Question:

Seeking infro. on salt water fly-fishing in the DR, thankx in advance, Stan

Response:

J R Hartley is the person to ask

Seeking infro. on salt water fly-fishing in the DR, thankx in advance, Stan

Response:

HA,HA Cougar Ric! How many years have you been waiting to say that?? — –Sent via BritishExpats Forums: http://britishexpats.com

Response:

lol, i couldn’t resist it! — Tune into my radio station. Playing the best in rock 24 hours a day! http://www.live365.com/cgi-bin/directory.cgi?autostart=cougar_ric – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – HA,HA Cougar Ric! How many years have you been waiting to say that?? — –Sent via BritishExpats Forums: http://britishexpats.com

Response:

Question:

I second that. Shawn

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think we should all let Norma know how we feel about Forrest making it to the NWC. Myself, I think it would be a once-in-a-lifetime event for a youngster to mingle with an older generation that would only have his interest at heart and spoil the H*** out of him. At the Open tournaments that my club promotes, whenever we have a young man join his father as a fishing partner, (as young as 7yrs.old), everyone in the crowd makes sure that this young man wants for nothing. The club makes sure that he walks away with more stuff in grab bags than he can hardly carry. So Norma, if you’re reading this with Forrest, please reconsider and let us enjoy our time with him, and maybe give us a memories that we didn’t get to share with our kids when they were his age. You’re flying?   It doesn’t look like Forrest is going to be able to make the tourney afterall… you know how ex-wifes are (are you reading this So… would you like to take the back seat in my boat for this one? Heck… you could even have the front seat if you wanted it.  Let me know. Ok… What I am needing is either driving info, or flying info getting to the NWC. I’m favoring flying because it’s cheaper and less travel time. But… Where do I fly to? Also, I don’t have the web-site for it and was wondering where everyone was staying? I think Steve had a motel on alert or something. Info… Info… Info… needed. If I don’t start planning now…. I’ll go crazier by September!  :-( — http://quicksitebuilder.cnet.com/thebasspro/themmightybass/ — Jerry Barton http://members.home.net/jbarton248

Response:

Thanks old buddy!!   I am sure I will hear something from her now!  <grin She has actually suggested an alternative since I last posted… she said maybe he could fly.  Because of his health condition and the likelihood that something could happen while on the road in the middle of "no where" she prefer him not be on the road with me for two days. If something, God Forbid, were to happen and we were on the road and as an example… three hours from the nearest hospital capable of treating him, it would be very tragic to say the least.  So I have to give that to her.  It only makes sense that we not risk it. So… I’m working on the flying for him.  Keep the pressure coming… I’ll let you know what she has to say.   I have serious doubts that he will be able to make it at this point but I need to talk to Huber and find out what medical facilities are around there.  Personally… I think she’s overprotective, but what mother isn’t.  <grin Thanks again.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think we should all let Norma know how we feel about Forrest making it to the NWC. Myself, I think it would be a once-in-a-lifetime event for a youngster to mingle with an older generation that would only have his interest at heart and spoil the H*** out of him. At the Open tournaments that my club promotes, whenever we have a young man join his father as a fishing partner, (as young as 7yrs.old), everyone in the crowd makes sure that this young man wants for nothing. The club makes sure that he walks away with more stuff in grab bags than he can hardly carry. So Norma, if you’re reading this with Forrest, please reconsider and let us enjoy our time with him, and maybe give us a memories that we didn’t get to share with our kids when they were his age. You’re flying?   It doesn’t look like Forrest is going to be able to make the tourney afterall… you know how ex-wifes are (are you reading this So… would you like to take the back seat in my boat for this one? Heck… you could even have the front seat if you wanted it.  Let me know. Ok… What I am needing is either driving info, or flying info getting to the NWC. I’m favoring flying because it’s cheaper and less travel time. But… Where do I fly to? Also, I don’t have the web-site for it and was wondering where everyone was staying? I think Steve had a motel on alert or something. Info… Info… Info… needed. If I don’t start planning now…. I’ll go crazier by September!  :-( — http://quicksitebuilder.cnet.com/thebasspro/themmightybass/ — Jerry Barton http://members.home.net/jbarton248

Response:

Tell us Vern, is he wearing a one piece or a bikini ???? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Steve, Do you know… you’re a legend in my kids’ mind for some reason.   I just talked to Norma about he and flying up there.   She said, "tell me about this tourney"   I told her about you and this group, etc.  She said… "Is that the guy that Forrest has on his PC’s wallpaper?" Somehow you’ve made the impression old buddy!   I guess cause he knows you are the dude hosting the tourney.   hehe   I just thought you would like to know.  I thought it was cute that he’s so taken with his buddy "Steve" that he would put your photo on his desktop wallpaper!! … Vern … What’s the possiblity of both of you flying in together, and maybe Huber or Dan Duckworth could find a boat that you could rent for you and Forrest? First of all, "C’MON MOM, LET FORREST COME AND PLAY!!!"  :) Now, the possibility of a rental boat is very real.  I talked to the new owner of TrackSide Marine, my local ProCraft/Fisher dealer.  I told him about you guys, the tournament and so on.   I explained what would be needed for a rental boat, not just a 15 hp outboard on a 14 foot rowboat, that we needed trolling motors, locators, blah, blah, blah.  He’s got a couple of used, trade-in boats that he said he’d rent to any tournament member.  If he didn’t have any appropriate used boats, then he’d take a couple of the Fisher boats and rent them, then sell them as demo’s later.  He just hasn’t figured out a rental fee yet.  More about this will be coming. — Homepage of the ROFB Northwoods Classic  http://www.uglybass.com/rofbmp

– http://members.home.net/jbarton248

Response:

Thanks!!!  Now that I know who she is… I wish I didn’t!!!   Makes me sick to my ____ing stomach!!!  Here I fight everyday for a child’s life and she…     I have no words for it.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Forget about her… Forgive my stupidity… who is Andrea Yates? Andrea Yates for one. — Consider Him snip |  Personally… I think she’s | overprotective, but what mother isn’t.  <grin | | Thanks again. |

Response:

Steve, Do you know… you’re a legend in my kids’ mind for some reason.   I just talked to Norma about he and flying up there.   She said, "tell me about this tourney"   I told her about you and this group, etc.  She said… "Is that the guy that Forrest has on his PC’s wallpaper?" Somehow you’ve made the impression old buddy!   I guess cause he knows you are the dude hosting the tourney.   hehe   I just thought you would like to know.  I thought it was cute that he’s so taken with his buddy "Steve" that he would put your photo on his desktop wallpaper!! … Vern …

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What’s the possiblity of both of you flying in together, and maybe Huber or Dan Duckworth could find a boat that you could rent for you and Forrest? First of all, "C’MON MOM, LET FORREST COME AND PLAY!!!"  :) Now, the possibility of a rental boat is very real.  I talked to the new owner of TrackSide Marine, my local ProCraft/Fisher dealer.  I told him about you guys, the tournament and so on.   I explained what would be needed for a rental boat, not just a 15 hp outboard on a 14 foot rowboat, that we needed trolling motors, locators, blah, blah, blah.  He’s got a couple of used, trade-in boats that he said he’d rent to any tournament member.  If he didn’t have any appropriate used boats, then he’d take a couple of the Fisher boats and rent them, then sell them as demo’s later.  He just hasn’t figured out a rental fee yet.  More about this will be coming. — Homepage of the ROFB Northwoods Classic  http://www.uglybass.com/rofbmp

Response:

Your suggestion to BassPro is a good one… take a duffle bag or something with essentials.  My ex-mother-in-law once took a flight… packed all her insulin and Delta (notice it wasn’t Continental!) lost her bags!!  We had to find a 24hour pharmacy, call her doctor back home and all that jazz.  Made our trip absolutely miserable! Just curious… who do you work for?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey! I have never flown before either, so even though this may be off-topic, I’m hoping that some of you experienced flyers can answer this for me… Is there a limit on how much luggage a person can bring? I’m only talking about a couple of rod carriers, a couple of boxes for the rest of my gear, and a couple of bags for clothing. Really… I have no idea how to even begin. Generally, you should have no problem with that number of bags. Suggest you take a duffle bag with a change of undies and toothbrush, any medication, or important stuff you don’t want lost, etc. for a carry-on, in case your luggage gets misplaced, or weather and/or maintenance delays keep you stuck someplace. Serious. I WORK for an airline, and I always carry a backpack with the above type stuff in it when I non-rev. travel. Learned the hard way…. B3– Robert E. Longshore

Response:

Hey Charles, Flying is way cool!   Jumping out of planes is even cooler!!  <grin I grew up around the airlines so I would almost always rather fly than drive anywhere that’s more than three hours from home.  Unfortunately it doesn’t always work out that way, but nonetheless I just went over one and a half million air miles this past March.  If it won’t get me in trouble I’ll see what I can arrange for your first ticket.  Just don’t tell anyone.  <grin Here are some baggage guidelines from MY FAVORITE AIRLINE… Continental (you figure out why they are my favorite <grin).   I hope you find them helpful. … Vern … CARRY-ON BAGGAGE – ALLOWANCES Baggage that is carried on board must easily fit within the sizing boxes (L x W x H dimensions 22" x 14" x 9" or 56 cm x 36 cm x 23 cm) which are located at Continental’s ticket counters and departure gates. The maximum combined weight of all carry-on baggage is 40 lbs (18 kg). The maximum combined linear measurement (L + W + H) of all carry-on baggage is 45 inches (114 cm). In addition to the maximum carry-on baggage allowance the following articles may be carried on board the aircraft:     One briefcase     One handbag     One small personal computer (notebook style), camera or walkman/disc player     Personal aid devices, such as crutches or cane Additional carry-on Baggage restrictions may apply on certain flights. CHECKED BAGGAGE – ALLOWANCES Travel Within the U.S.A., including Alaska and Hawaii Maximum number of 3 checked pieces per ticketed customer that adhere to the following size (measured in linear inches or centimeters, total length + width + height) and weight dimensions: 1st bag not to exceed 70 lbs (31 kg) or 62 linear inches (157 cm) 2nd bag not to exceed 70 lbs (31 kg) or 55 linear inches (140 cm) 3rd bag not to exceed 70 lbs (31 kg) 45 linear inches (114 cm) A BusinessFirst customer may check a fourth piece of baggage not to exceed 70 pounds (31 kilograms) or 45 linear inches (114 cm). Boxes are accepted on a voluntary separation and limited liability basis only.    Boxes travel "standby". All oversize or overweight baggage, all boxes and any extra pieces are carried on a space available basis, and may not arrive at customer’s destination for up to five days. Excess baggage is accepted on limited release. CABIN-SEAT BAGGAGE Continental Airlines will allow a customer to purchase a ticket for an item, approved by a Continental agent, which is too fragile or bulky to be handled as checked baggage. The following restrictions apply: Must not exceed 165 lbs (75 kg). Must be packaged or covered in a manner to avoid injury to other customers. Must be secured in a seat adjacent to the owner. Must be properly secured by a seat belt to avoid shifting during flight. Must not restrict access to, or use of, any regular or emergency exit or aisle of the cabin. Must not obscure any customer’s view of "seat belt," "no smoking" or "exit" signage. Must not contain dangerous goods. Must be reserved in advance and applicable charges paid. Please check with a Continental agent for pricing information. EXCESS BAGGAGE All charges are calculated on a one-way basis and are collected at the airport ticket counter. Additional Baggage Checked baggage in excess of the free baggage allowance will be charged as follows: $75 per piece for the first three additional pieces $100 per piece for the fourth, fifth, and sixth additional pieces $175 per piece for the seventh and any additional pieces Overweight Baggage Checked baggage exceeding 70 lbs/32 kgs will be charged at the rate of $75 per piece. These charges are in addition to any charge assessed for additional or oversized baggage. Baggage weighing more than 100 lbs/45 kgs will not be accepted as checked baggage. It may be shipped as air cargo. Please contact Continental Cargo for more details. Oversized Baggage Checked baggage which is larger than Continental’s stated size limits will be charged at the rate of $75 per piece. These charges are in addition to any charge assessed for additional or overweight baggage. Baggage measuring more than 80 in/203 cm (total outside dimensions; length + width + height) will not be accepted as checked baggage. It may be shipped as air cargo. Please contact Continental Cargo for more details. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey! I have never flown before either, so even though this may be off-topic, I’m hoping that some of you experienced flyers can answer this for me… Is there a limit on how much luggage a person can bring? I’m only talking about a couple of rod carriers, a couple of boxes for the rest of my gear, and a couple of bags for clothing. Really… I have no idea how to even begin.

Response:

All right Gill !     Now  you are beginning to make me have second thoughts about flying. I’m not much for the scenic route, and kinda prefer the security of the interstates when I get mis-placed somewhere in Oregon.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ok… What I am needing is either driving info, or flying info getting to the NWC. I’m favoring flying because it’s cheaper and less travel time. But… Where do I fly to? Also, I don’t have the web-site for it and was wondering where everyone was staying? I think Steve had a motel on alert or something. Info… Info… Info… needed. If I don’t start planning now…. I’ll go crazier by September!  :-( Hello Guys, If I can make it, I won’t go without my boat for sure. I hope there are no Zebra Muscles. 1,800 miles, sleeping in my moutaineer campershell mounted on the back of my 2001 3/4 ton Dodge Cummins Deisel, showers at truckstops, lots of cold sandwitches and plenty of java.  I figure around three days of driving would do it.  If I can go I’ll have to plan a scenic route for the return trip.  My wife already says no to letting the boys go but we can pretty forgetfull when the time comes.  "I’m sure they will always remember a trip like that" Gil

Response:

Ok… What I am needing is either driving info, or flying info getting to the NWC. I’m favoring flying because it’s cheaper and less travel time. But… Where do I fly to? Also, I don’t have the web-site for it and was wondering where everyone was staying? I think Steve had a motel on alert or something. Info… Info… Info… needed. If I don’t start planning now…. I’ll go crazier by September!  :-(

Hello Guys, If I can make it, I won’t go without my boat for sure. I hope there are no Zebra Muscles. 1,800 miles, sleeping in my mountaineer campershell mounted on the back of my 2001 3/4 ton Dodge Cummins Deisel, showers at truckstops, lots of cold sandwitches and plenty of java.  I figure around three days of driving would do it.  If I can go I’ll have to plan a scenic route for the return trip.  My wife already says no to letting the boys go but we can pretty forgetfull when the time comes.  "I’m sure they will always remember a trip like that" Gil

Response:

I’ll take a rental, as long as they’re not ProCrafts!

Why’s that Warren?  Are you worried that after fishing in a ProCraft, you won’t be happy with what you’ve got?  Besides, if you draw me in the tourney, you’ll HAVE to….  :) — Homepage of the ROFB Northwoods Classic  http://www.uglybass.com/rofbmp

Response:

Ok… What I am needing is either driving info, or flying info getting to the NWC. I’m favoring flying because it’s cheaper and less travel time. But… Where do I fly to? Also, I don’t have the web-site for it and was wondering where everyone was staying? I think Steve had a motel on alert or something. Info… Info… Info… needed. If I don’t start planning now…. I’ll go crazier by September!  :-(

Hello Guys, If I can make it, I won’t go without my boat for sure. I hope there are no Zebra Muscles. 1,800 miles, sleeping in my moutaineer campershell mounted on the back of my 2001 3/4 ton Dodge Cummins Deisel, showers at truckstops, lots of cold sandwitches and plenty of java.  I figure around three days of driving would do it.  If I can go I’ll have to plan a scenic route for the return trip.  My wife already says no to letting the boys go but we can pretty forgetfull when the time comes.  "I’m sure they will always remember a trip like that" Gil

Response:

Hey! I have never flown before either, so even though this may be off-topic, I’m hoping that some of you experienced flyers can answer this for me… Is there a limit on how much luggage a person can bring? I’m only talking about a couple of rod carriers, a couple of boxes for the rest of my gear, and a couple of bags for clothing. Really… I have no idea how to even begin.

        Generally, you should have no problem with that number of bags. Suggest you take a duffle bag with a change of undies and toothbrush, any medication, or important stuff you don’t want lost, etc. for a carry-on, in case your luggage gets misplaced, or weather and/or maintenance delays keep you stuck someplace. Serious.         I WORK for an airline, and I always carry a backpack with the above type stuff in it when I non-rev. travel. Learned the hard way….         B3– Robert E. Longshore

Response:

I’ll take a rental, as long as they’re not ProCrafts! Warren2;-)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What’s the possiblity of both of you flying in together, and maybe Huber or Dan Duckworth could find a boat that you could rent for you and Forrest? First of all, "C’MON MOM, LET FORREST COME AND PLAY!!!"  :) Now, the possibility of a rental boat is very real.  I talked to the new owner of TrackSide Marine, my local ProCraft/Fisher dealer.  I told him about you guys, the tournament and so on.   I explained what would be needed for a rental boat, not just a 15 hp outboard on a 14 foot rowboat, that we needed trolling motors, locators, blah, blah, blah.  He’s got a couple of used, trade-in boats that he said he’d rent to any tournament member.  If he didn’t have any appropriate used boats, then he’d take a couple of the Fisher boats and rent them, then sell them as demo’s later.  He just hasn’t figured out a rental fee yet.  More about this will be coming. — Homepage of the ROFB Northwoods Classic  http://www.uglybass.com/rofbmp

Response:

Clap, Clap, Clap !!!! Another extra step taken by you Steve, and I applaud you. This was a great job on your part. Thank you . – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What’s the possiblity of both of you flying in together, and maybe Huber or Dan Duckworth could find a boat that you could rent for you and Forrest? First of all, "C’MON MOM, LET FORREST COME AND PLAY!!!"  :) Now, the possibility of a rental boat is very real.  I talked to the new owner of TrackSide Marine, my local ProCraft/Fisher dealer.  I told him about you guys, the tournament and so on.   I explained what would be needed for a rental boat, not just a 15 hp outboard on a 14 foot rowboat, that we needed trolling motors, locators, blah, blah, blah.  He’s got a couple of used, trade-in boats that he said he’d rent to any tournament member.  If he didn’t have any appropriate used boats, then he’d take a couple of the Fisher boats and rent them, then sell them as demo’s later.  He just hasn’t figured out a rental fee yet.  More about this will be coming. — Homepage of the ROFB Northwoods Classic  http://www.uglybass.com/rofbmp

– Jerry Barton http://members.home.net/jbarton248

Response:

What’s the possiblity of both of you flying in together, and maybe Huber or Dan Duckworth could find a boat that you could rent for you and Forrest?

First of all, "C’MON MOM, LET FORREST COME AND PLAY!!!"  :) Now, the possibility of a rental boat is very real.  I talked to the new owner of TrackSide Marine, my local ProCraft/Fisher dealer.  I told him about you guys, the tournament and so on.   I explained what would be needed for a rental boat, not just a 15 hp outboard on a 14 foot rowboat, that we needed trolling motors, locators, blah, blah, blah.  He’s got a couple of used, trade-in boats that he said he’d rent to any tournament member.  If he didn’t have any appropriate used boats, then he’d take a couple of the Fisher boats and rent them, then sell them as demo’s later.  He just hasn’t figured out a rental fee yet.  More about this will be coming. — Homepage of the ROFB Northwoods Classic  http://www.uglybass.com/rofbmp

Response:

That’s VERY doable I would suspect.  Didn’t even think of that possibility

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What’s the possiblity of both of you flying in together, and maybe Huber or Dan Duckworth could find a boat that you could rent for you and Forrest? Thanks old buddy!!   I am sure I will hear something from her now! <grin She has actually suggested an alternative since I last posted… she said maybe he could fly.  Because of his health condition and the likelihood that something could happen while on the road in the middle of "no where" she prefer him not be on the road with me for two days. If something, God Forbid, were to happen and we were on the road and as an example… three hours from the nearest hospital capable of treating him, it would be very tragic to say the least.  So I have to give that to her. It only makes sense that we not risk it. So… I’m working on the flying for him.  Keep the pressure coming… I’ll let you know what she has to say.   I have serious doubts that he will be able to make it at this point but I need to talk to Huber and find out what medical facilities are around there.  Personally… I think she’s overprotective, but what mother isn’t.  <grin Thanks again. I think we should all let Norma know how we feel about Forrest making it to the NWC. Myself, I think it would be a once-in-a-lifetime event for a youngster to mingle with an older generation that would only have his interest at heart and spoil the H*** out of him. At the Open tournaments that my club promotes, whenever we have a young man join his father as a fishing partner, (as young as 7yrs.old), everyone in the crowd makes sure that this young man wants for nothing. The club makes sure that he walks away with more stuff in grab bags than he can hardly carry. So Norma, if you’re reading this with Forrest, please reconsider and let us enjoy our time with him, and maybe give us a memories that we didn’t get to share with our kids when they were his age. You’re flying?   It doesn’t look like Forrest is going to be able to make the tourney afterall… you know how ex-wifes are (are you reading this So… would you like to take the back seat in my boat for this one? Heck… you could even have the front seat if you wanted it.  Let me know. Ok… What I am needing is either driving info, or flying info getting to the NWC. I’m favoring flying because it’s cheaper and less travel time. But… Where do I fly to? Also, I don’t have the web-site for it and was wondering where everyone was staying? I think Steve had a motel on alert or something. Info… Info… Info… needed. If I don’t start planning now…. I’ll go crazier by September!  :-( — http://quicksitebuilder.cnet.com/thebasspro/themmightybass/ — Jerry Barton http://members.home.net/jbarton248 — Jerry Barton http://members.home.net/jbarton248

Response:

Andrea Yates for one. — Consider Him

snip |  Personally… I think she’s | overprotective, but what mother isn’t.  <grin | | Thanks again. |

Response:

Forgive my stupidity… who is Andrea Yates?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Andrea Yates for one. — Consider Him snip |  Personally… I think she’s | overprotective, but what mother isn’t.  <grin | | Thanks again. |

Response:

Forget about her…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Forgive my stupidity… who is Andrea Yates? Andrea Yates for one. — Consider Him snip |  Personally… I think she’s | overprotective, but what mother isn’t.  <grin | | Thanks again. |

Response:

What’s the possiblity of both of you flying in together, and maybe Huber or Dan Duckworth could find a boat that you could rent for you and Forrest? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks old buddy!!   I am sure I will hear something from her now!  <grin She has actually suggested an alternative since I last posted… she said maybe he could fly.  Because of his health condition and the likelihood that something could happen while on the road in the middle of "no where" she prefer him not be on the road with me for two days. If something, God Forbid, were to happen and we were on the road and as an example… three hours from the nearest hospital capable of treating him, it would be very tragic to say the least.  So I have to give that to her.  It only makes sense that we not risk it. So… I’m working on the flying for him.  Keep the pressure coming… I’ll let you know what she has to say.   I have serious doubts that he will be able to make it at this point but I need to talk to Huber and find out what medical facilities are around there.  Personally… I think she’s overprotective, but what mother isn’t.  <grin Thanks again. I think we should all let Norma know how we feel about Forrest making it to the NWC. Myself, I think it would be a once-in-a-lifetime event for a youngster to mingle with an older generation that would only have his interest at heart and spoil the H*** out of him. At the Open tournaments that my club promotes, whenever we have a young man join his father as a fishing partner, (as young as 7yrs.old), everyone in the crowd makes sure that this young man wants for nothing. The club makes sure that he walks away with more stuff in grab bags than he can hardly carry. So Norma, if you’re reading this with Forrest, please reconsider and let us enjoy our time with him, and maybe give us a memories that we didn’t get to share with our kids when they were his age. You’re flying?   It doesn’t look like Forrest is going to be able to make the tourney afterall… you know how ex-wifes are (are you reading this So… would you like to take the back seat in my boat for this one? Heck… you could even have the front seat if you wanted it.  Let me know. Ok… What I am needing is either driving info, or flying info getting to the NWC. I’m favoring flying because it’s cheaper and less travel time. But… Where do I fly to? Also, I don’t have the web-site for it and was wondering where everyone was staying? I think Steve had a motel on alert or something. Info… Info… Info… needed. If I don’t start planning now…. I’ll go crazier by September!  :-( — http://quicksitebuilder.cnet.com/thebasspro/themmightybass/ — Jerry Barton http://members.home.net/jbarton248

– Jerry Barton http://members.home.net/jbarton248

Response:

I think we should all let Norma know how we feel about Forrest making it to the NWC. Myself, I think it would be a once-in-a-lifetime event for a youngster to mingle with an older generation that would only have his interest at heart and spoil the H*** out of him. At the Open tournaments that my club promotes, whenever we have a young man join his father as a fishing partner, (as young as 7yrs.old), everyone in the crowd makes sure that this young man wants for nothing. The club makes sure that he walks away with more stuff in grab bags than he can hardly carry. So Norma, if you’re reading this with Forrest, please reconsider and let us enjoy our time with him, and maybe give us a memories that we didn’t get to share with our kids when they were his age. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You’re flying?   It doesn’t look like Forrest is going to be able to make the tourney afterall… you know how ex-wifes are (are you reading this So… would you like to take the back seat in my boat for this one?  Heck… you could even have the front seat if you wanted it.  Let me know. Ok… What I am needing is either driving info, or flying info getting to the NWC. I’m favoring flying because it’s cheaper and less travel time. But… Where do I fly to? Also, I don’t have the web-site for it and was wondering where everyone was staying? I think Steve had a motel on alert or something. Info… Info… Info… needed. If I don’t start planning now…. I’ll go crazier by September!  :-( — http://quicksitebuilder.cnet.com/thebasspro/themmightybass/

– Jerry Barton http://members.home.net/jbarton248

Response:

Sure wish that I was closer, Charles, we’d be hittin’ them. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sounds good to me! Sorry to hear that Forrest can’t make it, must be school conflicts I’m sure. Are you nearby Wisconsin? After doing the math, I’ve decided that flying there would be cheaper than two days of driving and renting a motel room somewhere in between. Then you can taking in account all of the stops that I’ll be making for food…WOW! Sure, a person has to eat, but being on the road that long without my computer, what else would I be thinking about. hehe… Hey! I have never flown before either, so even though this may be off-topic, I’m hoping that some of you experienced flyers can answer this for me… Is there a limit on how much luggage a person can bring? I’m only talking about a couple of rod carriers, a couple of boxes for the rest of my gear, and a couple of bags for clothing. Really… I have no idea how to even begin. Guess I’ll have to do come research on this, but all of this work that’s been piled on me this week is slowing my "fun time" planning down a bit. I am going to say the *heck with it* on thursday night, and go try to catch that millioin dollar fish that’s been placed in the Priest!!!  Kris, you joining me? You’re flying?   It doesn’t look like Forrest is going to be able to make the tourney afterall… you know how ex-wifes are (are you reading this So… would you like to take the back seat in my boat for this one? Heck… you could even have the front seat if you wanted it.  Let me know.

– Jerry Barton http://members.home.net/jbarton248

Response:

Sounds good to me! Sorry to hear that Forrest can’t make it, must be school conflicts I’m sure. Are you nearby Wisconsin? After doing the math, I’ve decided that flying there would be cheaper than two days of driving and renting a motel room somewhere in between. Then you can taking in account all of the stops that I’ll be making for food…WOW! Sure, a person has to eat, but being on the road that long without my computer, what else would I be thinking about. hehe… Hey! I have never flown before either, so even though this may be off-topic, I’m hoping that some of you experienced flyers can answer this for me… Is there a limit on how much luggage a person can bring? I’m only talking about a couple of rod carriers, a couple of boxes for the rest of my gear, and a couple of bags for clothing. Really… I have no idea how to even begin. Guess I’ll have to do come research on this, but all of this work that’s been piled on me this week is slowing my "fun time" planning down a bit. I am going to say the *heck with it* on thursday night, and go try to catch that millioin dollar fish that’s been placed in the Priest!!!  Kris, you joining me?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You’re flying?   It doesn’t look like Forrest is going to be able to make the tourney afterall… you know how ex-wifes are (are you reading this So… would you like to take the back seat in my boat for this one? Heck… you could even have the front seat if you wanted it.  Let me know.

Response:

Ok… What I am needing is either driving info, or flying info getting to the NWC. I’m favoring flying because it’s cheaper and less travel time. But… Where do I fly to? Also, I don’t have the web-site for it and was wondering where everyone was staying? I think Steve had a motel on alert or something. Info… Info… Info… needed. If I don’t start planning now…. I’ll go crazier by September!  :-( — http://quicksitebuilder.cnet.com/thebasspro/themmightybass/

Response:

You’re flying?   It doesn’t look like Forrest is going to be able to make the tourney afterall… you know how ex-wifes are (are you reading this So… would you like to take the back seat in my boat for this one?  Heck… you could even have the front seat if you wanted it.  Let me know.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ok… What I am needing is either driving info, or flying info getting to the NWC. I’m favoring flying because it’s cheaper and less travel time. But… Where do I fly to? Also, I don’t have the web-site for it and was wondering where everyone was staying? I think Steve had a motel on alert or something. Info… Info… Info… needed. If I don’t start planning now…. I’ll go crazier by September!  :-( — http://quicksitebuilder.cnet.com/thebasspro/themmightybass/

Response:

Question:

Right now, I feel like a well-meaning liberal in the French Revolution’s Reign of Terror: someone about to get his head chopped off. Well, c’est la vie. Please read the exchange of email between Ms. Birkholm and myself. I think it will suggest the rejoicing over L’affaire Rupe should be tempered with some restraint, not taking a number 10 wt rod to a minnow. We not talking John Birch Society, as far as racism goes, or Amazon, as far as professional websites. FAOL came out of the initiative of two amateurs, like much of what is best of the Internet, and should not be allowed to die ignored any more than Old Rupe’s remarks should have gone unnoticed in the first place. Let’s keep some sense of proportion. We all get into unintentional trouble because we don’t know how to handle it. I have experienced and seen enough racism in my life not to recognize genuine evil which should be stamped out. I hope enough ROFF members will second what I’m saying to perhaps give the Birkholms room to reconsider.

   Dear Laurence,   Thanks for your comments – right now I am seriously considering closing the   website.   It seems unreal and incredible that people calling us racist and inciting murder do   not   realize the seeds of hate they planted with everyone they contacted – and that   includes   all of our sponsors.   The whole issue happened because our editor, my husband Jim (JC) had fallen,   broke   6 ribs and punctured a lung.  He tried to do his job, but the Codine which allowed   him to   sit at the computer at all obviously obstructed his judgement.  We apologized   publicly   on Monday, and the disclaimed was attached to the article as soon as we received   it   from rupe.  The article has been removed, and the hate mail to us personally   continues.   We are now listed on some web list server as "racists and murders" and have   become   a target.  I don’t know if I can continue to produce the volume of work we do   every week   with this happening.  The haters out there, some of whom were/are our readers,   have   broken my heart.  Hard to produce a work of passion when your heart isn’t in it.   If you can think of a fix, let me know.  I don’t think there is one.   Regards,   Deanna   Below is the result of your feedback form.  It was submitted by   () on Sunday, December 5, 1999 at 11:52:10 —–     name: Lawrence Rottersman     address: 2191 NW Glisan St. #206     City: Portland     State: OR     Zip: 97210     Country: usa     tel: 503-220-5081     fax: 503-220-5081       Topic of this contact: Comment on an Article     Comments: Mr. and Mrs. Birkholm: I was one of, maybe, two or three, who   stuck up for you during the Old Rupe issue. So I hope you will at least   think about the following:     As an expublicist, I can tell you what you already know. you’re clumsy at   public relations. But that doesn’t make you racists.     Don’t give into the people who are gloating and displaying your head as some   kind of trophy. You have a really good site, the best  I have seen on fly   fishing, and one of the best, period.     Keep going. Everybody runs into bumps. Again, as a publicist, I can assure   you that today’s news that’s exorcising everybody, will be dimly remembered   tomorrow, and probably not at all the day after.     (If you do change your mind, it might not be a bad idea–I say very   respectfully–to get someone with editorial experience to look over the copy   submitted, for taste as well as clarity. Everybody needs someone to look   over their shoulder for the gaffes we all make.)       —–     REMOTE_HOST: i48-07-12.pdx.du.teleport.com   REMOTE_ADDR: 216.26.3.140   HTTP_USER_AGENT: Mozilla/4.7 [en] (WinNT; I)

Response:

Ok I know I am a big bad evil bogeyman.  Whatever. Copy of my last e-mail exchange with Ms.Birkholm. Last post dated Sunday 05.dec. 1999  21.05 PM Deanna, after all this you are still somehow missing the point. This is not a personal thing. You published an inflammatory and racist article, you refused to listen to protests, and the disclaimer and the other stuff were just too little too late.  This was the wrong thing to do.  I do not for one minute believe you or JC are racists, or murderers, or even Rupe for that matter, although the whole mess is mainly his fault, what I think is however irrelevant. You published the damn article, and then supported it.  This was a grave error of judgement, which was pointed out to you almost immediately by a large number of people.  You did not even reply to these people. Under duress from your sponsors, and presumably other pressure from readers and contributors,  you finally retracted, apologised grudgingly and removed the article, agreeing that it was inflammatory, Deanna, nearly  a whole week went by with people you know and like, and who know and like you, a lot of readers, and other contributors complaining daily, and you did nothing sensible to stem the rising tide of anger and outrage caused by the article. I am afraid I just can not understand this. Deanna, I can appreciate you being under considerable stress because of all this, and I really do feel extremely sorry that it happened, but I have even more trouble trying to figure out why you do not realise why.  I doubt if any of those people who protested  wished to damage you personally, I certainly did not. They just wanted to see that racist crap removed or at least an assurance that it was not supported by FAOL.You did not give that assurance, and you continued to support the article, quashing and suppressing the protests on your boards, I presume mainly because of your loyalty to Old Rupe.  While I can identify with this, and even admire  your stubborn loyalty to some degree, it was misplaced here, and a serious mistake. You are a public figure, the well known and respected publisher and editor of a major online fishing magazine, surely you did not imagine that there would be no protest ? Or that people would not take you to task ?  Right thinking people will not tolerate this sort of thing, you are a right thinking person normally, what on earth influenced you to do such a crazy and dangerous thing ?  Did you just have a blind spot or a blackout here ? You threw a lighted match into a barrel of gas, and now you are wondering why the damn thing has exploded ?  Come on,  you are far more intelligent than that. I am well known for my anti-racist views, I imagine you would have known this, there has been more than enough publicity about it.  Surely you did not think I would remain silent in view of such blatant racism ? You know my views and principles on many things, you can not possibly imagine that I could ignore something like this on a site with which I was so closely associated ? I sent several letters asking people to retract their protests and e-mail the sponsors immediately the article was retracted.  As I already said elsewhere though, words are like bullets, once fired they can not be unfired. The only reason for this whole mess was that article. With it gone you have at least a chance. I beg you also to realise that there was nothing personal in any of this from my side, and also that I was certainly not the only person who was outraged by the article.  Most people carried out their protests without any assistance whatsoever. If I were in your present position I would do the following.  I would explain in my next editorial that I was under considerable stress due to my husband having had a serious accident, because of this I relied too heavily on a friend, and the result was that this inflammatory article somehow crept through unedited, not wanting to upset the friend, and out of a sense of loyalty, too little was done to remedy the problem and it just got out of hand. I assume this is more or less what happened anyway. Apologise for your honest mistake and carry on. I am sure you will receive more than enough support if you apologise forthrightly to your readers and sponsors, explaining the circumstances. It grieves me considerably that you have been subjected to such extreme personal distress, I hope that this soon lifts, and that you will put this behind you and carry on. Do not give up because of one stupid mistake. I think people will understand if you tell them the truth, and you will not lose as much as you think now because of it. Sincerely and with great personal regret and understanding for your distress and bitterness. Mike Connor —–Urspr

Question:

If we weren’t all filtering you out Ken, you’d get a response! (Just kidding – I enjoy all the controversy here!) David

I tend to agree.  I get as sick of George as anyone else, but it wouldn’t seem right to be missing 20% of the traffic on ROFF.  Besides, I get more laughs out of George’s posts than the rest of the board put together. — Levi I have been through some terrible things in my life – some of which actually happened.  –Mark Twain – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ken Janik wrote(edited by lf to duck filters): Paul,   I found a partial solution to the problem, I filter all of George’s posts.  I found them abusive and insulting.  Some of what he says comes through on other peoples posts but not enough to be irritating.  As for stopping George’s Spamming, it will never happen. I just read up some on filtering in my newsreader.  I don’t know how similar other people’s killfiles are, but for "trn", I added the following filters to my killfile… /[G|g]iink/h:j Marked all messages as unread. Had 809 new messages (from the past 1 or 2 weeks) Filtering removed 164 posts or 20%!!!!! The filters above catch those two words anywhere in the message so those people replying to George get filtered too as long as they leave his login Come to think of it, I won’t even see my message. Oh well, hope somebody finds this useful. Later,      - Ken —

Response:

If we weren’t all filtering you out Ken, you’d get a response! (Just kidding – I enjoy all the controversy here!) David – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Paul,   I found a partial solution to the problem, I filter all of George’s posts.  I found them abusive and insulting.  Some of what he says comes through on other peoples posts but not enough to be irritating.  As for stopping George’s Spamming, it will never happen. I just read up some on filtering in my newsreader.  I don’t know how similar other people’s killfiles are, but for "trn", I added the following filters to my killfile… /[G|g]ink/h:j /[B|b]astard/h:j Marked all messages as unread. Had 809 new messages (from the past 1 or 2 weeks) Filtering removed 164 posts or 20%!!!!! The filters above catch those two words anywhere in the message so those people replying to George get filtered too as long as they leave his login Come to think of it, I won’t even see my message. Oh well, hope somebody finds this useful. Later,      - Ken —

Response:

Paul,    I found a partial solution to the problem, I filter all of George’s posts.  I found them abusive and insulting.  Some of what he says comes through on other peoples posts but not enough to be irritating.  As for stopping George’s Spamming, it will never happen. Ernie Harrison See Ernie’s Fly-Fishing Stuff:   http://home.pacbell.net/ernie2 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – << I see that many of the posts are about George’s Bastard rods, and I don’t just mean comments and reviews, but blatant promotion and a continuing onslaught of messages from George to his customers of which no one but themselves could be interested. I agree. Enough is enough. Why is George allowed to continue "spamming" this group? It has been tolerated in the past because he conned us into believing that we were helping him develop his rod. It has been developed and is in production and is being sold and shipped. Why do you still tolerate the spam from George?

Response:

Paul,   I found a partial solution to the problem, I filter all of George’s posts.  I found them abusive and insulting.  Some of what he says comes through on other peoples posts but not enough to be irritating.  As for stopping George’s Spamming, it will never happen.

I just read up some on filtering in my newsreader.  I don’t know how similar other people’s killfiles are, but for "trn", I added the following filters to my killfile… /[G|g]ink/h:j /[B|b]astard/h:j Marked all messages as unread. Had 809 new messages (from the past 1 or 2 weeks) Filtering removed 164 posts or 20%!!!!! The filters above catch those two words anywhere in the message so those people replying to George get filtered too as long as they leave his login Come to think of it, I won’t even see my message. Oh well, hope somebody finds this useful. Later,      - Ken —

Response:

<< I see that many of the posts are about George’s Bastard rods, and I don’t just mean comments and reviews, but blatant promotion and a continuing onslaught of messages from George to his customers of which no one but themselves could be interested.

I agree. Enough is enough. Why is George allowed to continue "spamming" this group? It has been tolerated in the past because he conned us into believing that we were helping him develop his rod. It has been developed and is in production and is being sold and shipped. Why do you still tolerate the spam from George?

Response:

This newsgroup has been hijacked. After returning after more than a year’s absence, I see that many of the posts are about George’s Bastard rods, and I don’t just mean comments and reviews, but blatant promotion and a continuing onslaught of messages from George to his customers of which no one but themselves could be interested.

Speaking as someone who has bought a Bastard Rod, paid for it, and likes it (thereby establishing my credentials as a non-George-hater), I have to agree. George, enough already with the Bastard Rods. Michael — www.geocities.com/yosemite/falls/3363 Before you buy.

Response:

This newsgroup has been hijacked. After returning after more than a year’s absence, I see that many of the posts are about George’s Bastard rods, and I don’t just mean comments and reviews, but blatant promotion and a continuing onslaught of messages from George to his customers of which no one but themselves could be interested. I understand that George developed these rods with the help of many from this newsgroup, but at this point, isn’t an occasional reminder about George’s chat site enough? This is not to diminish the value of George’s other posts, which stand on their own merit, but just to say that enough is enough in regards to the Bastard rods, at least in my humble opinion. Respectfully, Charlie Miller

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Question:

I CAN GET THOUSANDS OF BITES BUT I JUST CANT SEEM TO HOOK THEM CAN YOU HELP ME. IF SO PLEASE E-MAIL ME.

Response:

Is it possible to turn your caps lock off?  In Usenet, this is considered shouting. My advice is to always keep a taught line.  Make sure your hooks are sharp.  I test them by scraping the point across my fingernail.  If they’re not sharp, buy a sharpener.  Different species require different technique.  For example, if you’re fishing for bass you want to set the hook quickly because if you don’t they’ll likely spit it out.  But if you’re fishing for trout you’d be better off letting them swallow the bait before setting the hook.  I use Powerbait frequently for trout and if I set the treble hook too soon it often pulls right out of the bait and doesn’t hook the fish.  But if I let them take it and run a bit, the chance of a successful set is greatly improved.  If you’re thinking that the trout will spit out the bait, I’ve only had that happen twice.  Yet I’ve lost plenty by setting the hook too early. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I CAN GET THOUSANDS OF BITES BUT I JUST CANT SEEM TO HOOK THEM CAN YOU HELP ME. IF SO PLEASE E-MAIL ME.

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Two words:  SMALLER HOOKS

Response:

Guess if I was getting thousands of bites and couldn’t hook them, I would shout too !!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I CAN GET THOUSANDS OF BITES BUT I JUST CANT SEEM TO HOOK THEM CAN YOU HELP ME. IF SO PLEASE E-MAIL ME. Please don’t use caps it means you’re shouting. Two things you might try.  First, make sure the hooks are very sharp – I try to resharpen after each fish, if I have time…especially when fly fishing. Second, snap the barbs off the hooks so they will penetrate easier.  This also makes it easier to release any fish  you wish to let go, without as much damage. Good luck, Max Max Whittington Investigations Beaverton (Portland), Oregon http://www.inetarena.com/~mwi

Response:

I CAN GET THOUSANDS OF BITES BUT I JUST CANT SEEM TO HOOK THEM CAN YOU HELP ME. IF SO PLEASE E-MAIL ME.

You need to give a little more info here… what are you fishing for? what lures / bait are you using?  different techniques work on different fish.

Response:

I CAN GET THOUSANDS OF BITES BUT I JUST CANT SEEM TO HOOK THEM CAN YOU HELP ME. IF SO PLEASE E-MAIL ME.

Please don’t use caps it means you’re shouting. Two things you might try.  First, make sure the hooks are very sharp – I try to resharpen after each fish, if I have time…especially when fly fishing. Second, snap the barbs off the hooks so they will penetrate easier.  This also makes it easier to release any fish  you wish to let go, without as much damage. Good luck, Max Max Whittington Investigations Beaverton (Portland), Oregon http://www.inetarena.com/~mwi

Response:

I CAN GET THOUSANDS OF BITES BUT I JUST CANT SEEM TO HOOK THEM CAN YOU HELP ME. IF SO PLEASE E-MAIL ME.

Have you ever considered that they might be just very small fish that’s trying to steal your bait? — Andrew Tang Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia — Remove _Nospam to send e-mail.

Response:

Question:

I’d like to know which leader to use when fishing on lakes-reservoirs with dry and wet fly.

Response:

I’d like to know which leader to use when fishing on lakes-reservoirs with dry and wet fly.

I would use longer leaders on lakes, ranging from 9 to 15 foot on floating lines. Tippets size will depend on conditions and fly size. For dries tippet from 5x to 7x should fit most situations. Wet flies are usually fished on 3x to 5x tippets. This is general info that should help someone that is getting started, not you experts. On sinking lines in still water I would try 7 1/2 to 9 foot leaders. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

Response:

I’d like to know which leader to use when fishing on lakes-reservoirs with dry and wet fly. It depends entirely on the body of water and who lives there.  If it’s large, stocked Res and you intend to use large streamers or buggers on sinking line, I tend to use shorter, heavier leaders.  I’ve used 3 foot leaders tapered to, oh, 10 and 12 lb test and have been very successful in such situations.         On still water rich with natural trout food and wild fish, especially the small stuff, your success will improve greatly with a longer, much lighter leader.  10 – 12  feet to 5X is pretty standard fishing wet. For dries this would be a minimum, and an additional length of 6X will

Response:

Question:

I have a few more beginner questions for everyone.  You’ve been very helpful in the past, and I appreciate that. After sending a dry fly over a trout, and getting a strike but not being able to set the hook (I need to work on that a bit), I wonder if the trout will in general strike again on the same fly, or does should one try elsewhere, since the fish just encountered a hook and spat it out.  Comments? Second.  While looking at a trout this weekend, I noticed a flap on its face, between what I would call the "lip" and "cheek".  This seems to be a natural feature, but I haven’t seen (or noticed) it on other types of fish.  Can someone tell my why it’s there, and what the trout uses it for? Thanks db   — ****** Derek Berwald

Response:

After sending a dry fly over a trout, and getting a strike but not being able to set the hook (I need to work on that a bit), I wonder if the trout will in general strike again on the same fly, or does should one try elsewhere, since the fish just encountered a hook and spat it out.  Comments?

Hi Derek, Yes a fish will come back for a second shot on some occasions.  It may not have spit the hook our.  It’s possible you were too fast on the strike and pulled it away at the last minute.  If you are striking fast this could be the problem.  To set a hook, it’s always better to raise your rod rather than yank it into the next county.  Your success could very well go up. Regarding you next question, I’ll leave than for one of the experts in that areana. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

Response:

After sending a dry fly over a trout, and getting a strike but not being able to set the hook (I need to work on that a bit), I wonder if the trout will in general strike again on the same fly, or does should one try elsewhere, since the fish just encountered a hook and spat it out.  Comments?

The dumb, backcountry, cutts I was catching last weekend in a lake deep in the Wind Rivers would not only hit my wooly bugger more than once, they would sometimes hit it after being hooked and played for a second or two!  On the other hand, they wouldn’t hit a dry fly twice. More "educated" street-wise fish won’t hit the wooly bugger twice. Fish will often hit bait repeatedly. — -Wayne Trzyna

Response:

Yes a fish will come back for a second shot on some occasions.  It may not have spit the hook our.  It’s possible you were too fast on the strike and pulled it away at the last minute.  If you are striking fast this could be the problem.  To set a hook, it’s always better to raise your rod rather than yank it into the next county.  Your success could very well go up.

I have yanked more flys away from fish than actually hooked up fish. I get really bad on ponds where you can watch the fish come up and take the fly (or nymph). carl carl

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Question:

A friend of mine just found two pairs of neoprene waders in someone’s garbage.  They had been cut off at the knee with a pair of scissors, but they were cut pretty cleanly, and he has all of the the boot sections. The waders are in mint condition otherwise, and I am of the opinion that if we take them to a seamstress she could sew the legs back on and make the seam waterproof. Has anyone out there ever had to make repairs of a similar (if not so drastic) nature?  Any and all opinions/suggestions are welcome.                                 Thanks,                                 Michael Frank

Response:

A friend of mine just found two pairs of neoprene waders in someone’s garbage.  They had been cut off at the knee with a pair of scissors, but they were cut pretty cleanly, and he has all of the the boot sections. The waders are in mint condition otherwise, and I am of the opinion that if we take them to a seamstress she could sew the legs back on and make the seam waterproof.

Hi Frank-    Clean the edges of the cut and put a liberal coat of Barge cement on each edge and allow to almost dry. Sqeeze the joint together firmly with a pair of non serrated pliers. Allow to dry for a day then paint over the seam (inside and out) with Aquaseal thinned with Cotol. The joint will be stronger than the fabric itself. DO NOT SEW!!!    Ralph —

Response:

writes: A friend of mine just found two pairs of neoprene waders in someone’s garbage.  They had been cut off at the knee with a pair of scissors, but they were cut pretty cleanly, and he has all of the the boot sections. The waders are in mint condition otherwise, and I am of the opinion that if we take them to a seamstress she could sew the legs back on and make the seam waterproof.

DON’T SEW them together!!!  If you do they will always leak.  Any thread you use to sew with will continually open up holes in the neoprene as the waders are used..  That’s why the first neoprene waders didn’t work years ago.   Aquaseal will put the pieces back together very effectively.  Use masking tape on the inside of the leg while applying to keep the Aqua seal from coming through and you’re waders will work fine.  If you forget the tape the aquaseal will glue the insides of the legs together and you will not be able to get it apart.                          Good Luck,                                 Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Schools

Response:

writes: It depends on how the sewing is done… If they are just surface sitches on one side and then glued, it helps with the strength and alignment. Sitches all the way through will cause problems.

This is true.  It is what is known as *blind stitching*  which adds great strength to a pair of waders.  Blind stitching goes through the nylon top layer into the neoprene of the first piece then into the neoprene of the second piece and back up through the nylon top layer of the second piece. However blind stitching is done with a special machine with a curved needle and to my knowledge this would be real unusual to find with a seamstress as it is unecessary to use blind stitching with "normal " clothes.  Stitching entirely through the neoprene ruins it.                                                            Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Schools

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Question:

Among your goals you forgot.. "protect your feet from hazards of the river and trail".   No sandal can do this without neoprene socks, and neoprene boots are less nuisance than neoprene socks plus something else. Since my Patagonia reef walkers (sock top, felt sole, rubber caps for toe and heel) died, I’ve been using neoprene boots all summer.  When my feet get warm I put them in the water.  When it’s very cold I use neoprene socks under neoprene boots … Mary Shaw

Response:

I’m looking for suggestions on whitewater footwear? A couple of people have suggested rock climbing shoes.  Has anyone (anyone who doesn’t work at SGI, that is tried this?  How much do these cost?  How well do they grip both wet and dry rocks?  Are they comfortable enough to wear on long trips (both long days and overnighters)?

As someone who climbs and kayaks, I would highly discourage the use of rock shoes for kayaking.  Rock shoes have almost no traction on wet rocks.  They are tight and uncomfortable, and they would probably disintegrate under the wet conditions encountered on the river. After experimenting with a number of solutions (Aqua Socks, Wetsuit booties, TEVA sandals with neoprene socks) I have settled on the following solution: neoprene booties with felt soles (ala fly fishing waders).  They give good traction on wet rocks, OK traction on dry rocks, and are comfortable to wear all day in a kayak.  They are available from a number of suppliers – I got mine from Nortwest River Supplies without the felt soles, then glued on the felt soles after I found the ribbed rubber soles to not offer enough traction on wet and mossy rocks. Your mileage may vary. Kurt Bittner       ]"It is not Nature-as-Chaos which threatens us, but the

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There was a rather stupid article about this recently in Outdoor magazine. They seemed to favor manufacturers who advertised in the magazine, rather than those with good products.  For example, they liked Timberland sandals, despite leather that wouldn’t survive constant wetting, and flimsy velcro that would come loose even in a class II swim. Whitewater footwear must meet a variety of often contradictory goals:  o Sometimes it must be warm, sometimes it must be cool and dry fast.    Neoprene booties meet the first goal, but are terrible in hot weather,    especially for side hikes.  Soggy sneakers feel awful by end of day.    Only Teva-style sandals with optional neoprene socks meet both goals.  o Easy to put on and take off, but must be secure during a big "swim".    Neoprene booties with side zippers are the best compromise, but the    zipper can fail and cold water penetrates there.  If you can tuck in    the rear velcro, toe-loop Tevas are more secure in a swim than Teva    Universals, which have three velcro sections to come loose.  o Good traction on wet rocks, good traction for climbing on side hikes.    Felt soles are best on wet rocks, whereas tread patterns are best on    side hikes.  A good compromise would be flat stealth rubber.  Sneakers    or light hiking boots with wetsocks are a good choice.  Oddly enough,    Tevas have better all-around traction after the tread wears down.  o Stiffness and lateral support for hiking, flexibility for kayaking.    Neoprene booties are terrible on long hikes, but great for footpegs.    Toe-loop Tevas provide more lateral support than sandals that surround    the foot, but 2-toe wetsocks are neither warm nor comfortable, plus    toe loops are not adjustable. The Teva 5.10 Approach seems to be the best product available, but costs around $80.  Available either toe-loop or around-the-foot. It has buckles instead of velcro, and stealth rubber soles, unfortunately with pattern. Stealth rubber wears out fast.  Cheapskates can always have regular Tevas resoled, and use safety pins on the velcro. Some guides like Alp sandals, but I hate them.  They’re very difficult to put on, and every time I take a swim, the front strap comes off.  The soles are very slippery on sand-covered dry rock.  They’re much better now that the tread has worn off but the nylon straps are badly frayed after only two seasons. Sierra Hi-Trax sandals are worth looking at.  They have buckles instead of velcro, appear to wear longer than any alternative, and cost much less. I haven’t tried them yet.  The soles are patterned rubber.  Several designs are available, including toe-loop and diagonal strap models.

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Best thing I’ve found is neoprene boots with felt soles. The felt is the same stuff fishermen use on the soles of their waders to provide good footing on slippery rocks. For summer, I used to wear the Patagonia one-toed things with felt sole and a sock-like top that came up about as high as an athletic sock.  Unfortunately, I haven’t been able to find them since Tevas and the water slippers came out.  Now I wear the neoprene/felt boots all year. Mary Shaw

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Prijon makes a kayaking shoe which I hear is awfully expensive ($150?). They’re red/yellow and look really funny, and I was way jealous of my companions who had them on our last portage fest. cheers, scott smay

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 (Jon Beck) writes:  (David Elliott) writes:

  I’m looking for suggestions on whitewater footwear?    Nothing I’ve ever used comes close to Tevas. I use the original model  with the thong between 1st and 2nd toes, as they’re much more secure  on the foot. I’ve used Tevas for years but just got a pair of Alps at REI.  They stay on better and seem just as sticky.  The price was about the same. bob maccione..

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I’m looking for suggestions on whitewater footwear? Nothing I’ve ever used comes close to Tevas. I use the original model with the thong between 1st and 2nd toes, as they’re much more secure on the foot. In the summer, I wear them alone. In cold weather, I wear one-toed neoprene socks from Northwest River Supply under them. In *cold* weather, I wear them over my sewn-in drysuit feet. Jon Beck, SoRReL Project GRA

        I prefer ALPS sandals, since they have adjustable plastic buckles rather than Velcro.  The Velcro on my Tevas would give up when they got covered in sand or mud (fills up the loops).  Also, the Velcro will pull loose when you rub the foot against something, or have to swim/wade strong currents.  Your mileage may vary. — Brad Whitehurst    |   Aerospace Research Lab

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What about Tevas (or clones)?  Actual Tevas have soles made by 5.10, my clones (Boulder Sandal Company) are still pretty good.

I’ve tried my Tevas in the boat, but I’m not happy with them for two reasons: 1. The soles don’t flex very much (compared to the wetsuit booties I usually use) making it difficult to maneuver my feet around.  It’s not easy to get them off the footbraces and into the "rest" position I use for drifting. But that’s not much of a big deal compared to… 2. I’m concerned that the straps on the Tevas might catch on the footbraces at just the wrong time.  If I had bulkhead-style footbraces, this wouldn’t be an issue; but with the Yakima pegs it could be a problem. —Rsk

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I prefer the neoprene boots.  I understand that the instructors at NOC like the Alps for much of what they do, except for kayaking.  They apparently are concerned with snagging the straps on footbraces, tree limbs, etc.

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David Elliott: I’m looking for suggestions on whitewater footwear? My current favorite is the Deep See zippered boot ..

This is what I use.  They work great.  I have the Coral Kings. If its real slippery rock, go barefoot. A couple of people have suggested rock climbing shoes.

Don’t work when they are wet, and are expensive ~100 clams. Ilana Stern: …and not enough of a sole [rock climbing shoes] to push against footpegs.

This doesn’t wash, I kayak barefoot all the time. What about Tevas (or clones)?

Soles don’t bend very well to fit into kayaks.  I find them uncomfortable in kayaks, but wear them all the time otehrwise. –Chris

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I’m looking for suggestions on whitewater footwear? A couple of people have suggested rock climbing shoes.  Has anyone (anyone who doesn’t work at SGI, that is tried this?  How much do these cost?  How well do they grip both wet and dry rocks?  Are they comfortable enough to wear on long trips (both long days and overnighters)?

Ack!  Expensive, uncomfortable, and not enough of a sole to push against footpegs.  I suppose Five-Tennies would be a possibility — they’re snug sneakers made by the climbing shoe company 5.10, and they have a sole made of climbing-shoe rubber.  Dry rocks they grip fine, wet rocks…a bit better than sneakers, but not great.  They are about $58-$70 depending on sales.  By way of contrast, climbing shoes, which strike me as being the ultimate in inappropriate footwear for rafting or kayaking, are rarely less than $100.   Any other suggestions?  It might be useful to put together a chart based on weather and river conditions, so include that type of information.

What about Tevas (or clones)?  Actual Tevas have soles made by 5.10, my clones (Boulder Sandal Company) are still pretty good. I wear them over Ragg socks when it’s cold (I have the kind that don’t stick something between toes).   — /        Ilana Stern DoD#009 | Whoever first said, "Things are seldom as they

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I’m looking for suggestions on whitewater footwear? My current favorite is the Deep See zippered boot (similar to the Ocean Edge, but better for us folks with wide feet), which is great until you need to scout in slippery gorges.  I even have a larger pair of these that I can use in the colder season when I need to wear extra socks. I’ve also tried standard athletic shoes with various types of socks (from polyester to neoprene), and these are no better for me on rocks or in the river, and aren’t as warm to me. A couple of people have suggested rock climbing shoes.  Has anyone (anyone who doesn’t work at SGI, that is tried this?  How much do these cost?  How well do they grip both wet and dry rocks?  Are they comfortable enough to wear on long trips (both long days and overnighters)? Any other suggestions?  It might be useful to put together a chart based on weather and river conditions, so include that type of information.

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Question:

Serious question; what’s the difference besides price?

For one, the no-see-um netting doesn’t! * Todd Merriman – Software Toolz, Inc. +1 706 889 8264  * Maintainer of the * * 8030 Pooles Mill Dr., Ball Ground, GA 30107-9610      * Software          * * UUCP: …!emory!slammer!toolz!todd                    * Entrepreneur’s    * Never knock on Death’s door. Ring the bell and run away.  Death really hates that.

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Serious question; what’s the difference besides price?  I’ve never done

One weekend in Colorado we were sleeping in a NF tent went the wind must have started blowing 80 mph.  It felt like it was going to lift us up in the tent.  The ends of the poles flared where a plug is inserted that fits into a grommet.   The tent was 5 years old.  I sent the poles back and got new ones FREE. A K-Mart tent would have been shredded. I’ve also broken a zipper on an OLD NF daypack.  They fixed the zipper and fixed up some fraying edges for FREE. We stuck a new NF sleeping bag in the dryer when the heat switch didn’t work on the "NO HEAT" position.  It melted a 4"x6" hole in the bag.  NF repaired it and added down for $20. And like other people said they don’t leak. I use gear hard and will only buy from NF and similar companies. Mort

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I am testing my posting capabilities.

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Serious question; what’s the difference besides price?  I’ve never done One weekend in Colorado we were sleeping in a NF tent went the wind must have started blowing 80 mph.  It felt like it was going to lift us up in the tent.  The ends of the poles flared where a plug is inserted that fits into a grommet.  

I spent a week on the outer banks ( North Carolina ) with a ‘kmart’ type dome tent.  One night a storm hit with winds in the 40-60 mph range.  All night long I heard car doors slamming and vehicles leaving,  the tent flexed and got a little water in it but withstood the storm.  In the morning there were 3 other campers left in the campground ( about 30 people left during the night ).  However years later while airing the tent in my backyard one corner of the fly came loose ( the elastic cord was shot by then ) and my dog ( a puppy then ) proceded to destroy the tent.   bob

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One night a storm hit with winds in the 40-60 mph range.  All night long I heard car doors slamming and vehicles leaving,  the tent flexed and got a little water in it but withstood the storm.  In the morning there were 3 other campers left in the campground ( about 30 people left during the night ).

It was probably the people, not their tents, that broke down. — -Wayne Trzyna

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 Serious question; what’s the difference besides price?  I’ve never done  serious backcountry camping (yet), but I’ve camped out in some fairly  cold places.  On my last cross-country trip, I woke up in the morning  when the temperature was freezing, but I’d been perfectly warm in my  $40 K-mart tent and my $30 Coleman rectangular sleeping bag.    lesson one: You get what you pay for.    The main reason a NF tent cost more is the quality of the materials    used. The poles are 7075 aircraft alluminium not cheap fiberglass    that will snap on you. The biggest part of the cost is the poles.    Survival factor: If my life is on the line in a blizzard at 12,000    feet for four days I dont think I want to trust a $40.00 tent, if it    fails you die. If you don’t venture into these parts then a K-Mart    tent is fine.    One other reason is that The North Face will stand by it’s products    for life. Even if you muck it up yourself they will fix it for a small    charge.    One tent failure in dangerous weather will teach you this lesson,    trust me, I’ve been there…. Certified Gearhead:            Tim

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Serious question; what’s the difference besides price?  I’ve never done serious backcountry camping (yet), but I’ve camped out in some fairly cold places.  On my last cross-country trip, I woke up in the morning when the temperature was freezing, but I’d been perfectly warm in my $40 K-mart tent and my $30 Coleman rectangular sleeping bag. Granted, I got soaked when it rained the next day, but I hadn’t put on the rainfly. —                 -ed falk, sun microsystems         "Towards the end, the smell of their air began to change"

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Serious question; what’s the difference besides price?   Well, I owned a $40 tent from a large department store not unlike K-mart, and now own a $150 tent from a chain not unlike North Face. The big differents  is rain. The 40 buck tent leaked even with the rainfly.  So far not one drop has ever gotten into the $150 tent.

I have a dome tent that I bought on sale from JC Penny for $35.  It’s rain fly does cover the whole tent.  I’ve seam-sealed it and it is reasonably water proof from above.  The floor isn’t — I learned the hard way about that.  I put a tarp down under the tent that was bigger than the tent and it channeled water under the tent that saoked through and into my sleeping bag. But I’ve been in nasty storms and it’s held out well.  My wife has made a winter-season fly with a vestibule for the tent, altho’ it wouldn’t hold up with a lot of snow on it. Is it as good as a North Face?  Of course not.  But it works for me, holds my wife, myself, our dog and our boots and not much else.  And it fit our budget. — Are you thinking of telephones and managers and where you got to be at noon?

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Here is the history of a K-mart tent, to illustrate its strengths and weaknesses:    It was made in Tiawan.  $50 in the early 70’s.  Made of a single layer of coated nylon (no rain fly).  A "wall tent" design; think of an old-fashioned pup tent with vertical sides underneath.  A big tent, comfortable for three. Advantages: I could afford it.  Lots of room. Only four pounds! Disadvantages: it took fourteen stakes and eight guy lines to set the damn thing up.  A pain at best, and sometimes it was impossible to find a large and soft enough site for it.  Surprisingly, neither leakage nor condensation were a problem. I used this thing on many hard-core wilderness trips over many years.  Was never so foolish as to use it above timberline or in winter, of course. Finally – -One year, way back in the Wind Rivers, a heavy windstorm came up and tore out the grommet supporting one pole.  Spent a wild couple of hours outside holding the thing up while a companion sewed it back together with fishing leader. -Next year, camped in the Snake River Plain on the way to the Cariboos.  A    _really_ _heavy_ rain came up, and the tent leaked and finally collapsed in the middle of the night.  Spent the night in the truck, and the next day in Idaho Falls drying our gear and shopping for a big tarp to use as a rain fly; the Cariboos are rain forest!  A big tarp rigged over the tent worked great on what became the rainiest trip I’ve ever taken,  but made pitching camp a big job.  And wouldn’t have worked in a heavy wind. – Two years after that, camped in a heavy rain near Stowe, Vermont. Packed the tent wet and didn’t get around to drying it for a week.  It turned out that the zippers, stake loops, etc. were cotton, and they all fell apart. I sadly trashed it and sewed up a Frostline Kodiak. _That_ is the difference between North Face and K-Mart. (BTW I now use a North Face Westwind. Damn good tent.)                         Chuck Smythe

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| Serious question; what’s the difference besides price?  I’ve never done | serious backcountry camping (yet), but I’ve camped out in some fairly | cold places.  On my last cross-country trip, I woke up in the morning | when the temperature was freezing, but I’d been perfectly warm in my | $40 K-mart tent and my $30 Coleman rectangular sleeping bag. | | Granted, I got soaked when it rained the next day, but I hadn’t put on | the rainfly. | | — |           -ed falk, sun microsystems |   "Towards the end, the smell of their air began to change" (1) Weight, (2) Durability, (3) Service. The $40 K-Mart tent is going to be heavier, and the seams may not be sewn as solidly.  There may be more seams than optimal (i.e. the tent may be optimized for ease of production, which may not necessarily be optimal for rough conditions).  Finally, if something ever goes wrong with a North Face, Sierra Designs, Walrus, (or whatever) tent, you just bring it back to the store.  They’ll send it back to the manufacturer to fix it.  Doesn’t matter how old the tent is (as long as it doesn’t look like a bear chewed it). (Actually, this last is from hearsay.  I’ve only experienced their customer service in regards to a backpack; I’ve heard about their customer service with respect to sleeping bags, and I’m extrapolating to tents). As for the sleeping bag:  Frankly, you must be a warm sleeper.  My $30 Coleman rectangular bag is *barely* adequate as a comforter.  It has at most 1.5" of loft; it’s heavy; it won’t squoosh down into a small package; it’s not particularly windproof or water resistant (though the fill fiber is synthetic).  (Its weight is maybe 7 or 8 lbs, though that’s a guess.  My mummy bag weighs under 3 lbs, has 6" of loft, and is *highly* wind and water resistant.  Of course, I do feel like a sardine when I sleep in my mummy bag). — Hy

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  lesson one: You get what you pay for.   The main reason a NF tent cost more is the quality of the materials   used. The poles are 7075 aircraft alluminium not cheap fiberglass   that will snap on you. The biggest part of the cost is the poles.   Survival factor: If my life is on the line in a blizzard at 12,000   feet for four days I dont think I want to trust a $40.00 tent, if it   fails you die. If you don’t venture into these parts then a K-Mart   tent is fine.   One tent failure in dangerous weather will teach you this lesson,   trust me, I’ve been there….

  I agree completely. The main difference between NF (or any other quality manufacturer) is the quality of the materials and the quality of the work. Good gear lasts forever (practically) if you take care of it. Cheap gear always breaks when you least want it to. Cheap tents leak more, poles break easier, grommets pull out, seam stitching tears out, etc… When I used to be a full-time guide, I saw more trips ruined by clients bringing cheap gear and having it break down. I understand that $$$ is always a consideration but I believe that you should always buy the best gear you can afford. Even a cheap tent by a good brand is better than going to Kmart, or whereever. I’d recommend renting good gear instead of buying the cheap stuff. Even if your’re not at 12,000 ft in a blizzard, the goal is to have FUN, which is impossible if you gear fails. RIPS (Raster Image Processing Systems)           uunet!solbourne.com!rips!rob 4665 Nautilus Court South                    << KERNAL: Panic, core dumped Boulder, CO 80301                         Darkstar crashes, pouring its light (303) 530-2910                              into ashes, reason tatters, …

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Serious question; what’s the difference besides price?

The other suggestions and answers cover the subject pretty well, so I will only add this: The cheap tent can be upgraded, providing it handles the basics as it is. Work it over with the best seam sealer you can get. Replace those funky heavy fiberglass poles with aluminum poles cut to the proper size. I would only use it for summer camping and weekend fair-weather backpacking. I did the above upgrading to an old $50 two man dome tent, and it works fine. The poles I got at REI in a bin used for tent returns. The tent is much liter now, and easy to backpack on those overnighters. For longer trips I use my North Face Tadpole NHP, which I am very pleased with. One reason to add to the other reasons to go with a more expensive (= durable) tent, is the weight. The Tadpole is 4 pounds, and packs down to a very small size, not to mention a breeze to put up, something to be thankful in a sudden rain shower or snow shower, I know. Between the 2 to 3 pounds the down bag saves me, and the three pounds the tent saves me, I have 5 pounds less to carry: pick up a 5 pound weight, and you will see it is nothing to sneeze at. Add that to the other areas you can trim weight, and it begins to add up. Unfortunately, there is a correlation between quality durable lightweight equipment and its cost… | "Bully! Bully!" – T. Roosevelt with John Muir at Glacier Point       | | "The mountains are calling me, and I must go."   John Muir           | |"Man has got astray out of his orbit, or away from the ends for which | | he was created." John Muir.                                          |

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"What’s the difference between a North Face tent and a K-Mart ten..besides price?"

Well, I’ve got a Eureka Timberline (4-person), a $15 K-Mart 2 man and a Sierra Designs Flash Cliplight.  I can’t talk about North Face per se, but I can give some general comparisons. The real cheap tents have a single non-breathing roof.  Unless you have very dry weather, you get condensation, even with the "window" open. There is no covered overhang, so when it rains, you have to "close it up" and you get more condensation. The fabric is lightweight and not "ripstop".  That means if a tear starts it is more likely to continue than in a better made tent. Also, the seems are not done as well and are not as strong.  For a single overnight in a reasonable situation, its probably okay. But I wouldn’t want to have to depend on it for my life in a week long trip. OTOH, the cheap tents are often lightweight.  That’s nice for carrying.  And you don’t have a big investment so you don’t have to worry about protecting it (I ususally save more weight by not using a ground cloth, which I do use with my better tents.) IMO, the cheap tents are not too bad for simple trips in mild conditions.  But I wouldn’t depend on one for a week long trip. Ken

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Serious question; what’s the difference besides price?  I’ve never done serious backcountry camping (yet), but I’ve camped out in some fairly cold places.  On my last cross-country trip, I woke up in the morning when the temperature was freezing, but I’d been perfectly warm in my $40 K-mart tent and my $30 Coleman rectangular sleeping bag. Granted, I got soaked when it rained the next day, but I hadn’t put on the rainfly.

Well, I owned a $40 tent from a large department store not unlike K-mart, and now own a $150 tent from a chain not unlike North Face. The big differents  is rain. The 40 buck tent leaked even with the rainfly.  So far not one drop has ever gotten into the $150 tent. But, the experience with the $40 really helped me in figuring out what makes a good rain proof tent.  And I really learn the value of seam sealers.  My $40 tent I didn’t use any seam sealer.  The $150 tent I used 2 bottles.  Would the $40 tent have leaked as much if I’d sealed it?  Probably.  The rain fly  on the $40 didn’t cover the tent completely.  So, as seen from above, parts of the tent were exposed.  I made sure the rain fly on the $150 tent completely covered the tent (actual a few places stick out).   Also, the seams that joined the floor and walls at ground level on the $40 tent. On the $150 tent, the floor sort of extents up and becomes the wall for 6 inches, so the wall/floor seam is 6 inches high and under the rain fly. HOMEBREW NAKED!                                  UUCP: …!ames!watson

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