Question:

Bob Have you tried really small baits??   I use 3" twisty tails on a very light jig with 6lb test on tough days.  Just a thought. Merry Christmas and catch one for me cause all the water up here is hard. Steve – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I may have mentioend once or twice before that I like to play around fishing the canals when I only have a few hours to fish.  During warm weather its great.  I have found where to catch a few, and they are always there.  Not many keepers, but lots of fun on light tackle with an occassional nice fish. Since the weather turned cooler they have all disappeared.  I know the bass still have to be there somewhere.  But I can’t find them.  I have heard that when the weather turns cold they head for deeper water, but I’m talking about canals here.  What deeper water? — Bob La Londe The Security Consultant http://www.diycomponents.com 849 S Ave C Yuma, Az 85364 (928)782-9765 ofc (928)782-7873 fax ROC 103044, C-12 ROC 103047, L-67

Response:

Bob Have you tried really small baits??   I use 3" twisty tails on a very light jig with 6lb test on tough days.  Just a thought. Merry Christmas and catch one for me cause all the water up here is hard.

You have my condolences.  Down here we only have to deal with hard water in our plumbing. I’ll try some smaller stuff like that for probing the bottom.  I usually use small stuff like1/8 oz spinners when it gets tough, but I forgot about using smaller bottom probing stuff. I even just picked up some small jigs because I want to try some float and fly next weekend floating a couple miles of the Colorado river. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Steve I may have mentioend once or twice before that I like to play around fishing the canals when I only have a few hours to fish.  During warm weather its great.  I have found where to catch a few, and they are always there.  Not many keepers, but lots of fun on light tackle with an occassional nice fish. Since the weather turned cooler they have all disappeared.  I know the bass still have to be there somewhere.  But I can’t find them.  I have heard that when the weather turns cold they head for deeper water, but I’m talking about canals here.  What deeper water? — Bob La Londe The Security Consultant http://www.diycomponents.com 849 S Ave C Yuma, Az 85364 (928)782-9765 ofc (928)782-7873 fax ROC 103044, C-12 ROC 103047, L-67

Response:

I may have mentioend once or twice before that I like to play around fishing the canals when I only have a few hours to fish.  During warm weather its great.  I have found where to catch a few, and they are always there.  Not many keepers, but lots of fun on light tackle with an occassional nice fish. Since the weather turned cooler they have all disappeared.  I know the bass still have to be there somewhere.  But I can’t find them.  I have heard that when the weather turns cold they head for deeper water, but I’m talking about canals here.  What deeper water? — Bob La Londe The Security Consultant http://www.diycomponents.com 849 S Ave C Yuma, Az 85364 (928)782-9765 ofc (928)782-7873 fax ROC 103044, C-12 ROC 103047, L-67

Response:

Question:

In the case of overseas contributions there would obviously be some exceptions. Paul

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Stan, leaving mailing to the last week is fraught with danger IMO … too too easy to overcommit, or have some circumstance intervene, and some of us have a little distance to send the blighters .  Perhaps a fortnight or 3 weeks?  Even then there will still be drop-outs. Steve

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -1.  How many people should be allowed to participate in the swap. (do *not* consider the swapmeister in your opinion, I don’t care how many) 25___X__ 30_____ 35_____ 40_____ more than 40_____ 2. How many days should be alloted for sign-up? 14__X____ 21______ 30______ 3. After all are signed up, how many days alloted to send the flies in to me? 30__X____ 45______ 60______ See, now that wasn’t hard was it?  I’ll be interested to see how this breaks down. Ye Olde Slopmeister

my two cents worth Peter

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There has been some debate and opinions offered as to how to run The 3rd Annual Great Fly Swap of 2002, so I will run a little survey here and ask that only flytiers and potential swappers weigh in, hey this ain’t a big deal, just want to run a democratic swap. 1.  How many people should be allowed to participate in the swap. (do *not* consider the swapmeister in your opinion, I don’t care how many) 25_____ 30_____ 35_____ 40_____ more than 40__yes___ 20 2. How many days should be alloted for sign-up? 14___yes___ 21______ 30______ 3. After all are signed up, how many days alloted to send the flies in to me? 30__yes____ 45______ 60______ See, now that wasn’t hard was it?  I’ll be interested to see how this breaks down. Ye Olde Slopmeister

Response:

Frank, First, may I start by saying a big thank you for organising the last swap. As a reader of only 4 months standing of this newsgroup (or any newsgroup for that matter) I have enjoyed immeasurably the opportunity to tie so many flies.  I am not a production machine and cannot tie 100+ flies at one sitting (in fact I feel rather pleased if I do about 6 in an hour).  However it has given a focus for my tying and I have really enjoyed the anticipation of receiving the work of so many fellow tiers.  I for one never want to tie another Iron Blue Dun, but if I do I know a. it will take less time than before, b. I will not have to look up the pattern, and c. I’m likely to end up with a  tidier looking fly than before. My Reply to your survey Frank: Q1.    25. See above comment. Also the fewer the numbers, the lower the drop out rate, as people are more likely to meet this commitment. Q2.    21 Days is more than enough. Even for someone who is regularly away, I can usually get to a computer to download messages, and hence sign up for the swap in this time. Q3.    45 Days. To allow postage time from all over the globe. My penny’s worth. Again thanks for the experience. — Alex Bromham

Response:

Frank, First, may I start by saying a big thank you for organising the last swap.

Thanks for the kind words Alex, you guys need to realize I’m getting more fun out of this than ya’ll are.  Your input on the survey is also appreciated, and I will keep all the replies in mind, then do it how I dang well please. (that’s my dark side coming out) <g At some point in the near future, like after the swap is completed, I will post a "lessons learned" missive for the enlightenment of all concerned. Frank Church

Response:

Hi Frank Decision as to size show be up to swiepmeister. How much work is he willing to do. A short signup time – 7 days is enough. Bigger the swap – the longer is needed. 60 days for 40 flies seems about right! Paul – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There has been some debate and opinions offered as to how to run The 3rd Annual Great Fly Swap of 2002, so I will run a little survey here and ask that only flytiers and potential swappers weigh in, hey this ain’t a big deal, just want to run a democratic swap. 1.  How many people should be allowed to participate in the swap. (do *not* consider the swapmeister in your opinion, I don’t care how many) 25_____ 30_____ 35_____ 40_____ more than 40_____ 2. How many days should be alloted for sign-up? 14______ 21______ 30______ 3. After all are signed up, how many days alloted to send the flies in to me? 30______ 45______ 60______ See, now that wasn’t hard was it?  I’ll be interested to see how this breaks down. Ye Olde Slopmeister

Response:

Frank: I had to throw my 2 cents in also. Anxiously awaiting in Wyoming Bob | 1. How many people should be allowed to participate in the swap. (do *not* | consider the swapmeister in your opinion, I don’t care how many) | 25____ | 30___X__ | 35_____ | 40_____ | more than 40_____ | | 2. How many days should be alloted for sign-up? | 14__X____ | 21______ | 30______ | | 3. After all are signed up, how many days alloted to send the flies in to | me? | 30_____ | 45__X____ | 60______ |

Response:

Frank Wrote seeking our opinions on future fly swaps. I would go for 25 fliews to tie and 30 days to tie the flies after a week to sign up. Big Dale

Response:

Although I haven’t yet participated in a ROFF swap yet, I would like to, time dependant.  Here are my answers to the survey: I have no preference as to the number of tyers, but a good "completion time" period seems to be a ratio, rather than a fixed number – around 1.5 days per tyer, with minimums.  If there are, say 30 tyers, 45 days would seem to be about right and if say, 40 tyers, 60 days.  It would seem if international tyers are in the swap, 45 days would also seem about the minimum to allow for arrival, if all the tyers are in one country, 30 days would seem a minimum, even if just 12-18 tyers.  As to the number of sign-up days, I’m not sure why there needs to be a set period other than as proposed by the swapmeister, and so, therefore, I proxy my vote to the swapmeister.

Response:

Based on the replies I have seen so far, and trying to average out the results, it would seem that lowering the number of tyers is in order, and the time for signup dependant upon the number of participants sought.  Even at 40 tyers this year, I had to turn away several more.  Today, whilst awaiting the remaining 2 yet to arrive (and you know who you are!)   Yes, footdraggers extraordinaire.  I began addressing, labeling and otherwise trying to put things in order before the grand event, ie: sorting all these flies and trying not to get stuck. Another trip to the PO tomorrow as I still am short about 10 mailing boxes.  Because of the weather on the east coast, I was to be on the road today to Evington, VA. but am delayed leaving until Tuesday.  Which means I will be back home by late Wed. 7 March. Consequently, all parcels will be mailed not later than Thursday 8 March. Here is what I am leaning towards in subsequent swaps: Maximum 30 tyers 14 day signup, or 30 tyers, whichever comes first 45 days to deadline, as calculated from the end of signup For those that don’t make the cut in January, someone else can host a swap later in the year…be my guest! :-0 Frank Church

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There has been some debate and opinions offered as to how to run The 3rd Annual Great Fly Swap of 2002, so I will run a little survey here and ask that only flytiers and potential swappers weigh in, hey this ain’t a big deal, just want to run a democratic swap. 1.  How many people should be allowed to participate in the swap. (do *not* consider the swapmeister in your opinion, I don’t care how many) 25_____ 30_____ 35_____ 40__X___ more than 40_____ 2. How many days should be alloted for sign-up? 14______ 21___X___ 30______ 3. After all are signed up, how many days alloted to send the flies in to me? 30______ 45___X___ 60______ See, now that wasn’t hard was it?  I’ll be interested to see how this breaks down. Ye Olde Slopmeister

who’s doing a great job, by the way! Thanks Frank, Herman —         Cheers, Herman         Herman Nijland         Daytime webmaster         Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

Stan, leaving mailing to the last week is fraught with danger IMO … too too easy to overcommit, or have some circumstance intervene, and some of us have a little distance to send the blighters .  Perhaps a fortnight or 3 weeks?  Even then there will still be drop-outs. Steve

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -1.  How many people should be allowed to participate in the swap. (do *not* consider the swapmeister in your opinion, I don’t care how many) 25___X__ 30_____ 35_____ 40_____ more than 40_____ 2. How many days should be alloted for sign-up? 14_X_____ 21______ 30______ 3. After all are signed up, how many days alloted to send the flies in to me? 30____X__ 45______ 60______

I found there was no reward for my diligence in getting my flies in early! Frank, if you could put in a couple for the clave and send the rest back to me, I’d apprecate it.  I know of a few steelhead I want to show my Pinl Ladies to. Peter Collin

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 1.  How many people should be allowed to participate in the swap. (do *not* consider the swapmeister in your opinion, I don’t care how many) 25__XX___ 30_____ 35_____ 40_____ more than 40_____ 2. How many days should be alloted for sign-up? 14_XX_____ 21______ 30______ 3. After all are signed up, how many days alloted to send the flies in to me? 30______ 45__XX____ 60______ 4. Should nymphomaniac female fly fishers get extra flys in the swap since

they are "just learning"? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -yes_____ no______ let’s see their offerings first___XX__ only if Stan posts photos______ See, now that wasn’t hard was it?  I’ll be interested to see how this breaks down. Ye Olde Slopmeister

Response:

There has been some debate and opinions offered as to how to run The 3rd Annual Great Fly Swap of 2002, so I will run a little survey here and ask that only flytiers and potential swappers weigh in, hey this ain’t a big deal, just want to run a democratic swap. 1.  How many people should be allowed to participate in the swap. (do *not* consider the swapmeister in your opinion, I don’t care how many) 25_____ 30_____ 35_____ 40_____ more than 40_____ 2. How many days should be alloted for sign-up? 14______ 21______ 30______ 3. After all are signed up, how many days alloted to send the flies in to me? 30______ 45______ 60______ See, now that wasn’t hard was it?  I’ll be interested to see how this breaks down. Ye Olde Slopmeister

Response:

There has been some debate and opinions offered as to how to run The 3rd Annual Great Fly Swap of 2002, so I will run a little survey here and ask that only flytiers and potential swappers weigh in, hey this ain’t a big deal, just want to run a democratic swap. 1.  How many people should be allowed to participate in the swap. (do *not* consider the swapmeister in your opinion, I don’t care how many) 25_____ 30_____ 35_____ 40_____ more than 40_____

20 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 2. How many days should be alloted for sign-up? 14___X___ 21______ 30______ 3. After all are signed up, how many days alloted to send the flies in to me? 30__X____ 45______ 60______ See, now that wasn’t hard was it?  I’ll be interested to see how this breaks down. Ye Olde Slopmeister

Response:

1.  How many people should be allowed to participate in the swap. (do *not* consider the swapmeister in your opinion, I don’t care how many)

Aside from concern for the swapmeister, quantity wasn’t a big deal for me. Because I’m still honing what few skills I have, being forced to tie a LOT of flies was actually a good thing for me this time.   Just for sheer time & quantites of material, however, more than 40 would be quite a burden for some, I’d expect.   30 seems like a nice number. 2. How many days should be alloted for sign-up?

14.   Anybody who can’t make up their mind in two weeks is going to have a tough time getting their flies tied on time <g. 3. After all are signed up, how many days alloted to send the flies in to me?

That would depend on question #1 wouldn’t it?   60 days was comfortable for me to tie 40 flies; but I was done early so I’ll say 45 days. Joe F.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There has been some debate and opinions offered as to how to run The 3rd Annual Great Fly Swap of 2002, so I will run a little survey here and ask that only flytiers and potential swappers weigh in, hey this ain’t a big deal, just want to run a democratic swap. 1.  How many people should be allowed to participate in the swap. (do *not* consider the swapmeister in your opinion, I don’t care how many) 25_____ 30___X__ 35_____ 40_____ more than 40_____ 2. How many days should be alloted for sign-up? 14______ 21___X___ 30______ 3. After all are signed up, how many days alloted to send the flies in to me? 30______ 45____X__ 60______ See, now that wasn’t hard was it?  I’ll be interested to see how this breaks down. Ye Olde Slopmeister

Response:

1.  How many people…..

The more the merrier 2.  How many days…..

Swapmeisters discretion 3.  How many days…..

Ditto. Wolfgang

Response:

1.  How many people should be allowed to participate in the swap. (do *not* consider the swapmeister in your opinion, I don’t care how many)

30 works for me. 2. How many days should be alloted for sign-up?

14.  Hell, it took less time than that to get 40 tiers this time, didn’t it? 3. After all are signed up, how many days alloted to send the flies in to me?

45 Keith

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There has been some debate and opinions offered as to how to run The 3rd Annual Great Fly Swap of 2002, so I will run a little survey here and ask that only flytiers and potential swappers weigh in, hey this ain’t a big deal, just want to run a democratic swap. 1.  How many people should be allowed to participate in the swap. (do *not* consider the swapmeister in your opinion, I don’t care how many) 25_____ 30__X___ 35_____ 40_____ more than 40_____ 2. How many days should be alloted for sign-up? 14___X___ 21______ 30______ 3. After all are signed up, how many days alloted to send the flies in to me? 30__X____ 45______ 60______ See, now that wasn’t hard was it?  I’ll be interested to see how this breaks down. Ye Olde Slopmeister

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 1.  How many people should be allowed to participate in the swap. (do *not* consider the swapmeister in your opinion, I don’t care how many) 25_____ 30_____ 35_____ 40_____ more than 40___X__ 2. How many days should be alloted for sign-up? 14___X___ 21______ 30______ 3. After all are signed up, how many days alloted to send the flies in to me? 30__X___ 45______ 60______

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 1.  How many people should be allowed to participate in the swap. (do *not* consider the swapmeister in your opinion, I don’t care how many) 25____Y 30_____ 35_____ 40_____ more than 40_____   2. How many days should be alloted for sign-up? 14_____Y 21______ 30______ 3. After all are signed up, how many days alloted to send the flies in to me? 30______ 45_____Y 60______

Steve

Response:

1.  How many people should be allowed to participate in the swap. 25__X__ 2. How many days should be alloted for sign-up? 14__X___ 3. After all are signed up, how many days alloted to send the flies in to me? 30__X___ I think the major problem we have is too long a lag from signup to delivery and thus the 5-6 dropouts we’ve seen in the last two swaps.  I would suggest a 30 day window for tying and mailing but suggest that nobody mail them in until the last week.  At that time we should ask again who’s in and out and we can adjust the final count before mailing in so many extras.  I don’t mind tying extras, when I’m in production mode, I tie a dozen or so extras for my fly box anyways.  I like the idea of making a set or two for handing out as a clave donation, but 5-6 is pushing it. –Stan

Response:

Question:

What do you not like about fly fishing today? Today? Well, it was a bitch to get a good soft drop over the cube walls, steeple casts are bitch with a 10 foot ceiling, and I kept foul-hooking our group secretary. /daytripper (I need a 4 foot rod for "office fishing", I think…)

I got one you can try.  Shall I bring it to the Spring Fling?

Response:

What do you not like about fly fishing today?

Mostly that it didn’t happen today.

Response:

Yes, I too fear those menacing gun-toting steaks.

Yeah, but they’re pretty rare.

Response:

Yes, I too fear those menacing gun-toting steaks. Yeah, but they’re pretty rare.

LMAO!

Response:

What do you not like about fly fishing today?

Stupid questions.      - Ken — "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the  initiative in creating the Internet."  - Al Gore

Response:

What do you not like about fly fishing today?

It’s too cold out; most of the ponds are still frozen. And don’t get me started about the high country. I’m not too crazy about the gun-toting snakes either. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyo Before you buy.

Response:

What do you not like about fly fishing today?

all the damn people in my way as i try to shoot 150 yards over/under/through endangered rhododendron on quismeahss creek…. pisses me off !!! another pisser…. uhmm…. dumb queries. waldo

Response:

Yes, I too fear those menacing gun-toting steaks. Opie in NC – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What do you not like about fly fishing today? It’s too cold out; most of the ponds are still frozen. And don’t get me started about the high country. I’m not too crazy about the gun-toting snakes either. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyo Before you buy.

Response:

You should see the English ones !  Drive you mad they can ! TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

Response:

Yes, I too fear those menacing gun-toting steaks. Yeah, but they’re pretty rare.

Mostly.  But there’s one TBone that tends to be over done.

Response:

What do you not like about fly fishing today?

Response:

What do you not like about fly fishing today?

Today? Well, it was a bitch to get a good soft drop over the cube walls, steeple casts are bitch with a 10 foot ceiling, and I kept foul-hooking our group secretary. /daytripper (I need a 4 foot rod for "office fishing", I think…)

Response:

Question:

Can anyone recommend a good area to fish in the Myrtle Beach (Indian Wells) area. I’ll be down there the end of April. Last time I was down there I didn’t do any fishing but it seemed like access would be a problem to some promising looking areas. Thanks… Bill

Response:

William, I’ve been gone from there since ‘92 and really don’t know what is now part of some monsterous resort but I used to access the salt marshes at Little River and down towards Murrells Inlet, Pauley’s, and Georgetown. at that time I did not fly fish at that time but when the tide was running right, usually had a good shot at redfish. There is a state park in Murrells Inlet which gave good access to the ocean if surf fishing is in your cards. Wayne – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can anyone recommend a good area to fish in the Myrtle Beach (Indian Wells) area. I’ll be down there the end of April. Last time I was down there I didn’t do any fishing but it seemed like access would be a problem to some promising looking areas. Thanks… Bill

Response:

Thanks Wayne…Bill

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – William, I’ve been gone from there since ‘92 and really don’t know what is now part of some monsterous resort but I used to access the salt marshes at Little River and down towards Murrells Inlet, Pauley’s, and Georgetown. at that time I did not fly fish at that time but when the tide was running right, usually had a good shot at redfish. There is a state park in Murrells Inlet which gave good access to the ocean if surf fishing is in your cards. Wayne Can anyone recommend a good area to fish in the Myrtle Beach (Indian Wells) area. I’ll be down there the end of April. Last time I was down there I didn’t do any fishing but it seemed like access would be a problem to some promising looking areas. Thanks… Bill

Response:

Question:

Don’t tell me that all of us haven’t told the occaisional little fib about where the good fishing is from time to time to keep a good spot to ourselves, or at least keep the crowd down a little. Fisherman have had a reputation for being outrageous liars since man started using worms for bait and I know we haven’t come down out of that tree yet. I have told my share in the past and i can pretty much guarantee that I will continue to do so, especially as my favorite spots become more and more crowded. Sure, the mob scene on the tailwaters can be fun, the fish still outnumber the people on most of them, but a guy has to be alone in the mountains every once in a while. John Before you buy.

Response:

Actually although not specific, these are my close in favorites. As for fishermen lying, I’m sorry but I have no reason to lie. I actually fished a lake where the bass averaged over ten pounds(had to spool a zebco 404 with35lb test to hold them out from pilings. One bass I caught out of that lake had to have his tail bent to go in a freezer door after beheading. Unfortunately the state of Florida deemed it a dieing lake and drew it down. I caught Stump knockers out of  it on the fly. I had to use a 5wt. they went 1 to 2 pounds. Right now the speck (crappy) minimum limit is 12" for Lake Monroe. If you choose not to believe it so be it. John Popp in Sanford Fl. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Don’t tell me that all of us haven’t told the occaisional little fib about where the good fishing is from time to time to keep a good spot to ourselves, or at least keep the crowd down a little. Fisherman have had a reputation for being outrageous liars since man started using worms for bait and I know we haven’t come down out of that tree yet. I have told my share in the past and i can pretty much guarantee that I will continue to do so, especially as my favorite spots become more and more crowded. Sure, the mob scene on the tailwaters can be fun, the fish still outnumber the people on most of them, but a guy has to be alone in the mountains every once in a while. John Before you buy.

Response:

Question:

If you like to watch fishing on the Outdoorlife network then goto the following site and vote for fishing/hunting or all we will be seeing is horses bicycles and kayaks http://www.greatoutdoors.com/oln/yes.html Thanks Rob

Response:

just want to let you know that i wrote a java program to constantly vote for fishing.  you should have already noticed the rapid increase in percentage points luke

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you like to watch fishing on the Outdoorlife network then goto the following site and vote for fishing/hunting or all we will be seeing is horses bicycles and kayaks http://www.greatoutdoors.com/oln/yes.html Thanks Rob

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Unfortunatly someone must have noticed and wrote a program of their own to vote for conservation…which i also like, but still want to keep fishing first. (looks like i’m just going to have to span 5 more copies of my program luke

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – X-no-archive: yes just want to let you know that i wrote a java program to constantly vote for fishing.  you should have already noticed the rapid increase in percentage points Now that explains why the numbers increased faster than I could vote. Great stuff luke.

Response:

(looks like i’m just going to have to span 5 more copies of my program

For cryin’ out loud, it’s bad enough that you engage in such puerile bullshit but to come here and brag about it reveals all the social skills of a twisted teenager and the emotional maturity of a juvenile delinquent. Go away and grow up or better yet, just go away. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

well thanks for the kind words. i just happen to like fly fishing on OLN.  Sorry you disagree. Luke. p.s. not a teenager.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (looks like i’m just going to have to span 5 more copies of my program For cryin’ out loud, it’s bad enough that you engage in such puerile bullshit but to come here and brag about it reveals all the social skills of a twisted teenager and the emotional maturity of a juvenile delinquent. Go away and grow up or better yet, just go away. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

well thanks for the kind words. i just happen to like fly fishing on OLN.  Sorry you disagree.

I don’t give a damn how many ballot boxes you can stuff. It’s not particularly clever or cute and the programming decisions of OLN, whatever the hell THAT is, really don’t have anything at all to do with flyfishing anyway. p.s. not a teenager.

Then quit acting like one. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

I apologize if i pissed anyone else off.  For those of you who don’t get OLN, its a wonderful network that has many fly fishing shows.  I just wanted to make sure fly fisherman (including myself) didn’t lose that.  This will be my last post. Again, sorry to all of those that i annoyed.  That was not my intention. Luke

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – well thanks for the kind words. i just happen to like fly fishing on OLN.  Sorry you disagree. I don’t give a damn how many ballot boxes you can stuff. It’s not particularly clever or cute and the programming decisions of OLN, whatever the hell THAT is, really don’t have anything at all to do with flyfishing anyway. p.s. not a teenager. Then quit acting like one. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

I apologize if i pissed anyone else off.  For those of you who don’t get OLN, its a wonderful network that has many fly fishing shows.  I just wanted to make sure fly fisherman (including myself) didn’t lose that.  This will be my last post. Again, sorry to all of those that i annoyed.  That was not my intention.

As Fortenberry carves another notch in his belt. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Then why get on your self-appointed high horse (yet again) and demand that he leave roff?

Because I don’t like smarmy punks bragging about doing something stupid and dishonest in the name of flyfishing. Bite me Powlesland and note the date. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

I apologize if i pissed anyone else off.  For those of you who don’t get OLN, its a wonderful network that has many fly fishing shows.  I just wanted to make sure fly fisherman (including myself) didn’t lose that.  This will be my last post. Again, sorry to all of those that i annoyed.  That was not my intention. Luke

The problem being, you’ve invalidated the survey results.  It won’t take a genius at OLN to figure somebody has spiked their results. BTW, judging by the amount Conservation went up, your little java thingy was probably doing both.   Peter

Response:

As Fortenberry carves another notch in his belt.

Always happy to be of service to honest flyfisher folk the world over. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

X-no-archive: yes Because I don’t like smarmy punks bragging about doing something stupid and dishonest in the name of flyfishing. And who appointed a pompous, pretentious, ass like yourself to be the defender of flyfishing’s "name"?

Whoa, I think ‘pretentious’ might be a little strong there… <g — Charlie…

Response:

And who appointed a pompous, pretentious, ass like yourself to be the defender of flyfishing’s "name"?

Golly, what an honor. Insults and name calling from ROFF’s premier stalker. I am humbled, sweetums. I don’t want to replace TBone in your heart of hearts but please, do think of me in your latex fantasies. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

If Jim actually does have dreams, I’d guess they involve untanned leather. 8^) RalphH – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Golly, what an honor. Insults and name calling from ROFF’s premier stalker. I am humbled, sweetums. I don’t want to replace TBone in your heart of hearts but please, do think of me in your latex fantasies. — Ken Fortenberry

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Because I don’t like smarmy punks bragging about doing something stupid and dishonest in the name of flyfishing. And who appointed a pompous, pretentious, ass like yourself to be the defender of flyfishing’s "name"?

I did, in point of fact. And your defense of less-than-honest methods has been noted in the Great Book of Karma. BMPIA. Opt out == cop-out. What’s so hard to understand?

Response:

As for "stalking", why do *you* persist on sending me private email?

Why thank you for asking, my email to you verbatim: Do you EVER post an opinion on flyfishing equipment, a trip report, an answer to a query or ANYTHING save contentious bullshit ? Seriously, Jim, I think you need to seek help, your animosity and stalking behavior is a symptom of an illness. I wish you the best, — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Do you EVER post an opinion on flyfishing equipment, a trip report, an answer to a query or ANYTHING save contentious bullshit ?

FWIW, since deja doesn’t archive ‘no archive’ posts there’s no way to answer this question to your satisfaction, but in my recollection he actually does do those things on occasion and probably more often than ‘your pal’. Just what is a ’stalker stalker’ called, anyway<g. — Charlie…

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Ken Fortenberry! snipped ravings: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Seriously, Jim, I think you need to seek help, your animosity and stalking behavior is a symptom of an illness. I wish you the best,  (NOT!)

Response:

Do you EVER post an opinion on flyfishing equipment, a trip report, an answer to a query or ANYTHING save contentious bullshit ? Yes I do. In fact I was posting quite civilly in roff for the past few months until you decided to barge in and throw insults around.

Gotta give credit where credit is due.  Jim’s been eerily civil lately.      - Ken

Response:

Yes I do. In fact I was posting quite civilly in roff for the past few months until you decided to barge in and throw insults around.

I must’ve missed all that civility, and for the record, I wasn’t insulting you, hell, I wasn’t even talking to you. I was flaming "Brown Trout" to hell and back for the twit script ballot stuffing bullshit. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – X-no-archive: yes Why thank you for asking, my email to you verbatim: So why bother emailing it to me in the first place? Harassment? Do you EVER post an opinion on flyfishing equipment, a trip report, an answer to a query or ANYTHING save contentious bullshit ? Yes I do. In fact I was posting quite civilly in roff for the past few months until you decided to barge in and throw insults around. Seriously, Jim, I think you need to seek help, your animosity and stalking behavior is a symptom of an illness. This is rich coming from roff’s resident bully. I wish you the best, And I fully intend to stand up to your abusive bluster.

______  Jim you’re welcome to slap him silly when he does become abusive.  His kind of nonsense has to stop.  It is not good for ROFF as he baits the other bottom dwellers when he behaves like this, using his daughter as an excuse to do so, behind the scenes.  He thinks he has rights!  Let’s not buy his personal problems as that excuse to behave badly here.  So far, I dread the first day he showed up here.  I wish he would just go away or get counciling at the University.  He has NOT made this news group any better after all his New Year wishes to everyone. Pathetic.  Truly pathetic and the soon everyone helps stop this kind of conduct will ROFF have a chance of becoming a pleasant place again. We will talk more about it tonight because ROFF has been a regular conversation at the chat site lately. George Gehrke   — http://www.gink.com/chat

Response:

You don’t get OLN, you didn’t even know what it was.  You just saw it and decided to be an asshole.  People who do get OLN wrote to thank me.  The reason i did it in the first place was because the ballot was already stuffed (someone else had a program running voting for something else).  We just want to keep our damn fly-fishing shows.  Since you don’t get OLN, and didn’t know what it was, why didn’t you keep your mouth shut?  Couldn’t resist the temptation to be an asshole. I don’t give a damn how many ballot boxes you can stuff. It’s not particularly clever or cute and the programming decisions of OLN, whatever the hell THAT is, really don’t have anything at all to do with flyfishing anyway.

Nothing to do with fly fishing eh?  You are an idiot. Luke

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yes I do. In fact I was posting quite civilly in roff for the past few months until you decided to barge in and throw insults around. I must’ve missed all that civility, and for the record, I wasn’t insulting you, hell, I wasn’t even talking to you. I was flaming "Brown Trout" to hell and back for the twit script ballot stuffing bullshit. — Ken Fortenberry

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… why didn’t you keep your mouth shut?  Couldn’t resist the temptation to be an asshole.

I’m not tempted to be an asshole, I AM an asshole and one of the things that really peeves me is too clever, punk twits bragging about how cute their little scams are. It’s not cute, fool. It’s dishonest, it’s stupid and bragging about it is even stupider. Take your juvenile nonsense and stick it where the sun don’t shine. Decent, honest people want nothing to do with it. Nothing to do with fly fishing eh?  You are an idiot.

If you think sitting on your twit ass in front of the boob tube has something to do with flyfishing why are you calling ME an idiot ? Here’s a clue, free of charge, TV flyfishing is about selling stuff. — Ken Fortenberry

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I’m not tempted to be an asshole, I AM an asshole and one

Enough said.

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This is .. how shall I put this politely .. low. Go chat on your nice private ginkspot, but below-the-belt attacks like this don’t belong here. And if you think they do, _you_ don’t belong here. Herman, p.o.’d – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ______  Jim you’re welcome to slap him silly when he does become abusive.  His kind of nonsense has to stop.  It is not good for ROFF as he baits the other bottom dwellers when he behaves like this, using his daughter as an excuse to do so, behind the scenes.  He thinks he has rights!  Let’s not buy his personal problems as that excuse to behave badly here.  So far, I dread the first day he showed up here.  I wish he would just go away or get counciling at the University.  He has NOT made this news group any better after all his New Year wishes to everyone. Pathetic.  Truly pathetic and the soon everyone helps stop this kind of conduct will ROFF have a chance of becoming a pleasant place again. We will talk more about it tonight because ROFF has been a regular conversation at the chat site lately. George Gehrke — http://www.gink.com/chat

–         Cheers, Herman         Herman Nijland         Daytime webmaster         Lifetime flyfisher

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Question:

Standing up in a canoe is like anything else.  Doing it right requires practice.  I’ve done it but I don’t like to stand in a canoe.  When I was looking for the boat I have now, a kayak, I received many recommendations saying that I should get a canoe.  The main point was that I could pole a WW canoe up a shallow run when, with a kayak, I’d have to get out and wade.  They had a good point and I have had to wade some chutes that I could have poled a boat up.  However, my kayak offers many advantages for a solo paddler and I normally use it for transportation to a place and then I get out and do whatever I’m going to do. Bob — —– Bob Perkins, Director of Institutional Research and Planning Methodist College Fayetteville, NC  28311                          Office: 910-630-7037

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I am considering purchasing a canoe or kayak for quick trips to the lakes, rivers and bays for fly fishing and recreation around Houston.  Most of the time I will be fishing alone, but would like to take my son or another friend at times.  Day trips only, no overnight or long journeys anticipated.   Suggestions as to canoe vs kayak and other details would be appreciated.  Size, composition, design, etc. would all be helpful.

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I am considering purchasing a canoe or kayak for quick trips to the lakes, rivers and bays for fly fishing and recreation around Houston.  Most of the time I will be fishing alone, but would like to take my son or another friend at times.  Day trips only, no overnight or long journeys anticipated.   Suggestions as to canoe vs kayak and other details would be appreciated.  Size, composition, design, etc. would all be helpful.I bought a 13 foot Navarro canoe that I like a lot.  It’s pretty light

at 58 pounds, 38 inches wide with a pretty flat bottom (flattened arch is what the brochure calls it) which gives it enough initial stability that you can actually stand up in it to cast, though I don’t very often. It’s built with resin impregnated cherry wood ribs and a fiberglass skin. It’s quite pretty to look at if that’s important to you…about $900.  It’s not designed for white water but handles very nicely on lakes and slower moving water with one or two anglers aboard. E-mail me if you have any questions…We-No-Nah makes a canoe with similar configuration, size and weight.  No wood but it’s about $150 cheaper, and they also make a good canoe.  Happy hunting. Dean Henry

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: I am considering purchasing a canoe or kayak for quick trips to the lakes, rivers and bays for I’ve never owned or tried a kayak, but my guess is they would not be a comfortable general-purpose fishing platform. I used to own a 12ft canoe that was absolutley great alone, but really could not handle two people. For two, I wouldn’t go smaller than 15ft. We have an Old Town Discovery 15"8", and like it alot. I handle it alone (car-top) always, and I’m a small guy; its 80lbs, but if you’re willing to spend more you can get much lighter canoes. Just go to a shop and pick up all the canoe maker’s sales booklets. These will explain different hull shapes, etc., and I think you’ll see what you want pretty quickly. If not, then talk to a salesperson. I don’t know how much time you’ve spent in boats or in canoes, but if you have no experience, you might find canoes a bit nervous. I think some people get used to it and some don’t; I’m not sure you can ever tell ahead of time. Just gotta try it, I guess. good luck, Jon Cook.

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Canoe probably your best bet. Its only draw back is the extra weight. I have a poke boat which is a semi covered deck, very light, kayak like boat. Its great for getting around, but forget even kneeling in it. In a canoe you could, with care, stand to cast. I. Clair

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I second the Aquaterra Keowee.  I bought the single seat model early this year and I love it.  It’s actually a pretty good fly fishing platform, but I use it mostly for getting to where I want to fish and then wading if possible.  It’s stable, lightweight, and floats in anything, but you have to sit in it, no kneeling.   Doug

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David, I e-mailed you the other day, but I think I forgot to send it. Duhh! Anyway, I’ll repeat what I wrote and you can ignore this if I did send. If you are planning to take two kids along you will need a canoe. It is challenging for three people to fly fish from a canoe. You’ll have to take turns casting. If you want to have a real blast fishing solo, try a Keowee. It is a 9 foot long, 30-40 pound heavy duty plastic molded recreational kayak. No whitewater for this baby, but it is great for poking around in places that even a canoe can’t easily get into and out of. It has just enough room for a small amount of gear and is very stable – not `tippy’ like most kayaks. Once you are in, it is nearly untippable. It takes a wee while to get used to getting in and out – not a easy as a canoe – but I love mine. My fishing friend and I each have one and we just pop them on the roof racks and off we go. They are made in the U.S. by a company called Aguaterra. They make many models, so specify the Keowee. It comes in several colours, including camo I think, and costs about $300 US. I think LL Bean sells it and maybe even Eddy Bauer. I bought mine in Maine from Maine Sport near Camden. I’ve also seen it in Kittery Maine at a large outfitter (can’t remember the name) and at the LLBean store in Freeport, Maine. In New Hampshire I have seen it in Littleton at the LaHouts Sports Store. I believe I’ve seen it in the LLBean catalog. I also use a canoe sometimes and own a float tube. I enjoy them all. Have fun with whatever you end up buying. Sandy

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I have something very similar – it’s a Creek Boat. It’s a one man, sit down low, fishing boat. It has a small livewell and a mounting block for a trolling motor and a foot steering system built in. Mine has oarlocks added also. Price is in the same range. It is a little lighter, but it is not indestructible. -Andy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I second the Aquaterra Keowee.  I bought the single seat model early this year and I love it.  It’s actually a pretty good fly fishing platform, but I use it mostly for getting to where I want to fish and then wading if possible.  It’s stable, lightweight, and floats in anything, but you have to sit in it, no kneeling.  

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In a canoe you could, with care, stand to cast.

Careful here. That is sort of like saying "in an automobile you could, with care, enter the Pikes Peak road rally".   You’d best not stand in a canoe with a rounded bottom and no keel, such as typical for whitewater.  Pick one with a wide beam, flat or shallow vee bottom and tumblehome – wider at or just above the waterline than at the gunwales. The manufacturers offer different models for various purposes. Pick one made for fishing or cargo or family use, not whitewater or fast cruising. Mark Vinsel http://www.lanminds.com/local/vinnie/gallery.html

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – David, I e-mailed you the other day, but I think I forgot to send it. Duhh! Anyway, I’ll repeat what I wrote and you can ignore this if I did send. If you are planning to take two kids along you will need a canoe. It is challenging for three people to fly fish from a canoe. You’ll have to take turns casting. If you want to have a real blast fishing solo, try a Keowee. It is a 9 foot long, 30-40 pound heavy duty plastic molded recreational kayak. No whitewater for this baby, but it is great for poking around in places that even a canoe can’t easily get into and out of. It has just enough room for a small amount of gear and is very stable – not `tippy’ like most kayaks. Once you are in, it is nearly untippable. It takes a wee while to get used to getting in and out – not a easy as a canoe – but I love mine. My fishing friend and I each have one and we just pop them on the roof racks and off we go. They are made in the U.S. by a company called Aguaterra. They make many models, so specify the Keowee. It comes in several colours, including camo I think, and costs about $300 US. I think LL Bean sells it and maybe even Eddy Bauer. I bought mine in Maine from Maine Sport near Camden. I’ve also seen it in Kittery Maine at a large outfitter (can’t remember the name) and at the LLBean store in Freeport, Maine. In New Hampshire I have seen it in Littleton at the LaHouts Sports Store. I believe I’ve seen it in the LLBean catalog. I also use a canoe sometimes and own a float tube. I enjoy them all. Have fun with whatever you end up buying. Sandy

VISUALLY SPEAKING, from an outsider’s point of view.  Visual Pollution is just as real as many other forms.  I imagine, to someone of your generation, fly fishing out of a kayak, to many of us would be like seeing a whale turd in a party punch-bowl.  You not only don’t like looking at it, you wouldn’t use it either.  Yet, float tubes are another matter and I cannot explain to you why.  Go for a canoe, my friend. nuff said. George Gehrke

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Go with a canoe.  The Keowee is a nice platform, but its carrying capacity is limited.  I know a guy who fishes out of a sea kayak, but he paddles 2-5 times a week and normally doesn’t fly fish.  It’s theoretically possible for me to fly fish out of my Prijon Taifun (kayak), but if I’m going to fly fish I’ll use the boat to get where I’m going and then wade. Bob — —– Bob Perkins, Director of Institutional Research and Planning Methodist College Fayetteville, NC  28311                          Office: 910-630-7037

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One important consideration in chosing a craft for flyfishing is comfort. I have a 16′ Greenland style kayak that I use in the ocean. I also spend some time in the surf on a sit_on_top style kayak (you wouldn’t believe how many stripers hang out in that surf). Of the two, the sit on top is probably more stable for casting and fighting fish, and is certainly a better surf boat, but it is much less efficient to paddle and for me, is very uncomfortable. The one I’ve been using, ocean kayaks ‘frenzy’, has ribs built into it to give multiple places for bracing your feet. I suppose if you are 2" shorter or taller than me it would probably be a comfortable fit, but no matter how much I adjust the seat I can’t get a comfortable fit. Thus, I can’t imagine spending a lot of time trying to cast from it. Most conventional kayaks have internal foot braces that are adjustable. So if you decide to go plastic/sit on top I’d recommend spending at least one hour sitting in the boat to see if it is comfortable for you. Casting when your legs are cramping up can be a drag.                                                         jc

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I recently went through the canoe vs. kayak dilemma and settled with a kayak–a folding kayak. Although I had wanted a platform I could stand in, the seaworthiness and the portability of the folding kayak ruled out.  Obviously it’s nice to have easy access to my gear, food, etc. and even bring along someone else, but a kayak was a much better choice for me as I do most of my flyfishing is saltwater and I often travel by air to fish. The kayak I bought, a Feathercraft K Light Plus folds into a backpack and weighs only 32 pounds; it takes only 15 minutes to assemble; my rod fits under the deck bungees and I can take it out easily. The best thing is that I can take the kayak out into open ocean and not be concerned about being swamped over and I can fight a current quite easily.  I’ve been in big rips and paddled right back-up the beach to my car and fished in four foot swells–no problem. In a canoe in current I’d be swept away. I’m sure I will take it to the Everglades for redfishing and  the Keys and Bahamas for bonefishing just as I took it to Martha’s Vineyard for stripers, blues, and bonito. The kayak is fast, too.  If getting to a destination is your objective, you will expend much less energy and have more time for fishing if you use kayak rather than a canoe. As far as casting from the kayak goes it has yet to be a problem–I just keep the backcast high–no need to stand. As far as storage goes, I keep most of what I need in a waterproof deck bag and waterproof bags in the hull. Folding kayaks are not inexpensive; but for the ability to take it wherever I want to fish, it’s worth it. Good luck, Darren Lew New York, NY

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It is actually pretty hard to tip a family/fishing type canoe. The first thing you should do is go out and tip yours on purpose (or tip a demo model before you buy). Learn how it reacts, and what it takes to tip it. Do this with two people – have one stand and the other make some sudden moves.

I used to stand up while surfing waves in my Blue Hole in my wilder days of youth ;- In my experience, in most cases the canoe stays upright when someone standing in it falls out. The canoe gets "pushed out of the way" rather than capsizing, or the person loses footing and trips trying to regain it in the confines of a canoe (most come with rather small dance floors). In a wide keeled boat, this is less likely to happen, but it still is a risk. Even small jon boats exhibit this "snatch-the-rug" behavior. The pedestals in bass boats are there largely for stability; people aren’t that good at standing in small areas without something to lean on for any length of time. Try marking off a small rectangle and stand in it casting for a while without stepping outside of it. I would plan on sitting to cast most of the time. If (big if when you are as sloppy as I am) you have a nice tight loop it doesn’t need to drop below shoulder level anyway. -Andy

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writes: Canoe probably your best bet. Its only draw back is the extra weight. I have a poke boat which is a semi covered deck, very light, kayak like boat. Its great for getting around, but forget even kneeling in it. In a canoe you could, with care, stand to cast. I. Clair

Alot depends on the canoe. I have a mad river winoski that I have no problem standing in however, the tradoff for that stabality is speed. Other models are faster than my boat some are more durable, less durable, lighter or heavier. Boats vary alot in what they are designed for, you may want to take a look at rec.boats.paddle. Also get a honest idea of what you want from a boat, then go talk to a dealer that knows boats. Canoes are canoes in the same way cars are cars, if you need a pickup you will never be satisfied with a civic. Lastly, the main item that keep me away from a Poke is I need the versitility that a canoe offers. I can carry two adults ,my lab and decoys. Yet, it is not too much boat for one person to fish from solo. Charles

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David…I would recommend a canoe based on your intended use. I currently have two We-No-Nah canoes which are incredible for their intended use, the c-1 for racing and the tandem for backcountry touring. For your use a basic Coleman or Old Town would be fine, why spend the bucks for weight savings or paddling efficiency when you can get what you need for a quarter of the cost? Since you are not going to do any major carries or long distance paddling stick with the basics. By the way if you do go with a canoe I still wouldn’t advise on standing to cast. Good luck with your decision. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am considering purchasing a canoe or kayak for quick trips to the lakes, rivers and bays for fly fishing and recreation around Houston.  Most of the time I will be fishing alone, but would like to take my son or another friend at times.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – David, I e-mailed you the other day, but I think I forgot to send it. Duhh! Anyway, I’ll repeat what I wrote and you can ignore this if I did send. If you are planning to take two kids along you will need a canoe. It is challenging for three people to fly fish from a canoe. You’ll have to take turns casting. If you want to have a real blast fishing solo, try a Keowee. ……. VISUALLY SPEAKING, from an outsider’s point of view.  Visual Pollution is just as real as many other forms.  I imagine, to someone of your generation, fly fishing out of a kayak, to many of us would be like seeing a whale turd in a party punch-bowl.  You not only don’t like looking at it, you wouldn’t use it either.  Yet, float tubes are another matter and I cannot explain to you why.  Go for a canoe, my friend. nuff said. George Gehrke

So far, great responses and advice, and all is appreciated.  At this point, I will approach the purchase by several methods, all tempered with everyone’s input (even George’s – more later).  In Houston, we have REI and Sun & Ski Sports stores, as well as others that will rent kayaks and canoes.  I intend to try several.  Also, I have found several kayak and canoe clubs that give demonstrations and/or lessons.  Knowledge is a powerful tool, especially when so cheaply obtained!  To George – I not only explained to my 9 year old son the visual nuances and social faux pax of a "whale turd in a party punch bowl", but also of some peoples’ intolerance to the lifestyles of others.  Gee, I am in my mid forties with gray hair, yet you seem to believe I am some twenty year old doing an endo and scaring the trout – although whitewater kayaking is on my to-do list. Imagine the visual pollution of the first bamboo rod to a greenheart rod holder, the first fiberglass rod to a bamboo holder, the first graphite rod to a fiberglass rod holder!  Is your mode of transportation a horse, a Model T, a `57 Chevy, a bicycle, a Viper, a bus??!!?  Yet, ornithopters are another matter, and I cannot explain to you why, my friend. "Strive to leave for our children a better world, then they will do the same for theirs."     – David Hinners

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Question:

Has anyone had any experience using horse hair, (mane in particular), in fly tying.  Any input would be appreciated. Tight line!

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writes: Has anyone had any experience using horse hair, (mane in particular), in fly tying.  Any input would be appreciated. Tight line!

Yes, both horse mane and horse tail.  Back in the 70’s took a one day class at a local JC in Oregon.  Older fellow who taught the 3 hour session had a collection of various materials in coffee cans and tin cracker boxes.  Part of his selection was horesehair dyed in various colors.  We tied up some caddis using some dyed green horse hair tied on and then wrapped like floss for one of the flies and then twisted to give a segmented body on another one.  It was actually pretty easy to handle. Need to be a little careful when twisting the horsehair as it goes from "twisted nicely" to "broken by twisting too much" very quickly.  Evidently it used to be easily available.  I haven’t seen any since that one time.                                  Good Luck,                                      Dan Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

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Has anyone had any experience using horse hair, (mane in particular), in fly tying.  Any input would be appreciated.

tying some Mr. Ed Beadheads ? TimW

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Has anyone had any experience using horse hair, (mane in particular), in fly tying.  Any input would be appreciated.

Horsehair bodies (over painted hook shanks) were the basis of J.W. Dunne’s theory of imitation (approx. 1920) and remained in use in Britain for some time (cf. Robert Hartman, About Fishing, 1935) — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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Question:

Does anyone out there know if there are any WEB pages devoted to flyfishing only?  If so please let me know what the URL for them are.

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Does anyone out there know if there are any WEB pages devoted to flyfishing only?  If so please let me know what the URL for them are.

http://flyfish.com is one and it has extensive links to other FF only websites.

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Does anyone out there know if there are any WEB pages devoted to flyfishing only?  If so please let me know what the URL for them are.

My page!  Raske’s Fly Fishing In Maine http://www.mint.net/~raske/index.html regards, R.A. Skehan

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Response:

: oes anyone out there know if there are any WEB pages devoted to :flyfishing only?  If so please let me know what the URL for them are. : : There are several hundred at least.  Simply use any one of the various search engines available at no charge to you, me or anyone else (Yahoo, Web Crawler, Excite, c-nets search.com, etc.).  Search on fly fishing and set back, they will roll by from all over the world.  Hundreds Jerry Shepherd

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: oes anyone out there know if there are any WEB pages devoted to :flyfishing only?  If so please let me know what the URL for them are.

   There are a bunch. Try:  http://www.flyline.com   for starters. It’s the best on the net but then again I wrote it so there might be just a bit of bias in the opinion    Ralph —

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : oes anyone out there know if there are any WEB pages devoted to :flyfishing only?  If so please let me know what the URL for them are.    There are a bunch. Try:  http://www.flyline.com   for starters. It’s the best on the net but then again I wrote it so there might be just a bit of bias in the opinion    Ralph —

There also is  http://www.flyshop.no/

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There are lots and lots, you can do a search on any of the search engines or check out my page.  It’s in my sig file. : oes anyone out there know if there are any WEB pages devoted to :flyfishing only?  If so please let me know what the URL for them are.

If you can’t beat ‘em, groin ‘em

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Hi if you are looking for fly fishing products my home page is http//www.junction.net/herbys/

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Question:

Anyone use cat fur for dubbing.Seems like it should work fine. I have a grey cat and a black and white cat that I brush. I tied a few flies with good results but haven’t fished them yet. Any experience with this.

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: Anyone use cat fur for dubbing.Seems like it should work fine. I have a : grey cat and a black and white cat that I brush. I tied a few flies with : good results but haven’t fished them yet. Any experience with this.  Ummmm…..Yes. But just don’t tell those PETA people about it. It would only make them madder at fishermen!  ;)   My experience with cat fur as dubbing has been that cat fur is rather course to work with. Try mixing in some rabbit of the same color to make the dubbing hold together better. A rabbit and alley cat blend is what Polly Rosborough like to use to make his Stone fly nymph. How do you get dubbing from a cat?  Very carefully….. Here, kitty, kitty, kitty… Jon Porter

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Anyone use cat fur for dubbing.Seems like it should work fine. I have a grey cat and a black and white cat that I brush. I tied a few flies with good results but haven’t fished them yet. Any experience with this.

Mike…. My girlfriend has a long hair white cat.  I have used the fur for dubbing and have found that it works fine.  Because the fur is so long, I have found the best use is on streamers and nymphs where you want an action like Marabou.  I tried it on a dry but it didn’t work too well. I had to keep applying floatant as it absorbed A LOT of water. Good luck, Steve Hering

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Your getting to involvoled,lighten up! A year ago I was scourering the roads for roadkill before I realized my family was worried and on the verge of suggesting psychiatric help. I enjoy fishing to much to give them the satisfaction of having a qauck tell me I need to quit. Keep your actions private and you shouldn’t have any trouble.

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Now there’s a twist, the fish eating the cat!

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I HAVE OR I SHOULD REALLY SAY MY WIFE HAS A CAT, ITS A CALICO. AND I CUT I WAD OF FUR OFF HER AND USE IT AS DUBBING. IT WORKS GREAT ON NYMPHS , WITH AMAZING RESULTS. IT IS VERY SPIKEY AND DUBS  REAL FINE. THE CALICO DOESN’T SEEM TO MIND WHEN I CUT SOME HAIR OFF HER ( IT ALWAYS GROWS BACK ) MY WIFE BITCHES ABOUT IT THOUGH.GOOD LUCK WITH THIS RENEWABLE DUBBING.

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Your getting to involvoled,lighten up! A year ago I was scourering the roads for roadkill before I realized my family was worried and on the verge of suggesting psychiatric help. I enjoy fishing to much to give them the satisfaction of having a qauck tell me I need to quit. Keep your actions private and you shouldn’t have any trouble.

What’s the best way to keep the hair from slipping once you get the skin off?    J. Rice

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I have a grey, long haired cat that has just about any shade of grey you could want. Doesn’t float too well, though…… Best Regards,                         Sourcing  Laser Diodes, Optics, Motors, Electronics, Timothy M. Beahan,              Photodiodes and such for Laser products used in the Purchasing Agent,                 Construction industry, such as aligning water pipe, Laser Alignment, Inc.             land leveling and contouring, and interior construction. 6330 28th St. SE                      Serving the world wide marketplace. Grand Rapids, MI 49546 Ph (616)942-4610 Fax (616)940-8609

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Anyone use cat fur for dubbing.Seems like it should work fine. I have a grey cat and a black and white cat that I brush. I tied a few flies with good results but haven’t fished them yet. Any experience with this.

Yes, I have a little bit of cat fur that was given to me to tie a pattern called "The Kittie Caddis".  Great shade of gray with some brown mixed in and it works great.  Story goes that my friend’s room mate used to brush his mother’s gray & brown cat to get some of the fur for fly tying without raising his mothers ire.  His mother was heartsick when the cat died and her son offered to bury the cat for her.  He shaved the fur off before he buried the cat.  Cat didn’t care, he was dead and mom never knew.  Fish like it just fine.                                               Dan Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

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