Question:

My only experiece with spawners has involved brookies. I have , for many years, observed them spawning. Many fall fishing trips have turned into fish watching expeditions. One thing I have noriced, is that anything that drifts into the redd will be challenged, usually by the Alpha male. Many times the offending object is picked up and spit out by the fish. When the Alpha male leaves the redd, a bunch of smaller males will rush in and attempt to fertilize the eggs, only to be violently chased out when the big guy returns. Other fish on the redd will also go after foriegn objects if the Alpha male doesn’t respond. Brookies will occassionally "take a break" from the redd, and feed for a while in the adjacent area. This "break" can last from a few minutes to over an hour. Brookies do not always form redds from scratch, but will utilize a gravel area that is kept clean by streamflow. Don’t know if this adds anything to the discussion, but thought I’d throw it in. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

Response:

Fishing on the redds, eh? There’s a lady over in rec.outdoors.fishing.saltwater looking for info on Christmas Island. Isn’t that what they call a non sequitur?

Not if the little old lady is Marge Shott. FiddleAway

Response:

My only experiece with spawners has involved brookies. I have , for many years, observed them spawning. Many fall fishing trips have turned into fish watching expeditions. One thing I have noriced, is that anything that drifts into the redd will be challenged, usually by the Alpha male. Many times the offending object is picked up and spit out by the fish. When the Alpha male leaves the redd, a bunch of smaller males will rush in and attempt to fertilize the eggs, only to be violently chased out when the big guy returns. Other fish on the redd will also go after foriegn objects if the Alpha male doesn’t respond.

Geez. All this time I thought I was the only unethical SOB on ROFF who fished on redds.

Response:

One thing I have noriced, is that anything that drifts into the redd will be challenged, usually by the Alpha male. Many times the offending object is picked up and spit out by the fish. Other fish on the redd will also go after foriegn objects if the Alpha male doesn’t respond.

The same is very true of salmon apparently and as a result, that is exactly the behavior the guide was targeting with the ultra-light, ultra-small natural approach.  The trick is to learn the feel of the fly being sucked in and responding with a very quick, but relatively light hook set (the guide referred to it as a "pre-set"), before the fish spits it out again.  Once you get that feel dialed it is amazingly repetitive.  We were disproportionately successful to those fishing nearby for two days by nearly 4 or 5 to one.  That seemed to hold true for others we encountered in the fly shops and around town, as well.  What others were describing as slow days on the river were some of the most successful days of fishing in my life. I am now a firm convert to this method, where applicable. TL Zippy

Response:

Geez. All this time I thought I was the only unethical SOB on ROFF who fished on redds.

Never said I fished ‘em…only observed.{:-) Actually, I used to fish redds, but gave it up after It finally dawned on me that the fish would take just about anything, and were damn near impossible to spook. They’d scatter, but be back on the redd within minutes. Haven’t been able to spy on the little buggers this fall as the prime viewing area has been placed off limits due to the threat of terrorist activity. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The only thing I can think of was that it drifted into her   redd. Any other  ideas? I’ve been trying to find time to put together a trip report on the Salmon River for a month now, but it involved a local guide teaching me a new way (new to me, at least) of targeting salmon.  It centered around small…very small…seemingly improbably small….naturals on frightfully light tippets.  It was outstandingly successful…so much so, that under similar circumstances, I would be hard pressed not to use his method as the "go to" approach. Anyhow, his theory centered around not only a "housekeeping" attitude, but a general territorial defense response, especially for competing males. Got to find a few minutes to cobble that TR together for contribution…. TL, Zippy

Id be very interested to hear this approach as  I fish  Pulaski often and would prefer a method that didn t involve, lots of luck or  outright snaggin MT

Response:

There’s a lady over in rec.outdoors.fishing.saltwater looking for info on Christmas Island. Isn’t that what they call a non sequitur?

christmas island is a non sequi-tour?  how much does it cost? jeff (who’s taken too many sequi-tours)

Response:

Id be very interested to hear this approach as  I fish  Pulaski often and would prefer a method that didn t involve, lots of luck or  outright snaggin MT

I’ll get on about writing the TR this weekend, Mark.  I’ll try to give a better description of the setup and approach.  Still managed to tail snag about 4 of ‘em that trip, but for the first time salmon fishing, I didn’t feel like I was relying entirely on luck, so I know the feeling well. TL, Zippy

Response:

Id be very interested to hear this approach as  I fish  Pulaski often and would prefer a method that didn t involve, lots of luck or  outright snaggin MT I’ll get on about writing the TR this weekend, Mark.  I’ll try to give a better description of the setup and approach.  Still managed to tail snag about 4 of ‘em that trip, but for the first time salmon fishing, I didn’t feel like I was relying entirely on luck, so I know the feeling well. TL, Zippy

Will look forward to it. My  arm gets real tired of trying to drag a salmon hooked in the top fin sideways thru fast water <G  MT

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Id be very interested to hear this approach as  I fish  Pulaski often and would prefer a method that didn t involve, lots of luck or outright snaggin MT I’ll get on about writing the TR this weekend, Mark.  I’ll try to give a better description of the setup and approach.  Still managed to tail snag about 4 of ‘em that trip, but for the first time salmon fishing, I didn’t feel like I was relying entirely on luck, so I know the feeling well. TL, Zippy Will look forward to it. My  arm gets real tired of trying to drag a salmon hooked in the top fin sideways thru fast water <G  MT

the best solution for large foul hooked fish is to simply point the rod at the fish and break it off.  my opinion is that a fly stuck on a fish causes less stress than the longer landing time required for foul hooked fish (especially those hooked on the back or the tail).  since in most places one must release any foul hooked fish, this is my preference with the accidental foul hooked fish. chris

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Id be very interested to hear this approach as  I fish  Pulaski often and would prefer a method that didn t involve, lots of luck or outright snaggin MT I’ll get on about writing the TR this weekend, Mark.  I’ll try to give a better description of the setup and approach.  Still managed to tail snag about 4 of ‘em that trip, but for the first time salmon fishing, I didn’t feel like I was relying entirely on luck, so I know the feeling well. TL, Zippy Will look forward to it. My  arm gets real tired of trying to drag a salmon hooked in the top fin sideways thru fast water <G  MT the best solution for large foul hooked fish is to simply point the rod at the fish and break it off.  my opinion is that a fly stuck on a fish causes less stress than the longer landing time required for foul hooked fish (especially those hooked on the back or the tail).  since in most places one must release any foul hooked fish, this is my preference with the accidental foul hooked fish. chris

Hi Chris  I  do  folow this practice, tho sometimes it s 10 mins into the fight and about 100 yards  down river…..  MT

Response:

Fishing on the redds, eh? There’s a lady over in rec.outdoors.fishing.saltwater looking for info on Christmas Island.

Isn’t that what they call a non sequitur? Tell here there are no redds at Christmas Island.

Response:

Fishing on the redds, eh?

There’s a lady over in rec.outdoors.fishing.saltwater looking for info on Christmas Island. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

The only thing I can think of was that it drifted into her   redd. Any other  ideas?

I’ve been trying to find time to put together a trip report on the Salmon River for a month now, but it involved a local guide teaching me a new way (new to me, at least) of targeting salmon.  It centered around small…very small…seemingly improbably small….naturals on frightfully light tippets.  It was outstandingly successful…so much so, that under similar circumstances, I would be hard pressed not to use his method as the "go to" approach. Anyhow, his theory centered around not only a "housekeeping" attitude, but a general territorial defense response, especially for competing males. Got to find a few minutes to cobble that TR together for contribution…. TL, Zippy

Response:

  I was fishing in Oswego  for trout  coming in  from the lake. Some nice  rainbows, steel head and Browns  had been taken that day. Most of the  fisherman were using  egg patterns or egg sacks. Deciding something different might work I tried  a  Size 8 stone fly nymph.  The line came to a stop, I  set the hook  and about 10 minutes later landed  a female King that was ready to spawn. Why would she have taken a nymph? The only thing I can think of was that it drifted into her   redd. Any other  ideas?  MT

Response:

  I was fishing in Oswego  for trout  coming in  from the lake. Some nice  rainbows, steel head and Browns  had been taken that day. Most of the  fisherman were using  egg patterns or egg sacks. Deciding something different might work I tried  a  Size 8 stone fly nymph.  The line came to a stop, I  set the hook  and about 10 minutes later landed  a female King that was ready to spawn. Why would she have taken a nymph? The only thing I can think of was that it drifted into her redd. Any other  ideas?

    Being a pregnant female, she probably mistook it for chocolate.

Response:

… landed  a female King that was ready to spawn. Why would she have taken a nymph? The only thing I can think of was that it drifted into her redd. Any other  ideas?

Housekeeping. I caught Muskegon steelhead the same way. They don’t eat, of course, but they will clear insects out of their redds. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

… landed  a female King that was ready to spawn. Why would she have taken a nymph? The only thing I can think of was that it drifted into her redd. Any other  ideas? Housekeeping. I caught Muskegon steelhead the same way. They don’t eat, of course, but they will clear insects out of their redds.

Fishing on the redds, eh?

Response:

 The line came to a stop, I  set the hook  and about 10 minutes later landed  a female King that was ready to spawn. Why would she have taken a nymph? The only thing I can think of was that it drifted into her redd. Any other  ideas?

I dunno, but up there I really try to avoid egg patterns unless I’m desperate.   Lots of nymph patterns work well, & I saw a guy last year catch about a 20-pounder on a GR Hare’s Ear.  FWIW Joe F.

Response:

Question:

In his book, "Path of the Paddle," Bill Mason states that even though mfrs. will tell you that shallow-arch, shallow-vee or round-bottomed boats have better secondary stability than flat-bottomed canoes, he believes that flat-bottom boats perform just as well. Of course, he probably preferred traditional, canvas-wood canoes that were more likely flat-bottomed. I like paddling on lakes and rivers with my wife, but the majority of the time I spend in my canoe is fishing, so that takes top priority. By some standards, my canoe isn’t even really a canoe. It’s a barge. It’s a 19- foot, square-stern Grumman. It has a flat-bottom. I also have a sail rig for this canoe and have had it out in 2-3 foot chop, sailing, heeled over. It hasn’t come close to swamping. I routinely stand up in it while fishing. My 17 year-old son and his buddy both stand up in it at the same time. In fact, he told me that three of them were standing up in it the last time they went out.  Fools…  It is st Before you buy.

Response:

A canoe is a long narrow boat with fine entry and exit for paddling. A kayak is a low freeboard canoe usually decked over. You can get close to a canoe with narrow flat bottom double ended pirogue(?) or a skiff (with a transom). I designed and built a narrow skiff for light weight paddling and sailing. (There’s a writeup in file dogskiff.txt at website www.ncf.ca/~ag384.) A flat bottom boat with raked sides has reserve bouyancy. Mine is quite stable with 15 deg rake. I made a hoop tent to go over it and sleep in it. The idea is to be able to go where there are no campsites to get away from crowded canoe routes and noisy death-seeking kayakers. In his book, "Path of the Paddle," Bill Mason states that even though mfrs. will tell you that shallow-arch, shallow-vee or round-bottomed boats have better secondary stability than flat-bottomed canoes, he believes that flat-bottom boats perform just as well. Of course, he probably preferred traditional, canvas-wood canoes that were more likely flat-bottomed.

the original native bark canoes had round bottoms and were very unstable. when we were little we were not allowed to go in the canoe because it was considered too dangerous. we got to play around in a rowboat. I like paddling on lakes and rivers with my wife, but the majority of the time I spend in my canoe is fishing, so that takes top priority. By some standards, my canoe isn’t even really a canoe. It’s a barge. It’s a 19- foot, square-stern Grumman. It has a flat-bottom. I also have a sail rig for this canoe and have had it out in 2-3 foot chop, sailing, heeled over. It hasn’t come close to swamping. I routinely stand up in it while fishing. My 17 year-old son and his buddy both stand up in it at the same time. In fact, he told me that three of them were standing up in it the last time they went out.  Fools…  It is st

there are some good photos of a canoe under sail at the American Canoe Association website www.acanet.org – they hold canoe sailing regattas Before you buy.

– National Capital FreeNet      www.ncf.ca     Ottawa’s free community network

Response:

I must have been too long-winded;) My first message got cut short. I continue: The Grumman is stable as a rock. I suspect that some of this is due to it’s length. It is also almost 40-inches wide. However, it weighs a ton (120+ pounds). My wife doesn’t like paddling it too far because of the weight, and I ruptured a disk, so I’ve been thinking about adding another, much lighter canoe to the stable. I’ll have to get a trailer for the Grumman . I’ve paddled a friend’s 16-foot Old Town Penobscot that was way more tippy than I’d like for fishing. Every cast was an adventure for the other occupant. It was, however, a nice, fast canoe for day-touring. I test paddled a Wenonah Fisherman which is nice and light, and I thought would be quite stable. It was okay. But considering the width, (38-39 inches), I was not impressed with its stability. It’s only 14 feet long. A Mad River Revelation was much more stable than the Fisherman (which surprised me), and I have done quite a bit of fish Before you buy.

Response:

This is really weird. It must be because I’m using Deja News. I continue: fishing out of this boat, but it doesn’t compare to the Grumman for stability. It’s 40 pounds lighter, but still more weight than I’d like. My question is, has anyone tried an Old Town Camper or Pathfinder? They are flat-bottomed. Do they have really bad secondary stability? or was Bill Mason right? I know what the literature says. I would like someone who is speaking from experience. The Camper weighs less than 60 LBS, so would be a nice light-weight option, but I have not yet found one to try out. Does anyone have a better recommendation? I wouldn’t want anything heavier the Revelation, and I don’t even think I want to go that heavy. Plus… I want initial stability that is at least as good as the Revelation, and would prefer something approaching that of the Grumman. Any ideas?? — Have a good day! L Rochester Before you buy.

Response:

My question is, has anyone tried an Old Town Camper or Pathfinder? They are flat-bottomed. Do they have really bad secondary stability? or was Bill Mason right? I know what the literature says. I would like someone who is speaking from experience. Any ideas??

I’ve had my camper for at least 7 years(maybe more…the past is fuzzy). Before that I paddled a 17′ aluminum Grumman Eagle. I made my choice (chosing the Camper over the Penobscott) because of the age of my kids at that time. I wanted something stable so my toddlers could move around the boat. I knew that I wouldn’t be able to do a lot of heavy whitewater paddling until the kids got some age so I settled on the Camper. The only time I regret my decision is when I want to go fast on flatwater… It’s not exactly a speed demon. Stability ?  My favorite position is slouched against my seat back ( the plastic ones work great) with my long legs (I’m 6′5") hanging over the thwart or the sides. I’ll kneel (or at least sit up a little) for rapids, but that seems to be the only time lateral stability is an issue(it is still a canoe). As far as secondary stability, it will lean quite a bit, but keep your low brace handy. I’ve often wondered if there could possibly be an easier boat and if the trade-off for other features would be worth it( I still lust for a Penobscott 16). The kids are growing up, rolling their own boats, and not satisfied with class II water anymore. My Camper handles class III well enough, but there’s not really enough freeboard to stay dry in big waves. I think the aesthetics of the design make for a really cool,traditional look, but it also makes a big target when the wind is blowing. I’ve got to find a boat for bigger water, but I won’t be trading in for it. I wouldn’t be able to part with my Camper. It sounds like a model that could serve your purposes well.Good Luck Ted Bost

Response:

My question is, has anyone tried an Old Town Camper or Pathfinder? They are flat-bottomed. Do they have really bad secondary stability? or was Bill Mason right? I know what the literature says. I would like someone who is speaking from experience. Any ideas?? I’ve had my camper for at least 7 years(maybe more…the past is fuzzy). Before that I paddled a 17′ aluminum Grumman Eagle. I made my choice (chosing the Camper over the Penobscott) because of the age of my kids at

well, here’s a vote for the Penobscot for a fishing canoe, but in fishing, I’m thinking flyfishing from a kneeling position….where the secondary stability gave me a wide *envelope* in which to rock around with. *(…and another one of Steve’s flyfishing LoG_CaBiN StOrIeS): I once had an extremely shallow-arched, 12footer of the unstable_to_the_max variety….talk about speed in getting to where you wanted to be, yes… but it was exciting…NOT in the way anyone wants…just throwing normal back/forward casts…with arm movement only.. I was dancing-on-the-edge of staying upright versus an instantaneous dip….whew..NOT FUN!:-)..BUT in the heat of summer..didn’t seem like all that a disasterous proposition. *(ahem, yes back to business!:-) The original poster might demo something in fiberglass, as a wide barge-style canoe in plastic will handle like the latest cruise_liner As always, the magic word….demo! tight_lines, steve *Hey while on the topic of excitement via a tippy canoe…any *war-stories*?

Response:

To each his own but I think that you could easily fish out of a Penobscot. Maybe not two people standing.  I have a 16 and there are a LOT more unstabel boats than a 16.  It has a lot of secondary stability,  I took some guide courses in a disco 158(similar to a camper) and when you got it leaned a little to far you were wet NOW.  The Penobscot is a lot faster and better handling boat than the 158,  

Response:

War Stories!!! When I first got my Wildfire  was unable to reenter from deep water.  I fell out in a local tidal creek and ended up swimming with the boat a long way in a head wind.  I could barely stand when reaching the shore.

Response:

Have you tried canoe stabilizers? . – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My question is, has anyone tried an Old Town Camper or Pathfinder? They are flat-bottomed. Do they have really bad secondary stability? or was

Response:

There is a rigid hull foldable inflatable canoe which is highly stable, fast, very maneuverable that I have used for fishing in small , big rivers and lakes, standing up in the boat. You can find information about it at www.oviboat.com Roger  Sansoucy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A canoe is a long narrow boat with fine entry and exit for paddling. A kayak is a low freeboard canoe usually decked over. You can get close to a canoe with narrow flat bottom double ended pirogue(?) or a skiff (with a transom). I designed and built a narrow skiff for light weight paddling and sailing. (There’s a writeup in file dogskiff.txt at website www.ncf.ca/~ag384.) A flat bottom boat with raked sides has reserve bouyancy. Mine is quite stable with 15 deg rake. I made a hoop tent to go over it and sleep in it. The idea is to be able to go where there are no campsites to get away from crowded canoe routes and noisy death-seeking kayakers. In his book, "Path of the Paddle," Bill Mason states that even though mfrs. will tell you that shallow-arch, shallow-vee or round-bottomed boats have better secondary stability than flat-bottomed canoes, he believes that flat-bottom boats perform just as well. Of course, he probably preferred traditional, canvas-wood canoes that were more likely flat-bottomed. the original native bark canoes had round bottoms and were very unstable. when we were little we were not allowed to go in the canoe because it was considered too dangerous. we got to play around in a rowboat. I like paddling on lakes and rivers with my wife, but the majority of the time I spend in my canoe is fishing, so that takes top priority. By some standards, my canoe isn’t even really a canoe. It’s a barge. It’s a 19- foot, square-stern Grumman. It has a flat-bottom. I also have a sail rig for this canoe and have had it out in 2-3 foot chop, sailing, heeled over. It hasn’t come close to swamping. I routinely stand up in it while fishing. My 17 year-old son and his buddy both stand up in it at the same time. In fact, he told me that three of them were standing up in it the last time they went out.  Fools…  It is st there are some good photos of a canoe under sail at the American Canoe Association website www.acanet.org – they hold canoe sailing regattas Before you buy. — National Capital FreeNet      www.ncf.ca     Ottawa’s free community network

Response:

Question:

I am in the market for a trailerable boat in the 22-26 foot range to be used in the ocean around the Channel Islands to mostly cruise and dive from.  I don’t really do that much fishing but would use it do dive but also be comfortable to sleep preferably up to 4 people.  I have always liked the Skipjacks and heard they are good in the ocean and enjoy the fly bridge.  I am looking for a good solid sea-worthy craft.  Single engine or double, im open on that.  Would love to take it someday up to the inner waterways up North of Washington and do a nice trip that way. Any recommendations on makes and models would be greatly appreciated. James

Response:

Expensive, but nice.  Davis Boats in Morro Bay.  Rock Harbor 36. Bill

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am in the market for a trailerable boat in the 22-26 foot range to be used in the ocean around the Channel Islands to mostly cruise and dive from.  I don’t really do that much fishing but would use it do dive but also be comfortable to sleep preferably up to 4 people.  I have always liked the Skipjacks and heard they are good in the ocean and enjoy the fly bridge.  I am looking for a good solid sea-worthy craft.  Single engine or double, im open on that.  Would love to take it someday up to the inner waterways up North of Washington and do a nice trip that way. Any recommendations on makes and models would be greatly appreciated. James

Response:

OOPs Make that the Rock Harbor 25.  Bad fingers. Bill

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Expensive, but nice.  Davis Boats in Morro Bay.  Rock Harbor 36. Bill I am in the market for a trailerable boat in the 22-26 foot range to be used in the ocean around the Channel Islands to mostly cruise and dive from.  I don’t really do that much fishing but would use it do dive but also be comfortable to sleep preferably up to 4 people.  I have always liked the Skipjacks and heard they are good in the ocean and enjoy the fly bridge.  I am looking for a good solid sea-worthy craft.  Single engine or double, im open on that.  Would love to take it someday up to the inner waterways up North of Washington and do a nice trip that way. Any recommendations on makes and models would be greatly appreciated. James

Response:

Question:

I like mine. The scale is hard to read though. Capt. Gary S. Colecchio West Palm Beach "Lie ? Me ? Never!  No, no, no, the truth is far too much fun !" – Captain Hook

Response:

Personally, as a salmon and steelhead guide,  I’d say no way to the Boga Grip … any of the bigger fish species will slip their vertebrae being held vertically out of the water … imagine yourself being hung with all your weight by the lip … ‘nuf sed I’ll bet … — Bob Ball Bob’s Piscatorial Pursuits Alaska / Washington Salmon, Steelhead, and Halibut Fishing http://www.piscatorialpursuits.com "If it’s wild, let it go!"

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – so i would never lift them by the lip, since tailing them usually works just fine. hope that helps, chris I would have thought that tailing them would remove more meniscus (there’s that word again)…where as a proper lip doesn’t bind or twist the jaw at all……I’ve never heard any pros or cons on this….will I

Response:

Has anyone had any experience (good or bad) using the BogaGrip in flyfishing applications?  Obviously we like it (biased opinion), but we have heard very little about it in the flyfishing world. Would appreciate some comment. — Will West Lionheart Fishing Safari http://www.lionheartsafari.com

Response:

Has anyone had any experience (good or bad) using the BogaGrip in flyfishing applications?  Obviously we like it (biased opinion), but we have heard very little about it in the flyfishing world. Would appreciate some comment.

i like mine alot for holding black rockfish and lingcod in the saltwater… they’re also great for holding fish while you cut their gills to bleed them.  for species like salmon and steelhead, i don’t like for them to even leave the water, so i would never lift them by the lip, since tailing them usually works just fine. hope that helps, chris

Response:

so i would never lift them by the lip, since tailing them usually works just fine. hope that helps, chris

I would have thought that tailing them would remove more meniscus  (there’s that word again)…where as a proper lip doesn’t bind or twist the jaw at all……I’ve never heard any pros or cons on this….will I

Response:

I bought my Boga Grip from Lion Heart Safari and am very very satisfied with it.  Although I do not flyfish but surfcast, all wading and the Boga Grip is underwater the whole time, it works flawlessly.  Just a rinse with freshwater after each trip and that’s all I do to it.  It is great for handling bluefish and striped bass. Richie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone had any experience (good or bad) using the BogaGrip in flyfishing applications?  Obviously we like it (biased opinion), but we have heard very little about it in the flyfishing world. Would appreciate some comment. — Will West Lionheart Fishing Safari http://www.lionheartsafari.com

Response:

Question:

You don’t beat up on your own sport. Mr. G. —

Response:

You don’t beat up on your own sport.

A curious (if not bizarre) simile – which begs the question: just what do you do with your bar of bath soap, George? (Practise C&R in the tub? ;^) /dave

Response:

Well this was an eye opener here on this cool morning in northern Maine….I’m howling… dave — dave’s homepage madness – flyfishing in Maine and more http://www.midmaine.com/~dbottom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You don’t beat up on your own sport. A curious (if not bizarre) simile – which begs the question: just what do you do with your bar of bath soap, George? (Practise C&R in the tub? ;^) /dave

Response:

Interesting analogy.. but why the word "molest," which seem more in line with using them for your own purposes and then tossing them aside? You don’t beat up on your own sport. Mr. G.

-Mark/Particle Salad Particle Salad/Noom Room Studio http://home.earthlink.net/~psalad

Response:

Question:

<< An Orvis bobber. Peter

Indicator’ pretty good Pete. Pete, wait until George sees my new Orvis Zebra line.  He’ll plop that scrawny  ass of his down on a rock and probably will never get up!  <G  I have decided that I *will* show up in full Orvis mufi.  I am having trouble trying to rent an Orvis Jeep, however. Dave PS:  Gladys, get the man a few drams of the old Grouse — he looks pale behind the gills!

Response:

Pete, wait until George sees my new Orvis Zebra line.  He’ll plop that scrawny  ass of his down on a rock and probably will never get up!  <G  I have decided that I *will* show up in full Orvis mufi.  I am having trouble trying to rent an Orvis Jeep, however.

I don’t think they make Orvis Jeeps anymore, but one of their catalogs had some D90’s in it so I should be in good shape<g. — Charlie…

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – << An Orvis bobber. Peter Indicator’ pretty good Pete. Pete, wait until George sees my new Orvis Zebra line.  He’ll plop that scrawny  ass of his down on a rock and probably will never get up!  <G  I have decided that I *will* show up in full Orvis mufi.  I am having trouble trying to rent an Orvis Jeep, however. Dave PS:  Gladys, get the man a few drams of the old Grouse — he looks pale behind the gills!

—

Question:

I remember reading that at an FFF conclave in Alberta, the keynote speaker, Lefty, was nearly late because he had been out on the river giving casting lessons to some kid he had met.  I too have not been impressed with all the folks trying to make a buck on the sport I love, and would not give lefty a dime for his web site–however, the story I read leads me to believe that his heart may be in the right spot. Eric Oden Boise

I think that lots of people in the fly fishing world are very talented but only the good guys like Lefty get popular with the public. When they hire him to work at a sport show they are getting a bargain. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

Response:

I remember reading that at an FFF conclave in Alberta, the keynote speaker, Lefty, was nearly late because he had been out on the river giving casting lessons to some kid he had met.  I too have not been impressed with all the folks trying to make a buck on the sport I love, and would not give lefty a dime for his web site–however, the story I read leads me to believe that his heart may be in the right spot. Eric Oden Boise

Response:

Question:

       I am getting a Golden Retriever pup in one week and I want him to be a good fishing dog.  His father, "B", is horrible.  He has learned that my fly is what catches the fish, therefore he followes it swimming downstream.  Please help me teach my dog to be a good, mello fishing dog.                                  Thank you,                                     Penny Acklen

My yellow lab started out bad, but has improved a lot since being a puppy. "Fishing" training in our case started as general training with a tennis ball in the river. Get the dog to sit and hold while the ball floats downstream till you release him (Yah, like that’s easy . Once you’re at this point your fly will be safe. Even though Cass doesn’t chase flies, I still keep her in the truck if anyone else is on the beach. Otherwise I go cast in the rip and she chases gulls down the beach. She did try to retreive a striper I released last year, but I think the 50 yd. ride down the tide rip taught her a good lesson. Another thing that seemed to work for us was taking her into the marshes in a local estuary, where I would have her lay down and stay while I fished, then when I was done I would toss her frisbee in the water as a reward. Again, this is a fairly remote and uncrowded spot. Goldens are more mellow than Labs generally, but I really couldn’t do much real fishing with Cass until she was 4 yrs. old. She meant well as a pup, but…. So my advise early on is to go out thinking ‘dog training’ instead of fishing, then after a couple years you can start real fishing. YMMV of course !                                                                 jc

Response:

Penny, There is no such thing as a good fishing dog.

No kidding.  Mine has a terrible time with her knots – no thumbs – and insists on using San Juan Worms…

Response:

       I am getting a Golden Retriever pup in one week and I want him to be a good fishing dog.  His father, "B", is horrible.  He has learned that my fly is what catches the fish, therefore he followes it swimming downstream.  Please help me teach my dog to be a good, mello fishing dog.  

I wonder if a Golden Retriever’s coat acts like marabou when it’s sunk?   I have two field-bred springers.  As much as I’d like to take them everywhere with me (I used to take them to my office before I changed teaching jobs–not the dogs’ fault <g), they’d seriously upset the calm, contemplative quality that enlightened and highly evolved flyfishers demand in their streamside environment.   Cheers, and happy training, David

Response:

Penny, There is no such thing as a good fishing dog. No kidding.  Mine has a terrible time with her knots – no thumbs – and insists on using San Juan Worms…

On the other hand, depending on the color and length of their hair, they might make good flytying material. — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY

Response:

Get an airedale! Because my eyes are not so good, he ties on my flies. He’s just beginning to learn to double haul.5

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No kidding.  Mine has a terrible time with her knots – no thumbs – and insists on using San Juan Worms…

And you try persuading them to accept C&R… Andrew

Response:

No kidding.  Mine has a terrible time with her knots – no thumbs – and insists on using San Juan Worms… And you try persuading them to accept C&R… Andrew

forget Catch and Release, I’d be happy if my dog would "Fetch and Release"…

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –        I am getting a Golden Retriever pup in one week and I want him to be a good fishing dog.  His father, "B", is horrible.  He has learned that my fly is what catches the fish, therefore he followes it swimming downstream.  Please help me teach my dog to be a good, mello fishing dog.                                  Thank you,                                     Penny Acklen   Hi Penny-      Come to the Amazon with us. When the pirahna grab is in full swing teach your pup to fetch a stick. He’ll learn to admire your flies from a distance. It might be easier to simply beat it about the head with a striped bass   All kidding aside, retriever’s are pretty smart and you should be able to train the pup pretty easily. A long lead and a choke collar might make a lasting impression. As you found out, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.   -Ralph —

We’ve got two labs and my wife deals with one, while I deal with the other.   They do pretty well, however we’ve had trouble with the younger one wanting to bite into the fish if you’re not careful.   The other one investigates but doesn’t attempt anything else. We use pinch collars instead of choke collars and find them very effective.   We just keep the leash attached while we’re fishing for the first little while and correct them as needed.    After they settle down a bit, we can generally remove the leads and they’ll stay with us pretty well.   Most of the time, we can get them to lie down and wait on us to move upstream.    Of course, still being pups (the oldest one is 15 months), we have to give them a little leeway once in awhile and let them romp around in the water a bit. As with most endeavors, I think the best advice is to simply practice patience and realize that you won’t always have full control.   When this happens, we stop fishing for a bit and work with them on leads to get them back on track (or we take turns fishing while the other works the dogs). Hope this helps.. Del Duncan

Response:

As much as I would love to have my dogs accompany me on fishing trips, I must agree with one respondent who recommended leaving them home.  In addition to all the stuff they can get caught in (old hooks, etc.), there are two experiences I have had in the past which have led me to leave my dogs home.  The first was when one of my older dogs was with me and slipped down a steep bank on some sticks and rubble, disappearing completely underwater for an instant before returning to the surface to hurriedly swim to the bank of a fortunately slow stream.  We were both badly shaken, and fortunately the hole she fell into was deep enough that she didn’t hit anything and she wasn’t hurt.  On another trip, this same dog was behind me and was accidently snagged with a low backcast.  She was snagged in the flank (fortunately not in an eye) and the day ended there. Again, I would love to bring my dogs along with me on fishing trips, but I firmly believe it is in their best interest to be left (well cared for) at home.

Response:

        I am getting a Golden Retriever pup in one week and I want him to be a good fishing dog.  His father, "B", is horrible.  He has learned that my fly is what catches the fish, therefore he followes it swimming downstream.  Please help me teach my dog to be a good, mello fishing dog.                                   Thank you,                                      Penny Acklen

Response:

        I am getting a Golden Retriever pup in one week and I want him to be a good fishing dog.  His father, "B", is horrible.  He has learned that my fly is what catches the fish, therefore he followes it swimming downstream.  Please help me teach my dog to be a good, mello fishing dog.                                   Thank you,                                      Penny Acklen

   Unless you are fishing for salmon or something large that has to be turned in the water, teach him to sit quietly on the bank near you, but an unruly dog at lake or stream side is a real hastle — not only for you but for others.  I realize that this is no advice, but too often I see people "out for the day" who ruin it for themselves and others by bringing a dog.                                  Not meaning any disrespect,                                     Chuck

Response:

       I am getting a Golden Retriever pup in one week and I want him to be a good fishing dog.  His father, "B", is horrible.  He has learned that my fly is what catches the fish, therefore he followes it swimming downstream.  Please help me teach my dog to be a good, mello fishing dog.                                  Thank you,                                     Penny Acklen

   Hi Penny-       Come to the Amazon with us. When the pirahna grab is in full swing teach your pup to fetch a stick. He’ll learn to admire your flies from a distance. It might be easier to simply beat it about the head with a striped bass    All kidding aside, retriever’s are pretty smart and you should be able to train the pup pretty easily. A long lead and a choke collar might make a lasting impression. As you found out, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.    -Ralph —

Response:

Penny, There is no such thing as a good fishing dog. I have been training dogs for years and I know! The only thing that really helps is to get the ’sit’ command burned into the animal. Put your bag on the ground and sit him near it, so he has a base and you can work out if he has moved. Sit him well back from the water’s edge – once the dog is wet you are in trouble! Pups are relatively easy to teach to sit – just sit him every time before he gets his food and he will get the idea really fast. Keep him sat for thirty seconds  before you let him eat (don’t do this on your best carpet the drooling saliva will ruin it). The key thing is to teach the dog that he has to sit until you tell him to do something else. If he gets the idea that he can wander off after a period of time you will have trouble with him later on. When you take him fishing, be prepared to devote some time to getting ashore and putting him back next to the bag if he wanders. If you let him away with it once you will have wasted all your earlier hard work. Pick him up and carry him back. When he is young and light, carry him back in your arms but upside down, legs in the air (most dogs hate this, big loss of face). Sit him, take hold of one of his jowls fairly lightly, look him straight in the eye and growl at him. Carry a supply of biscuits for when he gets it right and sits until told otherwise. Oh, and when you do tell him he can wander, make sure you go back to him to do it. If dogs get used to you calling them from afar, they anticipate. Once they start doing this, they will interpret almost anything as a call to come to you, including head scratching and catching a fish! You might recover your older dog by going fishing with a friend. One of you should try to catch a fish, the other one pounces on the dog when he moves and goes through the routine. Big confident dogs are a problem to discipline, but if you fold over their ear fur outermost and (gently) bite it, you will reduce most labs to a jellied heap. This is what their mother used to do to them when they were pups – again, big loss of face, go to the bottom of the pack etc. I have never managed to train a dog that would follow me along the bank without coming in yet, and would be interested to hear if anyone here has. Andrew

Response:

Question:

Has anyone been able to get into Trout Unlimited’s web site??? It was supposed to be available as of January 15th but I get no response each attempt to get in. I’m using the advertised address…..http://www.tu.org/trout….Is this correct? Thanks in advance…. JAPPLe

Try this address, http://www.cais.net/trout/. Vince

Response:

Has anyone been able to get into Trout Unlimited’s web site??? It was supposed to be available as of January 15th but I get no response each attempt to get in. I’m using the advertised address…..http://www.tu.org/trout….Is this correct?

Seems to work fine for me. It does however, take several minutes to load…. Wherever you go….. There you will be

Response:

Go to the YAHOO search engine.  There is a reference point to a Trout Unlimited Site.  It is up and running, I’ve been there. Ross Laurie

Response:

Hi Try the following web address for the Trout Unlimited web site: http://www.cais.net/trout/ Good Luck Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, Mt (catalog avail)

Response:

Question:

Well, some of us need more stability than others.  Since I haven’t fallen into a stream (unlike some people I know) that aspect wouldn’t concern me.  

Actually, my balance may not be the best, but even though I fall in the stream once in a while, I can still catch fish (unlike some people I know) which is the point of it anyway.  I prefer to stay dry while I catch these fish, but I don’t mind being a little wet.  Hey, I rather be catching fish while a little wet, than being dry and SKUNKED. -Cousin *                       *    "To catch a river unguarded is less a        * * Paul "Cousin" Graham   *    matter of where to look than of when, and   * *                          *  I have a secret time."-Ted Leeson           *

Response:

I also have a Sage four piece and find its action as good as any two piece in the same price range that I’ve had the opportunity to cast. I almost went with a two piece instead, working on the (previously stated by someone else) theory that the rod case makes a great hiking staff. But then I also mountain bike to a few favorite spots and that 4-5′ rod case can be a might unwieldy strapped to a bike frame…   Ben

Response:

There have been several posts that have commented that there is no reason
to buy a travel rod because the two piece rods all fit in the overheads,
etc.  I generally agree, but would add one caveat.  If you are going to do
some backpacking or take horseback trips into more remote locations,
consider a travel rod (ie, a pack rod).                                               Dallas, TX
                                              Ennis, MT

Also on short business trips it’s nice to have a small rod that fits in your suitcase or straps to your briefcase. -Clyde         ..            ..   \   (  \  ~     //  )  //        Bay Networks, Inc. "What do you mean, ‘NOT TONIGHT’!?"  

Response:

What red-blooded fly fisherman is satisfied with just ONE rod. I find my 4-piece  rod satisfactory, but not QUITE the same as my 2-piece rods.

Response:

Can’t imagine having only 1 Fly rod, but I have found that my 3pc Sage Casts better than my 2pc Sage of the same series. I believe that Sage has designed the ferrule as an enhancement to the rod

Response:

I have been fishing a Scott 5-pc 9′ #6, 4-pc 8′ 6" #4, and a 4-pc 10′ #8. I have used them for over five years.  The y are the easiest to carry, transport and fike with.  I have never experienced any problems, dead spots, or breakage.  This year, Scott has introduced a lifetime, unconditional guarantee.

Response:

What red-blooded fly fisherman is satisfied with just ONE rod. I find my 4-piece  rod satisfactory, but not QUITE the same as my 2-piece rods.

I agree, fly rods are like golf clubs, you need a different one for every conceivable situation. John Carmichael

Response:

I bought a Sage 590 LL 4 piece travel rod last year and I like the way it casts and it sure is easier to travel with then the 2 piece version. I can carry this one on the airplane (fits in overhead storage) and know that it will arrive at my destination.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As for 4 piece rods, there is really no difference when it come to air travel, but I would recommend them if you ever backpack.  Backpacking even once, in IMHO, would be enough reason to purchase a 4 piece.  Backpacking with a 2 piece tube can be hell.  Unless of course you like getting snagged by every piece of greenery within 10 feet. — Well, IMHO, pack rods are great when you want to put them on your pack and get them out of the way, BUT two piece tubes can come in handy.  I coat the bottom (about a foot) with Shoe Goo or Plastic Dip.  Then I use the tube for a walking stick.  I had one of those babies save me from slipping on a rock in a stream with a FULL pack. Anyway, I think you should list the pros an cons of each, and then decide which one would best fit your needs. -Paul *                       *    "To catch a river unguarded is less a        * * Paul "Cousin" Graham   *    matter of where to look than of when, and   * *                          *  I have a secret time."-Ted Leeson           *

Well, some of us need more stability than others.  Since I haven’t fallen into a stream (unlike some people I know) that aspect wouldn’t concern me.   Later. —

Response:

I am getting ready to by a rod, and don’t no if I should get a 2 piece, or a travel rod.  Any recommendations???                                         Brian

Response:

I am getting ready to by a rod, and don’t no if I should get a 2 piece, or a travel rod.  Any recommendations???                                    Brian

Buy a rod that casts the best and meets all of your requirements for enjoyable fishing.  If that rod happens to be a 2-piece rod, then buy it.  If that rod happens to be a 4-piece rod then buy it.  It is possible to travel with a 2-piece rod. You can also fish close to home with a 4-piece rod. Brian, if you want to cast a bunch of rods and talk more about what you want in a rod, we can take this conversation off-line via RIT email.  I work for a local fly fishing outfitter part-time. Frank

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am getting ready to by a rod, and don’t no if I should get a 2 piece, or a travel rod.  Any recommendations???                                       Brian Buy a rod that casts the best and meets all of your requirements for enjoyable fishing.  If that rod happens to be a 2-piece rod, then buy it.  If that rod happens to be a 4-piece rod then buy it.  It is possible to travel with a 2-piece rod. You can also fish close to home with a 4-piece rod. Brian, if you want to cast a bunch of rods and talk more about what you want in a rod, we can take this conversation off-line via RIT email.  I work for a local fly fishing outfitter part-time. Frank

A time ago I had serious plans on buying a Thomas & Thomas Horizon travel rod. I had tried the 2 pc and wanted a 4 pc if it was as good as the 2 pc. The xtra money did not matter to me then. After trying the 4 pc I was very disappointed and bought the 2 pc, a T&T HS864. I think that if you can find a 4 pc rod you like a lot, buy it, but don’t buy a rod that you ‘almost’ want just because it is 4 pc. It’s worth the trouble carrying the 2 pc when you travel. Good luck. /Key | Key Hyckenberg                        |                       | | http://www.csd.uu.se/~m91key/         |                       | | University of Uppsala, Sweden         |                       | | Department of Mathematics             |         – L P Deutsch | |                                                               | | **** A bad day fishing is better than a good day at work **** | |                                                               |

Response:

My recommendation is: By a travel rod!!!! with two piece rods. There are a huge selection of excellent three and four piece rods available on the market. Tight lines! Inge

Response:

I agree with Andrew.  I have taken my two piece rods, an eight foot four weight and a ten foot seven weight, to alaska six times.  There has never been a problem.  It was not at all difficult.  The rod tubes will fit in the overhead compartments on most jets.  Traveling on commercial airlines is not a reason just to buy short or multi-piece rods. Just my $0.0212 (thats two cents plus 6% Michigan sales tax) worth. Steve

Response:

There have been several posts that have commented that there is no reason to buy a travel rod because the two piece rods all fit in the overheads, etc.  I generally agree, but would add one caveat.  If you are going to do some backpacking or take horseback trips into more remote locations, consider a travel rod (ie, a pack rod).                                               Dallas, TX                                               Ennis, MT

Response:

I agree w/ decision to buy travel rod. In the better rods. travel rods are almost indistuinguisable from 2 piece rods in performance. And the convenience is really well worth it. i was very skeptical when I bought my first, four piece {a sage}, but now I wonj’t buy anything else.

Response:

I agree w/ decision to buy travel rod. In the better rods. travel rods are almost indistuinguisable from 2 piece rods in performance. And the convenience is really well worth it. i was very skeptical when I bought my first, four piece {a sage}, but now I wonj’t buy anything else.

As for 4 piece rods, there is really no difference when it come to air travel, but I would recommend them if you ever backpack.  Backpacking even once, in IMHO, would be enough reason to purchase a 4 piece.  Backpacking with a 2 piece tube can be hell.  Unless of course you like getting snagged by every piece of greenery within 10 feet. —

Response:

As for 4 piece rods, there is really no difference when it come to air travel, but I would recommend them if you ever backpack.  Backpacking even once, in IMHO, would be enough reason to purchase a 4 piece.  Backpacking with a 2 piece tube can be hell.  Unless of course you like getting snagged by every piece of greenery within 10 feet. —

Well, IMHO, pack rods are great when you want to put them on your pack and get them out of the way, BUT two piece tubes can come in handy.  I coat the bottom (about a foot) with Shoe Goo or Plastic Dip.  Then I use the tube for a walking stick.  I had one of those babies save me from slipping on a rock in a stream with a FULL pack. Anyway, I think you should list the pros an cons of each, and then decide which one would best fit your needs. -Paul *                       *    "To catch a river unguarded is less a        * * Paul "Cousin" Graham   *    matter of where to look than of when, and   * *                          *  I have a secret time."-Ted Leeson           *

Response: