Question:

Mike, Thanks for the links on knots (and other links in your posts). Guy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Okay, what’s a uni-knot?  Do these work for tying the fly on?  And yes. I was using extra wraps to tie the knots. Thanks, Eric http://www.stren.com/stren/knot7.htm http://www.stren.com/stren/knot8.htm http://www.marinews.com/fishing/Knots%20&%20Rigging/fk_uniknt.htm It has the special advantage that you can join lines of unequal diameter using it.# TL MC

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Mike, Thanks for the links on knots (and other links in your posts). Guy

My pleasure. TL MC

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Our .002 extruder finally arrived.  Initial tests show our new tippet material which is only .002 in diameter has a breaking point of 10.9 pounds! I only wonder if we should pay for an extruder die of only .001 in diameter? Mathamatical calculations indicate if and when we start making 1.2 # test tippets, they will be only .0005 in diameter, but no one will be able to see or handle the stuff in order to tie a knot!

Close. I get .0003318 in diameter. riverman

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In fact, I’ll be testing them in six hours on Penn’s Creek!   d;0) Dave

tight lines! –waldo

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I use Uni-knots and almost never had problems. Shame on you: didn’t you use a wire trace on your pike-leader? Hans van der Stroom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I finally broke down about spent $10 to buy a spool of fluorocarbon tippet. My problem is that I can’t get the knots to hold.  I used my standard blood knot and improved clinch knot.  Any rate, the knots I use for regular mono don’t seem to work with FC. As a side note,  I got a hit on a northern pike but lost him because the blood knot failed.  I tied on a mono tippet and put on new fly.  I caught and landed another pike, or at least so I thought.  Out of the pike’s mouth was some fishing line and at the end was the fly I lost when the blood knot slipped.  I don’t I have ever knowing caught the same fish twice when I wasn’t sight fishing. I’d appreciate any advice on working with FC tippet. Thanks, Eric

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Okay, what’s a uni-knot?  Do these work for tying the fly on?  And yes. I was using extra wraps to tie the knots. Thanks, Eric

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Okay, what’s a uni-knot?  Do these work for tying the fly on?  And yes. I was using extra wraps to tie the knots. Thanks, Eric

http://www.stren.com/stren/knot7.htm http://www.stren.com/stren/knot8.htm http://www.marinews.com/fishing/Knots%20&%20Rigging/fk_uniknt.htm It has the special advantage that you can join lines of unequal diameter using it.# TL MC

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Slay dem fish Dave Handyman   Mike

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I use uni-knots for leaders rather than bloodknots. I use a fair bit of FC and don’t have slippage problems.

You’ll get a hearty second recommendation from me regarding uniknots. Mu

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Our .002 extruder finally arrived.  Initial tests show our new tippet material which is only .002 in diameter has a breaking point of 10.9 pounds! I only wonder if we should pay for an extruder die of only .001 in diameter? Mathamatical calculations indicate if and when we start making 1.2 # test tippets, they will be only .0005 in diameter, but no one will be able to see or handle the stuff in order to tie a knot! hum?  That sort of sucks. George Gehrke "science beyond reason" Sic ‘em, George! When folks get into the dizzier realms of extra-fine tippets, 30 yard casts, and tying flies that would fool a biologist they’re no longer fishing; they’ve become technoslaves. Yours in the nrth Maine woods, Pete Hilton aka The Ent — Second-ratedness, unfailing law of: Never be the first to try anything.    anon.

I’m on your side also. GG

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Eric Larsen writes: I finally broke down about spent $10 to buy a spool of fluorocarbon tippet. My problem is that I can’t get the knots to hold.  I used my standard blood knot and improved clinch knot.  Any rate, the knots I use for regular mono don’t seem to work with FC.

I use FC exclusively when nymphing and have no problems with knot failures.  I use a surgeon’s knot and a clinch knot, and I tie them with a tool.  No problems! In fact, I’ll be testing them in six hours on Penn’s Creek!   d;0) Dave

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Our .002 extruder finally arrived.  Initial tests show our new tippet material which is only .002 in diameter has a breaking point of 10.9 pounds! I only wonder if we should pay for an extruder die of only .001 in diameter? Mathamatical calculations indicate if and when we start making 1.2 # test tippets, they will be only .0005 in diameter, but no one will be able to see or handle the stuff in order to tie a knot! hum?  That sort of sucks. George Gehrke "science beyond reason"

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I use a triple surgeon’s knot, and it works fine.  For attaching to wire or shock tippet, I use an albright knot with a dozen turns.  No troubles with broken or slipped knots. Chas ..snip.. I’d appreciate any advice on working with FC tippet. Thanks, Eric

Fix underscore in address to reply

Response:

Our .002 extruder finally arrived.  Initial tests show our new tippet material which is only .002 in diameter has a breaking point of 10.9 pounds! I only wonder if we should pay for an extruder die of only .001 in diameter? Mathamatical calculations indicate if and when we start making 1.2 # test tippets, they will be only .0005 in diameter, but no one will be able to see or handle the stuff in order to tie a knot! hum?  That sort of sucks. George Gehrke "science beyond reason"

Sic ‘em, George! When folks get into the dizzier realms of extra-fine tippets, 30 yard casts, and tying flies that would fool a biologist they’re no longer fishing; they’ve become technoslaves. Yours in the nrth Maine woods, Pete Hilton aka The Ent — Second-ratedness, unfailing law of: Never be the first to try anything.    anon.

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I use uni-knots for leaders rather than bloodknots. I use a fair bit of FC and don’t have slippage problems. Well done on the double BTW Steve

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Hi All, I think that lots of the original FC is hard to knot so that is why I have not really recommended it to everyone. $13.95 and the Rio "Fluoroflex Plus",  knots seem to be much more dependable. We sell more FC every year now. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I finally broke down about spent $10 to buy a spool of fluorocarbon tippet. My problem is that I can’t get the knots to hold.  I used my standard blood knot and improved clinch knot.  Any rate, the knots I use for regular mono don’t seem to work with FC. As a side note,  I got a hit on a northern pike but lost him because the blood knot failed.  I tied on a mono tippet and put on new fly.  I caught and landed another pike, or at least so I thought.  Out of the pike’s mouth was some fishing line and at the end was the fly I lost when the blood knot slipped.  I don’t I have ever knowing caught the same fish twice when I wasn’t sight fishing. I’d appreciate any advice on working with FC tippet. Thanks, Eric

Response:

I finally broke down about spent $10 to buy a spool of fluorocarbon tippet. My problem is that I can’t get the knots to hold.  I used my standard blood knot and improved clinch knot.  Any rate, the knots I use for regular mono don’t seem to work with FC. As a side note,  I got a hit on a northern pike but lost him because the blood knot failed.  I tied on a mono tippet and put on new fly.  I caught and landed another pike, or at least so I thought.  Out of the pike’s mouth was some fishing line and at the end was the fly I lost when the blood knot slipped.  I don’t I have ever knowing caught the same fish twice when I wasn’t sight fishing. I’d appreciate any advice on working with FC tippet. Thanks, Eric

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Question:

Things seem to have changed from the good ‘ol ‘357′ fishing days …… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The only trouble I had was  with a fly fisherman who was alone in  a 3-4 person  spot and thought I was rude  moving into it.

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<snip Choc fishing maggots for carp in Japan. Excellent. Most Excellent. — TBone Walker The Halfordian Golfer

Maggots are great to fish on a flyrod. They are not easily cast off the hook, and are great fishcatchers. Good, reliable pattern for me. Herman

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Choc fishing maggots for carp in Japan. Excellent. Most Excellent.

And ethical. — Charlie…

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I ve been up at  Pulaski a couple  days  a week during Oct., generally at the Baseball field. The only trouble I had was  with a fly fisherman who was alone in  a 3-4 person  spot and thought I was rude  moving into it.

I fished the baseball field area many years ago (pre-ffing), and IIRC, it’s a madhouse of shoulder to shoulder spin fishermen.   Anybody who’d seriously attempt to fly fish there is crazier that I am.  :-) Joe F.

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……I think back on how insuffereable I must have been to my trolling and casting buddies when I went through my 20 years of catch and release flyfishing purist horseshit…..

Might be worthwhile to approach this from a slightly different angle. Ever stop to think that maybe you are simply insufferable……that it might not have anything to do with whatever dim glimmerings of a philosophy are bumping around in your skull at any given moment, or the way you fish? Something to think about anyway. Wolfgang

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 The "Unified Stream Theory"  has eluded the grasp of every philosopher  that has tried to fabricate it so far. — Don Thompson Another Thompson Scion

LOL !!!  MT

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Well…most flyfishermen I’ve met really do think that they are superior No, not the back cast  but the latter

Before I fly fished and in the first couple of years after I started, most fly fishermen that I encountered did fit that mold.  I’ve met plenty however who are not like that at all.  My favorite moment from the shad trip this past June happened while standing in the river with Bill Kiene. He was talking in that particular Kiene way – I don’t know if he is trying to be funny but for some reason you want to smile or even start laughing when he’s saying stuff.  He was admiring the colors of the sunset when he directed my attention to a bait fisherman on far bank.  I’ll paraphrase what he said but it went something along the lines of: that guy might be soaking stinkbait for catfish but I bet he loves the outdoors and this river as much as we do.  So we aren’t that different from him.  And that’s a good thing. Mu

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well…most flyfishermen I’ve met really do think that they are superior No, not the back cast  but the latter Before I fly fished and in the first couple of years after I started, most fly fishermen that I encountered did fit that mold.  I’ve met plenty however who are not like that at all.  My favorite moment from the shad trip this past June happened while standing in the river with Bill Kiene. He was talking in that particular Kiene way – I don’t know if he is trying to be funny but for some reason you want to smile or even start laughing when he’s saying stuff.  He was admiring the colors of the sunset when he directed my attention to a bait fisherman on far bank.  I’ll paraphrase what he said but it went something along the lines of: that guy might be soaking stinkbait for catfish but I bet he loves the outdoors and this river as much as we do.  So we aren’t that different from him.  And that’s a good thing.

I’ve heard nothing but good things about Bill Keine. I’d like to fish with him sometime. Willi

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I’ve heard nothing but good things about Bill Keine…..

Sorry.  Been busy.  Give me a couple of days. Wolfgang

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Their comment was they  prefer to stay away from fly fisherman. I’m assuming you mean as so to not be hooked on a wayward backcast ? An interesting perspective…… Well…most flyfishermen I’ve met really do think that they are superior because they flyfish. This is unbelievably sickening to the average blue collar fishermen.  I think back on how insuffereable I must have been to my trolling and casting buddies when I went through my 20 years of catch and release flyfishing purist horseshit. I owe them for sticking with me.

No, not the back cast  but the latter. I guess each type of fishing has   it s own ethos, maybe  somewhere out there  theyll be a unifying   principals of  fishing  that someone will discover that works for everything.  MT

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No, not the back cast  but the latter. I guess each type of fishing has it s own ethos, maybe  somewhere out there  theyll be a unifying principals of  fishing  that someone will discover that works for everything.

That’s the funny thing. There is a common core, in fishing probably more than in any other human endeavour. If you read the english fishing publication "The Waterlog" it becomes immediately apparent where deep love and lore of fishing exists and where one can find these elusive unifying principals. — TBone Walker The Halfordian Golfer

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Their comment was they  prefer to stay away from fly fisherman. I’m assuming you mean as so to not be hooked on a wayward backcast ? An interesting perspective…… Well…most flyfishermen I’ve met really do think that they are superior because they flyfish. This is unbelievably sickening to the average blue collar fishermen.  I think back on how insuffereable I must have been to my trolling and casting buddies when I went through my 20 years of catch and release flyfishing purist horseshit. I owe them for sticking with me. No, not the back cast  but the latter. I guess each type of fishing has it s own ethos, maybe  somewhere out there  theyll be a unifying principals of  fishing  that someone will discover that works for everything.

 The "Unified Stream Theory"  has eluded the grasp of every philosopher that has tried to fabricate it so far. — Don Thompson Another Thompson Scion

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It’s like an addiction – you know it isn’t good for you, you know the neighbourhood isn’t the best, you know that nothing much good comes of it, but you go anyway.  At least once a year, I need my salmon fix. Those that know the Great Lakes tributary salmon hunt, find superlatives are non-existant and compliments stick south of the navel, yet it’s amazing how many of us like to get down and grubby. The Burnhamthorpe parking lot was a sight to be seen.  Not a spot anywhere, with the truly desperate parking on any semi-level ground not occupied by an immoveable object.  The new 2002 fishing car got broken-in as I scraped its belly on a half-buried concrete curb in an effort to secure the last stretch of unmuddied grass.  Truck habits are obviously hard to break.  Two weeks ago it would’ve been, "What curb?" My Scott SAS two-hander had only been out a couple of times and still didn’t have a fish to it’s credit – neither did the reel (in my possession.)  So despite this being highly unsuitable conditions for a two-hander, I took it anyway.  The long and the short of it – fair hooked three, landed one.   Though not Alaska combat conditions, one does fish cheek-by-jowl. There’s something to be said for shooting the shit with a half dozen or more anglers with earshot – sharing a laugh or helping out with another’s fish, spotting a salmon for someone, or giving ground when your offering has been rejected and letting someone else have a go. More than just fishing, given proximity to a couple of pleasant personalities, it turns into a little social event.  There is the odd dickhead but it isn’t much of a challenge in refusing to let the mood be spoiled. Probably take the bro-in-law and Scott out next Sunday morning for one last try. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Though not Alaska combat conditions, one does fish cheek-by-jowl. There’s something to be said for shooting the shit with a half dozen or more anglers with earshot – sharing a laugh or helping out with another’s fish, spotting a salmon for someone, or giving ground when your offering has been rejected and letting someone else have a go. More than just fishing, given proximity to a couple of pleasant personalities, it turns into a little social event.  There is the odd dickhead but it isn’t much of a challenge in refusing to let the mood be spoiled.

…this is so, well… YOU!  one of the reasons your presence at the roff gatherings is such a welcoming thing. well said… jeff (a sow’s ear)

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There’s something to be said for shooting the shit with a half dozen or more anglers with earshot – sharing a laugh or helping out with another’s fish, spotting a salmon for someone, or giving ground when your offering has been rejected and letting someone else have a go. More than just fishing, given proximity to a couple of pleasant personalities, it turns into a little social event.  There is the odd dickhead but it isn’t much of a challenge in refusing to let the mood be spoiled.

That’s a good description of the silver lining to the crowds on the Salmon River in Pulaski.   Yeah, it can be a bit testy at times, but now and then you find yourself, as much through luck as anything else, standing amongst a crowd of genuinely good-natured fellows out to have as much fun as you.   In some respects, there’s a parallel to ROFF in these situations.   A group of strangers shout, joke, fish, and generally have a good time in each other’s company; and the occasional dickhead doesn’t ruin the fun.   Solitude on a peaceful stream is still great, but there *is* something to be said for the group mayhem during these runs. Joe F. (ten more days ’til my turn.)

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That’s a good description of the silver lining to the crowds on the Salmon River in Pulaski.   Yeah, it can be a bit testy at times, but now and then you find yourself, as much through luck as anything else, standing amongst a crowd of genuinely good-natured fellows out to have as much fun as you.  

That sounds a lot like shad fishing on the American River in Sacramento. Now if only the shad would cooperate … — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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 I ve been up at  Pulaski a couple  days  a week during Oct., generally at the Baseball field. I ve found the  other fisherman up there to be a great  bunch of folks, willing to  get out of your way when a  hooked salmon  goes plunging thru the spots they re fishing, helping with   landing and interesting to talk to. The only trouble I had was  with a fly fisherman who was alone in  a 3-4 person  spot and thought I was rude  moving into it. As I was only there to  help a friend get started  salmon fishing I soon left    once he   got the hang  it.  I mentioned this encounter to some of the regulars   on the other bank. Their comment was they  prefer to stay away from fly fisherman. An interesting perspective……  MT

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Their comment was they  prefer to stay away from fly fisherman.

I’m assuming you mean as so to not be hooked on a wayward backcast ? An interesting perspective……

Well…most flyfishermen I’ve met really do think that they are superior because they flyfish. This is unbelievably sickening to the average blue collar fishermen.  I think back on how insuffereable I must have been to my trolling and casting buddies when I went through my 20 years of catch and release flyfishing purist horseshit. I owe them for sticking with me. Choc fishing maggots for carp in Japan. Excellent. Most Excellent. — TBone Walker The Halfordian Golfer

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Question:

I don’t think that the water temps you stated will support brook or brown trout, so you may not have a lot of options, but rainbows may not stick around for you to catch them. I was under the impression that brown trout tcan olerate higher water temperatures than can rainbows. Isn’t that so? I’ve read that browns can survive if the water temperature does not consistently exceed 70 degrees F.

You are correct, I was wrong about the browns.  Brown trout are the most tolerant of higher water temps by about 1 degree and can tolerate short-term peaks in temperature much better than other types of trout (such as after a warm summer downpour).  I talked to my grandfather about this post last night–he’s been a private hatchery owner since the late 1940s–and he brought up the pH level of the water.  I think he said that rainbows are more tolerant of acidic water than other species. Tom Before you buy.

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I don’t think that the water temps you stated will support brook or brown trout, so you may not have a lot of options, but rainbows may not stick around for you to catch them.  

I was under the impression that brown trout tcan olerate higher water temperatures than can rainbows. Isn’t that so? I’ve read that browns can survive if the water temperature does not consistently exceed 70 degrees F. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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I don’t think that the water temps you stated will support brook or brown trout, so you may not have a lot of options, but rainbows may not stick around for you to catch them. I was under the impression that brown trout tcan olerate higher water temperatures than can rainbows. Isn’t that so? I’ve read that browns can survive if the water temperature does not consistently exceed 70 degrees F.

I fish an area of my local river that I call transition water. Over about a five mile stretch, the river changes dramatically. At the uppermost part of this stretch, rainbows and browns are about equal in number and there are no warm water fishes. Further downstream, there are more browns than rainbows and there are a few carp as well as some warm water minnows. Toward the end of the transition area, there are lots of carp and warm water minnows plus a few VERY large browns. Finally, there are no trout left. Willi

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I am fortunate enough to own a decent stretch of a water (med.size creek) in SW Va. It has good numbers of smallmouth,red-eyes,pike,and many blue gill. In the deepest hole, it’s about 10-11 feet deep.I have measured the temp in July at the bottom. It was around 65 degrees. It keeps a pretty good flow. I put rainbows in a couple of years ago, back in my worm dunking days, and caught some trout this past spring so some must be holding over.My questions: I want to put some trout in this fall/winter…what is to be considered? How many? what type, (all I have been able to locate so far are rainbow and brookies), size? Will my neighbors be eating good, come the first good rain? Am I wasting money??? Other considerations from you folk would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Tim Long

Tim, My Uncle owns a private hatchery here in central PA.  One thing that you may not have considered is the tendency for rainbows to point their nose toward the sea and swim.  One tagged rainbow released into a trout stream here in PA was caught in the Susquehanna river in Maryland!  Not all rainbows will head immediately for the ocean, but you cannot really count on them to stay in the stretch of water you put them in, either. Rainbows swimming for the ocean are akin to throwing your money into the creek and watching it drift away. I don’t think that the water temps you stated will support brook or brown trout, so you may not have a lot of options, but rainbows may not stick around for you to catch them.  Some private hatcheries raise ‘tiger trout’–a sterile cross between a brook and a brown trout (kind of like a mule, I guess)–that doesn’t head downstream like a bullet and fights like the devil.  These ‘tiger trout’ may be able to tolerate the water temps you’ve got, and since you aren’t interested in reproduction they may be just the thing.  Obviously, the purists in the world would look down their noses at this suggestion but it is a possibility. Just trying to be helpful, Tom Before you buy.

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Any time you want to come down your more than welcome…there are two real nice special reg areas within 20 miles of my land…I’m still confused by all the Waynes in the group, do you hail from Fredicksburg? Tim,wondering if theres a Carl’s to go, Long

Hey Tim!  I’m the REAL Wayne.  YES!! We have a Carl’s Ice Cream shop. It’s just closing down for the winter now but, rest assured, it will rise, like the proverbal phoenix, in the spring.  When the MWC coeds grace the warming rocks of the Rappahannock and the shad grace the planks of hickory, Carl’s ice cream shall flow again. — Wayne…now, where did you say those fish are? To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

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because i am younger and better looking. wayno

Have you EVER known a lawyer to bend the truth! — Wayne (who is sometimes mistaken for Wayno’s son by comely youg things in public) To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

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      well, you know how ol waldo will see double from time to time… I’d heard that<g. I may wander over his way next week if I get tired of looking for ol’ Eric up on Snowbird and Santeetlah… — Charlie…

jeez, guess i need to start worry’n ’bout these "senior moments"…. dang, he was so young. i’d still like to see the brothers wayne in the cottonwood brewery though <g waldo — Walter G. Winter Ezflyfish.com:  http://www.ezflyfish.com Blue Ridge Book Gallery: http://users.boone.net/wgw/brbg.html

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   well, you know how ol waldo will see double from time to time…

I’d heard that<g. I may wander over his way next week if I get tired of looking for ol’ Eric up on Snowbird and Santeetlah… — Charlie…

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remember that ‘ole bob newhart tv show that had the thre brothers, darrell, darell, & darrell? I though only two were named Darrell? (The other was Larry?) — Charlie…

        well, you know how ol waldo will see double from time to time… wayno

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remember that ‘ole bob newhart tv show that had the thre brothers, darrell, darell, & darrell?

I though only two were named Darrell? (The other was Larry?) — Charlie…

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Any time you want to come down your more than welcome…there are two real nice special reg areas within 20 miles of my land…I’m still confused by all the Waynes in the group, do you hail from Fredicksburg? Tim,wondering if theres a Carl’s to go, Long

        no, i am the north carolina wayne; "wayno", to be precise. you can tell me apart from the virginia "wayne" (hart) and the temporarily kansas "wayne" (knight) because i am younger and better looking. wayno

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        no, i am the north carolina wayne; "wayno", to be precise. you can tell me apart from the virginia "wayne" (hart) and the temporarily kansas "wayne" (knight) because i am younger and better looking. wayno

wayno, remember that ‘ole bob newhart tv show that had the thre brothers, darrell, darell, & darrell? i swear ta gawd ya’ll are close enough in looks and stature that…. hart, knight, and you could walk into any dang bar, hell anywhere, and introduce yerselves as the brothers wayne, wayne, and wayno. lmao just thinkin’ bout it…. waldo

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Umm…  do not know if your stream conditions support it, but eggs from suitable stock placed in hatch boxes or specially constructed spawning beds may produce more resilient stock than commercial hatchery produced specimens. For example stock taken directly from your stream could be reared in a small controlled hatchery such as those maintained under permit at local universities.  Eggs taken from your brood stock placed in hatch boxes or spawning beds in your stream could imprint the fish and restore quantities up to the level at which your stream’s habitat will support. This approach may qualify you for a TU "Bring Back The Natives" grant to cover part of your costs. Just a suggestion, you may contact the fisheries department of local universities, and fisheries biologists listed in your yellow pages for ideas or help and your local or national Trout Unlimited organizations for support.  By allowing your stream to be used to advance the science of fisheries, it would be appreciated by everyone involved; faculty, students, volunteers, biologists, neighbors and others. If you chose to do something like this, I would sincerely thank you, and the fish will too! John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There are natives in the head waters of this stream, there is quite a few miles and some small private dams in between me and the little native jewels. I saved an article from a 1991 issue of trout titled "Saved By The Barriers" about the encroachment of rainbows on the brookies of the Great Smoky Mountains National Park that you may find of interest. I think the successful barrier height to keep out rainbows was 6 ft. or so. If you send me your address I’ll send the article on to you. owned ponds. IF there is a chance, specified by the VDGIF, that any stocked fish (rainbows) have the opportunity to take over native waters then the permit is not issued and they strongly urge you not to mess with mother nature. My question is, what if I could find brookies to stock, would these same rules apply. VDGIF may be able to give you some insight as to whether the upper section has ever been stocked. If not and there was any chance of your stocked fish getting upstream then you might reconsider brookies. There probably are stocks of brook trout in Va. that escaped the fish bucket dumping craze and it would be a shame to intoduce outside stock to them. During Hoover’s day they even brought in New Hampshire brookies to stock the Rapidan with so I would suspect many other Virginia streams have a wide genetic mix of brookies as well.<G Before flyfishing, we (myself and some family) would buy 25-30 fish at a nearby pond, throw them in the "swimmin’ hole", bait up the kids poles and have a fish fry at the end of a long weekend. Now, I want to do it right, figure out numbers, size, the kind of things that are being discussed in this thread that would give them the best chance to live for as long as possible. As mentioned in my previous post, there are hold overs that I would think have lasted If the upper reaches of your stream are in any of the parks or federal land then I would suggest getting in touch with some of the local TU people to find out who the govt. fisheries biologist is for your area. From my experience with them years ago they are generally hard working, caring folks who really enjoy what they do (despite lousy pay) and would probably be willing to answer your questions and steer you in the right direction. close to two and a half years. (rainbows) NOTHING would make me happier than to be able to go to my own land, and trout fish, however if I thought I would screw up the native population I will never put another fish in. You are to be envied for both your stream and your prudent approach to the problem. Tim, not looking for reproduction,just a good time, Up until the last few years I thought that WAS a good time. Long Kiyu

Response:

I am fortunate enough to own a decent stretch of a water (med.size creek) in SW Va. It has good numbers of smallmouth,red-eyes,pike,and many blue gill. In the deepest hole, it’s about 10-11 feet deep.I have measured the temp in July at the bottom. It was around 65 degrees. It keeps a pretty good flow. I put rainbows in a couple of years ago, back in my worm dunking days, and caught some trout this past spring so some must be holding over.My questions: I want to put some trout in this fall/winter…what is to be considered? How many? what type, (all I have been able to locate so far are rainbow and brookies), size? Will my neighbors be eating good, come the first good rain? Am I wasting money??? Other considerations from you folk would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Tim Long Before you buy.

Response:

The first consideration is that the stocking of exotic species in a free flowing stream is probably illegal, if not it should be. Check with your state’s fish and game agency. Keith – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am fortunate enough to own a decent stretch of a water (med.size creek) in SW Va. It has good numbers of smallmouth,red-eyes,pike,and many blue gill. In the deepest hole, it’s about 10-11 feet deep.I have measured the temp in July at the bottom. It was around 65 degrees. It keeps a pretty good flow. I put rainbows in a couple of years ago, back in my worm dunking days, and caught some trout this past spring so some must be holding over.My questions: I want to put some trout in this fall/winter…what is to be considered? How many? what type, (all I have been able to locate so far are rainbow and brookies), size? Will my neighbors be eating good, come the first good rain? Am I wasting money??? Other considerations from you folk would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Tim Long Before you buy.

Response:

 I want to put some trout in this fall/winter…what is to be considered? How many? what type, (all I have been able to locate so far are rainbow and brookies), size?

        well, tim, you just let ol wayno help you with this troublesome dilemma…here’s the deal:  you put as many rainbows in that water as you can afford, from 10 to 18 inches.  brookies, i am advised, would not be happy for long with water over 65 degrees. then, you have me up for a long weekend once a month from now until the little devils are appropriately…identified.         wayno, always willing to help those in need

Response:

There are natives in the head waters of this stream, there is quite a few miles and some small private dams in between me and the little native jewels.

If you live in Virginia there aren’t any native rainbows in your stream. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

I didn’t mean rainbows,,,native around here automatically means brookies. Tim There are natives in the head waters of this stream, there is quite a few miles and some small private dams in between me and the little native jewels. If you live in Virginia there aren’t any native rainbows in your stream. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Before you buy.

Response:

Any time you want to come down your more than welcome…there are two real nice special reg areas within 20 miles of my land…I’m still confused by all the Waynes in the group, do you hail from Fredicksburg? Tim,wondering if theres a Carl’s to go, Long – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  I want to put some trout in this fall/winter…what is to be considered? How many? what type, (all I have been able to locate so far are rainbow and brookies), size?    well, tim, you just let ol wayno help you with this troublesome dilemma…here’s the deal:  you put as many rainbows in that water as you can afford, from 10 to 18 inches.  brookies, i am advised, would not be happy for long with water over 65 degrees. then, you have me up for a long weekend once a month from now until the little devils are appropriately…identified.    wayno, always willing to help those in need

Before you buy.

Response:

There are natives in the head waters of this stream, there is quite a few miles and some small private dams in between me and the little native jewels.

I saved an article from a 1991 issue of trout titled "Saved By The Barriers" about the encroachment of rainbows on the brookies of the Great Smoky Mountains National Park that you may find of interest. I think the successful barrier height to keep out rainbows was 6 ft. or so. If you send me your address I’ll send the article on to you. owned ponds. IF there is a chance, specified by the VDGIF, that any stocked fish (rainbows) have the opportunity to take over native waters then the permit is not issued and they strongly urge you not to mess with mother nature. My question is, what if I could find brookies to stock, would these same rules apply.

VDGIF may be able to give you some insight as to whether the upper section has ever been stocked. If not and there was any chance of your stocked fish getting upstream then you might reconsider brookies. There probably are stocks of brook trout in Va. that escaped the fish bucket dumping craze and it would be a shame to intoduce outside stock to them. During Hoover’s day they even brought in New Hampshire brookies to stock the Rapidan with so I would suspect many other Virginia streams have a wide genetic mix of brookies as well.<G Before flyfishing, we (myself and some family) would buy 25-30 fish at a nearby pond, throw them in the "swimmin’ hole", bait up the kids poles and have a fish fry at the end of a long weekend. Now, I want to do it right, figure out numbers, size, the kind of things that are being discussed in this thread that would give them the best chance to live for as long as possible. As mentioned in my previous post, there are hold overs that I would think have lasted

If the upper reaches of your stream are in any of the parks or federal land then I would suggest getting in touch with some of the local TU people to find out who the govt. fisheries biologist is for your area. From my experience with them years ago they are generally hard working, caring folks who really enjoy what they do (despite lousy pay) and would probably be willing to answer your questions and steer you in the right direction. close to two and a half years. (rainbows) NOTHING would make me happier than to be able to go to my own land, and trout fish, however if I thought I would screw up the native population I will never put another fish in.

You are to be envied for both your stream and your prudent approach to the problem. Tim, not looking for reproduction,just a good time,

Up until the last few years I thought that WAS a good time. Long

Kiyu

Response:

There are natives in the head waters of this stream, there is quite a few miles and some small private dams in between me and the little native jewels. I have sent an email to the VDGIF and have yet to get a response from them. What I have gathered so far is, the VDGIF wants to sell private stockers a permit to stock, the state will not sell private owners fish from state run hatcheries, you must find them at private owned ponds. IF there is a chance, specified by the VDGIF, that any stocked fish (rainbows) have the opportunity to take over native waters then the permit is not issued and they strongly urge you not to mess with mother nature.My question is, what if I could find brookies to stock, would these same rules apply. Before flyfishing, we (myself and some family) would buy 25-30 fish at a nearby pond, throw them in the "swimmin’ hole", bait up the kids poles and have a fish fry at the end of a long weekend. Now, I want to do it right, figure out numbers, size, the kind of things that are being discussed in this thread that would give them the best chance to live for as long as possible. As mentioned in my previous post, there are hold overs that I would think have lasted close to two and a half years. (rainbows) NOTHING would make me happier than to be able to go to my own land, and trout fish, however if I thought I would screw up the native population I will never put another fish in. Tim,not looking for reproduction,just a good time, Long – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Considering the expense and effort being exerted out here in the west (and its just getting started) to restore our native trout, specifically cutthroat, a little consideration before carrying our five gallon buckets of rainbows and brookies to our favorite trout stream would have been appropriate I think. Keith I think the cat’s out of the bag in this case, Keith. Also, it seems that native brook trout wouldn’t be able to survive the temperatures in this stream. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Before you buy.

Response:

Considering the expense and effort being exerted out here in the west (and its just getting started) to restore our native trout, specifically cutthroat, a little consideration before carrying our five gallon buckets of rainbows and brookies to our favorite trout stream would have been appropriate I think. Keith

I think the cat’s out of the bag in this case, Keith. Also, it seems that native brook trout wouldn’t be able to survive the temperatures in this stream. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

The first consideration is that the stocking of exotic species in a free flowing stream is probably illegal, if not it should be. Check with your state’s fish and game agency. Keith

        well, we wouldn’t want those dangerously bizarre species like rainbow trout to infiltrate the otherwise pristine water of southwestern virginia, now would we? wayno, defender of red-eyes and other noble fauna

Response:

I am fortunate enough to own a decent stretch of a water (med.size creek) in SW Va. It has good numbers of smallmouth,red-eyes,pike,and many blue gill. In the deepest hole, it’s about 10-11 feet deep.I have measured the temp in July at the bottom. It was around 65 degrees. It keeps a pretty good flow. I put rainbows in a couple of years ago, back in my worm dunking days, and caught some trout this past spring so some must be holding over.My questions: I want to put some trout in this fall/winter…what is to be considered? How many? what type, (all I have been able to locate so far are rainbow and brookies), size? Will my neighbors be eating good, come the first good rain? Am I wasting money??? Other considerations from you folk would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Tim Long

Some questions to which you may wish to have answers, YMMV, of course: What is my goal, and what is my budget?  Then _my_ first call would be to the State – whatever the fish, game, wildlife, natural resources, etc. Department is called in Va. What do you own, i.e., do you actually own the creek, or just the banks, or the banks and bottom, or….?  How many total owners (if known) of/on the entire creek?  Does it originate and terminate on private land, and remain so bounded?  Will they participate?  How about the State?  What about tagging?  Some State Wildlife Dept/Dept. Nat. Resources/Fish and Game, etc. (like So. Carolina’s DNR) will even supply kits.  Can you impound, impede, restrict, or control the flow in any way? You mention holdovers – does the creek appear to completely freeze, or did you mean from you last stocking?  Also, you said you put rainbows, but caught trout.  Did you catch rainbows? What other species and sizes are swimming (to avoid the whole "native" debate…<G) there now, and when and where was any other stocking done? What was stocked? I would also think size of the stockers would be important, as they might simply become prey – that will simply be a location decision, based upon type, size, and number of likely preditory candidates. HTH? R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Before you buy.

Response:

Considering the expense and effort being exerted out here in the west (and its just getting started) to restore our native trout, specifically cutthroat, a little consideration before carrying our five gallon buckets of rainbows and brookies to our favorite trout stream would have been appropriate I think. Keith – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The first consideration is that the stocking of exotic species in a free flowing stream is probably illegal, if not it should be. Check with your state’s fish and game agency. Keith well, we wouldn’t want those dangerously bizarre species like rainbow trout to infiltrate the otherwise pristine water of southwestern virginia, now would we? wayno, defender of red-eyes and other noble fauna

Response:

Question:

Hmmm, wandered the desert on LSD??  Interesting… I could never seem to get beyond the wood grain on the legs of my coffe table….now, maybe I wasn’t getting the good shit ?!?! <g…. YMMV. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Not fishing related, but I knew a guy who dropped acid on Easter Sunday and wandered around the desert madly scribbling his deep thoughts. The next morning, he woke up in his sleeping bag and eagerly grabbed the notebook to see what his brilliance had rendered. The entire thing read: "I hate bugs. I need wind."

Response:

Not fishing related, but I knew a guy who dropped acid on Easter Sunday and wandered around the desert madly scribbling his deep thoughts. The next morning, he woke up in his sleeping bag and eagerly grabbed the notebook to see what his brilliance had rendered. The entire thing read: "I hate bugs. I need wind."

Obviously not a fly fisher.  Should have read:  "I need bugs".  "I hate wind".

Response:

That response is so brilliant I’m going to try to track him down (been 20 years) and send it to him!

Response:

Not fishing related, but I knew a guy who dropped acid on Easter Sunday and wandered around the desert madly scribbling his deep thoughts. The next morning, he woke up in his sleeping bag and eagerly grabbed the notebook to see what his brilliance had rendered. The entire thing read: "I hate bugs. I need wind."

Response:

Not fishing related, but I knew a guy who dropped acid on Easter Sunday and wandered around the desert madly scribbling his deep thoughts. The next morning, he woke up in his sleeping bag and eagerly grabbed the notebook to see what his brilliance had rendered. The entire thing read: "I hate bugs. I need wind."

 Neat set of friends you hang with Harry Mason www.troutflies.com

Response:

Not fishing related, but I knew a guy who dropped acid on Easter Sunday and wandered around the desert madly scribbling his deep thoughts. The next morning, he woke up in his sleeping bag and eagerly grabbed the notebook to see what his brilliance had rendered. The entire thing read: "I hate bugs. I need wind."

Tell him I know exactly what he means.

Response:

Question:

For practice, try standing with your off-side shoulder to your target (ie: your feet will point 90

Question:

A lawn is a good place to learn, just cast the line without a leader or hook..

Hi Ernie, I agree about the lawn(or a decent sized patch of grass) being a good place to learn, but I believe a leader of about 8-9 ft in length with a tiny bit of cotton wool instead of a fly, balances up the line nicely. — Bill

Response:

I’ve been reading a lot about fly fishing; so I’m ready to hit the water. But what I’m still not sure of is how do I get the line out before the cast,especially when I’m fishing stillwaters, or want to fish cross current on a river. Thanks Randy Kadish Go to the Sports section of the following site. Several good videos

on fly fishing. Good Luck http://www.totalmarketing.com

Response:

go back to the library and check out some instructional videos on flyfishing….. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been reading a lot about fly fishing; so I’m ready to hit the water. But what I’m still not sure of is how do I get the line out before the cast,especially when I’m fishing stillwaters, or want to fish cross current on a river. Thanks Randy Kadish

Response:

tie on some kind of leader…that gets down in diameter once or twice…will give you the light end section that’ll help more than the dead pull of the line ..(too heavy). steve d.

Response:

A lawn is a good place to learn, just cast the line without a leader or hook.. — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-Mail Selling my Fly Fishing Books Go to: http://users.ccnet.com/~emh – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – NB beginners usually find it much easier to learn on running rather than still water, because you need the line straight(ish) for the pickup for the next cast, and the current straightens it for you. I disagree. With the current going, it was hellish for me trying to keep the line worked, the cast out of the trees, the fly on the leader, the line that had been stripped our of the current, and staying upright all at the same time, and I was on a slow, large creek. So, I’d say that you should try to find a farm pond before you venture to the river. Bryce Carron Rockford, Tn

Response:

I’ve been reading a lot about fly fishing; so I’m ready to hit the water. But what I’m still not sure of is how do I get the line out before the cast,especially when I’m fishing stillwaters, or want to fish cross current on a river. Thanks Randy Kadish

Response:

I’ve been reading a lot about fly fishing; so I’m ready to hit the water. But what I’m still not sure of is how do I get the line out before the cast,especially when I’m fishing stillwaters, or want to fish cross current on a river.

Start with 10-12 ft. of line beyond the tip-top.  You can roll-cast that to aerialize it, then add about 5 ft. per false cast, stripping more off the reel with your line hand on each back cast. NB beginners usually find it much easier to learn on running rather than still water, because you need the line straight(ish) for the pickup for the next cast, and the current straightens it for you. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

Response:

NB beginners usually find it much easier to learn on running rather than still water, because you need the line straight(ish) for the pickup for the next cast, and the current straightens it for you.

I disagree. With the current going, it was hellish for me trying to keep the line worked, the cast out of the trees, the fly on the leader, the line that had been stripped our of the current, and staying upright all at the same time, and I was on a slow, large creek. So, I’d say that you should try to find a farm pond before you venture to the river. Bryce Carron Rockford, Tn

Response:

Question:

I purchased a pair of GoreTex waders a couple years ago from LL Bean. The price was much more reasonable than some, and the Bean service is excellent. I haven’t exposed them to a great degree of abuse, but the material appears quite durable. They are well made, double thickness at the knees. The suspenders are adequate, but could be sturdier. John Nesselrode Shawnee, KS

Response:

I bought a pair of the Clearwater waders.  I fished in the early season (read cold) here in Minnesota and found that they erformed very well with fleece pants underneath.  They are truly awsome on a 80 degree day with 80% humidity.  However, after around 65 days on the water the seam tape on both feet started to come off.  Although they never leaked, I took them to my Orvis dealer as I was going to Montana and didn’t want them to start leaking.  I walked out with a new pair for free, now that’s service.   Anyway, the new pair has been fine so far.  I think I am harder on my gear than most.  I fish 3-4 times a week on small streams and am often crashing through brush in the dark with no flashlight. Long Live Hay Creek MikeH

Response:

They’re great!!!

Response:

I remember seeing a thread about Gore-Tex waders a while back. Would anyone be willing to put forth their $.02 again, for I’m interested in these waders. Thanks, — Don Pisinski C.C.S. Digital Equipment Corporation (When replying remove the "x" from the e-mail address) My opinions are not reflective of the opinions of my employer, my  cat, dog, or goldfish.

Response:

Don, I finally broke down and got some goretex waders but not before an outfitter/shop did me a huge favor.  They let me try out the Clearwater and Bulletproof waders by Orvis and I was stoked.  Then they ruined me by letting me try out the Simms Guide models.  The Simms’s were the most comfortable and the quietest in my experience (fishing them each for a day in warm temps and cold water) but at $350.00, I balked.  My wife, in a rare display of toy-encouragement, thought that since I believed they were the ones to get and I didn’t come out of them all stinky and wet, said go ahead.  I can’t comment on their long term wear and tear, others will though, but I think it was a good decision for me even though I had to use money from the "Bamboo savings". Try them out if you can and I must say that the Clearwaters color is the most pleasant if only because EVERY outdoors-wear maker uses sage or light green/olives in all their clothes.(Fashion tip courtesy the beautiful Stephanie). Good Luck, Bob

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I remember seeing a thread about Gore-Tex waders a while back. Would anyone be willing to put forth their $.02 again, for I’m interested in these waders. Thanks, — Don Pisinski C.C.S. Digital Equipment Corporation (When replying remove the "x" from the e-mail address) My opinions are not reflective of the opinions of my employer, my  cat, dog, or goldfish.

Hi Don I’ve been guiding and fishing in Simms GoreTex waders for several years now and find they are great. The comfort of being able to fish in light weight breathable waders is one of the nicest things I’ve done for myself in years. The downside of any of these waders is minute pin holes that wild roses, nettles, thistles, etc can cause in the membrane of the waders. I just accept this will happen and patch the waders when needed. It’ real simple to do and a minor inconvienience when compared to the comfort. Take care & … — Tight Lines ….. Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Catalog,Tips & Tricks, Fishing Reports, & NeverSink at: http://www.btsflyfishing.com

Response:

I remember seeing a thread about Gore-Tex waders a while back. Would anyone be willing to put forth their $.02 again, for I’m interested in these waders. Thanks,

Don, I recently bought a pair of Orvis 3mm neoprenes to fish the cold waters of Labrador.  When I got there, all the guides were wearing Orvis’ Gore-tex $300 + waders.  This was their 2nd or 3rd year with them, and they were wearing like stainless steel.  The guides were in them from 8 in the morning til 6 every day.  They said that the neoprenes they used to wear wore out too quickly.  They swore by the Gore-tex. Upon my return, I went to my Orvis dealer and jokingly told him that I had purchased the wrong waders — I should have bought the Gore-tex.  Long story short — he took back the 3mm neoprenes and I paid the difference (<$100) for the Gore-tex.  Now, *that’s* what I call a guarantee!!  BTW, the Gore-tex are famulous in cold water or warm air. Dave L.

Response:

Question:

Which do you prefer, monofilament or braided leaders, and under what conditions?  What do you like about it? The reason I’m asking this question is that I’ve been going back and forth for years on it and I can’t seem to make up my mind. I’m new to this group and I apologize if this has already been beat to death…

Response:

: Which do you prefer, monofilament or braided leaders, and under : what conditions?  What do you like about it? Braided leaders are great for a lot of situations in fishing. The only problems with them are that there is a little of bit of built in stretch. The other is that the flyfisher can’t easily design and build a leader out of that stuff like he can with mono. I do use braided sinking leaders a lot, but I prefer mono for all my floating leaders because I like to tie my own the way I like them. Jon Porter

Response:

I’m a dry fly  nut. I dont like the way a braided leader snakes on the water. It turns a fly over very nicely, but I feel you dont get  near as long of a drag free float as you do with a knotted leader of george Harvey’s or similar design.         If you nymph alot, I think they’re fine. It sure is easy to use, but for the most part, I don’t care much for braided leaders. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Which do you prefer, monofilament or braided leaders, and under what conditions?  What do you like about it? The reason I’m asking this question is that I’ve been going back and forth for years on it and I can’t seem to make up my mind. I’m new to this group and I apologize if this has already been beat to death…

Response:

I meant to say, I do not like the way that a braided leader does NOT snake on the water,   oops : – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I’m a dry fly  nut. I dont like the way a braided leader snakes on the water. It turns a fly over very nicely, but I feel you dont get  near as long of a drag free float as you do with a knotted leader of george Harvey’s or similar design.    If you nymph alot, I think they’re fine. It sure is easy to use, but for the most part, I don’t care much for braided leaders. Which do you prefer, monofilament or braided leaders, and under what conditions?  What do you like about it? The reason I’m asking this question is that I’ve been going back and forth for years on it and I can’t seem to make up my mind. I’m new to this group and I apologize if this has already been beat to death…

Response:

Which do you prefer, monofilament or braided leaders, and under what conditions?  What do you like about it? The reason I’m asking this question is that I’ve been going back and forth for years on it and I can’t seem to make up my mind. I’m new to this group and I apologize if this has already been beat to death…

Braided leaders died in Nor Cal about 5 years ago. Fly fisherman here buy knotless mono tapered leaders. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA

Response:

Dan Garcia pretty much hit the nail on the head with braided leaders. I’m not a leader fiddler beyond the tippet size and length. I use braided leaders in two lengths for all of my dry fly fishing. It has worked from the Deschutes to Silver Creek for me. Braided leaders aren’t that great for deep nymphing, the line is much bigger in diameter than comparible mono. The one situation I use the braided leader is chironomid fishing on lakes. I hate the way strike indicators get in the way when landing a fish. So I tie on a beadhead chironomid on a 14+ foot leader and put a liberal amount of floatant on the first two feet of the braided butt section. The floating section is my strike indicator. For nymphing, I like to use hinged leaders, and I like to roll my own for that. –DBLHAUL–

Response:

(Eric Mintz) writes: Which do you prefer, monofilament or braided leaders, and under what conditions?  What do you like about it? The reason I’m asking this question is that I’ve been going back and forth for years on it and I can’t seem to make up my mind.

There are advantages and disadvantages to both types of leaders. Braided leaders cast much better and more accurately than mono leaders due to the suppleness of the braid.  When using "normal leaders" as the loop gets to the  leader the loop opens up (sometimes a lot) because the leader is stiffer than the fly line.  Braided butt leaders don’t open up because they transfer the energy of the cast much more effectively due to their suppleness, and they allow better precision on "one shot" casts (such as those from a drift boat as you’re drifting downriver).  Because of their improved transfer of energy they allow you to cast longer leaders more easily.  12 foot leaders are a snap to cast with this type of leader. They also allow better drifts on the water because of this suppleness.  If you are fishing 6X & 7X tippets with a braided butt leader you will land more fish because the braid stretches quite a bit more than regular monofilament and is more forgiving of mistakes and sudden shock.  The braided section will last for years and all you have to do is replace the tips as you wear them out.  You can tie up your own tips to save money if you like.  The tip sections on the Orvis braided leaders taper within the first foot to the final tippet size.  You can add a straight 4 ft. section of 3X or 4X, but need to step it down to go to 5X or smaller if you tie up your own tip sections.  The loop to loop connections in the braid are clean and easy to use connections. But all is not rosy in paradise, and as is typical with flyfishing, you get something, you give something up.  All leaders will absorb enough water to sink into the surface film within about 10 minutes if not treated with fly floatant.  When they do, it not only makes mending the leader impossible, it causes leaders to spray water on the cast. The braided leaders do this is spades because all the little spaces between the braid will capture and hold water if not treated.  If you rub some paste floatant into it before you start fishing, no problem.  If you don’t, big problems.  Orvis now has some "floating" braided leaders that are impregnated with a substance that cures this problem but it is only available in 9 ft. lengths.  The braided section of the leader (the Orvis braided butt leaders have 4 ft. of tip section and the rest is a tapered braided butt) is not clear as mono is and may not be as subtle.  I believe the added suppleness and the improved drifts I get more than compensate for this myself, but there is a definite difference and you must be more careful about "lining" fish.  The biggest disadvantage with braided leaders is that you have fewer adjustment options on the stream.  They come in 7 1/2ft., 9ft., 12ft., and now 16 ft. lengths which will satisfy the requirements of most people, but if you like to fiddle with your leader design by changing the butt and the tippet design, you are out of luck.  You can easily make the tip section an additional foot longer or so, but that’s about it.  You can’t adjust the length of the butt section because you’d have to cut and splice the braid to do so. I would say that the braided leader offers a lot of advantages for most people, but if you like to tailor your leader to a specific purpose at a specific time, use the mono and become very good at tying knots.  I personally used the braided leaders for a number of years but have become one of those "leader fiddlers" and have gone back to mono because of the ability to cut off and/or add material at a moments notice which I probably do entirely too often, but I enjoy it so I do.                                 Hope this helps,                                       Dan Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

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Question:

Has anyone tried these photochromic, ophthalmic, polarized sunglasses? If so, are they worth the price? What’s the best color for all around use? Which are the most durable frames? Thanks in advance. Joel

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Has anyone tried these photochromic, ophthalmic, polarized sunglasses? If so, are they worth the price? What’s the best color for all around use? Which are the most durable frames? Thanks in advance.

Joel — I just had a chance to take a look at a pair of metal flex-frame/ gray photochromic prescription Marquesas. The flex-frame seemed very nice.  It was flexible in all sorts of directions which should minimise the effects of inadvertent abuse associated with fly fishing.  Orvis also did a very good job grinding and mounting the lenses. Because of the glass lenses, the outfit was a bit heavy. Everything looked nice until I did a polarizer test.  At cross-polarization, the lenses showed considerable transmission of blue light.  I estimated polarization between 50-75%.  In other words, glare, albeit reduced in intensity, will be still visible in blue. That, in my view, is inadequate in a pair of ~$200 fishing glasses where polarization should be in the 95% range across the spectrum. Hope this helps. Best, -Ande Rychter

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I have several pair of the Marquesas, here are my recommendations: 1)  Yes, they are an excellent pair of sunglasses with glass lenses that are resistant to scratches (up to a point!) 2)  Get the plastic frame models, not the metal frames, especially if you fish a lot in saltwater. (The metal screws rust, not the frame! Orvis will replace with plastic frame, by the way.) 3)  Best color lenses for saltwater and general fishing: brown or amber 4)  Best color for clear freshwater on sunny day: grey 5)  They are very easy to adapt to large heads like mine (no pun intended!) 6)  The cases that come with them are a piece of shit! Get a hard lense case from a backpacking supplier that will really protect the glasses.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Rychter) writes: Has anyone tried these photochromic, ophthalmic, polarized sunglasses? If so, are they worth the price? What’s the best color for all around use? Which are the most durable frames? Thanks in advance. Joel — I just had a chance to take a look at a pair of metal flex-frame/ gray photochromic prescription Marquesas. The flex-frame seemed very nice.  It was flexible in all sorts of directions which should minimise the effects of inadvertent abuse associated with fly fishing.  Orvis also did a very good job grinding and mounting the lenses. Because of the glass lenses, the outfit was a bit heavy. Everything looked nice until I did a polarizer test.  At

cross-polarization, the lenses showed considerable transmission of blue light.  I estimated polarization between 50-75%.  In other words, glare, albeit reduced in intensity, will be still visible in blue. That, in my view, is inadequate in a pair of ~$200 fishing glasses where polarization should be in the 95% range across the spectrum.

What method did you use to make your assessment? These are real interesting results as laboratory tests on these glasses came out at 99% effective polarization.  The grey lens also has the most even transmision of colors throughout the visible spectrum varying from as low as 15% to as high as 25% light transmission from light wave lengths of 400 nanometers through 950 nanometers (upper edge of visible light is 760nm). Below 400 nm light transmission was under 4% and stopped entirely at 350nm.   Although the grey lens gives the most even transmission of colors of any lens (truest colors), it does not give the greatest clarity or depth perception because it does not reduce significantly blue light (closest to high energy UV [280-380nm]).  The human eye sees best in the middle range of light (yellow) and least clearly near the outer edges of the visible spectum (blue and red).  The blue light spectrum (380nm – 480nm) focuses on the front of the retina and tends to make things blurry, reducing contrast and depth perception.  The crystalline lens of the eye absorbs blue light and  over-exposure of blue light can cause permanent damage to it.  Wears them out. The yellow lens absorbs all light up to 470nm (upper end of blue light spectrum) and transmits 60%to 94% of all light from wavelengths of 500nm into the infrared (760nm-1mm).  Since they do not readilly block IR light they have to be specially treated to absorb this "hot" part of the spectrum.  Yellow causes color distortion – for instance the blue sky may look green.  This is arguably the highest contrast lens. The brown lens will transmit  from as little as 5% to as much as 10% of the blue light spectrum and completely blocks the UV light below 380nm. As it reaches 450nm it steadily increases to ~40% at the upper end of the visible spectrum of light.  It also does not significantly distort colors – tends to shade shift as opposed to color shift.  This lens provides a good combination of true colors (or close to true) and increased contrast. This is my personal choice for fishing glasses. Warm spectrum lenses – yellow, amber, brown,etc. –  also help preserve a chemical in the human eye known as rodopsin (sp?) that helps with night vision.  Fish it to the limit!!! *PLEASE NOTE*  The *regular* Marquessa glasses are $119 for the nylon or the metal frame, and $126 for the flex frame.   The *prescription* glasses are $186 to $195 for single prescription and $200 to $215 for bi-focal depending on the frame.                                                         Thanks,                                                           Dan Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

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Everything looked nice until I did a polarizer test.  At cross-polarization, the lenses showed considerable transmission of blue light.  I estimated polarization between 50-75%.  In other words, glare, albeit reduced in intensity, will be still visible in blue. That, in my view, is inadequate in a pair of ~$200 fishing glasses where polarization should be in the 95% range across the spectrum. What method did you use to make your assessment?

{A detailed description of transmission properities of Orvis Marquesas  deleted.} Dan — Thanks for the description of the excellent transmission properties of the Marquesas line.  Unfortunately spectral transmission and polarization are different things.   In testing these specific Marquesas, I estimated how much I could see when I cross-polarized the light passing through the glasses. Cross-polarizing lenses is equivalent to looking at the glare reflected from the water surface and is a good indication of how well a pair of polarized glasses will do in a fishing situation. On a bright day I could clearly see everything (albeit in deep blue), hence my ball park estimate of 50-75% polarization.  That’s less than impressive. For comparison, I ran the same test on a pair of Action Optics glasses. The glasses in question were the Silver Creek Brown in non-prescription. At cross-polarization, I virtually could see nothing.  This indicated to me that the glasses were very well polarized, probably in the high 90%, and would practically cut off all polarized glare reflecting from the water surface. In both tests I used a 60 mm Hasselblad polarizing filter.  These filters are very nearly 100% polarized. Best, -Ande Rychter

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Although the grey lens gives the most even transmission of colors of any lens (truest colors), it does not give the greatest clarity or depth perception because it does not reduce significantly blue light (closest to high energy UV [280-380nm]).  

snip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The yellow lens absorbs all light up to 470nm (upper end of blue light spectrum) and transmits 60%to 94% of all light from wavelengths of 500nm into the infrared (760nm-1mm). snip This is arguably the highest contrast lens. The brown lens will transmit  from as little as 5% to as much as 10% of the blue light spectrum and completely blocks the UV light below 380nm. snip This lens provides a good combination of true colors (or close to true) and increased contrast. This is my personal choice for fishing glasses. Warm spectrum lenses – yellow, amber, brown,etc. –  also help preserve a chemical in the human eye known as rodopsin (sp?) that helps with night vision.  Fish it to the limit!!!

My latest Orvis catalog shows that these glasses come only in gray, brown or copper lenses.  What would be the best lenses for low light conditions?  I am not concerned about any color-shifting but I wish to retain as much of the light as possible and reduce glare. Thanks. — Hugh L. Scott                    Albuquerque, NM

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Question:

Sorry, got always an error message from the server, thats why I tried to send it several times!                          Thomas

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: <snip  I had a 7′ 3 wgt. T&T Paralite that : was the most beautiful rod I ever owned…. But it was useless… You : couldn’t shoot a #14 humpy with it… I couldn’t disagree more.  The paralite (my favorite rod) has a different action than most are used to, but it is perfectly capable of handling any sized dry (for trout, that is) and quite a few wieghted nymphs.  I use it often, even in slightly windy conditions.  It won’t, however, deliver larger flies into a stiff breeze- but then again, that’s not really what it was designed for.  And you’re absolutely correct about the beauty of the rod… best regards, Hans — "The worst monotonous drone coming from a lectern or the most eye-splitting textbook written in turgid English is nothing in comparison to the psychological Sahara that starts right in your bedroom and spurns the horizon."         -Joseph Brodsky, from "In praise of Boredom"          delivered as a commencement address at Dartmouth College. Hans T.H. Beernink, Department of Biochemistry, University of Vermont

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am interested in purchasing a new rod for fishing very tight, small, brushy streams with obstructions on sides and overhead.  I already own 3 rods ranging from 8′-9′ but these are all too long and heavy. I would like to buy a rod between a 2 and 4 weight in a 6-1/2′ to 7-1/2′ length.  After having broken the tip twice on my Sage LL rod, a definite must for this rod is a lifetime warranty or 25 year warranty that Orvis offers. I have looked at the Reddington 4wt 7-1/2′ which has a lifetime warranty but I know 20 years from now Orvis will still be here and they may not.  After reviewing all of the Orvis rods in these sizes it appears that the HLS One Ounce which is a 4wt. 7′ one ounce rod would be best although I am not sure I will like the cork-and-ring reel seat. Has anyone had any experience with the HLS One Ounce?  Or should I consider the Orvis Superfine 2wt. 6′6" One Ounce, 3wt 7′6" Tippet, or the 4wt 7′6" Brook Trout?  Any other rod lines I should look at that have a 25 year or more warranty?  Will I create much more water disturbance by going from a 2-3 weight line to a 4 weight where I will be approaching fish that are very wary?  Is there much difference in throwing a 3wt compared to a 4wt line into the wind on under 20-30′ casts? Thanks for your help in making the best decision possible.

I wouldn’t be afraid of the cork-and-ring reel seat, I have one on my Patridge rod and I have never had problems with it, it’s simpl= y more lightweigth.  To the Orvis rods: Personally i wouldn’t consider the 2weight, the rod is to swippy and has no backbone to cast a weighted nymph or=  cast in windy conds. The 3weight made from HLS graphite is nearly as good as the SAGE LL rod. Anyway: you don’t really feel a diffe= rence between a #3 and a #4 rod, except that the 3weight cast a little bit worse with more wind resistant or heavier flies or in win= dy conditions. I use a short 5weight (!) for nearly all my fishing and I don’t have the feeling to spook trout by serving a 5weight = line more than with the 3weight. The difference is that with that rod it is possible to cast even a very heavy weighted stonefly nym= ph on a heavy leader with lots of split shot without trouble, in contrast to a 3weight. You don’t have to worry about water disturba= nce, if you do, learn to serve the fly better, as I am trying (it works! I learned to serve a fly with a 5weight with nearly as litt= le disturbance as with a #3, it was worth it). Only in very shallow (about 1ft) and very slow and clear water I change to the 3weigh= t, where you don’t need heavy weigthed flys or leaders and the flies are tiny. Anyway: I don’t know how you wade, but most of the flyfishers I spoke to and which were worried about spooking a trout with a #5 lin= e spook the trout before they start to fish (with their 2 or 3weight rod) by incareful wading (so there was no problem to spook the = trout with a heavier line, they spooked them already! Most of these guys make more waterhiking and trout-spooking than flyfishing in= stead standing at one pool and fishing it carefully.). I don’t say, that you do it that way, but cosider the disadvantages of a too = light rod. Something can be evened out by a different (more careful) presentation and approach to a fish! A last point to consider: You can fight a fish faster with a rod with more backbone, which means that you increase the survival rate=  of a released trout (Don’t go under a 3weight! With kindest regards: The Trout). Hope that helps                     tight lines                                Thomas

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I am going to offer a dissenting opinion to most of the feedback you will likely get on your question.  I would not hit a dead dog in the butt with anything lighter that a 4 wgt. for small, tight stream work.  I believe a 5 wgt to be even better.  I have seen very few light (less than 4 wgt….) rods that are capable of punching a fly through brush and under a  hemlock bough that is only 18" off the water.  I had a 7′ 3 wgt. T&T Paralite that was the most beautiful rod I ever owned…. But it was useless… You couldn’t shoot a #14 humpy with it… I fish an Orvis Small Stream Special (7′ 5wgt) for this work… But I have also used the Orvis Rocky Mtn. Flea (6 1/2′ #4) and it is OK.  I like the 5 wgt better.  Eithr of these would be a good choice in my view…    

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I am interested in purchasing a new rod for fishing very tight, small, brushy streams with obstructions on sides and overhead.  I already own 3 rods ranging from 8′-9′ but these are all too long and heavy. I would like to buy a rod between a 2 and 4 weight in a 6-1/2′ to 7-1/2′ length.  After having broken the tip twice on my Sage LL rod, a definite must for this rod is a lifetime warranty or 25 year warranty that Orvis offers. I have looked at the Reddington 4wt 7-1/2′ which has a lifetime warranty but I know 20 years from now Orvis will still be here and they may not.  After reviewing all of the Orvis rods in these sizes it appears that the HLS One Ounce which is a 4wt. 7′ one ounce rod would be best although I am not sure I will like the cork-and-ring reel seat. Has anyone had any experience with the HLS One Ounce?  Or should I consider the Orvis Superfine 2wt. 6′6" One Ounce, 3wt 7′6" Tippet, or the 4wt 7′6" Brook Trout?  Any other rod lines I should look at that have a 25 year or more warranty?  Will I create much more water disturbance by going from a 2-3 weight line to a 4 weight where I will be approaching fish that are very wary?  Is there much difference in throwing a 3wt compared to a 4wt line into the wind on under 20-30′ casts? Thanks for your help in making the best decision possible.

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