Question:

I have 4 floating fly lines (DT5 and DT4 sizes) that have been on reels since they were last used in 1985.  They were never used very hard (maybe 2 to 3 weeks each year for about 5 years), and I would like to save them if I can.  I’m not sure of the manufacturer, but I know they were "premier" lines. My concerns are (1) they are dirty and will not float, and (2) they will have a permamnent "curly" set to the size of the spool.  Can they be salvaged (cleaned and straightened), and how?

Response:

I have 4 floating fly lines (DT5 and DT4 sizes) that have been on reels since they were last used in 1985.  They were never used very hard (maybe 2 to 3 weeks each year for about 5 years), and I would like to save them if I can.  I’m not sure of the manufacturer, but I know they were "premier" lines. My concerns are (1) they are dirty and will not float, and (2) they will have a permamnent "curly" set to the size of the spool.  Can they be salvaged (cleaned and straightened), and how?

I managed to save an old level sinking line that I found in my mum’s basement.  I had purchased the line in ‘70 and tried it a few times then wound it up in a skein and tossed it in a box.  When I found it, it was hopelessly kinked and dirty.  After repeated applications, this cheap line ended up looking new. I lated cut it up and used it for sinking heads. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

You could try washing them in plain soap and water, drying them, and coating them. 3M makes a nice line cleaning kit. You may be able to remove the curls by holding about 3-4 feet of  between your hands, pulling tightly, the taking the next 3-4 feet and repeating. Tim Lysyk – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My concerns are (1) they are dirty and will not float, and (2) they will have a permamnent "curly" set to the size of the spool.  Can they be salvaged (cleaned and straightened), and how?

Response:

there are a number of good line treatment products on the market that should help restore your line – Russ Peak’s Glide works well as does Gherke’s Pz. Apply a small amount to a clean soft cloth and run the line through the cloth several times under hand tension. Prior washing in mild soapy water and running through a moist cloth will remove a lot of dirt as well. recently I’ve found Scotch brand micro fibre cloths very effective for cleaning fly lines. RalphH – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have 4 floating fly lines (DT5 and DT4 sizes) that have been on reels since they were last used in 1985.  They were never used very hard (maybe 2 to 3 weeks each year for about 5 years), and I would like to save them if I can.  I’m not sure of the manufacturer, but I know they were "premier" lines. My concerns are (1) they are dirty and will not float, and (2) they will have a permamnent "curly" set to the size of the spool.  Can they be salvaged (cleaned and straightened), and how?

Response:

  Does a wf-3 work on the three forks rod, or does it do better with a 4wt?

I prefer a 3WF with my 3WT Three Forks rod. Some people (at least one, anyway) think that WF lines are a marketing scam, and that you’re a fool unless you buy a DT and cut it in half.

Response:

I prefer a 3WF with my 3WT Three Forks rod. Some people (at least one, anyway) think that WF lines are a marketing scam, and that you’re a fool unless you buy a DT and cut it in half.

Well, I ain’t no fool and I didn’t cut my DT in half.  I folded it over and can now cast two flies without using a dropper.  Hah!  Doesn’t load very well though.  Kinda gets stuck in the guides. Ya, know, sitting here, writing this, I think of those long nights around a campfire at a clave and trying to figure out who would jump up and try this after it was mentioned.  Okay, so that would mean you use a DT4 on a 8wt rod for it to load?  Who’s gonna be the first to make a fly rod with spinning rod guides so we can do this?  Why is Miami wearing those god-awful uniforms? Frank "Eggnog and Tequila" Reid Reverse email to reply

Response:

Well, I ain’t no fool and I didn’t cut my DT in half.  I folded it over and can now cast two flies without using a dropper.  Hah!  Doesn’t load very well though.  Kinda gets stuck in the guides. Ya, know, sitting here, writing this, I think of those long nights around a campfire at a clave and trying to figure out who would jump up and try this after it was mentioned.  

Sorry to hear that Frank. Okay, so that would mean you use a DT4 on a 8wt rod for it to load?  Who’s gonna be the first to make a fly rod with spinning rod guides so we can do this?  

One of Peter’s canons or a saltwater 10wt should be able to cope with a couple of 5wts.  or 3x 4’s on a 12 … or … Why is Miami wearing those god-awful uniforms?

Marketing.  Uniforms must change regularly for to maintain sales.   Occasionally (every other change of strip IME) someone gets it wrong, hence the god-awfulness. Frank "Eggnog and Tequila" Reid

Cripes, they must be if  they look bad after eggnog and tequila! Steve

Response:

  If you have any questions ask these guys they know what they are talking about. Zack  

Well, at least about ff. Russell

Response:

I live on a boat and my mom wrote a book of activities for kids to do while on the water. Needless to say, I do a lot of fishing.As for the my family’s domain name

And a fine one it is. Does your mom know you read ROFF? If I were 14, it would intimidate the heck out of me! — TL, Tim (Just between you and me, these guys aren’t NEAR as scary in person.)

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s a web site for a boating activity book written for families who enjoy being on the water. Seems harmless to me. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com I dunno guys. . .  you were very gracious in your info.  But . . . Dave, what the helly are you talking about? The kid’s family has a  domain name… and? What’s so freaking sinister about that? Paranoia is alive and well, eh? — TL, Tim I live on a boat and my mom wrote a book of activities for kids to do while on the water. Needless to say, I do a lot of fishing.As for the my family’s domain name Alex

Alex, Sorry if I weirded you out with my prior post.  You just keep asking questions,  of anybody and everybody who will listen. That is how I tried to do it.  Still trying. . . many . . . many years beyond 14. BestWishes, DaveMohnsen Denver

Response:

I live on a boat and my mom wrote a book of activities for kids to  do while on the water. Needless to say, I do a lot of fishing.As for  the my family’s domain name And a fine one it is. Does your mom know you read ROFF? If I were 14, it would intimidate the heck out of me!

What is ROFF? I have been trying to figure it out. Is it some kind of accronym? I acctualy have done a little Fly fishing with a cheap wal-mart set, but the level line is really hard to cast, and its a little heavy for small stream work. Does a wf-3 work on the three forks rod, or does it do better with a 4wt? Thanks, Alex

Response:

Why is Miami wearing those god-awful uniforms? Frank "Eggnog and Tequila" Reid Cripes, they must be if  they look bad after eggnog and tequila! Steve

I’ve spewed better colors and I think I will again soon. Nighty nite – — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply

Response:

Why is Miami wearing those god-awful uniforms? Frank "Eggnog and Tequila" Reid Cripes, they must be if  they look bad after eggnog and tequila! Steve I’ve spewed better colors and I think I will again soon.

*splork* Nighty nite –

hooroo Frank, 2:30 PM here and not a bad day weather wise. Steve

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I prefer a 3WF with my 3WT Three Forks rod. Some people (at least one, anyway) think that WF lines are a marketing scam, and that you’re a fool unless you buy a DT and cut it in half. Well, I ain’t no fool and I didn’t cut my DT in half.  I folded it over and can now cast two flies without using a dropper.  Hah!  Doesn’t load very well though.  Kinda gets stuck in the guides. Ya, know, sitting here, writing this, I think of those long nights around a campfire at a clave and trying to figure out who would jump up and try this after it was mentioned.  Okay, so that would mean you use a DT4 on a 8wt rod for it to load?  Who’s gonna be the first to make a fly rod with spinning rod guides so we can do this?  Why is Miami wearing those god-awful uniforms? Frank "Eggnog and Tequila" Reid Reverse email to reply

<splork! Russell Thinking perhaps Frank had done a few too many Full Reids.

Response:

Hi, I am a 14 year old kid who has just bought a clearwater 3/4 reel, rio classic 3wt line, and am looking to get the much talked about Cabelas three forks 3wt. What i was wondering is: Is this a good outfit for a beginer who will be fishing mostly small sreams? Is the three forks rod a fast or slow action, and how much does it weigh? Any help would be much appreciated, Alex

Response:

Hi, I am a 14 year old kid who has just bought a clearwater 3/4 reel, rio classic 3wt line, and am looking to get the much talked about Cabelas three forks 3wt. What i was wondering is: Is this a good outfit for a beginer who will be fishing mostly small sreams? Is the three forks rod a fast or slow action, and how much does it weigh? Any help would be much appreciated, Alex

Hi Alex, from a collector and user of Three Forks rods, I highly recommend the 3 wt 3 piece..it’s a 7 footer and ought to be ideal for fishing small streams. I can’t tell you for sure what it weighs, but it is a light rod and one you can handle with no problem. I would class this rod in the medium action, maybe even a tad on the slow side of medium. In any event, how could you go wrong with a rod that costs 40 bucks?  If it turns out you are not happy with it, Cabela’s has a liberal return policy, so you really are risking nothing. All the guys here who have purchased and used the rod seem to be happy with it, including me. Good luck, and let us know how this works out for you. Frank Church Elkhart, IN

Response:

Cabela’s Three Forks Fly Combo Model Length Pieces Weight Qty Price 763 7′6" 3 3  $49.99 805 8′ 2 5  $49.99 865 8′6" 2 5  $49.99 866 8′6" 2 6  $49.99 907 9′ 2 7  $49.99 908 9′ 2 8  $49.99

Response:

Hi, I am a 14 year old kid who has just bought a clearwater 3/4 reel, rio classic 3wt line, and am looking to get the much talked about Cabelas three forks 3wt. What i was wondering is: Is this a good outfit for a beginer who will be fishing mostly small sreams? Is the three forks rod a fast or slow action, and how much does it weigh? Any help would be much appreciated,

Based on what their web site says, it’s probably a medium to medium/slow rod.  That might be just what you want.  Or you might find your casting style tends toward a faster rod.  If you don’t like it, return it and try a faster one.  I would usually recommend a 4 wt. as the lightest beginners should try.  Lighter than that it starts getting hard to control the line because it’s so light.  For small streams, you’ll be making a lot of short 10-25 foot casts.  Remember that a rod is rated at about 30 feet of line in the air.  I recommend you get a spare spool (inexpensive for Clearwaters) and get a 4 wt line as well if you can afford it.  Then try both lines on the rod.  In any case, even if you return the rod for a different action or size, you’ll still be in good shape.  You’ll probably own another rod someday anyway if you stick with the sport

Response:

What is ROFF? I have been trying to figure it out. Is it some kind of accronym? I acctualy have done a little Fly fishing with a cheap wal-mart set, but the level line is really hard to cast, and its a little heavy for small stream work. Does a wf-3 work on the three forks rod, or does it do better with a 4wt? Thanks, Alex

The WF-3 line will do just fine on the Three Forks rod Alex, assuming you get the Three Forks 3 wt rod. There is a whole line of Three Forks rods, from 3 wt up thru 8 wt. You could overline the rod with a WF-4, but given the kind of fishing you’ll be doing, I don’t see the necessity of that. ROFF is the initials of the usenet group, Rec.Outdoors.Fishing.Fly, now do it make sense? Frank Church

Response:

What is ROFF? I have been trying to figure it out. Is it some kind of accronym? I acctualy have done a little Fly fishing with a cheap wal-mart set, but the level line is really hard to cast, and its a little heavy for small stream work. Does a wf-3 work on the three forks rod, or does it do better with a 4wt? Thanks, Alex

The WF 3 should be fine on your 3wt rod.  Often, the older rods would be "over lined" with a heavier line to get the max benefit.  Most modern rods are matched to the line weight marked on them.  Keep it simple and keep the 3wt line. ROFF stands for Rec.Outdoors.Fishing.Fly, the newsgroup you are in.  You may also read about ROFFT, which is ROFF.tying or ABPF: alt.binaries.pictures.fishing. Welcome to the sport, your soul now belongs to the stream and your wallet to the tackle retailers. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply

Response:

Hi, I am a 14 year old kid who has just bought a clearwater 3/4 reel, rio classic 3wt line, and am looking to get the much talked about Cabelas three forks 3wt. What i was wondering is: Is this a good outfit for a beginer who will be fishing mostly small sreams? Is the three forks rod a fast or slow action, and how much does it weigh? Any help would be much appreciated, Alex

It is cool to see some other people around my age getting into the sport. I started when I was 13. I am now 16, and the same rod I bought then 7′6 3 wt Sage DS series I still am using, I have had numerous chances to buy another supposedly better rod, but there are way to many memories put into that rod. I am sure your first rod will be the same. Good luck in all your fishing. Stay with it at first and you will a fly fishing addict like the members of this post. If you have any questions ask these guys they know what they are talking about. Zack  

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s a web site for a boating activity book written for families who enjoy being on the water. Seems harmless to me. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com I dunno guys. . .  you were very gracious in your info.  But . . . Dave, what the helly are you talking about? The kid’s family has a  domain name… and? What’s so freaking sinister about that? Paranoia is alive and well, eh? — TL, Tim

I live on a boat and my mom wrote a book of activities for kids to do while on the water. Needless to say, I do a lot of fishing.As for the my family’s domain name Alex

Response:

Hi, I am a 14 year old kid who has just bought a clearwater 3/4 reel, rio classic 3wt line, and am looking to get the much talked about Cabelas three forks 3wt. What i was wondering is: Is this a good outfit for a beginer who will be fishing mostly small sreams? Is the three forks rod a fast or slow action, and how much does it weigh? Any help would be much appreciated, Alex

I bought the 7 1/2 foot three piece 3wt. a few months ago as a backup for a trip to North Carolina.  I haven’t actually fished with it yet, but I spent an hour or so test casting it side by side with a two piece St. Croix Legend Ultra in the same length and weight.  The Cabela’s rod definitely has a slower action, which is a considerable advantage when fishing a very short line.  The rod loads easier with twenty feet or less of line out.  With a moderate to long line….up to about fifty feet, I could detect no significant difference in performance.  For those who like to cast a really long line, and are able to, I suspect that the stiffer St. Croix will perform better, but that’s not what a short three weight is for anyway. The weight of this rod is not printed anywhere on the rod itself, and a glance at Cabela’s website didn’t turn up any information either.  But, aside from satisfying curiosity, the weight of a small rod like this one really isn’t much of an issue…..ALL short three weights are going to be VERY light. One serious shortcoming of this rod hasn’t been mentioned yet in this thread.  A number of people have mentioned that the reel seat has a tendency to come off.  As a matter of fact, the components for the reel seat are obviously cheap, and this is a serious drawback at least in terms of esthetics.  However, I believe that all those who have suffered this mishap were able to fix it pretty easily with a bit of epoxy. Good luck and let us know how it works for you. Wolfgang

Response:

Hi, I am a 14 year old kid who has just bought a clearwater 3/4 reel, rio classic 3wt line, and am looking to get the much talked about Cabelas three forks 3wt. What i was wondering is: Is this a good outfit for a beginer who will be fishing mostly small sreams? Is the three forks rod a fast or slow action, and how much does it weigh? Any help would be much appreciated, Alex

I dunno guys. . .  you were very gracious in your info.  But . . . Any 14 year old now days normally uses a spell checker better than us, and it is automatic, and they have better computers than most of us. . .when they were younger. Coincidence perhaps? Yeh . . .I guess so. But nice to know some of youse guys can be nice, DaveMohnsen Denver

Response:

Hi, I am a 14 year old kid who has just bought a clearwater 3/4 reel,

    (considerate, thoughtful advice to newbie snipped) Good luck and let us know how it works for you. Wolfgang

    now, see there:  you *can* be a nice man! yfitons wayno  (but it ain’t like i’m gonna hold my breath waiting for the next exemplar…)

Response:

I dunno guys. . .  you were very gracious in your info.  But . . .

Dave, what the helly are you talking about? The kid’s family has a domain name… and? What’s so freaking sinister about that? –Steve

Response:

I dunno guys. . .  you were very gracious in your info.  But . . . Dave, what the helly are you talking about? The kid’s family has a domain name… and? What’s so freaking sinister about that?

Paranoia is alive and well, eh? — TL, Tim

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I dunno guys. . .  you were very gracious in your info.  But . . . Dave, what the helly are you talking about? The kid’s family has a domain name… and? What’s so freaking sinister about that? Paranoia is alive and well, eh? — TL, Tim

Heh . . .heh.  I guess you’re right.  Uh . . .and why are you watching my posts anyway? . . .Geesh they are everywhere! Dave (cripes . . .can’t even post on the internet anymore without people reading my drivel. ’spect we’ll even see surveillance cameras soon . . .I’ll keep looking to warn ya all . . .they’re comin’ I tell ya . . .they’re comin’ . . .sshhsh . . .quiet . . did you hear somethin’? . . .I think they are even in the ‘puters!)

Response:

It’s a web site for a boating activity book written for families who enjoy being on the water. Seems harmless to me. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I dunno guys. . .  you were very gracious in your info.  But . . . Dave, what the helly are you talking about? The kid’s family has a domain name… and? What’s so freaking sinister about that? Paranoia is alive and well, eh? — TL, Tim

Response:

I’ve fished lake with a worm and stuff from shore but this flyfishing thing sounds cool and I wanted to know how to get started.  You see Christmas is coming soon and I’ve been good this year.  I need to tell Santa what I want so he can check it once and check it twice.  What do I need to get started and how do I get started?  I don’t want a lump of coal in my sock this years. JA

Response:

http://ezflyfish.com/outfits1.html

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve fished lake with a worm and stuff from shore but this flyfishing thing sounds cool and I wanted to know how to get started.  You see Christmas is coming soon and I’ve been good this year.  I need to tell Santa what I want so he can check it once and check it twice.  What do I need to get started and how do I get started?  I don’t want a lump of coal in my sock this years. JA

Response:

I’ve fished lake with a worm and stuff from shore but this flyfishing thing sounds cool and I wanted to know how to get started.

Josh, someone already posted the link to where you can get the gear (ezflyfish.com), but here are some links to info which you might find helpful. http://www.flyanglersonline.com/ http://www.anglinguk.net/beginners/fly.htm http://www.iflyshop.com/flyfishing-beginners.htm http://www.flyanglersonline.com/begin/101/ http://www.fishin.com/sale/woodsandwaters/articles/fly-fish-beginners.ht m http://home.mcn.net/~n2trout/mff/flyfishi.htm http://www.flyshop.com/skills/ — Warren www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt

Response:

What might be the way to go, is to join you local fly fishing club, or hire the local fly fishing pro to take you fishing and see what gear is being used on your home waters.  What you buy will depend on what you are fishing for, how much money you want to invest, and personal tastes.   Padishar Creel — Hard not to suggest a rod or two for him…

Response:

A good way to get started with quality yet low priced gear (IMHO) is to check out the rod combo’s at Cabelas (www.cabelas.com). For +- $100 you can get into a rod that you can fish for a few years, see if you like the sport and then upgrade. I would start with a 9′ 5wt. Its a nice all-purpose rod. Well, as close to all-purpose as one can get. I personally think 3 rods in the minimum. I have a 7′ 3wt for small water, a  9′ 5wt for bigger water and a 9′ 8wt for steelheadin’. Just my $.02, Randy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve fished lake with a worm and stuff from shore but this flyfishing thing sounds cool and I wanted to know how to get started.  You see Christmas is coming soon and I’ve been good this year.  I need to tell Santa what I want so he can check it once and check it twice.  What do I need to get started and how do I get started?  I don’t want a lump of coal in my sock this years. JA

Response:

your local flyshop guy can help if you can tell him the kind/size fish you are going after and your budget…in my opinion, spend more on a rod and less on a reel…it is really your most important tool and makes a big difference…avoid the temptation to go too light…when I started fly fishing with some seriousness, I used a 6 weight Fenwick rod and a cheap reel.  It was a little heavy for the stream I was fishing, but it was an easy rod to learn to cast with.  My brother, Salvelinas Fontinalis, uses that rod now and is as happy about it as I was before he got his hands on it.  I’ve since bought more rods than you want to know and spend most of my streamside time with a Ted Knott bamboo rod, 4/5 weight, 7′, which has become a good friend.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A good way to get started with quality yet low priced gear (IMHO) is to check out the rod combo’s at Cabelas (www.cabelas.com). For +- $100 you can get into a rod that you can fish for a few years, see if you like the sport and then upgrade. I would start with a 9′ 5wt. Its a nice all-purpose rod. Well, as close to all-purpose as one can get. I personally think 3 rods in the minimum. I have a 7′ 3wt for small water, a  9′ 5wt for bigger water and a 9′ 8wt for steelheadin’. Just my $.02, Randy I’ve fished lake with a worm and stuff from shore but this flyfishing thing sounds cool and I wanted to know how to get started.  You see Christmas is coming soon and I’ve been good this year.  I need to tell Santa what I want so he can check it once and check it twice.  What do I need to get started and how do I get started?  I don’t want a lump of coal in my sock this years. JA

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Question:

When shooting with my rangefinder camera, I find I use my lenses in the order 35, 24, 50, 15, 90. When I go out for a photo session for a day or a trip, I usually only carry two lenses (sometimes three) … The kits I’ve carried that proved very comfortable were 15/35/90 and 24/50. I’m beginning to believe that my ideal kit for this camera might be 21/35/75. With SLRs, I tend to go with longer lenses. I currently have three lenses 22-55 zoom, 50 and 100mm, and would like a fast 135 or a fast 180 as well. I find I never use the zoom as it is only an f/4 and too slow, plus it’s not terribly sharp. For completeness sake, I probably want a fast ultrawide as well, around a 20mm. Again, when going on a trip, I carry at most two-three lenses, but use the 50 the vast majority of the time; my last all round SLR kit was a 20/50/105 or 70-300 setup that was amazingly flexible and comfortable to use. With the kit you have listed, I would find the 28 and 35 a little too close together, would probably go with a 20-24mm instead. The 80-200 is a wonderful lens, it’s just way too bulky for me to want to carry much! Godfrey === CrisKeath sez: it’s been awhile since I’ve done photography but I’ve decided I want to take it up as a hobby again. After much research, I’ve decided to go with the F100. My shooting habits right now will be of 3 things-nature (when I go hiking) and candid shots of the kids playing or group shots. Photo gurus- what do you think of my selection or would you modify it. All suggestions and feedback welcome 80-200 AFD 2.8 – A little heavy but it’s a alot more versatile when you’re hiking and don’t want to stop and change lenses or have the space to compose 28mm f2.8- A good overall landscape lens to complement the 80-200. 35mm f2- General prime that will be on the F100 for those candid group shots of the kids…playing, birthdays, etc

Response:

I tend to rely on primes (24/2.8, 35/2.8, 50/1.8, 105/2.5, 135/2.8) as I like the small size and speed of those lenses – I am uncomfortable with the weight and bulk of the heavy 2.8 zooms. I have the new Tamron 28-200mm XR for convenience n bright light, and am (so far) astounded by its results. If I were to change anything, I’d trade in my 35mm f/2.8 on the f/2 and the 135mm on a 180mm f/2.8. I like your outfit and would be satisfied (although I personally find the 80-200mm too heavy) with it if I changed the 28mm to a 24mm. Big difference in perspective. Your F100 is sweet. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – it’s been awhile since I’ve done photography but I’ve decided I want to take it up as a hobby again. After much research, I’ve decided to go with the F100. My shooting habits right now will be of 3 things-nature (when I go hiking) and candid shots of the kids playing or group shots. Photo gurus- what do you think of my selection or would you modify it. All suggestions and feedback welcome 80-200 AFD 2.8 – A little heavy but it’s a alot more versatile when you’re hiking and don’t want to stop and change lenses or have the space to compose 28mm f2.8- A good overall landscape lens to complement the 80-200. Skip the 26…go for at least a 24mm. 35mm f2- General prime that will be on the F100 for those candid group shots of the kids…playing, birthdays, etc How about a 50 1.4 or 50 1.8?? MWNN Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com – Still Only $9.95 –

http://www.uncensored-news.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    With NINE Servers In California And Texas – The Worlds Uncensored News Source

Response:

Minuses: The 28 and 35 are probably too close together; 80-200 is imho too heavy to hike with. If you want 3 lenses, what about the 28/2.8, 50/1.8, and 80-200/2.8?  That would be a very nice stable of lenses.  You could shoot good portraits with the 80-200 but personally i’d never take it on a hike.  (don’t let cheap price of 50/1.8 fool you—it’s great) Dudefish alternative: if you want to cover a lot of ground, save a lot of money, and have one lens capable of making lots of very respectable images, why not just get the AF-D 28-105/3.5-4.5?  This may be a worth looking into, esp. if your interest is more casual than professional. btw, F100=very nice.

80-200 AFD 2.8 – A little heavy but it’s a alot more versatile when you’re hiking and don’t want to stop and change lenses or have the space to compose 28mm f2.8- A good overall landscape lens to complement the 80-200.

 35mm f2- General prime that will be on the F100 for those candid group – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – shots of the kids…playing, birthdays, etc

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80-200 AFD 2.8 – A little heavy but it’s a alot more versatile when you’re hiking and don’t want to stop and change lenses or have the space to compose

You may wish to get this lens’ little brother, the 70-210mm constant f/4. It rates very highly especially for costing well under $300. It is much smaller and lighter also. If you decide to get a Nikon 50mm I would get the 1.8 instead of the 1.4. It’s cheaper and by many accounts, better overall than the 1.4 except for the slight edge in terms of "speed." I have a 1.4 and while I’ve been fairly happy with it, many reviews I have read pointed out the general superiority of the 1.8. Just make sure to get one with a metal mount! Amy

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Photo gurus- what do you think of my selection or would you modify it. All suggestions and feedback welcome 80-200 AFD 2.8 – A little heavy but it’s a alot more versatile when you’re hiking and don’t want to stop and change lenses or have the space to compose 28mm f2.8- A good overall landscape lens to complement the 80-200. 35mm f2- General prime that will be on the F100 for those candid group shots of the kids…playing, birthdays, etc.

I’d substitute a 24mm or wider lens for the 28mm. I think you’ll find the 35mm to be very useful indeed…the 28mm isn’t that much wider. With a 24 you start getting into interesting territory perspective-wise. My main SLR kit is small: 21/60/180. (The 60mm is a macro lens but also works great for general picture-taking and even portraits.) Two other lens sets I like are 21/50/135 and 15/35/90. I use these with rangefinder cameras. -Dave-

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – it’s been awhile since I’ve done photography but I’ve decided I want to take it up as a hobby again. After much research, I’ve decided to go with the F100. My shooting habits right now will be of 3 things-nature (when I go hiking) and candid shots of the kids playing or group shots. Photo gurus- what do you think of my selection or would you modify it. All suggestions and feedback welcome 80-200 AFD 2.8 – A little heavy but it’s a alot more versatile when you’re hiking and don’t want to stop and change lenses or have the space to compose 28mm f2.8- A good overall landscape lens to complement the 80-200. 35mm f2- General prime that will be on the F100 for those candid group shots of the kids…playing, birthdays, etc

I too have the F100 and the N70 as a backup/2nd body.  I use the Tokina Pro 17/3.5, 28-70/2.6-2.8, 80-200, and Nikkor 50/1.8. I will probably be adding the 300/f4 AF-S to that list.  For hiking this would be quite a heavy load.  The 50/1.8 is an awesome lens, and try an ultra wide lens, it is truly fun…. JR

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I’m in the exact same boat, and could have written the original post myself! My thoughts were the F100 with the 24-85 f2.8-4 IF D-AF and the 80-200 f2.8 Ed D IF.  Any comments on choice and / or the quality of these two lenses before I take the plunge? Also, I’ve got a pretty recent Vivitar 283 (doesn’t everyone?) and don’t know how it might integrate into an F100 system?  Trigger voltage is one thing – I understand later serial #s are okay?  But what about metering modes and such? Thanks, Wayne

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – it’s been awhile since I’ve done photography but I’ve decided I want to take it up as a hobby again. After much research, I’ve decided to go with the F100. My shooting habits right now will be of 3 things-nature (when I go hiking) and candid shots of the kids playing or group shots. Photo gurus- what do you think of my selection or would you modify it. All suggestions and feedback welcome 80-200 AFD 2.8 – A little heavy but it’s a alot more versatile when you’re hiking and don’t want to stop and change lenses or have the space to compose 28mm f2.8- A good overall landscape lens to complement the 80-200. 35mm f2- General prime that will be on the F100 for those candid group shots of the kids…playing, birthdays, etc I too have the F100 and the N70 as a backup/2nd body.  I use the Tokina Pro 17/3.5, 28-70/2.6-2.8, 80-200, and Nikkor 50/1.8. I will probably be adding the 300/f4 AF-S to that list.  For hiking this would be quite a heavy load.  The 50/1.8 is an awesome lens, and try an ultra wide lens, it is truly fun…. JR

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I have  a 17-35mm 2.8 on the wide end, a 28-135mm IS for the middle and a 70-200 4.0L at the long with a 1.4 and 2.0TC and an EOS-3. I normally only carry one lens at a time depending on what I am shooting, but the others will be in my trunk if I find I need them and one will be on my wife’s Elan 7 so we can swap. I am seriously thinking of replacing the 17-35(which is my favorite nature / travel lens with a Contax G2 with some collection of 16mm through 45mm lenses. This will put much less strain on my neck by days end. Dave

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m in the exact same boat, and could have written the original post myself! My thoughts were the F100 with the 24-85 f2.8-4 IF D-AF and the 80-200 f2.8 Ed D IF.  Any comments on choice and / or the quality of these two lenses before I take the plunge? Also, I’ve got a pretty recent Vivitar 283 (doesn’t everyone?) and don’t know how it might integrate into an F100 system?  Trigger voltage is one thing – I understand later serial #s are okay?  But what about metering modes and such? Thanks, Wayne it’s been awhile since I’ve done photography but I’ve decided I want to take it up as a hobby again. After much research, I’ve decided to go with the F100. My shooting habits right now will be of 3 things-nature (when I go hiking) and candid shots of the kids playing or group shots. Photo gurus- what do you think of my selection or would you modify it. All suggestions and feedback welcome 80-200 AFD 2.8 – A little heavy but it’s a alot more versatile when you’re hiking and don’t want to stop and change lenses or have the space to compose 28mm f2.8- A good overall landscape lens to complement the 80-200. 35mm f2- General prime that will be on the F100 for those candid group shots of the kids…playing, birthdays, etc I too have the F100 and the N70 as a backup/2nd body.  I use the Tokina Pro 17/3.5, 28-70/2.6-2.8, 80-200, and Nikkor 50/1.8. I will probably be adding the 300/f4 AF-S to that list.  For hiking this would be quite a heavy load.  The 50/1.8 is an awesome lens, and try an ultra wide lens, it is truly fun…. JR

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I have  a 17-35mm 2.8 on the wide end, a 28-135mm IS for the middle and a 70-200 4.0L at the long with a 1.4 and 2.0TC and an EOS-3. I normally only carry one lens at a time depending on what I am shooting, but the others will be in my trunk if I find I need them and one will be on my wife’s Elan 7 so we can swap. I am seriously thinking of replacing the 17-35(which is my favorite nature / travel lens with a Contax G2 with some collection of 16mm through 45mm lenses. This will put much less strain on my neck by days end. Dave

… … I also carry the 17-28 2.8L and the 28-135 IS (even though I don’t like the lens), but where you have the 70-200 4.0L and some TCs,  I have an 85 1.2L and a 100-400 4-5.6L. I don’t have any TCs and am nervous about getting one as I worry that I’ll be too disappointed in the optical quality. Charles — *  Charles Richmond    Integrated International Systems Corporation   * *  UNIX Internals, I18N, L10N, X, Realtime Imaging, and  Custom S/W   * *         131 Bishop’s Forest Drive , Waltham , Ma. USA 02452         * *  (781) 647 2269   FAX (781) 647 3665   Cellular (617) 504 3379      *

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have  a 17-35mm 2.8 on the wide end, a 28-135mm IS for the middle and a 70-200 4.0L at the long with a 1.4 and 2.0TC and an EOS-3. I normally only carry one lens at a time depending on what I am shooting, but the others will be in my trunk if I find I need them and one will be on my wife’s Elan 7 so we can swap. I am seriously thinking of replacing the 17-35(which is my favorite nature / travel lens with a Contax G2 with some collection of 16mm through 45mm lenses. This will put much less strain on my neck by days end. Dave … … I also carry the 17-28 2.8L and the 28-135 IS (even though I don’t like the lens), but where you have the 70-200 4.0L and some TCs,  I have an 85 1.2L and a 100-400 4-5.6L. I don’t have any TCs and am nervous about getting one as I worry that I’ll be too disappointed in the optical quality. Charles — *  Charles Richmond    Integrated International Systems Corporation   * *  UNIX Internals, I18N, L10N, X, Realtime Imaging, and  Custom S/W   * *         131 Bishop’s Forest Drive , Waltham , Ma. USA 02452         * *  (781) 647 2269   FAX (781) 647 3665   Cellular (617) 504 3379      *

Sounds like what I carry, 17-35 f2.8-4 Sigma, 28-135 IS Canon, 100-400 IS, 100 f2 and 50 f1.8, although generally not all at once. Skip —   Shadowcatcher Imagery  http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have  a 17-35mm 2.8 on the wide end, a 28-135mm IS for the middle and a 70-200 4.0L at the long with a 1.4 and 2.0TC and an EOS-3. I normally only carry one lens at a time depending on what I am shooting, but the others will be in my trunk if I find I need them and one will be on my wife’s Elan 7 so we can swap. I am seriously thinking of replacing the 17-35(which is my favorite nature / travel lens with a Contax G2 with some collection of 16mm through 45mm lenses. This will put much less strain on my neck by days end. Dave … … I also carry the 17-28 2.8L and the 28-135 IS (even though I don’t like the lens), but where you have the 70-200 4.0L and some TCs,  I have an 85 1.2L and a 100-400 4-5.6L. I don’t have any TCs and am nervous about getting one as I worry that I’ll be too disappointed in the optical quality. Charles

Charles,     You really like  big lenses. Very nice but big. I find the 1.4TC to be unnoticeable in image quality when used and the 2.0 gives just a touch of softness to the 70-200mm 4.0L which otherwise is crisp as hell. I actually used to own the 28-70mm 2.8L and sold it to purchase the 28-135mm IS just to get away from the weight also the 70mm top end was always too short. Stopped down they are very similar in image quality. I have scoured the photo market for a camera and lens combination that will give me a L or better look without a crick in my neck. The Contax G2 and lenses seems to do the trick. Played with a G1 last week and really liked it. No real usable zoom but it is optically great and light. Canon just came out with the 16-35mm 2.8L which is somewhat bigger and heavier than the 17-35. I was hoping for a 17-35mm 4.0L to match my 70-200. I do mostly scenic and am stopped down most of the time.   Dave

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<<If you decide to get a Nikon 50mm I would get the 1.8 instead of the 1.4. It’s cheaper and by many accounts, better overall than the 1.4 except for the slight edge in terms of "speed." I have a 1.4 and while I’ve been fairly happy with it, many reviews I have read pointed out the general superiority of the 1.8. Just make sure to get one with a metal mount! Amy I have both the f1.4 and f1.8.  The difference is slight and not noticeable under most conditions.  The f1.8 is sharper at f1.8 than the f1.4 is at that opening, but by  the time both are at f2.8 and certainly by f4, they are essentially equal from mid to out there distances.   Up close, the f1.8 has the edge until f5.6.  OTOH, the f1.4 is a little brighter and easier to focus on manual.  I think the f1.4 is made better, or at least my version seems to be. I use them almost interchangeably. Allen Zak

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When I go off into the hills with my 4X4 I take three lens with me, the 17-35mm, 24-120mm, and the 135-400mm. Since it’s open daylight, I don’t really need a battery of fast lenses, but the 17-35mm is my favorite lens for scenic’s (among other things). In my trail bag, I take a N90s, the 24-120 and the 135-400 with three filters, a warming filter, polarizer, and a UV; and a MC30 shutter release cable. I have a sold light weight fly fishing wadding staff that I have placed a Giotto MH-1003 ball head on and I use that for my walking staff and monopod. I don’t use my steel Gitzo monopod when on the trail. It’s too heavy. The 135-400 serves me well for creature pictures and the 24-120 handles the rest of my needs. But for vistas, I like the 17-35 stopped down to f11 at 20 or 24mm’s, mounted on a tripod (the 17-35mm and the tripod stay with the 4X4). Nick – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – it’s been awhile since I’ve done photography but I’ve decided I want to take it up as a hobby again. After much research, I’ve decided to go with the F100. My shooting habits right now will be of 3 things-nature (when I go hiking) and candid shots of the kids playing or group shots. Photo gurus- what do you think of my selection or would you modify it. All suggestions and feedback welcome 80-200 AFD 2.8 – A little heavy but it’s a alot more versatile when you’re hiking and don’t want to stop and change lenses or have the space to compose 28mm f2.8- A good overall landscape lens to complement the 80-200. 35mm f2- General prime that will be on the F100 for those candid group shots of the kids…playing, birthdays, etc

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When I hike I carry an Elan II, a 28-135IS, a Sigma 17-35 2.8, and a cheapo 75-300 if I feel like carrying it.  In the bag on a serious day I add a 70-200 2.8L and an EOS-3.  It comes down to home much you want to carry.  What stinks is invariably whenever I don’t carry a camera or a specific lens, a picture comes along and i am stuck muttering, "Damn, wish I brought along the…" Y’all know the feeling.

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I don’t have any lenses in my bag. Two years ago I bought a really nice camera body to start me off on my picture taking. Hopefully, in a few years I will be able to afford a nice lens. Until then I am practicing pointing the camera, pushing the shutter button smoothly and taking notes on thing I see that might make a good picture.  - the photo guy. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have  a 17-35mm 2.8 on the wide end, a 28-135mm IS for the middle and a 70-200 4.0L at the long with a 1.4 and 2.0TC and an EOS-3. I normally only carry one lens at a time depending on what I am shooting, but the others will be in my trunk if I find I need them and one will be on my wife’s Elan 7 so we can swap. I am seriously thinking of replacing the 17-35(which is my favorite nature / travel lens with a Contax G2 with some collection of 16mm through 45mm lenses. This will put much less strain on my neck by days end. Dave … … I also carry the 17-28 2.8L and the 28-135 IS (even though I don’t like the lens), but where you have the 70-200 4.0L and some TCs,  I have an 85 1.2L and a 100-400 4-5.6L. I don’t have any TCs and am nervous about getting one as I worry that I’ll be too disappointed in the optical quality. Charles Charles,     You really like  big lenses. Very nice but big. I find the 1.4TC to be unnoticeable in image quality when used and the 2.0 gives just a touch of softness to the 70-200mm 4.0L which otherwise is crisp as hell. I actually used to own the 28-70mm 2.8L and sold it to purchase the 28-135mm IS just to get away from the weight also the 70mm top end was always too short. Stopped down they are very similar in image quality. I have scoured the photo market for a camera and lens combination that will give me a L or better look without a crick in my neck. The Contax G2 and lenses seems to do the trick. Played with a G1 last week and really liked it. No real usable zoom but it is optically great and light. Canon just came out with the 16-35mm 2.8L which is somewhat bigger and heavier than the 17-35. I was hoping for a 17-35mm 4.0L to match my 70-200. I do mostly scenic and am stopped down most of the time.   Dave

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When I hike I carry an Elan II, a 28-135IS, a Sigma 17-35 2.8, and a cheapo 75-300 if I feel like carrying it.  In the bag on a serious day I add a 70-200 2.8L and an EOS-3.  It comes down to home much you want to carry.  What stinks is invariably whenever I don’t carry a camera or a specific lens, a picture comes along and i am stuck muttering, "Damn, wish I brought along the…" Y’all know the feeling.

I’ve had that feeling. Especially when I see a fantastic vista and reflect upon not bringing a second camera that has transparency film. There is _nothing_ like seeing something so grand as such scenes projected upon a large projection screen in your home, except seeing the real thing. Prints or digitals on a monitor don’t come close to reproducing the feeling one gets when viewing projections. Nick

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I don’t have any lenses in my bag. Two years ago I bought a really nice camera body to start me off on my picture taking. Hopefully, in a few years I will be able to afford a nice lens. Until then I am practicing pointing the camera, pushing the shutter button smoothly and taking notes on thing I see that might make a good picture. – the photo guy.

PG, you are not taking this thing seriously. Glue a piece of kitchen foil across the lens mounting ring on your body, make a small hole in it with a needle, and you can have a lens for free, you will *never* need to waste any more money. If you put it on a couple of concentric cardboard tubes you can have a zoom lens of pretty well any effective focal length you like, with *no change in quality* (how about that, a zoom that’s *exactly* as good optically as a fixed focal length lens). And you will have no problem with bo-ke, as all the scene will be in focus, every time (well, kind of). — David Littlewood

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writes – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have  a 17-35mm 2.8 on the wide end, a 28-135mm IS for the middle and a 70-200 4.0L at the long with a 1.4 and 2.0TC and an EOS-3. I normally only carry one lens at a time depending on what I am shooting, but the others will be in my trunk if I find I need them and one will be on my wife’s Elan 7 so we can swap. I am seriously thinking of replacing the 17-35(which is my favorite nature / travel lens with a Contax G2 with some collection of 16mm through 45mm lenses. This will put much less strain on my neck by days end. Dave I also carry the 17-28 2.8L and the 28-135 IS (even though I don’t like the lens), but where you have the 70-200 4.0L and some TCs, I have an 85 1.2L and a 100-400 4-5.6L. I don’t have any TCs and am nervous about getting one as I worry that I’ll be too disappointed in the optical quality.

Hmm, at the risk of this sounding like a clone club, I usually have a 17-35 f/2.8L, a 28-135 f/4-5.6 IS and a 100-400 f/4.5-5.6L IS. If only I could leave it there, but no, I usually have to add a Sigma 14mm, a TS-E 24 f/3.5, and a 35 f/1.4 (if doing interiors) plus a 1.4x TC and maybe a spare body. Before I replaced some earlier lenses with these heavier ones, I would regularly have a Mamiya 6 outfit (body plus 3 lenses) in the same bag. No wonder I have spent so much on chiropractors in the last year or so! Think I need a spare body too (usually known as my wife). — David Littlewood

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I have  a 17-35mm 2.8 on the wide end, a 28-135mm IS for the middle and

… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I also carry the 17-28 2.8L and the 28-135 IS (even though I don’t like the lens), but where you have the 70-200 4.0L and some TCs,  I have an 85 1.2L and a 100-400 4-5.6L. I don’t have any TCs and am nervous about getting one as I worry that I’ll be too disappointed in the optical quality. Charles,     You really like  big lenses. Very nice but big. I find the 1.4TC to be unnoticeable in image quality when used and the 2.0 gives just a touch of softness to the 70-200mm 4.0L which otherwise is crisp as hell. I actually used to own the 28-70mm 2.8L and sold it to purchase the 28-135mm IS just to get away from the weight also the 70mm top end was always too short. Stopped down they are very similar in image quality. I have scoured the photo market for a camera and lens combination that will give me a L or better look without a crick in my neck. The Contax G2 and lenses seems to do the trick. Played with a G1 last week and really liked it. No real usable zoom but it is optically great and light. Canon just came out with the 16-35mm 2.8L which is somewhat bigger and heavier than the 17-35. I was hoping for a 17-35mm 4.0L to match my 70-200. I do mostly scenic and am stopped down most of the time.   Dave

It is true that my gear weighs a lot and I probably should get a Canon 1.4TC. I wonder if it would fit on the 85 1.2L… Charles — *  Charles Richmond    Integrated International Systems Corporation   * *  UNIX Internals, I18N, L10N, X, Realtime Imaging, and  Custom S/W   * *         131 Bishop’s Forest Drive , Waltham , Ma. USA 02452         * *  (781) 647 2269   FAX (781) 647 3665   Cellular (617) 504 3379      *

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There certainly are a lot of us with the 17-35 f2.8L. It is one of my favourite lenses. How about you guys? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – writes I have  a 17-35mm 2.8 on the wide end, a 28-135mm IS for the middle and a 70-200 4.0L at the long with a 1.4 and 2.0TC and an EOS-3. I normally only carry one lens at a time depending on what I am shooting, but the others will be in my trunk if I find I need them and one will be on my wife’s Elan 7 so we can swap. I am seriously thinking of replacing the 17-35(which is my favorite nature / travel lens with a Contax G2 with some collection of 16mm through 45mm lenses. This will put much less strain on my neck by days end. Dave I also carry the 17-28 2.8L and the 28-135 IS (even though I don’t like the lens), but where you have the 70-200 4.0L and some TCs, I have an 85 1.2L and a 100-400 4-5.6L. I don’t have any TCs and am nervous about getting one as I worry that I’ll be too disappointed in the optical quality. Hmm, at the risk of this sounding like a clone club, I usually have a 17-35 f/2.8L, a 28-135 f/4-5.6 IS and a 100-400 f/4.5-5.6L IS. If only I could leave it there, but no, I usually have to add a Sigma 14mm, a TS-E 24 f/3.5, and a 35 f/1.4 (if doing interiors) plus a 1.4x TC and maybe a spare body. Before I replaced some earlier lenses with these heavier ones, I would regularly have a Mamiya 6 outfit (body plus 3 lenses) in the same bag. No wonder I have spent so much on chiropractors in the last year or so! Think I need a spare body too (usually known as my wife). — David Littlewood

– *  Charles Richmond    Integrated International Systems Corporation   * *  UNIX Internals, I18N, L10N, X, Realtime Imaging, and  Custom S/W   * *         131 Bishop’s Forest Drive , Waltham , Ma. USA 02452         * *  (781) 647 2269   FAX (781) 647 3665   Cellular (617) 504 3379      *

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it’s been awhile since I’ve done photography but I’ve decided I want to take it up as a hobby again. After much research, I’ve decided to go with the F100. [...] 80-200 AFD 2.8 – A little heavy but it’s a alot more versatile when you’re hiking and don’t want to stop and change lenses or have the space to compose 28mm f2.8- A good overall landscape lens to complement the 80-200. 35mm f2- General prime that will be on the F100 for those candid group shots of the kids…playing, birthdays, etc

I carry a 24mm 2.8f, 105mm 2.8f micro for my fixed lenses, and the cheap-but-light 28-80mm 4.0-5.6f zoom and the 70-300mm zoom. A couple extension rings and a 1.4x TC and some filters get me where I want to go. The F100 is a great body. Enjoy. Greg

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it’s been awhile since I’ve done photography but I’ve decided I want to take it up as a hobby again. After much research, I’ve decided to go with the F100. My shooting habits right now will be of 3 things-nature (when I go hiking) and candid shots of the kids playing or group shots. Photo gurus- what do you think of my selection or would you modify it. All suggestions and feedback welcome 80-200 AFD 2.8 – A little heavy but it’s a alot more versatile when you’re hiking and don’t want to stop and change lenses or have the space to compose 28mm f2.8- A good overall landscape lens to complement the 80-200. 35mm f2- General prime that will be on the F100 for those candid group shots of the kids…playing, birthdays, etc

I take a 24, a 50 and a 100 for all that. And two bodies. One for b&w; one for slide. Just for the odd occasion I add a 2x converter. And a 12 mm macro tube. There are of course (macro) zoom lenses covering 24 to 100mm. For shooting negative they are fine. Not for slides imho. A zoom is more versatile, but not a lot. More important: look ahead: see your photo opportunity coming and have your complete camera ready. All set at the right speed, opening and distance. There is a *lot* more in one’s bag beside lenses. Keep the total weight as low as possible. If you can carry more, take more film! Here’s what’s in my bag: http://www.xs4all.nl/~wiskerke/artikelen/bag1.html – lots of small items — http://www.wiskerke.com

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Great choice on the F100. This summer my standard hiking setup was the AF-S 80-200, AI-S 105 micro, AI 50mm f1.4, AI-S 20mm f2.8 and a Kenko Pro 1.4X. I use the LowPro Mini-Treker to carry all this, often with a Slik 804CF and SB-28.. For vacation travel, I bring the 24-120 and AI 50mm f1.4. For candids I like the AF-S 28-70 f2.8. Mark – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – it’s been awhile since I’ve done photography but I’ve decided I want to take it up as a hobby again. After much research, I’ve decided to go with the F100. My shooting habits right now will be of 3 things-nature (when I go hiking) and candid shots of the kids playing or group shots. Photo gurus- what do you think of my selection or would you modify it. All suggestions and feedback welcome 80-200 AFD 2.8 – A little heavy but it’s a alot more versatile when you’re hiking and don’t want to stop and change lenses or have the space to compose 28mm f2.8- A good overall landscape lens to complement the 80-200. 35mm f2- General prime that will be on the F100 for those candid group shots of the kids…playing, birthdays, etc

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Two pentax cameras ZX30 & ZX7 35-80mm zoom.  This lens gets a lot of flack in this group but I love its ability to compose family shots. 28mm f28 for landscape. 100-300mm for nature & wildlife. 50mm f1.7 for low light. 500mm f8 mirror lens.  A new toy I just bought to play with.  It was cheap and it really has a reach.  Quality is not really expected but still an unknown.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t have any lenses in my bag. Two years ago I bought a really nice camera body to start me off on my picture taking. Hopefully, in a few years I will be able to afford a nice lens. Until then I am practicing pointing the camera, pushing the shutter button smoothly and taking notes on thing I see that might make a good picture. – the photo guy. PG, you are not taking this thing seriously. Glue a piece of kitchen foil across the lens mounting ring on your body, make a small hole in it with a needle, and you can have a lens for free, you will *never* need to waste any more money. If you put it on a couple of concentric cardboard tubes you can have a zoom lens of pretty well any effective focal length you like, with *no change in quality* (how about that, a zoom that’s *exactly* as good optically as a fixed focal length lens). And you will have no problem with bo-ke, as all the scene will be in focus, every time (well, kind of). — David Littlewood

Why practice w/ the camera at all – Einstein once said that "imagination is more important than knowledge", imagination’s also a better film than Kodak, Fuji, Agfa, Konica, Imation/3M, etc. put together and it has better bokeh and is cheaper than any pinhole/zoom lens – and get this… "you never run out of film to you run out of thoughts" (I said this and I imagined myself saying it too, therefore I have a free picture w/o any camera, film, flashcards or IBM micro-drives being used) … Descartes, Earl of Broken Watches… "I think therefore I am, I imagine therefore I’m late (even if I imagine I’m early)" Lewis I’ve set (anti-spam) controls to allow in only people on my list. If you want to be on my list contact me through the newsgroup. I regret the inconvenience. Thanks. Check out my photos at "LEWISVISION": http://members.aol.com/Lewisvisn/home.htm

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Question:

And, there are plenty of obnoxious people who aren’t wealthy. Snoop

Is it really necessary or proper to talk about me behind my back in a public forum? Op

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Nothing funny about that IMO.

I didn’t say *you* would think it was funny. <g But I do. Kind of like moving to a whorehouse to be around pretty girls – you have to put up with the occasional customer. — Charlie…

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  I fished the Bighorn on Wed & Thurs.

I’m jealous! Usually, I get over there for a few days this time of year, but it doesn’t look like I’ll make it this spring. I have no idea how one would go about fishing a dry with all of the stuff on the water.

I’ll occassionally use a parachute-style with a flourescent orange post. You might be surprised. There were some dirty orange scuds and one black leach about 3 inches long.

Streamers. Big, ugly, heavy streamers… on a sink-tip…swinging and stripping….swing and stripping (could be new lines for another song, Warren) We saw a few sports at the cafe that were really decked out.

You gotta love Polly’s! A great place to eat…..and probably the only place in the state where they’d look at you funny if you WEREN’T wearing waders. I’ll bet the pressure is on the guides to get these high rollers some fish. Kevin and I derived some perverse pleasure in catching fish right in front of the high rollers while the guide was trying to help them get a cast out at least 10 feet:)

There is NOTHING more frustrating than to have fish slurping away in front of you and your people just CANNOT put it together to get the fly past the oar. AAARRRGGGHHH! On a side note: Did they all have on the big "hair ball" "bazooka blobs" "exploding fireworks" kinda strike indicators that you can see for a gazillion feet??? — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana http://www.montana.com/dno 406-626-4022

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I’ll occassionally use a parachute-style with a flourescent orange post. You might be surprised.

  Good idea.  I should have thought of that.  I did have one fish come close to taking my flor. green strike indicator.  I’ll give it a try next time I go. You gotta love Polly’s! A great place to eat…..and probably the only place in the state where they’d look at you funny if you WEREN’T wearing waders.

  I like it because it’s a cheap place to stay in the off season.  The food’s pretty good, too, but a little overpriced.  I had the steak sandwich Wed. night.  It was really good but didn’t "sit well" and I was up half the night.  Meat tenderizer?  The really cheap rooms at the cafe were booked so Kevin and I got the trailer.  That costs $36.00/head but it was nice and roomy.  I think you could sleep 8 or 9 people there but I’ll bet they close it up and winterize for the off season. On a side note: Did they all have on the big "hair ball" "bazooka blobs" "exploding fireworks" kinda strike indicators that you can see for a gazillion feet???

  Yes, there were quite a few of those on the river.  I tried them once and didn’t like them.  I use the larger foam floats with the slit down the side and a piece of rubber through the center.  They seem to cast better for me, are easily adjustable and always float.  What’s the deal with the giant fluff balls?  No wonder so many people have trouble casting in the wind.  Wouldn’t they get along better with the more streamlined floats?   Also, as a guide, do you have any humorous stories to tell?  I think most guides must earn every penny.  Looks like a tough life to me.  Also looks like a good way to turn an enjoyable hobby into drudgery. Snoop — —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

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I didn’t say *you* would think it was funny. <g But I do. Kind of like moving to a whorehouse to be around pretty girls – you have to put up with the occasional customer.

Well, whatever floats your boat there Charlie.

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Well, whatever floats your boat there Charlie.

I don’t think it’s my boat that’s bothering you… — Charlie…

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Nothing funny about that IMO. I didn’t say *you* would think it was funny. <g But I do. Kind of like moving to a whorehouse to be around pretty girls – you have to put up with the occasional customer.

As one of the very people you described (first visited here for the fishing and camping, then moved here for the fishing and camping), I agree with you that it’s funny.  What’s even funnier is that we don’t really mind the tourists, despite our griping, as long as they remain tourists.  What really, really, really annoys us is when they want move here like we did. JR

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As one of the very people you described (first visited here for the fishing and camping, then moved here for the fishing and camping), I agree with you that it’s funny.  What’s even funnier is that we don’t really mind the tourists, despite our griping, as long as they remain tourists.  What really, really, really annoys us is when they want move here like we did.

You should see how annoyed the whorehouses get under similar circumstances ! TL MC

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As one of the very people you described (first visited here for the fishing and camping, then moved here for the fishing and camping), I agree with you that it’s funny.  What’s even funnier is that we don’t really mind the tourists, despite our griping, as long as they remain tourists.  What really, really, really annoys us is when they want move here like we did.

That’s funny. How about it, Warren? Do you have a come back? (I’m saying that as an unapologetic, recent, fair-weather Idaho transplant.) Where do you live, JR? — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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 What really, really, really annoys us is when they want move here like we did.

Yep. I hope to share that feeling about someplace, someday. <g — Charlie…

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Where do you live, JR?

Bend, Oregon, which was a wonderful place before I arrived, became a true paradise on earth for a while after I got here, and is now a stinking hell hole, altogether a far, far less attractive place than many I can think of in Idaho and Montana. JR

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As one of the very people you described (first visited here for the fishing and camping, then moved here for the fishing and camping), I agree with you that it’s funny.  What’s even funnier is that we don’t really mind the tourists, despite our griping, as long as they remain tourists.  What really, really, really annoys us is when they want move here like we did. You should see how annoyed the whorehouses get under similar circumstances !

I dunno, amateur night at the local is always an " uplifting " experience. — Don Thompson Another Thompson Scion – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – TL MC

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That’s funny. How about it, Warren? Do you have a come back? (I’m saying that as an unapologetic, recent, fair-weather Idaho transplant.)

Yeah I have a come back.  You got to draw the line somewhere so I move that we start with RW. ~ Seriously though, JR is right to some degree.  When you move somewhere and become accustomed to a certain quality of living, you have to do what you can to protect it.  If I moved to an area because it was remote, had everything that I wanted and the very reasons why I moved here were threatened due to overcrowding, you better believe I am going to bitch when things start getting crowded. Most of it isn’t so much the number of people but the quality around here. Californians are equated as being liberal tree huggers who want their 20 acre "ranch" along the river and despise the stream access laws.  It is somewhat true, but there are a lot of people from back East who are far worse in my experiences.  It is a more a quality of the people coming issue. Natives don’t give me any crap for being an ex resident of California because I hold many of the same views as they do and am not a threat to the quality of life. Now that I am a resident and have been for several years, am bound to this valley by blood that I cannot leave, I am somewhat trapped.  I do not make any money off tourism and never have.  Tourists decend in hoards upon the rivers that I fish year around and force me to either brave the masses or fish somewhere else.  It doesn’t bother me too much because I don’t go the rivers where I feel like I can’t fish.  I have plenty of places to fish, even on the crowded rivers, that see fewer people. In some areas it is a problem and that isn’t just me saying that.  That is the opinion of users of the resources when polled by the DFW.  The Beaverhead is a prime example of that.  I think I told the story about how I was there opening day last year and the place was so crowded you couldn’t even find a campsite.  Two Montana plates, the rest from out of state. My take on this, and Charlie can laugh if he wants to, is that I am a resident.  I pay taxes here, I live here, the water was deeded over to the state by the federal government (if you need legal citings, I can provide them).  It is property of the state, not the union.  Our state Constitution is not applicable to residents of other states in regards to property.  Just like you don’t go by Montana property laws if you live outside of Montana and we don’t go by other state’s laws.  Being a resident and being governed by the state Constitution and the laws of Montana, I should have a greater right to the water than someone from out of state.  It is a right under our Constitution, BTW. I am not calling for an outright ban on out of state anglers or anything like that, just some limits so that residents of this state can enjoy what is theirs once in a while.  I was hoping they were going to either give river permits on a limited basis on crowded waters to out of state anglers, or set aside certain days for residents.  There is only one river that I have fished where this is necessary and that is the Beaverhead.  The Big Horn is a much larger river and even when crowded, I have never felt like I was lacking water to fish.  Same thing on the Madison.  I find there is plenty of water to fish and only a few areas that are really crowded to the point where there are problems and the quality of the experience is diminished due to the crowds.  The whole issue of crowds is a seasonal case anyways.  I always have the winters to enjoy being one of the few people on a river, if not the only person. That’s my story and I am sticking to it. <g — Warren Findley Shut up and fish! For Yellowstone Clave info: http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt/YNP.html

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Bend, Oregon, which was a wonderful place before I arrived, became a true paradise on earth for a while after I got here, and is now a stinking hell hole, altogether a far, far less attractive place than many I can think of in Idaho and Montana.

That’s just an outright lie.  Idaho is the best place to be.  Montana is scorched Earth, whirling disease desimated trout streams, New Zealand mud snail infested, and dirt poor.  Idaho on the other hand isn’t as bad off. Oregon is the best place in the world to be though.  They have good paying jobs, excellent hunting and their fishing is one of the best kept secrets in the lower 48. HTH — Warren Findley Shut up and fish! For Yellowstone Clave info: http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt/YNP.html

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Bend, Oregon, which was a wonderful place before I arrived, became a true paradise on earth for a while after I got here, and is now a stinking hell hole, altogether a far, far less attractive place than many I can think of in Idaho and Montana. That’s just an outright lie.  Idaho is the best place to be.  Montana is scorched Earth, whirling disease desimated trout streams, New Zealand mud snail infested, and dirt poor.  Idaho on the other hand isn’t as bad off. Oregon is the best place in the world to be though.  They have good paying jobs, excellent hunting and their fishing is one of the best kept secrets in the lower 48. HTH

Well, there’s another damnable lie (about Oregon, the Calcutta of the West), but at least it’s offset by the God’s honest truth about Idaho: the new Jerusalem, brothers, an Elysian utopia with trout the size of snowmobiles and blissful citizens (of the very highest ethical standards, mind you) ready to welcome their fellow sportsmen with open arms.  Every fishing and hunting guide a nubile ex-cheerleader who makes Angie look like Howard Stern.  Every publican and shopkeeper a source of freely shared information– earned over a lifetime–about honey holes where the steelhead chase each other off in order to be the first to impale themselves on your hook. Fishing in Oregon?!?!  Oh, my.  A long time ago, maybe.  Now you could catch more fish out of the average toilet bowl in New York City, son.  And even that was before the Terrible Drought of 2001, a sure harbinger of impending ecological collapse.  These days, before you can tie on a fly in Oregon you have to file an environmental impact statement.  Hell’s bells. Everyone *here* is moving to Idaho! JR

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It’s also funny to see people who live in states that make a bunch of money from tourism bitch about tourists, especially the ones who were tourists there once themselves. <g

I don’t make any money off of tourism either directly or indirectly and haven’t been any tourist related industries.  I moved to Montana without ever coming as a tourist.  I got accepted to school out here, had relatives who used to live out here and moved based on pictures, school, and their opinion of the place, and the promises of good fishing and hunting.  I am now a legal resident, have been for 5 years, I was married here, my daughter was born here and I am trapped here until my daughter gets older.  Nothing funny about that IMO. — Warren Findley Shut up and fish! For Yellowstone Clave info: http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt/YNP.html

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A few more trips and you will have a new definition of crowded.  Glad you caught lots of fish, always makes the trip more enjoyable.  I hear you on the high rollers who can’t cast.  Catching fish in front of them is always a blast and I am happy you got that experience

  Oh, yeah, you have some experience being in a boat with a tyro who couldn’t cast, don’t you?  Did your "line welts" heal up?   I’m afraid I came off anti elitist.  It’s not any of my business how much someone wants to spend on their hobby.  They aren’t any different from you or me.  They just want to have fun.  Of course, they can buy a lot more fun than a lot of us:)  Still, I can’t help suffering from some smug satisfaction when I catch fish on my $40.00 Three Forks while they flail away with their $2,500 bamboo rods.  (Heck, I’m still trying to save money for one of G’s moderately priced bamboo rods.)  Once I get my last daughter out of college I may be able to splurge a bit.  My goal in life is to end up like Charlie—-80 rods with a deluxe reel for each one.  But, I won’t take it as far as he does.  You know, long finger nails, long gray beard and hair, sleeps with all his rods, wears a white gown and sprays everyone and everything with disinfectant spray and designs large, wooden airplanes:) Snoop —

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The ones that crack me up are those that think their money will get them fish.  My buddy that guided in Idaho last summer had some stories about several rich, stuck up people who didn’t want to learn how to do things the right way, but thought that the gear they bought and the money they spent on a trip guaranteed them success.  Money does not equate with skill or success and it is hard for these people to realize that.  When I see them out there flailing the water into a froth giving dirty looks to their guides as if it is his fault, I get a laugh.  Especially after I pull out fish right in front of them.  It isn’t that I am against people with money who fish, hell I fish with RW don’t I?

  Anyone, wealthy or not, who goes to the expense and time to travel to fish with a guide and doesn’t take local advice gets what they deserve. I have a good friend who guided in Alaska for 20+ years.  Had a couple of jet boats and a Cessna 180 on floats.  He guided hunters and fishermen.  We’ve sat around a few campfires and listened to his stories.  Very interesting.  The hunters were the worst.  Generally, the fishermen were easier to be around.  The bear stories were hair raising and I don’t think I care to fly with any Alaska bush pilots.  (Well, actually, I don’t like flying with anyone else but my friend who’s a retired 747 pilot.) It is the attitude of the rich, stuck up snobs that I enjoy tweaking.  I have met several people who had tons of money out fishing and were actually very eager to learn and asked lots of questions.  Those types of people I like, very down to earth and just willing to learn because they love fly fishing.  It is the ones who have to announce to an entire fly shop that they need to use their Platinum card to buy half dozen flies as if we should be impressed that they have a Platinum card that piss me off, the ones like Peter posted about at one of the fly shops he goes to with the guy’s buddy looking at a reel, etc.  I enjoy watching them suffer when they go fishless because they are too stubborn and stuck up to listen to the "hired help" or "riff raff".  They are out there and certainly do exist.  I have found the Big Horn to have a high concentration of those types of people.

  Yep, those are the people who rub me the wrong way.  But, they’re not necessarily rich.  A lot of those clowns are up to their necks in credit card debt and are one pay check away from losing cars, houses and their mistresses.  And, there are plenty of obnoxious people who aren’t wealthy. Snoop —

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 I enjoy watching them suffer when they go fishless because they are too stubborn and stuck up to listen to the "hired help" or "riff raff".  They are out there and certainly do exist.  I have found the Big Horn to have a high concentration of those types of people.

It’s also funny to see people who live in states that make a bunch of money from tourism bitch about tourists, especially the ones who were tourists there once themselves. <g — Charlie…

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My goal in life is to end up like Charlie—-80 rods with a deluxe reel for each one.  But, I won’t take it as far as he does.  You know, long finger nails, long gray beard and hair, sleeps with all his rods, wears a white gown and sprays everyone and everything with disinfectant spray and designs large, wooden airplanes:)

    That’s my late uncle Howie you’re describing. I helped him write his will, but I don’t want to be like him.

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  Oh, yeah, you have some experience being in a boat with a tyro who couldn’t cast, don’t you?  Did your "line welts" heal up?

Yeah, the line welts went away and the lump from getting nailed by split shot and bead heads eventually went away also.   I’m afraid I came off anti elitist.  It’s not any of my business how much someone wants to spend on their hobby.  They aren’t any different from you or me.  They just want to have fun.  Of course, they can buy a lot more fun than a lot of us:)  Still, I can’t help suffering from some smug satisfaction when I catch fish on my $40.00 Three Forks while they flail away with their $2,500 bamboo rods.

The ones that crack me up are those that think their money will get them fish.  My buddy that guided in Idaho last summer had some stories about several rich, stuck up people who didn’t want to learn how to do things the right way, but thought that the gear they bought and the money they spent on a trip guaranteed them success.  Money does not equate with skill or success and it is hard for these people to realize that.  When I see them out there flailing the water into a froth giving dirty looks to their guides as if it is his fault, I get a laugh.  Especially after I pull out fish right in front of them.  It isn’t that I am against people with money who fish, hell I fish with RW don’t I? It is the attitude of the rich, stuck up snobs that I enjoy tweaking.  I have met several people who had tons of money out fishing and were actually very eager to learn and asked lots of questions.  Those types of people I like, very down to earth and just willing to learn because they love fly fishing.  It is the ones who have to announce to an entire fly shop that they need to use their Platinum card to buy half dozen flies as if we should be impressed that they have a Platinum card that piss me off, the ones like Peter posted about at one of the fly shops he goes to with the guy’s buddy looking at a reel, etc.  I enjoy watching them suffer when they go fishless because they are too stubborn and stuck up to listen to the "hired help" or "riff raff".  They are out there and certainly do exist.  I have found the Big Horn to have a high concentration of those types of people. — Warren Findley Shut up and fish! For Yellowstone Clave info: http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt/YNP.html

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  I fished the Bighorn on Wed & Thurs.  It was a great trip.  I caught 9 fish on Wed. and 18 on Thursday.  That’s more like it!  

Thanks for the report. I also find larger rivers more difficult to fish (and less fun) than smaller waters. It is more like lake fishing to me. Since they are so large and usually so deep, fish holding and feeding areas often must be inferred rather than observed. A low gradient river like the Bighorn is even more difficult. Willi

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Thanks for the report. I also find larger rivers more difficult to fish (and less fun) than smaller waters. It is more like lake fishing to me. Since they are so large and usually so deep, fish holding and feeding areas often must be inferred rather than observed. A low gradient river like the Bighorn is even more difficult. Willi

  One of the biggest problems I face is the amount of weight needed to fish deeper holes and/or fast current. Slinging all that weight with an indicator and dropper fly all day in the wind is not my idea of great fun. Snoop —

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A few more trips and you will have a new definition of crowded.  Glad you caught lots of fish, always makes the trip more enjoyable.  I hear you on the high rollers who can’t cast.  Catching fish in front of them is always a blast and I am happy you got that experience

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   I fished the Bighorn on Wed & Thurs.  It was a great trip.  I caught 9 fish on Wed. and 18 on Thursday.  That’s more like it!  As I said in another post, I couldn’t believe the number (tons ?) of midges on the water and in the air.  With all of the midges available, we saw very little surface action.  I have no idea how one would go about fishing a dry with all of the stuff on the water.  Perhaps an unrelated, larger fly like a Royal Wulff?   All of the action for us was on nymphs, scuds or midge pupa.  One of the hottest flies was the brown/tan thread body, black thread head that I learned about at the San Juan clave tied on size 20 & 22 hooks.  The guy that I was fishing with (Kevin) kept a few Browns and checked stomach contents.  Most of the contents were the little brown/gray midge pupa.  There were some dirty orange scuds and one black leach about 3 inches long.  We caught about half browns and half bows.  No whitefish this time.   We floated from 3 mile to Bighorn both days.  The river was crowded but I guess I’m getting more used to it. We did fish one side channel that was too shallow for drift boats and spent a lot of time there both days.  We had no one else fish through so it was quite enjoyable.  This was probably the best area we fished on this trip.  I think this kind of water is easier to fish.  The main river just seems so big and intimidating and I have a hard time knowing where to start to fish. There’s just so many choices.  It seems like a lot of places I think are "fishy" don’t have any fish that I can catch.   I spent a lot of time watching other fishermen and the guides.  Kind of a fun pastime but probably responsible for a lot of missed fish.  We saw 2 beautiful wood drift boats that looked like they came off the showroom floor.  It was interesting watching all of the different experience levels of fishermen.  It seemed like there were a lot of novices on the stream these 2 days.  We saw a few sports at the cafe that were really decked out.  Looked like they just fell off the cover of a LL Bean catalog.  Some of those guys had more money invested in one rod that I have in all my fishing gear.  I guess a few of the resorts up there are $500/day.  I’d like to visit with a few of those guys just to see what they think about the whole deal.  I imagine flying into Billings from big cities in the east or west would be kind of a mind blower.  Wonder what they thought when they traveled through the "beautiful" town of Lodge Grass or finally arrived at Ft Smith?  I’ll bet they felt like they were at the end of the world.  I’ll bet the pressure is on the guides to get these high rollers some fish.  Kevin and I derived some perverse pleasure in catching fish right in front of the high rollers while the guide was trying to help them get a cast out at least 10 feet:)  Of course, we were all the style what with our North Dakota drift boat (20 year old John boat) and our flashy dress (we looked like all of the roffers I’ve met at claves with the exception of Charlie who is always spiffed up to a "T", I suppose in case he runs across a high class book store or brothel).   I suppose that’s my last trip to the Horn until late fall.  We should be thawing at the higher elevations shortly around here and I’ll be going to work in a couple of weeks which will really raise hell with fishing for awhile:( Snoop —

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  I fished the Bighorn on Wed & Thurs.  It was a great trip.  I caught 9 fish on Wed. and 18 on Thursday.  That’s more like it!  As I said in another post, I couldn’t believe the number (tons ?) of midges on the water and in the air.  With all of the midges available, we saw very little surface action.  I have no idea how one would go about fishing a dry with all of the stuff on the water.  Perhaps an unrelated, larger fly like a Royal Wulff?   All of the action for us was on nymphs, scuds or midge pupa.  One of the hottest flies was the brown/tan thread body, black thread head that I learned about at the San Juan clave tied on size 20 & 22 hooks.  The guy that I was fishing with (Kevin) kept a few Browns and checked stomach contents.  Most of the contents were the little brown/gray midge pupa.  There were some dirty orange scuds and one black leach about 3 inches long.  We caught about half browns and half bows.  No whitefish this time.   We floated from 3 mile to Bighorn both days.  The river was crowded but I guess I’m getting more used to it. We did fish one side channel that was too shallow for drift boats and spent a lot of time there both days.  We had no one else fish through so it was quite enjoyable.  This was probably the best area we fished on this trip.  I think this kind of water is easier to fish.  The main river just seems so big and intimidating and I have a hard time knowing where to start to fish. There’s just so many choices.  It seems like a lot of places I think are "fishy" don’t have any fish that I can catch.   I spent a lot of time watching other fishermen and the guides.  Kind of a fun pastime but probably responsible for a lot of missed fish.  We saw 2 beautiful wood drift boats that looked like they came off the showroom floor.  It was interesting watching all of the different experience levels of fishermen.  It seemed like there were a lot of novices on the stream these 2 days.  We saw a few sports at the cafe that were really decked out.  Looked like they just fell off the cover of a LL Bean catalog.  Some of those guys had more money invested in one rod that I have in all my fishing gear.  I guess a few of the resorts up there are $500/day.  I’d like to visit with a few of those guys just to see what they think about the whole deal.  I imagine flying into Billings from big cities in the east or west would be kind of a mind blower.  Wonder what they thought when they traveled through the "beautiful" town of Lodge Grass or finally arrived at Ft Smith?  I’ll bet they felt like they were at the end of the world.  I’ll bet the pressure is on the guides to get these high rollers some fish.  Kevin and I derived some perverse pleasure in catching fish right in front of the high rollers while the guide was trying to help them get a cast out at least 10 feet:)  Of course, we were all the style what with our North Dakota drift boat (20 year old John boat) and our flashy dress (we looked like all of the roffers I’ve met at claves with the exception of Charlie who is always spiffed up to a "T", I suppose in case he runs across a high class book store or brothel).   I suppose that’s my last trip to the Horn until late fall.  We should be thawing at the higher elevations shortly around here and I’ll be going to work in a couple of weeks which will really raise hell with fishing for awhile:( Snoop —

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Question:

But now, everyone knows I am a Tube Freak.  I read an article in Bassmaster Magazine on Weightless fishing French Fries.  So I tried it today with a tube.  Used my 7′ MH Loomis spinning rod with 8 pound Trilene XT (Green) line, and a 3/0 Owner wide gap offset hook.  Weedless hooked the 3-1/2" tube.  Now the wind was blowing 15-20 mph steadily this morning.  So my first couple of casts drifted way off target, until I got use to the super slow (3-4 seconds a foot) fall of this rig.  I had to cast 50-60 feet to one side of the target and then let the lure drift in.  Boy if you are impatient at all, this is not the rig for you!  But it really works!  The rig is so light that you feel nothing, so when you feel anything, SET THE HOOK!  I lost a few at first until I started setting the hook on the slightest bump. You can’t tell if you just bumped a weed, rock, log, or if there is a big bad bass on the other end.  It is weird, but I caught more fish today because of this rig. I threw a spinnerbait, weighted tube, jig-n-pig, lipless crank, and caught fish on all of them, but no way near what I was catching on this weightless rig.  I like the results, but hate the slowest of the rig and the no feel part of it.  I like to feel and know what my lure is doing, but you can’t with this rig.  Try it, it works, and yes it will drive you crazy getting use to it. — Tourney Bassin Directory Maximizing the Bass Angler’s Internet Experience! http://qba.home.att.net/

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I sometimes fish small (4" or less)weightless plastics on a Fly Rod and most of the flys I fish are much lighter than the plastics. The key , atleast for me has been to keep my rod tip pointed at the fly ,plastic or otherwise,(boy that would start a argument) and really concentrate on not letting any slack between me and the fly. I really have to pay attention to what I’m doing, but if the bass are shallow man!! They just can’t stand it. Charles – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – But now, everyone knows I am a Tube Freak.  I read an article in Bassmaster Magazine on Weightless fishing French Fries.  So I tried it today with a tube.  Used my 7′ MH Loomis spinning rod with 8 pound Trilene XT (Green) line, and a 3/0 Owner wide gap offset hook.  Weedless hooked the 3-1/2" tube.  Now the wind was blowing 15-20 mph steadily this morning.  So my first couple of casts drifted way off target, until I got use to the super slow (3-4 seconds a foot) fall of this rig.  I had to cast 50-60 feet to one side of the target and then let the lure drift in.  Boy if you are impatient at all, this is not the rig for you!  But it really works!  The rig is so light that you feel nothing, so when you feel anything, SET THE HOOK!  I lost a few at first until I started setting the hook on the slightest bump. You can’t tell if you just bumped a weed, rock, log, or if there is a big bad bass on the other end.  It is weird, but I caught more fish today because of this rig. I threw a spinnerbait, weighted tube, jig-n-pig, lipless crank, and caught fish on all of them, but no way near what I was catching on this weightless rig.  I like the results, but hate the slowest of the rig and the no feel part of it.  I like to feel and know what my lure is doing, but you can’t with this rig.  Try it, it works, and yes it will drive you crazy getting use to it. — Tourney Bassin Directory Maximizing the Bass Angler’s Internet Experience! http://qba.home.att.net/

Response:

Tourney; We been doing this for several years in the west. It works real well. You might try the spider grubs also. Good fishin * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

I also forgot to say, fish the slack line and don’t try to feel everything. Feel for the pressure or tightness in the line. I’ll bet if you had been a little slower on your feel and waited for the presure, you would have hooked more fish.  Good luck with it. It’s a great tech. especially on pressured or inactive fish. * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

I especially like to fish this rig in clear water.  Not only because I think it is more natural, but I can see what my lure is doing.  You are correct about the feel.  It is hard to detect a strike and I missed many fish when I started fishing this rig.  Just remember to do like most plastics, point the rod tip at the lure, reel up slack and set the hook.  Just don’t take your time doing it. I like tube baits in a pearl, blue/black and I also fish worms rigged the same way and have been catching fish.  Most effective for post spawn fish, but I use it all year as well Spencer

Response:

Question:

…  got real sick.  bad stomach ache.  threw up a lot.  a real clear, slightly amber viscous vomitus.  bad gas pains. real cramping belly wrenchers.

That water probably wouldn’t be so bad without the absinthe. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

You know, if I ever have the big one….I hope I’m around you guys…..I mean I wouldn’t have to worry about extended efforts to prolong my life without regard to the quality of it….taint no mercy here!     john – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Personally, I like to use a died marabou I get at the local hobby shop. Yea: go with the died marabou. The live ones are ugly bastards and they’ve got bloody great sharp beaks! Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

Response:

Personally, I like to use a died marabou I get at the local hobby shop.

Yea: go with the died marabou. The live ones are ugly bastards and they’ve got bloody great sharp beaks! Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

Response:

_____  One of these days, I should probably reveal the greatest secret known to man regarding the deadliest WOOLLY BUGGER Pattern known.  I should probably do it for Flies of the World because that is where everyone will find it, but this is a moral dilemma!  Who does Catch & Release and how many (in secret and behind our backs) really are Catch & Killers!??  Ahhhhh, the question boggles the mind. I have been told by a friend that if I reveal this pattern (MickeyMouse-a code word known to only a few) I would probably be assassinated, ground up into flake food and used in all the aquariums owned by ROFFIANS!  (Who would chuckle in glee dispensing me even way past midnight!) I will instruct in my will to reveal this pattern if I don’t change my mind before hand.  This pattern will triple the tonnage for all the fly fishing killers in ROFF . . . thereby, making me immortal in the eyes of mine gill-sayers. Oh!  The price of glory and it is so fleeing!  The fish and the fly is gone leaving us once again with only tippet in hand. Isn’t life a bitch?! — Mr.G http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html

Response:

Personally, I like to use a died marabou I get at the local hobby shop.  The dark green tends to fade after you fish it for a while – giving it a streaked appearance like what would be on the carapace of a crawdad (crayfish) when twitched along the bottom. Pearl chenille works great for spring fishing, add a dash of flashabou in the white marabou tail for an extra attention getter. I almost always tie with a bead head, and sometimes a silver works better than a brass and visa versified. Sometimes I’ll make the body out of two colors of chenille…black and brown or perhaps use a contrasting hackle color. Often I’ll tie in a few bright red wispy hanging down strands of marabou in the tail, with maybe one or two coming off the body to give an impression of a minnow with his guts hanging out.  Called up Erie way a ‘bleeding minnow.’ If I’m planning on fishing it along the bottom, I’ll use a shorter hackle but for ripping it through the water I like a real long hackle to give plenty of pulsation. I use basically one size of hook but vary the length of the body and where I begin the tail. Having contrast helps avoid changing light conditions, and having to change colors so often Personally, I have to rank a wooly bugger right up there at the top of the list. john p.s. went steelhead fishing.  the water was real cold. before the sun came up the air was real cold.  shoulda had a net.  steelhead have teeth…..up around lake erie, they get their drinking water from the lake.   put a lotta chlorine in it.  got real sick.  bad stomach ache.  threw up a lot.  a real clear, slightly amber viscous vomitus.  bad gas pains. real cramping belly wrenchers.

Response:

Question:

Bob: <<I’ve been flyfishing a small gravel pond lake for bass and walleyes for a couple of years now. Everyday is different. Somedays, the largemouths are eager eaters, other days they won’t take anything. One technique I’ve been using with alot of success is to get into a rowboat and let the wind drift me across the lake…fly on a sinking line trolling at the wind’s speed. Surprisingly, alot of bass take the fly. Yesterday at sun’s zenith, I stopped my drift and anchored in a spot where I thought some fat perch or walleyes might be hanging out. I cast the fast sink line with a red and brown glass-bead streamer about seventy feet out and let it sink to the bottom. A few quick jigs, and the old lady of the lake, the one I had heard about, ate. She took line and bent the 6 wgt. GLoomis so the tip was touching the water. She was old and she was beautiful. Bob E. George? Dave LaCourse

Response:

Dave, No George anywhere near here. Just Bob, bobbing around Gravel Ponds Lake near Rochester, NY. Bob E.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Bob: <<I’ve been flyfishing a small gravel pond lake for bass and walleyes for a couple of years now. Everyday is different. Somedays, the largemouths are eager eaters, other days they won’t take anything. One technique I’ve been using with alot of success is to get into a rowboat and let the wind drift me across the lake…fly on a sinking line trolling at the wind’s speed. Surprisingly, alot of bass take the fly. Yesterday at sun’s zenith, I stopped my drift and anchored in a spot where I thought some fat perch or walleyes might be hanging out. I cast the fast sink line with a red and brown glass-bead streamer about seventy feet out and let it sink to the bottom. A few quick jigs, and the old lady of the lake, the one I had heard about, ate. She took line and bent the 6 wgt. GLoomis so the tip was touching the water. She was old and she was beautiful. Bob E. George? Dave LaCourse

Response:

Bob: <<No George anywhere near here. Just Bob, bobbing around Gravel Ponds Lake near Rochester, NY. Ahhhh, Rochester, NY.  Home of J.W. Dundee’s Honey Brown and other fine elixirs.  Not too far away from where Sleeman’s is brewed.   Dave L.

Response:

Dave, So many brews around here it makes the mind boggle. Bob E.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Bob: <<No George anywhere near here. Just Bob, bobbing around Gravel Ponds Lake near Rochester, NY. Ahhhh, Rochester, NY.  Home of J.W. Dundee’s Honey Brown and other fine elixirs.  Not too far away from where Sleeman’s is brewed. Dave L.

Response:

Speaking of Dundee’s Honey Brown: Though it’s a mere lager, it’s a damned tasty one, and I confess that I’ve developed quite a jag for that stuff. And frankly speaking (Peter: avert thine eyes) prefer it to both of the Sleeman’s brews that – while very pleasant indeed and very much appreciated – lack the punch of the Dundee’s… There. I said it. I’ve been holding that back for weeks, but now it’s out there. /daytripper (sipping a Honey Brown even as I type this ;^)

        confession, tripper, is good for the soul.         wayno

Response:

Ahhhh, Rochester, NY.  Home of J.W. Dundee’s Honey Brown and other fine elixirs.  Not too far away from where Sleeman’s is brewed.

Speaking of Dundee’s Honey Brown: Though it’s a mere lager, it’s a damned tasty one, and I confess that I’ve developed quite a jag for that stuff. And frankly speaking (Peter: avert thine eyes) prefer it to both of the Sleeman’s brews that – while very pleasant indeed and very much appreciated – lack the punch of the Dundee’s… There. I said it. I’ve been holding that back for weeks, but now it’s out there. /daytripper (sipping a Honey Brown even as I type this ;^)

Response:

You are fortunate indeed, Tripper, that Peter is on holiday.  But there are other Sleeman’s afficianados around here to whom you will have to answer on judgment day, which will come sooner than you might think. Mark Faulkner – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – And frankly speaking (Peter: avert thine eyes) prefer it to both of the Sleeman’s brews that – while very pleasant indeed and very much appreciated – lack the punch of the Dundee’s… There. I said it. I’ve been holding that back for weeks, but now it’s out there. /daytripper (sipping a Honey Brown even as I type this ;^)

Response:

You are fortunate indeed, Tripper, that Peter is on holiday.  But there are other Sleeman’s afficianados around here to whom you will have to answer on judgment day, which will come sooner than you might think.

Yup, I reckon that I’ll have drawn the wrath of many sudsy souls hereabouts. Wouldn’t be the first time (and prolly won’t be the last ;^) As American politics points out repeatedly, the majority is often more wrong than right… Still…Dundee’s is an excellent substitute for the even hardier brews that I favor but that require a trip to the local pub to obtain. So I tip my second Honey Brown to you reprobates that drink beer from clear glass bottles. You know not what you do… /daytripper (hic!)

Response:

confession, tripper, is good for the soul. wayno

And beer is good for the kidneys ! But not if you hold it back for weeks ! I can not eat but little meat, my stomach is not good, but sure I think that I can drink, as much as any would, Let the back and the sides go bare me boys, let the hands and the feet grow cold, but give to the belly good ale enough, whether it be new or old ! TL MC

Response:

Mark Faulkner writes:

<<You are fortunate indeed, Tripper, that Peter is on holiday.  But there are other Sleeman’s afficianados around here to whom you will have to answer on judgment day, which will come sooner than you might think. Mark Faulkner Peter is on holiday and will spend the evening of the 6th with Jo and me.  I *know* he wouldn’t show up without any Sleeman’s, but whether or not I can make it to the fall ball with it is quite another thing.  Oh, yeah, I forgot.  I found *three* of the little devils in the fridge today.  Musta forgot about ‘em. There be only one left.  Come on August 6th……. You want I should bring some Dundee’s HBs to NC in October? Dave LaCourse

Response:

Well, you guys are making me homesick.  I was born in Rochester and grew up in Webster, Warsaw, Corning, Hornell and finally in Penn Yan, NY on Keuka Lake. For the past nineteen years I’ve been in the Navy, and recently my flies have been seeking fish in the warm tidal rivers, creeks and lakes of Hampton Roads, Virginia where we catch some real nice large mouth bass, Perch, Bluegills and such.  All great fun, but still not the same as our more Northern aquatic friends.  Anyhow, it’s good to hear the stories from back home, I’ll be back there in another year or so.  Take care all, and good fishing! Butch

Response:

Not so bad in my book, snagger.  Those bass can be outstanding on a fly rod, and the bluegills and perch are tasty indeed. Mark Faulkner – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, you guys are making me homesick.  I was born in Rochester and grew up in Webster, Warsaw, Corning, Hornell and finally in Penn Yan, NY on Keuka Lake. For the past nineteen years I’ve been in the Navy, and recently my flies have been seeking fish in the warm tidal rivers, creeks and lakes of Hampton Roads, Virginia where we catch some real nice large mouth bass, Perch, Bluegills and such.  All great fun, but still not the same as our more Northern aquatic friends.  Anyhow, it’s good to hear the stories from back home, I’ll be back there in another year or so.  Take care all, and good fishing! Butch

Response:

Butch writes:

<<Well, you guys are making me homesick.  I was born in Rochester and grew up in Webster, Warsaw, Corning, Hornell and finally in Penn Yan, NY on Keuka Lake. For the past nineteen years I’ve been in the Navy, and recently my flies have been seeking fish in the warm tidal rivers, creeks and lakes of Hampton Roads, Virginia where we catch some real nice large mouth bass, Perch, Bluegills and such.  All great fun, but still not the same as our more Northern aquatic friends.  Anyhow, it’s good to hear the stories from back home, I’ll be back there in another year or so.  Take care all, and good fishing! Welcome aboard, DeepSnag.  I retired from  Mother Nav in 1975.  There are other retirees in ROFF, and Tom Brown, a regular ROFF poster, has a son on USS Nicholas FFG47.  You’re with family.  ’Course, we got lots of no-account lawyers and folks with "edu" in their address, but as a whole, they’re pretty neat. They’re worth going fishing with, anyway.  Let’s hear more from you. Dave LaCourse, USN (Ret)

Response:

Well, you guys are making me homesick.  I was born in Rochester and grew up in Webster, Warsaw, Corning, Hornell and finally in Penn Yan, NY on Keuka Lake. For the past nineteen years I’ve been in the Navy, and recently my flies have been seeking fish in the warm tidal rivers, creeks and lakes of Hampton Roads, Virginia where we catch some real nice large mouth bass, Perch, Bluegills and such.  All great fun, but still not the same as our more Northern aquatic friends.  Anyhow, it’s good to hear the stories from back home, I’ll be back there in another year or so.  Take care all, and good fishing! Butch

Congratulations DeepSnag for sticking it out with the USN. I still remember the anticipation of counting down the years, months and days till retirement. Nothing like it. Best decision I ever made. Don’t know about you but my 20 yrs went by really fast. Frank Church Elkhart, IN USAF RETIRED

Response:

Welcome aboard, DeepSnag.  I retired from  Mother Nav in 1975.  There are other retirees in ROFF, and Tom Brown, a regular ROFF poster, has a son on USS Nicholas FFG47.  You’re with family.  ’Course, we got lots of no-account lawyers and folks with "edu" in their address, but as a whole, they’re pretty neat. They’re worth going fishing with, anyway.  Let’s hear more from you. Dave LaCourse, USN (Ret)

I’ll have to put in a plug for my son here…Navy Chaplain serving aboard the USS Rainier out of Bremerton, WA. I’m proud of this guy and wish he was geographically closer. He has plans to stay…another 7 yrs to retirement. Frank Church Elkhart, IN USAF RETIRED

Response:

I’ve been flyfishing a small gravel pond lake for bass and walleyes for a couple of years now. Everyday is different. Somedays, the largemouths are eager eaters, other days they won’t take anything. One technique I’ve been using with alot of success is to get into a rowboat and let the wind drift me across the lake…fly on a sinking line trolling at the wind’s speed. Surprisingly, alot of bass take the fly. Yesterday at sun’s zenith, I stopped my drift and anchored in a spot where I thought some fat perch or walleyes might be hanging out. I cast the fast sink line with a red and brown glass-bead streamer about seventy feet out and let it sink to the bottom. A few quick jigs, and the old lady of the lake, the one I had heard about, ate. She took line and bent the 6 wgt. GLoomis so the tip was touching the water. She was old and she was beautiful. Bob E.

Response:

Frank Church writes:

<<I’ll have to put in a plug for my son here…Navy Chaplain serving aboard the USS Rainier out of Bremerton, WA. I’m proud of this guy and wish he was geographically closer. He has plans to stay…another 7 yrs to retirement. Hey, congratulations, Frank.  I can imagine how  very proud you are of him.  The Rainier is an oiler (AOE), so I bet he is at sea a lot.  Does he also FF? Dave LaCourse

Response:

Frank Church writes: <<I’ll have to put in a plug for my son here…Navy Chaplain serving aboard the USS Rainier out of Bremerton, WA. I’m proud of this guy and wish he was geographically closer. He has plans to stay…another 7 yrs to retirement. Hey, congratulations, Frank.  I can imagine how  very proud you are of him.  The Rainier is an oiler (AOE), so I bet he is at sea a lot.  Does he also FF? Dave LaCourse

his third or 4th one. The assignment he liked best was being attached to the USMC as unit chaplain at Camp Lejuene..he got out there and humped on the marches and hikes with the grunts. On his way (with family) to Naples (?) for 3 yrs in Jan.  His job will be to travel all over Europe, sort of a military circuit rider. Man, am I jealous! Afraid he doesn’t FF…his avocation and vocation take up all his time and right now he has no interest in fishing of any kind. Frank Church Elkhart, IN USAF RETIRED

Response:

[deleted] So I tip my second Honey Brown to you reprobates that drink beer from clear glass bottles. You know not what you do…

[deleted] Honey in beer ! Egads man…have you no taste ?!?!?! Honey belongs on peanut butter sandwiches, not in beer. Your pal, — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

Response:

[deleted] So I tip my second Honey Brown to you reprobates that drink beer from clear glass bottles. You know not what you do… Honey in beer ! Egads man…have you no taste ?!?!?! Honey belongs on peanut butter sandwiches, not in beer.

Ah, if you only had a clue, Tim… /daytripper (tonite, it’s Concord Pale Ale, fresh from the brewery. Yummy!)

Response:

Question:

Billy If efficiency is your god, then stay with graphite.  If you’re a romantic . . .  I don’t have to finish the sentence. I have a Diawa 4/5 fly rod that is 5 1/2 times cheaper than my bamboo 4/5 and will out cast it.   Yet that has nothing to do why I like it or love the bamboo.  Others have said it better; you have to fish a good one to know. In a world that worships efficiency,  maybe it’s just our reaction against it.  Whatever it is, we aren’t about to question it.  We just fish. Peter

Response:

 there’s certainly more to fly fishing than casting a whole line with a graphite rod… Regards Jeff

        the only way i and 90% of the rest of us will be able to cast an entire line is to buy one, and then throw it as far as we can, while it’s still in the cradle.  i say fish what makes you smile. wayno

Response:

Harrison) writes: i say fish what makes you smile.

Cripes, you’re getting mellow, what happened? Wayne Knight (remove nospam to respond via mail) Expert in the creation of  wind knots and tailing loops.

Response:

Harrison) writes: i say fish what makes you smile. Cripes, you’re getting mellow, what happened? Wayne Knight (remove nospam to respond via mail) Expert in the creation of  wind knots and tailing loops.

    advancing age and the discovery of balvenie. wayno, chilling – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Wayno: <<(Wayne Harrison) writes: i say fish what makes you smile. Cripes, you’re getting mellow, what happened? Wayne Knight (remove nospam to respond via mail) Expert in the creation of  wind knots and tailing loops.

    advancing age and the discovery of balvenie. wayno, chilling Speaking of chilling……. last night I found two bottles of Sleeman’s in the cooler.  Totally forgotten.  Serendipitous!  I picked my first two tomatoes and had a couple of tom and lettuce sandwiches for lunch, washed down with TWO Sleeman’s.  It ain’t gonna get any better than this……d;0) Dave L. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Speaking of chilling……. last night I found two bottles of Sleeman’s in the cooler.  Totally forgotten.  Serendipitous!  I picked my first two tomatoes and had a couple of tom and lettuce sandwiches for lunch, washed down with TWO Sleeman’s.  It ain’t gonna get any better than this……d;0) Dave L.

You are absolutely correct, Dave.  Sadly, my Sleeman’s is long, long gone, and my tomatoes are shriveling in the drought. Mark Faulkner

Response:

Speaking of chilling……. last night I found two bottles of Sleeman’s in the cooler.  Totally forgotten.  Serendipitous!  I picked my first two tomatoes and had a couple of tom and lettuce sandwiches for lunch, washed down with TWO Sleeman’s.  It ain’t gonna get any better than this……d;0) Dave L.

dave, you are a cruel, cruel bastard. –waldo — Ezflyfish.com                 Blue Ridge Book Gallery Quality Gear & Service        Used & Out-of-Print Books http://www.ezflyfish.com      http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

Response:

Until you add some dilled Walla Walla sweets and cucumber slices to the sandwich. Speaking of chilling……. last night I found two bottles of Sleeman’s in the cooler.  Totally forgotten.  Serendipitous!  I picked my first two tomatoes and had a couple of tom and lettuce sandwiches for lunch, washed down with TWO Sleeman’s.  It ain’t gonna get any better than this……d;0) Dave L.

– Mike in PDX "When the trout are lost, smash the state."                          Tom McGuane

Response:

advancing age and the discovery of balvenie.

wait till I get some really good scotch in your blood stream vs just a good scotch, you’ll even start telling lawyer jokes. Wayne Knight (remove nospam to respond via mail) Expert in the creation of  wind knots and tailing loops.

Response:

Mike: <<Until you add some dilled Walla Walla sweets and cucumber slices to the sandwich. Speaking of chilling……. last night I found two bottles of Sleeman’s in the cooler.  Totally forgotten.  Serendipitous!  I picked my first two tomatoes and had a couple of tom and lettuce sandwiches for lunch, washed down with TWO Sleeman’s.  It ain’t gonna get any better than this……d;0)

Well, ya might have somethin there.  But I’ll take the pickles on the side and instead of cukes, and how about a thick slice of a hairy-assed Vidalia Onion.  Maybe a slice of *good* cheese? Dave LaCourse

Response:

I’m reading all the posts about bamboo fly rods.   Why would a person want a fly rod made from bamboo, when you can have a grafite rod? Bamboo just dose’nt make sense. — Sharp Hooks, Pat Holdzit Fishing Products Inc. http://www.holdzit.com Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

is this a troll? — Nicholas J. Slodki http://trampled.net/Nikolai0/

:I’m reading all the posts about bamboo fly rods.   Why would a person :want a fly rod made from bamboo, when you can have a grafite rod? :Bamboo just dose’nt make sense. : :– :Sharp Hooks, at :Holdzit Fishing Products Inc. :http://www.holdzit.com : : :Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Pat- You’d probably ask the same question about fiberglass. Obviously, you’ve never cast one! There’s nothing like the FEEL of casting a bamboo rod…it’s sort of a magical thing, actually allowing you to feel the "tug" of a line straightening out behind you and urging you to begin your forward cast. When nymphing with a bamboo rod, I’ve never had the urge to even consider using a strike indicator (read= bobber) as you can actually feel the nymph being picked up on a tight line while high-sticking a nymph through a riffle. There are some of us who began on bamboo, then out of need, migrated to fiberglass (lack of suppliers of decent bamboo rods at prices the "common man" could afford) and never even bothered with graphite, especially after trying the original graphite rods to hit the market….true buggy whips or telephone poles, nothing in between… along with the horror stories of graphite rods exploding when they got too cold and were tapped against the side of a boat or other hard object. I do own a couple of graphite rods now, but don’t consider them the primary pieces in my arsenal…my primaries are an old Granger bamboo and my Fenwick glass rods, but I do use the graphites also. You’d need to handle one streamside to undrstand is all I can say….maybe someday you’ll find an obliging fly fisherman on the water that’ll let you cast his bamboo or glass rod and then when you take your graphite back and make afew casts you’ll understand better. Larry #:)#

Response:

I’m reading all the posts about bamboo fly rods.   Why would a person want a fly rod made from bamboo, when you can have a grafite rod? Bamboo just dose’nt make sense.

If you are a slam bam thank you ma’m fisherman, tossing and in love with the latest greatest high modulus plastic rod, you’re right cane is not for you. I love cane rods because, and imo only, 1. A good cane rod is a result of someones labor of love as a craftsman not the result of some plastic rolling off of a sheet. 2. A good cane rod forces you to slow down and enjoy the experience. 3. A good cane rod is much more forgiving than a graphite rod to casting mistakes. 4. I believe they fish better, protect tippets better, lay down flies more delicately, 5. There’s a bit of nostalgia involved which for an aging baby boomer is kind of neat. 6.They’re made with mother natures own resources, so they’re probably more eco-friendly tho I have no scientific proof, but these are opinions . 7. The weight crap is overrated. They aren’t that heavy and it is great to feel the line lay out, they almost tell you when to begin the next stroke. Let’s see if I can put another way, using a cane rod to me is akin to sex, a cane rod is like having a loving romantic relationship over time which is much more fulfilling, a graphite rod is like having a one night stand, yea it feels good for a short time but once you shoot your load, there’s nothing left. I own more than my share of graphite rods, I use them, like them.but would not be devastated if I lost them. Take my cane tho, and I’ll have to kill you. My opinion only, but you asked. Wayne Knight (remove nospam to respond via mail) Expert in the creation of  wind knots and tailing loops.

Response:

It does when you have an old reel and silk line to go with it.  It is a real trip down memory lane. Ernie Harrison Like to make fly-fishing stuff?  See: http://users.ccnet.com/~emh/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m reading all the posts about bamboo fly rods.   Why would a person want a fly rod made from bamboo, when you can have a grafite rod? Bamboo just dose’nt make sense. — Sharp Hooks, Pat Holdzit Fishing Products Inc. http://www.holdzit.com Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Bamboo just dose’nt make sense.

Sure it dose. Bamboo, fiberglas & graphite all have plusses & minuses. It comes down to casting style and personal preference. I happen to think that bamboo is more forgiving of my lousy casting stroke. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Wayne Knight wrote … Let’s see if I can put another way, using a cane rod to me is akin to sex, a cane rod is like having a loving romantic relationship over time which is much more fulfilling, a graphite rod is like having a one night stand, yea it feels good for a short time but once you shoot your load, there’s nothing left.

Gee thanks.  Now I’ll feel cheap and tawdry next time I go fishing. Keith Brewster

Response:

Tradition, old timey feel. nose thumbing at technology, beauty, yankee pride. Dave

Response:

I do not have much cane experience.  I have an old Montague rod.  Maybe more espensive ones may end up with my mind changed. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m reading all the posts about bamboo fly rods.   Why would a person want a fly rod made from bamboo, when you can have a grafite rod? Bamboo just dose’nt make sense. If you are a slam bam thank you ma’m fisherman, tossing and in love with the latest greatest high modulus plastic rod, you’re right cane is not for you. I love cane rods because, and imo only, 1. A good cane rod is a result of someones labor of love as a craftsman not the result of some plastic rolling off of a sheet.

I don’t care about this.  How good is the tool? 2. A good cane rod forces you to slow down and enjoy the experience.

Given the kind of fishing I do, I need a fast rod. 3. A good cane rod is much more forgiving than a graphite rod to casting mistakes.

See 2 above. 4. I believe they fish better, protect tippets better, lay down flies more delicately,

Possibly. 5. There’s a bit of nostalgia involved which for an aging baby boomer is kind of neat. 6.They’re made with mother natures own resources, so they’re probably more eco-friendly tho I have no scientific proof, but these are opinions . 7. The weight crap is overrated. They aren’t that heavy and it is great to feel the line lay out, they almost tell you when to begin the next stroke.

I find the weight a serious problem.  After about half an hour of fishing, my arm is worn out.  It is not the weight of the rod, per se.  It is the moment of inertia. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Let’s see if I can put another way, using a cane rod to me is akin to sex, a cane rod is like having a loving romantic relationship over time which is much more fulfilling, a graphite rod is like having a one night stand, yea it feels good for a short time but once you shoot your load, there’s nothing left. I own more than my share of graphite rods, I use them, like them.but would not be devastated if I lost them. Take my cane tho, and I’ll have to kill you.

Response:

(BillyFish) writes: I do not have much cane experience.  I have an old Montague rod.  Maybe more espensive ones may end up with my mind changed.

It does not have to be a more expensive one, there are lots of old cheap Heddons, South Bends, Wright & McGills, Union Hardware, etc which were good rods and don’t command premium prices. I have a project rod which used pieces of Leonard rods for a 5 wt which for a cane is a cannon. I paid $300 for the rod. It may not say Leonard, but it is a Leonard. Montagues, in most cases, are best used for tomato stakes or toothpicks Wayne Knight (remove nospam to respond via mail) Expert in the creation of  wind knots and tailing loops.

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wayne and others. SNIP SNIP Let’s see if I can put another way, using a cane rod to me is akin to sex, a cane rod is like having a loving romantic relationship over time which is much more fulfilling, a graphite rod is like having a one night stand, yea it feels good for a short time but once you shoot your load, there’s nothing left.

eww… i’m starting to feel a little yucky… have cast a cane rod a few times.. felt like they could cast a line around a 90 degree corner.. just wonderful. edwin

Response:

I am a poor deprived person who has , I confess,  never even handled a cane rod much less fish with one.  To rectify this, in the light of all this debate, I  have been trying to cast with one of the wife’s bean sticks to see what the fuss was all about.  I got blank looks at the hardware store when I asked for a 4 wt – apparently they categorise them as tomato or bean and not by weight! so I came home and nicked one of hers.  Well, I have to say it did nothing for my style, such as it is, and the neighbours, already used to the sight of me flinging fly lines deep under the trees in the garden and trying to curve cast around the posts on the kids climbing frame, just took it all in their stride. George, you must wave a magic wand over a piece of bamboo to turn it into a rod, that’s all I can say. Yes I’ve read the G site (or should that be "spot"? )on how technological this bamboo thing is  - and now you guys have got me going.  I have got to see a real cane rod and have a cast with it just to compare it to my graphite and boron rods and see what all the fuss is about! Bendy bamboo to you all DBJ I don’t practice what I preach as I am not the sort of person I preach to! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bamboo just dose’nt make sense. Sure it dose. Bamboo, fiberglas & graphite all have plusses & minuses. It comes down to casting style and personal preference. I happen to think that bamboo is more forgiving of my lousy casting stroke. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Gee thanks.  Now I’ll feel cheap and tawdry next time I go fishing.

But will you respect it in the morning? Wayne Knight (remove nospam to respond via mail) Expert in the creation of  wind knots and tailing loops.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wayne Knight wrote … Let’s see if I can put another way, using a cane rod to me is akin to sex, a cane rod is like having a loving romantic relationship over time which is much more fulfilling, a graphite rod is like having a one night stand, yea it feels good for a short time but once you shoot your load, there’s nothing left. Gee thanks.  Now I’ll feel cheap and tawdry next time I go fishing. Keith Brewster

Mark Faulkner, recalling those years gone by

Response:

Bamboo may not make sense, and I guess classic Jaguars, MG’s, and Porsches don’t either. But that doesn’t keep them from putting more grins on my face. There’s more to driving enjoyment than airconditioned, fuel-injected cars from the Pacific Rim, and there’s certainly more to fly fishing than casting a whole line with a graphite rod… Regards Jeff

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m reading all the posts about bamboo fly rods.   Why would a person want a fly rod made from bamboo, when you can have a grafite rod? Bamboo just dose’nt make sense. — Sharp Hooks, Pat Holdzit Fishing Products Inc. http://www.holdzit.com Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Question:

I went to a small creek nearby my home in central PA a couple of nights ago to continue my on the water "education" of fly fishing.  I had been to this same creek a couple of times recently and had success catching a few 10-12 inch brook trout (when I actually got my fly to go where I wanted it to!). I found a nice deep pool in this very small stream where a tree had fallen across the creek and caused a natural dam.  I could see several trout feeding there and hitting something on top so I started casting with a dry fly (Elk Hair Caddis, I think it’s called) and hooked a nice brook trout on my second or third cast. Being that the weather has been warm and the water level pretty low, I tried to bring the fish to hand as quickly as possible and don’t think I over played the trout at all.  I kept it mostly in the water to unhook it but it was a barbed hook and the trout was bleeding slightly from its lower jaw.  I got the hook out fairly quickly and made sure the trout was revived before letting it swim away…or so I thought. I kept fishing the hole for another ten or fifteen minutes and caught one more much smaller trout and released it.  Then I started to walk upstream to find another pool and I saw a shining gleam from the edge of the deep pool and realized that the first fish I caught was turned upside down in the hole and caught up on some debris and was in fact dying.  I didn’t have a net with me so I tried to get it with a stick to take it home but could not get it and stirred up so much muck that I lost sight of it. I move on but kept trying to figure out what must have gone wrong or what "rookie" mistake did I do to cause it to die. Is there a point where the water conditions just will not allow a trout to live if caught?  I don’t know what the water temp. was but I’m sure it was fairly warm (I am going to buy a stream thermometer but have not gotten one yet). Also, do most fly fisherman carry a creel just in case one dies during C&R? Please let me know if there is anything more I could have done to revive the trout.  BTW I am going to debarb my hooks from now on also. Tim

Response:

I went to a small creek nearby my home in central PA a couple of nights ago

Tom – central PA has been hot and dry this spring.  Streams are low and warm. My educated guess would be water temperature – which lowers the oxygen content and on a stressed fish could well be fatal.    by the way, 10-12 inch brookies are good size for around here, so there are some nice fish in that stream. Mark Faulkner

Response:

Hi Tim, There are several possibilities here. The first one is that it was just too warm, and the fish died because of combined stress and heat. It is best not to fish above certain temperatures, if you wish to release the fish, as the fish suffers  too much stress and often dies. Overplaying a fish will kill it as well. The other possibility is that it bled to death. Even a small hole in a fish which bleeds for a while will kill the fish fairly quickly. Fish do not have coagulating agents in their blood like mammals, and can not afford to lose much blood anyway. I have seen quite a few large Seatrout bleed to death quite quickly ( much less than half an hour in several cases ), after being released apparently unharmed. The probable cause of death was given as "blood depletion resulting in oxygen transfer  failure" by a laboratory which examined a couple of the dead fish.  In all the cases mentioned ( only two of the fish mentioned were actually examined by a professional lab), the hole left by the hook was fairly small, but obviously of a position and size sufficient to cause fatal blood loss. Several fish showed signs of distress fairly quickly, and only slight water staining ( blood ) was apparent from the mouth region when they were released. The fish mentioned were found fairly quickly at the pool outlets, and their gills were already looking a very unhealthy whitish pink colour, instead of the normal bright red. If a fish bleeds very much at all then you can write it off usually, it will not survive long. Surprisingly enough fish will often survive fairly major bodily injuries, like gashes from nets, or seals etc, especially in salt water, as long as they do not bleed too much. If they bleed however they are usually doomed. We catch quite a few fish which have been "stabbed" by herons, and they often survive this as long as they do not bleed from the gash, or are attacked by fungal or other parasites. Every year where I used to live in England we also had quite a few fish damaged by fungus etc, after being hooked and released. UDN was prevalent at the time, but this seemed to be a different sort of fungus, often originating at a hole caused by a hook, especially in the sides of the lower jaw, and also in many cases obviously by anglers handling fish with hot dry hands, the imprints left from this could be clearly seen on occasion. Has nothing to do with your problem of course, but I thought I would mention it anyway.  If you are going to handle fish, do so only with cool wet hands, and if possible avoid touching them at all, even slight damage to the protective slime will leave the fish open to disease etc. Rough dry nets are just as bad, knotted nylon being among the worst. If you fish catch and release it is easier to release fish if you use barbless hooks. Hope this helps. Tight lines ! Mike Connor

Response:

Tim,   It’s possible you caught a fish that had be caught and released earlier that day or previous night. Lot’s of really good flyfishers are working those streams in the Central PA area.   If you’re new to the sport, check out Flyfishers’ Paradise in State College. They provided me with alot of great advice, and I bought alot of first rate equipment and supplies from them. Good Luck

Response:

Tim, If you saw any blood at all, the fish probably died from blood loss. I’m sure the high water temp didn’t help either. You need to get a stream thermometer. Personally, I won’t fish water above 70 deg if I don’t intend to keep what I catch, and if I notice any bleeding from a fish, I will kill it unless the reg’s prohibit it. George Adams

Response:

Just like anyone else in this group that practices Catch and Release it is really bad to see something like that that.  That fish will not just float and rot away.  That fish will make an excellent meal for others in its food chain.  Wether it be another fish, a fox, Racoon, Bear, otter, ect.  That fish will not go to waste.  I am not saying when you fish not to use extreme care when practicing Catch and Release but sometimes a problem like such can and does happen. Tight Lines and Warm Barrels. Jeremiah Weed

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Tim, There are several possibilities here. The first one is that it was just too warm, and the fish died because of combined stress and heat. It is best not to fish above certain temperatures, if you wish to release the fish, as the fish suffers  too much stress and often dies. Overplaying a fish will kill it as well. The other possibility is that it bled to death. Even a small hole in a fish which bleeds for a while will kill the fish fairly quickly. Fish do not have coagulating agents in their blood like mammals, and can not afford to lose much blood anyway. I have seen quite a few large Seatrout bleed to death quite quickly ( much less than half an hour in several cases ), after being released apparently unharmed. The probable cause of death was given as "blood depletion resulting in oxygen transfer  failure" by a laboratory which examined a couple of the dead fish.  In all the cases mentioned ( only two of the fish mentioned were actually examined by a professional lab), the hole left by the hook was fairly small, but obviously of a position and size sufficient to cause fatal blood loss. Several fish showed signs of distress fairly quickly, and only slight water staining ( blood ) was apparent from the mouth region when they were released. The fish mentioned were found fairly quickly at the pool outlets, and their gills were already looking a very unhealthy whitish pink colour, instead of the normal bright red. If a fish bleeds very much at all then you can write it off usually, it will not survive long. Surprisingly enough fish will often survive fairly major bodily injuries, like gashes from nets, or seals etc, especially in salt water, as long as they do not bleed too much. If they bleed however they are usually doomed. We catch quite a few fish which have been "stabbed" by herons, and they often survive this as long as they do not bleed from the gash, or are attacked by fungal or other parasites. Every year where I used to live in England we also had quite a few fish damaged by fungus etc, after being hooked and released. UDN was prevalent at the time, but this seemed to be a different sort of fungus, often originating at a hole caused by a hook, especially in the sides of the lower jaw, and also in many cases obviously by anglers handling fish with hot dry hands, the imprints left from this could be clearly seen on occasion. Has nothing to do with your problem of course, but I thought I would mention it anyway.  If you are going to handle fish, do so only with cool wet hands, and if possible avoid touching them at all, even slight damage to the protective slime will leave the fish open to disease etc. Rough dry nets are just as bad, knotted nylon being among the worst. If you fish catch and release it is easier to release fish if you use barbless hooks. Hope this helps. Tight lines ! Mike Connor

Response:

One thing I have learned over the years is that if you hook a trout in the gills it will bleed to death so you might as well have it for dinner. Ernie Harrison Like to make fly-fishing stuff?  See: http://users.ccnet.com/~emh/

Response:

The other possibility is that it bled to death. Even a small hole in a fish which bleeds for a while will kill the fish fairly quickly. Fish do not have coagulating agents in their blood like mammals, and can not afford to lose much blood anyway.

I agree with Mike on this one. In my experience, a bleeding fish ends up a dead fish. Nowadays, if a fish I catch bleeds, I don’t mess around: it gets whacked straight away. Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

Response:

Question:

Love Dogfishin’.  We catch 5 or 6 small bluegill and carefully chop off heads so that the guts are trailing.  Up here in Michigan, they don’t get 10 lbs. but a five or six pounder is a beauty.  Never eat them, but they make a great compost. Ed

Response:

Love Dogfishin’.  We catch 5 or 6 small bluegill and carefully chop off heads so that the guts are trailing.  Up here in Michigan, they don’t get 10 lbs. but a five or six pounder is a beauty.  Never eat them, but they make a great compost. Ed

A true conservationist. No wonder we get stupid postings from animal rights types if prople are going to post rubbish like this. Cheers Tight Lines Rod

Response:

I have caught bowfins (aka grinnel) many times.  I love to catch them, and I agree that they fight like demons.  I may be able to shed some light on the "trash fish" reputation, however.  Grinnel are just no good to eat.  First, you will have trouble cleaning one.  If you rinse the fillets under running water, or soak them for verylong, they simply dissolve.  If you decide to cook them without rinsing, the cooked meat has the consistency of cream of wheat.  On top of that, they often taste muddy. BUT, I can catch another fish to eat.  NOTHING fights like a bowfin.   Release them and they will grow BIG.  my largest to date was just over 12 lbs.  

I saw one caught off the shore on Lake Erie last year.  I had no clue what it was.  Posted a question on here and got many replies.  It just amazed me that there was a fresh water fish that I didn’t recognize. It did put up a strong fight, and was about 24 inches long.  Looked like a blast from our prehistoric past to me. BJA Still looking for a 23′ Bayliner Trophy (or anything else in my price range), soon going to give up and buy a new one.

Response:

| I have caught bowfins (aka grinnel) many times.  I love to catch them, | and I agree that they fight like demons.  I may be able to shed some | light on the "trash fish" reputation, however.  Grinnel are just no good | to eat.  First, you will have trouble cleaning one.  If you rinse the | fillets under running water, or soak them for verylong, they simply | dissolve.  If you decide to cook them without rinsing, the cooked meat | has the consistency of cream of wheat.  On top of that, they often taste | muddy. | BUT, I can catch another fish to eat.  NOTHING fights like a bowfin.   | Release them and they will grow BIG.  my largest to date was just over 12 | lbs.   Is this the same as the shovelbill catfish? Seems to me that redfish used to be considered a trashfish that was fun to catch, but lousy on the table. At least until Chef Paul began blackening them and then it became an industry. Heat up your skillet! Before I knew what they were, I caught and fried up a small freshwater drum. Yeeeeuuuucccchhhhh!

Response:

I find it hard to believe that this fantastic fighting fish is shunned by bass fisherman everywhere I go as a no good trash fish. Does anyone know how this fish got such a bad reputation?

I’m the same way about Chain Pickerel.  I frequent Caddo in East Texas, and they have bowfin (never caught one of those before, though) and chain pickerel (a kin to the pike).  I go to Caddo specifically to catch (and release) Pickerel, and even hired a guide to help me find it when I got my first shut-out ever.  The guide?  He was more like, "uh, yeah, yeah I can help you find those (spit, spit)".  They’re wild fighters and with their long thin bodies (leverage), a 2-pounder feels like a 6-pound largemouth. I am continually amazed that people can be fanatical about one kind of fishing yet scorn others.This kind of thing is very widepsreadd, with people having bias against fish species or techniques (bait vs artificial vs fly). I believe that I am extremely

I’ll fish for anything too.  There have been days when I’d be happy to catch a tiny GAR, just to make sure I really did have a hook on the end of the line!  People argue about fishing methods, lure types, brands, colors, and species.  Then you have the bass folks that hate catching anything under 5 pounds.  When the going gets tough for me, I break out the ultralight tackle and fish for bream!   Of course, I say all of this and I have my biases too.  Some people love fishing for carp, but I can’t stand them.  I’m also not really crazy about gar.  Maybe I have an adversion to anything with armidillo type skin.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I find it hard to believe that this fantastic fighting fish is shunned by bass fisherman everywhere I go as a no good trash fish. Does anyone know how this fish got such a bad reputation? Can anyone out there attest to the culinary delights of the Bowfin? What is the problem with catching a 5 to 10 pound fish that fights and jumps twice as hard as any bass I ever caught? Someone, Please, enlighten I am continually amazed that people can be fanatical about one kind of fishing yet scorn others.This kind of thing is very widepsreadd, with people having bias against fish species or techniques (bait vs artificial vs fly). I believe that I am extremely fortunate in that I will fish for just about anything, and I will use just about any technique which will catch a fish. I believe that this opens up so much more scope for fishing fun. I have friends who are dedicated sea fisherman, but who would scorn throwing lures for bass. T hier loss, cause when they are sulking because of a blowwout I am happily hooking bass. Other guys fish bass but belittle catfish, and then sit and complain about the muddy water which havs put the bass off the bite while I am happily hooking catfish. If I can give a fisherman one bit of advice it would be, Broaden Your Horizons. If nothing else, it means there is so much more tackle that you can buy, gfiddle with and read about. Tight Lines Rod Excuse me for butting in, but what has this got to do with UK. rec.fishing.sea ?????? — Davy Holt Surfing from Clydebank Scotland*"O Sir, doubht not that angling is                                * an art… The question is rather The Scottish Angling Homepage  * whether you are capable of learning http://www.dholt.demon.co.uk/  * it?"     Izaack Walton

How did u prep those bowfin to get them ready for the oven ???? I was in Northern Louisiana (Air Force assignment) a few years ago and caught these fish in the bayus of Barksdale AFB … They did wonders for a good frisky catch / better fight than any bass I’ve ever caught /  but they "melted" when I tried to fry them …. I used them in the tomatoe garden … planted along side the plants … What GREAT plant food !!!!!! BoneyFingers / in Georgia (now) ..

Response:

I live in South Florida and I want to know if there are more people out there who enjoy catching Bowfins? They are called Mudfish down here, and everyone seems to consider them a "trash" fish, except of course me. My first Mudfish was about 5 pounds, and fought like a cross between a catfish and a bass, diving, leaping, twisting, over and over. When I finally got it next to the boat, my fishing partner went, ugh! Mudfish…. I had caught a few bass earlier but none of them were as big or fought as hard as this gladiator from the stone age. I was hooked. I promptly changed my fishing tactics and targeted the Mudfish as my quarry for the rest of the day. Since them I have sponsored 5 Mudfish tournaments. All my friends are now hooked on the sport, and we even had a reporter come out to one of the tournaments and they printed a big article on us in the local newspaper. Once I found out that they were not only edible, but when baked they taste exactly like turkey breast, all white meat and juicy. Not one bit fishy. We now hold a big barbecue after the tournament, and enjoy Bowfin and beer till it gets dark. I have served baked fillet of Bowfin covered with Turkey gravy at Thanksgiving to my unsuspecting guests as an experiment to see if it was just me, or did this really taste like Turkey. Surprise. Everyone commented how tasty the White Turkey Meat was. I find it hard to believe that this fantastic fighting fish is shunned by bass fisherman everywhere I go as a no good trash fish. Does anyone know how this fish got such a bad reputation? Can anyone out there attest to the culinary delights of the Bowfin? What is the problem with catching a 5 to 10 pound fish that fights and jumps twice as hard as any bass I ever caught? Someone, Please, enlighten

Response:

I find it hard to believe that this fantastic fighting fish is shunned by bass fisherman everywhere I go as a no good trash fish. Does anyone know how this fish got such a bad reputation? Can anyone out there attest to the culinary delights of the Bowfin? What is the problem with catching a 5 to 10 pound fish that fights and jumps twice as hard as any bass I ever caught? Someone, Please, enlighten

I am continually amazed that people can be fanatical about one kind of fishing yet scorn others.This kind of thing is very widepsreadd, with people having bias against fish species or techniques (bait vs artificial vs fly). I believe that I am extremely fortunate in that I will fish for just about anything, and I will use just about any technique which will catch a fish. I believe that this opens up so much more scope for fishing fun.  I have friends who are dedicated sea fisherman, but who would scorn throwing lures for bass. T hier loss, cause when they are sulking because of a blowwout I am happily hooking bass. Other guys fish bass but belittle catfish, and then sit and complain about the muddy water which havs  put the bass off the bite while I am happily hooking catfish. If I can give a fisherman one bit of advice it would be, Broaden Your Horizons. If nothing else, it means there is so much more tackle that you can buy, gfiddle with and read about. Tight Lines Rod

Response:

: I never tried eating a bowfin, dogfish, mudfish, grinnell, or whatever : you want to call these voracious predators, but I will affirm their : fighting capabilities. : I find it hard to believe that this fantastic : fighting fish is shunned by bass fisherman everywhere I go as a no good : trash fish. Does anyone know how this fish got such a bad reputation? Can : anyone out there attest to the culinary delights of the Bowfin? What is : the problem with catching a 5 to 10 pound fish that fights and jumps : twice as hard as any bass I ever caught? Someone, Please, enlighten To me, catching the nasty bow-fin is like that awful story where a man’s wife gets raped; certainly she fights as hard as she can, and the attackers are later captured, but sex never is the same again. Well, perhaps not *that* extreme. The thing is, they’ll go after most anything, and it will always be an unpleasant surprise. Top-water plugs? Nasty, stink-bait? Soft-plastics? Whatever you’re fishing for, or with, sooner or later, you’re going to be convinced you’ve caught the biggest *ever* of that species, only to see the horrible grinnel surface. <sigh Yes, the fighting properties of the fish are all that, and then some. But if you think you’ve got a wall-hanger largemouth….<sigh And as for "tasting like turkey…."   The meat’s got a soft, gelatinous texture. It doesn’t smell good, and is yellowish, with holes like a sponge. Turkey breast, my foot. I thnk I’ll have a drum-stick.

Response:

I never tried eating a bowfin, dogfish, mudfish, grinnell, or whatever you want to call these voracious predators, but I will affirm their fighting capabilities.  Beaver Dam Lake was stocked with them in an effort to reduce the carp population.  It was assumed that they would eat the carp fry.  Ignorant fisherman killed them as fast as they caught them.  They assumed the bowfins were eating all the walleye!  Now, if I were a predatory fish, forced to live in a cesspool like Beaver Dam Lake, would I be eating a rare, spiny walleye, or leisurely gulping down soft rayed carp fry, which are present in vast shoals? — – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I find it hard to believe that this fantastic fighting fish is shunned by bass fisherman everywhere I go as a no good trash fish. Does anyone know how this fish got such a bad reputation? Can anyone out there attest to the culinary delights of the Bowfin? What is the problem with catching a 5 to 10 pound fish that fights and jumps twice as hard as any bass I ever caught? Someone, Please, enlighten I am continually amazed that people can be fanatical about one kind of fishing yet scorn others.This kind of thing is very widepsreadd, with people having bias against fish species or techniques (bait vs artificial vs fly). I believe that I am extremely fortunate in that I will fish for just about anything, and I will use just about any technique which will catch a fish. I believe that this opens up so much more scope for fishing fun. I have friends who are dedicated sea fisherman, but who would scorn throwing lures for bass. T hier loss, cause when they are sulking because of a blowwout I am happily hooking bass. Other guys fish bass but belittle catfish, and then sit and complain about the muddy water which havs put the bass off the bite while I am happily hooking catfish. If I can give a fisherman one bit of advice it would be, Broaden Your Horizons. If nothing else, it means there is so much more tackle that you can buy, gfiddle with and read about. Tight Lines Rod

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I find it hard to believe that this fantastic fighting fish is shunned by bass fisherman everywhere I go as a no good trash fish. Does anyone know how this fish got such a bad reputation? Can anyone out there attest to the culinary delights of the Bowfin? What is the problem with catching a 5 to 10 pound fish that fights and jumps twice as hard as any bass I ever caught? Someone, Please, enlighten I am continually amazed that people can be fanatical about one kind of fishing yet scorn others.This kind of thing is very widepsreadd, with people having bias against fish species or techniques (bait vs artificial vs fly). I believe that I am extremely fortunate in that I will fish for just about anything, and I will use just about any technique which will catch a fish. I believe that this opens up so much more scope for fishing fun. I have friends who are dedicated sea fisherman, but who would scorn throwing lures for bass. T hier loss, cause when they are sulking because of a blowwout I am happily hooking bass. Other guys fish bass but belittle catfish, and then sit and complain about the muddy water which havs put the bass off the bite while I am happily hooking catfish. If I can give a fisherman one bit of advice it would be, Broaden Your Horizons. If nothing else, it means there is so much more tackle that you can buy, gfiddle with and read about. Tight Lines Rod

Excuse me for butting in, but what has this got to do with UK. rec.fishing.sea ?????? — Davy Holt Surfing from Clydebank Scotland*"O Sir, doubht not that angling is                                * an art… The question is rather The Scottish Angling Homepage  * whether you are capable of learning http://www.dholt.demon.co.uk/  * it?"     Izaack Walton                                                

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Question:

I will be travelling to Michigans’ Upper Peninsula in early July and am looking for good trout rivers/streams near Ironwood (Western UP on the Wisconsin border).  Also, What are the predominant hatches in the area? Thanks in advance, DJ

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I will be travelling to Michigans’ Upper Peninsula in early July and am looking for good trout rivers/streams near Ironwood (Western UP on the Wisconsin border).  Also, What are the predominant hatches in the area? Thanks in advance,

DJ – I don’t have the answers to your questions, but there is a classic book about fly-fishing the UP 50 years ago.  If you read it, you might find the trip more interesting.  It’s called Trout Madness by Robert Travers.  Have a great trip.       Gene

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