Question:

Mark Rey, long time timber lobbyist is in charge of our forests, and starting  to work on weakening all logging laws: Former Timber corporation lobbyist now head of our national forests: http://www.missoulian.com/archives/index.inn?loc=detail&doc=/2002/Jun… A natural split with Bush- many longtime  conservative EPA officials are quitting: http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/la-000039065jun03.story Lawmakers offer bi-partisan protection for national forests: http://ens-news.com/ens/jun2002/2002-06-05-07.asp Congress recognizes the voice of the American  people, offers bill and recognizes the 2 million  public comments favoring roadless protection, concedes  60 percent of republicans favor roadless protection as well: http://www.enn.com/news/wire-stories/2002/06/06062002/reu_47454.asp Congress, industry recognize the vast  majority of american citizens favor protecting our last wild and unroaded forests: http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/73893_pot08.shtml — Sent by sonvolt55  from  hotmail subpart from com This is a spam protected message. Please answer with reference header. Posted via http://www.usenet-replayer.com/cgi/content/new

Response:

Garbage deleted I think I will go cut down some trees tomorrow in honor of this crossposting tree hugging idiot.

Response:

Garbage deleted I think I will go cut down some trees tomorrow in honor of this crossposting tree hugging idiot.

It doesn’t count unless it lands on an endangered species…

Response:

Garbage deleted I think I will go cut down some trees tomorrow in honor of this crossposting tree hugging idiot. It doesn’t count unless it lands on an endangered species…

Careful Tripper; a glance at your medical records suggests YOU are on the list.     Wolfgang

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Garbage deleted I think I will go cut down some trees tomorrow in honor of this crossposting tree hugging idiot. It doesn’t count unless it lands on an endangered species… Careful Tripper; a glance at your medical records suggests YOU are on the list.     Wolfgang

No doubt I’d be fatally injured before I even got in range of mr. bob’s felling… /daytripper (the hits just keep on coming

Response:

"\ I think I will go cut down some trees tomorrow in honor of this crossposting tree hugging idiot.\

I cut some trees down  today. Nothing like some responsible land management.  By the way, Muskie does hunt, fish and cut down trees. He isn’t the granola hippie  some would think. More like a sportsman with brains.

Response:

"\ I think I will go cut down some trees tomorrow in honor of this crossposting tree hugging idiot.\ I cut some trees down  today. Nothing like some responsible land management.  By the way, Muskie does hunt, fish and cut down trees.

If it was nothing like responsible land management, why did you do it? He isn’t the granola hippie  some would think. More like a sportsman with brains.

More like a ten year old, with no friends, and a ghetto blaster.

Response:

I cut some trees down  today. Nothing like some responsible land management.  By the way, Muskie does hunt, fish and cut down trees. He isn’t the granola hippie  some would think. More like a sportsman with brains.

SPLORK! The musk thang is an obnoxious jerk who gets his kicks out of baiting anyone who might disagree with him with his outrageous headers. He is totally opposed to any requests to limit or curtail his off topic behavoir. He regularly morphs his nick to get around the filters of those who attempt to ignore him, and he hides behind free posting services and conceals his email because his behavior violates most ISP’s terms. He has lost a couple of accounts in the past due to the volume of complaints regarding his behavior. I could care less if he’s a hunter, a fisherman or a cross dressing dwarf, he’s still an annoying insect. If he had brains, he’d be more considerate of those who don’t want to see his posts instead of using periodic nick morphing to get around our filters. Flyfish

Response:

\More like a ten year old, with no friends, and a ghetto blaster.\  I have had the pleasure of fishing with Muskie on several occasions, twice on the San Juan and once on the Kootenai. He has a gorgeous blonde girlfriend(ive never seen so many stares in my direction thanks to walking with her on several occasions), a nice ride and an even nicer selection of fly rods. Perhaps you are jealous of that? He is a positive, hopeful person  and people seem to gravitate to him. He, like I also have the glorious choices of fishing in a still unspoiled setting, which is something you don’t have Mike. Perhaps if someone in Europe had spoken up and made noise a long time ago the fishing and habitat wouldnt be so poor now, and the choices so few.

Response:

Musty Ass has spoken.

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\More like a ten year old, with no friends, and a ghetto blaster.\  I have had the pleasure of fishing with Muskie on several occasions, twice on the San Juan and once on the Kootenai.

I could not care less about his girlfriend or his fly-rods. The only thing I care about, is the fact that he costs me money with his constant Usenet abuse. The problem is solved for me at least. I have unsubscribed from rec.outdoors.fishing.fly  as it is simply too expensive to download all the rubbish. I will occasionally have a look in, using Google ( where I don

Question:

Do not learn to cast. Very bad. Too much like work. Learn to draw pretty pictures. ….take a deep breath, assume the lotus position and let your mind begin to wander and then to wonder…if necessary, use the ancient relics and the secret blend of herbs to attain a sated state of complete relaxation… While sitting…grasp the rod. Hold it. Feel it. Become one with it. …. Learn how to gently coax line from the tip. Learn to move the line to different places. Use as little motion as possible in order to not molest or in any way raise your pulse rate. Your breathing should become deeper and slower as you bond with your rod. Start off with small strokes. Gently teasing and calling….calling…. Learn, seek the way to keep the line in the air…..slowly….how to keep it in the air with the least energy expenditure…..can you make it straight.? Can you, with a flick of the wrist, a flex of your forearm, make the line go straight out in front of you?  Can you make it then go straight out in back of you? Can you keep the ess curves out of your line? Can you keep the line flat and straight, curving only to change from forwards to backwards?  Can you feel the line so softly and tenderly tugging and pulling – yearning to be free of the rod and thus of it’s master? repeat……this is my rod. There are many like it, but this one is mine…… john

Response:

asadi wrote… repeat……this is my rod. There are many like it, but this one is mine……

My rod is my best friend, it is my life.  I must master it as I must master my life.  Without me my rod is useless, without my rod I am useless.  I must cast my rod true.  I must cast better than my friend who is trying to outfish me.  I must catch fish before he outfishes me.  I will.   Before God I swear this creed.  My rod and myself are defenders of our rivers.  We are the masters of the trout.  We are the saviors of fish.   So be it.  Until there are no fishless days but catching.   Amen. — Warren (amazed at how memories from 10+ years ago can flood your mind as fresh as if the events just happened….) PS – This is my rod and this is my gun.  This is for fishing, this is for fun….. Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt

Response:

Do not learn to cast. Very bad. Too much like work. Learn to draw pretty pictures. …

        (etherial wisdom snipped) john

        i knew it would only be a matter of time before you got these techhies on the right path, john.         it must be tough being the only bodhisattva on roff. your friend in the old north state wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

… the secret blend of herbs to attain a sated state of complete relaxation…

Yeah, that’s the part I like about fishing with you, John. I just gotta remember to tie on the fly BEFORE I toke the secret herb. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Hello asadi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do not learn to cast. Very bad. Too much like work. Learn to draw pretty pictures. ….take a deep breath, assume the lotus position and let your mind begin to wander and then to wonder…if necessary, use the ancient relics and the secret blend of herbs to attain a sated state of complete relaxation… While sitting…grasp the rod. Hold it. Feel it. Become one with it. …. Learn how to gently coax line from the tip. Learn to move the line to different places. Use as little motion as possible in order to not molest or in any way raise your pulse rate. Your breathing should become deeper and slower as you bond with your rod. Start off with small strokes. Gently teasing and calling….calling…. Learn, seek the way to keep the line in the air…..slowly….how to keep it in the air with the least energy expenditure…..can you make it straight.? Can you, with a flick of the wrist, a flex of your forearm, make the line go straight out in front of you?  Can you make it then go straight out in back of you? Can you keep the ess curves out of your line? Can you keep the line flat and straight, curving only to change from forwards to backwards?  Can you feel the line so softly and tenderly tugging and pulling – yearning to be free of the rod and thus of it’s master? repeat……this is my rod. There are many like it, but this one is mine…… john

Never had a dirty phone call and this is my first erotic newsgroup post……or did I just read it wrong <G May your Yin and Yang be in harmony always, and your Ch’i flow freely. — Don’t Worry, Be Happy! IRC Sandyb in #Rabble uk3.arcnet.vapor.com port:6667 Sandy (http://www.ftscotland.co.uk)   (Replace noway with sandy to email)

Response:

asadi [held it in a *real* long time then] posted…. Learn, seek the way to keep the line in the air

yes…young grasshooker …..slowly….how to keep it in the air with the least energy

expenditure….. yes…i can see it now…master bong lit can you make it straight.?

yes…ho wang…but for the fleeting flap of a single gnats nad… Can you, with a flick of the wrist, a flex of your forearm, make the line go straight out in front of you?

yes…huk lo…but then it will stay there forever (sometimes even with a mighty samurai pull) Can you make it then go straight out in back of you?

yes…far flung…I think I am ready…can I try to snatch the splitshot from your palm ? Can you keep the ess curves out of your line?

yes…but I can’t keep the fuk ng knots from my 5x… — The Halfordian Golfer

Response:

 Very bad. Too much like work. Some days it does feel that way.  Feel it. Become one with it. …. When I bring to mind my favorite places, most of them are places that for some reason or another, are more likely to give me one of those special days. On these days, "you" can get lost in the experience and all is right with the world. I’ve only had these sort of days when I was fishing alone. When I bring other people to these places, the trips are often disappointing because their "specialness" isn’t because of exceptional fish catching. Willi PS Before I once again get accused of not having a sense of humor, I DID see the humor in John’s post.

Response:

Question:

Dear Sir,  Do you realize they have Lithium and Prozac among many other medications that can help with this problem?  Please walk, err RUN to your closest Dr. of Psychiatry and get some help!  The twitch and voices in my head were removed, I’m sure your voices can be put down as well….:) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We would like anyone in ROFF who does not wish to receive posts to their  private e-mail address to notify us who they may be so we may make a log.   Everyone  is considered operational unless we are notified otherwise in the next ten days.  This is a legal notice.

Response:

Legal notice to George Gehrke: Go fuck yourself for 10 days and get back on your meds. Any emails from you to my address will be considered harassment, and will result in a shitstorm of incredible magnitude raining down upon you. Yours truly, Bob Smith

Response:

Two years ago, many on roff gave us the challenge and after two years, we were able to come up with a fly rod for under the challenged price.

You lying old sack of puss. Two years ago the challenge was to produce a production bamboo fly rod for $300. Not a fly rod KIT, a fly rod, a fishable upon receipt fly rod for $300. You didn’t do it. You failed. So now you think you can change what the challenge was to this new twist of producing a "roll your own" kit rod for $300 or less. You are such a fucking moron George. Do you really thing everybody here who’s had to live with your crap for the last two years will buy this new story from you. God, you are a miserable excuse for a human being. KMA, Bob

Response:

Dear Sir,  Do you realize they have Lithium and Prozac among many other medications that can help with this problem?  Please walk, err RUN to your closest Dr. of Psychiatry and get some help!  The twitch and voices in my head were removed, I’m sure your voices can be put down as well….:)

What, you would deprive Mr. Gehrke of ALL human intercourse?  For shame sir! Wolfgang

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <More lunacy snipped I would seriously advise anybody even considering posting an e-mail to this person, for whatever reason, to be extremely careful.  There is no telling where your address might end up. The person is obviously unbalanced, and in need of treatment. While this is unfortunate, it will not save anybody involved from the possibly unfortunate consequences, and probable misery involved. Yes, exactly.  Why anyone would feel obliged to respond to what is essentially a threat is beyond me.  Best to just let it be.  If you receive spam as a result of your participation on ROFF, simply deal with it as you would any other spam, by contacting the ISP of the offending party. JR

or check the law.  washington state has pretty strict laws on unsolicited e-mail… don’t know the specifics, but if he spammed me via e-mail i might just have to look into it. chris

Response:

You lousy son-of-a-bitch. Unsolicited commercial e-mail of any kind will result in a complaint(s) to your ISP(s). It’s bad enough that I have to wade through your SPAM on ROFF.  It’s illegal and against all of the Usenet rules I’m aware of, both formal and informal. Now you want to start sending me SPAM directly? As the high and mighty judge of all things ethical and moral, you should know better than to try and pull some stunt like this one. How about this: You make a one-time SPAM posting to alert all interested ROFFians (there might even be three or four of them) that if they would like to recieve e-mails from you that they can go to your website and subscribe to your mailing list.  I’m sure that the response would be overwhelming. Legal Notice.  Ha!  What you are contemplating is definitely illegal.  You should fire your attorney, George, and so should your ISP if they truly believe that an illegal post to a public newsgroup constitutes any sort of ‘legal notice’. George, you need help.  Mental help, legal help, and then some.  Perhaps an in-patient program might suit you better than the current out-patient one that continues to allow you to embarrass yourself in front of God and everybody. Here’s my legal notice, Mr. Gehrke, DO NOT EVER SEND ME ANY COMMERCIAL E-MAIL. Tom G constantly amazed

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We would like anyone in ROFF who does not wish to receive posts to their  private e-mail address to notify us who they may be so we may make a log.   Everyone  is considered operational unless we are notified otherwise in the next ten days.  This is a legal notice. Our company and web site is available for any technical questions regarding fly fishing.  Our chat site will become active under a new provider who honors any commercial comments as long as they are posted in chat sites and/or talk groups like Roff.  This new change will prevent problems regarding fly fishing content and values that are posted in the best interests of the industry and individuals world wide who ARE interested in certain commercial aspects regarding FLYFISHING Finally, THIS COMPUTER is a business computer and every man, woman or child in the world may post to this E-Mail Address which may include questions, comments, orders, and requests.  This  open door policy for free speech includes everyone.  Anyone wishing to talk with us over an extended period of time may do so on http://www.gink.com/chat/index.html starting 7 PM evenings. Bad manners, name calling, or bad language will not tolerated at: http://www.gink.com/chat/index.html starting up again after a long absence for operations and plant construction and expansion. Anyone who has any questions should email us.  The new e-mail site is Please make a note of it. Thank you, COMMENTS TO GEORGE AT THIS EMAIL ADDRESS FROM NOW ON.

Response:

We would like anyone in ROFF who does not wish to receive posts to their  private e-mail address to notify us who they may be so we may make a log.   Everyone  is considered operational unless we are notified otherwise in the next ten days.  This is a legal notice.

I can’t f*&%#$% belive this bullshit. You want me to email you to tell you I’m not interested in your new line. I’ve got a better idea I’ll save this tread and send it to your ISP along with a couple of responces to other threads and let them deside. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Our company and web site is available for any technical questions regarding fly fishing.  Our chat site will become active under a new provider who honors any commercial comments as long as they are posted in chat sites and/or talk groups like Roff.  This new change will prevent problems regarding fly fishing content and values that are posted in the best interests of the industry and individuals world wide who ARE interested in certain commercial aspects regarding FLYFISHING Finally, THIS COMPUTER is a business computer and every man, woman or child in the world may post to this E-Mail Address which may include questions, comments, orders, and requests.  This  open door policy for free speech includes everyone.  Anyone wishing to talk with us over an extended period of time may do so on http://www.gink.com/chat/index.html starting 7 PM evenings. Bad manners, name calling, or bad language will not tolerated at: http://www.gink.com/chat/index.html starting up again after a long absence for operations and plant construction and expansion. Anyone who has any questions should email us.  The new e-mail site is Please make a note of it. Thank you, COMMENTS TO GEORGE AT THIS EMAIL ADDRESS FROM NOW ON.

Response:

You lousy son-of-a-bitch. …

Amazing how the Village Idiot manages to self-destruct every so often. Quite convenient really, it’ll be awhile before anyone has to explain to indignant newbies why the old fool is so despised on ROFF. Hey Zimbo, here’s another classic for ginkstinks.org. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Georgie,    Send nothing.  This is official notice.    Send nothing. Chas – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – George,    If I read this right, you’re claiming that you intend to SPAM us all in ten days if we don’t request that you not do that.  I believe that the insertion of "nospam" in my return address is sufficient notice that I don’t want any unsolicited email.  Others who use their address untampered are already accustomed to SPAM and probably want it.   If you do start a SPAM campaign, I’m sure you’ll incur further wrath here, and I suspect some might launch a SPAM campaign of their own.  I wouldn’t participate in that sort of thing. By no means will I be spamming you.  If I write you at your private e-mail address it will never have spam in it Charlie.  For you or anyone.  I don’t do that sort of thing.  I did it once by mistake and boy, never again.  What I’m saying is you’re welcome to always write me as long there is no spam involved either way, okay? No, I am not claiming that in ten days there will be spam from us.  Yet, what some regard as spam is not. Our new Provider says a special report as we posted which others think is spam in a news group, is NOT.  Neither do they consider commercial comments in normal conversation in chat sites spam.  Spam is when (as far as they are concerned) when one takes a mailing list and puts out a commercial message.   That IS spam and I don’t do that. Two years ago, many on roff gave us the challenge and after two years, we were able to come up with a fly rod for under the challenged price.  We have another surprise but I’m not going to post it here.  Roffians will  have to come to our chat site tommorow and ask about it. Anyhow Chuck, to get the kept promise to the thousands of people who have been waiting, our singular web site would not reach them all as once.  Since the problems and the huge sums spent by me are in part the responsibility and doings of ROFFIANS who egged and prodded and helped and who offered their undying support, the best way to communicate that singular report after two years of effort was to post it on ROFF where it belonged.  ROFF owes me at least THAT! So, what I’m asking you now is this.  We may write to each other e-mails but we agree not to spam.  I can handle that just fine.  I don’t spam on e-mails anyhow but then again, we answer a lot of questions regarding fly fishing and products with e-mail but only when requested. Fair enough Charlie? George Gehrke Get your FREE web-based e-mail and newsgroup access at:                http://MailAndNews.com Create a new mailbox, or access your existing IMAP4 or POP3 mailbox from anywhere with just a web browser.

Response:

<SNIP P.S.  Ordinarily, (until I know for sure) I would post this response to you via e-mail Charlie because it doesn’t belong here for public review.  To me, this should be a private conversation between two reasonable men.

No way you are ever going to have such a private conversation then?   What a pity. Perhaps you will be lucky and find a discussion partner as unreasonable as yourself?  A tall order of course, but doubtless you can do it. You can do everything, you said so yourself, so it must be true. ( Awed whispers from off) ( The Mighty and Unholy Gink bows low, seeming unsure of what he knows for sure, apparently hoping against hope that somebody will jump on his shoulders, and then slithers off on his own slime trail for another we). MC

Response:

Gehrke writes: Snipped redundant remarks:

(giant snip) George, you are insane.  You need help. Dave

Response:

Providers, such as the one we just hired, will allow a commercial post in news/talk groups …

Right up until the time they lose their first upstream feed. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

George, in which legal jurisdiction is your rather dubious looking legal notice enforceable? Certainly not mine, that’s for bloody sure.   You do realise this is a world-wide forum don’t you? If I see spam from you in ROFF again, I will (again) complain to your ISP. If I see spam from you in my mail box, I will complain to your ISP. Nice sales pitch from your new provider BTW, either they are a bigger bullshit artist than you are or they are severely deluded. Steve

Response:

<silliness snipped… All work and no play makes George a dull boy. All work and no play makes George a dull boy. All work and no play makes George a dull boy. All work and no play makes George a dull boy. All work and no play makes George a dull boy. All work and no play makes George a dull boy. All work and no play makes George a dull boy. All work and no play makes George a dull boy. All work and no play makes George a dull boy. All work and no play makes George a dull boy. All work and no play makes George a dull boy…

Response:

Our new Provider says a special report as we posted which others think is spam in a news group, is NOT.  Neither do they consider commercial comments in normal conversation in chat sites spam.  Spam is when (as far as they are concerned) when one takes a mailing list and puts out a commercial message.   That IS spam and I don’t do that.

Ask them if they know what a UDP is. — Charlie…

Response:

<nonsense snipped I would never stand on your shoulders, I am quite careful at avoiding crap on my shoes. Providers can not "allow" commercial posts to newsgroups, it does not lie within their power to do so. Try sending a few, and see what happens. Strange as it may seem, and in spite of your congenital idiocy, I assumed that you would have grasped this relatively simple concept by now.  How many providers have thrown you out?   Forgotten? Oh well, ask the next couple what they think, assuming you are a customer long enough of course. The day I need an explanation of Usenet ( or anything else for that matter), from you, I will shoot myself as being no longer a viable proposition for normal existence. I don

Question:

I am looking for some new leader formulas for dry fly fishing. I want a 16-18 ft overall leader with tippit ( I use a long tippet, about 31/2 to 4 ft). I am fishing a 3 wt and 4 wt line at the present. Any suggestions? George

Response:

http://globalflyfisher.com/fishbetter/leadercalc/index.html It might take awhile to digest, but there is an interesting leader formula program in there. Regards, Jeff

Response:

Question:

Heading for RMNP area for 1 1/2-2 weeks this summer, probably mid to late July. Will be camping for part of the time maybe in or north of the park and then spending 4 days in Estes Park. Looking for advice on places to fish and places to avoid. Mostly interested in smaller streams or shallow lakes. Will be wading-no float tube-with a 7′9" 3/4 wt. Once the family is safely in the confines of a cabin or lodge I may take a solo overnight hike to a more remote lake/stream. Any advice on places and patterns will be greatly appreciated. Thanks Mark

Response:

Fished there last summer around July.  I had a great time on the Thompson and on the headwaters of the Colorado.   Usually we could fish till around 4pm before the thunder and lightning rainstorms drove us for cover.  The further you wandered away from the road, the better the fishing got. Although most fish ran 7-10", there were a few larger and some we saw, but could not get to rise in the gin-clear water, that probably went 21/2 to 3lbs.  A 3/4 short rod is a good choice.  On the west side of the park, the Colorado runs into an area that is filthy with beaver dams.  A stealthy approach to the dams brought non-stop action on brookies and cutthroats. The Estes Park Angler in Estes Park is a good source for fly fishing information.  The fish were not that picky.  However, a lime trude sizes 14-16, worked best.  We also picked up fish on elkhair caddis, yellow humpies, hoppers, and stimulators. Randall S. Davis

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Heading for RMNP area for 1 1/2-2 weeks this summer, probably mid to late July. Will be camping for part of the time maybe in or north of the park and then spending 4 days in Estes Park. Looking for advice on places to fish and places to avoid. Mostly interested in smaller streams or shallow lakes. Will be wading-no float tube-with a 7′9" 3/4 wt. Once the family is safely in the confines of a cabin or lodge I may take a solo overnight hike to a more remote lake/stream. Any advice on places and patterns will be greatly appreciated. Thanks Mark

Response:

Question:

Taxonomy of salmon is still messy, but the general agreement is as follows: Oncorhynchus: Pacific salmon = chum, chinook, pink, coho, sockey(kokanee),                                and masu (Asia).               Trout = rainbow (steelhead), cutthroat, golden.               Masu salmon (cherry salmon, or yamame) is placed into               between North America Pacific salmon and trout in phylogeny.

Do you happen to know the specific name of the cherry salmon, Naohisa? Salmo: brown trout and Atlantic salmon Salvelinus (char): lake trout, brook trout, Arctic char, Dolly Varden,                    white-spotted char (Asia), and bull trout. NK Where do grayling fit in? Mike

They belong to the same family as salmon and chars, but the genus name is Thymallus for NA fish.  I don’t know anything about he European grayling. Another question: Does anyone happen to know what an inconnu is? Dave

Response:

Thanks Kat, I realized shortly after making that quick post I was in error.  Same family, wrong genus! -Burton – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Where do grayling fit in?   Char! -burton No, grayling are grayling (genus Thymallus), not char (genus Salvelinus). However, both grayling and char are members of the family Salmonidae. and the inconnu is a big, mean whitefish (Stenodus leucicthys). Do check backwards in your threading if you can, because George Gehrke posted rather a motherlode of info about the inconnu. — K.G. (Kat) Cruickshank, ichthyophile. Toronto, Ontario, Canada. see my illustrations at http://www.mackerel.com/fish/home.html

Response:

Where do grayling fit in?   Char! -burton

No, grayling are grayling (genus Thymallus), not char (genus Salvelinus). However, both grayling and char are members of the family Salmonidae. and the inconnu is a big, mean whitefish (Stenodus leucicthys). Do check backwards in your threading if you can, because George Gehrke posted rather a motherlode of info about the inconnu. — K.G. (Kat) Cruickshank, ichthyophile. Toronto, Ontario, Canada. see my illustrations at http://www.mackerel.com/fish/home.html

Response:

The inconnu is NOT a minnow. — Gary

Response:

: The inconnu is NOT a minnow. This is indeed true. The inconnu (known as "shee" in much of Alaska, and "coney" in some areas) is a whitefish, and hence a salmonid. They do grow much larger than other whitefish species – a probable upper limit is around 80 lbs – and forage fish make up the major part of their diet. Their jaws are not underslung – in fact, the mouth does resemble that of a tarpon. It’s pretty safe to say that an inconnu bears as much resemblance to other *whitefish* as a tarpon bears to other *herring*. They are found throughout the far north, particularly in the Yukon and Mackenzie drainages. The fish spend some part of their lives in salt water, though what portion is unclear for some watersheds. I have seen native fishermen unloading netted inconnu at Ft. Resolution, NWT, which is at the mouth of the Slave River. This is about 1250 miles from salt water, so it is possible that these fish spend much, perhaps even all, of their time in Great Slave Lake. On the other hand, a fish caught well down in the Mackenzie Delta, or in some coastal river in Alaska, is probably in and out of the saltwater on a week by week basis. As with all northern fish, growth is slow and the fish live a long time. In Great Slave Lake, for example, it takes 7-10 years to produce a spawning sized lake trout (17-20 inches, 2-3 lbs) and the very large fish are figured at 1 – 1.5 years per pound. Fish having access to saltwater, including lake trout, arctic char, and (presumably) inconnu, will grow considerably faster. George’s projection that a 50# inconnu might be 150 years old is stretching it a bit, but 30-40 is indeed possible. Great care must therefore be taken when deciding to keep *any* northern fish – you can do a lot of damage in a short time. 3798 Woodland Drive     voice: (250) 368-9315 Trail, BC               data:  (250) 368-9341

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [some deleted just for the hell of it...] T-bone…. in a taxonomic class all his own. "Giganticus Dicki Brainius Coloradoensis" You got the order family ralph, but messed up on the genus and species. TimW Oh get your hand out of your pants!

You tellin’ me I can’t fly fish at work ? TimW

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Salmo: brown trout and Atlantic salmon Salvelinus (char): lake trout, brook trout, Arctic char, Dolly Varden,                    white-spotted char (Asia), and bull trout. Where do grayling fit in?

  Char! -burton

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Where do grayling fit in?

Same family as (gasp!) mountain whitefish Charlie Quinton

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [some deleted just for the hell of it...] T-bone…. in a taxonomic class all his own. "Giganticus Dicki Brainius Coloradoensis" You got the order family ralph, but messed up on the genus and species. TimW Oh get your hand out of your pants! You tellin’ me I can’t fly fish at work ? TimW

Well if it gives you a thrill… but be carefull some lithe young thing doesn’t come by to catch and kill your trouser trout!

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Philip Jones of the U.K. asks if we have grayling over here. Yes, but our Arctic grayling (Thymallus arctics) is not the same as the European grayling (T. thymallus). They’re pretty much alike, except that  our grayling has a larger, and often more colorful dorsal fin, and those I’ve caught have been generally smaller than the ones I’ve caught in Europe, especially in Sweden, Croatia, and Slovenia.         Mike Uetz’s buddies must be fishing in the vicinity of Churchill, Manitoba, because that’s about the only place you should find both grayling and searun brook trout (char). Grayling waters are all west of Hudson Bay. In the U.S., Canada has scads of ‘em, but in the Lower 48 we have only a relict population in western Montana. Michigan used to have them (and even has a town named Grayling), but they were extirpated by habitat destruction, pollution, and possibly overfishing.         My Montana grayling aficionados fish for them with size 28 Trico patterns, but in Alaska, they’ll attack almost anything, even the big spoons and Mepps spinners favored by salmon, pike, and muskie fishermen. In Europe, I have found that grayling will take a wide variety of flies, from Red Tags to hairwing salmon flies.         An odd thing: From time to time, especially in Sweden, I’ve had European grayling strike and miss repeatedly. At other times, they are as likely as Arctic grayling to nail a flie on the first strike. In Croatia and Slovenia, I found them to be extremely picky at times in Slovenia and very, very choosy in Croatia. — Gary Soucie / Writer / Editor / Editorial Consultant Traveling With Fly Rod and Reel * Home Waters: A Fly-Fishing Anthology * Soucie’s Field Guide of Fishing Facts *  Hook, Line, and Sinker: The Complete Angler’s Guide to Terminal Tackle

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Do you have grayling in N America?  They are just now coming into their own in the UK – along with the first frosts.  They are a very welcome Winter attraction whilst the salmon and trout spawn. It is said that the grayling, Thymallus Thymallus, smells of thyme and acquired the name because of this.  I have never been able to detect the smell of thyme.  Cucumber, possibly.  They are lovely fish!  Sometimes easy to catch, sometimes impossible – amazing how they always select the Red Tag from a cast of three flies! — Phil Jones

We have them but you pretty much need to go to the borreal forest area (aka a long way from where I live) to get at them.  Most guys I know have fished for them on fly in trips as a change of pace from lake trout or northern sea run brook trout. Mike

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Where do grayling fit in?

They are Thymallus which is a different genus from above ones.  In fact, they are in different sub-family, Thymallinae.  Salmon, trout, and char are in sub-family Salmoninae. Family Salmonidae has three subfamily, Salmoninae, Thymallinae, and Coregoninae (whitefishes). NK

Do you have grayling in N America?  They are just now coming into their own in the UK – along with the first frosts.  They are a very welcome Winter attraction whilst the salmon and trout spawn. It is said that the grayling, Thymallus Thymallus, smells of thyme and acquired the name because of this.  I have never been able to detect the smell of thyme.  Cucumber, possibly.  They are lovely fish!  Sometimes easy to catch, sometimes impossible – amazing how they always select the Red Tag from a cast of three flies! — Phil Jones

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Taxonomy of salmon is still messy, but the general agreement is as follows: Oncorhynchus: Pacific salmon = chum, chinook, pink, coho, sockey(kokanee),                                and masu (Asia).               Trout = rainbow (steelhead), cutthroat, golden.               Masu salmon (cherry salmon, or yamame) is placed into               between North America Pacific salmon and trout in phylogeny. Salmo: brown trout and Atlantic salmon Salvelinus (char): lake trout, brook trout, Arctic char, Dolly Varden,                    white-spotted char (Asia), and bull trout. NK

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Taxonomy of salmon is still messy, but the general agreement is as follows: Oncorhynchus: Pacific salmon = chum, chinook, pink, coho, sockey(kokanee),                                and masu (Asia).               Trout = rainbow (steelhead), cutthroat, golden.               Masu salmon (cherry salmon, or yamame) is placed into               between North America Pacific salmon and trout in phylogeny. Salmo: brown trout and Atlantic salmon Salvelinus (char): lake trout, brook trout, Arctic char, Dolly Varden,                    white-spotted char (Asia), and bull trout.

Cunnilingus humongous:  Trouser Trout,  Pants Python,  Levi Lizard TimW

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[some deleted just for the hell of it...] T-bone…. in a taxonomic class all his own. "Giganticus Dicki Brainius Coloradoensis" You got the order family ralph, but messed up on the genus and species. TimW

Oh get your hand out of your pants!

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Taxonomy of salmon is still messy, but the general agreement is as follows: Oncorhynchus: Pacific salmon = chum, chinook, pink, coho, sockey(kokanee),                                and masu (Asia).               Trout = rainbow (steelhead), cutthroat, golden.               Masu salmon (cherry salmon, or yamame) is placed into               between North America Pacific salmon and trout in phylogeny. Do you happen to know the specific name of the cherry salmon, Naohisa? Salmo: brown trout and Atlantic salmon Salvelinus (char): lake trout, brook trout, Arctic char, Dolly Varden,                    white-spotted char (Asia), and bull trout. NK Where do grayling fit in? Mike They belong to the same family as salmon and chars, but the genus name is Thymallus for NA fish.  I don’t know anything about he European grayling. Another question: Does anyone happen to know what an inconnu is? Dave

No – don’t know about inconnu (in fact, isn’t that what inconnu means – unknown?) but I know about S Salar, S Trutta and T Thymallus in the UK. Each of them is great.  Would you like me to tell you about them? — Phil Jones Turnpike evaluation. For information, see http://www.turnpike.com/

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Another question: Does anyone happen to know what an inconnu is? The inconnu, Stenodus leucichthys, is a large, predatory whitefish which lives in the Far North. It has a basic salmonlike shape, with large scales, a deeply forked tail, and a large head with a very large mouth. It migrates into rivers in June and July and spawns in the fall. It ages slowly and can weigh over 50 lbs. It is the only predatory member of the whitefish tribe found in North America. Its common name is French for "unknown". — K.G. (Kat) Cruickshank, ichthyophile. Toronto, Ontario, Canada. see my illustrations at http://www.mackerel.com/fish/home.html

Tarpon of the North"  It spends most of its feeding year in the brackish waters of bays where fresh water and salt flats mix.  The Inconnu is by far, one of the largest minnow species known to man.  Its mating cycle is not only buried in mystery, until recently as fifteen years ago when an expedition I was on made a major study of them.  Basically, it goes like this. The big females come up river such as the Kobuck River just above the Artic Circle where I fished for them with Jim Teeney, in early fall. The moon phase has to be just right.  The tidal cycle has to be just right, the temperatures have to be just right, the river sandy bottom has to be just right, and many things we yet don’t know . . . has to be just right for spawning to take place. Just finding these ‘Fish of Mystery’ was the hardest thing as they slip into long ridges of sand that run with the river but cross-wise, look like the letter ‘m’ in which at the top of the ‘m’ these fish lay in long rows in the sand valleys.  They simply, wait.  For weeks, they will wait and when the magnetic fields, the moon, the temperature, including all the wizardry that mother nature can throw at you . . . the females, burgering with roe/eggs that are rich, very small, and white hinging on white/yellow they come to the surface . . . as if trying to swim to the moon.  The females backs will come to the surface and they will start releasing eggs.  Millions of them and along with them the males eject sperm in copious amounts to mix with the now drifting eggs.  The timing has to be absolutely perfect. Now fertilized, these eggs . . . which are very sticky, start to sink down and along these long trenches of sand and they settle to the bottom.  But that isn’t the final act. The little eggs start to roll along the sand and it sticks to the eggs and sure enough, they become camoflauged and other preditory fish cannot find them anymore because these very small eggs have no smell, they become invisable, and they become somewhat buried in the sand trenches. Life, begins to take form.  It is soon enough, left alone to fend for themselves for the Tarpon of the North leave the young behind to return to the call of the salt that is in their blood.  They race for the sea! Never to return again until next fall. The food fair of the Inconnu is probably the finest of all fish that God ever put in water.  It is twice as good as walleye and the roe makes White Sturgeon Roe seem ridiculas as table fair. Inconnu is by far the richest, most tastefully wonderful roe in the world.  You literally slice it like you would cross-ways a loin.  You fry it in butter, a touch of garlic if you like and a sprinkle of parsley and lace with a smile of fine pepper and sea-salt.  You may wish to try frying in a skillet braized with a slice of bacon.  No more is needed, if anything. Your mind, will literally scream in estacy. The Shee Fish (another name for this wonderful game fish in which I set the IGFA first world record) grows slowly.  Its age at fifty pounds is well over a hundred and fifty years old.  It would be nothing for a ten pounder to be thirty five years old . . . and as table fare, against age, killing a Shee Fish is really a rather mindless thing to do these days as more and more anglers discover them.  It would take a real man to realease a large Shee Fish.  In those days, we had to keep a rare damaged fish because there where those in the party that used treble hooks (guides) who were not all fly fishermen and the Indians up around the Kobuck River don’t give a damned about anything except government dollars and if it moves, kill it or feed it to the dogs.  There is no shame in Alaska . . . yet. The Shee-Fish will give you exactly three excellent jumps that are as Tarpon-like as you could hope for and five jumps is somewhat rare but possible.  It is an exciting fish to hunt and is not a fish for every body to enjoy.  Gut-em and Eat-em is possible just once on a little one as they will average five or six pounds.  But without exception, and Inconnu that exceeds ten pounds should be released. I hope this helps in your interest in one of the greatest mysteries of the late 20th Century, until the last dozen or so years. If you go in pursuit of the Inconnu . . . go with a kind and understanding heart.  You will catch fish as old as yourself, most likely and certainly older than your children.  Life, at this pace is not food for life. Mr. G.

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Cherry salmon = Oncorhynchus masu (in older taxonomies also listed as O. rhodurus and O. biwa)         To K’s good answer on inconnu, all I will add is that some anglers refer to it as sheefish, and it’s also sometimes called conny or Eskimo tarpon. — Gary Soucie / Writer / Editor / Editorial Consultant Traveling With Fly Rod and Reel * Home Waters: A Fly-Fishing Anthology * Soucie’s Field Guide of Fishing Facts *  Hook, Line, and Sinker: The Complete Angler’s Guide to Terminal Tackle

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Do you happen to know the specific name of the cherry salmon, Naohisa?

You mean thier scientific name?  It is Oncorhynchus masou. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Salmo: brown trout and Atlantic salmon Salvelinus (char): lake trout, brook trout, Arctic char, Dolly Varden,                    white-spotted char (Asia), and bull trout. NK Where do grayling fit in? Mike They belong to the same family as salmon and chars, but the genus name is Thymallus for NA fish.  I don’t know anything about he European grayling.

Same.  Europian grayling is Thymallus thymallus. Another question: Does anyone happen to know what an inconnu is? Dave

? Naohisa

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Another question: Does anyone happen to know what an inconnu is?

The inconnu, Stenodus leucichthys, is a large, predatory whitefish   which lives in the Far North. It has a basic salmonlike shape, with large scales, a deeply forked tail, and a large head with a very large mouth. It migrates into rivers in June and July and spawns in the fall. It ages slowly and can weigh over 50 lbs. It is the only predatory member of the whitefish tribe found in North America. Its common name is French for "unknown". — K.G. (Kat) Cruickshank, ichthyophile. Toronto, Ontario, Canada. see my illustrations at http://www.mackerel.com/fish/home.html

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Taxonomy of salmon is still messy, but the general agreement is as follows: Oncorhynchus: Pacific salmon = chum, chinook, pink, coho, sockey(kokanee),                                and masu (Asia).               Trout = rainbow (steelhead), cutthroat, golden.               Masu salmon (cherry salmon, or yamame) is placed into               between North America Pacific salmon and trout in phylogeny. Salmo: brown trout and Atlantic salmon Salvelinus (char): lake trout, brook trout, Arctic char, Dolly Varden,                    white-spotted char (Asia), and bull trout. Cunnilingus humongous:  Trouser Trout,  Pants Python,  Levi Lizard TimW

T-bone…. in a taxonomic class all his own. "Giganticus Dicki Brainius Coloradoensis"

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Taxonomy of salmon is still messy, but the general agreement is as follows: Oncorhynchus: Pacific salmon = chum, chinook, pink, coho, sockey(kokanee),                                and masu (Asia).               Trout = rainbow (steelhead), cutthroat, golden.               Masu salmon (cherry salmon, or yamame) is placed into               between North America Pacific salmon and trout in phylogeny. Salmo: brown trout and Atlantic salmon Salvelinus (char): lake trout, brook trout, Arctic char, Dolly Varden,                    white-spotted char (Asia), and bull trout. NK Where do grayling fit in? Mike

They are Thymallus which is a different genus from above ones.  In fact, they are in different sub-family, Thymallinae.  Salmon, trout, and char are in sub-family Salmoninae. Family Salmonidae has three subfamily, Salmoninae, Thymallinae, and Coregoninae (whitefishes). NK

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Taxonomy of salmon is still messy, but the general agreement is as follows: Oncorhynchus: Pacific salmon = chum, chinook, pink, coho, sockey(kokanee),                                and masu (Asia).               Trout = rainbow (steelhead), cutthroat, golden.               Masu salmon (cherry salmon, or yamame) is placed into               between North America Pacific salmon and trout in phylogeny. Salmo: brown trout and Atlantic salmon Salvelinus (char): lake trout, brook trout, Arctic char, Dolly Varden,                    white-spotted char (Asia), and bull trout. NK

Where do grayling fit in? Mike

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Question:

As far as catching grayling, it may make a difference where you will be fishing. I have fished the Alaska Peninsula for grayling several times.  In those waters I have used humpies, elk hair caddis (black body), and brown drake patterns with the most success.  All flies were tied on no. 12 hooks.  The guide I was with liked the irresistable. To a lesser extent, we have taken   grayling with a Royal Coachman and have had those fish hit a deer hair mouse while fishing for rainbows. Interestingly, almost all articles I have read mention using black gnats for grayling.  For all the times I have tried these flies, I have *never* caught a grayling with one.  Consequently, I have a bunch of these that don’t seem to have a use. Always hit it like you mean it, Steve  

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Could someone recommend some patterns for arctic grayling?  I went out for them a couple of years ago and had a great time.  I want to go again this year and could use some advice on patterns and tactics.

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 Could someone recommend some patterns for arctic grayling?  I went out for  them a couple of years ago and had a great time.  I want to go again this  year and could use some advice on patterns and tactics.

We have had great success with caddis patterns, particularly Elk Hair Caddis size 12 and 14. However, the Grayling need time to come up from the bottom so give the drift a chance. They will often take the dry as it goes under at the turn. Don’t be afraid to wake the fly in short retrieves back to you.

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Could someone recommend some patterns for arctic grayling?  I went out for them a couple of years ago and had a great time.  I want to go again this year and could use some advice on patterns and tactics.

They’re not really sophisticated, especially in Alaska, the Yukon or NWT. I had one take a #2 streamer meant for pike Use a fly you can see – for dries, try the Wulff series, Humpies, or the dry version of a black gnat, all in sizes 8-14. In lakes, they like to congregate where the wind accumulates surface scum – reefs (e.g. in Great Slave) are great. For streams, just think of them as a really dumb (but beautiful) trout. One key note – on dries, they tend to rise in a corkscrew spiral (perhaps their vision is poor). They sometimes miss the fly, and have to take a second try. Don’t strike too soon. — 3798 Woodland Drive     voice: (604) 368-9315 Trail, BC               data:  (604) 368-9341

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I

Question:

I am going on a 7 day canoe trip in Quetico Prov. Park in Ontario in July. Does anyone have any information on what gear and flys to use for the smallmouth bass and pike. Thanks

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I am going on a 7 day canoe trip in Quetico Prov. Park in Ontario in July. Does anyone have any information on what gear and flys to use for the smallmouth bass and pike. Thanks

I was up there 2 years ago for a 14 day trip and what an experience!!  Although we weren’t fly fishing, several people were.  The patterns which they said were effective were assorted minnow patterns (Muddler, Sculpin) as well as a crawfish pattern.  Glo balls would probably work well from what I saw.  I was primarily spincasting and killed the smallmouth on a little floating rapala about 2 inches long.  We seemed to hit most of the bass below waterfalls.  My dad caught one that was almost 4 1/2 pounds!  Watch out for the Pike.  They chomped anything that they could catch.  You might also have fun with the walleye.  Besides, IMHO walleye taste much better than smallmouth. Let me know how it went (I’m jealous). Tom Cavitt

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – IF YOU ARE LOOKING TO FISH THE S.PLATTE RIVER NEAR DECKERS COLORADO LET ME KNOW I CAN SHOW SOME GREAT PLACES TO FISH… ALSO IF YOU NEED LODGINGS I CAN GIVE YOU A NUMBER FOR LODGING RIGHT ON THE RIVER!!!!! I will be in Denver around May 1 and have several days to fish.  Would like to fish the S. Platte, but worry about the crowds.  Which section do you recommend: the Decker’s section or Cheesman Cyn?  Would it be better to go elsewhere to avoid the crowds, e.g the Frying Pan knowing I’ll waste half a day getting there?  Are there other streams near Denver that offer good fishing and more solitude?  Would appreciate your advice.

If you’re willing to drive from Denver to Basalt (Frying Pan), you’ll cross several good rivers, and actually drive along about 100 miles of fine water.   Beyond Eisenhower Tunnel, there’s The Blue, and just over Vail Pass there’s Gore Creek and the Eagle River, just to name a few.  Crowds are less a problem the farther west you travel (until you get to the Frying Pan).  Time is the question, however.  If you’re not familiar with these areas, and you’re based in Denver, you will spend most of the day driving.

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IF YOU ARE LOOKING TO FISH THE S.PLATTE RIVER NEAR DECKERS COLORADO LET ME KNOW I CAN SHOW SOME GREAT PLACES TO FISH… ALSO IF YOU NEED LODGINGS I CAN GIVE YOU A NUMBER FOR LODGING RIGHT ON THE RIVER!!!!!

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IF YOU ARE LOOKING TO FISH THE S.PLATTE RIVER NEAR DECKERS COLORADO LET ME KNOW I CAN SHOW SOME GREAT PLACES TO FISH… ALSO IF YOU NEED LODGINGS I CAN GIVE YOU A NUMBER FOR LODGING RIGHT ON THE RIVER!!!!!

I will be in Denver around May 1 and have several days to fish.  Would like to fish the S. Platte, but worry about the crowds.  Which section do you recommend: the Decker’s section or Cheesman Cyn?  Would it be better to go elsewhere to avoid the crowds, e.g the Frying Pan knowing I’ll waste half a day getting there?  Are there other streams near Denver that offer good fishing and more solitude?  Would appreciate your advice.

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Advice is usually worth what you pay for it, but having been in Co. for 22 yrs let me share my thoughts: 1. N. Platte is not only crowded, but very tough!! Need to have a great deal of skill to walk away with a good day. 2. The Pan is great that time of year, but also can get crowded.  If your interested, give me a call and I’ll fax a map of a few little know spots on the Pan where the crowds won’t get in your way. 3. Parts of the Blue below the resv. can be good. 4. Do you want just Rivers or are you able to belly boat? 5. There are a few spots on the Roaring Fork that are good w Green Drake coming off in late May. Hope this helps…. (Dick Fischer) writes:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – IF YOU ARE LOOKING TO FISH THE S.PLATTE RIVER NEAR DECKERS COLORADO LET ME KNOW I CAN SHOW SOME GREAT PLACES TO FISH… ALSO IF YOU NEED LODGINGS I CAN GIVE YOU A NUMBER FOR LODGING RIGHT ON THE RIVER!!!!! I will be in Denver around May 1 and have several days to fish.  Would like to fish the S. Platte, but worry about the crowds.  Which section do you recommend: the Decker’s section or Cheesman Cyn?  Would it be better to go elsewhere to avoid the crowds, e.g the Frying Pan knowing I’ll waste half a day getting there?  Are there other streams near Denver that offer good fishing and more solitude?  Would appreciate your advice.

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Question:

                                                                    The thing that got me was that i read Lyman Hugh’s response, when he stated that he was always disappointed to see them on the end of the line.  My question is, if the fish fight well (which they really do), and if they aren’t too ugly (which, in my book, they’re not), then why the disappointmentR?

A)…..white fish can’t jump! B)…..they fight hard for few moments, and then poop out, perhaps        because their mouths are so small, so they run out of oxygen        faster. C)…..they’re good smoked, a delicacy, in fact. Because of their        oily flesh, they take the smoke better. (But they’re hard to        keep lit). —

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I’m pretty sure you are now talking about 2 different species of fish. The whitefish in Montana looks a lot like a grayling/sucker, relatively long and thin.  The Great Lakes whitefish, a delicacy, is a chunky, somewhat oily fish that is a high-priced restaurant meal, commercially netted.  I have caught them in the Boundary Waters Canoe Area, rising at dusk to the white may flies that come in August.  They are usually broiled with paprika, andthe fillets are delicious. Whitefish are sought after up here in Ontario. You guys don’t know what

you’re missing. They fillet great and are also stuffed/baked. They must be good ifthey are sold commeircially here but I get mine thru the ice on Simcoe andwould rank them behind crappie and walleye in terms of tastiness They – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -will also hit minnows and jigs. — Richard Park    

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Well, I ditched work for the afternoon yesterday and ventured out upon the local waters and managed to catch my first brown trout (2 of ‘em, actually — I’m a novice ffisherman).  I also caught a mountain whitefish.  I’ve caught a couple of whitefish now.  The fishing proclamation calls them gamefish here in Utah, but to my knowledge, most fishermen treat them as trash fish.

Jay, I’ve caught mountain whitefish and a couple of species of lake w’fish. They taste just fine. Despite the scales, they’re salmonids (as are grayling). The mountain species lives in substantially the same waters as trout, eats almost the same stuff, and fights quite respectably. Unfortunately, there is a perception on some waters that fish fall into one of two categories (trout & trash). Sad — 3798 Woodland Drive     voice: (604) 368-9315 Trail, BC               data:  (604) 368-9341

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inhis posting on whitefish, Jay stated The fishing proclamation calls them gamefish here in Utah, but to my knowledge, most fishermen treat them as trash fish. Does anyone know if whitefish are edible?  (Well, of *course* they’re edible, but does anybody purposely fish for them and take them home for supper?)

     Whitefish are excellent eating, and they are truly wonderful smoked, which is easy to do. There is a good article and recipe in the latest issue of Big Sky Journal. Whitefish are best eaten when caught in the colder weather months, i.e. November through April.       In addition, whitefish provide some pretty good sport to any Ffisher with an open mind. They take dry flies, love nymphs, and fight respectably. They are NOT a trash fish. The term Trash Fish usually conjures up images of fish species that take over sections of river that become either too warm or too polluted to sustain hte more desireable game fish.  Also, trash fish are often accused, either rightly or wrongly,  of having a negative impact on trout or other gamefish populations, which is certainly not the case with Whitefish.      Whitefish, require the same pristine river conditions that trout do. Chances are that a river that can no longer sustain breeding trout populations can’t sustain whitefish either. They too are an indicator species for water quality. Finally they are a member of the overall family of which trout are also members, like second or third cousins, so they cant be all bad!  I wish trout fishermen who catch them would stop throwing them on the banks to die needlessly, and either return them to the rivers or take them home and make use out of them Dale Owens

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Well, Me and my girlfriend caught a couple on accident while fishing for crappie.  We took it home, and filleted them.  We froze them and then took them out of the freezer to thaw.  The thawed for a while (we went somewhere that weekend), and when we came back, they were ruined.  They filleted real nicely and had a lot of boneless meat to them, so They would not be a problem to try them and see if they are any good.  I hear they are good smoked.  We hear about them all the time in our hunting and fishing news, they are active about the same time the other fishes are spawning (they eat eggs).  People catch them on whitefish flies (what are whitefish flies), and also with a maggot on the fly.  This did not answer the question, but had to say my piece.

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Whitefish are sought after up here in Ontario. You guys don’t know what you’re missing. They fillet great and are also stuffed/baked. They must be good if they are sold commeircially here but I get mine thru the ice on Simcoe and would rank them behind crappie and walleye in terms of tastiness They will also hit minnows and jigs. — Richard Park    

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.. would not be a problem to try them and see if they are any good.  I hear they are good smoked. …

I really like them smoked (although a lot of bones, but I don’t mind) … Peter

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Jay  Clibern writes:

"The fishing proclamation calls them gamefish here in Utah, but to my knowledge, most fishermen treat them as trash fish. Does anyone know if whitefish are edible?  (Well, of *course* they’re edible, but does anybody purposely fish for them and take them home for supper?)" Jay – As ugly as they are, they are edible – smoked is the only way that I know of.  I can’t say I am a big fan, but lots of folks like them.  If you fish around Ennis, MT on the Madison, you can take 4 or 5 (or fewer) whitefish into the Resvedts Meat market, give them a fish and a dollar for each fish, and they will give you an already smoked whitefish. A big surprise to me is the fact that the whitefish is part of the trout family.  Hard to believe.  I don’t like whitefish (could you tell?), and to me nothing is as frustration as thinking you ahve a big trout on the line only to see that slimey rubber lipped head appear.  But that’s ony one man’s opinion. Lyman Hughes Ennis, MT Dallas, TX                                               Dallas, TX                                               Ennis, MT

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The round whitefish is another Great Lakes species. Locally they are called "Menominee." I catch them off Michigan piers in October to freeze up. In 1994 I fished as late as after Christmas. They bite on a single poached salmon egg on the bottom. They are timid biters and the real trick is to know when they are after the bait. My family considers them delicious. Incidently, nobody fishes for them on the Wisconsin side of the lake. Wisconsin comercial fishermen net them but I’ve never seen anyone fishing for them in the Michigan manner.

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you are correct about the Lake witefishes.  But the mountain whitefish of the Rockies and the Truckee drainage in California/Nevada ( The answer to a trivia question about distribution of Western Salomids before coming of the european )  are a completely different case then the  whitefish of the Great Lakes.        The Mountain Whitefish, otherwise Known as Salmo ( as they are a salmonid )  Carpi, have been extending their range.  It seams that with all the "progress"  and the wonderful benefit that strip mining brings to the landscape and the stream.  That the Mountain Whitefish is able to withstand the rapid changes in its environment, better then the trout.

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I think that all the answers to the original note follow pretty much what I have read and heard about Whitefish.  I have just one other thought.  I am a catch-and-releaser, mainly because I really don’t like trout that much.  But that’s another story.  I have caught a zillion whitefish in Montana and Wyoming and I can truly say that in most cases I didn’t know they were whitefish until I got them up close in the stream.  That says that they gave me the fight I was looking for and if you don’t keep the fish, what difference does it make if it isn’t a trout but gives you pleasure in catching it?  I’ll have to admit I’m always a little disappointed when I see it’s not a trout since I came to catch trout.  But – accept the fun of the catch and the fight and enjoy the experience. John B. in Mpls..

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Re: white fish-Not to rehash other wf remarks, but … they do fight well and taste great! Have caught them in Madison fried them for breakfast and grilled them. Meat is white and chunky. I caught 16 last year on dry files in about 30 minutes. Way to tell if guy down stream has a wf, the rod tip will jiggle up and down and trout have more steady bend. I got ‘em, turned away from crowd to release them, still in water and everyone thought I was catching trout!!! Was fun.

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