Question:

  There’s fish in there all year round, but in the winter it’s also stocked with rainbows.  The fish spread out over the length of the "clear ditch" and are very spooky.  The banks are also very high, which makes it difficult to be stealthy.  It’s known as my state’s most technically demanding flyfishing.  

Good report Bruce. The spooky fish sure are a switch from the Juan’s. Learn how to take these fish, Bruce. They’ll teach you alot. Willi

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 We’ve recently moved to the north end of town, …

Thanks for the report, Bruce. Some have had success fishing over recently stocked fish using a "brown wooly booger" slapped heavily on the surface. Matching the trout chow hatch, as it were. I wouldn’t want to embarrass anyone by divulging this "technique", but it’s been known to work on the stocker sections of the Watauga. — Ken Fortenberry

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Some have had success fishing over recently stocked fish using a "brown wooly booger" slapped heavily on the surface. Matching the trout chow hatch, as it were. I wouldn’t want to embarrass anyone by divulging this "technique", but it’s been known to work on the stocker sections of the Watauga.

Haven’t tried that one. But how about this one: sixteen beadhead pheasant tail nymphs tied in tandem. Toss that rig into the pool and it looks just like a pellet shower. Works every time! –Steve

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You’ve been hanging around Louie to long. Flies aren’t supposed to get wet. Paul

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Some have had success fishing over recently stocked fish using a "brown wooly booger" slapped heavily on the surface. Matching the trout chow hatch, as it were. I wouldn’t want to embarrass anyone by divulging this "technique", but it’s been known to work on the stocker sections of the Watauga. Haven’t tried that one. But how about this one: sixteen beadhead pheasant tail nymphs tied in tandem. Toss that rig into the pool and it looks just like a pellet shower. Works every time! –Steve

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Rumor has it that one Waldosomebodyorother has ingeniously adapted a cotton candy machine to spin Trout Chow and glycerine into pseudo hair/hackle.  Deadly flies made from this marvelous "natural" and "organic" product are being manufactured by the millions in third world country slave labor camps and being readied for release as the Trout-O-Matic early in the Spring. Tom  (rumormonger) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  We’ve recently moved to the north end of town, … Thanks for the report, Bruce. Some have had success fishing over recently stocked fish using a "brown wooly booger" slapped heavily on the surface. Matching the trout chow hatch, as it were. I wouldn’t want to embarrass anyone by divulging this "technique", but it’s been known to work on the stocker sections of the Watauga. — Ken Fortenberry

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 We’ve recently moved to the north end of town, near the east bank of the Rio Grande.  I’m on a dirt road for the first time in my life, and we’re the only home among six on our road that has no livestock.  Not fancy, but you can see the stars at night and we like it. On the west side of the river there’s a little old apple farming town that’s almost been swallowed by urban sprawl.  That little town has protected itself with zoning laws designed to preserve it’s rural characther, and it’s worked.  There’s also a spring creek running through that little town, next to the Rio Grande.  The creek was remanufactured (probably over 100 years ago) to run through a man made channel and it looks like an irrigation ditch.  Unlike all of the other ditches that make up the Albuquerque drain system, however, this one runs clear and cold all year long and has lots of aquatic plant life and insects.  There’s fish in there all year round, but in the winter it’s also stocked with rainbows.  The fish spread out over the length of the "clear ditch" and are very spooky.  The banks are also very high, which makes it difficult to be stealthy.  It’s known as my state’s most technically demanding flyfishing.  In five previous tries, usually consisting of a couple hours of fishing, I’ve caught a grand total of one pretty large rainbow. Thursday afternoon, I tried again, this time with a good friend from work.  We parked near another ditch, a muddy one, and started to get rigged up.  A fellow walking down the opposite bank asked if my truck was ok (maybe he thought I was parking in a strange place).  My friend asked if there’s a better place to park to fish the clear ditch, and our new friend obliged us by pointing me to a better place to park than I’ve ever discovered before, just through a small gate to a prime stretch of water.  My truck was the only vehicle there, but this spot was obviously not a secret.  You could tell people park there often. When we got to the ditch, there was no problem finding fish.  In the first depression we spotted a couple little rainbows that we managed not to spook.  No luck.  My friend was fishing tiny dries and I, tiny nymphs.  We moved all over and tried every trick we know to no avail. We’d fish where we saw fish and none of them were interested in our imitations.  There was a terrific hatch of small mayflies but our stocker friends in front of us weren’t feeding on them actively.  A couple of times, in frustration, we stood up on the bank and showed ourselves to the fish and instead of the two or three we had spotted, twenty or thirty of them would begin swirling in front of us but they wouldn’t leave the depression they were sitting in.  We weren’t catching any fish, but we were having fun trying. More fishermen appeared in our primo stretch of water.  The bait guys (two of them) kept their distance and fished from the bushes, drifting single eggs to the fish with no luck.  The other fly fishermen, however, were not a shy, asking us how we were doing, spooking fish as they walked past us up on the streambank.  There were four other fly fishermen, all kids, and they had no clue about fishing manners, but they were just kids and they were nice.  And we weren’t catching any fish anyway. I spotted a 15" carp and before i could cast to him, while trying to get into postition, lost sight of him.  He was real spooky.  My friend and I spent some more time walking to get away from the others and I had told my friend to keep an eye out for larger carp.  He called me over because he had spotted a ‘white’ fish and wanted me to drift my nymph to it.  He thought maybe it was a smaller carp an it was sitting on the bottom. My glasses must be better than his because i could tell right away that it was a white goldfish about 7 inches long, and he was flanked in the water by no less than 4 other goldfish, all gold.  Those goldfish must be selective feeders.  I tried midges, scuds, mayflies, all to no avail.  I thought SJ fish were selective!  Well, it got dark and we went home. So, if anyone wants to visit me and sight fish for goldfish, let me know bruce h — bare your soul let your spirit burn out along the road to no return – r.e. keen

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Question:

fishworship

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am new to the sport and new to this board.  Is there somewhere I am supposed to look before asking basic newbie questions?  Or just ask away? Thanks, Ray

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I am new to the sport and new to this board.  Is there somewhere I am supposed to look before asking basic newbie questions?  Or just ask away? Thanks, Ray

You’ve already shown far more courtesy than the majority of newbies that come here for flyfishing advice. Thanks. We do have a FAQ http://www.cs.nmsu.edu/~jcook/ROFF/ Other than that, read the rantings for a week or so to get the gist of the ongoing conversations and a feel for the "group dynamics", then wade right on in. It’s a nice enough place, and we even talk about flyfishing every now and then. Welcome to flyfishing & welcome to ROFF. — Ken Fortenberry

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I am new to the sport and new to this board.  Is there somewhere I am supposed to look before asking basic newbie questions?  Or just ask away?

There is not much of a FAQ, unfortunately.  Ask, and if you get flamed either flame back or ignore them.  Repeat.  Enjoy. Regards, Jeff

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I am new to the sport and new to this board.  Is there somewhere I am supposed to look before asking basic newbie questions?  Or just ask away?

Isn’t it a little late for that, erk? — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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I am new to the sport and new to this board.  Is there somewhere I am supposed to look before asking basic newbie questions?  Or just ask away? Thanks, Ray

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Question:

Beeswax, among other various uses, is one of the few materials used for lining moulds etc in the food  and confectionery trades for preventing particularly sticky sweets from sticking. They are known as release, or separation agents.  Glue is not used for this purpose. Bees use wax as a construction material, not as a glue. The whole construction of the comb is pure wax.  Glue is a foreign substance used to join similar or dissimilar materials. Paraffin wax is used for similar purposes to beeswax in other areas. Practically nothing will stick to a polished wax surface. Both of these waxes, and indeed a number of other substances may be used to prevent ferrules "binding". In this sense they are used partly as lubricants, and partly as solid separating agents. Binding ( in the case of carbon fibre, and other rod ferrules),is invariably caused by a substance rubbing against an identical substance, especially when the joint is tapered.    Wax of practically any sort will prevent this for varying periods of time, depending on how often the joint is used. Hard white wax works best, lasts longest, and is cheap and  convenient to use. Solid beeswax will stick to more or less nothing apart from itself, and only then when it is warm enough to melt, and the same applies to solid paraffin wax.  Most especially so, when polished after application. Liquid waxes, and other substances used for lubrication, like various oils etc, will indeed stick to things, trap dust, grit etc, and the lubricant coat providing the separation of surfaces will break down much more rapidly, simply because it will flow away. Hard polished wax will neither stick to things, nor will it flow away.  It is also intrinsically waterproof. This makes it ideal for treating ferrules. Some info on wax may be obtained here: http://www.wetestit.com/wax.htm Personally I don

Question:

Great report, guys.  Peter, are you standing in a hole in that picture?  <g Never saw Forty in waders.  Hope I never do again.  <g  I like your hat, Forty.  Eff ‘em all if they don’t! Glad you guys had a great trip, and like Charlie has said, I find it hard to believe it did not rain.   Dave LaCourse

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They call it "The Carnival" because during steelhead season it is packed with anglers. On a Monday morning, it was relatively uncrowded. "Relatively" being the key word.

Welcome to Michigan! A great day of fishing. The Muskegon River is a beautiful piece of water. It supports a spawning population of steelhead and Chinook salmon. It’s not really a trout stream, though. All the trout are stockers and they don’t get any natural reproduction.

I believe there are places where you can find resident trout.  I was speaking with a guy last night who has been fishing the Muskegon on and off for the last three weeks.  He said he caught several browns and rainbows in the 16" – 19".  Of course he was fishing private water that is rarely encountered except for people who are taking long float trips. Good to hear you guys got into some steelies.  I’ve been meaning to go out this year but only made it out once and left early after only two hours of fishing.  I was disgusted by the "relatively" uncrowded conditions.  Did catch some trout but on my 9 wt they weren’t too much fun. Mu

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Glad you guys had a great trip, and like Charlie has said, I find it hard to believe it did not rain.   Dave LaCourse

Worse, it snowed. Peter

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real truth along with the evidence can be viewed at: http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/trip-27.html

The truth ain’t always ugly.  Nice pics, whoever took them – both you and Ken did a good job of that. Delorme’s can be wrong (the Michigan one at least).  They don’t show all the dirt roads and there are some *roads* on that map that are just dirt trails.  Some of the names of the roads change as they cross county lines or highways and this is not always clearly marked on the map.  Also, the green color on the Delorme is supposed to represent public land but the detail is not fine enough to show you that on many of these streams there are in fact houses along the river.  I don’t mind too much though, the exploration part is just part of the fun of fishing.   BTW, I like Ken’s hat – got a Kangol just like it, earflaps and all. Mu

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<great report snipped Nice Report Ken.  You reminded me of the first time on the San Juan last November.  I left my wading shoes in the car after my first day fishing, got down to the river the next morning and they were frozen solid. bc. — Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. -Benjamin Franklin

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A great day of fishing. The Muskegon River is a beautiful piece of water. It supports a spawning population of steelhead and Chinook salmon. It’s not really a trout stream, though. All the trout are stockers and they don’t get any natural reproduction. I believe there are places where you can find resident trout.  I was speaking with a guy last night who has been fishing the Muskegon on and off for the last three weeks.  He said he caught several browns and rainbows in the 16" – 19". …

That’s right. Residents aka holdovers. I caught a nice 12" rainbow, he didn’t put up much of a fight against a 7wt. Those 6-8 inchers will be 12-14 inchers by fall and there are holdovers that make it through the winter. When I say it’s not a trout stream I mean that trout do not reproduce in the stream, they are all stocked. The spawning population of steelies and salmon head out to Lake Michigan after their sexual escapades in the Muskegon and return year after year to spawn. Their offspring do the same. While some would claim they’re not "wild" because they were stocked in the first place they are "natural" in my book. Unlike the trout. — Ken Fortenberry

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Why can’t the rainbows spawn if the steelhead and salmon can? Are they outcompeted by the bigger fish?

Good question. I don’t know. I’m not familiar with the Muskegon at all and don’t know much about it. BTW, the salmon don’t return year after year. They die. I think I’ve heard of experiments with Atlantics in the Great Lakes, but the vast majority are Pacific salmon.

That’s right, the salmon that spawn in the Muskegon are Chinooks. — Ken Fortenberry

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Ken Have they ever tried Cutts in these rivers? Dave

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Have they ever tried Cutts in these rivers?

Don’t know, David. I’m more familiar with Wisconsin DNR than Michigan. So far as I know, Wisconsin has not. — Ken Fortenberry

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That’s right. Residents aka holdovers. I caught a nice 12" rainbow, he didn’t put up much of a fight against a 7wt. Those 6-8 inchers will be 12-14 inchers by fall and there are holdovers that make it through the winter. When I say it’s not a trout stream I mean that trout do not reproduce in the stream, they are all stocked.

My guess is that it has nothing to do with water quality but other factors such as: available spawning space (competition from the big guys), fishing pressure, low survivability of the stockers (poor genetics?), and perhaps seasonal factors that affect residents but not migratories. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Unlike the trout. — Ken Fortenberry

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -The truth ain’t always ugly.  Nice pics, whoever took them – both you and Ken did a good job of that. Delorme’s can be wrong (the Michigan one at least).  They don’t show all the dirt roads and there are some *roads* on that map that are just dirt trails.  Some of the names of the roads change as they cross county lines or highways and this is not always clearly marked on the map.  Also, the green color on the Delorme is supposed to represent public land but the detail is not fine enough to show you that on many of these streams there are in fact houses along the river.  I don’t mind too much though, the exploration part is just part of the fun of fishing.   BTW, I like Ken’s hat – got a Kangol just like it, earflaps and all. Mu

I was just being an ass.  The Delorme showed a Pettit road that lead straight to Croton.  It was a goat track and it ended at some power lines where trees and stumps had been dragged across the right-of-way. One would guess from the Delorme that it was a decent road.  Ken was right, the Delorme was wrong. Peter

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Great trip report guys.   Thanks for the smiles. Joe F.

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Anyway, enough of the Entertainment Tonight segment of the trip.  The real truth along with the evidence can be viewed at: http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/trip-27.html

Nice report and pictures, but it didn’t seem to be raining so are you sure that was really Fortenberry in the festive chapeau? — Charlie…

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……I have an ET2 secret that he’d pay me mucho dinaro not to reveal on these pages.

I’ll open the bidding at 5 bucks.

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……I have an ET2 secret that he’d pay me mucho dinaro not to reveal on these pages. I’ll open the bidding at 5 bucks.

i’ll see that 5 and raise, a hush falls over the table, hee-hee-hee…. a bottle of wild turkey for maine clave — Ezflyfish.com:  http://www.ezflyfish.com http://auctions.yahoo.com/booth/ezflyfish_com Used, Rare, & Out-of-Print Books: http://www.crosswinds.net/~brbg/books/brbg-2.html

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Good report.  Nice to see pictures on your site. Willi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Peter is the one on the right with the teeny weeny bright hen and I’m the one on the left with the huge brawny buck. [a somewhat accurate story snipped] — Ken Fortenberry Teeny weeny hen my ass.  Just to set the record straight, I caught the hens, Ken caught the bucks.  Not trying to imply something here, but I’m starting question his "orientation" if you know what I mean.  (Say no more.   Say no more.  Nudge, Nudge, Wink, Wink)  Any way, if he keeps up with those exaggerations, I have an ET2 secret that he’d pay me mucho dinaro not to reveal on these pages. Anyway, enough of the Entertainment Tonight segment of the trip.  The real truth along with the evidence can be viewed at: http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/trip-27.html Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Marvellous report, great pictures too. I really enjoyed that.  Thanks TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

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Holy macaroni! Who the hell are the two "dudes" in the pictures with the guide?

The good looking "dude" is me.  I’m the one with the rod.  The fish is the thing with fins.  The guide is holding the thing with fins. Notice I made Ken’s fish picture big and my fish picture small.  Am I a great person or what, eh? Where the heck did Ken get that hat??

He loves it – and I had to put up with all of the sniggers from the bait fishermen. And what’s this – Ken fishing for stockers?!?

with a gusto, I might add That’s it. The world is coming to an end. /daytripper (awe-palled…)

Naw, just a blip.  Now if he’d used spawn on the end of his T&T  . . . . Peter

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Teeny weeny hen my ass.  Just to set the record straight, I caught the hens, Ken caught the bucks.  Not trying to imply something here, but I’m starting question his "orientation" if you know what I mean.  (Say no more.   Say no more.  Nudge, Nudge, Wink, Wink)  Any way, if he keeps up with those exaggerations, I have an ET2 secret that he’d pay me mucho dinaro not to reveal on these pages. Anyway, enough of the Entertainment Tonight segment of the trip.  The real truth along with the evidence can be viewed at: http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/trip-27.html

Holy macaroni! Who the hell are the two "dudes" in the pictures with the guide? Where the heck did Ken get that hat?? And what’s this – Ken fishing for stockers?!? That’s it. The world is coming to an end. /daytripper (awe-palled…)

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Nice report. Thanks, almost like being there, especially the bloody freezing feet ! TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

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Peter is the one on the right with the teeny weeny bright hen and I’m the one on the left with the huge brawny buck.

[a somewhat accurate story snipped] — Ken Fortenberry

Teeny weeny hen my ass.  Just to set the record straight, I caught the hens, Ken caught the bucks.  Not trying to imply something here, but I’m starting question his "orientation" if you know what I mean.  (Say no more.   Say no more.  Nudge, Nudge, Wink, Wink)  Any way, if he keeps up with those exaggerations, I have an ET2 secret that he’d pay me mucho dinaro not to reveal on these pages. Anyway, enough of the Entertainment Tonight segment of the trip.  The real truth along with the evidence can be viewed at: http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/trip-27.html Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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… Where the heck did Ken get that hat??

Hey, that’s a great hat, fleece, Goretex AND ear flaps,…ahhh, ear flaps. Peter made fun of it too, can you imagine, and him looking like the Unabomber in that hood. And what’s this – Ken fishing for stockers?!?

Yeah I know, it made the guide happy. I considered it part of his tip. Those fish were put in the river the previous Thursday, all were 6-8 inches and dumber than dumb. The guide said if there’s anything in your fly box that you’d like to pull out at some point and say, "Can you believe I caught a fish on THAT.", now is the time to tie it on. They had six inches of snow the previous Friday and he said they were rising furiously to snow flakes. — Ken Fortenberry

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We picked the Muskegon River in Michigan because it’s roughly equidistant between my home in Urbana, IL and Peter Charles’ home in Burlington, Ontario. As fishing season 2000 started to unfold and dates started firming up, it was starting to look like Peter and I wouldn’t have a chance to wet a line together. I can’t make it to Maine ‘Clave, Peter can’t make it to Spring Fling so obviously we had to do something. It was basically put a finger on the map, let’s fish there. We hired a guide for Monday and met at the motel late morning on Sunday. I had my canoe and the plan was to buy licenses and familiarize ourselves with the area before the guided trip the next day. While buying the licenses I discovered a couple of things. First, if you catch a female steelhead early in the day, just gut her on the spot and you’ve got bait for the rest of the day. This from the very friendly bait guys at the Trading Post. I said, "Yeah, thanks. What a great idea." They did give us some very helpful advice on access points and I genuinely like talking to those guys even if I never would gut a hen on the spot. Second, Peter lies about his weight when buying a fishing license. We had a pleasant canoe trip from Croton Dam to the Thornapple Ave. access. Very crowded on a Sunday afternoon and we canoed more than we fished. We did see plenty of steelhead, though. Rather, Peter saw plenty of steelhead, I had left my polarized glasses in the car. Monday morning was cold. My wading shoes were wet from the day before and they turned into ice cubes while sitting in the drift boat. Hard for me to be comfy with cold feet and my feet were encased in ice for the first hour of the trip. We anchored the boat at a place the guides call "The Carnival", an eighth of a mile stretch of riffles and pools about a mile below Croton Dam. They call it "The Carnival" because during steelhead season it is packed with anglers. On a Monday morning, it was relatively uncrowded. "Relatively" being the key word. I got the first couple of hookups but botched them badly. Broke off the fish almost immediately. Peter landed the first steelie after a couple of his own botched hookups. I quickly followed and caught the same buck that had broken me off earlier, so was able to retrieve BOTH of my #14 black stonefly nymphs. We moved down a ways, spotted some fish, anchored and then waded into position. Peter was on almost immediately, our guide looked downstream, looked at the hole where he’d positioned me and said "Here’s our chance for a double." The guide waded down to net Peter’s fish and before he got into position I was on to a fish. The double. Guides love ‘em, and it makes for a great photo op. The first fish took me into the backing but this one seemed content to just sit in a hole and DEFY me. I watched the action downstream as Peter and the guide did the intricate netting dance and then I yelled down to Peter, "Here’s our double !" I worked down to get my fish next to the net so the guide could net both, one right after the other. He did, we got a quick photo, and Peter will post it on his site soon. Peter is the one on the right with the teeny weeny bright hen and I’m the one on the left with the huge brawny buck. I don’t know what Peter was using, I caught that one a Hex nymph. A great day of fishing. The Muskegon River is a beautiful piece of water. It supports a spawning population of steelhead and Chinook salmon. It’s not really a trout stream, though. All the trout are stockers and they don’t get any natural reproduction. Our guide was very good. I have only mentioned one guide in this forum as someone I recommend. That was Robin Cunningham of Gallatin Gateway, Montana. Today, I recommend the second. Dustan Harley of Ripple Guide Service. http://www.rippleguideservice.com/ Dustan had us on the water for nearly 11 hours and was at his most impressive when he stopped the boat, and said "Get out your 4 wts." It was the PERFECT interlude. We tossed stimulators and griffiths gnats to rising stockers. After chucking lead for most of the day with 7 wts, it was a real joy to actually flyfish with a dry fly. We caught dumb little 8" fish and it was a hoot. Dustan will be in Livingston, Montana during Western ‘Clave. He’s a good guy to go fishin’ with. I do question his taste in beer, after the trip when offered a Sleeman’s or a Budweiser, he chose the Sleeman’s. Hey, I said he was a good guide, I won’t vouch for his taste in beer. After that long day in the wind and the cold you might expect a couple of old farts to just go back to motel room, drink a beer in their underwear and go immediately to sleep. Peter and I partied till the wee hours, drank a half a fifth of Wild Turkey, and had to shoo off the dancing girls at daylight. That’s our story and we’re sticking to it. — Ken Fortenberry

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Question:

Alaska River Adventures ( George Heim out of Kenai) is a great operation with a website http://www.alaskariveradv.com/. Katmai Fishing Adventures (Nanci Morris) runs flyfishing trips out of Bristol Bay area but fishes S. Alaska frequently. Katmai is at 907 246 8322 (sorry no web address yet except through http://www.worldangler.com/nmorakad.html – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    Contact The Alaska Expidition Co.  1-800-572-0980 or 903-463-7112.  They have a lodge on the Tsiu river and September is a good time to go.  Lots of silvers, few bears.   Look and the latest fly-fisherman mag.    Scott Hi Gang, Been gone for a while but had nothing but great advice from this newsgroup in the past. I got the nod for an Alaska fishing adventure this Summer around the first of September.  I’d do either a float trip or lodge in the panhandle around Ketchican or Juneau…I’d like some wilderness maby float plane jet boat or raft and lots of wild salmon and trout. Less bears is better but this is Alaska…what can you do. Can anyone suggest a friendly lodge on the budget side that can give you the flyfish trip of a lifetime? Thanks, -John

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Hi Gang, Been gone for a while but had nothing but great advice from this newsgroup in the past. I got the nod for an Alaska fishing adventure this Summer around the first of September.  I’d do either a float trip or lodge in the panhandle around Ketchican or Juneau…I’d like some wilderness maby float plane jet boat or raft and lots of wild salmon and trout. Less bears is better but this is Alaska…what can you do. Can anyone suggest a friendly lodge on the budget side that can give you the flyfish trip of a lifetime? Thanks, -John

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You might look into Alaska Rainbow Adventures for a float trip. Web site at  http://www.akrainbow.com. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Gang, Been gone for a while but had nothing but great advice from this newsgroup in the past. I got the nod for an Alaska fishing adventure this Summer around the first of September.  I’d do either a float trip or lodge in the panhandle around Ketchican or Juneau…I’d like some wilderness maby float plane jet boat or raft and lots of wild salmon and trout. Less bears is better but this is Alaska…what can you do. Can anyone suggest a friendly lodge on the budget side that can give you the flyfish trip of a lifetime? Thanks, -John

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        Contact The Alaska Expidition Co.  1-800-572-0980 or 903-463-7112.  They have a lodge on the Tsiu river and September is a good time to go.  Lots of silvers, few bears.   Look and the latest fly-fisherman mag.         Scott – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Gang, Been gone for a while but had nothing but great advice from this newsgroup in the past. I got the nod for an Alaska fishing adventure this Summer around the first of September.  I’d do either a float trip or lodge in the panhandle around Ketchican or Juneau…I’d like some wilderness maby float plane jet boat or raft and lots of wild salmon and trout. Less bears is better but this is Alaska…what can you do. Can anyone suggest a friendly lodge on the budget side that can give you the flyfish trip of a lifetime? Thanks, -John

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Question:

Thanks everyone! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi! Might anyone know places for fly fishing lessons in the Greater Wash. D.C. Area? Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks! Eric Eric, Smith Coleman is an outstanding fly fishing instructor and works from his shop in Outdoor Adventures on Rt. 3 in Fredericksburg/Spotsylvania Virginia.  Excellent one-on-one lesson packages.  For a bit more advance lessons try Harry Murray in Edinburg Virginia over in the Valley. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

– Eric Schurr                     Coord. for Public Relations Dept. of Electrical and Computer Engineering University of Maryland         2409 A.V. Williams Bldg. College Park, Maryland 20742 Phone: (301)405-3516 Fax: (301)314-9281

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Hi! Might anyone know places for fly fishing lessons in the Greater Wash. D.C. Area? Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks! Eric

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Hi! Might anyone know places for fly fishing lessons in the Greater Wash. D.C. Area? Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks! Eric

Eric, Smith Coleman is an outstanding fly fishing instructor and works from his shop in Outdoor Adventures on Rt. 3 in Fredericksburg/Spotsylvania Virginia.  Excellent one-on-one lesson packages.  For a bit more advance lessons try Harry Murray in Edinburg Virginia over in the Valley. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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Hi! Might anyone know places for fly fishing lessons in the Greater Wash. D.C. Area? Any help would be greatly appreciated!

I took a very good class a few years ago from TROUT AND ABOUT. They have different length classes, and also trips if you like. http://www.troutandabout.com/ — Jeff Cook http://www.cookstudios.com Washington DC area

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Question:

writes I agree with your views.  Trout, as a species is generally a small fish that averages (AVERAGES) about 12 – 14 inches.  Where are the pictures of those?

Regrettably or otherwise, most stillwater anglers would be disappointed if their rainbows measured only 12-14 inches.  That is the state of things where Troutmaster Monthly winners are concerned.  With Triploids of up to 15 lbs stocked, the little ‘uns dont come into the reckonig. Regards, — Bill

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writes I agree with your views.  Trout, as a species is generally a small fish that averages (AVERAGES) about 12 – 14 inches.  Where are the pictures of those? Regrettably or otherwise, most stillwater anglers would be disappointed if their rainbows measured only 12-14 inches.  That is the state of things where Troutmaster Monthly winners are concerned.  With Triploids of up to 15 lbs stocked, the little ‘uns dont come into the reckonig. Regards,

– Ive often wondered if there are enough people  who would like to fish with the lighter fly lines say 3-5 for smaller fish and perhaps pay less for a day ticket. My favourite fishing is for brownies in smallish rivers and streams in the west, Scotland and Eire . Living just outside Milton Keynes I only fish like this for a few weeks a year. A small fish fishery would get my support if within reasonable driving distance. Anybody else feel the same.? Peter Marler

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A small fish fishery would get my support if within reasonable driving distance. Anybody else feel the same.? Peter Marler

One of my local small stillwaters comprises several ponds, the main one has produced a Welsh record trout of over 24 lbs.  Ther is also a beginners fly pond, also an any method pond for children and non fly- fishermen.  One day, on arriving at the lodge, I was told that the "main" pond was full (max. number of anglers), so I asked if I could go on the beginners pond.  The fish here are averaging around 3/4 lbs.  I had a great afternoon’s sport, landing six, but missed about five others, and all the fish caught were decent plate sized trout. The above is a sort of example of your suggestion. Regards, — Bill

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Indeed.  My husband and I search out the small, native and generally less accessible waters in the NC mountains.  We particularly like to fish to the small native brook trout population with a fly my best friend has dubbed the "Energizer" (It keeps going & going much like the battery bunny of US commercials). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – writes I agree with your views.  Trout, as a species is generally a small fish that averages (AVERAGES) about 12 – 14 inches.  Where are the pictures of those? Regrettably or otherwise, most stillwater anglers would be disappointed if their rainbows measured only 12-14 inches.  That is the state of things where Troutmaster Monthly winners are concerned.  With Triploids of up to 15 lbs stocked, the little ‘uns dont come into the reckonig. Regards, — Ive often wondered if there are enough people  who would like to fish with the lighter fly lines say 3-5 for smaller fish and perhaps pay less for a day ticket. My favourite fishing is for brownies in smallish rivers and streams in the west, Scotland and Eire . Living just outside Milton Keynes I only fish like this for a few weeks a year. A small fish fishery would get my support if within reasonable driving distance. Anybody else feel the same.? Peter Marler

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______ I agree with your views.  Trout, as a species is generally a small fish that averages (AVERAGES) about 12 – 14 inches.  Where are the pictures of those? Mr. G. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Totally agree with the perspective photo in Trout Fisherman, I wonder if the angler felt better after his fish was portrayed as some protein-bound leviathan. One point which is hard to digest is the rose-tinted view of some anglers, sure we would all like to be on the magical rivers, catching wild browns, but it is not practical. Fly-fishing is for everyone – I have people fish at Cheshire Fishing, who could not manage to fish rivers, I have shift workers who have to grab every moment they can – people who doubt the beauty of such places, then surely have never been. I have fished on rivers, from the beautiful Eastern Cleddau to the Cheshire Dee, they are certainly no more scenic than Cheshire Fishing. Sure, we have double figure trout, but they are not tailess, egg-bound females, they are hard, silver, full tailed trout and the fish are noted for their beauty whatever the size. The main difference is, our trout are raised in earth ponds and their diet is supplemented with natural invertabrates like Shrimp. Don’t mock man made stillwaters – they have their niche – if you like rivers then fish them. Any doubts I had over the ethics of stillwaters was lost, when the teacher of a group of abused boys, told me that she had never in her career, seen a group hold attention for this length of time, their normal attention span was less than 15 minutes, these were spellbound for four hours, they co-operated with each other, they displayed characteristics never shown before. If anyone would like jpegs of fish, scenery etc, just let me know, and if the perspective is wrong on my pictures, then it is because I am a crap photographer, not because I wanted the fish to look bigger..! You are welcome to visit our website http://freespace.virgin.net/r.j/Cheshire.htm

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Totally agree with the perspective photo in Trout Fisherman, I wonder if the angler felt better after his fish was portrayed as some protein-bound leviathan. One point which is hard to digest is the rose-tinted view of some anglers, sure we would all like to be on the magical rivers, catching wild browns, but it is not practical. Fly-fishing is for everyone – I have people fish at Cheshire Fishing, who could not manage to fish rivers, I have shift workers who have to grab every moment they can – people who doubt the beauty of such places, then surely have never been. I have fished on rivers, from the beautiful Eastern Cleddau to the Cheshire Dee, they are certainly no more scenic than Cheshire Fishing. Sure, we have double figure trout, but they are not tailess, egg-bound females, they are hard, silver, full tailed trout and the fish are noted for their beauty whatever the size. The main difference is, our trout are raised in earth ponds and their diet is supplemented with natural invertabrates like Shrimp. Don’t mock man made stillwaters – they have their niche – if you like rivers then fish them. Any doubts I had over the ethics of stillwaters was lost, when the teacher of a group of abused boys, told me that she had never in her career, seen a group hold attention for this length of time, their normal attention span was less than 15 minutes, these were spellbound for four hours, they co-operated with each other, they displayed characteristics never shown before. If anyone would like jpegs of fish, scenery etc, just let me know, and if the perspective is wrong on my pictures, then it is because I am a crap photographer, not because I wanted the fish to look bigger..! You are welcome to visit our website http://freespace.virgin.net/r.j/Cheshire.htm

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Question:

 So, again, is there any outfit that sells new/used military Jeep trailers or similar ones here in the states?

I know of a place in Ogden, Utah, just north of Salt Lake where there is huge junkyard.  They have a different area there where you can get all kinds of army trailers, sorry but I don’t remember what the place is called. But you can see it from the freeway on the West side. Joe

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That would be Smith & Edwards Surplus I mentioned in my previous post…. — Scott Weiser ****** "I love the Internet, I no longer have to depend upon my friends, family and co-workers, I can annoy people WORLDWIDE!" ****** The opinions expressed are my own.  If I was a laywer, you’d be paying big bucks for this.  All complaints should be

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Now that I nolonger have the luxury space of my Bronco with the Wrangler; I’m in the market for a new/used military jeep trailer. Does anyone know where I can purchase one? The Army did away with the Jeep trailer when they went to the Hummer, so I know there has to be thousands of them out there somewhere. The local Army/Navy store had some well used ones a couple of years ago and was selling them for $350.00. I suspect with the rust and artic camo paint job that they came from some units in Alaska. So, again, is there any outfit that sells new/used military Jeep trailers or similar ones here in the states? TIA, Dennis 4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4 Dennis Noes, 95 Jeep Wrangler 4.0L SE, Atlanta, GA.,USA UNFWDA-SFWDA Four Wheel Drive Education Awareness Rep. Member of United FWD Assoc., Southern 4WD Assoc., Tread Lightly and Georgia Bounty Runners 4WD Club 4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4

Try No Excuses, Inc. located in New Eygpt, NJ. # 1 800 923 JEEP (5337) or  609 758 3833 This is the best place to go for hard to find parts for Jeeps.

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Dennis, I placed my order for one of the last 4.0L YJ’s last July.  While waiting for the promised October delivery, I faced with the same dilema of where to put my camping goodies along with my wife and kids when the Jeep arrived.   I went looking for a trailer.  Used military trailers, I soon found, are very difficult to come by.  I found a company north of Sacramento (Helter Mfg. or something like that) that makes a very well designed Jeep trailer.  However, the $2400 price sent me back to scouring military surplus lots with little success. In early August, while fly-fishing in Idaho, I stopped for a meal at Smitty’s in Idaho Falls.  After ordering, while waiting for my food, I looked across the parking lot and there was an army surplus store with a 1/4 ton military trailer parked in front. About that time my food came,  I woofed and went over to investigate.  As I walked in to the store, a guy was writing a check for the trailer.  When I asked if any more were available, I was told to call the next day and talk to Dana the owner. To make a long story shorter, Dana had purchased 75 of these M146 trailers from a base in Montana.  All were in very good shape and were priced firm at $450 a piece.  At the time he still had "several" left in his other warehouse in Shelly, ID.  Apparently a Las Vegas 4×4 club had purchased 10 sight-unseen and were on there way up for them later that month.   I purchased a nice brigadier general’s trailer complete with a star on the back and a pintle hitch for another $30.  The trailer was built new in 1967 and still has the origonal rubber.  My biggest problem was adapting the 1 1/4" mini receiver hitch on my minivan to pintle hitch.  With a little engineering and a little help from a friend in Island Park we rigged up the hitch.  I pulled the trailer down to my home in the S.F. Bay area with no problems. My first purchase for my YJ when it finally arrived in mid November was a Tomken Machine bumper with a 2 inch receiver.  It is a well engineered bumper.  The trailer pulls great and I am in the process of completing some minor body work and giving it a paint job.  They are a well engineered trailer with a parking brake and the full pivet pintle eye.  I have been told that the springs, shocks and hubs are all interchangable with an M38A1, but I have not been able to confirm that.  I can confirm that I still get 20 mpg pulling it behind my Grand Caravan. I was back in Idaho Falls in early October.  Four trailers were parked in front.  I can’t remember the name of the surplus store, but I imagine that a call to Smitty’s Pancake house would get you their number.   It’s a long way from Georgia, but good luck. Bill

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Sorry if this is redeudant. I missed the ezrlier part of this thread. I can lead you to scads of 1/4 ton military jeep trailers. I got one myself with a surge break system (!) for the excellent price of $400. Best place to find dealers is Military Vehicles Magazine. See my earlier and I’ll send you the detalis on the mag and maybe a few dealer names. I am kicking myself for not jumping on a 3/4 ton with surge brakes for $850 a few months back, but storage and ready cash were a bit of a problem then. These things are dynamite-like having a pickup truck at your disposal with no holding costs and very minimal maintenence costs. Oh well, maybe in the future.

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By the way, I paid $325 for the trailer and $20 for a brand new spare tire on a rim at DRMO.

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Check with any local Air Force or Army base and ask for information on DRMO. They’ll know what your talking about. I bought mine up here in Alaska. I’m in the AF and this is where me and my friends got ours along with spare tires for the trailers. I’ve had mine for two years now and it’s still in good shape. It was made in 1964 and has a little rust but it’s only on the surface, it can be sanded off easily. They are excellent for towing off-road or on the highway. I can hardly tell that it’s behind me.

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Now that I nolonger have the luxury space of my Bronco with the Wrangler; I’m in the market for a new/used military jeep trailer. Does anyone know where I can purchase one?  The Army did away with the Jeep trailer when they went to the Hummer, so I know there has to be thousands of them out there somewhere. The local Army/Navy store had some well used ones a couple of years ago and was selling them for $350.00. I suspect with the rust and artic camo paint job that they came from some units in Alaska.  So, again, is there any outfit that sells new/used military Jeep trailers or similar ones here in the states?  TIA,  Dennis 4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4  Dennis Noes, 95 Jeep Wrangler 4.0L SE, Atlanta, GA.,USA  UNFWDA-SFWDA Four Wheel Drive Education Awareness Rep.  Member of United FWD Assoc., Southern 4WD Assoc.,  Tread Lightly and Georgia Bounty Runners 4WD Club 4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4

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So, again, is there any outfit that sells new/used military Jeep trailers or similar ones here in the states? TIA,

Dennis Hopefully some of these places may be able to help, check out our new Military Vehicle Digest as it develops online: http://www.4×44u.com/pub/k2/mvd/mvd.htm PS – Dennis, we’ve wanted one of those ourselves! Antelope Valley Equipment and Truck Parts 44532 Trevor Lancaster, CA 93534 (805) 945-6788 Sarafan Auto Supply 23 North Madison Ave. Springvalley, NY 10977 (914) 356-1080 Ordinance Unlimited 20945 Osborne St. Canoga Park, CA 91304 (818) 700-2905 Thomas W. Murry Box 214 Dover, DE  19903 (302) 736-1790 Brentmullins Jeep Parts PO Box 9599 College Station, TX 77842 (409) 690-0203 Frank’s Surplus PO Box 555 Bryn Athyn, PA 19009 (215) 947-5616 Military Vehicle Locator Service PO Box 1562 Fort Collins, CO 80522 (303) 221-4920 fax/phone Rapco Parts Co. (817) 872-2403 All American Military Goods 726 West Michigan PO Box 143 New Carlisle, IN  46552 (219) 654-8081 Army Jeep Parts PO Box 1006 Bristol, PA 19007 (215) 788-6012

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Try: U.S. Surplus Expediters PO Box 158 1000 East 1700 South Clearfield, UT  84015-0158 801-825-3489 They have numerous M-101 1/4 Ton trailers, some better than others, a couple were pretty cherry with little or no rust.  They also have some M-105 trailers, the larger ones with 110"x 83" ID on box, used with the deuce & 1/2, which have 9.00 x 20" Budd wheels, good for HUMMERs with a bit of lowering to get the pintle to match up and a new axle with electric brakes. Tell them I referred you. Also: Smith & Edwards Surplus 3936 N. Hiway 126 Ogden, UT 84404 801-731-1120 They have *acres* of trailers and old military surplus. Don’t buy one sight unseen unless you are willing to put up with rust, body damage, etc. and repair it.  Insist on pictures and serial number verification.  Better yet, grab a plane to Salt Lake and inspect it yourself, or hire me to go out and broker for you.  If you are *really* interested, let me know e-mail *this weekend*, as I am going out to Salt Lake on Sunday the 7th. I’m sure we can work something out as far as inspecting/brokering/shipping. Don’t know where you can get the even smaller M-100, which is the genuine "Jeep" trailer, but if you have an immediate need, I can check with a couple of sources.  The key is how much you are willing to pay, how fast you can jump on the deal, and how much you trust the dealer.   I got an absolutely cherry M-105 rebuilt and repainted in 1989 with *no* rust for $450, was quoted $450-650 on M-101’s, and once paid $2000 for an M-101 with HMMWV hubs and a hydraulic surge brake.  As you can see, quite a variance. Regards, — Scott Weiser P.S.  *Always* insist on proper title paperwork, with the proper signatures of the original purchaser at the government auction and the proper chain of title for each owner after. I bought a trailer with the "original" DRMO paperwork from a guy in California, only to find that the DRMO listed someone else, a guy in Utah for which my guy was selling the trailer, as the "owner of record", and Colorado refused to title the trailer, citing the "shadow ownership" as title fraud, a felony. I had to send the paperwork back to the guy I bought it from, pay sales tax in California (twice what I would have paid here), and pay for California plates and registration which I never used, all to get a valid California title which Colorado would accept when applying for re-titling in Colorado.  Cost me about $200 extra. Some states are not as rigid, but you’d better check *first* to see what you need in the way of title papers for an out-of-state purchase of surplus government vehicles.  Make proper titling part of the *written* sales agreement, so you have an out if you can’t get it titled for some reason. ****** "I love the Internet, I no longer have to depend upon my friends, family and co-workers, I can annoy people WORLDWIDE!" ****** The opinions expressed are my own.  If I was a laywer, you’d be paying big bucks for this.  All complaints should be

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Question:

I will be going to the the Gulf Coast of Florida (Fort Myers area, Captiva Island) to do some fishing in about a month and am looking for a good guide for some light tackle fly fishing.   Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.                                                         —Ken Ross

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I will be going to the the Gulf Coast of Florida (Fort Myers area, Captiva Island) to do some fishing in about a month and am looking for a good guide for some light tackle fly fishing.   Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

Call Dale Houchin 813-277-9409 Captain of the "Grand Slam" ….Light spinning and Fly If he is booked he can recommend someone

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If you go to Clearwater area (Homassassa Springs) Contact Captain Earl well but he worked hard trying to put me onto fish.  American Angler had article on redfish in July-October ‘88 issue if you can get your hands on it. Thats where I got Earls name. Its a beautiful area – and it’s Tarpon time! Good Luck IBFISHN (Rodney Bauch)

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Will be traveling in the vicinity of Greeneville, TN the 3rd week of June.  Will be introducing by father-in-law to fly fishing and would appreciate some help in locating areas that might be productive.  We’ll be visiting from California and would be happy to sway info on local hot spots. Thanks in advance.

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TRY GATLINBURG AREA FOR SOME GREAT FLY FISHIND—GREENBRIAR AREA …CADES COVE….ELKMONT….HAD SOME GREAT HATCHES…GOOD FISHING!!!!!

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Yes, Elkmont is a good spot.  Caught some nice browns there on a delta wing caddis, with olive body.  Nice fish!   A sunny day,      a box of midges,         and a wandering stream…   Man, this MUST be heaven!   <    Steve Kulpa    <<

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