Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing » Northern California Fly Fishing?????

Northern California Fly Fishing?????

Question:

Looking at a possible Northern California trip the first part of October. Would like it to be a guided trip for a minimum of two days. Anyone have any suggestions as where to go? Have looked on the net and will probably go to the Redding area. Want it to be private as much as possible. Want to fish for Salmon or trout, doesn’t matter, just want to be catered too and guided for a day or two. Some advice would be helpful in the decision, was thinking of a lodge…. Thanks a bunch Paul

Response:

Suggest you contact ROFF’s own Bill Kiene. Look up http://www.kiene.com. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Well, we liked this place a lot. Take a look and let me know what you think. Richard PS: Nice salmon when I was there!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Looking at a possible Northern California trip the first part of October. Would like it to be a guided trip for a minimum of two days. Anyone have any suggestions as where to go? Have looked on the net and will probably go to the Redding area. Want it to be private as much as possible. Want to fish for Salmon or trout, doesn’t matter, just want to be catered too and guided for a day or two. Some advice would be helpful in the decision, was thinking of a lodge…. Thanks a bunch Paul

Response:

Author: admin on
Category: Fly Fishing
Tags: Fly Fishing

Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing » Two-weight opinions please!

Two-weight opinions please!

Question:

I’m thinking real hard about incorporating a two-weight into my fly rod arsenal, and I’d like some opinions on their versatility. Is it a "perfect conditions" only rod, or can you get out in a little wind or water on the higher side? Can it handle mid-range flies, small streamers, weighted nymphs, maybe a smallish wooly bugger? Or is it limited to small dries and wets? What about small poppers? I fish more for warm water fish than trout, and I know a two-weight would be adequate for our stream trout in Pennsylvania, but I would use this a lot for bluegill and crappie and my "experimenting" in ponds and coves from my float tube. I also like to push the envelope and challenge all my rods, so I’d see what I could do on bass and steelhead in Lake Erie tribs in the fall. Right now, I’m looking at either Orvis Silver Label two-weight, either the 7′ 9" or 8′ 4" model. Are the Trident models worth twice as much? Any other brands I should consider? Thanks for all opinions! John Scherrer http://www.cianow.com "Courage is being scared to death…and saddling up anyway." – John Wayne

Response:

–MS_Mac_OE_3043294664_217493_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable <HTML <HEAD <TITLETwo-weight opinions please!</TITLE </HEAD <BODY I’m thinking real hard … I also like to push the envelope and challenge all my r= ods, so I’d see what I could do on bass and steelhead in Lake Erie tribs in = the fall.<BR … Thanks for all opinions!<BR <BR John Scherrer<BR <FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"<Uhttp://www.cianow.com<BR </U</FONT<BR <FONT SIZE=3D"4""Courage is being scared to death…and saddling up any= way." <BR – <IJohn Wayne</I</FONT </BODY </HTML Be careful what you ask for, someone around here may give you their opinion on using a 2wt for steelhead and on posting in html. Hint: Wear asbestos. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. I’m thinking real hard about incorporating a two-weight into my fly rod arsenal, and I’d like some opinions on their versatility. Right now, I’m looking at either Orvis Silver Label two-weight, either the 7′ 9" or 8′ 4" model. Are the Trident models worth twice as much? Any other brands I should consider? Thanks for all opinions! John Scherrer

John, when you post to a newsgroup NEVER post in MIME format. Use basic plain text. Your post is jibberish to a lot of people and wastes time and money for some. Back to your question. What is the point of adding the 2 wt.? Basically, you are asking if you should use a 2 wt. rod for all the applications you should not use a 2 wt. rod. I’m not sure what your question really is. If you want ultra-light line strength, use lighter tippet. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

Response:

Many of us here, Frank Church and myself to name a few use the 3wt. Cabelas 3 forks for panfish. Being 7.5′ it is ideal for bank fishing of species within it’s range. Because of it’s low cost, there is nothing lost if it is only used sporaticaly. It also is easy to store due to the 3piece take down. I often recommend it as an addition. The cost of rod, reel, line, and 7X tippets (I feel) of one of the premium makers does not justify the limited use of the smaller weight rods. John Popp

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m thinking real hard about incorporating a two-weight into my fly rod arsenal, and I’d like some opinions on their versatility. Is it a "perfect conditions" only rod, or can you get out in a little wind or water on the higher side? Can it handle mid-range flies, small streamers, weighted nymphs, maybe a smallish wooly bugger? Or is it limited to small dries and wets? What about small poppers? I fish more for warm water fish than trout, and I know a two-weight would be adequate for our stream trout in Pennsylvania, but I would use this a lot for bluegill and crappie and my "experimenting" in ponds and coves from my float tube. I also like to push the envelope and challenge all my rods, so I’d see what I could do on bass and steelhead in Lake Erie tribs in the fall. Right now, I’m looking at either Orvis Silver Label two-weight, either the 7′ 9" or 8′ 4" model. Are the Trident models worth twice as much? Any other brands I should consider? Thanks for all opinions! John Scherrer http://www.cianow.com "Courage is being scared to death…and saddling up anyway." – John Wayne

Response:

This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

First off, please turn off the HTML and MIME. I’m thinking real hard about incorporating a two-weight into my fly rod arsenal, and I’d like some opinions on their versatility.

They are not versatile, but can be a useful and fun rod in the right conditions and for the right fish. Is it a "perfect conditions" only rod, or can you get out in a little wind or water on the higher side? Can it handle mid-range flies, small streamers, weighted nymphs, maybe a smallish wooly bugger? Or is it limited to small dries and wets? What about small poppers?

It doesn’t have to be perfect conditions, I take mine out in light wind, but generally when the water is on the high side I bring a different rod. I use small to mid-sized flies, no streamers, nothing weighted, haven’t fished with poppers so I wouldn’t know. I fish more for warm water fish than trout, and I know a two-weight would be adequate for our stream trout in Pennsylvania, but I would use this a lot for bluegill and crappie and my "experimenting" in ponds and coves from my float tube.

A 2-weight is a blast with bluegill and crappie. I also like to push the envelope and challenge all my rods, so I’d see what I could do on bass and steelhead in Lake Erie tribs in the fall.

I’d pass on the bass and steelhead though, the tippet size usually used with a 2-weight would snap right quick. You could use a heavier tippet and fight the fish from the reel, but then what’s the point of the 2-weight. Right now, I’m looking at either Orvis Silver Label two-weight, either the 7′ 9" or 8′ 4" model. Are the Trident models worth twice as much? Any other brands I should consider?

I have the 7′9" equivalent of the silver label (was called something different back then). Personally I don’t think the non-silver labels are worth the price, but if you are into asthetics they might be. You might want to consider what type of action you prefer since the 7′9" model is a really slow action and the tridents are relatively fast action. Later, - Ken

Response:

Is there any concern about how much protection the rod can provide ? Or is that not a concern among fly fisherpeople ?

I have found that Trojans and seat belts provide far better protection than any fishing rod could ever give. If I’m ever attacked by a rabid trout, I will be quite willing to re-evaluate. Vegetables aren’t food. Vegetables are what the food eats.

Response:

These are supposed to be close-in rods so don’t buy some fast 2 wt. in the belief it adds to it’s versatility. Here’s my preferences in no particular order. Orvis 7′ 9" T&T 7′ XL Sage LL 279 Winston IM6 7′

I will be picking up an Orvis Silver Label 792 this weekend. The local Orvis shop here is willing to let me try it out for a week or two with no obligation to buy…now that is customer service (I purchased my 4wt. from the same shop 2 years ago)! Apparently, the Silver Label 792 is the same blank as the Superfine/Ultra Fine model with the only real difference being the Silver Label has a walnut, uplocking reel seat as opposed to the Ultra Fine’s cork, banded seat. And of course, the price…the Silver Label is about $75.00 USD less than the Ultra Fine. Actually, it was you Peter who tipped me off about this….thx. :-) I’ll also be trying out a T&T LPS 802. I’m sure they are both excellent rods and I will reserve my final judgment until I’ve had a chance to use them both. Having said that, I will say that the T&T has got to be one helluva rod and really stand out for me to justify spending the extra $$$$ ($380.00 for TT vs. $230.00 for Orvis). We will see. Also..great tip on the leader..thx again Peter. Natty

Response:

Never felt the need to use my rod for protection. I have, on occasion, used protection on my rod though. Does that count?

Nope. Before you buy.

Response:

What weight would you need to feel comfortable, Big Dale? I’m pretty good at around 165 myself. I suspect Dale prefers to pack just a bit more. :)

125 is adequate for those with steady hands and a steely eye. OBROFF Depends on the two weight. One of the biggest problems with two is the use of factory leaders. The little line just can’t turn over a 024 thou butt. So make your own leaders with .013 to .015 butt sections and the versatility of your little rod goes way up. These are supposed to be close-in rods so don’t buy some fast 2 wt. in the belief it adds to it’s versatility. Here’s my preferences in no particular order. Orvis 7′ 9" T&T 7′ XL Sage LL 279 Winston IM6 7′ Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

rod can provide ? Or is that not a concern among fly fisherpeople ?

I do not consider a 2 weight rod an adequate substitute for a Ruger or a twelve gauge. Big Dale. Big Dale

Response:

Wow! I see you’re from Buffalo!!!! One of my favorite places in the world. Been thru a few times, and came out on do-it-yourself hunt at Bud Love back in the mid-80’s (seems like yesterday!) Taking the family out next month for Badlands, Rushmore, Devil’s Tower, 2/3 nights at Buffalo to see the Bighorns and Custer’s battlefield, then over to Cody, Yellowstone and Jackson Hole. Fishing will be incidental, not the purpose of the trip, if you know of any day trips or float trips or do-it-yourself areas, let me know! John Scherrer http://www.cianow.com

Author: admin on
Category: Fly Fishing
Tags: Fly Fishing

Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing » making barbless hooks

making barbless hooks

Question:

Al, I’ve been doing this for the last 3 years. I use a pair of needle-nose pliers and just crimp the barb down. In some cases, it actually cracks off. I do it when I open the lure package and put the lure in my tackle box. I’ve lost a couple of fish I might otherwise have landed but I fish mostly catch-and-release so it’s not a big deal. The only time I don’t do this is with live bait so the bait will stay on the hook. Rumor has it that is why the barb was invented in the first place. Tom Kadlec I was reading that you can flatten the barb down (with forceps) on the waterside to achieve the same effect as a barbless hook. I’m trying to picture this and what they mean by waterside. The book says that if you maintain pressure on the fish you do not need the barb. It is easier to remove from the fish. Al

Tom Kadlec

Response:

<snipped The book says that if you maintain pressure on the fish you do not need the barb. It is easier to remove from the fish. Al

Easier said than done. :) I started de-barbing at the end of last season… just squash it down so it can’t catch on anything, I use pliers. Back to the point… I’ve lost more fish than usual, but I get lazy about keeping the pressure on… gonna have to work on that now, I guess. :) — – goat (Mark S’) www.goatlike.com – art & design

Response:

Other point that are interesting is that if you use over size trebles you may cause unnecessary damage to to the fish, especially loose hooks outside the fish’s mouth, because they can fly around and catch the fish’s eye. You might say why care? I care because there is some opposition to fishing. I have a close relative that at an early age was eager to fish but some how developed an adversion to fishing. It is important to have in your arsenal this knowledge to support this sport. I’m looking for a one step tool that can remove a hook or if i so choose cut the barb off. Ideally it would be like predator pliers with a cutting edge on it. Al

Response:

I was reading that you can flatten the barb down (with forceps) on the waterside to achieve the same effect as a barbless hook. I’m trying to picture this and what they mean by waterside. The book says that if you maintain pressure on the fish you do not need the barb. It is easier to remove from the fish. Al

Response:

Jajwuth writes I was reading that you can flatten the barb down (with forceps) on the waterside to achieve the same effect as a barbless hook. I’m trying to picture this and what they mean by waterside

Just crimp the barb down with pliers or whatever so the barb’s point is against the hook’s bend. I assume by "waterside" they mean you can do it while you’re out fishing, no advance work needed. . It is easier to remove from the fish. Easier to remove from the fisherman too.

Response:

Author: admin on
Category: Fly Fishing
Tags: Fly Fishing

Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing Reel » TRADITIONS

TRADITIONS

Question:

FLyfishing rests on casting the weight of the line. That cast has to have an aesthetic quality; it should pleasing to the eye and have a pleasing feel to the caster; that means that sinking lines are in AND so might lead (on the fly YES and maybe on the leader) and even indicators if they do not detract significantly from the aesthetic quality of the cast! Then you’d have to cut me some slack when I fish the runoff with 10 splitshot. The art is not the cast then. The art here is the magnificence of a rocky mountain runoff… TimW

I’ll cut you slack any time you ask. Read what I said; That cast has to have an aesthetic quality; it should be pleasing to the eye and have a pleasing feel to the caster;

if you get that when you use 10 split shot and it looks that why to the critical eye of another flyfisher then you fly cating and you’re a better caster than I (or have a harder head)

Response:

<snip : Time : for another glass of a great Chilean red wine. Now there is a relatively recent TRADITION that I can heartily endorse! With or without a barbecued leg of lamb and a Chilean river in the background…. !Vive el comercio libre con Chile! Burnaby, BC

Response:

IMO, fly fishing is fishing an imitation of a natural food form, unweighted, solely using the weight of the fly line to cast. No bobbers, no split shot, etc. Everything else is "fishing with a fly". Sadly, this means that my beloved Atlantic salmon fishing (shudder, shudder), with centuries of tradition behind it, is fishing with a fly. At least no weight is allowed, either in the fly or on the leader. Does this matter? YES! Is it just semantics? No. How can one justify a "fly fishing only" section when bobbers and shotted leaders are permitted. It’s ludicrous. How about spooling a fly rod and reel with mono, nonsense. There is nothing wrong with a little yarn indicator which doesn’t float the fly, this is no different than using a dry fly (or the colored end of the line) as an indicator (which I do all the time where two or more flies are permitted). However, if the indicator is not an imitation of a natural insect and floats the nymph, you are bobber fishing, period. Do I do this? You bet! In deep, heavy water, fly fishing is usually a waste of time, fishing with a fly may, however, be very successful. However, how many times have I wished I had a noodle rod in my hands instead of a stupid fly rod, designed to cast a light line, not an ounce of lead. Chuck and duck is simply bizarre, a misuse of the equipment for some completely irrational reason. Ah, damn, George just landed me too. Time for another glass of a great Chilean red wine. Paul Marriner

Response:

[rip !] YES! Is it just semantics? No. How can one justify a "fly fishing only" section when bobbers and shotted leaders are permitted. It’s ludicrous. How about spooling a fly rod and reel with mono, nonsense. There is

and the ethics of sinking lines ? TimW

Response:

and the ethics of sinking lines ?

Although someone will surely point out the seemingly logical inconsistencies of my argument, I do not have and ethical problem with sinking or sink-tip fly lines. Most of them can be cast in a more-or-less normal fashion. My simple (some will suggest simple-minded) definition of fly fishing is "no weight or floatation _added_ to the line or leader." All else is fishing with a fly, for which a multitude of angling gear will suffice or even excel. As I tried to point out in my earlier post, such hair-splitting is only appropriate when we designate "fly fishing only" sections. I support these for a number of the excellent reasons previously posted. Paul Marriner

Response:

You guys are merciless. A.J.Thramer

Response:

Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly and the ethics of sinking lines ? TimW A floating line is nothing but a linear bobber… Think about that… And a dry fly is simply integration. TimW No, a dry fly is a derivative. Only the nymph is an integral. Although, the Royal Wulff may well be a partial derivative. – d tgades/dx

Response:

and the ethics of sinking lines ? TimW

A floating line is nothing but a linear bobber… Think about that… Jim Jim, Nevada Jim’s Outdoor Sports, Elko, NV

Response:

and the ethics of sinking lines ? TimW A floating line is nothing but a linear bobber… Think about that…

And a dry fly is simply integration. TimW

Response:

Then you’d have to cut me some slack when I fish the runoff with 10 splitshot. The art is not the cast then. The art here is the magnificence of a rocky mountain runoff… TimW

Response:

IMO, fly fishing is fishing an imitation of a natural food form, unweighted, solely using the weight of the fly line to cast. No bobbers, no split shot, etc. Everything else is "fishing with a fly".

<<snipped I like this; how else can we know we are fly fishing unless we can say what it is we are doing. However why <<an imitation of a natural food form; a soft plastic slamon egg or frog is an imitation of a natural food! Those are not flies and we all know that! Why not a combination of fibres, plastic, that combined provide no artifical movement other than that induced by the angler fished to induce a fish to take the fly into it’s mouth out of hunger, curiosity or aggresiveness. Also on the subject of the line; a couple years back I chatted with an angler on the Big Qualicum River on Van Isle. I was fishing a 14 ft double hander with split shot and an indicator (bobber) with a floating DT He used a 6ft section of850 SA shooting head nail knotted to green Amnesia running line. We both agreed we likely weren’t flyfishing. Yet his was " A singular system; unbroken from reel to fly" as GG might say. FLyfishing rests on casting the weight of the line. That cast has to have an aesthetic quality; it should pleasing to the eye and have a pleasing feel to the caster; that means that sinking lines are in AND so might lead (on the fly YES and maybe on the leader) and even indicators if they do not detract significantly from the aesthetic quality of the cast! A floating line and an unweighted fly may have the most grace; it may sometimes require more skill but it isn’t the only form of flyfishing! Ralph H.

Response:

Author: admin on
Category: Fly Fishing Reel
Tags: Fly Fishing Reel

Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing » Old MacDonald had a farm……….

Old MacDonald had a farm……….

Question:

| Hello there fellow food and nutrition enthusiasts! [chomp] | TO MEAT OR NOT TO MEAT? ( REVISED EDITION 8/10/96) | [..] | to live". Bob had NOT eaten meat since he was 23, and the results | were that his heart was dying due to lack of meat. The doctor Riiiiight! Heard of Craig Shergold?

Response:

[...] : : As usual, you totally miss the concept that most of those animals : : are fed on GRASS, which humans can’t eat. : What makes you so sure that "most of those animals are fed on : GRASS" ? What evidence do you have to support this? : Now we await the long silence….. Would that we had had to endure YOURS. Be that as it may, however, it’s clear that you have never been to a cattle-raising country in which you actually engaged in observation. The fact is that most beef cattle are raised by grazing and, in the U. S. anyway, only spend the last few weeks of life in a feedlot. It is my understanding that many other beef-producing countries dispense with the feedlot and bring the animals to market directly from the range (which is why their beef tends to be somewhat less tender and somewhat more strongly flavored than the rather bland stuff we’re used to in the U. S.). How much time does the average beef cow spend in the feedlots, Seetoh? [With any luck, we'll now endure a long silence...] — – Rich Young (E-mail will be posted publicly as I see fit. You have been warned.)

Response:

Hello there fellow food and nutrition enthusiasts! I would like to take this time to point out the double-standards by which vegetarians live by. I feel it is my duty to open the eyes

text deleted hare krishna, actually i agree with a lot of this post. IF YOU ARE NOT SELF-SUFFICIENT YOU ARE NOT A VEGETARIAN. that’s why i’m learning everything i can about self-sufficiency and sustainable, cruelty-free, organic agriculture. but i must say that the below text is a load of garbage. i’m a hare krishna devotee (please refrain from the cult jokes). i live on a krishna farm community and teach at our elementary school. all the children here have been strict vegetarians since birth. visitors are always commenting on how radiantly healthy they look. some of the older kids who go to public high school are star athletes of every sport. none have EVER eaten meat. bhaktin casey – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – TO MEAT OR NOT TO MEAT? ( REVISED EDITION 8/10/96) In a recent study, a 35 year old male, strict vegetarian of 12 years, went for a checkup at his doctors office. Thinking he was perfectly fit, the man proceeded out the office right after the checkup. The doctor chased him down the hall, and grabbed him aside then he said, " Im sorry Bob, you have 2 months to live". Bob had NOT eaten meat since he was 23, and the results were that his heart was dying due to lack of meat. The doctor said he needed meat at least occasionaly, to live. Unfortunately, the problem could not be corrected, it was too late for Bob. he died on 8/21/96. This sad episode COULD have been prevented. In another related study, Woman who are pregnant that were vegetarians averaged babies with a much lower weight than meat-eating pregnant mothers. 50% of the babies of strict vegetarians were considered "weak" and "having birth weights of dangerously low levels". This is sad news, but true. You see people, we need meat to build our strong hearts, and strong muscles. These "weak" babies didnt get a chance to choose if they wanted to be vegetarians, their bodies were forced only veggies by the unsensitive mothers, who, in a way, were already forcing their beliefs on their un-born child. This doesnt need to be the case. Or how about when your child is 16 years old, and is 4 foot 9, with bad bones and bad vision? what do you do when that child asks you , "mommy, why did you take the life away from me? why didnt you feed me the necessary nutrients that meat provides when I was in your womb?" These sad cases are all too often. Meat builds champions, and warriors. We need meat to fight our wars, and to be victorious. We need the feeling of bringing home the meat to our family. A feeling that cant be taken for granted. Come on people, cows are no better than mosquitos. If your a vegetarian, and bugs hit your windshield, and it doesnt bother you, why does it bother you when an old cow gets a bolt through the head? What is the difference? The folks that started our very existence, ate meat and loved it. If it were not for their great meat-eating abilities, we all would not be here. So I ask you to rally your support for our GREAT fishermen and hunters. these caring and bright people continue fine traditions that are responsible for your being here. That great Sportsmen, the breath of fresh air in a smoggy world, is the master of his domain, a true "king" if you will, of his senses and surroundings. Fishing and Hunting are the bright positives in a negative world. And there is nothing like enjoying a big barbeque before a good hunt or fishing outing. Ribs, chicken wings, drumsticks, meatballs, fish fillets(trout are best served whole), steaks, eggs, chicken breasts, veil, lamb cutlet dripping with grease, juicy, flavourful bratwurst, and best of all, a nice side of ham with some spicey mustard. these sorts of foods provide oneself with power, nutrition, and the ability to prosper in adverse enviornments. So, I ask you again, support the great fishermen and hunters. Give them a pat on the back when you see one , and tell him/her, "thanks, thanks for all youve done. Thank you for allowing me the gift of true life. I am forever thankful." Lets not have anymore weak babies and sad stories like the one above. Start supporting meat and our great sportspersons. For these individuals know the essence of life. If you take the time to really know a sportsperson, you might change your life, for the better.——Muskie

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : : As you can see, vegetarians kill just as much, if not MORE animal life : than hunters or meat eaters. : : This is a totally absurd statement. If all you say about animals being : killed in the fields is true… and the plant matter that is produced : there is fed to animals, which you in your arrogance kill and eat… : it takes up to 10 times as much plant matter to make a given quantity : of meat, so you are actually killing many times more animals : (_including_ your cow, pig, etc.) than a vegetarian. : As usual, you totally miss the concept that most of those animals : are fed on GRASS, which humans can’t eat. What makes you so sure that "most of those animals are fed on GRASS" ? What evidence do you have to support this? Now we await the long silence….. seetoh

In California one of our largest crops is rice and the biproduct of rice production consists of millions of mosquito fish and crawdads flushed out of the fields before harvest. Most of these die in the drainage ditches. Since most of the veggies eat rice just think how many animal lives they are responsible for. Harvesting other grains destroys bird nests and draining wetlands to grow these benign grains have destroyed the waterfowl flocks that use to blacken our skies with their flights (do you think that might have been another form of air polution ) I wish they would enjoy their veggies and leave more good wholesome meat for the rest of us dewayne

Response:

Hello there fellow food and nutrition enthusiasts! I would like to take this time to point out the double-standards by which vegetarians live by. I feel it is my duty to open the eyes of the hypocrites, once and for all. Alot of vegetarians eat that way because they dont believe in killing animals. Well, guess what? You vegetarians kill many animals by eating corn, beans, turnips and other such vegetables. When old macdonald is out in his field in planting or harvesting season, he is running over many mice, bird eggs, salamanders, and you name it with his plow and tractor. Ever seen how fast a baby rabbit is when it is two weeks old? Not very. It is also not very likely that a nest of young bunnys could survive a run in with a plow or tractor wheel. Grouse eggs, plus baby grouse dont stand a chance in the farmers WHEAT fields when its pickin’ time. Weasels, baby skunks, baby woodchucks, baby geese, baby oppusom, tucked in their little burrows into the soft dirt of the farmers field dont have a chance in planting or plowing season. Every time you take a bite of that corn, and think to yourself, " Im glad im a vegetarian, I dont kill animals like those stupid hunters do " , you contribute to at least a few senseless animal deaths. For every 200 acre farmers field, think of all the animals that are killed or mamed by the plow or harvester! Animals dont know any better to nest and live somewhere else. They see a nice field to nest up in, not knowing the horrors that lie ahead. Think of all the shrews, all the insects, and all the animal life that is destroyed when old macdonald plants and harvests. It is overwelming. Now, I have seen many farms and met many farmers, and I havent seen ONE farmer without a shotgun, or a gun that he hunts birds and animals with. I have seen many farms that use barb wire fences to keep out deer so they dont eat the vegetable products growing on the farm. If you look at some of those fences, you can see deer hair and skin stuck to the barbs, and sometimes deer will get stuck in those fences and ultimatley die a slow and horrible death, all twisted and mangled with broken necks. And, most farmers have 22’s they use to pot-shoot groundchucks and groundhogs, to keep them from eating the vegetable products they are growing. Not a pretty picture I am painting here is it veggies? rabbits are always a nusiance on farms, and hence, many farmers utilize cats and dogs to comb the fields, hoping these pets will keep the rabbit population down. A farmers field yeilding vegetable products is not a animal friendly place as you can see! But wait, theres more! Many farmers growing vegetable product also use pesticides. These pesticides either annoy or kill tens of thousands of different insect animal life. Not only do the pesticides used kill insect life, when the rains come down, these pestecides wash off into farm creeks, ponds, and lakes. Ever seen a river next to some large corn or lettuce farms? The fish life is pathetic at best. catfish with tumors, and where bass used to live, suckers take over because the runoff has killed the oxygen levels, making it almost impossible for fish to survive. So, even eating corn kills fish! Pesticide runoff is a common problem where farmers grow vegetable product. It causes the death of thousands of fish, and virtually destroys these freshwater ecosystems, killing turtles, ducks, kingfishers, herons, cranes, mink, otter, racoon, muskrat and so on. I think your getting the picture. How does that guilt-free salad taste now? and think of the cows, deer, fox, coyote,and other large game that drink form these pesticide creeks and lakes! All so you can have your guilt-free vegetarian life style! How about them veggies! As you can see, vegetarians kill just as much, if not MORE animal life than hunters or meat eaters. I have exposed the double standards and hypocrisy by which vegetarians live, and I hope they stop the high and mighty banter, and the self righteous behaviour they impose on everyone else who chooses to eat meat. All I ask in return is an apology from AR’s (animal rights people) to hunters and meat eaters. It is as simple as that.——Muskie TO MEAT OR NOT TO MEAT? ( REVISED EDITION 8/10/96) In a recent study, a 35 year old male, strict vegetarian of 12 years, went for a checkup at his doctors office. Thinking he was perfectly fit, the man proceeded out the office right after the checkup. The doctor chased him down the hall, and grabbed him aside then he said, " Im sorry Bob, you have 2 months to live". Bob had NOT eaten meat since he was 23, and the results were that his heart was dying due to lack of meat. The doctor said he needed meat at least occasionaly, to live. Unfortunately, the problem could not be corrected, it was too late for Bob. he died on 8/21/96. This sad episode COULD have been prevented. In another related study, Woman who are pregnant that were vegetarians averaged babies with a much lower weight than meat-eating pregnant mothers. 50% of the babies of strict vegetarians were considered "weak" and "having birth weights of dangerously low levels". This is sad news, but true. You see people, we need meat to build our strong hearts, and strong muscles. These "weak" babies didnt get a chance to choose if they wanted to be vegetarians, their bodies were forced only veggies by the unsensitive mothers, who, in a way, were already forcing their beliefs on their un-born child. This doesnt need to be the case. Or how about when your child is 16 years old, and is 4 foot 9, with bad bones and bad vision? what do you do when that child asks you , "mommy, why did you take the life away from me? why didnt you feed me the necessary nutrients that meat provides when I was in your womb?" These sad cases are all too often. Meat builds champions, and warriors. We need meat to fight our wars, and to be victorious. We need the feeling of bringing home the meat to our family. A feeling that cant be taken for granted. Come on people, cows are no better than mosquitos. If your a vegetarian, and bugs hit your windshield, and it doesnt bother you, why does it bother you when an old cow gets a bolt through the head? What is the difference? The folks that started our very existence, ate meat and loved it. If it were not for their great meat-eating abilities, we all would not be here. So I ask you to rally your support for our GREAT fishermen and hunters. these caring and bright people continue fine traditions that are responsible for your being here. That great Sportsmen, the breath of fresh air in a smoggy world, is the master of his domain, a true "king" if you will, of his senses and surroundings. Fishing and Hunting are the bright positives in a negative world. And there is nothing like enjoying a big barbeque before a good hunt or fishing outing. Ribs, chicken wings, drumsticks, meatballs, fish fillets(trout are best served whole), steaks, eggs, chicken breasts, veil, lamb cutlet dripping with grease, juicy, flavourful bratwurst, and best of all, a nice side of ham with some spicey mustard. these sorts of foods provide oneself with power, nutrition, and the ability to prosper in adverse enviornments. So, I ask you again, support the great fishermen and hunters. Give them a pat on the back when you see one , and tell him/her, "thanks, thanks for all youve done. Thank you for allowing me the gift of true life. I am forever thankful." Lets not have anymore weak babies and sad stories like the one above. Start supporting meat and our great sportspersons. For these individuals know the essence of life. If you take the time to really know a sportsperson, you might change your life, for the better.——Muskie

Response:

Is "dying from lack of meat" the technical definition of "Bob’s" condition; i don’t have a strong medical background. -curious

Response:

Hello there fellow food and nutrition enthusiasts! I would like to take this time to point out the double-standards by which vegetarians live by. [rest deleted]

Well… It *is* the truth, isn’t it ? TimW

Response:

Hello there fellow food and nutrition enthusiasts!

Hmm, using my wonderous (almost if I could get it to work properly) new bit of software at home, I can browse the newsgroups whilst also being able to see the newsgroups list. The concept of people on ‘talk.politic.tibet’, ‘rec.animals.wildlife’, ‘rec.backcountry’ etc being ‘fellow food and nutrition enthusiasts’ just doesn’t really ring true. I think the best thing is to assume it is a troll and <snip — David Arno

Response:

As you can see, vegetarians kill just as much, if not MORE animal life than hunters or meat eaters.

This is a totally absurd statement. If all you say about animals being killed in the fields is true… and the plant matter that is produced there is fed to animals, which you in your arrogance kill and eat… it takes up to 10 times as much plant matter to make a given quantity of meat, so you are actually killing many times more animals (_including_ your cow, pig, etc.) than a vegetarian. In addition, the animal you kill and eat has used that excess plant matter to create urine, fecal matter, methane, etc… which causes gross pollution in many parts of this country. I have exposed the double standards and hypocrisy by which vegetarians live, and I hope they stop the high and mighty banter, and the self righteous behaviour they impose on everyone else who chooses to eat meat. All I ask in return is an apology from AR’s (animal rights people) to hunters and meat eaters. It is as simple as that.——Muskie

If animals had a voice, they would demand an apology from YOU.

Response:

Is "dying from lack of meat" the technical definition of "Bob’s" condition; i don’t have a strong medical background. -curious

Sounds kind of funny to me, maybe that doctor should face a review board, sounds like s/he doesn’t know what s/he is talking about. If it were protein deficiency, that’s one thing, but "dying from lack of meat"….sounds like a diagnosis a 3-year old hamburger lover would make. Cynthia S. Smith http://www.sn.no/~csmith http://www.ifi.uio.no/~cynthias

Response:

= = As you can see, vegetarians kill just as much, if not MORE animal life = than hunters or meat eaters. = = This is a totally absurd statement. If all you say about animals being = killed in the fields is true… and the plant matter that is produced = there is fed to animals, which you in your arrogance kill and eat… = it takes up to 10 times as much plant matter to make a given quantity = of meat, so you are actually killing many times more animals = (_including_ your cow, pig, etc.) than a vegetarian. In addition, the = animal you kill and eat has used that excess plant matter to create = urine, fecal matter, methane, etc… which causes gross pollution in = many parts of this country. Hmmm…what if you raise the meat animals on permanent pasture (i.e. rarely if ever plowed)? —

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello there fellow food and nutrition enthusiasts! I would like to take this time to point out the double-standards by which vegetarians live by. I feel it is my duty to open the eyes of the hypocrites, once and for all. Alot of vegetarians eat that way because they dont believe in killing animals. Well, guess what? You vegetarians kill many animals by eating corn, beans, turnips and other such vegetables. When old macdonald is out in his field in planting or harvesting season, he is running over many mice, bird eggs, salamanders, and you name it with his plow and tractor. Ever seen how fast a baby rabbit is when it is two weeks old? Not very. It is also not very likely that a nest of young bunnys could survive a run in with a plow or tractor wheel. Grouse eggs, plus baby grouse dont stand a chance in the farmers WHEAT fields when its pickin’ time. Weasels, baby skunks, baby woodchucks, baby geese, baby oppusom, tucked in their little burrows into the soft dirt of the farmers field dont have a chance in planting or plowing season. Every time you take a bite of that corn, and think to yourself, " Im glad im a vegetarian, I dont kill animals like those stupid hunters do " , you contribute to at least a few senseless animal deaths. For every 200 acre farmers field, think of all the animals that are killed or mamed by the plow or harvester! ( the rest deleted)

200 acres? Not far from here they measure their fields by the section (640 acres)! And don’t forget all the animals that are no longer with us because of loss of habitat to the plow.

Response:

As you can see, vegetarians kill just as much, if not MORE animal life than hunters or meat eaters. This is a totally absurd statement. If all you say about animals being killed in the fields is true… and the plant matter that is produced there is fed to animals, which you in your arrogance kill and eat… it takes up to 10 times as much plant matter to make a given quantity of meat, so you are actually killing many times more animals (_including_ your cow, pig, etc.) than a vegetarian.

As usual, you totally miss the concept that most of those animals are fed on GRASS, which humans can’t eat. Rangeland contains a wide variety of animal life, none of which are killed to make room for the growth of human foodstuff (in this case, cattle). So while it may take 10 times as much grass to make a pound of meat, feeding the grass to the cattle certainly does no harm to the surrounding animals. In addition, the animal you kill and eat has used that excess plant matter to create urine, fecal matter, methane, etc… which causes gross pollution in many parts of this country.

More so than was caused by the vast herds of bison and pronghorns in the past? Jessica and the zoo: Kosh (dog), Liza (horse), Nikki, Pixel, and Voodoo (Demon Cats from Hell), Flick (snake) and oh yeah, Keith (husband), who puts up with us all. "Frogs are generally considered a pretty non-violent species. Unless, of course, you’re a fly". -Kermit

Response:

[brutally slaughtered text was here] As usual, you totally miss the concept that most of those animals are fed on GRASS, which humans can’t eat.

Except in brownies. And I think the original poster has that down just pat. 8^) TimW

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Arendt) writes: = = As you can see, vegetarians kill just as much, if not MORE animal life = than hunters or meat eaters. = = This is a totally absurd statement. If all you say about animals being = killed in the fields is true… and the plant matter that is produced = there is fed to animals, which you in your arrogance kill and eat… = it takes up to 10 times as much plant matter to make a given quantity = of meat, so you are actually killing many times more animals = (_including_ your cow, pig, etc.) than a vegetarian. In addition, the = animal you kill and eat has used that excess plant matter to create = urine, fecal matter, methane, etc… which causes gross pollution in = many parts of this country. Hmmm…what if you raise the meat animals on permanent pasture (i.e. rarely if ever plowed)?

As you can see "Muskies" tick off just as many, if not MORE rec.backcountry posters than hunters or meat eaters. It’s just amazing, but even when he’s being relatively polite, if not particularly well-reasoned, he sounds like he (she, it?) is on a non-stop rant. And Muskie was certainly never one to limit his posting to a single newsgroup at a time (I’ve deleted about 37 zillion groups in the header so I won’t be accused of spamming) Welcome back, Muskie … I guess!! — Cheers, Paul Weiss Backwater Trails: http://www.netaccess.on.ca/~cpweiss/BWT/BWT.html Personal Home Page: http://www.netaccess.on.ca/~cpweiss/ Quote:"A symposium on time-travel will be held two weeks ago" "Does anal retentive have a hyphen?"

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello there fellow food and nutrition enthusiasts! I would like to take this time to point out the double-standards by which vegetarians live by. I feel it is my duty to open the eyes text deleted hare krishna, actually i agree with a lot of this post. IF YOU ARE NOT SELF-SUFFICIENT YOU ARE NOT A VEGETARIAN. that’s why i’m learning everything i can about self-sufficiency and sustainable, cruelty-free, organic agriculture. but i must say that the below text is a load of garbage. i’m a hare krishna devotee (please refrain from the cult jokes). i live on a krishna farm community and teach at our elementary school. all the children here have been strict vegetarians since birth. visitors are always commenting on how radiantly healthy they look. some of the older kids who go to public high school are star athletes of every sport. none have EVER eaten meat. bhaktin casey TO MEAT OR NOT TO MEAT? ( REVISED EDITION 8/10/96) In a recent study, a 35 year old male, strict vegetarian of 12 years, went for a checkup at his doctors office. Thinking he was perfectly fit, the man proceeded out the office right after the checkup. The doctor chased him down the hall, and grabbed him aside then he said, " Im sorry Bob, you have 2 months to live". Bob had NOT eaten meat since he was 23, and the results were that his heart was dying due to lack of meat. The doctor said he needed meat at least occasionaly, to live. Unfortunately, the problem could not be corrected, it was too late for Bob. he died on 8/21/96. This sad episode COULD have been prevented. In another related study, Woman who are pregnant that were vegetarians averaged babies with a much lower weight than meat-eating pregnant mothers. 50% of the babies of strict vegetarians were considered "weak" and "having birth weights of dangerously low levels". This is sad news, but true. You see people, we need meat to build our strong hearts, and strong muscles. These "weak" babies didnt get a chance to choose if they wanted to be vegetarians, their bodies were forced only veggies by the unsensitive mothers, who, in a way, were already forcing their beliefs on their un-born child. This doesnt need to be the case. Or how about when your child is 16 years old, and is 4 foot 9, with bad bones and bad vision? what do you do when that child asks you , "mommy, why did you take the life away from me? why didnt you feed me the necessary nutrients that meat provides when I was in your womb?" These sad cases are all too often. Meat builds champions, and warriors. We need meat to fight our wars, and to be victorious. We need the feeling of bringing home the meat to our family. A feeling that cant be taken for granted. Come on people, cows are no better than mosquitos. If your a vegetarian, and bugs hit your windshield, and it doesnt bother you, why does it bother you when an old cow gets a bolt through the head? What is the difference? The folks that started our very existence, ate meat and loved it. If it were not for their great meat-eating abilities, we all would not be here. So I ask you to rally your support for our GREAT fishermen and hunters. these caring and bright people continue fine traditions that are responsible for your being here. That great Sportsmen, the breath of fresh air in a smoggy world, is the master of his domain, a true "king" if you will, of his senses and surroundings. Fishing and Hunting are the bright positives in a negative world. And there is nothing like enjoying a big barbeque before a good hunt or fishing outing. Ribs, chicken wings, drumsticks, meatballs, fish fillets(trout are best served whole), steaks, eggs, chicken breasts, veil, lamb cutlet dripping with grease, juicy, flavourful bratwurst, and best of all, a nice side of ham with some spicey mustard. these sorts of foods provide oneself with power, nutrition, and the ability to prosper in adverse enviornments. So, I ask you again, support the great fishermen and hunters. Give them a pat on the back when you see one , and tell him/her, "thanks, thanks for all youve done. Thank you for allowing me the gift of true life. I am forever thankful." Lets not have anymore weak babies and sad stories like the one above. Start supporting meat and our great sportspersons. For these individuals know the essence of life. If you take the time to really know a sportsperson, you might change your life, for the better.——Muskie

—— Hmmmmmmmmm?—— Nice disertation but you’re boy Bob is the exception, not the rule. Americans have TOO MUCH MEAT in their diet and their Cholesterol Levels and Fat levels are beyond reason. FAT INTAKE should not exceed 5% of the total calories and Cholesterol should be as close to zero as possible. George Gehrke

Response:

[snip] BACK UP HERE and consider this. "ALL life comes from the sun". You figure out for yourself the evidence that plant material sustains flesh. At least, I hope you do not lack ‘logic’. George Gehrke/Mr. Gink Now then, can we all start talking about fly fishing please?

I hate to be a nit picking buttinsky but using words like "all" and "always" in a statement usually gets you in trouble. This is no exception. There have relatively recently been discovered ecosystems that are completely independent of the sun’s energy. I’m referring to deep sea sulfur vents which exist in total darkness and sulfur reducing bacteria are the primary producers. Regarding cattle etc. being fed grass. If the doubter ( I’ve lost track of who’s who on this thread) would like to come to Kansas, I’ll show them the largest remaining tract of tallgrass prairie ( and some of the most beautiful scenery in the world ) with all kinds of cattle happily munching the grass and making steak. — Brent L. Brock Kansas State University Dept. Agronomy, Range Science

Response:

BACK UP HERE and consider this. "ALL life comes from the sun". You figure out for yourself the evidence that plant material sustains flesh. At least, I hope you do not lack ‘logic’. George Gehrke/Mr. Gink Now then, can we all start talking about fly fishing please?

Response:

Don’t forget all the pollution created when shipping those yummy veggies cross country. todd — "I envy not him that eats better meat than I do, nor him that is richer or wears better clothes than I do. I envy nobody but him, and him only, that catches more fish than I do." Izaak Walton

Response:

: As usual, you totally miss the concept that most of those animals : are fed on GRASS, which humans can’t eat. Rangeland contains a wide : variety of animal life, none of which are killed to make room for : the growth of human foodstuff (in this case, cattle). So while it : may take 10 times as much grass to make a pound of meat, feeding : the grass to the cattle certainly does no harm to the surrounding : animals. You are of course referring to buffaloes and wolves when you talk about animals not being killed to make room for cattle. Then, there are the slash and burn tactics of Brazilian ranchers. No animals being killed there, eh. And let us not forget polluted water sources because of animal waste. Since we are discussing animals, I won’t even go into how many people die early because of the garbage that is passed off on them as meat. -Tom

Response:

: : As you can see, vegetarians kill just as much, if not MORE animal life : than hunters or meat eaters. : : This is a totally absurd statement. If all you say about animals being : killed in the fields is true… and the plant matter that is produced : there is fed to animals, which you in your arrogance kill and eat… : it takes up to 10 times as much plant matter to make a given quantity : of meat, so you are actually killing many times more animals : (_including_ your cow, pig, etc.) than a vegetarian. : As usual, you totally miss the concept that most of those animals : are fed on GRASS, which humans can’t eat. What makes you so sure that "most of those animals are fed on GRASS" ? What evidence do you have to support this? Now we await the long silence….. seetoh

Response:

200 acres? Not far from here they measure their fields by the section (640 acres)! And don’t forget all the animals that are no longer with us because of loss of habitat to the plow.

Not to mention all the corn and wheat that died so that we could live. Don’t discount them; they’re a sight more alive than rocks and minerals, after all. Just think; if redwood trees were a culinary treat, them environmentalists and vegetarians would have a whole new battle to fight. Not that I distance myself from those particular causes; I’m simply posing as the polemic. Cheers, Jen

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (Doug Arendt) writes: = = As you can see, vegetarians kill just as much, if not MORE animal life = than hunters or meat eaters. = = This is a totally absurd statement. If all you say about animals being = killed in the fields is true… and the plant matter that is produced = there is fed to animals, which you in your arrogance kill and eat… = it takes up to 10 times as much plant matter to make a given quantity = of meat, so you are actually killing many times more animals = (_including_ your cow, pig, etc.) than a vegetarian. In addition, the = animal you kill and eat has used that excess plant matter to create = urine, fecal matter, methane, etc… which causes gross pollution in = many parts of this country. Hmmm…what if you raise the meat animals on permanent pasture (i.e. rarely if ever plowed)? And the previous poster is ignoring that all those ‘pollutants’, urine, fecal matter, etc. are actually the main ingredients in organic fertilizer. Guess they don’t eat organic produce, huh….. Besides, the WORST pollutant of our water ways is run-off from urban and suburban lawns. Sue — ======= Mike Mayer (414) 751-3557 Work: Technology Group, Inc. Neenah, WI Home:

In the west a real factor is the amount of water it takes to grow a pound of steak. Alfalfa and hay need LOTS of water. It is tremendously inefficient to grow our protein on the hoof.

Response:

<Hundreds of lines of crap deleted Excellent! Muskie, meet Dr Jai. Dr Jai, meet Muskie. Why don’t the two of you bugger off to alt.fan.jai-maharaj and have a cosy chat? — I was gratified to be able to answer promptly, and I did. I said I didn’t know. Mark Twain.

Response:

Author: admin on
Category: Fly Fishing
Tags: Fly Fishing

Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing Rod » Help for Fenwick fly rods..

Help for Fenwick fly rods..

Question:

Hi, a friend of mine be in Bozeman, Montana next August and he’d like to buy a Fenwick fly rod. Can anyone let me know the nearest delear??? Thanks in advance for your help. Good Fishing, Paolo

Response:

You can buy direct from fenwick..1800642 7637 or fax 714 891 9610. call em they’ll send you a catalog

Response:

Hi, a friend of mine be in Bozeman, Montana next August and he’d like to buy a Fenwick fly rod. Can anyone let me know the nearest delear??? Thanks in advance for your help. Good Fishing, Paolo

You might try Fenwick directly and perhaps they can direct you to likely sources. Unfortunately, they’re not on-line on the Web yet. Fenwick 5242 Argosy Ave. Huntington Beach, CA 92649 Phone: 714-897-1066 Fax: 714-891-9610 Also, check my page at http://www.xnet.com/~rxffish and go to "Fly Fishing Dealers". Several Montana dealers are listed and I am sure they could help also. Best Regards. Trent Roberson Rx F Fish – - – For Your Good Health, Fly Fish http://www.xnet.com/~rxffish

Response:

Author: admin on
Category: Fly Fishing Rod
Tags: Fly Fishing Rod

Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing Tying » Fly patterns for PIKE

Fly patterns for PIKE

Question:

Does anyone have any fly patterns for Pike ? Thanks Rod

Response:

Hi, I use a large wooly bugger 1/0 or 2/0 with an extra long tail. Also the Double Bunny is great for many species of fish including pike. The Double Bunny is available from Dan Bailey’s 96 catalog. They are on page number 14 and cost $2.95 each plus S&H. You can get a catalog or order by calling 800-356-4052. Good Tying & Tight Lines Al _______ BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT

Response:

Does anyone have any fly patterns for Pike ? Thanks Rod

I’m just about to try some bass poppers on northern pike in Scotland, so I’ll let you know! Andrew

Response:

I’ve only fished for Pike once, in my early fly fishing/tying days. I was sent to Cold Lake, Alberta to do some work at the Air Force base. It was mid summer and I was going to be there for about two weeks. I’d heard the Pike were big and mean in that lake. (And they were, I saw some gawd awful big ones laying on the bottom of the lake while I was canoeing!) I asked for pattern recommendations from one of the local fly shop owners. He said ty something big and "boppy" out of deer hair. Cast it out on the water, slam it down, no grace, no glory and then strip it back, across the water in short burst. I tied up some deer hair "balls", for lack of a better description, with a couple of black hackle tips for legs/tails (sizes 2 to 2/0). I did exactly as he suggested, slapped ‘em down on the water and stipped them in. What blast! I’ve never had so much fun fishing on the surface! I had one pike take three consecutive hair-raising slashes at my fly. After each slash, I struck so hard that the line went back over my head. I just pull it forward, and put it right back down where he had hit. The third time, he got it! Since then, I’ve become a little more refined in my tying and fishing techniques. But I haven’t had the chance to fish for pike again. If you want to fish the surface, bass bugs would probably work well, although you might choose a color pattern that is more like something they would see in the local area. I dont know if some of the bright colors will work, I have no experience with these. Pike will eat almost anything that moves and they can get their mouth around: frogs, snakes, ducklings, you name it. I tried to make as much commotion on the water as I could. It seemed to work. Good luck, Dave.

Response:

I have never tried to catch pike on the fly BUT on one lake in Lincolnshire I lost a number of lures to pike before I realised the problem. They were basic white marabou with fluorescent green tails and/or overwings and some were leaded at the head.

Response:

I’ve fished quite a lot for pike with flies, and 90% of the time, I use a Bunny Bug, tied on a 3/0 hook with a tail of rabbit strip and a few strands of krystal flash, a body of palmered rabbit strip (fuzzies out,) and a head of either bead-chain eyes or lacquered with a painted-on eye. Black and white are the best, and I sometimes mix them together for a good searching pattern. If you want to add a little, tie in some marabou right behind the head to give it an attractor. Other flies to use are Decievers, any tarpon fly, dahlberg divers, and poppers. Keep in mind, that some of these are destroyed by just one fish.

Response:

Author: admin on
Category: Fly Fishing Tying
Tags: Fly Fishing Tying

Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing Flies » Tie your own?

Tie your own?

Question:

However, there are tons and tons of pre-tied flies sold. I see folks buying them all the time. I suspect that a possibly relevant follow-up question is to ask what % of the flies that you use did you tie and what % did you buy. I know that there are lots of folks that buy lots of flies. However, I do not.

I – and again, everyone I fish with – tie *all* of my/their own flies, whether fresh water or salt water, dry fly/emerger/nymph/popper/diver/whatever… But then, I’ve been a dyed-in-the-wool flyfisher for 29 years, and everyone I fish with has been flyfishing for 15 to 50 years… I agree that all those flies you see binned up in the shops *must* get sold to someone, but them’s ain’t us ;^) /dave <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< < Digital Equipment Corp. Alpha Server Engineering < < "Read this and nobody gets hurt" < <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Response:

: Anybody know the percentage of fly fisherman who tie their own flies? : I’d be interested to hear your comments on the percentage. I’d be even : interested in the percentage of your fishing buddies who tie their own. : Thanks, Craig, all the fly fishers I know tie a percentage off their flies. Of these only one is a 100% "my fly only type" the rest will swap buy tie as the need arises. Some guys refuse to tie dries, other won’t tie (or fish in public nymphs. Thats about 8 fellas that spring to mind. hooroo steve ps Perhaps an ancilliary question : "How many only fish with their self tied flies 100%?"

Response:

Craig, Of the five people (4 males & 1 female) that I fish with on a regular basis, three of us tie our own . Steve

Response:

Most of the people I fish with tie their own and then borrow some flies when an individual seems to have the "hot pattern" for the day. I would guess that most of the flies fished in my area are tied by foreign teenage girls however. One company is reported to sell 700,000 dozen this year. That is a lot of flies and represents only the largest importer.

Response:

Anybody know the percentage of fly fisherman who tie their own flies?
I’d be interested to hear your comments on the percentage. I’d be even interested in the percentage of your fishing buddies who tie their own.
Thanks,
Craig,
Of the five people (4 males & 1 female) that I fish with on a regular basis, three of us tie our own .
Steve

Out of 5 other fly fishing buddies (6 including myself) I am the only one who ties flies. Darryl Hayashida

Response:

: : I know that there are lots of folks that buy lots of flies. However, : I do not. : I – and again, everyone I fish with – tie *all* of my/their own flies, whether I buy a fly or two every now and then. I may see a particularly well-tied one that I’ll keep as a "model", or I’ll get something recommended for local conditions. But most of the flies I buy are for "models". — Laboratory for Applied Logic Dept. of Computer Science University of Idaho www: http://www.cs.uidaho.edu/~foster

Response:

I’m a member of a small fishing club in Sweden with approx. 250 members All of them are flytiers. We have yearly studying circles in fly tying for all ages so we can keep up the craftmanship of fly tying. So… all my flyfishing friends are tying there own. Best flytying regards Lars Elfner

Response:

I have only been ff for three years now but I can say that in that time I have only bought maybe 15 flies, total. A month after I started fishing I taught myself to tie. Since then the only time I buy flies is when I need info on a hatch from a local sporting shop ( I have only done this twice). I tie flys for everyone that I go with which is about three different people. On the water, I think most of the weekend hobbiests buy flies, while the Flyfishermen tie them. Eg. on a stocked river that I frequent, all the ff people I talk to buy their flies, while on Hat creek, just the thought of a store bought fly would give you a bad look. As a percentage I would say that more are bought, just by the fact that there are more overpopulated rivers than there are ff rivers.

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The way I do it is. I tie the flies that are known to catch fish in this area. I buy one or two of few patterns that work well in the surrounding areas just in case I get to go out of town.

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Half my ff-ing friends tie their own, the other half buy them from me! I bought my flies the first time I set out, then started tying very soon after. That first batch was the only ones I ever bought. My guess is that most the folks that buy commercially ties flies probably do lots of other types of fishing too, and are not completely engrossed in fly fishing. I can’t see laying out all the money that I see some people do buying flys. Yea, I know how much I laid out on my tying equipment and supplies, but that’s different! :-) Most of that stuff was paid for by selling the stuff I tied. A sunny day, a box of midges, and a wandering stream… Man, this MUST be heaven! < Steve Kulpa <<

Response:

Perhaps an ancilliary question : "How many only fish with their self tied flies 100%?"

Pretty much everyone I fish with fits this category. Most of us fish with rods we built ourselves too. Cost is a big factor, but I think it’s more of a natural curiosity we have, as most of us tie a box of standards like clousers, then set to tying more "experimental" patterns to imitate mackerel, pogies, eels, etc. Sometimes the winter in Maine seems so long that building a new rod or tying a mess of flies is the only way to stay sane. Well that and writing about yuppies on the net…. :-

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Perhaps an ancilliary question : "How many only fish with their self tied flies 100%?"

That’s me. I’ve never caught a trout on a fly that I didn’t tie. Why bother paying $2.00-$3.00 for a fly when you can tie your own for much less and can make a much better looking fly in most cases. Economics are a main issue here. I am in college and I couldn’t afford to have a well stocked fly box if I didn’t tie the flys myself. Also the satisfaction that comes from tying your own fly and then catching a trout with it is incredible. Jake

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2 out of 5 tie. jamie

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I fish with five guys on a regular basis. Out of these five, four of them tie their own flies. Only two of us tie flies for the situations we encounter. I’m currently tying salmon fly patterns for my trips to the Deschutes River. last Friday night we slaughtered ‘em on size 4 red patterns! Bill Ruddick

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<snip : However, there are tons and tons of pre-tied flies sold. I see folks buying : them all the time. I suspect that a possibly relevant follow-up question : is to ask what % of the flies that you use did you tie and what % did you : buy. : I know that there are lots of folks that buy lots of flies. However, : I do not. A primary reason for buying flies is to get a quick selection of local favourites. New water? – locate a local shop, shoot the bull with the owner, get some local tips, buy a few flies - both the get a head start on matching local conditions and as a way of "thanking" him for his advice. I tie almost all of my flies, but I haven’t got to the point where I take my tying supplies with me on a trip (my van won’t pull two trailers ) — 3798 Woodland Drive voice: (604) 368-9315 Trail, BC data: (604) 368-9341

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I tie most of my own, the exception being those special hatches and unforseen occasions. Then, I’ll buy one or two at a time. My four friends are the same way. I have to add that I guess the people on this list would not be a representative sample of the flyfishing world. –sean

Response:

For what it’s worth, I think they’re two seperate activities. Its just nice that they happen to be related. As Dave mentioned, most of the people I fish with tie their own flys. I buy some (I cant tie Wulffs worth a damn) and I occasionally I find some that are different. By-the-way: I saw a box full of excellent flys this past week They were tied by a shop in New Hartford Conn. (Classic and Custom Fly Shop – I think) Very nice examples of Conn hendricksons, emergers and some of the old standards tied ‘catskill’ style. I dont think the fish care all that much, but these were really first rate.

Response:

i tie my own. i bought four or five when i got into this insanity, figured i might as well wade into the deep water, bought a vise, a bobbin, and a small fortune in supplies and have been saving the big bucks ever since. everytime i see a new pattern, i buy a hundred dollars worth of chicken necks and other assorted parts, (not to mention artificial stuff that sells for who knows what an ounce. as soon as the ups man leave, i head to my fly room and tie five of ‘em. hmmm, that would be twenty bucks per. don’t tell my wife, i just hit her up for a hoffman #2 cream for father’s day!. seriously, i wouldn’t buy a fly now. i can’t fish worth a damn, but my flies are much better than most of the ones you see in the bins.

Response:

Just thought I’d delurk for a moment and post this in response to this continuing thread. I enjoy fly-fishing and fly-tying. Tying my own flies is an extension of fly-fishing and provides a great way for me to relax from my day job. Since I primarily fish for trout and freshwater fish, I try to tie flies to match the hatches on the VA streams. Though I don’t fly-fish for salmon often, I tie full-dress salmon flies. Hunting down materials over the past ten years has added greatly to the enjoyment of tying these flies. I’ll offer this opinion of mass-produced flies. Often they are produced only for the "fly-fisher," not for the fish. Though I try to tie flies which match the naturals, the flies in the shops often have too much hackle or do not balance correctly on the water. Also, many of these flies are not produced in the US, Canada, or the UK. (I’m saying this because these are my fishing areas.) The flies just aren’t tied correctly and they do not stand up to the wear and tear of the fish. I also think that regional flies outperform mass-produced ones. For example, a Grey Ghost streamer by a well-known company. The traditional Steven’s dressing is not followed and the flies are sloppily constructed. A friend and I were fishing some of the Appalachian lakes and his flies were not holding up for more than one or two strikes. In short, I’d rather tie my own flies for a lot of reasons. I also like tying for my fishing buddies and helping them and others with flies. It greatly enriches my fishing experience. DISCLAIMER: The opinions expressed herein are not those of my employer. Loral Federal Systems (301) 470-1957

Response:

Anybody know the percentage of fly fisherman who tie their own flies? I’d be interested to hear your comments on the percentage. I’d be even interested in the percentage of your fishing buddies who tie their own. Thanks, I can’t think of *any* of my flyfishing buddies that *don’t* tie their own.

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Can’t give you an accurate percentage, but I would be willing to bet anyone who has been fly fishing for more than a year or so probably has started tying their own. All fly fishermen I know do their own tying (and THAT numbers around 25) Greg

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I can’t think of *any* of my flyfishing buddies that *don’t* tie their own. (Hey Harlan, do *you* know anyone that doesn’t tie their own?) /dave <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< < Digital Equipment Corp. Alpha Server Engineering < < "Read this and nobody gets hurt" < <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Response:

Author: admin on
Category: Fly Fishing Flies
Tags: Fly Fishing Flies

Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing Flies » Fly fishing in Michigan

Fly fishing in Michigan

Question:

There are a lot of public access sites on the Au Sable, including all 3 branches (Mainstream, North Branch, and South Branch). In addition to state property, Trout Unlimited has two pieces of donated property in the "flies only" stretch. One is north of Stephan’s Bridge, on the north side of the rive, called Guides’ Rest. The other is further west and just north of Wakeley Bridge (also on the north side) near the Thunderbird Club. The single best source of information on the AuSable comes from the river guide that is produced for the river by the Challenge Chapter of Trout Unlimited. In addition to maps, it includes an emergence chart for the major fly hatches. Your Email address indicates you are on the UM campus, as I am. You can buy one of these guides at MacGregor’s (on Main Street), or I will be happy to let you look at mine if they’re out. Mike Traugott – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Can anyone supply me with a few public access sites on the AuSable River System? Any proven patterns are more than welcome.

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there is a great book called "12 Classic Trout Streams of Michigan" at Border’s in Ann Arbor and at Macgregor’s, that lists access sites to the Au Sable and other streams that is really good information.

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I usually fish from Keystone Landing to Stephan Bridge on the main stream. I haven’t had the chance to fish the south branch yet, but i think i will concentrate on it this summer. Most of it is "match the hatch" water. It is also a very picturesque stream, with sweeping cedars in the water providing excellent cover. P.S. I don’t consider myself an expert on this stream, but I am just telling you what I know. There is a "hatch hotline" you can call to see what the latest conditions are. It’s updated everyday one the weather starts warming up, but currently it just contains general winter conditions. the number is (517) 348-7108. very helpful.

Response:

Author: admin on
Category: Fly Fishing Flies
Tags: Fly Fishing Flies

Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » River Fly Fishing » snagging vs. catching salmon (MI)

snagging vs. catching salmon (MI)

Question:

The Skamania come into the creeks in Mich City IN in July and stay there until spawning in April. They certainly do feed, quite extensively, for 9 months. They will hit waxworms, marshmellows, spawn, worms, and power bait right up to actually spawning. They are much less likely to strike at your lure. On an ending cord I would like to share that I have many times coaxed a stuborn salmon to strike my fly and I don’t accept the notion that these fish need to be snaged even 50 % of the time.

Quite true. Chinooks will hit nightcrawlers (feeding) and black flies (who knows) quite nicely in the streams. Cohos will hit anything that flashes. I have even seen them swallow other peoples LARGE weighted snag hooks.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve had different experiences while trying to catch salmon in Michigan. I went to the Platte river a few weeks ago. The special regulations there specify that you can only use a single unweighed hook. So in the Platte I used spawn sacks which I drifted right in front of the spanwning salmon. My dad and I spent hours doing this and the Salmon did not even give us the time of day. If I irritated them too much they would move out of their beds and eventually return latter. In this situation I think that it is almost impossible to catch a Salmon. My theory is that in clear water and when the Salmon are allready in their beds they will not strike. In these situations it seems that they dont strike because they can see you and are warry and because they can see your line and hook to clearly. But I did see other people leave with Salmon. Where they snagging or do they just know something that I dont? Could it be that they where technically hooking them in the mouth but that this resulted from being able to carefully place the hook in the fishes mouth and then snag? If these fish can be caught can somebody tell me how?

When the water is low on MN steelhead streams, I have had the same observation. What worked for me was to try a blaze orange , bright yellow, hot pink, or chartreuse modified wooly worm pattern. The modification was to replace the soft hackle around the body with marabou tufts of the above mentioned colors. The idea is to aggravate them. Sometimes fly fishing is the only way to go. I am not sure whether this will work on salmon. -galen .sigs are for lousy typists. -bill kennedy

Response:

[...] | Where they snagging or do they just know | something that I dont? Could it be that they where technically hooking them | in the mouth but that this resulted from being able to carefully place the | hook in the fishes mouth and then snag? If these fish can be caught can | somebody tell me how? [...] This reminds me of something that happened to me fishing with my father in Florida. I was casting a Johnson’s weedless spoon along the edge of a marsh in lake Monroe. I spotted a long fish holding in a pocket and started casting to it. My father said it was a Gar, and that it wouldn’t hit my lure and wouldn’t be worth catching anyway. (Fish = food mentality.) This didn’t seem reasonable since a Gar is obviously designed for eating other fish, which my spoon was imitating. So to prove him wrong, I continued to cast to the fish, drawing my lure right through his cone of vision again and again. Nothing. Finally, I started putting the lure right on top of the fish. Nothing. It became amusing, because the fish seemed completely unruffled by the lure banging down right over his head. Then, all of a sudden, he was on. After a very un- inspired struggle, I landed the fish. My lure had dropped across his elongated mouth and wrapped several times around his jaws; he was lassoed! Had a good laugh and turned him loose. — Mark Myers 703 758 2725

Response:

I have experience fishing for salmon and steelhead in Oregon and Alaskan waters. First of all, I don’t think there is a general consesus in the scientific community that mature steelhead activily feed in fresh water. Although I am well aware that food is often found in the stomach of these fish, still most fisheries experts characterize this behavior as abnormal. I fully agree with the statement that salmon and steelhead strike lures out of either agression or some other instinct. As for your situation where salmon are actually spawning, attempting to catch them here is very poor sportsmanship. After such a long journey, traveling sometimes hundreds of miles past both fishing nets and hooks, these fish deserve to be left alone to complete there life cycle. Its just n ot practical to fish over spawning fish either. A) They have no food value B) They are much less likely to strike at your lure. On an ending cord I would like to share that I have many times coaxed a stuborn salmon to strike my fly and I don’t accept the notion that these fish need to be snaged even 50 % of the time. Derek Snelling, Eugene, Oregon

Response:

I’ve had different experiences while trying to catch salmon in Michigan. I went to the Platte river a few weeks ago. The special regulations there specify that you can only use a single unweighed hook. So in the Platte I used spawn sacks which I drifted right in front of the spanwning salmon. My dad and I spent hours doing this and the Salmon did not even give us the time of day. If I irritated them too much they would move out of their beds and eventually return latter. In this situation I think that it is almost impossible to catch a Salmon. My theory is that in clear water and when the Salmon are allready in their beds they will not strike. In these situations it seems that they dont strike because they can see you and are warry and because they can see your line and hook to clearly. But I did see other people leave with Salmon. Where they snagging or do they just know something that I dont? Could it be that they where technically hooking them in the mouth but that this resulted from being able to carefully place the hook in the fishes mouth and then snag? If these fish can be caught can somebody tell me how? Ive also fished for Salmon in waters that are not as clear such as the Pere Marquete and the Grand River (again these rivers are in Michigan). Here I have been able to catch Salmon using both plugs and spawn sacks. Using a plug I have definitely felt when they hit. Using spawn it is much more difficult to detect but I have been able to hook Salmon and Steelhead in the mouth. Whether I happen to hook them in the mouth or they actually hit I still cant exactly tell. Anyway my theory is that they will hit lures and that they cannot see the line and hook as clearly in murky water so it is more likely that they will bite. Finally, I have been able to hook Steelhead in clear water when I run my spawn right through some turbulent water that goes into a hole. So, an example would be where there is a small water fall that goes into a hole. It seems that in these cases the presentation was much more natural and the Steelhead reacted more instinctively. I’ll end with a short success story. I went out on the GRand River with a small boat and we where trailing hot and tots. This was my first time trying this method and I was moving my line a little bit in the current since we were not moving the boat. We had only been there about 20 minutes when this 15 pound 32 inch chinook Salmon hit my lure. It gave me such an adrenaline rush that I could hardly stand up. I fought that fish for about 15 minutes before my friend netted it. WE had some great Salmon that night and I slept like a baby. I would appreciate any advice and comments. This is only my second season fishing Salmon and I can use all the help I can get. Thanks for your advise and comments. "Will there be fishing in Heaven?" "Sure, we’ll just use velcro patches instead of hooks."

Response:

I went to the Platte river a few weeks ago. The special regulations there specify that you can only use a single unweighed hook. So in the Platte I used spawn sacks which I drifted right in front of the spanwning salmon. (much deleted, no fish caught)

First, steelhead do actively feed and strike lures when on a spawning run, salmon, unfortunately, do not. From every steelhead I caught (in rivers), I had to remove hooks from INSIDE the mouth, whereas with salmon, the hooks are on the OUTSIDE of the mouth or foul hooked elsewhere on the body. I too was on the Platte (Michigan) a few weeks ago. I sat for 11 hours on a road culvert with 2 holes on either side of the culvert and caught no fish. I saw a total of 5-8 salmon in the holes which would move from hole to hole as my salmon egg moved in front of them. Absolutely no bites. In contrast, 2 years ago, on the Platte, in the same spot using the same technique, I hooked at least 10 salmon. The difference?? Two years ago I hit a period of time in which there were at least 100 fish near the area in which I was fishing. There were so many fish, that they could not get out of the way of the hook. Furthermore, with this many fish swimming with their mouths opened, the line gets caught in the mouth (occasionally) and they react and you feel a strike. Actually, the fish hook themselves about the mouth area, but not in the mouth. In talking with a local who had obviously caught his share of fish, he detailed to me how he would cast slightly upstream from the side of the stream, and hook (foul hook) the fish. They always are foul-hooked (as were the 10 I ’caught’ 2 years ago). Some in the tail, some in the dorsal fin etc. In the 60’s when salmon were first introduced, Manistee lake (and many similar eco-systems in Michigan) was a holding area for Salmon prior to their being stripped for eggs at the weir. One could literally walk across the water on boats since there were so many fishermen. Most people fished with a line out on the bottom with a nightcrawler, eggs or spawn. There were so many fish, that again, they would run into the line and get hooked about their mouth area. You would actually feel the fish run into the line, and by holding the rod, could definitely feel 3-4 seconds later when the fish reached the hook (which felt like a strike). Actually, if they hit the bait initially, you wouldn’t have had the delay between feeling the bite as the fish ran away from your location. In other Michigan rivers, I have over the years observed the same phenomena. The correlation seems to be with numbers of Salmon in the rivers. The greater the number in the river (and I’m talking many hundreds) then people catch fish. With only few fish in the river, no catches. I had done my MS thesis on salmon in the early 70’s, and, the livers of spawning salmon are basically cirrhotic in nature, and their GI tract is as thin as a pencil (These changes are indications of a non-functioning GI tract). In contrast, when I examined steelhead trout, their livers are normal color, and the GI tract appears functional, not pencil thin. I just returned from the Upper Peninsula (MI) and I legally foul-hooked 5 salmon, (catching 2) and examined the livers and GI system: same results. Atrophied looking liver and GI tract.

Response:

Author: admin on
Category: River Fly Fishing
Tags: River Fly Fishing

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