Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –      I’m loking to purchase a new or used outboard but need opinions on them. My cheap ass partner does not want to spring for the new 4 stroke models so were considering the alternatives. I understand that we should probably stay away from carbureators (Johnson) and that honda/merc/yamaha and others are all decent.       I need to know about repair histories, and general levels of satisfaction from boaters and not dealers and sellers that might be biased. I’m in NYC and plan to use my 17 foot for inside fishing and waterskiing so I’m looking for a 90 hp or larger (i guess). Any useful feedback? –Eugene

Response:

     I’m loking to purchase a new or used outboard but need opinions on them. My cheap ass partner does not want to spring for the new 4 stroke models so were considering the alternatives. I understand that we should probably stay away from carbureators (Johnson) and that honda/merc/yamaha and others are all decent.       I need to know about repair histories, and general levels of satisfaction from boaters and not dealers and sellers that might be biased. I’m in NYC and plan to use my 17 foot for inside fishing and waterskiing so I’m looking for a 90 hp or larger (i guess). Any useful feedback? –Eugene

Before you discount "carburated" engines, I have 2 old Johnsons and 3 old Evinrudes that run like Rolex watches.  The new engines have their strong points, but I’ll take my old geezers.  I’ve never had to paddle home. noah

Response:

     I’m loking to purchase a new or used outboard but need opinions on them. My cheap ass partner does not want to spring for the new 4 stroke models so were considering the alternatives. I understand that we should probably stay away from carbureators (Johnson) and that honda/merc/yamaha and others are all decent.

Unless you’re an outboard mechanic trying to make a living, what’s so bad about carbs?  A little less fuel and power efficient, a LOT more reliable. Dan — Mustangs don’t count as sports cars. They’re pacifiers for NASCAR driver wannabes who couldn’t afford anything reasonable.                 — Ryan Micallef

Response:

Yamaha 115hp FI  4 stroke. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –      I’m loking to purchase a new or used outboard but need opinions on them. My cheap ass partner does not want to spring for the new 4 stroke models so were considering the alternatives. I understand that we should probably stay away from carbureators (Johnson) and that honda/merc/yamaha and others are all decent.       I need to know about repair histories, and general levels of satisfaction from boaters and not dealers and sellers that might be biased. I’m in NYC and plan to use my 17 foot for inside fishing and waterskiing so I’m looking for a 90 hp or larger (i guess). Any useful feedback? –Eugene

Response:

Question:

Good post snipped. I’m definitely no streamer expert but many writers have commented that the eyes on a streamer are a trigger for the fish. Gary LaFontaine even ties a streamer with the eyes at the rear of the fly (near the hook bend) to help eliminate all the missed strikes. Willi

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Good post snipped. I’m definitely no streamer expert but many writers have commented that the eyes on a streamer are a trigger for the fish. Gary LaFontaine even ties a streamer with the eyes at the rear of the fly (near the hook bend) to help eliminate all the missed strikes. Willi

That’s the reason for the Sedge Hook Perch.  Instead of moving the eyes back, I’m moving the hook point forward. Peter

Response:

The first Sedge Hook Perch is on ABPF.  Not a great first effort and I wasn’t able to get any olive cafltail – used bucktail instead so the profile is not what I hoped, but you can get the idea.  Vertical bars are done with black magic marker. Peter

Response:

<< There are some designs that put the hook much closer to the head of the streamer. Gartside does it with his marabou soft hackles, others as well use shorter shank hooks with streamer materials extending far past bend. This could be done, I suppose, as long as the materials don’t foul around the gape of hook. <<  Tom Littleton This is one of the virtues of the Lefty’s Deceiver and Kreh and Clouser’s Half & Half.  Lefty Kreh also writes that big fish are head hunters. GKT

Response:

<< There are some designs that put the hook much closer to the head of the streamer. Gartside does it with his marabou soft hackles, others as well use shorter shank hooks with streamer materials extending far past bend. This could be done, I suppose, as long as the materials don’t foul around the gape of hook. <<  Tom Littleton This is one of the virtues of the Lefty’s Deceiver and Kreh and Clouser’s Half & Half.  Lefty Kreh also writes that big fish are head hunters. GKT

Saltwater patterns have used this approach for years as the fish are known headhunters, but apart from clousers, there aren’t many freshwater versions.  Though I didn’t start out the Sedge Hook Perch with a particular saltwater fly in mind, it certainly did end up resembling one.   Since I can’t make much use of it till next year, if anybody would like to try a couple, email me your snail mail and I’ll send them off. In return, you have to post your results. Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Peter, That is a good looking fly you posted on ABPF. I wish more people would post flies on ABPF. Reading a description of a fly just doesn’t cut it. I think the streamer tied on a short shanked hook has a better "look" and it probably would have better action. What do you use for eyes? Willi

Response:

: That is a good looking fly you posted on ABPF. I wish more people would : post flies on ABPF. Reading a description of a fly just doesn’t cut it. Many, maybe even most, of us don’t get ABPF… JonCook.

Here ya go Jon. http://www.ezflyfish.com/perstreamfly.html Peter has graciously allowed for this information to be posted at ez. Thanks Peter…. –Walt — Walter G. Winter Ezflyfish.com:  http://www.ezflyfish.com Blue Ridge Book Gallery: http://users.boone.net/wgw/brbg.html

Response:

Peter, That is a good looking fly you posted on ABPF. I wish more people would post flies on ABPF. Reading a description of a fly just doesn’t cut it. I think the streamer tied on a short shanked hook has a better "look" and it probably would have better action. What do you use for eyes? Willi

They’re on a peel and stick sheet.  I cover them with flex cement afterward or they’d just drop off. Peter

Response:

: That is a good looking fly you posted on ABPF. I wish more people would : post flies on ABPF. Reading a description of a fly just doesn’t cut it. Many, maybe even most, of us don’t get ABPF…

So ask your university sysop to add it. ‘Tain’t no big thang… /daytripper

Response:

Many, maybe even most, of us don’t get ABPF… So ask your university sysop to add it. ‘Tain’t no big thang…

Spoken like a man who’s never been a university sysop. — Ken Fortenberry- never got ABPF

Response:

Many, maybe even most, of us don’t get ABPF… So ask your university sysop to add it. ‘Tain’t no big thang… Spoken like a man who’s never been a university sysop.

Well, true, I was never a sysop in college, and my college days preceded Usenet anyway (360/20 programmer "back in the days" when real computers ran on air)… But the "no big thang" was referring to the *asking*. As we both know the actual *doing* is trivial…even for a university sysop. /daytripper (Even those that call central Illinois "Home" ;^)

Response:

Well, true, I was never a sysop in college, and my college days preceded Usenet anyway (360/20 programmer "back in the days" when real computers ran on air)…

Ah yes, those were the days. We had one of the few 360/44’s, kind of a RISC precursor I suppose, without the complete instruction set so math operations were faster. We had a 1620 prior to that and a ‘hands on’ 1130 w/8K RAM<g. — Charlie…

Response:

http://www.ezflyfish.com/perstreamfly.html

Do most of you who post pics of flies use digital cameras?  If so, do they have built-in macros or did you have to do something else to get close-up shots? Mu

Response:

http://www.ezflyfish.com/perstreamfly.html Do most of you who post pics of flies use digital cameras?  If so, do they have built-in macros or did you have to do something else to get close-up shots?

"long"? I use an Oly C2020Z which has built-in macro capability. However, I usually top the lens off with a macro multiplier (I have a 2X and a 4X) to really fill the frame and make the most of the CCD (rather than crop down the shot and lose pixels). I think I can speak for "Vern" and Paul G wrt your questions: they both shoot using C2020Z’s , but I’m pretty sure they haven’t bought the macro multipliers yet. My matched brace of Nikkormats, an F5, and a Minolta (all SLRs) are all feeling very lonely and neglected these days… /daytripper ("Totally Digital"  ;^)

Response:

http://www.ezflyfish.com/perstreamfly.html Do most of you who post pics of flies use digital cameras?  If so, do they have built-in macros or did you have to do something else to get close-up shots? Mu

I just stick ‘em in my scanner, squish the buggers then crop ‘em. Looks like hell but people know they’re flies. Peter the always helpful

Response:

Olympus 2020, does macros just fine without any add on’s Vern – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – http://www.ezflyfish.com/perstreamfly.html Do most of you who post pics of flies use digital cameras?  If so, do they have built-in macros or did you have to do something else to get close-up shots? Mu

Response:

http://www.ezflyfish.com/perstreamfly.html Do most of you who post pics of flies use digital cameras?  If so, do they have built-in macros or did you have to do something else to get close-up shots? Mu

Mu, while I haven’t taken any photos of flies yet, I have taken a ton of pics of small desert flowers.   Some of them will fit on a dime with a lot  room left over.  The decision to use macro is a personal one depending on how you want the subject to look.  I can get the lens to within about 1/4 inch without macro.  I advise a tripod for macro and telephoto.   Camera?  Sony Mavica FD-91.  Macro ability plus a bunch more including interchangable lenses and filters. http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonyfd91/  Lemme know and I can send some examples. — All fishermen are liars ‘cept you n me, and I’m starting to have doubts about you! www.fishticker.com

Response:

My matched brace of Nikkormats,

        tripper:  what flavor nikkormat do you have?  are you interested in getting shut of one of them? wayno the digital anti-christ

Response:

The mystery has finally been solved – and on the last day of the season.  Anyway  . .

Great report snipped for brevity. Peter, Very interesting info. Some observations from fishing for Lake Trout and Landlocks in a stillwater that mesh with your obsrvations: About thirty five years ago, I spent some time fishing for Lakers and Landlocks in the local reservoir. The hot method at the time was still or drift fishing with large shiners for bait. the predominant forage fish were Smelt and Yellow Perch. I had a number of hits, but very few hookups the first few times out, and often, when I got a hit, the bait would still be on the hook, dazed but alive. I mentioned this to a local guy who had been catching a lot of fish, and he told me it was very important not to set the hook at the strike, but to wait until the fish began to run with the bait. He said that Lakers and Landlocks often made a pass  and struck a baitfish, and then turned and picked it up. Once I started following his advice I began taking Lakers in the four to six pound range, and Landlocks in the two to four pound range regularly. Seems to be quite similar to your experience with the Browns. Funny thing is that I have also caught Lakers and Landlocks using streamers in the river that drains the reservoir, (they escape over the spillway in high water), and they don’t exhibit the same behavior there. They just grab the streamer and turn. Go figure.{:-) George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

Response:

The mystery has finally been solved – and on the last day of the season.  Anyway  . . Last week I post up some stuff about streamer fishing for browns on the Grand and having something like 50 hits and only landing about half-a-dozen.  I had been using a green ghost which is a bit perch-like and perch have been getting washed through the dam into the river during high water periods.  So I tied up two perch flies, one based on a 1/0 Rangley hook (I posted the recipe here and on ROFFT and the image on ABPF), the other on a 4X #6 Diiachi.  The 1/0 used float foam to give it some buoyancy while the other had a small strip of lead added. To try and bring some order to the process, I decided to track all happenings over one hour starting at 2:30 pm.  I had decided to use the #6 for half an hour and then the 1/0 but events overtook that plan. At the access point, a small island divides the channel creating a smallish pool and seam on the south side and a chute emptying into a larger, slower pool on the north side.  Everyone tromps through the southside pool so I never expect much there; one fish at best.  Right at the water’s edge, I begin fishing the #6, casting directly across current and stripping back in a "U".  Within ten minutes I have six hits and three landed – but here’s where the interesting shit happens. One fish has taken the #6 perch directly from the rear and hooked up mid lower jaw.  The other two were foul hooked in the face above the upper jaw.  The direction of the hookup indicates that they turned on the fly and hit it broadside while facing downstream.  They were hooked up on the far side of their face, indicating that they had aimed for the head of the fly.  It all made sense.  Perch are a spiny rayed fish so trout must have ingrained behaviour to aim for the head so that they can swallow head first and smooth down the dorsal spines. This explains why I had so many misses and lost fish last week. Here’s all the poop: Recorded results for one hour. Presentation was directly across stream with a "U" retrieve and a 3" to 4" strip.  (a slower presentation than last week – 12" strip) Total casts – 100 to 120 Total hits – 21 Total hooked – 12 Total landed – 9 Total lost -3 Total foul hooked – 5 (4 in the face and 1 behind the head) Average size of fish – 9" Results by fly:         # 6  Perch – 6 hits, 3 hooked, 3 landed, 2 foul hooked         1/0 Perch – 5 hits, 0 hooked, 0 landed, 0 foul hooked         #6 g. ghost – 10 hits, 9 hooked, 6 landed, 3 foul hooked In deeper, faster water, 2 browns took the fly broadside while facing downstream and one took from the rear.  In shallower, slower water 5 of the 6 browns landed took the fly broadside facing upstream (the 6th faced down.)   After I brought my third fish to hand, I dropped it and grabbed the tippet.  The knot parted and away swam my only #6 perch.  I tied on the 1/0 and tried my luck in the slower northside pool but 5 hits only.  Crossing back to the south side of the island, I began working the tailout down about 200 yards to the end of Cedar Run with what was left of my Green Ghost.  After the end of the hour, I picked up one more small one and then hooked and landed a nice 15" brown. Unfortunately, it was also fouled; this time under the jaw.  After the 15" fish, I changed presentation to a classsic quartering downstream approach and did not get a single hit.   After changing back, I landed another small one.  After a meal break, I picked up one 16" brown on a joe’s smelt.  Once I got back on the water I tried a black nosed dace (one of Charlie’s) and a joe’s smelt to see if the browns would hit them differently.  These being representations of soft rayed fish and having obvious strike zones with their red tails, I was curious if they performed better,  Total was 6 hits, 4 hookups, 1 landed (the 16" one.)  Not really enough action to draw any conclusions. Results on first misses: – Mindful of Mike’s advice, I tried to remember to drop in some slack after a miss.  I had no results on the 1/0 despite one solid hit from a larger fish.  On the green ghost, I had one persistant small guy whack it three times in succession without a hookup and missed another small one on the second hit.  The 16" was classic.  He hit and missed, I dropped the smelt.  he did nothing, then I made one strip and he nailed it directly from the rear.  I hooked him up mid lower jaw. There’s no doubt in my mind that these browns were headhunting the perch flies.  From now on, I’ll be tying my perch flies on short shanked, heavy wire hooks (like a Mustad 3906B) or on sedge hooks that have a small, straight shank.  Too bad I won’t get to try them on the browns to the end of April 2001.  I’ll tie some up tomorrow afternoon and post a binary on ABPF. Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

addendum: Some conclusion now that I’ve had some more time to digest the results and read other peoples’ comments. The method of attack for a brown is variable and they choose their method based on prey species and relative size (them vs. the prey.) and other variables like temperature, water clarity, etc. Some conculsions: When I fish my mini streamers, I have a 40% to 50% hookup rate of which I probably land 4 out of 5.  Foul hookups are very rare and the majority of hookups are mid lower jaw with a few mid upper jaw. Corner of jaw hookups are rare.  This indicates that the browns are tail chasing the streamer and taking it on the first hit.  The missed strikes can be attributed to short takes on the fast moving, tiny streamer. A few weeks back, I foul hooked another 15" brown under the jaw when using a #4 streamer.  The pattern seems to be – small fish take from below, probably looking for a gill shot, whil the larger fish seem to take from slightly above, probably turning into the prey at the head. Not all fish are looking for a disabling shot, in the Attack-Maime-Return mode as some seem to have hookups that appear to come from an attempt to seize the prey.  If they are in the mood to strike and drop, then it’s important to have a spongy, neutral buoyant fly with a small hook to avoid jaw to steel contact.  The Sedge Hook Perch should fit this bill.  The white calftail belly and red gill slash will form a target for the smaller fish. The large head and eyes work for the larger ones.  Since the sedge hook is small and light, and the bulk of the fly is made up of semi-buoyant hair, it should react well when tension is released after a strike.   Liberal use of flex cement over the front of the fly will also aid buoyancy and provide a spongy feel to the attacking fish.  Once released, the fly should drift more naturally than a weighted or big hook fly.  As most of the profile of the fly is simply hair, then it should also move more naturally than a stiff, long shanked fly. Since my season is now closed, maybe somebody else could give this fly a shot. (off to buy some vino for SWMBO and some olive calftail so I can complete the prototype.) Peter Peter

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -What a great discussion….and some people wonder why we come here! This whole streamer thing has been puzzling me for years. Getting hits versus hookups,etc. There have been some great observations in this discussion. My feeble brain is spinning. perhaps it would be worthwhile tying up some "reversed" streamers, That is to say, streamers with the heads at the bend of the hook. How would such a streamer be fished such that the drift would look right? Angle of pull from rod would seem to give it a tailward oriented motion. There are some designs that put the hook much closer to the head of the streamer. Gartside does it with his marabou soft hackles, others as well use shorter shank hooks with streamer materials extending far past bend. This could be done, I suppose, as long as the materials don’t foul around the gape of hook. I may be trying a few ideas out as we head into the fall season here in PA and post if any intelligent thought or observation arise. Thanks again for the discussion!                            Tom Littleton

Tom Here’s the perch fly I’m planning for next year.  It can be done in any colours for any bait fish – I bet a baby brown would be perfect for PA. Sedge Hook Perch Hook – Kamasan # 8 Sedge or similar Thread – 3/0 Olive Uni-thread Tinsel – gold Flashaboo Belly – white calftail Throat – red Uni-floss Underwing – chartreuse bucktail Wing – Olive calftail Overwing – three strands of thick peacock herl Eyes – stick-on black on gold Tying instructions: All of the material will be tied on the short, straight section of the sedge hook shank.  Tie on a bed of thread.  Do not worry about building up too much bulk as we want a big head.  Tie in three strands of flashaboo doubled and trimmed to length.  Wrap thread over flashaboo to the end of the shank.  Invert hook and tie in the white calftail as a belly.  I’m using calftail instead of bucktail as it’s bulkier and stiffer, producing the deep perch profile.  Then wrap in the red floss at the rear of the shank over the calftail to a width of about 1/8".  This represents a gill flare on a frightened fish.  Then in turn, wrap in the bucktail close to the eye and the length of the shank, followed by the olive calftail then the herl.  Build up the head with thread the full length of the shank and stick on the eyes. Leave about 1/16" of the red floss showing at the back.  Then coat liberally with head cement at least to 1/8" beyond the head. Later on today when I get finished of the chores, (SWMBO is a slave driver)  I’ll tie up one and post it to ABPF. Peter

Response:

What a great discussion….and some people wonder why we come here! This whole streamer thing has been puzzling me for years. Getting hits versus hookups,etc. There have been some great observations in this discussion. My feeble brain is spinning. perhaps it would be worthwhile tying up some "reversed" streamers, That is to say, streamers with the heads at the bend of the hook.

How would such a streamer be fished such that the drift would look right? Angle of pull from rod would seem to give it a tailward oriented motion. There are some designs that put the hook much closer to the head of the streamer. Gartside does it with his marabou soft hackles, others as well use shorter shank hooks with streamer materials extending far past bend. This could be done, I suppose, as long as the materials don’t foul around the gape of hook. I may be trying a few ideas out as we head into the fall season here in PA and post if any intelligent thought or observation arise. Thanks again for the discussion!                             Tom Littleton

Response:

Great report. Thanks for the info.  Seems it could be a combination of things. Trout taking spiny rayed fish head first, and the "attack maim and wait, and then hit again" behaviour we already discussed. Bullheads are also "spiny rayed", and I already explained the behaviour of trout, in my experience,  in this case.   I assume that my original idea was correct, and the trout attack the fish to damage it, and then come back to take the fish head first,  Seems very reasonable. Just a daft idea, but perhaps it would be worthwhile tying up some "reversed" streamers, That is to say, streamers with the heads at the bend of the hook. This practice is common with lightweight pirks, they are fished "the wrong way round", the fish take on the drop, as the pirk is apparently diving head first for the bottom. I have no idea how this might sensibly be realised, but I will have a think about it. My running water season is finished for this year, so I will not have a chance to try any of this for a while, But very interesting, and food for thought. TL MC — "If you have tried everything you know, and nothing works, then perhaps it is time to accept that you don

Question:

It’s been a while since I actually went out for brookies, and I forgot how hard they hit. It was worse than a pike hitting the fly. I landed three in the range of 14-18 inches and almost lost the pole on the first one.

Yowza!  I’m a little familiar with the area and I’ve never even heard of the water you’re talking about.  Thanks for the report – I printed it off for my "files". Regards, Jeff

Response:

I just returned from a trip to Northern Ny and had a blast up there. Had a few days of good fly fishing on some small streams that are not all that popular or even that large. I started out on Plumb Brook near Degrasse, NY. I had a limited amount of luck that day. Too bright out. About the only day of sun for the two weeks I was there.Got hold of a couple of small brookies and some chub minnows. That was it. The brookies ranged from 4-9 inches but they were fun. I finally can say I got one of my own flies to catch a fish. The next day I got out was to Harrisville (my hometown) and to the Oswegatchie River. Not a lot of luck there, but the river was low for this time of year and the browns seemed really spooky this year. Saw about 40 of them, but no takers on any fly tossed at them. Next it was on to the really small streams. You know the ones…only about 1-5 feet across and usually have a couple of beaver dams around them. Well the water level here was way up and the brookies were out in force. As soon as the fly hit the water, they were out of it after it. More often than not, they missed the fly completely. I caught 40 small ones (once again 4-9 inches long) and saw a few flashes that made my mouth water. I was using a #18 willy’s pip in black with a 3/4" tail. This made them mad since they kept missing it in the water rushing over the dam. I switched to a #10 green and grizzly wooly bugger and thats when the big ones started to hit hard. It’s been a while since I actually went out for brookies, and I forgot how hard they hit. It was worse than a pike hitting the fly. I landed three in the range of 14-18 inches and almost lost the pole on the first one. Wasn’t expecting the pole to be jerked so hard. Pulling them from the hole in the dam was a trip. I thouroughly enjoyed all three hours that day. Ususally when you mention NY and fly fishing, the only places you ever hear of are the Delaware, Battenkill,  Ausable and the Salmon Rivers, but I am here to tell you that if you drive from Watertown NY up Route 3 through Harrisville, Fine, Star Lake, and farther up to Lake Placid, you should hit every little tiny creek, stream and river you see. Some of them will make the whole trip worth while. The trout you will encounter will be brookies, rainbows, and browns (some of which are in the 5-8 pound range). Try little river in Star Lake for Browns. Very large and mean. I talked with a man at the TNT tackle shop in Edwards and he told of 18-22 inch brook trout in Plumb Brook and Elm Brook. Gotta love that. Just goes to show that the most popular places aren’t always the best. Hope you get a chance to try out some of the areas in the near future. I will see some of you up there in October. Some browns and salmon with my name on them. Gonna take a first time fly fisher with me to see how he likes a 40 pound salmon on the end of a 7 wt fly rod with only a 10#  tippet. Good fishing all. The worst day on the water beats the best day in the office. Gordo

Response:

Question:

Thanks Jim! I think(?) — Tight lines and sharp hooks, Capt. Mark Poirier

Response:

Why are some people compelled to demonstrate their ignorance when they flame others? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – the first schoolies have been boiling off the beaches of the south Cape, Martha’s Vineyard and Nantucket. White clousers, deceivers — small sizes — are catching fish, some up to 28" from the Elizabeth Islands to Harwich, where a few 28" keepers have been landed already.   I don’t give a fat shit what the "law" is, but a 28" striper s NOT a keeper. Get with the program fool!!! — Tight lines and sharp hooks, Capt. Mark Poirier

Response:

28 inches is the new keeper size for recreational fishermen. The Division of Marine Fisheries ruling has been filed with the Secretary of State which puts it into effect immediately. The commercial quotas are still an issue, with a review of the bag limit due to be reheard next month.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The third season of fish reports from Reel-Time: The Internet Journal of Saltwater Fly Fishing kicks off with a new editor, David Peros, who reports the first schoolies have been boiling off the beaches of the south Cape, Martha’s Vineyard and Nantucket. White clousers, deceivers — small sizes — are catching fish, some up to 28" from the Elizabeth Islands to Harwich, where a few 28" keepers have been landed already. Get the full report at: http://www.reel-time.com/fishwire/update-fw.html   I don’t give a fat shit what the "law" is, but a 28" striper s NOT a keeper. Get with the program fool!!! — Tight lines and sharp hooks, Capt. Mark Poirier

Captain Poirier, shy man that he is, confided to me in private correspondence, that what he meant to say was that he disagreed with the taking of 28 inch stripers, as they are pre-spawn fish.  He enncourages everyone to return these fish to the water. If he is correct in calling them pre-spawn fish, I agree with  him.  We have the same situation in California with several game species.  Most responsible anglers add a few inches to the 12 inch calico bass limit, the 22 inch barracuda and halibut  limit, and the 28 inch white seabass limit.  We also return the larger fish so we don’t end up with a gene pool biased to the smaller fish. He is probably going to flame me (in e-mail) again for stepping on his toes.  The last time this gentleman (?) e-mailed me, he called me a "…sprout-eating fool…" from the left coast, and we’d never even corresponded before.  If he has a heart, it could be in the right place. Jim Kozakowski Support the United Anglers of California <http://www.webworldinc.com/unitedanglers-sc/

Response:

The third season of fish reports from Reel-Time: The Internet Journal of Saltwater Fly Fishing kicks off with a new editor, David Peros, who reports the first schoolies have been boiling off the beaches of the south Cape, Martha’s Vineyard and Nantucket. White clousers, deceivers — small sizes — are catching fish, some up to 28" from the Elizabeth Islands to Harwich, where a few 28" keepers have been landed already. Get the full report at: http://www.reel-time.com/fishwire/update-fw.html

  I don’t give a fat shit what the "law" is, but a 28" striper s NOT a keeper. Get with the program fool!!! — Tight lines and sharp hooks, Capt. Mark Poirier

Response:

The third season of fish reports from Reel-Time: The Internet Journal of Saltwater Fly Fishing kicks off with a new editor, David Peros, who reports the first schoolies have been boiling off the beaches of the south Cape, Martha’s Vineyard and Nantucket. White clousers, deceivers — small sizes — are catching fish, some up to 28" from the Elizabeth Islands to Harwich, where a few 28" keepers have been landed already. Get the full report at: http://www.reel-time.com/fishwire/update-fw.html

Response:

Question:

Howdy I’ll be moving to Sping Lake N.J. in mid Oct. from southern Alberta where I’ve become quite fond of spectacular fishing. Anyone have a suggestion of where i can continue to get my fix? My e-mail is only go until Oct.7 Thank ya all, Cheers.

Response:

As one resident said last year… the besst fly fishing in NJ is in PA and NY.  But Spring Lake in on the coast, and the other resident didn’t ply the salt.  Great runs of of blues are in the offing.  Check any of the local tackle shops.  Fresh water is mostly up north and west.  Shad and stripers run the Delaware regularly.  Trout are mostly stocked, so listen to the original advise and head to PA and the NY Catskills.  There is a NJ fishing home page, and if you can scroll back into this groups archives it’ll be listed . good luck from Long Island jg

Response:

Question:

I will be in the Utica NY area later this week and was wondering if anyone had any info on the local streams.  My time is limited while I’m there so I’m looking for easy stream access and decent fishing in a single area.  Thanks for the help. Trip — 14 Mamaroneck Ave                                phone: 914/948-6200 x7515 White Plains, NY 10601                           fax:   914/948-6270

Response:

Richard, without a doubt you will want to make a visit to the West Canada about 30 min from Utica. Rte.12 north to the Rte.8 (Poland) exit to Rte. 28, make a left on Rte.28. Go a few miles to a parking area on the right. Fish up or downstream of the bridge. Although most major hatches are over you may encounter sporadic cream variant (prior to dark) and definitely caddis (#14 tan, #18 black). There are always plenty of caddis and plenty of fish (browns). Water conditions have been excellent. Good luck and let me know how you make out.

Response:

The West Canda Creek, 15 minutes north of Utica is a blue-ribbon trout stream with a section of "artificials-only". Its a fabulous trout stream, as good as anything isn the east, but not well known outside of the Utica area. I learned to fish on the WCC when I was about 8(40 yrs ago) and spent many a summer day there with my grandfather. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly I will be in the Utica NY area later this week and was wondering if anyone had any info on the local streams.  My time is limited while I’m there so I’m looking for easy stream access and decent fishing in a single area.  Thanks for the help. Trip — **** System Management ARTS                               email:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -14 Mamaroneck Ave                            phone: 914/948-6200 x7515 White Plains, NY 10601                               fax:   914/948-6270

Response:

Question:

Gee Mike, I think we are discussing a philosophical question, not a legal one. As I live in Nashville and have never visited your fare state, I am unfamiliar with your local laws. What is flyfishing to you? Do YOU think that fishing with split shot is fly fishing? What about using running line to "cast" heavy nymphys using a fly rod and the chuck and duck method?       Sincerely, Trey

Response:

Gee Mike, I think we are discussing a philosophical question, not a legal one. As I live in Nashville and have never visited your fare state, I am unfamiliar with your local laws. What is flyfishing to you? Do YOU think that fishing with split shot is fly fishing? What about using running line to "cast" heavy nymphys using a fly rod and the chuck and duck method?       Sincerely, Trey

Unfortunately, Trey, all legal restrictions arise from philosophical discussions.  I’d bet this question involves current debate regarding who can fish where. Charley

Response:

C Unfortunately, Trey, all legal restrictions arise from philosophical C discussions.  I’d bet this question involves current debate regarding C who can fish where. C C Charley My point is, WHAT DO _YOU_ THINK? As far as I know, none of the people who wrote the law restricting the use of weight on the leader are posting here. I think the philospohical question is an interesting one, but I am more interested in lively discussion than quoting chapter and verse. For me, if you cast it on a fly rod using a fly line its fly fishing. Now, as a redneck, this may be more utilitarian and less rule bound than my northern brother and sister flyfishers. I would benefit and appreciate discussion about what we THINK not what we are told. So, whattaya think?      Trey

Response:

The point is to get the fly to where the fish are, and to enjoy the experience of using the fly.

Response:

C Unfortunately, Trey, all legal restrictions arise from philosophical C discussions.  I’d bet this question involves current debate regarding My point is, WHAT DO _YOU_ THINK? As far as I know, none of the people who wrote the law restricting the use of weight on the leader are posting here.

I suggest "philosophy" came after the fact.  In most states and provinces the earliest reason for banning weighted flies or leaders was to reduce poaching by deliberate snagging.  The rule is old in some places with salmon rivers, but has been gradually introduced in other places, notably the Great Lakes states, to wean anglers off snagging (commonly said 20 years ago to be the only possible way of landing salmon and steelhead.) When this process began about 15 years ago, fly anglers were an insignificant minority.  I.e. regulators seeking to eliminate snagging on the NY Salmon River (formerly legal) were not concerned about the fly fisherman with a twist-on half-way down his leader:  they wanted to stop the people heaving trebles pre-mounted with two ounces of lead, then available in many tackle stores. Nowadays fly fishing is increasingly common and popular — so interpreting the "no weight" rule has become important in a way no one foresaw when it first appeared in the regulations.  Only recently has "philosophy" come up. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

Response:

You’d better be careful….your post was logical, concise and made sense. That’s more than I can say about a lot of stuff I read on the ‘net. J.P. Ward Twin Willow Farm

Response:

I think this does boil down to a question of application of regulations needed for certain areas.  Here in TN, we don’t have the difficulties associated with overfishing via flyfishing in our trout streams (at least for the most part) i.e. flyfishing isn’t as popular here as it is in other parts of the country.  We have put and take streams where the wildlife resource folks expect the trout to be harvested, tailwaters that support natural reproduction but are supplemented with stocked trout, as well as wild trout streams that don’t get stocked but can be managed using slot limits, c&r, etc.  In areas that get a lot of flyfishers on the water, DNR folks most likely find it necessary to restrict the _type_ of flyfishing done in certain streams.  I suspect this is a way to appease not only the flyfishers, but bait and lure fishers as well.  On the Hiwassee, there is a quality section that while not flyfishing only, does restrict fishing to single-hook, artificial lures/flies only.  I imagine if this section’s fishing began to decline because of the number of _flyfishers_, then they would consider limiting the _type_ of flyfishing accomplished in that quality zone.   I realize this may be a vast oversimplification, but it has been my experience in some of the streams I’ve fished out-of-state, particularly those that are popular destinations with flyfishers. Jerry Cobb Nashville, TN OR

Response:

[snip] On the Hiwassee, there is a quality section that while not flyfishing only, does restrict fishing to single-hook, artificial lures/flies only.  I imagine if this section’s fishing began to decline because of the number of _flyfishers_, then they would consider limiting the _type_ of flyfishing accomplished in that quality zone.  

[snip] Jerry, In Georgia droppers and trailers are banned on single hook artificial streams.  I believe North Carolina is the same way.  How does TN define the single hook rule?  Is it per fly or per rod? Thanks, John Johnson Atlanta, GA

Response:

streams.  I believe North Carolina is the same way.  How does TN define the single hook rule?  Is it per fly or per rod? John Johnson Atlanta, GA

It varies.  In the Cherokee Wildlife Management areas, a dropper is considered legal.  I’m not sure about the Hiwassee quality zone, though I’ve been told it’s one hook per rod.  I have seen anglers fishing dropper flies through that area, but that’s no indication of the regulations, however 8-( Jerry Cobb Nashville, TN OR

Response:

Hi, In Nova Scotia it is illegal to take salmon (which are designated flyfishing only) on weighted flies, so I guess our DNR agrees with you that weighted flies are not "pure". On the other hand, get this, the rules here state "the weight can not be attached to the fly, nor extra weight added to the fly" BUT, in a discussion with a DNR rep over this very issue at a Guide’s meeting we were informed that weighted fly lines were perfectly legal, since the weight hadn’t been "added". Weird, what ? Still, I have seen lots of unweighted flies being cast upstream, ripped back and left low in an attempt to "catch"(read "jig") trout in one of our more popular ff only streams. So there you go, it’s a Bill – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi: I talked with a fly shop owner last week who was against the use of weighted flies, like a large nymph, or extreme sink tips on waters designated for fly fishing only.  He questioned, and I tend to agree, that this is not conceptually different from spin fishing with heavy jigs, weights, etc.  I’m curious how others on this group would respond to a spin fisher who points to these type of fly tackle as being equivalent to spin tackle, and that to reserve waters for fly fishing only tends to ignore the similarities in tackle. Don

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – C I talked with a fly shop owner last week who was against the use of C weighted flies, like a large nymph, or extreme sink tips on waters C designated for fly fishing only.  He questioned, and I tend to agree, Hm, I do spin fish on occasions and I don’t need room for a backcast when I do. Nore do I need to worry too much about the weight of my lure or "mending" my casts. I also don’t need to worry about my cricket coming off when I cast. I find it easier to spin cast to a specific location and can cast much farther and faster than when I fly fish. I think these and other differences clearly distinguish between fly and spin fishing. For me, fly fishing refers to how I cast my line, not to what I choose to cast. Many folks look down their nose at streamers because they are not insects. Again for me, its how, not what, I cast.      Trey Monroe

It does not matter what a person (ie – the fly shop owner) "thinks" about fly fishing.  Weighted flies, nymphs, streamers, wets, and dries are all part of the broad scheme of fly fishing.  However, there is a legal definition for fly fishing, depending upon where you are. In a CT FFO Area (Fly Fishing Only), DO NOT get caught by a warden with split shot on your line to get your trusty old streamer to the bottom.   Weight MUST be incorporated into the tying of the fly or into the construction of the line, PERIOD!  As for gear, using a fly on spinning gear IS NOT considered fly fishing, legally.  You must use a fly rod and reel to be classified as fly fishing and avoid a fine.  We have seen many folks spin fishing in an FFO area and watched (& cheered) as they paid for their indiscretion (and inability to read the signs). – Mike

Response:

Guide Service (Bill Curry)) writes: So there you go, it’s a

Amen.  

Response:

Hi: I talked with a fly shop owner last week who was against the use of weighted flies, like a large nymph, or extreme sink tips on waters designated for fly fishing only.  He questioned, and I tend to agree, that this is not conceptually different from spin fishing with heavy jigs, weights, etc.  I’m curious how others on this group would respond to a spin fisher who points to these type of fly tackle as being equivalent to spin tackle, and that to reserve waters for fly fishing only tends to ignore the similarities in tackle.

I strongly disagree! the shop owner must be a dry fly only fisherman. Too bad since stomach contents prove that fish feed mostly on nymphs all year long. The poor shop owner is missing out on lots of fly fishing fun limiting himself to hatch only days with his fly rod. bad for him but O so good for me! By the by, the first flies ever used were wet flies way back in the 1400’s and before. Hows that for "tradition"?

Response:

Hi: I talked with a fly shop owner last week who was against the use of weighted flies, like a large nymph, or extreme sink tips on waters designated for fly fishing only.  He questioned, and I tend to agree, that this is not conceptually different from spin fishing with heavy jigs, weights, etc.  I’m curious how others on this group would respond to a spin fisher who points to these type of fly tackle as being equivalent to spin tackle, and that to reserve waters for fly fishing only tends to ignore the similarities in tackle.

I would simply invite said spin fisher out into the parking lot, and invite him to get out his best gear. I would pick up a rod with a sink tip line and leader, sans fly. Then, we’d have us a little contest and see who can cast the longest distance… with no lure… Now, if he can throw 60 feet of line without a lure, and can pick up the line and cast it again without reeling it all in, I _might_ be willing to concede that there isn’t any difference between spinning and flycasting… but it ain’t gonna happen, folks! For a REAL test, let’s try the same thing without rods! Joe Ellis         o/~ The Synthetic Filker o/~ |    TesserAct Studios  //~~~LL~~~~LL~ Update your address book today!|  New Dimensions In Filk!

Response:

Any lines drawn between the admittedly "pure" art of the direct imitation of the accepted three major groups of may-, caddis-, and stoneflies and all other "fly" forms should be made on an individual basis, or not at all. Weighted or unweighted, the subsurface imitation exists only to entice the intended quarry, and if that brings pleasure to the angler, then so be it.  There can be no harm in the peaceful pursuit of, and the subsequent glorification and immortalization of a truly beautiful creature when taken by the fairest of all sporting methods, the fly rod.

Response:

Hi: I talked with a fly shop owner last week who was against the use of weighted flies, like a large nymph, or extreme sink tips on waters designated for fly fishing only.  He questioned, and I tend to agree, that this is not conceptually different from spin fishing with heavy jigs, weights, etc.  I’m curious how others on this group would respond to a spin fisher who points to these type of fly tackle as being equivalent to spin tackle, and that to reserve waters for fly fishing only tends to ignore the similarities in tackle. Don

More Horse Hockey.  Why not liven it up a bit and consider things like Dahlberg Divers, no weight, but shaped to dive, or the infamous "Wiggle Bug"?  Maybe we should regulate flylines to a maximum castable length of 50 feet, outlaw shooting heads and require a full backcast to qualify as "flyfishing".  Speycasters and 50ft+ rollcasters must not be real flyfisher persons.  Or extend the debate to the "strike indicaters aren’t flyfishing" school of thought or using more than one fly isn’t flyfishing (never mind that there is a long documented use of a dryfly as an "indicater" for a subsurface fly or the traditional us of 5 or mor fly "casts" in the British Isles). Mike in PDX "When the trout are lost, smash the state."                           Tom McGuane

Response:

Hi: I talked with a fly shop owner last week who was against the use of weighted flies, like a large nymph, or extreme sink tips on waters designated for fly fishing only.  He questioned, and I tend to agree, that this is not conceptually different from spin fishing with heavy jigs, weights, etc.  I’m curious how others on this group would respond to a spin fisher who points to these type of fly tackle as being equivalent to spin tackle, and that to reserve waters for fly fishing only tends to ignore the similarities in tackle. Don

Horse Hockey.  A bit of non-specific fuzzy thinking.  "Tackle"="The equipment used in a sport or occupation, esp. fishing, gear."  Since both use a long stick sort of thing to propel a faux edible thing some distance into the aquatic environment I suppose you could make the argument that fly and spin "tackle" are the same without even considering the terminal part of same…..Don’t think Dame Julianna Berners fished dry, wet or "damp" for the most part.  Suppose this discussion which tends to be of interest to those older than dirt on the North Umpqua and newbies will continue until the weightless hook is perfected.  The debate (or mindless dithering if you prefer) has been ongoing in and out of print for at least the past 25 years.     Mike in PDX "When the trout are lost, smash the state."                           Tom McGuane

Response:

Hi: I talked with a fly shop owner last week who was against the use of weighted flies, like a large nymph, or extreme sink tips on waters designated for fly fishing only.  He questioned, and I tend to agree, that this is not conceptually different from spin fishing with heavy jigs, weights, etc.  I’m curious how others on this group would respond to a spin fisher who points to these type of fly tackle as being equivalent to spin tackle, and that to reserve waters for fly fishing only tends to ignore the similarities in tackle. Don

I think that the responses have been interesting, but my question is directed towards the regulation of certain waters for fly fishing only versus other types of tackle that might be used.  I have no quarrel against fishing a dry fly on a wet fly swing, nor the use of any of the type of flies now used. (Well maybe against the use of lead vs non-lead wire/putty.)  Nor do I have anything against spin fishing or a simple stick with a bunch of worms on a hook.  I have fished waters with both types of equipment and have fished along with spin fishers. Don

Response:

“ I talked with a fly shop owner last week who was against the use of weighted flies, like a large nymph, or extreme sink tips on waters` designated for fly fishing only.  He questioned, and I tend to agree,

` that this is not conceptually different from spin fishing with heavy ` jigs, weights, etc.  I’m curious how others on this group would ` respond to a spin fisher who points to these type of fly tackle as ` being equivalent to spin tackle, and that to reserve waters for fly ` fishing only tends to ignore the similarities in tackle. ` ` Don      If you are going to have "fly fishing only," then I suppose you have to define fly fishing. Personally, I could care less. I often fish lightweight spinners with my fly rod. I make them myself. Most of the time, streamers work better than (metal) spinners. But what the hell. I also make fly rod jigs….little wire–headed streamers that I cast with a slow motion double haul. They (fly rod jigs) are often useful, although split shot on the leader, combined with a neutrally buouant fly, is usually more productive.     Is it true that people who fret and worry about definitions tend to be category people, –people who have a hard time dealing with gray area?

Response:

C I talked with a fly shop owner last week who was against the use of C weighted flies, like a large nymph, or extreme sink tips on waters C designated for fly fishing only.  He questioned, and I tend to agree, Hm, I do spin fish on occasions and I don’t need room for a backcast when I do. Nore do I need to worry too much about the weight of my lure or "mending" my casts. I also don’t need to worry about my cricket coming off when I cast. I find it easier to spin cast to a specific location and can cast much farther and faster than when I fly fish. I think these and other differences clearly distinguish between fly and spin fishing. For me, fly fishing refers to how I cast my line, not to what I choose to cast. Many folks look down their nose at streamers because they are not insects. Again for me, its how, not what, I cast.      Trey Monroe

Response:

Hi: I talked with a fly shop owner last week who was against the use of weighted flies, like a large nymph, or extreme sink tips on waters designated for fly fishing only.  He questioned, and I tend to agree, that this is not conceptually different from spin fishing with heavy jigs, weights, etc.  I’m curious how others on this group would respond to a spin fisher who points to these type of fly tackle as being equivalent to spin tackle, and that to reserve waters for fly fishing only tends to ignore the similarities in tackle. Don

In California, we have lots of  water that is designated "artificials only, single barbless hook".  This means that using a spinning rod with a lure ( spinner, spoon, plug or jig ) that has a single hook(s) with the barb pinched flat is OK. We have very few fisheries that are Fly Fishing Only. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA

Response:

Hi: I talked with a fly shop owner last week who was against the use of weighted flies, like a large nymph, or extreme sink tips on waters designated for fly fishing only.  He questioned, and I tend to agree, that this is not conceptually different from spin fishing with heavy jigs, weights, etc.  I’m curious how others on this group would respond to a spin fisher who points to these type of fly tackle as being equivalent to spin tackle, and that to reserve waters for fly fishing only tends to ignore the similarities in tackle. Don

Response:

Hi: I talked with a fly shop owner last week who was against the use of weighted flies, like a large nymph, or extreme sink tips on waters designated for fly fishing only.  He questioned, and I tend to agree, that this is not conceptually different from spin fishing with heavy jigs, weights, etc.  I’m curious how others on this group would respond to a spin fisher who points to these type of fly tackle as being equivalent to spin tackle, and that to reserve waters for fly fishing only tends to ignore the similarities in tackle. Don

I totally disagree, I suppose you can only fish dries upstream also.  I fished rivers for years as a spinning fisherman, and only took up flyfishing a few years back, but fishing with heavy jigs isn’t like fly fishing.  There are many things in life that conceptually might be similar, but in reality are totally different. Vince

Response:

Question:

Hello Ron, and welcome          Forget the Rouge River. Its closer to an industrial waste carrier than a habitat for any life. Probably your closest shot to a local place is Paint Creek in Rochester, or the Huron River near Wixom, at the Proud Lake Recreation area.       Tight lines,       Damian

Response:

Hi Ron, If you are going to be here in April,  and you don’t mind catching and releasing planted Browns, then bring your stuff.  There is a place that is less than 30 minutes from Southfield. Tight Lines, Henry

: I have to go to Southfield Michigan on business this month.  Are there : any good fly shops in the area?   : My maps show the "River Rouge" going through this area.  Any good : fishing, or would I have to worry about the river catching on fire? : Any urban anglers out there that can help this Boardman River : fisherman? : Ron : : : Hello Ron, : : There are a (at least) 2 good fly shops near Southfield: : : 1) The Riverbend, 313-350 8484, Southfield :    29229 Northw. Hwy (north of 12 mile Road) : : 2) Bueters Outdoors, 810-349 3677, Northville, :    120 E Main Street (8 mile Rd x Novi Rd) : : I am new to this area myself so I don’t know much about : the fishing in the "River Rouge". : Good luck / Stefan

Response:

Question:

   To All;   I have been asked by some in my tying classes , what 5 things makes up a High Quality Fly. The question is valid and would like to hear what the ROFF group may say.    Harry

Response:

  To All;  I have been asked by some in my tying classes , what 5 things makes up a High Quality Fly. The question is valid and would like to hear what the ROFF group may say.   Harry

Hi Harry, I offer my ideas regarding the 5 things that make a high quality fly from my perspective, a commercial fly tier: 1. Durability – quality materials, strong hook, etc. 2. Proper proportions, tail length, hackle, etc. 3. Attractive to the fly fisher 4. Attractive to the fish 5. Will sell It will be interesting to see what other fly tiers/fisher think. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

Response:

   To All;   I have been asked by some in my tying classes , what 5 things makes up a High Quality Fly. The question is valid and would like to hear what the ROFF group may say.    Harry

Harry,         Here’s my list of the five characteristics of a good quality fly: Durability – It has to last.  This isn’t art for art’s sake. Ease of tying – The point is to go fishing sometime this century.  I         lose enough flies that I need to tie more than one per day. Bugginess – Oh, that elusive quality.  If it doesn’t "look buggy" it         probably will never get tied on my tippet.  I’ve carried flies         for years that just don’t get a rise out of me. Availability of Ingredients – Part of this is my frugality.  But, part         is my ecological awareness.  If I’m going to have to spend         my tying and fishing time tracking down materials, I’m outta         here. Catches Fish – Course, before I know this, I’ve tracked down the         materials, easily tied the fly, am confident in its durability,         and have tied it on my tippet.  But, hey, this is what we’re         doing this for, isn’t it? Charley

Response:

  To All;  I have been asked by some in my tying classes , what 5 things makes up a High Quality Fly. The question is valid and would like to hear what the ROFF group may say.   Harry

Reply Never counted my reasons. 1. Do I enjoy tying the fly? 2. Does it REALLY require all of those materials that I don’t have? Can I sub. and    still have a good looking fly that will work. 3. Do I have confidence in the fly. 4. Do I need another fly like this one. How many of this type do I already carry that    I don’t use now. 5. And back to # 1. If I like to tie the fly thats what matters. I’m here for just      the fun.  CU, Steve Birkes Buckner, Mo.

Response:

  To All;  I have been asked by some in my tying classes , what 5 things makes up a High Quality Fly. The question is valid and would like to hear what the ROFF group may say.

I can boil it down to just three things: 1.  It has to catch fish. 2.  It has to catch fish. 3.  It has to catch fish. Larry H.

Response:

I fish mainly in still waters and I fine one other quality to be of importance when tying.I like to call this Pulsability; giving the illusion of a bubbling, pulsating, swimming creature. John Hafner

Response:

Harry, as a former pro tyer I would have to say it’s more a case of WHO makes a good fly. Style and expertise does not come to everyone, even if you have the correct materials for any given pattern.   To All;  I have been asked by some in my tying classes , what 5 things makes up a High Quality Fly. The question is valid and would like to hear what the ROFF group may say.   Harry

– dave tait

Response:

I fish mainly in still waters and I fine one other quality to be of importance when tying.I like to call this Pulsability; giving the illusion of a bubbling, pulsating, swimming creature. John Hafner

A good fly should take less time to tie than it does to lose it.    -Ralph —

Response:

  To All;  I have been asked by some in my tying classes , what 5 things makes up a High Quality Fly. The question is valid and would like to hear what the ROFF group may say.   Harry

1. proportion 2. balance 3. durability 4. castability 5. silouette these are what i shoot for when tying flies for stripers, etc. shade/color would probably come in 6th for me.                                                 jc

Response:

        Does it catch fish?         That, essentially, is the bottom line.

Response:

        Does it catch fish?         That, essentially, is the bottom line.

Yes, but,…… There are lots of flies out there that catch marlin, peacock bass, sharks, etc.  They catch fish, but are not a good fly for me.  I don’t get to sea too often.  And, when I do, I’m usually looking for salmon! So, now we have to add the delimiter, "Does it catch the fish I’m after?". This is such a complex question! :^) Charley

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –         Does it catch fish?         That, essentially, is the bottom line. Yes, but,…… There are lots of flies out there that catch marlin, peacock bass, sharks, etc.  They catch fish, but are not a good fly for me.  I don’t get to sea too often.  And, when I do, I’m usually looking for salmon! So, now we have to add the delimiter, "Does it catch the fish I’m after?". This is such a complex question! :^) Charley

Hi Charley, Good point Charley! My flies always catch the fish I’m after IF i’m telling the story.?! Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

Response:

Al Beatty said: Hi Charley, Good point Charley! My flies always catch the fish I’m after IF i’m telling the story.?!

Cheers for Al’s honesty.  I will add that if they don’t, I damn quick change the story. Dick Hubbard

Response:

   To All;   I have been asked by some in my tying classes , what 5 things makes up a High Quality Fly. The question is valid and would like to hear what the ROFF group may say.    Harry

Harry: 1. Ease of tying: most of us fit fly tying between the responsibilities work, running a home, and the ten o’clock news. Functional patterns are not necessarily a compromise. You can crank out a dozen brown-hackle-peacocks or BWO compara duns in the time it takes to tie half-as-many extended body paradrakes. This is not to say you don’t need extended body paradrakes–just save the more involved patterns for those rare occasions when you have a few hours to spend on the vice. 2. Proportions and technique: Spend time understanding how to size hackle and dimension tails; without such understanding, you can easily turn a humpy into a spider. Study A. K. Best’s "Production Fly Tying." He explains technique in this book, not recipes for ties (this book is made most valuable as a reference source: when you’re lashing down a moose mane tail, you can consult the book for a brief technique refresher before you begin, and your flies look a little better for your trouble). 3. Materials: Garbage in, garbage out. Webby dry fly hackle, too soft biots, it doesn’t matter. There’s nothing you can do to disguise poor materials. 4. Hooks: I used to recycle hooks but quit when I discovered that hooks grow weaker in boxes–every time your fly box gets submerged, the hooks will weaken from rust, particularly where the bend enters foam. I prefer Tiemco (particularly the 200R) and Daichi hooks. 5. Bottom Line: tie patterns that have proved their worth on the waters you fish. While just about any pattern will work at one time or another, there are a lot of useless diversions out there. Get to know old timers and knowledgable guides. They’ll turn you on to patterns you won’t find in books. Mitch Mulhall

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    To All;   I have been asked by some in my tying classes , what 5 things makes up a High Quality Fly. The question is valid and would like to hear what the ROFF group may say.    Harry Harry: 1. Ease of tying: most of us fit fly tying between the responsibilities work, running a home, and the ten o’clock news. Functional patterns are not necessarily a compromise. You can crank out a dozen brown-hackle-peacocks or BWO compara duns in the time it takes to tie half-as-many extended body paradrakes. This is not to say you don’t need extended body paradrakes–just save the more involved patterns for those rare occasions when you have a few hours to spend on the vice. 2. Proportions and technique: Spend time understanding how to size hackle and dimension tails; without such understanding, you can easily turn a humpy into a spider. Study A. K. Best’s "Production Fly Tying." He explains technique in this book, not recipes for ties (this book is made most valuable as a reference source: when you’re lashing down a moose mane tail, you can consult the book for a brief technique refresher before you begin, and your flies look a little better for your trouble). 3. Materials: Garbage in, garbage out. Webby dry fly hackle, too soft biots, it doesn’t matter. There’s nothing you can do to disguise poor materials. 4. Hooks: I used to recycle hooks but quit when I discovered that hooks grow weaker in boxes–every time your fly box gets submerged, the hooks will weaken from rust, particularly where the bend enters foam. I prefer Tiemco (particularly the 200R) and Daichi hooks. 5. Bottom Line: tie patterns that have proved their worth on the waters you fish. While just about any pattern will work at one time or another, there are a lot of useless diversions out there. Get to know old timers and knowledgable guides. They’ll turn you on to patterns you won’t find in books. Mitch Mulhall

  To Mitch and all who took the time to reply, thank you !!  I will take these notes to the start of yet another class Thursday night.   Again Thanks    Harry

Response:

Question:

Hi, a brand new german internet fly-fisherman is around ! I am sorry if a cause some troubles here, but it is my first time in the internet and i wanted to take a look at the worlds computer-fly-fishermen. So if i produce any mistakes in here, I AM SORRY !       Would be nice if somebody talks to me, just to see that i am right in here.    CU, bye…….

Response:

Hi, a brand new german internet fly-fisherman is around ! I am sorry if a cause some troubles here, but it is my first time in the internet and i wanted to take a look at the worlds computer-fly-fishermen. So if i produce any mistakes in here, I AM SORRY !       Would be nice if somebody talks to me, just to see that i am right in here.    CU, bye…….

Hello and welcome. It’s always great to have flyfishers from different countries. I lived in Germany for 3 years and had some great fishing experiences there. Tchuss! Cal Harris — Fishin Buddy  o <<     o  |           These opinions are offered by weight  <     <  o       <J           provocative content may have occurred      <<       <<                    during shipping and handling.

Response:

Howdy,     you are hear and heard…always nice to have someone from across the water join in.  Maybe you can tell me about Huchen if you have ever had the oportlunity to fish for them.                     Petri Heil                          Mike Leitheiser, Portland, Oregon

Response:

Hi from around the world. Enjoy the ‘net and aloha, |Robert (aka: Bob) B. Graham – NINC-HON               Office: (808) 523-4500| |(Nerd-In-Chief Honolulu)                               Home: (808) 395-9360| |City & County of Honolulu           Prodigy: WTKW87A                       |  I have a vice, that vice is fishing – time stops, I’m in a different world.

: Hi, : a brand new german internet fly-fisherman is around ! : I am sorry if a cause some troubles here, but it is my first : time in the internet and i wanted to take a look at the worlds : computer-fly-fishermen. So if i produce any mistakes in here, : I AM SORRY !       Would be nice if somebody talks to me, : just to see that i am right in here.    CU, bye…….

Response:

This thread is great! Does any one know if there is an IRC session on FFishing? That is where real time conversation can take place and our German friends can participate. I’m a Fly fisherman and amateur astronomer. On sundays an #ASTRONOMY session held. Folks from uk, as, fr and others participate. A FFishing session would be great too.

: Hi, : a brand new german internet fly-fisherman is around ! : I am sorry if a cause some troubles here, but it is my first : time in the internet and i wanted to take a look at the worlds : computer-fly-fishermen. So if i produce any mistakes in here, : I AM SORRY !       Would be nice if somebody talks to me, : just to see that i am right in here.    CU, bye……. —  Remember amateur astronomers: "keep looking for the next Universe"

Response:

bob- glad to hear u made it on to the net and welcome.  no doesn’t seem like u caused any prblems but how the fishing in germany?  currently i am in Manchester, New Hampshire, USA and while its alittle cold here and the seasons is on hold the fishing was tremendous this summer and fall in our northern rivers and streams.  also was terrific out west in Wyoming and Montana where i spend three weeks every year.  so i guess we have u to blame for all these german browns that thrive in our rivers, well i can tell u they get pretty big over hear.  well lots of luck.                                                  tight lines

Response: