Question:

I am a recent arrival to the Central Valley- the Elk Grove area of Sacramento to be exact- and I’m looking for some fishing area tips. I did go out last night to the Sac River just south of the Freeport Bridge and caught cats with my neighbors, but catfishing is not my favorite pasttime. I did however learn several new tackle tips ; Magic String, Sliders" etc..  While I can tolerate bait fishing and always catch fishing using bait, it is not my favorite fishing. My former pursuits were the smallmouth bass of eastern NY rivers (Hoosick, Hudson, Mohawk) on spin and fly tackle so that may give you an idea of the kind of fishing I’m used to. I am perfectly happy fishing for bluegill  with a light fly rod and I have thoroughly enjoyed the occasional carp I’ve tied into. I know the area here has a wealth of fishing I’m just not sure where it is! I would like to start with freshwater sites for now. I do have a canoe so any smallcraft waters  directions would also be appreciated. Also any local publications I should be reading will be greatly appreciated. Also which stamps are worth the purchase on a CA fishing license? Thanks for being computer literate anglers! Phil

Response:

Get the Fish Sniffer, publisher is in Elk Grove.  Lots of fishing.  The pits next to I-5 hold bass, you can fish from shore, or canoe.  Get Tom Stienstra’s book, Fishing California, lists every bit of fishable water in the state.  The Stanislaus river is good, and canoe friendly.  Go up to Verona and shad may still be there, can fish fron the sandbar in the Feather.  Float the Sac above Colusa with the canoe.  Smallies, shad, salmon, LMB. Bill

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I am a recent arrival to the Central Valley- the Elk Grove area of Sacramento to be exact- and I’m looking for some fishing area tips. I did go out last night to the Sac River just south of the Freeport Bridge and caught cats with my neighbors, but catfishing is not my favorite pasttime. I did however learn several new tackle tips ; Magic String, Sliders" etc..  While I can tolerate bait fishing and always catch fishing using bait, it is not my favorite fishing. My former pursuits were the smallmouth bass of eastern NY rivers (Hoosick, Hudson, Mohawk) on spin and fly tackle so that may give you an idea of the kind of fishing I’m used to. I am perfectly happy fishing for bluegill  with a light fly rod and I have thoroughly enjoyed the occasional carp I’ve tied into. I know the area here has a wealth of fishing I’m just not sure where it is! I would like to start with freshwater sites for now. I do have a canoe so any smallcraft waters  directions would also be appreciated. Also any local publications I should be reading will be greatly appreciated. Also which stamps are worth the purchase on a CA fishing license? Thanks for being computer literate anglers! Phil

Response:

Question:

Joe joemit writes: One guy I know fished for his two week vacation and landed 114 landlocks. That’s not shabby anywhere I know of. Downriggers, leadcore or wire line are a must. Troll needlefish or small spoons and look for fish suspended over  water 80′ plus suspended from 40-5-0 feet (less in the early morning). Good luck if you get the chance to go. Let me know how you make out.

Not shabby?  Uhhhh, it is if you are posting to a fly fishing newsgroup.  <g Eighty feet deep?  Shit, I’ll be into my backing just to get the fly down that deep. I’d much rather fish streams and rivers in Maine and consistantly catch ouananiche in the two pound range, sometimes bigger, on dry flies and nymphs. Streamers work too. Dave LaCourse

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Joe joemit writes: One guy I know fished for his two week vacation and landed 114 landlocks. That’s not shabby anywhere I know of. Downriggers, leadcore or wire line are a must. Troll needlefish or small spoons and look for fish suspended over  water 80′ plus suspended from 40-5-0 feet (less in the early morning). Good luck if you get the chance to go. Let me know how you make out. Not shabby?  Uhhhh, it is if you are posting to a fly fishing newsgroup. <g Eighty feet deep?  Shit, I’ll be into my backing just to get the fly down that deep. I’d much rather fish streams and rivers in Maine and consistantly catch ouananiche in the two pound range, sometimes bigger, on dry flies and nymphs. Streamers work too. Dave LaCourse

… using the same technique

Response:

Paul Goodwin writes: Not shabby?  Uhhhh, it is if you are posting to a fly fishing newsgroup. <g Eighty feet deep?  Shit, I’ll be into my backing just to get the fly down that deep. I’d much rather fish streams and rivers in Maine and consistantly catch ouananiche in the two pound range, sometimes bigger, on dry flies and nymphs. Streamers work too. Dave LaCourse … using the same technique

LOL.  Yeah.  Fall off the X rock into the current and get dragged into the pond and you’ll *swear* the water is 80 foot deep. Dave LaCourse

Response:

Joe, thanks for the post, although it’s a bit out of place in a flyfishing group.  Hell, I love to fish the Quabbin, but 50 feet deep is still 40 feet deeper than I ever fish a flyline.  Flyfishing for landlocks?  I don’t think so.  Not even in the early season when they’re  up on top.  The only flyfishing I’ve done in the main res. is for the smallies in May when they come into the shallows. –Stan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I haven’t posted on this site since last winter as I’d rather be fishing than typing but I just had to take second and let any readers from New England know about the great landlock fishingwe’ve been having at Quabbin Reservoir in central Massachusetts. The cold wet summer we’ve had have kept the fish up and they’re suspending at 40-50 feet rather than 60+ as they do most years.<and cetera

Response:

Yankee fish? A local lake here in Nova Scotia has a native stock. But thanks for your effort ;^) — Jamie http://clik.to/flyfish

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "ouananiche" Spell it as it is pronounced please. um, let’s see…oh you a-nah neesh?  no?  well, what about wah nah nish?  not right, eh?  well, how about…oh the hell with it. goddam stupid yankee fish, anyways. wayno, a man with better things to do

Response:

Are they on top in the fall, winter or spring? Thanks. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I haven’t posted on this site since last winter as I’d rather be fishing than typing but I just had to take second and let any readers from New England know about the great landlock fishingwe’ve been having at Quabbin Reservoir in central Massachusetts. The cold wet summer we’ve had have kept the fish up and they’re suspending at 40-50 feet rather than 60+ as they do most years. The result has been some great fishing. Any trip will bring at least a couple salmon and many days produce 10 or more fish. A lot are small in the 1 1/2 pound class but enough are three pounds plus to make it interesting and a few six po8unders have been landed. A state fisheries biologist recently predicted the bigger fish 6 lb. + are in teh closed section of the reservoir over the really deep water fro thd summer but should begin moving into the fishable water in mid Sept. so things should get even better. One guy I know fished for his two week vacation and landed 114 landlocks. That’s not shabby anywhere I know of. Downriggers, leadcore or wire line are a must. Troll needlefish or small spoons and look for fish suspended over  water 80′ plus suspended from 40-5-0 feet (less in the early morning). Good luck if you get the chance to go. Let me know how you make out.

Response:

Jamie Heim: "ouananiche" Spell it as it is pronounced please.

I did:  "ouananiche". Dave LaCourse

Response:

Dave L. writes: Jamie Heim: "ouananiche" Spell it as it is pronounced please. I did:  "ouananiche". Dave LaCourse

Ooops!  Forgot.  I believe the word is northeast/Canadian Indian – Algonquin, Cree – and is pronouced: wa – na- neesh, with the emphasis on the last sylable. However, land locked salmon seems to work best in Maine.  <g Dave LaCourse

Response:

"ouananiche" Spell it as it is pronounced please.

        um, let’s see…oh you a-nah neesh?  no?  well, what about wah nah nish?  not right, eh?  well, how about…oh the hell with it. goddam stupid yankee fish, anyways. wayno, a man with better things to do

Response:

"ouananiche" Spell it as it is pronounced please. — Jamie http://clik.to/flyfish

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Paul Goodwin writes: Not shabby?  Uhhhh, it is if you are posting to a fly fishing newsgroup. <g Eighty feet deep?  Shit, I’ll be into my backing just to get the fly down that deep. I’d much rather fish streams and rivers in Maine and consistantly catch ouananiche in the two pound range, sometimes bigger, on dry flies and nymphs. Streamers work too. Dave LaCourse … using the same technique LOL.  Yeah.  Fall off the X rock into the current and get dragged into the pond and you’ll *swear* the water is 80 foot deep. Dave LaCourse

Response:

I haven’t posted on this site since last winter as I’d rather be fishing than typing but I just had to take second and let any readers from New England know about the great landlock fishingwe’ve been having at Quabbin Reservoir in central Massachusetts. The cold wet summer we’ve had have kept the fish up and they’re suspending at 40-50 feet rather than 60+ as they do most years. The result has been some great fishing. Any trip will bring at least a couple salmon and many days produce 10 or more fish. A lot are small in the 1 1/2 pound class but enough are three pounds plus to make it interesting and a few six po8unders have been landed. A state fisheries biologist recently predicted the bigger fish 6 lb. + are in teh closed section of the reservoir over the really deep water fro thd summer but should begin moving into the fishable water in mid Sept. so things should get even better. One guy I know fished for his two week vacation and landed 114 landlocks. That’s not shabby anywhere I know of. Downriggers, leadcore or wire line are a must. Troll needlefish or small spoons and look for fish suspended over  water 80′ plus suspended from 40-5-0 feet (less in the early morning). Good luck if you get the chance to go. Let me know how you make out.

Response:

Question:

George, I honestly think no one wants a $300 cane rod, that is why you have to push them all the time. Cane rods are not for newbies , they are for enthusiasts. They cannot compete with graphite on pure performance, although you say yours can!  Cane  if for when you discover that hertage and  presentation is what draws you to the sport. Fly fishing has more to with history  and the joy of fishing with a piece of equipment that  the maker has spent some time on and not  his rejects. George, this is a new mellenium where folk are prepared to spend a little cash on a nice piece of equipment.  I live in an area where cycling is a big thing. Do they all ride $100 bikes? no chance, they all ride hand made racing bikes and dress up to match, even if they look bloody stupid. Dont sell yourself short George, good cane has never ben cheap.  Terry   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As of this moment (please note time and date) let’s see who smart mouths who or who demeans whom first. I’m here to talk fly fishing.  Always have and will always try to do just that.   Less everyone forget that the Bastard Bamboo Fly Rod Company was started here in Roff and it was my money I put on the line.  The $300 fly rods are still available so let no one forget the promise and challenge was met. I know how to keep promises and I know how to meet challenges.  First off, I think everyone should take this Darwinian Concept and pitch it in the trash pile because its nothing more than an excuse to wander off the beaten path.  That includes our foreign visitors to ROFF. So there it is.  Either hone up to what Rec.Outdoors.Fishing.Fly is all about or go to the proper newsgroups to discuss those darwinian subjects. They don’t belong here. Nuff Said:  Let’s see who throws the first stone. As Jesus said once by the village well while everyone stoned the prostitute:  "He who is without sin, let them cast the first stone!" Whereas:  This little woman staggers over with this big rock and drops it on the persecuted one’s head! Aghast!  Jesus says: "You know ma?  Sometimes you really can piss me off." — Mr.Gink "the saga continues"   http://www.gink.com/

Response:

George G. writes: I’m here to talk fly fishing.  Always have and will always try to do just that.  

Well, my oldest grandson and I just returned from a wonderful trip to Labrador.  Fishing was tough because of flood conditions and the weather, but we caught some nice brook trout on #16 and #18 Goddard Caddis’.   We had trouble keeping the fly afloat because of the wind and rain, but Jeff used Dave’s Bug Flote (sic), and I used Albolene and the problem was solved. Both worked really well, as well as any floatant on the market. Dave LaCourse "The Sag Continues"

Response:

<< I’m here to talk fly fishing.  Always have and will always try to do just that.   George, take a moment and look at your last months worth of posts.  They consist almost entirely of infammatory topics.  Hell, I would love to talk fishing with you.  You only about two hours from me and we could probably share a lot of information but you can’t seem to keep yourself out of the bullseye. I know there are a lot of people here who don’t like you and that makes it difficult to post anything without somebody twisting it and taking a shot at you.  However, an awful lot of your post are self centered and self serving and that turns the rest of us off.  We all have our faults and I am by no means perfect but I have to tell ya that you bring an awful lot of grief down on yourself by the way you write and by what you choose to write about. Why don’t you just let ROFF go?  There are some great local fly fishing newsgroups that focus on fishing and not ego’s and hate wars.  Focus your energy there. Mike Spokane, WA

Response:

Good God George, take a pill or something…..There is no need what so ever for your diatribes. Go to Montana and chill for heaven sake. Harry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As of this moment (please note time and date) let’s see who smart mouths who or who demeans whom first. I’m here to talk fly fishing.  Always have and will always try to do just that.   Less everyone forget that the Bastard Bamboo Fly Rod Company was started here in Roff and it was my money I put on the line.  The $300 fly rods are still available so let no one forget the promise and challenge was met. I know how to keep promises and I know how to meet challenges.  First off, I think everyone should take this Darwinian Concept and pitch it in the trash pile because its nothing more than an excuse to wander off the beaten path.  That includes our foreign visitors to ROFF. So there it is.  Either hone up to what Rec.Outdoors.Fishing.Fly is all about or go to the proper newsgroups to discuss those darwinian subjects. They don’t belong here. Nuff Said:  Let’s see who throws the first stone. As Jesus said once by the village well while everyone stoned the prostitute:  "He who is without sin, let them cast the first stone!" Whereas:  This little woman staggers over with this big rock and drops it on the persecuted one’s head! Aghast!  Jesus says: "You know ma?  Sometimes you really can piss me off."

Response:

The only saga that continues – your irrationality.  There’s no point responding to your post line-by-line, the self-serving bullshit it contains is obvious to everyone.  So let me put this as succintly as possible – GO AWAY! Peter

Response:

Why don’t you just let ROFF go?  There are some great local fly fishing newsgroups that focus on fishing and not ego’s and hate wars.  Focus your energy there. Mike Spokane, WA

__– Well simply put, because I have several hundred people who stalk roff and like what we say regarding fly fishing.  It is the unsung heroes of fly fishing who wait patiently for those nice articles and I will continue to post those articles Mike in a straight forward and hopefully, interesting manner. I understand what you’re saying, and we will try to improve in that area.  Other than that, I think there is a small group here in Roff that I wouldn’t give the time of day too.  You should hear what that silent majority has to say about the flamers and smart mouths out east and in Germany.  They are fed up with them and it isn’t I that they are mostly unhappy with.  What they complain the most about is ROFF doesn’t talks about fishing enough.   Other than that, I agree with you and we should get together sometime soon.  Possibly when this entire crew gets back from the expedition? Thanks for your input, but I’m not leaving.  There are too many on the back stage who support me more than the other side.  The challenge still stands.   — "the saga will continue on my terms" In the meantime, we are working hard on the web site for all our friends and clients.   http://www.gink.com/  Just talk fly fishing!

Response:

Good God George, take a pill or something…..There is no need what so ever for your diatribes. Go to Montana and chill for heaven sake. Harry

Talk fly fishing Harry.  Talk fly fishing.  Nothing else matters. — Mr.Gink "the saga continues"   http://www.gink.com/

Response:

__– Well simply put, because I have several hundred people who stalk roff and like what we say regarding fly fishing.  It is the unsung heroes of fly fishing who wait patiently for those nice articles and I will continue to post those articles Mike in a straight forward and hopefully, interesting manner.

Why don’t you and your legion of imaginary friends go and get fucked? — Levi "So long, and thanks for all the fish."

Response:

. Less everyone forget that the Bastard Bamboo Fly Rod Company was started here in Roff and it was my money I put on the line.  The $300 fly rods are still available so let no one forget the promise and challenge was met.

Let’s see who’s the honest one here you arrogant SOB. Perhaps we should email that little ditty to every creditor on your bankruptcy list whom we could find an email address for. Oh yea, I also have the email where you acknowledged "there were problems" with the $300 rods. So much for the challenge being met. Wayne Tired of Kansas (no trout and the sms is ungodly expensive) Tired of Not Fishing And Tired of the Bullshit.

Response:

Grow up, George. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

"Can’t we all just get along…ppplease, people, (sniff)…?" Alex (thoroughly amused at the seriousness with which some folks take themselves).

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As of this moment (please note time and date) let’s see who smart mouths who or who demeans whom first. I’m here to talk fly fishing.  Always have and will always try to do just that. Less everyone forget that the Bastard Bamboo Fly Rod Company was started here in Roff and it was my money I put on the line.  The $300 fly rods are still available so let no one forget the promise and challenge was met. I know how to keep promises and I know how to meet challenges.  First off, I think everyone should take this Darwinian Concept and pitch it in the trash pile because its nothing more than an excuse to wander off the beaten path.  That includes our foreign visitors to ROFF. So there it is.  Either hone up to what Rec.Outdoors.Fishing.Fly is all about or go to the proper newsgroups to discuss those darwinian subjects. They don’t belong here. Nuff Said:  Let’s see who throws the first stone. As Jesus said once by the village well while everyone stoned the prostitute:  "He who is without sin, let them cast the first stone!" Whereas:  This little woman staggers over with this big rock and drops it on the persecuted one’s head! Aghast!  Jesus says: "You know ma?  Sometimes you really can piss me off." — Mr.Gink "the saga continues" http://www.gink.com/

Response:

As of this moment (please note time and date) let’s see who smart mouths who or who demeans whom first. I’m here to talk fly fishing.  Always have and will always try to do just that.   Less everyone forget that the Bastard Bamboo Fly Rod Company was started here in Roff and it was my money I put on the line.  The $300 fly rods are still available so let no one forget the promise and challenge was met. I know how to keep promises and I know how to meet challenges.  First off, I think everyone should take this Darwinian Concept and pitch it in the trash pile because its nothing more than an excuse to wander off the beaten path.  That includes our foreign visitors to ROFF. So there it is.  Either hone up to what Rec.Outdoors.Fishing.Fly is all about or go to the proper newsgroups to discuss those darwinian subjects. They don’t belong here. Nuff Said:  Let’s see who throws the first stone. As Jesus said once by the village well while everyone stoned the prostitute:  "He who is without sin, let them cast the first stone!" Whereas:  This little woman staggers over with this big rock and drops it on the persecuted one’s head! Aghast!  Jesus says: "You know ma?  Sometimes you really can piss me off." — Mr.Gink "the saga continues"   http://www.gink.com/

Response:

Question:

 Hello..  Please excuse my extrusion if I am off topic. I am Ike, I sell  flyfishing flies. If you want a superior fly that lasts and is  made to not only catch fish but catch more per fly!!! , you might  want to check out my web site. I use only the top materials available  in the field and my flies are proven to catch in both still and running  water. Please visit http://www.greatbasin.net/~bronco/IBFSHN.html  Order yours today!!!  Regards..  IKE

Response:

  Sneakers Tackle Co  Has a really nice Package to Sell.  Pete The owner AND   MAKER of these Lures says YOU’ll Love them.   The package consists of    3 Braided Wire Worm Harness’    3 Skirted Jigs   w/ Trailers    3 Short Bite Stinger Hooks    2 Spin Jig Minnows    2 1/16 oz Flutter Spoons    1 1/4 oz. weedless Fire Tiger Spoon    6 Live Bait Wobble Jigs    3  12 packs  Twirl Tail Grubs     Order   Stock # 750        Sneakers Tackle Co.                                          424 Petroleum St                                           Titusville Pa 16354   2045                                         Attn.    Carol j Shaffer                  

Response:

Question:

I’ve built a kayak cart for my Caspia and question that $30 amount.  The wheels alone for mine cost $12 each.  Sure, I could have paid less but I wanted wheels at least 8" to make it easy to roll.    

Mine has 10" wheels that were $7.96 apiece. I’ve posted a picture and description on my Web pages: http://home.earthlink.net/~iadams/ Follow the kayaking link. Ira  Adams

Response:

I’ve built a kayak cart for my Caspia and question that $30 amount.  The wheels alone for mine cost $12 each.  Sure, I could have paid less but I wanted wheels at least 8" to make it easy to roll.     Mine has 10" wheels that were $7.96 apiece. I’ve posted a picture and description on my Web pages: http://home.earthlink.net/~iadams/ Follow the kayaking link.

Whoops! The link in question was messed up on my site. It’s fixed now. Ira  Adams

Response:

You might call Keel Haulers Outfitters 1-800-484-9832 They sell both Perception & Wilderness Systems Kayaks. Check out their WEB page — John Kobak <A <P<A HREF="http://www.awa.org/awa/affil_clubs/keelhaul/kh.htm"Keel Haulers Canoe Club</A <P<A HREF="http://pages.prodigy.net/keelhauler/"Outfitters Catalog</A

Response:

I went down that road too just recently. If you plan on using your Kayak solo at any time, consider that a tandem is difficult for one person to use. I was looking at the Pamlico and the Jocassee until this point was made and I relalized that my fishing would be affected. Also there is such a thing as too much togetherness. You know, back seat drivers, speed demons verses the coasters, sightseers verses the goal seekers. It cost a lot more but we now have his and hers kayaks. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am looking to buy a kayak that will be used on lakes and possibly rivers (calm).  I want a tandem kayak and have looked at Perceptions Keowee 2 and Jocassee.  The salesman also mentioned Wilderness Systems Pamlico and Pamlico Excel although he didn’t have any in stock at the time.  I would appreciated any info folks in the group may be able to give me concerning these kayaks.  Is there much maintenance on these rotomolded kayaks?   It has been over 20 years since I went white water rating with a tour group and as I would like to get back into shape and the wife likes water (calm) I figured a tandem kayak would be perfect.  Again thanks for any info you can give a beginner.  

Response:

I went down that road too just recently. If you plan on using your Kayak solo at any time, consider that a tandem is difficult for one person to use. I was looking at the Pamlico and the Jocassee until this point was made and I relalized that my fishing would be affected.

Actually, the Jocassee paddles very nicely as a single (unless you’re silly enough to try paddling it alone without moving the front seat back to the singles position). The only disadvantage to using the Jocassee for flatwater fishing would be that it’s heavy and thus can be awkward to load/unload by oneself. It will require a dolly to move by yourself unless you’re a weightlifter. A dolly can be two wheels & an axle, from the local Wal-Mart – $30, tops. If I’m correct in thinking that the Pamlico is a Jocassee knock-off, then it would probably work just as well. The Keowee 2 would be good also, with the advantages of being lighter, shorter, and easier to handle, and the disadvantages of being slower to paddle and having not quite as much room for gear or friends. Ira  Adams

Response:

I went down that road too just recently. If you plan on using your Kayak solo at any time, consider that a tandem is difficult for one person to use. I was looking at the Pamlico and the Jocassee until this point was made and I relalized that my fishing would be affected.

There is a Pamlico Sport.  It’s a Pamlico equipped with a Motorguide 20 ft/lb. electric trolling motor which can be lowered and raised while sitting in the cockpit and steered with your feet.   Actually, the Jocassee paddles very nicely as a single (unless you’re silly enough to try paddling it alone without moving the front seat back to the singles position). The only disadvantage to using the Jocassee for flatwater fishing would be that it’s heavy and thus can be awkward to load/unload by oneself. It will require a dolly to move by yourself unless you’re a weightlifter. A dolly can be two wheels & an axle, from the local Wal-Mart – $30, tops.

I’ve built a kayak cart for my Caspia and question that $30 amount.  The wheels alone for mine cost $12 each.  Sure, I could have paid less but I wanted wheels at least 8" to make it easy to roll.     BTW, I’ve done a bit of flyfishing from my Caspia since I’ve owned it.  I had a carp on a few weeks ago that was easily over 10 pounds and pulled me all over the river.  After fighting it for almost a half an hour it finally broke me off. John Fereira Stop Unsolicited Commercial Email – Join CAUCE (http://www.cauce.org) Support HR 1748, the anti-spam bill.

Response:

I am looking to buy a kayak that will be used on lakes and possibly rivers (calm).  I want a tandem kayak and have looked at Perceptions Keowee 2 and Jocassee.  The salesman also mentioned Wilderness Systems Pamlico and Pamlico Excel although he didn’t have any in stock at the time.  I would appreciated any info folks in the group may be able to give me concerning these kayaks.  Is there much maintenance on these rotomolded kayaks?   It has been over 20 years since I went white water rating with a tour group and as I would like to get back into shape and the wife likes water (calm) I figured a tandem kayak would be perfect.  Again thanks for any info you can give a beginner.  

Response:

" As far as Perceptions kayaks, they take a beating and keep on competing. They wear like steel and even with thousands of scratches, still handle like a dream. I have used their kayaks for over ten years in all kinds of conditions. Good Luck on your choice.                                                         DJMK – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am looking to buy a kayak that will be used on lakes and possibly rivers (calm).  I want a tandem kayak and have looked at Perceptions Keowee 2 and Jocassee.  The salesman also mentioned Wilderness Systems Pamlico and Pamlico Excel although he didn’t have any in stock at the time.  I would appreciated any info folks in the group may be able to give me concerning these kayaks.  Is there much maintenance on these rotomolded kayaks?   It has been over 20 years since I went white water rating with a tour group and as I would like to get back into shape and the wife likes water (calm) I figured a tandem kayak would be perfect.  Again thanks for any info you can give a beginner.  

Response:

I am looking to buy a kayak that will be used on lakes and possibly rivers (calm).  I want a tandem kayak and have looked at Perceptions Keowee 2 and Jocassee.  The salesman also mentioned Wilderness Systems Pamlico and Pamlico Excel although he didn’t have any in stock at the time.  I would appreciated any info folks in the group may be able to give me concerning these kayaks.  Is there much maintenance on these rotomolded kayaks?  

I’m far from expert, but after years of mooching off my friend’s canoe I finally sprang for my own boat(s). I just purchased a Pamlico and so far have had it out once on a lake for it’s shakedown cruise. I’m pleased with it so far, it was easily handled as a single and works as a double as long as you don’t plan on packing anything. The load is 325 lbs. My wife and I don’t leave a lot to spare. It’s very nice for an adult and child. However tandem paddling with two double bladed kayak paddles is an art that we’ve not yet mastered. It was suggested and I’m tending to agree that a forward kayak paddle for power and a rear canoe paddle for rudder is an easier way to go. From what I can tell, this load is about average for the doubles; although the Pamlico Excel is about 2 ft longer and should support more weight. If you want substantially bigger loads you might consider a plain canoe. I did say boat(s) plural. We also picked up a Wilderness Systems Rascal. This is a one man kayak (200 lb load). Its design is such that it is not easily rolled. My wife seemed to really enjoy it. I even put my 9-year old in it. I got them at "Appomatox River Company" in Farmville Va. They’re in the middle of nowhere but they were extremely nice and had the biggest selection and best prices I could find. Check them out at : http://www.moonstar.com/~arc/ PGP key available from "http://www.mnsinc.com/moore"                      Dave Moore

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Question:

Ok… Phil baby has told me about the billfish tragedy and that maybe I should not eat them.  He has also suggested that sharks should not be eaten, because of the rapes of that industry. Is there anything (except wild fish that I catch myself) that I can still feel good about eating ?   Lobsters ? Better not… Dolphin…? Whoops !!!! Grouper…? Getting thin… Salmon…? Not in this newsgroup, puhlease… Shark, turbot, wahoo, mackeral, cats, specks, reds, cod, perch, ????? Brook Trout !!! Yeah baby ! Plenty O’ Them !! TimW What is becoming of our world ?

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Ok… Phil baby has told me about the billfish tragedy and that maybe I should not eat them.  He has also suggested that sharks should not be eaten, because of the rapes of that industry. Is there anything (except wild fish that I catch myself) that I can still feel good about eating ? TimW What is becoming of our world ?

Hi Tim Yes I do release most of the trout I catch but I do keep a few Mountain White Fish for dinner. I like them cleaned (a good idea), then fill the body cavity with a couple of slices of onion, butter, a small wedge of lemon, and salt/other stuff to taste. Roll all this up in a tin-foil wrapper, place it "near" the coals of a quiet/calm campfire and cook it 8 minutes on the first side and 4 minutes on the second (adjust more or less according to the size of the white fish)OR on a regular grill for the same times. Good Tying & … — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

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Hi Al, The Roaring Fork is a really excellent whitefish river.   It’s funny, but I’ve never just ‘cooked them up’.  I do smoke them though.  This I do only once or twice a year as I think the smoke is not all that healthy to eat.   Charlie Quinton is coming down this weekend from Laramie to fish, so I went scouting last sunday afternoon.  I caught a 22 inch brown on the 3rd cast. Released it and hooked it’s big sister on the next, which got off in the current.  Started catching whiteys after that, big bruiser ones. Did not catch a single bow.  I was really suprised.  I’m not sure if the spawn is over or gearing up to go.   I hiked up the 3 mile trib and saw none.  (I would NOT have fished to them had I…) Might have to try simply ‘cooking one up’.  Thanks. TimW

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: Lobsters ? Better not… : "Lobsters"? Is this because your pals at PETA had a "lobster rescue" last : year (PE)T(A)-Bone? (oops I mean "Moe") Stop.  C’mon now… this has gone on long enough.  Stop.  Really. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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ld ? Of all the pressing problems in this world, do you really think C&R fishing is an important issue?

Obviously not! It’s pedantic nonsense! Ralph H

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Is there anything (except wild fish that I catch myself) that I can still feel good about eating ? TimW

you can eat all the BC Pink salmon you want. They’re delicious, easy to catch and all the ones in the fish shop are wild … and relatively cheap. Ralph H

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When I want fish to eat, I go to a small local lake which is heavily stocked.  It’s fun to catch even stupid fish.  I still get away from the grind.  And I feel just fine about keeping what I catch, since I paid for it to be put there for me…a lot like a visit to the supermarket except you don’t have to keep unhooking bag boys from your backcast. — Laboratory for Applied Logic    Dept. of Computer Science University of Idaho             www: http://www.cs.uidaho.edu/~foster —–BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK—– Version: 2.6.2 mQCNAzDtvLEAAAEEAKAC21G2Be0K0DMgjLpxrwLmsYfCz8rWcfgyABjr3Ryfk1dO nV7fFFpUF3xohR7die+/B2V9oqRQzTLeSF2ECKlsTY/yUyw2kn+P2ju1umh4Fwzd cVTvc+H69q1+Ft3kmw/PE0Pan+g0PUGGJ43stw3q4OgBHdixbRd/f9giJFDxAAUR tCZKYW1lcyBBLiBGb3N0ZXIgPGZvc3RlckBjcy51aWRhaG8uZWR1PokAlQMFEDIR FaeEvoC3uR1YOQEBOlAEAKIGMgrGku99CVdMKNvme4F2diQBFiDtL7Nyz0c9wVK5 QMQinayA4za6hcJRvFZU663JPjegRxbbjoUkiUTs2G+BXMSM7WI+raywqlBd+dQx zZTMkEzpYeuuyci4aKAvmk7PGuJGw5kRWUbMSdSNiGRWqo6CoW74M2kGsKuSA6ME iQCVAwUQMPxF4Rd/f9giJFDxAQEWsAP/YAW5FZwP/cwQ0LeokwL86vWrGSeOQrtS /5MN/Ysc85gYcFsb0/Ja5dDyh/QN34ljB/+3OU71iTWzXNN2KR+uJqTbUVbRsKiT EMiEDebKmlkhkNZUD0LK8Nge4/kiLU2QG+hxpvzXcnMMtkD7SJU3mx5sZv3NJdHh lrjuGWuId48= =G/K7 —–END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK—–

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(Al and Tim are talking about eating whitefish) Yeah, you know, I think I’ll try some this year myself. One question, though:  Have either of you ever noticed a difference in eatin’ quality between fish caught at different times of the year?  I hear folks up in Wa. go after them in the winter but not so much in the summer.  Why? I did keep a 19 incher a few years back during the summer, froze it, and then tried to eat it later but when it thawed it was just a bag of goo… Any idea if that was from the freezing, or just because it was a summer fish? —- A sign of what’s becoming of our world? – the new Oregon regs has a list of waters growing fish that are not safe to eat, basically.  It’s a new section Dave DeLacey Corvallis, Or.

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Hi Al, .  I caught a 22 inch brown on the 3rd cast. Released it and hooked it’s big sister on the next, which got off in the current.  . TimW OH MY GOD! WHO EVER WOULD HAVE THOUGHT IT POSSIBLE?

I was, uh, hunting whitefish at the time I *accidentally* caught this magnificent wild fish.   Plus, uh, my Grill_Lux II Pro-Sports Model Outdoor 145K BTU with the Smoker attachment and Bean spinner only has a 20 inch opening. TimW [Damn !!! I meant to send this private email to Al...]

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Stop.  C’mon now… this has gone on long enough.  Stop.  Really. — Rick

Yeah: 1) we all catch fish; 2) almost all of us like to take a fish home for supper (any disagreement there0 3) some of see this as an essential part of the support; they are entitled    to their opinion and should be allowed to practice this aspect of the    pursuit 4) we all agree that is necessary to release fish for a variety of reasons 5) we all agree that a lot of excellent waters are over fished and have too    much angling pressure. combine that with a lot of c&r and many report    the fish and the fishing suffer. 6) some primarily c&r anglers catch and release slake their fish lust to      excess. 7) given 5 & 6 (and a variety of other issues) angling ethics and regulation    must continue to evolve to preserve the sport. So maybe we can agree on some fundamentals and end this? Can even the prophet(s) among us agree on this? Ralph H

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Hi Al, .  I caught a 22 inch brown on the 3rd cast. Released it and hooked it’s big sister on the next, which got off in the current.  . TimW

OH MY GOD! WHO EVER WOULD HAVE THOUGHT IT POSSIBLE? Ralph H 8^)

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  I have heard they are good smoked, but never have been able to keep them lit. No good will become a fellow who smokes a whitefish. Spinolio

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Is there anything (except wild fish that I catch myself) that I can still feel good about eating ? Lobsters ? Better not… "Lobsters"? Is this because your pals at PETA had a "lobster rescue" last year (PE)T(A)-Bone? (oops I mean "Moe")

Actually, yes. I believe that they did highlight the scientific communities findings that the number of spiny lobsters making the migration has declined in devastating numbers and noone is quite sure why.  This is a huge disaster that any lover of wildlife (which you claim to be) should be interested in. [rest of (PE)T(A)-Bone's, oops "Moe's", stupid list snipped]

How can a list be ’stupid’ ? It is just a list, eh… What is becoming of our world ? Of all the pressing problems in this world, do you really think C&R fishing is an important issue? Besides with annoying AR-loons like yourself, that is.

Uh…excuse me Doug Mackenzie, eh…but if I see pure C&R as the only handhold PETA will need to bring sportfishing down crashing around us, well then it does rank up there as pretty significant in this NG.  But, I guess after a couple of Molsons the ‘Loomis Vs. Sage’ thread would seem pretty damned important, eh ? TimW

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Al, .  I caught a 22 inch brown on the 3rd cast. Released it and hooked it’s big sister on the next, which got off in the current.  . TimW OH MY GOD! WHO EVER WOULD HAVE THOUGHT IT POSSIBLE? I was, uh, hunting whitefish at the time I *accidentally* caught this magnificent wild fish.   Plus, uh, my Grill_Lux II Pro-Sports Model Outdoor 145K BTU with the Smoker attachment and Bean spinner only has a 20 inch opening. TimW [Damn !!! I meant to send this private email to Al...]

ROTFL! What a sport! Ralph H

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OH MY GOD! WHO EVER WOULD HAVE THOUGHT IT POSSIBLE? I was, uh, hunting whitefish at the time I *accidentally* caught this magnificent wild fish.   Plus, uh, my Grill_Lux II Pro-Sports Model Outdoor 145K BTU with the Smoker attachment and Bean spinner only has a 20 inch opening. TimW [Damn !!! I meant to send this private email to Al...]

I’ve looked high and low for one of them bean spinners.  Where’d you find yours? Mike

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  I have heard they are good smoked, but never have been able to keep them lit. No good will become a fellow who smokes a whitefish.

…the tears are rolling down my cheeks…you are a sick and funny man steve… TimW

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(Al and Tim are talking about eating whitefish) Yeah, you know, I think I’ll try some this year myself. One question, though:  Have either of you ever noticed a difference in eatin’ quality between fish caught at different times of the year?  I hear folks up in Wa. go after them in the winter but not so much in the summer.  Why?

Definately, but it depends on the situation.  The poor trout suffer through long winters in some places and are in poor condition for fighten’ or eatin’ in the spring.  The same lake might have pike that are perfect at iceout, from eating the trout.  I think that browns suffer from competetion from the rainbows and whitefish here in the winter and are in better shape by the end of summer.  High mountain areas, the fish are in the best shape in the middle of summer. TimW

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OH MY GOD! WHO EVER WOULD HAVE THOUGHT IT POSSIBLE? I was, uh, hunting whitefish at the time I *accidentally* caught this magnificent wild fish. Plus, uh, my Grill_Lux II Pro-Sports Model Outdoor 145K BTU with the Smoker attachment and Bean spinner only has a 20 inch opening. TimW [Damn !!! I meant to send this private email to Al...] I’ve looked high and low for one of them bean spinners.  Where’d you find yours?

In a pretty dark corner Mike…. 8^) TimW

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OH MY GOD! WHO EVER WOULD HAVE THOUGHT IT POSSIBLE? I was, uh, hunting whitefish at the time I *accidentally* caught this magnificent wild fish. Plus, uh, my Grill_Lux II Pro-Sports Model Outdoor 145K BTU with the Smoker attachment and Bean spinner only has a 20 inch opening. TimW [Damn !!! I meant to send this private email to Al...]

So.  My conspiracy theory that Ralph Cutter and George Gherke are one and the same person, and that this new Moe person has kidnapped and is posing as T-bone is off base hunh?  Would the real T-bone admit to C&R and using Orvis in his lifetime, let alone in the same week!?  Hunh?  I thought not.  Case closed.  Next week I’ll discuss the black Orvis Edition Ford Explorers and what they’re doing cruising around our best tailwaters at night.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OH MY GOD! WHO EVER WOULD HAVE THOUGHT IT POSSIBLE? I was, uh, hunting whitefish at the time I *accidentally* caught this magnificent wild fish. Plus, uh, my Grill_Lux II Pro-Sports Model Outdoor 145K BTU with the Smoker attachment and Bean spinner only has a 20 inch opening. TimW [Damn !!! I meant to send this private email to Al...] So.  My conspiracy theory that Ralph Cutter and George Gherke are one and the same person, and that this new Moe person has kidnapped and is posing as T-bone is off base hunh?  Would the real T-bone admit to C&R and using Orvis in his lifetime, let alone in the same week!?  Hunh?  I thought not.  Case closed.  Next week I’ll discuss the black Orvis Edition Ford Explorers and what they’re doing cruising around our best tailwaters at night.

You forgot about the barking dogs, Sherlock… TimW

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So.  My conspiracy theory that Ralph Cutter and George Gherke are one and the same person, and that this new Moe person has kidnapped and is posing as T-bone is off base hunh?  Would the real T-bone admit to C&R and using Orvis in his lifetime, let alone in the same week!?  Hunh?  I thought not.  Case closed.  Next week I’ll discuss the black Orvis Edition Ford Explorers and what they’re doing cruising around our best tailwaters at night.

WARNING: If you do! They might have to kill you! BE CAREFUL, I know who’s driving that Ford..and his dog doesn’t like people either..;) SWEET DREAMS… ..NAK

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  I have heard they are good smoked, but never have been able to keep them lit. No good will become a fellow who smokes a whitefish. …the tears are rolling down my cheeks…you are a sick and funny man steve… TimW

You don’t inhale do you Moe? Michael Smith

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Is there anything (except wild fish that I catch myself) that I can still feel good about eating ? Yes I do release most of the trout I catch but I do keep a few Mountain White Fish for dinner. I like them cleaned (a good idea), then fill the  ^^^^^ ^^^^

I have heard they are good smoked, but never have been able to keep them lit. -Burton

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  I have heard they are good smoked, but never have been able to keep them lit. No good will become a fellow who smokes a whitefish. Spinolio

Guess I’m lucky they wouldn’t stay lit! -Burton — L. Burton Hawley           2330 NW Hummingbird Corvallis, OR

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Question:

I have a ton of Ruffed Grouse feathers. What do flies do you use it for? Thanks!

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I have a ton of Ruffed Grouse feathers. What do flies do you use it for? Thanks!

See Sylvester Neme’s book The Soft Hackled Fly.  One grouse will go a very long way:  hackles for motion (rather than colour) and "filoplumes" for gills on large nymphs, but not much more:  Quill and tail fibres are commonly too small to use like pheasant. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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I have a ton of Ruffed Grouse feathers. What do flies do you use it for? Thanks! See Sylvester Neme’s book The Soft Hackled Fly.  One grouse will go a very long way:  hackles for motion (rather than colour) and "filoplumes" for gills on large nymphs, but not much more:  Quill and tail fibres are commonly too small to use like pheasant.

Might try crossposting it to rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.tying, those guys’ll be able to help you over there, tell ‘em TBone sent ya. 8{)…. However, my very favorite wet fly, The Breadcrust, uses Grouse tail exclusively.  What a fly ! TimW

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I have a ton of Ruffed Grouse feathers. What do flies do you use it for? Thanks!

Hi Ronald, I use grouse feathers for soft hackle flies.  I particularly like them on a bead head Hare’s Ear Softhackle.  TIP:  If you have trouble finding feathers small enough to tie #18 and smaller, you can take the fibers from a larger feather and spin them around the hook like you would spin deer hair.  In so doing you have soft hackle for just about any sized fly. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 catalog) http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

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Question:

  I read an article in a magazine that said, "although midge pupae are often fished with considerable patience on long greased leaders…"    What does a greased leader do?  How and why should you use it?  Thanks.                                           – Harald

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  I read an article in a magazine that said, "although midge pupae are often fished with considerable patience on long greased leaders…"    What does a greased leader do?  How and why should you use it?  Thanks.

It floats.  British books on lake fishing tell you how many feet of the leader to grease, so that the buzzer (chrironomid pupa fly) sinks, but only a few inches.  But N.American flies (and stillwater ecology in general) are different…. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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 I read an article in a magazine that said, "although midge pupae are often fished with considerable patience on long greased leaders…"   What does a greased leader do?  How and why should you use it?  Thanks.                                          - Harald

If you want a light pattern like a midge to suspend close to the water surface you put floatant on the leader, and this will stop the fly from going too deep,  The leader so treated will be a little more obvious to the trout.  This may be irrelevant these days since there are many suspender midge patterns which hold their possition due to matterials like foam cases. Thomas

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It just means it has some floatant rubbed on it so it floats instead of sinking under the water film.  Usually just rubbing some of your fly floatation goop on your leader to keep it from going under will work fine.

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Question:

Is there a ".marketplace" version of this newsgroup?  I was told that there is but I can’t find it. Thanks

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I just caught up on some of the previously posted stuff and I now realize that my buddy was encouraging me to vote FOR a NEW newsgroup (the "marketplace" version I was wondering about). Therefore….nevermind. Dave

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Question:

I’ll be turkey hunting in the florida area next week and was wondering if anyone has any experiance fishing the cold upstream of rte 2. Ive never fished it but seen it deep in the woods and it looks tasty but I never threw a fly there. Any info would be great!! P.S. I dont mind walking

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: I’ll be turkey hunting in the florida area next week and was wondering if : anyone has any experiance fishing the cold upstream of rte 2. Ive never : fished it but seen it deep in the woods and it looks tasty but I never : threw a fly there. : Any info would be great!! : P.S. I dont mind walking The Deerfield River guidebook describes it as a highly variable flowing stream with a small population of wild brookies.  I know the state stocks it, but I’m not sure with what, and there’s always the chance that big fish from that nice pool on the deerfield that the cold empties into could have come upstream.  I don’t know if the state stocks this river anywhere upstream of the last route 2 bridge.  They may, but I’m sure most of the fishing pressure is on the lower stretches.

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