth visiting.  The collection of tropical plants is wonderful.  In fact, after the hurricane, Fairchild Garden recieved letters from other botanical gardens all over the world with offers of seeds, plants, advice, and help to rebuild.

Response:

David Fairchild Garden in Miami, Florida, while still recovering from Hurricane Andrew in 1992 is special and worth visiting.  The collection of tropical plants is wonderful.  In fact, after the hurricane, Fairchild Garden recieved letters from other botanical gardens all over the world with offers of seeds, plants, advice, and help to rebuild.

Hi Julia I know it’s one of *my* favorite places as I can see things growing outside that I can find no other place in the Lower 48. Love it!! I haven’t been there since the hurricane. How’s it shaping up? What about the drive down Old Cutler Road? It used to be so pretty. hurricanes {:O( Paul and Roxanne Mitchell       USDA Zone 9b

Response:

|   |   My question is what are the other top gardens in the U.S.? | | Well, I’m going to answer my own question.  I sent an email to | Bellingrath Gardens asking what the top gardens are.  They replied: | |   Bouchard |   Longview |   Callaway |   Biltmore |   Bellingrath I have seen the Biltmore Garden in Asheville, NC and it is very nice. I will also put in a plug for a couple of local (for me, that is) public gardens that I enjoy. Sarah P. Duke Memorial Gardens, Duke University Campus, Durham, NC Features a terrace garden with a huge Wisteria covered pergola and a good size lily pond, an asiatic arboretum, and the Bloomquist garden of native plants, which features showy plants native to the southeastern United States. North Carolina State University Arboretum – Raleigh, NC Features an incredible diversity of woody plants, a 300 foot long perennial border, a white garden, and various demonstration gardens. Jay

Response:

The National Arboretum in Washington, DC (part of the Smithsonian Institutes, if I’m not mistaken)!!!!!!

Response:

Fort Worth has a remarkable botanical garden with a Japanese water garden section.  Wonderful!  Visit if you can!   — Signed,    Kellie My Karma Ran Over My Dogma.  It was a catastrophe! Now my dogma’s dead and my karma’s out of alignment. Get in "Knee Deep"!     The Internet Pond Society      http://w3.one.net/~rzutt/newsletter.html

Response:

The Missouri Botanical Garden is wonderful. More, they do internationally important research on plant species. The Missouri Botanical Garden has helped fund rainforest research, among other things. No, I don’t work there, but have very much enjoyed visiting. Their web site is: http://www.mobot.org/ I was just there last weekend, and it was stunning even in early spring. Don’t even get me started on the gift shop and it’s book selection….. — Robin, Jasper and Dreamer (my opinions are strictly my own!) Doberman page: http://www.hsc.missouri.edu/people/robin/

Response:

I live in Montreal Canada and our Botanical Gardens are  quite impressive.  I have been informed that Montreal’s Botanical Gardens are the second largest in the world.  They include sections for: a) Perennials b) annuals c) Herbs d) Medicinal Plants e) Plants for commercial use (making dyes, rope, etc) f) poisonous plants g) alpine plants h) vegetables i) grains j) Many bushes k) a large arboretum with many types of trees l) a Chinese garden m) a Japanese garden n) an insectarium o) a butterfly pavilion (live butterflies in natural surroundings) p) a large greenhouse with collections of tropical plants, cacti and succulents from around the world) q) a bookstore with many titles in English and French If you are in Montreal a trip to the Botanical Gardens is a wothwhile experience. Bill (zone 4) Montreal

Response:

I just returned from visiting Bellingrath Gardens which is south of Mobile, Alabama.  What a fabulous place and to think I found it almost by accident.  I definitely recommend visiting it!  In its brochure it lists itself as among the top 5 public gardens in the U.S.   My question is what are the other top gardens in the U.S.?  I want to see them all! Cindy in Indy zone 5

My favorite are right near me so I can visit often. It’s a school that lets folks just walk around. It has acres and acres of amazing things. Like . . . a walled garden with pretty flowers that you spot across the lawn. As you walk closer you can see down to another layer of flowers, closer, another. The darn thing is terriced down, and down, each layer beautifuly designed and reviels itself as you walk closer. The bottom is a tiny pond. Way cool, but forget I said this when you go there so you can be surprised! They have a nice web site you can find by the schools’ name. Niagara Parks Botanic School of Horticulture.It’s just north of Niagra Falls Onterio Canada. It also has a huge butterfly conservitory that just opened. Haven’t been there yet. If you travel for the garden, you get to see the falls too! Peggy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Huntington Botanical Gardens, San Marino, CA; Missouri Botanical Garden.

Response:

    My question is what are the other top gardens in the U.S.? Well, I’m going to answer my own question.  I sent an email to Bellingrath Gardens asking what the top gardens are.  They replied:   Bouchard   Longview   Callaway   Biltmore   Bellingrath Cindy in Indy zone 5

Response:

  My question is what are the other top gardens in the U.S.? Well, I’m going to answer my own question.  I sent an email to Bellingrath Gardens asking what the top gardens are.  They replied:   Bouchard   Longview   Callaway   Biltmore   Bellingrath

   A lot depends on what one defines as a "garden", or more importantly what type of garden you want to see.  There are gardens that have nice grounds, trees, and shrubbery (sometimes flowering in the spring), there are gardens with thousands of "set out" greenhouse plants, then there are gardens with perennial borders filled with thousands of different varieties selected and planned to grow in place.  I’m strongly biased in favor of the last on this list.   If "Bouchard" is Butchart Gardens on Vancouver Island then, because it relies heavily on set out plants, on "my" list it doesn’t even rank at the top of Vancouver gardens.  See http://www.phy.duke.edu/~fortney/tours/vancouver/vancouver.html for views of several gardens in that area and make your own judgement.  Of course, growing conditions in the NW give them an unfair advantage which they pay for with ten to eleven months of gray skies. — Lloyd Fortney http://www.phy.duke.edu/~fortney/ has links to my garden, flower, flyfishing, and travel JPEG images as well as teaching, research, and stuff like that

Response:

I just returned from visiting Bellingrath Gardens which is south of Mobile, Alabama.  What a fabulous place My question is what are the other top gardens in the U.S.?  I want to see them all!

The Huntington in LA is sure worth a visit.  I especially enjoyed the cactus & succulent section. Scott http://users.uniserve.com/~lparker/    (SF stories & puzzles)

Response:

I don’t know if it’s rated one of the top gardens, but last year I went to the gardens outside of Chicago (the name escapes me right now). They were absolutely beautiful. I’m hoping to go back again this year soon so I can see the bulb garden in bloom! I think this one is a definite must see:) Michelle the earth was not given to us by our parents, it was lent to us by our children.                 -kenyan proverb – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just returned from visiting Bellingrath Gardens which is south of Mobile, Alabama.  What a fabulous place and to think I found it almost by accident.  I definitely recommend visiting it!  In its brochure it lists itself as among the top 5 public gardens in the U.S.   My question is what are the other top gardens in the U.S.?  I want to see them all! Cindy in Indy zone 5

Response:

I just returned from visiting Bellingrath Gardens which is south of Mobile, Alabama.  What a fabulous place and to think I found it almost by accident.  I definitely recommend visiting it!  In its brochure it lists itself as among the top 5 public gardens in the U.S.   My question is what are the other top gardens in the U.S.?  I want to see them all! Cindy in Indy zone 5

Response:

My question is what are the other top gardens in the U.S.?  I want to see them all!

    The Chicago Botanical garden is big, varied, and has lots of perennials.  I certainly havn’t seen them all, and I’m strongly biased toward places with perennial borders, but this is by far the best I’ve run across in the US. — Lloyd Fortney http://www.phy.duke.edu/~fortney/ has links to my garden, flower, flyfishing, and travel JPEG images as well as teaching, research, and stuff like that

Response:

I just returned from visiting Bellingrath Gardens which is south of Mobile, Alabama.  What a fabulous place and to think I found it almost by accident.  I definitely recommend visiting it!  In its brochure it lists itself as among the top 5 public gardens in the U.S.   My question is what are the other top gardens in the U.S.?  I want to see them all! Cindy in Indy zone 5

I suggest Longwood Gardens outside of Philadelphia. Fabulous place!

Response:

Question:

The reason is pretty simple, I guess. The popularity of FF is right in the beginning and hasn’t reached it’s peak so far. Sometimes you cannot wait until everything is destroyed and devastated, you should do something before that happens. I think that thinking about how to manage a crowd flooding our rivers (and I don’t mean trout) is a legal and necessary.                              Thomas    I hate crowded streams as much or more than anyone, but I have never seen conditions that would actually "destry or devastate" a stream.  Before anyone goes crazy regulating access, etc they had better remember that government is notoriously hard to undo.  Any regulations will, for all practical purposes, be permanent.   Rob Gregoire

It is not enough to examine legislation in the light of the benefits it will convey if properly administered. It must also be minutely scrutinized in the light of the wrongs it would do and the harms it would cause if improperly administered… dWEST — Who is wise? He who learns from everyone.

Response:

I heard about GA stocking.  How do the locals dig out the trout after they free-fall and auger into the mud?  Though some hardware anglers in VA spread the word about the arrival of a stocking truck, I don’t believe they ever used the term "in-coming" for such an event.  I do know of a guy named Jeff in Carroll County, VA, who would be ready for aerial stocking with a landing/rescue net from the local FD. VA Angler

Response:

Why not just stop worrying about it and wait untill this bolus of popularity passes through the system. — "A Bad Day Fishing Is Better Than A Good Day At Work" Web Page:  http://www.tiac.net/users/macaw

The reason is pretty simple, I guess. The popularity of FF is right in the beginning and hasn’t reached it’s peak so far. Sometimes you cannot wait until everything is destroyed and devastated, you should do something before that happens. I think that thinking about how to manage a crowd flooding our rivers (and I don’t mean trout) is a legal and necessary.                               Thomas

Response:

Why not just stop worrying about it and wait untill this bolus of popularity passes through the system. — The reason is pretty simple, I guess. The popularity of FF is right in the beginning and hasn’t reached it’s peak so far. Sometimes you cannot wait until everything is destroyed and devastated, you should do something before that happens. I think that thinking about how to manage a crowd flooding our rivers (and I don’t mean trout) is a legal and necessary.                              Thomas

    I hate crowded streams as much or more than anyone, but I have never seen conditions that would actually "destry or devastate" a stream.  Before anyone goes crazy regulating access, etc they had better remember that government is notoriously hard to undo.  Any regulations will, for all practical purposes, be permanent.    Rob Gregoire

Response:

"Most of these people are too lazy to walk upstream to where the real fishing is.  Maybe that is why  they stock close to roads." Or maybe it is because hachery trucks don’t fly.                         Mike in PDX                "When the trout are lost, smash the state."                                            Tom McGuane

Response:

Or maybe it is because hachery trucks don’t fly.

Yes they do!  The State uses helicopters to stock sections of at least one river here in GA. Johnny

Response:

Or maybe it is because hachery trucks don’t fly. Yes they do!  The State uses helicopters to stock sections of at least one river here in GA. Johnny

  A large number of High lakes in the Sierra  are stocked by air as well. When you see it ,it scares the hell out of you, large USFS like tankers unload on the lake. Cutbacks are in line for that program from what I understand   Harry

Response:

A good river can handle a lot of good fisherpersons.  A few inconsiderate fisherpersons will mess up any river.  Remember also that the more people who buy licenses, the more money the stocking programs will have, although I usually avoid heavily planted areas.  Catch and release and tread lightly, support your local river protection groups. See ya on the river, Mike

Response:

"Remember also that the more people who buy licenses, the more money the stocking programs will have" Excellent point.  Best reason to not buy a license that I’ve hear recently.                         Mike in PDX                "When the trout are lost, smash the state."                                            Tom McGuane

Response:

Or maybe it is because hachery trucks don’t fly. Yes they do!  The State uses helicopters to stock sections of at least one river here in GA. Johnny

There is a significant difference between a helicopter and a truck. Therefore, I think Brother Leitheiser is pretty close to correct in his conclusion. <BSEG CZW — Virtuous and vicious everyone must be, Few in the extreme, but all in the degree.

Response:

That flyfishing may be ruined by too many people doing it is as likely as sunrises being ruined by too many people watching them.

This comparison would certainly be valid if flyfishing didn’t involve fish… Tim —

Response:

Seems like the only place around here that there is any pressure is within short walking distance to any road.  Most of these people are too lazy to walk upstream to where the real fishing is.  Maybe that is why they stock close to roads.  Keeps the animals away from the quality and peaceful fishing areas. –

Response:

That flyfishing may be ruined by too many people doing it is as likely as sunrises being ruined by too many people watching them. As long as some places get crowded, some people will make the extra effort to seek out their own special place. Eventually they will learn to be selective about with whom they share that treasure. If everyone were flyfishing they wouldn’t have time to screw up the environment or the economy, commit crimes against persons or do any number of things that make a brief and too infrequent escape from the present everyday world so appealing. Just a thought… — Ken Clark Ft. Lupton, CO

Response:

A common thread in this group is that fly-fishing has been ruined.  I agree that the sport has been over-commercialized and some of the old waters are over-crowded.  HOWEVER, I have managed to find some magnificent streams in the states where I have lived (ID, MT, MN).  Sure, the Henry’s Fork is packed and the FF experience there has been seriously degraded, but half of the fun is EXPLORATION of unknown watersheds. A second thread I would like to address is the idea that Fly-Fishing goes through 5 steps.  Recreation/Leisure research has shown that, for any sport, the more one pursues that sport, the more they transcend from the simple physical aspects of the sport to focus on the spiritual/intellectual aspects.  Similarly, a geographic perspective has shown that as Fly-Fishers become more experienced in their sport, access requirements become less strict.  Car access gives way to short foot trail access to long trails to trailless access.  I hypothesis that there is a direct correlation between difficulty of access and the level of experience. Good gosh, I sound like a bean-headed academic!  Guess I am – but I’m also a FF who finds his old Eagle Claw pack rod completely sufficient, enjoys a cold beer instead of the requisite scotch and attempts to minimize the load of hardware when going into the field. Oh yeah, one more thing – Remember hang-gliding and those other "faddish" sports?  I know people that were really into golf in the late 80s & early 90s – now they’re into FF.  Fads change & typically take the fad-seeking population with them. Just some thoughts to help pass an extremely cold day in the frozen wastelands of northern Minnesota. Jonathan Vlaming Duluth, MN temp this morning: -43 w/out windchill factor

Response: