Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – very nice indeed. the conditions you describe are mirrored here in the NC mountains at this time. one question willi, what do you grease the tippet with? With the atmosphere around here lately, I’m pretty sure you don’t want to know. Willi

i guess i should have been clearer….. a floatant or sinkant? …could care less about the brand names… walt — Walter G. Winter Ezflyfish.com:  http://www.ezflyfish.com Blue Ridge Book Gallery: http://users.boone.net/wgw/brbg.html

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Autumn is my favorite time of the year in Colorado. The leaves are turning, the nights are cool but the days are warm, the tourists are gone, the rivers are low, clear and cool, and the fish are hungry.    (snip)    nice little vignette, troutmeister. wayno

It is a wonderful time of the year. Hopefully, Sir Louie and I will experience the same in a Grand River Autumn. Peter

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Autumn is my favorite time of the year in Colorado. The leaves are turning, the nights are cool but the days are warm, the tourists are gone, the rivers are low, clear and cool, and the fish are hungry.

   Hungry and moody. I spent two hours yesterday afternoon on the river Willi and I call our home water. I was dazzled by the shimmering yellow aspen trees, and saddened by the feeling that another fine season of fishing is winding to a close. During my first hour on the water, I hooked 17 fine fish; every spot that looked like it may have EVER held a fish yielded one. About the time I started to feel like I was a pretty talented fisherman, the action ceased. I used every trick in the book to catch another five fish in two more hours. Sheesh.

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Petah Charles writes: It is a wonderful time of the year. Hopefully, Sir Louie and I will experience the same in a Grand River Autumn. Peter

What?  You aren’t guarantying fine weather?  Well, if we get rained out (muddy waters and all), Joanne, Joanne and I will sit around a bottle of single malt and shoot the breeze. (Looking forward to it) Dave

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i guess i should have been clearer….. a floatant or sinkant? …could care less about the brand names…

When fish have moved into shallow feeding areas and are feeding on small stuff ie midges, bwo’s etc. I use a floatant on the leader up until the last few inches. If there isn’t too much glare, you can follow the floating tippet and often see a flash from the fish taking the fly or see the tippet move with a take.  If there is too much glare, I’ll use a very small smear of florescent biostrike? (a putty like stuff)to give me something to follow. Takes are generally very subtle when fish are feeding on this small stuff. I use quill bodied flies quite a bit and if the quills are not coated with cement, they absorb water and sink well. Willi

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Autumn’s soft, midday light that has lost its summer intensity, allows good fish to move into very shallow pockets of water with just enough current to hide them [snip] . Fights seem a bit more determined and the colors a bit more intense.

I drove over to your fine state a week ago for the first time, while I only fished the South Platte near Deckers and the eleven mile canyon, I managed to find a little solitude and hook some of your fine colorado fish with 20 and 22 BWO’s. I can’t tell you how great it was to be fishing again and while I’m sure there are better streams in CO than the So. Platte but for two days it was heaven to me. Great post and you are a lucky man to live in such a beautiful place. — Wayne Knight Expert in creating tailing loops and windknots Otherwise Fishless in Kansas Before you buy.

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I like those warm days following a sub-freezing night when the fishing doesn’t start picking up until 11:00am, and then it’s over by 4:00pm. [good stuff snipped]

Great post, rw. Thanks for the imagery. You gotta love the crisp weather of the mountains in fall. –Steve

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When fish have moved into shallow feeding areas and are feeding on small stuff ie midges, bwo’s etc. I use a floatant on the leader up until the last few inches. If there isn’t too much glare, you can follow the floating tippet and often see a flash from the fish taking the fly or see the tippet move with a take.  If there is too much glare, I’ll use a very small smear of florescent biostrike? (a putty like stuff)to give me something to follow. Takes are generally very subtle when fish are feeding on this small stuff. I use quill bodied flies quite a bit and if the quills are not coated with cement, they absorb water and sink well. Willi

gotcha….. I’ve tried floatant on my leaders and tippet for small midge fishing. I’m not sure if it helps or not but I do know that when I "mud" the tippet for emergers, very small nymphs, or wets I seem to get more takes. I also like to keep a tight line fishing this style with a little twitch every few seconds. Takes are generally sound with that style and for c/r the hook is usually in the mouth versus deeper in the throat or gills. I usually have a long leader/tippet, 12′ +, when fishing this way. report: for all you roffians headed’ this way, the delayed harvest rivers have been stocked for the fall/winter fishing. The Watauga is running low, we can’t seem to shake this drought. –Walt — Walter G. Winter Ezflyfish.com:  http://www.ezflyfish.com Blue Ridge Book Gallery: http://users.boone.net/wgw/brbg.html

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The Watauga is running low, we can’t seem to shake this drought.

Supposed to rain this weekend up by Robbinsville (Forty effect I presume), maybe you’ll get some too. — Charlie…

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I drove over to your fine state a week ago for the first time, while I only fished the South Platte near Deckers and the eleven mile canyon, I managed to find a little solitude and hook some of your fine colorado fish with 20 and 22 BWO’s. I can’t tell you how great it was to be fishing again and while I’m sure there are better streams in CO than the So. Platte but for two days it was heaven to me.

The Platte is/was a fine river. It holds many good fish. However, with its proximity to Denver and Colorado Springs it is the heaviest fished river in the state. The section around Deckers has the reputation of being a very difficult river, especially for people fishing it the first time. Congrats on having success. Willi

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Autumn is my favorite time of the year in Colorado. The leaves are turning, the nights are cool but the days are warm, the tourists are gone, the rivers are low, clear and cool, and the fish are hungry. Autumn’s soft, midday light that has lost its summer intensity, allows good fish to move into very shallow pockets of water with just enough current to hide them.  Large fish wait in water barely deep enough to cover their backs to feed most efficiently on the small emerging bugs. A careless wade sends the fish shooting back into the pools leaving wakes of water in their path. A tiny fly on a long, light, greased leader is the key. A cast several feet above the lie lets the fly sink just enough to interest the fish. No weight, no indicator. Just a flash in the shallow water or the nudge of the floating tippet. Takes are hard and confident and the pressure from the strike sends the fish airborn. Fights seem a bit more determined and the colors a bit more intense. Willi

Response:

Autumn is my favorite time of the year in Colorado. The leaves are turning, the nights are cool but the days are warm, the tourists are gone, the rivers are low, clear and cool, and the fish are hungry.

    (snip)     nice little vignette, troutmeister. wayno

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Autumn is my favorite time of the year in Colorado. The leaves are turning, the nights are cool but the days are warm, the tourists are gone, the rivers are low, clear and cool, and the fish are hungry.     (snip)     nice little vignette, troutmeister. wayno

very nice indeed. the conditions you describe are mirrored here in the NC mountains at this time. one question willi, what do you grease the tippet with? walt — Walter G. Winter Ezflyfish.com:  http://www.ezflyfish.com Blue Ridge Book Gallery: http://users.boone.net/wgw/brbg.html

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Willie wrote;Autumn is my favorite time of the year in Colorado. The leaves are turning, the nights are cool but the days are warm, the tourists are gone, the rivers are low, clear and cool, and the fish are hungry.

This sounds like a fairy tale to me. I don’t think there will be an Autum in Texas this year…mabye in January. It is still in the mid 90’s and I have a hard time calling that Autumn. Big Dale

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very nice indeed. the conditions you describe are mirrored here in the NC mountains at this time. one question willi, what do you grease the tippet with?

With the atmosphere around here lately, I’m pretty sure you don’t want to know. Willi

Response:

Autumn is my favorite time of the year in Colorado. The leaves are turning, the nights are cool but the days are warm, the tourists are gone, the rivers are low, clear and cool, and the fish are hungry.

That sounds like the Stanley area, Willi, but our Autumn probably comes earlier than yours. The good Autumn fishing here is at about 7000 feet. I like those warm days following a sub-freezing night when the fishing doesn’t start picking up until 11:00am, and then it’s over by 4:00pm. There are just enough hoppers to keep fish looking at the surface, but the serious fish-catching is done with common nymphs — the perfect setup for a "hopper/dropper" rig. The water is skinny and the fish are concentrated in holes. This is easy fishing, once you get there. I can roll out of bed late, build a fire, make coffee and bacon and eggs, and take my time planning the trip. Then I can come home in daylight. Perfect. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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one question willi, what do you grease the tippet with? With the atmosphere around here lately, I’m pretty sure you don’t want to know.

Red Mucilin works a lot better than G*** for greasing tippets. — Ken Fortenberry

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Question:

I don’t think that the water temps you stated will support brook or brown trout, so you may not have a lot of options, but rainbows may not stick around for you to catch them. I was under the impression that brown trout tcan olerate higher water temperatures than can rainbows. Isn’t that so? I’ve read that browns can survive if the water temperature does not consistently exceed 70 degrees F.

You are correct, I was wrong about the browns.  Brown trout are the most tolerant of higher water temps by about 1 degree and can tolerate short-term peaks in temperature much better than other types of trout (such as after a warm summer downpour).  I talked to my grandfather about this post last night–he’s been a private hatchery owner since the late 1940s–and he brought up the pH level of the water.  I think he said that rainbows are more tolerant of acidic water than other species. Tom Before you buy.

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I don’t think that the water temps you stated will support brook or brown trout, so you may not have a lot of options, but rainbows may not stick around for you to catch them.  

I was under the impression that brown trout tcan olerate higher water temperatures than can rainbows. Isn’t that so? I’ve read that browns can survive if the water temperature does not consistently exceed 70 degrees F. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

I don’t think that the water temps you stated will support brook or brown trout, so you may not have a lot of options, but rainbows may not stick around for you to catch them. I was under the impression that brown trout tcan olerate higher water temperatures than can rainbows. Isn’t that so? I’ve read that browns can survive if the water temperature does not consistently exceed 70 degrees F.

I fish an area of my local river that I call transition water. Over about a five mile stretch, the river changes dramatically. At the uppermost part of this stretch, rainbows and browns are about equal in number and there are no warm water fishes. Further downstream, there are more browns than rainbows and there are a few carp as well as some warm water minnows. Toward the end of the transition area, there are lots of carp and warm water minnows plus a few VERY large browns. Finally, there are no trout left. Willi

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I am fortunate enough to own a decent stretch of a water (med.size creek) in SW Va. It has good numbers of smallmouth,red-eyes,pike,and many blue gill. In the deepest hole, it’s about 10-11 feet deep.I have measured the temp in July at the bottom. It was around 65 degrees. It keeps a pretty good flow. I put rainbows in a couple of years ago, back in my worm dunking days, and caught some trout this past spring so some must be holding over.My questions: I want to put some trout in this fall/winter…what is to be considered? How many? what type, (all I have been able to locate so far are rainbow and brookies), size? Will my neighbors be eating good, come the first good rain? Am I wasting money??? Other considerations from you folk would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Tim Long

Tim, My Uncle owns a private hatchery here in central PA.  One thing that you may not have considered is the tendency for rainbows to point their nose toward the sea and swim.  One tagged rainbow released into a trout stream here in PA was caught in the Susquehanna river in Maryland!  Not all rainbows will head immediately for the ocean, but you cannot really count on them to stay in the stretch of water you put them in, either. Rainbows swimming for the ocean are akin to throwing your money into the creek and watching it drift away. I don’t think that the water temps you stated will support brook or brown trout, so you may not have a lot of options, but rainbows may not stick around for you to catch them.  Some private hatcheries raise ‘tiger trout’–a sterile cross between a brook and a brown trout (kind of like a mule, I guess)–that doesn’t head downstream like a bullet and fights like the devil.  These ‘tiger trout’ may be able to tolerate the water temps you’ve got, and since you aren’t interested in reproduction they may be just the thing.  Obviously, the purists in the world would look down their noses at this suggestion but it is a possibility. Just trying to be helpful, Tom Before you buy.

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Any time you want to come down your more than welcome…there are two real nice special reg areas within 20 miles of my land…I’m still confused by all the Waynes in the group, do you hail from Fredicksburg? Tim,wondering if theres a Carl’s to go, Long

Hey Tim!  I’m the REAL Wayne.  YES!! We have a Carl’s Ice Cream shop. It’s just closing down for the winter now but, rest assured, it will rise, like the proverbal phoenix, in the spring.  When the MWC coeds grace the warming rocks of the Rappahannock and the shad grace the planks of hickory, Carl’s ice cream shall flow again. — Wayne…now, where did you say those fish are? To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

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because i am younger and better looking. wayno

Have you EVER known a lawyer to bend the truth! — Wayne (who is sometimes mistaken for Wayno’s son by comely youg things in public) To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

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      well, you know how ol waldo will see double from time to time… I’d heard that<g. I may wander over his way next week if I get tired of looking for ol’ Eric up on Snowbird and Santeetlah… — Charlie…

jeez, guess i need to start worry’n ’bout these "senior moments"…. dang, he was so young. i’d still like to see the brothers wayne in the cottonwood brewery though <g waldo — Walter G. Winter Ezflyfish.com:  http://www.ezflyfish.com Blue Ridge Book Gallery: http://users.boone.net/wgw/brbg.html

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   well, you know how ol waldo will see double from time to time…

I’d heard that<g. I may wander over his way next week if I get tired of looking for ol’ Eric up on Snowbird and Santeetlah… — Charlie…

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remember that ‘ole bob newhart tv show that had the thre brothers, darrell, darell, & darrell? I though only two were named Darrell? (The other was Larry?) — Charlie…

        well, you know how ol waldo will see double from time to time… wayno

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remember that ‘ole bob newhart tv show that had the thre brothers, darrell, darell, & darrell?

I though only two were named Darrell? (The other was Larry?) — Charlie…

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Any time you want to come down your more than welcome…there are two real nice special reg areas within 20 miles of my land…I’m still confused by all the Waynes in the group, do you hail from Fredicksburg? Tim,wondering if theres a Carl’s to go, Long

        no, i am the north carolina wayne; "wayno", to be precise. you can tell me apart from the virginia "wayne" (hart) and the temporarily kansas "wayne" (knight) because i am younger and better looking. wayno

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        no, i am the north carolina wayne; "wayno", to be precise. you can tell me apart from the virginia "wayne" (hart) and the temporarily kansas "wayne" (knight) because i am younger and better looking. wayno

wayno, remember that ‘ole bob newhart tv show that had the thre brothers, darrell, darell, & darrell? i swear ta gawd ya’ll are close enough in looks and stature that…. hart, knight, and you could walk into any dang bar, hell anywhere, and introduce yerselves as the brothers wayne, wayne, and wayno. lmao just thinkin’ bout it…. waldo

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Umm…  do not know if your stream conditions support it, but eggs from suitable stock placed in hatch boxes or specially constructed spawning beds may produce more resilient stock than commercial hatchery produced specimens. For example stock taken directly from your stream could be reared in a small controlled hatchery such as those maintained under permit at local universities.  Eggs taken from your brood stock placed in hatch boxes or spawning beds in your stream could imprint the fish and restore quantities up to the level at which your stream’s habitat will support. This approach may qualify you for a TU "Bring Back The Natives" grant to cover part of your costs. Just a suggestion, you may contact the fisheries department of local universities, and fisheries biologists listed in your yellow pages for ideas or help and your local or national Trout Unlimited organizations for support.  By allowing your stream to be used to advance the science of fisheries, it would be appreciated by everyone involved; faculty, students, volunteers, biologists, neighbors and others. If you chose to do something like this, I would sincerely thank you, and the fish will too! John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There are natives in the head waters of this stream, there is quite a few miles and some small private dams in between me and the little native jewels. I saved an article from a 1991 issue of trout titled "Saved By The Barriers" about the encroachment of rainbows on the brookies of the Great Smoky Mountains National Park that you may find of interest. I think the successful barrier height to keep out rainbows was 6 ft. or so. If you send me your address I’ll send the article on to you. owned ponds. IF there is a chance, specified by the VDGIF, that any stocked fish (rainbows) have the opportunity to take over native waters then the permit is not issued and they strongly urge you not to mess with mother nature. My question is, what if I could find brookies to stock, would these same rules apply. VDGIF may be able to give you some insight as to whether the upper section has ever been stocked. If not and there was any chance of your stocked fish getting upstream then you might reconsider brookies. There probably are stocks of brook trout in Va. that escaped the fish bucket dumping craze and it would be a shame to intoduce outside stock to them. During Hoover’s day they even brought in New Hampshire brookies to stock the Rapidan with so I would suspect many other Virginia streams have a wide genetic mix of brookies as well.<G Before flyfishing, we (myself and some family) would buy 25-30 fish at a nearby pond, throw them in the "swimmin’ hole", bait up the kids poles and have a fish fry at the end of a long weekend. Now, I want to do it right, figure out numbers, size, the kind of things that are being discussed in this thread that would give them the best chance to live for as long as possible. As mentioned in my previous post, there are hold overs that I would think have lasted If the upper reaches of your stream are in any of the parks or federal land then I would suggest getting in touch with some of the local TU people to find out who the govt. fisheries biologist is for your area. From my experience with them years ago they are generally hard working, caring folks who really enjoy what they do (despite lousy pay) and would probably be willing to answer your questions and steer you in the right direction. close to two and a half years. (rainbows) NOTHING would make me happier than to be able to go to my own land, and trout fish, however if I thought I would screw up the native population I will never put another fish in. You are to be envied for both your stream and your prudent approach to the problem. Tim, not looking for reproduction,just a good time, Up until the last few years I thought that WAS a good time. Long Kiyu

Response:

I am fortunate enough to own a decent stretch of a water (med.size creek) in SW Va. It has good numbers of smallmouth,red-eyes,pike,and many blue gill. In the deepest hole, it’s about 10-11 feet deep.I have measured the temp in July at the bottom. It was around 65 degrees. It keeps a pretty good flow. I put rainbows in a couple of years ago, back in my worm dunking days, and caught some trout this past spring so some must be holding over.My questions: I want to put some trout in this fall/winter…what is to be considered? How many? what type, (all I have been able to locate so far are rainbow and brookies), size? Will my neighbors be eating good, come the first good rain? Am I wasting money??? Other considerations from you folk would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Tim Long Before you buy.

Response:

The first consideration is that the stocking of exotic species in a free flowing stream is probably illegal, if not it should be. Check with your state’s fish and game agency. Keith – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am fortunate enough to own a decent stretch of a water (med.size creek) in SW Va. It has good numbers of smallmouth,red-eyes,pike,and many blue gill. In the deepest hole, it’s about 10-11 feet deep.I have measured the temp in July at the bottom. It was around 65 degrees. It keeps a pretty good flow. I put rainbows in a couple of years ago, back in my worm dunking days, and caught some trout this past spring so some must be holding over.My questions: I want to put some trout in this fall/winter…what is to be considered? How many? what type, (all I have been able to locate so far are rainbow and brookies), size? Will my neighbors be eating good, come the first good rain? Am I wasting money??? Other considerations from you folk would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Tim Long Before you buy.

Response:

 I want to put some trout in this fall/winter…what is to be considered? How many? what type, (all I have been able to locate so far are rainbow and brookies), size?

        well, tim, you just let ol wayno help you with this troublesome dilemma…here’s the deal:  you put as many rainbows in that water as you can afford, from 10 to 18 inches.  brookies, i am advised, would not be happy for long with water over 65 degrees. then, you have me up for a long weekend once a month from now until the little devils are appropriately…identified.         wayno, always willing to help those in need

Response:

There are natives in the head waters of this stream, there is quite a few miles and some small private dams in between me and the little native jewels.

If you live in Virginia there aren’t any native rainbows in your stream. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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I didn’t mean rainbows,,,native around here automatically means brookies. Tim There are natives in the head waters of this stream, there is quite a few miles and some small private dams in between me and the little native jewels. If you live in Virginia there aren’t any native rainbows in your stream. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Before you buy.

Response:

Any time you want to come down your more than welcome…there are two real nice special reg areas within 20 miles of my land…I’m still confused by all the Waynes in the group, do you hail from Fredicksburg? Tim,wondering if theres a Carl’s to go, Long – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  I want to put some trout in this fall/winter…what is to be considered? How many? what type, (all I have been able to locate so far are rainbow and brookies), size?    well, tim, you just let ol wayno help you with this troublesome dilemma…here’s the deal:  you put as many rainbows in that water as you can afford, from 10 to 18 inches.  brookies, i am advised, would not be happy for long with water over 65 degrees. then, you have me up for a long weekend once a month from now until the little devils are appropriately…identified.    wayno, always willing to help those in need

Before you buy.

Response:

There are natives in the head waters of this stream, there is quite a few miles and some small private dams in between me and the little native jewels.

I saved an article from a 1991 issue of trout titled "Saved By The Barriers" about the encroachment of rainbows on the brookies of the Great Smoky Mountains National Park that you may find of interest. I think the successful barrier height to keep out rainbows was 6 ft. or so. If you send me your address I’ll send the article on to you. owned ponds. IF there is a chance, specified by the VDGIF, that any stocked fish (rainbows) have the opportunity to take over native waters then the permit is not issued and they strongly urge you not to mess with mother nature. My question is, what if I could find brookies to stock, would these same rules apply.

VDGIF may be able to give you some insight as to whether the upper section has ever been stocked. If not and there was any chance of your stocked fish getting upstream then you might reconsider brookies. There probably are stocks of brook trout in Va. that escaped the fish bucket dumping craze and it would be a shame to intoduce outside stock to them. During Hoover’s day they even brought in New Hampshire brookies to stock the Rapidan with so I would suspect many other Virginia streams have a wide genetic mix of brookies as well.<G Before flyfishing, we (myself and some family) would buy 25-30 fish at a nearby pond, throw them in the "swimmin’ hole", bait up the kids poles and have a fish fry at the end of a long weekend. Now, I want to do it right, figure out numbers, size, the kind of things that are being discussed in this thread that would give them the best chance to live for as long as possible. As mentioned in my previous post, there are hold overs that I would think have lasted

If the upper reaches of your stream are in any of the parks or federal land then I would suggest getting in touch with some of the local TU people to find out who the govt. fisheries biologist is for your area. From my experience with them years ago they are generally hard working, caring folks who really enjoy what they do (despite lousy pay) and would probably be willing to answer your questions and steer you in the right direction. close to two and a half years. (rainbows) NOTHING would make me happier than to be able to go to my own land, and trout fish, however if I thought I would screw up the native population I will never put another fish in.

You are to be envied for both your stream and your prudent approach to the problem. Tim, not looking for reproduction,just a good time,

Up until the last few years I thought that WAS a good time. Long

Kiyu

Response:

There are natives in the head waters of this stream, there is quite a few miles and some small private dams in between me and the little native jewels. I have sent an email to the VDGIF and have yet to get a response from them. What I have gathered so far is, the VDGIF wants to sell private stockers a permit to stock, the state will not sell private owners fish from state run hatcheries, you must find them at private owned ponds. IF there is a chance, specified by the VDGIF, that any stocked fish (rainbows) have the opportunity to take over native waters then the permit is not issued and they strongly urge you not to mess with mother nature.My question is, what if I could find brookies to stock, would these same rules apply. Before flyfishing, we (myself and some family) would buy 25-30 fish at a nearby pond, throw them in the "swimmin’ hole", bait up the kids poles and have a fish fry at the end of a long weekend. Now, I want to do it right, figure out numbers, size, the kind of things that are being discussed in this thread that would give them the best chance to live for as long as possible. As mentioned in my previous post, there are hold overs that I would think have lasted close to two and a half years. (rainbows) NOTHING would make me happier than to be able to go to my own land, and trout fish, however if I thought I would screw up the native population I will never put another fish in. Tim,not looking for reproduction,just a good time, Long – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Considering the expense and effort being exerted out here in the west (and its just getting started) to restore our native trout, specifically cutthroat, a little consideration before carrying our five gallon buckets of rainbows and brookies to our favorite trout stream would have been appropriate I think. Keith I think the cat’s out of the bag in this case, Keith. Also, it seems that native brook trout wouldn’t be able to survive the temperatures in this stream. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Before you buy.

Response:

Considering the expense and effort being exerted out here in the west (and its just getting started) to restore our native trout, specifically cutthroat, a little consideration before carrying our five gallon buckets of rainbows and brookies to our favorite trout stream would have been appropriate I think. Keith

I think the cat’s out of the bag in this case, Keith. Also, it seems that native brook trout wouldn’t be able to survive the temperatures in this stream. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

The first consideration is that the stocking of exotic species in a free flowing stream is probably illegal, if not it should be. Check with your state’s fish and game agency. Keith

        well, we wouldn’t want those dangerously bizarre species like rainbow trout to infiltrate the otherwise pristine water of southwestern virginia, now would we? wayno, defender of red-eyes and other noble fauna

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I am fortunate enough to own a decent stretch of a water (med.size creek) in SW Va. It has good numbers of smallmouth,red-eyes,pike,and many blue gill. In the deepest hole, it’s about 10-11 feet deep.I have measured the temp in July at the bottom. It was around 65 degrees. It keeps a pretty good flow. I put rainbows in a couple of years ago, back in my worm dunking days, and caught some trout this past spring so some must be holding over.My questions: I want to put some trout in this fall/winter…what is to be considered? How many? what type, (all I have been able to locate so far are rainbow and brookies), size? Will my neighbors be eating good, come the first good rain? Am I wasting money??? Other considerations from you folk would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Tim Long

Some questions to which you may wish to have answers, YMMV, of course: What is my goal, and what is my budget?  Then _my_ first call would be to the State – whatever the fish, game, wildlife, natural resources, etc. Department is called in Va. What do you own, i.e., do you actually own the creek, or just the banks, or the banks and bottom, or….?  How many total owners (if known) of/on the entire creek?  Does it originate and terminate on private land, and remain so bounded?  Will they participate?  How about the State?  What about tagging?  Some State Wildlife Dept/Dept. Nat. Resources/Fish and Game, etc. (like So. Carolina’s DNR) will even supply kits.  Can you impound, impede, restrict, or control the flow in any way? You mention holdovers – does the creek appear to completely freeze, or did you mean from you last stocking?  Also, you said you put rainbows, but caught trout.  Did you catch rainbows? What other species and sizes are swimming (to avoid the whole "native" debate…<G) there now, and when and where was any other stocking done? What was stocked? I would also think size of the stockers would be important, as they might simply become prey – that will simply be a location decision, based upon type, size, and number of likely preditory candidates. HTH? R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Before you buy.

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Considering the expense and effort being exerted out here in the west (and its just getting started) to restore our native trout, specifically cutthroat, a little consideration before carrying our five gallon buckets of rainbows and brookies to our favorite trout stream would have been appropriate I think. Keith – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The first consideration is that the stocking of exotic species in a free flowing stream is probably illegal, if not it should be. Check with your state’s fish and game agency. Keith well, we wouldn’t want those dangerously bizarre species like rainbow trout to infiltrate the otherwise pristine water of southwestern virginia, now would we? wayno, defender of red-eyes and other noble fauna

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Question:

The way a fish takes a nymph has to do with a number of different things including what nymphs the fish are feeding on, the depth they’re feeding

Here’s an example from about two weeks ago.  I was fishing an unweighted wooly bugger.  Bass would not hit a swimming bugger.  All our hits came as we were distracted and had let our flies sink to the bottom.  Then as we lifted our rods to begin the backcast, that’s when the largemouth bass would strike.  I had noticed plenty of drake shucks floating around and when I got home read in Dick Pobst’s Trout Stream Insects (Orvis Streamside Guide form Lyons Press) to imitate the green drake nymph by lifting it from the bottom of slackwater.   Mu

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Mu Young Lee wrote… Here’s an example from about two weeks ago.  I was fishing an unweighted wooly bugger.  Bass would not hit a swimming bugger.  All our hits came as we were distracted and had let our flies sink to the bottom.

Hey, that’s great news because I get easily distracted. Or at least that’s what my wife tells me. She was telling me that just last week while we were outside in the yard… Wait, what was I talking about? –Steve

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One technique I can suggest to you that is just a small variation on the tight line system you’re trying out. No bobber required!! It is an up, down and across presentation. The same or similar terminal rig as you’re using with your tight line system. The difference is that you need to keep an almost tight line, instead of a tight one. It does require quite a bit of mending, line retrieval etc. to keep the flies along the bottom and still have some contact with them.  The takes are usually pretty apparent either visually or by feel. You do need to vary the amount of weight with each new area you fish. I like this technique for big heavy water, especially in water with good stonefly populations.

Sounds similar to what I intend to do on the weekend.  We’ll see what happens. I do too, but over a season, don’t you take more fish on a dry fished drag free? I think the same holds true for nymphs.

Yes, I just like to try different methods. Since you’re a good streamer fisherman and know that technique well, I’m sure you’ll get some fish on nymphs fished in the same manner. Personally, I’d like to watch you fish streamers. I’ve never had the chance to fish with someone or watch someone effectively fish streamers to stream trout. Don’t see many people flinging streamers in the Rockies. Willi

My wife and I are hoping to get to the Grand Canyon in 2 or 3 years, so unless in the meantime the Avs meet the Leafs in the playoffs, we may get our chance then. Peter

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Despite the lack of hookups, one of the outcomes of the test, was the proof that we miss many strikes in typical bobber nymphing.  No way would I have detected some 20+ strikes in that water with a bobber. All true, however my tests are an attempt to challenge the conventional wisdom of nymphing, mainly ’cause it bores me to tears and I’m not very good at it (not necessarily in that order.)

Dead drifting nymphs in all its many variations, is the most effective and consistent way to catch trout in moving water, but it is not much fun if you’re doing it right unless you’re a madly possessed trout hunter. That’s why I do less and less of it, my mad possession is a thing of the distant past. Dead drifting nymphs requires alot of physical work, terminal tackle changing, concentration, etc. etc. etc. and because I do less and less of it, I’m not as good at it as I used to be. One technique I can suggest to you that is just a small variation on the tight line system you’re trying out. No bobber required!! It is an up, down and across presentation. The same or similar terminal rig as you’re using with your tight line system. The difference is that you need to keep an almost tight line, instead of a tight one. It does require quite a bit of mending, line retrieval etc. to keep the flies along the bottom and still have some contact with them.  The takes are usually pretty apparent either visually or by feel. You do need to vary the amount of weight with each new area you fish. I like this technique for big heavy water, especially in water with good stonefly populations. My test of swimming Hendricksons in slow water proved to me that fish also react quickly and aggressively to moving food even under conditions that enable them to get a good look at the imitation.  The taut line was no problem due to the aggressive take.  BTW, I frequently drag or skitter dries and pick up the odd fish, especially when it’s windy.

I do too, but over a season, don’t you take more fish on a dry fished drag free? I think the same holds true for nymphs. My test was conducted in some fairly heavy current and stained water so by rights, the fish should have been taking aggressively but I think the combo of a broadside presentation of a scud hook and taut line screwed me.  (The Hendricksons were mostly taken from behind.) Anyway, I still consider the test partially successful as it taught me a few things. Hoepfully on the weekend I’ll get a chance to try out the wobble nymphs on a typical streamer swing through the same water.  We’ll see what happens.

Since you’re a good streamer fisherman and know that technique well, I’m sure you’ll get some fish on nymphs fished in the same manner. Personally, I’d like to watch you fish streamers. I’ve never had the chance to fish with someone or watch someone effectively fish streamers to stream trout. Don’t see many people flinging streamers in the Rockies. Willi

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As the nymph enters  she clamps down for probably two reasons, one she must be sure it’s  a nymph not debris, plus she has to kill it.  Nymphs can have  pretty good jaws, especially the big ones, and they can give a good nip.

Interesting, never occurred to me…. it does make you wonder what they think of the hook though, when they mouth it… So if I purposely design a mayfly nymph with the same characteristics of weight and eye placement, I should get the same wobble giving a reasonable facsimile of a swimming nymph.

I’ve seen video footage of nymphs tied in this manner moving in the water, and the wobbling action does look impressive.  Another thing you can do is check into the nymph hooks that have split wire near the eye that create a wide flat body.  Example: www.flytying.com/FlyTying/hookbook/xPARTRIDGE_MASTER/partridgeH3S T.html I haven’t tried this yet, but you got me interested again! * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

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good post deleted. My experience is that with any tight line technique ( I assume you are talking about tight line technique and not a true dead drift one ), lots of fish are missed. Most of the fish you do hook, generally hook themselves. I also don’t find scud hooks as having the best hooking characteristics. That would explain quite a few misses but not 0 for 20 or 30. I think the main reason for the missed strikes is the presence of the tight line itself. Nymphs do not pull back and if they do, they are rejected quickly. This is ONE of the advantages to fishing a true dead drifted nymph.   The way a fish takes a nymph has to do with a number of different things including what nymphs the fish are feeding on, the depth they’re feeding at etc., but I believe the biggest factor is the speed and type of water. In pockets water and the heavy flows at the heads of pools, the strikes are quick and sharp.  This makes it much easier to fool and hook the fish. Fly selection is usually not very important. These are the same waters that work well with attractor dries. In areas of more sedate current, the nymphs are usually taken in a patient, manner allowing the fish to scrutinize the fly. This can result in more bumps, refusals, rejections, etc. and more missed strikes, very similar to "fussy" fish on a dry. I think the comparison to fishing dries holds true in other ways. Usually dead drifted dries are more effective than flies with drag or motion. The same applies to nymphs. Most nymphs are taken when they are drifting with the current, not when they are swimming. Caddis and stoneflies are the most frequent exceptions because the nymphs can be active swimmers and the adults active on the surface. Although a dead drifted nymph or dry may lack the movement trigger to elicit a strike, it will never be seen as unnatural. Drag or motion on a dry or a nymph will often be seen by the trout as unnatural. Willi

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Although a dead drifted nymph or dry may lack the movement trigger to elicit a strike, it will never be seen as unnatural. Drag or motion on a dry or a nymph will often be seen by the trout as unnatural.

Willi, I agree drag is unnatural, but I don’t think Peter’s example of "wobbling" is unnatural, do you?  He was talking about "swimming" nymphs, but when you think about a flat bodied nymph, I think these do it too.  Is something like a Hare’s Ear really the best imitation?  It’s basically tied "round" – i.e. no matter which angle the trout sees it from, it appears broad, as if it were always seeing the broad, flat side of a natural.  That might be why it works.  But tying it to be shaped like a natural might give it a little wobbling motion.  Seems good to me. * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – good post deleted. My experience is that with any tight line technique ( I assume you are talking about tight line technique and not a true dead drift one ), lots of fish are missed. Most of the fish you do hook, generally hook themselves. I also don’t find scud hooks as having the best hooking characteristics. That would explain quite a few misses but not 0 for 20 or 30. I think the main reason for the missed strikes is the presence of the tight line itself. Nymphs do not pull back and if they do, they are rejected quickly. This is ONE of the advantages to fishing a true dead drifted nymph.  

My original post was supposed to have a few sentences that explained that I had built the leader, added weight and the bead head precisely to get as taut a line as possible.  I knew that the taut line contributed to the problem.  I wrote this Friday night at my bro-in-law’s after numerous beers so I plead guilty to TWI.   Despite the lack of hookups, one of the outcomes of the test, was the proof that we miss many strikes in typical bobber nymphing.  No way would I have detected some 20+ strikes in that water with a bobber. The way a fish takes a nymph has to do with a number of different things including what nymphs the fish are feeding on, the depth they’re feeding at etc., but I believe the biggest factor is the speed and type of water. In pockets water and the heavy flows at the heads of pools, the strikes are quick and sharp.  This makes it much easier to fool and hook the fish. Fly selection is usually not very important. These are the same waters that work well with attractor dries. In areas of more sedate current, the nymphs are usually taken in a patient, manner allowing the fish to scrutinize the fly. This can result in more bumps, refusals, rejections, etc. and more missed strikes, very similar to "fussy" fish on a dry.

All true, however my tests are an attempt to challenge the conventional wisdom of nymphing, mainly ’cause it bores me to tears and I’m not very good at it (not necessarily in that order.)  My test of swimming Hendricksons in slow water proved to me that fish also react quickly and aggressively to moving food even under conditions that enable them to get a good look at the imitation.  The taut line was no problem due to the aggressive take.  BTW, I frequently drag or skitter dries and pick up the odd fish, especially when it’s windy. My test was conducted in some fairly heavy current and stained water so by rights, the fish should have been taking aggressively but I think the combo of a broadside presentation of a scud hook and taut line screwed me.  (The Hendricksons were mostly taken from behind.) Anyway, I still consider the test partially successful as it taught me a few things. I think the comparison to fishing dries holds true in other ways. Usually dead drifted dries are more effective than flies with drag or motion. The same applies to nymphs. Most nymphs are taken when they are drifting with the current, not when they are swimming. Caddis and stoneflies are the most frequent exceptions because the nymphs can be active swimmers and the adults active on the surface. Although a dead drifted nymph or dry may lack the movement trigger to elicit a strike, it will never be seen as unnatural. Drag or motion on a dry or a nymph will often be seen by the trout as unnatural. Willi

Hoepfully on the weekend I’ll get a chance to try out the wobble nymphs on a typical streamer swing through the same water.  We’ll see what happens. Peter

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Some time back I wrote a piece about straight-line nymphing and about how I had a phenomenal hit rate and an abysmal hookup rate.  I swear that in one run I must have had something like 20 for 0 or 30 for 0 strikes to hookups.  I had a method that would enable me to detect strikes but I couldn’t hookup worth a damn.  Talk about frustration so I’ve put the method aside.  Two things have occurred since that have set me to thinking about straight-line nymphing again; I read that post Sandy put out about soft-bodied nymphs and my failure with a crayfish design that wobbled like a Red Devil on the retrieve.  These two events have given me a clue into a new type of fishing that could prove very successful. (I hope.)  I’m in the middle of my northern NT trip and with nothing to do on the long trip to Timmins, so I’m doing my best to use the time productively <g to try and figure out why my straight-line nymphing was a failure.  I’m not a biologist and I’ve never talked to one about this so read the following with that proviso.  I’ve been trying to visualize how a trout takes a nymph. A trout resting in her lie doesn’t really have to work hard for dinner.  The whole process must be a relaxed affair compared to a bass chasing and inhaling a minnow.  As a nymph drifts toward the lie, she slides out and slightly opens her mouth.  As the nymph enters she clamps down for probably two reasons, one she must be sure it’s a nymph not debris, plus she has to kill it.  Nymphs can have pretty good jaws, especially the big ones, and they can give a good nip.  So she slides back into her lie with the nymph, chomps it once or twice more, runs it over her tongue as a final check, and only then swallows it.  This is the key to Sandy’s foam nymphs, as a hard nymph will be rejected as phony after a couple of chomps.  It also explains why I couldn’t get hookups.  I was fishing with a tungsten bead head caddis tied on a scud hook.  This hook has a thick wire, large gape and short shank plus the bead and the firmly wound body were rock hard. Straight-line nymphing will present the fly broadside to the trout. So when a trout took it, the hook point probably hit its lower jaw and the fly canted sideways, so when the trout clamped down, the hook point was outside of its mouth.  I’ve seen smallmouth take a slow moving woolly bugger the same way.  Plus, if I delayed the hookset, the trout would reject the hard nymph.  So if I’m to get a nymph to work on a straight-line swing, the point has to get inside the trout’s mouth.  That means a small gape, long shank, thin wire hook.  It would also help if the trout would take it like a streamer – with gusto. Mayfly nymphs come in three varieties, burrowing, clinging, and swimming.  Burrowing nymphs, like Hexes, favour soft, silty, slow moving sections of rivers and only become active in low light, dusk, or at night, consequently they don’t give us much opportunity to exploit except during emergence.  Clinging mayfly nymphs and most stoneflies crawl about rocks and only infrequently move in open water except when migrating to emerge.  When a clinging nymph wants to move and find a new feeding spot, they release their hold on a rock and allow themselves to be swept along in the current, swimming only a little.  These are the most common nymphs that we imitate when we dead drift.  Some species time their moves so that an entire section of a river has all of one species of nymph drifting at about the same time. An effective strategy for reducing casualties to marauding trout. These trout have very flat bodies and strong, thick legs suitable clinging to rocks.  The third type of nymphs however, are excellent swimmers with elegant, long, thin bodies and thin swimming legs. These mayflies swim with an arched back and an undulating side-to-side motion that wriggle nymphs unsuccessfully try to imitate.  Unlike clingers, these nymphs should be moved to be lifelike.  A down-and-across streamer swing with a few small strips should do the job. Recently, I tried swimming Hendrickson nymphs and I was pleasantly surprised with the aggression that trout displayed when taking them. No subtle takes this time and the hookup rate was very high.  So if I combine a good swimming nymph pattern with a swinging presentation, the results should be good.  Back to the crayfish pattern.  I had used a jig hook and had weighted the shank near the gape.  On the retrieve, the combination of the upraised eye and low set weight resulted in the fly flipping over and wobbling like an old Red Devil.  So if I purposely design a mayfly nymph with the same characteristics of weight and eye placement, I should get the same wobble giving a reasonable facsimile of a swimming nymph.  Well, wish me luck with it, as once I’ve got over the worst of the NT install, I’m going to tie up some and swing them through some Grand River runs.

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Question:

Can anyone tell me how the Yakima is fishing right now. Any info on its condition would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

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Last I heard (Last Saturday) it was very slow fishing. It won’t be long before the yellow stones are out though so fishing should pick up soon! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can anyone tell me how the Yakima is fishing right now. Any info on its condition would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

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If you’re lucky you may find a great PMD hatch. Size 18 to 20 compara duns would then work great. Most fish would be a few inches from bank where mayflies congregate in the bushes. If you are unlucky and the river is as high as I think it will be a flashy bead head nymph under a royal wulff may do the trick. Check with Red’s Fly shop in the canyon for up to date info. Good luck Herb

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I’m heading out to the Yakima in about a week and a half.  Can anyone out there give me some information on the fishing conditions, hatches etc. Thanks in advance. RRS

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I’m heading out to the Yakima in about a week and a half.  Can anyone out there give me some information on the fishing conditions, hatches etc. Thanks in advance. RRS

It’s blown and cold right now.  Might be better soon. Call Cooper’s FLy Shop in Ellensburg, WA, 509 area code, for up to date data.  Creekside in Issaquah will have reasonable info, but is further from the river. they’re at 206-392-3800.

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I fished this river last Thursday (the 23rd) and I’m going again this coming Saturday. The river had just blown out and was pretty murky, however I did catch one fish, and they WERE actually out feeding, on what I do not know… I couldn’t make out any discernable hatch. But I caught my fish with a #12 Royal Humpy. They weren’t eating the stones I threw at them. Hopefully the river will be back down to more fishable access by Saturday, otherwise i’ll be doing a lot of hiking… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Anybody been to the Yakima in the last couple of days?  This is my first chance this year.  I’m planning to head up tomorrow.  I’m a wader so hope the flow isn’t up too far yet. BARRY

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Anybody been to the Yakima in the last couple of days?  This is my first chance this year.  I’m planning to head up tomorrow.  I’m a wader so hope the flow isn’t up too far yet. BARRY

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I was there last saturday. The water was in good shape but the fishing was VERY tough. The fishing last friday was said to have been pretty good. I don’t know how sunday was though. With the warm weather we have been having I would expect the water to be iffy. You might check the water levels before you head over. Gary – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anybody been to the Yakima in the last couple of days?  This is my first chance this year.  I’m planning to head up tomorrow.  I’m a wader so hope the flow isn’t up too far yet. BARRY

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know what you are flying but when flying my instructors Turbo Aztec, six full grown american people and topped off I can hold 15,000 on one engine, well, or as long as my leg holds out. cg It is most certainly feasible and is done all the time. Wether done single engine or twin is really no consideration. In some respects, a single may be better than a twin because in a twin you need to carry much more fuel to feed two engines. That second engine does not give you any more chances to remain airborne, if one should fail, until such a time that you are back down to normal weights. During the early phases of the flight you would be so heavy with fuel that one engine could not possibly keep you in the air. Reinhard

First off, I would have to see that to believe it. Secondly, to fly OAK-HNL in a Turbo Aztec (14 hrs plus 3 hrs reserve), you would carry a lot more weight in fuel than the load you described here. Reinhard

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I have this fantasy of flying to one of them deserted SP islands (Robinson Crusoe Syndrome).  Has anyone tried this in a single engine airplane, is this feasible at all?  Which route would one take? Thanks, James The two longest legs are Oakland to Honolulu 2100 NM and from there you have another long leg, either HNL to Majuro, Marshall Islands, or HNL to Tarawa, Republic of Kiribati, the latter one being a good stop, but almost again as far as OAK-HNL. After that you can choose your legs more easily and they are considerably shorter.

You could also go up to Alaska, across and down through Russia, over to Japan and then on to the South Pacific.  It is a much longer journey, but no 2000 mile over water legs. (I wonder how far the jump to Palau would be, I’ve always wanted to go there…) Brian

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First off, I would have to see that to believe it. Secondly, to fly OAK-HNL in a Turbo Aztec (14 hrs plus 3 hrs reserve), you would carry a lot more weight in fuel than the load you described here. Reinhard I only show from OAK to PHNL to be 2089 nm that would only be about 10 hrs in the air.

My rounded off 2100 NM was only a paltry 11 NM off from your very accurate 2089!! well within range 300 gal, 1800 lbs, but you would not be flying  more than 5 hours on one engine. cg

It is quite obvious to me that you are an armchair pilot who has never done anything like this before. Your numbers are all wrong, and I hope for your sake that you never try it. You would most certainly get your feet wet. It took me 13 hours in a Baron 58 and 15 in a Twin Bonanza. Your turbos in that Aztec would most likely do very little if anything for you since westbound to HNL most frequently you need to stay at 10K or below lest you catch the prevailing westerlies which are very strong at altitude. So you would do well to get 150K over the water. Reinhard

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I only show from OAK to PHNL to be 2089 nm that would only be about 10 hrs in the air. well within range 300 gal, 1800 lbs, but you would not be flying  more than 5 hours on one engine.   cg First off, I would have to see that to believe it. Secondly, to fly OAK-HNL in a Turbo Aztec (14 hrs plus 3 hrs reserve), you would carry a lot more weight in fuel than the load you described here. Reinhard

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First off, I would have to see that to believe it. Secondly, to fly OAK-HNL in a Turbo Aztec (14 hrs plus 3 hrs reserve), you would carry a lot more weight in fuel than the load you described here. Reinhard

I thought for IFR you only needed 45 min reserve.  – Doug  -  Kingfisher plans are here…Now, about that Garage… …cruising between 150 to 200 miles per hour… Greater cruising speeds are possible, but the size of the earth does not warrent greater speeds. -Igor Sikorsky in 1934

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It doesn’t matter a great deal what the legal reserve is.  Winds over the Pacific on that flight are usually against you.  If you go high at all to minimize fuel consumption the head winds increase.  The Aztec is NOT a fast airplane for its fuel consumption.   To fly that leg without considerably MORE than a 45 minute reserve, is to seriously invite wet feet.  The 3  hour reserve is not bad.  The 14 hours is quite optimistic, in my opinion.  I think I would use something like 18 hours for flight planning purposes in an Aztec.  Then I would add another three hours for reserve.  That looks like about 21 hours of fuel. I think you could get it in, but not without some pretty special ferry tanks!   John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – First off, I would have to see that to believe it. Secondly, to fly OAK-HNL in a Turbo Aztec (14 hrs plus 3 hrs reserve), you would carry a lot more weight in fuel than the load you described here. Reinhard I thought for IFR you only needed 45 min reserve.  – Doug  -  Kingfisher plans are here…Now, about that Garage… …cruising between 150 to 200 miles per hour… Greater cruising speeds are possible, but the size of the earth does not warrent greater speeds. -Igor Sikorsky in 1934

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OK, so its been done before in factory planes, how about homebuilts?  I am considering the KR2, which has an advertised range of 1600sm, can this be extended with additional tanks to the 2100nm required to fly to HNL? James – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have this fantasy of flying to one of them deserted SP islands (Robinson Crusoe Syndrome).  Has anyone tried this in a single engine airplane, is this feasible at all?  Which route would one take? Thanks, James James, It is most certainly feasible and is done all the time. Wether done single engine or twin is really no consideration. In some respects, a single may be better than a twin because in a twin you need to carry much more fuel to feed two engines. That second engine does not give you any more chances to remain airborne, if one should fail, until such a time that you are back down to normal weights. During the early phases of the flight you would be so heavy with fuel that one engine could not possibly keep you in the air. The two longest legs are Oakland to Honolulu 2100 NM and from there you have another long leg, either HNL to Majuro, Marshall Islands, or HNL to Tarawa, Republic of Kiribati, the latter one being a good stop, but almost again as far as OAK-HNL. After that you can choose your legs more easily and they are considerably shorter. Reinhard

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What did you assume that I would try it without any  preflight planning?? cg It is quite obvious to me that you are an armchair pilot who has never done anything like this before. Your numbers are all wrong, and I hope for your sake that you never try it. You would most certainly get your feet wet. It took me 13 hours in a Baron 58 and 15 in a Twin Bonanza. Your turbos in that Aztec would most likely do very little if anything for you since westbound to HNL most frequently you need to stay at 10K or below lest you catch the prevailing westerlies which are very strong at altitude. So you would do well to get 150K over the water. Reinhard

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First off, I would have to see that to believe it. Secondly, to fly OAK-HNL in a Turbo Aztec (14 hrs plus 3 hrs reserve), you would carry a lot more weight in fuel than the load you described here. Reinhard I thought for IFR you only needed 45 min reserve.  – Doug  -  

Surely you jest, Doug. Kidding aside, the special flight permit that you get for the overload condition and he temporary fuel tank installation requires you calculate in a 3 hour reserve on transoceanic flights. Things can happen while on such a long flight; the forecast winds can turn out different, you might have equipment problems that cause you to burn more fuel for less airspeed than you had planned, etc. I have had several a couple of occasions when I was glad for the extra fuel. Remember, there is only one time when you can have too much fuel: when you are on fire. Reinhard

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It doesn’t matter a great deal what the legal reserve is.  Winds over the Pacific on that flight are usually against you.  If you go high at all to minimize fuel consumption the head winds increase.  The Aztec is NOT a fast airplane for its fuel consumption.   To fly that leg without considerably MORE than a 45 minute reserve, is to seriously invite wet feet.  The 3  hour reserve is not bad.  The 14 hours is quite optimistic, in my opinion.  I think I would use something like 18 hours for flight planning purposes in an Aztec.  Then I would add another three hours for reserve.  That looks like about 21 hours of fuel. I think you could get it in, but not without some pretty special ferry tanks!  

How do you get 21 hours of fuel into an Aztec?  I’m not familiar with the type, but at an avg fuel burn of 8-10 GPH – we’re talking about 168-210 gals. Where would you put it all?  Another question springs to mind – how do you add oil in flight? I’ve seen club aircraft burn as much as a 1/2 qt/hr. The sump would be bone dry after 21 hrs with no additional oil.

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I think I would use something like 18 hours for flight planning purposes in an Aztec.  Then I would add another three hours for reserve.  That looks like about 21 hours of fuel. I think you could get it in, but not without some pretty special ferry tanks! How do you get 21 hours of fuel into an Aztec?  I’m not familiar with the type, but at an avg fuel burn of 8-10 GPH – we’re talking about 168-210 gals. Where would you put it all?  Another question springs to mind – how do you add oil in flight? I’ve seen club aircraft burn as much as a 1/2 qt/hr. The sump would be bone dry after 21 hrs with no additional oil.

If you stay below 10k feet, you will frequently find winds that are not too bad. You often find about 10 knots of help down low.. Under no circumstances would I start out with ANY headwind on that leg. Then you could make HNL in about 14-15 hrs in an Aztec. Taking a Baron to Fiji last year, I flew at 6K feet to HNL and did quite well. (13 hrs.) Fitting all that fuel into the plane is really not so difficult. There are professional tanking outfits that install ferry tanks in the cabin in a day. You are certainly correct when you adress the oil issue. It is absolutely essential that you know the oil consumption of your engines. And there is also a way to rig an oil replenishing setup to that you can add oil in flight. Reinhard

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OK, so its been done before in factory planes, how about homebuilts?  I am considering the KR2, which has an advertised range of 1600sm, can this be extended with additional tanks to the 2100nm required to fly to HNL? James

Well Jon Johanson has done it both ways (make that crossed the Pacific … ) in an RV-4 during his round the world trips. Check out his Web site at http://www.mag-net.educ.monash.edu.au/saaa/head.html. He has also published his autobio called "Aiming High", Wakefield Press, South Australia, ISBN 1 86254 424 7. Highly recommended reading for anyone building their own plane. Rgds JD   …… I’d rather be flying ….. John Duncan M.C.N.E.  PPL(A)  J.P.  AOPA(Aust)#42745 EAA#548147 J & J Network Services Pty Ltd P.O. Box 109 Minto N.S.W. 2566 Australia

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My tongue was firmly in cheek.  I don’t fly VFR without at least 1 hour reserve. — Doug  -  Kingfisher plans are here…Now, about that Garage… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It doesn’t matter a great deal what the legal reserve is.  Winds over the Pacific on that flight are usually against you.  If you go high at all to minimize fuel consumption the head winds increase.  The Aztec is NOT a fast airplane for its fuel consumption.   To fly that leg without considerably MORE than a 45 minute reserve, is to seriously invite wet feet.  The 3  hour reserve is not bad.  The 14 hours is quite optimistic, in my opinion.  I think I would use something like 18 hours for flight planning purposes in an Aztec.  Then I would add another three hours for reserve.  That looks like about 21 hours of fuel. I think you could get it in, but not without some pretty special ferry tanks!   John I thought for IFR you only needed 45 min reserve.  – Doug  -  Kingfisher plans are here…Now, about that Garage… …cruising between 150 to 200 miles per hour… Greater cruising speeds are possible, but the size of the earth does not warrent greater speeds. -Igor Sikorsky in 1934

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No idea about a KR2, but you might want to read Sport Aviation (past few issues) and look for the 2 part round the world story by the author and Burt Rutan, who flew their Long EZ’s around the world. Very informative (and nice pictures – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OK, so its been done before in factory planes, how about homebuilts?  I am considering the KR2, which has an advertised range of 1600sm, can this be extended with additional tanks to the 2100nm required to fly to HNL? James

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OK, so its been done before in factory planes, how about homebuilts?  I am considering the KR2, which has an advertised range of 1600sm, can this be extended with additional tanks to the 2100nm required to fly to HNL? James Well Jon Johanson has done it both ways (make that crossed the Pacific … ) in an RV-4 during his round the world trips. Check out his Web site at http://www.mag-net.educ.monash.edu.au/saaa/head.html. He has also published his autobio called "Aiming High", Wakefield Press, South Australia, ISBN 1 86254 424 7. Highly recommended reading for anyone building their own plane.

James, You are considering a monumental task here ol chap, this sought of feat requires a hell of a lot of homework and I would suggest you’re really stretching it in a KR-2. With a large amount of retro-fitting you could possibly carry out this adventure, however the stakes are extremely high! I would also endorse the above, ie read Jon Johannson’s book and while your doing that bare a thought for the planning both technically and enroute that goes into these voyages. You may also wish to contact the "Mick & Dick" of "Round the World Friendship Tour":- Sport Aviation Feb edition Pg 76. For a start, unless you’ve got heaps of "Bucks" behind you, just go build your A/C and enjoy flying it around the "States". Whilst I’ll admit, I don’t have an intermit knowledge of the KR-2 and its weight & balance etc, it is only small by any standards. Its payload excess does not go down well with the number crunching required when you consider such additions as fuel, extra redundancy systems req’d, and ESPECIALLY CONSIDER ENGINE RELIABLITY etc, etc. To say the least, 18 plus hours is a long time to spend in the close confines of a KR-2 cockpit, surrounded by custom built ferry tanks around your ears. I have two buddies that were involved in Ferry Flights across the Pacific in their younger days. One of them did get his feet wet mid Pacific (1200 Nm from nowhere & at night) when the nut on the Alternator pulley worked its way loose. Lucky for him he had spotted a fishing boat a couple of hours before and was able to back track and relocate it. All be it, he was now down to torch and compass. That was in a brand new production A/C as well. Glenn now does his long transcontinental flights the same way I do, the only way:-In style at 43,000 ft. James, whilst your challenge is a commendable one, the golden rule is to keep your feet dry. Best way to do that is travel the South Pacific the same way most of us do, In a 747, 767 etc, and don’t forget you can have the added advantage of sipping champagne or other adult beverages!! If you’re considering going on from HNL to other South Pacific destinations, then you have a hole heap more challenges in front of you. Regards Ray (Just my 2 cents worth) J.

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I don’t know what you are flying but when flying my instructors Turbo Aztec, six full grown american people and topped off I can hold 15,000 on one engine, well, or as long as my leg holds out. cg It is most certainly feasible and is done all the time. Wether done single engine or twin is really no consideration. In some respects, a single may be better than a twin because in a twin you need to carry much more fuel to feed two engines. That second engine does not give you any more chances to remain airborne, if one should fail, until such a time that you are back down to normal weights. During the early phases of the flight you would be so heavy with fuel that one engine could not possibly keep you in the air. Reinhard

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How do you get 21 hours of fuel into an Aztec?  I’m not familiar with the type, but at an avg fuel burn of 8-10 GPH – we’re talking about 168-210 gals. Where would you put it all?  Another question springs to mind – how do you add oil in flight? I’ve seen club aircraft burn as much as a 1/2 qt/hr. The sump would be bone dry after 21 hrs with no additional oil.

The Aztec would burn considerably more than 8-10 GPH.  Probably closer to 25 GPH.  So we are talking about over 500 gallons.  The Aztec is a rather slow twin with a pair of 250 HP flat engines.  It is Pipers upscale Apache, just as the Beech Baron is the high power version of the Travelair. John

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What is the availability of av-gas in Russia. I hear that it’s non-existant. D.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think I would use something like 18 hours for flight planning purposes in an Aztec.  Then I would add another three hours for reserve.  That looks like about 21 hours of fuel. I think you could get it in, but not without some pretty special ferry tanks! How do you get 21 hours of fuel into an Aztec?  I’m not familiar with the type, but at an avg fuel burn of 8-10 GPH – we’re talking about 168-210 gals. Where would you put it all?  Another question springs to mind – how do you add oil in flight? I’ve seen club aircraft burn as much as a 1/2 qt/hr. The sump would be bone dry after 21 hrs with no additional oil. If you stay below 10k feet, you will frequently find winds that are not too bad. You often find about 10 knots of help down low.. Under no circumstances would I start out with ANY headwind on that leg. Then you could make HNL in about 14-15 hrs in an Aztec. Taking a Baron to Fiji last year, I flew at 6K feet to HNL and did quite well. (13 hrs.) Fitting all that fuel into the plane is really not so difficult. There are professional tanking outfits that install ferry tanks in the cabin in a day. You are certainly correct when you adress the oil issue. It is absolutely essential that you know the oil consumption of your engines. And there is also a way to rig an oil replenishing setup to that you can add oil in flight. Reinhard

Reinhard is exactly right.  You notice in the original post that I did mention that it would take some fancy ferry tanks to get the fuel in! When my airplane flew across the Atlantic from Brazil to Cornwall, they added a special fancy ferry tank.  A 50 gallon drum on chocks where the back seat goes, with a wobble pump to pump fuel up into the wing tank. They recommended that you run the wing tank down to less than a quarter full before pumping fuel up to it.  They said watch the gauges so you do not overfill it and pump fuel overboard.   The also recommended the long distance power setting of 1800 RPM and 23 inches of manifold pressure.  That was supposed to get the fuel consumption down to 14.7 gallons per hour.  That gave a little over eight hours in the air.  At that power setting, you get 100 knots! Still wouldn’t make Honolulu! John

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I have this fantasy of flying to one of them deserted SP islands (Robinson Crusoe Syndrome).  Has anyone tried this in a single engine airplane, is this feasible at all?  Which route would one take? Thanks, James

James, It is most certainly feasible and is done all the time. Wether done single engine or twin is really no consideration. In some respects, a single may be better than a twin because in a twin you need to carry much more fuel to feed two engines. That second engine does not give you any more chances to remain airborne, if one should fail, until such a time that you are back down to normal weights. During the early phases of the flight you would be so heavy with fuel that one engine could not possibly keep you in the air. The two longest legs are Oakland to Honolulu 2100 NM and from there you have another long leg, either HNL to Majuro, Marshall Islands, or HNL to Tarawa, Republic of Kiribati, the latter one being a good stop, but almost again as far as OAK-HNL. After that you can choose your legs more easily and they are considerably shorter. Reinhard

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I have this fantasy of flying to one of them deserted SP islands (Robinson Crusoe Syndrome).  Has anyone tried this in a single engine airplane, is this feasible at all?  Which route would one take? Thanks, James I think someone tried this in a twin.  Her name was Amelia something….. Sorrry, it was too easy to pass on  :-)

Like minds I guess, but I resisted.  Abacus.com has an add-on for MS Flight Simulator that follows her route.    It wasn’t/isn’t an easy flight. John J. Miller

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I have this fantasy of flying to one of them deserted SP islands (Robinson Crusoe Syndrome).  Has anyone tried this in a single engine airplane, is this feasible at all?  Which route would one take? Thanks, James

Da Plane, Boss, Da Plane! (sorry, just couldn’t help myself) John Galban====N4BQ (PA28-180)

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I have this fantasy of flying to one of them deserted SP islands (Robinson Crusoe Syndrome).  Has anyone tried this in a single engine airplane, is this feasible at all?  Which route would one take? Thanks, James

I think someone tried this in a twin.  Her name was Amelia something….. Sorrry, it was too easy to pass on  :-) Jeff Oslick

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I have this fantasy of flying to one of them deserted SP islands (Robinson Crusoe Syndrome).  Has anyone tried this in a single engine airplane, is this feasible at all?  Which route would one take? Thanks, James

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Check out http://www.calle.com/aviation/airports.cgi Allows you to specify departure, destination, range and speed, and displays a nice table and map of the results. Lots of material for dream flights… BTW you probably don’t want a totally deserted island; food, water, fuel, runway and women should be minimum requirements (the website allows you to specify 2 out of these 5 Eric – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have this fantasy of flying to one of them deserted SP islands (Robinson Crusoe Syndrome).  Has anyone tried this in a single engine airplane, is this feasible at all?  Which route would one take? Thanks, James

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Question:

        Hi! I am dying rabbit pelts for bunny leaches and I noticed that they shrink to almost a quarter their actual size I’ve heard to use cold water but I cant get the full colors I want.  I am using RIT dye any help or directions would be appreciated THANKS!                                         Dolph

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        Hi! I am dying rabbit pelts for bunny leaches and I noticed that they shrink to almost a quarter their actual size I’ve heard to use cold water but I cant get the full colors I want.  I am using RIT dye any help or directions would be appreciated THANKS!

….what’s your time frame? I dye rabbit pelts with room-temperature water and rit dye, and get good (usually olive) colors everytime. But I find I have to let the pelts soak for a least a week to to get it. —  * Center For Computational Biology            –o0O  * Montana State University  */

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        Hi! I am dying rabbit pelts for bunny leaches and I noticed that they shrink to almost a quarter their actual size I’ve heard to use cold water but I cant get the full colors I want.  I am using RIT dye any help or directions would be appreciated THANKS!                                         Dolph

Hi Dolph When Gretchen & I dye rabbit pelts we pin them to a board before drying them to keep them from shrinking. For more info on dying check the "tips & tricks" section of my web site. I’ve reviewed temperatures and other tips there. Take care & … — Tight Lines ….. Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Catalog,Tips & Tricks, Fishing Reports, & NeverSink at: http://www.btsflyfishing.com

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        Hi! I am dying rabbit pelts for bunny leaches and I noticed that they shrink to almost a quarter their actual size I’ve heard to use cold water but I cant get the full colors I want.  I am using RIT dye any help or directions would be appreciated THANKS!

If you want very bright colors, you’ll have to peroxide the pelts first. You can use Miss Clearall (sp) or any other product made for bleaching human hair. This will strip alot of the natural color & leave you with a much lighter hair to work with. Willi

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Question:

Does anyone have any tips on flyfishing at Gold Lake (hwy 58) in Oregon?

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Does anyone have any tips on flyfishing at Gold Lake (hwy 58) in Oregon?

1. Take plenty of mosquito juice. 2. Small nymphs, dries, chronimids. 3. Enjoy Lake is full of 8" brookies and fewer larger rainbow.

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Question:

   I work at Jacklin’s Fly shop in West Yellowstone, MT.  The fly fishing in the area is tremendous.  If anyone has fished the area and has some helpful tips, please reply or if someone wants some tips on fly fishing in the West Yellowstone area I’d be glad to give them.   Thanks,

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   I work at Jacklin’s Fly shop in West Yellowstone, MT.

Jamie, That’s one hell of a commute from BGSU to West Yellowstone. I know the real estate price are pretty outrageous there, but I would think you could find something a little closer in. Bill

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Jamie: i have fished west the last two summers. there are not enough superlatives in the dictionary to describe the area, especially for a new yorker. i stay at the pine shadows and last year fished the madison with blaine heap. this year i fished thhe park on my ownn and went up to livingston and fished nelson’s. i hope to return to west next year. charlie di peri

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Hi One of my favorite places to fish in the Park is the Gibbon River in Elk Meadow and also below the falls.  You are right, there are so many places to fish in the WYS area that it would take a life time to fish them all.  Also just outside WYS Cougar Creek is real good but watch for bears. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 catalog) http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

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Question:

A buddy and I are planning a trip to Eugene, Ore. in mid-April. First of all, will the season be open and if so, where might be some good places I can fly fishing for trout while in the area. Access might be an issue, because I’m not sure how much time we’ll have. But any suggestions would be appreciated.

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Jeffrey: From the regs it looks like the trout season opens, generally, on April 27.  The are some options open year round, however.  The lower McKenzie, Middle Fork of the Willamette, North Fork of the Middle Fork of the Willamette, etc.  Additionally, a 1 1/2 to 2 hour drive gets you to the Metolious River which is open year round for catch and release fly fishing in the upper strech.  Probably, your best bet is to check w/ the local shops for better info than I have.  Try The Caddis Fly Shop ((541)342-7005) or Home Waters ((541)342-6691). Andy

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Question:

for some interesting photos and stories check us out at: http://peacock.com/skindiver we accept your interesting photos too!  just attach them to an email with a description…… should we start a flyfishing section? — Everett Peacock peacock.com corporation http://peacock.com

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for some interesting photos and stories check us out at: http://peacock.com/skindiver we accept your interesting photos too!  just attach them to an email with a description…… should we start a flyfishing section? — Everett Peacock peacock.com corporation http://peacock.com

Everett, Should you start a fly fishing section? If there’s fly fishing to be done, then by all means, start a section.

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