Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing » Busted Three Forks Rod
This one looks nice, but I have not tried it yet; http://www.gerberblades.com/gerberlegendaryblades.html?07572 As I said, I use mine mainly for work. It has seen very heavy usage, and is still as good as new. The first couple of "leathermans" I tried, were nowhere near as robust. One thing I would advise anybody buying such a tool, is to buy a decent leather sheath for it. The cordura pouches don
Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing » Drag Free Drift
BTW: why don’t trout eat those skittery little black bugs that hang out near shore and in eddies? I read somewhere that they emit a mild toxin into the water which repels the fish. They hang out in groups because then there is a higher concentration of the toxin, providing a higher level of safety.
Oh, she’s talking about water striders! I thought she was talking about midges. Kevin’s right. Water striders are toxic. I remember last year at the San Juan Clave there were lots of midges in the eddies and other slackwater, but the fish were ignoring them. I wondered why, and still do. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/
BTW: why don’t trout eat those skittery little black bugs that hang out near shore and in eddies? I read somewhere that they emit a mild toxin into the water which repels the fish. They hang out in groups because then there is a higher concentration of the toxin, providing a higher level of safety.
Thank you. That sounds right. I know they’re not fast, as I’ve always been easily able to hand catch one. — rbc: vixen Fairly harmless remove invalid or hit reply to email. Though I’m very slow to respond. http://www.visi.com/~cyli
BTW: why don’t trout eat those skittery little black bugs that hang out near shore and in eddies?
I understood that these were just not a favorite food of trout…being that they’re as hard as peanuts. In NJ, those and skating spiders are not eaten by trout in any waters that I know of.
One of the first hurdles a beginer needs to clear is to learn how to present a fly on a dead drift. It’s a very important skill but how often is it necessary or even desirable?
I’m loving trying to do it for drys or surface lures, but I can’t bring myself to feel that anything but a really dead bug will drift fairly freely, and even that bug will bounce into and off of things, including the bottom if using an under surface fly / lure. BTW: why don’t trout eat those skittery little black bugs that hang out near shore and in eddies? I don’t see them much in water where other varieties of decent sized game fish are around or else they stay so shallow that nothing big can get them. Is it the Monarch butterfly sort of thing in the water? — rbc: vixen Fairly harmless remove invalid or hit reply to email. Though I’m very slow to respond. http://www.visi.com/~cyli
One of the first hurdles a beginer needs to clear is to learn how to present a fly on a dead drift. It’s a very important skill but how often is it necessary or even desirable? I’m loving trying to do it for drys or surface lures, but I can’t bring myself to feel that anything but a really dead bug will drift fairly freely, and even that bug will bounce into and off of things, including the bottom if using an under surface fly / lure.
I kind of hate to post this, because I’m such a "fucking putz" at presenting nymphs compared to people like Willi and Bruce, but here’s my understanding of the theory. There’s something called the "turnover point." When you cast your nymph out, in the normal scheme of things, you should try to get your indicator upstream of the nymph. The current on the surface carries the indicator downstream faster than the deep-drifting nymph. Upstream mends can help, but you risk pulling the fly right out of the trouts’ mouths. There is a point — the "turnover" point — when the nymph is just below the indicator. This is when it’s doing its best rendition of a "dead drift." If you know where the fish are, try to make that the turnover point. BTW: why don’t trout eat those skittery little black bugs that hang out near shore and in eddies? I don’t see them much in water where other varieties of decent sized game fish are around or else they stay so shallow that nothing big can get them. Is it the Monarch butterfly sort of thing in the water?
Good question. I think it’s because trout are wary. They don’t want to expose themselves to predators in shallow water when there’s plenty of stuff to eat in safer places. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/
There is a point — the "turnover" point — when the nymph is just below the indicator. This is when it’s doing its best rendition of a "dead drift." If you know where the fish are, try to make that the turnover
point. According to Borger, the indicator is more of a drift indicator than strike indicator. He says if your indicator is drifting as fast as the surface current and your nymph is near the bottom, your nymph is probably dragging. A split shot will help slow it down. I suppose this would be past the "turnover point" you describe.
According to Borger, the indicator is more of a drift indicator than strike indicator. He says if your indicator is drifting as fast as the surface current and your nymph is near the bottom, your nymph is probably dragging. A split shot will help slow it down. I suppose this would be past the "turnover point" you describe.
Even using the most thought out or "best" combination of weight, leader length etc. there will usually only be a small portion of your drift where the fly is truly approaching a dragfree drift. Like Steve said, you want to try and have this "good" part of the drift in the area that you think holds fish. The deeper the water, overall, the more pronounced this is. You can get more instances of a dragfree drift through mending, but because of the varied currents, it impossible to get a dragfree drift throughout the drift. It’s often difficult to get a dragfree drift with a dry fly. With a dry you can see what’s going on and with a dry, you’re essentially only dealing with a flat plane or two dimensions. With a sunken nymph, in most situations, you have to make inferences about what’s going on with your fly and you’re dealing with three dimensions. MUCH more difficult but fortunately for us, I think the fish are more tolerant of drag with a nymph. Willi
BTW: why don’t trout eat those skittery little black bugs that hang out near shore and in eddies?
Probably because they are too difficult for the trout to catch. They would experience a net loss in calories because of the energy expended in trying to catch them. Game fish are instinctively aware of the energy/food value relationship, and tend to feed accordingly. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"
With a sunken nymph, in most situations, you have to make inferences about what’s going on with your fly and you’re dealing with three dimensions. MUCH more difficult but fortunately for us, I think the fish are more tolerant of drag with a nymph.
and i suspect that this is because many of the insects we are attempting to imitate with nymphs are alive, and move upwards and from side to side as they attempt to reach the surface, as opposed to the nearly motionless float of duns and spinners. wayno (lifelong reader of field&stream)
BTW: why don’t trout eat those skittery little black bugs that hang out near shore and in eddies?
I read somewhere that they emit a mild toxin into the water which repels the fish. They hang out in groups because then there is a higher concentration of the toxin, providing a higher level of safety. Kevin — Check out the Pike Clave Website: <http://www.misu.nodak.edu/~vang/PikeClave/
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What percentage of fish do you take during a "dragfree" drift for: Dries 95% Nymphs 95% Wets 40% Streamers 10% Your percentage for nymphs is surprising to me. Do you usually let them swing across at the end of the dragfree part of the drift? I take many fish on nymphs, especially BH PTs, on the rising part of the swing–almost as many as when I fish traditional wets (soft hackles, etc.) this way.
What I really meant to say was, 95% of the time I nymph I *really* try for a dead drift. The other 5% of the time is when I’m moving (stumbling) upstream, dragging the thing behind me, and some inconsiderate trout bites it.
Willi asks: What percentage of fish do you take during a "dragfree" drift for:
Dries (over 90) Nymphs ( not sure, probably most; 75?) Wets (less than 10) Streamers (less than 5) — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyoming
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What percentage of fish do you take during a "dragfree" drift for: Dries Nymphs Wets Streamers My estimates: Dries: 90 Nymphs: 80 Wets: 50 Streamers: 20
Dries: definitely in the 90+% range during most mayfly hatches. During stonefly hatches, however, or even when I fish a hopper during terrestrial season, I twitch my fly when it’s drifting. Granted, I attempt for it to be subtle, and only a movement every couple of feet or so, but a lot of the hits come right at the twitch. Nymphs: I’d like to think that ALL my fish hit during drag free drift but I think that’s impossible to do all the time. I’d rank it there around 75%. Wets: When I fish them, which isn’t that often, they are moving for sure. 25%. Streamers: Practically all my fish come during the strip or the swing. I do pick up fish occasionally during a drag-free drift but I don’t fish a streamer that often that way. 10% — Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com
Dries: definitely in the 90+% range during most mayfly hatches. During stonefly hatches, however, or even when I fish a hopper during terrestrial season, I twitch my fly when it’s drifting. Granted, I attempt for it to be subtle, and only a movement every couple of feet or so, but a lot of the hits come right at the twitch.
I concur with this. Another "action" technique I especially like is skittering a caddis imitation through shallow, pocket water. Not sure if it is more effective than just a drag free drift but it sure produces some exciting takes. Streamers: Practically all my fish come during the strip or the swing. I do pick up fish occasionally during a drag-free drift but I don’t fish a streamer that often that way. 10%
I’m not a very able streamer fisherman but I frequently cast up and across with a streamer and let it drift down pretty much drag free to allow it to sink. I have taken some fish during this "drag free" part of the drift. Peter? Willi
Dries: definitely in the 90+% range during most mayfly hatches. During stonefly hatches, however, or even when I fish a hopper during terrestrial season, I twitch my fly when it’s drifting. Granted, I attempt for it to be subtle, and only a movement every couple of feet or so, but a lot of the hits come right at the twitch. I concur with this. Another "action" technique I especially like is skittering a caddis imitation through shallow, pocket water. Not sure if it is more effective than just a drag free drift but it sure produces some exciting takes.
A very fun hatch on the Clark Fork is a #14 olive caddis, a ‘green rock worm’, IIRC. A free-living caddis. Use a LaFontaine-style (God rest his soul) emerging caddis fished just under the surface film down and across or just straight down. If the fly is making a ‘V’ they don’t seem to want it. But if you get it to still be twitching & dragging, literally just under the surface, they wack it pretty hard. There is a particular hole on the CF that really can only best be fished with an almost straight down approach with this method, but right at dusk on a mid-July evening… oh boy! Streamers: Practically all my fish come during the strip or the swing. I do pick up fish occasionally during a drag-free drift but I don’t fish a streamer that often that way. 10% I’m not a very able streamer fisherman but I frequently cast up and across with a streamer and let it drift down pretty much drag free to allow it to sink. I have taken some fish during this "drag free" part of the drift. Peter?
I must amend to my streamer statement above that most of my streamer fishing is done from a boat. With a good oarsman at the helm, you can get some amazingly good presentations that can cover a lot of good water. — Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dries: definitely in the 90+% range during most mayfly hatches. During stonefly hatches, however, or even when I fish a hopper during terrestrial season, I twitch my fly when it’s drifting. Granted, I attempt for it to be subtle, and only a movement every couple of feet or so, but a lot of the hits come right at the twitch. I concur with this. Another "action" technique I especially like is skittering a caddis imitation through shallow, pocket water. Not sure if it is more effective than just a drag free drift but it sure produces some exciting takes. Streamers: Practically all my fish come during the strip or the swing. I do pick up fish occasionally during a drag-free drift but I don’t fish a streamer that often that way. 10% I’m not a very able streamer fisherman but I frequently cast up and across with a streamer and let it drift down pretty much drag free to allow it to sink. I have taken some fish during this "drag free" part of the drift. Peter? Willi
I rarely fish streamers on the dead drift though it can be a useful imitation of a dead or dying minnow with the right pattern. I tried one day for steelhead using a small, weighted streamer on the dead drift and ended up with a bunch of bugle trout. They obviously feed on the dead. I’ve also had carp and smallies suck in streamers when I’ve been counting the fly down on the sink, while fishing in still water. I know that you know this Willi, but as a general comment . . . About drag for dries, nymphs, and wets – I try to get the situation right for the insect that’s active. One example – on Whiteman’s Creek, it was Hendrickson time but there was nothing in the air. I was dead drifting a H. nymph by a log jam in fairly deep water and was batting a fat zero. Then I remembered that Hendrickson nymphs migrate to shallow, slow water to hatch. I was standing on the inside of a bend in shallow, slow water so I slowly retrieved my H. nymph along the bottom toward me and picked up a 12" rainbow on the first try. A few more casts picked up some more fish. Some mayfly nymphs and caddis pupae are very active swimmers and some mayfly emergers change into adult form a foot or so below the surface before swimming up with their wings (e.g. Dark Hendricksons.) Many caddis do the same and with some species, the gas they generate causes them to rocket up. As caddis have micro hairs on their wings they can fly off immediately on emergence whereas mayflies usually need to dry their wings first resulting in lots of fluttering. Some caddis skitter across the surface before flying off and a few stillwater caddis will skate on the surface all the way to the shore. When egg laying, some caddis and mayflies dap their eggs on the surface while other caddis and mayflies dive, penetrating the meniscus and laying their eggs on the bottom before swimming back up and flying off (or dying in the mayfly case.) Small trout will often leap out of the water after dapping egg layers while others actively chase the divers. None of this behaviour can be imitated by a dead drift. Moral: Know the behaviour of the bug. Drag is not always your enemy – especially when it’s deliberate. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html
One of the first hurdles a beginer needs to clear is to learn how to present a fly on a dead drift. It’s a very important skill but how often is it necessary or even desirable? What percentage of fish do you take during a "dragfree" drift for: Dries Nymphs Wets Streamers My estimates: Dries: 90 Nymphs: 80 Wets: 50 Streamers: 20 Willi
One of the first hurdles a beginer needs to clear is to learn how to present a fly on a dead drift. It’s a very important skill but how often is it necessary or even desirable? What percentage of fish do you take during a "dragfree" drift for: Dries … My estimates: Dries: 90
When people talk about "educated" fish, I think recognizing a dragfree drift is the piscine equivalent of the PhD. I also think it’s highly dependent on the particular watershed. Some places, relatively sterile mountain streams for instance, you can catch a fish with just about any sort of drift at all. On a heavily fished spring creek I’d say that the percentage of fish I take with a dragfree drift is for all intents and purposes 100%. — Ken Fortenberry
One of the first hurdles a beginer needs to clear is to learn how to present a fly on a dead drift. It’s a very important skill but how often is it necessary or even desirable?
Well, IMO, the term "drag free" drift is the wrong term to use for _teaching_ beginners, although _presenting_ in such fashion, is, to me, different than _fishing_ a fly, even if the take occurs within a second or two of presentation. What is important as to _fishing_ is to not appear so unnatural as to either confuse, and therefore, "spook," a fish or simply telegraph that an offering isn’t food. Granted, this often means no unnatural drag, which is often "drag free" and likely, most experienced fishers know this and use the term "drag free" as a catch-all term. But I think it does beginners a disservice to teach absolutes (take "the wrist must always be locked or you are casting improperly" training many get, for example) as being an absolute success/failure type of situation. What percentage of fish do you take during a "dragfree" drift for: My estimates: Dries: 90 Nymphs: 80 Wets: 50 Streamers: 20
Hmm…I thought a little about it, and I can’t come up with any numbers beyond mere WAGs. Maybe to my detriment, I don’t seem to take note of this type of data in such a way to be able to quantify it. I’m not suggesting that doing so is improper, just that I don’t. Or maybe I do take subconscious note, but it has become one of those "I don’t know why I do it that way, I just do" things. But if forced to make a WAG, I’d say dries, about like your number, wets, about 80-90, and streamers, upwards of 0, but less than 10 <G (simply due to the way I <mostly fish streamers, they wouldn’t be doing much "drifting," drag-free or otherwise, as I take your meaning of "drifting.") TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Willi
One of the first hurdles a beginer needs to clear is to learn how to present a fly on a dead drift. It’s a very important skill but how often is it necessary or even desirable? What percentage of fish do you take during a "dragfree" drift for: Dries
have to say 99% Worked dries are a minor tactic for me. Nymphs
couldn’t possibly tell with the deep nymphs, but certainly to shallow sighted fish 100% Wets
70% Streamers
10% Steve
What percentage of fish do you take during a "dragfree" drift for: Dries 95% Nymphs 95% Wets 40% Streamers
10%
What percentage of fish do you take during a "dragfree" drift for: Dries 95% Nymphs 95% Wets 40% Streamers 10%
Your percentage for nymphs is surprising to me. Do you usually let them swing across at the end of the dragfree part of the drift? I take many fish on nymphs, especially BH PTs, on the rising part of the swing–almost as many as when I fish traditional wets (soft hackles, etc.) this way. JR
One of the first hurdles a beginer needs to clear is to learn how to present a fly on a dead drift. It’s a very important skill but how often is it necessary or even desirable? My estimates: Nymphs: 80
The more I think about nymphing, the harder it is to believe that a drag free drift happens very often. Think how difficult it can be with dry flies – in 2 dimensions. Nymphing is in 3 dimensions, so the problems you have with a dry fly drift are magnified. Finally, add in the fact that the water slows near the bottom of the river where we often fish nymphs, and it’s a wonder we ever catch a fish. I conclude 2 things: – we are not always getting a drag free drift, but many nymphs do move around under water under their own power. Sometimes drag simulates this. – there are so many swirling currents in "mixed water" (near bottom rocks and obstructions), that even the trout can’t always detect drag underwater. Even natural nymphs move in randomly changing ways in some of the "micro currents". There must be places where the flow is constant and trout can detect drag, but there must be places where it’s not, too. You can probably convince yourself of this by tossing little things into turbulent water several times and watching how they drift differently each time.
One of the first hurdles a beginer needs to clear is to learn how to present a fly on a dead drift. It’s a very important skill but how often is it necessary or even desirable?
An interesting question, and one I have no idea of the answer. One thing RDean said tweaked my though process however, and I began thinking not in terms of drag, but time as measurement. I’m actually amazed at how many of the fish I catch hit the fly within a couple seconds of it hitting the water. That probably means I suck at drag free drift. I’m also amazed at how fast the fish can get there. Unless I’m dropping it right on his nose, those guys really cover some ground, so to speak. On occasions where flows are simple enough, I do catch some farther down the drift, but generally if I don’t have a take in the first 5 sec., I’m not going to get one. Joe F.
Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing » East Lake Oregon Report, crowds, theft alert
Thanks for the report. I’ll have a few days in September to make it to Central Oregon and I’m looking forward to that. Speaking of theft, I’m still looking for my goretex wading jacket in the green waterbag from May. I think I’ll put a tag on my stuff with my email. Honest flyfisherman will know what to do, and the rest can go to ….
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Mid-Willamette Fly Fishers held their annual outing at East Lake (SE of Burns) this weekend. Fly fishing was good for rainbows and browns to the mid teens size wise. Morning and evening seemed to be the best, and there were many types of insects hatching. Despite being there 3 days, I invested all of 1 hour wading the NE corner, casting dries, and landing 2 nice rainbows. Otherwise I went x-country hiking and lounged around taking pictures. The partial bummer this year was the crowds. Evidently Davis Lake, Wickiup and many other traditional summer time lakes in the Cascades are showing severe signs of drought, so speculation is that everyone is rushing to the spring fed East Lake and Paulina Lake, where my guess is the water level is down all of 6" (six inches). The East Lake campgrounds were the fullest I have seen them in 5 years, and the NE beaches in the evening had dozens of motor boats and float tubes beached on them. Which brings me to a warning. I was surfing another forum, and saw a very recent posting from someone who had a raft stolen at one of the Century Lakes Drive (e.g. Lava Lake, Craine Prairie, Davis Lake, a zillion other lakes) campgrounds. When the police officer arrived to take a report, this individual learned that there has been a rash of thefts from many campgrounds. The speculation is that there is a "gang" making early morning (4 am) rounds. Everyone in our club has felt so safe at many of the mostly fly-fishing only lakes that we have been leaving our tubes on the beach rather than haul them back to camp. Thomas Gilg
has been a rash of thefts from many campgrounds. The speculation is that there is a "gang" making early morning (4 am) rounds. Everyone in our club has felt so safe at
My beloved 78 yr old father had his 9.9 Evinrude stolen off the back of his drift boat while at Cresant Lake last weekend. They cut the lock and hauled it off. They left the gas tank which was on the front porch of the cabin less than 20′ away… I’ll leave the assessment of the relative intelligence of said scumbags to your own imagination. Cos
The Mid-Willamette Fly Fishers held their annual outing at East Lake (SE of Burns) this weekend. Fly fishing was good for rainbows and browns to the mid teens size wise. Morning and evening seemed to be the best, and there were many types of insects hatching. Despite being there 3 days, I invested all of 1 hour wading the NE corner, casting dries, and landing 2 nice rainbows. Otherwise I went x-country hiking and lounged around taking pictures. The partial bummer this year was the crowds. Evidently Davis Lake, Wickiup and many other traditional summer time lakes in the Cascades are showing severe signs of drought, so speculation is that everyone is rushing to the spring fed East Lake and Paulina Lake, where my guess is the water level is down all of 6" (six inches). The East Lake campgrounds were the fullest I have seen them in 5 years, and the NE beaches in the evening had dozens of motor boats and float tubes beached on them. Which brings me to a warning. I was surfing another forum, and saw a very recent posting from someone who had a raft stolen at one of the Century Lakes Drive (e.g. Lava Lake, Craine Prairie, Davis Lake, a zillion other lakes) campgrounds. When the police officer arrived to take a report, this individual learned that there has been a rash of thefts from many campgrounds. The speculation is that there is a "gang" making early morning (4 am) rounds. Everyone in our club has felt so safe at many of the mostly fly-fishing only lakes that we have been leaving our tubes on the beach rather than haul them back to camp. Thomas Gilg
Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Flyfishing » Merc 25XD carb question
I cannot find a serial number on this engine but need to know what the proper float setting is. It is a two cylinder engine with single carb. The carb has the plunger type choke set-up, maybe this will help identify it. Any help here will be greatly appreciated. Thanks
Fishing East Central Florida and Flyfishing Pages
I cannot find a serial number on this engine but need to know what the proper float setting is. It is a two cylinder engine with single carb. The carb has the plunger type choke set-up, maybe this will help identify it. Any help here will be greatly appreciated. Thanks
Without seeing the carb design, my vague, general answer for float settings would be: Float height – Hold carb upside down and make the float parallel with the bowl mounting surface. Float drop – Low… but not touching the bottom of the bowl. If it’s some other odd-ball design, or if you are unsure of how to do it, a service manual would come in very handy. Also remember, that if you do something wrong that causes a lean condition, a rebuilt powerhead costs a lot more than having a shop check the carb out. Mike Seiler
Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing » Mid-Atlantic Camping Fly-in Locations
Can anyone offer any suggestions of fly-in camping-fishing-hunting-etc. locations? Looking for get-away weekend stuff for my son and I to try. NC, SC, VA areas most appealing, but any would be of interest. Gene
Ocracoke NC and Cherry Springs state park PA are two of our favorites. – Rod Farlee
Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fish » Salmon River, NY- Your Ideas
Bill, These sound like questions posed to you by the DEC (or whoever) after you sent them our responses? And thanks for taking this on. The DEC needs to know that people really are concerned about this issue. Regarding the previous thread we have discussed, would you think a one fish limit would adversely effect businesses? Would a catch and release regulation adversely affect busines??
This of course depends on the business. I’m sure places that buy/sell eggs would suffer, as would those who clean and smoke fish. I would suspect that the business to guide and lodge people who already practice CPR (Catch, Photo, Release) would be unchanged, or even see an increase in business. If I had a message to send to the folks in Pulaski, it would be that a nice flyrod costs significantly more than an Ugly Stick. As can be shown all over the world – there is money to be made by catering to people who flyfish. Just because you outlaw snagging or whatever doesn’t mean that the local economy is in ruin. In fact, changing the regs should be viewed as a method to *INCREASE* the cash flow into the area. A shop just might have to switch from cleaning fish and tying spawn sacks to tying flies and selling materials. Big deal. Would you continue to be challanged by this fishery if either regulations went into effect?
Well, duh! <big grin, of course If the challenge was just to bring home a cooler full of fish, then there are better ways of doing that then standing in 33 degree water in a blizzard. OF COURSE I’d still be challenged. These are steelhead for crying out loud. They’re never going to be push-overs no matter how many you can keep. Heck, let’s be radical here. Make the whole d*mned river Catch and Release, artificials only. And stop stocking all those Pacific salmon and maybe the temptation to snag might actually fade a bit. Replace them with Atlantics. If you can get a significant run of sizeable Atlantic Salmon, the money will flow into Pulaski like never before. Or just make up the difference with Lakers, Browns, and Steelhead. Eventually, you might be able to fish the Salmon River without having to defend your reasons why. Wouldn’t that be nice? Well – you *did* ask for opinions, didn’t you? 
Bob Petti Endwell, NY
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Regarding the previous thread we have discussed, would you think a one fish limit would adversely effect businesses? Would a catch and release regulation adversely affect busines?? Would you continue to be challanged by this fishery if either regulations went into effect? Again, thanks for your comments. Bill — Bill Fling Tel. (315) 298-3044 SALMON RIVER ANGLERS LODGE FAX (315) 298-2619 P.O. Box 353 Rt. 13, Rome Road Pulaski, NY 13142-0353 ’SALMON RIVER/LAKE ONTARIO SPORTFISHING REPORTS’ ’http://www.salmon-river.com’
I love the Salmon River area. I won’t come up to fish the public streches in the fall when the slobs are shoulder to shoulder in the river (a friend went up last year, and said that fellow "anglers" would cut his line or burn it through with a cigarette when he couldn’t follow a fish downstream fast enough and it crossed in front of someone else.) However, another friend tells me that he knows how to take steelhead on dries in October, obviously in the private stretches, and I want to come up and try that. I also plan to come up and fly fish for pike and smallmouth in the lower river in July, when the town is quiet and the fish relatively unmolested. And I am considering a winter drift-boat trip. Will a one-fish regulation hurt business? I think yes, at least at first, because a lot of the people who come up are looking for the festival atmosphere and the chance to kill something. Can the lost business be made up? Perhaps, if quality is emphasized over quantity, and an effort is made to attract the sportsman and actively dissuade the slob. One-fish limits, FF-only, emphasizing underexploited opportunities with local species like pike can help. But can they overcome the volume you will lose? I don’t know, and I am pessimistic, as much as I know that I would be eager to come. "Moderation should never be taken to extremes"
Bill, These sound like questions posed to you by the DEC (or whoever) after you sent them our responses?
Nope, these are my questions regarding a really serious issue here locally. I’m a new president of the local Chamber of Commerce and need to find out what our customers think. You know, those folks who make this economy possible! And thanks for taking this on. The DEC needs to know that people really are concerned about this issue.
No problem, my skin is getting thicker every day. Thanks for the input, it counts. Sincerely, Bill — Bill Fling Tel. (315) 298-3044 SALMON RIVER ANGLERS LODGE FAX (315) 298-2619 P.O. Box 353 Rt. 13, Rome Road Pulaski, NY 13142-0353 ‘SALMON RIVER/LAKE ONTARIO SPORTFISHING REPORTS’ ‘http://www.salmon-river.com’
Regarding the previous thread we have discussed, would you think a one fish limit would adversely effect businesses? Would a catch and release regulation adversely affect busines?? Would you continue to be challanged by this fishery if either regulations went into effect? Again, thanks for your comments. Bill — Bill Fling Tel. (315) 298-3044 SALMON RIVER ANGLERS LODGE FAX (315) 298-2619 P.O. Box 353 Rt. 13, Rome Road Pulaski, NY 13142-0353 ‘SALMON RIVER/LAKE ONTARIO SPORTFISHING REPORTS’ ‘http://www.salmon-river.com’
Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing Flies » FF in 1,000 islands, NY
I am planning to be in the 1,000 islands area for the weekend of 9/28. What’s the flyfishing like there? Where are the ‘good’ spots, and what flies are being used. Also, I am not even sure what fish are available. Please help! Mac
I am planning to be in the 1,000 islands area for the weekend of 9/28. What’s the flyfishing like there? Where are the ‘good’ spots, and what flies are being used. Also, I am not even sure what fish are available.
1. Fly fishing for bass usually ends rather suddenly in mid-September: but everything is late this year…. 2. Muskellunge is the prized local species for fall fishing, and might be taken on fly, but no one tries. (Everyone trolls.) 3. Lake Ontario tributaries in NY state (south to Oswego) should then be full of chinook and coho salmon and some accompanying trout species too, which can mostly be caught on fly. You need good local information, however, for all these species. You’d have the most fly fishing fun with #3, perhaps employing a guide. — | Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs, | | Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734 |
Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Flyfishing » which level are you??
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The thing of it is, all this competitive junk we heap upon our pursuits more often than not will keep us from enjoying them fully. Don’t worry about your ‘level’, answer the question ‘Am I having fun ?’ If yes, then keep doing it ! An interesting aside, I was recently approached to run a FFing school and was kind of uneasy about it, though I didn’t know why. This string answered my question, think I’ll pass ! jc COME ON! jeeze! you guys are relentless! The level thing was obviously (to me) a tongue in cheek post concerning the realization that that you really *are* here to be in the moment and enjoy your surroundings : 5)just go fishing and soak in the experience, catching fish just a plus… If you guys would stop trying to be so damned elitist, you would see that half the posts you flame are posts you would agree with if you would take the time to read them.
Congratulations, You have demonstrated a command of the language which may be unobtainable by the "elitists". Words do have meaning. Reading is such hard work. Dennis
: I’ve been flyfishing for more than a decade, and a couple of years ago I : realized I had reached the fifth level of flyfishing. The levels are: : 1) catch a fish with this hard to operate equipment : 2)catch lots of fish : 3)catch a large fish : 4)catch lots of large fish : 5)just go fishing and soak in the experience, catching fish just a plus… I’m at all these levels, I love to fish and catch fish, whether it’s tarpon in Florida or bluegill down the road, or just watching a trout feed and not wetting a line. Why limit yourself. I will fish for anything, anywhere, anytime and enjoy it. John
Well said! Jack
How many of you were ever new to flyfishing? Do you remember that first stike, how the excitement surged as you "swung and missed". And that rush as you clumsily horsed in you first fish. And what about the satifaction as you let that first big brute go after a battle well fought. Let us not loose sight of why we fish…That big chess game we play with Mother Nature. Instead of limiting the players, why not educate them on how the "game" is played. Anyone who wants to enjoy this wonderfull sport of Flyfishing should be able to WITHOUT the harassment of others. Maybe a helping hand should be extended instead of a judgemental finger. Dana Clark
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Pavlov) writes: : : tim: look, why don’t you cut folks like the originator of this thread : a little slack. he did nothing to deserve your relentless sarcasm, … : Maybe everyone is getting a little touchy. I don’t see how Tim’s posts reflected on the originator of the thread. The one that you quoted was a response to someone else altogether. greg pavlov
It never fails to amaze me that regardless of the hobby, there are those who use their proficiency as a weapon to downgrade those who are less accomplished. When I first got into photography (prior to the wonders of the internet) I ran into the same smug and demeaning attitude I find on this forum on occasion. Let’s face it, after A River Ran Through It was released thousands of newcomers became enamoured with flyfishing. Some of these people are just trendy types who confuse fishing with ownership of all the toys. They will never really appreciate the joy of standing in a stream and taking it all in. Most of these people will fish awhile and then put their equipment in the closet along with the remains of their other short-term obsessions. On the other hand, there are those who seriously enjoy the experience and who plan on spending the next several years learning flyfishing and being responsible in what they do. Oldbies should take the time to learn the difference. Bo Johnson
Dear Gentlemen; If I may expand this idea of "the clothes make the man": Sure, there are a lot of middle-aged and younger flyfisherman with the newer more technologically developed gear, but look at where 4-wheel drives have gone. Who would have ever though a uper-mid. class house wife would lust after a Chevy Blazer, for heaven’s sake! There are a lot of established F.Fisherman here in the east who don’t have a lot of money and who persue their sport with the single-midedness of an olympic athelete. They welcomed me to thier waters, (if not thier ranks, yet), and gave me the info I neede to catch fish. None of these guys act in a demeaning way if you do not have the best equipment. If you have the *right* equip., that is important. They know what will catch trout. They also know that just having the right equip. guarantees nothing. Stuff works or it doesn’t. Sometimes, no matter how good you rod is, well, trout can’t read, and they have no concept of money. Some fantastic F.Fisherman from my home area, NW PA, have rather inexpensive glass rods and cheap reels. They learned long ago that the flyline and the presentation of a fly which the trout *might* take are the most important factors. We cannot get on people’s cases about equipment. Technique will be lost. I honestly need better technique. I know I don’t do what I should as well as I should, but expensive equipment (or new) will not help me. Overall, I have found that the oldest of the order are the most accepting of new blood. They are less competetive for fish. I owe them tremendously. Sincerely; Jason Beary
Another level altogether: when you take your neighbor’s kid out because he/she looks a little down. You leave your rod behind so you can concentrate on helping this youngster have the best time he/she possibly can. — Laboratory for Applied Logic Dept. of Computer Science University of Idaho www: http://www.cs.uidaho.edu/~foster —–BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK—– Version: 2.6.2 mQCNAzDtvLEAAAEEAKAC21G2Be0K0DMgjLpxrwLmsYfCz8rWcfgyABjr3Ryfk1dO nV7fFFpUF3xohR7die+/B2V9oqRQzTLeSF2ECKlsTY/yUyw2kn+P2ju1umh4Fwzd cVTvc+H69q1+Ft3kmw/PE0Pan+g0PUGGJ43stw3q4OgBHdixbRd/f9giJFDxAAUR tCZKYW1lcyBBLiBGb3N0ZXIgPGZvc3RlckBjcy51aWRhaG8uZWR1PokAlQMFEDD8 ReEXf3/YIiRQ8QEBFrAD/2AFuRWcD/3MENC3qJMC/Or1qxknjkK7Uv+TDf2LHPOY GHBbG9PyWuXQ8of0Dd+JYwf/tzlO9Yk1s1zTdikfriak21FW0bCokxDIhA3myppZ IZDWVA9CyvDYHuP5Ii1NkBvocab813JzDLZA+0iVN5sebGb9zSXR4Za47hlriHeP =RDHK —–END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK—–
"Another level altogether: when you take your neighbor’s kid out because he/she looks a little down. You leave your rod behind so you can concentrate on helping this youngster have the best time he/she possibly can." This person is a "master" fly fisher. We all concentrate on our equipment, where we fish, how many fish we catch and so on. After many years we reach a level where we own fine quality equipment, we’ve fished all of the popular waters for a variety of species, and we’ve caught more fish than we can remember – and probably fewer than we sometimes profess. At this time we are regarded by our peers and ourselves as accomplished and notable fly fishers. But, until you take the time to pass along you knowledge, in a gentle and patient manner, you have not mastered the sport. Congratulations on reaching this ultimate plateau.
I’ve been flyfishing for more than a decade, and a couple of years ago I realized I had reached the fifth level of flyfishing. The levels are: 1) catch a fish with this hard to operate equipment 2)catch lots of fish 3)catch a large fish 4)catch lots of large fish 5)just go fishing and soak in the experience, catching fish just a plus…
Is it possible that there is a (6) Be near water dreaming of the fishes with no intention of doing anything to them, but knowing that you could, if you wanted to..? Rowing my little dory on trappers lake and seeing all of the cutts in the gin clear water with no desire for… Dooo Dooo Dooo…. …ripping lips. Tim Walker
: (6) Be near water dreaming of the fishes with no intention of doing : anything to them, but knowing that you could, if you wanted to..? Tim, maybe you should start an RFD for "rec.outdoors.stop-fishing" because that’s what you seem to advocate nowadays. — Jeff Smith Graduate student http://www.msc.cornell.edu/~jeffs Cornell University, Ithaca, NY
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : (6) Be near water dreaming of the fishes with no intention of doing : anything to them, but knowing that you could, if you wanted to..? Tim, maybe you should start an RFD for "rec.outdoors.stop-fishing" because that’s what you seem to advocate nowadays. Nah… But I’d like to see… rec.outdoors.flyfishing.lets-put-the-fishing-back-in-flyfishing rec.outdoors.flyfishing.is_fashionable rec.outdoors.flyfishing.natural_order_is_extinct rec.outdoors.flyfishing.C&R.might_as_well_stock_the_olympic_sized_pool rec.outdoors.flyfishing.pensive rec.outdoors.flyfishing.binaries.pictures.erotica.trout.tasteless Tim Walker
tim: look, why don’t you cut folks like the originator of this thread a little slack. he did nothing to deserve your relentless sarcasm, which is simply becoming tiresome to many of us who might even agree with some of your positions. if you want to engage in competitive verbal abuse, pick on someone your own size. just email me or fletcher or jeff smith, etc., when you feel froggy. meanwhile, let the newbies and the innocents alone to do their walden/thoreau thing in peace. a. wayne harrison
: : : (6) Be near water dreaming of the fishes with no intention of doing : : anything to them, but knowing that you could, if you wanted to..? : : Tim, maybe you should start an RFD for "rec.outdoors.stop-fishing" : because that’s what you seem to advocate nowadays. : : Nah… <blah, blah, blah : Tim Walker Tim… *yawn* oh, nevermind. -chuck o. —
I’ve been flyfishing for more than a decade, and a couple of years ago I realized I had reached the fifth level of flyfishing. The levels are: 1) catch a fish with this hard to operate equipment 2)catch lots of fish 3)catch a large fish 4)catch lots of large fish 5)just go fishing and soak in the experience, catching fish just a plus… Am I alone, or have others experienced this with their own fishing?? Oh yeah, I’m the guy who started the thread about discovering "slower" rods and increasing my enjoyment of the sport 10 fold… Dennis
: I’ve been flyfishing for more than a decade, and a couple of years ago I : realized I had reached the fifth level of flyfishing. The levels are: : 1) catch a fish with this hard to operate equipment : 2)catch lots of fish : 3)catch a large fish : 4)catch lots of large fish : 5)just go fishing and soak in the experience, catching fish just a plus… : Am I alone, or have others experienced this with their own fishing?? : Oh yeah, I’m the guy who started the thread about discovering "slower" : rods and increasing my enjoyment of the sport 10 fold… : Dennis Yea, I’ve reached level 5 too… But I skipped levels 2, 3, and 4. 
-chuck o. (not joanne b.) OST, maybe I did attain level 3 (w/o attaining level 2, of course)… depens on your definition of "large." —
: (6) Be near water dreaming of the fishes with no intention of doing : anything to them, but knowing that you could, if you wanted to..? Tim, maybe you should start an RFD for "rec.outdoors.stop-fishing" because that’s what you seem to advocate nowadays.
Nah… But I’d like to see… rec.outdoors.flyfishing.lets-put-the-fishing-back-in-flyfishing rec.outdoors.flyfishing.is_fashionable rec.outdoors.flyfishing.natural_order_is_extinct rec.outdoors.flyfishing.C&R.might_as_well_stock_the_olympic_sized_pool rec.outdoors.flyfishing.pensive rec.outdoors.flyfishing.binaries.pictures.erotica.trout.tasteless Tim Walker
: But I’d like to see… : rec.outdoors.flyfishing.binaries.pictures.erotica.trout.tasteless What would be in this group… the 4 inchers or the 10 inchers? — Rick T. Rick Fletcher – http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry | That’s Idaho, not Iowa. | ad hominem University of Idaho | Upper Left Hand Corner. | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343 | No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem
Congratulations on attaining that state. Welcome to the group of flyfishers that see the spiritual aspect of flyfishing. Not only see it, but practice it. I too progressed through the process. Level 5. Jonathan Livingston Seagull wondered what level is next. JJ
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : : : (6) Be near water dreaming of the fishes with no intention of doing : : anything to them, but knowing that you could, if you wanted to..? : : Tim, maybe you should start an RFD for "rec.outdoors.stop-fishing" : because that’s what you seem to advocate nowadays. : : Nah… <blah, blah, blah : Tim Walker Tim… *yawn* oh, nevermind. -chuck o. —
Go Tim! Go!
WHAT IS IT WITH SOME OF YOU GUYS/GALS? You were new to the sport at one time so why not give a lot of newbies a little slack? We may be newer to it than you but we certainly do not come to it with any less honorabel intentions. We too love the outdoors and the total experience. We too love the idea of learning to excel at the sport. SO, PLEASE forgive us if we take a spot on the water once in awhile.
It’s concepts like being at a "level" that make me feel like joining Tim Walker sometimes. There seems to be this "karate school" mentality about; white belt, yellow belt, black belt etc. that people need to attach to everything. It’s as if we need a constant reassurance of our self worth. The twisted thing is, fishing has traditionally been a place to get AWAY from this crap, it’s a mental state where you just exist as a part of the water. It’s inner peace. If it’s there for you, it’s there regardless of your ability. When I started FFing it was like 1967, and I used to fish in the ocean for pollock, mackerel, cod and the occasional sea raven, when is like a sea robin that inflates when out of the water, we used to call them ‘grubbies’. It was a delight for me to catch anything then. I never thought of a grubbie as being inferior to a striper, and had never heard of tarpon, bones, etc. Now I catch mostly stripers & blues, but this summer I was standing on the dock at our marina just dangling a clouser in a couple feet of water and up comes this mass of weeds – no it’s a grubbie! and arcs under the fly, returning to the piling he lived at. I was thrilled, by a ‘trash’ fish. The thing of it is, all this competitive junk we heap upon our pursuits more often than not will keep us from enjoying them fully. Don’t worry about your ‘level’, answer the question ‘Am I having fun ?’ If yes, then keep doing it ! An interesting aside, I was recently approached to run a FFing school and was kind of uneasy about it, though I didn’t know why. This string answered my question, think I’ll pass ! jc
I have to confess, I’m a little surprised at the simplistic ideology being embraced in this thread. To believe that any pursuit in life is a straight-line progression from crude to intellectually and spiritually superior is a little naive. I have fished for 35+ years, 24 of those as a fly-fisher, and I have days when I just want to be out in the environs and every- thing else is secondary and days when catching a fish is almost a holy quest. It depends on a lot of factors. How long since the last time I was out? Who am I with? Have I ever fished this body of water before? What kind of reputation does this water have? Did I get a chance to tie any of those secret weapon flies I’ve been telling all my friends ‘can’t miss’? How good am I feeling about myself this week? It’s too complex to reduce to "I went though stage 1 in 1974, stage 2 in 1976, etc." I guess, to me, fishing is a form of play. The child in me wants to be mature and philosophically superior. But, it’s just a child and is too busy enjoying the pursuit to spend the time and energy analyzing its motives. When it all comes together and I rise to that ‘higher plateau’, I enjoy the smug feeling. And, when I’m in my neanderthal frame of reference, I enjoy that too. Just so there is no mistake– I always protect the resource to the best of my knowledge and ability. I have removed many thousands of yards of monofilament from streams and beaches in my 35+ years. I never go into the woods that I don’t take a trash container and return with any trash I see, can reach, and can carry. My sons were a little upset when they realized not everyone had a dad that made them pick up trash in the woods. But, that’s just one of the rules of the game, as I play it! Tight lines and Happy times! Charley
WHAT IS IT WITH SOME OF YOU GUYS/GALS? You were new to the sport at one time so why not give a lot of newbies a little slack? We may be newer to it than you but we certainly do not come to it with any less honorabel intentions. We too love the outdoors and the total experience. We too love the idea of learning to excel at the sport. SO, PLEASE forgive us if we take a spot on the water once in awhile.
: I’ve been flyfishing for more than a decade, and a couple of years ago I : realized I had reached the fifth level of flyfishing. The levels are: : 1) catch a fish with this hard to operate equipment : 2)catch lots of fish : 3)catch a large fish : 4)catch lots of large fish : 5)just go fishing and soak in the experience, catching fish just a plus… I’m at all these levels, I love to fish and catch fish, whether it’s tarpon in Florida or bluegill down the road, or just watching a trout feed and not wetting a line. Why limit yourself. I will fish for anything, anywhere, anytime and enjoy it. John
The thing of it is, all this competitive junk we heap upon our pursuits more often than not will keep us from enjoying them fully. Don’t worry about your ‘level’, answer the question ‘Am I having fun ?’ If yes, then keep doing it ! An interesting aside, I was recently approached to run a FFing school and was kind of uneasy about it, though I didn’t know why. This string answered my question, think I’ll pass ! jc
COME ON! jeeze! you guys are relentless! The level thing was obviously (to me) a tongue in cheek post concerning the realization that that you really *are* here to be in the moment and enjoy your surroundings : 5)just go fishing and soak in the experience, catching fish just a plus…
If you guys would stop trying to be so damned elitist, you would see that half the posts you flame are posts you would agree with if you would take the time to read them.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have to confess, I’m a little surprised at the simplistic ideology being embraced in this thread. To believe that any pursuit in life is a straight-line progression from crude to intellectually and spiritually superior is a little naive. I have fished for 35+ years, 24 of those as a fly-fisher, and I have days when I just want to be out in the environs and every- thing else is secondary and days when catching a fish is almost a holy quest. I guess, to me, fishing is a form of play. The child in me wants to be mature and philosophically superior. But, it’s just a child and is too busy enjoying the pursuit to spend the time and energy analyzing its motives. When it all comes together and I rise to that ‘higher plateau’, I enjoy the smug feeling. And, when I’m in my neanderthal frame of reference, I enjoy that too.
Dear Sir, You have summed up quite elonquently what I meant by spirituality. I don’t recall writing the word "Superior". I must clarify that my intention was not to convey a sense of superiority. But, wanted to convey that the whole process represents spiritual growth. There is no elitism here…..elitism has made me puke for years. JJ
Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing Tackle » LONG ISLAND FISHING
I know an awesome salt water fly guide who fishes Long Island sound. He is reasonable and thinks like a fish. He is a good freind, but an even better guide. Let me know if you are interested.
I WILL BE IN THE LONG ISLAND AREA IN THE EARLY SUMMER. ANY SUGGESTIONS FOR SALT WATER FLY OPPORTUNITIES?
Sorry – I should have said try rec.outdoors.fishing.saltwater
If you’re gonna be on the east End of Long Island, there are three shops in east hampton. Paul Dixon, who used to manage Orvis in NYC, has a shop in EH called Dixon’s sporting life and he runs flats boats on Gardiners Bay for Strippers and blues. There’s another fellow between EH and Amagagansett who has a french name which I do not recall right now. His shop is Lure and Feather and its worth checking out. Finally, there’s Harvey Bennett and the Amagansett tackle shop where Fly fishing is not the only show, but he’s worth checking out. For flats fishing check out gardiners bay. On a map this is the area north of the south Fork where it gets wide just east of EH. There are some beaches that provide access to the water, but you may have to talk to the town offices to find out where you could park without a required permit. It is NY afterall. Gerard Drive, which seperates Gardiners bay from Accabonac Harbort is Beautiful. Have a good time.
I WILL BE IN THE LONG ISLAND AREA IN THE EARLY SUMMER. ANY SUGGESTIONS FOR SALT WATER FLY OPPORTUNITIES?
I’d like to doing some salt action in the chessequake state park area this spring from the beach area, any suggestions as to time(apr,may, june?), and specific locations?
GBloom, Bay Head Outfitters, in Bay Head N.J. should be able to answer all you questions. Regards, Ed
I WILL BE IN THE LONG ISLAND AREA IN THE EARLY SUMMER. ANY SUGGESTIONS FOR SALT WATER FLY OPPORTUNITIES?
Try rec.outdoors.fishing.fly You have e better chance for good info there.
Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing » Trout flies and the CAN $
Just bought a copy of Farrow Allen-Dick Stewart’s book, Trout flies. It’s far and away obove the ORVIS book I’ve been using! Can’t get better pictures and descriptions…worth all of the 55$ Canadian I paid. Think of it. That’s only about 39.95$ US….. and what the hell has happened to our $. It’s no wonder we’re getting poorer. You USA residents cannot get a better vacation deal than coming to Canada. It’s a bargain when you use US dollars! Not just the fishing but the meals, hotels etcetera. Hell, I went to Scotland this year and paid the equivalent of 150$US for a bed and breakfast! Nice, mind you but very pricey by comparison. No doubt in my mind, the best deals anywhere in the world are right here in North America and in particular.. Canada!
Sounds pretty good! How do I get a copy, I can’t find it in my local fly-fishing shop?