Question:

What is a clave?

Response:

What is a clave?

It is where a bunch of people get together and discuss/practice a common interest, in the case of ROFFians, fly fishing. Supposedly. Havening never been to a ROFF clave I cannot attest to what goes on there, but there are rumors . . . Clave is short for conclave. HTH, Russell

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Ahhh, grasshopper (size 10 Dave’s hopper to be specific) you have much to learn before you ask such fishasophical questions. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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A clave, by any other name . . . john

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ahhh, grasshopper (size 10 Dave’s hopper to be specific) you have much to learn before you ask such fishasophical questions.

Response:

What is a clave?

You will need to buy the September issue of American Angler to find out.

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Question:

Thanks for the reply. I feel like a regular already. I have been lurking for a couple of years. I’m fairly new to flyfishing and was having trouble getting my post to go through. I hope I can contribute in the future. I also hope to attend a clave sometime it sounds like fun.

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I hope I can contribute in the future. I also hope to attend a clave sometime it sounds like fun.

    for my part, i hope you reach both goals.  welcome to the nuthouse. wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Whoooweee and likewise yeeehaaw!  That reply posted in seconds.  We may have a winner here. His wife in El Paso – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear fellas – figgered a "sorry" test message is a good place to re-test us.

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Dear fellas – figgered a "sorry" test message is a good place to re-test us.  We’ve been having terrible troubles trying to post replies.  It appears Southwestern Bell/Pacific Bell Internet updated their hardware and software and generally rearranged the furniture without telling anyone.  Everybody’s been having trouble.  On advice from another user, we changed news servers to news.flash.net and hoping that posts will go through.  This lurking business is the pits.  Was about to use voodoo or something, sprinkle salt on the phone lines, call in an exorcist…. Please let us know how this goes. Bob & his wife in El Paso

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A real sorry would be much more sincere. <g (I had to do it for Zimbo) — Charlie…

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A real sorry would be much more sincere. <g (I had to do it for Zimbo)

And I thank you from the bottom of my dweller –Steve

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listen, newbie: you call me sorry one more time and you’re *gonna* be!         wayno, the scourge of chambana   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Response:

Question:

: Can you help?  My brother-in-law enjoys flyfishing (mostly in Michigan where : he lives).  We will be vacationing together this August in Boothbay Harbor, : Maine and I would like to be able to point him to a good spot to go : flyfishing. : If you have any suggestions, I would be glad to pass them along.  He would : be most interested in a spot which would be an easy drive from Boothbay. : Thanks, : Bob LaMontagne : Cincinnati, OH The Atlantic Ocean. He can use his fresh water rod and 4 feet of 4 pound tippet with small clousers to catch macks and schoolies, which are likely to be 95%-100% of his hhok ups. If he hangs a big striper, he will have a hell of a great time trying to get him in. Tell him to be SURE to wash all his gear in fresh water after each trip. This means pop the spool out of the reel and wash all the rod guides.

Response:

Boothbay has a number of ponds that are very good fishing. Smallmouth bass will readily take poppers and yellow deerhair bugs in the early morning and evening hours. If he wants to try ocean fly fishing, there are stripped Bass that run 12 to 40 inches, mackerel run 8 to 20 inches and Bluefish up to 25 pounds.     I f he wants landlocked salmon and brook trout, he’ll have to fish tiny dries or nymphs on bottom. If you need to know more or want to purchase flies designed for the fishing here, you can contact me at http://www.kynd.com/~ronmcq/fsf/fsf.html Ron McKusick Featherside Flies Corinna Maine – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can you help?  My brother-in-law enjoys flyfishing (mostly in Michigan where he lives).  We will be vacationing together this August in Boothbay Harbor, Maine and I would like to be able to point him to a good spot to go flyfishing. If you have any suggestions, I would be glad to pass them along.  He would be most interested in a spot which would be an easy drive from Boothbay. Thanks, Bob LaMontagne Cincinnati, OH

Response:

Can you help?  My brother-in-law enjoys flyfishing (mostly in Michigan where he lives).  We will be vacationing together this August in Boothbay Harbor, Maine and I would like to be able to point him to a good spot to go flyfishing.

Grand Lake Stream (between two lakes in Washington Cty.) has (or used to have) landlocked salmon and trout as well as bass and may be the closest to Mount Desert I.  Check whether any of the Atlantic salmon rivers in August, possibly the Dennys or Machias. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

Response:

Can you help?  My brother-in-law enjoys flyfishing (mostly in Michigan where he lives).  We will be vacationing together this August in Boothbay Harbor, Maine and I would like to be able to point him to a good spot to go flyfishing. If you have any suggestions, I would be glad to pass them along.  He would be most interested in a spot which would be an easy drive from Boothbay. Thanks, Bob LaMontagne Cincinnati, OH

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Question:

I would love to learn how to fly fish – my son gave me a fly rod and reel for fathers day 3 years ago.  With it came some line and a leader – someone told me I need some backing.  What is that for?  How do I learn to cast? What about tying flys on my line?  Can you help? Thanks

Hi Barry I think the best way to learn to fly fish is from a friend and joining your local fly fishing club is a good way to find that friend. Call the Federation of Fly Fishers (406-585-7592) and see if there is a club near you. If none are avaiable your local fly shop is a good place to start. An hour or two invested in casting lesson with a professonal can save you years of frustration trying to learn by yourself. Good luck and keep us posted on your progress. — Tight Lines ….. Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Catalog,Tips & Tricks, Fishing Reports, & NeverSink at: http://www.btsflyfishing.com

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I would love to learn how to fly fish – my son gave me a fly rod and reel for fathers day 3 years ago.  With it came some line and a leader – someone told me I need some backing.  What is that for?  How do I learn to cast? What about tying flys on my line?  Can you help? Thanks

Response:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I would love to learn how to fly fish – my son gave me a fly rod and reel for fathers day 3 years ago.

Was it for Fathers’ Day because it came without documentation; you know, real men don’t read directions anyway. . .  With it came some line and a leader – someone told me I need some backing.  What is that for?

Backing is a small diameter, lightweight woven line that gets attached to the arbor of the spool of your reel, then tied onto your fly line. If you put just the fly line on the spool, you’ll see there’s probably space left over at the outer edges of the spool.  The backing takes up this extra space, but from the bottom.  The backing also serves as extra line in case you catch a really big fish (or a truck) and all your fly line gets taken from the spool.  Thus the phrase: "Man, that fish took me into my backing."  Lacking some sort of booklet giving you the capacity of your reel using different line sizes–oh, didn’t I mention fly line comes in various diameters and lengths?–take the reel and fly line down to your local fly shop, and ask them nicely if they’ll put the backing and fly line on the reel for you.[Image] They’ll be glad to do it, because you’re going to be buying lots of other stuff there, either now or later, but it’s inevitable.  How do I learn to cast? What about tying flys on my line?  Can you help?

I can’t help, but there are several books that can.  While you’re down at your local fly shop (not the fishing dept. at Walmart, please) look over their selection.  I have heard somewhere that flyfishing has the most extensive literature of any blood sport, and I half believe it. After 20 years, still the best book for absolute tyros is "The Curtis Creek Manifesto" by Richard Sheridan.  Don’t let the comic book format put you off.  The book addresses just about every topic for which the beginner has questions.  It’ll hold you for a couple of seasons. And, of course, for the most experts per square byte, don’t forget this newsgroup, ROFF. Good luck, Anglerboy — Trout fear me, Women want me. http://www.midtown.net/~angler/ Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITEI would love to learn how to fly fish – my son gave me a fly rod and reel <BRfor fathers day 3 years ago.</BLOCKQUOTE Was it for Fathers’ Day because it came without documentation; you know, real men don’t read directions anyway. . . <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE&nbsp;With it came some line and a leader – someone <BRtold me I need some backing.&nbsp; What is that for?</BLOCKQUOTE Backing is a small diameter, lightweight woven line that gets attached to the arbor of the spool of your reel, then tied onto your fly line.&nbsp; If you put just the fly line on the spool, you’ll see there’s probably space left over at the outer edges of the spool.&nbsp; The backing takes up this extra space, but from the bottom.&nbsp; The backing also serves as extra line in case you catch a really big fish (or a truck) and all your fly line gets taken from the spool.&nbsp; Thus the phrase: "Man, that fish took me into my backing."&nbsp; Lacking some sort of booklet giving you the capacity of your reel using different line sizes–oh, didn’t I mention fly line comes in various diameters and lengths?–take the reel and fly line down to your local fly shop, and ask them nicely if they’ll <PThey’ll be glad to do it, because you’re going to be buying lots of other stuff there, either now or later, but it’s inevitable. <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE&nbsp;How do I learn to cast? <BRWhat about tying flys on my line?&nbsp; Can you help?</BLOCKQUOTE I can’t help, but there are several books that can.&nbsp; While you’re down at your local fly shop (not the fishing dept. at Walmart, please) look over their selection.&nbsp; I have heard somewhere that flyfishing has the most extensive literature of any blood sport, and I half believe it.&nbsp; After 20 years, still the best book for absolute tyros is "The Curtis Creek Manifesto" by Richard Sheridan.&nbsp; Don’t let the comic book format put you off.&nbsp; The book addresses just about every topic for which the beginner has questions.&nbsp; It’ll hold you for a couple of seasons. <PAnd, of course, for the most experts per square byte, don’t forget this newsgroup, ROFF. <PGood luck, <BRAnglerboy <P– <BRTrout fear me, <BRWomen want me. <BR<A HREF="http://www.midtown.net/~angler/"http://www.midtown.net/~angler/</A <BR&nbsp;</HTML Content-Type: image/jpeg Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="C:tempnsmail8H.jpeg" <encoded_portion_removed FFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQB//2Q==

Response:

I would love to learn how to fly fish – my son gave me a fly rod and reel for fathers day 3 years ago.  With it came some line and a leader – someone told me I need some backing.  What is that for?

Strong cheap line between the reel core and the expensive fly line (1) so the fly line does not get too curly by being wound up tight, (2) in case you hook such a big fish that he can pull out all the fly line before you play and land him.  How do I learn to cast?

As posted elsewhere, club membership is the single best bet. If locally unavailable, there are excellent books: look in the library for Joe Brooks. There are also videos nowadays, about both casting technique and how to interpret the water. What about tying flys on my line?  

Knots are needed to attach: — fly hook to fine nylon tippet, e.g. turle knot, — tippet to heavier nylon leader, e.g. blood knot, — leader to fly line  ) both use the — fly line to backing ) needle or nail knot — backing to reel. Nylon (leader material) requires special knots because it is so slippery. Good guidebooks show in pictures how to tie them. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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Question:

says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Does anyone have information about fishing in Huatulco/Puerto Escondido, Mexico area? I am planning a trip for mid august, but the only problem is, with less then a month left, I still have no idea what to expect. I will only be able to bring a 7/8 weight, and I will probably fish the bays in Huatulco and Puerto Angel….any other hot spots in the area???? I need to know what kind of fish are availible to me, and of course what flies (specific patterns?) or type of flies (shrimp? baitfish?) and what sizes i should tie them in….also handy would be possibly guide recommendations and leader strengths? Actually, any information at all would be great! I just need all the help I can get! Anyway, if you have any ideas, please either email me OR reply to this message!                                            Thanks in advance,                                                    Scott                                  

Sorry to confuse people, i meant Huatulco/Puerto Escondido of the Oaxaca, Mexico area.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone have information about fishing in Huatulco/Puerto Escondido, Mexico area? I am planning a trip for mid august, but the only problem is, with less then a month left, I still have no idea what to expect. I will only be able to bring a 7/8 weight, and I will probably fish the bays in Huatulco and Puerto Angel….any other hot spots in the area???? I need to know what kind of fish are availible to me, and of course what flies (specific patterns?) or type of flies (shrimp? baitfish?) and what sizes i should tie them in….also handy would be possibly guide recommendations and leader strengths? Actually, any information at all would be great! I just need all the help I can get! Anyway, if you have any ideas, please either email me OR reply to this message!                                 Thanks in advance,                                 Scott

            at:<http://www.geocities/thetropics/4888 They specialize in Baja Fishing only !!!

Response:

Does anyone have information about fishing in Huatulco/Puerto Escondido, Mexico area? I am planning a trip for mid august, but the only problem is, with less then a month left, I still have no idea what to expect. I will only be able to bring a 7/8 weight, and I will probably fish the bays in Huatulco and Puerto Angel….any other hot spots in the area???? I need to know what kind of fish are availible to me, and of course what flies (specific patterns?) or type of flies (shrimp? baitfish?) and what sizes i should tie them in….also handy would be possibly guide recommendations and leader strengths? Actually, any information at all would be great! I just need all the help I can get! Anyway, if you have any ideas, please either email me OR reply to this message!                                             Thanks in advance,                                                       Scott                                  

Response:

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Larry-  Most knot strength tests are done with dry monofilament that is tied and tested while dry. This results in a meaningless number for anglers. As an example: The highly touted Orvis and monofilament loop knots are very strong when dry but fall far short of the uni-knot (Duncan knot) after the monofilament becomes wet.    Our strain gauge device (calibrated to .001 lbs) has no opinions and gives us the following results on knots tied with dry monofilament that are then soaked in distilled water for 45 minutes at room temp. The following percentages are the average of 20 knots tied from three different spools of factory fresh 3x Dai Rikki Velvet. Velvet was used because it has the most consistant breaking factor of any tippet material we have tested.    Loop Knots:    Bimini-100 percent, Uni knot- 96 percent, Monofilament loop- 87 percent, Perfection- 85 percent, 2X surgeons- 68 percent, 4X surgeons- 68 percent, 6X surgeons-81 percent, 7X surgeons-73 percent.    FYI: the best tippet to fly loop is the Uni knot at 96 percent.         the best tippet to fly non-loop is the Trilene knot at 100 percent.         the best mono to mono connection is the 6x blood knot at 68 percent.         the despised wind knot tests at a relatively strong 87 percent.   -Ralph

DEAR RALPH:  I disagree with the majority of your tests.  Are you just using a regular pull scales or what?  And the Dai Rikki comment I also don’t agree solidly with, but I don’t want to argue this with you because I don’t know what your controls are and the fact the IGFA specifies along with a breaking +/- % centage that there are more than one mono product(s) that breaks EXACTLY where they should and at EXACTLY the same breaking points in percentages in order to set "World Recognized IGFA Records".  MAXIMA is one such product along with Andre, Trileen, etc.  This is what makes your "most consistant comment" void (or dubious)and really, frankly biased in the face of real (already established) scientific facts compared to our and other scientific laboratory tests which have been conducted by major monofiliment companies.  Yet, I am pleased you are getting into this field and that your interests are so strong.  I hope you continue it, but I think you should ‘rethink’ your approach and possibly revisit your testing equipment and/or procedures.  Test should be run both dry and wet and off the same spool stock or batch.  Etc, etc.  But I find serious disagreement with your percentages.  Our recent tests with Knot-Perfect Knot Lube certainly changes the entire realm of how knots should behave and function.  For true uniformity, this product will definately change test results . . . and all "CONSISTANTLY for the Better".  I will send you some for your testing as a sponsor and supporter in your work, if you like.  Just need a mailing address Ralph.   Mr. G.

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Hi George-  Your letter is responding to Ralph H, not me, Ralph Cutter. Non-the-less I found your post amusing, and left me with a few questions: This is why I always fish with Maxima because I have a lifetime of fishing experience with this ONE BRAND.  Every knot I tie in it is known. . . Now, this statement is about as bold as you can do, but lets face it.  I know what the hell I’m doing. . .  It means consistant breaking

or parting percentages every time.    I’m curious as to why you chose Maxima. Of ALL the lines we have tested it is the most inconsistent. The diameter, color and strength vary greatly from spool to spool and we’ve noted up to .02 differences in the same spool. This is an observation made by several different line testers.   Maxima is an old product. Over the past decade Polymer technologies have advanced almost as fast as computers. My old Kaypro was fine in its time, but in the case of plastics and computers newer is better. A breaking scale does not a scientist make.  

   That is why we employed a polymer chemist to help us with our testing parameters. Much of the actual testing was done by an engineer with thirty years of stress analysis at Lockheed and Kaiser. I also know that there are much more consistant breaking and more reliable tippet materials than those bragged about.

Please share these with us. I was also amused by your previous post stating saying your knot glue was a new and revoltionary concept that could change the face of flyfishing. Forty years ago Herter’s sold a glue that was guaranteed to make monolfilament knots 100 percent. When nylon was introduced, many knot glue products were sold to help people with this new slippery material. A good product probably; revolutionary, hardly. I agree fully with the concept of your glue. ZAP A GAP and PVC cement do the same. Ralph and Lisa Cutter. California School of Flyfishing http:www/flyline.com  /v/                             /v/

Response:

If Tony and Spinolio got married they’d have offspring named Toniolio.

Easy for you, Tim to ponder Tony’s mating habits when your mouth has obviously been surgically attached to his fat ass <G. For the record, I have a tube of George’s knot-goop *and* I agree with Tony…noone I know would fool with it astream…a little spit-tle do ya…it snot that big of thing…

For the record I *don’t* have a tube and would never buy one (come fishing with me, Tim, and you’ll see how I tie knots). My post was in response to Gades telling George to stop posting, as if this were something Gades has the power to do. (Note to Gades: I got your big, bad hate mail, just as other people warned me I would. Apparently you’re becoming famous for this sort of thing. Very scary, but don’t flatter yourself…I would never actually email you).   No good will become the fellow that needs lubricant to tie a knot.

Don’t look at me, you’re the one who bought it. Spinolio

Response:

Hi Rick-   The Orvis Knot and the Mono loop knot tested virtually the same. E mail me your postal address and I’ll send you more data.   -Ralph

Ralph, I notice you have a web site. Maybe you could put your results up there (so you don’t have dozens of us requesting copies in the mail). Thanks for the informative posts. Jim Ralph and Lisa Cutter. California School of Flyfishing http:www/flyline.com /v/                            /v/

– Opinions expressed are my own, and not those of my employer.

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  If they’re knot tests, then what are they ? Must be naught tests. Anglerboy — Trout fear me, Women want me.

Great .sig file Anglerboy !.  You gotta love it… — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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It is extremely easy to see why you, based on your cumulative "contibutions" to date, would be intimidated by posts that demonstrate an active thought process.

Let me know when you come up with one. As for the streamside choice, I applaud your choosing knot-goop.

I would only choose a tube of knot-goop over your company… better conversation. It is consistent with the fact that you don’t actually fish.

Yeesh… ya really got me with that one, Tony. Same to you, only double! Ha! I’ve been to your masturbatory web site… are you the fat, ugly cosksucker holding the dead fish or is that your Orvis-endorsed guide. Spinolio

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If they’re knot tests, then what are they ? TimW Halfordian Golfer

As you can tell from the way these threads are unspooling, the answer to that question is still tied up in debate.  If I understand these tests correctly, we should all start using distilled water and George’s goop — they’ll make our knots so strong we’ll be uprooting trees every time we try to yank a fly free from a limb. John

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly   (much blather snipped)   Please don’t waste our time by quoting the results of some knot test   that used your knot-liquid.  It is of no use since nobody I know would   bother with such a product streamside.   Considering the pompous and snotty nature of your posts, Tony, I can’t   imagine anyone I know bothering with such a product as *you*, streamside   or otherwise. Faced with a choice, George’s knot-goop wins hands down.   Spinolio It is extremely easy to see why you, based on your cumulative "contibutions" to date, would be intimidated by posts that demonstrate an active thought process.

.. hmmm sounds interesting Mr Gades. Based on your CV (checked out that web site you advertise) this is something you know a thing or two about. Sometime maybe you’ll take a break from being crabby and give us a demo! 8^) Ralph H (just a simple dip shit) " … the sabbath rang slowly in the pebbles of the holy streams!" Dylan Thomas, "Fern Hill" " One man free to love his minute   in the realms of flesh and sun   breaks down more pain than ages   of humane law or lawyers can." Leonard Cohen, " Crying, Come Back, Hero"

Response:

Hi Jon-   We found that as monofilament soaks up water it becomes increasingly vulnerable to cutting itself with tight radius knots (mono loop and wind knots). Clinching type knots (Uni-knot) actually often became a bit stronger, possibly because the swelling of the monofilament created a tighter grip.    When developing testing parameters we put knotted lines in water and tested knots at 5 minute intervals. After about 30 minutes the changes were no longer noticable. For the hell of it we let the lines soak for an additional 15 minutes simply to be sure they were soaked to capacity.    The IGFA also soaks lines before subjecting them to class rating tests.    -Ralph Ralph, I am curious why you use 45 min. soaking. I can see wetting having one or more of several effects. 1) just surface coating which may affect surface tension or lubricity of the knots in some way and possibly affecting cinching or stress production in the knot and 2) interaction with the plastic polymer which would imply some sort of penetration into the plastic and a change of its physical characteristics. #1 would happen immediately upon wetting and #2 may be time-dependent based on the permeability of the plastic. A grey-zone might occur if #1 was the main effect but the water required time to penetrate the knot. It would be easy to test by looking at change in breaking strength over time of a wet strand in the absence of a knot. Any comments? Just curious. Jon

Ralph and Lisa Cutter. California School of Flyfishing http:www/flyline.com  /v/                             /v/

Response:

  If they’re knot tests, then what are they ? Must be naught tests. Anglerboy — Trout fear me, Women want me.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (much blather snipped) Please don’t waste our time by quoting the results of some knot test that used your knot-liquid.  It is of no use since nobody I know would bother with such a product streamside. Considering the pompous and snotty nature of your posts, Tony, I can’t imagine anyone I know bothering with such a product as *you*, streamside or otherwise. Faced with a choice, George’s knot-goop wins hands down. Spinolio Right on! It’s about time somebody called-out this Gades character. I’ve yet to read a post where he didn’t come off as being pompous and rude.

If Tony and Spinolio got married they’d have offspring named Toniolio. Whydoncha relax a notch swatson ? For the record, I have a tube of George’s knot-goop *and* I agree with Tony…noone I know would fool with it astream…a little spit-tle do ya…it snot that big of thing… No good will become the fellow that needs lubricant to tie a knot. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

(much blather snipped) Please don’t waste our time by quoting the results of some knot test that used your knot-liquid.  It is of no use since nobody I know would bother with such a product streamside. Considering the pompous and snotty nature of your posts, Tony, I can’t imagine anyone I know bothering with such a product as *you*, streamside or otherwise. Faced with a choice, George’s knot-goop wins hands down. Spinolio

Right on! It’s about time somebody called-out this Gades character. I’ve yet to read a post where he didn’t come off as being pompous and rude.

Response:

Hi Rick-    The Orvis Knot and the Mono loop knot tested virtually the same. E mail me your postal address and I’ll send you more data.    -Ralph – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Great post!!   I was wondering, you mention that the Orvis knot was "far short of the Uni-knot" but you didn’t give a percentage.  I tend to like the Orvis knot because of it’s ease in tying and the thought that it was so strong. Also, I think a comparision of Wet to Dry Knot strenths would be very interesting.  Do you have that kind of data?   I have never considered the Duncan Loop to be a very strong knot but your data does not support this idea. Once agin, thanks for the information and keep up the good work. Rick Richard Padgett

Ralph and Lisa Cutter. California School of Flyfishing http:www/flyline.com  /v/                             /v/

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly   Organization: Gehrke’s Gink/Xink Fly Fishing Products Company   DEAR RALPH:  I disagree with the majority of your tests.   Mr. G. Mr. Cutter clearly laid out the results of clearly explained experiments. There is nothing to "disagree" with unless you are claiming that he lied. , While I found the info interesting it has to be noted that no experiment is valid beyond the parameters of it’s design. For example who fishes in distilled water? Who soaks their leader in water for 45 minutes and why was that time period chosen (was it chosen arbitrarily?) Leaders are in the water usually for no more than a few minutes and then dried – at least partially – by casting. Do we know the extent of saturation of a typical leader on an average day? What was the precise breaking strain of the mono before the knot was tied? What was the breaking strain of the knot? what was the degree of confidence in the test? None the less the relative breaking strains of the knots are informative. AND! George seems to have thrown down a gauntlet regarding the effectiveness of his knot goop. I for one would be fascinated by an independent before and after sort of comparison. Ralph H (just a simple dipshit 8^) ) "…      the sabbath rang slowly      in the pebbles of the holy streams!" Dylan Thomas, "Fern Hill"

RALPH, you are not a dipshit.  Christ.  Loosen up.  What you should do is reread every sentence in my answer carefully without putting words in my mouth.  Re-review the part about the IGFA and think a bit.  What I say is based on sound facts.  If you want to call someone a liar, than you should but don’t count me in on your train-of-logic because it is also incorrect.  As far as challenges are concerned regarding KNOT-PERFECT, I will say this Ralph.  I will challenge anyone in the world not to agree that Knot-Perfect, (WATCH MY WORDS!) will make any brand of tippet/leader material (KNOT FOR KNOT) a more consistant breaking knot for THAT MATERIAL.  Understand? For instance, a batch or spool of 2# test may break variously with ONE KNOT but once you use KNOT-PERFECT on that same knot each time its tied, that knot will break more consistantly AT THE SAME POUNDAGE than with any other product in the world. What this means Ralph is this.  You can train yourself with two pound test and with the same brand of mono used every time to sense or KNOW how hard to fight and pull on a fish before that brand and knot will break.  This comes with experience.  It is not learned over-night. This is why I always fish with Maxima because I have a lifetime of fishing experience with this ONE BRAND.  Every knot I tie in it is known.  A blood knot will break at a different percentage than another. Etc.  However, my friend; there are things that KNOT-PERFECT does inside a knot and too the monofiliment that no other product in the world can do.  Now, this statement is about as bold as you can do, but lets face it.  I know what the hell I’m doing.  I haven’t spend years in my chemistry lab just swatting flies on the walls.  The point is, KNOT-PERFECT takes fishermen in all catagories that are knot-perfect and makes them (you guessed it) PERFECT!  The knots aren’t burnt.  The knots are no longer chaffed or cracked under pressure, and every knot squeezes down (for THAT PARTICULAR KNOT) around where the main tippet stem enters the knot EXACTLY THE SAME AND UNDER THE SAME PRESSURE TIME AND TIME AGAIN.  This means what?  It means consistant breaking or parting percentages every time. So, if you are tying a blood-knot all the time, for each poundage at its weakest point . . . you have dialed in a confidence level never before dreamed or possible before.  A 2.1 # test tippet in a blood-knot will break (for example) at exactly 1.9 LBS. time and time again, without exception.  This has never been possible before in the entire history of fishing.  Any kind of fishing, Ralph. A breaking scale does not a scientist make.  I still do not know what kind of scales are used or the testing parimeters.  In fact, none of us do.  The variables are massive from what we read compared to our lab tests.  I still will not compound an arguement or difference of opinion but what I am saying is that the test results posted are ‘very general.’ They are general because you do not know the material diameters, the length of the male verses the female side or; the cope vs the drag side or put another way, the length of the bottom tippet verses the top? Were identical diameters used or was a two pound test tippet attached to a four pound test piece?  I also know that there are much more consistant breaking and more reliable tippet materials than those bragged about.  And I mean, by a long shot, Ralph. And no.  I don’t know everything.  I’m no smart-ass, but I’m not stupid either.  I’ve done a lot of research work in this industry Ralph and I’m not here belittle anyone.  But I am here to freely disagree when I know I’m right. I’ll leave it at that and you all can have this thread.  I’m sorry I butted in where I wasn’t wanted. Have a nice season. Mr. G. POST SCRIPT:  I was just asked what I use all the time and of course it is Maxima.  I cannot stand tippet material that snake and curl up like D.Reek/etc. does once you catch a fish and stretch it.  No Sir.  Maxima doesn’t do this and I do not like hard, slick surfaced tippet material for much the same reasons.  When I die and they bury me, they can put a spool of Maxima in my shirt pocket so I won’t run out of it in heaven. Everyone.

Response:

If they’re knot tests, then what are they ? — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly   Organization: Gehrke’s Gink/Xink Fly Fishing Products Company   DEAR RALPH:  I disagree with the majority of your tests.   Mr. G. Mr. Cutter clearly laid out the results of clearly explained experiments. There is nothing to "disagree" with unless you are claiming that he lied. ,

While I found the info interesting it has to be noted that no experiment is valid beyond the parameters of it’s design. For example who fishes in distilled water? Who soaks their leader in water for 45 minutes and why was that time period chosen (was it chosen arbitrarily?) Leaders are in the water usually for no more than a few minutes and then dried – at least partially – by casting. Do we know the extent of saturation of a typical leader on an average day? What was the precise breaking strain of the mono before the knot was tied? What was the breaking strain of the knot? what was the degree of confidence in the test? None the less the relative breaking strains of the knots are informative. AND! George seems to have thrown down a gauntlet regarding the effectiveness of his knot goop. I for one would be fascinated by an independent before and after sort of comparison. Ralph H (just a simple dipshit 8^) ) "…      the sabbath rang slowly      in the pebbles of the holy streams!" Dylan Thomas, "Fern Hill"

Response:

   Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly    (much blather snipped)     Please don’t waste our time by quoting the results of some knot test     that used your knot-liquid.  It is of no use since nobody I know would     bother with such a product streamside.    Considering the pompous and snotty nature of your posts, Tony, I can’t    imagine anyone I know bothering with such a product as *you*, streamside    or otherwise. Faced with a choice, George’s knot-goop wins hands down.    Spinolio It is extremely easy to see why you, based on your cumulative "contibutions" to date, would be intimidated by posts that demonstrate an active thought process. As for the streamside choice, I applaud your choosing knot-goop.  It is consistent with the fact that you don’t actually fish. _pompously_ yours,         -tgades — Tony Gades. Seattle, WA.  USA http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades/Fishing/fish_page.html NOTICE: DO NOT ADD MY NAME TO _ANY_ MAILING LISTS.  

Response:

example: The highly touted Orvis and monofilament loop knots are very strong when dry but fall far short of the uni-knot (Duncan knot) after the monofilament becomes wet.

Great post!!   I was wondering, you mention that the Orvis knot was "far short of the Uni-knot" but you didn’t give a percentage.  I tend to like the Orvis knot because of it’s ease in tying and the thought that it was so strong. Also, I think a comparision of Wet to Dry Knot strenths would be very interesting.  Do you have that kind of data?   I have never considered the Duncan Loop to be a very strong knot but your data does not support this idea. Once agin, thanks for the information and keep up the good work. Rick Richard Padgett

Response:

(much blather snipped) Please don’t waste our time by quoting the results of some knot test that used your knot-liquid.  It is of no use since nobody I know would bother with such a product streamside.

Considering the pompous and snotty nature of your posts, Tony, I can’t imagine anyone I know bothering with such a product as *you*, streamside or otherwise. Faced with a choice, George’s knot-goop wins hands down. Spinolio

Response:

..snip…. Our strain gauge device (calibrated to .001 lbs) has no opinions and gives us the following results on knots tied with dry monofilament that are then soaked in distilled water for 45 minutes at room temp.

…snip… Ralph, I am curious why you use 45 min. soaking. I can see wetting having one or more of several effects. 1) just surface coating which may affect surface tension or lubricity of the knots in some way and possibly affecting cinching or stress production in the knot and 2) interaction with the plastic polymer which would imply some sort of penetration into the plastic and a change of its physical characteristics. #1 would happen immediately upon wetting and #2 may be time-dependent based on the permeability of the plastic. A grey-zone might occur if #1 was the main effect but the water required time to penetrate the knot. It would be easy to test by looking at change in breaking strength over time of a wet strand in the absence of a knot. Any comments? Just curious. Jon

Response:

  Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly   Organization: Gehrke’s Gink/Xink Fly Fishing Products Company   DEAR RALPH:  I disagree with the majority of your tests.   Mr. G.

Mr. Cutter clearly laid out the results of clearly explained experiments. There is nothing to "disagree" with unless you are claiming that he lied. Quote another test, its methods and results, and to make it useful to us, skip using that knot-goop because nobody is going to bother using such a product in the real world. A trilene knot (which I primarily use) has been shown repeatedly to have a breaking strength of 100%.  The 6x blood knot ranks in around 70%.  The perfection loop ranks in around 90-100%.  These results I’ve seen repeatedly.  These are the same results found by Mr. Cutter. I see no reason to disagree. Please don’t waste our time by quoting the results of some knot test that used your knot-liquid.  It is of no use since nobody I know would bother with such a product streamside. cheers,         -tony — Tony Gades. Seattle, WA.  USA http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades/Fishing/fish_page.html NOTICE: DO NOT ADD MY NAME TO _ANY_ MAILING LISTS.  

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Larry-    Most knot strength tests are done with dry monofilament that is tied and tested while dry. This results in a meaningless number for anglers. As an example: The highly touted Orvis and monofilament loop knots are very strong when dry but fall far short of the uni-knot (Duncan knot) after the monofilament becomes wet.    Our strain gauge device (calibrated to .001 lbs) has no opinions and gives us the following results on knots tied with dry monofilament that are then soaked in distilled water for 45 minutes at room temp. The following percentages are the average of 20 knots tied from three different spools of factory fresh 3x Dai Rikki Velvet. Velvet was used because it has the most consistant breaking factor of any tippet material we have tested.    Loop Knots:    Bimini-100 percent, Uni knot- 96 percent, Monofilament loop- 87 percent, Perfection- 85 percent, 2X surgeons- 68 percent, 4X surgeons- 68 percent, 6X surgeons-81 percent, 7X surgeons-73 percent.    FYI: the best tippet to fly loop is the Uni knot at 96 percent.         the best tippet to fly non-loop is the Trilene knot at 100 percent.         the best mono to mono connection is the 6x blood knot at 68 percent.         the despised wind knot tests at a relatively strong 87 percent.

But of course.  This is the one I tie best.  Hey, if you have good eyes, they also make a half-way decent strike indicator!  :-)   -Ralph

Cheers, and tight lines. -Mark PS:  ’Love your book, Ralph.  It should be required reading for Sierra trout anglers.  Keep up the good work.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mr. Cutter clearly laid out the results of clearly explained experiments. There is nothing to "disagree" with unless you are claiming that he While I found the info interesting it has to be noted that no experiment is valid beyond the parameters of it’s design. For example who fishes in distilled water? Who soaks their leader in water for 45 minutes and why was that time period chosen (was it chosen arbitrarily?) Leaders are in the water usually for no more than a few minutes and then dried,at least partially by casting. Do we know the extent of saturation of a typical leader on an average day? What was the precise breaking strain of the mono before the knot was tied? What was the breaking strain of the knot? what was the degree of confidence in the test?

Hey dip…., You bring up some very valid points.  I don’t think the soaking time is important as long as the interval is consistant – the main thing is the line was wet (something I didn’t do when I performed a series of breaking tests). None the less the relative breaking strains of the knots are informative.

Yep, on a relative basis it is good information to know.  Regardless of what knot you use, I find one of the most important things is to make sure the knot is snugged up tight to prevent it from cutting into its’ self and breaking. -Burton — L. Burton Hawley         2330 NW Hummingbird Corvallis, OR

Response:

Hi Larry-    Most knot strength tests are done with dry monofilament that is tied and tested while dry. This results in a meaningless number for anglers. As an example: The highly touted Orvis and monofilament loop knots are very strong when dry but fall far short of the uni-knot (Duncan knot) after the monofilament becomes wet.    Our strain gauge device (calibrated to .001 lbs) has no opinions and gives us the following results on knots tied with dry monofilament that are then soaked in distilled water for 45 minutes at room temp. The following percentages are the average of 20 knots tied from three different spools of factory fresh 3x Dai Rikki Velvet. Velvet was used because it has the most consistant breaking factor of any tippet material we have tested.    Loop Knots:    Bimini-100 percent, Uni knot- 96 percent, Monofilament loop- 87 percent, Perfection- 85 percent, 2X surgeons- 68 percent, 4X surgeons- 68 percent, 6X surgeons-81 percent, 7X surgeons-73 percent.    FYI: the best tippet to fly loop is the Uni knot at 96 percent.         the best tippet to fly non-loop is the Trilene knot at 100 percent.         the best mono to mono connection is the 6x blood knot at 68 percent.         the despised wind knot tests at a relatively strong 87 percent.   -Ralph

Response:

Question:

Tom, I hate to drizzle on your parade, but I think a reasonable inference from the photos of the original 13 patterns in the Treatise (as interpreted by the famous angling historian Jack Heddon) is that at least 2 were caddis imitations, the Ruddy Fly and the Black Leaper. These are downwing flies whereas the "Dun" flies have upwings. If you agree, it means caddis imitations were among the earliest known patterns. Paul Marriner – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : Hi–   I read Wright’s 1972 book, _Fishing the Dry Fly as a Living Insect_, : with much interest.  Certainly new to me! : But did Wright invent the caddis fly, as someone posted? : Weren’t some of the earliest known flies caddis imitations? A lot of the FF tradition was brought from England, and a lot of that was, to be polite, mayflycentric ;-^) Most of the early patterns were for mayflies; it was only later that folks began to seriously imitate caddises, stoneflies, terrestrials, etc. — 3798 Woodland Drive     voice: (250) 368-9315 Trail, BC               data:  (250) 368-9341

Response:

: Hi–   I read Wright’s 1972 book, _Fishing the Dry Fly as a Living Insect_, : with much interest.  Certainly new to me! : But did Wright invent the caddis fly, as someone posted? : Weren’t some of the earliest known flies caddis imitations? A lot of the FF tradition was brought from England, and a lot of that was, to be polite, mayflycentric ;-^) Most of the early patterns were for mayflies; it was only later that folks began to seriously imitate caddises, stoneflies, terrestrials, etc. — 3798 Woodland Drive     voice: (250) 368-9315 Trail, BC               data:  (250) 368-9341

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – While Leonard Wright did not "invent" the caddisfly, it’s said he was first the white man to meet one, long ago, in the days when even insects could speak.  Mr. Wright was ever a man of edges, and curious, so he immediately proceeded to question the bug. "I watched a trout eat one of your brethren," said he.  "And since it’s widely known by narrow minds that trout eat only mayflies, I must ask: Are you merely a mayfly, rather badly bent?" The mayfly, a lady, and an elegant princess of a family ignored by anglers, demurred.  "Oh no," she whispered, and shyly lifted a folded wing, revealing herself from thorax to rounded abdomen.   "So I see," said Mr. Wright, noting the absence of tails, "and you are certainly lovely." The poor caddis, overwhelmed with pleasure, oviposited right there and then, swooned, fell to the stream and twitched twice, which caused her to be eaten by a three-pound brook trout Wright had seen it all.  He thrilled to the meeting, grasped its meaning, sat to his vise.   The rest is history, of course.  An  evolution, in a way, for imbedded in those eggs that lady caddis lay, deep in their DNA, remained a memory of Wright’s attention, captured forever in a charming moment…   And that is why, fellow anglers, that even today, a descendent of Lady Caddifly may see you on a stream, mistake you for another brave Maverick– And flutter.   From a review of <Trout Maverick in <California Fly Fisher: ….History and instruction aside, there’s another reason to read Wright carefully, perhaps the most compelling: Wright is a <thinker.  Occasionally philosophical, sentimental about split cane and gut leaders, he is most keen when he puzzles and prods, experiments, dismisses traditional assumptions when "a bleak, black day" demands something different and new.  He’s not the kind of fisher who, facing failure, will do what’s prescribed until the sun goes down; Wright wonders, tinkers and tries.  If his successes leave him with a dim view of purists, Wright certainly doesn’t blink an apology… …at the heart of Wright’s writing is appreciation for independent examination, for the willingness to study closely, trust what you see, and proceed from there.  In the end  <Trout Maverick is as heretical as this:  "…when you start observing flies and fly behavior for yourself without relying on some other man’s word, you’ll find a whole new and productive world of fishing."

  It can be discouraging wading through the newsgroups sometimes but I suspect that this is the sort of post that keeps many of us coming back. I read the post yesterday asking if Mr Wright had invented the caddisfly and simply moved on with a mental roll of my eyes.  Mriffler was inspired to greatness and my evening is better for it. I will look to his posts in the future.  

Response:

To whom it may concern, The other day I made a critical reference to the book "Fishing the Dry Fly as a Living Insect", Leonard M. Wright. My remark was about what I saw as conceipt by the author. That, I got the feeling that he thought he discovered the caddisfly. That he stores silk lines in the freezer made him an elitist prick, that sort of thing… Well…it’s funny how humility looks you up and hunts you down. I have since learned that Leonard M. Wright is a very elderly gentleman now, nearly if not ecclipsing 80. I have learned that he is a great man and a dear, dear friend to many, many of us.  I realize now that when he wrote the book initially, he really was breaking new ground.  He had every right to be proud of his discoveries.   I am ashamed of my careless and callous remarks and I apologize profusely.   What is really disturbing and humbling is that, despite my feelings and despite the fact that it is hard to read the book for those reasons, I have found myself reading it at least twice every winter for better then 10 years.  He really does have something important and useful for us to learn. Thank you, Leonard M. Wright.  I owe you a great deal. A debt that I have no idea how to repay… — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

To whom it may concern, The other day I made a critical reference to the book "Fishing the Dry Fly as a Living Insect", Leonard M. Wright. My remark was about what I saw as conceipt by the author. <etc Well…it’s funny how humility looks you up and hunts you down. I have since learned that Leonard M. Wright is a very elderly gentleman now, nearly if not ecclipsing 80. I have learned that he is a great man and a dear, dear friend to many, many of us.

<etc Thank you, Leonard M. Wright.  I owe you a great deal.

No sweat. A debt that I have no idea how to repay…

You could start by cutting out the ten to fifteen C&K-vs-C&R-everyone-else-stopped- listening-months-ago-never-ending-debate-from-Hell posts per day crap. Don’t you have a job or something? This goes for you too, Ralph. — Leonard M. Wright – Fly Fishing Legend, Inventor of the Caddis Fly

Response:

Excellent response Leo. I agree completely. Thanks,                Rick

Response:

You could start by cutting out the ten to fifteen C&K-vs-C&R-everyone-else-stopped-listening-months-ago-never-ending- debate-from-Hell posts per day crap. Don’t you have a job or something? This goes for you too, Ralph. Leonard M. Wright – Fly Fishing Legend, Inventor of the Caddis Fly

Do you remember that scene where Woody Allen pulls Marshall McLuhan out of a corner to put a windy so-and-so in his place?  From now on, whenever Moe starts to rant I will smile and think of Woody and Leonard. Keep your stick on the ice, Thos.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You could start by cutting out the ten to fifteen C&K-vs-C&R-everyone-else-stopped-listening-months-ago-never-ending- debate-from-Hell posts per day crap. Don’t you have a job or something? This goes for you too, Ralph. Leonard M. Wright – Fly Fishing Legend, Inventor of the Caddis Fly Do you remember that scene where Woody Allen pulls Marshall McLuhan out of a corner to put a windy so-and-so in his place?  From now on, whenever Moe starts to rant I will smile and think of Woody and Leonard. Keep your stick on the ice, Thos.

The best part is where Thos. says to keep your stick ….. Everyone is wright. There is tooo much egotistical BS on Roff. But hey, that’s the way its been the two years I’ve been watching -Doug

Response:

Mr. Wright,         Thank you, a million times, thank you. Bob – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You could start by cutting out the ten to fifteen C&K-vs-C&R-everyone-else-stopped- listening-months-ago-never-ending-debate-from-Hell posts per day crap.

Response:

Hi–   I read Wright’s 1972 book, _Fishing the Dry Fly as a Living Insect_, with much interest.  Certainly new to me! But did Wright invent the caddis fly, as someone posted? Weren’t some of the earliest known flies caddis imitations? vince norris

Response:

 While Leonard Wright did not "invent" the caddisfly, it’s said he was first the white man to meet one, long ago, in the days when even insects could speak.  Mr. Wright was ever a man of edges, and curious, so he immediately proceeded to question the bug.  "I watched a trout eat one of your brethren," said he.  "And since it’s widely known by narrow minds that trout eat only mayflies, I must ask: Are you merely a mayfly, rather badly bent?"  The mayfly, a lady, and an elegant princess of a family ignored by anglers, demurred.  "Oh no," she whispered, and shyly lifted a folded wing, revealing herself from thorax to rounded abdomen.    "So I see," said Mr. Wright, noting the absence of tails, "and you are certainly lovely."  The poor caddis, overwhelmed with pleasure, oviposited right there and then, swooned, fell to the stream and twitched twice, which caused her to be eaten by a three-pound brook trout  Wright had seen it all.  He thrilled to the meeting, grasped its meaning, sat to his vise.    The rest is history, of course.  An  evolution, in a way, for imbedded in those eggs that lady caddis lay, deep in their DNA, remained a memory of Wright’s attention, captured forever in a charming moment…    And that is why, fellow anglers, that even today, a descendent of Lady Caddifly may see you on a stream, mistake you for another brave Maverick–  And flutter.    From a review of <Trout Maverick in <California Fly Fisher:  ….History and instruction aside, there’s another reason to read Wright carefully, perhaps the most compelling:  Wright is a <thinker.  Occasionally philosophical, sentimental about split cane and gut leaders, he is most keen when he puzzles and prods, experiments, dismisses traditional assumptions when "a bleak, black day" demands something different and new.  He’s not the kind of fisher who, facing failure, will do what’s prescribed until the sun goes down; Wright wonders, tinkers and tries.  If his successes leave him with a dim view of purists, Wright certainly doesn’t blink an apology…  …at the heart of Wright’s writing is appreciation for independent examination, for the willingness to study closely, trust what you see, and proceed from there.  In the end  <Trout Maverick is as heretical as this:  "…when you start observing flies and fly behavior for yourself without relying on some other man’s word, you’ll find a whole new and productive world of fishing."

Response:

Question:

I have a 14ft 9/10 wt. Spey rod and I’m looking for information as to the availability of a good sink tip Spey line. Hopefully someone can point me to the right source. Thanks, MJR

Response:

I have a 14ft 9/10 wt. Spey rod and I’m looking for information as to the availability of a good sink tip Spey line. Hopefully someone can point me to the right source. Thanks, MJR

The RIO Windcutter is expensive but comes with interchangeable floating and two weights of sinking tips that match to the taper for decent spey casting. It is a shorter belly than his other line, the Accelerator.  I am not sure if the Accelerator has the removeable tips but that is a longer belly line specifically for spey casting, but not appropriate for shooting or overhand.  I think the belly on the windcutter is about 45 or 50 feet so you end up shooting your spey cast and retrieving a bit back near the belly before casting. Thw windcutter also has a removeable floating mid section and I have found that by removing this and the tip I am able to add about 25′ of leadcore, just for overhand not spey casting, but it throws it pretty good and this really gets deep. Your tackle dealer may be able to tell you more, or look RIO up – I think they are in Blackfoot, Idaho or Montana, one of the two. You could also make your own in the time-honored tradition. Cut up an 8 wt. shooting head into 5, 10, and fifteen foot pieces and put stiff mono loops on the ends, and cut off the front taper of a DT-10 line and put another loop there and this should turn over fairly decently. You need to use very heavy mono like Maxima 80 lb. or so, or strip off the plastic and make a loop with the braided core and coat with pliobond.  Going a couple of sizes lighter in the sink tips allows it to kick over easier and will work much better than trying it with 9 or 10 wt. shooting head pieces. This info is from Trey Combs big Steelhead book. Happy Steelheading, mark Vinsel — http://www.lanminds.com/local/vinnie/gallery.html

Response:

I have a 14ft 9/10 wt. Spey rod and I’m looking for information as to the availability of a good sink tip Spey line. Hopefully someone can point me to the right source. Thanks, MJR

You don’t say if you want a line for overhead, switch or speycasting… Anyway, check out http://www.teleport.com/~flyfish/speyline.html (A nice page with comprehensive info) Good luck and… /Tord Andreasson, Sweden

[ speyline.html 13K ]

*

This document was last edited: January 25, 1996SteelheadquartersQuest for the Perfect Spey Lineby Mark Bachmann, for The Fly Fishing Shop, Welches, Oregon, USA

The first thing that you will notice when listening to a gathering of two hand fly rod advocates is there are a lot of different ideas about which is the best fly line configuration. At present there are at least(8) different full floating spey line taper configurations manufaured in the USA.

At present three configurations for sinking tip lines are commonly used. We will try to make some sense of these differing approaches to fly line taper design, knowing and welcoming in advance that there will be some disagreement on some points. We will pass on the more interesting e-mail discussions and ask only that these discussions be limited to subjects thoroughly tested for several long days on-stream.

The perfect spey line would fish long, fish close, fish calm, fish wind and throw large and small flies. For the purpose of these discussions the words spey and two-hand will be used interchangeably. The lines listed in the following text are specially designed for spey or change-of-direction-roll-casting. They may not be appropriate for over head casting.Double Taper Floating Spey Lines. Double taper is the traditional fly line design for two hand fly rods. There are some obvious reasons why. A double taper is the easiest to mend at long distance. A double taper turns over smoothly. Since the belly of the line is a constant diameter there is little need to strip, coil or shoot line. Theoretically turn around time is quicker and the angler is more efficient. Besides when spey casts were first developed, the equipment of the time was more difficult to shoot line with. However double tapers often need long back loops to load the rod for long casts. These loops can get blown by the wind or get tangled in the stream side brush.Cortland or S.A. Traditional 90′ Double TaperThe traditional 90′ double taper fly line has about 76′ of belly with about 7′ of taper on each end. Taper design is dependent on the size of the line and the maufacurer who made it. I’ve met a number of anglers packing around the 120′ spey double tapers that couldn’t cast the first 90′. It takes a fair amount of practice to cast consistently 90′ and stay under control. The extra thirty feet of bulk of the 120′ spey line needs a heavier and often more expensive reel to hold it. Use the 90′ lin if it fits your conditions.Cortland or S.A., Specially designed 120′ Double Taper Spey LinesThese lines are designed for really good fly casters who fish big rivers with rods that are longer than those commonly used for steelhead fishing. However if you’re fishing a very large river and have the skill, it’s hard to cast 120′ with a 90′ fly line.Custom made, Double taper, tickler-tip spey lines. This type of double taper fly line has had part of the tip taper removed from one end andis joined to 15′ to 20′ of a smaller diameter double taper fly line. The tip is often joined to the main line with a loop to loop system. The floating tip can be removed and a sinking one added. This makes it the most adaptable spey line out there. The problem is for me that it doesn’t do anything very well. (I know I’ll get the E-mails for this one.) I have fished with anglers who can cast very well with this system however.Cortland, Step taper Double Taper Spey Line This fly line has a short belly with very long front taper on each end which descends in steps. The taper is desinged to magnify the energy flowing down the line and increase line speed at long distance. The double taper design makes long distance mending comfortable. I used one of these lines on the Deschutes River last fall for about two weeks and caught several steelhead with it. It preformed well enough during calm days but gave me fits in the wind. The test line may have been a little heavy for the rod I was using it on. I think that next fall I will try the same rod with the next size smaller line and see what happens. (I’ll keep you posted.)Weight Forward Floating Spey Lines, Royal Wulff Triangle Taper Spey LinesThis line has a continuous taper for 65′ to 80′. It has a short rear taper and then enough running line to reach a full 120′ length. The rear of the tapered head is larger than a double taper of the same weight designation. The design theory is that as the loop unrolls, a larger diameter line is forcing energy into a smaller diameter line. This helps maintan line speed. The triangle taper fly line was invented by Lee Wulff. I will make no unbiased bones about it , this is my favorite full floating fly line. If the design was good enough its good enough for me. Besides, I met Joan Wullf for the first time last fall. She sure seemed like a nice lady. I’d just as soon put the money in her pocket. This line casts long, is controllable long, casts well enough in the wind and lays the fly down delicately. Keep yours real clean with the new Scientific Anglers Fly Line Dressing.Cortland Step Taper Weight Forward Spey LinesStep tapers have a short level belly and a long front taper which is graduated in steps. It is desingned to condence energy much like the triangle taper. I’ve spent a limited amount of time on the water with this line. My partner, Mark Sensland used a weight foreward step taper line extensively on the Deschutes last fall and came back singing its praises. If you’ve seen him cover the water, it doesn’t take long to realize that he’s a man of vast steelhead experience.Rio Wind Cutter Spey Lines These 120′ lines are specifically designed for windy conditions. They have comparatively short heavy heads that are designed to turn around quickly with a shallow back loop and load the rod deeply for maximum line speed. The running line is small diameter for minimum wind resistance. I fished a couple of evenings on the Deschutes when the wind was blowing so hard that it would have been impossible for me to cast with any other line. One evening I hooked three steelhead and landed two. Beats sitting around camp. I recommend that you have one of these lines in your arsonal for those really bad days. Rio fly lines are designed by Jim Vincent of Blackfoot, Idaho. Jim is aknowlged as one of the better spey casters in the U.S. and has produced a very good video on the subject. We of course have them…$29.95. Rio Accelerator Spey Lines These lines are designed to give and extra kick at the end of the tip turn-over. They are a long belly weight forward configuration which tapers down and then once again enlarges to create extra mass near the tip.Sinking Tip Spey LinesThere are many conditions when steelhead will take a fly but they won’t rise to the surface for it. A sinking tip fly line takes the fly down to the fish’s level. The only problem is that there are many different depths and current speeds that will hold steelhead. Several sink rates are neccasary to cover all the conditions you may encounter. Carrying and changing extra fly lines can be cumbersome and time consuming. A floating line with changable sinking tips is more streamlined than carrying extra spools with different lines. It is a system that is readily adapted to the spey rod. The extra length of the spey rod gives the advantage that this loop system doesn’t have to enter the guides when stripping or casting. Since the line isn’t aerolized during the back cast any hinging effect caused by the loop conection isn’t a factor. Lines that are designed with a front taper to blend the energy flow for a specific weight of sinking tip, do turn over more controlably than a level drop conection. Staying in your casting rythem is easier if all of your sinking tips are the same weight and length and the density is varied for different sink rates.Custom, Double Taper Sinking Tip Spey LinesThis system is simply a double taper floating fly line with all or part of the tip taper chopped off and a loop installed for adding sinkingtips. Like its full floating counterpart, it doesn’t have to be stripped back to be recast. It can be mended to very long distances. It does have some design disadvantages however. If the line has enough mass to turn over a tip that is heavy enough to have an effective sink rate, the line becomes heavy enough to bog the rod down at longer casting ranges. Pulling a sunk tip to the top of the water so it can be recast, is fatiuging and more difficult to time at longer distances. Often the line must be stripped back so that the tip can be pulled to the top of the water. Because of the larger diameter of the line remaining in the guides, double taper lines don’t shoot as … read more »

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I’m going to be in Virginia, just outside of D.C. the weekend of May 18.   Is there any flyfishing in the Potomac River & Tidal Basin that time of year?  Stripers or smallmouth perhaps?  Any infomation on species, flies, locations & technique would be appreciated.  Thanks.

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I’m going to be in Virginia, just outside of D.C. the weekend of May 18.   Is there any flyfishing in the Potomac River & Tidal Basin that time of year?  Stripers or smallmouth perhaps?  Any infomation on species, flies, locations & technique would be appreciated.  Thanks.

Best bet is up the river, the further north the better.. Dickerson, Point of Rocks, Shephardstown up to Harpers Ferry. Driving time 1-2 hrs from town… -Dan-

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Answer:  Tons of fishing.  May may be chilly on the wade, but trout, smallies, largies, stripers–all will be willing.  Perhaps the best time of year, in fact.  Happy to provide more specifics (or a guided trip, if that’s your pleasure.) Dave

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I am looking for a rustic place to stay, a lodge or set of cabins, or even a very comfortable and reasonably private campground, in the Adirondacks for a family reunion (about 16 of us) in late June. Any suggestions? Steven Locke, M.D. Harvard Pilgrim Health Care 617-859-5415 voice 617-527-3343 fax

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Xref: news.telenet.net rec.outdoors.fishing.fly:25614 Path: news.telenet.net!usenet.logical.net!imci3!imci5!suck-feed.internetmci.com!n ews.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1 a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 8 I am looking for a rustic place to stay, a lodge or set of cabins, or even a very comfortable and reasonably private campground, in the Adirondacks for a family reunion (about 16 of us) in late June. Any suggestions? Steven Locke, M.D. Harvard Pilgrim Health Care 617-859-5415 voice 617-527-3343 fax

A very nice place to stay is Lapland Lake Resort in Benson/Northville, NY. (Southern Adirondacks). Lapland Lake 139 Lapland Lake Rd. Northville, NY 12134 518.863.4974 We’ve X-country skied there and have vacationed in the summer.  It was excellent.

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Steven Locke of Harvard asked: I am looking for a rustic place to stay, a lodge or set of cabins, or even a very comfortable and reasonably private campground, in the Adirondacks for a family reunion (about 16 of us) in late June. Any suggestions? A very nice place to stay is Lapland Lake Resort in Benson/Northville, NY. (Southern Adirondacks).

For northern Adirondacks, there are lakeside cabins at Lake Placid and roadside cabins in the woods at Wilderness Inn, Wilmington, and plenty more in the vicinity, some on dude ranches. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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