Question:

Are there any websites that show step-by-step PICTURES or better yet mpeg movie showing the double haul in action???

http://www.mysportsguru.com/CDA/Article/0,1093,1-1007-1672-2007,00.html is one. — Charlie…

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 5)  There are three forward motions that must be in unison for the double haul.         a)  The rod hand that moves forward, toward the front of the ear.                 1) This is the move that removes line slack behind the caster.         b)  The turn over of the wrist.         c)  The haul that occurs DURING the instant the wrist starts to turn over DURING the simultaneous forward thrust of the fist. In other words, the hand comes forward and as you pass your ear, the thumb starts to turn over, driving the bend of the rod farther into the butt at the same instant the haul is applied which drives all the power farther into the butt which collects more power, bending the rod even more. Here is where a micro-second is required to hold onto the fly line and not releasing it just then.  The haul hand comes down and time is allowed in the fly rod to increase the line speed.  As soon as the tip of the fly rod is about forward, the haul hand releases the fly line . . . and you let her fly! HINT:  Keep the tip higher than you normally do for maximum distance. There is more, but this is as simple as I can make it right now.  One demo is worth a thousand words. But!  Let us all remember that fly lines are really weak rubber bands and stretching a fly line out first is paramount so one can make it as tight as possible before you can really increase fly line speed properly. Hope some of this helps, and yes, there is a difference between the single haul and the double haul.

Are there any websites that show step-by-step PICTURES or better yet mpeg movie showing the double haul in action??? Thanks in advance, dave

Response:

I believe you misspelled pathology. Wolfgang

As with your foot in mouth posts?  A Pathobiology fact noted by many Roffians regarding your off subject howlings? hummmm?  Casting is a pathology quirk, eh? guilty. — Mr.G. http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html     fine bamboo flyrods & blanks

Response:

______  You’re a hard working man Bill and deserve the best in all things.  Plan on meeting me in Montana this year if you can find a ten day slot.  My last stint at the Mayo Clinic and after hours in the operating room, is a wonderful success.  I’m indeed a fortunate man. Again, Happy New Year Bill. George – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi George and the rest of you wonderful ROFFers out there, I am here in Nor Cal in my old boxer shorts with a cup of coffee. I have to go into the shop this morning after a couple of days off. Had a nice Christmas with the family. I hope you are all feeling strong and healthy. I hope 2001 is a great year for you all. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com I have a break here today, in between Morning Presents and a beautiful turkey with all the fixings soon to be presented to many friends and relatives.  It is clear here today, crisp and bright as geese fly up and down the river looking for fresh graze. From the Book of Gink: AXIOMS 1)  There is only one thing that determines how far anyone can cast.  It is called, "Line Speed."  The greater the line speed the farther one can cast. 2)  Fly lines, like rubber bands, stretch.  As long as this slack remains (WITHIN Fly lines) while fly casting, energy is required to remove it.  That which is required to do so do NOT increase the line speed until the stretch is removed in all fly lines.  The tighter the line, the greater the line speed can be applied into a tightly taunt line. 3)  The greatest power that can be applied to a fly line is in the potential energy stored in the butt section of all fly rods.  Getting to that power is the question.  How do we do that? 4)  Fly rods are also fulcrums.  If one half a fly rod, from the tip to the mid section is bent during the forward cast, any applied power beyond these forward power curves is not unlike a long pole under a big rock with the fulcrum moved CLOSER to the weight.  In this case, the butt section! 5)  There are three forward motions that must be in unison for the double haul. a)  The rod hand that moves forward, toward the front of the ear. 1) This is the move that removes line slack behind the caster. b)  The turn over of the wrist. c)  The haul that occurs DURING the instant the wrist starts to turn over DURING the simultaneous forward thrust of the fist. In other words, the hand comes forward and as you pass your ear, the thumb starts to turn over, driving the bend of the rod farther into the butt at the same instant the haul is applied which drives all the power farther into the butt which collects more power, bending the rod even more. Here is where a micro-second is required to hold onto the fly line and not releasing it just then.  The haul hand comes down and time is allowed in the fly rod to increase the line speed.  As soon as the tip of the fly rod is about forward, the haul hand releases the fly line . . . and you let her fly! HINT:  Keep the tip higher than you normally do for maximum distance. There is more, but this is as simple as I can make it right now.  One demo is worth a thousand words. But!  Let us all remember that fly lines are really weak rubber bands and stretching a fly line out first is paramount so one can make it as tight as possible before you can really increase fly line speed properly. Hope some of this helps, and yes, there is a difference between the single haul and the double haul. Merry Christmas. — Mr.G. http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html     fine bamboo flyrods & blanks

– Mr.G. http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html     fine bamboo flyrods & blanks

Response:

Steve is a marvelous teacher and instructor.   I can’t count the number of times he would watch me cast at a show and point out some new quirk I had picked up.

Big deal, we’ve been pointing out your quirks – old and new – for years. Not much of a challenge, either…

Response:

I believe you misspelled pathology. Wolfgang always glad to be of service

Response:

Tony, Don’t forget that loop size also determines how far the cast will go. Ernie "Tony Bishop" wrote <snip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There is only one thing that determines how far anyone can cast, it is called **line acceleration** the rate of change in line speed. Tony Bishop

Response:

Hello, I chanced upon a reference to a scientific paper which might be of interest to those technically inclined: John Robson The Physics of Flycasting American Journal of Physics, 1990 I made a note of it but have not looked for it in a library and read it (yet) so I don’t know if it is relevant to your discussion. Regards, Yuji Sakuma – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – George, I pretty much agree with all you said, except the very first point, I rthink it should read: There is only one thing that determines how far anyone can cast, it is called **line acceleration** the rate of change in line speed. Loading the rod, using haul(s), wrist snaps, etc. evrything you and others have listed, all should contribute to increasing line acceleration during the casting stroke. If the line is not accelerating at the end of the casting stroke and when the rod unloads, the line will immediately begin to fall. I find that once a client understands feeling the weight on the backcast, and then adds the little tweaks on the way to the end of the casting stroke, the quicker they learn to maiximise distance and accuracy. Just by the by, I rarely use a double haul, only occasionally using a single haul, and that is when using 9 weights in the big rivers with big flies or heavy nymphs, or in the saltwater. And leaving my modesty behind I can toss out most of a flyline when I have to, without hauling. I go along with Lefty Kreh who said something along the lines of, hauling and such too often teaches someone to cast their mistakes further. — Tony Bishop  New Zealand http://bishfish.co.nz

Response:

There’s other things than line speed that effect distance, such as aerodynamics. e.g.  It’s easy to cast a number 20 GRHE than a bundel of flank feathers.  You also have differences in  changes in Center of Gravity (tight loop vs. open loop) to name a few.  Also the forward and backward motion of the shoulder plays a big part. Lou – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a break here today, in between Morning Presents and a beautiful turkey with all the fixings soon to be presented to many friends and relatives.  It is clear here today, crisp and bright as geese fly up and down the river looking for fresh graze. From the Book of Gink: AXIOMS 1)  There is only one thing that determines how far anyone can cast.  It is called, "Line Speed."  The greater the line speed the farther one can cast. 2)  Fly lines, like rubber bands, stretch.  As long as this slack remains (WITHIN Fly lines) while fly casting, energy is required to remove it.  That which is required to do so do NOT increase the line speed until the stretch is removed in all fly lines.  The tighter the line, the greater the line speed can be applied into a tightly taunt line. 3)  The greatest power that can be applied to a fly line is in the potential energy stored in the butt section of all fly rods.  Getting to that power is the question.  How do we do that? 4)  Fly rods are also fulcrums.  If one half a fly rod, from the tip to the mid section is bent during the forward cast, any applied power beyond these forward power curves is not unlike a long pole under a big rock with the fulcrum moved CLOSER to the weight.  In this case, the butt section! 5)  There are three forward motions that must be in unison for the double haul. a)  The rod hand that moves forward, toward the front of the ear. 1) This is the move that removes line slack behind the caster. b)  The turn over of the wrist. c)  The haul that occurs DURING the instant the wrist starts to turn over DURING the simultaneous forward thrust of the fist. In other words, the hand comes forward and as you pass your ear, the thumb starts to turn over, driving the bend of the rod farther into the butt at the same instant the haul is applied which drives all the power farther into the butt which collects more power, bending the rod even more. Here is where a micro-second is required to hold onto the fly line and not releasing it just then.  The haul hand comes down and time is allowed in the fly rod to increase the line speed.  As soon as the tip of the fly rod is about forward, the haul hand releases the fly line . . . and you let her fly! HINT:  Keep the tip higher than you normally do for maximum distance. There is more, but this is as simple as I can make it right now.  One demo is worth a thousand words. But!  Let us all remember that fly lines are really weak rubber bands and stretching a fly line out first is paramount so one can make it as tight as possible before you can really increase fly line speed properly. Hope some of this helps, and yes, there is a difference between the single haul and the double haul. Merry Christmas. — Mr.G. http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html     fine bamboo flyrods & blanks

Response:

Hi George and the rest of you wonderful ROFFers out there, I am here in Nor Cal in my old boxer shorts with a cup of coffee. I have to go into the shop this morning after a couple of days off. Had a nice Christmas with the family. I hope you are all feeling strong and healthy. I hope 2001 is a great year for you all. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a break here today, in between Morning Presents and a beautiful turkey with all the fixings soon to be presented to many friends and relatives.  It is clear here today, crisp and bright as geese fly up and down the river looking for fresh graze. From the Book of Gink: AXIOMS 1)  There is only one thing that determines how far anyone can cast.  It is called, "Line Speed."  The greater the line speed the farther one can cast. 2)  Fly lines, like rubber bands, stretch.  As long as this slack remains (WITHIN Fly lines) while fly casting, energy is required to remove it.  That which is required to do so do NOT increase the line speed until the stretch is removed in all fly lines.  The tighter the line, the greater the line speed can be applied into a tightly taunt line. 3)  The greatest power that can be applied to a fly line is in the potential energy stored in the butt section of all fly rods.  Getting to that power is the question.  How do we do that? 4)  Fly rods are also fulcrums.  If one half a fly rod, from the tip to the mid section is bent during the forward cast, any applied power beyond these forward power curves is not unlike a long pole under a big rock with the fulcrum moved CLOSER to the weight.  In this case, the butt section! 5)  There are three forward motions that must be in unison for the double haul. a)  The rod hand that moves forward, toward the front of the ear. 1) This is the move that removes line slack behind the caster. b)  The turn over of the wrist. c)  The haul that occurs DURING the instant the wrist starts to turn over DURING the simultaneous forward thrust of the fist. In other words, the hand comes forward and as you pass your ear, the thumb starts to turn over, driving the bend of the rod farther into the butt at the same instant the haul is applied which drives all the power farther into the butt which collects more power, bending the rod even more. Here is where a micro-second is required to hold onto the fly line and not releasing it just then.  The haul hand comes down and time is allowed in the fly rod to increase the line speed.  As soon as the tip of the fly rod is about forward, the haul hand releases the fly line . . . and you let her fly! HINT:  Keep the tip higher than you normally do for maximum distance. There is more, but this is as simple as I can make it right now.  One demo is worth a thousand words. But!  Let us all remember that fly lines are really weak rubber bands and stretching a fly line out first is paramount so one can make it as tight as possible before you can really increase fly line speed properly. Hope some of this helps, and yes, there is a difference between the single haul and the double haul. Merry Christmas. — Mr.G. http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html     fine bamboo flyrods & blanks

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – George, I pretty much agree with all you said, except the very first point, I rthink it should read: There is only one thing that determines how far anyone can cast, it is called **line acceleration** the rate of change in line speed. Loading the rod, using haul(s), wrist snaps, etc. evrything you and others have listed, all should contribute to increasing line acceleration during the casting stroke. If the line is not accelerating at the end of the casting stroke and when the rod unloads, the line will immediately begin to fall. I find that once a client understands feeling the weight on the backcast, and then adds the little tweaks on the way to the end of the casting stroke, the quicker they learn to maiximise distance and accuracy. Just by the by, I rarely use a double haul, only occasionally using a single haul, and that is when using 9 weights in the big rivers with big flies or heavy nymphs, or in the saltwater. And leaving my modesty behind I can toss out most of a flyline when I have to, without hauling. I go along with Lefty Kreh who said something along the lines of, hauling and such too often teaches someone to cast their mistakes further. — Tony Bishop  New Zealand http://bishfish.co.nz

that has more casting mistakes than any of them and frankly, shouldn’t be teaching casting until he gets his errors corrected by a master. However; Lefty is very popular but it is no excuse to promote incorrect casting techniques.  I like Lefty, but there is a limit to condoning the public’s jaundiced eye.  Much better teachers are probably everyone else that does so in the industry but the best of the lot, in my opinion is D.Swisher.  Another is E. Schwiebert if and when he is available, but the best in the world is Steve Rajif.  This is the man Kreh all fly casting teachers should see on occasion.  Steve is a marvelous teacher and instructor.  I can’t count the number of times he would watch me cast at a show and point out some new quirk I had picked up. By the way, there is going to be a FLY FISHING SHOW IN DENVER this coming January, on the 6th & 7th.  I plan to be there with a booth.   — Mr.G. http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html     fine bamboo flyrods & blanks

Response:

George, I pretty much agree with all you said, except the very first point, I rthink it should read: There is only one thing that determines how far anyone can cast, it is called **line acceleration** the rate of change in line speed. Loading the rod, using haul(s), wrist snaps, etc. evrything you and others have listed, all should contribute to increasing line acceleration during the casting stroke. If the line is not accelerating at the end of the casting stroke and when the rod unloads, the line will immediately begin to fall. I find that once a client understands feeling the weight on the backcast, and then adds the little tweaks on the way to the end of the casting stroke, the quicker they learn to maiximise distance and accuracy. Just by the by, I rarely use a double haul, only occasionally using a single haul, and that is when using 9 weights in the big rivers with big flies or heavy nymphs, or in the saltwater. And leaving my modesty behind I can toss out most of a flyline when I have to, without hauling. I go along with Lefty Kreh who said something along the lines of, hauling and such too often teaches someone to cast their mistakes further. — Tony Bishop  New Zealand http://bishfish.co.nz

Response:

I have a break here today, in between Morning Presents and a beautiful turkey with all the fixings soon to be presented to many friends and relatives.  It is clear here today, crisp and bright as geese fly up and down the river looking for fresh graze. From the Book of Gink: AXIOMS 1)  There is only one thing that determines how far anyone can cast.  It is called, "Line Speed."  The greater the line speed the farther one can cast. 2)  Fly lines, like rubber bands, stretch.  As long as this slack remains (WITHIN Fly lines) while fly casting, energy is required to remove it.  That which is required to do so do NOT increase the line speed until the stretch is removed in all fly lines.  The tighter the line, the greater the line speed can be applied into a tightly taunt line. 3)  The greatest power that can be applied to a fly line is in the potential energy stored in the butt section of all fly rods.  Getting to that power is the question.  How do we do that? 4)  Fly rods are also fulcrums.  If one half a fly rod, from the tip to the mid section is bent during the forward cast, any applied power beyond these forward power curves is not unlike a long pole under a big rock with the fulcrum moved CLOSER to the weight.  In this case, the butt section! 5)  There are three forward motions that must be in unison for the double haul.         a)  The rod hand that moves forward, toward the front of the ear.                 1) This is the move that removes line slack behind the caster.         b)  The turn over of the wrist.         c)  The haul that occurs DURING the instant the wrist starts to turn over DURING the simultaneous forward thrust of the fist.   In other words, the hand comes forward and as you pass your ear, the thumb starts to turn over, driving the bend of the rod farther into the butt at the same instant the haul is applied which drives all the power farther into the butt which collects more power, bending the rod even more. Here is where a micro-second is required to hold onto the fly line and not releasing it just then.  The haul hand comes down and time is allowed in the fly rod to increase the line speed.  As soon as the tip of the fly rod is about forward, the haul hand releases the fly line . . . and you let her fly! HINT:  Keep the tip higher than you normally do for maximum distance. There is more, but this is as simple as I can make it right now.  One demo is worth a thousand words. But!  Let us all remember that fly lines are really weak rubber bands and stretching a fly line out first is paramount so one can make it as tight as possible before you can really increase fly line speed properly. Hope some of this helps, and yes, there is a difference between the single haul and the double haul. Merry Christmas. — Mr.G. http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html     fine bamboo flyrods & blanks

Response:

Question:

I live in Tucson – what can I say – it’s beautiful today, just like every other day.

Annis-MM – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Everyone all good thoughts,and hope your Sunday is as great as mine has been,so far…

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know about where others are,but the weather here is just fantastic!  Been beautiful up in Wisconsin. Temperatures are still holding in the upper 40’s/50’s. We’ve even seen 70’s the past few weeks. Pretty nice for November up here.  My only "gripe" is I put the boat away back in October…. "My point being that when you argue with animal rights activist about "poor starving children" you might just as well bring up aliens from Mars. As they probably know more about that than being poor, starving or children." Verne Dale Anderson

We never put the boats away… Sea duckin and all ya know ; ) Paulette~ —  A dogs life is too short…    Their only fault really… Before you buy.

Response:

We never put the boats away… Sea duckin and all ya know ; )

 I am turning green w/envy….  Since I don’t have a heated garage, and since it can get below zero fast this time of year, smart money is to winterize it in late October…. "My point being that when you argue with animal rights activist about "poor starving children" you might just as well bring up aliens from Mars. As they probably know more about that than being poor, starving or children." Verne Dale Anderson  

Response:

We never put the boats away… Sea duckin and all ya know ; )  I am turning green w/envy….

heehee I know ; )  Since I don’t have a heated garage, and since it can get below zero fast this time of year, smart money is to winterize it in late October….

Well the harbour hasn’t froze up since 77,and we are a tough old bunch down here. It’s a lot warmer here, although the cold damp ocean air can be bone chilling sometimes. Paulette~ "My point being that when you argue with animal rights activist about "poor starving children" you might just as well bring up aliens from Mars. As they probably know more about that than being poor, starving or children." Verne Dale Anderson

–  A dogs life is too short…    Their only fault really… Before you buy.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Guys~ I haven’t been posting much,as just have been out living the sporting life. : ) I don’t know about where others are,but the weather here is just fantastic! This morning got into the sailing dory,did a bit of fishing (no luck) and a lot of scalloping (mucho luck) and then two of the brown dogs,hubby ad myself,sailed into ‘Fishmonger’s" for breakfast. Everyone was taking pics of Ati and Keeper just being "perfectly beautiful" waiting at the drawbridge for us to return. It really was a classic photo.Two Chessies in a 19th Century Lowell Dory.  In fact I think I am going to do the Christmas pics this year of them all in the ‘Polly N" with them all decorated up. : ) Anyway, after a super breakfast of breakfast burritos,and great coffee, (yes, this place is a favourite) we went back to the boat,and went fly fishing for stripers. Guess what??? Got a HUGE keeper,and Keeper who is quite the "FISHERDOG",went out to retrieve it! So it’s striper for dinner,with swiss chard from the garden and stuffed broiled tomatoes,and rice pilaf… Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Everyone all good thoughts,and hope your Sunday is as great as mine has been,so far… Woof! Paulette~ A dogs life is too short…    Their only fault,really…

OK, after reading your post, I have decided I hate you… *just kidding* But, your did inspire me and my wife to take some time out and go for a wonderful walk around the woods by my house. All of the leaves are pretty much gone, but it was still great, just to get out and enjoy the outdoors, even if just for a few hours. — "Life is too short, for everyone to see things my way" Before you buy.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Guys~ I haven’t been posting much,as just have been out living the sporting life. : ) I don’t know about where others are,but the weather here is just fantastic! This morning got into the sailing dory,did a bit of fishing (no luck) and a lot of scalloping (mucho luck) and then two of the brown dogs,hubby ad myself,sailed into ‘Fishmonger’s" for breakfast. Everyone was taking pics of Ati and Keeper just being "perfectly beautiful" waiting at the drawbridge for us to return. It really was a classic photo.Two Chessies in a 19th Century Lowell Dory.  In fact I think I am going to do the Christmas pics this year of them all in the ‘Polly N" with them all decorated up. : ) Anyway, after a super breakfast of breakfast burritos,and great coffee, (yes, this place is a favourite) we went back to the boat,and went fly fishing for stripers. Guess what??? Got a HUGE keeper,and Keeper who is quite the "FISHERDOG",went out to retrieve it! So it’s striper for dinner,with swiss chard from the garden and stuffed broiled tomatoes,and rice pilaf… Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Everyone all good thoughts,and hope your Sunday is as great as mine has been,so far… Woof! Paulette~ A dogs life is too short…    Their only fault,really… OK, after reading your post, I have decided I hate you…

THat’s okay you can’t get evryone to like you huh,but you can get them to respect you. Although most MEN like me ; ) woman too… *just kidding* But, your did inspire me and my wife to take some time out and go for a wonderful walk around the woods by my house.

Good I like to "inspire" All of the leaves are pretty much gone,

Oh boy haven’t raked much yet,as the leaves are still on the trees,but the place is LEAF LANE,heehee I love shuffling through the leaves,and making a pile and falling down in them. Having a small bonfire and making "s’mores". Anyone like them like I do?  but it was still great, just to get out and enjoy the outdoors, even if just for a few hours.

Yes, I am an outdoor girl, especially a water one. I’m a pisces : ) Hubby is even more the outdoorsman. His nickname is "Rugged Bear" ; ) — "Life is too short, for everyone to see things my way"

I always have to have things my way. I’m like Papa Hemingway when asked " Why does it always have to be your way?" He replied "Because I like it that way" : ) Me too… Paulette~ Before you buy.

–  A dogs life is too short…    Their only fault really… Before you buy.

Response:

I don’t know about where others are,but the weather here is just fantastic! Been beautiful up in Wisconsin. Temperatures are still holding in the upper 40’s/50’s. We’ve even seen 70’s the past few weeks. Pretty nice for November up here.

Lovely here as well, temps in the +20s, no wind, and it hasn’t quit snowing since yesterday (maybe 6 inches or so since yesterday a.m.) and expected to snow for another day or two. Lots of fluff, very pretty, and I’m taking the dogs out for a snowbath later. (best way to get a dog clean during winter, toss favorite toy into a powdery snowdrift 2-3 times… we don’t have wet snow, so it gets the coat clean) My only "gripe" is I put the boat away back in October….

Ours went into the garage back in late Sept. Will be there until about Apr/May I imagine. Cat in Alaska

Response:

I don’t know about where others are,but the weather here is just fantastic!

 Been beautiful up in Wisconsin. Temperatures are still holding in the upper 40’s/50’s. We’ve even seen 70’s the past few weeks. Pretty nice for November up here.  My only "gripe" is I put the boat away back in October…. "My point being that when you argue with animal rights activist about "poor starving children" you might just as well bring up aliens from Mars. As they probably know more about that than being poor, starving or children." Verne Dale Anderson  

Response:

I don’t know about where others are,but the weather here is just fantastic!

    Well, Maryland (at least the Baltimore area), is having *warm* weather… a little rain last night, a misty moisty morning,  with the fog burned off to blue skies and sunshine this afternoon. We’re heading out to the lake, so the dogs can run and maybe swim, in a little bit… it’s actually warm enough for me to ditch my shoes today, hooray! (Point of note: that’s anywhere above about 40 degrees, for me. <g) So it’s striper for dinner,with swiss chard from the garden and stuffed broiled tomatoes,and rice pilaf… Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

   Sounds good….  you’re giving me ideas for dinner! Though I can’t compete with fresh-caught fish… <G – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Everyone all good thoughts,and hope your Sunday is as great as mine has been,so far…

Response:

Hi Guys~ I haven’t been posting much,as just have been out living the sporting life. : ) I don’t know about where others are,but the weather here is just fantastic! This morning got into the sailing dory,did a bit of fishing (no luck) and a lot of scalloping (mucho luck) and then two of the brown dogs,hubby ad myself,sailed into ‘Fishmonger’s" for breakfast. Everyone was taking pics of Ati and Keeper just being "perfectly beautiful" waiting at the drawbridge for us to return. It really was a classic photo.Two Chessies in a 19th Century Lowell Dory.  In fact I think I am going to do the Christmas pics this year of them all in the ‘Polly N" with them all decorated up. : ) Anyway, after a super breakfast of breakfast burritos,and great coffee, (yes, this place is a favourite) we went back to the boat,and went fly fishing for stripers. Guess what??? Got a HUGE keeper,and Keeper who is quite the "FISHERDOG",went out to retrieve it! So it’s striper for dinner,with swiss chard from the garden and stuffed broiled tomatoes,and rice pilaf… Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Everyone all good thoughts,and hope your Sunday is as great as mine has been,so far… Woof! Paulette~ A dogs life is too short…    Their only fault,really…

Response:

Question:

Hello, I will have occassion to travel to Montana in September or October of this year.   can anyone suggest spots to flyfish – is that a reasonable time of ear to fish in those places? any info would be helpful: please email to either: or thanks, earl "So having said, a while he stood, expecting  Their universal shout and high applause  To fill his ear; when, contrary, he hears,  On all sides from innumerable tongues  A dismal universal hiss, the sound  Of public scorn."                 Paradise Lost. Book 10 (lines 504 – 509)                           John Milton

Response:

The Mo. below Wolf Creek would be a good place to fish. Also walking in to the ponds in the Pintlars or Pioneers would also be fun. You would need to be mindful of snow.

Response:

Try the Big Hole in September between Wisdom and Wise River.  Accessible and pretty good fishing.

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Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Given a limited budget (~$1000 max) and no roof rack or trailer, what type of inflatable craft would you recommend for fly fishing  on lakes and rivers in in the Western U.S.? I’ve looked at float tubes and other fly fishing-specific boats, but they’re too specialized and carry only one passenger.  I’m wondering about peoples’ experiences with inflatable canoes/kayaks (see the SOAR ad in this NG!) or rafts, which can carry maybe 2 people and used on Class 3 water. How easy is it to cast from a kayak or raft? Thanks Steve Whittaker

Hi Steve, I think I would look for a used 10′-14′ raft with a rowing frame. A friend just got a used 14′Avon with a steel rowing frame for $500. I have fished in one of these rafts with a guide, Herb Burton, out of Lewiston, California. I really liked it. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

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How easy is it to cast from a kayak or raft?

Very difficult, i.e. any energy transmitted from the rod arm through your feet or seat will move any keelless boat, and hardly anyone is so skilful as to transmit no such energy. The same thing happens in a float tube (I suppose) but your finned feet are available to keep station.  Alone in any boat, you need your hands both to keep station and to fish, and it’s hard to do both at once.  This is why I abandoned rubber boats for keeled canoes (even though these are more vulnerable to wind.) — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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Get a Bucks Bag "Bronco"

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Given a limited budget (~$1000 max) and no roof rack or trailer, what type of inflatable craft would you recommend for fly fishing  on lakes and rivers in in the Western U.S.? I’ve looked at float tubes and other fly fishing-specific boats, but they’re too specialized and carry only one passenger.  I’m wondering about peoples’ experiences with inflatable canoes/kayaks (see the SOAR ad in this NG!) or rafts, which can carry maybe 2 people and used on Class 3 water. How easy is it to cast from a kayak or raft? Thanks Steve Whittaker Hi Steve, I think I would look for a used 10′-14′ raft with a rowing frame. A friend just got a used 14′Avon with a steel rowing frame for $500. I have fished in one of these rafts with a guide, Herb Burton, out of Lewiston, California. I really liked it. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

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Given a limited budget (~$1000 max) and no roof rack or trailer, what type of inflatable craft would you recommend for fly fishing  on lakes and rivers in in the Western U.S.? I’ve looked at float tubes and other fly fishing-specific boats, but they’re too specialized and carry only one passenger.  I’m wondering about peoples’ experiences with inflatable canoes/kayaks (see the SOAR ad in this NG!) or rafts, which can carry maybe 2 people and used on Class 3 water. How easy is it to cast from a kayak or raft? Thanks Steve Whittaker

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Question:

Vinsel) writes: This brings up the question for the cane rod builders: what was the impregnating that was popular on many rods in the seventies – Orvis, Leonard, Powell…  Was that a pressurized epoxy system?  Why do so few makers do this today?  I would expect that it takes large and expensive equipment and would also stiffen the action of the rod. Anyone with more info?

The impregnation system that Orvis used and still uses is a phenolic resin.  Originally it was bakelite, in fact some of the rods from 1946 said "Bakelite Impregnated".  It’s changed a little since then, but not much.   Wes Jordan was the first rod maker to successfully apply impregnation to bamboo rods in 1946.  It drove him nuts during World War II that Orvis could make impregnated bamboo ski poles for the ski troops for the war effort that were impervious to heat and moisture and yet could not produce a bamboo rod with predictable action with the same process.  He finally figured out that by flaming the rod to remove most of the moisture content, building the rod completely and by cooking it at precisely controlled temperatures in the phenolic resin for a couple of days he could impregnate the rod with the resin and achieve predictable results. Then, to demonstrate that the impregnated rod was impervious to weather and for advertisement purposes, he would freeze a rod in a 50 lb. block of ice and then pour boiling water over the ice until the it melted away from the rod.  In 1946 there were no varnishes that could withstand this treatment. If the impregnation process was improperly done it could make the rod heavy and "loggy".  Properly done, the impregnation goes into the cane a few thousandths of an inch and replaces the residual moisuture usually found in the power fibers.The heat curing process (originally flamed, now done with a heat box) makes the rod stiffer and allows it to be impregnated with the resin.  Without the heat curing process, there is too much moisture in the bamboo to impregnate the rod successfully. Impregnating the rod is an extra step and although it eliminates the varnishing process, it is more time consuming than varnishing and  If you don’t control the heat of the phenolic resin precisely, you ruin the rod. Action of the rod is more dependant on the design of the rod not the impregnation of it.  If you pick up an Orvis "Wes Jordan era" rod it will be almost mahogany in color from the flaming and faster in action than the rods currently produced.  This is due in large part to the preference of the rod designer Wes Jordan.  Howard Steare, who worked with Wes and took over rod production after Wes Jordan retired, preferred a higher moisture content in the bamboo which resulted in a slower action.  Howard retired a couple of years ago and for the first time in many years Orvis is producing 3 new bamboo rods for 1997 with reportedly crisper and quicker actions.  I’ll be curious to get them in my hands. You can find some more info on this at the Orvis web site (www.orvis.com) under the "timeline" part of the Orvis story section.  You can jump right to it at the following url "http://www.alloutdoors.com/orvis/Story/Impregbamb.html"  There is also a book out about Wes Jordan from Centennial Press that has a lot more info.                                         Hope this helps,                                                Dan Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

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[stuff deleted] This brings up the question for the cane rod builders: what was the impregnating that was popular on many rods in the seventies – Orvis, Leonard, Powell…  Was that a pressurized epoxy system?  Why do so few makers do this today? Impregnating the rod is a way a few manufacturers finish their rods, but in general, impregnation slows down the action of a rod. The air spaces get filled with epoxy, adding to the weight, thus slowing down the action. There is a saying that Orvis makes their rods to last, not to cast.

Well, almost.  I worked for Leonard in the late 70s.  The Duracane impregnated rod blanks were made for Leonard to their specs in England. The stuff used was bakelite, if I remember correctly.  I’m pretty sure it wasn’t epoxy.  As for weight, the impregnated rods were pretty close to the weight of the varnished rods, they just didn’t have as complex tapers, as thin tips, or as fancy reelseats, although they did have silk wraps, very nice wood reelseats, and the same nickel- silver ferrules.  I always sort of wished I had bought a Duracane 7′ 4 wt. since they cast beautifully.  In fact, the entire Duracane line was very, very nice. As for impregnation, it only soaks in a few thousands of an inch, hardly enough to affect the action in any really meaningful way. As for Orvis, if you don’t like the way their rods cast, it’s because of the design, not because of the impregnating.  Orvis rods have very slow tapers.  This is because that’s how they want them.  It would take a little more work to make a rod with a very thin tip, but in general, Orvis cane rods have slow actions because that’s how they were designed. Barry Smith

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I don’t think epoxy varnish is correct. I am not familiar with epoxy varnish but in general epoxies are two-part systems that you mix, and when they solidify they are very difficult to remove. Most epoxies are clouded and weakened by UV light so I don’t think this is right for an overall coating, unless you were going to varnish over the epoxy (getting pretty thick by now…)

You are right, most epoxies are unsuitable for coating, although as coating for guide wraps they work fine. I think you want a marine-grade spar varnish, which would be phenolic or polyurethane based, with a UV inhibitor.  That way you can remove it with alcohol and steel wool to restore every twenty years or so.

There are several ways to finish a cane rod. Tung oil, spar varnish, or polyurethane varnish can be used. Polyurethane is probably the most resistant to water, solvents, weather, etc., but the hardest to refinish if it ever becomes neccesary to do so. About the only way to remove polyurethane is to sand it off. This brings up the question for the cane rod builders: what was the impregnating that was popular on many rods in the seventies – Orvis, Leonard, Powell…  Was that a pressurized epoxy system?  Why do so few makers do this today?  I would expect that it takes large and expensive equipment and would also stiffen the action of the rod. Anyone with more info?

Impregnating the rod is a way a few manufacturers finish their rods, but in general, impregnation slows down the action of a rod. The air spaces get filled with epoxy, adding to the weight, thus slowing down the action. There is a saying that Orvis makes their rods to last, not to cast. Darryl Hayashida

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… you can improve the stick’s water resistance by a couple of thin coats of epoxy varnish…

I don’t think epoxy varnish is correct. I am not familiar with epoxy varnish but in general epoxies are two-part systems that you mix, and when they solidify they are very difficult to remove. Most epoxies are clouded and weakened by UV light so I don’t think this is right for an overall coating, unless you were going to varnish over the epoxy (getting pretty thick by now…) I think you want a marine-grade spar varnish, which would be phenolic or polyurethane based, with a UV inhibitor.  That way you can remove it with alcohol and steel wool to restore every twenty years or so. This brings up the question for the cane rod builders: what was the impregnating that was popular on many rods in the seventies – Orvis, Leonard, Powell…  Was that a pressurized epoxy system?  Why do so few makers do this today?  I would expect that it takes large and expensive equipment and would also stiffen the action of the rod. Anyone with more info? Mark Vinsel http://www.lanminds.com/local/vinnie/gallery.html

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I found an old cane rod that hasn’t much care recently.  One wrap is starting to loosen.  What solution does one use on the wraps to hold them and what does one put on the cane to waterproof it? Thanks

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I found an old cane rod that hasn’t much care recently.  One wrap is starting to loosen.  What solution does one use on the wraps to hold them and what does one put on the cane to waterproof it?

Don’t put adhesives on loose wrap.  Carefully cut the old whipping off and redo it afresh.  (If one has already loosened, another is going to soon, and every handy angler needs to know how to make a neat whipping.  It’s not difficult.) If you know this is a good stick, you might as well refinish it throughout, whipping on new (rustproof) guides correctly spaced and sized.  If you remove everything except ferrules and handle, you can improve the stick’s water resistance by a couple of thin coats of epoxy varnish, before you reattach guides (at least 2 weeks later, to be sure the varnish is totally dry.) — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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Question:

Just  learning and can use a saltwater pond that has lots of mullet to practice.  Any suggestion as to  flys?

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You’re talking target practice here.  Mullet are vegetarians.  Sometimes they can be induced to take a fly with chumming.  (bread or crumbs.)  Try small patterns. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just  learning and can use a saltwater pond that has lots of mullet to practice.  Any suggestion as to  flys?

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Just  learning and can use a saltwater pond that has lots of mullet to practice.  Any suggestion as to  flys?

In the U.K. during the summer and autumn most harbours and estuaries are invaded by the grey mullet. They love green weed which they don’t eat but suck out the small crustaceans etc that live in the weed. They can therefore be lured by a fly that is composed of only green peacock herl. The dressing is simple and easy to tie. Hook size is 10-12. First tie in 3-4 green peacock herls to form a tail. Next tie in 3 herls and wrap round the hook to form a body.Then tie 6-8 herls in to form a hackle. The effect is to look like a small piece of green weed. Hope this is of some use. John — John Buchanan

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Yeah-   Get a #0 fly– the pattern is immaterial– and retrieve it as fast as you can. If the mullet are thick enough, you can snag them.      Those beasts eat no fish or bugs, just plant matter.

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Just  learning and can use a saltwater pond that has lots of mullet to practice.  Any suggestion as to  flys?

Never fished for mullet with hook and line, always cast netted. I have seen folks with cane poles fishing for them(as I recall). I think you could chum them with some kind of dough and then use a fly resembling that. I am not sure how this will relate to other species you will fish for. It would be more exciting to reel a fish in but unlike the accuracy needed for bone fish for instance. This is just my opinion based on my limited knowledge of the facts you presented. Good Luck, Joe Webb Atlanta Mac User Group (AMUG)

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Question:

i am planning a trip to northern minnesota sometime in june or july and would greatly appreciate information re: fly fishing for northern pike, muskies or any of the other exotic species that inhabit the lakes in the area.  i am bored with trout.  i am from washington state and would be happy to exchange info and tips with some minnesota person interested in visiting my part of the world.

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i am planning a trip to northern minnesota sometime in june or july and would greatly appreciate information re: fly fishing for northern pike, muskies or any of the other exotic species that inhabit the lakes in the area.  i am bored with trout.  i am from washington state and would be happy to exchange info and tips with some minnesota person interested in visiting my part of the world.

Well, I flyfished _hard_ for a week in northern Minnesota in August in a lake that is absolutely loaded with pike and caught not a one. It was very saddening. (Yes, I know what I’m doing and used all the best flies and techniques for pike!) The problem, from what I learned, is that pike hold in deep, cooler water in summer.  It’s hard to get down to them with a fly rod, even with a full sinking line (I tried one). Between June and July, I’d go in early June.  You might have better luck than I did! On the other hand, I had success catching some nice yellow perch and smallmouth.  My advice: go planning to fish for smallmouth and you’ll be happy.  Go in spring or fall and you’ll catch pike. Scott in DC

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I am going to be in Islamorada, FL for part of the week of November 20 and am interested in spending a day fishing the flats.  Can anyone recommend a good-quality guide who doesn’t charge a king’s ransom? MZ

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Stop at Bonefish Bob’s shop.  He is most helpful with questions.  Best ? guide- Jim Lopez phone at Marathon.  Expensive, tho.  Ask Bob. Regards, CLiff

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Johnson’s out of Baldwin, MI used to guide down there. I don’t know if they still do but they would be able to offer someone’s name.

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I just went bone fishing with Capt. Steve Impallomeni (305) 292-9837 . and had a wonderful day with him!  I also would suggest dealing with Capt. Jeffrey Cardenas of The Saltwater Angler (800) 223-1629 for bookings and information … they were the best help and friendliest people I dealt with in Florida! KStJ

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   My girlfriend (an elementary school teacher) just showed me a wonderful childrens’ book.  It’s called         A River Dream, by Allen Say.    In the book, a little boy in bed at home receives a gift from his uncle: a flybox.  When he opens the flybox, a bunch of live mayflies fly out and disappear out his bedroom window.  He looks out the window, and where once was an ordinary street scene he sees a beautiful mountain stream with a boat.    The little boy gets in the boat and heads downstream, where he encounters his uncle out flyfishing.  The uncle (who practices catch and release, by the way) teaches the little boy to fish, which of course results in the little boy catching a lunker of a rainbow.    The book (as with all Allen Say books) is beautifully illustrated, and the story is well-written.  I highly recommend it for adults and your kids alike!          - Scott —         Scott Wilkinson         Montgomery County, Maryland

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:    My girlfriend (an elementary school teacher) just showed me a : wonderful childrens’ book.  It’s called :       A River Dream, by Allen Say. : the story is well-written.  I highly recommend it for adults and your kids alike! Could you provide the publisher’s name and an ISBN? — Newfoundland and Labrador Science  and Technology Advisory Council                Tel     (709) 738-3400 114 Empire Ave., St. John’s, NF    A1B 1C7      Fax     (709) 738-3276

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I dont mean to burst your bubble but you mention three items together that are antonyms of alaska.  Anywhere theres fish theres people.  It’s expencive.  And for most of Alaska dry flyfish is not the perfered method (usualy egg patterns of attractors) although I almost soley dryflied there all summer. But I caught more Grayling than trout and less than my buddies with egg pat. Ive guided there for the past two summers and have seen people try to take the economy route and be unhappy.         Two suggestions Rust’s flying service about $125 a day for guided         day fishing.  Rust is quite dependable.  my next and stronger suggustion         is goto or call McFee’s flyshop in Anchorage and ask for Dennis (owner)         tell him Kyle from Wilderness Place lodge sent you and he’ll give you the scoop.  Good Luck any questions feel free to contact me directly.         University of Illinois

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I dont mean to burst your bubble but you mention three items together  that are antonyms of alaska.  Anywhere theres fish theres people.  It’s expencive.  And for most of Alaska dry flyfish is not the perfered method (usualy egg  patterns of attractors) although I almost soley dryflied there all summer.  But I caught more Grayling than trout and less than my buddies with egg pat.  Ive guided there for the past two summers and have seen people try to take  the economy route and be unhappy.    Two suggestions Rust’s flying service about $125 a day for guided    day fishing.  Rust is quite dependable.  my next and stronger suggustion    is goto or call McFee’s flyshop in Anchorage and ask for Dennis (owner)    tell him Kyle from Wilderness Place lodge sent you and he’ll give you the scoop.  Good Luck any questions feel free to contact me directly.    University of Illinois

I agree that egg patterns are the best bet, but dry fly fishing in Alaska can be very rewarding.  The reason people don’t catch more fish on drys is because they just don’t try them enough.   They simply assume they will be ineffective.  Alaska is not devoid of insect life, it just takes some exploring and investigating to figure out what the fish are taking.  If you go to Alaska to catch salmon, sure, dry flies are going to be ineffective.  But, if you fish for rainbows and grayling, and you really should, then drys can be a blast!  By the way, that should be McAfee’s Fly Shop, not McFee’s.  Have fun, and catch and release!  Good fishing. -Steve  

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jay) writes:

You might want to consider flying into King Salmon on Alaska Airlines and hook up with an outfitter there(sorry no names :I stayed at a flyout camp). An outfitter can set you up to float the American River, which is an oustanding remote dryfly river. It will take about 4-5 days to float the river to the mouth on Bristol Bay. Great big country and has a major bear problem( last year had major league charge from a big male who was protecting his fresh moose calf kill) .Don’t go alone! The flys I used were: Royal Wulff 12,14                                Yellow Humpy 12,14,16                                Gray Caddis-various                                 Royal Stimulator 12,14 The rainbows liked the Royal ties and the Grayling liked the the more subdued colors Adams etc.You should catch at least 100+ per day! (you must release all fish in the Bristol Bay watershed) FRANK

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I am planning to try fishing in Alaska this coming june and am interested in dry fly fishing in  fairly quiet places. I would like to do this fairly inexpensively. I have about 10 days to spend. Any help would be appreciated. Keep a tight line.

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I am planning to try fishing in Alaska this coming june and am interested in dry fly fishing in  fairly quiet places. I would like to do this fairly inexpensively. I have about 10 days to spend. Any help would be appreciated. Keep a tight line.

There are ways to fish Alaska fairly inexpensively after you get here. The biggest expense is the cost of an airline ticket.  Once here, the USFS has cabins they rent for $25/night on some excellent fishing systems.   What species are you specifically interested in?  Southeast Alaska has cutthroat trout, steelhead, rainbow fishing in June.  The Bristol Bay area is known for its outstanding rainbow fishing. Let me know some specifics on what your interested in and we have informational leaflets that I can send to help you out. Doug Jones

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