Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That’s the headline on a story in today’s Centre Deadly Times. Some details: The Penn’s Valley Conservation Association has begun installing deflectors, made of hemlock logs and limestone ballast, in the Creek  near Coburn. The deflectors measure 56 feet by 32 feet.  They will cover a stretch of stream  about 1000 feet long. No completion date was given. These types of stream improvement projects were popular twenty or thirty years ago. I thought they had become out of favor for a variety of reasons. I think we should mitigate damage than we have done to streams and rivers, but I have problems with the concept of putting in  man made objects to improve streams even if it makes the fish catching better. Are they still popular back East?

A couple of my favorite Back Eastern rivers are much more hospitable to the finned critters because TU erected wing dams and planted willows…

Response:

The only trout stream in Central Ohio was …’improved’ many years ago by farming. the stream, which was appropriately named the Mad River, meandered, twisted and turned for many miles. This habitually moving stretch of water was ‘channeled to make it flow more straight and not interfere with farming. Today, it reminds me of the concrete troughs of a fish hatchery. Local clubs and groups are forever trying to ‘improve’ the stream. Various damns and deflectors help restore some of the cover that was lost. ….there is no point to this post so don’t look for it…. john

Response:

These types of stream improvement projects were popular twenty or thirty years ago. I thought they had become out of favor for a variety of reasons. I think we should mitigate damage than we have done to streams and rivers, but I have problems with the concept of putting in  man made objects to improve streams even if it makes the fish catching better. Are they still popular back East? Willi

Some of the sections of Penns that I’ve been on, run pretty straight and flat, especially the section near Coburn.  If the Holy Water can tolerate a few log jams, I’m sure Penns can. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The only trout stream in Central Ohio was …’improved’ many years ago by farming. the stream, which was appropriately named the Mad River, meandered, twisted and turned for many miles. This habitually moving stretch of water was ‘channeled to make it flow more straight and not interfere with farming. Today, it reminds me of the concrete troughs of a fish hatchery. Local clubs and groups are forever trying to ‘improve’ the stream. Various damns and deflectors help restore some of the cover that was lost. ….there is no point to this post so don’t look for it…. john

john, john, john. How many times do we have to tell you: nullifying disclaimers go at the TOP of the post. Geeze… /daytripper (For the sake of good order ‘n’ stuff

Response:

john, john, john. How many times do we have to tell you: nullifying disclaimers go at the TOP of the post. Geeze… /daytripper (For the sake of good order ‘n’ stuff

Hell, you deny everything from the time you get up each day.  So what’s new?

  george.vcf

1K Download

Response:

john, john, john. How many times do we have to tell you: nullifying disclaimers go at the TOP of the post. Geeze… /daytripper (For the sake of good order ‘n’ stuff Hell, you deny everything from the time you get up each day.  So what’s new?

Shouldn’t you be ruining some ferrules for more soon-to-be-ex-customers? /daytripper (Thinking about Ginking? See www.ginkstinks.org)

Response:

…….Every old #12 we have here beats anything daytripper is strugglilng with.

Not sure that’s true.  It would appear that it’s damned near impossible to keep it lit. Wolfgang don’t bogart that stake my friend…..

Response:

  There’s a 72% chance that your problem is that you’re sending only about 5/6 of a fly rod to each customer.  No charge for this one….

ROTFLOL!!!!

Response:

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– Hash: SHA1 Daytripper, I built over (OVER) 100 bamboo fly rods last year and that means over 130  very happy, happy customers.  You, on the other hand don’t know

100 fly rods for 130 customers. Jesus H. Christ, how many different people got #12? – — "Armchair warriors often fail, and we’ve been  poisoned by these fairy tales" -Don Henley —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—– Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE7z2B4rpli/675/DERArbUAKDnIgvhJtyyFM7gHSF6y9MjtSORZgCfQcVW fXl0F8mo4RaW533IyCKfqzc= =ir2+ —–END PGP SIGNATURE—–

Response:

Daytripper, I built over (OVER) 100 bamboo fly rods last year and that means over 130  very happy, happy customers. Being the astute mathematician I am, I’m in a position to help your business as a consultant here George.  There’s a 72% chance that your problem is that you’re sending only about 5/6 of a fly rod to each customer.  No charge for this one….

Being the man about bamboo town, 5/6th’s of anything I do beats any plastic job you’re using Jeff.  But that is alright.  At least you’re fishing ’something’ even if it is only half as nice as bamboo.  (still guessing 50/50  and still flipping that dime, huh?) Take care Jeff. Mr.G.

  george.vcf

1K Download

Response:

Do you want an old #12 Wolfgang?   Numberology is religeous truth.  Every old #12 we have here beats anything daytripper is strugglilng with.  Trust me.  You would be the 13th owner and proud to have one.  How should I label it now? hum???? #13 of #12? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Ah, so old #12 is now in the hands of its thirtieth happy customer! Well, ain’t that a wonderment! Wolfgang numerology sucks

  george.vcf

1K Download

Response:

Daytripper, I built over (OVER) 100 bamboo fly rods last year and that means over 130  very happy, happy customers.

Ah, so old #12 is now in the hands of its thirtieth happy customer! Well, ain’t that a wonderment! Wolfgang numerology sucks

Response:

Why in the world would they want to screw up a perfectly good fishing area. I read the article seems to me they will be screwing up Penns below Coburn with more silt and debris.    mike www.centredailytimes.com go to news

Response:

Daytripper, I built over (OVER) 100 bamboo fly rods last year and that means over 130  very happy, happy customers.

Being the astute mathematician I am, I’m in a position to help your business as a consultant here George.  There’s a 72% chance that your problem is that you’re sending only about 5/6 of a fly rod to each customer.  No charge for this one….

Response:

Daytripper, I built over (OVER) 100 bamboo fly rods last year and that means over 130  very happy, happy customers.  You, on the other hand don’t know anything about bamboo fly rods  because you’ve proven that over and over again.  That I build a phenominal, high quality fly rod now seems to escape you.  So why don’t you just put it in your ear?

Fuck off, moron. Your rods are the joke of the industry – right behind your own visage. Everyone here knows the saga of #6, #11, and #12, to name a famous few. You raved about how fine those pieces of shite were, too, and tried to trash more than a few victims along the way who had the temerity to return them. Hell, #12 was an industry joke, returned by three different people before you finally snuck off and gave it away outright. btw, I have more than a few fine cane rods. Add them together and I could buy your single-wide right out from under you. None of them have your name on them. Coincidence? I don’t think so You want to play? You want me to have to beat you with the clue bat again? I got all the ammo I’ll ever need, and all of it is in your own words. Maybe roll out the entire Original Book of Gink, chapter by chapter? Should be great for bizness, eh? Go for it, Gehrkins. So stick all that where sun don’t shine, whacko. God knows you got plenty of room up there… hth? /daytripper

Response:

Daytripper, I built over (OVER) 100 bamboo fly rods last year and that means over 130  very happy, happy customers.  You, on the other hand don’t know anything about bamboo fly rods  because you’ve proven that over and over again.  That I build a phenominal, high quality fly rod now seems to escape you.  So why don’t you just put it in your ear? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – john, john, john. How many times do we have to tell you: nullifying disclaimers go at the TOP of the post. Geeze… /daytripper (For the sake of good order ‘n’ stuff Hell, you deny everything from the time you get up each day.  So what’s new? Shouldn’t you be ruining some ferrules for more soon-to-be-ex-customers? /daytripper (Thinking about Ginking? See www.ginkstinks.org)

And regarding the above posting by yourself, let us just check that out and see who the hell wants to start something?  It better not be active, let me say that just for starters.

  george.vcf

1K Download

Response:

That’s the headline on a story in today’s Centre Deadly Times. Some details: The Penn’s Valley Conservation Association has begun installing deflectors, made of hemlock logs and limestone ballast, in the Creek  near Coburn. The deflectors measure 56 feet by 32 feet.  They will cover a stretch of stream  about 1000 feet long. No completion date was given.

These types of stream improvement projects were popular twenty or thirty years ago. I thought they had become out of favor for a variety of reasons. I think we should mitigate damage than we have done to streams and rivers, but I have problems with the concept of putting in  man made objects to improve streams even if it makes the fish catching better. Are they still popular back East? Willi

Response:

Vince,   I think this would be above the junction with Elk, a stretch which is stocked by the state. I may be wrong, keep us posted.                        Tom

Response:

That’s the headline on a story in today’s Centre Deadly Times. Some details: The Penn’s Valley Conservation Association has begun installing deflectors, made of hemlock logs and limestone ballast, in the Creek  near Coburn. The deflectors measure 56 feet by 32 feet.  They will cover a stretch of stream  about 1000 feet long. No completion date was given. vince norris

Response:

Question:

BTW, why not include the arbor knot? You have to attach the backing to the spool somehow. Yeah, but the guys at Orvis do that one.

They probably tie your needle knots, too. How many other people in ROFF have been streamside with a supposedly experienced flyfisherman who, when it came time to tie on a leader, had no idea how to do it? The clinch knot and nail knot both can be replaced by the Uni knot if you like.

But EVERY knot can be replaced by the clinch knot. Just ask Wayno if he ever reappears. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

How many other people in ROFF have been streamside with a supposedly experienced flyfisherman who, when it came time to tie on a leader, had no idea how to do it?

This has happened to me numerous times.  Also, many people apparently change their ( looped ),leaders at an amazing rate, because they are unable to even tie tippet on.   If you have enough time and money I don

Question:

   In the first place Mike didn’t do anything any decent person would have done. I sent an E-mail to Dianna telling her my opinion of the article and received a reply which was negative and did not sound like her.  I did not know about the injury to her husband and the pressure she was under at the time.  As the Editor she did have a responsibility to place a disclaimer to state FAOL’s position on Old Ruff’s article, which she did not do.  This made it appear that they condoned this inflammatory article.  Then she removed the negative comments about it from FAOL which further indicated FAOL’s position was to agree with the article.  Deanna made some serious errors and her actions led to the current situation.    Mike’s reputation is even better with me because he has the courage of his convictions.  If I had to chose between Mike and FAOL, Mike would win every time. Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a certain reputation to uphold here, and elsewhere.< Not any more. Oh, I think Mike still enjoys a pretty good reputation on ROFF.  Of course, my supposition hinges on the assumption that you don’t speak for all of us…….I could be wrong.

Response:

ROFF is the one place, FAOL cannot censor opposing points of view. < And one YOU cannot censor.

And what have I censored? bc.

Response:

HRBlain writes: I could be wrong.< You often are.

Careful, HR, or you’ll end up in Bmabia, which is right next to Bmalia.  In fact, they share the same fire and police dpts.  The young ladies in Bmabia, however, are small titted, unlike the lucious dolls of Bmalia.  Something about the water I suspect. Dave L.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mike,   Ok, already! Perhaps it is only me, but I see no need to burden ROFF with ongoing matters on FAOL. For days on end, we get a bombardment of threads, the vast majority started by yourself, to discuss your beef with folks who don’t regularly contribute here. Wasn’t it you who had to depart us once before over needless bulk caused by other threads? You seem to be taken with the need to justify on this forum why you shouldn’t be blamed for the demise(if indeed such happens)of FAOL. It is perfectly rational that some blame you. Get over it. Get back to the insightful and well written stuff that has endeared you to many. I miss your angling writing, and hope not to offend with these observations.                         regards,                          Tom Littleton "Every now and then when your life gets complicated and the weasels start closing in, the only real cure is to load up on heinous chemicals and then drive like a bastard from Hollywood to Las Vegas."

Tom: I am little more than a lurker here with very few posts to my credit. I have, however, read Mr. Connors and many others posts over the last 6 months. In this time I’ve found him to be free with his knowledge, a prolific contributor to the group, and above all, a reasonable and courteous gentleman. He now finds himself in a position of being slandered, quoted out of context, and generally maligned by persons who aren’t qualified to carry his creel. His integrity has been called in to question by persons with less than honourable methods. I think he has handled himself with more restraint than I could. If he feels that posting to a public forum is the best way to defend his name, I am willing to afford him some lattitude. IMHO, ROFF is a forum for educated (formal or otherwise) and sometimes opinionated, gentleman to gather for thought provoking discussion with fly fishing being the tie that binds (if not always the main topic <G). When I get tired of a thread I just move to the next subject header. Rick O. "Children are born with an innate sense of justice; it usually takes twelve years of public schooling and four more years of college to beat it out of them." "Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell."

Response:

Like I said in another post… "Crusty Factor" — Michael Era

Question:

I’m rather new to fly fishing and I currently carry my daily supplies in a hiking fanny pack.  This does not always seem real convenient as it does not seperate items efficiently.  Most of my fishing is in the eastern Sierra Nevada – small lakes and streams.  Some float tubing. What are the pros and cons to other methods of carrying your supplies – vests, specially made packs, shirts with lots of pockets, etc?

A fishing vest allows one to carry a prodigious amount of "stuff" – one heck of a lot more than you can carry using virtually any other method (that’ll still let you actually fish ;^) That’s a Pro *and* a Con. It’s soooooooo easy to end up with your vest stuffed with enough gear to open your own fly shop. If you’re the kind of person that never wants to wonder whether he should’ve brought that <fill in the blank, a vest is definitely for you. Even my "shorty" wading vest has 29 pockets! And you simply can’t have an empty pocket, dontcha know! By the end of the season it’s so overstuffed with gear it’ll stand up on its own – and if I’ve got my "lightweight" raingear and lunch stuffed in the back, the whole works weighs more than 10 pounds (whoof!) Obviously, having an entire store on-stream is the advantage (I’m talking 400+ patterns in sizes from 0 to 28, a second, matched, reel and a pair of loaded spools (four different lines total), a leader kit,  floatants, dessicant, sinkers, insect seine, bug dope, a chunk of TP in a baggy ;^)  a gooseneck light, magnifier, thermometer, various small tools and zingers). Just as obviously, carrying all that weight is the down side… OTOH, I occasionally leave the vest (and the waders) in the truck, and wet wade while wearing one of those Jungle Jim shirts. Enough room for a couple of tippet spools, a small box of flies, a bottle of floatant, a pair of snips, and a hemostat, smokes and a lighter, and the keys to the truck. Depends on where I’m fishing and whether I know the water well enough to pick out just what I need. It’s definitely enjoyable to fish "light"! Somewhere in between there’s a good compromise. Buying a vest with a more sane number of pockets is probably a step in the right direction ;^) Good luck! /daytripper

Response:

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– I’ve got a very simple way: I don’t carry much stuff. If it doesn’t fit in the two large handwarmer pockets on my Carhartts jacket and the one on my t-shirt, it doesn’t go. That cuts my load down to one fly box for wets and dries[1], one fly box for everything else[2], sunglasses, a spool of tippet material, a knife, and my smokes if that’s one of the weekends that I forget that I’m supposed to have quit. [1] I’m not sure that they’re supposed to be wet, but what else do you call a #12 parachute Adams when it sinks? [2] Yes, I’ve even used bass bugs on trout streams. They worked when _NOTHING_ else would. It’s the damdest thing. —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—– Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBNx18oZdiUzdLFqlpAQHouAf+LPT5ZqFPwmLeqi0J2/sGfDBvDXG/RV8e J5afy/mrSMGIJDBna0vecEfieL+njqYrRLQMXmJT9UM6c8yuXAW72KO8Nn8QA3Xk DVhpOZ72CQ9yipgFowbL13OLyygrnY5rLp3t/fO0TJxlqOrARN/jbtsNawy7g6HQ tWN70EmzQtMCfStPAs/g4DJD6a0gWFWaad+xSaQJ1BYoqQSz2N3HlyAlioG7hICf VQYyw5ociZDoZ12piVPiDaLsAOzChvKx6g3SvNZyEstR5QX9BP7l8zpQKMFi/hCq gH09LK7dp+6lkMUuf1e6925QWMQeS4lI7p8stUGfCud0BHWvHctxfg== =Qcla —–END PGP SIGNATURE—– Mike S. Medintz, http://www.grapevine.net/~medintz "You have the right to freedom of religion. You have the  responsibility to not knock on my door on Sunday morning." -Bill Maher

Response:

Float tubes have their own vests (most of them, except the cheapies) in the form of side pockets.  No vest or pack required.  On stream, though, a vest is still the answer for me.  Organized, roomy and comfortable.  The tendency is to overstuff. We all start to use every pocket because…well, because it is there.  Stuff like George’s different products, thermometers, two sizes of hemostats and all 6 weights of tippet can add up. A short vest is worth the investment for me.  Of course, I don’t give a rat’s behind about what is fashionable among the yuppie scum, God bless ‘em. They keep my local fly shop open and I still have fun catching fish.  As long as you’re happy… Babel

Response:

Skiroc asked:What are the pros and cons to other methods of carrying your supplies – vests, specially made packs, shirts with lots of pockets, etc?

  General rule:  The more room you have to put stuff in, the more stuff you’re going to haul around with you.  You don’t need that much stuff.   I’ve been happy as a clam carrying my stuff around in my little Patagucci fishing fanny pack for the past four or five years.

Response:

Stick with your fanny pack. The best piece of advice I can give you is to keep your kit down to a sensible minimum. The worst thing you can do is be persuaded into buying a vest with dozens of pockets, which you’ll feel duty-bound to fill with uneccessary items. You really don’t need the kitchen sink (in duplicate). Honest! It has taken me over thirty years to pare things down, but I’m getting there. I now travel much lighter than I used to and fishing is so much more fun. Keep it simple! Tony

Response:

(snip) I know people who use all the methods you describe for carrying their FFing gear. I’m an equipment freak instead of a minimalist so I wear a vest.

        (snip) .  Big bass bug boxes won’t fit just anywhere.

        and besides, where would a guy keep all those hilarious lawyer jokes?         wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Frank Church USAF Retired Elkhart, IN

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (snip) I know people who use all the methods you describe for carrying their FFing gear. I’m an equipment freak instead of a minimalist so I wear a vest.         (snip) .  Big bass bug boxes won’t fit just anywhere.         and besides, where would a guy keep all those hilarious lawyer jokes?         wayno And as the French say, "tooshay" Wayno.  :-) Frank Church USAF Retired Elkhart, IN

Response:

I’m rather new to fly fishing and I currently carry my daily supplies in a hiking fanny pack.  This does not always seem real convenient as it does not seperate items efficiently.  Most of my fishing is in the eastern Sierra Nevada – small lakes and streams.  Some float tubing. What are the pros and cons to other methods of carrying your supplies – vests, specially made packs, shirts with lots of pockets, etc?

Response:

Skiroc asked:What are the pros and cons to other methods of carrying your supplies – vests, specially made packs, shirts with lots of pockets, etc?

Since I live in Texas where it is often hotter’n hell I seldom wear a vest. I use a fanny pack that was made to carry a handgun. It has four pockets which give me enough separation to easily find things. If I leave the 44 at home,that one pocket holds more fly boxes than I need for any one day. I have been known to use empty hook boxes which used to hold 100 hooks hold a lot of flies of the size useful for trout or bluegill. Big Dale

Response:

I’m rather new to fly fishing and I currently carry my daily supplies in a hiking fanny pack.  This does not always seem real convenient as it does not seperate items efficiently.  Most of my fishing is in the eastern Sierra Nevada – small lakes and streams.  Some float tubing. What are the pros and cons to other methods of carrying your supplies – vests, specially made packs, shirts with lots of pockets, etc?

I know people who use all the methods you describe for carrying their FFing gear. I’m an equipment freak instead of a minimalist so I wear a vest.  Things are organized the same way, so there is no fumbling around looking for that tippet spool, nippers, etc.  If you decide on a vest, do two things before buying. . . since you float tube, consider getting a ’shorty’ vest, this will keep the lower pockets in the vest out of the water, and if you wade fish will do the same thing and, take your fly boxes with you when buying the vest to make sure they will fit the pockets.  I made that mistake once, and had to return the vest.  Big bass bug boxes won’t fit just anywhere. Frank Church USAF Retired Elkhart, IN

Response:

We had a thread on this about a month ago, which attracted dozens of responses.  You may want to try to dig it out, if it’s still up on your ISP. One basic piece of advice, avoid packs that use Velcro to seal pockets (this will eliminate most fishing vests).  The Velcro will wear out in a year of two of use, well before anything else.  Then you’ll start losing things, until you get around to replacing the Velcro or the item. As to which is better, vest or packs, I don’t think there is a single perfect answer.  It’ depends on the fishing you do. Vests are perfect if, a) all you need to carry is fishing gear — and a lot of it; and b) it’s not too hot.  Again, look for vests that use zippers not Velcro to seal pockets.  This will eliminate almost all of the less expensive vests. Chest packs are great if you don’t need to carry a lot of gear, and you get one that is comfortable (pay a lot of attention to the harness).  I have a large Orvis chest pack which, when loaded fully, is uncomfortable after an hour or so.  Other pack harnesses seem much better designed. However, more often than not I need to carry more than fishing gear, e.g. raincoat, lunch, water bottle.  If you like to fish small streams in the Eastern Sierra, and walk any distance from you car, you’re probably in the same boat. I’ve adopted a combined back-pack/chest pack by JW Outfitters.  It’s a small daypack in back, with elastic webbing to carry a jacket on the outside if the compartment fills up, and two vertical chest packs, one on each back-pack strap.  Each chest pack is large enough to hold two or three medium-large fly boxes, and there are plenty of little pockets with zippers, etc, to carry tippet, hemostats, leaders, etc., etc., etc.  Everything I used to carry in my vest (I’m neither a minimalist nor a gear-head) fit into the chest packs.  There are two built in retractors, one on the outside of each chest pack.  Minimal use of Velcro.  Cabela’s sells it in their fly fishing catalog, if your dealer can’t get if for you. Obviously designed by a fly-fisherman, I continue to  be pleased with it and to learn about little features that enhance it.  Patagonia makes a similar pack, with a larger back-pack section, but it’s much more expensive and uses Velcro to seal pockets. Michael

Response:

Question:

We developed SneakPeek postings as a result of many Usenet users’ desire for a summarizing tool that would help them skim through the most active threads.  Thus, SneakPeek postings are intended to help users with limited time keep abreast of group discussions, stay in touch with more groups, and check out new groups quickly. Usenet is an environment where every voice should count equally.  However, while some users have found SneakPeek postings useful, others have tried to shout it down, potentially resulting in the tyranny of a vocal few. Therefore, we encourage all to post their constructive opinions so that we may democratically decide if there is room for SneakPeek postings in Usenet. Talkway, Inc. http://www.talkway.com The rest of this message summarizes the most active recent threads in this newsgroup. *** Jonathan Cook:  … First, we have been consistent that "selective harvest" is OK. So, throwing back small ones (or big ones) is not a problem. Since I cannot always target an exact fish like I can say, a deer, throwing back those out of the regulated keepable sizes or species is fine.  … *** eaguilr:  … I am very curious about your evidence that suggests that most C&K fishers gon only once a month or less.  What is yor dats source on this?  how do you know this?  … *** Ralph H:  … RESPONSE GENERATED BY AUTO-BOT I don’t have a problem with these basic propositions. I don’t have a problem with replacing most c&r or zero retention waters with a restricited  slot limit. I wouldn’t have a probl;em with applying that to more delicate populations like steehead as long as the slot enacted  … *** Jonathan McAnulty:  … One thing you might consider is the type of water you intend to paddle. A sea kayak is not very good for any rivers with rapids (even easy rapids) that require fast turns to be made. Also, rocky rivers may damage the boat if it is made of fiberglass/gelcoat. Since most sea  … *** DavPLaC: Jon writes, in part: rocky rivers or ones that require more maneuvering you may want to consider some of the high-volume plastic whitewater kayaks or a sit on top whitewater kayak. These can be plenty big enough and will take a lot  … *** Jonathan McAnulty:  … Here’s a few things to think about. First, materials: fiberglass is a better performer because its stiffer but it breaks easier and requires more repair. However, it is easier to repair if you need it. Plastic is much tougher. The uses you describe are unlikely to ever need to have  … *** info: Monday, August 17, 1998     4:26:33 AM Please, could you tell me what a Patriot Fly is?  Perhaps a short description  I have not heard of this pattern and it has piqued my interest.  … *** W.D.Grey:  … Hook            TMC 7999, Mustad 36890, sizes2-6 Thread          Black 6/0 prewaxed Tail            Red hackle fibres Rib             Fine oval silver tinsel  … *** Vincent Norris:  … The pattern Charlie presents on pages 197-8 of his  book, _Patterns, Hatches, Tactics, and Trout_, is entirely different from the one submitted above: Hook:    Mustad 94833, sizes #10-18 Thread:  Red Tails:   Brown hackle fibers Body:    Smolt blue Krystal Flash wound around the shank.  … *** Harry Mason:  … In retrospect:  …   A bit trite but it has some merit *** asadi: if you want to eat fish –  go to the grocery and get farm raised fish…the pressure is too great to sustain any but C and R.  … *** Moe Skeeter:  … This is the first mantra excerpted from the TU brainwashing tapes "Are you Lefty ?". *** Jonathan Cook:  … If there was only one white-only drinking fountain, would that make it OK? *** dave bottom:  … Stupid hyperbole. Not the same thing. Letting F&W manage waters with special regs to ensure that the fish survive makes sense to me. Now saying that I’d also like to say that as a parent of some kids, who don’t fly cast very well, having all/most/lots of water be special regs can be a hassle when trying to get your kid worming up some  … *** RLPPT: The situation in Pennsylvania is more complex than the substance of the original post.  A small but vocal group here called "TAP" (Traditional Anglers of Pennsylvania) are issuing a challenge that I always felt would eventually come..  Why are some of the best trout streams on public land managed under  … Talkway, Inc. http://www.talkway.com

Response:

[completely snipped: who needs it?] Talk about irony: the one endless thread that no roffian can escape is presented in Reader’s Digest fashion to the group that spawned the original. A mass of helpless bytes were thus senselessly slaughtered… What a waste… /dave <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< < Digital Equipment Corp.               Alpha Server Engineering < < Parker Street Campus                      Maynard, Massachusetts < < !!NOTE: Please replace "xxx" with "dec" to respond by email!!  < <<<<<<<<<<<<<< AMA 548313 <<<<<<<<<<<<<< Disclaimer: Opinion and content is mine alone, and unlikely to be                     shared by my employer, etc…

Response:

Question:

I’m seeking information about the new Paradigm from Thomas & Thomas.   I’m considering buying an 8-1/2 or 9 foot for a 5 weight and would be interested in a critique of its overall performance from someone who has spent some time with one. Thanks, Jim —     ***Upscale Leather*** Finely crafted products in fish leather. Visit our site at: http://www.tiac.net/users/batesbiz/upscale.html

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m seeking information about the new Paradigm from Thomas & Thomas. I’m considering buying an 8-1/2 or 9 foot for a 5 weight and would be interested in a critique of its overall performance from someone who has spent some time with one. Thanks, Jim —     ***Upscale Leather*** Finely crafted products in fish leather. Visit our site at: http://www.tiac.net/users/batesbiz/upscale.html

Jim:  I have had to opportunity to cast all the paradigms.  They are smooth casting rods similar in feel to Winstons with the exception of having a bit more backbone.  As for performance: do not expect them to be screaming speed rods.  They will cast 60 feet of line all day and be quite forgiving of poor loop control.  At the end of the day you won’t be tired from pushing line.  They also present a fly well with a delicate tip action that helps turn the fly over easily. Cosmetics: the rods are beautifully finished and a delight to see in bright sun.  The colors are radiant.  Good looks and an easy rod to cast usually makes for a good combo. As with any rod, cast it and put it to the test for your style of fishing.  If it feels good, looks good, do it!  You probably will never regret it!

Response:

Question:

I am planning to attempt to build a 9′, 5 weight fly rod for myself this fall or winter.  My motivations are a) I’m too cheap to buy a new factory-made model; b) it seems like a neat thing to be able to do. But I need some advice, including: 1.  an good instruction book; 2.  what kind of rod blank, and where to buy it; 3.  where to buy other necessary parts & tools; Also, is this even a sensible, realistic thing to do?  I mean, will I have to buy a bunch of expensive tools?  I am reasonably patient and capable with tools, etc., but I am certainly no craftsman.  Can a normal human being build a fly rod?  How much time/money will it take? (I have more of the former).  Does anyone know of rodbuilding classes in the Denver, CO area? Tight Lines! Marshall

Response:

I am planning to attempt to build a 9′, 5 weight fly rod for myself this . . . Also, is this even a sensible, realistic thing to do?  I mean, will I to buy a bunch of expensive tools?  I am reasonably patient and capable with tools, etc., but I am certainly no craftsman.  Can a normal human

It’s really very simple, and requires no special tools, or instruction book beyond what the pamphlet you get free with a complete rod kit (e.g. from Orvis 25 years ago:  don’t know if they still sell kits.)  But there are good books, by Pfeiffer, Marshall and others. Your main question is where to buy, in person or by mail.  You are best off if you can buy a kit or all components and glues from a store you can visit in person, in which you have confidence.  If you have to buy by mail, you need to know brand-names e.g. whether a St. Croix or Sage blank best suits your budget and your personal fishing needs.  You need have no worry about whipping on guides, gluing handles etc. — anyone can do this, and it does not take long. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

Response:

Question:

mor sporty tho fly-fish. more fun. makes small fish seem big and makes them feel they fight harder.  bait chunckers suck

STANDARD USENET BONEHEAD REPLY FORM (version 78.6, material by (check all boxes that apply) Dear: [X ] Clueless Newbie        [X ] Lamer         [  ] Flamer [  ] "Me too" er            [  ] Pervert       [X ] Geek [  ] Spammer                [  ] Racist        [  ] Fed [X ] Stereotypical AOLer    [  ] Freak         [X ] Troller You Are Being Flamed Because: [  ] You posted what should have been emailed [  ] You obviously don’t know how to read your newsgroups line [  ] You are trying to make money on a non-commercial newsgroup [  ] You posted something asking for warez sites [  ] You quoted an ENTIRE post in your reply [  ] You started a long, stupid thread [X ] You continued spreading a long stupid thread [  ] Your post is absurdly off topic for where you posted it [  ] You posted a followup to crossposted robot-generated spam [  ] You posted a "YOU ALL SUCK" message [X ] You posted low-IQ flamebait [  ] You posted a blatently obvious troll [  ] You followed up to a blatently obvious troll [  ] You posted pretending to be someone famous [  ] You said "me too" to something [X ] You make no sense [X ] Your sig/alias/server is dreadful [  ] You posted a phone-sex ad [  ] You posted a stupid pyramid money making scheme [  ] You posted in ElItE CaPiTaLs to look K3WL [  ] You posted SCREAMING in RANDOM CAPS for NO APPARENT REASON [  ] You didn’t do anything specific, but appear to be so              generally worthless that you are being flamed anyway  To Repent, You Must: [X ] Refrain from posting until you have a vague idea what              you’re doing [X ] Stop masturbating for a week [  ] Read every newsgroup you posted to for a week [X ] Give up your AOL account [X ] Bust up your modem with a hammer and eat it [X ] Tell your Mommy to up your medication [X ] Jump into a bathtub while holding your monitor [  ] Actually post something relevant [  ] Read the FAQ [  ] Post to alt.test [  ] Print your home phone number in your ads [  ] Be the guest of honor in alt.flame for a month In Closing, I’d Like to Say: [  ] Get a clue [  ] Get a life [  ] Go away [  ] Age 10 more years before you post again [  ] Never post again [  ] I pity your dog [  ] You need to seek psychiatric help [  ] Morons like you give ammo to pro-censorship geeks [  ] Yer momma’s so fat/stupid/ugly that etc… [  ] Take your gibberish somewhere else [  ] Learn how to post or get off the usenet [X ] All of the above Hope This Helps!

Response:

Well, bait chuckers *do suck*….but thats besides the point.

Response:

Question:

Last year was my first ordering from the Bass Pond, and I have sung their praises in this forum along with several of you out there.  I’m wondering if we have to order a new catalog each year or do they mail out new catalogs to people on their mailing list?  When is the new catalog due to be out? Paul DiConza NY Capital District Angler

Response:

Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly Path:

legba.synergy.net!nic.scruz.net!hilbert.dnai.com!redstone.interpath.net!new s.sprintlink.net!h owland.reston.ans.net!gatech!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!ub!newserve!rebecca!ne ws.crd.ge.co m!k1b2-31.crd.ge.com!user – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Followup-To: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly Nntp-Posting-Host: k1b2-31.crd.ge.com Organization: GE Corporate Research & Development Lines: 9 Last year was my first ordering from the Bass Pond, and I have sung their praises in this forum along with several of you out there.  I’m wondering if we have to order a new catalog each year or do they mail out new catalogs to people on their mailing list?  When is the new catalog due to be out? Paul DiConza NY Capital District Angler

Paul, I received my catolog last Tuesday. Great cover! Talked to Doug earlier in the week and he said that they were all mailed of and now is up to the PO. From the Float Tube of Elmer Meiler Somewhere on the Pond of OZ

Response:

Where do you order Bass Pond? Thanks. Dan Harris

Call 1-800-327-5014 "I am haunted by waters." -Norman Maclean-

Response:

Question:

Serious question; what’s the difference besides price?

For one, the no-see-um netting doesn’t! * Todd Merriman – Software Toolz, Inc. +1 706 889 8264  * Maintainer of the * * 8030 Pooles Mill Dr., Ball Ground, GA 30107-9610      * Software          * * UUCP: …!emory!slammer!toolz!todd                    * Entrepreneur’s    * Never knock on Death’s door. Ring the bell and run away.  Death really hates that.

Response:

Serious question; what’s the difference besides price?  I’ve never done

One weekend in Colorado we were sleeping in a NF tent went the wind must have started blowing 80 mph.  It felt like it was going to lift us up in the tent.  The ends of the poles flared where a plug is inserted that fits into a grommet.   The tent was 5 years old.  I sent the poles back and got new ones FREE. A K-Mart tent would have been shredded. I’ve also broken a zipper on an OLD NF daypack.  They fixed the zipper and fixed up some fraying edges for FREE. We stuck a new NF sleeping bag in the dryer when the heat switch didn’t work on the "NO HEAT" position.  It melted a 4"x6" hole in the bag.  NF repaired it and added down for $20. And like other people said they don’t leak. I use gear hard and will only buy from NF and similar companies. Mort

Response:

I am testing my posting capabilities.

Response:

Serious question; what’s the difference besides price?  I’ve never done One weekend in Colorado we were sleeping in a NF tent went the wind must have started blowing 80 mph.  It felt like it was going to lift us up in the tent.  The ends of the poles flared where a plug is inserted that fits into a grommet.  

I spent a week on the outer banks ( North Carolina ) with a ‘kmart’ type dome tent.  One night a storm hit with winds in the 40-60 mph range.  All night long I heard car doors slamming and vehicles leaving,  the tent flexed and got a little water in it but withstood the storm.  In the morning there were 3 other campers left in the campground ( about 30 people left during the night ).  However years later while airing the tent in my backyard one corner of the fly came loose ( the elastic cord was shot by then ) and my dog ( a puppy then ) proceded to destroy the tent.   bob

Response:

One night a storm hit with winds in the 40-60 mph range.  All night long I heard car doors slamming and vehicles leaving,  the tent flexed and got a little water in it but withstood the storm.  In the morning there were 3 other campers left in the campground ( about 30 people left during the night ).

It was probably the people, not their tents, that broke down. — -Wayne Trzyna

Response:

 Serious question; what’s the difference besides price?  I’ve never done  serious backcountry camping (yet), but I’ve camped out in some fairly  cold places.  On my last cross-country trip, I woke up in the morning  when the temperature was freezing, but I’d been perfectly warm in my  $40 K-mart tent and my $30 Coleman rectangular sleeping bag.    lesson one: You get what you pay for.    The main reason a NF tent cost more is the quality of the materials    used. The poles are 7075 aircraft alluminium not cheap fiberglass    that will snap on you. The biggest part of the cost is the poles.    Survival factor: If my life is on the line in a blizzard at 12,000    feet for four days I dont think I want to trust a $40.00 tent, if it    fails you die. If you don’t venture into these parts then a K-Mart    tent is fine.    One other reason is that The North Face will stand by it’s products    for life. Even if you muck it up yourself they will fix it for a small    charge.    One tent failure in dangerous weather will teach you this lesson,    trust me, I’ve been there…. Certified Gearhead:            Tim

Response:

Serious question; what’s the difference besides price?  I’ve never done serious backcountry camping (yet), but I’ve camped out in some fairly cold places.  On my last cross-country trip, I woke up in the morning when the temperature was freezing, but I’d been perfectly warm in my $40 K-mart tent and my $30 Coleman rectangular sleeping bag. Granted, I got soaked when it rained the next day, but I hadn’t put on the rainfly. —                 -ed falk, sun microsystems         "Towards the end, the smell of their air began to change"

Response:

Serious question; what’s the difference besides price?   Well, I owned a $40 tent from a large department store not unlike K-mart, and now own a $150 tent from a chain not unlike North Face. The big differents  is rain. The 40 buck tent leaked even with the rainfly.  So far not one drop has ever gotten into the $150 tent.

I have a dome tent that I bought on sale from JC Penny for $35.  It’s rain fly does cover the whole tent.  I’ve seam-sealed it and it is reasonably water proof from above.  The floor isn’t — I learned the hard way about that.  I put a tarp down under the tent that was bigger than the tent and it channeled water under the tent that saoked through and into my sleeping bag. But I’ve been in nasty storms and it’s held out well.  My wife has made a winter-season fly with a vestibule for the tent, altho’ it wouldn’t hold up with a lot of snow on it. Is it as good as a North Face?  Of course not.  But it works for me, holds my wife, myself, our dog and our boots and not much else.  And it fit our budget. — Are you thinking of telephones and managers and where you got to be at noon?

Response:

Here is the history of a K-mart tent, to illustrate its strengths and weaknesses:    It was made in Tiawan.  $50 in the early 70’s.  Made of a single layer of coated nylon (no rain fly).  A "wall tent" design; think of an old-fashioned pup tent with vertical sides underneath.  A big tent, comfortable for three. Advantages: I could afford it.  Lots of room. Only four pounds! Disadvantages: it took fourteen stakes and eight guy lines to set the damn thing up.  A pain at best, and sometimes it was impossible to find a large and soft enough site for it.  Surprisingly, neither leakage nor condensation were a problem. I used this thing on many hard-core wilderness trips over many years.  Was never so foolish as to use it above timberline or in winter, of course. Finally – -One year, way back in the Wind Rivers, a heavy windstorm came up and tore out the grommet supporting one pole.  Spent a wild couple of hours outside holding the thing up while a companion sewed it back together with fishing leader. -Next year, camped in the Snake River Plain on the way to the Cariboos.  A    _really_ _heavy_ rain came up, and the tent leaked and finally collapsed in the middle of the night.  Spent the night in the truck, and the next day in Idaho Falls drying our gear and shopping for a big tarp to use as a rain fly; the Cariboos are rain forest!  A big tarp rigged over the tent worked great on what became the rainiest trip I’ve ever taken,  but made pitching camp a big job.  And wouldn’t have worked in a heavy wind. – Two years after that, camped in a heavy rain near Stowe, Vermont. Packed the tent wet and didn’t get around to drying it for a week.  It turned out that the zippers, stake loops, etc. were cotton, and they all fell apart. I sadly trashed it and sewed up a Frostline Kodiak. _That_ is the difference between North Face and K-Mart. (BTW I now use a North Face Westwind. Damn good tent.)                         Chuck Smythe

Response:

| Serious question; what’s the difference besides price?  I’ve never done | serious backcountry camping (yet), but I’ve camped out in some fairly | cold places.  On my last cross-country trip, I woke up in the morning | when the temperature was freezing, but I’d been perfectly warm in my | $40 K-mart tent and my $30 Coleman rectangular sleeping bag. | | Granted, I got soaked when it rained the next day, but I hadn’t put on | the rainfly. | | — |           -ed falk, sun microsystems |   "Towards the end, the smell of their air began to change" (1) Weight, (2) Durability, (3) Service. The $40 K-Mart tent is going to be heavier, and the seams may not be sewn as solidly.  There may be more seams than optimal (i.e. the tent may be optimized for ease of production, which may not necessarily be optimal for rough conditions).  Finally, if something ever goes wrong with a North Face, Sierra Designs, Walrus, (or whatever) tent, you just bring it back to the store.  They’ll send it back to the manufacturer to fix it.  Doesn’t matter how old the tent is (as long as it doesn’t look like a bear chewed it). (Actually, this last is from hearsay.  I’ve only experienced their customer service in regards to a backpack; I’ve heard about their customer service with respect to sleeping bags, and I’m extrapolating to tents). As for the sleeping bag:  Frankly, you must be a warm sleeper.  My $30 Coleman rectangular bag is *barely* adequate as a comforter.  It has at most 1.5" of loft; it’s heavy; it won’t squoosh down into a small package; it’s not particularly windproof or water resistant (though the fill fiber is synthetic).  (Its weight is maybe 7 or 8 lbs, though that’s a guess.  My mummy bag weighs under 3 lbs, has 6" of loft, and is *highly* wind and water resistant.  Of course, I do feel like a sardine when I sleep in my mummy bag). — Hy

Response:

  lesson one: You get what you pay for.   The main reason a NF tent cost more is the quality of the materials   used. The poles are 7075 aircraft alluminium not cheap fiberglass   that will snap on you. The biggest part of the cost is the poles.   Survival factor: If my life is on the line in a blizzard at 12,000   feet for four days I dont think I want to trust a $40.00 tent, if it   fails you die. If you don’t venture into these parts then a K-Mart   tent is fine.   One tent failure in dangerous weather will teach you this lesson,   trust me, I’ve been there….

  I agree completely. The main difference between NF (or any other quality manufacturer) is the quality of the materials and the quality of the work. Good gear lasts forever (practically) if you take care of it. Cheap gear always breaks when you least want it to. Cheap tents leak more, poles break easier, grommets pull out, seam stitching tears out, etc… When I used to be a full-time guide, I saw more trips ruined by clients bringing cheap gear and having it break down. I understand that $$$ is always a consideration but I believe that you should always buy the best gear you can afford. Even a cheap tent by a good brand is better than going to Kmart, or whereever. I’d recommend renting good gear instead of buying the cheap stuff. Even if your’re not at 12,000 ft in a blizzard, the goal is to have FUN, which is impossible if you gear fails. RIPS (Raster Image Processing Systems)           uunet!solbourne.com!rips!rob 4665 Nautilus Court South                    << KERNAL: Panic, core dumped Boulder, CO 80301                         Darkstar crashes, pouring its light (303) 530-2910                              into ashes, reason tatters, …

Response:

Serious question; what’s the difference besides price?

The other suggestions and answers cover the subject pretty well, so I will only add this: The cheap tent can be upgraded, providing it handles the basics as it is. Work it over with the best seam sealer you can get. Replace those funky heavy fiberglass poles with aluminum poles cut to the proper size. I would only use it for summer camping and weekend fair-weather backpacking. I did the above upgrading to an old $50 two man dome tent, and it works fine. The poles I got at REI in a bin used for tent returns. The tent is much liter now, and easy to backpack on those overnighters. For longer trips I use my North Face Tadpole NHP, which I am very pleased with. One reason to add to the other reasons to go with a more expensive (= durable) tent, is the weight. The Tadpole is 4 pounds, and packs down to a very small size, not to mention a breeze to put up, something to be thankful in a sudden rain shower or snow shower, I know. Between the 2 to 3 pounds the down bag saves me, and the three pounds the tent saves me, I have 5 pounds less to carry: pick up a 5 pound weight, and you will see it is nothing to sneeze at. Add that to the other areas you can trim weight, and it begins to add up. Unfortunately, there is a correlation between quality durable lightweight equipment and its cost… | "Bully! Bully!" – T. Roosevelt with John Muir at Glacier Point       | | "The mountains are calling me, and I must go."   John Muir           | |"Man has got astray out of his orbit, or away from the ends for which | | he was created." John Muir.                                          |

Response:

"What’s the difference between a North Face tent and a K-Mart ten..besides price?"

Well, I’ve got a Eureka Timberline (4-person), a $15 K-Mart 2 man and a Sierra Designs Flash Cliplight.  I can’t talk about North Face per se, but I can give some general comparisons. The real cheap tents have a single non-breathing roof.  Unless you have very dry weather, you get condensation, even with the "window" open. There is no covered overhang, so when it rains, you have to "close it up" and you get more condensation. The fabric is lightweight and not "ripstop".  That means if a tear starts it is more likely to continue than in a better made tent. Also, the seems are not done as well and are not as strong.  For a single overnight in a reasonable situation, its probably okay. But I wouldn’t want to have to depend on it for my life in a week long trip. OTOH, the cheap tents are often lightweight.  That’s nice for carrying.  And you don’t have a big investment so you don’t have to worry about protecting it (I ususally save more weight by not using a ground cloth, which I do use with my better tents.) IMO, the cheap tents are not too bad for simple trips in mild conditions.  But I wouldn’t depend on one for a week long trip. Ken

Response:

Serious question; what’s the difference besides price?  I’ve never done serious backcountry camping (yet), but I’ve camped out in some fairly cold places.  On my last cross-country trip, I woke up in the morning when the temperature was freezing, but I’d been perfectly warm in my $40 K-mart tent and my $30 Coleman rectangular sleeping bag. Granted, I got soaked when it rained the next day, but I hadn’t put on the rainfly.

Well, I owned a $40 tent from a large department store not unlike K-mart, and now own a $150 tent from a chain not unlike North Face. The big differents  is rain. The 40 buck tent leaked even with the rainfly.  So far not one drop has ever gotten into the $150 tent. But, the experience with the $40 really helped me in figuring out what makes a good rain proof tent.  And I really learn the value of seam sealers.  My $40 tent I didn’t use any seam sealer.  The $150 tent I used 2 bottles.  Would the $40 tent have leaked as much if I’d sealed it?  Probably.  The rain fly  on the $40 didn’t cover the tent completely.  So, as seen from above, parts of the tent were exposed.  I made sure the rain fly on the $150 tent completely covered the tent (actual a few places stick out).   Also, the seams that joined the floor and walls at ground level on the $40 tent. On the $150 tent, the floor sort of extents up and becomes the wall for 6 inches, so the wall/floor seam is 6 inches high and under the rain fly. HOMEBREW NAKED!                                  UUCP: …!ames!watson

Response: