Question:

Hello: Re-stocking time. Still a few trees I haven’t fully decorated that I plan on attacking next spring. Anyone notice in any of the catalogs any place that offers Woolly Buggers tied Clouser style with metal eyes? Can’t seem to find in any catalog I presently have. Thanks, Bob

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello: Re-stocking time. Still a few trees I haven’t fully decorated that I plan on attacking next spring. Anyone notice in any of the catalogs any place that offers Woolly Buggers tied Clouser style with metal eyes? Can’t seem to find in any catalog I presently have. Thanks, Bob

can’t imagine they’d be all that hard to find.  most shops have the ability to get them from the multitude of wholesale fly producers now available.  it may take a little time, but i’m sure your local shop can get some for you. of course, a wooley bugger is about as easy to tie as any fly, and adding lead eyes is easy… also, many buggers are now being tied with coneheads instead of the lead-eyes. cb

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Hello: Re-stocking time. Still a few trees I haven’t fully decorated that I plan on attacking next spring. Anyone notice in any of the catalogs any place that offers Woolly Buggers tied Clouser style with metal eyes?

This is one of my favorite flys. I tie it in sizes from 12 up to 0/2. I like yellow body with white hackle. It’s a killer for big bass. It’s really too easy to tie to bother with buying it. You could tie enough for a season while watching the Simpson’s.

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cb said<<also, many buggers are now being tied with coneheads instead of the lead-eyes. The advantage to the lead-eyes (barrel) is that it makes the hook ride upside down making it more weedless.

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Bob – Are you wanting to buy some or just looking for a recipe? Gary – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hello: Re-stocking time. Still a few trees I haven’t fully decorated that I plan on attacking next spring. Anyone notice in any of the catalogs any place that offers Woolly Buggers tied Clouser style with metal eyes? Can’t seem to find in any catalog I presently have. Thanks, Bob

Gary Miller, Moderator To subscribe, send an e-mail to: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<)))}"Catch ‘em all…Put ‘em back!<"{(((<

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Question:

I have heard that the fishing for stripers can be good right through November. Can anyone point me to a source of information about this.  It would be helpful to know: How late the fish are generally around. Where you can launch a boat from and safely leave your truck and trailer. What tides and locations are best. Thanks for info. JK

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Http://www.reel-time.com  Check the FishWire Reports.  Weekly NY saltwater fly fishing reports. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have heard that the fishing for stripers can be good right through November. Can anyone point me to a source of information about this.  It would be helpful to know: How late the fish are generally around. Where you can launch a boat from and safely leave your truck and trailer. What tides and locations are best. Thanks for info. JK

Response:

Question:

We have 3 balloons off the back of the boat with live bait fishing for Kings.

Can anybody tell me what this means? I’m not being able to picture the balloon part. Nets? Actual balloons? Just curious–thanks. Mart

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We have 3 balloons off the back of the boat with live bait fishing for Kings. Can anybody tell me what this means? I’m not being able to picture the balloon part. Nets? Actual balloons? Just curious–thanks. Mart

Sure. He’s using partially inflated balloons as "corks" to float his live baits within a certain range of the top of the water. The balloons are easy to see and when a smoker takes the bait and runs, the balloon goes under. This is a common tactic for bass fishermen, too. They’ll attach a nice live shiner to a hook, tie a balloon a couple of feet above it and let the bass gobble the shiner and take the balloon under. Balloons also present one with a way to take advantage of wind or current. There’s also kite fishing. — Harry Krause – - – - – - – - – - – - Ignorance or Apathy?  I don’t know and I don’t care.

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Path: lobby01.news.aol.com!newstf02.news.aol.com!portc03.blue.aol.com!newsfeed.

cwix.com!4.1.16.34!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!wn3feed!world net.att.net!135.173.83.225!attworldnet!newsadm – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Newsgroups: rec.boats Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services Lines: 12 NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.77.208.219 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Classic example, I’m out on Pasco #1 off Tarpon Springs, Florida today.  We have 3 balloons off the back of the boat with live bait fishing for Kings. What pulls up behind us?  Yes a Trophy, your average dimwit, amateur within inches of our balloons.  After I had a couple of choice words with the captain (retard) we pulled off to a better area….with no Trophys around and managed to bag two keeper grouper.  So you see now why I JUST LOVE TROPHYS Rob

Rob, If he were driving a Hatteras or other mega, overpriced boat, would his move have been any more acceptable?  No, of course not. I had an Ocean Alexander skipper drift into my boat that was moored and unattended.  He hit it rail to rail and neither boat sustained much damage but do I hate Ocean Alexander boats because of it?  Not hardly. Focus your anger at the novice who didn’t know what he was doing, not at his fine, quality made, very reliable, structurly sound, efficient and absolutely beautiful boat!!! Bill Landsborough "A fool finds no pleasure in understanding but delights in airing his own opinions." Proverbs 18:2

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Or even know how to put it on.

Excellent Nathan! Capt. Gary S. Colecchio West Palm Beach, Florida "Lie ? Me ? Never!  No, no, no, the truth is far too much fun !" – Captain Hook

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By the way, there is a downside to using balloons. Many of them are discarded in the water and unfortunately some sea creatures that eat jellyfish (like turtles) snarf them down and can’t digest them. They die. This used to happen with condoms, I suppose, but no turtle with a brain would go near any of those disease-laden wrappers.

Or even know how to put it on.

Response:

Thank you. I appreciate your willingness to supply me with helpful information despite my occasional indignation at your whimsical contrarian nature. I have observed this civil trait in you repeatedly and I respect it. I think balloons and kites are beyond me, though I do like to picture showing up at my normal fishing spots with such equipment, and fastening on a fly, worm, little minnow, or kernel of corn. Mart

By the way, there is a downside to using balloons. Many of them are discarded in the water and unfortunately some sea creatures that eat jellyfish (like turtles) snarf them down and can’t digest them. They die. This used to happen with condoms, I suppose, but no turtle with a brain would go near any of those disease-laden wrappers. — Harry Krause – - – - – - – - – - – - Gee, I wonder what this key does.

Response:

Thank you. I appreciate your willingness to supply me with helpful information despite my occasional indignation at your whimsical contrarian nature. I have observed this civil trait in you repeatedly and I respect it. I think balloons and kites are beyond me, though I do like to picture showing up at my normal fishing spots with such equipment, and fastening on a fly, worm, little minnow, or kernel of corn. Mart

Mart, Believe it or not, they even sell different sized kites to use depending on the wind conditions!  I don’t bother with kites, but I’ve been fishing with a guy who does and it works quite well. What Harry didn’t mention is you use the kite while drifting.  BTW, shore fishermen also use kites to get their bait out farther than they can cast… Depending on the direction the wind is blowing, of course.  :) Dennis

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sure. He’s using partially inflated balloons as "corks" to float his live baits within a certain range of the top of the water… Thanks. Same idea as the little still fishing plastic/cork/wood bobbers we sometimes use up here, only bigger and inflatable? Yes. But much more visible. It’s hard to see many corks or floats out in the ocean where the waves are. Also, by only partially inflating, a part of it slides under the water easier… There’s also kite fishing. I’ll bite on the kite: real up in the air kites? Or fishing for hawks? Mart You run out a fishing kite and then attach your fishing line with a live bait on the line. The kite keeps the bait at the surface, making those friendly struggling sounds, attracting fish. But the bait also has access to the water and can breathe. It works very well for surface feeders.

Thank you. I appreciate your willingness to supply me with helpful information despite my occasional indignation at your whimsical contrarian nature. I have observed this civil trait in you repeatedly and I respect it. I think balloons and kites are beyond me, though I do like to picture showing up at my normal fishing spots with such equipment, and fastening on a fly, worm, little minnow, or kernel of corn. Mart

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Sure. He’s using partially inflated balloons as "corks" to float his live baits within a certain range of the top of the water… Thanks. Same idea as the little still fishing plastic/cork/wood bobbers we sometimes use up here, only bigger and inflatable?

Yes. But much more visible. It’s hard to see many corks or floats out in the ocean where the waves are. Also, by only partially inflating, a part of it slides under the water easier… There’s also kite fishing. I’ll bite on the kite: real up in the air kites? Or fishing for hawks? Mart

You run out a fishing kite and then attach your fishing line with a live bait on the line. The kite keeps the bait at the surface, making those friendly struggling sounds, attracting fish. But the bait also has access to the water and can breathe. It works very well for surface feeders.

Response:

Sure. He’s using partially inflated balloons as "corks" to float his live baits within a certain range of the top of the water…

Thanks. Same idea as the little still fishing plastic/cork/wood bobbers we sometimes use up here, only bigger and inflatable? There’s also kite fishing.

I’ll bite on the kite: real up in the air kites? Or fishing for hawks? Mart – - – - – - – - – - – - "One morning when the wind was from the west, Stuart put on his sailor suit and his sailor hat, took his spyglass down from the shelf, and set out for a walk, full of the joy of life and the fear of dogs."

Response:

Classic example, I’m out on Pasco #1 off Tarpon Springs, Florida today.  We have 3 balloons off the back of the boat with live bait fishing for Kings. What pulls up behind us?  Yes a Trophy, your average dimwit, amateur within inches of our balloons.  After I had a couple of choice words with the captain (retard) we pulled off to a better area….with no Trophys around and managed to bag two keeper grouper.  So you see now why I JUST LOVE TROPHYS Rob

Maybe he wanted to transfer his flag to your boat in case his began to sink? — Harry Krause – - – - – - – - – - – - Accordion: a bagpipe with pleats.

Response:

Classic example, I’m out on Pasco #1 off Tarpon Springs, Florida today.  We have 3 balloons off the back of the boat with live bait fishing for Kings. What pulls up behind us?  Yes a Trophy, your average dimwit, amateur within inches of our balloons.  After I had a couple of choice words with the captain (retard) we pulled off to a better area….with no Trophys around and managed to bag two keeper grouper.  So you see now why I JUST LOVE TROPHYS Rob

Response:

Question:

I am only 16 and just starting to flyfish. I plan to do some fly fishing on a local stream this weekend. What are the best kinds of fly’s to use?

Hi Jared, The simple thing to do for this weekend would be to check with your local fly shop to see what info they have on the local river you plan to fish.  It’s in their best interest to help you be successfull so don’t hesitate to ask.  If they won’t give you the time of day, go to a different shop. The suggestions Donn gave you are the best for the long term though.  Learn the basic life-cycles of mayflies, caddisflies, stoneflies, and midges.  Learn to identify them.  Don’t need to know the particular species or latin name, but at least learn to tell the difference between mayflies and caddisflies, etc.  To start, ignore the latin names most books will give, though they may interest you later.   Remeber, the other spelling for entomolgy is "bugs".  Learn how to take a stream sample without destroying a lot of habitat.  What works can change from hour to hour let alone week to week and if you can identify what’s available you’ll do much better than "chuck it and chance it."  You’ll never learn it all, but you’ll have a great time trying.                                      good fishing,                                              Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

Response:

Jared, That is a question that even 66 year old men ask.  This is what fly fishing is all about and what you spend a life time doing in this sport to try to figure out.  The fly can change from one moment to the next to the next and so on.  I can change right in front of you for several hundred different reasons. Do not get overwhelmed by this but just look at it as a challenge.  Do yourself a favor and try to do a couple of the following things and it will make you a much better fly fisher. First and foremost – learn the basics of entomology; this looks hard but really isn’t.  Get with another fisherman who understands the basics and have him explain it to you.  Pick up any of many primers on this to help you. Next – Check the streams you intend to fish for what type of insects you have and when they hatch and how they act. Next – Begin gathering those insects in specimen bottles and preserving them for future studies.  Hopefully in the not too distant future, you can begin tying flies and you will have a data base to begin to copy.  Pick up some isopropyl alcohol from Wal-Mart, K-Mart or any drug store; it is very inexpensive.  Put a solution of 90% alcohol and 10% water in the vial and then add your insect and cover. Put a sticker of some kind on it and put what it is and where you got it from.  If you want to begin a diary of all this, it will help you learn faster and give you tremendous abount of your own information that is better than anything you hear or read. Next – Always be observant for changes in anything in or around the river and what effect it has on the fish and insects.  Go with other fly fishers and ask questions.   Your brain is a many giga-byte hard drive and just begin to fill it with as many bite of information as you can.  You will never come close to getting them all and just never stop; it is a life long endeavor. This is not tuff stuff and as long as you enjoy it, it will be easy and fun and make you an experinced fly fisher at the same time. Donn – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I am only 16 and just starting to flyfish. I plan to do some fly fishing on a local stream this weekend. What are the best kinds of fly’s to use? Thankyou Tight Lines, Jared Staskiel "In our family, there was no clear line between religion and                fly fishing"                     —Norman Maclean (1976)

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I am only 16 and just starting to flyfish. I plan to do some fly fishing on a local stream this weekend. What are the best kinds of fly’s to use? Thankyou Tight Lines, Jared Staskiel "In our family, there was no clear line between religion and                 fly fishing"                     —Norman Maclean (1976)

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Question:

As with anything having to do with this sport, get the best you can afford. Metz, Spencer, and a half-dozen other growers often sell half capes for about the same price as the next grade down. Unless you are tying up to professional prodution a good #2 grade half will last through several seasons. Everyone resents the initial outlay of $$$ for a good cape, but the payoff is you don’t purchase them very often. Cabela’s and other supply houses also sell decent genetic necks that are quite useful, if limited in size and color.

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how bout finding some fishin’ buddies to split some necks with….that how I started out. some times stores will sell you split necks, if you take classes from them…they can always use the other half in class or for production tying. i agree with the other respondent, however, buy the best you can..you’ll be disappointed with the #3’s for drys size 14 and smaller. happy tying,….and DON"T GIVE UP!! there aren’t enuff of us out there! #:)#  Larry Medina

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Hoffman Super Saddle. Tons of real long feathers 10 down to 18 or so. Can tie two or three flies per feather.

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I need some new hackle, I’m getting better at tieing, and the hackle from the kit sucks.  I would like to hear some opinions on which Hackle to buy.   I am leaning towards Metz grade #3 in Grizzly from Orvis (29 bucks), anyone know of a better deal let me know.  Thanks. Scott

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I thought that a grade three hackle would be better for tying wet flies than dry, but I just read an article that said that they rate the hackle by the count of usable feathers, the main size, and length. I thought that a grade 3 hackle would be softer hackle than a grade 1 or 2 is this true or are there just more usable feathers on a grade 1. Can you tye as good a dry with a grade 3 hackle as you could with grade 1.  I am simply a begginer I dont know grade 3 hackles are softer by expierience I just thought that was how it was THANKS! The factors that determine a hackle grade are numerous.  A neck or saddle are graded on the number of usable hackles, length of hackle, color, webbiness, stem diameter and uniformity of barbule lengtht. Now the problem arises when you compare hackles from two different companies.  A #2 Hoffman  may be better than a #1Metz metz.  Will a #3 be "softer"?  Well yes it may have a little, or a lot, more web depending on the company.  A #3 Hoffman will tie a good dry fly, but some of the other companies it may not.   The best thing to do is to inspect it carefully before you buy it.  Generally it can be said that you will get what you pay for. About 7 years ago I bought my first Hoffman saddle and now I am hooked.  I have currently 5 Hoffman saddles and 3 necks.  They are the only ones I use for my dries.  I know they are kinda expensive and I have a tight budget, but they are worth it.  There is nothing more frustrating to me than trying to tie a good fly with a shitty feather.   Good Luck, Marty

Hi Marty, I agree. Hoffman is only company that has saddle hackle that is small and stiff for trout dries. In the old days, we always used rooster saddles for wets and rooster necks for dries. Henry Hoffman changed that. Metz saddles are better for wet flies as they don’t seem to be stiff enough for dries. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

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  <big snip   Then Metz started to become available and Henry started to bring over some of his first "super grizzly".  This is one area where materials have only gotten better.

  Amen to that. Several months ago a guy came into the local shop carrying grampa’s tying kit. Grampa must have been a serious tyer, the kit had a lot of really nice stuff (jungle cock cape, etc), the tools and thread were all top quality from that era. The dry fly hackles were a different story altogether; the individual feathers were all tapered, the stems were thick (compared to modern hackle), and none of the feathers would tie smaller than about sz 10. Charlie

Response:

writes: Amen to that. Several months ago a guy came into the local shop carrying grampa’s tying kit. Grampa must have been a serious tyer, the kit had a lot of really nice stuff (jungle cock cape, etc), the tools and thread were all top quality from that era. The dry fly hackles were a different story altogether; the individual feathers were all tapered, the stems were thick (compared to modern hackle), and none of the feathers would tie smaller than about sz 10.

I’m not yet as old as grandpa, but a size 16 would be the smallest you could find on a neck, they would be less than an inch long, and you would need to use at 3 or 4 feathers to tie one fly.  Thought I’d died and gone to heaven when I got my first Metz #2 brown neck.  I still have it but there are no feathers left smaller than #10.                                                         Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

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writes:    Hi! I thought that a grade three hackle would be better for tying wet flies than dry, but I just read an article that said that they rate the hackle by the count of usable feathers, the main size, and length. I thought that a grade 3 hackle would be softer hackle than a grade 1 or 2 is this true or are there just more usable feathers on a grade 1. Can you tye as good a dry with a grade 3 hackle as you could with grade 1.  I am simply a begginer I dont know grade 3 hackles are softer by expierience I just thought that was how it was THANKS!

Hi Dolph, As others have said here, none of the growers grade on the same standards.  But within a particular brand, there is a big difference between a #1 and a #3. Historically (this is all subject to change), the #1 necks had higher feather counts, smaller sizes, less webbing, longer length feathers (more useable feather), more flexible stems,  rounder stems, and denser barb counts on the feather (more barbs per inch).  Usually the biggest difference between 1 and 2’s is the quantity of small sizes – more of the 20 through 24 sizes on the #1’s.  Often the #1’s don’t have useable size 10 or 12 feathers because the stems are too thick.  #3 necks often have more webbing than 1’s or 2’s but not always.  Most often the biggest difference between 2’s and 3’s is that the stems on the 3’s are stiffer, and sometimes oblong instead of round.  This makes them very tough to wind. The grading system is hardly perfect and you can often look through a batch of #2’s and find some that are as good as the #1’s and #’3s that are as good as 2’s.   Nothing compares to the Hoffman’s necks.  Their #2’s are comparable to just about anyone elses #1’s.  The saddles make great dry fly tying feathers but primarily have only 2 sizes on them.  The necks have a wide assortment of sizes.  Haven’t seen any saddles that will compare with the Hoffman’s for dry flys. For wet flies I still use hen neck feathers.  They are shorter and have more rounded tips.  These are always webby and fold easily for that swept back look on wets.  Used to be able to find them easily and they were cheap.  Haven’t seen many in recent years.  Get them if you can find them, they are a far better choice for wet flies than rooster necks. We are spoiled today with the necks available.  I remember when indian capes were all that you could get.  I would take a trip over to Tigard, OR once in a while just to paw through Kaufmann’s capes.  Lance and Randall would go over to India each year, select their own stock, and bring it back.  Then Metz started to become available and Henry started to bring over some of his first "super grizzly".  This is one area where materials have only gotten better.                          Good Tying,                               Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

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When you use TWO on a dry fly, you need to take a size 16 (for example) feather from the right side of a cape and the left side.   Mr. G.

Good post.   I’m curious about your left/right suggestion.  I never make any effort to use feathers from opposite sides of the cape when double wrapping. Could you elaborate more on why this is useful? Regards, Joe.  

Response:

        Hi! I thought that a grade three hackle would be better for tying wet flies than dry, but I just read an article that said that they rate the hackle by the count of usable feathers, the main size, and length. I thought that a grade 3 hackle would be softer hackle than a grade 1 or 2 is this true or are there just more usable feathers on a grade 1. Can you tye as good a dry with a grade 3 hackle as you could with grade 1.  I am simply a begginer I dont know grade 3 hackles are softer by expierience I just thought that was how it was THANKS!                                         Dolph

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This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DEAR BUZZARD:  You happen to ask a question that I must rise too.  It is an excellent question.  May I add a few thoughts to get this discussion going? The observation is keen that different hackle manufacturers are indeed grading their hackles differently.  In fact, I doubt the lot of them ever got together and came up with a standard that rates necks from different companies to the same matching-game.  Everyone should give this some thought. Frankly Buzzard, you’re going to have to become a good judge of hackle/necks yourself.  There are certain things you must always pay attention too and I’m not about to cover them all here and now.  But each tier has certain patterns that require different advantages from feathers.  They can be softness, hardness, webbing, lack of webbing, short feathers, long feathers, narrow and wide, the combinations are endless and all feathers have a use in fly tying in one fly or another. Remembe this.  Never throw them away. Besides colors (any color) A feather for DRY FLY FISHING is different in desired aspects than hen feathers for wet flies, nymphs, streamers, etc. BUT!  A hen feather doesn’t necessarily mean it is a feather of less worth. I (personally) won’t settle for a number two neck when for a few dollars more I will be happier with a number one (1)!  The difference between a two and a one can be miles apart even though the numbers are next to each other.  Numbers mean different values to different people.  In grading feathers (Cock necks) throw the number system out the window. Waste it.  It means nothing between manufacturers, BUT with a specific manufacturer such as Hoffman necks, it can be a very reliable numbering system because of one factor.  Hoffman Products (now raised in Grand Junction Colorado) are CONSISTANT and TIGHT in quality.  Whereas; Metz Necks vary with the wind and each chicken season.  Quality always suffers when production increases beyond supervisory abilities.  Hate to say it, but its true. A DRY FLY FEATHER must have certain factors for each tier.  Length, evenly wide hackles, very little webbing, barbel stiffness, sharp tips (not curled on the ends, etc.) flexiable (not brittle) stems, maturity, (in look and feel)  and when you inspect a neck, make sure the skin isn’t brittle so it will crack when bent a little.  (Use some gink on the skin back to keep it from drying out.  Excellent for this, incidently.  And please everyone, don’t slam me for offering a friendly fact) So, basically, today . . .  because of neck retail prices, the trend is splitting a Hoffman neck.  When you buy a split, you are getting only right handed or left  handed bends in feathers.  When you use TWO on a dry fly, you need to take a size 16 (for example) feather from the right side of a cape and the left side.  So, what I’m saying, is . . . if at all possible, always buy the complete neck if its financially comfortable or possible. I’ll let everyone take it from here. Mr. G.         Hi! I thought that a grade three hackle would be better for tying wet flies than dry, but I just read an article that said that they rate the hackle by the count of usable feathers, the main size, and length. I thought that a grade 3 hackle would be softer hackle than a grade 1 or 2 is this true or are there just more usable feathers on a grade 1. Can you tye as good a dry with a grade 3 hackle as you could with grade 1.  I am simply a begginer I dont know grade 3 hackles are softer by expierience I just thought that was how it was THANKS!                                         Dolph

Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Mr. G. Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin:          vcard fn:             Mr. G. n:              ;Mr. G. org:            Gehrke’s Fly Fishing Products title:          President note:           Do something, even if it’s right x-mozilla-cpt:  ;0 x-mozilla-html: FALSE end:            vcard

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Question:

OK – Now that I have you attention. I looking at buying a new flylline,  the guy  in the shop reckons Mastery flylines are the way to go – are they better than the 444 cortland? If you have any other recomendations I would appreciate it. In addition I am considering buying a  5-6 weight  5 piece , 8′6 Shakespeare  fly rod-  they aren’t a sage but for the price (around $NZ 165) they seem OK.  Does anyone out there own one – if so what do you think of it? PS could you reply to my email addess as my News Feed is sporadic AT BEST. Cheers Steve Christchurch NEW ZEALAND- The place where the BIG   trout live.  

Response:

I bought Cortland Lazer Line last year, for $50 it made me a pro!  No memory, just great.  I recommend it! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OK – Now that I have you attention. I looking at buying a new flylline,  the guy  in the shop reckons Mastery flylines are the way to go – are they better than the 444 cortland? If you have any other recomendations I would appreciate it. In addition I am considering buying a  5-6 weight  5 piece , 8′6 Shakespeare  fly rod-  they aren’t a sage but for the price (around $NZ 165) they seem OK.  Does anyone out there own one – if so what do you think of it? PS could you reply to my email addess as my News Feed is sporadic AT BEST. Cheers Steve Christchurch NEW ZEALAND- The place where the BIG   trout live.  

Response:

ASS to removing the hook,simply freeze the area with ice,then pull it with a piece of monofilament at the bend of the hook while pushing the eye of the hook down.hope this helps!!!  :0

Response:

ASS to removing the hook,simply freeze the area with ice,then pull it with a piece of monofilament at the bend of the hook while pushing the eye of the hook down.hope this helps!!!  :0

One can only hope the hook was debarbed. And I think perhaps we can all agree that in this case C & R is the best approach….unless you want to give it a good whack to dispatch it…. ohh man I must really be bored

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Question:

When I hunt I do not wear camo. I do not use scent-b-gon washes for my clothes. I do not spray doe estrus everywhere, or play taped hen turkey calls on a portable deck. I DO, however, use a double-barreled shotgun which was manufactured in 1990, modern magnum loads, and electric socks.

Forgive my ignorance, but what are electric socks? Michael Smith

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Which begs a question of all who have been involved in the ’strike indicator’ controversy: What is it about fly fishing that appeals most to you? Those who relish the streamside strategy, the endless presentations into pools you just KNOW are full of trout, a cold cheese sandwich and a smoke for lunch amid the splendor of our natural settings…those are the ones I feel more akin to, and for whose sportsmen’s ethos I have the utmost respect. However, for those who consider a day without an entry into the log book of either a catch or a kill a wasted day, you are the ones who are, in my opinion, missing the point. You might as well be using dynamite on the fish and bazookas on deer. So, if I am mistaken in wanting to change the focus of this debate from hardware, then flame me at will. However, if in truth the true debate is found in the ethos of the sportsman, consider yourself well and weigh in with your position. W.E.S. Harman Virginia Commonwealth University Richmond, Virginia "L’ecrivain original n’est pas celui qui n’imite personne, mais celui que personne ne peut imiter." (The original writer is not he who refrains from imitating others, but he who can be imitated by none.) – Francois-Rene De Chateaubriand,  "Genie du Christianisme"

I’m sorry, but the issue should be not what technology is used, but rather the attitude and the intend with which it is employed.  The purist takes issue with the uninitiated to avoid having to share, as by sharing, in his mind, he is reduced. Peter

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When I hunt I do not wear camo. I do not use scent-b-gon washes for my clothes. I do not spray doe estrus everywhere, or play taped hen turkey calls on a portable deck. I DO, however, use a double-barreled shotgun which was manufactured in 1990, modern magnum loads, and electric socks. Forgive my ignorance, but what are electric socks? Michael Smith

You don’t want to know unless your sure your waders don’t leak. Mike

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -As an all-around outdoor sports kind of guy, I find myself in the company of hunters and fishermen quite a bit. I consider myself something of a traditionalist, largely due only to the fact that I find that technology often has the effect of taking the sport out of being a sportsman. When I hunt I do not wear camo. I do not use scent-b-gon washes for my clothes. I do not spray doe estrus everywhere, or play taped hen turkey calls on a portable deck. I DO, however, use a double-barreled shotgun which was manufactured in 1990, modern magnum loads, and electric socks. With fishing it is largely the same. I do not use strike indicators, ’stink baits’ or other fly-modifications, or barbed hooks. I DO use a graphite rod, DuPont line, and nylon leaders. The point of all of this is that, at a certain point, technology can and does take the sport out of being a sportsman. I use modern equipment because it is safer and more reliable than antiques. This I find easy to defend. However, the modifications, concoctions, and natural subterfuges which technological advancement makes available to us, I believe allows the worst of us to compensate for our lack of knowledge and patience, placing more importance on the kill than the hunt (or the landing over the actual fishing). Which begs a question of all who have been involved in the ’strike indicator’ controversy: What is it about fly fishing that appeals most to you? Those who relish the streamside strategy, the endless presentations into pools you just KNOW are full of trout, a cold cheese sandwich and a smoke for lunch amid the splendor of our natural settings…those are the ones I feel more akin to, and for whose sportsmen’s ethos I have the utmost respect. However, for those who consider a day without an entry into the log book of either a catch or a kill a wasted day, you are the ones who are, in my opinion, missing the point. You might as well be using dynamite on the fish and bazookas on deer. So, if I am mistaken in wanting to change the focus of this debate from hardware, then flame me at will. However, if in truth the true debate is found in the ethos of the sportsman, consider yourself well and weigh in with your position. W.E.S. Harman Virginia Commonwealth University Richmond, Virginia "L’ecrivain original n’est pas celui qui n’imite personne, mais celui que personne ne peut imiter." (The original writer is not he who refrains from imitating others, but he who can be imitated by none.) – Francois-Rene De Chateaubriand,  "Genie du Christianisme"

A fine question. I fish for a variety of reasons. The strongest is that I love the sea, I go there summer and winter with or without a rod, but fishing is what turns voyeurism into an actual connection for me. That connection can be made with a 12′ surf rod, or a dropline even, but I use a fly rod. I enjoy the uncertainty of fly fishing. When I began my friends all used spinning gear, and would probably catch 20 cod before I would catch anything on the fly. But once I’d catch something they would say "I can’t believe you actually caught something on that rod." This gave me a sense of accomplishment, a feeling of overcoming an obstacle. I like that. With my surf rod I can go out and spray casts all over the place and cover a tremendous amount of water, and I will catch a fish more often than not. With my fly rod I can only fish water within 100′ of me. Sometimes this water doesn’t look like it can hold anything, and when it does it is a happy surprise. It’s this surprise I like best in fishing, and the more I tip the odds in my favor the less of a surprise it is when I catch a fish. So for me technology diminishes the joy I find in fishing. That’s why when I’m in my boat I try never to look at the fishfinder. I look at the water depth so I can find changes, then turn it off. I think the purpose of many of the technological advances in sport are marketing driven. Make something difficult easier and you get more appeal to the masses. If it took 100 hours for every fish we caught, many would not fish, so for the industry it’s good business to make the sport easier. People who are new to the sport will not notice the difference, and will probably get as much enjoyment from it as I do. I would not enjoy using their methods, and they probably would not enjoy mine, and I think that’s OK. All this makes me think back to a bumper sticker I had in the 70s that said "Short Skiis Suck". In order to make skiing easier and more widely appealing, manufacturers put out these short, easy to skid turn skiis. All of a sudden any bozo could survive a difficult run. Those of us who were still on 205s, 210s etc. didn’t care for this, and didn’t care for the difference it made in the shape of a mogul; gnarly choppy bumps instead of smooth, rounded bumps. When I think of this it seems to me that in any sport major technology shifts will be despised by those who got there without them, while the newer people will wonder what’s the big deal. That most of what I like is the traditional and most of what I don’t like is technological just tells me that I’m getting on in years :-                                                 jc

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Michael: Electric socks keep ones feet warm while hunting in sub-zero temperatures. Well, they’d keep them warm at any time, but are especially useful when hunting in seriously cold weather. Might I add they are also useful for wearing under waders when you’re going to be in super-cold water. W.E.S. Harman Virginia Commonwealth University Richmond, Virginia "L’ecrivain original n’est pas celui qui n’imite personne, mais celui que personne ne peut imiter." (The original writer is not he who refrains from imitating others, but he who can be imitated by none.) – Francois-Rene De Chateaubriand,   "Genie du Christianisme" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When I hunt I do not wear camo. I do not use scent-b-gon washes for my clothes. I do not spray doe estrus everywhere, or play taped hen turkey calls on a portable deck. I DO, however, use a double-barreled shotgun which was manufactured in 1990, modern magnum loads, and electric socks. Forgive my ignorance, but what are electric socks? Michael Smith

Response:

Forgive my ignorance, but what are electric socks? Michael Smith

Look at them as part of your outdoor potty training. They teach you to pee far from you standing position, and not to dribble. 8^) Bruce….

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …snip… The point of all of this is that, at a certain point, technology can and does take the sport out of being a sportsman. I use modern equipment because it is safer and more reliable than antiques. This I find easy to defend. However, the modifications, concoctions, and natural subterfuges which technological advancement makes available to us, I believe allows the worst of us to compensate for our lack of knowledge and patience, placing more importance on the kill than the hunt (or the landing over the actual fishing). Which begs a question of all who have been involved in the ’strike indicator’ controversy: What is it about fly fishing that appeals most to you? Those who relish the streamside strategy, the endless presentations into pools you just KNOW are full of trout, a cold cheese sandwich and a smoke for lunch amid the splendor of our natural settings…those are the ones I feel more akin to, and for whose sportsmen’s ethos I have the utmost respect. However, for those who consider a day without an entry into the log book of either a catch or a kill a wasted day, you are the ones who are, in my opinion, missing the point. You might as well be using dynamite on the fish and bazookas on deer.

This is in the same vein as my post from last week on "What is flyfishing to You: Was…". Its something that takes some meditation to answer with the convictions of truth. Your ruminations focusing on technology are well meant but the more I consider it the more I think they are perhaps misplaced. The reason is that what you describe relishing is the challenge of succeeding in a "fair chase" endeavor. This is not merely the harvesting (or R’ing) of the game but is the overcoming of obstacles barring your way to that success. Thus, for an accomplished sportsman excess technological "advantages" take the challenge and fun out of the endeavor. For those of lesser prowess, these technological advantages put them into the game closer to the same challenge level as the more accomplished individuals and can therefore experience similar joys when they succeed occasionally. As sporting prowess increases, the sportsman will often shift the balance in the "fair chase" equation back to a level that gives more challenge, thus voluntarily negating to some extent their increased skill level. This is often accomplished by going to more traditional and less technological methods (witness the resurgence of popularity in long bow archery for hunting to replace compound bows) or by setting and only seeking greater challenges for themselves (trophy bucks only, traveling to impenetrable areas to fish, targeting very selective trout, etc, etc). In the end, it is all relative to the individual. A sportsman, as I see it, certainly wants some success but not necessarily too much so that a challenge remains to be met. Where an individual falls on this scale can be shifted through technological innovation. It may be true to some extent that the ultimate purist has the least success in their sport (in terms of numbers). When I consider what flyfishing is to me I can roll over a litany of single experiences in my mind but none of them suffice as individual justifications to flyfish (or bowhunt, which falls in the same aesthetic category for me). When I look back at memories of flyfishing the conclusion that I have come to is that these endeavors are the closest thing to a striving for perfection that I may ever experience. What are the true memories at the end of a season? It is not the nice day catching many fish, one after another. It is not the various places gone, people seen, sunsets, bugs, gear, or water. These are part of the collage of experience that you can lovingly thumb through upon reflection but not the core. The core memories are the fleeting moments when the striving for perfection has been nearly achieved, the proper selection of gear for a promising spot never before considered or never properly fished before. A new insight and the laying in of the right fly on a lightly presented cast- just right. A sipping rise and a good fish on, well played and now in hand and for a moment in time everything has stopped and the universe has altered its course to revolve around that fleeting instant where judgement and skill (and perhaps some luck) have combined to meet the challenge that has been set. It may be the only fish of the day but it will be remembered long after the season ends and many more fish have been taken with less grace and spirit. So there flows the river Why. Jon (Am in total agreement on the "gotta get my game (fill in species here)" to have fun attitude described previously)

Response:

As an all-around outdoor sports kind of guy, I find myself in the company of hunters and fishermen quite a bit. I consider myself something of a traditionalist, largely due only to the fact that I find that technology often has the effect of taking the sport out of being a sportsman. When I hunt I do not wear camo. I do not use scent-b-gon washes for my clothes. I do not spray doe estrus everywhere, or play taped hen turkey calls on a portable deck. I DO, however, use a double-barreled shotgun which was manufactured in 1990, modern magnum loads, and electric socks. With fishing it is largely the same. I do not use strike indicators, ’stink baits’ or other fly-modifications, or barbed hooks. I DO use a graphite rod, DuPont line, and nylon leaders. The point of all of this is that, at a certain point, technology can and does take the sport out of being a sportsman. I use modern equipment because it is safer and more reliable than antiques. This I find easy to defend. However, the modifications, concoctions, and natural subterfuges which technological advancement makes available to us, I believe allows the worst of us to compensate for our lack of knowledge and patience, placing more importance on the kill than the hunt (or the landing over the actual fishing). Which begs a question of all who have been involved in the ’strike indicator’ controversy: What is it about fly fishing that appeals most to you? Those who relish the streamside strategy, the endless presentations into pools you just KNOW are full of trout, a cold cheese sandwich and a smoke for lunch amid the splendor of our natural settings…those are the ones I feel more akin to, and for whose sportsmen’s ethos I have the utmost respect. However, for those who consider a day without an entry into the log book of either a catch or a kill a wasted day, you are the ones who are, in my opinion, missing the point. You might as well be using dynamite on the fish and bazookas on deer. So, if I am mistaken in wanting to change the focus of this debate from hardware, then flame me at will. However, if in truth the true debate is found in the ethos of the sportsman, consider yourself well and weigh in with your position. W.E.S. Harman Virginia Commonwealth University Richmond, Virginia "L’ecrivain original n’est pas celui qui n’imite personne, mais celui que personne ne peut imiter." (The original writer is not he who refrains from imitating others, but he who can be imitated by none.) – Francois-Rene De Chateaubriand,   "Genie du Christianisme"

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Question:

Hi Group It seems like everytime I leave for a while my email gets messed up.  If any of you have tried to contact me in the last week, please do so again. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 catalog)

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Hi Al — welcome home In light of some of the posts recently i have to start this with THIS IS A JOKE… but maybe nobody wanted to talk to you!!!!  ;) jg

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Question:

Simple question–  is there any way to overcome the problem of wanting to cast a small, light floating lure out onto a lake–when the durn thing is too light to cast farther than the closest tule?   I’ve used split shot and put the lure on a real long leader, but that only works to a certain depth.  Any thoughts or tips appreciated! Randy

 I came by this by accident, when my nephew shut the car door on the tip of a flyrod of mine. It lopped off about 8 inches and made it tough to use as a flyrod again. During the big snow storms we had tthis winter I was messing around in the basement and found two old spinning reels Wasn’t using anymore and cleaned them up. Looking around, I spotted the old flyrod and decided what the hell and taped one on. I took it out two days ago and it acts like a 7 1/2 foot long ultralight. It’ll sling the smallest rebel minow a pretty far distance . Haven’t caught anything on it yet but I think it will do great for crappie and other small fish, and a small mouth will probably be something else. The rod seems to load itself, so the weight of the lure doesn’t matter as much. Bill C.

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: to cast a small, light floating lure out onto a lake–when the durn : thing is too light to cast farther than the closest tule?   : I’ve used split shot and put the lure on a real long leader, but : that only works to a certain depth.  Any thoughts or tips appreciated! : A very light, longish rod can help (spinning, of course…).  Or a flyrod… More practically, use a small bobber for weight. … greg pavlov

And I have heard of this baitfisherman’s trick: use an ice cube or a sugar cube as a "sinker".  You wrap the line around your ice cube in a double hitch and pull for a moment – the line is supposed to cut in a bit. Then you cast and the extra weight melts/dissolves. It sounds like it might work for baits that sit there for a while. I haven’t tried it myself…

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Simple question–  is there any way to overcome the problem of wanting to cast a small, light floating lure out onto a lake–when the durn thing is too light to cast farther than the closest tule?   I’ve used split shot and put the lure on a real long leader, but that only works to a certain depth.  Any thoughts or tips appreciated! Randy — Randy: The simplest solution is to attach a bobber about 36" above the lure. The bobber provides plenty of wieght for casting, but won’t sink your floating lure. If you’re concerned about the bobber spooking the fish, use one of the small clear plastic jobs. Good fishing…. Robert Maxwell

There are bobbers made specifically for this purpose, like the clear plastic ones Robert mentions.  They hamper your ability to control the lure, like for small poppers.  But, they do allow you to cast a very light lure without learning to use a fly rod. Of course, the other option is to buy a fly rod/reel and start practicing.   That’s something I can do when I retire. 8-] Richard

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Simple question–  is there any way to overcome the problem of wanting to cast a small, light floating lure out onto a lake–when the durn thing is too light to cast farther than the closest tule?   I’ve used split shot and put the lure on a real long leader, but that only works to a certain depth.  Any thoughts or tips appreciated!

I’d try the same technique for casting a fly (with a spinning rod) long distance.  Try a clear plastic bubble.  You can control the depth by changing the amount of water you put in it.  Fill it about halfway and it won’t sink.  Using an ultralight rod and reel with 2# test line (max) will make it much easier as well. — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY

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: Simple question–  is there any way to overcome the problem of wanting : to cast a small, light floating lure out onto a lake–when the durn : thing is too light to cast farther than the closest tule?   : I’ve used split shot and put the lure on a real long leader, but : that only works to a certain depth.  Any thoughts or tips appreciated! : Randy : — : Randy: : The simplest solution is to attach a bobber about 36" above the lure. You can also use a lighter test line.  Next, start fooling around with rod/reel combos, but that’s more expensive. — Jeff Smith                                     Graduate student http://www.msc.cornell.edu/~jeffs         Cornell University, Ithaca, NY

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Simple question–  is there any way to overcome the problem of wanting to cast a small, light floating lure out onto a lake–when the durn thing is too light to cast farther than the closest tule?   I’ve used split shot and put the lure on a real long leader, but that only works to a certain depth.  Any thoughts or tips appreciated! Randy —

Randy: The simplest solution is to attach a bobber about 36" above the lure. The bobber provides plenty of wieght for casting, but won’t sink your floating lure. If you’re concerned about the bobber spooking the fish, use one of the small clear plastic jobs. Good fishing…. Robert Maxwell

Response:

Simple question–  is there any way to overcome the problem of wanting to cast a small, light floating lure out onto a lake–when the durn thing is too light to cast farther than the closest tule?   I’ve used split shot and put the lure on a real long leader, but that only works to a certain depth.  Any thoughts or tips appreciated! Randy —

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Question:

Does anyone know if there is a rod building newsgroup? If not, does this newsgroup handle most of the rod building questions? Thanks for your help. Bruce — —                        Andrew Pea & Co., Inc               Information and Technology Consultants                 Publisher, The Prairienet Companion                               -=*=-               Office 217-352-7830 * FAX 217-359-1761

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: Does anyone know if there is a rod building newsgroup? If not, does this : newsgroup handle most of the rod building questions? This group is perfect.  If you clearly state your topic in your, umm, topic. you will receive lots of help.  good luck. And I’m sorry about your name…it must have been a rough childhood.<g — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    |  These University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    |  opinions Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. |  are mine.

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Bruce, another source of rod building info (or anything to do with ANY aspect of fly fishing) is for you to subscribe to the Flyfish list.  We have several professional rod builders on the list and plenty of other people building rods. These type of questions come up all the time.  To subscribe, do the following: Message:  subscribe flyfish (space) your name You will then receive an incredible amount of mail from the list, so enjoy!! Frank Church Goshen, In

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: Does anyone know if there is a rod building newsgroup? If not, does this : newsgroup handle most of the rod building questions? This group is perfect.  If you clearly state your topic in your, umm, topic. you will receive lots of help.  good luck.

Thanks, I’ll need all the help I can get! And I’m sorry about your name…it must have been a rough childhood.<g

Yeah, it was fun. And I defy anyone to come up with something new I havn’t heard — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    |  These University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    |  opinions Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. |  are mine.

– |      =     _                   |                                |^M M|

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