Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …  snip … …oh, and a slight nit to pick – there is not, or rather, should not be, an apostrophe in any river name. Why not? Because to do so indicates it is owned by the person.  An oft-used example, and an easy way to remember, is Clarks River, named after William Clark – it isn’t his, and never was – IOW, it isn’t, nor was it ever, "Clark’s River."  

I think the possessive represents who owns the discovery, not who actually owns the river.  We have a bird out here called the Clark’s Nutcracker.  It was named by Clark. Besides, if you remove the apostrophe and keep the s it becomes a plural, not at all what was intended. Chas

Response:

noted diver F Reid notes: out here got it bass ackwards.  The hatches happen when the stinking sun is high and bright!

Come on up to the Tulpehocken when it rains, it is close to the only time I fish the place. I would note that cloudy(not rainy) days are by far the best on Penns for just the reasons Willi observed.                    just wanted to post                    into a thread whose                    title included Waynes Crabs,                    Tom

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …  snip … …oh, and a slight nit to pick – there is not, or rather, should not be, an apostrophe in any river name. Why not? Because to do so indicates it is owned by the person.  An oft-used example, and an easy way to remember, is Clarks River, named after William Clark – it isn’t his, and never was – IOW, it isn’t, nor was it ever, "Clark’s River."

BUZZ! Apostrophes are used to denote possession, literal or figurative.  Thus, Deere’s tractors are those designed and or built by a company named after and or founded by one John Deere.  Presumably (I know little of the history of this company or its products) John Deere himself once owned the entire company or at least a controlling interest.  At that time it would have been natural to presume that all the tractors built by the company "belonged" to Mr. Deere in some reasonable literal sense.  After his demise (or other divestiture in the company) none of the tractors would have belonged to him literally but still did so in a figurative sense.  It seems unnatural to those of us familiar with said products to refer to them as Deere’s tractors because common usage dictates that they be referred to as "John Deere" tractors, but there are many other products who’s names do or at least could rely on the possessive apostrophe.  Uncle Ben’s rice comes immediately to mind. Now, I don’t know whether the apostrophe is actually used on this product (instant rice is an abomination……it is not allowed in my pantry), but I suspect that no one would object to its use in this context……whether or not there ever actually WAS an uncle Ben to whom it may or may not have belonged.  There are many other examples of the ambiguity of ownership.  Beethoven may once have owned a fifth or even several, but the odds are that he drank the several (thus making ownership moot while doing nothing to resolve the question of apostrophe’s) and, given copyright conventions (or to put it more bluntly, the lack thereof) of his day, the other one pretty much ceased to belong to him the day it was first aired in public.   And what are we to make of the apostrophe’s use?  What exactly, does it own? Wolfgang

Response:

     …  snip …    …oh, and a slight nit to pick – there is not, or rather, should not  be, an apostrophe in any river name.    Why not?    Because to do so indicates it is owned by the person.  An oft-used  example, and an easy way to remember, is Clarks River, named after  William Clark – it isn’t his, and never was – IOW, it isn’t, nor was it  ever, "Clark’s River."       I think the possessive represents who owns the discovery, not who   actually owns the river.  We have a bird out here called the Clark’s   Nutcracker.  It was named by Clark.     Besides, if you remove the apostrophe and keep the s it becomes a   plural, not at all what was intended. I agree with you Chas. From what I understand, not using an apostrophe was just a convention that was adopted by topographers. I also think that it’s one of those rules that is "violated" so much that either usage is now correct. Willi

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …  snip … …oh, and a slight nit to pick – there is not, or rather, should not be, an apostrophe in any river name. Why not? Because to do so indicates it is owned by the person.  An oft-used example, and an easy way to remember, is Clarks River, named after William Clark – it isn’t his, and never was – IOW, it isn’t, nor was it ever, "Clark’s River."   I think the possessive represents who owns the discovery, not who actually owns the river.  

Er, no.  For example, if one actually owns the body of water (such as a pond or lake), then it would be "Clark’s Pond," as opposed to one simply named after someone. We have a bird out here called the Clark’s Nutcracker.  It was named by Clark.

Are you sure?  Maybe it named for Clark’s Nutcracker… Besides, if you remove the apostrophe and keep the s it becomes a plural, not at all what was intended. Chas

You’re actually a pair of Cha? TC, R

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …  snip … …oh, and a slight nit to pick – there is not, or rather, should not be, an apostrophe in any river name. Why not? Because to do so indicates it is owned by the person.  An oft-used example, and an easy way to remember, is Clarks River, named after William Clark – it isn’t his, and never was – IOW, it isn’t, nor was it ever, "Clark’s River." BUZZ! Apostrophes are used to denote possession, literal or figurative.  Thus, Deere’s tractors are those designed and or built by a company named after and or founded by one John Deere.  Presumably (I know little of the history of this company or its products) John Deere himself once owned the entire company or at least a controlling interest.  At that time it would have been natural to presume that all the tractors built by the company "belonged" to Mr. Deere in some reasonable literal sense.  After his demise (or other divestiture in the company) none of the tractors would have belonged to him literally but still did so in a figurative sense.  It seems unnatural to those of us familiar with said products to refer to them as Deere’s tractors because common usage dictates that they be referred to as "John Deere" tractors, but there are many other products who’s names do or at least could rely on the possessive apostrophe.  Uncle Ben’s rice comes immediately to mind. Now, I don’t know whether the apostrophe is actually used on this product (instant rice is an abomination……it is not allowed in my pantry), but I suspect that no one would object to its use in this context……whether or not there ever actually WAS an uncle Ben to whom it may or may not have belonged.  There are many other examples of the ambiguity of ownership.  Beethoven may once have owned a fifth or even several, but the odds are that he drank the several (thus making ownership moot while doing nothing to resolve the question of apostrophe’s) and, given copyright conventions (or to put it more bluntly, the lack thereof) of his day, the other one pretty much ceased to belong to him the day it was first aired in public.   And what are we to make of the apostrophe’s use?  What exactly, does it own? Wolfgang

BZZT! Both John Deere and Uncle Ben’s are trade names, and so, they are meaningless as to the grammar, spelling, etc. – you could have "Clark’s Klarcs Barz," whose slogan is "Made with Uncle Ben’z Arrowz, so eat ‘em on Jonn Deare’s tractors…" TC, R

Response:

   Trout are much more likely to feed on the surface during cloudy weather.        Willi             Yah know Willi, I grew up with that.  From California and Korea to the UK     and Germany.  Fishing ain’t worth a damn unless its cloudy with a bit of     wind to break up the surface.  Came out the the right coast, didn’t go     fishing unless the day was cloudy so I could hit a hatch.  Guess what, these     suckers out here got it bass ackwards.  The hatches happen when the stinking     sun is high and bright!  Jeez-O-Pete!  I was here a year before I found a     decent hatch.  Can’t they do anything right out here? There was an argument about this earlier on ROFF but I believe that some insects hatch out more prolifically during inclement weather. BWO’s fit into this catagory. However, agree with that or not, trout don’t like bright direct sunlight. Especially in low clear water, trout are reluctant to come out and establish feeding  stations to surface feed on a bright sunny day. The other day was a good example. I was out early and the fish were avidly feeding on emerging Trico duns. Then the sun became direct on the water and the feeding stopped even though the spinner fall that happened later resulted in more bugs on the water than when the duns were hatching and they were easier pickings because they are dead. Willi Willi

Response:

in jan 2001, wally and i resorted to traveling up to tennessee to fish the watauga tailwater.  all the streams in the mountains of nc were frozen over and unfishable – really.  the only time we saw bugs coming off (wally says they were bwo) was when the sun shone for a while.  the fish would get active and we’d catch the hell out of them.  then the sun would go behind the clouds and the hatch would stop, along with the catch. jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   Trout are much more likely to feed on the surface during cloudy weather.   Willi   Yah know Willi, I grew up with that.  From California and Korea to the UK   and Germany.  Fishing ain’t worth a damn unless its cloudy with a bit of   wind to break up the surface.  Came out the the right coast, didn’t go   fishing unless the day was cloudy so I could hit a hatch.  Guess what, these   suckers out here got it bass ackwards.  The hatches happen when the stinking   sun is high and bright!  Jeez-O-Pete!  I was here a year before I found a   decent hatch.  Can’t they do anything right out here? There was an argument about this earlier on ROFF but I believe that some insects hatch out more prolifically during inclement weather. BWO’s fit into this catagory. However, agree with that or not, trout don’t like bright direct sunlight. Especially in low clear water, trout are reluctant to come out and establish feeding  stations to surface feed on a bright sunny day. The other day was a good example. I was out early and the fish were avidly feeding on emerging Trico duns. Then the sun became direct on the water and the feeding stopped even though the spinner fall that happened later resulted in more bugs on the water than when the duns were hatching and they were easier pickings because they are dead. Willi Willi

Response:

yeah, yeah…but i was talking about fork flies…<g. jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …  snip … …oh, and a slight nit to pick – there is not, or rather, should not be, an apostrophe in any river name. Why not? Because to do so indicates it is owned by the person.  An oft-used example, and an easy way to remember, is Clarks River, named after William Clark – it isn’t his, and never was – IOW, it isn’t, nor was it ever, "Clark’s River." BUZZ! Apostrophes are used to denote possession, literal or figurative.  Thus, Deere’s tractors are those designed and or built by a company named after and or founded by one John Deere.  Presumably (I know little of the history of this company or its products) John Deere himself once owned the entire company or at least a controlling interest.  At that time it would have been natural to presume that all the tractors built by the company "belonged" to Mr. Deere in some reasonable literal sense.  After his demise (or other divestiture in the company) none of the tractors would have belonged to him literally but still did so in a figurative sense.  It seems unnatural to those of us familiar with said products to refer to them as Deere’s tractors because common usage dictates that they be referred to as "John Deere" tractors, but there are many other products who’s names do or at least could rely on the possessive apostrophe.  Uncle Ben’s rice comes immediately to mind. Now, I don’t know whether the apostrophe is actually used on this product (instant rice is an abomination……it is not allowed in my pantry), but I suspect that no one would object to its use in this context……whether or not there ever actually WAS an uncle Ben to whom it may or may not have belonged.  There are many other examples of the ambiguity of ownership.  Beethoven may once have owned a fifth or even several, but the odds are that he drank the several (thus making ownership moot while doing nothing to resolve the question of apostrophe’s) and, given copyright conventions (or to put it more bluntly, the lack thereof) of his day, the other one pretty much ceased to belong to him the day it was first aired in public.   And what are we to make of the apostrophe’s use?  What exactly, does it own? Wolfgang

Response:

Trout are much more likely to feed on the surface during cloudy weather. Willi

Yah know Willi, I grew up with that.  From California and Korea to the UK and Germany.  Fishing ain’t worth a damn unless its cloudy with a bit of wind to break up the surface.  Came out the the right coast, didn’t go fishing unless the day was cloudy so I could hit a hatch.  Guess what, these suckers out here got it bass ackwards.  The hatches happen when the stinking sun is high and bright!  Jeez-O-Pete!  I was here a year before I found a decent hatch.  Can’t they do anything right out here? — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply

Response:

…  snip … …oh, and a slight nit to pick – there is not, or rather, should not be, an apostrophe in any river name.

Why not? Chas

Response:

you’re one evil geezer…<g jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jeff Miller writes: …i’m in idaho pre-trip jitter mode. just ordered a sampler platter of flies from harry mason he selected as good for hf… also, my pal waldo sent me a huge selection on approval Well, I hope there will be some dry fly action, Jeffy.  It’s beginning to look like Fortenberry was right.  The long term forcast calls for "snow showers" in that part of Idaho during the clave.  Damn, Fortenberry, FORTENBERRY, was right.  Looks like I’m gonna hafta rent the Humvee instead of the Lincoln.  Why didn’t Warren warn us about this?   d;o)

Response:

…  snip … …oh, and a slight nit to pick – there is not, or rather, should not be, an apostrophe in any river name. Why not?

Because to do so indicates it is owned by the person.  An oft-used example, and an easy way to remember, is Clarks River, named after William Clark – it isn’t his, and never was – IOW, it isn’t, nor was it ever, "Clark’s River."   TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Chas

Response:

i will self-flagellate while facing southwest…<g jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …i’m in idaho pre-trip jitter mode. just ordered a sampler platter of flies from harry mason he selected as good for hf… also, my pal waldo sent me a huge selection on approval that he thought might garner a look from an idaho trout… thanks fellers… it’ll be fun fishin the flies you picked, and i can blame your poor selections if i don’t do too well. <g oh…and wayne hart sent me a box of his "crab" flies to test on the carolina redfish this fall.  an interesting creation, and can’t wait to give em a try. thanks wayne… thought i’d give a public "thank you" simply to underscore a bit of the benefits of this place. jeff Ah…from the subject header, I thought your esteemed colleague had been, er, "Mercedes shopping in all the wrong places…"  Weren’t sure why you were thanking him, though… <G…outside the box, doncha know… TC, R …oh, and a slight nit to pick – there is not, or rather, should not be, an apostrophe in any river name.

Response:

…i’m in idaho pre-trip jitter mode. just ordered a sampler platter of flies from harry mason he selected as good for hf… also, my pal waldo sent me a huge selection on approval that he thought might garner a look from an idaho trout… thanks fellers… it’ll be fun fishin the flies you picked, and i can blame your poor selections if i don’t do too well. <g oh…and wayne hart sent me a box of his "crab" flies to test on the carolina redfish this fall.  an interesting creation, and can’t wait to give em a try. thanks wayne… thought i’d give a public "thank you" simply to underscore a bit of the benefits of this place. jeff

Response:

Jeff Miller writes: …i’m in idaho pre-trip jitter mode. just ordered a sampler platter of flies from harry mason he selected as good for hf… also, my pal waldo sent me a huge selection on approval

Well, I hope there will be some dry fly action, Jeffy.  It’s beginning to look like Fortenberry was right.  The long term forcast calls for "snow showers" in that part of Idaho during the clave.  Damn, Fortenberry, FORTENBERRY, was right.  Looks like I’m gonna hafta rent the Humvee instead of the Lincoln.  Why didn’t Warren warn us about this?   d;o)

Response:

Here’s a couple items for the Henry’s Forkers: An updated report has been posted to HF Anglers website: http://www.henrysforkanglers.com The flow is working it’s way down, but it’s still higher than last September so far.  900 cfs in Island Park would be ideal for waders: http://waterdata.usgs.gov/id/nwis/uv/?site_no=13042500&PARAmeter_cd=0… 060 And if anyone wants to send me some flies or a new 3 pc, 9′ 5 weight XP, I’ll try em out on the Fork  The XP would be especially handy. bruce h

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -…i’m in idaho pre-trip jitter mode. just ordered a sampler platter of flies from harry mason he selected as good for hf… also, my pal waldo sent me a huge selection on approval that he thought might garner a look from an idaho trout… thanks fellers… it’ll be fun fishin the flies you picked, and i can blame your poor selections if i don’t do too well. <g oh…and wayne hart sent me a box of his "crab" flies to test on the carolina redfish this fall.  an interesting creation, and can’t wait to give em a try. thanks wayne… thought i’d give a public "thank you" simply to underscore a bit of the benefits of this place. jeff

Ah…from the subject header, I thought your esteemed colleague had been, er, "Mercedes shopping in all the wrong places…"  Weren’t sure why you were thanking him, though… <G…outside the box, doncha know… TC, R …oh, and a slight nit to pick – there is not, or rather, should not be, an apostrophe in any river name.

Response:

…i’m in idaho pre-trip jitter mode. just ordered a sampler platter of flies from harry mason he selected as good for hf… also, my pal waldo sent me a huge selection on approval Well, I hope there will be some dry fly action, Jeffy.  It’s beginning to look like Fortenberry was right.  The long term forcast calls for "snow showers" in that part of Idaho during the clave.  Damn, Fortenberry, FORTENBERRY, was right.  Looks like I’m gonna hafta rent the Humvee instead of the Lincoln.  Why didn’t Warren warn us about this?  

Can you believe that long term forecast!  The Climate Prediction Center shows above average temps and above average precip for that time frame.   http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/predictions/814day/ All in all, it looks like good streamer weather…..

Response:

RockTrout writes: Can you believe that long term forecast!  The Climate Prediction Center shows above average temps and above average precip for that time frame.  

Fortenberry knows that region very, very well.  He spent all of his adult life there — what…. two years?…. so I’m *sure* it’s gonna snow.  I wish Warren had warned us.   d;o)

Response:

    Can you believe that long term forecast!  The Climate Prediction   Center shows above average temps and above average precip for that time   frame.     http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/predictions/814day/     All in all, it looks like good streamer weather….. Long range forecasts like that are wrong as often as they’re right but cloudy days would be great for dry fly fishing for a number of reasons. IMO, BWO hatches are much heavier when there is cloud cover. The Olives will probably be the most prolific hatch while we are at Henrys. Trout are much more likely to feed on the surface during cloudy weather. The trout are less "fussy" during cloudy weather. You don’t need as good of a match. Trout are less spooky and wary and you can usually go with heavier tippet. If it’s cloudy, I’ll be fishing the ranch. Willi

Response:

  …i’m in idaho pre-trip jitter mode.     just ordered a sampler platter of flies from harry mason he selected as   good for hf… I think you’ll be pleased with Harry’s flies. The flies he offers are VERY well tied and many are different from "normal" ties which is especially good, IMO, on hard fished water like Henrys Fork. Willi

Response:

  Here’s a couple items for the Henry’s Forkers:     An updated report has been posted to HF Anglers website:     http://www.henrysforkanglers.com     The flow is working it’s way down, but it’s still higher than last September   so far.  900 cfs in Island Park would be ideal for waders:     http://waterdata.usgs.gov/id/nwis/uv/?site_no=13042500&PARAmeter_cd=0…   060     And if anyone wants to send me some flies or a new 3 pc, 9′ 5 weight XP,   I’ll try em out on the Fork  The XP would be especially handy. You know there are trout rods in other than five weight, you have enough 5 weights. You need to broaden your arsenal. Willi

Response:

What I need is a bunch of stupid trout It’s raining here right now- hoping to hit the Clarks Fork tonight- I understand the river has been something close to phenominal the last few days jh – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   Can you believe that long term forecast!  The Climate Prediction   Center shows above average temps and above average precip for that time   frame.   http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/predictions/814day/   All in all, it looks like good streamer weather….. Long range forecasts like that are wrong as often as they’re right but cloudy days would be great for dry fly fishing for a number of reasons. IMO, BWO hatches are much heavier when there is cloud cover. The Olives will probably be the most prolific hatch while we are at Henrys. Trout are much more likely to feed on the surface during cloudy weather. The trout are less "fussy" during cloudy weather. You don’t need as good of a match. Trout are less spooky and wary and you can usually go with heavier tippet. If it’s cloudy, I’ll be fishing the ranch. Willi

Response:

 I would agree, if the clouds roll in I would think the BWO would be the ticket. The Wind, IMO, is more of a problem than no bugs…. HM – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can you believe that long term forecast!  The Climate Prediction Center shows above average temps and above average precip for that time frame. http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/predictions/814day/ All in all, it looks like good streamer weather….. Long range forecasts like that are wrong as often as they’re right but cloudy days would be great for dry fly fishing for a number of reasons. IMO, BWO hatches are much heavier when there is cloud cover. The Olives will probably be the most prolific hatch while we are at Henrys. Trout are much more likely to feed on the surface during cloudy weather. The trout are less "fussy" during cloudy weather. You don’t need as good of a match. Trout are less spooky and wary and you can usually go with heavier tippet. If it’s cloudy, I’ll be fishing the ranch. Willi

Response:

Question:

I just want to say thanks to all of the participants in the past weeks issues.  Listening to everyones feelings and knowing that I am not alone in my distraction.  I just need to make something!!! So its out to the shop I go to build some blanks for some new turned bowls. I also have to make a material list for the new shop addition!!!  25 X 11 for a dark humidity controled storage area. While I am changing my focus from last week’s event’s, my outrage and desire to see those responsible fry is still very strong. Well I hear some Black Walnut calling. O, I’m going to go out later and do my part to stimulate the economy. Need a new pair of hip waders. Later Tom in Oregon

Response:

Right there with ya Tom, I made sawdust all day yesterday and didn’t miss that TV one little bit. David – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I just want to say thanks to all of the participants in the past weeks issues.  Listening to everyones feelings and knowing that I am not alone in my distraction.  I just need to make something!!! So its out to the shop I go to build some blanks for some new turned bowls. I also have to make a material list for the new shop addition!!!  25 X 11 for a dark humidity controled storage area. While I am changing my focus from last week’s event’s, my outrage and desire to see those responsible fry is still very strong. Well I hear some Black Walnut calling. O, I’m going to go out later and do my part to stimulate the economy. Need a new pair of hip waders. Later Tom in Oregon

Response:

O, I’m going to go out later and do my part to stimulate the economy. Need a new pair of hip waders.

Yep, winter in the Northwest is quickly approaching – btw, maybe you ought to locate the shop in a hill.   — Owen Lowe and his Fly-by-Night Copper Company Offering a shim for the Porter-Cable 557 type 2 <http://www.flybynightcoppercompany.com <http://www.easystreet.com/~onlnlowe/index.html

Response:

One thing that I like about woodworking (or making anything else for that matter) is that it keeps me away from TV, which is a good thing IMHO (too much biased crap on TV nowadays) — replace n with s to reply — Tai Fu NAR# 76089 L1

Response:

Well Owen, I’m in Aloha and there just ain’t no hills on my land. Looking forward to several days on the wilson river though, hoping for some decent fishing. All the while remembering those who are no longer with us. The bowl I finished yesterday was started and dated 9-11-01. I had just dated it when my wife told me what was happening in New York. Tom in Oregon – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – O, I’m going to go out later and do my part to stimulate the economy. Need a new pair of hip waders. Yep, winter in the Northwest is quickly approaching – btw, maybe you ought to locate the shop in a hill.   — Owen Lowe and his Fly-by-Night Copper Company Offering a shim for the Porter-Cable 557 type 2 <http://www.flybynightcoppercompany.com <http://www.easystreet.com/~onlnlowe/index.html

Response:

I agree Tai. Last week end we did not listen to any broadcast TV. Just watched a bunch of movies.  Partly due to to much information and being overwhelmed by it all, but mainly needing some time to reflect and try to sort out our feelings. Tom in Oregon – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – One thing that I like about woodworking (or making anything else for that matter) is that it keeps me away from TV, which is a good thing IMHO (too much biased crap on TV nowadays) — replace n with s to reply — Tai Fu NAR# 76089 L1

Response:

Question:

Hm…..it shows as 10:30 a.m., Tuesday on my server.  Truth to tell, I no longer remember when I actually sent that particular message and reference to any sort of clock would now appear to be of little help.      

We could be talking about different messages. It wouldn’t be the first time I expect. <g — Charlie…

Response:

My server says it came in at 8:43 a.m. on Tuesday; not quite two hours before I wrote the message to which he was responding. I must not see all the messages; what appears on my server to be the message he responded to shows being sent at 11:30 (EDT) on Monday.

Hm…..it shows as 10:30 a.m., Tuesday on my server.  Truth to tell, I no longer remember when I actually sent that particular message and reference to any sort of clock would now appear to be of little help.       Wolfgang who, according to the watch on his left wrist is hitting the send button at exactly 11:02 a.m. CDT on wednesday, 18 april, 2001.

Response:

My server says it came in at 8:43 a.m. on Tuesday; not quite two hours before I wrote the message to which he was responding.

I must not see all the messages; what appears on my server to be the message he responded to shows being sent at 11:30 (EDT) on Monday. — Charlie…

Response:

Moreover, as this latest missive seems to have arrived some two hours before the post to which you were responding, extra credit is being given for prescience.  I concede!        :) According to my server it was 22 hours after, not 2 hours before.

My server says it came in at 8:43 a.m. on Tuesday; not quite two hours before I wrote the message to which he was responding. Not-quite-parrallel universes?

Probably just a parallax error. Wolfgang

Response:

(bizarre exchange snipped) Man, I knew i was in for trouble as soon as I hit that send button. I must have gotten a bad bottle of merlot. With any luck, that post is buried so deep in such an old and uninteresting thread, that very few will see it. As for you others, I know I wrote bad things in bad style. I take responsibility. Bring down your ire! sean

No points will be deducted for style.  Moreover, as this latest missive seems to have arrived some two hours before the post to which you were responding, extra credit is being given for prescience.  I concede!        :) Wolfgang never wrestle with a fatidical

Response:

Moreover, as this latest missive seems to have arrived some two hours before the post to which you were responding, extra credit is being given for prescience.  I concede!        :)

According to my server it was 22 hours after, not 2 hours before. Not-quite-parrallel universes? — Charlie…

Response:

(bizarre exchange snipped) Man, I knew i was in for trouble as soon as I hit that send button. I must have gotten a bad bottle of merlot. With any luck, that post is buried so deep in such an old and uninteresting thread, that very few will see it. As for you others, I know I wrote bad things in bad style. I take responsibility. Bring down your ire! sean

Response:

Never again will I take seriously anyone here who wags their self-righteous finger at me or anyone else about wasting bandwidth about politics, weather, sex, or God for bide FF’ing or any other fucking thing.  The amount of BW pissed down the rat hole chasing Ginks crap all over cyberspace is stunning. You poor SOB’s are eating out of his dirty little paws and it’s rather sad. Harry Mason There is Sale going on,have a look    www.Troutflies.com

Response:

Never again will I take seriously anyone here who wags their self-righteous finger at me or anyone else about wasting bandwidth about politics, weather, sex, or God for bide FF’ing or any other fucking thing. The amount of BW pissed down the rat hole chasing Ginks crap all over cyberspace is stunning. You poor SOB’s are eating out of his dirty little paws and it’s rather sad. Harry Mason There is Sale going on,have a look   www.Troutflies.com

You’re absolutely right on target Harry, I succumbed to breaking a long standing rule I have of not responding to Gherke, no matter how outrageous his postings. Besides, I think Mike Connor is doing an excellent job of that. <g I will forthwith and henceforth sink back into silence. But sometimes it is hard to remain passive in the face of these onslaughts to intelligent discourse, so I can understand why others can’t resist in feeding his egocentric ramblings. Frank (tikalok) Church

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You poor SOB’s are eating out of his dirty little paws and it’s rather sad. Harry Mason It’s indeed sad; but the food is so good! I find myself wakening in the wee hours, sneaking out of bed and slinking downstairs for just one more bite of the dirty little nibblets! I hate them but I NEED them! ravenously yours, sean Good Lord man, have you ANY idea of what you have just done??!!  Do you have even the foggiest inkling of what a dangerous precedent you have just set?  I think NOT!  You have, if we may momentarily stoop the gauche convenience of lapsing into the vernacular, "let the cat out of the poke". You can look at it that way.

Thank you. BUT, should you afford me a little more credit,

Hm, I thought I WAS doing just that. you might be of the opinion I play the Devil’s advocate, mixing shoulds, coulds and hand-fed morsels into a polarized miasma of repulsion and attraction.

I might indeed but, based on the above exchange, it would appear that neither of us would know it if I was.  I like the "polarized miasma" thing though. I may be exposing on this forum

And you certainly wouldn’t be the first. for what it has become ( merely a glorified video game, a text adventure, a room full of Dungeons & Dragons geeks fullfilling their fantasies by living vicariously through the fictive lives they could never achieve in the true world ) only with the objective of raising the odius ante.

Never been very much interested in video games myself, and I’ve never tried text adventures or D&D at all.  Just an educated guess here, but I think most of the people in this group whom I have met thus far aren’t great fans either. Moreover, based on what little time I have spent with them, I don’t think most of them depend to any great extent on vicarious living.  Until someone else steps forward to make a claim, I am content to recognize you as the resident authority on these matters. Perhaps I know that the more surreal and absurdist a mileu appears, the more irrational, and reactionary its members will let themselves -or their ‘net personas- be.

Yes, perhaps you do. Further, I might realize that ROFF is NOT a place where e-concequences do not merge with the "real" world, where everyone is really anonymous, and every man has a 13" dick.

The list of things you might know is growing at an impressive rate.  Sadly though, I am at something of a loss in trying to determine just what the latest addition to that list refers to.  I might, perhaps, guess it has something to do with not being content with the distinction of being a recognized expert on role playing; that you also have a burning desire to be the resident authority on other men’s dicks as well.  If so, I for one, decline to challenge your ascendancy on this matter. Now, what we have, is a fly-fishing version of Doom (the vid game). We can wade through the muck and dredge mowing any threat down like the Columbine library… trolling and seting, one might say. Violent, bloody and quite enjoyable, but not real. However, there is a pretty good chance that someday on the river you’re going to run in to some guy named gg, or wolfgang, or sean, and you’ll press further and find out this same gg wolfgang sean is the same who wrote of you as a coward, or pussy, or loonie, or thief, or hack, or strike indicator user, or whatever on ROFF. And the monkeywrench Devil’s advocate cashes in as some angler floats down the river face-down.

Before today I never had occasion to take seriously any threat of physical violence proffered by anyone on this news group.  Even the rather explicit threats exchanged by a few regulars were probably not taken too seriously by most readers and, as subsequent events proved, their lack of concern was not as irresponsible as one might think.  Alas, for me at least, all that has changed now.  Of course, I can’t be certain of what others may think, but I suspect you may have  limited the number of potential fishing partners you are likely to find here.  Or, to put it more directly, every swingin dick who whines about what goes on in here laps it up like a junky with the three day shakes.  The only thing they need worse than a regular fix of this appalling degradation and squalor is an occasional opportunity to declaim their disgust over the whole wretched mess and their absolute disdain (ever so politely put, of course) for those who participate, Or, if you could afford, just a little bit MORE credit, you might condisder that no one really takes credit for playing Devil’s advocate if he really is playing Devil’s advocate. You can bet that one calling himself D’s A is really likening himself to some allegorical figure like Tar Baby, or Fritz the Cat,

Admirably convoluted…..gotta give you credit for that. in which case this so-called DA thinks he has some sort of lesson to teach.

Yes, don’t we all. Perhaps this DA wants to remind us what Jesus said of speaking (and by inference, typing): what exits the mouth is a reflection of the heart.

And what are we likely to see reflected in the heart of a monkeywrench DA as we float face down in the river? And by reminding us of this on the Holy day of Easter this DA hopes ROFF will see the truth in this… that every flame and squabble degrading the bandwidth of this forum is a testament to the bile and jealousy and pride and fear and self masturbation of every over-inflated ego and every rotten heart that takes part, justified or not.

with your Jesus of Nazareth there. MAYBE, this DA might go so far as to say "Go forth, and get ye upon that river, or lake, or ditch. Take in to thine hands a flexible staff of three cubit’s length whereupon a tether is attached with which ye shall attempt to fool fishes.

The defense might be getting weary of trying to divine what the DA might or might not think, do, or say.  We could just possibly wish he might just get on with it and say what he may have to say…..allegorically speaking, that is. And when enough fishes have been fooled, and enough rivers forged, ye shall ascend to a state of grace and truth which crucifies you unto the world and the world unto you."

? To the challenged, one might translate, "get a life."

Ah!  One may have hoped there might be a sort of pr

Question:

you bringin’ flourocarbon, Dave? Orvis. 3x, 4x, 5x, 6x, 7x.  Wouldn’t leave home without it.

hilarious. for a while i thought flourocarbon was the only way to go there, even for near surface fishing.  now i think it depends upon the conditions, but i’m still trying to figure out *which* conditions warrant using flourocarbon.  i know it’s superb for nymphing the faster water and you can use 4x and 5x no problem. that stuff is just so expensive, i call it an investment in tippet.  i’ll be packing 0x thru 10x nanocarbon and fishing dave’s new midge patterns, so i’m not too worried bruce h ps if you’ve sent me an sj related email – i haven’t been able to get to my email for a week or so.  i’ll reply soon — bare your soul let your spirit burn out along the road to no return – r.e. keen Before you buy.

Response:

Bruiser writes: i’ll be packing 0x thru 10x nanocarbon and fishing dave’s new midge patterns, so i’m not too worried bruce h

*My* new midge patterns!  I thought I was gonna use *your* new midge patterns. <g   Dave LaCourse

Response:

Ditto.

I will get mine out Monday A.M. Ain’t postal service priority one a great service. Big Dale

Response:

In today’s mail… jal

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If I do *not* receive 30 sets of flies from 30 folks, what do I do with the rest of the flies?  If only 20 folks actually participate, would I send out 20 flies each, leaving over 200 flies?  Can we use them for a raffle, or should I just divvy up the extra’s among the fly swap participants?  Sell them on Ebay for my house payment, or what? <g Also, I purchased 30 surprises for the swap members, maybe we could use those for a raffle or something if less than 30 folks show up, as well? Advice from past Swapmeister’s would be appreciated, but will not be remunerated. <g — Padishar Creel "I don’t want to achieve immortality through my work…I want to achieve it through not dying."  – Woody Allen

Response:

Walt, Got the reel from you yesterday. It’s replacing a Cortland Rimfly that I wore out. It seems to be MUCH better quality. The rod Steve made for me also came. To try and say thanks, I’m going to tie up a shitload of flies for him. I know you fish with him frequently.  Steve just posted a number of his favorite flies, so I have a good start. If you think of some other patterns and sizes that are good for the places he fishes, I’d appreciate it. Willi

Response:

Sorry this was supposed to be an email!! Willi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Walt, Got the reel from you yesterday. It’s replacing a Cortland Rimfly that I wore out. It seems to be MUCH better quality. The rod Steve made for me also came. To try and say thanks, I’m going to tie up a shitload of flies for him. I know you fish with him frequently.  Steve just posted a number of his favorite flies, so I have a good start. If you think of some other patterns and sizes that are good for the places he fishes, I’d appreciate it. Willi

Response:

Walt, Got the reel from you yesterday. It’s replacing a Cortland Rimfly that I wore out. It seems to be MUCH better quality. The rod Steve made for me also came. To try and say thanks, I’m going to tie up a shitload of flies for him. I know you fish with him frequently.  Steve just posted a number of his favorite flies, so I have a good start. If you think of some other patterns and sizes that are good for the places he fishes, I’d appreciate it. Willi

Willi, I’m glad you like the reel…. I use mine quite a bit. Yesterday, on the banks of Steve’s new home water, the Watauga River, he mentioned that he had sent you a cane…. if you ask me, he has a heart of gold. The best fly for Steve’s holding place on the Watauga, a big ‘ole granite boulder he likes to perch on, is, well, a round brown fly, possibly size 16. I can best say that it would imitate a…. uhmmm, well a purina trout chow pellet <g Seriously, do you remember those real small emergers you sent me a while back? THOSE WORK GREAT!!!  I have, by my own admission, been reluctant to share those with anyone being the drsob that I am. However, considering that it is the Holiday Season, a time for sharing, I’ll confess that those durn little buggers are terrific! Have fun on the juan….. Walt

Response:

If I do *not* receive 30 sets of flies from 30 folks, what do I do with the rest of the flies?  If only 20 folks actually participate, would I send out 20 flies each, leaving over 200 flies?  Can we use them for a raffle, or should I just divvy up the extra’s among the fly swap participants?  Sell them on Ebay for my house payment, or what? <g Also, I purchased 30 surprises for the swap members, maybe we could use those for a raffle or something if less than 30 folks show up, as well? Advice from past Swapmeister’s would be appreciated, but will not be remunerated. <g — Padishar Creel "I don’t want to achieve immortality through my work…I want to achieve it through not dying."  – Woody Allen

Response:

Pad, You will receive my flies.. I tmay be right at the deadline, but you’ll get em. edwin

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If I do *not* receive 30 sets of flies from 30 folks, what do I do with the rest of the flies?  If only 20 folks actually participate, would I send out 20 flies each, leaving over 200 flies?  Can we use them for a raffle, or should I just divvy up the extra’s among the fly swap participants?  Sell them on Ebay for my house payment, or what? <g Also, I purchased 30 surprises for the swap members, maybe we could use those for a raffle or something if less than 30 folks show up, as well? Advice from past Swapmeister’s would be appreciated, but will not be remunerated. <g — Padishar Creel "I don’t want to achieve immortality through my work…I want to achieve it through not dying."  – Woody Allen

Response:

If I do *not* receive 30 sets of flies from 30 folks, what do I do with the rest of the flies?

Raffle ‘em off. Whomever correctly guesses which roffians weaseled out wins. /daytripper (Got mah suspicions at the ready, already ;^)

Response:

If I do *not* receive 30 sets of flies from 30 folks, what do I do with the rest of the flies?

     I say you keep them. I just got back from shipping mine, sorry I waited until the last minute.

Response:

If I do *not* receive 30 sets of flies from 30 folks, what do I do with the rest of the flies?      I say you keep them. I just got back from shipping mine, sorry I waited until the last minute.

I second that.  It’s a pain sorting and shipping them all out. If you feel guilty you could pack up half for a Clave raffle and keep the rest. Willi

Response:

I agree…this should be one of the benefits for being a swap miester Ed B – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If I do *not* receive 30 sets of flies from 30 folks, what do I do with the rest of the flies?      I say you keep them. I just got back from shipping mine, sorry I waited until the last minute. I second that.  It’s a pain sorting and shipping them all out. If you feel guilty you could pack up half for a Clave raffle and keep the rest. Willi

Response:

: If I do *not* receive 30 sets of flies from 30 folks, what do I do with the : rest of the flies?   Send ‘em to me! For that, I’d gladly put up with being proclaimed the "ROFF moocher of the year" Of course, LaPlac’s already gonna call me that once I meet him on the Juan…you bringin’ flourocarbon, Dave? (No, I didn’t bail out — I never signed up, but would gladly be the beneficiary of y’all’s hard work tying all those flies…) JonCook. — Are you a r.o.f.f. newbie? Then see http://www.cs.nmsu.edu/~jcook/ROFF/

Response:

PC, Ditto, Mine will leave Mon. AM HT – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Same here. Rather tight schedule at the moment, but Saturday evening is set aside for the swap flies. TL MC — "Where fishing is concerned, most anglers are basically manic excessives" http://www.mikeconnor.de Pad, You will receive my flies.. I tmay be right at the deadline, but you’ll get em. edwin If I do *not* receive 30 sets of flies from 30 folks, what do I do with the rest of the flies?  If only 20 folks actually participate, would I send out 20 flies each, leaving over 200 flies?  Can we use them for a raffle, or should I just divvy up the extra’s among the fly swap participants? Sell them on Ebay for my house payment, or what? <g Also, I purchased 30 surprises for the swap members, maybe we could use those for a raffle or something if less than 30 folks show up, as well? Advice from past Swapmeister’s would be appreciated, but will not be remunerated. <g — Padishar Creel "I don’t want to achieve immortality through my work…I want to achieve it through not dying."  – Woody Allen

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If I do *not* receive 30 sets of flies from 30 folks, what do I do with the rest of the flies?     I say you keep them. I just got back from shipping mine, sorry I waited until the last minute. keep ‘em – you did all the work. Peter

ditto for me also…. keep the extras Chris. walt — Ezflyfish.com: http://www.ezflyfish.com Blue Ridge Book Gallery: http://users.boone.net/wgw/brbg.html

Response:

Jon Cook writes: Send ‘em to me! For that, I’d gladly put up with being proclaimed the "ROFF moocher of the year" Of course, LaPlac’s already gonna call me that once I meet him on the Juan…you bringin’ flourocarbon, Dave?

Orvis. 3x, 4x, 5x, 6x, 7x.  Wouldn’t leave home without it.  Got some flies too, ones that will work and probably ain’t never been seen by those Juanian fishies.  20s, 22s, 24s.  <g  Got some surprises for Bruiser, too.  And, I’ll be packin industrial strength Zantac (150mG tablets) – you could eat in T-town with them.   Dave L.

Response:

Same here. Rather tight schedule at the moment, but Saturday evening is set aside for the swap flies. TL MC — "Where fishing is concerned, most anglers are basically manic excessives" http://www.mikeconnor.de – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Pad, You will receive my flies.. I tmay be right at the deadline, but you’ll get em. edwin If I do *not* receive 30 sets of flies from 30 folks, what do I do with the rest of the flies?  If only 20 folks actually participate, would I send out 20 flies each, leaving over 200 flies?  Can we use them for a raffle, or should I just divvy up the extra’s among the fly swap participants? Sell them on Ebay for my house payment, or what? <g Also, I purchased 30 surprises for the swap members, maybe we could use those for a raffle or something if less than 30 folks show up, as well? Advice from past Swapmeister’s would be appreciated, but will not be remunerated. <g — Padishar Creel "I don’t want to achieve immortality through my work…I want to achieve it through not dying."  – Woody Allen

Response:

Any bets on how many times he gets hooks himself sorting all those flies?

None. Willi

Response:

Thirded.  Keep some and donate some either to a ‘clave or give them to your local TU or FFF chapter for fundraising.  If that doesn’t work, just send them to me<g.  I’ll share with the other Massachusetts ROFFians, honest I will<g. –Stan (glad I don’t have to sort 900 flies next week)

Any bets on how many times he gets hooks himself sorting all those flies? Paul

Response:

Thirded.  Keep some and donate some either to a ‘clave or give them to your local TU or FFF chapter for fundraising.  If that doesn’t work, just send them to me<g.  I’ll share with the other Massachusetts ROFFians, honest I will<g. –Stan (glad I don’t have to sort 900 flies next week) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I agree…this should be one of the benefits for being a swap miester Ed B If I do *not* receive 30 sets of flies from 30 folks, what do I do with the rest of the flies?      I say you keep them. I just got back from shipping mine, sorry I waited until the last minute. I second that.  It’s a pain sorting and shipping them all out. If you feel guilty you could pack up half for a Clave raffle and keep the rest. Willi

Response:

Pad, You will receive my flies.. I tmay be right at the deadline, but you’ll get em. edwin

Ditto. Wolfgang

Response:

Chris, It has been crazy here.  I will be sending out my flies Monday. bc. — Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. -Benjamin Franklin

Response:

If I do *not* receive 30 sets of flies from 30 folks, what do I do with the rest of the flies?     I say you keep them. I just got back from shipping mine, sorry I waited until the last minute.

keep ‘em – you did all the work.   Peter

Response:

Question:

if there’s one extra person we could have there, bar none, it’d be you.  and if it helps, we’re all jealous of you 100% of the time.  let me quote (loosely) the great jimmy buffett: you got your pickup washed and you just got paid, with any luck at all you might even get laid, rockin and a rollin on a livingston saturday night. there’s that, the yellowstone, madison, gallatin, bighorn, and bridger bowl and big sky also. bruce h

        i’ll be damned if i don’t think i see some tar heel in you goddam cowboys!  good thinkin, and good talkin, bruce! your friend in the old north state wayno

Response:

<snipped I’ll get tying some up for us. bc. — Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. -Benjamin Franklin

Response:

It is working again.

thanks warren, i thought i’d done something miraculous when the treads started coming up readable again. Wish I was able to make it.  I am getting really jealous right now.

if there’s one extra person we could have there, bar none, it’d be you.  and if it helps, we’re all jealous of you 100% of the time.  let me quote (loosely) the great jimmy buffett: you got your pickup washed and you just got paid, with any luck at all you might even get laid, rockin and a rollin on a livingston saturday night. there’s that, the yellowstone, madison, gallatin, bighorn, and bridger bowl and big sky also. bruce h — bare your soul let your spirit burn out along the road to no return – r.e. keen Before you buy.

Response:

Let me know what size the grey ones are, and I’ll tie some up.

i’m not sure but i think they’re slightly larger.  use a tiemco 2488 size 24 and grey thread.  black thread for the rib and a crystal flash emerger wing.  black thread head. i bet we just see continued hatches of those tiny black midges, but who knows. bruce h — bare your soul let your spirit burn out along the road to no return – r.e. keen Before you buy.

Response:

I didn’t get your original post on my news server, I had to go to Deja to read it.

   I can’t get anything on the web today, just e-mail and newsgroups. Do you think Al Gore got so mad he turned off the internet?

Response:

yes, absolutely.  100% tiny black midges as far as i could tell.  with that black midge, the hatch goes quickly and the fish don’t take emergers for very long.

I have some black midges that I tied for the Green earlier this year. I’ll remember to bring them for this trip. the other midge i see a lot is grey with a black rib.  when those bugs hatch it seems like the hatch lasts longer and that the fish really get going on emergers.  just a theory though.

Almost sounds like a Grey RS2.  What size? and i’m told there are many other common midge hatches up there, it just seems like i either see black ones or grey ones with the black rib.

Let me know what size the grey ones are, and I’ll tie some up. bc. — Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. -Benjamin Franklin

Response:

Are they the tiny little black midges?

yes, absolutely.  100% tiny black midges as far as i could tell.  with that black midge, the hatch goes quickly and the fish don’t take emergers for very long. the other midge i see a lot is grey with a black rib.  when those bugs hatch it seems like the hatch lasts longer and that the fish really get going on emergers.  just a theory though. and i’m told there are many other common midge hatches up there, it just seems like i either see black ones or grey ones with the black rib. bruce h — bare your soul let your spirit burn out along the road to no return – r.e. keen Before you buy.

Response:

<excellent scouting report snipped

Bruce, Thanks for the report. I didn’t get your original post on my news server, I had to go to Deja to read it. I’m hoping this spell of good weather we’re having lasts for the Juan get together. Willi

Response:

Willi, I did not get the original post either.   Bruce, Awesome report. Thanks for the selfless act of doing some recon for our benefit. I am sure the other fellow clavers thank you as well. You said people were using dry flies.  Are they the tiny little black midges? bc. — Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. -Benjamin Franklin

Response:

<excellent scouting report snipped 1.  I can’t get email right now, and i’m actually having trouble with deja.com – when i get into the newsgroup the posts aren’t grouped into threads and the latest posts are from 11/21.  If anyone can help me here, i’d appreciate it.  In the meantime, if you need to reach me, call me at work 800-776-5973.  (bruce hopper’s my full name).

It is working again.  They were doing some maintenence on Deja and that was why it pulled up the weird format for the newsgroups.  When it puts a ‘*’ in the search section it means they are doing some work on the system. always wears breathables, but i switched to neoprenes at lunch and i was much more comfy after that, except when i stepped in a little deep and felt that awful feeling of water inside the waders.

There is a product called Simmseal (sp?) that works wonders for leaky neoprenes.  It is a liquid neoprene and you just pour a drop on the leak, spread it around a little and let it set.  Very easy fix once you find the leak. Wish I was able to make it.  I am getting really jealous right now. — Warren Before you buy.

Response:

I made it up to the SJ saturday to try to figure out where the fish are before everyone shows up.  Here’s a list of mostly unrelated observations: 1.  I can’t get email right now, and i’m actually having trouble with deja.com – when i get into the newsgroup the posts aren’t grouped into threads and the latest posts are from 11/21.  If anyone can help me here, i’d appreciate it.  In the meantime, if you need to reach me, call me at work 800-776-5973.  (bruce hopper’s my full name). 2.  It’s certainly tougher to see into the water with the sun so low, but when the fish are making rise forms, either taking emergers or dries, they’re easy to see.  I used several tricks to spot fish holding deeper, because sight fishing with nymphs is one of the most productive methods for me up there.  I stood on the bank, varied my angle, squinted, etc.  Early in the day, you can see into the water well from the north side of the river.  The rest of the day it help to face north and get the sun at your back. 3.  There was maybe 2.5 hrs during the day where the fish were taking dries.  I saw lots of fish on dries out in the current about 200 yards below texas hole – also a good place to get some water to yourself.  I caught fish by just putting emergers on the surface.  When i actually picked out a single fish and used a few different dry fly/tippet combos, all i got was refusals.  Tough customers. 4.  Knowing where the fish are is so important now, so i scouted the area right below the dam where the fish are known to be plentiful, large, and very selective.  They mostly take the tiny midge patterns close to the dam, although lots of folks fish leeches, worms, and eggs up there also.  I picked up only two fish there after lots of work. Both on size 24 red larva.  All day i landed 10 fish and that counts two smaller ones. 5.  Overall it was a bit of a frustrating day.  Ten fish isn’t bad, but i caught about 4 in the last half hour, nymphing deep in the main channel, blind casting where i knew there were fish.  It was cold all day and i dropped 4 or 5 flies before tying them on.  When you drop a size 24 ufo, don’t bother looking for it.  I’m one of those guys who always wears breathables, but i switched to neoprenes at lunch and i was much more comfy after that, except when i stepped in a little deep and felt that awful feeling of water inside the waders. 6.  I fish there a lot and i’ve got all the patterns and equipment, etc, but getting advice from me is a lot different than fishing with a guide.  For some reason they’ve just got it dialed in, and I think it’s mostly knowing where the fish are holding at that particular time. I’ve only fished with a guide four times up there, and each time i’ve caught far more fish than i would’ve on my own.  If anyone wants a guide for a day, i’d recommend Chris Guikema http://www.sanjuanworm.com – he is friendly and an excellent guide.  Craig at Float n Fish said he’d guide for this group (he knows we’re coming) and fishing with him would be a treat also.  Float n Fish has no website, but they can be reached at 505-632-5385 – Craig or Ray will usually answer the phone. 7.  The water was still clear, lake turnover hasn’t started yet.  Every day that goes by clear increases our chances of encountering cloudy water 8.  Something i’ve noticed lately:  Lots of guys enter the river carrying two rods, one set up for dries, one for nymphs.  At first i thought "give me a break" but when i think about it it makes some sense.  Lots of times i see fish surfacing so i quickly pull the yarn out of my leader and pop the indicator knot out and switch to emergers or a dry and by the time i’ve made the change, maybe three minutes, the fish aren’t rising any more.  So, i switch back to a deep rig and re rig and indicator (5 min) only to find the fish surfacing again. Either i’m real dumb (very likely) or these "two rod" guys have a good idea. I’m really looking forward to seeing/meeting everyone. bruce h — bare your soul let your spirit burn out along the road to no return – r.e. keen Before you buy.

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Question:

A couple of years ago I got caught up on FF list and attended a gathering in the Lake Placid area with a friend that lives in the area. We met a good  bunch of folk that liked to party, smoke cigars, drink single malt and wear funny hats and my recently widowed buddy looked like scoring.  On leaving on the Sunday I said to my friend, "what did you think", and he replied, "very wierd, non of ‘em can cast worth a shit" I guess it is different now because it is just not the computery types that haunt the list, but is it?   The list has really changed not only in members but in content. I can remember getting shit for starting a thread that was only marginal flyfishing . Keep it up boys, it may not be flyfishing but it is entertaining and educating. Terry Ps what is the average lifespan for a patriarch on the list?

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A couple of years ago I got caught up on FF list and attended a gathering in the Lake Placid area with a friend that lives in the area. We met a good  bunch of folk that liked to party, smoke cigars, drink single malt and wear funny hats and my recently widowed buddy looked like scoring.  On leaving on the Sunday I said to my friend, "what did you think", and he replied, "very wierd, non of ‘em can cast worth a shit" I guess it is different now because it is just not the computery types that haunt the list, but is it? The list has really changed not only in members but in content. I can remember getting shit for starting a thread that was only marginal flyfishing . Keep it up boys, it may not be flyfishing but it is entertaining and educating. Terry Ps what is the average lifespan for a patriarch on the list?

Terry, now that you mention it, that’s how our first NC clave was I’ll never fergit IJ in that raffle hat that Jeff donated. What a sight Course, some of us can cast, aspersions that is. http://users.boone.net/wgw/clave.html everyone’s invited! Walt — Ezflyfish.com:  http://www.ezflyfish.com http://auctions.yahoo.com/booth/ezflyfish_com Used, Rare, & Out-of-Print Books: http://www.bibliofind.com/cgi-bin/texis.exe/s/search/dhome.html?id=33…

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terry, your post is more than a bit gehrke-esque…   …guess we all have different measures or standards for determining the worth or nature of a fisherman.  whether someone can "cast worth a shit" isn’t among any of my criteria for making a judgment (maybe cause i can’t cast worth a shit). i like what mcguane said:         "Uncle Ben, was my father a good fisherman?"         "No, Tommy, he was not.  But no one loved it more." I prefer the company of fishermen who "love it", and could give a rip whether they can cast or even catch fish. I like fishing with them, and, if they like fishing with someone who "loves it", I think they’ll like fishing with me. jeff   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A couple of years ago I got caught up on FF list and attended a gathering in the Lake Placid area with a friend that lives in the area. We met a good  bunch of folk that liked to party, smoke cigars, drink single malt and wear funny hats and my recently widowed buddy looked like scoring.  On leaving on the Sunday I said to my friend, "what did you think", and he replied, "very wierd, non of ‘em can cast worth a shit" I guess it is different now because it is just not the computery types that haunt the list, but is it? The list has really changed not only in members but in content. I can remember getting shit for starting a thread that was only marginal flyfishing . Keep it up boys, it may not be flyfishing but it is entertaining and educating. Terry Ps what is the average lifespan for a patriarch on the list?

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Terry, At the Spring ‘99 clave and the Fall Ball clave (Oct ‘99) I had the opportunity to observe, and fish with, a cross-section of roff participants and I can state that there are quite a number that can, indeed cast.  Several can also catch fish.  As for the consumption of single malt, cigars, etc, that has been raised to an art form. Evolving, I might add. During the in-between and subsequent periods, I have continued to sully my reputation by associating with some members of the aforementioned group: the downward spiral notwithstanding. The Darwinian progression of this group will eventually and undoubtedly, exceed any one individual’s ability to describe or define it.  In the meantime, I will just wear my funny hat(s) and try to avoid anyone watching me cast.. about that…. And, you’re right, it’s not just "just not the computery types", there’re engineers here now….. Tom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -. A couple of years ago I got caught up on FF list and attended a gathering in the Lake Placid area with a friend that lives in the area. We met a good  bunch of folk that liked to party, smoke cigars, drink single malt and wear funny hats and my recently widowed buddy looked like scoring.  On leaving on the Sunday I said to my friend, "what did you think", and he replied, "very wierd, non of ‘em can cast worth a shit" I guess it is different now because it is just not the computery types that haunt the list, but is it? The list has really changed not only in members but in content. I can remember getting shit for starting a thread that was only marginal flyfishing . Keep it up boys, it may not be flyfishing but it is entertaining and educating. Terry Ps what is the average lifespan for a patriarch on the list?

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Question:

What is the best line size for small mouth fishing?

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What is the best line size for small mouth fishing?

Since smallies rarely get over 6lbs in our neck of the woods, I use 6lb Maxima (or 4lb if I want to be really subtle) on my spinning gear. I use 10-12lbs test on my baitcaster for crank baits where finesse is not a requirement. And unlike largemouth you don’t often have to horse smallies out of heavy cover so anything over 10lbs is probably overkill. David E. Malone All opinions expressed are my own.

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I have used a 7wt rod/line combo. When fishing in the shallows I look for a shorter leader, say a six footer with an eighteen inch tippet. This setup also works well in windy conditions. In deeper water like around rocks in the middle of a lake where there might be a dropoff I use a sinktip line with as long a leader as possible usually around ten feet. This is all subject to change if there is a lot of wind. Then I usually stay home and fly a kite!   Hope this is some help. A guy who knows one heck of a lot more than I do set me up this way and it seems to work.                                                         Best of luck,                                  J.Christian Decker,  Danville, NH

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What is the best line size for small mouth fishing?

Largest flies needed for SMB are #4 streamers tied sparse, which a #7 fly line can carry to maximum range.  (If not, go one fly size smaller or one fly line size heavier.) — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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I thought this group was for fly-fishermen, not Bass Masters.  I normally use a six weight line for streamers (sink tip) and an eight weight wf floating for poppers etc…

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I use anywhere from an eight weight down to a five. It depends on the stream and the fly that I want to fish with. My tippets will be from a 6x all the way to a 1x for the big ones! Jon Porter

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Question:

Check out the AMI Recreation Network: http://www.aminews.com/ami Fly fishing, fishing, outdoor and travel news. Updated weekly. Looking for news items and fishing reports. AMI News is largest recreation news bureau in nation.

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Check out the AMI Recreation Network: http://www.aminews.com/ami Fly fishing, fishing, outdoor and travel news.

Phhhhpptt! Pretty weak, imho…I won’t waste the bandwidth there again…. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< < Digital Equipment Corp.    Alpha Server Engineering  < <           "Read this and nobody gets hurt"           < <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

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How about some interesting new discussion topics, or maybe some fish stories? I can’t go fishing ’cause it’s exam time, but surely someone else has something entertaining to say. Montana Bob, stuck in the computer lab again.

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How about some interesting new discussion topics, or maybe some fish stories? I can’t go fishing ’cause it’s exam time, but surely someone else has something entertaining to say.

OK, I’m hoping to go out South of Buena Vista, Colorado (Brown’s Canyon, a summertime whitewater rafting haven, but full of trout) to flyfish on the Arkansas this coming Christmas week, since I’ve got most of the week off, but I’m wondering if I’ll run into problems with hard water (water so hard you can’t get your fly through it). It’s been pretty chilly (more than normal at least) lately, hopefully things will warm up a little soon. Anyone fished the Arkansas in cold weather with any luck? Lots of bead-head princes, I presume, what other flies/nymphs/sizes would you recommend? — Cray Computer Corporation    http://www.craycos.com/~ferguson/ferguson.html Colorado Springs, CO                                     Solely my opinions

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Question:

Does anyone know a mail-order outfit (name, phone num) that carries the velco-tie style of felt-sole wading shoe?

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Does anyone know a mail-order outfit (name, phone num) that carries the velco-tie style of felt-sole wading shoe?

I got a velcro-cloe pair from Hook and Hackle (in NY) a couple of years ago.  They have held up just fine.  They have an 800 #, but its at home and I’m not….  They usually advertise in the fly fishing magazines…. Nat Davis Virginia Tech.

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msuinfo!uwm.edu!psuvax1!news.pop.psu.edu!hudson.lm.com!godot.cc.duq.edu!new s.du
ke.edu!solaris.cc.vt.edu!usenet – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly Organization: Virginia Tech, Blacksburg, Virginia Lines: 14 NNTP-Posting-Host: dulcimer.ee.vt.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-NUPop-Charset: English Does anyone know a mail-order outfit (name, phone num) that carries the velco-tie style of felt-sole wading shoe? I got a velcro-cloe pair from Hook and Hackle (in NY) a couple of years ago.  They have held up just fine.  They have an 800 #, but its at home and I’m not….  They usually advertise in the fly fishing magazines…. Nat Davis Virginia Tech.

The brand of velcro-ties I have is Pro-Line; they have held up for two seasons, and are great to have with cold, gloved hands. Mine are one size larger than my normal shoe size for the neoprenes. I bought mine at a store in Kalamazoo, but I have seen them in Bass Pro and other catalogs. Jim Johnson Michigan State University

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Does anyone know a mail-order outfit (name, phone num) that carries the velco-tie style of felt-sole wading shoe? I got a velcro-cloe pair from Hook and Hackle (in NY) a couple of years ago.  They have held up just fine.  They have an 800 #, but its at home and I’m not….  They usually advertise in the fly fishing magazines…. Nat Davis Virginia Tech.

Hook and Hackle’s number is 1-800-552-8342.  The shoes in question are made by Pro-Line and cost $32.25.  I bought Pro-Line’s 44mm neoprene stocking-foot waders from H&H for $65 and have been reasonably satisfied with the product. Hook and Hackle respond efficiently and have good prices. Peter Just

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