Question:

I have corresponded with a couple entomologists specializing in Mayflies that were very willing to help me with some questions I had. I can give you their email addresses if you’re interested but with the little bit of information you have (and it is from a forty year old memory) I don’t think they will be able to help you.

Agreed.  I think the only way to settle this for sure is to find someone familiar with this particular hatch on that body of water. Wolfgang

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think the prize goes to Tom (a shiny, new nickel) as Kropp and Cormier’s "Mayflies’ list the Dark Green Drake as the largest of the N.A. mayfly species, larger than our hexes.  There is quite a size range with body length ranging from a 16 to 40 millimeters and a recommended hook size from 12 to a whopping #2. Um…Recurvata is Hexagenia Recurvata ((Great) Dark Green Drake), and the L. mentioned by Tom is likely from the similar, but smaller, H. Limbata.  While it would seemingly fit Wolfgang’s description ("Hatches" even makes mention of it appearing "almost black" on the wing), it is a Hexagenia. Wolfgang – you said something about being certain it was not hexagenia – why? As H. Recurvata and H. Limbata are close, with the Limbata hatch even being known mistakenly in Michigan as, again, according to "Hatches," a "Caddis Hatch," and also being called a "Michigan Caddis" or "Michigan Mayfly."

H. limbata is much too light colored and too large to be my mystery bug.  Still having trouble getting on the web, so I haven’t been able to look at H. recurvata (or Litobrancha recurvata as it now seems to be called), or the Epeorus you mentioned earlier for that matter. I’m surprised to read that the Green Drake is considered by Kropp and Cormier to be the largest of the North american mayflies; every reference I’ve seen says that honor belongs to H. limbata. Wolfgang

Response:

JAFB, Wolfie — TBone

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think the prize goes to Tom (a shiny, new nickel) as Kropp and Cormier’s "Mayflies’ list the Dark Green Drake as the largest of the N.A. mayfly species, larger than our hexes.  There is quite a size range with body length ranging from a 16 to 40 millimeters and a recommended hook size from 12 to a whopping #2. Um…Recurvata is Hexagenia Recurvata ((Great) Dark Green Drake), and the L. mentioned by Tom is likely from the similar, but smaller, H. Limbata.  While it would seemingly fit Wolfgang’s description ("Hatches" even makes mention of it appearing "almost black" on the wing), it is a Hexagenia. Wolfgang – you said something about being certain it was not hexagenia – why? As H. Recurvata and H. Limbata are close, with the Limbata hatch even being known mistakenly in Michigan as, again, according to "Hatches," a "Caddis Hatch," and also being called a "Michigan Caddis" or "Michigan Mayfly." H. limbata is much too light colored and too large to be my mystery bug.  Still having trouble getting on the web, so I haven’t been able to look at H. recurvata (or Litobrancha recurvata as it now seems to be called), or the Epeorus you mentioned earlier for that matter. I’m surprised to read that the Green Drake is considered by Kropp and Cormier to be the largest of the North american mayflies; every reference I’ve seen says that honor belongs to H. limbata.

I think you may have that backwards in that I think you’ll find that Recurvata is larger than Limbata, but only just.  In any case, they are close enough in size that it doesn’t really matter – if one is much too large, the other will be as well.  If they are too large, then color really doesn’t matter, but I’ve seen references that indicate both can range in color.  Based on the information that Recurvata/Limbata is much too large, I’d try to get a look at Epeorus.  Here’s a link I found: http://www.mayfly.com/articles/WW7.html by Al Caucci and I’ve also emailed you a copy of the "suspect." TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Wolfgang

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rdean notes: Um…Recurvata is Hexagenia Recurvata ((Great) Dark Green Drake),

was….then got reclassified as Litobrancha Recurvata. Geez, all this latin has me dizzy. Let me grab a beer!                       Tom

Response:

rdean notes: Um…Recurvata is Hexagenia Recurvata ((Great) Dark Green Drake), was….then got reclassified as Litobrancha Recurvata. Geez, all this latin has me dizzy. Let me grab a beer!                      Tom

Ah…thanks.  I guess then I ought to add that everything I’ve indicated in this thread may be equally outdated.  I’m almost afraid to ask, but…any idea why? TC, R

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Did it look like this? http://www.charlesmeck.com/600slatedrake.jpg That looks a lot more like what I remember.  There’s still a good bit of brown in this one but, in truth, 40 some years later it’s hard to be certain that the bugs I saw and which I was NOT interested in examining closely did not have some brown.  On the other hand, a brief search on the web shows that both Isonychia bicolor and Isonychia sadleri are referred to as Slate Drakes and both of these, according to the hatch charts I looked at, run in the 14-12 size range.  Again, it’s quite possible that my memory has magnified them, but I’m fairly certain these bugs were bigger.

What about an Epeorus variety – "Iron Dun," and even "Quill Gordon," perhaps, to some (or "Dark Wing Quill Gordon")?  If you have the Caucci/Nastasi "Hatches," you will find info there, or perhaps a web search.  If you do the web search, don’t take the first picture you find, if it appears unlike the one you remember.  I did a search, looked at a couple, and there seems to be no actual consensus among the few sites I looked at as to exactly what was what. I did, however, notice this one, which unfortunately, has no picture: http://www.maineflyfishing.com/bluedun/pattern.htm Look under "Quill Gordon," where it says, "Quill Gordons are called Epeorus Pleuralis (ee-pee-or-us ploor-alice) by those up on Latin and just plain old "bigggggg dark mayflies" or "Iron Duns" by the rest of us. They are big (size 10/12), dark, have two tails (barred and equal to their body length), double  wings…" TC, R

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I think the prize goes to Tom (a shiny, new nickel) as Kropp and Cormier’s "Mayflies’ list the Dark Green Drake as the largest of the N.A. mayfly species, larger than our hexes.  There is quite a size range with body length ranging from a 16 to 40 millimeters and a recommended hook size from 12 to a whopping #2.

Um…Recurvata is Hexagenia Recurvata ((Great) Dark Green Drake), and the L. mentioned by Tom is likely from the similar, but smaller, H. Limbata.  While it would seemingly fit Wolfgang’s description ("Hatches" even makes mention of it appearing "almost black" on the wing), it is a Hexagenia.   Wolfgang – you said something about being certain it was not hexagenia – why? As H. Recurvata and H. Limbata are close, with the Limbata hatch even being known mistakenly in Michigan as, again, according to "Hatches," a "Caddis Hatch," and also being called a "Michigan Caddis" or "Michigan Mayfly." TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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      I’ve found all kinds of good entomological sites on the web, but all   fall short of what would be ideal for this situation.  For example, I   found a site that has range maps for all known mayfly species within the   state of Wisconsin (a USGS site, of all the odd places) but as   interesting, and doubtless valuable, this information is, it’s pretty   much useless without cross referenced information regarding appearance,   habitat, and habit of the target species. Although the Web has a vast amount of information, it is often difficult or even impossible to find the specific information that you want. I would like to see the studies done at public Universities made available on the Internet. Because the data would need to be inputted, it would be costly and difficult for older studies, but virtually all current research is composed on a computer and making them available to the public wouldn’t be a monumental task. This access could be a condition for any researchers getting public funding for their research.     Consulting an entomologist has occurred to me, but this is neither as   easy nor necessarily as promising as it might sound.  First, one would   necessarily have to find an aquatic entomologist (or at least one with a   specific interest in aquatic species…..a fly fisher perhaps).  I know   of a good aquatic entomologist at UW, Stevens Point but he happens to   specialize in plecoptera and, scientific specialties being what they   are, this might not help much even if I were trying to identify a   stonefly unless he happened to be a taxonomist or have some other reason   to be familiar with my target species. I have corresponded with a couple entomologists specializing in Mayflies that were very willing to help me with some questions I had. I can give you their email addresses if you’re interested but with the little bit of information you have (and it is from a forty year old memory) I don’t think they will be able to help you.     As you stated, local subspecies might look and behave a great deal   differently than expected for a variety of reasons.  Hell, it isn’t even   unreasonable to suppose that we might be dealing with a species unknown   to science.  Granted, it isn’t likely but new species (especially of   small and highly localized arthropods) do turn up from time to time.   There is also the possibility (admittedly also unlikely) of a known   species behaving in an uncharacteristic manner.  For example, an   uncommon species might suddenly reproduce successfully in undreamed of   numbers within a given location due to an unusual and highly beneficial   confluence of circumstances. You may very well be right about this. One of the researchers I contacted said that they were MANY unknown species and local variations. There just isn’t much grant money available to study them. The vast amount of research done on insects is on insect control (where the money is). Willi

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What about an Epeorus variety – "Iron Dun," and even "Quill Gordon," perhaps, to some (or "Dark Wing Quill Gordon")?  If you have the Caucci/Nastasi "Hatches," you will find info there, or perhaps a web search.  If you do the web search, don’t take the first picture you find, if it appears unlike the one you remember.  I did a search, looked at a couple, and there seems to be no actual consensus among the few sites I looked at as to exactly what was what. I did, however, notice this one, which unfortunately, has no picture: http://www.maineflyfishing.com/bluedun/pattern.htm Look under "Quill Gordon," where it says, "Quill Gordons are called Epeorus Pleuralis (ee-pee-or-us ploor-alice) by those up on Latin and just plain old "bigggggg dark mayflies" or "Iron Duns" by the rest of us. They are big (size 10/12), dark, have two tails (barred and equal to their body length), double  wings…"

Unfortunately, I seem to be unable to access anything on the web right now.  We had some trouble with the college server last week.  Looks like it may not be entirely resolved yet.  I’ll take a look at the Epeorus as soon as I can. Thanks Wolfgang

Response:

I think the prize goes to Tom (a shiny, new nickel) as Kropp and Cormier’s "Mayflies’ list the Dark Green Drake as the largest of the N.A. mayfly species, larger than our hexes.  There is quite a size range with body length ranging from a 16 to 40 millimeters and a recommended hook size from 12 to a whopping #2. According to the book, they are clumsy on takeoff as they are so large, often skipping across  the water. They emerge at dusk or after sunset being primarily a cool lake species but slow, silty parts of rivers will hold them too. BTW, at the beginning of August, we drove through a blizzard light cahill hatch at dusk.  Still trying to get the critters off my car. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

  Well, roughly anyway. Maybe this is it? Late June through mid July – Ephemera Simulans, Brown Drake, this is the most prevalent large mayfly hatch in the Upper Peninsula.

I was fortunate to fish a Brown Drake hatch this year at Silver Creek. These are by far the largest mayflies I’ve ever seen, and the hatch was prolific. The hatch occurs in the evening and through the night, until it’s so dark that you can only detect the takes by ear. These bugs live in slow moving water with a silty bottom. The nymphs are swimmers, and they’ll take fish before the hatch with a stripped retrieve. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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 Wolfgang, dear boy.  There is only one mayfly that is as prolific as the ones you describe.  Hexagina Limbatas!  So thick are they during the early days that they would cover a cabin and all the screen doors with their numbers. God!  What an insect! George Gehrke

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  Well, roughly anyway. Maybe this is it? Late June through mid July – Ephemera Simulans, Brown Drake, this is the most prevalent large mayfly hatch in the Upper Peninsula. Willi

Nope.  Found a picture of Ephemera simulans: http://www.flyshop.com/bench/hatchguide/index.cfm?page=bug&row=13 Not the same critter at all.  As the common name suggests, this beastie is brown.  The one I remember is black. Thanks. Wolfgang

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I think they were some kind of a variation of huge Brown Drake. Hear me out. I’ve got the same question… 55-60 years ago, when I was growing up in Chicago, I lived on the far north side 2 blocks from Lake Michigan.  Every summer, sometime in June, there was a massive hatch of Mayflys almost exactly as you describe.  They were coming off the shore of the lake. There was no other body of water within 50 miles that could support such a hatch. It was so prolific it completely blackened the street lights, covered the store front windows – you couldn’t see out.  They covered the ground so thick they squished under your feet. I remember some of them having a very dark brown hue as well as slate gray to black.  They were easily size 6 – 8.  They were NOT Hexigina. I never found out what they were for sure. In recent years I’ve seen other similar hatches coming off clear Canadian Lakes that were known to be Brown Drakes. Wolf, keep it as a sweet memory of your youth.  Dream about someday being on a stream or lake holding 10 lb. Rainbow when a hatch like that comes off.  The fish go wild and you go bonkers. Heaven.   Joel Axelrad **DFD**

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Nope.  Found a picture of Ephemera simulans: http://www.flyshop.com/bench/hatchguide/index.cfm?page=bug&row=13 Not the same critter at all.  As the common name suggests, this beastie is brown.  The one I remember is black. Thanks.

Did it look like this? http://www.charlesmeck.com/600slatedrake.jpg — Warren change addy to yahoo for email Henry’s Fork Clave info http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt3/HFclave.html

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Discounting them by about thirty percent for temporal magnification and the horror factor still leaves them at a good size eight or even a solid six…..and possibly a bit larger. Any ideas?

wolfie, no discounting…. it must have been…. http://www.windows.ucar.edu/tour/link=/earth/images/bat_big_jpg_image… –waldo

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Wolfgang asks: Any ideas?

ask around among the academic types for someone who knows an entomologist. There are probably very good entomologies online(which may limit access). People will probably suggest Ephemera and Hexes, but there an awful lot of obscure mayfly species, and lakes have locale specific subspecies you might never encounter unless you blunder on them. I will venture with the closest I have ever seen. It would be: L(Litobrancha?).Recurvata, which was once classified with the Hexes. In PA they are called Dark Green Drakes. They hatch at or into dark, sometimes on real cloudy days, a bit earlier, say 7 PM. They are huge, maybe bigger than the Green Drakes. The bodies are a darkish grey, with rings of paler yellow tan along the abdomen. Wings are a smokey grey, mottled somewhat. They look nasty, as they are a bit heftier in the body(squatter, might be better). Hatched out of a silty pool in Penns one night on Makela and I, fish going silly, no good imitations, massive bugs in mouth and hair, etc.etc. That was in 1993, haven’t seen one since.                                   Tom

Response:

Did it look like this? http://www.charlesmeck.com/600slatedrake.jpg

That looks a lot more like what I remember.  There’s still a good bit of brown in this one but, in truth, 40 some years later it’s hard to be certain that the bugs I saw and which I was NOT interested in examining closely did not have some brown.  On the other hand, a brief search on the web shows that both Isonychia bicolor and Isonychia sadleri are referred to as Slate Drakes and both of these, according to the hatch charts I looked at, run in the 14-12 size range.  Again, it’s quite possible that my memory has magnified them, but I’m fairly certain these bugs were bigger. All in all, I think uncle Wally’s candidate looks the most promising.     Wolfgang

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Discounting them by about thirty percent for temporal magnification and the horror factor still leaves them at a good size eight or even a solid six…..and possibly a bit larger. Any ideas? wolfie, no discounting…. it must have been…. http://www.windows.ucar.edu/tour/link=/earth/images/bat_big_jpg_image…

THAT’S IT!  I’d recognize the bastard anywhere! Wolfgang who is reasonably certain he doesn’t even want to know what the nymphs look like.      :(

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I think they were some kind of a variation of huge Brown Drake. Hear me out. I’ve got the same question… 55-60 years ago, when I was growing up in Chicago, I lived on the far north side 2 blocks from Lake Michigan.  Every summer, sometime in June, there was a massive hatch of Mayflys almost exactly as you describe.  They were coming off the shore of the lake. There was no other body of water within 50 miles that could support such a hatch. It was so prolific it completely blackened the street lights, covered the store front windows – you couldn’t see out.  They covered the ground so thick they squished under your feet.

I remember talking about this with you, but I don’t recall whether you said anything about the substrate there.  The bugs I encountered would almost have to have been burrowers.  The bottom of this lake was very soft….even very near shore where turbulence would wash away at least some of the muck you would sink at least ankle deep in the stuff.  I’m not intimately familiar with the Lake Michigan shoreline in the Chicago area, so I may have missed it, but I don’t believe there’s any large protected area that would have that kind of soft bottom.  Do you know of any such? I remember some of them having a very dark brown hue as well as slate gray to black.  They were easily size 6 – 8.  

Size and color scheme sound about right. They were NOT Hexigina.

Absolutely right.  Impossible to mistake the Hex for anything else. Moreover, while I don’t remember just how long they were around, we encountered them when we first left the cottage in the morning, which would have been fairly early (at a cottage on a lake in what we thought of as the north woods nothing…..well, almost nothing…could keep us indoors much past sunrise on a sunny day) and I remember that we stayed inside for the rest of the day, and perhaps even the next.  These bugs were active….VERY active….throughout the day. I never found out what they were for sure. In recent years I’ve seen other similar hatches coming off clear Canadian Lakes that were known to be Brown Drakes.

Didn’t you also tell me the last time we talked about them that you thought you had seen them again in the Chicago area…..or am I imagining that? Wolf, keep it as a sweet memory of your youth.  Dream about someday being on a stream or lake holding 10 lb. Rainbow when a hatch like that comes off.  The fish go wild and you go bonkers. Heaven.

Pretty picture!  Somewhat surprisingly, perhaps, I find the thought of finding the hatch again even more appealing than the idea of the monster fish. Wolfgang we need to talk logistics concerning the upcoming trip.

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Wolfgang writes… but I don’t believe there’s any large protected area that would have that kind of soft bottom.  Do you know of any such?

That’s true.  It was a clean sandy bottom.  Not protected.  Well washed  by the wave action.  Vegatation about 30 to 50 yds out from shore. Didn’t you also tell me the last time we talked about them that you thought you had seen them again in the Chicago area…..or am I imagining that?

I don’t think so.  You’re imagining. Pretty picture!  Somewhat surprisingly, perhaps, I find the thought of finding the hatch again even more appealing than the idea of the monster fish. Wolfgang

I still think they were Brown Drakes.  Looked a lot like the picture from the web site Warren posted.  But they were 6 & 8 for sure – not 10 & 12. Big guys!  I’ll dream of catching 10 lb. rainbow.  You dream of being blanketed by a hatch of monster mayflys. we need to talk logistics concerning the upcoming trip.

Let me know the details. Joel Axelrad **DFD**

Response:

Wolfgang asks: Any ideas? ask around among the academic types for someone who knows an entomologist. There are probably very good entomologies online(which may limit access).

I’ve found all kinds of good entomological sites on the web, but all fall short of what would be ideal for this situation.  For example, I found a site that has range maps for all known mayfly species within the state of Wisconsin (a USGS site, of all the odd places) but as interesting, and doubtless valuable, this information is, it’s pretty much useless without cross referenced information regarding appearance, habitat, and habit of the target species.  Other sites have much of that information, but matching the information on various sites is daunting, to say the least.  I have found some references to individual species which sounded promising for one reason or another but in many cases have been unable to find photographs of the bugs in question….and on and on. Consulting an entomologist has occurred to me, but this is neither as easy nor necessarily as promising as it might sound.  First, one would necessarily have to find an aquatic entomologist (or at least one with a specific interest in aquatic species…..a fly fisher perhaps).  I know of a good aquatic entomologist at UW, Stevens Point but he happens to specialize in plecoptera and, scientific specialties being what they are, this might not help much even if I were trying to identify a stonefly unless he happened to be a taxonomist or have some other reason to be familiar with my target species. People will probably suggest Ephemera and Hexes, but there an awful lot of obscure mayfly species, and lakes have locale specific subspecies you might never encounter unless you blunder on them.

Right, on all counts.  Both Ephemera and Isonychia look like good candidates based on photos, but both are questionable on the basis of size.  I don’t yet know enough about habit or habitat with regard to either genus.  Hexagenia limbata is definitely out for a variety of reasons. As you stated, local subspecies might look and behave a great deal differently than expected for a variety of reasons.  Hell, it isn’t even unreasonable to suppose that we might be dealing with a species unknown to science.  Granted, it isn’t likely but new species (especially of small and highly localized arthropods) do turn up from time to time. There is also the possibility (admittedly also unlikely) of a known species behaving in an uncharacteristic manner.  For example, an uncommon species might suddenly reproduce successfully in undreamed of numbers within a given location due to an unusual and highly beneficial confluence of circumstances. I will venture with the closest I have ever seen. It would be: L(Litobrancha?).Recurvata, which was once classified with the Hexes.

I just looked up Litobrancha.  Interestingly, the first hit I looked at was a UW Stevens Point website which contains a list of "AQUATIC INSECTS OF WISCONSIN RECENT SYNONYMS AT SPECIFIC OR HIGHER LEVELS" authored by none other than Stanley W. Szczytko, the aquatic entomologist I mentioned above, and Jeffrey J. Dimick, who used to be (and quite possibly still is) president of a local TU chapter in the area.  They list Litobrancha  in the "recent taxonomy" column next to Hexagenia (in part) under "prior taxonomy", and Litobrancha recurvata next to Hexagenia recurvata.  Looking at another dozen or sites, I have not yet found a photo.  I’ll keep working on this one. In PA they are called Dark Green Drakes. They hatch at or into dark, sometimes on real cloudy days, a bit earlier, say 7 PM. They are huge, maybe bigger than the Green Drakes. The bodies are a darkish grey, with rings of paler yellow tan along the abdomen. Wings are a smokey grey, mottled somewhat. They look nasty, as they are a bit heftier in the body(squatter, might be better). Hatched out of a silty pool in Penns one night on Makela and I, fish going silly, no good imitations, massive bugs in mouth and hair, etc.etc. That was in 1993, haven’t seen one since.

Doesn’t sound like my bug.  I don’t know when they came off, but they were very active through a bright sunny day.  Of course, it must be remembered that I’m basing all of this on memories of an event that occurred more than forty years ago and that I was not much interested in close observation of the bugs at the time.  In all likelihood, I’ll never be able to solve this mystery.  I thought (and I still do) that my best bet was to put it out here and hope that someone just happens to be familiar with this hatch in this particular place.  I think it’s just about time for a brilliant lurker with an encyclopedic knowledge of the Ephemeroptera to show him or herself and demonstrate how pitiful the rest of us really are.     Wolfgang thanks tom.

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  Well, roughly anyway.   Maybe this is it? Late June through mid July – Ephemera Simulans, Brown Drake, this is the most prevalent large mayfly hatch in the Upper Peninsula. Willi

Response:

Well, roughly anyway. My father’s cousin, Sam Friederich, owned a couple acres of land and a cottage (a dacha, as a Russian physicist I recently spoke with, "…not what YOU call a cottage here!" called it) on Kangaroo lake in Door County, Wisconsin.  For those not familiar with the area, Door County is the long finger of land which runs to the northeast up into Lake Michigan and thus forms Green Bay to the west. Kangaroo lake, http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?lat=45.0325&lon=-87.15889 was, in the late 1950s, lightly developed.  There were a couple of small resorts, a few permanent year round homes, several cottages like the one we frequently stayed at, all of them on the larger, southern section of the lake south of the causeway, and a single very large estate on the island.  Whatever organic pollutants entered the lake as a result of human habitation were still minimal at that time.  In other words, the water was very clean and the biome had probably changed little since pre-Columbian times.  Kangaroo lake was a wonderful place to swim, even for city bred kids like me, as long as one didn’t allow one’s feet to touch the bottom.  The lake bed was marl, and thus about as icky a thing to come into contact with as was imagineable….except, of course, for the things that actually LIVED in that oozy bottom! One day all those things that lived in the bottom (although I didn’t realize their origin at the time) came out.  The air was filled with bugs.  Millions of bugs.  Maybe billions of bugs.  They were so bold or so crazed or stupid that they would land on anything or anybody.  Adult reassurances that they were perfectly harmless fell on deaf ears and neither I nor my brothers or sister could be coaxed to go outside for any reason…..threats and coercion worked, but you get the picture. In the ensuing years, I have often wondered exactly what those bugs were.  My interest in fly fishing, running close onto twenty years worth now, makes it easy to say with certainty that they were some variety of mayfly, but I still haven’t been able to identify the species. Discounting them by about thirty percent for temporal magnification and the horror factor still leaves them at a good size eight or even a solid six…..and possibly a bit larger.  They were a dark, slate gray to nearly black and, if memory serves after all these years, they were almost certainly duns or sub-imagos….dark, nearly opaque wings. On a couple of occasions in the last two or three years I’ve made occasional efforts to locate resources on line which might solve the mystery for me but have, as yet, had no success. Any ideas? Wolfgang

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Question:

The Sowbug Roundup is a local club event put on by The North Arkansas Fly Fishers Club of Mountain Home Arkansas and is this coming Friday and Saturday March 15 and 16. The cost of admission is only 5 bucks for both days. There will be over 100 fly tiers to watch and it is a hell of a lot of fun. If you are going to be in the area you should consider attending. The fishing is great on the White River when they are not running all eight turbines. For more information go to www.Northarkansasflyfisher.org and click on The Sowbug Roundup. I think I will tie Waldo’s version of the Yellerhammar. Big Dale

BD, I posted last night but my server doesn’t show…. anyways, the past two weekends it has performed admirably. I probably caught a few more on the BH version. –waldo

Response:

The Sowbug Roundup is a local club event put on by The North Arkansas Fly Fishers Club of Mountain Home Arkansas and is this coming Friday and Saturday March 15 and 16. The cost of admission is only 5 bucks for both days. There will be over 100 fly tiers to watch and it is a hell of a lot of fun. If you are going to be in the area you should consider attending. The fishing is great on the White River when they are not running all eight turbines. For more information go to www.Northarkansasflyfisher.org and click on The Sowbug Roundup. I think I will tie Waldo’s version of the Yellerhammar. Big Dale  

Response:

Big Dale writes:

(good info snipped) I think I will tie Waldo’s version of the Yellerhammar.

Waldo’s version of the Yellerhammar does not have a point or bend on the hook. He’s a mean bastid……. Dave

Response:

The Sowbug Roundup is a local club event put on by The North Arkansas Fly Fishers Club of Mountain Home Arkansas and is this coming Friday and Saturday March 15 and 16. The cost of admission is only 5 bucks for both days. There will be over 100 fly tiers to watch and it is a hell of a lot of fun. If you are going to be in the area you should consider attending. The fishing is great on the White River when they are not running all eight turbines. For more information go to www.Northarkansasflyfisher.org and click on The Sowbug Roundup. I think I will tie Waldo’s version of the Yellerhammar. Big Dale

BD, It’s worked great the past two weekends. I think I may have caught a few more with the bead-head version…. but who’s countin’? <g –waldo

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Big Dale writes: (good info snipped) I think I will tie Waldo’s version of the Yellerhammar. Waldo’s version of the Yellerhammar does not have a point or bend on the hook. He’s a mean bastid……. Dave

cripes…. i missed a golden opportunity to get in cahoots with the ‘ole swapmeister with the copy he sent forty. shoot…. dang! –waldo

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Email me just with dates. I have a commitment around the first.  But for me it’s drive up the river to the mouth of the Deschuets walk a couple of miles and fish.  There is a park and boat launch there. Send me a phone number where your staying and I’ll call.  We are going to Crater Lake one on those weekends.  BJC – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I’ll be going to Portland,

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Theo: Portland may not be as beautiful as New Jersey, The Garden State (snicker, snicker), but you’ll like it fine. Actually, the above was sarcastic. Oregon is lovely, and in September it probably will either be hot (maybe even up to 100), or wonderful (60-70). You should be able to find steelhead in several local rivers or, if you have time to drive about 4 hrs, you can be on one of the world’s great steelhead streams, the Deschutes. Re-post or email me directly at the end of August to remind me — in the meantime I’ll check the migration status and let you know where the fish are. Your 7-8 wt rod will be perfect. Floating line (DT or WF) and fairly strong leaders. You’ll want to pick up some of the standard Northwest steelhead flies: Freight Train, Streetwalker and Skunks are the classics. Kaufmann’s Streamborne has them online, and I think Hill’s Discount Flies does too. You may want to email Kaufmann’s for advice, too. They’re expensive, but very helpful to travelling anglers. The standard approach for summer steelhead is very systematic: cast quartering downstream, let the line swing across the current until it’s straight downstream, strip in a couple of yards; take a big step downstream, pick up your line, and cast again. You end up covering the whole section of stream that way. The strikes usually come at the very end of the "swing" or during the first "strip." (The steelhead seem to follow the fly across the river, then pick it up when it stops.) There’s some basic info for you. Again, re-post your inquiry or email me when you get closer. You’ll have fun!! — Scoobey (Scott Bellows) "Cogito cogito ergo cogito sum." -Ambrose Bierce – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve never been to Portland, hence never done any flyfishing in that area (did some in New Jersey, last year, very nice).

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My favorite site to check on events around Oregon is http://www.westfly.com/cgi-bin/entryPage?state=OR Other sites include (in no particular order and no recommendation from me) http://www.flyfishingdeschutes.com/ http://www.deschutesoutfitters.com/Reports/index.html http://www.kman.com/ http://numb-butt.bendnet.com/ http://www.flyfishusa.com/index Rakane at gte dot net (remove the NOSPAM)

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If  its summer steelhead you want to fish for then check out the rivers around Tillamook, the Wilson, trask and not to forget the Nestucca, the Nestucca being my favorite river to fish for summer steelhead.  You might even be able to catch large fall chinook in the big Nehalem river.  There are plenty of places to fish around the area.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My favorite site to check on events around Oregon is http://www.westfly.com/cgi-bin/entryPage?state=OR Other sites include (in no particular order and no recommendation from me) http://www.flyfishingdeschutes.com/ http://www.deschutesoutfitters.com/Reports/index.html http://www.kman.com/ http://numb-butt.bendnet.com/ http://www.flyfishusa.com/index Rakane at gte dot net (remove the NOSPAM)

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The 2nd week of September should still be good weather.  The rains don’t usually start up until October. For steelhead, you might try the Sandy and Salmon rivers.  There’s a flyshop in Welches, OR (I forget the name but they are on the web) you should be able to give them a call or hire them as a guide. Best of luck,      - Ken

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I live in the Netherlands and, like you all, keen on flyfishing. I lurk around this newsgroup frequently and figured this is the place to ask some advice. I’ll be going to Portland, Oregon the second week of September, mostly for work. But,,,, I can squeeze in some time for fishing and, searching the web, found that it might actually be a good place for flyfishing, esp. steelhead. I’ve never been to Portland, hence never done any flyfishing in that area (did some in New Jersey, last year, very nice). So, any advice on spots (can rent a car), charters, gear (I’ve got a Shimano Chameleon traveller fly 9078, 9 feet #7-8, 4pcs. flyrod esp. for trips like this), flies to use, methods to use, you name it, is very much appreciated.

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Indeed we have wonderful weather usually the first part of September…When suggesting visiting the Portland, OR area, I recommend last 2 weeks of August first 2 weeks of September.  A great place to check the local fishing is with Kaufmann’s Streamborne Fly Shop in Tigard, OR (south of Portland a tiny bit) and they are on the web at www.kman.com Padishar Creel – It is over 80 today and clear in the Portland Oregon area, so there!

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I live in the Netherlands and, like you all, keen on flyfishing. I lurk around this newsgroup frequently and figured this is the place to ask some advice. I’ll be going to Portland, Oregon the second week of September, mostly for work. But,,,, I can squeeze in some time for fishing and, searching the web, found that it might actually be a good place for flyfishing, esp. steelhead. I’ve never been to Portland, hence never done any flyfishing in that area (did some in New Jersey, last year, very nice). So, any advice on spots (can rent a car), charters, gear (I’ve got a Shimano Chameleon traveller fly 9078, 9 feet #7-8, 4pcs. flyrod esp. for trips like this), flies to use, methods to use, you name it, is very much appreciated. Cheers, Theo

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Hi, I live in the Netherlands and, like you all, keen on flyfishing. I lurk around this newsgroup frequently and figured this is the place to ask some advice. I’ll be going to Portland, Oregon the second week of September, mostly for work. But,,,, I can squeeze in some time for fishing and, searching the web, found that it might actually be a good place for flyfishing, esp. steelhead. I’ve never been to Portland, hence never done any flyfishing in that area (did some in New Jersey, last year, very nice). So, any advice on spots (can rent a car), charters, gear (I’ve got a Shimano Chameleon traveller fly 9078, 9 feet #7-8, 4pcs. flyrod esp. for trips like this), flies to use, methods to use, you name it, is very much appreciated. Cheers, Theo

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Mike, Glad you made it back safe and sound.  Did you get a chance to play any more? Mark A

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I made it back from RSG-Atlanta and our trip to Disney World.  Mostly in one piece. I have to tell you–I have never had as much fun on a vacation as I did at RSG-Atlanta. Randy deserves all the accolades he’s received, and then some.  It was a flawlessly run event, from the weather to the waitresses.  I thoroughly enjoyed meeting everyone, and found all my playing partners to be a gas to golf with. In fact, I’ll have to talk this over with Scott Dega, but I’m thinking we might want to hire Randy in next year to "cater" RSG-Wisconsin.  :) I’m working on my pics (I’ve got some great ones) and I’ll post them as soon as I’ve got them done, as well as some more detailed commentary about the event. Mike Mike Dalecki  RSG-Wisconsin 2001 Pics:  http://dalecki.net/rsgwis I do not patronize spammers!  Help keep RSG clean. Expect the same etiquette from me on RSG as on the golf course. RSG Roll Call:  http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/daleckim.htm

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I’m working on my pics (I’ve got some great ones) and I’ll post them as soon as I’ve got them done, as well as some more detailed commentary about the event.  

Oh great. Well, fuck ME.

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I’m working on my pics (I’ve got some great ones) and I’ll post them as soon as I’ve got them done, as well as some more detailed commentary about the event. Oh great. Well, fuck ME.

Remember that old TV show called "You asked for it?"   Just remember that you did.  I’m about halfway through editing the pics and putting them into a coherent format.  Well, as coherent as I can at this point. Mike Mike Dalecki  RSG-Wisconsin 2001 Info:  http://dalecki.net/rsgwis I do not patronize spammers!  Help keep RSG clean. Expect the same etiquette from me on RSG as on the golf course. RSG Roll Call:  http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/daleckim.htm

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It is becoming increasingly irritating to me that I would have to fly 2000+ miles to get to one of these RSG-events.  We need something I can get to.  RSG-ABQ … or something. ….   -joseph – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I made it back from RSG-Atlanta and our trip to Disney World.  Mostly in one piece. I have to tell you–I have never had as much fun on a vacation as I did at RSG-Atlanta.

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It is becoming increasingly irritating to me that I would have to fly 2000+ miles to get to one of these RSG-events.  We need something I can get to.  RSG-ABQ … or something. ….

The same thing goes on in the fly fishing group.  Schedule it, and they will come….

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I would attend that. U of NM has a great course, I am told. How about RSG Farmington ? I’ve always wanted to play Pi

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Fish report from Lake Isabella, California The bass bite is wide open on waterdogs and crawdads. A few fish on the big trout plugs and big plastics. Anglers are reporting catches of 15 to 20 fish per day, mostly in shallow water. Quite a few fish to 10-0 reported. The LakeIsabella Trout Derby will be April 15-17. There continues to be a fair trout bite at the dam. There is also a good catfish bite at Engineer’s Point and dam on shad and clams. Eric Cherry, Bakersfield, caught a stringer of cats from 2-0 to 3-0 on chicken liver and shrimp. Crappie and bluegill still slow. The trout bite remains good at Democrat Dam, Hobo and Richbar areas of the Kern River. DFG plants this week, two weeks ago, and four weeks ago. Salmon eggs, crickets, and nightcrawlers still the best baits, and a variety of lures are working. Also a few cats showing. Nicholas Whitesell, Bakersfield, landed a 5-12 catfish on anchovies. The bass action is also improving in the river with some quality fish showing from the bigger pools. Flows have been 585 to 72Ocfs. Aqueduct: Just fair striper action with a few bigger fish showing on Big Macs or other big plugs and minnows. Some smaller fish on bloodworms. A few cats starting  to show on shad, minnows, and anchovies. Michael Mays, Bakersfield, landed a 16-0 cat on minnows. Carlos Luna, Bakersfield, landed a 16-0 striper on a Castaic Soft Bait bluegill. Posted by: Rex http://www.lakeisabella.net

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Netminder wrote Fish report from Lake Isabella, California

[snip] I tried flyfishing there a week ago (never done that before) and got skunked.  I fished the stickups at the east end of Stine cove. Any recommendations on fly fishing the lake in a float tube?  (besides making sure I’m out of the water before 1 <g): patterns?  … areas? —                                                       -dnc-

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BTW Dave you have obviously forgotten the true king of sportfish the steelhead. I’ll take their tail walking antics and consecutive 100 yard screaming runs anyday Stevo the braggart Have you hooked a chinook?

Yup, up to 45 lbs. (unfortunately I have yet to get a real big one), but they rarely break the surface, preferring to sulk deep and do their running near the bottom. Unbelievable power though. Of  the species I’ve caught ( I admit to being an Atlantic virgin), steelhead are the most unpredictable, one second they are sulking deep, the next the line is slack and they are doing five or six consecutive jumps and then off for another long run right on the surface. unbelievable! Stevo the experienced (yah right)

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Now why would those in the east want to stock those damn silly, wimp western salmon that only procreate once then leave their rotting, stinking carcasses in the water, when they have their own robust salmon that can procreate many times? Chris Richer (east of the flat spot) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – BTW Dave, being a naive westerner (we don’t get out much) which landlocked "introduced from the great waters of British Columbia" species are we talking about? Stevo the wanderer (NOT) <g Dave L.

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Steve Cooper: <<BTW Dave, being a naive westerner (we don’t get out much) which landlocked "introduced from the great waters of British Columbia" species are we talking about? Ouananiche.  The Atlantic Salmon that is land-locked.  It’s also known as the Lake Salmon.  The largest I have caught was about 7 pounds, but I have heard of much bigger fish, especially in Labrador and Quebec.  It didn’t come from BC either.  <g Dave LaCourse

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Yup, up to 45 lbs. (unfortunately I have yet to get a real big one), but they rarely break the surface, preferring to sulk deep and do their running near the bottom. Unbelievable power though.

I’ve seen plenty of hooked chinook jump & splash.  Saw a 20+ lber come about 3 feet out of the water last Thursday on the Pere Marquette in Michigan.  Maybe the fish here are different.  They tend to darken up really quick.  I’ve seen lots of photos of silver fish caught out of western rivers. Mu

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Ouananiche.  The Atlantic Salmon that is land-locked.  It’s also known as the Lake Salmon.  The largest I have caught was about 7 pounds, but I have heard of much bigger fish, especially in Labrador and Quebec.  It didn’t come from BC either.  <g

Is that the Sebago Lake strain?  Also, what’s a Sunapee? Mu

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Mu Young: <<Is that the Sebago Lake strain?  Also, what’s a Sunapee? No.  Not coming out of lakes/rivers in Labrador! I believe the Sunapee is actually a land-locked Arctic Char (Salvelinus alpinus).  It’s called the Blueback Trout in some Maine waters. Dave

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Yup, up to 45 lbs. (unfortunately I have yet to get a real big one), but they rarely break the surface, preferring to sulk deep and do their running near the bottom. Unbelievable power though. I’ve seen plenty of hooked chinook jump & splash.  Saw a 20+ lber come about 3 feet out of the water last Thursday on the Pere Marquette in Michigan.  Maybe the fish here are different.  They tend to darken up really quick.  I’ve seen lots of photos of silver fish caught out of western rivers. Mu

  That’s only because its alot easier to jump out of your waters and tailwalk, being so full of chemicals and all <g…. Hey look on the bright side another 10 years or so and you won’t even need a boat to go fishing on the "lakes" "lake michigan…..too thick to drink, too thin to plow" Stevo the troller

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Steve Cooper: <<BTW Dave, being a naive westerner (we don’t get out much) which landlocked "introduced from the great waters of British Columbia" species are we talking about? Ouananiche.  The Atlantic Salmon that is land-locked.  It’s also known as the Lake Salmon.

Oh you mean those big trout (genus Salmo) The largest I have caught was about 7 pounds, but I have heard of much bigger fish, especially in Labrador and Quebec.  It didn’t come from BC either.  <g Dave LaCourse

  Cheers

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Steve Cooper: <<Oh you mean those big trout (genus Salmo) Yep!  One and the same.  <g

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Steve Cooper: <<Oh you mean those big trout (genus Salmo) Yep!  One and the same.  <g

Ah hell before you know it I’ll be able to catch those on the West coast as well. Just let our salmon farms screw up and have a few more large escapements like the 30,000 yearlings that just escaped a Port McNiel farm, or the 60,000 smolts involuntarily released in Washington’s Puget Sound, and we may have to beat these things off our lines just to get at a good natural wild salmon.

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BTW Dave you have obviously forgotten the true king of sportfish the steelhead. I’ll take their tail walking antics and consecutive 100 yard screaming runs anyday Stevo the braggart

Have you hooked a chinook? Ian Scott http://flyfishing.about.com/

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Have you hooked a chinook?

No, but I did once know a guy who tried to drown a brown, get nookie brom a brookie, and pass a bass!

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I did’nt forget them.  It was about Atlantic salmon, "King of the Sportfish".  I agree about steelies.  They are one of the best (of course)! Land locked salmon are also right up there.  Although they don’t get too big in Maine, they are a ball to watch tail walking. (I hope this doesn’t start a thread:  *MY* fish is better’n your fish!

But,… but,… but…. my fish IS better than your fish…… and my dad can so nyah, nyah, nyah, nyah nyah. BTW Dave, being a naive westerner (we don’t get out much) which landlocked "introduced from the great waters of British Columbia" species are we talking about? Stevo the wanderer (NOT) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <g Dave L.

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Sheldonn Michael Pardy writes: <<If anyone wants some real flyfishing fun, come to Newfoundland, and go for some of our Atlantic salmon. These fish have a lot of fight, and I once had one fighting for one and a half hours. 10 whopping pounds!!! That beats bass any day. Uhhhhhh, you fought a 10 pound fish for 1 1/2 hours?  What ever happened to the old rule of a pound a minute?  I realize Atlantic Salmon are the fighters of all time, but an hour and a half.  Seems exceedingly long, sir.  I will agree about the bass, however. Dave L.

 Dave Not just exceedingly long, but lethal as well. Although Atlantics are well known for both their fighting prowess and tenacity towards survival, this fish if released was probably dead shortly thereafter. The lactic acid buildup in the muscular tissues (remember that salmonids are basically on BIG muscle) would likely have been lethal. Nothing to be particularly of, Sheldon. BTW Dave you have obviously forgotten the true king of sportfish the steelhead. I’ll take their tail walking antics and consecutive 100 yard screaming runs anyday Stevo the braggart

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1.5 hours? You are full of shit. Next time you take an assignment as a flack, learn how to lie creditably. Dave

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Steve Cooper: <<BTW Dave you have obviously forgotten the true king of sportfish the steelhead. I’ll take their tail walking antics and consecutive 100 yard screaming runs anyday I did’nt forget them.  It was about Atlantic salmon, "King of the Sportfish".  I agree about steelies.  They are one of the best (of course)! Land locked salmon are also right up there.  Although they don’t get too big in Maine, they are a ball to watch tail walking.   (I hope this doesn’t start a thread:  *MY* fish is better’n your fish! <g Dave L.

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David Snedeker, the scribe, writes: <<1.5 hours? You are full of shit. Next time you take an assignment as a flack, learn how to lie creditably. ROFL.  Don’t mix your words, David.  Tell the fool *exactly* what you think of him.  That’s what I love about you, David; you are about as subtle as a nuclear weapon.  <g Dave L. (the calm Dave)  d;0)

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One and a half hours to land a ten pound fish???  I think, perhaps, that you need a bit heavier outfit.  If you want to be in a position to release salmon and steelhead in some degree of health, you have to get them in and released in a lot less time.  I suspect that your ten pound Atlantic Salmon was one that you kept.  If not, I doubt if he lived very long after being released. Barry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If anyone wants some real flyfishing fun, come to Newfoundland, and go for some of our Atlantic salmon. These fish have a lot of fight, and I once had one fighting for one and a half hours. 10 whopping pounds!!! That beats bass any day.

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        If anyone wants some real flyfishing fun, come to Newfoundland, and go for some of our Atlantic salmon. These fish have a lot of fight, and I once had one fighting for one and a half hours. 10 whopping pounds!!! That beats bass any day.

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Sheldon, Sounds like fun. When is the best time to go? Bob Elliott, Rochester, NY – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If anyone wants some real flyfishing fun, come to Newfoundland, and go for some of our Atlantic salmon. These fish have a lot of fight, and I once had one fighting for one and a half hours. 10 whopping pounds!!! That beats bass any day.

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        If anyone wants some real flyfishing fun, come to Newfoundland, and go for some of our Atlantic salmon. …

I’d love to. When the provincial government repeals those pernicious guide laws I’ll drop a dime in Newfoundland and Labrador too. Until then, I won’t fish there. — Ken Fortenberry Illini 3 – Tar Heels 1

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Hey, Something fishy here.  If you took that long to land a little 10 pounder, you were abusing the fish and probably harming its chances of survival (assuming that you released it). Regards, Yuji Sakuma – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –         If anyone wants some real flyfishing fun, come to Newfoundland, and go for some of our Atlantic salmon. These fish have a lot of fight, and I once had one fighting for one and a half hours. 10 whopping pounds!!! That beats bass any day.

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Sheldonn Michael Pardy writes:

<<If anyone wants some real flyfishing fun, come to Newfoundland, and go for some of our Atlantic salmon. These fish have a lot of fight, and I once had one fighting for one and a half hours. 10 whopping pounds!!! That beats bass any day. Uhhhhhh, you fought a 10 pound fish for 1 1/2 hours?  What ever happened to the old rule of a pound a minute?  I realize Atlantic Salmon are the fighters of all time, but an hour and a half.  Seems exceedingly long, sir.  I will agree about the bass, however. Dave L.

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<a bunch of stuff he should have proof read first!!!!! Not just exceedingly long, but lethal as well. Although Atlantics are well known for both their fighting prowess and tenacity towards survival, this fish if released was probably dead shortly thereafter. The lactic acid buildup in the muscular tissues (remember that salmonids are basically on

<<<that should be ONE not on BIG muscle) would likely have been lethal. Nothing to be particularly of, Sheldon.

That should be "not particularly PROUD of, Sheldon" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – BTW Dave you have obviously forgotten the true king of sportfish the steelhead. I’ll take their tail walking antics and consecutive 100 yard screaming runs anyday Stevo the braggart

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Late Sunday morning, he’s puttin’ on Teva sandals. That means one of two things, either he’s going to wash the car or maybe, just maybe. Best to follow him around and see what he’s up to. Poking around in the study, this is a good sign. What’s this ? He’s grabbed a fly rod, WE’RE GOIN’ FISHIN’ !

Back to the "taking dogs fishing" thread, are we?  Nice report, Ken. Mark Faulkner

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Late Sunday morning, he’s puttin’ on Teva sandals. That means one of two things, either he’s going to wash the car or maybe, just maybe. Best to follow him around and see what he’s up to. Poking around in the study, this is a good sign. What’s this ? He’s grabbed a fly rod, WE’RE GOIN’ FISHIN’ ! Kipper’s my good fishin’ buddy, he’s a shelter mutt and when we adopted him he was 16 lbs of gangly puppy and the Humane Society told us he was a pointer mix. He looks more like a long legged fox hound to me, but now at not quite 3 years of age and a healthy 60 lbs his pedigree is less important than proper canoe etiquette. We had plenty of opportunity to practice yesterday. Right after we put in a big blue heron took exception to our presence and flew off with a whoosh of the wings and a disdainful squonk. Paddling through the twisty passage between Donut Pond and Highway Pond we surprised a deer that went crashing through the brush and rounding a corner on the far edge of the pond we came upon a nonchalant racoon that by turns ignored us and taunted poor Kipper with a casual strut. He did OK, there was some squeaking, of course but no full throated barking and no running about in the canoe. Much better behavior in contrast to just a few weeks ago when mama goose, papa goose and the little goslings almost caused a capsize. Even after I sternly told him "ENOUGH" and quieted the barking he still felt it necessary to continue grumbling sotto voce at the geese. I caught a bunch of bluegill on a yellow foam ant and a feisty little 1.5lb bass to boot, nice fun on a 3wt. Put the bass back, cleaned up the bluegill and put them in the freezer for the big fish fry. — Ken Fortenberry

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We developed SneakPeek postings as a result of many Usenet users’ desire for a summarizing tool that would help them skim through the most active threads.  Thus, SneakPeek postings are intended to help users with limited time keep abreast of group discussions, stay in touch with more groups, and check out new groups quickly. Usenet is an environment where every voice should count equally.  However, while some users have found SneakPeek postings useful, others have tried to shout it down, potentially resulting in the tyranny of a vocal few. Therefore, we encourage all to post their constructive opinions so that we may democratically decide if there is room for SneakPeek postings in Usenet. Talkway, Inc. http://www.talkway.com The rest of this message summarizes the most active recent threads in this newsgroup. *** Jonathan Cook:  … First, we have been consistent that "selective harvest" is OK. So, throwing back small ones (or big ones) is not a problem. Since I cannot always target an exact fish like I can say, a deer, throwing back those out of the regulated keepable sizes or species is fine.  … *** eaguilr:  … I am very curious about your evidence that suggests that most C&K fishers gon only once a month or less.  What is yor dats source on this?  how do you know this?  … *** Ralph H:  … RESPONSE GENERATED BY AUTO-BOT I don’t have a problem with these basic propositions. I don’t have a problem with replacing most c&r or zero retention waters with a restricited  slot limit. I wouldn’t have a probl;em with applying that to more delicate populations like steehead as long as the slot enacted  … *** Jonathan McAnulty:  … One thing you might consider is the type of water you intend to paddle. A sea kayak is not very good for any rivers with rapids (even easy rapids) that require fast turns to be made. Also, rocky rivers may damage the boat if it is made of fiberglass/gelcoat. Since most sea  … *** DavPLaC: Jon writes, in part: rocky rivers or ones that require more maneuvering you may want to consider some of the high-volume plastic whitewater kayaks or a sit on top whitewater kayak. These can be plenty big enough and will take a lot  … *** Jonathan McAnulty:  … Here’s a few things to think about. First, materials: fiberglass is a better performer because its stiffer but it breaks easier and requires more repair. However, it is easier to repair if you need it. Plastic is much tougher. The uses you describe are unlikely to ever need to have  … *** info: Monday, August 17, 1998     4:26:33 AM Please, could you tell me what a Patriot Fly is?  Perhaps a short description  I have not heard of this pattern and it has piqued my interest.  … *** W.D.Grey:  … Hook            TMC 7999, Mustad 36890, sizes2-6 Thread          Black 6/0 prewaxed Tail            Red hackle fibres Rib             Fine oval silver tinsel  … *** Vincent Norris:  … The pattern Charlie presents on pages 197-8 of his  book, _Patterns, Hatches, Tactics, and Trout_, is entirely different from the one submitted above: Hook:    Mustad 94833, sizes #10-18 Thread:  Red Tails:   Brown hackle fibers Body:    Smolt blue Krystal Flash wound around the shank.  … *** Harry Mason:  … In retrospect:  …   A bit trite but it has some merit *** asadi: if you want to eat fish –  go to the grocery and get farm raised fish…the pressure is too great to sustain any but C and R.  … *** Moe Skeeter:  … This is the first mantra excerpted from the TU brainwashing tapes "Are you Lefty ?". *** Jonathan Cook:  … If there was only one white-only drinking fountain, would that make it OK? *** dave bottom:  … Stupid hyperbole. Not the same thing. Letting F&W manage waters with special regs to ensure that the fish survive makes sense to me. Now saying that I’d also like to say that as a parent of some kids, who don’t fly cast very well, having all/most/lots of water be special regs can be a hassle when trying to get your kid worming up some  … *** RLPPT: The situation in Pennsylvania is more complex than the substance of the original post.  A small but vocal group here called "TAP" (Traditional Anglers of Pennsylvania) are issuing a challenge that I always felt would eventually come..  Why are some of the best trout streams on public land managed under  … Talkway, Inc. http://www.talkway.com

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[completely snipped: who needs it?] Talk about irony: the one endless thread that no roffian can escape is presented in Reader’s Digest fashion to the group that spawned the original. A mass of helpless bytes were thus senselessly slaughtered… What a waste… /dave <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< < Digital Equipment Corp.               Alpha Server Engineering < < Parker Street Campus                      Maynard, Massachusetts < < !!NOTE: Please replace "xxx" with "dec" to respond by email!!  < <<<<<<<<<<<<<< AMA 548313 <<<<<<<<<<<<<< Disclaimer: Opinion and content is mine alone, and unlikely to be                     shared by my employer, etc…

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Pick up the latest edition of Western Fly Fishing. There is a piece on "Wine Country Steelhead" that might interest you.

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I’m looking for information on fly fishing in the California "Wine country" area.  Where to go during early April.

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I’m looking for information on fly fishing in the California "Wine country" area.  Where to go during early April.

The Russian river has smallmouth bass, maybe some early shad and maybe a couple of stripers at this time? Good bass pond if you can get on them. Coastal winter steelheading is over in March. Trout season in Sierras opens the last Saturday in April but water will be high. Some lake will be OK for trout. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

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Question:

(Curtis Quist) writes: I am looking at moving to the Portland area.  I am tired of the mid-west and the lack of ff for trout in my area.  How much fishing is available within 60 minutes of Portland.  On a scale of 1-10, how good is the fishing in this area. Thanks in advance, Curtis

You could flyfish everyday of the year with a good expectation of catching fish.  What more could a mortal want?

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I am looking at moving to the Portland area.  I am tired of the mid-west and the lack of ff for trout in my area.  How much fishing is available within 60 minutes of Portland.  On a scale of 1-10, how good is the fishing in this area. Thanks in advance, Curtis

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (Curtis Quist) writes: I am looking at moving to the Portland area.  I am tired of the mid-west and the lack of ff for trout in my area.  How much fishing is available within 60 minutes of Portland.  On a scale of 1-10, how good is the fishing in this area. Thanks in advance, Curtis You could flyfish everyday of the year with a good expectation of catching fish.  What more could a mortal want?

Let’s be clearer.  You can flyfish for trout, you can fly fish for steelhead, you can fly fish for salmon, you can flyfish for small mouth and large mouth bass, a few bluegills, and surf fish.  Driving a little further, you can get stripers, the Deschutes ( a fair to middling river), the various high Oregon lakes.   I lived in Portland a few years back, and was so snooty, I wouldn’t drive more than forty five minutes.  Fished 150 days one of those years.  Caught a few.  Had a lot of fun.  That was before the kids came along… Seattle is OK, too.

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