Question:

Hi, I haven’t received my flies yet Paul EARTHLINK SUCK

You were expecting the flies by e-mail?  I doubt it’s Earthlink’s problem. BTW – current plan is to be in NY Friday after all…  Fingers crossed and gear already in the car.

Response:

I haven’t received my flies yet

Mine parcel arrived today.  I spent quite some time going over all of the flies.  The flies already mentioned, as well as the rest, are indeed nice flies.  One in particular really jumped out at me.  The woven soft hackle Isonychia nymph tied by Glenn Tippy really caught my eye.  I guess I kind of have a fascination with woven bodied flies but have limited myself to larger patterns in the past.  I keep fly swap flies for examples in my own endeavors and I plan on replicating this one after the conclave when I have some time to get out and shop for the materials.  I am also thinking about some modifications for different species, etc.  Oustanding tie Glenn and thanks for the inspiration. — Warren Findley Remove (nospamZZ) to respond via email http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt/

Response:

Got home from vacation in NH today and found the package on top of the inevitable pile of junk mail.  Made taking the kayaks and canoe off the car, and all the other crap of unpacking, fly. Thanks to all. Glenn Tippy GKT

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Joe, I also received my flies in great shape a couple of weeks ago.  Sorry for the long delay in letting you know.  I have been busy at work and in fishing so I have been away from the group for the last two weeks.  Thanks guys for the great ties!  I hope mine met with everyone’s expectations if not let me know and I will tie you a better one and send it off to you. Later Ed Bleck AKA Didymus

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jay Peck is a friend of mine, a non – roffian, and  I invited him to join the swap.  He is from the Rochester area, and works as a guide at a fly shop there.  You must be, too, as is evidenced by your "Caledonia scud", no doubt intended for Spring Creek. Peter Collin Got the package of flies yesterday.  Looked them all over and everybody did a great job!  I am going fishing next week for 4 days and will be using them.  I am definitely going to try out that "Mink Coat" where I know it should work. Great job everybody Rob Hey Joe- Flies received safe and sound.  Good job.  Kudos to the swapmeister, and the flies are great as well. Who is Jay Peck, by the way (tied a burnt wing mayfly)?  Is he from the Rochester area? Scott Aha!  It is the same Jay– a talented guy.  I know he’s a fine tyer, and pretty well represented in pattern books dedicated to the Northeast.  He works out of Coleman’s (of Tony Germuga fame )  He’s a very talented guide and salmon and steelhead fisherman.  I think Rick Kustich also uses some of his photographs in his books. Peter–where do you fish?  Lets get together sometime when you’re in the area.  You’re dead-on about my poor excuse for a scud.  I would have tied them better if I knew Jay was going to see it!!  My understanding is that it was designed to hide the lead for way back when Spring Creek was no-lead. Another historical fly from that era was the "Nickel Nymph", which was tied on a huge hook.  I think that pattern called for Condor!!  I would love to get my hands on one of those flies. Scott

Response:

How did you get those? Those were extra flies I tied for the swap meister. I put them in an envelope that said swap meister on the front.

I’m back at the hotel & have only had one beer so far, so here’s the simple explanation:   I had everybody tie 25 flies so they would get one of their own back in the fly swap set.   That way, I didn’t have to keep track of who’s set was who’s.   However, a few guys miscounted & only sent 24.   For those guys, I put their name on the plastic cup, & skipped them when sorting their respective sets of flies.  They didn’t get one of their own, but everybody else did.   Simple so far, eh?  (If anyone didn’t get one of their own flies in the swap, that’s why.) Well, yours (Dave) was one of the first sets I sorted, & because you labelled those two little envelopes, I mentally assigned the first two cups to Paul Goodwin (photos) & myself (swapmeister).   I put the correct envelopes into the correct cups.   Then I came across the first set of 24 (instead of 25) & forgetting what I’d done earlier, I must have taped Peter’s name on the second cup since he was the first "swapper-specific" set.   Later on, to my surprise, it turned out that I too had miscounted (only 24) & had to put my name on a cup to skip as well.   Unfortunately, it was not the same cup I’d put your "Swapmeister" envelope in. Told you it was a simple explanation.  :-) Joe F. DDFS alum.

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Would you like them back?  I’d hate to cheat the swapmeister!  Or is this like the ball games, where you get to keep the ones that go into the stands? Pete

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, both were in the little manila envelope that said "swapmeister". But I didn’t know Joe was doing three patterns.  Maybe they were strays that somehow fell into the pile.  I’ll consider them a bonus. Oops.   I didn’t tie those (& from my hotel room here I can’t remember who did), but that swapper identified one envelope for the photos & one for me personally.   In my haste, I screwed up & sent that one to you (I remember how, but it’s too complicated before breakfast <g).  I pretty much packed the boxes, mailed ‘em, & headed out of town, so I wouldn’t have realized my mistake for a week or so.   If that’s my only screw up, I’ll be happy. Joe F. DDFSwapmeister (who figured out the internet connection in his hotel room)

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jay Peck is a friend of mine, a non – roffian, and  I invited him to join the swap.  He is from the Rochester area, and works as a guide at a fly shop there.  You must be, too, as is evidenced by your "Caledonia scud", no doubt intended for Spring Creek. Peter Collin Got the package of flies yesterday.  Looked them all over and everybody did a great job!  I am going fishing next week for 4 days and will be using them.  I am definitely going to try out that "Mink Coat" where I know it should work. Great job everybody Rob Hey Joe- Flies received safe and sound.  Good job.  Kudos to the swapmeister, and the flies are great as well. Who is Jay Peck, by the way (tied a burnt wing mayfly)?  Is he from the Rochester area? Scott

Aha!  It is the same Jay– a talented guy.  I know he’s a fine tyer, and pretty well represented in pattern books dedicated to the Northeast.  He works out of Coleman’s (of Tony Germuga fame )  He’s a very talented guide and salmon and steelhead fisherman.  I think Rick Kustich also uses some of his photographs in his books. Peter–where do you fish?  Lets get together sometime when you’re in the area.  You’re dead-on about my poor excuse for a scud.  I would have tied them better if I knew Jay was going to see it!!  My understanding is that it was designed to hide the lead for way back when Spring Creek was no-lead.   Another historical fly from that era was the "Nickel Nymph", which was tied on a huge hook.  I think that pattern called for Condor!!  I would love to get my hands on one of those flies. Scott

Response:

Jay Peck is a friend of mine, a non – roffian, and  I invited him to join the swap.  He is from the Rochester area, and works as a guide at a fly shop there.  You must be, too, as is evidenced by your "Caledonia scud", no doubt intended for Spring Creek. Peter Collin

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Got the package of flies yesterday.  Looked them all over and everybody did a great job!  I am going fishing next week for 4 days and will be using them.  I am definitely going to try out that "Mink Coat" where I know it should work. Great job everybody Rob Hey Joe- Flies received safe and sound.  Good job.  Kudos to the swapmeister, and the flies are great as well. Who is Jay Peck, by the way (tied a burnt wing mayfly)?  Is he from the Rochester area? Scott

Response:

Got the package of flies yesterday.  Looked them all over and everybody did a great job!  I am going fishing next week for 4 days and will be using them.  I am definitely going to try out that "Mink Coat" where I know it should work. Great job everybody Rob

Hey Joe- Flies received safe and sound.  Good job.  Kudos to the swapmeister, and the flies are great as well. Who is Jay Peck, by the way (tied a burnt wing mayfly)?  Is he from the Rochester area? Scott

Response:

How did you get those? Those were extra flies I tied for the swap meister. I put them in an envelope that said swap meister on the front. Any ways the red one is an electric leach and the streamer is called cutt bait. The streamer is actually a saltwater pattern I use for sea run cutts and salmon but I figure there are green back minnows anywhere in the world. Later Dave —

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There were two flies I go with no tag on them.  One was a red woolybuggery sort of  thing and the other was a chartreuse streamer.  Can anybody claim these? Peter Collin

Response:

Well, both were in the little manila envelope that said "swapmeister". But I didn’t know Joe was doing three patterns.  Maybe they were strays that somehow fell into the pile.  I’ll consider them a bonus.

Oops.   I didn’t tie those (& from my hotel room here I can’t remember who did), but that swapper identified one envelope for the photos & one for me personally.   In my haste, I screwed up & sent that one to you (I remember how, but it’s too complicated before breakfast <g).  I pretty much packed the boxes, mailed ‘em, & headed out of town, so I wouldn’t have realized my mistake for a week or so.   If that’s my only screw up, I’ll be happy. Joe F. DDFSwapmeister (who figured out the internet connection in his hotel room)

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Well, both were in the little manila envelope that said "swapmeister".  But I didn’t know Joe was doing three patterns.  Maybe they were strays that somehow fell into the pile.  I’ll consider them a bonus. Peter Collin

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Got the package of flies yesterday.  Looked them all over and everybody did a great job!  I am going fishing next week for 4 days and will be using them.  I am definitely going to try out that "Mink Coat" where I know it should work. Great job everybody Rob

Response:

I think my favorite was the Madame X.  It was tied very expertly, and is the kind of floating attractor that works well on my local streams. Peter Collin

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!! Definitely an inspiration to improve upon my skills for the next swap to come. tight lines to all…… Thom Adams – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Got the package of flies yesterday.  Looked them all over and everybody did a great job!  I am going fishing next week for 4 days and will be using them.  I am definitely going to try out that "Mink Coat" where I know it should work. Great job everybody Rob

Response:

There were two flies I go with no tag on them.  One was a red woolybuggery sort of  thing and the other was a chartreuse streamer.  Can anybody claim these? Peter Collin

Response:

There were two flies I go with no tag on them.  One was a red woolybuggery sort of  thing and the other was a chartreuse streamer.  Can anybody claim these?

Hmmm, I don’t see those in my collection, so I’ll take a guess.  Since there’s no red anything in my box it might be mine.  Is it a pinkish orange foam body with a white comparadun style wing and a bushy brown tail?  If so, it’s my Orange Woof bluegill fly (some of them had green rubber legs, some didn’t).  The streamer might be Big Dale’s Foam Spider.  Does it have rubber legs?

Response:

I could be wrong, but I have some of Big D’s foam spiders and I don’t believe they would be considered streamers.  However, he could very well have tied a different type of foam spider pattern than I have, I guess? Op

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There were two flies I go with no tag on them.  One was a red woolybuggery sort of  thing and the other was a chartreuse streamer.  Can anybody claim these? Hmmm, I don’t see those in my collection, so I’ll take a guess.  Since there’s no red anything in my box it might be mine.  Is it a pinkish orange foam body with a white comparadun style wing and a bushy brown tail?  If so, it’s my Orange Woof bluegill fly (some of them had green rubber legs, some didn’t).  The streamer might be Big Dale’s Foam Spider.  Does it have rubber legs?

Response:

I could be wrong, but I have some of Big D’s foam spiders and I don’t believe they would be considered streamers.  However, he could very well have tied a different type of foam spider pattern than I have, I guess? Op

I wouldn’t call it a streamer but it has a marabou tail and is the right color.  Nothing else really looks like a streamer except for Joe’s Madame X (bullethead deer hair) and Wayne’s Mink Coat. I’m hoping we can get Paul Goodwin to do pics next week which will end all speculation.  It’s in your court Paul, the database is set up. –Stan

Response:

Hi, I haven’t received my flies yet Paul EARTHLINK SUCK

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I could be wrong, but I have some of Big D’s foam spiders and I don’t believe they would be considered streamers.  However, he could very well have tied a different type of foam spider pattern than I have, I guess? Op I wouldn’t call it a streamer but it has a marabou tail and is the right color.  Nothing else really looks like a streamer except for Joe’s Madame X (bullethead deer hair) and Wayne’s Mink Coat. I’m hoping we can get Paul Goodwin to do pics next week which will end all speculation.  It’s in your court Paul, the database is set up. –Stan

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Terry, I would have to disagree with you that an "Average" flyfisherman/woman couldn’t benefit with a cane rod. I have taken beginning fly fishers and taught them how to cast on my 5 wt. G-Loomis and after an hour of fishing had them cast my 4 wt. bamboo (made by Peter McVey of Corbit Lake, BC). In almost all cases the new caster was able to cast easier and could find the "Sweet Spot" where the rod will almost cast by itself (Something I have never felt in any of the graphite rods I have cast).  Will these people purchase a bamboo rod later in their fishing lives? I don’t know. I do know that my wife will probably end up with one sooner or later (Of course she ends up using mine all the time anyway!). Don’t get me wrong, I love my 7′ 3wt Lamiglass graphite II rod. I also love my RPLXi 9′ 8wt Sage and my G-Loomis Premiere 9′ 5wt rods. But none of them have that "Sweet Spot" that just puts the line out there with so little effort and such precision as bamboo does. Until you have felt that you will continue to use these wonderfully overpriced graphite rods. Gary Johnson For the average angler I would have to say that Sage is more or less right. Most of your average flyfisherman are not particularly good casters and a cane rod would be wasted on them. Fly presentation and cosmetics are what makes cane fun. Cane cannot compete with composites for pure performance for the I have been away from ROFF for too long!  Things like work, kids, and the business kept getting in the way.  I have missed out on too much at ROFF though! For the cane rodbuilders in the group, thought you might be interested in an article I wrote about a recent Sage video.. take a look at the article and the video and let me know what you think! http://flyfishing.about.com/library/weekly/aa072000a.htm I would love to know Mr. Gherke’s comments too! Ian Scott http://flyfishing.about.com/

_____  Well said Gary. — George G. Bastard Bamboo Fly Rods http://www.gink.com/ http://www.gink.com/chat

Response:

The no-questions-asked return policy *must* account for a good chunk of that.  And of course, advertising costs.  See www.dorber.com for their ideas on the matter (they will not accept a return if you abused the rod (car door), but will accept tradeins for prorated value (based on condition).  I believe Bruce H bought one of these rods. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sage is just an example. I don’t want to stir up an old discussion about price/quality comparisons (NO I DON’T!), but for me 490 USD is still a ridiculous price for a rod. YMMV, of course. Herman Especially for a mass produced rod. The high end graphite rod prices are way out of line for what you get. Willi

– Regards, Jeff Before you buy.

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Most definately a learner will benefit from a slower action rod that they can ‘feel’ more easily, but there are more economical ways of achieving that than using bamboo, surely? steve

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Bamboo is an outdated, anchronistic material. If you like the look and feel, fine, but for pure performance it just doesn’t have it.

I absolutely agree. In fact, bamboo rods remind me of Apple notebooks. Underpowered but extremely cache. –Steve

Response:

Most definately a learner will benefit from a slower action rod that they can ‘feel’ more easily, but there are more economical ways of achieving that than using bamboo, surely?

There sure are. Find an old (like 15 years) Walton Powell graphite rod. Bamboo is an outdated, anchronistic material. If you like the look and feel, fine, but for pure performance it just doesn’t have it. Personally, I prefer faster rods for 90% of my fishing, even when I’m throwing weight. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Terry, I would have to disagree with you that an "Average" flyfisherman/woman couldn’t benefit with a cane rod. I have taken beginning fly fishers and taught them how to cast on my 5 wt. G-Loomis and after an hour of fishing had them cast my 4 wt. bamboo (made by Peter McVey of Corbit Lake, BC). In almost all cases the new caster was able to cast easier and could find the "Sweet Spot" where the rod will almost cast by itself (Something I have never felt in any of the graphite rods I have cast).  Will these people purchase a bamboo rod later in their fishing lives? I don’t know. I do know that my wife will probably end up with one sooner or later (Of course she ends up using mine all the time anyway!). Don’t get me wrong, I love my 7′ 3wt Lamiglass graphite II rod. I also love my RPLXi 9′ 8wt Sage and my G-Loomis Premiere 9′ 5wt rods. But none of them have that "Sweet Spot" that just puts the line out there with so little effort and such precision as bamboo does. Until you have felt that you will continue to use these wonderfully overpriced graphite rods. Gary Johnson

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For the average angler I would have to say that Sage is more or less right. Most of your average flyfisherman are not particularly good casters and a cane rod would be wasted on them. Fly presentation and cosmetics are what makes cane fun. Cane cannot compete with composites for pure performance for the I have been away from ROFF for too long!  Things like work, kids, and the business kept getting in the way.  I have missed out on too much at ROFF though! For the cane rodbuilders in the group, thought you might be interested in an article I wrote about a recent Sage video.. take a look at the article and the video and let me know what you think! http://flyfishing.about.com/library/weekly/aa072000a.htm I would love to know Mr. Gherke’s comments too! Ian Scott http://flyfishing.about.com/

Response:

Sage is just an example. I don’t want to stir up an old discussion about price/quality comparisons (NO I DON’T!), but for me 490 USD is still a ridiculous price for a rod. YMMV, of course. Herman

Especially for a mass produced rod. The high end graphite rod prices are way out of line for what you get. Willi

Response:

I will be hitting the Grand again, but I also want to head off in search of some bass too.  I know a few small hidden places not far from where I used to live near Grand Valley.. might give those a shot. We really should see if we can find a day we are both available, soon!

fer sure.  In fact, Grand Valley is where my son and I will be exploring tomorrow. I’ll probably post the usual trip report. Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

I picked up a tube of your wax actually, a few weeks ago.  I like it, George.  My son, who is 12 years old, just got into fly tying in a HUGE way, and wants to trade me his little disk of wax for my Gehrke’s tube.  I can’t believe you have a 12 year old fan! <grin I read your stint with interest and I do have a few constructive comments to offer, but at this time I decline for the reason above. I’ll let you know when the links go back up..

Email me your son’s mailing address please, Ian. — Mr.Gink "the saga continues"   http://www.gink.com/

Response:

I watched the video. It was interesting to see the process of building a rod. I do think they are a bit disingenious slamming bamboo rods. Until this year I would have probably said, oh yeah, see what I mean about bamboo. I recently got an old shakespeare bamboo off ebay that astonished me by casting a good 70 feet of line in the backyard, missing a guide and all the others are rusty as hell (I just couldn’t resist casting it before rendering it down to re-wrap). My sage 5wt doesn’t perform that well for me, nor does the 7wt. Maybe I was meant to have a bamboo all along. I do agree that bamboo rods are about tradition, they are a thing of beauty, each has it’s own feel, speed and special grace that a production graphite rod, just doesn’t capture. But for the masses graphite is still a good buy. Flyfish

Response:

______  Well Ion, the name is Gehrke, please and I see you are aware of our art work but you fail to list us as a manufacturer of fine Bamboo Fly Rods? I read your stint with interest and I do have a few constructive comments to offer, but at this time I decline for the reason above.  

The link is there now, George.  If you have a better page to link to, please let me know.   Thanks.  Would love to see your comments, either here or at the message board on the site! Ian

Response:

For the average angler I would have to say that Sage is more or less right. Most of your average flyfisherman are not particularly good casters and a cane rod would be wasted on them. Fly presentation and cosmetics are what makes cane fun. Cane cannot compete with composites for pure performance for the   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I have been away from ROFF for too long!  Things like work, kids, and the business kept getting in the way.  I have missed out on too much at ROFF though! For the cane rodbuilders in the group, thought you might be interested in an article I wrote about a recent Sage video.. take a look at the article and the video and let me know what you think! http://flyfishing.about.com/library/weekly/aa072000a.htm I would love to know Mr. Gherke’s comments too! Ian Scott http://flyfishing.about.com/

Response:

For the average angler Sage is waaay out of their league… pricewise. For the average angler a decent rod that just does what it’s supposed to do is more than enough. Ok, at least for me it is.. Herman For the average angler I would have to say that Sage is more or less right. Most of your average flyfisherman are not particularly good casters and a cane rod would be wasted on them. Fly presentation and cosmetics are what makes cane fun. Cane cannot compete with composites for pure performance for the

– Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

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For the average angler Sage is waaay out of their league… pricewise. …

For the average angler across the pond Sage is ridiculously expensive, but here in North America they’re right in line with the other high end rods. The John Norris of Penrith catalogue lists a Sage 690XP at 441 pounds sterling or about $660 US on a good day, the same rod sells here in the states for $490 US. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Sage is just an example. I don’t want to stir up an old discussion about price/quality comparisons (NO I DON’T!), but for me 490 USD is still a ridiculous price for a rod. YMMV, of course. Herman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For the average angler Sage is waaay out of their league… pricewise. … For the average angler across the pond Sage is ridiculously expensive, but here in North America they’re right in line with the other high end rods. The John Norris of Penrith catalogue lists a Sage 690XP at 441 pounds sterling or about $660 US on a good day, the same rod sells here in the states for $490 US. — Ken Fortenberry

– Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

Terry,    I don’t understand why a cane rod is wasted on the "average fly fisherman" more than any other fine rod would be.  Today there are more expensive rods being "wasted" on mediocre casters because they have money and want the very best.  Expensive rods don’t make good casters, only practice can do that. Ernie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For the average angler I would have to say that Sage is more or less right. Most of your average flyfisherman are not particularly good casters and a cane rod would be wasted on them. Fly presentation and cosmetics are what makes cane fun. Cane cannot compete with composites for pure performance for the I have been away from ROFF for too long!  Things like work, kids, and the business kept getting in the way.  I have missed out on too much at ROFF though! For the cane rodbuilders in the group, thought you might be interested in an article I wrote about a recent Sage video.. take a look at the article and the video and let me know what you think! http://flyfishing.about.com/library/weekly/aa072000a.htm I would love to know Mr. Gherke’s comments too! Ian Scott http://flyfishing.about.com/

Response:

I think that Sage is basically right, for pure performance in the hands of the average flyfisherman composites cannot be beat. Cane is about presentation and tradition and would be wasted on many of the foul mouthed cowboys on this list that flyfish because it is trendy Making cane rods affordable for all flyfishermen is a sterling idea but the thought of one particular guy (his reply to the not sorry posting) with an almost hand made cane rod  giving it some verbal because he cannot lay out the whole line is amusing. Terry     – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I have been away from ROFF for too long!  Things like work, kids, and the business kept getting in the way.  I have missed out on too much at ROFF though! For the cane rodbuilders in the group, thought you might be interested in an article I wrote about a recent Sage video.. take a look at the article and the video and let me know what you think! http://flyfishing.about.com/library/weekly/aa072000a.htm I would love to know Mr. Gherke’s comments too! Ian Scott http://flyfishing.about.com/

Response:

______  Well Ion, the name is Gehrke, please and I see you are aware of our art work but you fail to list us as a manufacturer of fine Bamboo Fly Rods?

Well, hot spit!  I was sure I had Gehrke in my spell checker!! Sorry about the typo, Mr. G.  :) I have you listed at the bottom of the article in question, under ‘Related Links’.  I used to have you listed when you had all that information on the Bastard Rod Company, but then the links seemed to go dead and I couldn’t figure out where you put the pages.  Goes to show you about these rod makers and wax producers when they design their websites and re-design them..   I picked up a tube of your wax actually, a few weeks ago.  I like it, George.  My son, who is 12 years old, just got into fly tying in a HUGE way, and wants to trade me his little disk of wax for my Gehrke’s tube.  I can’t believe you have a 12 year old fan! <grin I read your stint with interest and I do have a few constructive comments to offer, but at this time I decline for the reason above.  

I’ll let you know when the links go back up..

Response:

Wondered where you ran off to.

Been using your mini browns and Larry Medina’s turkey tail nymphs on the Grand.  I should take my camera more often.  The problem is, I never catch anything when I have the camera worth photographing.  When I don’t have it, I have lots of tales to tell, but no evidence! I tried this video URL and the thing will download but not run.  First it had me download a MS viewer then RealPlayer beta 8 and the damn thing still just sits.  I’m running IE 5.5 with all mod cons and the Sage Video page is full of broken GIFs – great site – NOT!

Hm.  Not sure what to say to help you out on that. Anyway, I’ll read the article without the video and post my appropriately rude comments.

I will look forward to them   Have you been out much yourself on the Grand lately?  Or anyplace else for that matter?  I am on Vacation for 3 weeks, and thinking about some spots to take my sons fishing with me.  The eldest (12 year old) is right into flyfishing.. the other two are still a little more comfortable with worms and such right now.

Response:

Typical – after a couple of reboots and playing with the video settings, I finally have a working video. This was fascinating for me as though I’ve seen snippets of graphite rod making, I’ve never seen the whole enchilada. I can’t figure out why Gerry is going on about cane rods.  It’s not like they’re some major competion for him (or does the resurgence have him worried?)  Of course cane is heavier but some of the tapers being used now along with good lines, can produce amazing performance.   Ted Knott let me cast a brand new 9 wt. 3 pce. 8′ 6" cane he had designed. Though heavier, it had tremedous power and I’d have no qualms about spending a day on the water with it.   Gerry’s barking up the wrong tree. Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Been using your mini browns and Larry Medina’s turkey tail nymphs on the Grand.  I should take my camera more often.  The problem is, I never catch anything when I have the camera worth photographing.  When I don’t have it, I have lots of tales to tell, but no evidence!

The Grand has been running off colour a lot of late – best conditions for the mini. – Always the way.  Leave the camera in the truck and Mr. Monster Brown obliges. Hm.  Not sure what to say to help you out on that. Anyway, I’ll read the article without the video and post my appropriately rude comments.

Got it working. I will look forward to them   Have you been out much yourself on the Grand lately?  Or anyplace else for that matter?  I am on Vacation for 3 weeks, and thinking about some spots to take my sons fishing with me.  The eldest (12 year old) is right into flyfishing.. the other two are still a little more comfortable with worms and such right now.

I’m starting a one week vacation right now but much of it will be taken up by my MA thesis.  Last week, we tried the Glen Morris area (look back a week for the Scott, Greg and Peter Show post) but nothing but tiddlers.  My son and his friend just got back from the Grand, Cedar Run – one brown for him and 5 for Adam.  Good luck with the kids, I’m just introducing my 21 year old daughter to the game.  She was a real hot angler before puberty (worms mostly) but you know what happens when they hit their teens – boys, clothes, music, makeup, etc. etc.  Bronte Creek in Lowville Park is a great place to take a budding fly fisher, – willing baby steelies and lots of easy water and plenty of room.  Duffins Creek at the east end is about the same.  Have fun and let me know if you can get out for a serious day on the Grand. Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Good luck with the kids, I’m just introducing my 21 year old daughter to the game.  She was a real hot angler before puberty (worms mostly) but you know what happens when they hit their teens – boys, clothes, music, makeup, etc. etc.  Bronte Creek in Lowville Park is a great place to take a budding fly fisher, – willing baby steelies and lots of easy water and plenty of room.  Duffins Creek at the east end is about the same.  Have fun and let me know if you can get out for a serious day on the Grand.

21 is too young for me.  Now that my divorce is just about through, I have to keep my eyes out for a fly fishin’ woman, a little older though probably.  And, yes looks DO count! With respect to the Duffins, that is exactly where my eldest had his introduction to flyfishing, this spring!  It was awesome – he caught two little browns on his first day out with a fly!  I was really proud of him, especially after he said he didn’t care much for worm fishing anymore .  I wrote an article about that trip, if you’re interested. Alex was pretty impressed! http://flyfishing.about.com/library/weekly/aa052800a.htm We spent some time on Oshawa Creek first, just to let Alex get the hang of it.  Actually, I had him do a bit of casting before we even got down to the stream, but he picked it up really quick!  Kids are probably easier to teach in some ways than adults. I will be hitting the Grand again, but I also want to head off in search of some bass too.  I know a few small hidden places not far from where I used to live near Grand Valley.. might give those a shot. We really should see if we can find a day we are both available, soon! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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I have been away from ROFF for too long!  Things like work, kids, and the business kept getting in the way.  I have missed out on too much at ROFF though! For the cane rodbuilders in the group, thought you might be interested in an article I wrote about a recent Sage video.. take a look at the article and the video and let me know what you think! http://flyfishing.about.com/library/weekly/aa072000a.htm I would love to know Mr. Gherke’s comments too! Ian Scott http://flyfishing.about.com/

Wondered where you ran off to. I tried this video URL and the thing will download but not run.  First it had me download a MS viewer then RealPlayer beta 8 and the damn thing still just sits.  I’m running IE 5.5 with all mod cons and the Sage Video page is full of broken GIFs – great site – NOT! Anyway, I’ll read the article without the video and post my appropriately rude comments. Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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I have been away from ROFF for too long!  Things like work, kids, and the business kept getting in the way.  I have missed out on too much at ROFF though! For the cane rodbuilders in the group, thought you might be interested in an article I wrote about a recent Sage video.. take a look at the article and the video and let me know what you think! http://flyfishing.about.com/library/weekly/aa072000a.htm I would love to know Mr. Gherke’s comments too! Ian Scott http://flyfishing.about.com/

______  Well Ion, the name is Gehrke, please and I see you are aware of our art work but you fail to list us as a manufacturer of fine Bamboo Fly Rods? I read your stint with interest and I do have a few constructive comments to offer, but at this time I decline for the reason above.   Take care friend, — Mr.Gink "the saga continues"   http://www.gink.com/

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I have been away from ROFF for too long!  Things like work, kids, and the business kept getting in the way.  I have missed out on too much at ROFF though! For the cane rodbuilders in the group, thought you might be interested in an article I wrote about a recent Sage video.. take a look at the article and the video and let me know what you think! http://flyfishing.about.com/library/weekly/aa072000a.htm I would love to know Mr. Gherke’s comments too! Ian Scott http://flyfishing.about.com/

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Question:

Hi Folks, after all the e-mails enquiring as to my reasons for ceasing to subscribe

Gentlemen and Ladies, I am moved by the loss of the best among us. I have filed Mike’s post in a place where I’ll be able to find it next time I feel like launching a salvo. Hope we can all do the same. sniff…..

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I have simply made a personal decision not to subscribe.

Good to see your byline again, Mike, even if for the last time.  best wishes….. Mark Faulkner

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Mike Connor wrote [final farewell snipped] Huge loss for ROFF.  I’ll miss your wit Mike.

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Mike Connor Honi soit qui mal y pense.

George Visit: http://www.gink.com

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Hi Folks, after all the e-mails enquiring as to my reasons for ceasing to subscribe to the news groups generally and ROFF specifically, and although I was of the opinion that I had made my reasons quite clear, here they are once again. The subject is now closed for me. I will not answer any further e-mails on this subject, it would serve no useful purpose. E-mails to the various websites or bulletin boards to which I contribute are also a waste of time, as I will not discuss the matter further. I would be most obliged if you would consider this, especially in the chat rooms where I am on line, nobody is interested in the matter, and it just wastes time and annoys people. I will also not join in discussions denigrating ROFF, or any of its contributors under any circumstances whatsoever. If you have a problem with somebody on ROFF then talk to them or take it to e-mail with the people concerned, I have no interest in the matter. I have no personal axe to grind as far as ROFF is concerned, I still think ROFF is basically  great actually, I have simply made a personal decision not to subscribe. The reasons are listed in order of importance, just in case anybody wants to know exactly, as it appears quite a few do. 1.  I cannot afford to pay for the downloading of large amounts of spam. This is purely  a financial criteria, and is by far the most important one. Without attempting to define spam, I mean anything which may generally be described as crap, be it multiple senseless posts, or direct commercial misuse of usenet. This simply costs me a lot of money which I do not have in amounts sufficient to waste on this nonsense. Before anybody else sends me tips for saving money on usenet, do me and yourself a favour, forget it. Most of the ideas are not practicable, and as I pay metered rates for on line time, sometimes not even possible. 2. I see no point in allowing myself to be insulted or provoked by people whose main interest in life seems to be annoying or upsetting  as many people as they can in the shortest possible time. Especially when it is just nasty and not even remotely amusing. This runs contrary to the spirit of the newsgroup, and continuing to pay out good money for this sort of thing would mean I would have to have a screw loose, this is fortunately not the case. 3. I am my own man, I do what I do, say what I say, and think what I think, I do not like it much when people attribute my words or actions to reasons they have dreamed up themselves, and attempt to prove their invariably faulty conclusions in print on a public forum. I am nobodies sycophant. I also resent it deeply when people make stupid or annoying or simply false statements based on posts I or others have made, where it is perfectly obvious that they have either not read the posts properly or are lacking the wherewithal to understand them. 4.  The informational and amusement content of the newsgroups seems to be deteriorating in direct proportion to the amount of ill mannered and ignorant persons subscribing to them. I would tend to avoid such people in private life, ( the "bar" analogy ), and see no reason why I should not follow this eminently sensible policy elsewhere also. 5.  There are too many people who want to control all sorts of things, up to and including what other people may or may not post. Usenet is in my opinion one of the last bastions of true free speech, to those who can not accept this, or attempt continually to misuse it, I can only say you are not ready for freedom of speech.  Freedom of speech allows you to say what you like when you like to whoever you like, like many great things it should be exercised with manners and self-control if it is not to degenerate into a senseless insulting free for all, even more so on a relatively  anoymous medium like usenet.  If some of the things said on here in the past were indeed said in a bar, then the people responsible would certainly be looking for a new set of teeth at the very least, and a good thing too. Unfortunately as I am unable to come into even remote striking distance of the aforementioned dental accoutrements, I find it better to remove myself from the sphere of influence, whether a bar or usenet is immaterial. 6.  I was indeed extremely angry at the amount of direct e-mail spam I received as a result of the ill considered efforts of one ROFF contributor in distributing my e-mail address to commercial spammers. I am prepared to accept that this was a mistake, the person concerned apologised profusely and sincerely,and I am no longer angry at him.  This was not my main reason for leaving the group, just an extra annoyance. 7. I was ever more dismayed at the number of trolls obviously designed to get a rise out of somebody or provoke a useless argument, which turned nasty fairly quickly, I see no point in this, and I imagine it is just some perverse form of entertainment, in which only perverts would indulge, especially in view of the anonymous nature of the whole thing. Purposely pissing off someone you dont even know for enjoyment strikes me as being perverse in the  extreme, and I prefer to keep my distance in such cases. 8. The comment from many  posters that anybody who posts in public forums should expect to be insulted and must develop a thick skin is in my opinion a symptom of their own perversity and lack of manners. I expect to be treated at least with good manners. When this is not the case I have several options usually. In this particular case, retiring from the field is probably the most sensible. 9.  I was of the opinion that groups such as ROFF provided a service and source of information on the subject at hand, and everything even remotely related to it. I attempted to subcribe in this spirit, as I assume most others also do.  This attempt met  with far more negative criticism and insulting responses than I would have hoped it might, and this was extremely disappointing. This also contributed to my decision to leave. I hope this clears up any wierd ideas, misconceptions, or even downright lies as to why I no longer subscribe, and that the subject is now definitely closed. I welcome personal and private e-mail on any and every subject under the sun, and I am happy to help anybody at all if it lies within my power, however as I already said on at least one other occasion, enquiries which start with the words "How do I start fly-fishing" or similar all embracing questions are beyond my power to answer in a couple of e-mails, and anybody who thinks he can become a good flyfisherman by studying a potted set of answers from one person, or even a group of people, or watching videos etc, ought to take up tennis, or bowling or something similar. The only way to become a good flyfisherman is to go and do it, read as much as you can, talk to as many flyfishers as you can, and try out what they say, advice on specific problems will always be available. One of the greatest attractions of flyfishing is the fact that however much you learn, and however good you become, there is always something new to learn, the possibilities and facets are infinite.  Flyfishing is not just a hobby like embroidering cushion covers, or weaving carpets, as a way of killing time, it is a philosophy, a religion, a way of life. It is hard work all the way, but absolutely fascinating, entrancing and enslaving. Thanks again for all your e-mails, I am surprised ( and of course pleased ! ) that my leaving a forum like this could generate such a furore which lasts such a long time. I obviously made a positive and pleasant impact on at least some of you, as indeed many of you did on myself. It is very pleasant to get such support and encouragement mostly from people I have never met , and probably never will, I met some lovely people on the groups, I enjoyed myself, and I learned an awful lot, but I will not return to any of the newsgroups, if only to prove some of the ignorant and insulting people  wrong who e-mailed me telling me what a pompous over educated ( If only they knew !!! )ass I am, and that I would doubtless return at some point. I would not like to give such people the satisfaction of being right, even if I got usenet access for free ! Tight lines ! Mike Connor Honi soit qui mal y pense.

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Question:

Hi, I missed the original post, but if it’s tailing loops, Dan is right on – the timings the thing. I would just add that you might also check that ou are indeed throwing the line "up and over". I find that many problems originate when a caster is just whipping the rod, rather than concentrating on putting the fly line up and over the shoulder, this ensures a straight take away, and does a lot to prevent side loops, which most people confuse with tailing loops. Just a thought…. Bill – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dan, I have to say that your recent series of posts has been one of the most helpful things I have ever seen in this newsgroup. I’m sure a lot of us have learned from it, even those of us who have been fishing for a while (I can still tail the odd loop just fine after twenty years with a fly rod). We might even have to stop bitching about Orivs for a while… (-: Andrew Andrew N. Herd Associate Editor, Waterlog Magazine http://www.demon.co.uk/medlarpress/ writes: If the timing is bad, the line drops well below the plane on the forward cast before you bring it forward and it can hit the line.  Practicing your casting at times other than just when you’re fishing can go a long way to develop the sense of timing needed to correct this.  A practical exercise to allow you to see the cast without swiveling your shoulders (swiveling shoulders causes you to throw hooks in your cast) is to either use a side-arm cast, or angle your body at about 60 degrees to the target so you can move your head to watch the back cast extend without moving your shoulders. Snip                        Hope this helps,                                Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

– Bill Curry Tight Lines Guide Service Lockeport, Nova Scotia, Canada http://www.tightlines.ns.ca

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This is one of the best explanations/techniques I have heard for identifying this problem!!!  A couple years ago I was throwing tailing loop after tailing loop.  Since it was the end of the day and I had gotten up at 4:00am I just figured I was tired and decided to call it a day.  Just then (of course) a big brown noisily slurped a hopper and I decided on "just a couple more casts". I promptly threw a tailing loop AND tangled in an overhanging branch.  I snapped off the leader.  When preparing to tie on a new one I noticed a crack in the flyline about 2 or 3" up from the leader.  I trimmed the line, tied on a new leader and proceeded to make several casts that were better than most I had thrown all afternoon.  Now I have a technique for identifying the problem rather than lucking out.  Thanks! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – writes: If anyone can help me I could really use some advice (and I really don’t want to hear anything about my socks not matching my shoes).  I consider myself an intermediate fly caster, but I occassionally will get a closing loop where the leader will actually wrap itself around the loop.  I read in a book that it can be caused by accelerating into the foreward cast too soon and not smoothly accelerating. Does anyone else have some advice? All opinions are appreciated. Hi Dana, Before you start worrying about your casting technique, take a quick look at the junction of the leader to the fly line.  If it is cracked so that it hinges instead of transferring energy smoothly, no amount of casting modification will make it work. Perfectly executed casts with this mechanical problem will throw tailing loops. If you’re not sure whether or not the junction causes a hinge, here’s a simple test: 1.  Hold the fly line in one hand and the leader in the other with the junction in the middle and about 6" of material on each side of it. 2.  Push your hands together until they are about 6" apart.  This should form an upside down "U"  in the line. 3.  Raise one hand while lowering the other.  This will roll the junction over the upside down "U" in the line. 4.  If it rolls over smoothly then your casting technique is the problem. If one side collapses instead of rolling over, then you have a mechanical "hinging" problem.  If you use too fine of a diameter monofilament for the butt section of your leader, that will cause hinging on the leader side – If you use too heavy of a diameter mono for the butt section it will cause the fly line to collapse.  Any crack that is serious enough to cause casting problems becomes immediately apparent with this test.  In any case the answer is to cut off the old junction and replace it with one of the right size.  You will often have to cut off a few inches of the fly line if it’s badly cracked. I’ll address some casting options in another post.                            Hope this helps,                                      Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

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Dan, I have to say that your recent series of posts has been one of the most helpful things I have ever seen in this newsgroup. I’m sure a lot of us have learned from it, even those of us who have been fishing for a while (I can still tail the odd loop just fine after twenty years with a fly rod). We might even have to stop bitching about Orivs for a while… (-: Andrew Andrew N. Herd Associate Editor, Waterlog Magazine http://www.demon.co.uk/medlarpress/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – writes: If the timing is bad, the line drops well below the plane on the forward cast before you bring it forward and it can hit the line.  Practicing your casting at times other than just when you’re fishing can go a long way to develop the sense of timing needed to correct this.  A practical exercise to allow you to see the cast without swiveling your shoulders (swiveling shoulders causes you to throw hooks in your cast) is to either use a side-arm cast, or angle your body at about 60 degrees to the target so you can move your head to watch the back cast extend without moving your shoulders.

Snip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –                        Hope this helps,                                Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

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Hi Dana, It sounds like the old trailing loop syndrome.  We all start off with it as a throw back to the spinning rod. Your book is correct. I’ve taught many people how to cast and they all go through this problem.  Most seem to correct the problem once they’ve heard the problem explained in a way that makes sense to them. So I’ll explain it in a different way. Hold your rod out directly straight from you and push down. Notice the Tip of the rod goes up before it goes down with the rest of the rod. When you start a cast the same thing happens. If you apply too much power too soon the rod tip goes down before it goes forward. The line simply follows along going down before it comes up. Sometimes catching itself on the way back up. Any power applied before the tip of the rod reaches the 12:00 position will cause the rod tip to go down before forward. Therefore the majority of power must be applied after the tip of the rod has past the butt. Good Luck — William Endicott – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If anyone can help me I could really use some advice (and I really don’t want to hear anything about my socks not matching my shoes).  I consider myself an intermediate fly caster, but I occassionally will get a closing loop where the leader will actually wrap itself around the loop.  I read in a book that it can be caused by accelerating into the foreward cast too soon and not smoothly accelerating. Does anyone else have some advice? All opinions are appreciated. Thanks, Dana

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Something that improved my casting was to convince myself there was no difference between the back and forward cast.  I started false casting 30′ of line and slowly rotated while keeping the line going in the same direction until I was facing what was my back cast.  When I could rotate 360 degrees under the cast and keep it going smoothly with tight loops and not shock the line or have tailing loops, my attitude toward the mechanics of casting changed and my casting improved. — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If anyone can help me I could really use some advice (and I really don’t want to hear anything about my socks not matching my shoes).  I consider myself an intermediate fly caster, but I occassionally will get a closing loop where the leader will actually wrap itself around the loop.  I read in a book that it can be caused by accelerating into the foreward cast too soon and not smoothly accelerating. Does anyone else have some advice? All opinions are appreciated. Thanks, Dana

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writes: If anyone can help me I could really use some advice (and I really don’t want to hear anything about my socks not matching my shoes).  I consider myself an intermediate fly caster, but I occassionally will get a closing loop where the leader will actually wrap itself around the loop.  I read in a book that it can be caused by accelerating into the foreward cast too soon and not smoothly accelerating. Does anyone else have some advice? All opinions are appreciated.

Hi Dana, Before you start worrying about your casting technique, take a quick look at the junction of the leader to the fly line.  If it is cracked so that it hinges instead of transferring energy smoothly, no amount of casting modification will make it work. Perfectly executed casts with this mechanical problem will throw tailing loops. If you’re not sure whether or not the junction causes a hinge, here’s a simple test: 1.  Hold the fly line in one hand and the leader in the other with the junction in the middle and about 6" of material on each side of it. 2.  Push your hands together until they are about 6" apart.  This should form an upside down "U"  in the line. 3.  Raise one hand while lowering the other.  This will roll the junction over the upside down "U" in the line. 4.  If it rolls over smoothly then your casting technique is the problem.  If one side collapses instead of rolling over, then you have a mechanical "hinging" problem.  If you use too fine of a diameter monofilament for the butt section of your leader, that will cause hinging on the leader side – If you use too heavy of a diameter mono for the butt section it will cause the fly line to collapse.  Any crack that is serious enough to cause casting problems becomes immediately apparent with this test.  In any case the answer is to cut off the old junction and replace it with one of the right size.  You will often have to cut off a few inches of the fly line if it’s badly cracked. I’ll address some casting options in another post.                             Hope this helps,                                       Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

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writes: If anyone can help me I could really use some advice (and I really don’t want to hear anything about my socks not matching my shoes).  I consider myself an intermediate fly caster, but I occassionally will get a closing loop where the leader will actually wrap itself around the loop.  I read in a book that it can be caused by accelerating into the foreward cast too soon and not smoothly accelerating. Does anyone else have some advice? All opinions are appreciated.

Besides the mechanical problems addressed in another post, your casting technique can certainly cause this problem. The two most common causes are bad timing, and the afore-mentioned jerky accelleration.  If the timing is bad, the line drops well below the plane on the forward cast before you bring it forward and it can hit the line.  Practicing your casting at times other than just when you’re fishing can go a long way to develop the sense of timing needed to correct this.  A practical exercise to allow you to see the cast without swiveling your shoulders (swiveling shoulders causes you to throw hooks in your cast) is to either use a side-arm cast, or angle your body at about 60 degrees to the target so you can move your head to watch the back cast extend without moving your shoulders.   For the side-arm cast, lay the rod out directly in front of you with the reel pointed in the direction of the target (not pointed down at the ground *very important*).  Use a slicing motion, not a scooping motion to make the cast while keeping your shoulders perfectly still.  You can watch the loop travel in both directions and you can easily see the width of the casting arc you’re using.  By changing the width of this casting arc you can widen or tighten your loops.  *Dont wait for the line to straighten out entirely* before you start your forward cast.  It takes a split second reaction time to initiate the forward cast and if you wait until it straightens out entirely it will fall considerably and bleed off energy before you actually start your forward cast. Reaction time is different for everyone and you have to find out just when is right by trial and error.  For starters pick a spot a foot or two back from the end of the fly line, and when the unrolling loop reaches that point, start your forward cast.  Adjust this distance farther back from the end of the fly line or closer to it as needed.  When you hit it "spot on" the fly will just sort of stop for a split second in mid-air.  That’s perfect.  The good news is that it doesn’t have to be perfect, but the closer you can get to it the more efficient your casting will be. Bad accelleration is a more common problem with tailing loops and it becomes particularly noticeable when making longer casts or when casting in windy conditions.  The tendency is to put a lot more force into the rod and that usually results in jerking it forward.  This sudden jerk causes the rod to load (flex) suddenly and then unload (straighten) slightly because less energy is used to finish the stroke than start it.  This causes the rod tip to travel in a concave or U shape and will always throw a tailing loop.   Extra power can be added to a casting stroke, but it must be at the very end – "Accellerate to a Stop".  If this is the problem, try stopping the rod more suddenly at the end of the stroke instead of hitting it harder at the start. Another option that will result in the same thing is to start the beginning of your cast by pulling on the rod, not jerking it.  With proper accelleration and the right casting arc, your rod tip will travel in a straight line "—-" from start through the flexing and to the finish which will throw a tight efficient loop.                         Hope this helps,                                 Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

Response:

If anyone can help me I could really use some advice (and I really don’t want to hear anything about my socks not matching my shoes).  I consider myself an intermediate fly caster, but I occassionally will get a closing loop where the leader will actually wrap itself around the loop.  I read in a book that it can be caused by accelerating into the foreward cast too soon and not smoothly accelerating. Does anyone else have some advice? All opinions are appreciated. Thanks, Dana

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve never done it before, but I have decided to try for freshwater prawns. These live in the streams on the Big Island of Hawaii. Maybe someone could share some pointers on fishing techniques. I’ve heard of people using crab nets.  They seem too fast for wading in with scooping nets.  Are there traps that one can build? -thanx -dan Are you talking about crawfish? or commonly called crawdads. If so, you can catch them with a baited trap or at night in the shallows with a light. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA

Here is info from an expert:         As a former 10 year resident of Kauai this is how all the locals trap prawns.         They get the standard wire mesh with 1/4 inch square spaces. Bend the mesh until you have made a tube about 18 inches long open at both ends. Close off one end flat with the left over mesh. You then suspend half of a coconut shell with the coconut meat still in the shell in the back of the tube where you have closed it off with the meat facing the open end. You then take a piece of the same wire mesh and form a cone with the small end roughly about the size of a tennis ball depending on the size of the prawns in the pond you are looking to harvest. Insert the cone in the open end of the tube and affix to tube (this prevents them from leaving the trap). Tie a string to the end and leave over night and the next morning you should have a nice breakfast waiting for you.         If you have never seen a prawn they look almost exactly like crawdads but their pinchers are about ten times as long and their bodies can be as long as 12 to 14 inches. A true Hawaiian delicacy! Aloha, Shane — Roller Hockey International Grass Valley League Office 13070 Fawn Hill Dr. Grass Valley, CA  95945 ph: 916-272-7825        FAX: 916-272-7858         Standings/Statistics    http://www.oro.net/~rhiglo/

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I’ve never done it before, but I have decided to try for freshwater prawns. These live in the streams on the Big Island of Hawaii.   Maybe someone could share some pointers on fishing techniques. I’ve heard of people using crab nets.  They seem too fast for wading in with scooping nets.  Are there traps that one can build? -thanx -dan

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I’ve never done it before, but I have decided to try for freshwater prawns. These live in the streams on the Big Island of Hawaii.   Maybe someone could share some pointers on fishing techniques. I’ve heard of people using crab nets.  They seem too fast for wading in with scooping nets.  Are there traps that one can build? -thanx -dan

Are you talking about crawfish? or commonly called crawdads. If so, you can catch them with a baited trap or at night in the shallows with a light. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA

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trying to access group

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I was born in wyoming and was taught to fish usin g bait casting methods.  My family bought me a fly tying outfit.  last night i tried to tie several flies using a BANTAM 1 fly tying kit from target.  I tried to follow autors directions to attach "wing" portion.  pictures were in black/white. hard to follow.  advice?

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I was born in wyoming and was taught to fish usin g bait casting methods.  My family bought me a fly tying outfit.  last night i tried to tie several flies using a BANTAM 1 fly tying kit from target.  I tried to follow autors directions to attach "wing" portion.  pictures were in black/white. hard to follow.  advice?

Go to your public library and check out several books on fly tying, read them and then keep trying until you get it right.  BTW the fish can’t care less if the fly is properly tied.  They are looking for food.   Anymore questions try the rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.tying newsgroup

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Question:

Will someone please post the materials list for a Pheasant Tail nymph.  I can’t believe it but my three tying books don’t list the pattern! Thanks, Johnny

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Will someone please post the materials list for a Pheasant Tail nymph.  I can’t believe it but my three tying books don’t list the pattern! Thanks, Johnny

Thread – tan Tail – pheasant tail tips Body – pheasant tail fibers wrapped like herl Ribbing – thin copper wire Thorax – copper wire (for bulk and added weight) over-wrapped with peacock               herl Wing case – pheasant tail with fibers divided at the head and turned back on               either side as "legs" (trimmed to 2/3 body length) – can be tied as bead head or with variations (flashback, mylar ribbing, etc.) Good fishing!  J. Rice

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materials: cock ring-neck pheasant tail, peacock herl, fine copper wire, black thread, 1X nymph hooks (pretty fancy, huh?) tie thread base, tie tail using 4-8 barbules from tails feather depending on size equal to 1/2 length of hook shank (no longer) with 3-4 wraps of thread; tie in copper wire, wrap tail fibres forward to midpoint; counter wrap copper wire rib, tie off and trim (your thread is now just forweard of the midpoint of the shank); fold back fibres over top of fly and tie down with a couple of wraps; tie in peacock herl and wrap a full thorax; fold fibers forward over the herl forming the case, tie down with 3-4 wraps of thread; divide fibres and fold back along the sides to form legs, tie down and whip finish. I don’t think I left anything out. A little practice and you should be able to tie 16-20 flies per hour with a rotary vice. Personal variations permitted. Hope this helps. — Ken Clark Ft. Lupton, CO

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I’m not sure what a book might say, but I’ve tied thousands with the following: cooper wire Pheasant Tail Fibers Peacock Herl Lead underbody (if allowed) Tie in tail of 3-6 tail fibers, Tie in a length of pheasant tail fibers 1/8′ or so wide and 1 1/2 times the length of hook shank and wrap fibers forward to 2/3 point of shank (do not cut butts)  rib with wire forward tie down with thread wrap peacock in for thorax and bring pheasant over top of hook for wing case tie down pull a few fiber out to side as legs tie off your done. Good luck, Great Nymph

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Pheasant tails, peacock hurl, fine copper, hook and thread. John Nesselrode Shawnee, KS

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Will someone please post the materials list for a Pheasant Tail nymph.  I can’t believe it but my three tying books don’t list the pattern!

The original English tie by Frank Sawyer uses only PT herl and fine copper wire (i.e. no thread.)  If your wire is fine enough, it’s all you need. (A cheap source is transformers from broken electrical gadgets.) — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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Will someone please post the materials list for a Pheasant Tail nymph.  I can’t believe it but my three tying books don’t list the pattern! Thanks, Johnny

Hi Johnny Here is the dressing as written by Frank Sawyer in the 1950s.  Sawyer was a river keeper and is the man credited with the invention of the PTN. This dressing may not be what you were expecting as it uses fine copper wire rather than thread.  Although that sounds difficult, I have dressed some of these myself and it wasn’t that hard.  They were also VERY effective.  Good luck. Russ         Now as to the dressings.  The materials used are quite easy for         most, who are interested, to obtain.  To represent the several         olive nymphs my pattern of the pheasant tail can be constructed         on three different hook sizes, No 00, No 0 and No 1*, and I         make no claim that the use of pheasant tail fibres for the body         of nymphs or flies is original.  But what I do claim is the         manner of the base building, ballasting, and the tying in of         the pheasant tail fibres with fine copper wire, of a colouring         to suit and tone in which the general dressing.  Artificial         nymphs tied in my way are not difficult to make, and the simple         instruction I am able to give should be sufficient for anyone         with nimble fingers to follow.         First grip the selected hook firmly in the vice and then give         the hook an even covering from bend to eye with fine         red-coloured copper wire.  The wire we use is little thicker         than a human hair and this one can obtain at little cost from         various sources.  It is used for the windings in small         transformers, dynamos, or electric motors.  After the hook has         been covered and the wire locked so that it cannot spin around         the hook shank, wind the wire in even turns to the point where         the thorax of the nymph is to be constructed, and there build         up a hump.  Then wind the wire back to the hook bend and let it         dangle.  Wire is much easier to use than silk as it will not         spin off or loosen if the tension is relaxed.         The wire with its red colour forms the base for the dressing         and at the same time gives additional weight to the hook.  I         dispense entirely with the use of silk and use the fine wire to         tie in the dressing.  The wire is now dangling from the hook         bend.  Take the four centre fibres of the browny-red cock         pheasant tail feather.  Hold the fibres by the tips and then         tie them on the with the wire so that the fine ends stand out         about one eighth of an inch from the hook bend.  They form the         tails, or the set of the nymph.  Then spin the four fibres of         the pheasant tail on to the wire so that they are reinforced,         and then lap fibres and wire evenly to the hook eye.  Hold the         wire firmly, separate the fibres from it and then wind the wire         to the point behind which the thorax is to be made.  Bend the         fibres back and fasten for the first lap of the thorax, then         forward to the eye of the hook again.  Fasten here securely         with half a dozen turns of wire and then cut away spare         fibres.         Our finished effort should have a very pronounced thorax which         suggests the bulging wing cases, and a body which tapers neatly         to the tail.  With the tail fibres spread, all is complete.         It will be noted by those who follow these instructions that         the upper part of the thorax which imitates the wing cases is         much darker than the rest of the body.  This is brought about         by the lapping back and forth of the butt ends of the pheasant         tail fibres.  If wire and fibres are wound evenly on the hook,         the spare ends should have the dark tone which is a feature in         the butts of these fibres.  This gives a very natural         appearance to the thorax.  The fibres of pheasant tail vary in         length, and indeed texture, from the butt of the feather to the         tip, so when dressing a nymph one can select lengths most         suitable for the size of the hook, bearing in mind that when         the body is made the dark part is ready to use for lapping.         When wet this pattern has a translucent effect and one can see         the red of the wire showing through the pheasant tail fibres.         The artificial, so constructed, has a very good entry to water         and will sink deeply when required.  The hook point is not         muffled or guarded in any way by hackles or by the dressing,         and a slight lift of the rod will drive it home. * Modern sizes 14, 15 and 16

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Will someone please post the materials list for a Pheasant Tail nymph.  I can’t believe it but my three tying books don’t list the pattern! Thanks, Johnny

The nymph is tied with copper wire as thread.  Leaving a long tag, wrap to the bend.  Tie in about 6 pheasant tail fibers, leaving the tips for the tail.  Wrap the wire to the start of the thorax (2/3 up the shank), then create a body by wrapping the butts of the pheasant tail.  Tie them off with the wire, then use the long tag to rib the body.  Tie off the copper ribbing with the copper "thread" then trim everything.  Tie in a larger bunch of pheasant tail fibers, with the tip length about hook shank length, then some peacock herl (2-3).  Wrap the wire almost to the eye, then back to the herl, then forward again.  This weights the nymph, so wrap according to what you want.  Wrap the herl to create a plump thorax, tie it off, and trim it.  Pull the fibers over the herl to create a wing case, then pull about three to each side and create legs.  Wrap a copper head, and finish. BTW, this nymph REALLY works if fished deep.

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Thanks to everyone for the help on the pattern! Johnny Johnson

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Thanks to everyone for the help on the pattern! Johnny Johnson

This is just funny enough that I’ve got to share it with ya’ll. I’ve long been a collector of road kills, much to the chagrin of both my wife and my oldest son, Michael.  Well, last month, while riding my bicycle to work…. you guessed it– I found a road kill. Well, sort of.  It was a coil that some technician had probably set on top of his car before pulling out of the parking lot.  And, it had been run over a few times.  It was definitely dead! Then, along comes this whole discussion of the original PT pattern. Lo and behold, the coil is just the thing for the wire component of the original PT pattern.  To make it even better, a hunter friend gave me two pheasant hides this year.  I’m tying nymphs for the price of the hook! So, my question is:  Has our sport gotten a little out of hand when the HOOK is over 99% of the cost of a fly?  :^) Tight pants^h^h^h^hlines! Charley

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Speaking of personal variations: For the thorax, I like to dub.  I use a dubbing loop, and stuff a couple of small bunches of selected fur in.  I keep the guard hairs in with the soft underfur.  Then I twist up the loop and wrap.  Then pull the butt ends of the PT over top as a wing case and tie off.  The guard hairs in the dub look like legs/assorted appendages and give the fly a bit more life. Another variation: Don’t put a wing case on.  I.E., tie it "in the round".  This is a philosophical thing.  In the vise, we’re always thinking of the top and bottom of the fly, but this may not be how it will behave in the water.  There is a philosophy that suggests that an upside down nymph is as upsetting to a trout as any other "error" when tying, for example some type of pure "match the hatch" dry fly. Bob Lundy IWFFC Mississauga, ON http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/rlundy/

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Will someone please post the materials list for a Pheasant Tail nymph.  I can’t believe it but my three tying books don’t list the pattern!

Hi Johnny, The Pheasant Tail is included in my fly tying web site. If you’d like, it can be found at… WWW Fly Tyer:    http://www.ns.net/~barnard (this is a non-commercial site)  :-) Look in the category "modern nymph". You will find both a recipe and step-by-step instructions. I hope this helps,    Alan.

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So, my question is:  Has our sport gotten a little out of hand when the HOOK is over 99% of the cost of a fly?  :^)

That’s the way it should be; it’s out of hand when it’s the other way around ! One a similar subject, I regularly donate trout to a friend and he regulary brings me cock pheasant centre tail feathers from his father-in-law’s shoot.  I now have ~150 of the damn things. I’d like to get into dyeing or bleaching them so I have some choice over colour; does anyone have any experience of this please ?  Where do I start ? Thanks in advance Russ

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One a similar subject, I regularly donate trout to a friend and he regulary brings me cock pheasant centre tail feathers from his father-in-law’s shoot.  I now have ~150 of the damn things. I’d like to get into dyeing or bleaching them so I have some choice over colour; does anyone have any experience of this please ?  Where do I start ? Thanks in advance Russ

Well, Russ, it just so happens I know the answer to this because I found it today while researching an article for my fly fishing club newsletter. American Angler ran a five part series of articles called "Modern Dyes and Dyeing for Fly Tiers", by Wm. T. Roubal, from May, ‘94 through Jan, ‘95.  The one on bleaching was the last one, Jan. ‘95. Charley

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Thanks to everyone for the help on the pattern! Johnny Johnson

One other suggestion.  Have had good results using PT tied with greyish-brown dubbing for the thorax instead of peacock herl.  Might even try that with flashabou wing casing.  Whatever way you tie it, the PT just never stops producin!!! g

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One other suggestion.  Have had good results using PT tied with greyish-brown dubbing for the thorax instead of peacock herl.  Might

PT inventor Frank Sawyer also made a similar nymph using grey goose herls (improvised on the spot in N. Sweden, if I remember right). — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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Contact the Dakota Fly Fishers (FFF club) – pres. is Mark Olinger, 701-784-5550

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I will be in Grand Forks, North Dakota in June this year. Are there any good fly fishing opportunities in that part of the country. Thanks

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Question:

 So, again, is there any outfit that sells new/used military Jeep trailers or similar ones here in the states?

I know of a place in Ogden, Utah, just north of Salt Lake where there is huge junkyard.  They have a different area there where you can get all kinds of army trailers, sorry but I don’t remember what the place is called. But you can see it from the freeway on the West side. Joe

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That would be Smith & Edwards Surplus I mentioned in my previous post…. — Scott Weiser ****** "I love the Internet, I no longer have to depend upon my friends, family and co-workers, I can annoy people WORLDWIDE!" ****** The opinions expressed are my own.  If I was a laywer, you’d be paying big bucks for this.  All complaints should be

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Now that I nolonger have the luxury space of my Bronco with the Wrangler; I’m in the market for a new/used military jeep trailer. Does anyone know where I can purchase one? The Army did away with the Jeep trailer when they went to the Hummer, so I know there has to be thousands of them out there somewhere. The local Army/Navy store had some well used ones a couple of years ago and was selling them for $350.00. I suspect with the rust and artic camo paint job that they came from some units in Alaska. So, again, is there any outfit that sells new/used military Jeep trailers or similar ones here in the states? TIA, Dennis 4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4 Dennis Noes, 95 Jeep Wrangler 4.0L SE, Atlanta, GA.,USA UNFWDA-SFWDA Four Wheel Drive Education Awareness Rep. Member of United FWD Assoc., Southern 4WD Assoc., Tread Lightly and Georgia Bounty Runners 4WD Club 4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4

Try No Excuses, Inc. located in New Eygpt, NJ. # 1 800 923 JEEP (5337) or  609 758 3833 This is the best place to go for hard to find parts for Jeeps.

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Dennis, I placed my order for one of the last 4.0L YJ’s last July.  While waiting for the promised October delivery, I faced with the same dilema of where to put my camping goodies along with my wife and kids when the Jeep arrived.   I went looking for a trailer.  Used military trailers, I soon found, are very difficult to come by.  I found a company north of Sacramento (Helter Mfg. or something like that) that makes a very well designed Jeep trailer.  However, the $2400 price sent me back to scouring military surplus lots with little success. In early August, while fly-fishing in Idaho, I stopped for a meal at Smitty’s in Idaho Falls.  After ordering, while waiting for my food, I looked across the parking lot and there was an army surplus store with a 1/4 ton military trailer parked in front. About that time my food came,  I woofed and went over to investigate.  As I walked in to the store, a guy was writing a check for the trailer.  When I asked if any more were available, I was told to call the next day and talk to Dana the owner. To make a long story shorter, Dana had purchased 75 of these M146 trailers from a base in Montana.  All were in very good shape and were priced firm at $450 a piece.  At the time he still had "several" left in his other warehouse in Shelly, ID.  Apparently a Las Vegas 4×4 club had purchased 10 sight-unseen and were on there way up for them later that month.   I purchased a nice brigadier general’s trailer complete with a star on the back and a pintle hitch for another $30.  The trailer was built new in 1967 and still has the origonal rubber.  My biggest problem was adapting the 1 1/4" mini receiver hitch on my minivan to pintle hitch.  With a little engineering and a little help from a friend in Island Park we rigged up the hitch.  I pulled the trailer down to my home in the S.F. Bay area with no problems. My first purchase for my YJ when it finally arrived in mid November was a Tomken Machine bumper with a 2 inch receiver.  It is a well engineered bumper.  The trailer pulls great and I am in the process of completing some minor body work and giving it a paint job.  They are a well engineered trailer with a parking brake and the full pivet pintle eye.  I have been told that the springs, shocks and hubs are all interchangable with an M38A1, but I have not been able to confirm that.  I can confirm that I still get 20 mpg pulling it behind my Grand Caravan. I was back in Idaho Falls in early October.  Four trailers were parked in front.  I can’t remember the name of the surplus store, but I imagine that a call to Smitty’s Pancake house would get you their number.   It’s a long way from Georgia, but good luck. Bill

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Sorry if this is redeudant. I missed the ezrlier part of this thread. I can lead you to scads of 1/4 ton military jeep trailers. I got one myself with a surge break system (!) for the excellent price of $400. Best place to find dealers is Military Vehicles Magazine. See my earlier and I’ll send you the detalis on the mag and maybe a few dealer names. I am kicking myself for not jumping on a 3/4 ton with surge brakes for $850 a few months back, but storage and ready cash were a bit of a problem then. These things are dynamite-like having a pickup truck at your disposal with no holding costs and very minimal maintenence costs. Oh well, maybe in the future.

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By the way, I paid $325 for the trailer and $20 for a brand new spare tire on a rim at DRMO.

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Check with any local Air Force or Army base and ask for information on DRMO. They’ll know what your talking about. I bought mine up here in Alaska. I’m in the AF and this is where me and my friends got ours along with spare tires for the trailers. I’ve had mine for two years now and it’s still in good shape. It was made in 1964 and has a little rust but it’s only on the surface, it can be sanded off easily. They are excellent for towing off-road or on the highway. I can hardly tell that it’s behind me.

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Now that I nolonger have the luxury space of my Bronco with the Wrangler; I’m in the market for a new/used military jeep trailer. Does anyone know where I can purchase one?  The Army did away with the Jeep trailer when they went to the Hummer, so I know there has to be thousands of them out there somewhere. The local Army/Navy store had some well used ones a couple of years ago and was selling them for $350.00. I suspect with the rust and artic camo paint job that they came from some units in Alaska.  So, again, is there any outfit that sells new/used military Jeep trailers or similar ones here in the states?  TIA,  Dennis 4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4  Dennis Noes, 95 Jeep Wrangler 4.0L SE, Atlanta, GA.,USA  UNFWDA-SFWDA Four Wheel Drive Education Awareness Rep.  Member of United FWD Assoc., Southern 4WD Assoc.,  Tread Lightly and Georgia Bounty Runners 4WD Club 4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4×4x4

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So, again, is there any outfit that sells new/used military Jeep trailers or similar ones here in the states? TIA,

Dennis Hopefully some of these places may be able to help, check out our new Military Vehicle Digest as it develops online: http://www.4×44u.com/pub/k2/mvd/mvd.htm PS – Dennis, we’ve wanted one of those ourselves! Antelope Valley Equipment and Truck Parts 44532 Trevor Lancaster, CA 93534 (805) 945-6788 Sarafan Auto Supply 23 North Madison Ave. Springvalley, NY 10977 (914) 356-1080 Ordinance Unlimited 20945 Osborne St. Canoga Park, CA 91304 (818) 700-2905 Thomas W. Murry Box 214 Dover, DE  19903 (302) 736-1790 Brentmullins Jeep Parts PO Box 9599 College Station, TX 77842 (409) 690-0203 Frank’s Surplus PO Box 555 Bryn Athyn, PA 19009 (215) 947-5616 Military Vehicle Locator Service PO Box 1562 Fort Collins, CO 80522 (303) 221-4920 fax/phone Rapco Parts Co. (817) 872-2403 All American Military Goods 726 West Michigan PO Box 143 New Carlisle, IN  46552 (219) 654-8081 Army Jeep Parts PO Box 1006 Bristol, PA 19007 (215) 788-6012

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Try: U.S. Surplus Expediters PO Box 158 1000 East 1700 South Clearfield, UT  84015-0158 801-825-3489 They have numerous M-101 1/4 Ton trailers, some better than others, a couple were pretty cherry with little or no rust.  They also have some M-105 trailers, the larger ones with 110"x 83" ID on box, used with the deuce & 1/2, which have 9.00 x 20" Budd wheels, good for HUMMERs with a bit of lowering to get the pintle to match up and a new axle with electric brakes. Tell them I referred you. Also: Smith & Edwards Surplus 3936 N. Hiway 126 Ogden, UT 84404 801-731-1120 They have *acres* of trailers and old military surplus. Don’t buy one sight unseen unless you are willing to put up with rust, body damage, etc. and repair it.  Insist on pictures and serial number verification.  Better yet, grab a plane to Salt Lake and inspect it yourself, or hire me to go out and broker for you.  If you are *really* interested, let me know e-mail *this weekend*, as I am going out to Salt Lake on Sunday the 7th. I’m sure we can work something out as far as inspecting/brokering/shipping. Don’t know where you can get the even smaller M-100, which is the genuine "Jeep" trailer, but if you have an immediate need, I can check with a couple of sources.  The key is how much you are willing to pay, how fast you can jump on the deal, and how much you trust the dealer.   I got an absolutely cherry M-105 rebuilt and repainted in 1989 with *no* rust for $450, was quoted $450-650 on M-101’s, and once paid $2000 for an M-101 with HMMWV hubs and a hydraulic surge brake.  As you can see, quite a variance. Regards, — Scott Weiser P.S.  *Always* insist on proper title paperwork, with the proper signatures of the original purchaser at the government auction and the proper chain of title for each owner after. I bought a trailer with the "original" DRMO paperwork from a guy in California, only to find that the DRMO listed someone else, a guy in Utah for which my guy was selling the trailer, as the "owner of record", and Colorado refused to title the trailer, citing the "shadow ownership" as title fraud, a felony. I had to send the paperwork back to the guy I bought it from, pay sales tax in California (twice what I would have paid here), and pay for California plates and registration which I never used, all to get a valid California title which Colorado would accept when applying for re-titling in Colorado.  Cost me about $200 extra. Some states are not as rigid, but you’d better check *first* to see what you need in the way of title papers for an out-of-state purchase of surplus government vehicles.  Make proper titling part of the *written* sales agreement, so you have an out if you can’t get it titled for some reason. ****** "I love the Internet, I no longer have to depend upon my friends, family and co-workers, I can annoy people WORLDWIDE!" ****** The opinions expressed are my own.  If I was a laywer, you’d be paying big bucks for this.  All complaints should be

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Question:

I’d like to apologize to Mark for flaming him.  That was not my intent!  My intent was to poke a little fun at elitist dry fly fishermen who look down on nymphing.  BTW my perferred method of fishing is with a dry fly or emerger, but only when it is effective, most of the time it’s just not as effective as nymphing.  IMO nymphing in many ways is more challenging than dry fly fishing.   For example dead drift is every bit as important to nymphing as with a dry fly presentation but tougher due to the differential current speeds from surface to stream bottom.

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Keywords: I got  e-mail in response to a previous post  and I thought I’d share it with the group. Mark Writes in response to my post below: For nymphs fished dead drift I always use long leaders, indicators and lead. when you say "indicators", are you referring to "bobbers"? i.e. Little things that float around and bounce up and down when a fish bites.                           Mark

Yes Mark that’s exactly what I mean and with no apologies.  Except for sight nymphing where you can see both the fish and the nymph at the same time, its almost impossible to see the take by watching your line (another little thing that floats around and bounces up and down when a fish bites).   Even with an indicator experienced fisheman miss at least 50% of the takes.  This experience comes from years of fishing to sighted fish with partners, where one partner spots for the other.   Frequently, when I’m up on a bank with a good angle, I’ve watched the trout we’re hunting inhale the nymph with no movement in the line leader or indicator.  A nymphing trout’s take is very subtle.  They suck the nymph and almost as quickly blow it back out again if you don’t set the hook. So Mark if you can’t stomache using a bobber or indicator, then just sit back and continue to be   self satisfied catching only the trout dumb enough to hook themselves (Usually the smaller ones who have to dart in from the side.), then by all means continue.   I’ll just have to take my satisfaction from success on the water, knowing deep down inside that somehow I’m just not the fisherman I could be if I could only loose my dependence on those bobbers! Just in case anyone out there thinks I’m serious.  I don’t know a single nymph fisherman, whose opinion I respect, who doesn’t use indicators ( that includes Andre Puyans, Mike Lawson, Lamb, etc.).  I vary the type of indicator to the conditions I’m fishing.   In fast water I use Marks bobbers to set the depth of float as much as anything.  In fast water the line drag usually sets the hook sets the hook before you’ll see the indicator move or pause.  In glass smooth gin clear water I use either a little silicon on the leader or a small tuft of yarn.  But what the heck it’s all bobber fishing right Mark.

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