Question:

Freezing cold and heavy snowfall. My feet were slowly going numb, and my fingers had long since turned blue with the cold. The old trick of plunging them into the freezing water to increase the circulation, and thus warm them up, had worked as usual, but the effects had long since worn off and I was really cold now. Neoprene gloves with fold back finger and thumb were little use, and so I removed them.Visibility was low because of the fairly dense snowfall, and the footing was treacherous over the rocks. Memories of my last fall in this spot on a day trip the previous  year, when I crashed heavily onto a rock with my right knee, and had to more or less crawl to the car being unable to walk, came to mind, and made me even more careful than usual.  Without the cushioning of the 5mm neoprene my kneecap would surely have been badly damaged, as it was it brought tears to my eyes, and my knee was swollen and all the colours of the rainbow for weeks. Digging my ski pole in carefully at every step I kept moving, staying at the waters edge, and only wading when absolutely necessary, to negotiate large boulders and the like. falling into this water would likely prove fatal very quickly, should I be stupid or careless enough to do so. The wind had dropped somewhat, to about a howling gale, and the rapidly swirling snow flakes stuck to my clothing and covered my head and shoulders, freezing to my spectacles and forcing me to shake my head occasionally to stop too large a build-up. Clammy cold damp reached through my neoprenes and made me shiver occasionally.  Very heavy overcast coupled with the snowstorm had turned the day very dark. I had started to fish just before  dawn, and had made my way slowly along three miles or so of the rocky coastline stopping to cast every ten feet or so, using main force to try and reach out as far as possible into the murk, lingering a little longer at some places which had proved successful in the past. Result ? nothing. Checking the watch on the lanyard in my top pocket, told me it was eleven thirty, and I had told my wife I would probably be back to the chalet for lunch, she had declined to accompany me, and decided to stay in the chalet with a good book instead.  Sensible person my wife. Just another hundred meters or so I thought, and then I will turn for home,  the group of large rocks at the headland is usually the best place anyway, as the sea-bed dips away into a deep channel quite close to shore. Takes come as the fly comes up over the lip of the channel where a large band of weed lines the shore, mostly cod, but occasionally a good seatrout, the lip of the channel is only about sixty feet from shore, and a good flat powerful cast should reach it, even in this wind.  Overwintering seatrout are often large, in excellent condition, and sometimes fight like fury, many maintain they taste better than any other fish bar none. Largish cod are not to be sniffed at either though, they fight much more doggedly than a seatrout, but are still exciting, and a five or even ten pounder on light gear is an experience not soon forgotten. Several such fish had fallen to my rod at this spot the previous year under similar conditions. Conventional gear was useless, and I had long since taken the fly reel and line off the rod, in fact within the first twenty minutes, and was using a casting float and fixed spool reel. Even with this rig it was hardly possible to cast more than fifty feet or so into the teeth of the wind. A slow sinking sliding float of thirty grams, a nine foot leader, and a shrimp fly had brought nothing as yet, not as much as a nibble.  I decided to change flies, and put on a much darker version of the shrimp fly, with a touch of red in the tail. The normally peaceful Baltic was crashing into the shore with unusual force, white horses whirling and dancing on the wave tops as far as it was possible to see, and although the water cleared quickly after every breaker, allowing one to see the bottom fairly well close in, I fancied something with a darker silhouette might do the trick, although my hopes of catching anything at all had diminished considerably. As usual I dangled the fly in the water in front of me, waiting for a break in the surf, allowing the float to settle slowly and then moving it to check the action of the fly more or less at my feet.  A small crab appeared as if from nowhere on the blank patch of sand,and seemed to want to grab the fly, scuttling after it and attempting to settle on it, and fascinated by this, I pulled the fly along slowly, just to see if the crab would be able to grab it.  Intent on this, I failed to notice the next breaker coming in and temporarily lost sight of the crab and fly, as the breaker stirred up sand colouring the water. A sudden jerk and my float shooting away along the shore at a rate of knots very nearly frightened me to death, the rod was almost jerked from my hand, and the drag on my reel started to whine unpleasantly, and I was absolutely flabbergasted. I did not strike or anything at all, in fact for quite a while I just stood there with the rod pointing straight along the shore, while the line cut into my index finger almost to the bone and the drag continued to whine. After what seemed like an age I finally had enough presence of mind to take my finger away from the line, and hit the fighting drag lever on the reel, the drag which was giving off what I hoped was just steam, slowed to a rather more leisurely rate, and eventually stopped. Everything went slack, and rather annoyed with myself. but still more surprised than anything else, I started to reel in.  Must have been one hell of a fish that, I thought, reeling in at moderate speed, you bloody idiot, fancy losing a fish like that, I cursed myself, and then everything went tight again ! Bloody hell, hung up as well !   Then the "snag" started moving again. After about ten minutes of pumping, a few peculiarly powerful long, and some short dogged runs, which were most unlike any fight I had experienced before, and during which all sorts of ideas of monster seatrout and salmon went through my mind, and more pumping, I finally saw the fish, a large cod foul hooked in the dorsal fin !  Too large to risk beaching it, I unslung my net and landed it knee deep in the surf, in considerable danger of being swept off my feet by the breakers. I despatched the fish, which coughed up a fair number of small crabs, and after weighing it laid it on a large rock behind me. Just over eleven pounds showed on my scale which is fairly accurate.  Oh well, I thought, not exactly the fine English art of fly angling, but a nice fish anyway, and inspected my leader and fly for signs of chafing or other damage.  Getting ready for another Herculean cast into the teeth of the wind, I suddenly thought better of it, and just swung the float and fly about ten feet from shore, letting the fly be pulled along by the float and tumbling in the surf.  Bang !  it had not gone three yards when the float shot away again, and after a much shorter battle a nice plump six pound cod  joined its mate on the rock behind me.  Six casts and six fish followed in fairly quick succession. Sweating now, all thoughts of cold forgotten, I decided on "just one more cast" before packing up.  I had over forty pounds of fish to clean and pack back to the chalet, and that was more than enough for our freezer requirements for this year. The sky had lightened up somewhat, and the snow had stopped falling, visibility was steadily increasing, and although the wind had dropped somewhat the spray was still lashing in with force, occasionally giving me a good soaking, my face was numb, and all attempts to dry my hands on the towel from my bag failed miserably as it was already soaking wet.  Plunging my hands into the icy water one more time, and hoping for the best, I changed my chafed leader with no little difficulty, tied on a new fly of the same type and size, a rather brown "Baltic woolly", with a touch of red in the tail, a type of woolly bugger which is a very good shrimp imitation, and might just conceivably be mistaken for a crab, and decided to try reaching the lip of the channel. A forceful whirling side cast using all the power of the thirteen foot one and a half pound test carp rod, keeping the trajectory as flat as possible, ended abruptly, as the float struck the water about thirty feet out, my numb fingers had caused me to mistimed the release.  Relatively slight tangles formed as the wind caught the line and blew it off the reel spool.  This was soon sorted and I took up tension on the line prior to retrieving fairly fast for another try.  Wham !  an almighty jerk on the end of the line bent the rod well over, and the drag started whining immediately as the fish headed straight for the deep water channel.  Just as well, if it dived for the weeds  it would be gone.  This was no foul hooked cod, but obviously a decent seatrout, and as if to confirm my observations it leapt from the water about a hundred  feet away, coming down with a large splash which could be heard even over the sound of wind and waves.  A very nice fish indeed, which must be kept out of the weeds at all costs. I loosened the drag lever somewhat, seatrout often come off if forced too hard, and  settled down to the fight. Several long screaming runs followed by spectacular leaps followed, with the fish coming ever closer to the weed bank lining the shore. The trick at this location is to tire the fish out as much as possible in the clear water beyond the weed banks, before bringing it in. This is however often much easier said than done. This was a very powerful fish, and was still showing little sign of tiring, I loosened the drag a little more, hoping that the hookhold would not fail due to the prolonged fight, and awaited developments. Several more runs and leaps followed.and then head shaking and short deep bursts of speed toward the bottom … read more »

Response:

Mike, you are clearly an ignoramus when it comes to cod. Cod fillet (those gorgeous, toothsome white flakes) battered and deep fried in beef dripping, with chips, is one of the great Epicurean experiences of the world. It is a meal redolent of the the cool open air after the cinema or pub. It evokes memories of young love; of soft-sweatered pulchritude and youthful vigour. Ah, the smell of it; the tang of malt vinegar and coarse salt…

Stop it, you’re making me hungry! I knew that cod tasted good. I knew that the flesh was white and flaky. I just thought that they were a little ugly and lived in deep and really cold water. (I mean, you have to admit that they don’t have the sleek predatory good looks of a spotted bass, or the colors of a spawning rainbow, and I didn’t think fish were supposed to have beards…) Besides, the inland US doesn’t have much cod, but have you ever hooked into a bigmouth bass? That’s a ride you won’t soon forget. "My father said to be strong, ‘that a good man could  never do wrong’ in a dream I had last night in America"                             -Los Lobos

Response:

Stop it Tony, you unleash guttural powers you don’t want to know about. Is it hereby concluded that you’ll take care of lunch at the Flyfair? Drooling on my keyboard, Herman Mike, you are clearly an ignoramus when it comes to cod. Cod fillet (those gorgeous, toothsome white flakes) battered and deep fried in beef dripping, with chips, is one of the great Epicurean experiences of the world. It is a meal redolent of the the cool open air after the cinema or pub. It evokes memories of young love; of soft-sweatered pulchritude and youthful vigour. Ah, the smell of it; the tang of malt vinegar and coarse salt… Suggest you read: ‘Cod – The Biography of the Fish that Changed the World’, by Mark Kurlansky and published (1997) in the US by Walker Publishing Co. Inc. ISBN 0-224-05104-0. It’s a very interesting book, though perhaps a rather surprising ‘best seller’. Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

– Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

Stop it Tony, you unleash guttural powers you don’t want to know about. Is it hereby concluded that you’ll take care of lunch at the Flyfair? Drooling on my keyboard, Herman

I’ll stand you and Mike Connor a lunch Herman, but sadly I don’t think it will be cod. My car is only a little one and I fear my other passengers might object if I came over loaded up with cod, potatoes and deep fryer, etc.! By a strange coincidence, they were talking about cod on BBC Radio 4 today. The price has rocketed as stocks have declined. There was even an interview with Mark Kurlansky (who wrote the book) over in New York. We are very lucky as we have an excellent fish n’ chip shop in Tunbridge Wells, our nearest big town. It regularly wins the prize for the best in the south east of England. My wife just e-mailed to ask: ‘What’s for dinner tonight?’ Problem solved! I’m looking forward to Fly Fair. Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

Response:

Herman’s post on Cod is a new one for me. How about in the US, on the Pacific Coast, are folks fishing the shallows at nite for young Cod? Id like to try that. Anyone know more per the PNW coast? Dave

There’s a fish they catch here in Northern California (not on the fly) called a "ling cod". It’s about the scariest looking thing I’ve ever seen. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

There’s a fish they catch here in Northern California (not on the fly) called a "ling cod". It’s about the scariest looking thing I’ve ever seen.

It’s related to the scorpionfishes and rock cod.  Like the rock cod, the ling is not a cod. If I remember correctly it doesn’t suffer from decompression as you haul it up from the depths of the ocean.  It fights you all the way.  Cab grow to 5 feet. http://www.psmfc.org/habitat/edu_lingcod_fact.html Mu

Response:

By "Cod," do you mean _Gadus morhua_? Big ugly thing with pasty white flesh and three dorsal fins? I always thought that they were a fish for deep and frigid water, but it wouldn’t be the first time today that I was wrong about something.

Mike, you are clearly an ignoramus when it comes to cod. Cod fillet (those gorgeous, toothsome white flakes) battered and deep fried in beef dripping, with chips, is one of the great Epicurean experiences of the world. It is a meal redolent of the the cool open air after the cinema or pub. It evokes memories of young love; of soft-sweatered pulchritude and youthful vigour. Ah, the smell of it; the tang of malt vinegar and coarse salt… Suggest you read: ‘Cod – The Biography of the Fish that Changed the World’, by Mark Kurlansky and published (1997) in the US by Walker Publishing Co. Inc. ISBN 0-224-05104-0. It’s a very interesting book, though perhaps a rather surprising ‘best seller’. Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

Response:

[snipped excellent report] … Brrrr … Thanks, Steve — "Experience must be the teacher in this game – not only your own  but the other man’s" – Dick Wigram http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/SIEACCIDENTALLYSPLATTEREDBACKONEDAY

Response:

Mike, I’ll call/mail you as soon as I can arrange some days off! And, judging from your post, I’ll pack my old carp rod as well.. Cheers, Herman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I go fairly regularly Herman, any time you fancy a trip ( couple of days if you like ), just drop me a mail and we can arrange it.  I can be at a number of good places on the Danish coast within three hours from where I live, so can also do day-trips etc without any problem.  At this time of year, and earlier, a good seatrout is not a common occurrence, but it does happen. Cod are mostly caught, depending on weather etc, some big ones.  The herring will be in soon, and both cod and seatrout hunt these shoals, and you can have excellent sport then. You can catch plenty of herring on the fly as well if you are so inclined.  The trip report is perfectly true by the way, but I must admit that it was my best trip this year. I caught quite a lot less on other trips, in fact actually blanking once, and though this is rare, it does happen.  I know a few people who have fished for two years or more without catching one single seatrout. I must be lucky, I have caught quite a few, some large ones as well. TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de An even bigger wonder is that one doesn’t even care any more. True or

– Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

Cod are mostly caught, depending on weather etc, some big ones.

By "Cod," do you mean _Gadus morhua_? Big ugly thing with pasty white flesh and three dorsal fins? I always thought that they were a fish for deep and frigid water, but it wouldn’t be the first time today that I was wrong about something. "My father said to be strong, ‘that a good man could  never do wrong’ in a dream I had last night in America"                             -Los Lobos

Response:

Not sure about the latin, but big, ugly and, don’t forget, _tasty_ sort of describes it. The big boys and girls are normally caught in deep water, but the kids play and hunt in the shallows, especially at night. Feeding on shrimps, crabs and other edible critters, they can turn an otherwise fishless seatrout fishing night into a ball. Those kids are already big strong fish, by the way.. and did I mention _very_ good to eat yet? <g Herman By "Cod," do you mean _Gadus morhua_? Big ugly thing with pasty white flesh and three dorsal fins? I always thought that they were a fish for deep and frigid water, but it wouldn’t be the first time today that I was wrong about something. "My father said to be strong, ‘that a good man could  never do wrong’ in a dream I had last night in America"                             -Los Lobos

– Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

Herman’s post on Cod is a new one for me. How about in the US, on the Pacific Coast, are folks fishing the shallows at nite for young Cod? Id like to try that. Anyone know more per the PNW coast? Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Not sure about the latin, but big, ugly and, don’t forget, _tasty_ sort of describes it. The big boys and girls are normally caught in deep water, but the kids play and hunt in the shallows, especially at night. Feeding on shrimps, crabs and other edible critters, they can turn an otherwise fishless seatrout fishing night into a ball. Those kids are already big strong fish, by the way.. and did I mention _very_ good to eat yet? <g Herman By "Cod," do you mean _Gadus morhua_? Big ugly thing with pasty white flesh and three dorsal fins? I always thought that they were a fish for deep and frigid water, but it wouldn’t be the first time today that I was wrong about something. "My father said to be strong, ‘that a good man could  never do wrong’ in a dream I had last night in America"                             -Los Lobos — Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

Correct.  In the Baltic and some other places ( English North sea and similar), these fish come in close to forage, especially on crustaceans and herring. Fairly large fish may be caught in relatively shallow water. They will even "rise" to flies fished on the surface,especially at twilight, at night , or on heavily overcast days.  My best fish to date from the shore was thirty one pounds, but I got that one on a pirk, not on a fly. My best fly caught fish was about twenty pounds, but I don’t know exactly as it was not weighed.  These fish are game fighters, excellent to eat, (especially smoked with my secret recipe ! ), and although completely unlike trout can be very attractive indeed. Their markings and behaviour depend to a considerable extent on the areas they frequent. TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

Response:

Looking forward to hearing from you Herman. You can stay at my place no problem.  Definitely bring the carp rod. I have enough other gear for you to use if you need anything else. TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

Response:

Not sure about the latin, but big, ugly and, don’t forget, _tasty_ sort of describes it.

Flaky white flesh, pretty durned good smoked? That’s the very one. Cod are definitely yummy. If only there were enough that they weren’t a special order here. The closest that we have in the inland US are Burbot, and they’re just not the same. Of course, we do have the various black basses, so we’re all happy "My father said to be strong, ‘that a good man could  never do wrong’ in a dream I had last night in America"                             -Los Lobos

Response:

Freezing cold and heavy snowfall. My feet were slowly going numb, and my fingers had long since turned blue with the cold. The old trick of plunging them into the freezing water to increase the circulation, and thus warm them up, had worked as usual, but the effects had long since worn off and I was really cold now. Neoprene gloves with fold back finger and thumb were little use, and so I removed them.Visibility was low because of the fairly dense snowfall, and the footing was treacherous over the rocks.

(great report snipped)         the wonder of very well written prose is that one has substantial difficulty in separating truth from fiction.  well done, pommy. wayno

Response:

An even bigger wonder is that one doesn’t even care any more. True or not (possibly true, the weather description was familiar!), thanks Mike! I’m quite sure the temperature dropped five degress while I was reading this report. Next time when you go, could you make some room for a Dutchman? I can take my own rum.. Cheers, Herman (great report snipped, indeed!)         the wonder of very well written prose is that one has substantial difficulty in separating truth from fiction.  well done, pommy. wayno

– Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

I go fairly regularly Herman, any time you fancy a trip ( couple of days if you like ), just drop me a mail and we can arrange it.  I can be at a number of good places on the Danish coast within three hours from where I live, so can also do day-trips etc without any problem.  At this time of year, and earlier, a good seatrout is not a common occurrence, but it does happen. Cod are mostly caught, depending on weather etc, some big ones.  The herring will be in soon, and both cod and seatrout hunt these shoals, and you can have excellent sport then. You can catch plenty of herring on the fly as well if you are so inclined.  The trip report is perfectly true by the way, but I must admit that it was my best trip this year. I caught quite a lot less on other trips, in fact actually blanking once, and though this is rare, it does happen.  I know a few people who have fished for two years or more without catching one single seatrout. I must be lucky, I have caught quite a few, some large ones as well. TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – An even bigger wonder is that one doesn’t even care any more. True or

Response:

Question:

Anyone able to help out here with there experiences,I currently use SA xps WF7 on this rod and find it not a problem at all . Any body else experienced this. I feel the rod acts more like 7wt not 5 wt…..

You may be right.  I also use SA xps, but a DT5 in gray.  A stealthier approach for me. The rod has both grace and power.  I just love fishing it. Regards, jacknoir

Response:

I have a 590SP.  I use a 6wt. Orvis Wonderline and it works great! Good luck, Forrest — Forrest http://www.FlyFishingREVIEW.com FlyFishingREVIEW.com Before you buy.

Response:

I am interested in your use of a DT on your SP590.  Sounds like the two lines (the DT5 and tyhe WF7) cover a pretty wide range of situations with the same rod.  Like fishing a bigassed river one day, and a little meadow crawler the next., with the same rod. Is that what you are after? Sage touts the "reserve power" bit on the SPs. Does the overlining kick it in? Ill have to try it. Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone able to help out here with there experiences,I currently use SA xps WF7 on this rod and find it not a problem at all . Any body else experienced this. I feel the rod acts more like 7wt not 5 wt….. You may be right.  I also use SA xps, but a DT5 in gray.  A stealthier approach for me. The rod has both grace and power.  I just love fishing it. Regards, jacknoir

Response:

Most good quality rods will handle several line sizes.  The size recommended by the maker is usually that size that most people would find works well under most conditions…and allows the rod to properly load at normal fishing distances…and for the designated action of the rod to come into play.  Most flyfishers have their own casting styles and fishing situations that are unique to them….and, as a consequence, tend to prefer certain actions on the rods with which they fish.  So…it’s not unusual to find flyfishers that will find a different weight line working better for them on a selected rod when that line weight is different than the recommended weight.  And, it is not unusual to find that fisherman disagree on the best line weight for a particular rod.  Also factoring in the type of fishing and the distance of your normal casts, affects what line is "best" for a particular rod.  Many flyfishers, myself included, tend to use several line weights on a rod….depending on the fishing situation at hand.  However, on the Sage LL rods, I pretty much stick to the manufacturers suggested weights as they work best for me…and I don’t like a much slower rod than the LL Sage…so I don’t overline it.  Now…the SPplus Sage is another matter…and I have overlined it by one and even two sizes at times….ditto on the RPLplus.  I recall a disagreement that I once had with the Harry Wilson (from Scott Rods a number of years ago) regarding a ten weight Scott that I bought.  I could put a thirteen weight on that rod and still feel that it was underlined.  Harry and I argued about that rod for a long time. I ended up returning it.  In retrospect, my casting style and the action that I wanted to bring out in the rod were vastly different than Harry’s. So…we were both right in the sense that we knew what worked best for us as individuals. Barry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone able to help out here with there experiences,I currently use SA xps WF7 on this rod and find it not a problem at all . Any body else experienced this. I feel the rod acts more like 7wt not 5 wt….. You may be right.  I also use SA xps, but a DT5 in gray.  A stealthier approach for me. The rod has both grace and power.  I just love fishing it. Regards, jacknoir

Response:

Also, while learning to fly cast or for those who never learn, many will overline their rods a few sizes. There are some rods that are so stiff and powerful that they must be overlined for everyone.

If this is intended to say that experienced casters don’t like to go up a line weight, then I’ll disagree. I’ve read that Joan Wulff says she routinely goes up a line weight. I fish a Winston IM6 4 weight with 6 weight line in situations where I have to make longer roll casts or cope with some wind. It handles the heavier line with aplomb. Yes, aplomb. I’ve never been in a situation where it couldn’t handle the amount of line I was trying to cast (which is probably a max of 60 feet). Rick

Response:

Anyone able to help out here with there experiences,I currently use SA xps WF7 on this rod and find it not a problem at all . Any body else experienced this. I feel the rod acts more like 7wt not 5 wt…..

Response:

Anyone able to help out here with there experiences,I currently use SA xps WF7 on this rod and find it not a problem at all . Any body else experienced this. I feel the rod acts more like 7wt not 5 wt…..

Hi All, I have seen this situation for many years. We all have a different casting strokes or styles. Some of us are high speed, tip casters and some, like this gentleman, have a slow stroke where he loads the rod way down into the butt. This is nothing new. I use a weight forward 5 floating line on that rod and it works fine for me. some of my fishing partners would use a #6 line. Not too many would use a #7 line.  I think a #7 line would start to over load that rod at 50+ feet. Also, while learning to fly cast or for those who never learn, many will overline their rods a few sizes. There are some rods that are so stiff and powerful that they must be overlined for everyone. PS: I might be wrong, but I think that the largest XPS is a #6????? Maybe it is a new GPX or maybe I am wrong?

Response:

Question:

Am planning a family trip to Oahu and keep wondering if I should take along a saltwater outfit. Haven’t been able to find out anything about the practicality of doing so. (Although I know that in some places they do some blue water flyfishing.) Anyway, I would appreciate any info. — Larry

Response:

Hi Larry, Fishing around Oahu is bad.  We have too many fishermen and not enough fish.  This morning’s paper summed it up:

Question:

… A good caster can get a good presentation with any good rod.

I’ll second that thought!  At $10/hour that extra $200 could have been spent fishing for 3 days.  This has the side benefit that after three days of fishing they would probably be a better caster. MikeH

Response:

Anne,         I feel more of a difference (which is to say so little that I think it’ just because I know the rod is a multi-piece rather than a 2 piece)between 2piece rods than 3,4, or 6 piece rods.  Also, in my experience that a rod tube of about 36" in length or shorter, straps very easily to the side of my backpack and I only notice it when I sit down or bushwhack with the pack on. Bob – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do any of you find a great difference in action between the 3 piece and 4 piece? I hope to be buying my first rod soon and would like other opinions on this rather than just the salesman’s.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anne, I feel more of a difference (which is to say so little that I think it’ just because I know the rod is a multi-piece rather than a 2 piece)between 2piece rods than 3,4, or 6 piece rods.  Also, in my experience that a rod tube of about 36" in length or shorter, straps very easily to the side of my backpack and I only notice it when I sit down or bushwhack with the pack on. Do any of you find a great difference in action between the 3 piece and 4 piece? I hope to be buying my first rod soon and would like other opinions on this rather than just the salesman’s. I never had a problem with a 2-piece rod strapped to the side of my backpack. And I trekked it all over the Sierras.  Of course that’s pretty easy hiking.

If you’ve a nice open trail, I would agree, but I’ve taken my 2-piece and 4-piece backpacking.  The 4-piece is about the same size as the pack, therefore if it doesn’t hit your pack, it doesn’t hit your rod.  The two piece tends to stick out like a flagpole.  Go under anything and you can be sure you’ll bang into it.  After nearly taking a tumble into the Gorge (I would have hit I-84 first I won’t backpack with anything less than a 4-piece. My $0.02,      - Ken — Ken Janik Oregon State University Dept of Electrical and Computer Engineering

Response:

Our customers in Sacramento, CA have been buying more 3, 4 and now 5 piece rods every year. The multi piece rods cast some much better today than they did 20 to 30 years ago. Nine foot, three piece rods are the hottest thing going in northern California. We have around a hundred different 3, 4 and 5 piece rods to choose from in our store. We do stock about 200 different two piece fly rods as they are still very popular. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Our customers in Sacramento, CA have been buying more 3, 4 and now 5 piece rods every year. The multi piece rods cast some much better today than they did 20 to 30 years ago. Nine foot, three piece rods are the hottest thing going in northern California. We have around a hundred different 3, 4 and 5 piece rods to choose from in our store. We do stock about 200 different two piece fly rods as they are still very popular. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

I think what Bill wants to say that there is basically no difference in performance between good 2 piece vs 3/4/5 piece rods. They might feel slightly different but I think that’s mor because you know it than you really feel it. I see *NO* reason to but a 2 piece today, the convenience and safety when packing, driving, flying, hiking etc. is unbeatable. Thomas — Thomas Urbig

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anne, I feel more of a difference (which is to say so little that I think it’ just because I know the rod is a multi-piece rather than a 2 piece)between 2piece rods than 3,4, or 6 piece rods.  Also, in my experience that a rod tube of about 36" in length or shorter, straps very easily to the side of my backpack and I only notice it when I sit down or bushwhack with the pack on. Do any of you find a great difference in action between the 3 piece and 4 piece? I hope to be buying my first rod soon and would like other opinions on this rather than just the salesman’s. I never had a problem with a 2-piece rod strapped to the side of my backpack. And I trekked it all over the Sierras.  Of course that’s pretty easy hiking.

Having also done quite a bit of hiking in the Sierra with a flyrod I have found that a sturdy flyrod tube also makes a decent walking staff.  I’ve found that I would generally prefer to carry the rod in a tube by hand instead of of strapping to a pack.  There have been a couple of occasions where I’ve slipped on some shale or a slick section along a streambed and I’ve just tossed the rod somewhere "safe" as I was going down. John Fereira

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There is a much wider choice of 4-piece than 3-piece. I have tried Loomis IMX 4-t. in 2- and 4-piece. Tremendous difference in feeling(4-piece feels much heavier) but casting length did not differ much. Then I tried Scott STS. It was practically impossible to distinguish between 2-piece and 4-piece. I do not think there is a general answer to your question. It depends on brand an model. You  m u s t  try before you buy! Regards Jan Erik Frithjofsen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Let us not forget that a four piece rod can be broken down into two equal lengths for a quick bush walk to the next hole. Do any of you find a great difference in action between the 3 piece and 4 piece? I hope to be buying my first rod soon and would like other opinions on this rather than just the salesman’s.

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Let us not forget that a four piece rod can be broken down into two equal lengths for a quick bush walk to the next hole.

Do any of you find a great difference in action between the 3 piece and 4 piece? I hope to be buying my first rod soon and would like other opinions on this rather than just the salesman’s.

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Let us not forget that a four piece rod can be broken down into two equal lengths for a quick bush walk to the next hole. Do any of you find a great difference in action between the 3 piece and 4 piece? I hope to be buying my first rod soon and would like other opinions on this rather than just the salesman’s.

I use  two piece rods in a rod case stiff enough to double as a walking stick. I’ve never been in a situation where I needed to break a rod down into shorter pieces. . . Maybe if you’re hiking over the course of a week or so, and getting into desolate country where you just don’t want to be carrying a rod in hand. But I’ve always been fine with carrying a rod to go fishing. . . two pieces have a much nicer action than three or four. I suggest a mid priced rod –in the $90 – $100 range until you can explain to the salesperson what it is you need and why. For trout, a medium fast action, nine feet, in a five or six weight. A good basic rod –in two pieces. BTW I have an eight foot in 3 – 4 wt. a nine foot in 6 wt. for trout, and a nine in 8 wt. for steelhead. All good quality graphite, all about $100. And I’ve been doing this fly fishing stuff for about three decades now, love pulling the fish out of the holding area just thrashed by the guy with the $300 Sage without a single rise. A good caster can get a good presentation with any good rod. A good rod won’t help a poor caster make a good presentation.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I never had a problem with a 2-piece rod strapped to the side of my backpack. And I trekked it all over the Sierras.  Of course that’s pretty easy hiking. If you’ve a nice open trail, I would agree, but I’ve taken my 2-piece and 4-piece backpacking.  The 4-piece is about the same size as the pack, therefore if it doesn’t hit your pack, it doesn’t hit your rod.  The two piece tends to stick out like a flagpole.  Go under anything and you can be sure you’ll bang into it.  

That’s what I meant by easy hiking.  Open trails and scaling rock walls, no ducking under things.  But yeah, it is like a flagpole.  But a nice place to hang a sweaty bandana. -Burton — L. Burton Hawley           2330 NW Hummingbird Corvallis, OR

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Let us not forget that a four piece rod can be broken down into two equal lengths for a quick bush walk to the next hole.

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Anne, I feel more of a difference (which is to say so little that I think it’ just because I know the rod is a multi-piece rather than a 2 piece)between 2piece rods than 3,4, or 6 piece rods.  Also, in my experience that a rod tube of about 36" in length or shorter, straps very easily to the side of my backpack and I only notice it when I sit down or bushwhack with the pack on. Do any of you find a great difference in action between the 3 piece and 4 piece? I hope to be buying my first rod soon and would like other opinions on this rather than just the salesman’s.

I never had a problem with a 2-piece rod strapped to the side of my backpack. And I trekked it all over the Sierras.  Of course that’s pretty easy hiking. -Burton — L. Burton Hawley         2330 NW Hummingbird Corvallis, OR

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Having being bitten by the rod building bug this winter (3 down so far), I’ve decided to put together a pack rod.  What I’m wondering is whether for airplane luggage a 3 piece 9 footer (36 inch sections) is allowed in overhead, or whether I have to drop to a 4 piece (27 inch sections) to be able to carry it on.  I’d prefer a 3 piece because my blank of choice right now is a Scott Alpha (very nice for the money, at least for the 2 piece ones I’ve built with it!), but will do a four piece if I have to. Opinions? Troy

        Most overheads will take up to 48" . So most three piece rods will fit.                  Harv

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Having being bitten by the rod building bug this winter (3 down so far), I’ve decided to put together a pack rod.  What I’m wondering is whether for airplane luggage a 3 piece 9 footer (36 inch sections) is allowed in overhead, or whether I have to drop to a 4 piece (27 inch sections) to be able to carry it on.  I’d prefer a 3 piece because my blank of choice right now is a Scott Alpha (very nice for the money, at least for the 2 piece ones I’ve built with it!), but will do a four piece if I have to. Opinions? Troy

I have a 3 and a 4 pc. and both will fit in overheads. However the 4 pc. will fit inside most of my luggage, whereas the 3 pc. will not, and I don’t feel like buying new luggage. So when I fly I bring the 4 pc., while I stow the 3 pc. on the boat.                                                                 jc

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Having being bitten by the rod building bug this winter (3 down so far), I’ve decided to put together a pack rod.  What I’m wondering is whether for airplane luggage a 3 piece 9 footer (36 inch sections) is allowed in overhead, or whether I have to drop to a 4 piece (27 inch sections) to be able to carry it on.  I’d prefer a 3 piece because my blank of choice right now is a Scott Alpha (very nice for the money, at least for the 2 piece ones I’ve built with it!), but will do a four piece if I have to. Opinions? Troy

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Question:

I’m interested in knowing who besides a tarpon fisherman has use for a fly leaderstretcher.  Please e-mail me direct with any input. thanks. mark. Mark Gervase

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Anyone who wants to pretie a fly to a shock tippet. Shock tippets are generally used to catch fish that have a tendancy to cut through a normal leader because of their behavior, sharp gill rackers, or teeth. The leader stretcher lets you pretie the flies to your shock tippet and keep your shock straight. A coily shock won’t do. Also, because of their bulk, leader stretchers are typically used by anglers fishing from a boat or where they don’t have to do a lot of wading/walking. I have developed my own easy-to-make, inexpensive stretchers for tarpon, snook, pike, muskies, and sometimes (without shocks) even for chinooks and cohos. Bob Elliott

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I’m interested in knowing who besides a tarpon fisherman has use for a fly leaderstretcher.  Please e-mail me direct with any input. thanks. mark. Mark Gervase

I fish for trout here in Oregon and regularly use a stretcher when needed.  I use a piece of rubber tubing cut from an old inner tube. works fine.  Another old trick is to rub toothpaste on the leader to sink it.  Works great too.  Neither of which costs hardly anything.

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I fish for trout here in Oregon and regularly use a stretcher when needed.  I use a piece of rubber tubing cut from an old inner tube. works fine.  <snip

Nolan, I would caution you about this technique for stretching leaders as it can damage the leader.  When you draw a piece of mono through the rubber pieces it generates a good deal of heat.  This heat is, supposedly, sufficient to weaken the leader.  I don’t have any emperical evidence of this but I have experienced the heating when using rubber to stretch leaders. I play it safe by simply grasping the leader in arm length sections and stretch it with a steady, firm pull for a few seconds.  This does a reasonable job but will not complete take the curl out of the butt section.  However, I find that even in the cold conditions of winter fishing the butt section will straighten out upon use after a short time – paticularly if you can get the assistance of a large Lake Ontario steelhead. Steve

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Saltwater flyfishers who head offshore! I routinely carry six or eight stretchers with a dozen to two dozen flies per stretcher when heading offshore. They keep the shock leader, or bite tippet, straight and ready to go at a moments notice. Tom Dougherty – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m interested in knowing who besides a tarpon fisherman has use for a fly leaderstretcher.  Please e-mail me direct with any input. thanks. mark. Mark Gervase I fish for trout here in Oregon and regularly use a stretcher when needed.  I use a piece of rubber tubing cut from an old inner tube. works fine.  Another old trick is to rub toothpaste on the leader to sink it.  Works great too.  Neither of which costs hardly anything.

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. I have developed my own easy-to-make, inexpensive stretchers for tarpon, snook, pike, muskies, and sometimes (without shocks) even for chinooks and cohos. Bob Elliott

Sounds interesting, How about a description? Rick

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I use a piece of stiff cardboard with slots at each end to keep shock leaders for flats fishing off Cedar Key/Suwannee coast.  Tell me what – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m interested in knowing who besides a tarpon fisherman has use for a fly leaderstretcher.  Please e-mail me direct with any input. thanks. mark. Mark Gervase I fish for trout here in Oregon and regularly use a stretcher when needed.  I use a piece of rubber tubing cut from an old inner tube. works fine.  Another old trick is to rub toothpaste on the leader to sink it.  Works great too.  Neither of which costs hardly anything.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Richard–Regarding your response to my comment about leader stretchers: the stretchers I make are out of a relatively new material that is used alot in the fabrication of portable exhibits (trade shows, etc.). It is like foam core, but doesn’t have foam! It’s waterproof and while it is rigid , it’ll still bend. Basically, I cut the material into 24" x 12" sections. Then I drill six holes near the top and six more holes about 3 inches below and offset from the first set of holes. These holes are where I place my tied and preknotted flies. On the other end of the board I cut 12 slits to align with the holes I cut in the other end. These slits are for the shook/tippet to slide through. On the back side, I individually tape the tippet of each pretied shock,tippet and fly. By taping each tightly, I create a slight bow in the board that put stress on the shock until I use it. All in all, I love this simple system … I store the boards in a canvas carry bag and have quicker access to pretied flies and shocks than with any other system. Its great when you are on a boat for tarpon. I the directions aren’t clear, send me a personal email, and I’ll try to clarify them. Thanks. Bob Elliott

Bob,         Every time I try to use a leader stretcher (for blues) I run into the same problem. In my living room the flies all sit on the stretcher nice and pretty with the tippets neatly coiled like prepackaged guitar strings. Then, after I take it out once or twice all these nice coils become a tangled mess, I pull them all off the stretcher and throow the lot away ! How do you keep those coils from coming loose/getting tangled, etc. ? The knots I tie accidentally seem stronger than those I tie on purpose….                                                 jc

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Richard–Regarding your response to my comment about leader stretchers: the stretchers I make are out of a relatively new material that is used alot in the fabrication of portable exhibits (trade shows, etc.). It is like foam core, but doesn’t have foam! It’s waterproof and while it is rigid , it’ll still bend. Basically, I cut the material into 24" x 12" sections. Then I drill six holes near the top and six more holes about 3 inches below and offset from the first set of holes. These holes are where I place my tied and preknotted flies. On the other end of the board I cut 12 slits to align with the holes I cut in the other end. These slits are for the shook/tippet to slide through. On the back side, I individually tape the tippet of each pretied shock,tippet and fly. By taping each tightly, I create a slight bow in the board that put stress on the shock until I use it. All in all, I love this simple system … I store the boards in a canvas carry bag and have quicker access to pretied flies and shocks than with any other system. Its great when you are on a boat for tarpon. I the directions aren’t clear, send me a personal email, and I’ll try to clarify them. Thanks. Bob Elliott

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Bob, Every time I try to use a leader stretcher (for blues) I run into the same problem. In my living room the flies all sit on the stretcher nice and pretty with the tippets neatly coiled like prepackaged guitar strings. Then, after I take it out once or twice all these nice coils become a tangled mess, I pull them all off the stretcher and throow the lot away ! How do you keep those coils from coming loose/getting tangled, etc. ? The knots I tie accidentally seem stronger than those I tie on purpose….

      jc Dear jc … I know the problem. My little system has kept the tangling to a minimum. First of all I loop-to-loop connections for all pretied leaders. I tie the fly to the shock (usually no longer than 6") and then, with a huffnagle or albright with lock, the shock to the tippet (minimum IGFA length). So from hook point to the end of tippet I’ve got about 26" of stuff. I tie a double or triple surgeons loop at the end of the tippet. That’s all I put on the stretcher. I can get at least a dozen pretied setups on each of the homemade stretchers I described. I then tape each loop to the back of the stretcher with artist’s (restickable) masking tape, creating enough tension to keep each pretied setup tight. I have a loop pretied to the butt section on the reel, so whenever I want to change flies, I do the loop to loop thing and replace the unwanted setup on the stretcher using the restickable tape. It’s not perfect, but it works (even in the rain). Good fishin’ Bob Elliott

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I don’t use leader strechers, I fish for them…. TimW

Response:

I’m interested in knowing who besides a tarpon fisherman has use for a fly leaderstretcher.  Please e-mail me direct with any input. thanks. mark. Mark Gervase

Anyone who is using 60# or heavier mono for shock(wear) tippets for fish with abrasive mouths like tarpon and billfish. It keeps the heavy material straight so your fly will run straight. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA

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Question:

Gee Mike, I think we are discussing a philosophical question, not a legal one. As I live in Nashville and have never visited your fare state, I am unfamiliar with your local laws. What is flyfishing to you? Do YOU think that fishing with split shot is fly fishing? What about using running line to "cast" heavy nymphys using a fly rod and the chuck and duck method?       Sincerely, Trey

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Gee Mike, I think we are discussing a philosophical question, not a legal one. As I live in Nashville and have never visited your fare state, I am unfamiliar with your local laws. What is flyfishing to you? Do YOU think that fishing with split shot is fly fishing? What about using running line to "cast" heavy nymphys using a fly rod and the chuck and duck method?       Sincerely, Trey

Unfortunately, Trey, all legal restrictions arise from philosophical discussions.  I’d bet this question involves current debate regarding who can fish where. Charley

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C Unfortunately, Trey, all legal restrictions arise from philosophical C discussions.  I’d bet this question involves current debate regarding C who can fish where. C C Charley My point is, WHAT DO _YOU_ THINK? As far as I know, none of the people who wrote the law restricting the use of weight on the leader are posting here. I think the philospohical question is an interesting one, but I am more interested in lively discussion than quoting chapter and verse. For me, if you cast it on a fly rod using a fly line its fly fishing. Now, as a redneck, this may be more utilitarian and less rule bound than my northern brother and sister flyfishers. I would benefit and appreciate discussion about what we THINK not what we are told. So, whattaya think?      Trey

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The point is to get the fly to where the fish are, and to enjoy the experience of using the fly.

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C Unfortunately, Trey, all legal restrictions arise from philosophical C discussions.  I’d bet this question involves current debate regarding My point is, WHAT DO _YOU_ THINK? As far as I know, none of the people who wrote the law restricting the use of weight on the leader are posting here.

I suggest "philosophy" came after the fact.  In most states and provinces the earliest reason for banning weighted flies or leaders was to reduce poaching by deliberate snagging.  The rule is old in some places with salmon rivers, but has been gradually introduced in other places, notably the Great Lakes states, to wean anglers off snagging (commonly said 20 years ago to be the only possible way of landing salmon and steelhead.) When this process began about 15 years ago, fly anglers were an insignificant minority.  I.e. regulators seeking to eliminate snagging on the NY Salmon River (formerly legal) were not concerned about the fly fisherman with a twist-on half-way down his leader:  they wanted to stop the people heaving trebles pre-mounted with two ounces of lead, then available in many tackle stores. Nowadays fly fishing is increasingly common and popular — so interpreting the "no weight" rule has become important in a way no one foresaw when it first appeared in the regulations.  Only recently has "philosophy" come up. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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You’d better be careful….your post was logical, concise and made sense. That’s more than I can say about a lot of stuff I read on the ‘net. J.P. Ward Twin Willow Farm

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I think this does boil down to a question of application of regulations needed for certain areas.  Here in TN, we don’t have the difficulties associated with overfishing via flyfishing in our trout streams (at least for the most part) i.e. flyfishing isn’t as popular here as it is in other parts of the country.  We have put and take streams where the wildlife resource folks expect the trout to be harvested, tailwaters that support natural reproduction but are supplemented with stocked trout, as well as wild trout streams that don’t get stocked but can be managed using slot limits, c&r, etc.  In areas that get a lot of flyfishers on the water, DNR folks most likely find it necessary to restrict the _type_ of flyfishing done in certain streams.  I suspect this is a way to appease not only the flyfishers, but bait and lure fishers as well.  On the Hiwassee, there is a quality section that while not flyfishing only, does restrict fishing to single-hook, artificial lures/flies only.  I imagine if this section’s fishing began to decline because of the number of _flyfishers_, then they would consider limiting the _type_ of flyfishing accomplished in that quality zone.   I realize this may be a vast oversimplification, but it has been my experience in some of the streams I’ve fished out-of-state, particularly those that are popular destinations with flyfishers. Jerry Cobb Nashville, TN OR

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[snip] On the Hiwassee, there is a quality section that while not flyfishing only, does restrict fishing to single-hook, artificial lures/flies only.  I imagine if this section’s fishing began to decline because of the number of _flyfishers_, then they would consider limiting the _type_ of flyfishing accomplished in that quality zone.  

[snip] Jerry, In Georgia droppers and trailers are banned on single hook artificial streams.  I believe North Carolina is the same way.  How does TN define the single hook rule?  Is it per fly or per rod? Thanks, John Johnson Atlanta, GA

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streams.  I believe North Carolina is the same way.  How does TN define the single hook rule?  Is it per fly or per rod? John Johnson Atlanta, GA

It varies.  In the Cherokee Wildlife Management areas, a dropper is considered legal.  I’m not sure about the Hiwassee quality zone, though I’ve been told it’s one hook per rod.  I have seen anglers fishing dropper flies through that area, but that’s no indication of the regulations, however 8-( Jerry Cobb Nashville, TN OR

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Hi, In Nova Scotia it is illegal to take salmon (which are designated flyfishing only) on weighted flies, so I guess our DNR agrees with you that weighted flies are not "pure". On the other hand, get this, the rules here state "the weight can not be attached to the fly, nor extra weight added to the fly" BUT, in a discussion with a DNR rep over this very issue at a Guide’s meeting we were informed that weighted fly lines were perfectly legal, since the weight hadn’t been "added". Weird, what ? Still, I have seen lots of unweighted flies being cast upstream, ripped back and left low in an attempt to "catch"(read "jig") trout in one of our more popular ff only streams. So there you go, it’s a Bill – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi: I talked with a fly shop owner last week who was against the use of weighted flies, like a large nymph, or extreme sink tips on waters designated for fly fishing only.  He questioned, and I tend to agree, that this is not conceptually different from spin fishing with heavy jigs, weights, etc.  I’m curious how others on this group would respond to a spin fisher who points to these type of fly tackle as being equivalent to spin tackle, and that to reserve waters for fly fishing only tends to ignore the similarities in tackle. Don

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – C I talked with a fly shop owner last week who was against the use of C weighted flies, like a large nymph, or extreme sink tips on waters C designated for fly fishing only.  He questioned, and I tend to agree, Hm, I do spin fish on occasions and I don’t need room for a backcast when I do. Nore do I need to worry too much about the weight of my lure or "mending" my casts. I also don’t need to worry about my cricket coming off when I cast. I find it easier to spin cast to a specific location and can cast much farther and faster than when I fly fish. I think these and other differences clearly distinguish between fly and spin fishing. For me, fly fishing refers to how I cast my line, not to what I choose to cast. Many folks look down their nose at streamers because they are not insects. Again for me, its how, not what, I cast.      Trey Monroe

It does not matter what a person (ie – the fly shop owner) "thinks" about fly fishing.  Weighted flies, nymphs, streamers, wets, and dries are all part of the broad scheme of fly fishing.  However, there is a legal definition for fly fishing, depending upon where you are. In a CT FFO Area (Fly Fishing Only), DO NOT get caught by a warden with split shot on your line to get your trusty old streamer to the bottom.   Weight MUST be incorporated into the tying of the fly or into the construction of the line, PERIOD!  As for gear, using a fly on spinning gear IS NOT considered fly fishing, legally.  You must use a fly rod and reel to be classified as fly fishing and avoid a fine.  We have seen many folks spin fishing in an FFO area and watched (& cheered) as they paid for their indiscretion (and inability to read the signs). – Mike

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Guide Service (Bill Curry)) writes: So there you go, it’s a

Amen.  

Response:

Hi: I talked with a fly shop owner last week who was against the use of weighted flies, like a large nymph, or extreme sink tips on waters designated for fly fishing only.  He questioned, and I tend to agree, that this is not conceptually different from spin fishing with heavy jigs, weights, etc.  I’m curious how others on this group would respond to a spin fisher who points to these type of fly tackle as being equivalent to spin tackle, and that to reserve waters for fly fishing only tends to ignore the similarities in tackle.

I strongly disagree! the shop owner must be a dry fly only fisherman. Too bad since stomach contents prove that fish feed mostly on nymphs all year long. The poor shop owner is missing out on lots of fly fishing fun limiting himself to hatch only days with his fly rod. bad for him but O so good for me! By the by, the first flies ever used were wet flies way back in the 1400’s and before. Hows that for "tradition"?

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Hi: I talked with a fly shop owner last week who was against the use of weighted flies, like a large nymph, or extreme sink tips on waters designated for fly fishing only.  He questioned, and I tend to agree, that this is not conceptually different from spin fishing with heavy jigs, weights, etc.  I’m curious how others on this group would respond to a spin fisher who points to these type of fly tackle as being equivalent to spin tackle, and that to reserve waters for fly fishing only tends to ignore the similarities in tackle.

I would simply invite said spin fisher out into the parking lot, and invite him to get out his best gear. I would pick up a rod with a sink tip line and leader, sans fly. Then, we’d have us a little contest and see who can cast the longest distance… with no lure… Now, if he can throw 60 feet of line without a lure, and can pick up the line and cast it again without reeling it all in, I _might_ be willing to concede that there isn’t any difference between spinning and flycasting… but it ain’t gonna happen, folks! For a REAL test, let’s try the same thing without rods! Joe Ellis         o/~ The Synthetic Filker o/~ |    TesserAct Studios  //~~~LL~~~~LL~ Update your address book today!|  New Dimensions In Filk!

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Any lines drawn between the admittedly "pure" art of the direct imitation of the accepted three major groups of may-, caddis-, and stoneflies and all other "fly" forms should be made on an individual basis, or not at all. Weighted or unweighted, the subsurface imitation exists only to entice the intended quarry, and if that brings pleasure to the angler, then so be it.  There can be no harm in the peaceful pursuit of, and the subsequent glorification and immortalization of a truly beautiful creature when taken by the fairest of all sporting methods, the fly rod.

Response:

Hi: I talked with a fly shop owner last week who was against the use of weighted flies, like a large nymph, or extreme sink tips on waters designated for fly fishing only.  He questioned, and I tend to agree, that this is not conceptually different from spin fishing with heavy jigs, weights, etc.  I’m curious how others on this group would respond to a spin fisher who points to these type of fly tackle as being equivalent to spin tackle, and that to reserve waters for fly fishing only tends to ignore the similarities in tackle. Don

More Horse Hockey.  Why not liven it up a bit and consider things like Dahlberg Divers, no weight, but shaped to dive, or the infamous "Wiggle Bug"?  Maybe we should regulate flylines to a maximum castable length of 50 feet, outlaw shooting heads and require a full backcast to qualify as "flyfishing".  Speycasters and 50ft+ rollcasters must not be real flyfisher persons.  Or extend the debate to the "strike indicaters aren’t flyfishing" school of thought or using more than one fly isn’t flyfishing (never mind that there is a long documented use of a dryfly as an "indicater" for a subsurface fly or the traditional us of 5 or mor fly "casts" in the British Isles). Mike in PDX "When the trout are lost, smash the state."                           Tom McGuane

Response:

Hi: I talked with a fly shop owner last week who was against the use of weighted flies, like a large nymph, or extreme sink tips on waters designated for fly fishing only.  He questioned, and I tend to agree, that this is not conceptually different from spin fishing with heavy jigs, weights, etc.  I’m curious how others on this group would respond to a spin fisher who points to these type of fly tackle as being equivalent to spin tackle, and that to reserve waters for fly fishing only tends to ignore the similarities in tackle. Don

Horse Hockey.  A bit of non-specific fuzzy thinking.  "Tackle"="The equipment used in a sport or occupation, esp. fishing, gear."  Since both use a long stick sort of thing to propel a faux edible thing some distance into the aquatic environment I suppose you could make the argument that fly and spin "tackle" are the same without even considering the terminal part of same…..Don’t think Dame Julianna Berners fished dry, wet or "damp" for the most part.  Suppose this discussion which tends to be of interest to those older than dirt on the North Umpqua and newbies will continue until the weightless hook is perfected.  The debate (or mindless dithering if you prefer) has been ongoing in and out of print for at least the past 25 years.     Mike in PDX "When the trout are lost, smash the state."                           Tom McGuane

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Hi: I talked with a fly shop owner last week who was against the use of weighted flies, like a large nymph, or extreme sink tips on waters designated for fly fishing only.  He questioned, and I tend to agree, that this is not conceptually different from spin fishing with heavy jigs, weights, etc.  I’m curious how others on this group would respond to a spin fisher who points to these type of fly tackle as being equivalent to spin tackle, and that to reserve waters for fly fishing only tends to ignore the similarities in tackle. Don

I think that the responses have been interesting, but my question is directed towards the regulation of certain waters for fly fishing only versus other types of tackle that might be used.  I have no quarrel against fishing a dry fly on a wet fly swing, nor the use of any of the type of flies now used. (Well maybe against the use of lead vs non-lead wire/putty.)  Nor do I have anything against spin fishing or a simple stick with a bunch of worms on a hook.  I have fished waters with both types of equipment and have fished along with spin fishers. Don

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“ I talked with a fly shop owner last week who was against the use of weighted flies, like a large nymph, or extreme sink tips on waters` designated for fly fishing only.  He questioned, and I tend to agree,

` that this is not conceptually different from spin fishing with heavy ` jigs, weights, etc.  I’m curious how others on this group would ` respond to a spin fisher who points to these type of fly tackle as ` being equivalent to spin tackle, and that to reserve waters for fly ` fishing only tends to ignore the similarities in tackle. ` ` Don      If you are going to have "fly fishing only," then I suppose you have to define fly fishing. Personally, I could care less. I often fish lightweight spinners with my fly rod. I make them myself. Most of the time, streamers work better than (metal) spinners. But what the hell. I also make fly rod jigs….little wire–headed streamers that I cast with a slow motion double haul. They (fly rod jigs) are often useful, although split shot on the leader, combined with a neutrally buouant fly, is usually more productive.     Is it true that people who fret and worry about definitions tend to be category people, –people who have a hard time dealing with gray area?

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C I talked with a fly shop owner last week who was against the use of C weighted flies, like a large nymph, or extreme sink tips on waters C designated for fly fishing only.  He questioned, and I tend to agree, Hm, I do spin fish on occasions and I don’t need room for a backcast when I do. Nore do I need to worry too much about the weight of my lure or "mending" my casts. I also don’t need to worry about my cricket coming off when I cast. I find it easier to spin cast to a specific location and can cast much farther and faster than when I fly fish. I think these and other differences clearly distinguish between fly and spin fishing. For me, fly fishing refers to how I cast my line, not to what I choose to cast. Many folks look down their nose at streamers because they are not insects. Again for me, its how, not what, I cast.      Trey Monroe

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Hi: I talked with a fly shop owner last week who was against the use of weighted flies, like a large nymph, or extreme sink tips on waters designated for fly fishing only.  He questioned, and I tend to agree, that this is not conceptually different from spin fishing with heavy jigs, weights, etc.  I’m curious how others on this group would respond to a spin fisher who points to these type of fly tackle as being equivalent to spin tackle, and that to reserve waters for fly fishing only tends to ignore the similarities in tackle. Don

In California, we have lots of  water that is designated "artificials only, single barbless hook".  This means that using a spinning rod with a lure ( spinner, spoon, plug or jig ) that has a single hook(s) with the barb pinched flat is OK. We have very few fisheries that are Fly Fishing Only. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA

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Hi: I talked with a fly shop owner last week who was against the use of weighted flies, like a large nymph, or extreme sink tips on waters designated for fly fishing only.  He questioned, and I tend to agree, that this is not conceptually different from spin fishing with heavy jigs, weights, etc.  I’m curious how others on this group would respond to a spin fisher who points to these type of fly tackle as being equivalent to spin tackle, and that to reserve waters for fly fishing only tends to ignore the similarities in tackle. Don

Response:

Hi: I talked with a fly shop owner last week who was against the use of weighted flies, like a large nymph, or extreme sink tips on waters designated for fly fishing only.  He questioned, and I tend to agree, that this is not conceptually different from spin fishing with heavy jigs, weights, etc.  I’m curious how others on this group would respond to a spin fisher who points to these type of fly tackle as being equivalent to spin tackle, and that to reserve waters for fly fishing only tends to ignore the similarities in tackle. Don

I totally disagree, I suppose you can only fish dries upstream also.  I fished rivers for years as a spinning fisherman, and only took up flyfishing a few years back, but fishing with heavy jigs isn’t like fly fishing.  There are many things in life that conceptually might be similar, but in reality are totally different. Vince

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Question:

Hi guys-    Am going to Borneo on a cave mapping trip in October through December. Anybody know anything about the fisheries there or who to contact? -Ralph —

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Hi guys-   Am going to Borneo on a cave mapping trip in October through December. Anybody know anything about the fisheries there or who to contact? -Ralph —

        oh, god, what a great post.  thanks, cutter.  haven’t had a laugh like this in months.                 a. wayne harrison

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        oh, god, what a great post.  thanks, cutter.  haven’t had a laugh like this in months!                 a. wayne harrison

        No. Really.         I’d hate to show up with a box of PMD’s when the centipede hatch was going bonkers.         Seriously though, if anyone has any leads regarding fish or fishing in Borneo I’d appreciate a word. -Me

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        oh, god, what a great post.  thanks, cutter.  haven’t had a laugh like this in months!                 a. wayne harrison         No. Really.         I’d hate to show up with a box of PMD’s when the centipede hatch was going bonkers.         Seriously though, if anyone has any leads regarding fish or fishing in Borneo I’d appreciate a word.

I do not. RE: Fish in Caves… Once I was in a cave in Colorado that had running water in it (on an extended backpacking rip)…it was FULL of brookies…wierd little huge jawed brookies…that would hit anything. We ate a lot of them… We kept ‘em alive on a stringer…bonk one…cut off the head…insert weenie stick along spine and cook like a marshmallow.  DELICIOUS ! TimW

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Try contacting  Hock-Heng Pro Fishing in Singapore , they are pretty knowledgable from what I remember . Unfortunately I do not have their contact information anymore , but remember the name . G

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Question:

I would love to here your experiences. I fish out of Key West every year and will be down there this year from the week of June 23.  I know it will be a lot of work for you, but reading your journal will get me even more excited about my trip.   Thanks for the offer Bob Price

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Me too! Bill Battles

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I didn’t post yesterday because I was tired of reporting no fishing. In fact, I was tired of not going fishing, the kind of tired you get when you sleep or think too much. Today I took out Nicholas V., who I met in Belize last fall.  I had a one-day cancellation and he came down from NY.  So I slipped on my long underwear (it was 58 degrees when I got up) and said to myself, "I’m going to be miserable all day long and I’m going to love it." The water is very cold from a barrage of cold fronts and even though this should be the best permit fishing of the year, I didn’t expect to see much today.  (Del B. called yesterday and said they didn’t see a fish all day.) The wind was 10-15 out of the northeast and there was a clear blue sky.  We set out for a warm spot (some flats are warmer than others, or at least the fish think so) on the oceanside about 18 miles west of Key West, began fishing a flat on a low incoming tide, poled about 2 miles and saw nothing.  We then ran into the lakes and poled a strip bank looking for ‘cudas, and lo and behold ran across a couple of pairs of permit.  We weren’t prepared to cast to them, but we did hook a decent cuda on a mylar-tube fly that I like.  We decided to keep cuda fishing because Nick just wanted to hook anything and neither of us thought we’d see many permit.  We checked another basin for cudas, then another strip bank where we saw another couple of pairs of permit.  We then ran out to an oceanside flat to look on the high outgoing, saw nothing on one flat, and one tailing, mudding permit of about 12 lbs. on the next.  Nick had a little bit of difficulty seeing him but the permit could see Nick’s bright yellow raincoat just fine, it turns out. We ran down to two more oceanside flats and saw a couple of permit on each one, but they were very spooky.  Finally we ran to a large gulfside flat for the high outgoing and had a couple of good shots at permit, but the water was off color and Nick didn’t pick them up right away. On the way home we stopped and cast at a couple of cobias on rays, and then spent about half-an-hour taking turns practice casting and talking about what bad casters we were before heading home.   Marshall Cutchin

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Is anyone interested in a daily account of what a Florida Keys flats guide experiences?  I have had this idea for quite a while: to publish in the newsgroup what happens on consecutive days of fishing so that readers would see beyond the hype and, perhaps, into the more sublime and humorous aspects of guided trips in the Lower Florida Keys.  This would only work if I posted every day, so it would require some stamina on my part and I would only do it if there were enough interest.   Marshall Cutchin

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Cool. I’d read it.

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I would be very interested. I know it would be alot of work.

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Is anyone interested in a daily account of what a Florida Keys flats guide experiences?  I have had this idea for quite a while: to publish in the newsgroup what happens on consecutive days of fishing so that readers would see beyond the hype and, perhaps, into the more sublime and humorous aspects of guided trips in the Lower Florida Keys.  This would only work if I posted every day, so it would require some stamina on my part and I would only do it if there were enough interest.   Marshall Cutchin

I’ll read it.       Gene

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Is anyone interested in a daily account of what a Florida Keys flats guide experiences?  I have had this idea for quite a while: to publish in the newsgroup what happens on consecutive days of fishing so that readers would see beyond the hype and, perhaps, into the more sublime and humorous aspects of guided trips in the Lower Florida Keys.  This would only work if I posted every day, so it would require some stamina on my part and I would only do it if there were enough interest.   Marshall Cutchin

Marshall, I for one, would certainly be interested! Please post. Jack Wheeler

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Marshall – would very much enjoy reading such reports, particularly because I’ve never had the opportunity to experience those activities myself.  Since I hope to try the Keys for bonefish someday, it would provide insights for future planning.  In my view, no need for lengthy essays – just a brief summary and an observation or two would be fun to read, helpful, and hopefully not so burdensome for you.                                             Mark Faulkner

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Who would turn down real time FF info?  Not me.  I’d even read it!  I might suggest a standardized "Re:" so everyone will know it’s you.  Great idea, and I look forward to seeing your posts. Bill Battles

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Is anyone interested in a daily account of what a Florida Keys flats guide experiences?  I have had this idea for quite a while: to publish in the newsgroup what happens on consecutive days of fishing so that readers would see beyond the hype and, perhaps, into the more sublime and humorous aspects of guided trips in the Lower Florida Keys.  This would only work if I posted every day, so it would require some stamina on my part and I would only do it if there were enough interest. Marshall Cutchin

Me, me!  This would be a lot of fun.  Go for it.

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Marshall, Count me in the please post column "The true angler is always content to fish alone" Brian Di Carlo

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Is anyone interested in a daily account of what a Florida Keys flats guide experiences?  I have had this idea for quite a while: to publish in the newsgroup what happens on consecutive days of fishing so that readers would see beyond the hype and, perhaps, into the more sublime and humorous aspects of guided trips in the Lower Florida Keys.  This would only work if I posted every day, so it would require some stamina on my part and I would only do it if there were enough interest.   Marshall Cutchin

Like many others that post on this newsgroup, I am looking forward to flyfishing in the Keys. I would enjoy reading what it is like from the guide’s perspective even if I see some of myself in the less gifted (from the flyfishing standpoint) clients you guide.

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Question:

Hi Sandy, I have a bunch of EVA ZOTE closed cell foam I bought from a dealer at the Fly Tackle Dealer Show a couple of years ago. I don’t avertize it in my catalog but I’ve got it if you need some. Give me a holler at 585-0745. Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

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I have found some good foam for bugs by searching the boxes we regularly receive here at work.  Alot of the computer companies use good quality closed cell foam for shipping.  Soft and floats well. I’ve accumulated more than I’ll use in a very long time. It’s kind of like finding road kill foam. Seek and ye shall find. You can also find adhesivfoam in Hardware Stores (used to stop drafts)-

Fishfinder

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I want some advice on different glues to use on foam body bugs.  I have tried head cement and it seems to work somewhat, but doesn’t bond the hook to the foam.

The strongest glue for anything will always be epoxy. Model airplane shops sell *thin* 5 minute epoxy that works well for fly tying. 20-minute epoxy will be more flexible and stronger yet, however. Super glue is handy, also sold at model airplane shops, along with ‘instant’ hardening catalyst. I make a lot of foam flies. I use cheap, open-cell polyurethane foam for soft-bodied nymphs and streamers, and EVA (ethyl-vinyl-acetate) closed-cell foam for grass hopper bodies, etc. Big, soft foam streamers are interesting because fish don’t spit them out. They bite down and say ‘yes, this is what I thought.’ Where do you get closed-cell EVA foam? I dunno, for sure. John Betts used to sell under an ‘Evazote’ trade name, but he never had colors. I get it from a wholesaler. But most folks can’t do that. I don’t use foam strips, I cut out a hopper body, wrap it lightly with thread to segment it, and then tie it on *loosely* with thread, and then use super glue. One last note: Not all closed-cell foam is worth anything. Some is so dense it hardly floats. You need to find *lightweight* foam to make unsinkable dry flies. Most fly shops sell strands of ’round-in-cross-section’ closed-cell foam (made by ??) that looks really handy. But the damn stuff is so heavy it’s more like rubber, and hardly floats.

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Question:

I live just outside of Washington DC and I was wondering where y’all think the best winter fly fishing is in this area.  It doesn’t have to be in my backyard, with in a few hours drive is alright.  It doesn’t have to be great fishing either, just to dip my line in some water would be nice. An overall query—if you could get any fishing related item for the Christmas, what would it be?  Essentially, what is at the top of a fly fisherman’s wish list?  

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An overall query—if you could get any fishing related item for the Christmas, what would it be?  Essentially, what is at the top of a fly fisherman’s wish list?  

I wish Santa would bring me a girlfriend who loves to flyfish. He wouldn’t even have to wrap her for me, he can just drop her off naked. —                   Flyfishers do it with longer rods

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: I live just outside of Washington DC and I was wondering where y’all think : the best winter fly fishing is in this area.  It doesn’t have to be in my : backyard, with in a few hours drive is alright.  It doesn’t have to be : great fishing either, just to dip my line in some water would be nice. If you are in DC, then try my old favorites  The Gunpowder below Prettybow Dam in Baltimore County, and Hunting Creek, near Thurmont in Frederick County. For the past two years, I caught (I belive the same) 23" brown on a GR-Hare’s Ear during January at Hunting Creek. I just moved to Oregon, and I’m sure I’ll miss these places. : An overall query—if you could get any fishing related item for the : Christmas, what would it be?  Essentially, what is at the top of a fly : fisherman’s wish list?   Leaders, tippets, water-proof throwaway camera to take photos of the great C&R’s. Fingerless neoprene gloves for cold-weather angling. Merry Xmas – Cameron Thomas

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: I live just outside of Washington DC and I was wondering where y’all think : the best winter fly fishing is in this area.  It doesn’t have to be in my : backyard, with in a few hours drive is alright.  It doesn’t have to be : great fishing either, just to dip my line in some water would be nice. : An overall query—if you could get any fishing related item for the : Christmas, what would it be?  Essentially, what is at the top of a fly : fisherman’s wish list?           If you just have the need to wet you’re lines and catch some fish, you can head to Dikerson (sp?).  The warm-water chute (where the kayakers practice in the winter) provides some pretty decent fishing throughout the winter.  Lots of big feisty blue-gills & some decent smallmouth action can be had too.  Never had much luck with the smallmouths though — of course I’ve only been up there 2 or 3 times.   Check out the rec. department for winter fishing courses.         As for the gift — how about either:                         1)  A private lake somewhere in canada with 500                             coupons for free flights or,                         2)  A condo on a small island off Florida with                             the same.

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