Question:

I’m relatively new to fly casting and have a question regarding casting technique.  When I transition from backcast to forecast I often hear the fly and line cracking (poping really) like a whip when the fly reverses direction to go forward.  Is this normal?  I suspect that I’m not letting the line straighten behind me before casting forward; therefore, it’s just like cracking a whip.  The problem with waiting though seems to be that the line doesn’t travel forward as far if I wait.  The problem with not waiting, I seem to be jerking the stuffing out of my flys.  Any thoughts?

Yes; what everybody else told you and this.   To get distance on the forward cast, you need to load the rod properly.   When your back cast straightens behind you (no big loops), start the forward cast a bit more slowly until the rod begins to load from the weight of the line, THEN apply all that power you’re using.   Don’t give it the full magilla all at once.   It should be a gradual acceleration, not a sharp increase to full power. Joe F.

Response:

I’m relatively new to fly casting and have a question regarding casting technique.  When I transition from backcast to forecast I often hear the fly and line cracking (poping really) like a whip when the fly reverses direction to go forward.  Is this normal?  I suspect that I’m not letting the line straighten behind me before casting forward; therefore, it’s just like cracking a whip.  The problem with waiting though seems to be that the line doesn’t travel forward as far if I wait.  The problem with not waiting, I seem to be jerking the stuffing out of my flys.  Any thoughts?

Well, first, quit stuffing your fly – it’ll make the girls (or the boys, depending on your personal choices) think you silly – and that way, you’ll not jerk it out.  Hmm…that reminds me of Blazing Saddles – "pardon me while I whip this out…," and speaking of whipping…. …yup, "cracking the whip" is timing.  Turn your head and look over your shoulder at the fly – and for Pete’s (or really, the Canadian of your choice) sake, don’t use full-hook flies to practice – try using bright, puffy whiffs – and try beginning your forward cast when the fly begins to start into the loop’s roll.  I suspect your particular distance thing is timing-related, as well, due to timing because of <oh, lord, well, let’s just say it’s likely timing-related, but without more info and seeing you cast, I’ll make that guess and leave it at that.   Just stay with it, you’ll get it – practice, practice, and oh, BTW, practice. TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Regards, Eric

Response:

…. load… <oh lord  He said it!  He said it! <G TC, R Where’s that duck dropping from the lights?

Well, you’re a lovely couple and I think you should get married. Wolfgang somewhere in the viaduct

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…. load… <oh lord  He said it!  He said it! <G TC, R Where’s that duck dropping from the lights?

LOL.   In keeping with the oft-dispensed advice, I thought long and hard before hitting the send key on that one.   Thought I could slip it benignly past if I omitted all controversial adverbs. Joe F.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …. load… <oh lord  He said it!  He said it! <G TC, R Where’s that duck dropping from the lights? Well, you’re a lovely couple and I think you should get married.

Why would I wanna marry a duck, via whatever means…oh, you just want the film rights so you can sell the tape….on eBay…. TC, R fearing the ductile nature of threads…. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Wolfgang somewhere in the viaduct

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Via duck, vie not a turkey or a chicken? Op

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …. load… <oh lord  He said it!  He said it! <G TC, R Where’s that duck dropping from the lights? Well, you’re a lovely couple and I think you should get married. Wolfgang somewhere in the viaduct

Response:

I’m relatively new to fly casting and have a question regarding casting technique.  When I transition from backcast to forecast I often hear the fly and line cracking (poping really) like a whip when the fly reverses direction to go forward.  Is this normal?

No It’s really hard to fix your problem by suggesting  possible solution with words alone.  You may want to rent a casting video from a local fly fishing shop.  If the line droops when you do try to let it completely unroll on the backcast, try aiming your backcast a little bit up and to the back and not just to the back.  HTH. Mu

Response:

I’m relatively new to fly casting and have a question regarding casting technique.  When I transition from backcast to forecast I often hear the fly and line cracking (poping really) like a whip when the fly reverses direction to go forward.  Is this normal?  I suspect that I’m not letting the line straighten behind me before casting forward; therefore, it’s just like cracking a whip.  The problem with waiting though seems to be that the line doesn’t travel forward as far if I wait.  The problem with not waiting, I seem to be jerking the stuffing out of my flys.  Any thoughts? Regards, Eric

Eric: Something that helped me alot was waiting until I felt the rod "load up" on my back stroke. I also notice this is easier to feel with a "slower" rod. Just a thought. M. Wm.

Response:

Casting next to big picture windows….the solar tinted kind that act like mirrors…can aid in watching how your line behaves while it’s behinds you. I’m just a not very sensitive guy. It seems like my hands take forever to learn something….I mean you should have seen the hook and weight contraption I had to build just to learn how to tie bloodknots.  Having acces to one of these type of windows helped me learn to cast (not that I can). Being able to see when I was supposed to be feeling my line assisted me in actually learning to feel it. john

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m relatively new to fly casting and have a question regarding casting technique.  When I transition from backcast to forecast I often hear the fly and line cracking (poping really) like a whip when the fly reverses direction to go forward.  Is this normal?  I suspect that I’m not letting the line straighten behind me before casting forward; therefore, it’s just like cracking a whip.  The problem with waiting though seems to be that the line doesn’t travel forward as far if I wait.  The problem with not waiting, I seem to be jerking the stuffing out of my flys.  Any thoughts? Regards, Eric

Response:

…. load…

<oh lord  He said it!  He said it! <G TC, R Where’s that duck dropping from the lights? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Joe F.

Response:

I’m relatively new to fly casting and have a question regarding casting technique.  When I transition from backcast to forecast I often hear the fly and line cracking (poping really) like a whip when the fly reverses direction to go forward.  Is this normal?  I suspect that I’m not letting the line straighten behind me before casting forward; therefore, it’s just like cracking a whip.  The problem with waiting though seems to be that the line doesn’t travel forward as far if I wait.  The problem with not waiting, I seem to be jerking the stuffing out of my flys.  Any thoughts? Regards, Eric

If the fly "cracks" when you commence your forward cast, this is a result of it breaking the sound barrier when it "goes around the bend". This will shred most flies very quickly indeed, if it does not break them off to start with. This is caused by you reversing direction, and applying forward motion to the fly, while it is still travelling backwards. The fault is indeed caused by starting the forward stroke too soon.  This is often compounded by allowing the rod to "drift" too far back, or indeed a power stroke which is too long. Too much power is also a cause of this fault. The remedy is to apply less power, stop your backast a little earlier, and wait for the line to straighten before commencing the forward stroke. Concentrate on throwing your backcast "up", instead of "back", and the fault will probably disappear.  Watching your back-cast will help here. When the line is straight out behind you, commence the forward stroke. When casting heavy flies, or greater distances, a "single haul" may be of considerable assistance. This is a pull on the line with the "line" hand, at the start of the forward stroke. TL MC

Response:

I’m relatively new to fly casting and have a question regarding casting technique.  When I transition from backcast to forecast I often hear the fly and line cracking (poping really) like a whip when the fly reverses direction to go forward.  Is this normal?

It means MAXIMUM POWER!!!  I suspect that I’m not letting the line straighten behind me before casting forward; therefore, it’s just like cracking a whip.  The problem with waiting though seems to be that the line doesn’t travel forward as far if I wait.

Just kidding.  It’s bad.  You definitely need to wait.  Stick with it – maybe take a lesson – you will definitely be able to generate line speed other ways.   You’re not trying to cast like 80 feet, are you?

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  I’m relatively new to fly casting and have a question regarding casting technique.  When I transition from backcast to forecast I often hear the fly and line cracking (poping really) like a whip when the fly reverses direction to go forward.  Is this normal?  I suspect that I’m not letting the line straighten behind me before casting forward; therefore, it’s just like cracking a whip.  The problem with waiting though seems to be that the line doesn’t travel forward as far if I wait.  The problem with not waiting, I seem to be jerking the stuffing out of my flys.  Any thoughts?

It sounds like your analysis is correct.  This is not normal and you should try and let the line straighten out behind you.  Perhaps you can add a little haul on the  forward cast to get more distance if it is a problem. I haven’t seen you cast and I am not a "casting coach," other than to some of my friends I am trying to teach, so take my advice for what it is worth. You get what you pay for and all that. . . Perhaps some of the better casters will chime in with their opinions. — Warren Findley Remove (nospamZZ) to respond via email http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt/

Response:

I’m relatively new to fly casting and have a question regarding casting technique.  When I transition from backcast to forecast I often hear the fly and line cracking (poping really) like a whip when the fly reverses direction to go forward.  Is this normal?  I suspect that I’m not letting the line straighten behind me before casting forward; therefore, it’s just like cracking a whip.  The problem with waiting though seems to be that the line doesn’t travel forward as far if I wait.  The problem with not waiting, I seem to be jerking the stuffing out of my flys.  Any thoughts? Regards, Eric

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Question:

Maybe people from this area (Baltimore- Washington Corridor) could hook up for lunch, scope out some things together or just appreciate how plain stupid we probably look to one another.  Not that there’s really anything wrong with being ugly, I feel proud  that I am actually very good at practicing and exhibiting ugliness, it doesn’t take a lot of work ya know. Hell, if we were to hook up as a small clave of complete mullethead wearing, scudge head looking, biscuit head toting boneheads we just might be able to take over the place and buy some fine tackle.  I am sure the hucksters would gladly hook-up a collective group of biscuit head Roffians with good prices and great deals,  just to see us move away from their booth in a hurry. Having never visited the show before I have every intention of dragging this big ass unsightly looking numbnut over to the extravaganza in hope of meeting some other butt ugly Roffian brothers and see some way cool stuff and demos.  Who knows, even a non repugnant ugster like myself could grab some free FF lessons and/or instructions. Anybody interested at meeting one another at the show please post to the group or e-mail me, maybe someone who have been there before could indicate a good place to meet, at least for an introduction.  Keep in mind the uglier the better, attractive people need not apply. On the more serious side, if anybody is interest in car pooling from Columbia, MD, please give me a shout.  I’ll be glad to drive as long as my Jeep is out of the shop. Your One and Only Supreme Cheesehead. Tony Norton

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Tony;    Got a bunch of us meeting at the front desk at noon on Saturday. Just look for the naked guys wearing pink or red carnations swilling Glen Livet from the bottle (anti-freeze doncha know).             Frank Reid – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Maybe people from this area (Baltimore- Washington Corridor) could hook up for lunch, scope out some things together or just appreciate how plain stupid we probably look to one another.  Not that there’s really anything wrong with being ugly, I feel proud  that I am actually very good at practicing and exhibiting ugliness, it doesn’t take a lot of work ya know. Hell, if we were to hook up as a small clave of complete mullethead wearing, scudge head looking, biscuit head toting boneheads we just might be able to take over the place and buy some fine tackle.  I am sure the hucksters would gladly hook-up a collective group of biscuit head Roffians with good prices and great deals,  just to see us move away from their booth in a hurry. Having never visited the show before I have every intention of dragging this big ass unsightly looking numbnut over to the extravaganza in hope of meeting some other butt ugly Roffian brothers and see some way cool stuff and demos.  Who knows, even a non repugnant ugster like myself could grab some free FF lessons and/or instructions. Anybody interested at meeting one another at the show please post to the group or e-mail me, maybe someone who have been there before could indicate a good place to meet, at least for an introduction.  Keep in mind the uglier the better, attractive people need not apply. On the more serious side, if anybody is interest in car pooling from Columbia, MD, please give me a shout.  I’ll be glad to drive as long as my Jeep is out of the shop. Your One and Only Supreme Cheesehead. Tony Norton

Response:

Tony;    Got a bunch of us meeting at the front desk at noon on Saturday. Just look for the naked guys wearing pink or red carnations swilling Glen Livet from the bottle (anti-freeze doncha know).             Frank Reid

HEY FRANK!  I just figured out HOW to hold that carnation!!!! — Wayne To Fish is Human….To Release Divine!

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Tony;    Got a bunch of us meeting at the front desk at noon on Saturday. Just look for the naked guys wearing pink or red carnations swilling Glen Livet from the bottle (anti-freeze doncha know).             Frank Reid HEY FRANK!  I just figured out HOW to hold that carnation!!!! — Wayne To Fish is Human….To Release Divine!

ROFLMAO!  Somebody, anybody, have a video rolling when the carnation wielders arrive. If it’s drooping, does it mean it needs water? Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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ROFLMAO!  Somebody, anybody, have a video rolling when the carnation wielders arrive. If it’s drooping, does it mean it needs water? Peter

GAAAWWWWD PETER!! You want pictures of the STRANGEST things! — Wayne To Fish is Human….To Release Divine!

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So, Tony, after that last bit of visual cueing (god, I’ll need extensive therapy just to cleanse my brain, or a 4 pack of McAffrey’s), do you still want to meet with this bunch?           Frank Drink early, drink often. ROFLMAO!  Somebody, anybody, have a video rolling when the carnation wielders arrive. If it’s drooping, does it mean it needs water? Peter GAAAWWWWD PETER!! You want pictures of the STRANGEST things! — Wayne To Fish is Human….To Release Divine!

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I’ll be there Saturday.  I’ll look for the ones wearing a "ROFF" sign around their neck about noon.  I’ll be the decrepit old coot wearing a non-fly fishing white baseball cap that has a small red, white and blue logo that says "owners day 2000" on the front.  If you don’t like what you see make believe that you never heard of ROFF Lou

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Pink carnations!  We all need pink carnations.  The wiff promised to get some at work so I’ll pass them out (before I pass out).             Frank I’ll be there Saturday.  I’ll look for the ones wearing a "ROFF" sign around their neck about noon.  I’ll be the decrepit old coot wearing a non- fly fishing white baseball cap that has a small red, white and blue logo that says "owners day 2000" on the front.  If you don’t like what you see make believe that you never heard of ROFF Lou

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"Frank Reid" wrote Pink carnations!  We all need pink carnations.

   And pick-up trucks!           Charlie, feeling a little out of luck.

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Maybe people from this area (Baltimore- Washington Corridor) could hook up for lunch, scope out some things together or just appreciate how plain stupid we probably look to one another.

SWMBO & I will be there Saturday (I’m still amazed she’s going to do it.) If I can’t find pink carnations, I’ll be wearing a ROFF hat (yeah, and shirt & pants & shoes for you wise guys).   Probably won’t make a whole day of it; but noon Sat. at the entrance table works for me.   Counting spouses, that’s what, seven? Joe F.

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Pink carnations!  We all need pink carnations.  The wiff promised to get some at work so I’ll pass them out (before I pass out).            Frank

I thought the title was A White Sport Coat and Pink Crustaceans. Parrot Head Big Dale

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Well, in Maryland, we all got crabs, so that would be a bit outre.  We should do crab samiches for lunch.      Frank I thought the title was A White Sport Coat and Pink Crustaceans. Parrot Head Big Dale

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Big Dale, Dianna and I were at one of his concerts last summer and had a blast.  Parrot Heads and fins everywhere!!! — Wayne wasting away in margaritaville To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I thought the title was A White Sport Coat and Pink Crustaceans. Parrot Head Big Dale

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Question:

I am not certain when the next clave is and where it is, but I wanted to offer the extra flies (I have about 4 to 5 good sets of 30 flies I could put together in fly boxes) from this last Fly Swap as raffle prizes, if you guys think that would be OK? —— Padishar Creel

Response:

An excellent and generous idea Chris. I am sure it will meet with general approval. Thanks once again for organising and running the swap. Hope you have an excellent Christmas as well. TL MC — "Where fishing is concerned, most anglers are basically manic excessives" http://www.mikeconnor.de – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am not certain when the next clave is and where it is, but I wanted to offer the extra flies (I have about 4 to 5 good sets of 30 flies I could put together in fly boxes) from this last Fly Swap as raffle prizes, if you guys think that would be OK? —— Padishar Creel

Response:

I am not certain when the next clave is and where it is, but I wanted to offer the extra flies (I have about 4 to 5 good sets of 30 flies I could put together in fly boxes) from this last Fly Swap as raffle prizes, if you guys think that would be OK?

Pretty much guarantees ol’ Indian Joe will show up…

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Padishar, I believe the next clave is the Michigan Micro-Clave at the end of April….I believe Wolfgang is the clavemiester. Luckyboy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am not certain when the next clave is and where it is, but I wanted to offer the extra flies (I have about 4 to 5 good sets of 30 flies I could put together in fly boxes) from this last Fly Swap as raffle prizes, if you guys think that would be OK? Pretty much guarantees ol’ Indian Joe will show up…

Response:

Padishar, I believe the next clave is the Michigan Micro-Clave at the end of April….I believe Wolfgang is the clavemiester.

That would be the "landlocked rainbow trout" clave, right? — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Padishar, I believe the next clave is the Michigan Micro-Clave at the end of April….I believe Wolfgang is the clavemiester.

Technically true, but I fear the additional weight of 150 or so flies might prove burdensome to the three intrepid backpackers thus far committed to this venture.     Wolfgang now accepting applications for the positions of chief and subordinate porters

Response:

Padishar, I believe the next clave is the Michigan Micro-Clave at the end of April….I believe Wolfgang is the clavemiester. Technically true, but I fear the additional weight of 150 or so flies might prove burdensome to the three intrepid backpackers thus far committed to this venture.    

Well, I will be in Germany fishing with Mike in March, so *technically*, not only is that earlier, it is more micro too<g. — Charlie…

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Padishar, I believe the next clave is the Michigan Micro-Clave at the end of April….I believe Wolfgang is the clavemiester. That would be the "landlocked rainbow trout" clave, right?

‘Fraid not Steve.  As everyone here knows, rainbows are an anadromous (read sea running) species.  There are no fish in this region that migrate to and or from the sea, ergo these cannot be rainbows. Wolfgang

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Padishar, I believe the next clave is the Michigan Micro-Clave at the end of April….I believe Wolfgang is the clavemiester. That would be the "landlocked rainbow trout" clave, right? ‘Fraid not Steve.  As everyone here knows, rainbows are an anadromous (read sea running) species.  There are no fish in this region that migrate to and or from the sea, ergo these cannot be rainbows. Wolfgang

I’m sure you know I’m just kidding, Wolfgang. I hope you guys catch lots of those faux steelhead. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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I’m sure you know I’m just kidding, Wolfgang. I hope you guys catch lots of those faux steelhead.

Yep, knew that.  I hope we catch a bunch too.  And at least one of us intends to supplement the groceries carried in with fresh fish.  Last time we did this, we had a rookie backpacker with us (heh, heh).  We had a memorable feast of fresh (5 minutes out of the stream) trout, dredged in egg and cornmeal, and then deep fried in honest to god lard!!    :) Wolfgang here newbie…..here newbie….hold this…..follow me….

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"Wolfgang" wrote Technically true, but I fear the additional weight of 150 or so flies might prove burdensome to the three intrepid backpackers thus far committed to this venture.     Wolfgang

Wolfie, Not if Bruce H. ties them on his size #64 hooks.  :-)

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Technically true, but I fear the additional weight of 150 or so flies might prove burdensome to the three intrepid backpackers thus far committed to this venture.     Well, I will be in Germany fishing with Mike in March, so *technically*, not only is that earlier, it is more micro too<g.

Earlier, yes.  More micro?  Well, maybe so, and maybe no. Wolfgang who has spent more than one day holed up in a cabin in inclement weather reflecting pass the chianti

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Well, I will be in Germany fishing with Mike in March, so *technically*, not only is that earlier, it is more micro too<g.

    then vulfy respondeth: Earlier, yes.  More micro?  Well, maybe so, and maybe no.

    ah jus wanna, ah say, ah jus want you two rookie wannabe clavemeisters to know that there is a 10 person lower limit before the event chairperson becomes an honest-to-god clavemeister, thus becoming entitled to learn the ultra-secret clavemeister handshake and further unspeakably impressive credentials.     wayno…or is that "meaningless credentials"; i never could get that straight…

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   ah jus wanna, ah say, ah jus want you two rookie wannabe clavemeisters to know that there is a 10 person lower limit before the event chairperson becomes an honest-to-god clavemeister,

No worries there, I’ve *seen* what clavemeisters look and act like, we will be sure there are well below 9 (leaving a margin of error for ‘loading’)… <g — Charlie…

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Padishar, I believe the next clave is the Michigan Micro-Clave at the end of April….I believe Wolfgang is the clavemiester.

Allow me add this insight, Padishar. Sending the flies the the Micro-Clave is a great idea, but do NOT under any circumstances consider actually attending said Clave. With Wolfgang, KenF and asadi in primitive conditions with only a limited supply of alcohol, I think after a few hours you’d have more fun getting mauled by a bear –Steve (absolutely despondent over not being able to attend, BTW)

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….With Wolfgang, KenF and asadi in primitive conditions with only a limited supply of alcohol, I think after a few hours you’d have more fun getting mauled by a bear

Fortunately, the Porcupine Mountains are a particularly good place to put that proposition to the test.      :) Wolfgang oh, we’re gonna have a rippin good time!

Response:

Mr Creel    if you want to send me the extra boxes of flies I will present half of them to the Penn Clave and half of them to the Maine Clave as raffle prizes.  { and hope to win one box of each for my own use.]  Indian Joe McIntosh  8828 Olympic Lane  Wilmington N.C. 28411

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Indian Joe writes: Mr Creel    if you want to send me the extra boxes of flies I will present half of them to the Penn Clave and half of them to the Maine Clave as raffle prizes. { and hope to win one box of each for my own use

Are you volunteering, IJ, to be the raffle meister at the Maine Clave?  <g Dave L.

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Dave asks? Are you volunteering, IJ, to be the raffle meister at the Maine Clave?  <g

on top of apparently doing the same for Penn’s<g!!!                            Tom L

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Surprisingly, this sounds remarkably fair.  I don’t think there will be a raffle at the Susquehanna Hackers Into Tackling Shad clave.  At the end of April – first week of May.        Frank Mr Creel    if you want to send me the extra boxes of flies I will present half of them to the Penn Clave and half of them to the Maine Clave as raffle prizes.  { and hope to win one box of each for my own use.]  Indian Joe McIntosh  8828 Olympic Lane  Wilmington N.C. 28411

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Dave LaCourse asks: Are you volunteering, IJ, to be the raffle meister at the Maine Clave?  <g on top of apparently doing the same for Penn’s<g!!!

My first reaction was "Oh, no!! IJ will rig the raffle!" But on second thought, I’m convinced it’s a good idea. After all, IJ always manages to whine his way into the prize he wants anyhow so there’s nothing to lose. Besides, his cries of foul play would be directed solely at himself! –Steve (just kidding IJ)

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Question:

The White House (SPOOF) – Amid charges he ordered a release from the SPR simply to help get Hilary out of his hair by foisting her off on the people of New York, he released the following statement: "I did not have sexual relations with that woman…" When asked about the fact oil prices seeming to be going up, he had the following comments: "It depends on what the meaning of "up" is…" Meanwhile, Hilary, at a fundraiser given by Melissa Etheridge, Ellen Degeneris, and kd lang, released the following: "It’s a vast left-wing conspiracy.  I pledge to speak until the entire Northeast is warm and toasty…" Gore, meanwhile, speaking at an oil industry trade show, quipped, "I grew up with that wonderful lullaby, ‘You can trust you car…’."

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The White House (SPOOF)

I think we all understand your feelings on the matter by now.      - Ken — "The Constitution only gives people the right to pursue happiness.  You have to catch it yourself."      -Ben Franklin

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The White House (SPOOF) I think we all understand your feelings on the matter by now.     – Ken

Ya think? <G R

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The White House (SPOOF)

Is this what you call discussing the issues, Richard? The real problem, though, is that it isn’t even funny. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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The real problem, though, is that it isn’t even funny.

The boys at the Petroleum Club probably got a good chuckle… — Charlie…

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The White House (SPOOF) Is this what you call discussing the issues, Richard? The real problem, though, is that it isn’t even funny.

No, it isn’t, hence, it is a seperate posting.  As I said, I am willing to discuss the issues, or lampoon them, but not in the same discussion. TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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Most certainly.  The Kipster, Winthorpe, and Creighton all found it to be quite the ripper at the gin game at the club.  

Still no women allowed in the card room I assume? I’d hate to think that had changed… — Charlie…

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The real problem, though, is that it isn’t even funny. The boys at the Petroleum Club probably got a good chuckle… — Charlie…

Most certainly.  The Kipster, Winthorpe, and Creighton all found it to be quite the ripper at the gin game at the club.  I must confess, however, Win’s little brother, Bink, found it a bit cutting, but he’s at that age…still a junior at, sigh, Babson, where they fuel that young liberal angst.

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Most certainly.  The Kipster, Winthorpe, and Creighton all found it to be quite the ripper at the gin game at the club.   Still no women allowed in the card room I assume? I’d hate to think that had changed… — Charlie…

Of course we allow them in – we’re progressive, to a point.  Besides, who would vacuum and clean after the club closed?  And of course, if the waiter was sick, someone would have to bring us drinks and watercress finger sandwiches…

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Of course we allow them in – we’re progressive, to a point.  Besides, who would vacuum and clean after the club closed?  And of course, if the waiter was sick, someone would have to bring us drinks and watercress finger sandwiches…

Last time I was in the Petroleum Club in Wichita (maybe 20 years ago), women weren’t even allow in to serve. Don’t know about cleaning up, though. FWIW. — Charlie…

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Of course we allow them in – we’re progressive, to a point.  Besides, who would vacuum and clean after the club closed?  And of course, if the waiter was sick, someone would have to bring us drinks and watercress finger sandwiches… Last time I was in the Petroleum Club in Wichita (maybe 20 years ago), women weren’t even allow in to serve. Don’t know about cleaning up, though. FWIW. — Charlie…

Alas, times change, and we are very progressive – we even voted to move the lawn jockey at the Country Club from the front to back by the cart check…

Response:

As I said, I am willing to discuss the issues, or lampoon them, but not in the same discussion.

I’m afraid you’ve botched both attempts. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As I said, I am willing to discuss the issues, or lampoon them, but not in the same discussion. I’m afraid you’ve botched both attempts. Aw, Steve, just face it: Bill, Al, and Hilary (and I’m not so sure about Tipper) are pandering political animals who’ll say or do anything for immediate self-aggrandization and gratification, personal, political, or sexual, and do it without the slightest regard for anyone or anything, and you’re just miffed because people don’t hesitate to point it out. The sad part is seemingly otherwise-intelligent people fall for their act, and _that_ isn’t funny.

Oh, stop your whining, fer chrissakes. Although the outcome is hardly in doubt at this point, it’s a little early to be stamping your Buster Browns while slandering the American voter. Your ex-drunk/ex-cokefiend Second-Coming-of-Quayle Heirhead never had a real reason for running in the first place, ‘cept that the roof is probably about to fall in on Texas and he had nothing better to do. I liked you better when you actually thought Shrub had at least a snow-ball’s chance in Hell of winning… /daytripper

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This is just pathetic, Richard. I’m starting to feel sorry for you. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

This is just pathetic, Richard. I’m starting to feel sorry for you. — Aw, Steve, spoken like a true limo liberal.  

So sad, Richard. I count you as a friend and I hope for a speedy recovery. Let’s just go fishing sometime and put this ugly political shit behind us. BTW, I’ve never been in a limo in my life, and I ain’t no damn liberal. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

As I said, I am willing to discuss the issues, or lampoon them, but not in the same discussion. I’m afraid you’ve botched both attempts.

Aw, Steve, just face it: Bill, Al, and Hilary (and I’m not so sure about Tipper) are pandering political animals who’ll say or do anything for immediate self-aggrandization and gratification, personal, political, or sexual, and do it without the slightest regard for anyone or anything, and you’re just miffed because people don’t hesitate to point it out. The sad part is seemingly otherwise-intelligent people fall for their act, and _that_ isn’t funny. TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Are you a shill?  Is someone paying you to do this? I see all your post come in "working hours" and very few are on the topic of flyfishing.  There were very few posts of any that I recall before the election started. Will you be gone when Bush looses ?  Here’s some suggestions for more appropiate places to post., You can find more I’m sure. BJC alt. current-events.clinton.whitewater alt.flame.bill-clinton.abortion.partial-birth alt.flame.bill-clinton.humor alt.impeach.clinton alt.sex.clinton.bill alt.sex.clinton.hillary alt.sex.clinton.chelsa alt.fan.rush-limbaugh alt.politics.republicans alt.politics.usa.republicans alt.politics.bush alt.politics.clinton The White House (SPOOF) – Amid charges he ordered a release from the

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As I said, I am willing to discuss the issues, or lampoon them, but not in the same discussion. I’m afraid you’ve botched both attempts. Aw, Steve, just face it: Bill, Al, and Hilary (and I’m not so sure about Tipper) are pandering political animals who’ll say or do anything for immediate self-aggrandization and gratification, personal, political, or sexual, and do it without the slightest regard for anyone or anything, and you’re just miffed because people don’t hesitate to point it out. The sad part is seemingly otherwise-intelligent people fall for their act, and _that_ isn’t funny. Oh, stop your whining, fer chrissakes. Although the outcome is hardly in doubt at this point, it’s a little early to be stamping your Buster Browns while slandering the American voter. Your ex-drunk/ex-cokefiend Second-Coming-of-Quayle Heirhead never had a real reason for running in the first place, ‘cept that the roof is probably about to fall in on Texas and he had nothing better to do. I liked you better when you actually thought Shrub had at least a snow-ball’s chance in Hell of winning… /daytripper

Hee-HEE… You don’t get it, because you can’t…people like what you (and a few others) _assume_ I am don’t _truly_ care who’s President, because they know who has the real power, and it ain’t the President, Bush or Gore. It’s just embarrassing to have a nouveau riche hillbilly boob and a wannabe Leona Helmsly/Eleanor Roosevelt like Bill and Hilary as figureheads.  As to the American voter, please.  Most will vote for such simplistic reasons as to be laughable.   If you Gore fans really knew anything about him, you might realize he’s just like Bush, but without at least some ethics (or backbone).  He’s a rich kid who did drugs, used Dad’s influence to stay out of combat in Vietnam (well, really Dad made damn sure they stayed out of combat), whose family made money from things like oil (BTW, Gore, Sr. and Armand Hammer were pretty big buddies and the Gore family trusts, one of which Al, Jr. is a trustee, still benefit pretty tidily), banking, real estate, tobacco, etc., went to private schools as an "insider," etc. Gore is just a weak-willed fop who got mixed up with wrong crowd – just like the nouveau riche kid who gets into trouble. He only got into politics because _his_ father was a pol.  Bush may not be the best man for the job, but he’s the best in a field of two…  

Response:

Are you a shill?  Is someone paying you to do this? I see all your post come in "working hours" and very few are on the topic of flyfishing.  There were very few posts of any that I recall before the election started. Will you be gone when Bush looses ?  Here’s some suggestions for more appropiate places to post., You can find more I’m sure. BJC

Oddly, you seem to read and respond to most, if not all.  Are _you_ a shill?  And when did the election start?  As to "on-topic," Bwa-ha-ha-ha…

Response:

This is just pathetic, Richard. I’m starting to feel sorry for you. —

Aw, Steve, spoken like a true limo liberal.  I have yet to see a single fact from you, only personal attacks, remarks I guess you mean to be "biting," and a bunch of mealy-mouthed Bush-bashing.  Let’s see some facts disputing a single thing I’ve said about Gore (or Clinton).  You make all these claims and statements, and when someone calls you on it, you "attack."  Frankly, I thought you were more intelligent, and at least had some basis for your opinions, but I guess it is I who should feel sorry for you… BTW, don’t feel sorry for me – I’ll be out of the city starting tomorrow, and for a few days I won’t give a flying fuck who doing what or who in Washington or New York. TC, R

Response:

This is just pathetic, Richard. I’m starting to feel sorry for you.

I find it funny how two people so alike can feel sorry for each other.      - Ken (Unabashed supporters of either side of the fence are equally pathetic IMHO.) — "The Constitution only gives people the right to pursue happiness.  You have to catch it yourself."      -Ben Franklin

Response:

This is just pathetic, Richard. I’m starting to feel sorry for you. I find it funny how two people so alike can feel sorry for each other.     – Ken (Unabashed supporters of either side of the fence are equally pathetic IMHO.)

Well, you know what they say, "If you don’t stand for something, you’ll fall for anything the Democrats say" <G.   FWIW, I’ll say it again: G.W.B. ain’t Dad, good, bad, or ugly and Gore ain’t Clinton, good, bad, or ugly, but even in the worst case, Bush is less bad than Gore.  Hell, I could even respect someone who voted for Gore if they could make a factual, logical case _why_ they are _for_ Gore. TC, R

Response:

Did you learn just from just from  rush or have you studied Joseph Goebbels? It was he who said " A lie told first is the truth" and  "  lie told often is the truth".  When questioned evade and attack the accuser".  The "Oil release…"  string had hundreds of responses mostly evaded, or replied to with condescending retorts but few facts.   Besides the ones I’ve suggested there’s lots of  alt.rush.*** groups that would welcome  you post. BJC – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Are you a shill?  Is someone paying you to do this? I see all your post come in "working hours" and very few are on the topic of flyfishing.  There were very few posts of any that I recall before the election started. Will you be gone when Bush looses ?  Here’s some suggestions for more appropiate places to post., You can find more I’m sure. BJC Oddly, you seem to read and respond to most, if not all.  Are _you_ a shill?  And when did the election start?  As to "on-topic," Bwa-ha-ha-ha…

Response:

This is just pathetic, Richard. I’m starting to feel sorry for you. — Aw, Steve, spoken like a true limo liberal.   So sad, Richard. I count you as a friend and I hope for a speedy recovery. Let’s just go fishing sometime and put this ugly political shit behind us.

Fine with me – as I said, I’m content to agree to disagree.  I think everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I even truly respect the well-thought-out ones that differ from my own.  I also hope you have a speedy recovery <G. BTW, I’ve never been in a limo in my life…

Now THAT’S sad…<G TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Did you learn just from just from  rush or have you studied Joseph Goebbels? It was he who said " A lie told first is the truth" and  "  lie told often is the truth".  When questioned evade and attack the accuser".  The "Oil release…"  string had hundreds of responses mostly evaded, or replied to with condescending retorts but few facts.  

Guten Tag, Herr Sch… Oops.. Well now, see?   Here is something we can agree on…you are absolutely correct – I posted facts, and cites as I saw requested, yet I saw no controverting facts posted, and when I asked direct questions, they were evaded.  So far, you have posted none, but simply responded with (poorly written) attacks.  I guess that’s OK, since you are basically a troll, so end of subthread for me…

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Question:

You got RCMP on the brain.

That’s O.K., as long as they stay out of my pants!

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Come on Wolfie, they use green machines on the Miramichi all the time. Oh, I get it, in that particular river’s case the US dollar bill isn’t the fly, it’s the catch! David – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <interesting tale snipped What I would like to know is how in hell you managed to cast a folded dollar bill!  I mean, talk about catching air!!

Response:

Great Post, great story. Thanks, Bruce

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Let me first say, "I’m a midget, love fly fishing, and live in Las Vegas." Arriving at work approximately 45 minutes early with nothing to do, I wondered what I could do to fill my time.  Within an instant it came to me, practice my casting.  However, I work on the Las Vegas strip.  No problem, I pulled out my 9′ rod and an old line that I only use for practice casting on concrete.  Yea, I did it.  I went on the strip and practiced my cast.  As you could imagine, I received an assortment of comments from the absurd, funny, and outright rude. All of a sudden a gentleman stopped his car and asked, "have you had a HOOKER." "Not yet.  I’ve been trying to interest the one down the street.  But no bites," I replied. "Try a hundred," he said as he drove off with a chuckle. I didn’t have a hundred, only a few twenties, two fives, and a one.  After taking the one out of my wallet, I folded it into a small square.  I pulled out my Buck Knife and poked a hole in the bill.  What the heck, I was board and it was some thing to do.  I also thought it was funny.  Boy, I sure got a lot of comments now.  People all over the place.  But, everyone gave me room to cast. I had an imaginary stream in front of me, cast my line, and allowed the bill to float to the ground.  All of a sudden an attractive lady stepped on the bill and picked it up.  I didn’t want her to keep it so I started reeling in the line.  She continued holding onto the bill as she walked towards me. "Is this yours," she asked. "Thank you," I said. "Now that you’ve caught me, what are you going to do with me?" I was shocked.  Was she really a hooker?  I still don’t know even at this time if she was.  However, I politely excused myself and quickly went to work.  I felt uncomfortable and wanted out of the situation. Looking back at the situation, it must have been quite a sight to see a 4′ 6" man fly fishing on the Las Vegas strip.  Even now it makes me laugh. It was a pretty strange thing to do.

Response:

Let me first say, "I’m a midget, love fly fishing, and live in Las Vegas." Arriving at work approximately 45 minutes early with nothing to do, I wondered what I could do to fill my time.  Within an instant it came to me, practice my casting.  However, I work on the Las Vegas strip.  No problem, I pulled out my 9′ rod and an old line that I only use for practice casting on concrete.  Yea, I did it.  I went on the strip and practiced my cast.  As you could imagine, I received an assortment of comments from the absurd, funny, and outright rude. All of a sudden a gentleman stopped his car and asked, "have you had a HOOKER." "Not yet.  I’ve been trying to interest the one down the street.  But no bites," I replied. "Try a hundred," he said as he drove off with a chuckle. I didn’t have a hundred, only a few twenties, two fives, and a one.  After taking the one out of my wallet, I folded it into a small square.  I pulled out my Buck Knife and poked a hole in the bill.  What the heck, I was board and it was some thing to do.  I also thought it was funny.  Boy, I sure got a lot of comments now.  People all over the place.  But, everyone gave me room to cast. I had an imaginary stream in front of me, cast my line, and allowed the bill to float to the ground.  All of a sudden an attractive lady stepped on the bill and picked it up.  I didn’t want her to keep it so I started reeling in the line.  She continued holding onto the bill as she walked towards me. "Is this yours," she asked. "Thank you," I said. "Now that you’ve caught me, what are you going to do with me?" I was shocked.  Was she really a hooker?  I still don’t know even at this time if she was.  However, I politely excused myself and quickly went to work.  I felt uncomfortable and wanted out of the situation. Looking back at the situation, it must have been quite a sight to see a 4′ 6" man fly fishing on the Las Vegas strip.  Even now it makes me laugh.  It was a pretty strange thing to do.

Response:

<interesting tale snipped What I would like to know is how in hell you managed to cast a folded dollar bill!  I mean, talk about catching air!!

Response:

I folded it into a small, tight, and compact square, poked a hole in it with my knife, and tied it to my line with granny knots.  I did get air.  But, at the time I thought it was funny.  I did it more for the laugh than for the presentation.

Response:

Let me first say, "I’m a midget, love fly fishing, and live in Las

Vegas." (great story snipped) Now THAT’S FUNNY!! My soon to be mother-in-law lives at Lake Mead and I’ve never been to Vegas.  I anticipate a family visit in the next few months.  I’ll have to get you to show me the sidewalk technique!  I’ll bring along my 6 1/2 foot small stream rod and we’ll see what a 6 foot guy with a short rod and a 4 foot 6 inch guy with a long rod can do on the sidewalk. I’ll supply a pair of 5 dollar bills.  We’ll go for the class acts! — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

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As you reeled her in, you should have said, "Will you or won’t you ???" Her reply, " My room or yours ??" Your reply, " If you are going to argue about it, let’s forget the whole thing. "

Response:

My room mate just got back from Vegas…she said she saw a lot of weird things going on…

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rod and a 4 foot 6 inch guy with a long rod can do on the sidewalk.

This place just gets sicker and more depraved by the minute!  Thank you Lord, a home at last!!

Response:

and we’ll see what a 6 foot guy with a short rod and a 4 foot 6 inch guy with a long rod can do on the sidewalk.

Oh God, dont you just hate these pissing contests ? TL MC

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Oh God, dont you just hate these pissing contests ?

Oh, thank goodness it’s just a pissing contest……methought…….but no, a man were an ass to say what I thought!

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Oh God, dont you just hate these pissing contests ? Oh, thank goodness it’s just a pissing contest……methought…….but no, a man were an ass to say what I thought!

You got RCMP on the brain. Mu

Response:

My room mate just got back from Vegas…she said she saw a lot of weird things going on…

I’m one of them.  They pay me good money to act stupid.  I’m an actor you see?  The hotel wants silly and I give it to them.

Response:

She was an amateur.  No working girl in Vegas would be turned by $106.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Let me first say, "I’m a midget, love fly fishing, and live in Las Vegas." Arriving at work approximately 45 minutes early with nothing to do, I wondered what I could do to fill my time.  Within an instant it came to me, practice my casting.  However, I work on the Las Vegas strip.  No problem, I pulled out my 9′ rod and an old line that I only use for practice casting on concrete.  Yea, I did it.  I went on the strip and practiced my cast.  As you could imagine, I received an assortment of comments from the absurd, funny, and outright rude. All of a sudden a gentleman stopped his car and asked, "have you had a HOOKER." "Not yet.  I’ve been trying to interest the one down the street.  But no bites," I replied. "Try a hundred," he said as he drove off with a chuckle. I didn’t have a hundred, only a few twenties, two fives, and a one.  After taking the one out of my wallet, I folded it into a small square.  I pulled out my Buck Knife and poked a hole in the bill.  What the heck, I was board and it was some thing to do.  I also thought it was funny.  Boy, I sure got a lot of comments now.  People all over the place.  But, everyone gave me room to cast. I had an imaginary stream in front of me, cast my line, and allowed the bill to float to the ground.  All of a sudden an attractive lady stepped on the bill and picked it up.  I didn’t want her to keep it so I started reeling in the line.  She continued holding onto the bill as she walked towards me. "Is this yours," she asked. "Thank you," I said. "Now that you’ve caught me, what are you going to do with me?" I was shocked.  Was she really a hooker?  I still don’t know even at this time if she was.  However, I politely excused myself and quickly went to work.  I felt uncomfortable and wanted out of the situation. Looking back at the situation, it must have been quite a sight to see a 4′ 6" man fly fishing on the Las Vegas strip.  Even now it makes me laugh. It was a pretty strange thing to do.

Response:

snip I had an imaginary stream in front of me, cast my line, and allowed the bill to float to the ground.  All of a sudden an attractive lady stepped on the bill and picked it up.  I didn’t want her to keep it so I started reeling in the line.  She continued holding onto the bill as she walked towards me. "Is this yours," she asked. "Thank you," I said. "Now that you’ve caught me, what are you going to do with me?" I was shocked.  Was she really a hooker?  I still don’t know even at this time if she was.  However, I politely excused myself and quickly went to work.  I felt uncomfortable and wanted out of the situation.

V. You are obviously a C&R fisherman at heart, however I would suggest you spend some time reading the C&R/C&K thread and seek guidance from the doyen there as to exactly when/whether it is appropriate for a C&R guy to keep a beauty such as you described. Uh. By the by. What fly….er……bill were you using again and do you think it would work as well for a 6′ fat guy? Kiyu

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Question:

#but hes like the Senator from my state Jesse #Helms. You may not always agree with him but you always know where #he stands, #he doesn’t teeter or waiver from his beliefs. somebody said back there a bit–if it’s true, why isn’t Jesse insisting that the coons stay in their own part of town as he did back in the good old days? Helms changes, like everybody whose standards are flexible and who considers himself to be a man of principle but returns to the senate voluntarily.  (and many thinking folks hope he comes to his senses.) As for Gierach, he’s an excellent stylist with an ironic wit, and it’s all fiction mind you, which appellation our BB seems to aspire to much more recently. "Strait-laced" as Shakespeare (or should I say the Earl of Oxford?) had it–the pompous Malvolio of Twelfth Night made a fool of himself by coming around in the opposite look, the dandified and contrived "cross-gartered" style. . .in other words, he went out as what he wasn’t, and was laughed off the creek for it.  Went insane, if I remember correctly.  And Shakespeare wrote about what he wasn’t for a buck, collected "such rascal counters" happily; he would have signed his name for more if he’d had the chance, I reckon. Dave

Response:

I actually met John Gierach in Lyons, Colorado at Mike Clarks shop  this last fall.  We stopped by the shop on our way to the Frying Pan.  John G.  was actually very pleasant and eventhough he didn’t have to stay and talk, he did. I haven’t read all the posts about him, but wanted to put in me 2 cents worth about my brief contact with him and how he seemed like a pretty decent guy, besides being a great writer!

Response:

I met John Gierach in Lyons, Colorado at Mike Clarks shop… John was

actually very pleasant and even though he didn’t have to stay and talk, he did. … he seemed like a pretty decent guy,besides being a great writer! Hey Skilch, you’re right about Gierach. I live "up the road" from John, and bump into him, Mike, and the clan on the high country streams occasionally. I’ve also yakked with him at Mike’s rod shop, and been to John’s fly tying clinics. I don’t know Gierach very well, but I like the guy – and I certainly admire what he’s been able to accomplish in his career. Anybody who can win the Robert Traver Award for excellence in outdoor writing, author thousands of magazine articles, newspapers columns, and ten of the best selling fly fishing books in recent history is bound to invite some criticism from those who wish to hell they had his gift – and his success. Too bad. Regards, Dennis

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[deleted] and ten of the best selling fly fishing books in recent history is bound to invite some criticism from those who wish to hell they had his gift – and his success.

Please. Noone (at least not me) is being critical of either: 1) the fact that john is a nice guy  or 2) that they envy his gifts. If you read past the subject line in these posts, you would have had no need to defend him on those scores. In my critical estimation, as a consumer of flyfishing books, John Gierach is a good writer, but not a great writer.  He got someone to publish him, in my opinion, and the rest is history.   Steve Spinolio is a better writer, in my book, than John Gierach, or Russell Chatham.   I enjoy John Geirach at least as much or more than E. Donnel Thomas, "Whitefish Can’t Jump", but they are very much on the same, simple, short story format that does not define great writers.   I like Ted Lesson’s writing better than Gierach. Again, it has nothing to do with John being a good guy or a clever successful hard-working man.  I am certain that he is all that.  You don’t buy a flyrod or a car for that matter just because the builder is a ‘nice guy’.   I liked James Bashline, who was not a writer, really…but offered me something of value in "Nightfishing for Trout". A sad truth is, IMO, the sale of books often has as much to do with the publishers backing them and the level of gloss on the dust jacket as it does quality of content.  The best thing you could do as a writer is get Nick Lyon’s in your court.  That is power there. The number of sales define the number of awards and some of us are simply critical of the writing itself and are not star struck, nor do we have penis envy.  In Johns case, he has moments of really good stuff, but overall the stuff is repetitive, monotonous, politically correct and often boring.   To me, life offers more exciting fishing trips than John Gierach does in his writing.   So sue me. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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: In my critical estimation, as a consumer of flyfishing books, John Gierach : is a good writer, but not a great writer.  He got someone to publish him, in : my opinion, and the rest is history.   Steve Spinolio is a better writer, in : my book, than John Gierach, or Russell Chatham.   I didn’t know Spinolio had written anything beyond a post or two, one of which I have on my office wall.  Where can I find his writing?   To be a writer, one must write.  I battle with this everyday.  I suspect most do. At the very least, Gierach writes in large amount.  That’s something to be proud of.   — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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Does Gierach still live in Lyons? I spent summers there (I’m an East Coast boy) in the early ’70’s and fished the St. Vrain top to bottom–my grandfather owned the trailer park in the big bend just outside of Lyons (next box up from the park.) I think I trespassed on his property a few times. Dave

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:I enjoy John Geirach at :least as much or more than E. Donnel Thomas, "Whitefish Can’t Jump", but :they are very much on the same, simple, short story format that does not :define great writers. You were doing just fine Moe until you said the above which caused me to laugh out loud. You can’t take those darn short stories seriously, you slay me sometimes… TC

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they are very much on the same, simple, short story format that does not define great writers.

I gotta wonder what Ernest Hemmingway woulda said about that. Big Two Hearted River for example, is far from simple. Ben

Response:

: In my critical estimation, as a consumer of flyfishing books, John Gierach : is a good writer, but not a great writer.  He got someone to publish him, in : my opinion, and the rest is history.   Steve Spinolio is a better writer, in : my book, than John Gierach, or Russell Chatham.   I didn’t know Spinolio had written anything beyond a post or two, one of which I have on my office wall.  Where can I find his writing?  

Any idea when he is to return? Or if he will? Kiyu

Response:

I actually met John Gierach in Lyons, Colorado at Mike Clarks shop  this last fall.  We stopped by the shop on our way to the Frying Pan.  John G.  was actually very pleasant and eventhough he didn’t have to stay and talk, he did. I haven’t read all the posts about him, but wanted to put in me 2 cents worth about my brief contact with him and how he seemed like a pretty decent guy, besides being a great writer!

If Geirach is really the guy he says he is in his writing, then he reallly doesn’t give a rat’s ass about all these postings about him, pro and con. If he logs on to defend himself, you may be assured he is a fraud. I predict with the former.  One problem I see here is that many insist on judging him as a flyfisherman, based on his writings. The only way you can judge him as a flyfisher, is to fly fish with him. As a reader, you must judge him as an outdoor writer, an entertainer, if you will. On that basis I find him well worth an evening in the easy chair. Since I haven’t fished with him, I can’t comment on the other. DAO DAO

Response:

If Geirach is really the guy he says he is in his writing, then he reallly

doesn’t give a rat’s ass about all these postings about him, pro and con. If he logs on to defend himself, you may be assured he is a fraud. Funny you should bring that up, Dale. I was with John for an hour or so last week, and asked him if he was aware of the dialog about him on the internet. He just chuckled and said, "Yeah,  the guys told me about it. Sounds like those people are pissing away some good fishing time wrangling over nothing." … or words to that effect. He won’t be logging on. He doesn’t own a computer. As a reader, you must judge him as an outdoor writer, an entertainer, if you

will. On that basis I find him, well worth an evening in the easy chair.< Precisely.

Response:

If you read past the subject line in these posts, you would have had no needto

defend him on those scores. Your right Moe, I was arguing apples and oranges here. My apologies.  He got someone to publish him, in

my opinion, and the rest is history. Right again, but he didn’t get just "anyone" to publish him. Pruett, Lyons, Simon & Shuster and Stackpole are hardly the kind of publishing houses to invest in ho-hum writers. <  Steve Spinolio is a better writer, inmy book, than John Gierach, or Russell Chatham … or E. Donnel Thomas I’m not familiar with Spinolio. Is he someone I should be reading. Know where I can find any of his stuff?, but they are very much on the same, simple, short story format that does not

define great writers.  I suspect you may open a real can of worms with that judgement, Moe. A sad truth is, IMO, the sale of books often has as much to do with the

publishers backing them and the level of gloss on the dust jacket as it does quality of content. Maybe, but again, big publishing houses aren’t likely to invest in writers whose work doesn’t sell. As for" quality of content", that’s a pretty subjective matter.   The number of sales define the number of awards… I’m not so sure that’s an accurate statement. Lyons didn’t publish Trout Bum, nor much of Gierach’s other works. And if I’m not mistaken, John won the Traver Award for a fictional piece that appeared in FR & R. nor do we have penis envy.

????Where’d that come from?   In Johns case, he has moments of really good stuff, but overall the stuff is repetitive, monotonous, politically correct and often boring.  To me, life offers more exciting fishing trips than John Gierach does in his writing.  So sue me. Actually, I’d rather go fishing with you, but If I were to sue-  and win – how much could I get? later DES

Response:

To be a writer, one must write.  I battle with this everyday.  I suspect most

do. Amen to that. At the very least, Gierach writes in large amount.  That’s something to be

proud of. And to that one, as well. DES

Response:

Much of Shakepeare’s work was "formulaic" and "Typical" yet in retrospect his work is viewed as "ground breaking".  Perhaps Gierach’s stuff needs the appreciation that only time and distance can impart to the nonappreciative and overly cautious segments of his audience.

Response:

I find it humerous that all these straight laced flyfisherman find the time to criticize one of their own. I pose a question to any of you who find it within your right to criticize John at a personal or professional level:Have you ever had a conversation with the man? Do you know him and how he lives and his quality of life? I think that most critics would say NO to these questions. John is a very simple man. He’s a very acute journalist who has developed a style both in and out of the newspapers of his own. He is a fine flyfisherman and a generally nice guy to know. Most people who know him feel the same way. If one thing you can say of John, and I hope not to insult him with this comparison, but hes like the Senator from my state Jesse Helms. You may not always agree with him but you always know where he stands, he doesn’t teeter or waiver from his beliefs. A quality I believe to be a goal for most men. The other point is I believe that most flyfisherman, a strangely stoic bunch as it goes, are somewhat jealous of a man who can do what most of us want to do ALL the time instead of just some of the time, like most of us. So don’t wander down a road that you’re not familiar with, you may hit a tree or a parked car or Butch, the local dog who everybody in town knows would be sleeping in the road at 2:00pm on a tuesday. It might be hazardous. Jim Brady

Response:

I was with you until you last paragraph. Literature, great and small, is open game to critics and it is wonderful for an author to have a defender. But, to think that people offer an descenting opinion because they are jealous of a guy who fishes for a living is absurd. By in large, my fly fishers are smarter and better read than that. It’s an opinion. Agree. Disagree. Who cares. I can speak to the issue with a decent amount of authority. I have been in the communications industry for 27-plus years and have only fly fished for half that time. Gierach is a fine writer. I have most of his books. But, I think we all can agree that he is not producing groundbreaking work here. His stuff is Day Berry In Waders, whihc is fine. Hell, Dave Berry won a Pulitzer. As much as I like Gierach, he gets, like anyone else who writes for pay alot, myself included, formulaic, and hence some of his stuff becomes "typical". Knowing where someone stands is not necessarily the greatest commendation one can make about literature. Read Mein Kampf and you know where that guy stood too! My view is simple, stuff like Gierach’s should entertain and inform. Period. I do not expect it to change my life or create a new vision for my life. I leave that to far better writers with something to say on the topic. But, as for whiling away an evening after slaving over a hot word processor all day, I’ll take Gierach any day of the week. Ask the man and I am sure he will tell you he is not out to change the world. He’;s a writer and damn few of us are good enough to change the world. But, if we any good at what we do, we can inform and entertain for a while, even a moment. So, lighten up! Besides, I think Gierach is a big boy and can defend himself nicely. Hollis – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I find it humerous that all these straight laced flyfisherman find the time to criticize one of their own. I pose a question to any of you who find it within your right to criticize John at a personal or professional level:Have you ever had a conversation with the man? Do you know him and how he lives and his quality of life? I think that most critics would say NO to these questions. John is a very simple man. He’s a very acute journalist who has developed a style both in and out of the newspapers of his own. He is a fine flyfisherman and a generally nice guy to know. Most people who know him feel the same way. If one thing you can say of John, and I hope not to insult him with this comparison, but hes like the Senator from my state Jesse Helms. You may not always agree with him but you always know where he stands, he doesn’t teeter or waiver from his beliefs. A quality I believe to be a goal for most men. The other point is I believe that most flyfisherman, a strangely stoic bunch as it goes, are somewhat jealous of a man who can do what most of us want to do ALL the time instead of just some of the time, like most of us. So don’t wander down a road that you’re not familiar with, you may hit a tree or a parked car or Butch, the local dog who everybody in town knows would be sleeping in the road at 2:00pm on a tuesday. It might be hazardous. Jim Brady

Response:

Another follow-up on this thread… Just don’t read or buy the books he has written if you don’t like his writing.  As for me, I like a lot of what John has written. Most of his writing is non-technical, and therefore fine pleasure reading, if I’m into it. While Christmas cleaning btw, I perused through a lot of old Fly Fisherman and Rod and Reel Mags in my collection dating all the way back to the early eighties.  The writer in question (John) has been around for a long time, has "paid his dues," and in a professional sense is worthy of respect even if many people don’t like his work.  No need for debate or slander of the individual on a ng forum. Wayne Fenior Midland, MI – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was with you until you last paragraph. Literature, great and small, is open game to critics and it is wonderful for an author to have a defender. But, to think that people offer an descenting opinion because they are jealous of a guy who fishes for a living is absurd. By in large, my fly fishers are smarter and better read than that. It’s an opinion. Agree. Disagree. Who cares. I can speak to the issue with a decent amount of authority. I have been in the communications industry for 27-plus years and have only fly fished for half that time. Gierach is a fine writer. I have most of his books. But, I think we all can agree that he is not producing groundbreaking work here. His stuff is Day Berry In Waders, whihc is fine. Hell, Dave Berry won a Pulitzer. As much as I like Gierach, he gets, like anyone else who writes for pay alot, myself included, formulaic, and hence some of his stuff becomes "typical". Knowing where someone stands is not necessarily the greatest commendation one can make about literature. Read Mein Kampf and you know where that guy stood too! My view is simple, stuff like Gierach’s should entertain and inform. Period. I do not expect it to change my life or create a new vision for my life. I leave that to far better writers with something to say on the topic. But, as for whiling away an evening after slaving over a hot word processor all day, I’ll take Gierach any day of the week. Ask the man and I am sure he will tell you he is not out to change the world. He’;s a writer and damn few of us are good enough to change the world. But, if we any good at what we do, we can inform and entertain for a while, even a moment. So, lighten up! Besides, I think Gierach is a big boy and can defend himself nicely. Hollis

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Tim, I think if I could paraphrase your response–if you’re gonna set up shop as an icon (or let others set you up), you better expect some iconoclasts will come along. It goes with the job. I have to agree…good, not great. Trouble is, good writers don’t usually stay in print 50 years later. And in 100 years, no one remembers who the good writers were. That’s a tribute for great writers, and I don’t think we should start throwing that appelation around lightly. BTW–do you know where these straight-laced, stoic fishermen are. They’re not around here, that’s for damned sure! I don’t think I last an afternoon fishing with one of ‘em! Roger

Response:

I find it humerous that all these straight laced flyfisherman find the time to criticize one of their own.

        (lots of stuff snipped) , but hes like the Senator from my state Jesse Helms. You may not always agree with him but you always know where he stands, he doesn’t teeter or waiver from his beliefs. A quality I believe to be a goal for most men.

        let me tell you, jack, that he is also my senior senator, a fact that renders me nauseous, but is presently unavoidable.  and if you think ol jesse wouldn’t sell every goddam inch of hazel creek to the highest bidder in the tree cuttin industry, then you are blind as a bat.  and having read gierach, i can’t believe he would accept such a comparison. The other point is I believe that most flyfisherman, a strangely stoic bunch as it goes, are somewhat jealous of a man who can do what most of us want to do ALL the time instead of just some of the time,

        how much the guy fishes has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of his prose.  which, imho, is very high.  but your apology for him, in the face of timbo’s protestations, is lamentable.         a. wayne harrison

Response:

Much of Shakepeare’s work was "formulaic" and "Typical" yet in retrospect his work is viewed as "ground breaking".  Perhaps Gierach’s stuff needs the appreciation that only time and distance can impart to the nonappreciative and overly cautious segments of his audience.

Is it really you ?  I thought you were dead ? Comparing Gierach to Shakespeare ? Like the guy that painted a happy face on a dairy cows underside. Udderly Silly. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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I find it humerous that all these straight laced flyfisherman

I’ve spent enough time around this group the past couple of years to know that most of the laces don’t get any crookeder than the ones you’ll find round here. Nope…not a straight lace in the bunch (I say that with pride, so don’t anyone get offended). Roger

Response:

Much of Shakepeare’s work was "formulaic" and "Typical" yet in retrospect his work is viewed as "ground breaking".  Perhaps Gierach’s stuff needs the appreciation that only time and distance can impart to the nonappreciative and overly cautious segments of his audience.

I would have to disagree on calling much of Shakespeare formulaic or typical. Sure, he may have used some common conventions and story lines adopted from other sources, but if you compare Shakespeare’s King Lear, for example, with contemporary version’s like Nahum Tate’s, Big Bill the Bard’s on a whole new plane. As for Geirach I don’t think the same can be said. I have read and enjoyed his work as light reading over my lunch hour. Or on a camping trip. Groundbreaking? Unconventional? Original? I don’t think so. There is very little that hasn’t been done before by others, and won’t be done again. It’s not even a terribly distinctive voice. This doesn’t make it unpleasant or without value. But I don’t think it’s the kind of stuff posterity is going to elevate into the canon of great works. If you went back 100-200 years and looked at the best selling books…other than the bible, you probably wouldn’t recogize many of them. The reason they were so popular was not that they were original, but rather that they perfectly mimicked the conventions of their day. They appealed to contemporary tastes. That…I think…is what Geirach does. He ain’t writing for the ages. Roger

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Seems to me that how nice a guy a person is, how authentic or otherwise attractive his lifestyle might ain’t got a lot to do with the quality of his writing, and thus the orig. poster just misses the point of some of Gierach’s detractors entirely. Hemmingway, for instance, does not seem to be the kind of guy one would enjoy spending lots of time with, and while through happy circumstances I can afford to fish as much as Gierach (or maybe even more), that don’t make me a writer.         That said, I think that most if not all of Gierach’s detractors miss a point too, and that is that almost no author I know of who has turned out more than just a book or two is able to maintain the same quality of prose over and over and over again. But even then, there are authors who write one great great work and then are either silent or write crap, and others who simply maintain a fairly high level consistently  throughout their careers.         For my money I suspect some of Gierach’s stuff

Question:

Tried to access the web page to get some info for a trip next month but the browser couldn’t find it.  Has flyline.com moved?  I tried adventurewest.com too, but it couldn’t be found either. Brent

Response:

Tried to access the web page to get some info for a trip next month but the browser couldn’t find it.  Has flyline.com moved?  I tried adventurewest.com too, but it couldn’t be found either. Brent

Not sure, but I think the server on which Ralph has his web site is down. I haven’t  been able to get through either for the last several days. FAS

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Hi-   We live- but our server has been unplugged. We were on the Adventure West Magazine server. Ad West, left for bigger digs in Seattle and in the process, apparently, unplugged their server. They have yet to answer my email or phone class regarding the situation. We WILL reappear, but I’m at a loss as to when, where and under what guise. -Ralph Tried to access the web page to get some info for a trip next month but the browser couldn’t find it.  Has flyline.com moved?  I tried adventurewest.com too, but it couldn’t be found either. Brent Not sure, but I think the server on which Ralph has his web site is down. I haven’t  been able to get through either for the last several days. FAS

California School of Flyfishing. Fishing conditions, hatch charts, product reviews, tips, techniques and more.  http://www.FLYLINE.com

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi-   We live- but our server has been unplugged. We were on the Adventure West Magazine server. Ad West, left for bigger digs in Seattle and in the process, apparently, unplugged their server. They have yet to answer my email or phone class regarding the situation. We WILL reappear, but I’m at a loss as to when, where and under what guise. -Ralph Tried to access the web page to get some info for a trip next month but the browser couldn’t find it.  Has flyline.com moved?  I tried adventurewest.com too, but it couldn’t be found either. Brent Not sure, but I think the server on which Ralph has his web site is down. I haven’t  been able to get through either for the last several days. FAS California School of Flyfishing. Fishing conditions, hatch charts, product reviews, tips, techniques and more.  http://www.FLYLINE.com

Ralph, Could you post a Tahoe area report here? Thanks, Michael Smith

Response:

Question:

Standing up in a canoe is like anything else.  Doing it right requires practice.  I’ve done it but I don’t like to stand in a canoe.  When I was looking for the boat I have now, a kayak, I received many recommendations saying that I should get a canoe.  The main point was that I could pole a WW canoe up a shallow run when, with a kayak, I’d have to get out and wade.  They had a good point and I have had to wade some chutes that I could have poled a boat up.  However, my kayak offers many advantages for a solo paddler and I normally use it for transportation to a place and then I get out and do whatever I’m going to do. Bob — —– Bob Perkins, Director of Institutional Research and Planning Methodist College Fayetteville, NC  28311                          Office: 910-630-7037

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I am considering purchasing a canoe or kayak for quick trips to the lakes, rivers and bays for fly fishing and recreation around Houston.  Most of the time I will be fishing alone, but would like to take my son or another friend at times.  Day trips only, no overnight or long journeys anticipated.   Suggestions as to canoe vs kayak and other details would be appreciated.  Size, composition, design, etc. would all be helpful.

Response:

I am considering purchasing a canoe or kayak for quick trips to the lakes, rivers and bays for fly fishing and recreation around Houston.  Most of the time I will be fishing alone, but would like to take my son or another friend at times.  Day trips only, no overnight or long journeys anticipated.   Suggestions as to canoe vs kayak and other details would be appreciated.  Size, composition, design, etc. would all be helpful.I bought a 13 foot Navarro canoe that I like a lot.  It’s pretty light

at 58 pounds, 38 inches wide with a pretty flat bottom (flattened arch is what the brochure calls it) which gives it enough initial stability that you can actually stand up in it to cast, though I don’t very often. It’s built with resin impregnated cherry wood ribs and a fiberglass skin. It’s quite pretty to look at if that’s important to you…about $900.  It’s not designed for white water but handles very nicely on lakes and slower moving water with one or two anglers aboard. E-mail me if you have any questions…We-No-Nah makes a canoe with similar configuration, size and weight.  No wood but it’s about $150 cheaper, and they also make a good canoe.  Happy hunting. Dean Henry

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: I am considering purchasing a canoe or kayak for quick trips to the lakes, rivers and bays for I’ve never owned or tried a kayak, but my guess is they would not be a comfortable general-purpose fishing platform. I used to own a 12ft canoe that was absolutley great alone, but really could not handle two people. For two, I wouldn’t go smaller than 15ft. We have an Old Town Discovery 15"8", and like it alot. I handle it alone (car-top) always, and I’m a small guy; its 80lbs, but if you’re willing to spend more you can get much lighter canoes. Just go to a shop and pick up all the canoe maker’s sales booklets. These will explain different hull shapes, etc., and I think you’ll see what you want pretty quickly. If not, then talk to a salesperson. I don’t know how much time you’ve spent in boats or in canoes, but if you have no experience, you might find canoes a bit nervous. I think some people get used to it and some don’t; I’m not sure you can ever tell ahead of time. Just gotta try it, I guess. good luck, Jon Cook.

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Canoe probably your best bet. Its only draw back is the extra weight. I have a poke boat which is a semi covered deck, very light, kayak like boat. Its great for getting around, but forget even kneeling in it. In a canoe you could, with care, stand to cast. I. Clair

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I second the Aquaterra Keowee.  I bought the single seat model early this year and I love it.  It’s actually a pretty good fly fishing platform, but I use it mostly for getting to where I want to fish and then wading if possible.  It’s stable, lightweight, and floats in anything, but you have to sit in it, no kneeling.   Doug

Response:

David, I e-mailed you the other day, but I think I forgot to send it. Duhh! Anyway, I’ll repeat what I wrote and you can ignore this if I did send. If you are planning to take two kids along you will need a canoe. It is challenging for three people to fly fish from a canoe. You’ll have to take turns casting. If you want to have a real blast fishing solo, try a Keowee. It is a 9 foot long, 30-40 pound heavy duty plastic molded recreational kayak. No whitewater for this baby, but it is great for poking around in places that even a canoe can’t easily get into and out of. It has just enough room for a small amount of gear and is very stable – not `tippy’ like most kayaks. Once you are in, it is nearly untippable. It takes a wee while to get used to getting in and out – not a easy as a canoe – but I love mine. My fishing friend and I each have one and we just pop them on the roof racks and off we go. They are made in the U.S. by a company called Aguaterra. They make many models, so specify the Keowee. It comes in several colours, including camo I think, and costs about $300 US. I think LL Bean sells it and maybe even Eddy Bauer. I bought mine in Maine from Maine Sport near Camden. I’ve also seen it in Kittery Maine at a large outfitter (can’t remember the name) and at the LLBean store in Freeport, Maine. In New Hampshire I have seen it in Littleton at the LaHouts Sports Store. I believe I’ve seen it in the LLBean catalog. I also use a canoe sometimes and own a float tube. I enjoy them all. Have fun with whatever you end up buying. Sandy

Response:

I have something very similar – it’s a Creek Boat. It’s a one man, sit down low, fishing boat. It has a small livewell and a mounting block for a trolling motor and a foot steering system built in. Mine has oarlocks added also. Price is in the same range. It is a little lighter, but it is not indestructible. -Andy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I second the Aquaterra Keowee.  I bought the single seat model early this year and I love it.  It’s actually a pretty good fly fishing platform, but I use it mostly for getting to where I want to fish and then wading if possible.  It’s stable, lightweight, and floats in anything, but you have to sit in it, no kneeling.  

Response:

In a canoe you could, with care, stand to cast.

Careful here. That is sort of like saying "in an automobile you could, with care, enter the Pikes Peak road rally".   You’d best not stand in a canoe with a rounded bottom and no keel, such as typical for whitewater.  Pick one with a wide beam, flat or shallow vee bottom and tumblehome – wider at or just above the waterline than at the gunwales. The manufacturers offer different models for various purposes. Pick one made for fishing or cargo or family use, not whitewater or fast cruising. Mark Vinsel http://www.lanminds.com/local/vinnie/gallery.html

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – David, I e-mailed you the other day, but I think I forgot to send it. Duhh! Anyway, I’ll repeat what I wrote and you can ignore this if I did send. If you are planning to take two kids along you will need a canoe. It is challenging for three people to fly fish from a canoe. You’ll have to take turns casting. If you want to have a real blast fishing solo, try a Keowee. It is a 9 foot long, 30-40 pound heavy duty plastic molded recreational kayak. No whitewater for this baby, but it is great for poking around in places that even a canoe can’t easily get into and out of. It has just enough room for a small amount of gear and is very stable – not `tippy’ like most kayaks. Once you are in, it is nearly untippable. It takes a wee while to get used to getting in and out – not a easy as a canoe – but I love mine. My fishing friend and I each have one and we just pop them on the roof racks and off we go. They are made in the U.S. by a company called Aguaterra. They make many models, so specify the Keowee. It comes in several colours, including camo I think, and costs about $300 US. I think LL Bean sells it and maybe even Eddy Bauer. I bought mine in Maine from Maine Sport near Camden. I’ve also seen it in Kittery Maine at a large outfitter (can’t remember the name) and at the LLBean store in Freeport, Maine. In New Hampshire I have seen it in Littleton at the LaHouts Sports Store. I believe I’ve seen it in the LLBean catalog. I also use a canoe sometimes and own a float tube. I enjoy them all. Have fun with whatever you end up buying. Sandy

VISUALLY SPEAKING, from an outsider’s point of view.  Visual Pollution is just as real as many other forms.  I imagine, to someone of your generation, fly fishing out of a kayak, to many of us would be like seeing a whale turd in a party punch-bowl.  You not only don’t like looking at it, you wouldn’t use it either.  Yet, float tubes are another matter and I cannot explain to you why.  Go for a canoe, my friend. nuff said. George Gehrke

Response:

Go with a canoe.  The Keowee is a nice platform, but its carrying capacity is limited.  I know a guy who fishes out of a sea kayak, but he paddles 2-5 times a week and normally doesn’t fly fish.  It’s theoretically possible for me to fly fish out of my Prijon Taifun (kayak), but if I’m going to fly fish I’ll use the boat to get where I’m going and then wade. Bob — —– Bob Perkins, Director of Institutional Research and Planning Methodist College Fayetteville, NC  28311                          Office: 910-630-7037

Response:

One important consideration in chosing a craft for flyfishing is comfort. I have a 16′ Greenland style kayak that I use in the ocean. I also spend some time in the surf on a sit_on_top style kayak (you wouldn’t believe how many stripers hang out in that surf). Of the two, the sit on top is probably more stable for casting and fighting fish, and is certainly a better surf boat, but it is much less efficient to paddle and for me, is very uncomfortable. The one I’ve been using, ocean kayaks ‘frenzy’, has ribs built into it to give multiple places for bracing your feet. I suppose if you are 2" shorter or taller than me it would probably be a comfortable fit, but no matter how much I adjust the seat I can’t get a comfortable fit. Thus, I can’t imagine spending a lot of time trying to cast from it. Most conventional kayaks have internal foot braces that are adjustable. So if you decide to go plastic/sit on top I’d recommend spending at least one hour sitting in the boat to see if it is comfortable for you. Casting when your legs are cramping up can be a drag.                                                         jc

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I recently went through the canoe vs. kayak dilemma and settled with a kayak–a folding kayak. Although I had wanted a platform I could stand in, the seaworthiness and the portability of the folding kayak ruled out.  Obviously it’s nice to have easy access to my gear, food, etc. and even bring along someone else, but a kayak was a much better choice for me as I do most of my flyfishing is saltwater and I often travel by air to fish. The kayak I bought, a Feathercraft K Light Plus folds into a backpack and weighs only 32 pounds; it takes only 15 minutes to assemble; my rod fits under the deck bungees and I can take it out easily. The best thing is that I can take the kayak out into open ocean and not be concerned about being swamped over and I can fight a current quite easily.  I’ve been in big rips and paddled right back-up the beach to my car and fished in four foot swells–no problem. In a canoe in current I’d be swept away. I’m sure I will take it to the Everglades for redfishing and  the Keys and Bahamas for bonefishing just as I took it to Martha’s Vineyard for stripers, blues, and bonito. The kayak is fast, too.  If getting to a destination is your objective, you will expend much less energy and have more time for fishing if you use kayak rather than a canoe. As far as casting from the kayak goes it has yet to be a problem–I just keep the backcast high–no need to stand. As far as storage goes, I keep most of what I need in a waterproof deck bag and waterproof bags in the hull. Folding kayaks are not inexpensive; but for the ability to take it wherever I want to fish, it’s worth it. Good luck, Darren Lew New York, NY

Response:

It is actually pretty hard to tip a family/fishing type canoe. The first thing you should do is go out and tip yours on purpose (or tip a demo model before you buy). Learn how it reacts, and what it takes to tip it. Do this with two people – have one stand and the other make some sudden moves.

I used to stand up while surfing waves in my Blue Hole in my wilder days of youth ;- In my experience, in most cases the canoe stays upright when someone standing in it falls out. The canoe gets "pushed out of the way" rather than capsizing, or the person loses footing and trips trying to regain it in the confines of a canoe (most come with rather small dance floors). In a wide keeled boat, this is less likely to happen, but it still is a risk. Even small jon boats exhibit this "snatch-the-rug" behavior. The pedestals in bass boats are there largely for stability; people aren’t that good at standing in small areas without something to lean on for any length of time. Try marking off a small rectangle and stand in it casting for a while without stepping outside of it. I would plan on sitting to cast most of the time. If (big if when you are as sloppy as I am) you have a nice tight loop it doesn’t need to drop below shoulder level anyway. -Andy

Response:

writes: Canoe probably your best bet. Its only draw back is the extra weight. I have a poke boat which is a semi covered deck, very light, kayak like boat. Its great for getting around, but forget even kneeling in it. In a canoe you could, with care, stand to cast. I. Clair

Alot depends on the canoe. I have a mad river winoski that I have no problem standing in however, the tradoff for that stabality is speed. Other models are faster than my boat some are more durable, less durable, lighter or heavier. Boats vary alot in what they are designed for, you may want to take a look at rec.boats.paddle. Also get a honest idea of what you want from a boat, then go talk to a dealer that knows boats. Canoes are canoes in the same way cars are cars, if you need a pickup you will never be satisfied with a civic. Lastly, the main item that keep me away from a Poke is I need the versitility that a canoe offers. I can carry two adults ,my lab and decoys. Yet, it is not too much boat for one person to fish from solo. Charles

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David…I would recommend a canoe based on your intended use. I currently have two We-No-Nah canoes which are incredible for their intended use, the c-1 for racing and the tandem for backcountry touring. For your use a basic Coleman or Old Town would be fine, why spend the bucks for weight savings or paddling efficiency when you can get what you need for a quarter of the cost? Since you are not going to do any major carries or long distance paddling stick with the basics. By the way if you do go with a canoe I still wouldn’t advise on standing to cast. Good luck with your decision. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am considering purchasing a canoe or kayak for quick trips to the lakes, rivers and bays for fly fishing and recreation around Houston.  Most of the time I will be fishing alone, but would like to take my son or another friend at times.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – David, I e-mailed you the other day, but I think I forgot to send it. Duhh! Anyway, I’ll repeat what I wrote and you can ignore this if I did send. If you are planning to take two kids along you will need a canoe. It is challenging for three people to fly fish from a canoe. You’ll have to take turns casting. If you want to have a real blast fishing solo, try a Keowee. ……. VISUALLY SPEAKING, from an outsider’s point of view.  Visual Pollution is just as real as many other forms.  I imagine, to someone of your generation, fly fishing out of a kayak, to many of us would be like seeing a whale turd in a party punch-bowl.  You not only don’t like looking at it, you wouldn’t use it either.  Yet, float tubes are another matter and I cannot explain to you why.  Go for a canoe, my friend. nuff said. George Gehrke

So far, great responses and advice, and all is appreciated.  At this point, I will approach the purchase by several methods, all tempered with everyone’s input (even George’s – more later).  In Houston, we have REI and Sun & Ski Sports stores, as well as others that will rent kayaks and canoes.  I intend to try several.  Also, I have found several kayak and canoe clubs that give demonstrations and/or lessons.  Knowledge is a powerful tool, especially when so cheaply obtained!  To George – I not only explained to my 9 year old son the visual nuances and social faux pax of a "whale turd in a party punch bowl", but also of some peoples’ intolerance to the lifestyles of others.  Gee, I am in my mid forties with gray hair, yet you seem to believe I am some twenty year old doing an endo and scaring the trout – although whitewater kayaking is on my to-do list. Imagine the visual pollution of the first bamboo rod to a greenheart rod holder, the first fiberglass rod to a bamboo holder, the first graphite rod to a fiberglass rod holder!  Is your mode of transportation a horse, a Model T, a `57 Chevy, a bicycle, a Viper, a bus??!!?  Yet, ornithopters are another matter, and I cannot explain to you why, my friend. "Strive to leave for our children a better world, then they will do the same for theirs."     – David Hinners

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Question:

It looks like I will be attending a conference at Disneyland in Anneheim early next month.  Any flyfishing (fresh or Saltwater) in this area ? I am willing to travel within reason. I am not from the USA, so if you specify a fish species, please also add any info on line weights, flies etc, as I noticed on my last trip to the USA that fish names vary considerably around the world. Are there any good shops in the area who could advise me ? Thanks Bruce…..

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It looks like I will be attending a conference at Disneyland in Anneheim early next month.  Any flyfishing (fresh or Saltwater) in this area ? I am willing to travel within reason. I am not from the USA, so if you specify a fish species, please also add any info on line weights, flies etc, as I noticed on my last trip to the USA that fish names vary considerably around the world. Are there any good shops in the area who could advise me ? Thanks Bruce…..

– I’m not sure about the actual fishing in that immediate area, but you’ll be within a long cast with a shooting head of one of the biggest fly shops around – Bob Marriott’s.  DON’T miss it… and set yourself a budget before you walk in the door. <<grin Joe Ellis         o/~ The Synthetic Filker o/~ |    TesserAct Studios  ()X  Darwin (;        Now on the Web at      |   Fairfield, OH 45018  //~~~LL~~~~LL~  http://shell.idt.net/~ellis69 |  New Dimensions In Filk!

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Question:

Next week I have to take my son down to Sunny Florida to get him registered for his first semister at U of F.  We will combine the trip with some vacation time in Pensacola (western tip of the panhandle).  While there we will be doing some fly fishing for specs and reds along the grass flats of the intercoastal waterway. Does anyone out there have any info on the current state of the fishery and hot flys for this type of fishing.  We might also try some surf flycasting along the Gulf Coast.  Any ideas or tips in this regard? Thanks in advance, Bryan

Oh well, I guess nobody knows anything about this area.  Well anyway I’m outta here. Bryan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Remember:  Fishing is NOT a matter of life and death.               It is much more important than that!            Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day.               Teach a man to fish and you get rid of him on weekends. Bryan Call (719)590-5772  |All opinions expressed here are mine & mine alone. Hewlett-Packard Co.       |  But then, I’ve never let that stop me before.     P.O. BOX 2197             |    Many men go fishing all their lives without Colorado Springs, Co 80901|    knowing that it is not fish they are after.

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Next week I have to take my son down to Sunny Florida to get him registered for his first semister at U of F.  We will combine the trip with some vacation time in Pensacola (western tip of the panhandle).  While there we will be doing some fly fishing for specs and reds along the grass flats of the intercoastal waterway. Does anyone out there have any info on the current state of the fishery and hot flys for this type of fishing.  We might also try some surf flycasting along the Gulf Coast.  Any ideas or tips in this regard? Thanks in advance, Bryan Remember:  Fishing is NOT a matter of life and death.               It is much more important than that!            Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day.               Teach a man to fish and you get rid of him on weekends. Bryan Call (719)590-5772  |All opinions expressed here are mine & mine alone. Hewlett-Packard Co.       |  But then, I’ve never let that stop me before.     P.O. BOX 2197             |    Many men go fishing all their lives without Colorado Springs, Co 80901|    knowing that it is not fish they are after.

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