Question:

Peter Charles: (snip) It is this kind of anecdotal experience that causes me to question some of the absolutism found in some scientific studies.

More anecdotal stuff:  Go fishing in Labrador and you are bound to catch a big brookie with portions of it missing, having been the intended meal of some hungry pike or laketrout.  I’ve caught several big brookies that had their dorsal fins missing, along with a nice chunk of their back, and others with scars on their head and belly.  But they all survived. Dave

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More anecdotal stuff:  Go fishing in Labrador and you are bound to catch a big brookie with portions of it missing, having been the intended meal of some hungry pike or laketrout.  I’ve caught several big brookies that had their dorsal fins missing, along with a nice chunk of their back, and others with scars on their head and belly.  But they all survived.

Good point.  Another example is Great Lakes trout or salmon that have the scars from lamprey attachments.  Those cuts were obviously bleeding enough to feed an eel, yet they also survived.  I’ve always doubted the idea that a bleeding fish will necessarily die (this just does not make much sense in terms of their survival.)  But I don’t have anything other than anecdotal evidence either.

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My father brought home a 23 pound Pike from Minnesota years ago that had a huge scar on both sides of it’s body that was the result of a considerably larger Pike getting a death grip on her.  The wound was mostly healed, and the fish put up a great fight, so it clearly wasn’t weakened.   Some have said that the bleeding won’t stop.  That is simply wrong.   Some have said that if the gills are cut, then the bleeding won’t stop.  That may be true in some circumstances, but certainly not in all circumstances. Is it possible that these stories about certain death are created by "bleeding heart" folks who need justification for bringing a fish home to the table? My experience matches Peter’s with juveniles being more delicate, and with larger fish surviving tremendous injuries. Last year at Great Slave Lake my son Andy caught a blind pike.  The fishes eyes were entirely gone, but it managed to find his fly and put up a presentable fight.  It was only 6 or 7 pounds, and uninjured by the fly so we released it.  We couldn’t guess how it lost it’s sight. Frank Ammoto(sp?) wrote an article about steelhead fishing in BC long ago where he caught a steelhead that didn’t put up the usual fight.   When he landed it he discovered that literally half of it’s head had been bitten off by a seal.  This fish was 100 miles upstream from the nearest seal. Chas – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – More anecdotal stuff:  Go fishing in Labrador and you are bound to catch a big brookie with portions of it missing, having been the intended meal of some hungry pike or laketrout.  I’ve caught several big brookies that had their dorsal fins missing, along with a nice chunk of their back, and others with scars on their head and belly.  But they all survived. Good point.  Another example is Great Lakes trout or salmon that have the scars from lamprey attachments.  Those cuts were obviously bleeding enough to feed an eel, yet they also survived.  I’ve always doubted the idea that a bleeding fish will necessarily die (this just does not make much sense in terms of their survival.)  But I don’t have anything other than anecdotal evidence either.

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Is it possible that these stories about certain death are created by "bleeding heart" folks who need justification for bringing a fish home to the table?

I watched a fish bleed to death in Yellowstone this summer.  I was kind of mad that I couldn’t keep it because it was a cutthroat, but wrote it off as bug food and essential nutrients going back into the river.  It did die though.  There was no mistaking it.  No big deal really.  I am sure some other critter was able to enjoy a nice fish. Unlike "some" people, I am not tormented by this. I wonder if water temps, time of year, etc make much of a difference. Perhaps in colder waters, their metabolism is moving slower and the bleeding eventually stops compared to warm water, faster metabolism, etc. I do know that fish don’t have much of an circulatory system compared to other animals and so deep wounds may not even bleed at all.  Think about it.  When you clean a fish, how much blood do you get and where are you getting it?  I don’t draw blood when I lop off the fins of some perch and don’t strike blood until I lop off their heads or when I open them up to gut.  Just a few thoughts and not scientific answers. . . . — Warren Findley www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt

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When you cut the gills of salmon to bleed them, do you use a box cutter?

That’s supposed to be a joke?? You remain one sick fuckin’ puppy.

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Along this line, it is now advocated by some that C&R bass fishermen brink along a hypodermic needle to "fizz" the air bladder of bass caught in deeper whater. Bass can not readily adjust their swim bladders so when they are released, they float on top. This has resulted in extreme mortality in some tournaments. There is a very specific location for the placement of the needle through the skin, so you need to familiarize yourself with the anatomy thoroughly before doing it.

Tim, This came up recently either on ROFF or ROFS. If ROFF sorry for the repeat of the site. http://www.leadertec.com/Catch_release.html Kiyu

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Frankly, I don’t know the scientific name for fish slime but I would like to know it.  You don’t suppose there is someone here that can find the term here in ROFF Scott?

Well, as an erstwhile medical practitioner, I usually call it icky goo. When you cut the gills of salmon to bleed them, do you use a box cutter?

Has it ever occurred to you to wonder why so many people would rather consort with fish slime than with you? Still not Pete

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Sure, they do die, I’ve seen that often too. I bet the water temperature has a lot to do with it.  Dry Falls Lake is a selective fishery in Eastern Washington that has a nice collection of 14 to 24 inch rainbows and a few nice browns.  One year it was warmer than usual around opening day, and I could see twenty or thirty dead fish on the second day of the season while the morning of the first day there were none.  I was sure these were fish that had been injured when they were hooked and released.  Other years there were no dead fish on the second or third day.  I’m sure it wasn’t any difference in the anglers or the education or the fish.  It had to be environmental. Today I was fishing for Silvers on the Cascade river and snagged a hard fighting 7 pounder.  All the skin and flesh was gone from the top of his head, right down to the bone.  That’s an area of about four square inches.  He put up quite a fight, and I released him unharmed.  The wound was red around the edges, and the rest was clean white bone.  The only likely perpetrator was a seal, and that had to have happened thirty miles down stream at the mouth of the Skagit.   All this is cold clean water, I’m sure that helped. As for that horible feeling that the fish has died, I don’t get that either.  It is wonderful to see all these dead pink salmon providing the nutrients our rivers have been starving for over the last several years. Chas Still thinking about carpooling to the Pike clave… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I watched a fish bleed to death in Yellowstone this summer.  I was kind of mad that I couldn’t keep it because it was a cutthroat, but wrote it off as bug food and essential nutrients going back into the river.  It did die though.   … snip . . — Warren Findley www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt

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I’m not sure I understand humane in this context, so I’ll just leave that part alone.  My understanding is that the fish taste better if you keep them on a stringer for a while so they can work out the built up lactic acid, and then bleed them as completely as possible. Why do I care about the slime on a fish I’m keeping?  (That’s an honest question, not a sarcastic comment)  I’ve noticed that fish I’ve gutted in the field and packed on ice seem to build up a heave slime layer by the time I get them home.  I wonder if the "slime glands" are like our hair folicles and keep functioning after the body has died. Chas – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve also cut the gills of salmon intentionally to bleed them when I was keeping them.  With the fish on a stringer in the shallows I did this half an hour before leaving.  There was a lot of blood in the water initially, but it stopped.  Some of the fish were still holding themselves upright and finning, and needed to be cut again to finish the bleeding. IMHO, when you are going to keep a fish, humanely kill it and be done with it.  There may be some blood later, but my understanding is that this is the best way to preserve the slime layer. Scott

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I’m not sure I understand humane in this context, so I’ll just leave that part alone.  My understanding is that the fish taste better if you keep them on a stringer for a while so they can work out the built up lactic acid, and then bleed them as completely as possible.

just bleed them… it’s all one needs to do.  and you can thwack them on the head and then bleed them (and they’ll bleed fully dead) chris

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I do know that fish don’t have much of an circulatory system compared to other animals and so deep wounds may not even bleed at all.  Think about it.  When you clean a fish, how much blood do you get and where are you getting it?

Not much.  Maybe that’s the answer.  Fish just don’t have that much blood. Other than a major artery or the gills, they just don’t bleed much.  When you do cut the gills, they can lose such a high percentage of their blood so quickly (relatively speaking) that it’s sometimes fatal.  Maybe it’s not a blood clot issue at all.

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More anecdotal stuff: Some people survive shotgun blasts, and others are killed instantly by mishandled .22s loaded with .22 shorts. Sometimes game animals are killed with one (particular) shot, other times, they aren’t.  Of course some fish survive mauling, etc., while others die from seemingly minor wounds.  Why is anyone surprised, or doubt it happens?

Because people have written here in the past, in absolutely certain terms, that fish’s blood won’t clot, and once it starts bleeding, it won’t stop, and the fish will die, period.

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Because people have written here in the past, in absolutely certain terms, that fish’s blood won’t clot, and once it starts bleeding, it won’t stop, and the fish will die, period.

Water, itself makes clotting difficult due to dilution.  The hot-match-heat procedure catercizes the wound and clotting isn’t necessary, don’t you see? George Gehrke

  george.vcf

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The hot-match-heat procedure catercizes the wound and clotting isn’t

necessary, don’t you see? I see the beauty of releasing bleeders in to an 11 inch cold handle cauterizer… — TBone

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Because people have written here in the past, in absolutely certain terms, that fish’s blood won’t clot, and once it starts bleeding, it won’t stop, and the fish will die, period. Water, itself makes clotting difficult due to dilution.  The hot-match-heat procedure catercizes the wound and clotting isn’t necessary, don’t you

see? Catercizes.  Yes, I think I see now.

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I suspect you’re right.  I think the main reason I keep them on a stringer is that I like to get them on ice as soon after they die as possible.  If I’m going to keep fishing, I’d rather keep the fish fresh by keeping it alive.  I know that’s not what I said before, but in that context I thought the delay might have some value. Thanks Chas – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – just bleed them… it’s all one needs to do.  and you can thwack them on the head and then bleed them (and they’ll bleed fully dead) chris

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The best way to preserve ‘the slime layer’ is to never touch a fish with dry hands nor do you let it flop on dry ground. Frankly, I don’t know the scientific name for fish slime but I would like to know it.  You don’t suppose there is someone here that can find the term here in ROFF Scott? When you cut the gills of salmon to bleed them, do you use a box cutter? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve also cut the gills of salmon intentionally to bleed them when I was keeping them.  With the fish on a stringer in the shallows I did this half an hour before leaving.  There was a lot of blood in the water initially, but it stopped.  Some of the fish were still holding themselves upright and finning, and needed to be cut again to finish the bleeding. IMHO, when you are going to keep a fish, humanely kill it and be done with it.  There may be some blood later, but my understanding is that this is the best way to preserve the slime layer. Scott

  george.vcf

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In the world of CATCH & RELEASE, some get a bleeder which often is no more then a small hook hole or pin prick into a gill.  There is a way to stop the bleeding. Arm yourselves with a film can of kitchen matches.  Glue onto the sides a sheet of very fine grained sandpaper.  Use the hot match head, with flame still going but put it out by applying the charcoal heated (sulfur based) head against the wound.  Catercizing a little wound like this often stops the bleeding immediately and the fish may be released in good health.

Along this line, it is now advocated by some that C&R bass fishermen brink along a hypodermic needle to "fizz" the air bladder of bass caught in deeper whater. Bass can not readily adjust their swim bladders so when they are released, they float on top. This has resulted in extreme mortality in some tournaments. There is a very specific location for the placement of the needle through the skin, so you need to familiarize yourself with the anatomy thoroughly before doing it. — TBone

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Good point.  Another example is Great Lakes trout or salmon that have the scars from lamprey attachments.  Those cuts were obviously bleeding enough to feed an eel, yet they also survived.  I’ve always doubted the idea that a bleeding fish will necessarily die (this just does not make much sense in terms of their survival.)  But I don’t have anything other than anecdotal evidence eithe

I’ve seen many trout that have had huge scars and chunks of flesh missing that have survived quite well, but *every* trout or salmon that I’ve seen bleeding from the gills has died within minutes, often within seconds. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

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I’ve also cut the gills of salmon intentionally to bleed them when I was keeping them.  With the fish on a stringer in the shallows I did this half an hour before leaving.  There was a lot of blood in the water initially, but it stopped.  Some of the fish were still holding themselves upright and finning, and needed to be cut again to finish the bleeding.

IMHO, when you are going to keep a fish, humanely kill it and be done with it.  There may be some blood later, but my understanding is that this is the best way to preserve the slime layer. Scott

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Peter Charles: (snip) It is this kind of anecdotal experience that causes me to question some of the absolutism found in some scientific studies. More anecdotal stuff:  Go fishing in Labrador and you are bound to catch a big brookie with portions of it missing, having been the intended meal of some hungry pike or laketrout.  I’ve caught several big brookies that had their dorsal fins missing, along with a nice chunk of their back, and others with scars on their head and belly.  But they all survived. Dave

More anecdotal stuff: Some people survive shotgun blasts, and others are killed instantly by mishandled .22s loaded with .22 shorts. Sometimes game animals are killed with one (particular) shot, other times, they aren’t.  Of course some fish survive mauling, etc., while others die from seemingly minor wounds.  Why is anyone surprised, or doubt it happens? TC, R

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In the world of CATCH & RELEASE, some get a bleeder which often is no more then a small hook hole or pin prick into a gill.  There is a way to stop the bleeding. Arm yourselves with a film can of kitchen matches.  Glue onto the sides a sheet of very fine grained sandpaper.  Use the hot match head, with flame still going but put it out by applying the charcoal heated (sulfur based) head against the wound.  Catercizing a little wound like this often stops the bleeding immediately and the fish may be released in good health. Sometimes it doesn’t work, but practice makes perfect This IS a choice which is better then nothing at all. George Gehrke

  george.vcf

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I’m trying to imagine handling the fish’s gills carefully enough to find the wound, then striking the match, blowing it out, and getting it inside the fish to cauterize the wound.  All this needs to be within 30 seconds so the air on the gills doesn’t do the dastardly deed. Interesting idea, but a bit far-fetched. I don’t have any proof in the case of trout, but I’ve seen that bleeding pills in Pike aren’t always lethal.  On a couple 30 fish days up at Great Slave Lake, we had 3 or 4 fish that we released despite the bleeding.   The bay we were fishing had a bare mud bottom only about 3 feet deep, so we could see the fish on the bottom.  They developed a red spot on the bottom from the bleeding.  As we came over those areas later, we noticed the spots, but the fish were gone. I’ve also cut the gills of salmon intentionally to bleed them when I was keeping them.  With the fish on a stringer in the shallows I did this half an hour before leaving.  There was a lot of blood in the water initially, but it stopped.  Some of the fish were still holding themselves upright and finning, and needed to be cut again to finish the bleeding. I’m sure these cuts aren’t good, but I think at least some fish survive them. Chas – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is a multi-part message in MIME format. In the world of CATCH & RELEASE, some get a bleeder which often is no more then a small hook hole or pin prick into a gill.  There is a way to stop the bleeding. Arm yourselves with a film can of kitchen matches.  Glue onto the sides a sheet of very fine grained sandpaper.  Use the hot match head, with flame still going but put it out by applying the charcoal heated (sulfur based) head against the wound.  Catercizing a little wound like this often stops the bleeding immediately and the fish may be released in good health. Sometimes it doesn’t work, but practice makes perfect This IS a choice which is better then nothing at all. George Gehrke [ george.vcf ] (Attachment)

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m trying to imagine handling the fish’s gills carefully enough to find the wound, then striking the match, blowing it out, and getting it inside the fish to cauterize the wound.  All this needs to be within 30 seconds so the air on the gills doesn’t do the dastardly deed. Interesting idea, but a bit far-fetched. I don’t have any proof in the case of trout, but I’ve seen that bleeding pills in Pike aren’t always lethal.  On a couple 30 fish days up at Great Slave Lake, we had 3 or 4 fish that we released despite the bleeding.   The bay we were fishing had a bare mud bottom only about 3 feet deep, so we could see the fish on the bottom.  They developed a red spot on the bottom from the bleeding.  As we came over those areas later, we noticed the spots, but the fish were gone. I’ve also cut the gills of salmon intentionally to bleed them when I was keeping them.  With the fish on a stringer in the shallows I did this half an hour before leaving.  There was a lot of blood in the water initially, but it stopped.  Some of the fish were still holding themselves upright and finning, and needed to be cut again to finish the bleeding. I’m sure these cuts aren’t good, but I think at least some fish survive them. Chas

Chas, I don’t have the range of encounters that you have mentioned but I can talk about a few instances.  We are taught that fish have no platelets and all bleeding inevitably leads to death.  I have hooked deeply small trout on C&R or slot limit streams that I was required by law to release and I have watched these bleeding fish die.  Yet I have also hooked a landlock salmon under the jaw, caused a very nasty, distinctive wound, had it bleed, released it (as required by law) and caught it the very next day on the same fly.   I have also caught smallmouth with fresh, bleeding mouth wounds opposite to the site of the hook puncture, that I had obviously caused having hooked and lost the same fish some time earlier (I was the only fisherman there.) These experiences have suggested to me that fish with major bleeding will die but a minor bleed is not necessarily fatal.  I also agree that pike with minor bleeding wounds will usually survive.  In my experience, most pike that are brought into a boat are returned to the water with at least some bleeding.  They thrash so much that even with experienced handling, it’s hard to keep them from banging into something that will cut them.  If mortality from these casual bleeds was 100%, C&R mortality for pike would be probably in excess of 50%. Nobody talks about pike as being endangered. So obviously, C&R mortality has to be running a lot lower (as suggested by virtually all studies – however flawed.)   Therefore, bleeding is not necessarily fatal – hardly scientific but definitely within the experience of this fisherman.  I have also caught steelhead with a fungus growth covering wounds inflicted during the migration, from nest building, and from fighting.  If steelhead died from the first bleeding wound, there wouldn’t be very many steelhead around. It is this kind of anecdotal experience that causes me to question some of the absolutism found in some scientific studies. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Question:

Joe, so far I only count 6 confirmed heads unless you are not coming alone.  This includes my wife and myself.

I’m bringing one fishin’ buddy and maybe one brother-in-law.   No spouse. I’m planning on hitting the campsite around 0700 Sunday morning.  I would guess we will start splashing the river about 0800 or 0830.  This is just to keep ahead of locals who might drift in.

0700.   That’s like 7:00 in the morning.   Lemesee, I have to pick up my buddy & drive 2.5 hrs., so I can sleep until about – 3 a.m.   No problem. (snicker) I really gotta get down there Saturday night. Joe F.

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news.ops.worldnet.att.net, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wayne, Have you been keeping a head count/list of those currently planning to attend? Also, what say we pick a rendezvous hour for Sun. a.m.   What’s a good time? Joe F. (typing when I need to get busy tying) Joe, so far I only count 6 confirmed heads unless you are not coming alone.  This includes my wife and myself. I’m planning on hitting the campsite around 0700 Sunday morning.  I would guess we will start splashing the river about 0800 or 0830. This is just to keep ahead of locals who might drift in.  We will be in no hurry so we can be flexible with the time for being "On-Water". Expect some canoe launching to be going on in the morning and canoe arrivals after noon..  If you get down Saturday evening bring a headlamp and explore the river. The Miller hatch actually occurs at night.  Wild thing to behold!!  I’ll e-mail the confirmed attendees with specific fishing instructions whic I don’t want broadcast here.  You guys are gonna LOVE this! Maybe we should bring our own blank T-Shirts and do our own drawings!! We can take pictures, get them deeloped at Wal-Mart down the road and have them put on our shirts! — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine!  I’ll be there Sunday for sure, possibly Saturday if work allows.

Hope the river will be fishable with all these storms we’re having. Drove by the Potomac this AM. High and full of mud. Praying for no more rain just for the next 10 days. Bob Before you buy.

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 I’ll be there Sunday for sure, possibly Saturday if work allows. Hope the river will be fishable with all these storms we’re having. Drove by the Potomac this AM. High and full of mud. Praying for no more rain just for the next 10 days. Bob

Glad to have you Bob.  The storms have been running across the Northern Highlands and the Rappahannock is nearly IDEAL right now with no significant rain forecast.  River is clear and excellent wading and canoeing/kayaking levels.  Water temp is in the 70’s and well oxygenated!! Keep in mind also that we are fishing just above the confluence with the Rapidan.  The Rapidan is the bad actor for dumping mud. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

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I’m bringing one fishin’ buddy and maybe one brother-in-law.   No spouse. I really gotta get down there Saturday night. Joe F.

Do we need tar and feathers for the brother-in-law or is he supplying the beer?  The little country store in Richardsville sells tar-&- feather kits for problem in-laws! <G — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

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 I’ll be there Sunday for sure, possibly Saturday if work allows. Hope the river will be fishable with all these storms we’re having. Drove by the Potomac this AM. High and full of mud. Praying for no more rain just for the next 10 days. Bob

For a good example of how Northern Virginia has been getting hammered while we dodge the big bullets check out: http://water.usgs.gov/cgi-bin/daily_flow?va — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

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Do we need tar and feathers for the brother-in-law or is he supplying the beer?  The little country store in Richardsville sells tar-&- feather kits for problem in-laws! <G

LOL.   No, he’s one of the good ones, aside from not being a fly fisherman; but this may be an opportunity to work on that (if I don’t overexpose him to this bunch). Revisiting flies:   Many of the patterns I’m tying at the recommendation of our local shop owner (a good smallie fisherman himself) are somewhat larger (size 4) than the 6’s & 8’s you’ve recommended.   Not likely to be a big deal, I assume? Time permitting, I’ll tie a bunch in the smaller sizes as well. I’m tying all bottom bouncers: a bunch of Crystal Buggers, Crystal Crayfish (easy & pretty cool looking, but no match for the "fighting craw"), white Wooly Buggers, & assorted Clousers.   I thought about helgrammites, but decided to just buy a few instead.   I’m planning to tie enough to swap or give away a few at Clave Central in the morning, so if anybody else wants to do the same, I’d welcome the variety and maybe a couple surface flies for early a.m. Joe F.

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LOL.   No, he’s one of the good ones, aside from not being a fly fisherman; but this may be an opportunity to work on that (if I don’t overexpose him to this bunch). Revisiting flies:   Many of the patterns I’m tying at the

recommendation of our – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – local shop owner (a good smallie fisherman himself) are somewhat larger (size 4) than the 6’s & 8’s you’ve recommended.   Not likely to be a big deal, I assume? Time permitting, I’ll tie a bunch in the smaller sizes as well. I’m tying all bottom bouncers: a bunch of Crystal Buggers, Crystal Crayfish (easy & pretty cool looking, but no match for the "fighting craw"), white Wooly Buggers, & assorted Clousers.   I thought about helgrammites, but decided to just buy a few instead.   I’m planning to tie enough to swap or give away a few at Clave Central in the morning, so if anybody else wants to do the same, I’d welcome the variety and maybe a couple surface flies for early a.m. Joe F.

Joe, for total number of fish the #6 works well.  For fewer fish but the LUNKERS, go with the larger flys.  Make some in black and weighted.  The current BIG FISH flys are large and black fished slow on the bottom.  Leech patterns, hellgrammites, and Clousers in sizes 2 to 4  are getting the larger fish.  Keep in mind, this river does not fish crawfish quite as well as more northern rivers. They are certainly players here but not as important. BTW, I’m slipping out after work today to a SUPER SECRET spot to catch some 8 to 40 lb. Carp on a #12 Cracked Corn fly.  Right here on Lake Anna.  Film at 11. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

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I’ll be there Friday evening.  Frank Sr. did mention he may be bringing some one else.                         Frank Reid Before you buy.

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Nope, twern’t me Frank Jr.  I be coming alone (as usual) unless you count my portable gas grill as company.  And I will be there sometime Friday. Frank (he who travels alone travels fastest) Church

|I’ll be there Friday evening.  Frank Sr. did mention he may be bringing |some one else. |                        Frank Reid | | |Before you buy.

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Sorry Frank    I must have been talking about the other Frank, no, he’s in the SW. It might have been the other Frank, no, he’s driving down by himself too.  No, wait, thats me.  Where am I?  Who am I?         I’m schizophrenic and so am I.            Frank Reid Before you buy.

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Working in that cubicle does a number on your mind, eh Frank?  :-)) Frank Church of all the things I’ve lost in my life, I regret losing my mind the most

|Sorry Frank |   I must have been talking about the other Frank, no, he’s in the SW. |It might have been the other Frank, no, he’s driving down by himself |too.  No, wait, thats me.  Where am I?  Who am I? |        I’m schizophrenic and so am I. |           Frank Reid | | | |Before you buy.

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I gotta go FISHING!  Just did my 3rd 12 hour day this week, not including my little 1 1/2 each-way commute on the wonderful DC beltway.  Aaarrrrggghhh!!!!  This country boy needs no-see- ums, ’skeeters, ‘coons in the cooler, a couple of cold beers, and some good fishin’ buddies.  We ain’t in Omaha anymore Toto.  Its time to head to Virginia.  Will see you all there.        Frank "get me ‘da hell outta this city" Reid Before you buy.

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My reservations are confirmed at the campgrounds… I’m bringing two kayaks, suitable for fishing, with wave skirts – and class three rapids are the max but a lot of fun. Will two be enough?….any takers out there?…. Wayne, I could probably get some t-shirts and hats from one of the local…er….gentlemen’s clubs….we could magic marker ROFF above

the, John, check out these two links.  Both have maps of the river.  The lower one shows the rapids.  There is an excellent stretch from Kelly’s Ford down to the campground and you can get the campground to transport you. http://www.crrl.org/community/for/pages/brochure1.htm http://members.aol.com/clorebros/index.html After running this river, we may have trouble booting you out of Virginia!! — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

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Wayne, Have you been keeping a head count/list of those currently planning to attend? Also, what say we pick a rendezvous hour for Sun. a.m.   What’s a good time? Joe F. (typing when I need to get busy tying)

Joe, so far I only count 6 confirmed heads unless you are not coming alone.  This includes my wife and myself. I’m planning on hitting the campsite around 0700 Sunday morning.  I would guess we will start splashing the river about 0800 or 0830.  This is just to keep ahead of locals who might drift in.  We will be in no hurry so we can be flexible with the time for being "On-Water".  Expect some canoe launching to be going on in the morning and canoe arrivals after noon..  If you get down Saturday evening bring a headlamp and explore the river. The Miller hatch actually occurs at night.  Wild thing to behold!!  I’ll e-mail the confirmed attendees with specific fishing instructions whic I don’t want broadcast here.  You guys are gonna LOVE this! Maybe we should bring our own blank T-Shirts and do our own drawings!! We can take pictures, get them deeloped at Wal-Mart down the road and have them put on our shirts! — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

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TIME IS GROWING SHORT!! If you love smallie fishing or would like to try it out on one of the premier small mouth rivers in the US, this Fly Fishing Conclave may be just the place to be.  There won’t be any hats, no T-shirts, and no drawings which are some of the fun earmarks of other ROFF Claves. There will be just a fine group of fly fishermen gathering in a quiet, relaxing setting on a beautiful river.  In fact, this will be one great place to get away and just RELAX!!  No events, no plans, just great fishing.  Bring a hammock and "hang out" in the shade of the trees riverside! The campground is primative (no hookups or dump station) and no radios permitted, wear your earphones if you just gotta have noise.  Drive Rt. 3 west from I-95, turn right on Rt. 610, turn right on Rt. 619, look for the red on white hand painted signs for Rappahannock River Campground. Prepare to wade wet, bring a wading staff, say "Hi" to Katy when you check in.  Day parking/fishing is $3.00 for the car and $1.00 a head or something to that effect.  Camping is cheap.  Clave Central is a picnic table next to the canoe launching ramp down by the river.  Some campers arriving as early as Friday Aug. 18, main event kicks off Sunday Morning August 20. Just got a call from home and Frank’s flys got here.  COME ON DOWN and we’ll try those suckers out!! — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

Response:

There won’t be any hats, no T-shirts, and no drawings which are some of the fun earmarks of other ROFF Claves. There will be just a fine group of fly fishermen gathering in a quiet, relaxing setting on a beautiful river.

Wayne, Have you been keeping a head count/list of those currently planning to attend? Also, what say we pick a rendezvous hour for Sun. a.m.   What’s a good time? Joe F. (typing when I need to get busy tying)

Response:

My reservations are confirmed at the campgrounds… Replaced the  fuel filter, front rotors, front calipers, front brakes, greased , changed oil and filter……did I forget anything?… I’m bringing two kayaks, suitable for fishing, with wave skirts – and class three rapids are the max but a lot of fun. Will two be enough?….any takers out there?…. Still have room in my van for a travel buddy, I leave out of Dayton Wayne, I could probably get some t-shirts and hats from one of the local…er….gentlemen’s clubs….we could magic marker ROFF above the, (they have special shirts for the ladies…teehee) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – TIME IS GROWING SHORT!! If you love smallie fishing or would like to try it out on one of the premier small mouth rivers in the US, this Fly Fishing Conclave may be just the place to be.  There won’t be any hats, no T-shirts, and no drawings which are some of the fun earmarks of other ROFF Claves. There will be just a fine group of fly fishermen gathering in a quiet, relaxing setting on a beautiful river.  In fact, this will be one great place to get away and just RELAX!!  No events, no plans, just great fishing.  Bring a hammock and "hang out" in the shade of the trees riverside! The campground is primative (no hookups or dump station) and no radios permitted, wear your earphones if you just gotta have noise.  Drive Rt. 3 west from I-95, turn right on Rt. 610, turn right on Rt. 619, look for the red on white hand painted signs for Rappahannock River Campground. Prepare to wade wet, bring a wading staff, say "Hi" to Katy when you check in.  Day parking/fishing is $3.00 for the car and $1.00 a head or something to that effect.  Camping is cheap.  Clave Central is a picnic table next to the canoe launching ramp down by the river.  Some campers arriving as early as Friday Aug. 18, main event kicks off Sunday Morning August 20. Just got a call from home and Frank’s flys got here.  COME ON DOWN and we’ll try those suckers out!! — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

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Question:

_______  The wading life vest is a good idea anymore the older you get. Of course its a good idea no matter how old you are.  The Madison has slick rounded stones in it and falling is easy enough and no matter how deep the water of any river you’re in, its more difficult to get back up on your feet. The most dangerous thing anyone can do when they fall and start floating down stream is holding onto their fly rod and then exhausting themselves with energy they could have spent more wisely getting back to shore. Let the fly rod go! — Mr.G http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html

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I agree 1000%  I just bought a Stearns vest with the flotation built in.  It doesn’t have some of the bells and whistles, e.g., Supplex, net loop, but I value the safety feature above everything else. Jim Benenson Los Alamos NM’ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – _______  The wading life vest is a good idea anymore the older you get. Of course its a good idea no matter how old you are.  The Madison has slick rounded stones in it and falling is easy enough and no matter how deep the water of any river you’re in, its more difficult to get back up on your feet. The most dangerous thing anyone can do when they fall and start floating down stream is holding onto their fly rod and then exhausting themselves with energy they could have spent more wisely getting back to shore. Let the fly rod go! — Mr.G http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html

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The most dangerous thing anyone can do when they fall and start floating down stream is holding onto their fly rod and then exhausting themselves with energy they could have spent more wisely getting back to shore.

The next most dangerous thing you can do when fishing is to let safety equipment substitute for common sense. A fly vest with flotation built in is a good idea; wearing one so you can wade deep, swift water that you normally wouldn’t wade is a very bad idea. (I know you weren’t suggesting that, George. Just thought it needed mentioning.) — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyo Before you buy.

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Question:

Introduce yourself and tell us the town you live in/near. Might be someone could arrange a lesson, but also would help with giving you advise and contacts. Dave

I’d second Dave’s advice.  The first time you go out, it’s best to go out with someone who knows what they’re doing.  If you can find a club, you may be able to find someone who’ll take you out. Worst case, if you can afford it, you may want to consider hiring a guide for a day.  He can generally lend (or rent) you the equipment you’ll need, and you’ll at least get an idea of what the sport is about.  You might even catch a fish or two.  The cost of guides varies by region, anywhere from about $150 to $300/day.  If he does a good job, it’s traditional to tip 15-20% (or more, if they’re on the low end of the pay scale).  You can find a guide through your local shop, via ads in fly fishing magazines, or over the Internet. Once you’ve been out once, you can make an informed judgement about whether this is something you want to do.  You could then consider a fly fishing school….Again, you’d have some guidance, and would also meet other beginners in the area. As someone else said, there’s no substitute for time on the water and making your own mistakes.  However, I’d argue you’re better off having some sort of foundation from a guide/school to jump-start your learning curve. Michael — www.geocities.com/yosemite/falls/3363 Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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I would suggest visiting your local fly shop.  They will have the staff and expertise to point you in the right direction.  You may also want to consider purchasing or looking at some books at the local bookstore.  What do you plan to fish for? Maurice Paquette

I was thinking about picking up the hobby of fly fishing, but i have no idea where to begin. Nor do i know of anyone who fly fishes. I was wondering if anyone could help me out here, it would be greatly appreciated. — Posted via Talkway – http://www.talkway.com Exchange ideas on practically anything ™.

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JAMFF Introduce yourself and tell us the town you live in/near. Might be someone could arrange a lesson, but also would help with giving you advise and contacts. Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was thinking about picking up the hobby of fly fishing, but i have no idea where to begin. Nor do i know of anyone who fly fishes. I was wondering if anyone could help me out here, it would be greatly appreciated. — Posted via Talkway – http://www.talkway.com Exchange ideas on practically anything ™.

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Books are fine, but just get out there on the water and fuck up time and again. There’s no substitute for experience. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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First of all you will have to tell us what type of fish you are going for and what kind of water you are going to fish. Ernie Harrison See Ernie’s Fly-Fishing Stuff:   http://home.pacbell.net/ernie2 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was thinking about picking up the hobby of fly fishing, but i have no idea where to begin. Nor do i know of anyone who fly fishes. I was wondering if anyone could help me out here, it would be greatly appreciated. — Posted via Talkway – http://www.talkway.com Exchange ideas on practically anything ™.

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I was thinking about picking up the hobby of fly fishing, but i have no idea where to begin. Nor do i know of anyone who fly fishes. I was wondering if anyone could help me out here, it would be greatly appreciated. — Posted via Talkway – http://www.talkway.com Exchange ideas on practically anything ™.

        looks like the start of a beautiful friendship… wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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And if you’re gonna buy a book and know absolutely nothing about FFing, buy: Curtis Creek Manifesto And if you’re gonna watch a video, don’t watch: A River Runs Through It

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I started out..and still basically have taught myself. Through reading books and watching videos. If possible though try to find a local shop or club and join in or just start chattin with people, most will be happy to help. If you put down the area you live in, maybe someone in this group is near enough to give you some instruction. But if all else fails, buy a book. Tim Apple — The fishing is always good, It’s the catching that’s sometimes bad"

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was thinking about picking up the hobby of fly fishing, but i have no idea where to begin. Nor do i know of anyone who fly fishes. I was wondering if anyone could help me out here, it would be greatly appreciated. — Posted via Talkway – http://www.talkway.com Exchange ideas on practically anything ™.

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I was thinking about picking up the hobby of fly fishing, but i have no idea where to begin. Nor do i know of anyone who fly fishes. I was wondering if anyone could help me out here, it would be greatly appreciated. — Posted via Talkway – http://www.talkway.com Exchange ideas on practically anything ™.

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Question:

X-no-archive: yes Animal rights Internet lists are abuzz over the summer movie Instinct, which stars Anthony Hopkins as a primatologist.  Activists claim the film has a strong animal rights message. Don’t give this movie your money.

I saw the movie about ten days ago.  The animal rights message, as explicitly stated, is reasonable enough, i.e. the wanton slaughter of gorillas is a bad thing.  The subliminal messages which may come through have been the topic of a great deal of discussion here in the past month or so, but I don’t think the film has much to add, or that it will make a great impression on the general public.  There is, however, an even better reason to avoid this one; it’s a bad movie.  The cast looked pretty bored throughout and left me feeling much the same.  Maybe I’m just tired of people loping around in bad gorilla costumes.

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What is now left my friends? I ask  you humbly what may we discuss? without wishing to cause tension on the surface, perhaps the meniscus? If treated properly perhaps this odd phenomenon will disappear or sink, for those of you now quite alarmed, dont worry friends , it will float again with gink. The souls of fishes long departed may return at last to haunt us anglers all, the wanton bludgeoning we once practiced in our youth begin with age to pall, what can one do, how may one then, avoid such horrible and all consuming fate? one might perhaps then praise the fish in prayer, before placing it well spiced and heated on ones plate. Oh lord I fear that what I did perhaps was not quite right, and maybe not your wish but lord forgive me please, judge not harshly, remembering I used a  fly to catch this glorious fish. There are some who would have us think that fishing is an evil thing, in actual fact a heinous crime Or did you lord, when we were placed here,  think of us, and give us all these lumps of tasty protein packed in slime ? I may be wrong of course oh lord, and even far too proud in my assumptions of your wishes, in which case then I will surely land in hell, and burn forever as a punishment for bludgeoning all those fishes. Whatever lord, although it may be wrong, and not in accord with your decrees, this fascinating fishing with an artificial fly. If you dont mind, and nothing else occurs to change my mind, I

Question:

Hi my name is Sean and I’m looking for a fly tying instructor with 1/2 hours drive of Exeter, New Hampshire. I’ve been fly fishing for several years and just got my first kit and would like to take some tying lessons. Thanks for any help, Sean

Response:

Hi my name is Sean and I’m looking for a fly tying instructor with 1/2 hours drive of Exeter, New Hampshire. I’ve been fly fishing for several years and just got my first kit and would like to take some tying lessons. Thanks for any help, Sean

I believe the shop in Kittery, the Kittery trading post offer lesson. If you can drive a little farther, American Angling in Salem NH and the Hunters in New Boston also offers classes. Wayne

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Question:

This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi again Actually I have a very nice picture of a longhaired blond girl fishing for salmon in nothing but boots, but I will have to get some permissions first. I will see what I can do.

        you sure as hell have *my* permission, torben, ol’ chum!                 wayno the lustful – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –       Torben Meldgaard have to check with the better half, eh? also….although this is a text ng, you have my ok to post the jpg here Happy Holidays, –Wataugan Walt

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Hi again        Torben

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi again Actually I have a very nice picture of a longhaired blond girl fishing for salmon in nothing but boots, but I will have to get some permissions first. I will see what I can do.       Torben Meldgaard

have to check with the better half, eh? also….although this is a text ng, you have my ok to post the jpg here Happy Holidays, –Wataugan Walt

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Hi again Actually I have a very nice picture of a longhaired blond girl fishing for salmon in nothing but boots, but I will have to get some permissions first. I will see what I can do.        Torben Meldgaard – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Torben, A very nice site. To generate interest and flow with the popular perception of Scandinavia, try posting pictures of tall, beautiful, blonde Scandinavian women rushing from the sauna to plunge in the cold trout and salmon infested waters. Even consider posing one of these young ladies with fly vest and rod while exploring the depths of the river with her streamer. Wayne Hart To Fish is Human….To Release Divine

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Torben, A very nice site. To generate interest and flow with the popular perception of Scandinavia, try posting pictures of tall, beautiful, blonde Scandinavian women rushing from the sauna to plunge in the cold trout and salmon infested waters. Even consider posing one of these young ladies with fly vest and rod while exploring the depths of the river with her streamer. Wayne Hart

I must say Wayne you are perfectly right. A couple of really good tall beautiful naked Scandnavian blondes always compensates me for catching nothing on Scandinavian rivers.  My wife is of the opinion that the Salmon are in fact secondary, ridiculous idea of course. But I bet you know just exactly what I mean ! Tight lines ! Mike Connor

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Hi there I just want to tell you the address of my new home page about fly fishing in Scandinavia. Please take a look at it and give me some constructive criticism, I promise You I won’t cry.   Here goes:               http://www.imf.au.dk/~tmm/flyfish.html     Yours truly    Torben Meldgaard

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Torben, A very nice site. To generate interest and flow with the popular perception of Scandinavia, try posting pictures of tall, beautiful, blonde Scandinavian women rushing from the sauna to plunge in the cold trout and salmon infested waters. Even consider posing one of these young ladies with fly vest and rod while exploring the depths of the river with her streamer. Wayne Hart To Fish is Human….To Release Divine – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi there I just want to tell you the address of my new home page about fly fishing in Scandinavia. Please take a look at it and give me some constructive criticism, I promise You I won’t cry.   Here goes:               http://www.imf.au.dk/~tmm/flyfish.html     Yours truly    Torben Meldgaard Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Torben Meldgaard Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin:          vcard fn:             Torben Meldgaard n:              Meldgaard;Torben org:            Institute of Biology, Aarhus, Denmark title:          Stud.Scient x-mozilla-cpt:  ;14432 x-mozilla-html: FALSE version:        2.1 end:            vcard

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Question:

I’m looking to buy an economical 4-piece 6 wt fly rod. Does anyone have recommendations? I see Cortland does one, the CL series. Does anyone have experience with these? Thanks for any help. Simon

Response:

I’m looking to buy an economical 4-piece 6 wt fly rod. Does anyone have recommendations? I see Cortland does one, the CL series. Does anyone have experience with these? Thanks for any help. Simon

Check out the St Croix Imperial 4 pc 5/6 or 6/7. Either one will set you back $150 and well worth the price. Frank Church Elkhart, IN

Response:

Yes.   Check out Fenwick.  I own a FF756-4 that’s 4 piece glass 6 weight.  Comes with a nice bag and case for $100.  but you might think about the GFS70ML-4 HMG graphite spin-fly rod at $115. Buena suerte, Lou Lampe

Response:

Simon, I bought an 8wt from http://www.brazosflyfishers.com/ Lauren and her husband were wonderful at helping i the selection.  I highly recommend these nice folks. Cheers, Mitch – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m looking to buy an economical 4-piece 6 wt fly rod. Does anyone have recommendations? I see Cortland does one, the CL series. Does anyone have experience with these? Thanks for any help. Simon

Response:

What ever you decide, may I suggest that you cast the rod before buying. Having been at this game for 60 plus years, I still think that the biggest mistake that people make is buying by brand name rather than choosing the rod that complements their casting style. Best of luck. J.

Response:

I’m looking to buy an economical 4-piece 6 wt fly rod. Does anyone have recommendations? I see Cortland does one, the CL series. Does anyone have experience with these? Thanks for any help. Simon

Hi, Not all the Cortland CL 4 piece rods cast well. The 8′ #4/5 with a #5 and the 8′6" #4/5 with a #5 both are pretty good for $110 with an aluminum tube. You might also try the 8′6" #5/6 with a #6 line. The 9′ #5/6 and the 9′ #6/7 are both pretty ‘cluby’ or ‘boardy’. St. Croix has some pretty good 4 piece rods at around $150. They come in 9′#5/6 and 9′#6/7 in 4 piece with a Cordura covered plastic tube. If you can get up to the $200 to $300 range, Sage, Loomis, Scott and T&T have some real great casting 3 and 4 piece rods that are lighter than the Cortland, St. Croix or Redington. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

Response:

I’m looking to buy an economical 4-piece 6 wt fly rod. Does anyone have recommendations? I see Cortland does one, the CL series. Does anyone have experience with these? Thanks for any help. Simon

I recently bought a St. Croix Imperial 9′ 5/6 4pc rod and highly recommend it. It cost $150. Not sure how that compares to the price on the Cortland.

Response:

I’m looking to buy an economical 4-piece 6 wt fly rod. Does anyone have recommendations? I see Cortland does one, the CL series. Does anyone have experience with these?

Fsihed a demo Redington Red Start 5/6 wgt yesterday – a great rod for the $$$. Rod, reel, line, backing & leader, plus jazzy hard case that holds rod w/mounted reel only $199 (with lifetime guarantee). My regular rod is a Sage,  but I liked the Redington a lot. Try one! Kent Edmonds Flyfishing West Georgia & Beyond http://kje.home.mindspring.com

Response:

look at st croix. their imperial line has nice 4 pc rods for about $130. I’ve got a 4/5 which i like a lot, though it casts better as a 5 than a four. I’ve never had any problem taking it on planes either. gc – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m looking to buy an economical 4-piece 6 wt fly rod. Does anyone have recommendations? I see Cortland does one, the CL series. Does anyone have experience with these? Fsihed a demo Redington Red Start 5/6 wgt yesterday – a great rod for the $$$. Rod, reel, line, backing & leader, plus jazzy hard case that holds rod w/mounted reel only $199 (with lifetime guarantee). My regular rod is a Sage,  but I liked the Redington a lot. Try one! Kent Edmonds Flyfishing West Georgia & Beyond http://kje.home.mindspring.com

Response:

I own a Cortland and LOVE it . I have compared it to a Reddington and there is no comparison for the money,the Reddington is a cheap looking rod with the guides just tacked on , the cork looks bad , no winding check and so on . KW – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m looking to buy an economical 4-piece 6 wt fly rod. Does anyone have recommendations? I see Cortland does one, the CL series. Does anyone have experience with these? Fsihed a demo Redington Red Start 5/6 wgt yesterday – a great rod for the $$$. Rod, reel, line, backing & leader, plus jazzy hard case that holds rod w/mounted reel only $199 (with lifetime guarantee). My regular rod is a Sage,  but I liked the Redington a lot. Try one! Kent Edmonds Flyfishing West Georgia & Beyond http://kje.home.mindspring.com

Response:

I’m looking to buy an economical 4-piece 6 wt fly rod. Does anyone have recommendations? I see Cortland does one, the CL series. Does anyone have experience with these?

I recently was given a Redington 5wt 9′ and it is truly a great rod to work with light action and amazing to use.. it is like a divining rod in your hands learn to use it properly and you cannot go wrong plus the lifetime guarantee is another great part of the bargain, Pierre

Response:

look at st croix. their imperial line has nice 4 pc rods for about $130. I’ve got a 4/5 which i like a lot, though it casts better as a 5 than a four. I’ve never had any problem taking it on planes either.

I recently looked at both the Redington RedStart and the St. Croix Imperial in a 5/6 weight at the local fly shop.  Went in with St. Croix as my intended choice because my current rod is a St. Croix Pro Graphite (operating on the principle of "My mind is made up – stop confusing me with facts" .  The guy in the shop encouraged me to cast both of ‘em using the same line & reel.  Wound up getting the Redington.  I found the Imperial was softer than I’m comfortable with, or conversely that I just liked the feel of the RedStart better.  I recommend that you cast at least a couple different rods before you make your choice.  Even if the rod you find you like best costs 20 bucks more, well…20 bucks isn’t much to pay to be happy, and it’s not much to have in your pocket if you’re not happy.  Your mileage may vary. — Bob Jarvis Mail address hacked to foil spammers!

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Question:

Anyone have any current information on the streams of PA. If you do please let me know! What I am look for is cool water and maybe some trout. I know it is tough this time of year. Thank in advance Roger Grant

Response:

If it doesn’t rain soon we’re not going to have ANY water in PA, cold or otherwise.  But for stream conditions and hatch advice in southeast PA, especially Cumberland County (Yellow Breeches, Letort, etc), I suggest you call Cold Spring Anglers at 717 245-2646. They’re very good and run a first rate shop.

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How small a stream are you comfortable on??  E-mail me.. Despite the pontifications of the westerners here, not all the wild trout are west of the Mississippi…:)

Response:

Anyone have any current information on the streams of PA. If you do please let me know! What I am look for is cool water and maybe some trout. I know it is tough this time of year. Thank in advance Roger Grant

Roger: As others may note, all waters are low and warm – we need some of Hurricane Danny’s rain.  What part of the state will you be in? Mark Faulkner

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone have any current information on the streams of PA. If you do please let me know! What I am look for is cool water and maybe some trout. I know it is tough this time of year. Thank in advance Roger Grant Roger: As others may note, all waters are low and warm – we need some of Hurricane Danny’s rain.  What part of the state will you be in?

Hi Mark; I am from Ohio and travel is a consideration but not always. Roger

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How small of a stream are you comfortable on.. This makes a difference as well…:)

Response:

Anyone have any current information on the streams of PA.

If you do please let me know! What I am look for is cool water and maybe some trout. I

know it is tough this time of year. Thank in advance Roger Grant

My Brother in Law says there’s been NO rain for weeks and streams flows are VERY low. He’s been mountain biking instead. Fishing’s great here in Slovenia! Mike

Response:

It depends on what part of PA you’re interested in but, for the southeast, especially Cumberland county (Yellow Breeches, Letort, etc), I suggest you call Cold Spring Anglers at 717 245-2646.  They have the latest stream and hatch information and run a very nice shop as well.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone have any current information on the streams of PA. If you do please let me know! What I am look for is cool water and maybe some trout. I know it is tough this time of year. Thank in advance Roger Grant Roger: As others may note, all waters are low and warm – we need some of Hurricane Danny’s rain.  What part of the state will you be in? Hi Mark; I am from Ohio and travel is a consideration but not always. Roger

Central Pa still has some good fishing in its Limestoners dispite the lack of rain.  Spring Cr. Big Fishing Cr,  Spruce Cr., all are still fishing good and producing some nice fish.  I guide on these streams and have been doing quite well.  If you have any questions feel free to e-mail me and I do what I can to help.  Pete (Serene Fly-Fishing Adventures)  <’{{{,<

Response:

If it doesn’t rain soon we’re not going to have ANY water in PA, cold or otherwise.  But for stream conditions and hatch advice in southeast PA, especially Cumberland County (Yellow Breeches, Letort, etc), I suggest

I suggest calling Bill or Dusty at Yellow Breeches Outfitters for this area – They are right on the Yellow Breeches in Boiling Springs.  The Breeches can still be productive early morning and I suspect these recent rains will extend time on stream (planning on going this evening).  Yellow Breeches Outfitters # is 717-258-6752

Response:

Question:

A new client will have me spending a fair amount of time in Phoenix. Where do I fish (trout or bass, not picky) in this desert…or do I have to take up (ugh) golf?

Hi Steph, Call Jim Fraijo at Arizona Outdoors in Tempe.  He has always shared information freely with me (602-968-3868). — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 catalog) http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

Response:

A new client will have me spending a fair amount of time in Phoenix. Where do I fish (trout or bass, not picky) in this desert…or do I have to take up (ugh) golf?

Scope out the AZ FF site at: http://www.azlink.com/~jshannon/ DawsonH

Response:

A new client will have me spending a fair amount of time in Phoenix. Where do I fish (trout or bass, not picky) in this desert…or do I have to take up (ugh) golf?

Response: