Question:

New in Fish & Fly – the leading website dedicated to fly fishing in the UK & Europe – Dry Fly on buying a new rod – The Duffer talks about ‘trophy fish’ – The ‘hunting’ debate – National Trust publish angling guide – Ashima catalogue available NEW FEATURES… Dry Fly takes a look at purchasing a new rod and explains his passion for the rods made by Winston. http://www.fishandfly.co.uk/tackleroom/winston.html "I had simply caught my first fish on rod and fly on my own. It was no ‘Trophy’ trout but if I could have had it stuffed and mounted I would have, such was my pride " The Duffer on Fish of a Lifetime http://www.fishandfly.co.uk/bdedit0101.html THE HUNTING DEBATE… Charles Jardine’s statement on behalf of the Countryside Alliance’s Gone Fishing campaign started off the hunting/bloodsport debate again. Some of you feel that fishing will never be threatened as there are too many of us taking part – others aren’t so optimistic. Particularly interesting are responses posted by Arrogant Bee and Mark Powell. http://www.fishandfly.co.uk/dcforum/messageboard/1342.html Whatever your view it has become clear is that there is little point in us trying to convince each other that we’re ’safe’. All of us must make sure that we make our views felt. If nothing more I urge all of our visitors to make sure that they’re a member of at least one relevant body – be it the Countryside Alliance, Wild Trout Society, Salmon & Trout Association – the choice will depend on your own beliefs. But your subscription will make sure that somewhere down the line your view will be counted. LATEST NEWS… We’re not sure whether we can take any credit for this – but we’re pleased to announce that The National Trust will shortly be publishing ‘Enjoy Fishing with the National Trust’. http://www.fishandfly.co.uk/news.html OUR SPONSORS… We’re pleased to welcome Ashima as a Fish & Fly sponsor – and you can apply online for a free sticker & catalogue pack covering the full range of fly tying hooks, lines and leaders… http://www.fishandfly.co.uk/ashima.html Look forward to seeing you at Fish & Fly soon, Regards, Simon Lewin http://www

Response:

[snip] – The Duffer talks about ‘trophy fish’

Hey Louie, How long have you been writing

Response:

Question:

What’s the most expesive fly you’ve ever bought? I mean a fly that you’ve actually used; not some collector’s item salmon fly mounted in a frame that you hang on the wall. I’ll bet I can top it.

I dunno, I went into the Fishhawk in Atlanta a few years back to buy some BWO, came out with a cane rod and they gave me the flies for free, Does that count? Wayne Knight (remove nospam to respond via mail) Expert in the creation of  wind knots and tailing loops.

Response:

What’s the most expesive fly you’ve ever bought? I mean a fly that you’ve actually used; not some collector’s item salmon fly mounted in a frame that you hang on the wall. I’ll bet I can top it. I dunno, I went into the Fishhawk in Atlanta a few years back to buy some BWO, came out with a cane rod and they gave me the flies for free, Does that count?

It depends, Wayne. How many flies did they "give" you? You’d have to divide the cost of the rod by the number of flies, but then you’d still have the rod. So I guess is doesn’t count. Now if you actually wanted the flies but not the rod, and the only way they’d sell you the flies was with the rod … My most expensive fly was an ordinary beadhead nymph. I was fishing some high water in May, snagged it on the other side of the stream, and took a bath going to retrieve it, ruining the $600 camera I was foolishly carrying. I just got a digital camera but I don’t yet have a waterproof case. (Soon!) I won’t wade in more than 6" of water if I’m carrying it. — Those who say do not know; those who know do not say. — Lao Tsu, who must have been a fisherman. something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

my own slamon flies but a few I have bought.  I paid $95 for an Art Flick Cream Variant.  Looking back, I think I got soaked.  I have two Poul Jorgensen speys that I paid $60 for the both.  Mary Dette will sell you her dries & nymphs for $2.50 a piece yet.  Fran Betters will tie you on order for 2 bucks per fly.  I much prefer trading, though.  John Gierach has a "Trade Wind" that I tied, and in exchange I have two Labrador drakes, a hopper, and a stonefly.  He is actually a real good tier.  Ed Shenk has a Ruby butterfly of mine (probably in a desk drawer.)  My next target is Gary Lafontaine.  If anybody can give me his mailing address, can I have it?  He won’t answer my emails! Pete C

Response:

I have some gorilla charlies tied from fur gathered from a mature silvertip lowland gorilla by a zoo vet.  The were free but would probably be somewhat difficult  to replace.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What’s the most expesive fly you’ve ever bought? I mean a fly that you’ve actually used; not some collector’s item salmon fly mounted in a frame that you hang on the wall. I’ll bet I can top it. — Those who say do not know; those who know do not say. — Lao Tsu, who must have been a fisherman. something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

______  In this case, it isn’t a question of ‘expensive’ even though a dry fly tied by George Harvey is now going for $125 each.  There is a limited number of these jewels of dry fly perfection in THIS MANS remaining lifetime.  No George is still with us, (Thank You Lord!) but the fact remains, he is probably ‘thee’ premier dry fly tier in the world.  With eye sight failing, George (The Dry Fly Man) Harvey probably ties the best dry flies in the world.  There is no one his equal or superior.  He is an icon of ‘the craft.’   I can tie dry flies nearly as nice as George Harvey’s but I had tying lessons by  him and I was a very inattentive student.  I watched HOW he USED his hands, his fingers, his wrists.  I spent hours watching him, right by his side in many Eastern Fly Tying Shows.  To watch George tie just ONE FLY is enough information to turn on six more light bulbs in ones head.  It isn’t so much the things you remember but the many little things you miss.  The subtitles, the way the feathers are placed, a dozen things slips by even an experts eye.  One has to see him tie more than one, to get it right. The fact is, a George Harvey tied dry fly is worth more than just money.  I have several dozen of these flies which I have paid George a small fortune for.  He chuckles at my sincerity regarding his value to the world of Fly Fishing.  Those flies are now sitting in a safe.  The question is, would anyone here fish with one of these flies AFTER paying $125 or more for one? I would.  In fact, I do.  They sit on the water, like magic.  He sits on my shoulder watching the drift.   And the trout cometh. Mr. G.   ‘all’s fair with fur or feather’ http://216.55.26.157/vchat/   http://www.gink.com http://www.rodbuilding.com (Bamboo Is Fun) http://www.xink.com 509-243-4100 or 5500

Question:

Has anyone any experience flyfishing in Puerto Penasco(Rocky Point), Sonora?  Is it worth a trip from Phoenix? Thanks. Mike Jarvis

Response:

Not much personal experience I do know the Desert Flycasters usually take a trip once a year to fish sea trout in the estuaries.  Usually in Nov, / Dec.  I believe any sardine / anchovy type streamer should work. My experience was with spinning using small spoons.  I caught a variety of fish, some I couldn’t identify. I have heard of some brave hearted fellows flyfishing off pelican point in float tubes for trigger fish.  Don’t get caught in the current – could be a long swim to shore. — William Endicott – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone any experience flyfishing in Puerto Penasco(Rocky Point), Sonora?  Is it worth a trip from Phoenix? Thanks. Mike Jarvis

Response:

Question:

Uh-Oh…I think someone just turned on the heater it’s starting to get hot in here….. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – To all sponsoring and/or midwiving the BASTARD: The news surrounding the birth of the BASTARD is nothing short of fantastic. As a fan of split-cane rods, I salute these efforts and think everyone should have the chance to own and fish a properly tooled and crafted cane rod.  So what about the BASTARD?  Does anyone out there really think that a split-cane rod can be produced for $300???!!!  HELLO?!  ARE WE ALL THAT DELUDED??!!?? Cane hex blanks alone wholesale for over $200 and quadrates are double that. But the BASTARDS will be made from cheap cane in a no-nonsense fashion, as if a BLANK has any nonsense. Cheap cane is cheap because it is covered either with water marks or grower’s marks.  I know, I know…the BASTARD aesthetic is not concerned with aesthetics.  But grower’s marks typically go through the enamel and sever the power bundles.  Yes, this effects casting, noticeably.  Really.  Cane costs could be reduced by making one-tip rods, but that cuts the life of the BASTARD in half. What about the tapers?  Initially, it would be easy enough to sell only one taper/length in each line weight; there are plenty of tapers out on the web. But soon customers won’t be so patient.  You’ll need more.  That means taking the time to reset you planing forms and triple-check the depth.  Then you’ll have to test out guide spacing on each different taper.  Time, time. What about tooling?  To put up with the rigors of production, you’ll have to get decent tooling.  Your cheapest tools will be your planing forms (~$800 for one that will last) and planes (at least four; as much as you want them to be, but don’t skimp on the blades).  Don’t forget your beveler and binder which together go for the price of a year’s tuition at an Ivy-league school.  A good depth guage is a car payment.  And don’t forget your wrapper, whipping thread, sock, tube…  To keep costs down I guess you don’t have to worry about the finish, just use tung-oil.  Then you don’t need varnish, dip-tanks, color-preserver, or any of that.  But tung-oil rods *often* won’t last a half of a decade. What about hardware?  Snakes and tip-tops are no big deal, but forget about the agate (or even agatine) stripper.  If you find a good agate stripper for less than $30, then you haven’t found agate. (Doesn’t sound like much, but that’s already 10% of your rod.)  To keep costs down, what’s wrong with SiC? Hook-keepers?  Anyone who’s read Garrison knows that American cane rod-makers don’t use hook-keepers.  It’s called a stripping guide. Yup.  Saved money there.  Reel seats?  Forget fancy, how about alder?  Don’t even get me started on ferrules. If you can somehow get all the above costs diffused through an enormous production run so that they retail for under $500, you still haven’t paid you labor.  Even if it’s a labor force of one, Mr. G, he’ll need to eat once in a while.  Hobbyists can finish a cane rod in about 40-50 man-hours.  Custom rods from the 30 or so who make cane rods for a living (full-time) take about 80-100 man-hours.  These folks probably want to charge a little more than minimum wage. There are reasons that cane rods cost as much as they do, and there are reasons that the many attempts to produce low-cost cane rods in the last 30 years have failed.  What you get in a properly made and well-crafted cane rod is not only a superior fishing instrument, but a piece of American history. The cane-rod industry is one of the last in this country that consists of independent artisans who apprentice under masters and continue to improve upon the tradition.  If you read up on the history of cane-rods you’ll notice that even though split-cane and greenheart originated in the UK, the modern tradition of split-cane rods is American and any reputable rod-maker can trace his apprenticeship back to a 19th century master.  Yes, they still cost a lot, but if you ever talk to a full-time rod-maker (at the FFF or somewhere) you’ll see that no one gets rich making rods, they do because they love it. And finally…Is there a real difference between cane and graphite or glass? Well, is there a difference between an Aston-Martin and a Geo?  or is there a difference between Night Train and the Famous Grouse?  Both cars will get you where you want to go and both drinks will eventually get you drunk, but I guess it depends on how you want to get there.  Maybe a better analogy is shaving with garden-shears or a straight razor.  One is clumsy and potentially painful and the other, with a little practice, is an instrument of precision and tradition that is a pleasure to use and surpasses all. If you decide to get a split-cane rod, get the right one for the right reasons.  Don’t get any old BASTARD because it is cheap.  Perhaps the BASTARD will be the rod that will change the ff-ing world.  Perhaps not.  But at least talk to a cane rod-maker (check out the cane Rodmakers page at http://home1.gte.net/jfoster/index.htm) to see what kind of rod they can make you and what their rods can do over a production rod. Oh, but I doubt any of of those rodmakers would be able to seel you a Marryat reel.  Tough luck. The Tonkin Kid

Response:

To all sponsoring and/or midwiving the BASTARD:

and George began his reply: ______ That is me, "tonkin kid".  Talk to me.  I’m the man.  I’m the uno numeruno Bastard you need to address yourself too.  Now then?  You were saying?

(remainder of repartee snipped, in my never-ceasing attempt to save band-width) Go get’em George.  We can’t have these blithering naysayers ruining our fun. Mark Faulkner

Response:

‘kid,’ is licking his wounds.  He will heal though and will come back to try to learn  more about us. O.G.O

Response:

Tonkin Kid, I think you should change your name to "The Foolium Kid". 1. Do you know what the price of a bundle of Tonkin cane is. 2. Do you know the average number of good culms in a bundle of Tonkin cane? 3. Do you know how many rods with extra tips can be built with one culm? 4. Do you know how many strips a man using power tools can plain in a day? 5. Do you know how many blanks one man can finish in a day? 4. Do you know what the mark up is on a bamboo rod? I don’t know where you buy your hardware and materials but you won’t ever find me there.  I have seen figures just like yours trying to justify the cost of graphite rods also, but you should peddle your foolium elsewhere, I am not in the market. Ernie Harrison

Response:

To all sponsoring and/or midwiving the BASTARD: The news surrounding the birth of the BASTARD is nothing short of fantastic. As a fan of split-cane rods, I salute these efforts and think everyone should have the chance to own and fish a properly tooled and crafted cane rod.  So what about the BASTARD?  Does anyone out there really think that a split-cane rod can be produced for $300???!!!  HELLO?!  ARE WE ALL THAT DELUDED??!!?? Cane hex blanks alone wholesale for over $200 and quadrates are double that. But the BASTARDS will be made from cheap cane in a no-nonsense fashion, as if a BLANK has any nonsense.   Cheap cane is cheap because it is covered either with water marks or grower’s marks.  I know, I know…the BASTARD aesthetic is not concerned with aesthetics.  But grower’s marks typically go through the enamel and sever the power bundles.  Yes, this effects casting, noticeably.  Really.  Cane costs could be reduced by making one-tip rods, but that cuts the life of the BASTARD in half. What about the tapers?  Initially, it would be easy enough to sell only one taper/length in each line weight; there are plenty of tapers out on the web. But soon customers won’t be so patient.  You’ll need more.  That means taking the time to reset you planing forms and triple-check the depth.  Then you’ll have to test out guide spacing on each different taper.  Time, time. What about tooling?  To put up with the rigors of production, you’ll have to get decent tooling.  Your cheapest tools will be your planing forms (~$800 for one that will last) and planes (at least four; as much as you want them to be, but don’t skimp on the blades).  Don’t forget your beveler and binder which together go for the price of a year’s tuition at an Ivy-league school.  A good depth guage is a car payment.  And don’t forget your wrapper, whipping thread, sock, tube…  To keep costs down I guess you don’t have to worry about the finish, just use tung-oil.  Then you don’t need varnish, dip-tanks, color-preserver, or any of that.  But tung-oil rods *often* won’t last a half of a decade. What about hardware?  Snakes and tip-tops are no big deal, but forget about the agate (or even agatine) stripper.  If you find a good agate stripper for less than $30, then you haven’t found agate. (Doesn’t sound like much, but that’s already 10% of your rod.)  To keep costs down, what’s wrong with SiC? Hook-keepers?  Anyone who’s read Garrison knows that American cane rod-makers don’t use hook-keepers.  It’s called a stripping guide. Yup.  Saved money there.  Reel seats?  Forget fancy, how about alder?  Don’t even get me started on ferrules. If you can somehow get all the above costs diffused through an enormous production run so that they retail for under $500, you still haven’t paid you labor.  Even if it’s a labor force of one, Mr. G, he’ll need to eat once in a while.  Hobbyists can finish a cane rod in about 40-50 man-hours.  Custom rods from the 30 or so who make cane rods for a living (full-time) take about 80-100 man-hours.  These folks probably want to charge a little more than minimum wage. There are reasons that cane rods cost as much as they do, and there are reasons that the many attempts to produce low-cost cane rods in the last 30 years have failed.  What you get in a properly made and well-crafted cane rod is not only a superior fishing instrument, but a piece of American history. The cane-rod industry is one of the last in this country that consists of independent artisans who apprentice under masters and continue to improve upon the tradition.  If you read up on the history of cane-rods you’ll notice that even though split-cane and greenheart originated in the UK, the modern tradition of split-cane rods is American and any reputable rod-maker can trace his apprenticeship back to a 19th century master.  Yes, they still cost a lot, but if you ever talk to a full-time rod-maker (at the FFF or somewhere) you’ll see that no one gets rich making rods, they do because they love it. And finally…Is there a real difference between cane and graphite or glass? Well, is there a difference between an Aston-Martin and a Geo?  or is there a difference between Night Train and the Famous Grouse?  Both cars will get you where you want to go and both drinks will eventually get you drunk, but I guess it depends on how you want to get there.  Maybe a better analogy is shaving with garden-shears or a straight razor.  One is clumsy and potentially painful and the other, with a little practice, is an instrument of precision and tradition that is a pleasure to use and surpasses all. If you decide to get a split-cane rod, get the right one for the right reasons.  Don’t get any old BASTARD because it is cheap.  Perhaps the BASTARD will be the rod that will change the ff-ing world.  Perhaps not.  But at least talk to a cane rod-maker (check out the cane Rodmakers page at http://home1.gte.net/jfoster/index.htm) to see what kind of rod they can make you and what their rods can do over a production rod. Oh, but I doubt any of of those rodmakers would be able to seel you a Marryat reel.  Tough luck.   The Tonkin Kid

Response:

To all sponsoring and/or midwiving the BASTARD:

______ That is me, "tonkin kid".  Talk to me.  I’m the man.  I’m the uno numeruno Bastard you need to address yourself too.  Now then?  You were saying? Oh?  By the way – Refer to me from now on as "O.G.O." The news surrounding the birth of the BASTARD is nothing short of fantastic.

As a fan of split-cane rods, I salute these efforts and think everyone should have the chance to own and fish a properly tooled and crafted cane rod.  So what about the BASTARD?

dense quality Imported Just For this bastard. Does anyone out there really think that a split-cane rod can be produced for $300???!!!

HELLO?!  ARE WE ALL THAT DELUDED??!!??

Cane hex blanks alone wholesale for over $200 and quadrates are double that.

But the BASTARDS will be made from cheap cane in a no-nonsense fashion, as if a BLANK has any nonsense.

more careful on who you’re talking too here ‘tonkin kid’.  Is that it?  "Tonkin Kid?"  Are you saying you have the market cornered on cheap bamboo?  Sorry.  We don’t want any. Cheap cane is cheap because it is covered either with water marks or grower’s marks.  I know, I know…the BASTARD aesthetic is not concerned with aesthetics.

BASTARD BAMBOO FLY ROD.  This fly fishing world is ready for a Beautiful Bastard – and this is it.  In fact, you’re beginning to qualify for one. But grower’s marks typically go through the enamel and sever the power bundles.  Yes, this effects casting, noticeably.  Really.  Cane costs could be reduced by making one-tip rods, but that cuts the life of the BASTARD in half.

equate your kind of foolishness with a high quality BASTARD FLY ROD.  "Don’t Tread On Me Dude"  Just might become a Bastard Model.  Thank goodness, nothing you’ve said so far applies to a BASTARD FLY ROD.  "Half Life," looks more promising to the "tonkin kid," buddy.  Where do you get off making such outlandish statements and lies?  Do you work for Bill Clinton? What about the tapers?

Initially, it would be easy enough to sell only one taper/length in each line weight; there are plenty of tapers out on the web.

But soon customers won’t be so patient.

You’ll need more.  That means taking the time to reset you planing forms and triple-check the depth.  Then you’ll have to test out guide spacing on each different taper.  Time, time.

BASTARD BAMBOO FLY ROD.  Like I said.  I’m rich. What about tooling?  To put up with the rigors of production, you’ll have to get decent tooling.

tooling is the best in the world.  Do you want to come and work for me? Your cheapest tools will be your planing forms (~$800 for one that will last) and planes (at least four; as much as you want them to be, but don’t skimp on the blades).  Don’t forget your beveler and binder which together go for the price of a year’s tuition at an Ivy-league school.  A good depth guage is a car payment.  And don’t forget your wrapper, whipping thread, sock, tube…  To keep costs down I guess you don’t have to worry about the finish, just use tung-oil.  Then you don’t need varnish, dip-tanks, color-preserver, or any of that.  But tung-oil rods *often* won’t last a half of a decade.

shop.  Everything is free except raw materials.  You need to get your planing forms from someone that doesn’t screw you all the time, kid.  It was "kid" – right? What about hardware?  Snakes and tip-tops are no big deal, but forget about the agate (or even agatine) stripper.  If you find a good agate stripper for less than $30, then you haven’t found agate. (Doesn’t sound like much, but that’s already 10% of your rod.)  To keep costs down, what’s wrong with SiC? Hook-keepers?  Anyone who’s read Garrison knows that American cane rod-makers don’t use hook-keepers.  It’s called a stripping guide. Yup.  Saved money there.  Reel seats?  Forget fancy, how about alder?  Don’t even get me started on ferrules.

have too but, I will admit I’d rather just buy them ready made.  You’re down to nickle/dime stuff.  Hardware.  No mystery in hardware.  If we can’t buy it at a price that is fair, we will make it right here. Kid, you just don’t know what the hell  you’re talking about.  If we can build it cheaper, guess what the choice is going to be? If you can somehow get all the above costs diffused through an enormous production run so that they retail for under $500, you still haven’t paid you labor.  Even if it’s a labor force of one, Mr. G, he’ll need to eat once in a while.  Hobbyists can finish a cane rod in about 40-50 man-hours.  Custom rods from the 30 or so who make cane rods for a living (full-time) take about 80-100 man-hours.  These folks probably want to charge a little more than minimum wage.

person operation.  Automation on as much as is possible is guaranteed.  Those ‘full time’ rod makers have to cut the vacations and coffee breaks pal. I just love it when all these losers keep equating how others should run their businesses.  Has anyone latched onto that yet?  "Welllllllll?"  They think.  If it takes ME 100 hours to make a bamboo fly rod, that means its going to take you 100 hours too." wrong! There are reasons that cane rods cost as much as they do, and there are reasons that the many attempts to produce low-cost cane rods in the last 30 years have failed.  What you get in a properly made and well-crafted cane rod is not only a superior fishing instrument, but a piece of American history. The cane-rod industry is one of the last in this country that consists of independent artisans who apprentice under masters and continue to improve upon the tradition.  If you read up on the history of cane-rods you’ll notice that even though split-cane and greenheart originated in the UK, the modern tradition of split-cane rods is American and any reputable rod-maker can trace his apprenticeship back to a 19th century master.  Yes, they still cost a lot, but if you ever talk to a full-time rod-maker (at the FFF or somewhere) you’ll see that no one gets rich making rods, they do because they love it.

BASTARDS. And finally…Is there a real difference between cane and graphite or glass?

_______Well, gee?  I don’t know?  Is there a difference between land and water? The moon and the sun?  Your wife as compared to mine?  Golfing in the middle of a street and a fairway?  You tell us kid.  This is a heavy question. Well, is there a difference between an Aston-Martin and a Geo?  or is there a difference between Night Train and the Famous Grouse?  Both cars will get you where you want to go and both drinks will eventually get you drunk, but I guess it depends on how you want to get there.  Maybe a better analogy is shaving with garden-shears or a straight razor.  One is clumsy and potentially painful and the other, with a little practice, is an instrument of precision and tradition that is a pleasure to use and surpasses all.

qualified.  Park it dude.  Your engine is racing but your tires are standing still.  All this has NOTHING to do with   BASTARD FLY RODS.  You have not one, single, base point to stand on.  You are just (to be perfectly frank) a baseless opinion.  A noise.  A silent fart in church.  You are way off base on nearly everything.  But!  That is okay.  We get them like you here all the time.  We just need to soften you up a little and get you drunk a time or two.  We might even teach you how to be a success.  Here, anything is possible.  Even for you kid. If you decide to get a split-cane rod, get the right one for the right reasons.  Don’t get any old BASTARD because it is cheap.

pine tree all the time?  Just LISTEN to yourself!  Quote:  "Don’t get any old BASTARD because it is cheap."  Well, there are no other BASTARDS and these are not old.  Right away, you make yourself out an idiot of principle, ‘kid’. This also isn’t ANY old BASTARD.  That is another mistake.  It is my BASTARD FLY ROD COMPANY and you have NO RIGHT to say or ASSUME the things you’re doing here . . . kid. (God, I love this place!) Perhaps the BASTARD

‘hope’ for ‘the kid.’  What do you guys think?  Is he or is not ‘the kid’ qualifying as a real bastard who should own a bastard? will be the rod that will change the ff-ing world.

life.  How do we know?  Because you’re HERE!  It is everyone’s pleasure to meet a cynic such as  yourself.  You

… read more »

Response:

Question:

How often should you change your line.  Mine has been on a year but does not seemed damaged. — Praise God for the changing of the seasons; Baseball to Football, Fishing to Hunting.

Response:

I say that you should change your line when it wears out and loses floatability or, er… sinkability (?). Bryce Carron Rockford, Tn – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -How often should you change your line.  Mine has been on a year but does not seemed damaged.

Response:

if it splashes down when casting, is cracked or sinks, get a new one

Response:

How often should you change your line.  Mine has been on a year but does not seemed damaged. — Praise God for the changing of the seasons; Baseball to Football, Fishing to Hunting.

Hi All, Some lucky suckers get to fish every day, so they might get a new line every season. Other get out an average amount and need a line in 3 to 5 years. Some poor guys never get to go and their lines are still great after 20 years in the closet. You can usually tell by looking at the finish. If it looks like it is cracking or is sinking after it is cleaned and dressed, it is probably worn out. The top fly lines are still only $50. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

Response:

How often should you change your line.  Mine has been on a year but does not seemed damaged.

The easy answer is when it wears out.  The line will get stiff and crack, or start sinking when it wears out and then you should replace it.  I replace mine about once a year, most people replace theirs every 3 to 5 years.  If you don’t use it much it will last much longer if you keep it out of the sun and heat. Also, "cracking the whip" with your fly line will not only lose a lot of flies, but cause your line to crack and wear out prematurely.                                    Hope this helps,                                           Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools Mt. Shasta Fly Fishing Schools http://www.thegrid.net/flyfish

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If I replace mine every time it splashes down while casting I’d need a new one every couple of casts.             Jim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – if it splashes down when casting, is cracked or sinks, get a new one

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I’m new to fly fishing and have just recently purchased my own equipment instead of using someone else’s.  could you tell me how this line is supposed to go?  Is it backing – line- leader- tippet?  If so how much leader and how much tippet.  I fish in Arkansas rivers (mostly the White and the Buffalo). Thanks, Alan Edwards

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I’m new to fly fishing and have just recently purchased my own equipment instead of using someone else’s.  could you tell me how this line is supposed to go?  Is it backing – line- leader- tippet?  If so how

Yes "backing – line- leader- tippet" and then: Leaders for beginners should usually be about 9 feet. The tippet is simply the finest part of the leader next to the hook.  Rough guideline:  3x tippet = 0.008" suits #12 hook                          4x            007"       #16 and similarly up and down.  You need to replace the tippet when (after changing flies) it gets too short or too thick. New tippets should be roughly 18" inches (less if your dry fly does not "turn over" neatly, longer for more delicate touchdowns etc.)   Backing is measured last, so as to fill up the reel, without squashing the line, once everything is unspooled and respooled the right way.  A filled reel reduces line curl (and provides extra insurance if you hook a bigger fish than expected.) — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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Question:

Anyone have any good/simple receipes for trout.

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To prepare my catch, I say, "O.K. fishhie, now that the fun’s over I’m gonna put you back now.  (Pop, hook slides out)  There you go. See you later." I think I prepared it for release rather well, wouldn’t you say? Oh, I’m sorry.  That wasn’t what you meant, was it. JB

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To prepare my catch, I say, "O.K. fishhie, now that the fun’s over I’m gonna put you back now.  (Pop, hook slides out)  There you go. See you later." I think I prepared it for release rather well, wouldn’t you say? Oh, I’m sorry.  That wasn’t what you meant, was it. JB To prepare mine, I gut ‘em and cook ‘em. I got a good recipie but its secret. Sorry. Bryce P.S. I keep the keepers and throw back only those that are too small or when i don’t have access to a skillet.

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Anyone have any good/simple receipes for trout.

tough to beat butter/salt/pepper in foil over the coals. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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Those of you who remember the Don Zahner – Dorset, VT era of Fly Fisherman magaine may recall the letter that came in from a proud MD, who after numerous tries, had developed the precise dilute water/Valium solution to be sprayed from an old Sinex bottle along a trout’s lateral line so as to stun the fish long enough to effect a gentle release, but not strong enough to anesthesize it permanently.  To this day, I wonder if somebody on staff didn’t stay up all night with a bottle of Virginia Gentleman and dream this up.  You know, kinda the same way O’Donahue and O’Roarke used to write the Lampoon…

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Went fly fishing and caught a lot of flies.  My question is how do you prepare them?  Should you leave the wings on or remove them? smoke ‘em. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

How do you keep ‘em from wriggling out of the rolling paper before lighting? Mike

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tough to beat butter/salt/pepper in foil over the coals. — TimW

Here is the best breakfast available. You will need 2 eggs, 2 12 inch trout gutted, mashed potatoes, sour cream, and tamatoes. Fry the trout in butter, no spices. Mix some sour cream with the mashed potatoes and make potatoe pancakes. Cook your eggs however you like ‘em. Slice the tomatoe and eat. You can use mashed potatoe mix and cook in a skillet on an open fire at the stream. There is one advantage to stream cooking- if you catch a female trrout, you can put the roe in the eggs when you scramble ‘em and its a delicacy. Don’t try it with fryed eggs. Bryce

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Went fly fishing and caught a lot of flies.  My question is how do you prepare them?  Should you leave the wings on or remove them? smoke ‘em. — TimW Halfordian Golfer How do you keep ‘em from wriggling out of the rolling paper before lighting? Mike

Ever heard of flypaper?

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Mike Uetz said: Moe Skeeter said: [some deleted] smoke ‘em. How do you keep ‘em from wriggling out of the rolling paper before lighting?

… a little gink holds ‘em in place… TimW

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Went fly fishing and caught a lot of flies.  My question is how do you prepare them?  Should you leave the wings on or remove them?

Well, when I was working in the uplands of Cameroon we used to eat flying ants and locusts just as they are. No preparation needed. Stir fry them. Locust was my favourite. You just eat the body not the wings which fall off when cooking anyway. Taste and texture a bit like peanut butter (crunchy type). Yumm yumm. Pete Marrow   work:  http://www.gsrg.nmh.ac.uk/   play:  http://www.gorp.com/gorp/activity/scottish_ff_faq.htm

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Went fly fishing and caught a lot of flies.  My question is how do you prepare them?  Should you leave the wings on or remove them?

Be a MAN ! Eat em raw !!!! — "All is well as ends better" Brian Di Carlo

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Went fly fishing and caught a lot of flies.  My question is how do you prepare them?  Should you leave the wings on or remove them? Leave the wings, they fry up real crisp and tasty. Plus…Those wings will spread when done providing a super lil’ handle!!

Kinda like Butterfly Shrimp?

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Went fly fishing and caught a lot of flies.  My question is how do you prepare them?  Should you leave the wings on or remove them?

smoke ‘em. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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Went fly fishing and caught a lot of flies.  My question is how do you prepare them?  Should you leave the wings on or remove them? Leave the wings, they fry up real crisp and tasty.

Plus…Those wings will spread when done providing a super lil’ handle!!

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Went fly fishing and caught a lot of flies.  My question is how do you prepare them?  Should you leave the wings on or remove them?

I usually remove the wings first.  Otherwise the wings tend to get crisp & hard and stick in between your teeth like popcorn.                                    8^                                     Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

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It depends on what you caught.  I usually steak the big dragon flies, while I just gut the smaller gnats and mosquitos and fry them whole. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Went fly fishing and caught a lot of flies.  My question is how do you prepare them?  Should you leave the wings on or remove them? I usually remove the wings first.  Otherwise the wings tend to get crisp & hard and stick in between your teeth like popcorn.                                    8^                                     Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

– Please remove the X in my email address to respond.

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Went fly fishing and caught a lot of flies.  My question is how do you prepare them?  Should you leave the wings on or remove them?

I like to remove the wings first it makes it a lot easier to fillet them. Regards, Steve

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Went fly fishing and caught a lot of flies.  My question is how do you prepare them?  Should you leave the wings on or remove them?

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Went fly fishing and caught a lot of flies.  My question is how do you prepare them?  Should you leave the wings on or remove them?

Leave the wings, they fry up real crisp and tasty.

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Question:

If you leave them outside in a worm box, watch out for ants, they will go for the dead ones and really take over the whole box. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why your yard ? Wait till the rain falls and the temp. is about 54-56 deg. Go out in a neighborhood that doesn’t have curbs and pick them up off the street NEAR the edge of the grass. Put them in the fridge (about 45-50 deg.) in a container of damp (use rain water)buss bedding (wal-mart) and they will keep for weeks.(pick out the dead ones once in a while)..Enjoy                                                                       SuqRivGui                                                       Allen

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got a old crank telephone and some wire and a couple of long rods???…use your imagination and wear rubber boots and gloves.be sure to go when it is wet .  they can jump about 2-3′ so cath them in a bucket as they fall.  no mess. It also help to read any storey about Mark Twain to them exactually 34 minutes before cranking the phone..  

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I have heard of a few things to gather earthworms. {snip} Oh, there is one more way.  Lay in the yard and make a sound like an apple.

EXCELLENT!!!! Seriously, I can’t stop laughing!!! Remember: a bad day of fishing is better than a good day at work!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Once you have gone fishing, put the extra worms in a flower bed, or in your garden.  They will help the soil, and soon, you will have a reliable source of wigglies.  Don’t poison them with insecticides of fertilizer, though. Steve, the DsrtTravlr

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try a 5 gallon bucket of soapy water on damp ground that you know contains crawlers 10–15 minutes should have all you need.

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conesus lake (finger lakes region) $500/week see http://members.aol.com/cobbshill/cottage.html for details http://members.aol.com/cobbshill

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At dusk just put the sprinkler on in the front yard,  let it run for an hour or two, until the ground is soaked.  After dark turn it off, get your flashlight and pail and go pick them up.  Because of the water in the ground they will be lying right on top.  It works like a charm in my yard although it is kinda of a muddy procedure.  Good luck.. Lorry…….I fish, therefore I am

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I am really intersted in trying to catch my own nite crawlers in my yard.  I’ve heard of sticking a pitch fork in the ground and wiggling it, watering the lawn, and a lot of other things, but from your personell experiences, what is the best way to get them?  Oh yeah, what is a GRUNT WORM?  Are they in Michigan or what?  And one more thing, besides this one, what is another good fishing newsgroup?  Thanks so much, talk to you later!

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I am really intersted in trying to catch my own nite crawlers in my yard.  I’ve heard of sticking a pitch fork in the ground and wiggling it, watering the lawn, and a lot of other things, but from your personell experiences, what is the best way to get them?  Oh yeah, what is a GRUNT WORM?  Are they in Michigan or what?  And one more thing, besides this one, what is another good fishing newsgroup?  Thanks so much, talk to you later!

Hi Matt, If you have them in your yard it won’t be hard. Some people use electricity to get them out, but it can be a little dangerous. We went out at night with a can or bag and a little flashlight in our mouth on our hands and knees. You would see the night crawlers shin and then just grab them. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

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I am really intersted in trying to catch my own nite crawlers in my yard.  I’ve heard of sticking a pitch fork in the ground and wiggling it, watering the lawn, and a lot of other things, but from your personell experiences, what is the best way to get them?  Oh yeah, what is a GRUNT WORM?  Are they in Michigan or what?  And one more thing, besides this one, what is another good fishing newsgroup?  Thanks so much, talk to you later!

I always liked catching night crawlers in Upstate Ny.  The night dew would usually bring them out.  You can find them just about everywhere, especially in gardens and flower beds. Alos, you need to wear sneakers and walk very lightly.  When you grab one, do not pull too hard or it will break off.  I first just stop it from going back in, and then pull gently straight up or at the angle of the hole.  Usually can get about 12 dozen in about 2 hours.   You can keep them easily enough, too.  We would buy the worm bedding, or mix some dirt with moist dead leaves.  Keep them in a large container in the basement where it is always cool and damp.  They’ll keep all summer, and will even reproduce. Good hunting, Joe

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I have heard of a few things to gather earthworms. One is electricity.  It is hazardous. Alternating current worm getters were sold, and then recalled when people ended up laying in the grass and writhing along with the worms.  I have heard that the current from a battery charger will work.  With any electricity, you have to be very careful.   Grunting for worms is when you take two thin pieces of wood about 2-3 feet long.  Originally, they used two barrel staves.  One was held with one hand pushing it down into the ground.  The other stave was raked across the one in the ground with a violin bow motion making a "grunting" noise. The frequency of the sounds would cause the worms to become uncomfortable, and they would come to the surface.   I have also heard that spraying a light bleach solution on grass makes them come out.  Don’t know what it does to the yard. I think that the time of day has a lot to do with gathering worms, with the evening and very early morning hours being the best.  I have had good success after a rain, too.   Oh, there is one more way.  Lay in the yard and make a sound like an apple. Once you have gone fishing, put the extra worms in a flower bed, or in your garden.  They will help the soil, and soon, you will have a reliable source of wigglies.  Don’t poison them with insecticides of fertilizer, though. Steve, the DsrtTravlr

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I am really intersted in trying to catch my own nite crawlers in my yard. —  Thanks so much, talk to you later!

Find and get a product called "Worm-Up"  Believe me this stuff really works, is harmless both to the worms and your yard and you’ll get all the "Dew Worms" (which is what your "nite crawler" is usually called in Ontario!!!) that you’ll ever need!! Just follow the package instructions and you can pick ‘em up right  off the top of the ground, in broad daylight!!!!  Even in places where you’d never expect to find ‘em, like an asphalt driveway, maybe? I don’t have any commercial interest in this product, but I got a sample package at the "Canadian Sportsman Show" many years ago and when I found it really worked I went and bought some more! "Le Baron’s" always carries it in Canada, anyway. Phil

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Why your yard ? Wait till the rain falls and the temp. is about 54-56 deg. Go out in a neighborhood that doesn’t have curbs and pick them up off the street NEAR the edge of the grass. Put them in the fridge (about 45-50 deg.) in a container of damp (use rain water)buss bedding (wal-mart) and they will keep for weeks.(pick out the dead ones once in a while)..Enjoy                                                                       SuqRivGui                                                       Allen

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Question:

Hi I’m sure you will get good answers from this group but I notice you are on AOL. Check the fishing reports at keyword FBN. That may help as well. Happy Holidays. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 materials catalog) http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

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The two bodies of water that I usually fish are the Rose River off of Skyline Drive and Mossy Creek in the Shenandoah Valley.  I’ve only fished dry flies and haven’t got the slightest idea on how to approach nymph fishing, for that matter what nymphs to fish.  I would venture to say that I’ve caught the bug and won’t let a little inclimate weather frighten me off.  Is this the right approach, or should I hang it up until the Spring?

No way, dude. When I lived in MD, I fished Big Hunting Creek in Thurmont 12 mos/yr. In fact, the bigest browns I caught in that great stream were both in Januarys.  Fished the typical nymphs: Hare’s Ear in brown and olive, Pheasant Tails, etc. Nothin fancy. Just fish ‘em deep with a sloooooow retrieve. I laid it right at the mouths of these fish and they couldn’t resist. Of course, when the water’s that cold, the fish aren’t very active, that is until they realize they have a hook in their kype. Another bennie: since you are a beginner (tho, who isn’t?), winter fishing gives you time to work on technique and most importantly, patience. Plus, there are fewer folks around to feel intimidated by. So stick with it. -cst

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Ditto CST–I’ll be on Big Hunting Creek tomorrow.  Nymphs are fine and streamers are also fine.  Nymph one way, then streamer yourself home.  I like a shockingly large brown or tan or olive and black bullet-head woolly bugger.  Big rainbows will eat those too;  and Mossy’s got some humongous brownies that love meat. Dave

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I’m somewhat of a novice at fly fishing, but I wanted to get some input from the more experienced fly fishermen concerning winter fishing.  I’ve done some reading on fishing in the winter, but wanted to be armed with a little more info before I head out to freeze. The two bodies of water that I usually fish are the Rose River off of Skyline Drive and Mossy Creek in the Shenandoah Valley.  I’ve only fished dry flies and haven’t got the slightest idea on how to approach nymph fishing, for that matter what nymphs to fish.  I would venture to say that I’ve caught the bug and won’t let a little inclimate weather frighten me off.  Is this the right approach, or should I hang it up until the Spring?

Dave, There’s also a free magazine which is available at most of the VA fly shops which will lead you to the right patterns year round, and offers tips on winter fishing techniques in our state. Look for it at Orvis shops, Harry Murray’s place and others. Keith in Waterford, VA

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Hey Dave,        I went on Christmas day to a small brook trout stream on Catoctin Mt. and used a size 16 unweighted hares ear, a small split shot and a piece of orvis clay strike indicator and caught brookies on the edge of flowing water. I was fighting to keep the guides clear of ice and there wasn’t any casting room but it was a lot of fun.(very light tackle).I used a dead drift in combination with a line hand gather retrieve. They seemed to be more ready to take on the retrieve than the drift. Just fish near flowing water not really in it. Good luck, John

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I’m somewhat of a novice at fly fishing, but I wanted to get some input from the more experienced fly fishermen concerning winter fishing.  I’ve done some reading on fishing in the winter, but wanted to be armed with a little more info before I head out to freeze.   The two bodies of water that I usually fish are the Rose River off of Skyline Drive and Mossy Creek in the Shenandoah Valley.  I’ve only fished dry flies and haven’t got the slightest idea on how to approach nymph fishing, for that matter what nymphs to fish.  I would venture to say that I’ve caught the bug and won’t let a little inclimate weather frighten me off.  Is this the right approach, or should I hang it up until the Spring?

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Question:

: On this, I’ve a buddy with a vest that’s got more pockets than : a billard hall and he can’t ever, not once, find anything. Louis,         Don’t ‘dis’ my hobby.  Some folks fish, some tie flies.  I spend hours filling and emptying the pockets of my vest.  Sometimes, I find things in there that I didn’t even remember I owned!  It is a truely fascination hobby! :^) Charley : — : ** : Louis Bignami, Publisher         http://www.finefishing.com : Fine Fishing Internet Magazine   :              "largest fishing mag on the Net" : **

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: On this, I’ve a buddy with a vest that’s got more pockets than : a billard hall and he can’t ever, not once, find anything. Louis,    Don’t ‘dis’ my hobby.  Some folks fish, some tie flies.  I spend hours filling and emptying the pockets of my vest.  Sometimes, I find things in there that I didn’t even remember I owned!  It is a truely fascination hobby! :^) Charley

I can relate to that.  I got a fly vest (Colombia I think) with so many pockets that I tend to stuff in so many things and the darn thing weigh so heavy that after 3 hours of fishing my back just could not handle the vest any more.  So I did what all married would do, I let my wife wear it.  ;-)) Steve – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : — : ** : Louis Bignami, Publisher         http://www.finefishing.com : Fine Fishing Internet Magazine   :              "largest fishing mag on the Net" : **

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In the spirit of fly tying and rod building, I would like to sew my own fisng vest (shortie).  Does anyone have experience with this?  How about a source for patterns? Thanks, Steve

I did this when I was a student trying to save money on my new hobby of FFing. I ripped the sleaves off an old shirt and sewed pockets made from pieces of old trousers onto it.  I still use it, and it works fine.  Buy some of that sew on velcro for pocket closures.  Get some large (saltwater size) snap swivels and sew them on for clips for stuff (remember to re-inforce the point where you sew them on if you don’t want them to pull through).  Good luck. . Lenny Bloksberg . .

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In the spirit of fly tying and rod building, I would like to sew my own fisng vest (shortie).  Does anyone have experience with this?  How about a source for patterns? Thanks, Steve

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Last time I wrote an article on kit garments, Frostline had a vest kit.  Since I don’t think adults should stash fish in their clothing, and I’m too stupid to remember what’s in what pocket, I’ve switched to cloth tackle creels and tote a mesh bag to stash the odd fish when I luck into one. If you insist on sewing your own you might take apart old vests.  I’m big on Velcro fasteners and a smaller number of pockets than usual.  I also fall down or in a lot, so favor a simple Stearns soft foam life vest. On this, I’ve a buddy with a vest that’s got more pockets than a billard hall and he can’t ever, not once, find anything. — ** Louis Bignami, Publisher         http://www.finefishing.com Fine Fishing Internet Magazine                "largest fishing mag on the Net" **

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Question:

Has nay of the national magazines had any reports about whirling disease? about eating Great Lakes fish. "In-Fisherman" provided some in-depth coverage, and was rewarded with the loss of over $250K of advertising revenue. "Outdoor Life", knowing which side its bread was buttered on, published a blistering editorial calling the advisory 16 kinds of crap. No loss of advertising for these pillars of journalistic integrity

  This may be true in the case of Outdoor Life, but not in the case of Fly Fisherman. I have been in touch with Dave Engerbretson, who often contributes to this group, and he informs me that John Randolph and John Holt are not only aware of the whirling disease issue, but are preparing a story. Keep in mind that glossy magazines are usually layed out and printed 3 or so issues in advance, and that the Madison River story broke less than a month ago. Why the Colorado story hasn’t received more press is a mystery. But it soon will.   Tim Walker recently sent me a zeroxed/faxed copy of an article that appeared in the Angling Report, summarizing recent whirling disease developments in Colorado. The news is very bad. Taken at face value, it appears there has been *no* natural reproduction of Rainbows, for three seasons now, in parts of the Colorado, Gunnison, South Platte and Arkansas rivers. How do *you* define disaster? The only good news I have heard yet, is that Cutthroats and Brookies are somewhat resistant, at least by comparison with Rainbows. —

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Peter – I suspect that you will get several responses to your post, and certainly some that are more scientific than I can be, so I will just reply briefly.  If, for some reason, you don’t get a fuller reply, send me a post and I will send more information. First, the disease is a neurological disorder that affects the fish’s system and causes it to swim in circles (thusthe name).   the fis weaken and ultimately fal prey to predators or other disease.  the disease is of no danger to humans if the fish are eaten.  there is not cure and probably got ito the Madison River from illegal stocking.  It can be transmitted on fishing gear, so there is a real risk of it spreading to other rivers. It is a very bad situation, but fortunatley does not affect the brown trout. The rainbow are most susceptible. again, if you do not get a better scientific description, let me know.  I have some materials that I can use to compose a longer post.                                               Dallas, TX                                               Ennis, MT

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This is far from scientific, but as far as I understand whirling disease, it’s parasitic infestation (whether a protozoan or worm, or other loathsome critter, I’m not sure) which lodges in the nerve/spinal column of the fish.  The beasties keep eating their way through (right into the brain, I’ve heard) until the fish is neurological/mental invalid.  The effect is particularly pronounced in fry and parr, leading to the classic symtpoms of swimming in erratic circles or "whirling."  By the time things get to that point, the fish is defenseless.  I’m not sure about the propagation cycle of the parasite. I think that it can be spread by ingestion, so if an adult gobbles up a fry that is addled with the disease, the parasite can spread to the adult.  What I do not remember is how the parasite propagates once the host is dead, assuming something does not ingest it. I do recall that on avergage 10% of a population will not be affected by the disease, but they could be carriers. It can strike older fish as well, but it takes much longer.  One reason the disease is particularly insidious (sp?) is that we notice the adults for the most part.  By the time an adult in the population is diagonosed with the condition, you’ve got one hell of a problem because odds are the disease has spread through the population.  The truly horrific part of it is that it tends to wipe out whole year classes, with a disproportionate effect on the fry and par.  So, if you you start seeing adults with the condition, the younger year classes, and therefore future populations, may be in very serious trouble. The spread of the disease is increases with higher water temperatures because the beasties become more active.  Last I heard, once there is an infestation, there is very little that can be done other than killing off the host population.  I don’t know if that is true. Illegally stocked fish are likely a principal source, but I don’t know how the parasite gets into the hatchery in the first instance. Rainbows are very susceptible.  Browns are not.  The disease is European and so are browns, who have developed a restisance.  So, expect to see a much higher percentage of browns caught on the Madison. That’s what I’ve heard, for what it’s worth.  If there’s a fisheries biologist out there, please set this straight if it’s wrong.  I hope I’m wrong about some of the nastier aspects, because it sounds like rather like a fish version of bubonic plague. John C. Crow

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I lived for 5 years in Bozeman in the 1980’s and loved fishing the Madison when I could.  I have just heard about this "whirling disease" phenomenon.  Can someone explain in a bit of scientific detail what it is?

For more than you probably want to know, search the Flyfishing archive at www.adp.unc.edu/cgi-bin/wais-flyfish-q using "whirling" as a key word. Phil Holt

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I’m not sure what this article stated, but I received a release from the New York DEC a couple of months ago indicating that Whirling disease had contaminated a hatchery in NY State. I don’t think many fish with Whirling disease were stocked, but it wiped out an entire hatchery. Forgive my ‘net ignorance; this information is certainly timely and quite important, so I’m willing to risk a little self-dignity to keep everyone informed. See you on the rivers! Dennis Suler, Jr Hackettstown, NJ Forbes Newspapers

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Whirlings disease is caused by a protozoan, that eats the cartilage around the equilibrium center in the fish.  It is deadly to fry and small fish, as stated before, but seems to have no effect on older fish.  If an older fish had it when it was young, you will often times find a sunken cranium, or deformed back.  Young fish that are infected often times also have a black tail.  Their is NO cure for it and the only way to get rid of it is to kill all the fish, sterilize (with some really potent chemicals) and start over, not a good thing for a stream, but it is required when a hatchery gets it.  Brown trout are susseptible to it, but they seem to have a better genetic defense of it, so it doean’t show up much in them. I hope this helps, I am not a fish biologist, but studiing to become one, I recently became interested in whirlings disease due to the outbreak of it in CO. Feel free to reply to me via email. Kevin — | ALL opinions |    OF COURSE I DID IT IN COLD BLOOD…..     | are mine,    |            I’M A POIKILOTHERM | Nobody else  |                                Kevin Case

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I lived for 5 years in Bozeman in the 1980’s and loved fishing the Madison when I could.  I have just heard about this "whirling disease" phenomenon.  Can someone explain in a bit of scientific detail what it is?

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The only good news I have heard yet, is that Cutthroats and Brookies are somewhat resistant, at least by comparison with Rainbows. —

At the fly fishing show in New Jersey, Gary LaFontaine listed a hierarchy of the suseptability to all trout, I cannot remember it exactly but I do remember that Rainbow was number one, and lake trout were at the bottom, I believe unaffected totally.                                         Brian

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Could somebody please give me a short summary, what whirling disease is and how it affects fish and people eating them? (Btw, I am on good terms with biology, so it can be a rather scienific explanation) Thanx, or "Vielen Dank", as we Austrians put it,                                                 Peter

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Tom Fry writes that it is not likely that the national magazines will publish  anything on the whirling disease because of the risk of loss of advertising. Tom = I think that you are wrong on this because the problem has already gotten a lot of national press.  But your scepticism is not without foundation. I suggest that if we do not see any articles in the next couple of editions of FF and Fly Rod & Reel, for example, we ought to beseige them with letters demanding attention to the problem.                                               Dallas, TX                                               Ennis, MT

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Has nay of the national magazines had any reports about whirling disease?

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re: WHIRLING DISEASE… Excellent summary in compuserve fishing library. I could fax it too you if you like…

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Has nay of the national magazines had any reports about whirling disease?

about eating Great Lakes fish. "In-Fisherman" provided some in-depth coverage, and was rewarded with the loss of over $250K of advertising revenue. "Outdoor Life", knowing which side its bread was buttered on, published a blistering editorial calling the advisory 16 kinds of crap. No loss of advertising for these pillars of journalistic integrity — 3798 Woodland Drive     (604) 368-9315 Trail, BC

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