Question:

<snip Nice read, Sam. — TL, Tim

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Howdy Sam     As a sometime resident of Pa. i have a camper in Coburn close to Penns Creek wife is from Scranton where would this lovely little stream be i would like to check it out. Email me if you want.                    Handyman Mike           Standing in a river waving a stick

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I finished up my summer vacation at my boyhood home in eastern Pennsylvania late in the evening of July 3. I planned to rise before dawn on Independence Day and fish my favorite little creek. [HISTORIC ASIDE] I fished this creek as a boy some twenty five years earlier. Then, it was at best, marginal water.  Smelly, appearing nearly devoid of anything alive, and in places, algae nearly choked the stream due to phosphate pollution from industry far upstream. But it had trout, and I could walk there. Twenty five years ago that’s all I needed. In the intervening years, I went off to college, moved several times, got married, and had several jobs. I visited the creek whenever I got back home. Never to fish, just to try to recapture some of those boyhood memories I guess.  Over the past 6 or 7 years, I noticed that the smell had gone and so did the algae. Not surprising, since the upstream industry, and all the related jobs, disappeared. That is why most of my contemporaries and I left the area in the first place. Over the past 3 years, I was able to follow stocking reports, Pennsylvania state water reports and even fishing reports via the internet.  The stream was definitely on the mend. In fact, recently it was supposed to be removed from the list stocked streams due to a "Class B or better designation, and sizable wild trout population" according to the Pennsylvania Fish and Boat Commission (PAFBC). The decision to not stock was later reversed because of a public outcry. Knowing some of the history of this stream, and knowing some of the troubles of the PAFBC, I was skeptical to say the least. [END OF HISTORICAL ASIDE] Before dawn came and went (as it sometimes does) and I was still in bed. However, I was on the creek by 6:00am. It was already hot, opressively hot. I was to pay dearly for that extra hour of sleep. Should have gotten up at 4:30 like the alarm clock said. It was the tail end of week long 90+ degree streak. The water had a good flow but promised little relief from the heat. As I entered the water, I was pleasantly surprised by the cool press of my breathables against my bare legs.  Stream thermometer read 66 degrees, not too shabby! I waded upstream about 100 yards or so, and stood in an ankle deep riffle. I gazed upstream at a 50 yard stretch of knee deep flat water, with another riffle at the head. There were about a dozen fish rising in front of me.  I could not tell what they were feeding on, but I did notice that most of the bugs I saw were gray. So I tied on a #16 gray EHC. There were at least two fish between the biggest riseform and myself, and it was under a low hanging branch.  Not going to get that one. I decided to cast to the closest one, which I spooked after a few casts.  I crept forward to cast to the next one that was still feeding.  On the second cast, there was a kamakazee rise to my fly.  As I set the hook, I thought "little fish, big ones don’t crash that hard…probably not a trout anyway". I had it, or wait, did it have me? It was not quite the little fish I imagined. After a savage but brief fight, I brought a beautifully colored, fully finned, and yes, wild 15 inch brown trout to hand. After a quick and admiring look, I released it, and it darted upstream.  I was so happy I laughed out loud. I waited for about 15 minutes for the fish to start rising again, but they never did.  It was 7:45am, and the heat was intensifiying.  I briefly though of moving on upstream, but then thought I should just go home. Landing more fish on that day would make me no happier.

Response:

Question:

Last night I ate some typical, hard tasteless tomatoes I had gotten from a roundside stand, in hopes that they would be good. I had read, some time ago, about a strain of tomatoes that were developed that would be ripe, juicy and tasty while still being firm enough to ship. Anyone heard anything about what happened with this. Willi

        what an infatile post!  don’t you people give a shit about fishing?  what knot do you use when you tie a fly to the end of your little bitty line that is tied to your great big line that goes on your reel that is screwed on to your pole?         and, most importantly, why do you hate america?         tomatoes are red.  red is the color of communism.  you are a communist because you like tomatoes. anthony wayne harrison the third. Aren’t tomatoes really orange and not red? Just like blueberries are really purple. There is no blue food. Perhaps the communists are keeping all the blue food from us.

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There is no blue food.

        yeah, well that’s what *you* think—i don’t guess you’ve ever eaten a smurf, then!  Perhaps the communists are keeping all the blue food from us.

        i wouldn’t doubt it..  smurfs are damn good, served n’awleens style.  richard has the recipe. wayno

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There is no blue food.    yeah, well that’s what *you* think—i don’t guess you’ve ever eaten a smurf, then! Perhaps the communists are keeping all the blue food from us.    i wouldn’t doubt it..  smurfs are damn good, served n’awleens style.  richard has the recipe.

Sure do…first, you get some carpet tacks and caulk…. HTH, really I do… R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -wayno

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yeah, well that’s what *you* think—i don’t guess you’ve ever eaten a smurf, then! wayno

Really kinky. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply.

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yeah, well that’s what *you* think—i don’t guess you’ve ever eaten a smurf, then! wayno Really kinky.

You don’t know the half of it, Frank. Papa Smurf likes to watch. Tim

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yeah, well that’s what *you* think—i don’t guess you’ve ever eaten a smurf, then! wayno Really kinky.

You don’t know the half of it, Frank. Papa Smurf likes to watch. Tim Did he get any color glossy photos with circles and arrows?

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if it’s the genetically-engineered t’maters, yeah…i invested in that venture and the stock promptly went belly-up…died on the vine, so to speak.  gov’t regs and consumer skepticism slowed it down… jeff (natural born stock killer)

Damned semantics again!  We been eatin genetically engineered maties and taties for a long long time……been feedin ‘em to our genetically engineered wolves too, for that matter. Wolfgang ubermensch sans portfolio

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There is no blue food. yeah, well that’s what *you* think—i don’t guess you’ve ever eaten a smurf, then!

Uhh…   eeewww.    Though this probably falls under the category of "more than you wanted to know", for the edification of the group, I’ll impart this tidbit of disgusting knowledge.   Most rv’s have some sort of solid waste disposal system on board, be it a built in toilet or porta potti.   These are typically deoderized and sanitized by the use of a concentrated blue liquid in the holding tank.   The contents of said tanks then, due to the strong color influence of this chemical, are colloquially referred to as "smurf juice". HTH, Joe F.

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what an infatile post!  don’t you people give a shit about fishing?  what knot do you use when you tie a fly to the end of your little bitty line that is tied to your great big line that goes on your reel that is screwed on to your pole? and, most importantly, why do you hate america? tomatoes are red.  red is the color of communism.  you are a communist because you like tomatoes. anthony wayne harrison the third.

I’ll do my best to get you a quart of that corn likker, as soon a possible good buddy! Op

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Last night I ate some typical, hard tasteless tomatoes I had gotten from a roundside stand, in hopes that they would be good. I had read, some time ago, about a strain of tomatoes that were developed that would be ripe, juicy and tasty while still being firm enough to ship. Anyone heard anything about what happened with this. You’re probably thinking of the genetically engineered FLAVR SAVR tomatoes: http://vm.cfsan.fda.gov/~lrd/biotech.html That’s the one.

Umm, don’t these fall under the heading of ‘bioengineered foods’ that people want to pass laws to protect themselves from, are boycotting McDonalds in far eastern countries over, and Mugabe just tossed 50,000 tons of relief food out of Zimbabwe because it wasn’t specified to not contain? riverman

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if it’s the genetically-engineered t’maters, yeah…i invested in that venture and the stock promptly went belly-up…died on the vine, so to speak.  gov’t regs and consumer skepticism slowed it down…

That explains why I haven’t seem them. Willi

Response:

Last night I ate some typical, hard tasteless tomatoes I had gotten from a roundside stand, in hopes that they would be good. I had read, some time ago, about a strain of tomatoes that were developed that would be ripe, juicy and tasty while still being firm enough to ship. Anyone heard anything about what happened with this. You’re probably thinking of the genetically engineered FLAVR SAVR tomatoes: http://vm.cfsan.fda.gov/~lrd/biotech.html

That’s the one. Willi

Response:

Last night I ate some typical, hard tasteless tomatoes I had gotten from a roundside stand, in hopes that they would be good. I had read, some time ago, about a strain of tomatoes that were developed that would be ripe, juicy and tasty while still being firm enough to ship. Anyone heard anything about what happened with this. Willi

        what an infatile post!  don’t you people give a shit about fishing?  what knot do you use when you tie a fly to the end of your little bitty line that is tied to your great big line that goes on your reel that is screwed on to your pole?         and, most importantly, why do you hate america?         tomatoes are red.  red is the color of communism.  you are a communist because you like tomatoes. anthony wayne harrison the third.

Response:

if it’s the genetically-engineered t’maters, yeah…i invested in that venture and the stock promptly went belly-up…died on the vine, so to speak.  gov’t regs and consumer skepticism slowed it down… jeff (natural born stock killer) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Last night I ate some typical, hard tasteless tomatoes I had gotten from a roundside stand, in hopes that they would be good. I had read, some time ago, about a strain of tomatoes that were developed that would be ripe, juicy and tasty while still being firm enough to ship. Anyone heard anything about what happened with this. Willi

Response:

Last night I ate some typical, hard tasteless tomatoes I had gotten from a roundside stand, in hopes that they would be good. I had read, some time ago, about a strain of tomatoes that were developed that would be ripe, juicy and tasty while still being firm enough to ship. Anyone heard anything about what happened with this. Willi

Perhaps these taste sharper? http://www.artsnflies.com/pages/clousers23.shtml TL MC

Response:

Last night I ate some typical, hard tasteless tomatoes I had gotten from a roundside stand, in hopes that they would be good. I had read, some time ago, about a strain of tomatoes that were developed that would be ripe, juicy and tasty while still being firm enough to ship. Anyone heard anything about what happened with this.

You’re probably thinking of the genetically engineered FLAVR SAVR tomatoes: http://vm.cfsan.fda.gov/~lrd/biotech.html — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Last night I ate some typical, hard tasteless tomatoes I had gotten from a roundside stand, in hopes that they would be good. I had read, some time ago, about a strain of tomatoes that were developed that would be ripe, juicy and tasty while still being firm enough to ship. Anyone heard anything about what happened with this. Willi

Response:

Last night I ate some typical, hard tasteless tomatoes I had gotten from a roundside stand, in hopes that they would be good. I had read, some time ago, about a strain of tomatoes that were developed that would be ripe, juicy and tasty while still being firm enough to ship. Anyone heard anything about what happened with this. Willi

Not too sure if it’s the same thing, but I’ve been getting "vine ripened" tomatoes still on the vine. They say that they are "organically grown", but they do taste good, and arrive at the store in a less than ripe condition.

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Question:

If you bring that I’ll make sure to get a bottle of Zubrowka – Polish vodka flavored with buffalo grass.  The current stuff is actually fake, because the buffalo grass has some kind of blood thinner and the FDA banned it in 1978, but it’s still good.  My uncles used to have bottles of the real stuff and brought it out on holidays.  They’re all over 80 and still healthy as horses, so maybe it’s really good stuff<g.

I brought home a bottle of the real Zubrowka when we returned from a recent trip to Poland.  Should have brought two or three, ’cause the stuff just doesn’t last around my house.  Hands down the finest tasting vodka I’ve had. Bill

Response:

Zubrowka is great stuff. I spent a few months studying in Krakow back before the velvet revolution

        (nifty anecdote snipped)         god, i love the smell of well-written english in the morning…         thanks, sid, from your friend in the old north state wayno

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Screw this wussy stuff and bring on the Slivovitz!!  I’ll try to get some for Penns 2002! Scott If you bring that I’ll make sure to get a bottle of Zubrowka – Polish vodka flavored with buffalo grass.  The current stuff is actually fake, because the buffalo grass has some kind of blood thinner and the FDA banned it in 1978, but it’s still good.  My uncles used to have bottles of the real stuff and brought it out on holidays.  They’re all over 80 and still healthy as horses, so maybe it’s really good stuff<g.

I have a bottle brought to me from Poland by a Polish friend I work with. VERY GOOD STUFF. M. Wm.

Response:

If you bring that I’ll make sure to get a bottle of Zubrowka – Polish vodka flavored with buffalo grass.  

Zubrowka is great stuff. I spent a few months studying in Krakow back before the velvet revolution and can confidently say that one of the few joys of soviet style socialism is plenty of cheap booze. I brought 200 USD to last the entire four months I was there and lived like a king. Well, a king who wipes his ass with newspaper, anyway. TP was tough to come by at the time. And, well, you start to see why it’s a good thing that booze was cheap in soviet socialist economies . My roommate at the time had just arrived from West Berlin where he’d been living in luxury accommodations while studying there. He used to wake up every morning, look out the window and remark with utter defeat, "Well, another shitty day in Poland." The poor guy was so stopped up from the adjustment to Poland’s somewhat challenging diet that after the first five days, he still hadn’t taken a crap. Sympathetic lot that we were, the rest of us in the program started a pool on when he’d eventually find relief, eschewing normal conversation with the poor bastard and instead starting every interaction with completely unveiled references to his predicament. "So, Mike…taken a crap yet?" was a popular starter and the hangdog look that would inevitably accompany the ensuing despondent shake of his head was enough to make you almost feel sorry for the guy. Unless, of course, it was your day in the pool. Poland’s a tough place…especially when there’s money at stake . Anyway, that’s a bit of a digression, but thanks for the memories. Maybe I’ll hit the ole liquor store tomorrow and see if I can’t scare up a bottle of the old Zubrowka. Or just take a crap and think about Mike. Too close to call, really. dziekuje bardzo, – sid

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Screw this wussy stuff and bring on the Slivovitz!!  I’ll try to get some for Penns 2002! Scott If you bring that I’ll make sure to get a bottle of Zubrowka – Polish vodka flavored with buffalo grass.  The current stuff is actually fake, because the buffalo grass has some kind of blood thinner and the FDA banned it in 1978, but it’s still good.  My uncles used to have bottles of the real stuff and brought it out on holidays.  They’re all over 80 and still healthy as horses, so maybe it’s really good stuff<g.

Sounds like a deal.  There’s a Slovenian on my floor–I’ll start working on him for a bottle. This Clave might take on an Eastern European flavor.  Maybe a nice flanken would serve as well. Scott

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Screw this wussy stuff and bring on the Slivovitz!!  I’ll try to get some for Penns 2002! Scott

Plum Vodka from one of the slavic countries Czechoslovakia? Poland? national drink. There is a plum brandy that is good too. — Don Thompson Another Thompson Scion

Response:

Screw this wussy stuff and bring on the Slivovitz!!  I’ll try to get some for Penns 2002! Scott

If you bring that I’ll make sure to get a bottle of Zubrowka – Polish vodka flavored with buffalo grass.  The current stuff is actually fake, because the buffalo grass has some kind of blood thinner and the FDA banned it in 1978, but it’s still good.  My uncles used to have bottles of the real stuff and brought it out on holidays.  They’re all over 80 and still healthy as horses, so maybe it’s really good stuff<g.

Response:

<good TR snipped some sort of Scandinavian drink made from potatoes called (it sounded like at least) Aqua Feet

FYI: http://www.britannica.com/seo/a/aquavit/

Response:

  some sort of Scandinavian drink made from potatoes called (it sounded like at least) Aqua Feet FYI: http://www.britannica.com/seo/a/aquavit/

Thanks for the link Stan.  I still think my description and the name of Aquafeet should be used despite what the encyclopedia has to say about it. <g Lou gave some interesting history about this drink.  Apparently crossing the equator makes it taste better so the good stuff is stamped with when and on what boat it crossed the equator.  If nothing else, it made the drink more interesting because it had a history. — Warren Findley Remove (nospamZZ) to respond via email http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt/

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – some sort of Scandinavian drink made from potatoes called (it sounded like at least) Aqua Feet FYI: http://www.britannica.com/seo/a/aquavit/ Thanks for the link Stan.  I still think my description and the name of Aquafeet should be used despite what the encyclopedia has to say about it. <g Lou gave some interesting history about this drink.  Apparently crossing the equator makes it taste better so the good stuff is stamped with when and on what boat it crossed the equator.  If nothing else, it made the drink more interesting because it had a history. — Warren Findley Remove (nospamZZ) to respond via email http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt/

Screw this wussy stuff and bring on the Slivovitz!!  I’ll try to get some for Penns 2002! Scott

Response:

Lou Teletski and his friends (Jim, Tom and Eric) have been out in Yellowstone for a week and are leaving today.  I finally got my life caught back up from the Conclave and was able to swing over there yesterday to fish with Lou and his friends.  We met at his hotel room in Gardiner early yesterday morning and decided to go fish some water in the Park that they have never done well on.  This stretch of river can be difficult to fish for a variety of reasons, especially when the fish are uncooperative.  I wasn’t sure what to expect for today.  Hayden Valley was socked in with smoke from a couple of fires in the area.  Depending on which way the wind blew, the smoke would either come in or blow it out and for most of the day we were fortunate to be without. We arrived on the water a little after 9 and were all on the water around 9:40 or so.  There were some Gray Drake spinners around, but very few fish were rising.  Before getting on the water I had given everybody a short description of what had worked for us during the Clave as well as how the Troutmaster had tackled this stretch of water.  We spread out and began fishing.  I started fishing a large stonefly nymph with a prince dropper and fished the deep slots.  I came into the first fish and radioed the group of what the fish had taken.  I caught another fish shortly thereafter and again radioed the group that the fish had again taken the prince nymph. Eric was next into fish on some sort of peacock bodied fly that closely resembled a prince.  It was nice watching Eric catch fish because he enjoyed each one as if it was his first fish.  A few fish started rising in Troutmaster Willi’s hole and I had Lou come over and fish it with me.  I switched over to an Adams and caught another fish.  Jim and Eric caught a couple of fish upstream of us.  Lou didn’t have much luck in Willi’s hole and I eventually worked my way back up to the vehicle to get a quick snack and left Lou down there to catch some fish. After watching the buffalo walked down the road and feeding some birds, Lou and I went and fished upstream of where we started.  A meadow starts in this section and there is a big cove with slow moving water.  The cove is sort of shallow and has a large flat that runs along a very deep section.  We worked our way upstream fishing this deep section and neither of us had any luck. I walked quite a ways upstream trying to find some better water, but it was all the same for as far as I could see. The water in this area would be very good to fish from a float tube because it is more like fishing a lake although it is against the rules to fish it from a float tube.  There is hardly any current and even the very structure is very lake-like.  I walked back down to Lou and we decided to work our back and fish the area we had fished earlier in the morning.  While we were going fishless, the radio crackled with news that the other three guys were getting into fish downstream. As we walked along the bank, we spotted three fish hanging out in the cove close to the bank.  Lou eventually enticed one to the surface with a Gray Wulff.  The fish had taken up positions and began feeding in an area where the cove ends and the river narrows causing the water to move a little faster.  Lou went over and began fishing while I sat on the bank and watched Lou in action.  He caught another fish in this area and the fish started rising more profusely than before.  I started fishing downstream to the fish that were hanging out on the far side of the current and was unable to get a good drift so I changed sides.  Lou in the meantime is catching fish mind you.  I worked my way downstream to an area that allowed me to cross the river and began to hear thunder in the distance.  The wind was coming in fits and during the calm periods the fish would start rising. After crossing the river I saw a bunch of fish on the flats and started fishing for these.  The fish were not taking dries however and I could see them taking nymphs of some sort.  They just swam a couple feet to either side very nonchalantly and opened their mouths to these drifting morsels of food.  I added a small pheasant tail dropper and started fishing the Adams and the dropper.  I didn’t have much luck with the Adams so switched over to a Gray Wulff with the PT dropper.  The wind just happened to pick up and made casting next to impossible where I was at and the thunder started booming very close to our location.  Jim, Tom and Eric packed up and headed upstream while Lou crossed the river. As Lou and I were discussing leaving, a large cutthroat came up and hammered my Gray Wulff.  The fish dove into a weed bed and I lost the fish.  I put a couple more casts out and had another nice sized fish take the PT dropper. This fish ran for the rocks and I could feel the leader ticking up against the rocks before the tippet finally gave out.  We decided to get off the water because of the weather and headed up to the vehicles.  By the time we had put away our gear, the storm had passed and a large group of Gray Drakes were hovering over the vehicle.  We decided to head back to Gardiner for dinner and call it a day.  They still had some packing to do after all. The results were we caught 17 fish with none under 16" between the five of us.  I don’t think anyone caught any 16" fish either.  Most fish seemed to hover around the 17" to 18" range with a few larger that pushed into the  20+" range.  Unfortunately, Tom never did get a fish.  This river has a way of keeping at least one person in the group very humble and my last trip to this river had left me skunked. After a great meal and good conversation we headed back to their room for some coffee and a special drink that Lou had brought.  I say special not because it was so tasty, but because it was from Sweden I think.  It is supposedly some sort of Scandinavian drink made from potatoes called (it sounded like at least) Aqua Feet and that is how it should be said and written IMO because it tasted like someone had mashed up rotten oranges with dirty feet.  We talked for quite some time before I decided it was getting late and I still had a decent drive ahead of me so I should depart.  I had a wonderful time with these guys and was thankful that I had the opportunity to meet Lou.  Another good example as to the quality of the people you meet by way of ROFF.  I couldn’t have asked for a better day or better company other than getting Tom into some fish. — Warren Findley Remove (nospamZZ) to respond via email http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt/

Response:

Question:

I may be flying into Asheville, North Carolina and driving to Greeneville, Tennessee, so I would appreciate any suggestions for cold water flyfishing Close to these places. Thanks, Jim Barna

Response:

I may be flying into Asheville, North Carolina and driving to Greeneville, Tennessee, so I would appreciate any suggestions for cold water flyfishing Close to these places. Thanks, Jim Barna

Jim, There is said to be 4000 miles (and I’m doing my darndest to fish every mile) of trout waters in NC…. it’s kinda like take your pick. Here’s a good informational link run by a fishin’ bud. http://www.wnctrout.com Tight lines, Walt — Walter G. Winter Ezflyfish.com:  http://www.ezflyfish.com Blue Ridge Book Gallery: http://www.crosswinds.net/~brbg/books/brbg-2.html

Response:

Thanks Walt! Jim Barna

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I may be flying into Asheville, North Carolina and driving to Greeneville, Tennessee, so I would appreciate any suggestions for cold water flyfishing Close to these places. Thanks, Jim Barna Jim, There is said to be 4000 miles (and I’m doing my darndest to fish every mile) of trout waters in NC…. it’s kinda like take your pick. Here’s a good informational link run by a fishin’ bud. http://www.wnctrout.com Tight lines, Walt — Walter G. Winter Ezflyfish.com:  http://www.ezflyfish.com Blue Ridge Book Gallery: http://www.crosswinds.net/~brbg/books/brbg-2.html

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sharks are a totally insignificant part of boating and yet you pasting these exclusively in boating newsgroups.  Perhaps the folks in some of the natural history or hydrosciences would be more interested. I have to disagree. As both a sailor and scuba diver (planning an extended cruise in the Pacific) shark awareness is key. If I spent my life in fear of everything that was a 10 million to 1 shot I would just crawl under my bed and hide. Quite true. Agree 100% – but that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t learn more about those risks. And frankly, for cruisers in the Pacific the odds of coming into direct contact with sharks seems much higher than 10,000,000:1. Knowing how to deal with them when you encounter them can help prevent the incident from becoming life threatening. Ignoring the issue does not help. J. OK, I’ll say it again.  The postings do little if anything to describe any form of action, avoidance or deterrence that can be applied.  This particular thread was started with an account of Miss Australia of 1950 losing an arm to a shark.  They are simply sensationalism with little content other than "isn’t it terrible"

Ahem! Was she Miss Aussie before or after the incident?

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Food for thought: There are millions of sharks eaten by humans for every human eaten by a shark!

Response:

This is why "shark bites man" is better news material than "man bites shark". But I also fail to understand why the sensational takes precedence ofer the sensible. — Anders Svensson – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Food for thought: There are millions of sharks eaten by humans for every human eaten by a shark!

Response:

This guy is crossing posting to several newsgroups and receiving complaints in each.  He is trying to sell some sort of shark repellent that doesn’t always work, but it provides psychological support in an attack because it might work. I sell a magic bracelet that does exactly the same thing at a fraction of the cost. Bob

It is amazing to see how interested you are in all of my postings(as it would been easy for you to skip over them as soon as you saw my email address associated with them, but you didn’t). Guess what? You are wrong again as I have nothing to do with the sales/marketing of either technology at the moment. How  do you know what the SharkPOD can do(other then from accessing the Web site below)? You surely have never tested the SharkPOD before, have you? How do you know what the Australian technology can do as you have never tested that technology before either(I had heard that it is working very well with baited sharks off Australia as I am waiting to get hold of a prototype to use myself)? You sure have a lot to say when you have probably never even seen a shark underwater before(except for on your television). What’s the matter? Afraid that an effective shark repellent will take away the market share that your "magical bracelet" currently exploits? Regards, Jim Morris http://starbulletin.com/97/12/22/features/index.html

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sharks are a totally insignificant part of boating and yet you pasting these exclusively in boating newsgroups.  Perhaps the folks in some of the natural history or hydrosciences would be more interested. I have to disagree. As both a sailor and scuba diver (planning an extended cruise in the Pacific) shark awareness is key. If I spent my life in fear of everything that was a 10 million to 1 shot I would just crawl under my bed and hide. Quite true. Agree 100% – but that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t learn more about those risks. And frankly, for cruisers in the Pacific the odds of coming into direct contact with sharks seems much higher than 10,000,000:1. Knowing how to deal with them when you encounter them can help prevent the incident from becoming life threatening. Ignoring the issue does not help. J. OK, I’ll say it again.  The postings do little if anything to describe any form of action, avoidance or deterrence that can be applied.  This particular thread was started with an account of Miss Australia of 1950 losing an arm to a shark.  They are simply sensationalism with little content other than "isn’t it terrible" Ahem! Was she Miss Aussie before or after the incident?

For anyone who believes that the threat from sharks should not be considered as a possibility when in a survival situation(depending on the venue), I refer you to the book, ADRIFT, which was written by Steve Callahan(who is now a writer/editor with CRUISING WORLD magazine). Mr. Callahan was adrift in a life raft(after his sailboat hit what he thought was a whale)for seventy plus days and was hounded by sharks! Mr. Callahan’s ordeal took place in the Atlantic/Caribbean and is eloquently described in his book, ADRIFT. For another example in the Pacific, what about the USS Indianapolis disaster where survivors of the initial sinking(the Indianapolis was torpedoed by a Japanese submarine)were ravaged by sharks as they floated in the ocean hopefully awaiting rescue? Please try to observe Memorial Day in some way. Best wishes, Jim Morris http://starbulletin.com/97/12/22/features/index.html

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Food for thought: There are millions of sharks eaten by humans for every human eaten by a shark!

And good food they are….

Response:

Food for thought: There are millions of sharks eaten by humans for every human eaten by a shark! And good food they are….

Yes, but this is very small consolation to those humans. john

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I may not worry at all at 10 million to 1, but I have a personal rule of never trying anything that has less than a one in 10 thousand chance of resulting in death or permanent disability.

…is life sorta a bore?

Response:

Sharks are a totally insignificant part of boating and yet you pasting these exclusively in boating newsgroups.  Perhaps the folks in some of the natural history or hydrosciences would be more interested.

I have to disagree. As both a sailor and scuba diver (planning an extended cruise in the Pacific) shark awareness is key. If I spent my life in fear of everything that was a 10 million to 1 shot I would just crawl under my bed and hide.

Quite true. Agree 100% – but that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t learn more about those risks. And frankly, for cruisers in the Pacific the odds of coming into direct contact with sharks seems much higher than 10,000,000:1. Knowing how to deal with them when you encounter them can help prevent the incident from becoming life threatening. Ignoring the issue does not help. J.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sharks are a totally insignificant part of boating and yet you pasting these exclusively in boating newsgroups.  Perhaps the folks in some of the natural history or hydrosciences would be more interested. I have to disagree. As both a sailor and scuba diver (planning an extended cruise in the Pacific) shark awareness is key. If I spent my life in fear of everything that was a 10 million to 1 shot I would just crawl under my bed and hide. Quite true. Agree 100% – but that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t learn more about those risks. And frankly, for cruisers in the Pacific the odds of coming into direct contact with sharks seems much higher than 10,000,000:1. Knowing how to deal with them when you encounter them can help prevent the incident from becoming life threatening. Ignoring the issue does not help. J.

OK, I’ll say it again.  The postings do little if anything to describe any form of action, avoidance or deterrence that can be applied.  This particular thread was started with an account of Miss Australia of 1950 losing an arm to a shark.  They are simply sensationalism with little content other than "isn’t it terrible"

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sharks are a totally insignificant part of boating and yet you pasting these exclusively in boating newsgroups.  Perhaps the folks in some of the natural history or hydrosciences would be more interested. I have to disagree. As both a sailor and scuba diver (planning an extended cruise in the Pacific) shark awareness is key. If I spent my life in fear of everything that was a 10 million to 1 shot I would just crawl under my bed and hide. Quite true. Agree 100% – but that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t learn more about those risks. And frankly, for cruisers in the Pacific the odds of coming into direct contact with sharks seems much higher than 10,000,000:1. Knowing how to deal with them when you encounter them can help prevent the incident from becoming life threatening. Ignoring the issue does not help. J. OK, I’ll say it again.  The postings do little if anything to describe any form of action, avoidance or deterrence that can be applied.  This particular thread was started with an account of Miss Australia of 1950 losing an arm to a shark.  They are simply sensationalism with little content other than "isn’t it terrible" Ahem! Was she Miss Aussie before or after the incident? For anyone who believes that the threat from sharks should not be considered as a possibility when in a survival situation(depending on the venue), I refer you to the book, ADRIFT, which was written by Steve Callahan(who is now a writer/editor with CRUISING WORLD magazine). Mr. Callahan was adrift in a life raft(after his sailboat hit what he thought was a whale)for seventy plus days and was hounded by sharks! Mr. Callahan’s ordeal took place in the Atlantic/Caribbean and is eloquently described in his book, ADRIFT. For another example in the Pacific, what about the USS Indianapolis disaster where survivors of the initial sinking(the Indianapolis was torpedoed by a Japanese submarine)were ravaged by sharks as they floated in the ocean hopefully awaiting rescue?

I know that sharks exist, I know that shars bite. I read ADRIFT.  I know that sharks can be a threat. When are you going to add something that goes beyond the above.

Response:

If I spent my life in fear of everything that was a 10 million to 1 shot I would just crawl under my bed and hide.

Interesting…  I enjoyed the post anyways.  What are the actual chances of being attacked by a shark in:         1) known infested areas         2) the open ocean         3) worldwide I may not worry at all at 10 million to 1, but I have a personal rule of never trying anything that has less than a one in 10 thousand chance of resulting in death or permanent disability.

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<snip Is there some other newsgroup in which this would be more appropriate? Sharks are a totally insignificant part of boating and yet you pasting these exclusively in boating newsgroups.  Perhaps the folks in some of the natural history or hydrosciences would be more interested. If I spent my life in fear of everything that was a 10 million to 1 shot I would just crawl under my bed and hide. Since you are posting via dejanews from an earthlink account, I suspect this is some sort of bizarre troll.

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I am based in Los Angeles but had heard about that awful attack on the couple hanging on the anchor line where the gentleman pushed his newly-wed wife out of the way, and he was taken himself off of Australia. Hi Jim As much as I would love to help you with information I would be unable to put you in touch with the lady in question.  The reasons being in the past twelve months she has re-married and also had her first child a month ago. I really think she now has her tramatic experience behind her and is trying to get on with things.

That was a very harrowing experience for her, and I can understand how she would want for it to be behind her. However, your friend can take comfort in knowing that her husband really loved her in doing what he did for her. I did a shark dive last year at Nassau, Bahamas with a lady by the name of Heather Boswell. Before Heather attempted to do a shark dive with me for the NBC WEEKEND TODAY show(which was televised throughout the USA on July 13th, 1997), Heather had been attacked by a five meter plus white shark while she was swimming on the ocean surface over a hundred miles offshore of Chile. Heather was swimming with some friends in calm seas off of a NOAA research vessel that they were crewing on. A friend was videotaping them all in the water(and captured the attack on video in the process)when a huge dorsal fin appeared(Heather later indicated that it looked to be at least a meter tall above the water as it approached her). The shark started attacking a gentleman who was sitting upon some type of surfboard. He managed to drive it away by apparently poking the shark in the eye. The shark then turned its attention to Heather who was nearby in the water. Rescuers were trying to reach Heather in an inflatable boat which was dispatched from the larger NOAA vessel. They actually had a hold of her before the shark started to attack Heather. However, because of the sunscreen lotion that Heather was wearing, she slipped through the arms of the one of the rescuers, and the shark grabbed her leg and started to take her down into the depths. It was at that point that Heather felt sure she was going to die according to what she told me and NBC. She just wasn’t sure if she should intake water to drown herself or simply let the shark continue to eat her and die that way. Amazingly, the shark returned Heather to the surface at which point the rescuers were able to grab her again. However, this time the rescuers were in a "tug-of-war" with the shark, and Heather was the "rope". Heather heard a "popping sound"(thinking that her leg was being dislocated)as she broke free. However, once inside the boat, Heather looked down and saw that her leg had been bitten off at mid-thigh(Heather lost a lot of blood and almost died via exsanguination/shock). Meanwhile, the shark must have been very hungry as it started to attack another lady who was desperately trying to pull herself out of the water (using netting which was thrown over the side of the NOAA vessel). However, the lady was overweight and was having a very difficult time getting herself out of the water. At that time, a high-powered rifle was finally deployed to drive the shark away. It is assumed that the shark was killed, but this is not known for sure. I am all for the conservation of shark species worldwide. However, the above situation was an obvious exception. Over a year after the above attack, Heather showed amazing courage by accepting an invitation to shark dive with me in the Bahamas for the NBC WEEKEND TODAY television program. However, once the sharks appeared on scene with us at Nassau, Heather requested to discontinue the dive(understandably so). Nonetheless, her courage for even attempting the dive and the positive attitude that she radiates in her daily life are inspiration to us all. Eco continues about diver(newly-wed couple)who was killed by a white shark off of Australia: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – One of the US talkback shows contacted her some time back (they were doing a show on tragic widows) and offered to fly her over to appear but she clearly had no desire to go through the events again.  Understandably so. I do not have any clearer details of the attack except what I posted.  The attack happened at Byron Bay which is considered out of the usual territory of a white pointer (it was in warm water up north).  The attack was quick. They saw it on the bottom, her husband pushed her and by the time she managed to turn around she only felt the force of the sharks tail. I’ve forgotton the exact size but from what I can remember it was the max. for the species.  A fishing boat did later hook it, it was longer than the boat, and it dragged the boat for miles, it regurgitated some stomach contents and broke free. There was talk of it being a sick/rogue shark due to its location. I am most interested to see if such electronic shark repellent technology could have prevented the above attack. I was the first to test the SharkPOD in the USA(off the coast of Los Angeles for the Discovery Channel, "Next Step" television program which is to be broadcast internationally if it hasn’t been already-it has already been broadcast twice throughout the USA. Ron and Valerie Taylor were the first to test the SharkPOD in Australia. I had met them both in Singapore during the ADEC dive equipment trade show where the SharkPOD was first being released commercially. You’ve met Ron and Val Taylor !!!  Now they are shark lovers extraordinaire !!!!   That Val Taylor is one brave lady.  Amazingly dedicated couple.

Yes, I had met both of them and have been in touch with them via email from time to time. I am a fan of their work as well. For more detail on my SharkPOD testing, please access the Honolulu Star- Bulletin Newspaper article which I had appeared in throughout the Hawaiian Islands on December 22, 1997: http://starbulletin.com/97/12/22/features/index.html Sounds really exciting !   I remember seeing a show where they were investigating using  some sort of sonar "wall" instead of netting.   IE; transmitter placed and one point – receiver at other end further down the coastline to prevent sharks entering the swimming area.  They were testing the concept with some sort of sonar wand that repelled the sharks. It was tricky stuff as the shark had to get close enough for them to prod it with the want but it was trying to ascertain whether the idea would work.  Do you know of any developments with this??

Not really. But will look into it for you. I am all for anything that helps the sharks and other sea creatures.  Our shark nets over here are marine animal death traps.

Me too. Did you see my earlier post on how the shark netting program in South Africa was being reduced because of budget cuts to the Natal Sharks Board (which supervises the netting program there)? The Star-Bulletin article was mostly accurate. However, the SharkPOD is not a "sonic" device as the article mistakenly depicts in the opening paragraph. Instead, the SharkPOD emits a continuous, cocooning electrical field which is intended to protect from possible shark attack. I will soon be using another electronic shark repellent technology which is currently being developed in Australia(by another manufacturer)and is being billed as an even more effective electronic repellent than the SharkPOD. I will be using this Australian technology with tiger and grey reef sharks throughout the Hawaiian Islands. Also with tiger, bull and lemon sharks in the Bahamas. And with great white sharks off of Dyer Island, South Africa. Thank you for providing your information.  It was very interesting.  I have been lucky enough to encounter sharks while diving – something one doesn’t forget in a hurry !!

Agreed! Look forward to email exchanging with you again..

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Question:

Where can I buy some fly fish?

Response:

Where can I buy some fly fish?

You can buy some really "fly" fish at the Homeboy ShoppingClub.  They gots the flyest and the most freshest fish they is Homey! — Gordon Churchill Flyfish NC http://www.planet-nc.com/flyfishnc/ Striped Bass on the Roanoke River, Hybrids on Jordan Lake, Largemouths on surface.  Pickup and dropoff in Research Triangle Park

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: Where can I buy some fly fish? I tell you what… you come over and paint my ceiling, Mike, and I’ll give you some fly fish. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

Response:

Where can I buy some fly fish?

On the waterfront at Oistins, Barbados.  Delicious fried. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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Question:

Path: (trim) If you are looking for an inexpensive fly foatant go to any drug store and buy a product called Aboline. Get the unscented. For about $5.00 you’ll get a many year supply.

Al: you are right about Albolene. The stuff works exactly like Gink.   But…once you’ve got that $5 lifetime supply, have you been able to figure out how to put into a usable container? I tried melting the stuff once, then pouring it into an old Gink tube. When it set, it was too thick to squeeze out, and I’m not so sure melting doesn’t cause it to lose some of its floating quality.  Would appreciate any suggestions. John

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That powder in the tub stuff is dessicant! It absorbs the water on the fly so you can use more flotant. My favorite flotant is the Orvis stuff which is a liquid. You dump your dry fly in ther, give it a few false casts and away you go. Don’t know what it is or why it works, just that it works better for me than the silicon pastes.      Speaking about the paste types flotants, I have heard two ways of using them. One is to apply the paste sparingly to the feather barbules, the other to coat the body of the fly with it. Which way do you other flyfishers use it?      Trey Monroe

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    Speaking about the paste types flotants, I have heard two ways of using them. One is to apply the paste sparingly to the feather barbules, the other to coat the body of the fly with it. Which way do you other flyfishers use it?     Trey Monroe

With Gink, I usually take a microscopic amount and rub into both the body and the hackle.  It seems to work pretty well…I notice my dries definitely don’t get waterlogged as quickly when I use it. Scott W.

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That powder in the tub stuff is dessicant! It absorbs the water on the fly so you can use more flotant. My favorite flotant is the Orvis stuff which is a liquid. You dump your dry fly in ther, give it a few false casts and away you go. Don’t know what it is or why it works, just that it works better for me than the silicon pastes.     Speaking about the paste types flotants, I have heard two ways of using them. One is to apply the paste sparingly to the feather barbules, the other to coat the body of the fly with it. Which way do you other flyfishers use it?     Trey Monroe

Hi Trey I apply it sparingly to the complete fly. All the paste does is provide a water barrier to keep the fly from soaking up water. Even at that after catching several fish a fly can be come water logged. The fly floatant my company manufacturers also helps keep hands soft. For me the constant wetting and drying of my hands makes them real dry after a few days fishing. I use the dessicant powder to quickly dry a watter logged fly and the Orvis liquid I believe is a sylicone based floatant. If you are looking for an inexpensive fly foatant go to any drug store and buy a product called Aboline. Get the unscented. For about $5.00 you’ll get a many year supply. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

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Here are some questions for the experts in this group: Should flotant be applied only to a completely dry fly?  If not, what degree of dampness is ok (real easy to describe, I know!)? What type and brand is best liked, and why?  Do the flys so treated need to be kept separate from the rest (are they messy)? Thanks for the advice!

Check "Tips and Techniques" at    http://www.flyline.com   there is a whole thing about treating wet dry and soggy flies!    -Ralph —

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: : Here are some questions for the experts in this group: : Should flotant be applied only to a completely dry fly?   : Yes it should, if it is a dryfly you are using and not a : nymph or wet fly. : If not, : what degree of dampness is ok (real easy to describe, I know!)? : What type and brand is best liked, and why?   : I use dessicant crytals to completely dry the fly before reapplying : floatant if my fly gets soggy. Most of the floatants are pretty much : the same thing, so brand doesn’t matter much. : Do the flys so : treated need to be kept separate from the rest (are they messy)? : Not if it is stored with other dryflies. : Darryl Hayashida : This is a good thread…because I’ve always wondered about floatants. : There are obviously many kinds on the market, from the spray-can : variety to Gerkhe’s Gink.  I’ve used the Gink alot and I honestly : think it makes a difference.  What do others think? : Also…what about these dessicants as mentioned above?  How is this : accomplished?  And what about this powder-in-a-tub stuff that you roll : your fly around in? : Curious Scott Most of the "crystals" are silica gel which is a hygroscopic (water loving) material.  I like to keep mine in an empty film case.  I put the fly in, lid on, give it a shake and if time permits, leave it inside for a few minutes.  I don’t even bother to clip off the tippet, as the plastic case doesn’t hurt it.  After a few minutes, remove the fly, blow off any clinging particles and you’re ready to go.  If you can, get "indicating" desicants that change color when wet.  Mine change from dark blue (dry) to pink (wet).    After a few trips (maybe 20 flies) the gel is starting to turn pink, so I throw it in a dry frying pan and cook the gel on medium heat for a few minutes until it turns dark blue again. Pour it onto some foil and let it cool for a minute before sealing back in the film case.  (Wash the frying pan well after use!).   Remember, these are powerful drying agents that can suck the moisture out of the air, so if they aren’t kept sealed, they’ll turn pink overnight. Pete

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Here are some questions for the experts in this group: Should flotant be applied only to a completely dry fly?  If not, what degree of dampness is ok (real easy to describe, I know!)? What type and brand is best liked, and why?  Do the flys so treated need to be kept separate from the rest (are they messy)? Thanks for the advice! —   David B. Perry   P.O. Box 808 L-419              phone:  (510) 423-7034

Response:

Here are some questions for the experts in this group: Should flotant be applied only to a completely dry fly?  If not, what degree of dampness is ok (real easy to describe, I know!)? What type and brand is best liked, and why?  Do the flys so treated need to be kept separate from the rest (are they messy)? Thanks for the advice!

use so much that a little oil slick forms around the bug in the water. the theory here is that the fish think the Exxon Valdez captain is on the bottle again and they come looking around for dead seagulls. thus, you’ll want to tie on a #2 adams, and twitch it. TimW

Response:

Here are some questions for the experts in this group: Should flotant be applied only to a completely dry fly?  

Yes it should, if it is a dryfly you are using and not a nymph or wet fly. If not, what degree of dampness is ok (real easy to describe, I know!)? What type and brand is best liked, and why?  

I use dessicant crytals to completely dry the fly before reapplying floatant if my fly gets soggy. Most of the floatants are pretty much the same thing, so brand doesn’t matter much. Do the flys so treated need to be kept separate from the rest (are they messy)?

Not if it is stored with other dryflies. Darryl Hayashida

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here are some questions for the experts in this group: Should flotant be applied only to a completely dry fly?   Yes it should, if it is a dryfly you are using and not a nymph or wet fly. If not, what degree of dampness is ok (real easy to describe, I know!)? What type and brand is best liked, and why?   I use dessicant crytals to completely dry the fly before reapplying floatant if my fly gets soggy. Most of the floatants are pretty much the same thing, so brand doesn’t matter much. Do the flys so treated need to be kept separate from the rest (are they messy)? Not if it is stored with other dryflies. Darryl Hayashida

This is a good thread…because I’ve always wondered about floatants. There are obviously many kinds on the market, from the spray-can variety to Gerkhe’s Gink.  I’ve used the Gink alot and I honestly think it makes a difference.  What do others think? Also…what about these dessicants as mentioned above?  How is this accomplished?  And what about this powder-in-a-tub stuff that you roll your fly around in? Curious Scott

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Question:

Are you *sure* this was about fishing!!! Oliver Inverness-shire;  Scotland "Lead me not into temptation – I can do it myself"

Response:

Before anyone gets crazy, this has nothing to do with bestiality.  My buddy has heard stories (yeah, right, another one of those "my friend" stories) of seducing brown trout in New Zealand by stealthily sneaking up on them and immobilizing them by stroking their bellies.  True or myth? Tickling or "guddling" trout is ancient in England, described in many books. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

Yup did it myself as a boy, ok only on small streams where you c can reach underneath the bank, slowly move your fingers along untiil you make contact, gently tickle the trout away from the bank and then flip it out of the water. I prefer fly fishing nowardays Regads

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I have tickled trout..It works. also works with goldfish (at least the ones in my pond) regards Kyfho2

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Before anyone gets crazy, this has nothing to do with bestiality.  My buddy has heard stories (yeah, right, another one of those "my friend" stories) of seducing brown trout in New Zealand by stealthily sneaking up on them and immobilizing them by stroking their bellies.  True or myth? Brent

Not only can you tickle the bellies of trout, *that* is how you fish with hands only. As a boy, all my relatives would rendezvous on my         grandfather’s ranch during the haying season each August. It was known as "The Box Bar Ranch," and it stretched along Spring Creek, twelve miles outside of Saratoga, Wyoming. The day we began work in the fields along Spring Creek, during our break for lunch my uncles would place a couple of us in the water upstream, and a couple downstream.  The rest of us would then walk into the middle of the stream.  The trout would quickly retreat to the sides where the stream had cut deeply underneath the sod. Slowly, we would approach the banks, submerging our hands beneath the overhanging sod and placing them under the trout.  We could then gently rub the bellies of the fish. When we felt sure of our hand placement, SNAP!, with a quick flick of the wrist the trout would be airborne, heading for a soft landing in the mowed hay lying along the banks of the stream.   *Catch and eat* was the order of the day on the Box Bar Ranch, along Spring Creek, Saratoga, Wyoming, in the early sixties. Ed Hunsaker Mgr., Henry’s Fork Lodge 1994, 1995 —

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Not a good idea trying the above where mink are endemic !!! Muskrats can also cause pucker.  This happened to a friend back in

high school.  I’d never seen the whites of anyone’s eyes get so large.

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We used to do this as kids in the rivers in the Scottish/ English Borders: 1.  stand in a river in wellies but up to your knees in freezing water.  (it’s best to wear shorts so you don’t have to explain to geriatric parents.  2.  Fell gently under big stones or banks ’til you find a fish.  3.  VERY gently tickle it’s tummy until you can grab it.   THATS the theory!  Usually, you miss the grab, fall in and freeze for hours going home when (final indignity) you get a row.  Good fun though!! David Malone knows how. Oliver Inverness-shire;  Scotland "Lead me not into temptation – I can do it myself"

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seducing brown trout in New Zealand by stealthily sneaking up on them and immobilizing them by stroking their bellies.  True or myth? Brent True. Easy to do if you know of an overhanging bank on a stream where you can reach under *SLOWLY* and very gently stroke the fish with your fingers and very slowly move your hand till you think you have the fishes centre of gravity in your palm and SCOOP the fish out. You cannot grab hold of it.

Reminds of the stories my dad told me ("Tall Tales of Oklahoma") about guys who’d haul big spawning catfish out of the mud.   A big flathead or blue cat would get the best of them sometimes (or so the stories go) and they’d never be heard from again…

Response:

Before anyone gets crazy, this has nothing to do with bestiality.  My buddy has heard stories (yeah, right, another one of those "my friend" stories) of seducing brown trout in New Zealand by stealthily sneaking up on them and immobilizing them by stroking their bellies.  True or myth? Brent

True, I’ve done it often years ago here in holland… (it’s here an illegal way of fishing)

Response:

There was an english TV-series as well, where the method was shown. Seemed to work fine I don’t remember the original name of the series, but it was called in Finland ‘See you later, honey’ BR, Eki

Response:

Before anyone gets crazy, this has nothing to do with bestiality.  My buddy has heard stories (yeah, right, another one of those "my friend" stories) of seducing brown trout in New Zealand by stealthily sneaking up on them and immobilizing them by stroking their bellies.  True or myth? Brent

It’s perfectly true, but I’ve been told it only works on male trout. And how do you determine if it is a male? By giving it a couple of test tickles.

Response:

Suggested reading on the subject is the Curtis Creek Manifesto by Sheridan Anderson.  He spends an illustrated page on the subject. Jim, Nevada Jim’s Outdoor Sports, Elko, Nevada

Response:

I like the "test tickles" joke. Made me laugh. But no-one seems to be taking this seriously. Tickling trout does work. Although it’s not compatible with catch-and-release. You tickle trout (usually in small mountain streams) when you are hungry. Trout usually hide underneath something when they get scared. A hollow space underneath a rock can harbor a half a dozen tightly packed fish. All squashed together. Reach in there with your hand and tickle one along its side and underbelly, just like you were another fish jamming youreself in there–just long enough to figure out where the head and gills are. Then pinch real hard right at the back of the gills, and then head for the campfire. —  Sandy Pittendrigh          –O0       (406) 585-6600-5276

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The reason this works is that the trout thinks you are is making sexual advances. Ernie Harrison

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I made a trout laugh once. I threatened to catch it!

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True – works with ‘ladies’ too Oliver Inverness-shire;  Scotland "Lead me not into temptation – I can do it myself"

Response:

Before anyone gets crazy, this has nothing to do with bestiality.  My buddy has heard stories (yeah, right, another one of those "my friend" stories) of seducing brown trout in New Zealand by stealthily sneaking up on them and immobilizing them by stroking their bellies.  True or myth? Brent

Response:

Tickling or "guddling" trout is ancient in England, described in many books.

… and it can still be practiced today.  While studying Arctic grayling in a river in northern Alaska, a fisheries biologist whom I know saw an unusual sight – a lake trout, which had evidently swum up into the river from a large lake downstream.  The fish was holding tight against the bank, and in order to confirm that it was indeed a lake trout, the biologist "tickled" it and lifted it out of the water. Woods Hole, MA   USA

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 seducing brown trout in New Zealand by stealthily sneaking up on them and immobilizing them by stroking their bellies.  True or myth? Brent

True. Easy to do if you know of an overhanging bank on a stream where you can reach under *SLOWLY* and very gently stroke the fish with your fingers and very slowly move your hand till you think you have the fishes centre of gravity in your palm and SCOOP the fish out. You cannot grab hold of it. Not a good idea trying the above where mink are endemic !!! Pete Marrow work: http://ui.nmh.ac.uk/gsrg.html play: http://www.gorp.com/gorp/activity/scottish_ff_faq.htm

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True. Easy to do if you know of an overhanging bank on a stream where you can reach under *SLOWLY* and very gently stroke the fish with your fingers and very

The other benefit of this technique is that the fish will magically grow larger as this is performmed Tim Walker

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Before anyone gets crazy, this has nothing to do with bestiality.  My buddy has heard stories (yeah, right, another one of those "my friend" stories) of seducing brown trout in New Zealand by stealthily sneaking up on them and immobilizing them by stroking their bellies.  True or myth?

Tickling or "guddling" trout is ancient in England, described in many books. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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The book that comes to mind is "How Green Was My Valley" about a coal mining family in wales (also made into an academy award winning movie, but I don’t think the movie talks about tickling trout).   Matt Carey

: Before anyone gets crazy, this has nothing to do with bestiality.  My : buddy has heard stories (yeah, right, another one of those "my friend" : stories) of seducing brown trout in New Zealand by stealthily sneaking up : on them and immobilizing them by stroking their bellies.  True or myth? : Tickling or "guddling" trout is ancient in England, described in many books. : — : |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | : |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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Before anyone gets crazy, this has nothing to do with bestiality.  My buddy has heard stories (yeah, right, another one of those "my friend" stories) of seducing brown trout in New Zealand by stealthily sneaking up on them and immobilizing them by stroking their bellies.  True or myth?

 Getting close enough to New Zealand Brown trout to tickle their bellies.. I think you want to post this on R.O.F.F. Fantasies…Tickle thier bellies…I think your friend is doing more than tickling your belly..

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Before anyone gets crazy, this has nothing to do with bestiality.  My buddy has heard stories (yeah, right, another one of those "my friend" stories) of seducing brown trout in New Zealand by stealthily sneaking up on them and immobilizing them by stroking their bellies.  True or myth? Tickling or "guddling" trout is ancient in England, described in many books.

It’s usually done where ther are undercut banks and the trout may be reached by shore.  It can be described much better in some survival books such as, "The S.A.S. Survival Handbook". Steve —

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Before anyone gets crazy, this has nothing to do with bestiality.  My buddy has heard stories (yeah, right, another one of those "my friend" stories) of seducing brown trout in New Zealand by stealthily sneaking up on them and immobilizing them by stroking their bellies.  True or myth?

Brent, this brings back some old memories. Yes, ‘tickling trout’ is possible and something I’ve done many times as a lad in England. Most of the good trout waters were posted/private and we needed a way to catch fish without a rod. If we didn’t have a pole, we couldn’t possibly be poaching.   We would stand motionless in the water (I remember one favourite place was the river Mole just down from Box Hill) until the trout returned to their feeding stations. People that don’t move didn’t bother them at all. Then we would stretch our hands out about a foot or so (slowly) under a trout and ‘flutter’ our fingers while gradually lifting them and getting closer to the trout’s belly. The action appeared to lull them to sleep and we’d eventually end up with our hands actually touching the fish. Then we just lifted them out of the water and into the bag. Seems to work with most species of trout although ours were mostly speckles. Just for the record – I tried this with pike and it didn’t have the same effect although I did manage to catch pike with my bare hands. My fishing techniques have become somewhat more sophisticated since. David E. Malone All opinions expressed are my own.

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Question:

Hello, I will have the opportunity to go fly fishing in Jasper Nation Park (Alberta, Canada) and could surely use any advice on fishing in the area. I am familiar with some of Alberta’s central streams and prefer to fish small streams, usually for browns and rainbows.  Any recommendations on ’small’ trouty streams in Jasper?   It seems everyone I talk to fish the lakes (Maligne, Moab etc) only.   Being both boatless & floattube-less lakes lose their appeal quickly. As comedian Stephen Wright(sp) states "There’s a fine line between fishing and standing on the shoreline looking like an idiot." Any recommendations or suggestions would be highly appreciated. Thanks, Allan — =       Allan Young        = If I had only one semester to live I would = = "The lowly cs undergrad" = spend it in MATH 215 lectures.  That way   = =   University of Alberta  =       it would seem like an eternity.      =

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I think your best bet is Maligne, you might also want to try Medicine lake.  You can fish it from the boulders on the far shore and get into some decent fish.  I am planning on fishing Maligne next weekend, I’ll let you know how it turns out. Cam Forster St. Albert

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hi,    i recently found a "New in Box" fly rod.  I’m sure that someone on this news feed can provide some information for me (at least I hope so). It is a bamboo flyrod made by James Heddon’s Sons in Dowagiac, Michigan. Model T170, 6 1/2′ in length.  It says Heddon Deluxe on the shaft, with a number 4 – 3 on the balsa cork handle.  It is a two piece rod with the obligatory aluminum traveling tube. Anyone have an idea of when it might have been made? Anyone every heard of James Heddon’s Sons?  I’ve also got about 200 hundred of their big game lures (sure don’t look like flys to me . Are they still in existence?  I wouldn’t mind knowing when it was sold (I’m guessing in the 40’s to 50’s.), and what it’s good for. I found the rod & equipment in the garage of a recently deceased relative.  He was quite the sportsman.  This particular rod was never used (or even had a reel attached – the shipping notice is still attached), and looks like a nice one.  I now have part of the equipment needed to finally break into fly fishing (of course, what I should do is unload all of this stuff & buy my wife a new washer/dryer, but i’m not too stupid). Any information would be helpful, Thanks, Larry —          "There is NO kill like a guns kill"        CMDR. W. Driscoll, USNR Code 5585                             (202)767-3040  

Although the Heddon Company is still in operation, I expect they stopped making split cane rods many years ago.  Off-hand I would guess your rod was made in the mid 1960s.  I think the 4-3 you mention refers to suggested size of line.  The earlier HDH, HCH, IFI type of line designation was replaced by the number in the ’60s.  Shorter rods were more in fashion a bit later too. Heddon was a good solid production company.  Its rods were not high end custom products, like Garrisons, Dickersons, and Paynes. Is there an extra tip? Heddons, IMHO, should be worth $100 to $200.  There are some oddball collectors who have paid a bit more.  I believe a President model (gold fittings) once brought a thousand.  Your rod is not a president model, but it is in a desirable short size, and if condition is pristine as you say, it could bring a bit more.  With two tips, it could sell RETAIL for even $400-500 (quite optimistically speaking).  OTOH, a dealer would pay you about half of what he thought he could sell it for. Why not keep it and fish with it?  You can pay $400-500  for a fancy graphite fly rod today. I’d rather use an old Heddon. Dave

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hi,         i recently found a "New in Box" fly rod.  I’m sure that someone on this news feed can provide some information for me (at least I hope so). It is a bamboo flyrod made by James Heddon’s Sons in Dowagiac, Michigan. Model T170, 6 1/2′ in length.  It says Heddon Deluxe on the shaft, with a number 4 – 3 on the balsa cork handle.  It is a two piece rod with the obligatory aluminum traveling tube. Anyone have an idea of when it might have been made? Anyone every heard of James Heddon’s Sons?  I’ve also got about 200 hundred of their big game lures (sure don’t look like flys to me . Are they still in existence?  I wouldn’t mind knowing when it was sold (I’m guessing in the 40’s to 50’s.), and what it’s good for. I found the rod & equipment in the garage of a recently deceased relative.  He was quite the sportsman.  This particular rod was never used (or even had a reel attached – the shipping notice is still attached), and looks like a nice one.  I now have part of the equipment needed to finally break into fly fishing (of course, what I should do is unload all of this stuff & buy my wife a new washer/dryer, but i’m not too stupid). Any information would be helpful, Thanks, Larry —           "There is NO kill like a guns kill"    CMDR. W. Driscoll, USNR Code 5585                                 (202)767-3040  

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