Question:

like a good time was had by all…… –walt

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like a good time was had by all……

It was a great trip. A great Winter fishing fix. Lots of greasy food, liquor, short restless nights etc. that make a man my age regret his age the next morning. Lots of assorted grumblings about various bodily ailments throughout the group. Aging, ain’t it wonderful! There were quite a few people there on the weekend but on Monday and Tuesday, we essentially had the river to ourselves. Fishing was alittle slower with more smaller, 14 to 16 inch, fish than last year probably because of the murky water. Everybody did get into some good ones though. We did get some good dry fly action the last two days. That was a kick. I pointed out what I thought was a sweet young thing to Warren but he thought she was too chubby and passed on her, but I guess all those young things look good to a man my age. She even caught more fish than Warren. I did my best to hook him up by volunteering Warren to be a netting gilly for her when she landed her fish, but to no avail. Willi

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It was a great trip. A great Winter fishing fix. Lots of greasy food, liquor, short restless nights etc. that make a man my age regret his age the next morning. Lots of assorted grumblings about various bodily ailments throughout the group. Aging, ain’t it wonderful!

  Your age?  I thought Warren was older than you.  He certainly looked it in the mornings:)  I was a bit less "creaky" than normal.  The Ketoprofen 200 mg seemed to do the trick for my Osteoarthritis affected toes.  And, I felt great the next morning due to doctor mandated cutback in beer consumption.  Heck, I even brought beer back.  Hey, speaking of beer, I’m always getting crap about my "ol Mil but noticed that, after hiking up the hill, several of you guys drank it! Now that I’m back home, it’s back to water and diet Pepsi.  Bummer. Snoop — —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yeah HF, I remember you telling me that a week or two ago… I figure either you’re a Gen-U-Wine masochist or you REALLY like to drive. Wait a minute, you’re hosting the dangdest convention of nitwits and yahoos since the 1979 Star Trek convention… OK, so you’re a masochist. But for me: 1. I HATE to drive. For 14 years I averaged 50-70k per year on the job. Don’t wanna do long drives unless I have to. I even make my wife drive when we go somewhere together in town. 2. I LIKE to fly. Hey, I’m fishing around for some sky time here! 3. When YOU drove it, there was probably no posted speed limit, and your biggest traffic concern was getting the horses out of the way of your ‘32 Coupe, since you were going close to 100! Ah, the joys of a misspent youth… Mike

It was a 35 Ford Coupe.  And it wasn’t far from 100, but on the high side! Actually, it got a lot easier since Kentucky finished the Interstate. Our oldest daughter was a Professor at the University of Georgia at Athens for a while, and we made the trip several times recently.   I just can’t talk my wife into making those trips in the airplane. She keeps insisting that it would be fine, but she has to be BACK on time!   HF

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I just can’t talk my wife into making those trips in the airplane. She keeps insisting that it would be fine, but she has to be BACK on time!

I suppose suggesting you borrow, rent or buy a Mooney is out of the question! Warren

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I just can’t talk my wife into making those trips in the airplane. She keeps insisting that it would be fine, but she has to be BACK on time! I suppose suggesting you borrow, rent or buy a Mooney is out of the question! Warren

It doesn’t have anything to do with the particular airplane.  She can drive, but I am the only pilot!  Need I say more … HF

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Mike, Mike, Mike, You’ll have to do better than that. 1. I HATE to drive. For 14 years I averaged 50-70k per year on the job. Don’t wanna do long drives unless I have to. I even make my wife drive when we go somewhere together in town.

So, bring her along.  And let her drive.  Tell her it shows her just how much you trust her.  My family came last year and plans to come this year. Go to sleep as soon as you hit interstate and when you wake up, you’ll be there.  "0" minutes travel time. 2. I LIKE to fly. Hey, I’m fishing around for some sky time here!

When you get there, you’ll fly.  Guaranteed. 3. When YOU drove it, there was probably no posted speed limit, and your biggest traffic concern was getting the horses out of the way of your ‘32 Coupe, since you were going close to 100! Ah, the joys of a misspent youth…

Possibly.  But the speed limit now is at least 70 and most likely 75 so there’s not that much difference.  Besides, you’ll be asleep and the wife’s driving so what do you care?  :-) Next incredibly lame argument? John Stricker — why I had to put it in.  If one of you real humans wants to contact me: "I didn’t spend all these years getting to the top of the food chain just to become a vegetarian"

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Yeah HF, I remember you telling me that a week or two ago… I figure either you’re a Gen-U-Wine masochist or you REALLY like to drive. Wait a minute, you’re hosting the dangdest convention of nitwits and yahoos since the 1979 Star Trek convention… OK, so you’re a masochist. But for me: 1. I HATE to drive. For 14 years I averaged 50-70k per year on the job. Don’t wanna do long drives unless I have to. I even make my wife drive when we go somewhere together in town. 2. I LIKE to fly. Hey, I’m fishing around for some sky time here! 3. When YOU drove it, there was probably no posted speed limit, and your biggest traffic concern was getting the horses out of the way of your ‘32 Coupe, since you were going close to 100! Ah, the joys of a misspent youth… Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Since it’s too far to drive for a 3 day weekend, and since I’m too poor to own/rent/fly myself (not to mention I’m only a wannabe pilot so far)(oh-oh, did I mention the unmentionable?), my choices for P’ville ‘99 are to hitchhike, fly the "big iron" (I’m checking prices this weekend), or my preferred means of travel would be to catch a ride and share expenses with someone who’ll be passing through the Atlanta area on their way there… Soooo…… Too far to drive for a three day weekend!  I used to commute to Atlanta from Pinckneyville.   HF

Mike Patterson   –   Deacon Blues AMA #598863  EAA #523920  NRA #BVS2395T  ICQ #7161589 < http://www.mindspring.com/~mikepatterson "Sharing the things I know and love with those of my kind…" Humans please ignore the following- More SPAM bait: http://barnstormers.dyn.ml.org/email.html

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Since it’s too far to drive for a 3 day weekend, and since I’m too poor to own/rent/fly myself (not to mention I’m only a wannabe pilot so far)(oh-oh, did I mention the unmentionable?), my choices for P’ville ‘99 are to hitchhike, fly the "big iron" (I’m checking prices this weekend), or my preferred means of travel would be to catch a ride and share expenses with someone who’ll be passing through the Atlanta area on their way there… Soooo……

Too far to drive for a three day weekend!  I used to commute to Atlanta from Pinckneyville.   HF

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Since it’s too far to drive for a 3 day weekend, and since I’m too poor to own/rent/fly myself (not to mention I’m only a wannabe pilot so far)(oh-oh, did I mention the unmentionable?), my choices for P’ville ‘99 are to hitchhike, fly the "big iron" (I’m checking prices this weekend), or my preferred means of travel would be to catch a ride and share expenses with someone who’ll be passing through the Atlanta area on their way there… Soooo…… Is anyone in this forum planning to make the pilgrimage, have need of a seat polisher, beer holder and extra wallet, AND willing to stop and pick up a hitchhiker somewhere around Atlanta? Mike "I make long run-on sentences so I can save all the periods to use at the end…" Patterson PS maybe you better check out my web page first, especially if you’ns be a Dimocrat. OTOH, that could make it MORE fun, eh? Mike Patterson   –   Deacon Blues AMA #598863  EAA #523920  NRA #BVS2395T  ICQ #7161589 < http://www.mindspring.com/~mikepatterson "Sharing the things I know and love with those of my kind…" Humans please ignore the following- More SPAM bait: http://barnstormers.dyn.ml.org/email.html

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Cut the crap Mike… You Southern boys are always "poor mouthing" your lot in life. Checking your website, your about to sell a house? $116, 000 should get you a round trip ticket to anyplace of your choosing, unless you drop by the casinos here in Kansas City ! Not owning a plane, certainly provides you with even more disposable income than us owner types. Checking with Expedia/Flight Wizard, a commercial round trip flight can be had for as little as $236.00 RIGHT NOW. See…  http://expedia.msn.com/daily/home/default.hts So, book it and rest easy. If your good with a wrench, book one way and maybe HF will keep you busy attending to the needs of the "Red Lady". He has plenty of "cot space’ for the homeless. Just bring your own cot. High Flyer IS touchy about snoozing on his. Don’t ask how I know.  <g Bob – already signed up for P’ville 99 – U. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Since it’s too far to drive for a 3 day weekend, and since I’m too poor to own/rent/fly myself (not to mention I’m only a wannabe pilot so far)(oh-oh, did I mention the unmentionable?), my choices for P’ville ‘99 are to hitchhike, fly the "big iron" (I’m checking prices this weekend), or my preferred means of travel would be to catch a ride and share expenses with someone who’ll be passing through the Atlanta area on their way there… Mike Patterson  

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Question:

    Don’t listen to Moe. Take your wife/girlfriend with you and try all the rods you can over a period of 3 wks and keep asking "wada you think about this one". At the end of this time she will (1)suggest you buy it if you like it. (2) Buy the one you seemed to like the most for you. or (3) Inform you she doesn’t give a damn, just buy one and leave her alone.

Funny. That’s the tactic my wife uses on me for shoes. — something bogus to avoid spam)

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You know what Thomas’ last name is don’t you?…..Winston!!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –         close your eyes and begin saying "thomas & thomas" over and over and over again.  the only new rod you’ll ever need.         a. wayne harrison, totally subjective t&t freak.

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So why do you like them so much? Mark Faulkner A upgrade in rod would do the most good probally but have you checked out the loop reels. They are amazing!  Check out there site at http://www.looptackle.se/

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 Or I’ll just go down, buy it park it in the drive and tell her it followed me home, can I keep it, huh can I ?                                                           John Popp                                                         in Sanford Fl.

John – tried that once – doesn’t work. Mark Faulkner

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Gents (and ladies ..:-) ) I have been fly fishing for the past two years and now I feel it is time to upgrade my equipment. Don’t ask me why, I just feel I can benefit from  "better" equipment. I currently own a  Pfleuger starter set which my wife bought me a couple of Christmas’ ago. I guess my big question is, where would me money be better spent, a new rod or reel. My gut tells me the rod is the place to build a solid foundation around and look at a new reel down the rod. I fish for trout in the streams and rivers of Washington State and occasionally back home in Calgary Alberta., but again for trout. Stew

Hi Stew, The rod upgrade will make the most difference in your fishing.  I’d suggest looking at rods in the $250 price range such as the Orvis Silver Label.  I especially like the Silver Label TL’s, but rod choice is very personal.  You need to cast as many rods in this price range as you can get your hands on to see what suits you best (half the fun of buying a new rod). Most major manufacturers have rods in this price range and that is where you get the most performance for the money.  The top of the line rods usually offer additional performance but at a much greater price.   If you were already at the mid-price level, I’d probably be recommending the reel upgrade instead.  The rod upgrade pays off everytime you cast it.  The reel upgrade pays off when you hook a fish that you have to (get to) play off the reel.                        Hope this helps,                             Dan Dan Gracia Orvis

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Another suggestion is to look at a previously owned rod.  This way you could take a big jump.  I agree with upgrading the rod first, and I too like Orvis Silver Labels.  I own one along with several other rods.   Consider talking with

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I am waiting for my rod to be repaired (4th time) and fishing with my backup.  Your reel seldom breaks, so if you can only get one, get another rod so you can have a spare.  -Better yet, get another combo.

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I have only broken one rod in fifty years of flyfishing.  I have seven rods, four fiberglass two graphite and one bamboo.  I made most of them from blanks because I wanted to see the difference in various manufacturers.  You should have a backup rod in case something happens to one.  A friend of mine took two rods on a horse pack trip in plastic cases.  The packer packed them together on the side of the pack and the horse broke them both, so watch your rods closely or you may not get to fish when you get there. — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-Mail Selling my Fly Fishing Books Go to: http://users.ccnet.com/~emh – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am waiting for my rod to be repaired (4th time) and fishing with my backup.  Your reel seldom breaks, so if you can only get one, get another rod so you can have a spare.  -Better yet, get another combo.

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Okay y’all are giving me some good ideas here now ….so what is there to making a rod from a blank? Does it really ssave like when I make my own golf clubs? Where does a person buy blanks and the associated stuff from? Stew – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have only broken one rod in fifty years of flyfishing.  I have seven rods, four fiberglass two graphite and one bamboo.  I made most of them from blanks because I wanted to see the difference in various manufacturers.  You should have a backup rod in case something happens to one.  A friend of mine took two rods on a horse pack trip in plastic cases.  The packer packed them together on the side of the pack and the horse broke them both, so watch your rods closely or you may not get to fish when you get there. — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-Mail Selling my Fly Fishing Books Go to: http://users.ccnet.com/~emh I am waiting for my rod to be repaired (4th time) and fishing with my backup.  Your reel seldom breaks, so if you can only get one, get another rod so you can have a spare.  -Better yet, get another combo.

– #  D. Stew McLeod … working at The Boeing Company .. in Renton, WA. #"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; # an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." #    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Gents (and ladies ..:-) ) I have been fly fishing for the past two years and now I feel it is time to upgrade my equipment. Don’t ask me why, I just feel I can benefit from  "better" equipment. I currently own a  Pfleuger starter set which my wife bought me a couple of Christmas’ ago. I guess my big question is, where would me money be better spent, a new rod or reel. My gut tells me the rod is the place to build a solid foundation around and look at a new reel down the rod. I fish for trout in the streams and rivers of Washington State and occasionally back home in Calgary Alberta., but again for trout. Stew — #  D. Stew McLeod … working at The Boeing Company .. in Renton, WA. #"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; # an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." #    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

Hi Stew, There are lots of great fly rods around $200. Most anglers are fishing 9′ #5 line rods for trout. Sage DS, Scott Alpha & Voyager, Loomis GL2 & 3, T&T Emerger are all great values.  These are the entry level rods from the top fly rod manufacturers. Your reel should be OK till it fails to work for you. Good fly lines are $30 to $50, so there is no excuse for not having the best. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

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 Or I’ll just go down, buy it park it in the drive and tell her it followed me home, can I keep it, huh can I ?                                                           John Popp                                                         in Sanford Fl. John – tried that once – doesn’t work. Mark Faulkner

Mark Let her choose the colour and you can get anything you want, (budgets and bank cooperation assuming.) Peter

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I don’t know about that Peter, he would look a little silly in a pink 4-wheel vehicle. — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-Mail Selling my Fly Fishing Books Go to: http://users.ccnet.com/~emh – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Or I’ll just go down, buy it park it in the drive and tell her it followed me home, can I keep it, huh can I ?                                                           John Popp                                                         in Sanford Fl. John – tried that once – doesn’t work. Mark Faulkner Mark Let her choose the colour and you can get anything you want, (budgets and bank cooperation assuming.) Peter

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Gents (and ladies ..:-) ) I have been fly fishing for the past two years and now I feel it is time to upgrade my equipment. Don’t ask me why, I just feel I can benefit from  "better" equipment. I currently own a  Pfleuger starter set which my wife bought me a couple of Christmas’ ago. I guess my big question is, where would me money be better spent, a new rod or reel. My gut tells me the rod is the place to build a solid foundation around and look at a new reel down the rod. I fish for trout in the streams and rivers of Washington State and occasionally back home in Calgary Alberta., but again for trout. Stew

 New reel!…at least with a light reel you’ll NOW be able to feel just what your rod is doing….how it’s action is…  Until you get a grip on the casting qualities of this rod (which the heavy Pfleuger is Masking!), you won’t know what you really will desire in an expensive rod….especially for a trout rod…..Steelhead, Stripers, Salmon…now the Reel plays a major part of the game…but still….the lighter is usually the better. $.02, steve d.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Gents (and ladies ..:-) ) I have been fly fishing for the past two years and now I feel it is time to upgrade my equipment. Don’t ask me why, I just feel I can benefit from  "better" equipment. I currently own a  Pfleuger starter set which my wife bought me a couple of Christmas’ ago. I guess my big question is, where would me money be better spent, a new rod or reel. My gut tells me the rod is the place to build a solid foundation around and look at a new reel down the rod. I fish for trout in the streams and rivers of Washington State and occasionally back home in Calgary Alberta., but again for trout. Stew — #  D. Stew McLeod … working at The Boeing Company .. in Renton, WA. #"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; # an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." #    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

    Don’t listen to Moe. Take your wife/girlfriend with you and try all the rods you can over a period of 3 wks and keep asking "wada you think about this one". At the end of this time she will (1)suggest you buy it if you like it. (2) Buy the one you seemed to like the most for you. or (3) Inform you she doesn’t give a damn, just buy one and leave her alone.                                                            John Popp                                                         in Sanford Fl.

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haha i have 2 loops, i love them!     — Nicholas J. Slodki

:A upgrade in rod would do the most good probally but have you checked ut the loop reels. They are amazing!  Check out there site at :http://www.looptackle.se/

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [deleted] I guess my big question is, where would me money be better spent, a new rod or reel. [deleted] I’d spend the money on a few "kitchen passes" myself (i.e. roses for the little lady, dinner perhaps). New rod won’t do you any good while your cleaning out the refrigerator. Your pal, — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "Guilt replaced the creel…"

   Come now Tim, what wife wouldn’t want her hubby to replace his rod with one that has a bit more action ? Also your idea, if accepted on a large scale could cause serious world wide consequences: for instance I’m looking at getting rid of an old dodge slant 6 van (given up on it breaking down and junking it) and replaceing it with a dodge ram 1500 short bed quad cab v8 with tow package and all the goodys, that being the case candy stocks should take a huge rise and at least a couple hundred acres of flower fields will be denuded. Now that new vehicles are out and every one wants a new one, imagine the devistation. Nope I’ll just say something nice and while shes in shock STRIKE. (been married a long time). Or I’ll just go down, buy it park it in the drive and tell her it followed me home, can I keep it, huh can I ?                                                           John Popp                                                         in Sanford Fl.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Gents (and ladies ..:-) ) I have been fly fishing for the past two years and now I feel it is time to upgrade my equipment. Don’t ask me why, I just feel I can benefit from  "better" equipment. I currently own a  Pfleuger starter set which my wife bought me a couple of Christmas’ ago. I guess my big question is, where would me money be better spent, a new rod or reel. My gut tells me the rod is the place to build a solid foundation around and look at a new reel down the rod. I fish for trout in the streams and rivers of Washington State and occasionally back home in Calgary Alberta., but again for trout. Stew — #  D. Stew McLeod … working at The Boeing Company .. in Renton, WA. #"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; # an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." #    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

        close your eyes and begin saying "thomas & thomas" over and over and over again.  the only new rod you’ll ever need.         a. wayne harrison, totally subjective t&t freak. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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D. Stewart McLeod wrote… I have been fly fishing for the past two years and now I feel it is time to upgrade my equipment.

I don’t have any recommendations, but did want to say that as soon as I saw the "What To Upgrade" subject line, I couldn’t help but think of PC hardware and software upgrades. "When was the last release of Pfleuger, Pfleuger 71 or 94? I do know that Pfleuger 71 had to be upgraded with a Service Pack (a machined aluminum foot, sold separately, not available in the OEM releases of Pfleuger) so it could work with a Sage-96, or for that matter, any earlier release of Sage or Orvis. Speaking of Sage-96, why is it so much more expensive than say Sage-90?  At least it doesn’t take up more rod-tube space." Someone with far greater writing talents than me could have fun with this.  "If Microsoft Sold Fishing Gear" Thomas Gilg

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I’d also suggest upgrading a rod before a reel.  the manfacturere already mentioned are all good.  You might also look at the Thomas & Thomas emerger series.  These rods are priced approximately the same as the Discovery series from Sage and the entry level Loomis’. Tim also makes a good point.  "Kitchen passes" are always good to have. Have fun selecting a rod. Chris Brown – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Gents (and ladies ..:-) ) I have been fly fishing for the past two years and now I feel it is time to upgrade my equipment. Don’t ask me why, I just feel I can benefit from  "better" equipment. I currently own a  Pfleuger starter set which my wife bought me a couple of Christmas’ ago. I guess my big question is, where would me money be better spent, a new rod or reel. My gut tells me the rod is the place to build a solid foundation around and look at a new reel down the rod. I fish for trout in the streams and rivers of Washington State and occasionally back home in Calgary Alberta., but again for trout. Stew — #  D. Stew McLeod … working at The Boeing Company .. in Renton, WA. #"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; # an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." #    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

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A upgrade in rod would do the most good probally but have you checked out the loop reels. They are amazing!  Check out there site at http://www.looptackle.se/

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This is a no-brainer in my book, Stew – go for the rod, and have fun casting a bunch of different rods in making the selection. Mark Faulkner – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Gents (and ladies ..:-) ) I have been fly fishing for the past two years and now I feel it is time to upgrade my equipment. Don’t ask me why, I just feel I can benefit from  "better" equipment. I currently own a  Pfleuger starter set which my wife bought me a couple of Christmas’ ago. I guess my big question is, where would me money be better spent, a new rod or reel. My gut tells me the rod is the place to build a solid foundation around and look at a new reel down the rod. I fish for trout in the streams and rivers of Washington State and occasionally back home in Calgary Alberta., but again for trout. Stew — #  D. Stew McLeod … working at The Boeing Company .. in Renton, WA. #"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; # an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." #    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

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Gents (and ladies ..:-) ) I have been fly fishing for the past two years and now I feel it is time to upgrade my equipment. Don’t ask me why, I just feel I can benefit from  "better" equipment. I currently own a  Pfleuger starter set which my wife bought me a couple of Christmas’ ago. I guess my big question is, where would me money be better spent, a new rod or reel. My gut tells me the rod is the place to build a solid foundation around and look at a new reel down the rod. I fish for trout in the streams and rivers of Washington State and occasionally back home in Calgary Alberta., but again for trout. Stew — #  D. Stew McLeod … working at The Boeing Company .. in Renton, WA. #"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; # an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." #    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

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Steweart writes:

<<Gents (and ladies ..:-) ) I have been fly fishing for the past two years and now I feel it is time to upgrade my equipment. Don’t ask me why, I just feel I can benefit from  "better" equipment. I currently own a  Pfleuger starter set which my wife bought me a couple of Christmas’ ago. I guess my big question is, where would me money be better spent, a new rod or reel. My gut tells me the rod is the place to build a solid foundation around and look at a new reel down the rod. I fish for trout in the streams and rivers of Washington State and occasionally back home in Calgary Alberta., but again for trout. Stew Stew, I would focus the money on the rod.  Unless you are into a lot of big trout, the reel simply holds your line for you.   While there is no denying a silky smooth reel is something to drool over, it isn’t necessary for most of us unless you are after steelhead, salmon, bonefish, BIG trout etc. Check out the St. Croix rods or the Reddington line for some nice upgrades.   You may also want to check out some of the rod/reel combo’s from Sage, Orvis and Loomis.  I know you can get a Sage Discovery with a reel, line and metal tube for around $265 or so.  I bought one years ago and still use it a lot. Mike

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[deleted] I guess my big question is, where would me money be better spent, a new rod or reel.

[deleted] I’d spend the money on a few "kitchen passes" myself (i.e. roses for the little lady, dinner perhaps). New rod won’t do you any good while your cleaning out the refrigerator. Your pal, — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "Guilt replaced the creel…"

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I’d say replace the rod.  Check out Orvis, Diamondback, Loomis or St. Croix. They make excellent rods ranging from $95-$500. — Nicholas J. Slodki

:Gents (and ladies ..:-) ) : :I have been fly fishing for the past two years and now I feel it is time :to upgrade my equipment. Don’t ask me why, I just feel I can benefit :from  "better" equipment. I currently own a  Pfleuger starter set which :my wife bought me a couple of Christmas’ ago. : :I guess my big question is, where would me money be better spent, a new :rod or reel. My gut tells me the rod is the place to build a solid :foundation around and look at a new reel down the rod. I fish for trout :in the streams and rivers of Washington State and occasionally back home :in Calgary Alberta., but again for trout. : :Stew : : :– :#  D. Stew McLeod … working at The Boeing Company .. in Renton, WA. :#"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; :# an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." :#    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965) : : :

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Question:

Well, I spent about 4 years there and I found a plain small bright neon green plastic worm drove the small mouths wild. — Eric From the Grand Canyon State. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am going to Star Lake in the Adirondacks later this June.  Also will visit nearby Cranberry Lake.  Both are in the northeast corner of the Adirondacks.  I am told the most common catches are smallmouth bass and trout, with occasional rock bass as consolation. Any advice for these lakes?  How about nearly streams?  We will be both fly fishing and spinning.  What kinds of flies, lures, or live baits? Techniques? Many thanks! Michael

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I am going to Star Lake in the Adirondacks later this June.  Also will visit nearby Cranberry Lake.  Both are in the northeast corner of the Adirondacks.  I am told the most common catches are smallmouth bass and trout, with occasional rock bass as consolation. Any advice for these lakes?  How about nearly streams?  We will be both fly fishing and spinning.  What kinds of flies, lures, or live baits? Techniques? Many thanks! Michael

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Most of my fishing is done in the Adirondacks. I have a web site with lots of advice regarding lure selection. Check it out. Email me if you have any questions (remove the nospam in the address) Matthew Carter "Fishing with Matt" http://www.albany.net/~buzzbait/fishing/index.htm

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Looking for a  good campsite on a lake or river for fly fishing for trout in Denali,AK.  Will backpack a short distance to campsite.  Are there any cabins on lakes or rivers in or close by Denali that offer good fly fishing?  Thanks for your help!

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Looking for a  good campsite on a lake or river for fly fishing for trout in Denali,AK.  Will backpack a short distance to campsite.  Are there any cabins on lakes or rivers in or close by Denali that offer good fly fishing?  Thanks for your help!

   I don’t guide in that area but when I was there several years ago I was told that some of the waters hold grayling but there are few if any trout in the park.

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Joel, you are a man after my own heart.  About the only difference is I fish dry flies and I do have a #1 Hoffman grizzly saddle which ties magnificent dry flies, and each hackle will tie 4 to 7 flies.   Ernie Harrison I’ve learned to become an ecconomical tyer over the years. I have a real

difficult time spending $60 plus on a chicken skin, so when I fish dries it usually comparaduns,

sparkle duns, LaFontaine – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Emergers, terrestrials, etc. They all work and float great and there’s no expensive hackle involved. jka

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 Discounting my time, I figure a fly costs me $0.05-0.10 each to make.

Where do you buy your hooks? I pay over 10 cents each buying them in 100 packs? Willi

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve learned to become an ecconomical tyer over the years. I have a real difficult time spending $60 plus on a chicken skin, so when I fish dries it usually comparaduns, sparkle duns, LaFontaine Emergers, terrestrials, etc. They all work and float great and there’s no expensive hackle involved. <Snip If you got to have all the bells and whistles and if you refuse to improvise a little, sure, you’ll spend a fortune on this hobby. But at this point in the game I spend far less a year on materials than I would on "quality" flies at $1.75 or more each. jka  Have you tried the Tom Thumb? It is THE dry fly in British Columbia. Can be fished as a caddis or mayfly imitation and uses three materials: hook, working thread, and deer hair. It is described in The Gilly. — Vic Brockett Vic’s Fly-By-Night http://www.navicom.com/~vic I’ve learned to become an ecconomical tyer over the years. I have a real difficult time spending $60 plus on a chicken skin, so when I fish dries it usually comparaduns, sparkle duns, LaFontaine Emergers, terrestrials, etc. They all work and float great and there’s no expensive hackle involved. <Snip If you got to have all the bells and whistles and if you refuse to improvise a little, sure, you’ll spend a fortune on this hobby. But at this point in the game I spend far less a year on materials than I would on "quality" flies at $1.75 or more each. jka

 Have you tried the Tom Thumb? It is THE dry fly in British Columbia. Can be fished as a caddis or mayfly imitation and uses three materials: hook, working thread, and deer hair. It is described in The Gilly. — Vic Brockett Vic’s Fly-By-Night http://www.navicom.com/~vic

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<Bulk of excellent reply snipped  Then there are the "secret" patterns, a few of which are not available anywhere but on my vice and that of a couple close friends. Discounting my time, I figure a fly costs me $0.05-0.10 each to make. The time is no big deal, I usually tie on those slow Sundays when I’m actively not watching some sports megaevent on TV, or during the long cold winters here in Maine. tight lines!

Dave I think you hit it right on the head. Tying gives you the ability to produce exactly what you need to catch fish on a consistant basis on your local streams/rivers.  Plus it’s fun, plus, what do you do in Wisconsin when it’s -30 with wind chill in Wisconsin in February???? Tight lines, Steve Hering

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I notice that the responses to this original post are now starting to take on the notion of defending fly tying for its own sake.  A cause which I believe I showed support for in the original post.  Please understand that I love tying flies and that I think it worth every penny I’ve ever spent (and will continue to spend) in the future.  Also, I’m not surprised that some of you out there who fish more often actually do manage to get a ‘volume discount’ on your flies by tying them yourselves. My original intent was meant to coax a wry smile from fellow tiers who are still ‘over capitalized’ with regard to their supply of fly tying materials….and probably will remain so for some time.  My hats off to all of you who have managed to tie economically.  (Actually, I don’t envy you so much for your money saving acumen as I do for the fact that you are probably saving because you go fishing a lot more than I do!)–                                                            -dnc- – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here’s one in the "jokes-on-me" category. How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money? (Don’t get me wrong.  I get a lot of fun out of tying, and it’s hard to think of anything better than site casting a dry you tied to a fish and having him get fooled.  But I still have to laugh at myself about my initial misconception about tying.)                                                                -dnc-

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D., You obviously haven’t bought your first #1 neck yet.  It’ll more than double your initial $60 outlay.  (And getting that vise for free is cheating!).  If you really get into tying, and you are interested in tying many different patterns, let me know how it all works out, a couple years from now (after your s.o. has left you for a more frugal s.o.).  The $10000 may be an exaggeration (or maybe not, maybe the guy bought some Dodo feathers???), but I have spent at least $500 so far, and I’m not nearly as well set up as some of the really good tyers I know. If you are economically able to tie a variety of flies, and you aren’t lucky enough to have your buddies give you all the necessary materials, I’d be more than happy to suffer the slings and arrows of a ‘told-you-so’ from you (just as long as it’s accompanied by some useful hints on how I might likewise economize)–                                                            -dnc- – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – < 10k in equipment?  Not saving money tying flies?  Where you guys shopping?   Just started tying.  ….  [snip] have a total investment of 60 bucks.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money? …….But I still have to laugh at myself about my initial misconception about tying.)                                  -dnc- I completely disagree with you.  I figure it costs me less than 50 cents per fly, and I have a less than $10,000 in equipment and materials.   Paul < 10k in equipment?  Not saving money tying flies?  Where you guys shopping? Just started tying.  Vise was free, used, but holds a hook no problems. Bobbin, couple types of scissors, thread, tinsel, wire, dubbing, herl, shaved a few bunnies at a friends ranch, mask, pheasant tail, etc….  I have a total investment of 60 bucks.  I have tied about 40 flies so far. Where I live  40 flies = 40 bucks, at least.  How could you not save money, even eventually as Paul (10k ??? are you serious?  Nah, can’t be.) pointed out.  I spend about 15 bucks avg on flies each trip, at least. Figure30-40 trips a year of varying degrees and I save lots of money every year. Ok, I’m ready to justify that Renzetti to my s.o. D. Howell

Denial!!! Plus, "I’m ready to justify that Renzetti to my s.o."… That’s a sure sign that there’s another one hooked pretty good…. You should save your note and review it and your inventory of tying stuff in five years…. Greg

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– dave’s homepage madness http://www.ime.net/~dbottom  Discounting my time, I figure a fly costs me $0.05-0.10 each to make. Where do you buy your hooks? I pay over 10 cents each buying them in 100 packs? Willi

I got hooks coming out my ears for most styles…but the last box of hooks I bought, 94840’s were about $5.50 so maybe the estimate was slightly low..given that those hooks cost 5.5 cents each, 10 cents is still pretty close on the cost dave — dave’s homepage madness http://www.ime.net/~dbottom

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve learned to become an ecconomical tyer over the years. I have a real difficult time spending $60 plus on a chicken skin, so when I fish dries it usually comparaduns, sparkle duns, LaFontaine Emergers, terrestrials, etc. They all work and float great and there’s no expensive hackle involved. <Snip If you got to have all the bells and whistles and if you refuse to improvise a little, sure, you’ll spend a fortune on this hobby. But at this point in the game I spend far less a year on materials than I would on "quality" flies at $1.75 or more each. jka

 Have you tried the Tom Thumb? It is THE dry fly in British Columbia. Can be fished as a caddis or mayfly imitation and uses three materials: hook, working thread, and deer hair. It is described in The Gilly. — Vic Brockett Vic’s Fly-By-Night http://www.navicom.com/~vic

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How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money?

Initially, I thought that I would save some money.  And in fact, I do (or I will after I tie many more flies).  My problem is that I enjoy tying new and different flies, therefore, I am always adding new materials that keeps the cost per fly high.           I have found that tying my own flies adds a dimension to my fishing.  Every time I tie one, I end up imagining where and what I will catch with it.  Most of all, I enjoy the satisfaction of tying a good fly.  The response from others to what I do has been phenomenal. I love to see the look on people’s faces when I show them a good fly and tell them that I have tied it.  It makes for some great conversation.   All in all it is unbeatable M. Richardson

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Good point.  Actually, given a moderate inflation rate, you may actually break even a few years earlier.  Me too.  Gosh.  I guess I don’t feel so bad now! —                                                            -dnc- Here’s one in the "jokes-on-me" category. How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money?

Paul Wilson responded – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I completely disagree with you.  I figure it costs me less than 50 cents per fly, and I have a less than $10,000 in equipment and materials. What the heck, after the age of 150, I’ll be saving money buddy!

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Its not about saving money!!  If that were the case we wouldn’t be in this sport.  It’s about fooling the bass (trout) into believing that what you tied is for real.  It’s about relaxing and expounding you horizons – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here’s one in the "jokes-on-me" category. How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money? (Don’t get me wrong.  I get a lot of fun out of tying, and it’s hard to think of anything better than site casting a dry you tied to a fish and having him get fooled.  But I still have to laugh at myself about my initial misconception about tying.)                                                                -dnc-

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I’ve learned to become an ecconomical tyer over the years. I have a real difficult time spending $60 plus on a chicken skin, so when I fish dries it usually comparaduns, sparkle duns, LaFontaine Emergers, terrestrials, etc. They all work and float great and there’s no expensive hackle involved. Actually, I fish nymphs about 70% or better of the time. You can tie a lot of Pheasant Tails and Hare’s Ears for next to nothing. I figure each fly probably cost me 10-20 cents. The main kicker is that once you a become proficient tyer, you can tye a heck of a lot better fly than you buy I also refuse to spend the extra money for Tiemco hooks. Mustad’s quality and the styles offered have improved over recent years and they’re a heck of a lot more reasonably priced. If you got to have all the bells and whistles and if you refuse to improvise a little, sure, you’ll spend a fortune on this hobby. But at this point in the game I spend far less a year on materials than I would on "quality" flies at $1.75 or more each. jka

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Sandman, When I got into fly fishing it wasn’t expensive.  My entire outfit cost less than $100, and that included fly tying equipment.  I still have much of it today and still use it.  Of course the addiction today is the same as it was then. Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Its not about saving money!!  If that were the case we wouldn’t be in this sport.  It’s about fooling the bass (trout) into believing that what you tied is for real.  It’s about relaxing and expounding you horizons

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How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money? …….But I still have to laugh at myself about my initial misconception about tying.)                                  -dnc-

Well I did. over the past 15 years I’ve paid out probably between $600-800 for tools and materials, and at an average cost of $1.50 a fly I’ve probably saved alot. I now have most materials in abundance, perhaps more than I’ll use for the rest of my life. About all I purchase now are hooks, head cement, and occasional spool of thread and hackle every few years, though I do lust after a really good rotating vice, maybe this year…. I go through 50-100 flies a year, and usually give a bunch away to some budding angler, which makes their day. I Also feel that the quality of my flies is much higher than commercial flies, even those bought at premium shops like LL Beans. I have also modified many patterns to fit the local hatches better, and as a result I believe that I catch more and bigger fish. Tying gives you the option to experiment with materials like white skunk, which is very straight and translucent when wet, or to tie up maribou versions of popular streamers like a grey ghost that work much better in moving waters. Then there are the "secret" patterns, a few of which are not available anywhere but on my vice and that of a couple close friends. Discounting my time, I figure a fly costs me $0.05-0.10 each to make. The time is no big deal, I usually tie on those slow Sundays when I’m actively not watching some sports megaevent on TV, or during the long cold winters here in Maine. tight lines!

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In tying, unlike fishing, if you do everything just right, you will definitely be rewarded – with a nice fly! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money? D. Howell

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money? …….But I still have to laugh at myself about my initial misconception about tying.)                                  -dnc- I completely disagree with you.  I figure it costs me less than 50 cents per fly, and I have a less than $10,000 in equipment and materials.   Paul < 10k in equipment?  Not saving money tying flies?  Where you guys shopping?   Just started tying.  Vise was free, used, but holds a hook no problems. Bobbin, couple types of scissors, thread, tinsel, wire, dubbing, herl, shaved a few bunnies at a friends ranch, mask, pheasant tail, etc….  I have a total investment of 60 bucks.  I have tied about 40 flies so far. Where I live  40 flies = 40 bucks, at least.  How could you not save money, even eventually as Paul (10k ??? are you serious?  Nah, can’t be.) pointed out.  I spend about 15 bucks avg on flies each trip, at least. Figure30-40 trips a year of varying degrees and I save lots of money every year. Ok, I’m ready to justify that Renzetti to my s.o. D. Howell

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Here’s one in the "jokes-on-me" category. How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money?

I did save a lot of money.  The first year I lost so many flies in the trees and bushes that I found they had started their own hatch when I went back the next year.

You are the man, Ernie!  Do you give classes?

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How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money? …….But I still have to laugh at myself about my initial misconception about tying.)                                  -dnc- I completely disagree with you.  I figure it costs me less than 50 cents per fly, and I have a less than $10,000 in equipment and materials.   Paul

< 10k in equipment?  Not saving money tying flies?  Where you guys shopping?   Just started tying.  Vise was free, used, but holds a hook no problems. Bobbin, couple types of scissors, thread, tinsel, wire, dubbing, herl, shaved a few bunnies at a friends ranch, mask, pheasant tail, etc….  I have a total investment of 60 bucks.  I have tied about 40 flies so far. Where I live  40 flies = 40 bucks, at least.  How could you not save money, even eventually as Paul (10k ??? are you serious?  Nah, can’t be.) pointed out.  I spend about 15 bucks avg on flies each trip, at least. Figure30-40 trips a year of varying degrees and I save lots of money every year. Ok, I’m ready to justify that Renzetti to my s.o. D. Howell

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Here’s one in the "jokes-on-me" category. How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money?

I did save a lot of money.  The first year I lost so many flies in the trees and bushes that I found they had started their own hatch when I went back the next year. Ernie Harrison

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Here’s one in the "jokes-on-me" category. How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money? (Don’t get me wrong.  I get a lot of fun out of tying, and it’s hard to think of anything better than site casting a dry you tied to a fish and having him get fooled.  But I still have to laugh at myself about my initial misconception about tying.)                                                                -dnc-

I completely disagree with you.  I figure it costs me less than 50 cents per fly, and I have a less than $10,000 in equipment and materials. What the heck, after the age of 150, I’ll be saving money buddy! Paul

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Here’s one in the "jokes-on-me" category. How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money? (Don’t get me wrong.  I get a lot of fun out of tying, and it’s hard to think of anything better than site casting a dry you tied to a fish and having him get fooled.  But I still have to laugh at myself about my initial misconception about tying.)                                                                -dnc-

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -On Wed, 16 Apr 1997 13:45:46 -0600, c…@inav.net (Ken Wessels) wrote: >In article <5inhga…@lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk>, pa…@cus.cam.ac.uk (Aldabra >Stoddart) wrote: >> In article <01bc4635$caf9a2a0$9b250e26@wierwolf>, >> mail.earthlink.net <wierw…@earthlink.net> wrote: >> >I know this may sound terible but it is not unusual.  I love my wife and >> >kids, but my wife has lost her need (bored) for sex.  Are there any married >> >women out there in a simular situation? >> Before you get involved in affairs, read alt.support.divorce for a few >> weeks (but skip the child-support and alimony threads);  these things can >> blow up very nastily.  Once you know what you’re getting into, if you >> still want to go ahead the honest thing to do would be to clear this with >> your wife in advance (if you haven’t already).  If you daren’t tell her you >> want to cheat on her you probably haven’t done all you could to revive >> the marriage. >> — >>               Aldabra Stoddart, St John’s & HPS, Cambridge >>                 "My inner child is a kiwi fruit" — G.S. >  You didn’t answer this guys’ question. But perhaps it doesn’t need >answering.

It did not really require answering.  Of course their are women out there in similar circumstances >The fact is that finding someone to romance with isn’t like a >shopping trip and in the "rat race" of the USA I don’t see how anyone >could find time!

Rat race?  Yes, it can be.  Which is why I shifted work goals.  Not so much money, but enough.  I have decided that the $28,000 car is not all that more uncomfortable than the $60,000 car.  I no longer have arguments with a peer group who spent much of their time stressed and unhappy.  Now, I actually have time to be with my wife and kids.  I can go fishing, play with my 3 dogs, talk to a friend instead of a business associate, and watch the bluejays fly about my yard. I think many of the problems that occur in marriages revolve around work.  A person must earn a living to eat and provide shelter. But I am thinking of a couple I saw a few weeks ago.  I was having lunch with my lawyer, a matter of my mother’s living will, and we were watching a couple at the next table.  About 30, I would say at a glance.  They spent the whole lunch rapidly trying to exchange information.  The kid’s schedule, day care problem, dentist appointment, etc.  Talked very quickly, glancing at watches often. They were interrupted from time to time by a beeper or cell phone call.  The food was very good but I don’t think they noticed.  At one point they bickered loudly over money.  I thought this was curious as both were dressed expensively in the latest style,  she was wearing a great deal of jewelry, and both had arrived, separately, in expensive cars. In comes another couple.  Man arrives in his work truck, a repairman of some type, jeans and flannel shirt a little worn.  Wife shows up in a Voyager, not new, with 3 kids.  All well but modestly dressed.  A family meeting for lunch.  Big thing for the kids.  They squealed and ran to Dad who grabbed them.  All sat and chatted about unimportant things.  You know, who had fell and skinned a knee, when could they go to the amusement park, etc.  While ordering their meal there was discussion about keeping it simple as mom didn’t want the price to be too high.  The mom and dad chatted quietly together while the kids ate,  couldn’t hear what they were saying but they were holding hands and exchanged small kisses several times. The first couple, glanced at the family a couple of times in annoyance, the children were happily loud.  And as the father passed there table at one point, I saw them both glance at his work boots which were well worn and needed some polish desparately. When the first couple got up to leave, they quickly pecked each other on the lips then walked, each in their own direction without glancing back at the other.  In a hurry.   My lawyer commented to me that he not once, in listening to their conversation, heard them actually talk to each other about each other. He told me that after lunch, he was cancelling some appointments.  He had decided he wanted to go home and see his wife.  No particular reason, just wanted to see her.  We have known each other for some time.  He commented that he still had an old flannel shirt in his closet and wondered if it still fit. Sometimes we create our own rat race. >   However, you imply that divorce, alimony and child support will follow >such a romance. That is a "scare tactic" and many people are never found >out in these extra marita romances, especially the women.

I don’t believe the person meant any scare tactic.  Just being realistic.  A very old and simple statement is ‘If you plan to play, you should plan to pay.’ True some people are not found out.  Others are.  But how much does a person want to gamble for some sex?  I love to have sex but there is only so far I would go for something which only lasts an hour or so. I remember one lady I met on a trip to Hawaii many years ago when I was single.  She had a minor role in a movie being filmed.  She was very beautiful and sexy…and she knew it.  Why she picked me I don’t know, I suspect that I just happened to be in the right place at the right time.  Besides her looks, she was a very horny person and for three days, when she was not otherwise occupied we had sex at every opportunity and she had no inhibitions at all. The sex was fantastic.  I very much enjoyed it.  But after 3 days I changed my travel plans and left.  The problem was that I couldn’t stand the woman, except in bed.  I hated very time she spoke.  She was shallow, full of venom about others with whom she worked,  babbled on continuously about her hair and figure and how much time she had spent on them.  She complained about every nitpicking thing possible.  She told me repeatedly that I was a great lover but I was pretty sure that when she was away from me she probably told jokes about my pitiful efforts and shortcomings. Good sex wasn’t worth that much to me.  I flew to San Diego where I met a woman who was married, on a business trip, and lonely.  She was at the same hotel as I and wanted suggestions about things to see in San Diego.  I think she also wanted someone to talk with.  We spent quite some time here and there when she was not in meetings.  She was very easily impressed with the sights about town, bragged continuously about her husband and children.  Laughed as she told me about his many faults, which she considered cute.  Complained that she felt that she could be a better business woman if only she tried harder.  Dwelled sadly on the fact that she was overweight and was amazed that her husband didn’t seem to notice.  She confessed to me that she wished she was a better lover for her husband.  He never complained but she knew that her skills were poor.  She talked about this in depth one evening when she had too many drinks.  From the descriptions,  she had room for improvement. Too tipsy, we were talking in her room, she made it clear that she was both horny and interested in learning something new to surprise her husband with back home.  I put her off as gently as possible and instead gave her a back massage until she fell asleep.  She was embarassed the next day but I consoled her and took her to lunch before her plane left. I couldn’t take advantage of her.  It probably would not have harmed their marriage in any way.  I doubt that he would have ever known or suspected.  I rejected her offer for selfish reasons.  I found this woman so enormously sexy and arousing that I knew that if I had accepted her offer,  I would not have wanted to let her go again.  She would have had to reject me, and she would have after the sex no matter how much she might have enjoyed it,  because she had too many other good things back at home.  She would have gotten over it, my heart would have broken. This is a true story.  To this day I remember the second woman’s name and details.  I don’t remember the first woman’s name at all.  It has been 28 years. Great sex can be found in many places.  A great person is much harder to find. Just an opinion, Bob By the way,  I agree with the responder who expressed the opinion that extra marrital sex can be a workable solution, for some people, a very few, in a strong marriage.  If both partners are agreeable.  Without these things, you take your risks, and are fully deserving of the consequences.  Don’t complain here.  Try ALT.DIVORCE.I-DESERVE-THIS.OUCH.OUCH.OUCH or the ever popular alt.spurt.spurt.sigh.how-long-should-i-wait-before-leaving

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In article <5inhga…@lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk>, pa…@cus.cam.ac.uk (Aldabra – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Stoddart) wrote: > In article <01bc4635$caf9a2a0$9b250e26@wierwolf>, > mail.earthlink.net <wierw…@earthlink.net> wrote: > >I know this may sound terible but it is not unusual.  I love my wife and > >kids, but my wife has lost her need (bored) for sex.  Are there any married > >women out there in a simular situation? > Before you get involved in affairs, read alt.support.divorce for a few > weeks (but skip the child-support and alimony threads);  these things can > blow up very nastily.  Once you know what you’re getting into, if you > still want to go ahead the honest thing to do would be to clear this with > your wife in advance (if you haven’t already).  If you daren’t tell her you > want to cheat on her you probably haven’t done all you could to revive > the marriage. > — >               Aldabra Stoddart, St John’s & HPS, Cambridge >                 "My inner child is a kiwi fruit" — G.S.

  You didn’t answer this guys’ question. But perhaps it doesn’t need answering. The fact is that finding someone to romance with isn’t like a shopping trip and in the "rat race" of the USA I don’t see how anyone could find time!    However, you imply that divorce, alimony and child support will follow such a romance. That is a "scare tactic" and many people are never found out in these extra marita romances, especially the women. — visit me @ http://members.aol.com/cydonia102/private/ken.html

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>But the sex, when we have it is still very enjoyable.  And one of my >favorite joys is just seeing her pleasure.  I desire it more often >than we have it but there is a cure for this.  Ever hear of >masturbation?

I love how to-the-point you are. heh…yeah, if his urges cannot be met by masturbation then they obviously extend further than the sex drive – it could mean he has deep seated real problems with the marriage, or there has been a decrease in intimacy and not just sex. MG

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On 12 Apr 1997 08:35:22 GMT, pa…@cus.cam.ac.uk (Aldabra Stoddart) wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->In article <01bc4635$caf9a2a0$9b250e26@wierwolf>, >mail.earthlink.net <wierw…@earthlink.net> wrote: >>I know this may sound terible but it is not unusual.  I love my wife and >>kids, but my wife has lost her need (bored) for sex.  Are there any married >>women out there in a simular situation? >Before you get involved in affairs, read alt.support.divorce for a few >weeks (but skip the child-support and alimony threads);  these things can >blow up very nastily.  Once you know what you’re getting into, if you >still want to go ahead the honest thing to do would be to clear this with >your wife in advance (if you haven’t already).  If you daren’t tell her you >want to cheat on her you probably haven’t done all you could to revive >the marriage. >– >              Aldabra Stoddart, St John’s & HPS, Cambridge >                "My inner child is a kiwi fruit" — G.S.

You are correct IMHO. My first response to this post included no such alternative. Masturbation is my alternative solution if nothing else can be worked out to increase desire on her part.  Simply because the chances of severe problems with the other answer are so great.  And I have found that there are too many people who, once they hear such an alternative,  immediately jump into it as a solution. I have known a few couples for which it worked.  Where a wife or husband sought additonal sex outside the marriage.  In these cases, where it worked,  it was always an agreement between partners.  And, in the situations that I am aware of,  the problem was due to a difference in sex drives.  Not a matter of simple dissatisfaction with performance or effort. For instance one friend of mine was very happily married to a lady who enjoyed sex when she was in the mood.  Unfortunately, for him,  once a month was enough for her.  The once a month kept her happy, satisfied her needs and she was very happy with his performance. She was well aware that he wanted more and would cooperate in his need out of love for him.  However, she was well aware that although he didn’t complain,  sex was not the same when one partner is merely cooperating. In the end, she solved the problem.  She found a willing female friend and arranged the match and meetings.  Who this female friend was and the motivation for her, I don’t know, I never asked,  I felt that it was not my business.  Although I probably would have been told if I asked.  We were very good friends. This sort of thing is not the usual ‘cheating’ game. However, although I am in sort of the same circumstance with my wife who has a disability.  I do not find, personally, that such an arrangement is an acceptable one.  Although, to be frank, she has brought up the subject and told me she would understand.  I can’t do it.  I love her very much and don’t want to have the feelings with another women that I share with my wife.  I know that inevitably my emotions would be split.  I don’t enjoy sex without emotional exchange. This would not cause me to feel less for my wife. But I don’t want to share my emotions, at that level, with anyone else.  My own decision.  Not necessarily the only right one for someone else. Just my thoughts, Bob

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In article <01bc4635$caf9a2a0$9b250e26@wierwolf>, mail.earthlink.net <wierw…@earthlink.net> wrote: >I know this may sound terible but it is not unusual.  I love my wife and >kids, but my wife has lost her need (bored) for sex.  Are there any married >women out there in a simular situation?

Before you get involved in affairs, read alt.support.divorce for a few weeks (but skip the child-support and alimony threads);  these things can blow up very nastily.  Once you know what you’re getting into, if you still want to go ahead the honest thing to do would be to clear this with your wife in advance (if you haven’t already).  If you daren’t tell her you want to cheat on her you probably haven’t done all you could to revive the marriage. —               Aldabra Stoddart, St John’s & HPS, Cambridge                 "My inner child is a kiwi fruit" — G.S.

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On 11 Apr 1997 05:00:12 GMT, "mail.earthlink.net" <wierw…@earthlink.net> wrote: >I know this may sound terible but it is not unusual.  I love my wife and >kids, but my wife has lost her need (bored) for sex.  Are there any married >women out there in a simular situation?

I could not pass this up without a comment. Is your marriage based only on sex? My wife is partially disabled and although she is capable of enjoying sex, her need for it is much diminished and the pain caused by the muscle contractions when she climaxes cause her to limit this activity. But the sex, when we have it is still very enjoyable.  And one of my favorite joys is just seeing her pleasure.  I desire it more often than we have it but there is a cure for this.  Ever hear of masturbation? Bob

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I know this may sound terible but it is not unusual.  I love my wife and kids, but my wife has lost her need (bored) for sex.  Are there any married women out there in a simular situation?

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Question:

I would like to know if anyone out there has a good recipie for Bass leaders (as well as other leaders)  I have tied my own for a long time but never really put much thought into it.  I would appreciate any advice. Thanks ahead for the info. Eddie

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Dear Ed: We would need to know a few more things.  What size flies or poppers are you talking about such as hook size?  Are talking about fly fishing for bass?  What weight fly line are you using? Mr. Gink – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would like to know if anyone out there has a good recipie for Bass leaders (as well as other leaders)  I have tied my own for a long time but never really put much thought into it.  I would appreciate any advice. Thanks ahead for the info. Eddie

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Question:

Thank you for sharing this info. It would help to know which creek. I fish the Stanislaus often, and when I was there for mem. day I had the same luck as you. it would be great to know a secondary place to go. One question though, are the rainbows native or stocked, if they are stocked it would suggest that the creek is popular, is that so? TimFLYFISH Dream of flyfishing, but also let the fish dream. C & R

This is not rocket science.  You break out the gazetteer, you look for streams that might be large enough to hold trout, you go check them out.  The one I found is right along a road.  In a normal year there probably wouldn’t be enough water, except for a couple of holes that never dry up.  That’s where the trout survive.  The ‘bows were pretty silvery, suggesting plants, but a little small for the standard DF&G planter.  I was clearly not the first person to find this hole. Happy hunting! Sean Brennan (std disclaimers)

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Tried fishing the Stanislaus below Tulloch dam yesterday.  The river is easily 1 ft above normal levels. The visibility was ~2ft.  I tried my standard collection of bead-heads w/o success.  Did not see any rises during the 3 hours I was there.  Spent several hours in the afternoon on a little creek near Sonora (No Tim, I’m not saying which one) which in a normal year would probably be a trickle, but now has a healthy flow.   Pulled 4 rainbows out with a BH prince, all 8-10".  Just at dusk caught another on an Elk-hair Caddis.  A thoroughly enjoyable day.  Thank goodness for the gazetteer! Best wishes, Sean Brennan (std disclaimers)

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Thank you for sharing this info. It would help to know which creek. I fish the Stanislaus often, and when I was there for mem. day I had the same luck as you. it would be great to know a secondary place to go. One question though, are the rainbows native or stocked, if they are stocked it would suggest that the creek is popular, is that so? TimFLYFISH Dream of flyfishing, but also let the fish dream. C & R

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Question:

Is there such a thing?  I’d love to drive into the mountains, meet a bunch of other homebrewers at about 10000′ (ASL), pitch a tent, stoke a fire, and swap homebrew, fly fish, lie about our SO’s, and forget about work for 48 hours.  Who’s in?  I’d suggest late-June to mid-July just because it’s going to take time to get this thing going.   email me.   — | 12459 W. Atlantic Ave | 303/763-8118 (Home) | 4725 Independence Street | | Lakewood, CO 80228    | 303/467-8352 (Work) | Wheat Ridge,  CO 80033   |

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Are you seriously opposed to bait fishermen?  I might be in.

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