Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I seem to miss alot of posts these days, and am wondering how well my own posts go out. If you see this post directly, could you please email me? Also, up until about 4 replies, could you also reply on ROFF and include the full text? If you don’t receive my post directly but see it on ROFF included in someone else’s reply, could you please email me that you didn’t receive it? Thanks in advance, Jon.

Response:

I think I can see it… no wait, that’s not it. Nevermind. — SaltyWaders "Old eyes can’t see shit…"

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I seem to miss alot of posts these days, and am wondering how well my own posts go out. If you see this post directly, could you please email me? Also, up until about 4 replies, could you also reply on ROFF and include the full text? If you don’t receive my post directly but see it on ROFF included in someone else’s reply, could you please email me that you didn’t receive it? Thanks in advance, Jon.

Response:

What post? Wolfgang

Response:

I seem to miss alot of posts these days, and am wondering how well my own posts go out. If you see this post directly, could you please email me? Also, up until about 4 replies, could you also reply on ROFF and include the full text? If you don’t receive my post directly but see it on ROFF included in someone else’s reply, could you please email me that you didn’t receive it? Thanks in advance, Jon.

I see it directly.  I just changed my ISP because of dropped messages and other newsgroups problems.

Response:

I saw it.                   Tom L

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[This followup was posted to rec.outdoors.fishing.fly and a copy was sent to the cited author.] Saw it here. I seem to miss alot of posts these days, and am wondering how well my own posts go out. If you see this post directly, could you please email me? Also, up until about 4 replies, could you also reply on ROFF and include the full text? If you don’t receive my post directly but see it on ROFF included in someone else’s reply, could you please email me that you didn’t receive it? Thanks in advance, Jon.

– Charles Davis    K4SWB <I’m The NRA

Response:

If you see this post directly, could you please email me? Also, up until about 4 replies, could you also reply on ROFF and include the full text? If you don’t receive my post directly but see it on ROFF included in someone else’s reply, could you please email me that you didn’t receive it? Thanks in advance, Jon

I saw it.  Didn

Question:

…….no one in Roff knows me….

I do!  I do! Idiot. Wolfgang

Response:

I’m going to give it a rest regarding Mike Connor as long as he discontinues the attacks and uncouth name calling. I have not, no matter what any bottom dweller in Roff would like to believe, started any of this pathetic nonsense.

The funniest thing I have heard in my 45 years… Paul

Response:

"My E-mail is always open to everyone, but  E-mails are private things to be read in private" I’m a little confused?? Lawrence Manzer New Brunswick

Response:

"My E-mail is always open to everyone, but  E-mails are private things to be read in private" I’m a little confused?? Lawrence Manzer New Brunswick

I know.  New Brunswick doesn’t have as much oxygen as the lower 48. Take deep breaths Lawrence. George Gehrke

Response:

I’m going to give it a rest regarding Mike Connor as long as he discontinues the attacks and uncouth name calling. I have not, no matter what any bottom dweller in Roff would like to believe, started any of this pathetic nonsense. The funniest thing I have heard in my 45 years… Paul

SEE, Paul!  There you go again! George Gehrke "who ended this thread two posts ago"

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"My E-mail is always open to everyone, but  E-mails are private things to be read in private" I’m a little confused??

It’s very long, complicated, confusing, amazing, not a little amusing, sad, extraordinary……um ……and a whole bunch of other adjectives. The short version.  Mike asked George not to send him any more emails some time ago.  He made it quite clear that failure to comply with this request would result in the emails being posted to ROFF and the rest, as they say, is history.  Opinions vary on whether George is genuinely and thoroughly demented or merely genuinely demented but still sane enough to be responsible for his actions.  It should not prove difficult to determine who allies him(or her)self with which camp but, for the record, it don’t matter to me.    :) Wolfgang

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "My E-mail is always open to everyone, but  E-mails are private things to be read in private" I’m a little confused?? Lawrence Manzer New Brunswick I know.  New Brunswick doesn’t have as much oxygen as the lower 48. Take deep breaths Lawrence.

Ah, PERFECT timing!  You see what I mean, Lawrence?      :) Wolfgang p.s. shhhh!  don’t let on that you know that new brunswick isn’t a u.s.

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I just can’t contain myself any longer…. New Brunswick   1.. Abbr. NB or N.B. A province of eastern Canada on the Gulf of St. Lawrence. Part of French Acadia and then the province of Nova Scotia, it became a separate province in 1784 after an influx of Loyalists from the newly independent United States. New Brunswick joined Nova Scotia, Quebec, and Ontario to form the confederated Dominion of Canada in 1867. Fredericton is the capital and St. John the largest city. Population: 696,405.   2.. A landmass not owned and not part of the USA or any other country except for Canada. Lawrence Manzer New Brunswick Canada (I think)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "My E-mail is always open to everyone, but  E-mails are private things to be read in private" I’m a little confused?? Lawrence Manzer New Brunswick I know.  New Brunswick doesn’t have as much oxygen as the lower 48. Take deep breaths Lawrence. Ah, PERFECT timing!  You see what I mean, Lawrence?      :) Wolfgang p.s. shhhh!  don’t let on that you know that new brunswick isn’t a u.s.

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Spoil-sport! Op

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just can’t contain myself any longer….   2.. A landmass not owned and not part of the USA or any other country except for Canada. Lawrence Manzer New Brunswick Canada (I think)

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I’, George here really hasn’t changed except Roff has.

        that is exactly right.  and that is because roff is darwinian, and is in the process of rejecting you.  the day will come, not that long from this day, that you will simply be a bad memory. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just can’t contain myself any longer…. New Brunswick   1.. Abbr. NB or N.B. A province of eastern Canada on the Gulf of St. Lawrence. Part of French Acadia and then the province of Nova Scotia, it became a separate province in 1784 after an influx of Loyalists from the newly independent United States. New Brunswick joined Nova Scotia, Quebec, and Ontario to form the confederated Dominion of Canada in 1867. Fredericton is the capital and St. John the largest city. Population: 696,405.   2.. A landmass not owned and not part of the USA or any other country except for Canada. Lawrence Manzer New Brunswick Canada (I think)

Uh oh!  Good God ya’ll, don’t just stand there!  Quick, what’s the number for 911?  Hurry, for pity’s sake, he’s swallowed a fuckin dictionary!     Wolfgang

Response:

that is exactly right.  and that is because roff is darwinian, and is in the process of rejecting you.  the day will come, not that long from this day, that you will simply be a bad memory.

you’re such an appreciative and faithful friend. as i pointed  out in this thread.  crow begets crow.  now, if you only understood and was more responsible to yourself, perhaps your misguided ravings towards old friends would cease?  that is too much to expect from a raving raven, huh? bad memories indeed?  you have a lot of nerve to talk buster because if you’re anything, you’re not darwinian at all wayne.  I am but a mirror of yourself.  haven’t you got that figured out yet wayne? think man!  think. Your pal in the great northwest, George "who is being nice.  very nice"

Response:

  The short version.  Mike asked George not to send him any more emails some time ago.  He made it quite clear that failure to comply with this request would result in the emails being posted to ROFF and the rest, as they say, is history.  Opinions vary on whether George is genuinely and thoroughly demented or merely genuinely demented but still sane enough to be responsible for his actions.  It should not prove difficult to determine who allies him(or her)self with which camp but, for the record, it don’t matter to me.    :) Wolfgang

Oh yes it does.   It matters a lot to you.  You live on misery Weirdwolf. George Gehrke had you figured out years ago You’re not a bad guy Wolfie, you’re just cofused about your importance in life.  Without others, you would have no identy in Roff. tilt* !

Response:

Read the post and try for comprehension.  NORTH is UP.  It’s up Weirdwolf. UP, UP, UP on the map . . . dummy. George Gehrke wake up pal.  wake up.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "My E-mail is always open to everyone, but  E-mails are private things to be read in private" I’m a little confused?? Lawrence Manzer New Brunswick I know.  New Brunswick doesn’t have as much oxygen as the lower 48. Take deep breaths Lawrence. Ah, PERFECT timing!  You see what I mean, Lawrence?      :) Wolfgang p.s. shhhh!  don’t let on that you know that new brunswick isn’t a u.s.

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Read the post and try for comprehension.  NORTH is UP.  It’s up Weirdwolf. UP, UP, UP on the map . . . dummy. George Gehrke wake up pal.  wake up.

Er, ‘cuse me, von Wrongtoffen, but "north" ain’t "up," either on the map or otherwise.  And I have no idea what may be up "Weirdwolf," but it ain’t north, neither…yeah, you musta been one real serious asset to the Commies during that little to-do in Korea…heck they probably even have an "Order of National Flag" waitin’ for you, if only you could find your way there to collect it…yessir, I can see it now: Kim Chong-il and "P’yongyang Ginkles," whatta photo-op…maybe your buddy Ted could fly you and his ex over to relive your glory days…

Response:

Read the post and try for comprehension.  NORTH is UP.  It’s up Weirdwolf. UP, UP, UP on the map . . . dummy. George Gehrke wake up pal.  wake up.

The ladies will, unfortunately (well, maybe it’s really fortunate when you think about it, but that’s another matter entirely), be unable to comprehend this on quite the visceral level that a man can, but ya know how ya cringe every time ya see some poor bastard get hit in the nuts on one of those funniest home video shows?  THAT’S what life is like for your would be supporters every time they see a post come up listing you as the author. Thanks. I KNEW I could count on you.      :) Idiot. Wolfgang

Response:

I just can’t contain myself any longer…. New Brunswick   1.. Abbr. NB or N.B. A province of eastern Canada on the Gulf of St. Lawrence. Part of French Acadia and then the province of Nova Scotia, it became a separate province in 1784 after an influx of Loyalists from the newly independent United States. New Brunswick joined Nova Scotia, Quebec, and Ontario to form the confederated Dominion of Canada in 1867. Fredericton is the capital and St. John the largest city. Population: 696,405.   2.. A landmass not owned and not part of the USA or any other country except for Canada.

       3. A late model bowling ball.

Response:

I have to admit, you got me on that one. Lawrence Manzer NB

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just can’t contain myself any longer…. New Brunswick   1.. Abbr. NB or N.B. A province of eastern Canada on the Gulf of St. Lawrence. Part of French Acadia and then the province of Nova Scotia, it became a separate province in 1784 after an influx of Loyalists from the newly independent United States. New Brunswick joined Nova Scotia, Quebec, and Ontario to form the confederated Dominion of Canada in 1867. Fredericton is the capital and St. John the largest city. Population: 696,405.   2.. A landmass not owned and not part of the USA or any other country except for Canada.        3. A late model bowling ball.

Response:

Idiot. Wolfgang

Talking to yourself again Weirdwolf?  You’re not an idiot.  You are a protracted peace in a state of confusion.  Just remember, if you’re an idiot that makes you a genius.  That’s not so bad. George Gehrke "caring about you"

Response:

I’m going to give it a rest regarding Mike Connor as long as he discontinues the attacks and uncouth name calling. I have not, no matter what any bottom dweller in Roff would like to believe, started any of this pathetic nonsense. I regard most in Roff as really neat people and as long as people are civil to me, I will always be respectful towards them.  My policy will continue to be that of condemning in private and praising in public.  If everyone in Roff would do the same and open their E-mail boxes like men, then I think it would be a step in the right direction for them to talk to each other in a manly and mature fashion. My E-mail is always open to everyone, but  E-mails are private things to be read in private and are not an open license to call others names or to demean them in private either. Men of logic use the best communication tools possible to get their points across.  The ability to tell a man to go to hell and make them look forward to the trip is known as "Rocky Mountain Diplomacy" which is something I hope to teach Wayne Harrison, given enough time . . . let’s say, five years? That aside, George here really hasn’t changed except Roff has.  When anyone dishes out nonsense, they should be able to eat a plate of raw crow in return.  Crow begot crow from this author.  At least, I’ve always tried to be civil but the next time anyone comes knocking on my door, the invite they receive will be an immediate reaction to the first words out of their mouths.  Come as a friend.  The rest of you who are not friends with anyone will find one here.  That anyone has so many friends they can’t use another needs thought on their part. Frankly, no one in Roff knows me.  I mean, no one.  Until you do or possibly fly fish with me as I guide you down the No Name River, it would be wise you reserve judgment. That said, all I can offer is that anyone who is man enough to step up to the plate and get ready for the first pitch. STRIKE ONE!  Oh?  You didn’t see that one, huh?  Okay, care to come inside and try some fly tying instead, (?) because you can’t hit for shit. George Gehrke "wisdom comes from a life-time of studying miles of rivers and seeing thousands of fly fishermen come and go.  Some of them you never forget because of their kindnesses and pleasant nature."  gg This is why I’m going to give it a rest. Back to fly fishing for me and my web site: http://www.gink.com

Response:

Question:

and why over-planning can lead to a skunking. We all get skunked sometimes but the skunkings that really bug me are the ones where others around me are catching fish and I’m getting diddly.  I don’t enjoy the feeling of incompetence.  The penny has finally dropped as to why (and no, the incompetence isn’t it.) We all go fishing operating on theory, approach, and method, but I’m starting to form the opinion that one can get too hung up on it. Before you dismiss me as being completely loonie consider this example of T.A.& M.: Theory – "Big browns feed at night." Approach – The big, slow pools on river XXXX should be fished at dusk. Method – Take a 6 wt. and cast a deerhair mouse pattern across current allowing the slow movement of the water to drag the mouse slowly across the pool. Unless one is a complete rookie, we all go through some sort of thought process like this before heading out.  But what happens if we do this in too great a detail and try to fit the river to our plans instead of the other way around?  What happens if there’s a hex hatch starting but we are still banging away with our mouse? Before setting out for the Penns clave, I’d pretty well decided that I’d swing wets or streamers if no hatch was happening.  The first day in, I was completely skunked until I gave up on the idea and began dredging the green water with PTs.  On my last trip to the Whirlpool, I had decided on speys and streamers, again nothing until I started dredging the bottom with bunny leeches.  Armed with this experience, I took my bunny leeches to the Catt, dredged the deep runs and was skunked again.  Last Sunday, I went to the Credit even though I knew the river would be blown out, just to try the new rod.  When I got down to the big tree pool, I tied on a black & purple spider spey and a sinking Polyleader as it seemed the appropriate thing to do, then began casting and drifting, getting the feel of the big stick, fixing casting problems, and fiddling with the mending.  Without even trying, I was into a fish.  In PA, the Whirlpool and at the Catt, I was getting skunked while others hooked fish.  At the Credit, I was the only one in the vicinity to get into a fish.  The boot was on the other foot. Duh!  Bingo!  Go with the flow instead or persisting with a pre-planned method.  It seems so blindingly obvious when I write it, but it’s so subtle to detect in real life.  We have to do some planning else we’d show up at the river with no rod but being too focused before leaving the house can saddle one with a goose egg. Perhaps I’m the only angler on the planet to do this, but I’m willing to bet I’m not.  From this point on, there will be at least one less. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Skunkings are primarily caused by being jinxed. To wit: Have you ever noticed that if you are catching fish hand over fist and then explain your success to another angler, the other angler will start catching fish and you will not catch another fish for at least 2 hours, probably the rest of the day? My fishing buddy, Rat, caught more fish on Good Friday than he had ever caught in his life. The rest of the summer, he was notably behind the curve. Even God is in on this. It is all superstition. Absolutely no science or method to it at all… — Citizen Fisherman I’m kinda spooked; I think I may have said too much already… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – and why over-planning can lead to a skunking. We all get skunked sometimes but the skunkings that really bug me are the ones where others around me are catching fish and I’m getting diddly.  I don’t enjoy the feeling of incompetence.  The penny has finally dropped as to why (and no, the incompetence isn’t it.) We all go fishing operating on theory, approach, and method, but I’m starting to form the opinion that one can get too hung up on it. Before you dismiss me as being completely loonie consider this example of T.A.& M.: Theory – "Big browns feed at night." Approach – The big, slow pools on river XXXX should be fished at dusk. Method – Take a 6 wt. and cast a deerhair mouse pattern across current allowing the slow movement of the water to drag the mouse slowly across the pool. Unless one is a complete rookie, we all go through some sort of thought process like this before heading out.  But what happens if we do this in too great a detail and try to fit the river to our plans instead of the other way around?  What happens if there’s a hex hatch starting but we are still banging away with our mouse? Before setting out for the Penns clave, I’d pretty well decided that I’d swing wets or streamers if no hatch was happening.  The first day in, I was completely skunked until I gave up on the idea and began dredging the green water with PTs.  On my last trip to the Whirlpool, I had decided on speys and streamers, again nothing until I started dredging the bottom with bunny leeches.  Armed with this experience, I took my bunny leeches to the Catt, dredged the deep runs and was skunked again.  Last Sunday, I went to the Credit even though I knew the river would be blown out, just to try the new rod.  When I got down to the big tree pool, I tied on a black & purple spider spey and a sinking Polyleader as it seemed the appropriate thing to do, then began casting and drifting, getting the feel of the big stick, fixing casting problems, and fiddling with the mending.  Without even trying, I was into a fish.  In PA, the Whirlpool and at the Catt, I was getting skunked while others hooked fish.  At the Credit, I was the only one in the vicinity to get into a fish.  The boot was on the other foot. Duh!  Bingo!  Go with the flow instead or persisting with a pre-planned method.  It seems so blindingly obvious when I write it, but it’s so subtle to detect in real life.  We have to do some planning else we’d show up at the river with no rod but being too focused before leaving the house can saddle one with a goose egg. Perhaps I’m the only angler on the planet to do this, but I’m willing to bet I’m not.  From this point on, there will be at least one less. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

George Adams writes: FWIW, I have have found the Jailbird to be most effective fished deep, as a dropper or under an indicator.

Shhhhhhhhh! Dave

Response:

what color closed cell foam?

On the original (olive) pattern, I use white or yellow. On the modified (tan) pattern, I use yellow or orange. They seem to be most successful in sizes #18 -#22. I have done well with this pattern tied on scud type (curved) hooks and conventional wet fly hooks. There are a number of midge pups patterns, Serendipity for example, that incorporate a bouyant (deer hair or foam) collar so , at least in theory, the fly rides upright in the water. FWIW, I have have found the Jailbird to be most effective fished deep, as a dropper or under an indicator. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

Response:

 It also helps to keep an open mind, and not get too fixated on one particular aspect (unless, as a couple of people have pointed out, THAT is the goal) if you are _fishing_, rather than experimenting, testing, etc.

Interesting point. On a local freestone stream, most folks hit the pools in the fall with PT nymphs, or midge/bwo dry patterns.  I was down in a spot with a couple of small pools and pocket water.  In the small pools I  was noticing every once in a while a leaf would hit the water and bang! it would get hit.  I watched it a couple of times, figuring out that there was a terrestrial hanging on the falling leaf that was getting hit.  I didn’t find out *what*, though . In addition, there were a lot of yellow jackets around.  In talking with some folks who fished succesfully in that stretch, they were using bee patterns very successfully, even though it was past the traditional time for terrestrials. On the leaves, it could have been some left over ants or something hanging on…don’t know for sure.  But of course, I was geared up with 20 and 22 BWO’s and BHPT’s which were being ignored. Similar observations and results with another angler upstream a bit.  I didn’t have any terrestrial patterns with me, though, or I would have tried them. Rob

Response:

what color closed cell foam? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – George Adams writes: Dave, Try the same pattern with tan dubbing, and either orange or yellow foam. {:-) And maybe change the ribbing to orange.  I’ll give it a try (come June). Dave

Response:

For me, it’s a matter of choosing a method at the house rather than when I arrived at the water, based either on past experience or just for the hell of it.  

Oh, well, yeah, you’re right then:  that’s just beggin’ for a skunkin’. When I would do that (for steelheading, it usually meant leaving one or another of the rods or lines at home, assuming I’d never, ever need it, not today), the invariable result was regret. Good luck on the Credit today.  BTW, how’s that thesis coming? JR

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I agree.  Being flexible is by far the best plan.  The trick to making it work, though, is to stick to it no matter what!  ;) Seriously, I wish life were that simple.  I’ve more than once been skunked in the morning, only to catch a mess in the afternoon, using the same technique.  Often the conditions change to coincide with whatever method we happen to be using.  Sometimes the "changed condition" can be simply moving down or up to a different piece of water.   Your post set me thinking back.  I don’t know that I’ve been skunked more often by sticking stubbornly to one method than by switching willy-nilly every twenty minutes from one fly and presentation to another.  The one thing to avoid, I think, is doing something–whatever it is–for no good reason, casting about blindly, as it were.  If I’ve decided on a method for good reason (weather, look of the water, behavior of the fish, past experience), I’ll generally stick with it until I’ve got an equally good reason to change.  Of course, human nature being what it is, a stretch of two or three fishless hours can in itself grow to seem a sufficient reason <g. Parenthetically, I find if the fishing is pleasant (balmy weather, pleasant scenery), I’m less tempted to change my plan than when it’s cold, grey, windy and raining. JR

For me, it’s a matter of choosing a method at the house rather than when I arrived at the water, based either on past experience or just for the hell of it.  The results are often not that good until I start paying attention to what the conditions are telling me.   I’ll be leaving for the Credit soon and this time I’ll be taking a good look at the water before I decide what to do. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Duh!  Bingo!  Go with the flow instead or persisting with a pre-planned method.  It seems so blindingly obvious when I write it, but it’s so subtle to detect in real life.  We have to do some planning else we’d show up at the river with no rod but being too focused before leaving the house can saddle one with a goose egg. Perhaps I’m the only angler on the planet to do this, but I’m willing to bet I’m not.  From this point on, there will be at least one less.

I agree.  Being flexible is by far the best plan.  The trick to making it work, though, is to stick to it no matter what!  ;) Seriously, I wish life were that simple.  I’ve more than once been skunked in the morning, only to catch a mess in the afternoon, using the same technique.  Often the conditions change to coincide with whatever method we happen to be using.  Sometimes the "changed condition" can be simply moving down or up to a different piece of water.   Your post set me thinking back.  I don’t know that I’ve been skunked more often by sticking stubbornly to one method than by switching willy-nilly every twenty minutes from one fly and presentation to another.  The one thing to avoid, I think, is doing something–whatever it is–for no good reason, casting about blindly, as it were.  If I’ve decided on a method for good reason (weather, look of the water, behavior of the fish, past experience), I’ll generally stick with it until I’ve got an equally good reason to change.  Of course, human nature being what it is, a stretch of two or three fishless hours can in itself grow to seem a sufficient reason <g. Parenthetically, I find if the fishing is pleasant (balmy weather, pleasant scenery), I’m less tempted to change my plan than when it’s cold, grey, windy and raining. JR

Response:

Example:  A couple of years ago I came across a pattern at an Orvis store. It’s called the "jail bird".  A very easy tie – size 20 hook, some closed cell foam at the thorax, olive dubbing with a red thread ribbing.

Dave, Try the same pattern with tan dubbing, and either orange or yellow foam. {:-) George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

Response:

George Adams writes: Dave, Try the same pattern with tan dubbing, and either orange or yellow foam. {:-)

And maybe change the ribbing to orange.  I’ll give it a try (come June). Dave

Response:

Skunkings are primarily caused by being jinxed. To wit: Have you ever noticed that if you are catching fish hand over fist and then explain your success to another angler, the other angler will start catching fish and you will not catch another fish for at least 2 hours, probably the rest of the day?

No, I’ve never noticed that. — Check out the ROFF Calendar at: http://www.ruralnetwork.net/%7Etroutbum/calendar/calendar.html

Response:

willi, I agree with you–it is fun just to try new methods and tools.  I never catch many fish but enjoy spending a little time reading then going out ant trying a new technique. still no success with streamers or upstream casting of nymphs- but then perhaps the fish had not read the same article. Had great fun in Oct. when Big Dale and I shared cabin on small N.C. stream.[ see below I hit wrong button] first time I got a chance to fish same stream for four days with similar weather conditions. Tried dries, nymphs and streamers  for a day each   all with  minor success.  The fourth morning I walked down to the creek, cast three times and caught three fish–then not another in two hours. Some days are more fun than others.      Indian Joe    Wilmington N.C. some days are more fun than others.

Response:

and why over-planning can lead to a skunking. We all get skunked sometimes but the skunkings that really bug me are the ones where others around me are catching fish and I’m getting diddly.  I don’t enjoy the feeling of incompetence.  The penny has finally dropped as to why (and no, the incompetence isn’t it.) We all go fishing operating on theory, approach, and method, but I’m starting to form the opinion that one can get too hung up on it.

It always helps to do some basic planning, and research/ reconnaissance, before hitting the water, just to know what’s there, so you can make an educated guess as to what’s possible, what’s likely, and what else _might_work if your originally-intended method seems to be "off."  It also helps to keep an open mind, and not get too fixated on one particular aspect (unless, as a couple of people have pointed out, THAT is the goal) if you are _fishing_, rather than experimenting, testing, etc. This is one reason why (a disappointingly decreasing percentage, I’d offer) some anglers take a few basic tying supplies with them (certainly on overnight or longer trips), even on all-day trips.  You don’t need a lot of stuff – a water-tight "flip-top" eyeglass or cigarette box will hold a sufficiency – but of course, some at-home freehand tying practice is important unless you want to lug a vise (I don’t, but a "multi-purpose" tool and stout rubber band will do in a pinch, as will a pin vise).  It also helps to be ready to use whatever is at hand as a material.  In fact, some notable "modification" patterns are reported to have originated with less-than-orthodox materials adapted "spur of the moment."  If you do use any less-than-orthodox material, depending on source, or even traditional material long-stored in fishing clothing, I’d advise attempting to remove as much "human scent" as possible – for example, if you use some pocket lint for dubbing, rub it in some natural material, dirt/mud (if it’s not on the reddish side), loam, etc. and rinse in the fishing water.  I can’t say for sure as to whether the fish can tell, but I do think that it’s better safe than sorry.

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Peter Charles wrote…. and why over-planning can lead to a skunking.

Not over planning just stubborness.   You want to do it the way you want and you forget why you’re there. Your way or no way.  A little flexibility and your accumulated knowledge and your back to catching fish. There’s no explaining a skunking. There’s no reason or logic when others are catching and you’re not. Unless you’re totally inept.  It’s just chance. Fate. What brings you back next time. Joel Axelrad **DFD**

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I’m getting into this discussion a little late…  In waters that I know, it is always fun to experiment with something new.  During the off-season (now), I will tie new patterns that I *know* will work.  Call it intuition.  Most times they *do*  work.   Example:  A couple of years ago I came across a pattern at an Orvis store. It’s called the "jail bird".  A very easy tie – size 20 hook, some closed cell foam at the thorax, olive dubbing with a red thread ribbing.  I *knew* it would work at a certain spot on a certain river.  My first short cast with it brought up a beautiful brookie. Another example, Peter, is those Clousers you tied in September.  When I saw them I knew they would work – and they did.  <g I’ve never been skunked on that river – came close a few times, however. That is when I stop my "normal" attack and use something different, something that I *know* they will like.  We’ve heard it said that trout are like women:  find out what they want and give it to them.  The finding out part can be very difficult, especially on waters unfamiliar to you.   Dave

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Peter,   You make, as ever, good points. I think another couple are:1)knowledge of the river you are fishing often prevents bad theory in the first place and 2) on hard-fished rivers, something different often works.   To feebly illustrate: Using your Penn’s example, I could have shown you places in the early morning to hammer them with streamers, even in the lower waters. Also, large wets were working pretty well in the off peak times over the right water. I had a bit more local knowledge(and you and David rendered yourselves out of reach of where I was fishing most days,lest any readers think I was witholding advice).

Well, that was my first thought. You’re right about fishing waters you know well. Knowing them well and the comfort that gives, is one of their pleasures. On my home river, there are a number of small areas I know that fish use as feeding stations that are almost always ignored by other anglers. They are in nondiscript water that I found from watching the fish during low water conditions or dimpling during a hatch. On the other hand, new waters are exciting; from figuring out where and how to fish, to just being in a new beautiful place. Willi

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Peter,   You make, as ever, good points. I think another couple are:1)knowledge of the river you are fishing often prevents bad theory in the first place and 2) on hard-fished rivers, something different often works.   To feebly illustrate: Using your Penn’s example, I could have shown you places in the early morning to hammer them with streamers, even in the lower waters. Also, large wets were working pretty well in the off peak times over the right water. I had a bit more local knowledge(and you and David rendered yourselves out of reach of where I was fishing most days,lest any readers think I was witholding advice).   For the other point, I once fished the Tulpehocken during a decent caddis emergence. I, and several others patiently tried adults, pupa and the like, to little effect. Some fella rolls through with a chartreuse Glo-bug and has browns of 18 inches or so chasing the thing. He landed 4 from the pool I was fishing and moved on…                                Tom L

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I agree that persisting with a pre-planned method is often going to result in few or no fish especially if the conditions don’t warrant the method you’ve chosen. However, there are times, especially on my home river that I decide I’m going to catch fish on my terms or I won’t catch any. Sometimes I just want to fish a particular technique, catching lots of fish isn’t always the goal. Sometimes it’s fun to try and "will" a fish to take something that "shouldn’t" work. Willi

I agree – you know X will catch fish so you try Y just for shits & giggles.  Done it many times.  That’s for waters you know well, however my sins extend to waters that I know squat about.  It’s just a matter of not bringing too many preconceived notions to the water. You can’t hear what the water is telling you over the cacophony of your plans. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – and why over-planning can lead to a skunking. We all get skunked sometimes but the skunkings that really bug me are the ones where others around me are catching fish and I’m getting diddly.  I don’t enjoy the feeling of incompetence.  The penny has finally dropped as to why (and no, the incompetence isn’t it.) Duh!  Bingo!  Go with the flow instead or persisting with a pre-planned method.  It seems so blindingly obvious when I write it, but it’s so subtle to detect in real life.  We have to do some planning else we’d show up at the river with no rod but being too focused before leaving the house can saddle one with a goose egg. Perhaps I’m the only angler on the planet to do this, but I’m willing to bet I’m not.  From this point on, there will be at least one less.

I agree that persisting with a pre-planned method is often going to result in few or no fish especially if the conditions don’t warrant the method you’ve chosen. However, there are times, especially on my home river that I decide I’m going to catch fish on my terms or I won’t catch any. Sometimes I just want to fish a particular technique, catching lots of fish isn’t always the goal. Sometimes it’s fun to try and "will" a fish to take something that "shouldn’t" work. Willi

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Question:

I will be on Amelia Island and have some opportunity to fish on Dec3-5, 2000.  Any information on the fishing there at that time will be appreciated.  I could fish on my own or with a guide, if anyone has suggestions.  Thanks for the help. Steve

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Hi Steve, Any questions you might have regarding Fly fishing  in Florida can be answered by one of our Florida Fly Fishing Professionals. Call toll free 1-877-505-8585 or contact us thru our website http://www.totalfishingadventures.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I will be on Amelia Island and have some opportunity to fish on Dec3-5, 2000.  Any information on the fishing there at that time will be appreciated.  I could fish on my own or with a guide, if anyone has suggestions.  Thanks for the help. Steve

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Question:

It’s our 2-year anniversary this weekend, and hubby and I had decided a couple of weeks ago that we’d go out to a nice restaurant for dinner.  Well, 2 nights ago he said he wanted to make a weekend of it and we could take a short trip somewhere.  I was so excite because 1) he never wants to take trips; and 2) I’d really been wanting to just get away for a couple of days for a long time coming, and this sounded perfect.  Well, this meant he’d have to work a late the rest of the week so he wouldn’t have to work this weekend.  I went to his work the night before and last night and helped out a bit.  I didn’t mind one bit even though I was having a bad week myself.  I just kept saying, just think of this weekend.  So I was really counting on it.  On our way home last night, I asked where he thought we could go this weekend.  He then said he was going to be too tired to go anywhere this weekend, and we’d do it next weekend.  I reminded him my mom was coming to visit that weekend.  So he said we’d do it some other time… which equates to never.   Believe me, every time we don’t have a definite date scheduled for something it never happens.  And we can’t schedule anything too far in advance now because of his erratic travel schedule. This has happenned before… where he’ll suggest something, get my hopes up, then it never happens.  Like this spring he suggested we take a weekend and go to one of the local resorts.  I said great.  Two weeks later when he hadn’t mentioned it further, I pulled out some brochures to look at with him.  He said he’d take care of the planning and not to push him on it (is looking at brochures pushing someone???).   Anyway, I never brought it up again, and the trip never happenned. To top things off, I went to the salon last night to lighten my hair (from dark brown -> medium brown) and I ended up blonde (kinda my fault, long story).  I’m going back this weekend to get it fixed (for free), but I have to sit through work today (including a meeting with the CEO of our company this morning) with blonde hair. OK, I feel better now.  Thanks for the ears.  Oh, and any advice on how to handle hubby’s lack of planning would be greatly appreciated. Melissa * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

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From: melissa >So he >said we’d do it some other time… which equates to never.  

Ooooh I HATE that!!  Here’s what you do. The moment he says, "let’s go" you ask, "where to?"  The idea is to get him on the upswing and strike while the iron’s hot.  Get as much info from him at this time, ’cause as the days go by there will be more of a chance that he’ll change his mind. Once you have an idea of what he prefers, you take it upon yourself to make all the arrangements.  Don’t ask him what he thinks about this or that during the planning period… just do it, but do keep in mind his likes and dislikes…. as in don’t plan on a beach resort getaway if hubby mentioned going to the mountains in that preliminary conversation. When everything is arranged (and paid for) present him with the plan. Be prepared for a tantrum… and even for the possibility that you won’t be going anywhere.  In that case, remind him that there go $X that you’ll never get back. Also, be prepared for hubby to reproach the fact that you went ahead and made all the plans without him.  That’s when you *calmly* tell him exactly how it makes you feel when he promises something and then doesn’t come through. Explain that you didn’t want to be disappointed again so you took it upon yourself to plan the trip.  If nothing else, you’ll get started on communicating  about the problem.  Maybe it’ll break him of the bad habit of blowing smoke up your ass.  Good luck.

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Melissa Quick, you have half a day to plan. Find a nice place that is not too far from home and relaxing. Pack your bag and his and as soon as he comes home, kidnap him. Tell him he has to do nothing just enjoy being with you and he can relax. Then drive off with him … Sorry, my imagination is running wild but I do feel for you. This is a hard situation to be in …. I think Gidget’s ideas are great though. Katie Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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melissa wrote: > reminded him my mom was coming to visit that weekend.  So he > said we’d do it some other time… which equates to never.

I can feel the disappointment oozing off the screen here on my end.   > Believe me, every time we don’t have a definite date > scheduled for something it never happens.  And we can’t > schedule anything too far in advance now because of his > erratic travel schedule.

Trent’s idea has merit (i.e., schedule non-refundable vacations, etc), but my guess is that you’re limited by his travel schedule.  If that’s the case, then you’ll have to gird yourself and dicuss how his behavior in this manner bothers you.  And THEN start scehduling non-refundable vacations!  :) > resorts.  I said great.  Two weeks later when he hadn’t > mentioned it further, I pulled out some brochures to look at > with him.  He said he’d take care of the planning and not to > push him on it (is looking at brochures pushing someone???).

It could be seen that way.  If he wanted to have children right now and you wanted to wait a few years, would his leaving a copy of "Parents" magazine laying around be seen as pushing by you?  Its all in the eye of the beholder.   You know what, though?  When you couple this vacation-ditching conduct with the cold feet house purchase, he does seem to have a thing about committing, though.  Its got to be exasperating. > To top things off, I went to the salon last night to lighten > my hair (from dark brown -> medium brown) and I ended up > blonde (kinda my fault, long story).  I’m going back this > weekend to get it fixed (for free), but I have to sit > through work today (including a meeting with the CEO of our > company this morning) with blonde hair.

Missie!  I think you look devine as a blonde!  If you’re serious about having it fixed this weekend, I’m sorely tempted to make a comment about your husband having a short window of opportunity for role-playing sex involving a blonde.  But sometimes discretion wins.  I won’t say anything!  :) > OK, I feel better now.  Thanks for the ears.  Oh, and any > advice on how to handle hubby’s lack of planning would be > greatly appreciated.

Have you read Passionate Marriage yet?  Its a given in marriage that the low desire partner controls the amount of any activity (in this case, vacationing). But you know what?  I don’t think its a low desire issue here…I think its a reluctance to commit to some course of behavior.  Why don’t *you* commit him instead (not to a mental institution, although I bet that’s crossed your mind Drew

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floridanewbie wrote in message

<37c0e0d7.117195…@news.flatoday.infi.net>… >On 23 Aug 1999 01:16:51 GMT, gidgeto…@aol.com (GidgetOliv) wrote: ><snip> >>What do you folks think of homeschooling? (I know there are newsgroups dealing >>with the topic, but I want to know what people *here* think.)  Just curious… >Education involves so much more than just learning from books … how >about the social aspects of learning about different kinds of people, >getting along in groups and learning how to settle conflicts in an >acceptable manner?

There are many many schools where this doesn’t apply. I don’t think that the alternatives to public education sprang up purely because of doubts that the children were receiving anadequate education. I really think that there is more to it. These alternatives are a way of coping with situations that are otherwise intolerable for many. >Additionally, in a good classroom, the teacher will let the group >stumble around trying to solve problems or discuss aspects of an >assignment … even wrong answers or peculiar tangents contain much >useful knowledge .. that is missing in home schooling.

The qualifier there is "good classroom". They’re becoming more rare with each passing day. I know several good teachers who are very frustrated at the way things have developed over the past couple of decades. >Then there are the athletic aspects … unless home school parents have >a dozen kids, most physical activites involving teamwork can’t be done.

Sure they can – kids can still play hockey and baseball etc on the community teams. >Granted, if a person lives in the middle of an ice field in Alaska or is >otherwise isolated, home schooling beats no schooling but in general, >while people mean well, I suspect a great many kids are being ill-served >with such efforts.

The studies are showing (at least where I live) that home schooled children are on par or above children who are attending public, private, and charter schools. >Instead of yanking the kids out of school, find out >exactly what is being done and then supplement those efforts with the >things you think are missing.

What if it’s not the missing things that bother you? What if it’s the things that are being done? >By the way, I seriously doubt many parents are competent across the >board other than for the lowest levels of school …

I thinkmany parents don’t realize the work that is involved. Im’ not sure it’s a matter of competency but there is a huge time commitment for each passing grade. You work for it just as much (if not more) than your children do. >the first few years would seem to put the child at a big disadvantage >when s/he is thrown into the arena with kids who already know the ropes >and who have formed strong friendships.

One has to be very careful to introduce social situations whenever possible to avoid that type of scenario. — ….my two cents ….

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GidgetOliv wrote in message

<19990822211651.24654.00001…@ng-ch1.aol.com>… >What do you folks think of homeschooling? (I know there are newsgroups dealing >with the topic, but I want to know what people *here* think.)  Just

curious… It depends on the situation. It takes a lot of time (and I do mean a lot)… you have to be very careful that it doesn’t put a wedge between you and your kid(s) cause you’re now the parent and the teacher… kind of hard to find time to relax sometimes. The plus side is that you have a whole lot more input into your child’s education and you can be actively involved in shaping their future. You might want to check out the area that you live in to see what kind of support is given to homeschooling families. In our area, we have the full resources of the schools in our district as well as staff from the distance learning center. The newsgroups and your community papers will probably give you more of a lead about what’s available. Before you make the choice, you might want to check other options – like an online school,perhaps, where the kids have a teacher but you have the kids at home. It would help you decide which would be best if you know why you are looking for alternatives. — ….my two cents ….

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On 23 Aug 1999 01:16:51 GMT, gidgeto…@aol.com (GidgetOliv) wrote: <snip> >What do you folks think of homeschooling? (I know there are newsgroups dealing >with the topic, but I want to know what people *here* think.)  Just curious…

Education involves so much more than just learning from books … how about the social aspects of learning about different kinds of people, getting along in groups and learning how to settle conflicts in an acceptable manner? In classrooms, students see that people learn at different rates and in different ways.  Some do better with quantitative methods while others thrive with qualitative methods.  Home schooling most likely will only use one method; that risks stunting the potential growth that might otherwise occur. Additionally, in a good classroom, the teacher will let the group stumble around trying to solve problems or discuss aspects of an assignment … even wrong answers or peculiar tangents contain much useful knowledge .. that is missing in home schooling. Then there are the athletic aspects … unless home school parents have a dozen kids, most physical activites involving teamwork can’t be done. Granted, if a person lives in the middle of an ice field in Alaska or is otherwise isolated, home schooling beats no schooling but in general, while people mean well, I suspect a great many kids are being ill-served with such efforts.   Instead of yanking the kids out of school, find out exactly what is being done and then supplement those efforts with the things you think are missing. By the way, I seriously doubt many parents are competent across the board other than for the lowest levels of school … to home school for the first few years would seem to put the child at a big disadvantage when s/he is thrown into the arena with kids who already know the ropes and who have formed strong friendships. Floridanewbie

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GidgetOliv asked: >What do you folks think of homeschooling

It has become a very popular alternative here in Alaska. It is working very well and has attempted to alleviate as many of the shortcomings as possible. We have one public school district (open state-wide) where you get a computer when you enroll and attend classes on-line. The homeschooled kids have their own graduation ceremony here in Fairbanks. We have 3 students in our karate school whose monthly dues are paid by the school district to satisfy their physical education requirement (or some other elective). It wouldn’t work for me, though. I am not confident that I have the right temperament to teach my own children. I don’t know whether I could be objective enough. — Sourdough sez: We would worry a lot less about what other people think of us, if we realized how seldom they do.

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From: floridanew…@hotmail.com  (floridanewbie) >trent_m…@hotmail.com (Trent) wrote: ><snip> >>–      What have you done to save your schoolchild this year? >Just sneaking in here Trent … >that list of things (security and safety) people should know about their >children’s schools is at Gavin deBecker’s site:

This post reminds me…. What do you folks think of homeschooling? (I know there are newsgroups dealing with the topic, but I want to know what people *here* think.)  Just curious…

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In article <11f733ec.1e956…@usw-ex0106-048.remarq.com>, melissa  <missie.johnsonNOcrS…@eudoramail.com> wrote: >It’s our 2-year anniversary this weekend, and hubby and I >had decided a couple of weeks ago that we’d go out to a nice >restaurant for dinner.  Well, 2 nights ago he said he wanted >to make a weekend of it and we could take a short trip >somewhere.  I was so excite because 1) he never wants to

Well… I would have gone anyway.  Yes, even if that meant going by yourself.  Because you know why… I get the feeling that this scenario plays itself out again and again because nothing otherwise happens.   Yes, I would have said, "Oh, that’s too bad. Will you really be too tired? Oh, well, I’m going to go.  I really wish you’d come to." Then do it. He either would not have come, in which case you could have had a nice relaxing weekend to yourself. If he had come, then you would have rousted him out of his old lazy habits, and the two of you could have had a great time. He "ruins" things for you so often because in a way, you let him. amy — alyo…@bluemarble.net                   http://www.bluemarble.net/~alyoung                         Speaking only for myself.

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I’m not a big fan especially after 3-4th grade because the kids get educaion from various people who are trained very highly in the subjects they’re teaching.  There’s no way I have the resources to give my child the kind of round education in music, chemistry, and algebra that three different teachers who have degrees to teach these specifics can.  I’m a big supporter of private and magnet schools. Tamara – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> GidgetOliv said… > This post reminds me…. > What do you folks think of homeschooling? (I know there are newsgroups dealing > with the topic, but I want to know what people *here* think.)  Just curious…

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Nothing serious but sometimes people refuse to do things if they have problems with strangers. I mean maybe he gained weight and he doesn’t like to see people, maybe he doesn’t have nice out fits, maybe he doesn’t like the car..etc U know anything and it could be nothing but being busy with work. * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

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I think for some people homeschooling could work out. The people who I know who homeschool have had all good things to say, and their kids have ended up doing great on their SAT’s and in college. Personnally though, I would love to be able to teach my kids and have that family time before they grow up and move on. But, I don’t think I could do justice to their education. I am well educated, and excelled in school, but kids today are learning more, and learning it different then I did even 10 yrs. ago. I also think that kids have to experience the socializing with their peers. I hate when kids are teased, and the bickering that goes on amongst the children at school, but I also realize that kids learn how to adjust, and learn that in their life they are going to run into people that don’t see eye to eye with them. I don’t believe that school is only for education. School teaches you life, socialization, and commitments, and responsibilities. Just my 2 cents worth momalot – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -GidgetOliv wrote: > From: floridanew…@hotmail.com  (floridanewbie) > >trent_m…@hotmail.com (Trent) wrote: > ><snip> > >>–      What have you done to save your schoolchild this year? > >Just sneaking in here Trent … > >that list of things (security and safety) people should know about their > >children’s schools is at Gavin deBecker’s site: > This post reminds me…. > What do you folks think of homeschooling? (I know there are newsgroups dealing > with the topic, but I want to know what people *here* think.)  Just curious…

– ned!

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do something for yourself…..go to a movie go shopping just do something gary

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Sorry I misunderstood.  I realize that some people just like to get to where they’re going and not have to bothered with the details. I Agree with you!  I think we all feel that way sometimes about something. But if this guy is this way.  Why does he seem to get so pissed when she tries to take the initiative?  Also, the worries about whether you can afford it or not might be valid.  Can you afford these trips Melissa?  Are you 100% aware of all financial situations in your marriage?  Make sure you know all about his and your debt and responsibilities.  Because, If he works like a dog for a vacation and you help.  Then, all of the sudden he is too tired to go and worried about the money. There might be something he is afraid to share.  Maybe he is just more worried about spending or working up debt on the credit cards or something.  You should save for a vacation.  Not just up and go and think you will just put it on the "card" and pay for it later.  This is how you get upside down in debt.  Be careful, I think lots of relatively new marriages have these problems. L8R, Carl – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -GidgetOliv wrote: > From: Carl mcent…@earthlink.net > >Yeah, or maybe he’ll just start blowing all of his vacation days from that > >point on > >fishing with the guys.  I would be careful dropping that kind of bomb on a > >guy. > Absolutely!  But I never meant for her to keep it a secret… just to take him > up on it but be in charge of all the planning. > My partner does this every year… he’s usually the one to suggest vacation > destinations, but I’m the one who gets to do all the booking and planning. > Not complaining in the least, as I realize that some people just like to get to > where they’re going and not have to bothered with the details.

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>I >do like the idea of planning something myself with advance >notice from him.  He wouldn’t be thrilled, but as long as it >wasn’t something he’d openly opposed… he’d go along with >it.

Some people just don’t like the element of surprise.  You can always tell him that "his" idea to get away is an excellent one, and that he shouldn’t worry because you’ll take care of the arrangements.  That way you won’t be surprising him with plans "out of the blue" Also, you mentioned that he whines about whether or not you can afford it.  It got me thinking… maybe during that first conversation, when he says "let’s get away" you could say "I don’t know… can we afford it?"  If it’s *his* idea to get away, he might come back with something like, "Sure we can… we’re just talking [blank] bucks or so."  If he does, then you can use his figure and plan around that budget.  Then if he whines, you remind him that it was all his idea in the first place.  :)

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On Fri, 20 Aug 1999 19:37:06 GMT, trent_m…@hotmail.com (Trent) wrote:

<snip> >–      What have you done to save your schoolchild this year?

Just sneaking in here Trent … that list of things (security and safety) people should know about their children’s schools is at Gavin deBecker’s site:   http://www.gdbinc.com/ Floridanewbie

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> Can you afford these trips Melissa?  Are you 100% aware of > all financial situations in your marriage?

Yes, we can afford the kind of weekend trip he was talking about.  About our financial situation, I know more about it than he does… I’m the bill payer in the house, and I see everything, from credit card info to checkcard info to what checks went where. Melissa * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

What about planning something that you can afford? Trade houses with a family member or friend out of town? Even a picnic can be a getaway if you plan right. There are specials posted on the web for hotels and stuff….. last minute deals……. usually the ones in your own town are quite reasonable. — ….my two cents …. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -melissa wrote in message <0221c012.928fa…@usw-ex0102-014.remarq.com>… > Besides, the last time I surprised him with a night away >from home, all he did was whine about whether or not we >could afford it.  It really ruined the evening.

Response:

From: Carl mcent…@earthlink.net >Yeah, or maybe he’ll just start blowing all of his vacation days from that >point on >fishing with the guys.  I would be careful dropping that kind of bomb on a >guy.

Absolutely!  But I never meant for her to keep it a secret… just to take him up on it but be in charge of all the planning. My partner does this every year… he’s usually the one to suggest vacation destinations, but I’m the one who gets to do all the booking and planning. Not complaining in the least, as I realize that some people just like to get to where they’re going and not have to bothered with the details.

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Yeah, or maybe he’ll just start blowing all of his vacation days from that point on fishing with the guys.  I would be careful dropping that kind of bomb on a guy. Doing it in stages might be better.  For instance, if you have to fly, mention you purchased the airline tickets for the "trip" today (get the kind you can schedule departure after the fact).  Then ask when it would be a good time to sit down and figure out the dates so you can schedule the departure and hotel reservations. Then, at the point you notice his interest is peaking and he has accepted the fact you are going.  Ask him to help plan or investigate some activities to do while you are there and express that you want to make sure you do things he would like. Carl – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -GidgetOliv wrote: > From: melissa > >So he > >said we’d do it some other time… which equates to never. > Ooooh I HATE that!!  Here’s what you do. > The moment he says, "let’s go" you ask, "where to?"  The idea is to get him on > the upswing and strike while the iron’s hot.  Get as much info from him at this > time, ’cause as the days go by there will be more of a chance that he’ll change > his mind. > Once you have an idea of what he prefers, you take it upon yourself to make all > the arrangements.  Don’t ask him what he thinks about this or that during the > planning period… just do it, but do keep in mind his likes and dislikes…. > as in don’t plan on a beach resort getaway if hubby mentioned going to the > mountains in that preliminary conversation. > When everything is arranged (and paid for) present him with the plan. Be > prepared for a tantrum… and even for the possibility that you won’t be going > anywhere.  In that case, remind him that there go $X that you’ll never get > back. > Also, be prepared for hubby to reproach the fact that you went ahead and made > all the plans without him.  That’s when you *calmly* tell him exactly how it > makes you feel when he promises something and then doesn’t come through. > Explain that you didn’t want to be disappointed again so you took it upon > yourself to plan the trip.  If nothing else, you’ll get started on > communicating  about the problem.  Maybe it’ll break him of the bad habit of > blowing smoke up your ass.  Good luck.

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> Find a nice place that is not too far from home and > relaxing. Pack your bag and his and as soon as he comes > home, kidnap him. Tell him he has to do nothing just enjoy > being with you and he can relax. Then drive off with him > …

As much as I’d *love* to do this, I don’t think he’d be too happy at all, which would cause him much misery on what should be a happy occasion.  Just the fact that I went ahead and planned something he’d nixed would really piss him off.  Besides, the last time I surprised him with a night away from home, all he did was whine about whether or not we could afford it.  It really ruined the evening. Thanks for the advice though you guys, I appreciate it.  I do like the idea of planning something myself with advance notice from him.  He wouldn’t be thrilled, but as long as it wasn’t something he’d openly opposed… he’d go along with it. Melissa * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

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> Missie! I think you look devine as a blonde! If you’re > serious about having it fixed this weekend, I’m sorely > tempted to make a comment about your husband having a > short window of opportunity for role-playing sex involving > a blonde. But sometimes discretion wins. I won’t say > anything!

Thanks for the discretion, Drew.  Actually, I’m at auburn now (I had it fixed just a little while ago).  Not what I wanted, but not blonde, either.  You’ve gotta understand, I’m definitely not one of those complexions that is good for blonde hair.  My natural hair color is so dark a brown it’s almost black!  Anyhow, I like the auburn… I feel much much better. Melissa * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

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Well, then go off and have a fun weekend by yourself. If he insists on spoiling things, don’t allow yourself to be dragged down to his level. Yes, it’s your anniversary … he’s shown a disregard for your feelings in this matter. Take yourself to a nice hotel or B&B, snuggle up with a brandy and a good book, and spoil yourself. –Welmoed

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Melissa, what would happen if you planned the weekend…Get flowers, dress the house up a little with decorations like it was someplace else.  Then, make sure you send up a flare to the families/friends that call often to resist unless it’s an emergency.  Get a new cute "lingerie" type item and have a romantic dinner planned with his favorite meal.  It could be pizza by candlelight if that’s what he loves.  Then, during the evening maybe post-meal while your stomachs are settling, before the "passionate replay of the consummation of your marriage", mention how you wanted to give him a "weekend away" without the hassle of traveling somewhere and that you hope he would try harder to plan a short trip somewhere for you soon.  I for one would love this myself…maybe I should keep a copy of this for my wife. Good luck, Carl P.S.  All marriages have bumps and you shouldn’t feel bad about maybe seeking some biblically based counseling to help with your communication skills and understanding each others different needs. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -melissa wrote: > It’s our 2-year anniversary this weekend, and hubby and I > had decided a couple of weeks ago that we’d go out to a nice > restaurant for dinner.  Well, 2 nights ago he said he wanted > to make a weekend of it and we could take a short trip > somewhere.  I was so excite because 1) he never wants to > take trips; and 2) I’d really been wanting to just get away > for a couple of days for a long time coming, and this > sounded perfect.  Well, this meant he’d have to work a > late the rest of the week so he wouldn’t have to work this > weekend.  I went to his work the night before and last night > and helped out a bit.  I didn’t mind one bit even though I > was having a bad week myself.  I just kept saying, just > think of this weekend.  So I was really counting on it.  On > our way home last night, I asked where he thought we could > go this weekend.  He then said he was going to be too tired > to go anywhere this weekend, and we’d do it next weekend.  I > reminded him my mom was coming to visit that weekend.  So he > said we’d do it some other time… which equates to never. > Believe me, every time we don’t have a definite date > scheduled for something it never happens.  And we can’t > schedule anything too far in advance now because of his > erratic travel schedule. > This has happenned before… where he’ll suggest something, > get my hopes up, then it never happens.  Like this spring he > suggested we take a weekend and go to one of the local > resorts.  I said great.  Two weeks later when he hadn’t > mentioned it further, I pulled out some brochures to look at > with him.  He said he’d take care of the planning and not to > push him on it (is looking at brochures pushing someone???). > Anyway, I never brought it up again, and the trip never > happenned. > To top things off, I went to the salon last night to lighten > my hair (from dark brown -> medium brown) and I ended up > blonde (kinda my fault, long story).  I’m going back this > weekend to get it fixed (for free), but I have to sit > through work today (including a meeting with the CEO of our > company this morning) with blonde hair. > OK, I feel better now.  Thanks for the ears.  Oh, and any > advice on how to handle hubby’s lack of planning would be > greatly appreciated. > Melissa > * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * > The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

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Question:

        I got tired of catching the regular fish we had around here so I asked a friend what we could do about getting in some different species. He said that he had been to Arkansas and up there they planted trout. I called the Fish and Game people and they were more than happy to send me some baby rainbows. Now, here’s the problem….         I keep planting them and they keep dying. I asked my buddy about it and he thinks we’re planting them too deep. My thought is…maybe our soil ain’t right. ps. Would fish meal be a good fertilizer? Why aren’t you fishing? Da’ Capt

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YOU GOT IT RIGHT!  They are definitely planted too deep.  Also, maybe browns would work better? Ed BTW – forget it!

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All hatchery trout should be planted, preferably in dirt. — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-Mail Selling my Fly Fishing Books Go to: http://users.ccnet.com/~emh – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – YOU GOT IT RIGHT!  They are definitely planted too deep.  Also, maybe browns would work better? Ed BTW – forget it!

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Are you planting the heads UP or DOWN ???? Bill – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –         I got tired of catching the regular fish we had around here so I asked a friend what we could do about getting in some different species. He said that he had been to Arkansas and up there they planted trout. I called the Fish and Game people and they were more than happy to send me some baby rainbows. Now, here’s the problem….         I keep planting them and they keep dying. I asked my buddy about it and he thinks we’re planting them too deep. My thought is…maybe our soil ain’t right. ps. Would fish meal be a good fertilizer? Why aren’t you fishing? Da’ Capt

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I have the opportunity to teach up outside of Bethel.  I’m very much aware of the difference in geography and the general feel of the area. I’d be interested in any input from someone who has been there as to what sorts of outdoors activities can be done there.  Thanks. well, subsistence outdoor activities (hunting, fishing, gathering wild plant foods and medicines) are the culture in the area.  i mean those folks really do live off the land, and they usually waste absolutely nothing.  i mean that when they trap for muskrats, they not only sell the fur, they make muskrat soup and the meal is not considered over until everyone has cracked the bones and sucked out the marrow.  then the trapper returns the cleaned bones to the area where the animal was killed, to honor its spirit. this culture has very different values than you are probably used to, and a world view that is alien to most white folks.  if you are really considering moving to the YK delta to teach, you should immediately cross-cultural communication, a video of a college lecture series by father michael oleksa, a russian orthodox priest married to a yup’ik woman from aniak.   from a strictly "sports" point of view, this is a very wet river delta area, very rich in fish and wildlife.  small boats and float planes are the primary means of transportation in summer, and snowmobiles in the winter.  the kuskokwin and its tributaries are the primary transportation corridors. you’re starting a little late to move this year, because most folks order their winter groceries early in the spring so they can be delivered by boat during the summer. be prepared for *severe* culture shock.

I once had a chance to teach in Barrow.  But I turned it down and stayed in Kenai area instead.  I had heard it can be tough for a non-native to function up there, that it’s a very closed place to "foreigners" (although some of my friends love it out in the bush).  In the end, eventhough I love the outdoors, "cross-cultural" experiences, and am a fanatical wilderness camper, I just didn’t want to live somewhere where I couldn’t get in my car and leave once in the while on the weekend.  You do have to be willing to try to live there, get to know people, and don’t think just because you make a lot of money that you can afford to fly out of there anytime you want. I do recall that once in a biology class, we were dissecting cats and a Yup’ik girl said something to the effect, "Why don’t we do seals?"  She said she could cut up a seal in fairly short period of time (I don’t remember what it was).  To which I replied, "If we cut up a seal in the lab, we won’t be able to eat it since the lab is full of chemicals and stuff.  We’d have to throw it away."  She thought that was a pretty good answer. I now work with, at least, a couple of Apache students every year.  One of the most difficult things to get them to participate in the class.  They don’t talk much.  Although I admire the fact that, unlike whites, Apaches only talk when they really have something to say, don’t feel the need to impress everyone by being clever or running their gums constantly, and they spend a lot of time listening, it does kind of make white man educational methods a bit difficult to use. My most interesting native job prospect turned out to not be interesting.  I once applied for a job on the south rim of the Grand Canyon.  My thinking was that I could be in the boonies, maybe get to know some of the natives, but still be able to get away once in the while on the weekends.  I had a telephone interview which seemed to go pretty well.  But when I got out a map, I couldn’t find the town on it.  So I called back for that information, got it, and hung up.  About 30 minutes laters, a member of the search committee called me back and in a serious voice said, "The committee feels that there is something you need to know about this town.  Many of the people here are polygamous Mormons.  Your wife won’t be able to work here and you will probably want to live in St. George, UT which a more normal town."   Well, I decided I wasn’t quite that adventurous.  However, if either Barrow or northern Arizona call again, I think I’m ready for it. Quotes of the Week:   I have learned that the swiftest traveler is he that goes afoot." "To make a railroad round the world available to all mankind is equivalent to grading the whole surface of the planet." Walden, Henry David Thoreau

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I have the opportunity to teach up outside of Bethel.  I’m very much aware of the difference in geography and the general feel of the area. I’d be interested in any input from someone who has been there as to what sorts of outdoors activities can be done there.  Thanks.

well, subsistence outdoor activities (hunting, fishing, gathering wild plant foods and medicines) are the culture in the area.  i mean those folks really do live off the land, and they usually waste absolutely nothing.  i mean that when they trap for muskrats, they not only sell the fur, they make muskrat soup and the meal is not considered over until everyone has cracked the bones and sucked out the marrow.  then the trapper returns the cleaned bones to the area where the animal was killed, to honor its spirit. this culture has very different values than you are probably used to, and a world view that is alien to most white folks.  if you are really considering moving to the YK delta to teach, you should immediately cross-cultural communication, a video of a college lecture series by father michael oleksa, a russian orthodox priest married to a yup’ik woman from aniak.   from a strictly "sports" point of view, this is a very wet river delta area, very rich in fish and wildlife.  small boats and float planes are the primary means of transportation in summer, and snowmobiles in the winter.  the kuskokwin and its tributaries are the primary transportation corridors. you’re starting a little late to move this year, because most folks order their winter groceries early in the spring so they can be delivered by boat during the summer. be prepared for *severe* culture shock. Unsolicited commercial email to my corrected address is subject to prosecution under 47 USC 227(b)(1).  E-mail and Reply-to disguised to prevent Spam and to suggest that SPAMBOTs which harvest sigfiles will like replies Virtual Juneau          http://www.alaska.net/~dpharris

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snip  and Reply-to disguised to prevent Spam and to suggest that SPAMBOTs which harvest sigfiles will like replies Virtual Juneau          http://www.alaska.net/~dpharris

Dennis ‘hit the nail on the head’! By the way…which village is it? Steve

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I have the opportunity to teach up outside of Bethel.  I’m very much aware of the difference in geography and the general feel of the area. I’d be interested in any input from someone who has been there as to what sorts of outdoors activities can be done there.  Thanks.

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Question:

I am looking for anyone that remembers an old lure called the Blue River Spinner . Its origin is believed to be in Southern Indiana and the maker from Shelbyville. Any info would be greatly appreciated.

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Being from southern Indiana and having spent forty years in the tackle industry to boot, I am sorry to say that I only recall the name but not any of the specifics about the lure itself. I will certainly research it for you and if I come up with anything, I will pass it along. Best Regards, I am looking for anyone that remembers an old lure called the Blue River Spinner . Its origin is believed to be in Southern Indiana and the maker from Shelbyville. Any info would be greatly appreciated.

         Trent Roberson            Rx F Fish  For Your Good Health, Fly Fish URL=http://www.xnet.com/~rxffish

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Question:

I have an e-mail freind who lives in Michigan who would like to join a fly fishing club ! She lives in Ann Arbor area ! Please e-mail me any info you have or may be a small list of shops in the area which are recommended? General question ; Is there a site on the WEB which lists Fly Fishing clubs and or organizations ie. FFF Trout Unlimited ect. ??? Thanks in advance Rich Lob Left Coaster Livermore Fly Fishers

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Check with MacGregors in AA 616-761-9200. I think a TU group meets at their fly shop. Ann

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The Ann Arbor chapter of Trout Unlimited is going to meet at Community High School, starting next month.  The meetings are usually on the third Wednesday night of the month.  Carl Heuter is the current president (in the A2 phone book), and MacGregor’s is another good place to get the meeting information.

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Question:

hmmmmm an angleworm… does that work better that a dry fly !!!!!

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –      In his book "How to Fish the Pacific Coast" author Ray Cannon made the following observation:      "The aristocrat of ocean fisherman is the surf angler.  His pride, prestige, and dignity would be shattered if he were caught fishing on a pier, a boat, or off the rocks.  He would no more fish such places than a dry-fly man would use angleworm.      "The surf man’s field is the soft, clean beach, where the foaming white breakers beat to the rhythm of the sea’s pulse and recharge the waters with effervescing oxygen.  There is no other type of fishing that seems to have such a magnetic drag on its followers.  Such is the lure of the laundered sands."     "…the surf man enjoys dealing with nature single handed.  He dislikes being surrounded with manmade contrivances and helpers to give him bait and gaff his fish.  His ideas are exactly opposite to those of the swordfish angler, who fishes from a swivel chair and has almost everything done for him, even to having the boat chase his hooked gamefish.  The surf angler likes being a lone sea wolf."      I am inclined to agree.      Good fishing,

I would be inclined to agree too, except that I like to catch fish :^) Surf fishing is the most aesthetic way to catch surf species, but the pier has it beat all to hell for results.  Plus, I always get leery of the us vs them attitude implicit in the excerpt abobe; as though one kind of fishing is better than another, or one kind of fisherman is better than another.    The line beginning with "There is no other type of fishing that seems to have such a magnetic drag on it’s followers." discounts too easily the fly fisherman on his stream chasing the mighty salmon or trout,  or the river smallmouth wader casting his jigs and plugs for that one bronzeback of a lifetime, or any of the other scenarios that we pick up over a lifetime of fishing.   I have glided across a remote canadian lake at sunset, trolling for lake trout against a background of tall pines and the calls of loons.   Is that any ‘better’ than battling your first big pike, or straining against a slammer blue in the Carolina surf, or seeing an irridescent dolphin (mahi-mahi) leap out of an azure ocean as it tries to shake your hook?     Don’t get too hung up on that beach,  you can miss a lot of great fishing, and miss meeting some good people too. I can agree with the premise though, it is exhilirating to be standing on a beach on a crisp fall morning, with a rising tide, and casting plugs or bucktails for speckled trout in the trough.  Or wading the trough in the summer, casting a strip of squid for a fat summer flounder.  Or casting spoons, bucktails, or even bare hooks with a strip of cloth for rampaging bluefish as they churn the water to a bloody froth.   The only problem is the dry periods between bites, the inability to get to the fish that are beyond the next bar, and having to haul all your stuff onto the beach. Terry —    DoD# 541                           |  no matter how good it looks."                                         |         ‘Poison’ Ivy Rorschach  

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     In his book "How to Fish the Pacific Coast" author Ray Cannon made the following observation:      "The aristocrat of ocean fisherman is the surf angler.  His pride, prestige, and dignity would be shattered if he were caught fishing on a pier, a boat, or off the rocks.  He would no more fish such places than a dry-fly man would use angleworm.      "The surf man’s field is the soft, clean beach, where the foaming white breakers beat to the rhythm of the sea’s pulse and recharge the waters with effervescing oxygen.  There is no other type of fishing that seems to have such a magnetic drag on its followers.  Such is the lure of the laundered sands."     "…the surf man enjoys dealing with nature single handed.  He dislikes being surrounded with manmade contrivances and helpers to give him bait and gaff his fish.  His ideas are exactly opposite to those of the swordfish angler, who fishes from a swivel chair and has almost everything done for him, even to having the boat chase his hooked gamefish.  The surf angler likes being a lone sea wolf."      I am inclined to agree.      Good fishing,      Mark Rosen

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