Question:

Hello everyone! I’ve really enjoyed a couple of fish documentaries I’ve seen on TV lately. I thought I’d prepare for the cabin fever by getting a couple of such documentaries (or just general fishing stories) on DVD, if I could find some good ones. Anyone seen any good river/fish documentaries or fishing programs on DVD? — Jarmo Hurri address or apply rot13 to header email address.

Response:

Hello everyone! I’ve really enjoyed a couple of fish documentaries I’ve seen on TV lately. I thought I’d prepare for the cabin fever by getting a couple of such documentaries (or just general fishing stories) on DVD, if I could find some good ones. Anyone seen any good river/fish documentaries or fishing programs on DVD?

Fly Fishing Yellowstone Hatches, w/ Craig Mathews

Response:

Anyone seen any good river/fish documentaries or fishing programs on DVD?

Jeff Fly Fishing Yellowstone Hatches, w/ Craig Mathews Looks pretty interesting, thanks. — Jarmo Hurri address or apply rot13 to header email address.

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Question:

My new next door neighbor has been talking about the Magalloway river since he moved in. He grew up in Bethel and also lived in Errol, NH for a couple of years and knows the area well so we headed up this afternoon. Seems to me that the tripper had tried to get me up there 10-12 years ago but I never made the trip. It’s about 100 mile trip from my house, we did it in about 1.5 hours, a nice scenic drive up through Grafton Notch. The Magalloway is a short river, running betweem Aziscohos Lake and Umbagog Lake. Umbagog is the same lake that the Rapid runs into. The Magalloway is a bit north of the Rapid. First we fished one of his favorite spots, right off Rt16 out of Errol (but back in Maine) a bend pool near a large field. Mitch didn’t get anything there but I unfortunately caught a smallie, about 12" and it had to be the healthiest smallie I’ve caught this year. So sadly, the smallies are running up the Magalloway as well as the Rapid. We moved to a pool upstream he called trout pool, where he guaranteed there were some good fish. On the short walk in we ran into a woman who was down with her dog to watch the kayakers. We got to the pool and Mitch told me to fish the head of the pool and he moved down the bank to the middle. After 10-15 mins 3 kayaks came down the river and immediately cut accross the pool in front of us. Then they started to play in the sluce where it dumped into the pool. They would go accross the main pool, sit on the other side, giggle, then one of them would come out and shoot through the pool again. It was deliberate and quite annoying. Things had gotten to where I was beginning to consider throwing rocks or whacking them on the helmut with my rod when they finally drifted downstream. I realize that rafters and kayakers are our allies in keeping the rivers clean and wild but these people needed to learn to give some consideration. After the twits left I decided to try a dry fly as I’d seen a couple fish hitting the top, so I tied on one of Vern’s reddish brown things and after a few casts decided to move to the tail of the pool so I could get a decent drift. About 3 casts later I saw a very subtle hit, setup and got the surprise of the day when the biggest salmon I’ve seen on the end of my line in about 3 or 4 years launched itself into the air and came off. I thought I’d broken him off, but I still had the fly. The fish was an easy 19-20" and very very fat. It also had the "river" salmon yellow belly. Mitch told me he’d had several hits before the kayaks came through on a streamer but that he hadn’t had any since. I gave Mitch one of Vern’s flies and he immediately caught a nice salmon, and several brook trout. In the meantime I lost another nice salmon, smaller than the first but still a nice fish. There were some little tiny green bodied bugs starting to swarm, they had little white wings and were small, if I had to tie one up I’d look for a #30 hook. They were flying up my nose, into my ears and were all over my arms when I realized that they were also biting. I rolled down my sleeves and went back to work as dark was coming on. I managed to miss a few and then a very fat 15-16" brookie as it got almost completly dark. The fish gave me a very strong run into the pool before coming to hand. Mitch and I decided that neither one of us could see good enough to fish so we headed back to the car. Not a bad afternoon’s trip. Flyfish

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My new next door neighbor has been talking about the Magalloway river since he moved in. He grew up in Bethel and also lived in Errol, NH for a couple of years and knows the area well so we headed up this afternoon. Seems to me that the tripper had tried to get me up there 10-12 years ago but I never made the trip. It’s about 100 mile trip from my house, we did it in about 1.5 hours, a nice scenic drive up through Grafton Notch. The Magalloway is a short river, running betweem Aziscohos Lake and Umbagog Lake. Umbagog is the same lake that the Rapid runs into. The Magalloway is a bit north of the Rapid. First we fished one of his favorite spots, right off Rt16 out of Errol (but back in Maine) a bend pool near a large field. Mitch didn’t get anything there but I unfortunately caught a smallie, about 12" and it had to be the healthiest smallie I’ve caught this year. So sadly, the smallies are running up the Magalloway as well as the Rapid. We moved to a pool upstream he called trout pool, where he guaranteed there were some good fish. On the short walk in we ran into a woman who was down with her dog to watch the kayakers. We got to the pool and Mitch told me to fish the head of the pool and he moved down the bank to the middle. After 10-15 mins 3 kayaks came down the river and immediately cut accross the pool in front of us. Then they started to play in the sluce where it dumped into the pool. They would go accross the main pool, sit on the other side, giggle, then one of them would come out and shoot through the pool again. It was deliberate and quite annoying. Things had gotten to where I was beginning to consider throwing rocks or whacking them on the helmut with my rod when they finally drifted downstream. I realize that rafters and kayakers are our allies in keeping the rivers clean and wild but these people needed to learn to give some consideration. After the twits left I decided to try a dry fly as I’d seen a couple fish hitting the top, so I tied on one of Vern’s reddish brown things and after a few casts decided to move to the tail of the pool so I could get a decent drift. About 3 casts later I saw a very subtle hit, setup and got the surprise of the day when the biggest salmon I’ve seen on the end of my line in about 3 or 4 years launched itself into the air and came off. I thought I’d broken him off, but I still had the fly. The fish was an easy 19-20" and very very fat. It also had the "river" salmon yellow belly. Mitch told me he’d had several hits before the kayaks came through on a streamer but that he hadn’t had any since. I gave Mitch one of Vern’s flies and he immediately caught a nice salmon, and several brook trout. In the meantime I lost another nice salmon, smaller than the first but still a nice fish. There were some little tiny green bodied bugs starting to swarm, they had little white wings and were small, if I had to tie one up I’d look for a #30 hook. They were flying up my nose, into my ears and were all over my arms when I realized that they were also biting. I rolled down my sleeves and went back to work as dark was coming on. I managed to miss a few and then a very fat 15-16" brookie as it got almost completly dark. The fish gave me a very strong run into the pool before coming to hand. Mitch and I decided that neither one of us could see good enough to fish so we headed back to the car. Not a bad afternoon’s trip. Flyfish

Good for you, Dave. Glad you got out and finally hit one of my favorite small streams up there, even if I couldn’t be there to enjoy it with you. Rapid next weekend! /daytripper (having another working weekend 8-(

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We moved to a pool upstream he called trout pool, where he guaranteed there were some good fish. On the short walk in we ran into a woman who was down with her dog to watch the kayakers. We got to the pool and Mitch told me to fish the head of the pool and he moved down the bank to the middle. After 10-15 mins 3 kayaks came down the river and immediately cut accross the pool in front of us. Then they started to play in the sluce where it dumped into the pool. They would go accross the main pool, sit on the other side, giggle, then one of them would come out and shoot through the pool again. It was deliberate and quite annoying. Things had gotten to where I was beginning to consider throwing rocks or whacking them on the helmut with my rod when they finally drifted downstream. I realize that rafters and kayakers are our allies in keeping the rivers clean and wild but these people needed to learn to give some consideration.

Dontcha just love ‘em.  My favourite is the asshole with a 100′ or more of river to work with, goes right through the run your fishing, then his 15 or so asshole friends follow him.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -After the twits left I decided to try a dry fly as I’d seen a couple fish hitting the top, so I tied on one of Vern’s reddish brown things and after a few casts decided to move to the tail of the pool so I could get a decent drift. About 3 casts later I saw a very subtle hit, setup and got the surprise of the day when the biggest salmon I’ve seen on the end of my line in about 3 or 4 years launched itself into the air and came off. I thought I’d broken him off, but I still had the fly. The fish was an easy 19-20" and very very fat. It also had the "river" salmon yellow belly. Mitch told me he’d had several hits before the kayaks came through on a streamer but that he hadn’t had any since. I gave Mitch one of Vern’s flies and he immediately caught a nice salmon, and several brook trout. In the meantime I lost another nice salmon, smaller than the first but still a nice fish. There were some little tiny green bodied bugs starting to swarm, they had little white wings and were small, if I had to tie one up I’d look for a #30 hook. They were flying up my nose, into my ears and were all over my arms when I realized that they were also biting. I rolled down my sleeves and went back to work as dark was coming on. I managed to miss a few and then a very fat 15-16" brookie as it got almost completly dark. The fish gave me a very strong run into the pool before coming to hand. Mitch and I decided that neither one of us could see good enough to fish so we headed back to the car. Not a bad afternoon’s trip. Flyfish

Sounds like a fun day despite the fiberglass hatch and the bitty bugs – that’s a nice brookie, btw. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

sniped, because of length… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We moved to a pool upstream he called trout pool, where he guaranteed there were some good fish. On the short walk in we ran into a woman who was down with her dog to watch the kayakers. We got to the pool and Mitch told me to fish the head of the pool and he moved down the bank to the middle. After 10-15 mins 3 kayaks came down the river and immediately cut accross the pool in front of us. Then they started to play in the sluce where it dumped into the pool. They would go accross the main pool, sit on the other side, giggle, then one of them would come out and shoot through the pool again. It was deliberate and quite annoying. Things had gotten to where I was beginning to consider throwing rocks or whacking them on the helmut with my rod when they finally drifted downstream. I realize that rafters and kayakers are our allies in keeping the rivers clean and wild but these people needed to learn to give some consideration.

Oh my God, I know that problem, on my club waters, there are days you can

Question:

ideal stream for a last minute fish as you are heading home (once, rachel waited in our packed car for 20 minutes while i had a "last fish" on our way home),

So the common thread here in your recent posts is that you are an expert at testing the patience of women  Hope Walt wasn’t beaten too severely for spending time with you instead of his lady. – Mu

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        on day 2, i explored some of the watauga county backroads, looking for new and remote streams, and found a couple areas i’ll try to convince walt to sample with me.  walt is an extraordinarily good fishing companion and has an ability to fish many of the tough areas…an ability i lack. one of the back roads intersected with the blue ridge parkway, which runs along a ridge above the valley in which my cabin sits.  i was close to a stream i literally fell into some years.  it runs beside the parkway at about 3000 feet elevation, but is about 30 to 50 feet below the parkway.  there are some large pull-offs and parking areas beside the road, so it’s not a hidden location by any means.  i discovered it years ago on the way from upper boone’s fork, frustrated with all the hikers and crowds in and around that stream, on the last day of a trip. determined to fish someplace new, but without much time to do so, i stopped, geared up, and proceeded to fall/trip/butt-bump/slide down a steep bank to within 10 feet of the stream.  rod unbroken, but spirit bent, i fished about 100 yards of a lovely stream, even with the sounds of traffic on the blue ridge parkway overhead.  it consisted of small holding or pocket waters with a nice gradient allowing adequate cover for a blundering buffoon like me to sneak up and float a dry fly.  i was stunned when i caught a 6 inch brook trout. since that trip, i have fished the stream on numerous occasions and always caught a brookie.  on this trip, in the 100 yards i usually fish, i caught 5 of the beauties.  i had always assumed it was necessary to find the remotest and highest locations in the blue ridge watersheds to catch wild brookies…but here they are in a stream beside the parkway, near privately owned meadows, and easily accessed by the general public in just a brief walk (or tumble) down a bank.  this is an ideal stream for a last minute fish as you are heading home (once, rachel waited in our packed car for 20 minutes while i had a "last fish" on our way home), or as an appetizer as you are heading for other waters.  it’s not on the delorme and as best i can tell is not stocked at all…i’ve never caught a stocked fish in it.           day 3, a bit hung over from last evening’s libations and with rainy weather coming in, i fished the stream in front of my cabin.  although it has some trout in it (i’ve caught a 10 inch rainbow and a 12 inch brown, and hooked and brought to hand a 20 inch brown with the most fearsome lower hook-jaw i’ve seen on ole salmo, it’s not good trout water in my area of the stream.  upstream about a mile, and for almost 6 miles, it’s a hatchery supported stream and gets a lot of pressure from spin fishers, especially the week after the hatchery trucks come through.  anyway, i took my 7′6" 4/5 weight St.Croix and fished about a mile with a black wooly bugger.  the stream holds a bunch of smallmouth bass and bluegill/redeye/bream(?)- panfish -, and i spent 4 hours disengaging the hook from copious quantities of the panfish and about 10 smallies, with the largest being 11 inches.  in some of the deeper pools, i saw some smallmouth i know were larger than 14 inches.  anyway, a nice day’s fishing within walking distance of the cabin and the comforts of she who must be obeyed. jeff

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Question:

Assuming that you didn’t set the rod in a corner or leave it in its aluminum tube in your car, I’d say that it sounds like insufficient heat-treating of the bamboo.  (Is the rod a "blonde" bamboo or darker?)  I’d say you should contact the manufacturer. George

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I recently purchased a fairly expensive 7′  3wt.custom bamboo rod.  After a few careful fishing excursions I noticed a slight curve has developed between the tip of the rod and the second eye from the top.  Is this a normal characteristic of bamboo or a quality or workmanship issue. Any advice greatly appreciated Tom Bogdan

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I recently purchased a fairly expensive 7′  3wt.custom bamboo rod.  After a few careful fishing excursions I noticed a slight curve has developed between the tip of the rod and the second eye from the top.  Is this a normal characteristic of bamboo or a quality or workmanship issue. Any advice greatly appreciated Tom Bogdan

Response:

It is completly normal and is called a "fishing set" or just a "set". Ways to avoid them is to occasionally turn the rod over when fighting a fish and make sure the rod is dry before putting it back in the tube. If you want to correct it you can heat the section with a hair dryer and hold the section straight until it cools or go fishing and catch a few fish playing them with the rod turned 180 degrees. Paul

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I recently purchased a fairly expensive 7′  3wt.custom bamboo rod.  After a few careful fishing excursions I noticed a slight curve has developed between the tip of the rod and the second eye from the top.  Is this a normal characteristic of bamboo or a quality or workmanship issue. Any advice greatly appreciated Tom Bogdan

Response:

I recently purchased a fairly expensive 7′  3wt.custom bamboo rod.  After a few careful fishing excursions I noticed a slight curve has developed between the tip of the rod and the second eye from the top.  Is this a normal characteristic of bamboo or a quality or workmanship issue.

The first couple of rods I built have both shown a proclivity towards a tip set. I think it was a combination of three things (1) poor workmanship (i.e. insufficient heat treating), (2) excessively long sections–both rods were 5 feet long with no ferrule, and (3) improper storage–I live in a very humid climate and I did not take steps to make sure the rods were kept dry. Since then I’ve built several rods with improvements in all three of the above shortcomings. So far none of those rods is any less straight today that it was when it was new (which is to say in some cases that they didn’t start out arrow straight to begin with–but that’s another topic . Assuming you haven’t horsed fish in (and it sounds like you’ve been careful), I would see if the builder would be willing to restraighten the rod for you at his expense. It might not stay straight, but the builder’s reaction will tell you a lot. As Paul mentioned in a different reply, you can do it yourself using a hair dryer and gentle pressure in the opposite direction of the set. The bottom line: if I were one day to start making rods professionaly, I would consider a tip set after only a couple of careful uses (assuming the rod is being stored correctly) to be a shortcoming in my heat-treating technique. –Steve

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It’s a quality and workmanship issue, return it! Vern – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I recently purchased a fairly expensive 7′  3wt.custom bamboo rod.  After a few careful fishing excursions I noticed a slight curve has developed between the tip of the rod and the second eye from the top.  Is this a normal characteristic of bamboo or a quality or workmanship issue. Any advice greatly appreciated Tom Bogdan

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s a quality and workmanship issue, return it! Vern I recently purchased a fairly expensive 7′  3wt.custom bamboo rod.  After a few careful fishing excursions I noticed a slight curve has developed between the tip of the rod and the second eye from the top.  Is this a normal characteristic of bamboo or a quality or workmanship issue. Any advice greatly appreciated Tom Bogdan

_______  You may be too hasty here.  This is what you need to do.  Look at the tip closely and make sure it has a good varnish finish on it, protecting the rod from getting wet inside. Sets in bamboo fly rods can be caused the same way as with graphite. Setting it in an upright position leaning against a corner or wall or having a bend in the tip over a long period of time.  Heat in the summer, beating down on any fly rod can cause tips or rods to take a set. With bamboo Tom, if you’re satisfied the finish is well done and the fly rod is not wet inside,  you can do this.  Set a hair dryer up to blow hot air.  Heat that section of the fly rod gently until the rod gets not warm, but hot.  Yet, not hot enough to burn it.  Hot enough to make it pliable.  Simply remove from heat and torque the bend or set out into opposite direction and hold it there until rod cools.  All bamboo fly rods are straightened like this Tom.  A master fly rod maker can’t pick up a fly rod without tweaking it time and again until it is finally finished and ready for delivery.   The heat will soften the glue enough so it will move molecularly.  It makes no difference it your have a $7,000 Bamboo Fly Rod or a Production Line fly rod – they all will take sets sooner or later. Permit me to offer you some sage advice.  Store your tip tops of your tips to the top of your tube next to the cork handle.  Regarding the bag with a cord to wrap them with?  DON’T use them.  Simply insert the rod with sock loosely into the tube.  Always try and keep your bamboo fly rods laying flat or straight and apart over long periods of time.  If you make a mental error regarding your tips and you get a set because they got too hot in the sun when under car glass, etc.  You can now fix the problem yourself. If you are not sure, send it too me and I will fix it for you for nothing.  What brand fly rod  it is, isn’t important. — George Gehrke/American Sportsman http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html http://www.gink.com/rod_facts/bastardjun00.html  LATEST BAMBOO FACTS "the saga continues"

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I have an Uncle who recently showed me a fly rod that he has had for 20 yrs. I have never heard of the name of the maker and I was hoping that someone out there could maybe help me find out what its worth and where it came from. I have searched the internet and haven’t found anything. Here is a list of what the rod says on it: Made by T. C. Ivens "The Ivens Farstrike" Made in London 9′ 4"     6# That is all the markings that are on the rod. Any help would be GREATLY appreciated. Please email me with any responses as I do not have a chance to check this newsgroup very often. Thanks for any help. Mark Blanks

Contact this web sit.  They may be able to answer your bamboo question.    http://www.gorp.com/bamboo.htm Good luck. Joel Axelrad Joel Axelrad

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Made by T. C. Ivens "The Ivens Farstrike" Made in London 9′ 4"     6#

Tom Ivens was not really a rod manufacturer but a well-known English angling writer (born 1922, author of Still Water Fly Fishing etc.)  Rods with his name are probably discussed in British magazines of the 1960s e.g. Trout and Salmon. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

Response:

I have an Uncle who recently showed me a fly rod that he has had for 20 yrs. I have never heard of the name of the maker and I was hoping that someone out there could maybe help me find out what its worth and where it came from. I have searched the internet and haven’t found anything. Here is a list of what the rod says on it: Made by T. C. Ivens "The Ivens Farstrike" Made in London 9′ 4"     6# That is all the markings that are on the rod. Any help would be GREATLY appreciated. Please email me with any responses as I do not have a chance to check this newsgroup very often. Thanks for any help. Mark Blanks

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While picking the brain of a more experienced fly fisherman today I was puzzled by a remark he made about bamboo rods.  He said the reason for two tips was to permit a tip to "rest".  According to him bamboo begins to lose power in the tip section after several hours of fishing and must be "rested" for a time. I find this improbable but would like to hear about the behavior of bamboo as a fly-rod material and any special care required. Wayne To fish is human…to release devine.

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Wayne wrote While picking the brain of a more experienced fly fisherman today I was puzzled by a remark he made about bamboo rods.  He said the reason for two tips was to permit a tip to "rest".  According to him bamboo begins to lose power in the tip section after several hours of fishing and must be "rested" for a time. I find this improbable but would like to hear about the behavior of bamboo as a fly-rod material and any special care required. Wayne To fish is human…to release devine.

The tip section gets what is known as a "set" a curve downward.  Especially if you catch a lot of big fish or have the rod overlined.  This curve (set) remains in the tip and would have to be straightened by a rod builder or person who is expert in the process.  If you have a twin tip rod it’s best to rotate the tips.  Resting them will not straighten them! Joel Axelrad

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The tip section gets what is known as a "set" a curve downward.  Especially if you catch a lot of big fish or have the rod overlined.  This curve (set) remains in the tip and would have to be straightened by a rod builder or person who is expert in the process.  If you have a twin tip rod it’s best to rotate the tips.  Resting them will not straighten them! Joel Axelrad

As well, one should consciously (and conscientiously) avoid applying prolonged unidirectional pressure on the tip section of your favorite cane rod, and rotate the rod about its long axis while playing in your catch (ie: half the time the reel should be below the rod, the other half it should be above). Awkward for certain, but every little bit will help keep your cane healthy and avoid the dreaded set. /dave

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Wayne wrote While picking the brain of a more experienced fly fisherman today I was puzzled by a remark he made about bamboo rods.  He said the reason for two tips was to permit a tip to "rest".  According to him bamboo begins to lose power in the tip section after several hours of fishing and must be "rested" for a time. I find this improbable but would like to hear about the behavior of bamboo as a fly-rod material and any special care required.

A set can happen for a lot of reasons, playing big fish or overlining the rod are but two fo them.  Leaning the rod in a corner, hanging it like a rifle, even the way the rod was made and the glue used could cause the tips or any section of the rod to take a set, especially if there was a weak flat in the section. As for two tips so that you can rotate them, well, that is partly true, but it very much depends on the rod.  A great many of the older, and even some newer rods are made with two tips to do various things.  Some had a Wet Fly action tip and a Dry Fly action tip.  Some were and are even produced to handle different line weights – say a 5 and a 7. As for bamboo losing power after a time, that happens after many years of fishing.  There is no need to rest a tip after a day of fishing. One other point about two tips comes up often, and that is that the second tip is an insurance policy against breakage.  Nice to have a spare tip when you are at a remote camp for a few days. Lastly, should a rod take a set, you can have it removed.  But chances are that the set will reapear in time.

Response:

While picking the brain of a more experienced fly fisherman today I was puzzled by a remark he made about bamboo rods.  He said the reason for two tips was to permit a tip to "rest".  According to him bamboo begins to lose power in the tip section after several hours of fishing and must be "rested" for a time. I find this improbable but would like to hear about the behavior of bamboo as a fly-rod material and any special care required.

Hi Wayne, Bamboo is an organic material which does soften up and wear out over time with hard use, but a few hours of casting is a bit of a stretch.  Also, because the material is no longer alive, It can’t repair itself or get stronger form resting.   The two tips were supplied because the tip  flexes the most and wears out the quickest. If you alternate the tips everytime you go out fishing it will typically take 50 years of hard fishing to soften them up to the point that you need to use a lighter line than the rod originally cast.  If you use the same tip all the time, it takes ~25 years of hard fishing to reach this point. this is a slow process and happens so gradually that the fly fisher rarely realizes it’s happened. It’s possible for the butt section to also soften up, but there is so much more material in the butt section, it is rare. Most people who used bamboo rods in their heyday, didn’t alternate the tips every time they went out.  They used one until they broke it (typically in a door of some kind)  and then used the other tip. If the rod was used a lot and fished with the same tip, using the other tip on makes the rod cast entirely differently.   When you look at such a rod, it’s usually pretty easy to determine which tip was used the most. Dependant upon what type of glue was used to make the rod, you can also put a set (or permanent bend) in the rod by fighting particulalry large fish for extended periods of time.  To counteract this, many who use bamboo rods will turn the rod over during the fight, and fight the fish with the reel above the rod instead of below it.  The idea was to even out the stress on the tip and keep it straight.  Still others will point to the set in their rod as a battle scar and saythings like, "You should have seen the fish that put that set in my rod — monster!!".  Most old, well used,  bamboo rods have some evidence of a set in them.  If the set gets bad enough to inhibit casting, it can be taken out with the judicious use of dry heat, preferably done by an experienced bamboo rod builder.                                  Hope this helps,                                        Dan Dan Gracia Orvis

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The answer to both of your questions is YES…..

Along with Larry’s good advice, in using cane pay attention to the varnish and other details. If there are nicks and problems moisture can get in and delaminate it so touch it up with spar varnish.  If you hear clicking from a ferrule take care of it before it works loose and causes a break. When playing a good sized fish turn the rod around so it’s not always bending the same direction, to prevent putting a permanent bend in it. And never ever put it away damp.  It is better for it to be out in the rain overnight than in a damp cloth sleeve in a closed tube. I am gradually switching to cane for most of my fishing. I enjoy the slower pace of casting. I enjoy the more substantial heft of the solid cane in the light rods compared to hollow rods that feel weightless. Solid cane is more rugged than hollow graphite when you step on it. You feel the line load the rod and the way the rod springs back to fling it.  Someone spent as much time to make the rods as I had to work to pay for them.  You can buy great cane rods that collectors shun for $100-200 because maybe someone broke an inch off the tip or rewrapped them without regard for color matching. Friday I used an old 8 wt. Granger on the North Umpqua and caught a 10 lb. wild steelhead. That rod might be too heavy to cast all day but I sit and watch a river half the time anyway, the best technique of all for success and enjoyment. My modern reel backlashed so I had to play it by hand and hold tight when it tried to run. I should have used a pflueger.  The rod had backbone to spare. The smile will last for months, regardless of how the Raiders play. I am more hoping we can get the Oakland A’s back in a few years. Mark Vinsel Oakland, CA www.vinsel.com

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Sorry but I just have to comment on the Traitor Raiders. Don’t watch them anymore, don’t care. Let them move back to LA. When a team can fill the stands and the owner still moves them because of pure greed, that team should no longer be supported by those that care. Same thing should have happened to the Baltimore Colts when they moved. Although football teams are privately owned, they take on the name of the city where they play, it wasn’t the A. Davis Raiders, It was the Oakland Raiders, in using the name, they owe something to the city and fans that supported them so well Jerry in Lodi (close to Oakland) http://www.softcom.net/users/dorado — ——- Hope you always have time to go fishing, Jerry in Lodi      Al & Jerry’s Excellent Adventures           http://www.softcom.net/users/dorado     Member: Save Our Stripers          http://www.softcom.net/users/dorado/sos.htm

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Yes, bamboo requires a much slower stroke than graphite. A good caster adjusts to the rod instead of finding a rod that he can cast. There are no more REAL Raiders.  It’s like the old saying "you can’t go home again".  Al Davis really stuck it to the taxpayers of Alameda County and we didn’t even get a chance to vote on the money we are paying for the pleasure of watching them loose.  It looks like they are going to repeat their loosing performance again this year. — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-Mail Selling my Fly Fishing Books Go to: http://users.ccnet.com/~emh – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The answer to both of your questions is YES….. Naturally, you’ll need to carefully inspect the rods for splits between the cane sections, tight ferrules, no unraveling wraps on the eyes and a tight reel seat. You need to handle the rod carefully, not to load it too much, make some nice gentle casts, say up to 30′ with it at first and then lengthen the line…..you will likely be surprised how smooth it feels and how well you feel the line straighten out behind you as opposed to graphite. The REAL Raiders had a glorious existence in OAKLAND, CALIFORNIA until their bonehead owner decided to "fool with Mother Nature"…he wasn’t making enough money, made ridiculous demands on the city and county who owned th estadium the Raiders played and won super bowl championships from and move the team to Los Angeles….they went into the former LA Coliseum which had ben renovated for the 84 olympics, never could fill it and failed to have much success playing there…..a few years back, they lied to the former city and county in which they won lots of fans and games, convinced them to rebiuld the stadium, sell "seat licenses"

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Well when you reach my age the first thing to go is your memory and I forgot what the second thing is. — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-Mail Selling my Fly Fishing Books Go to: http://users.ccnet.com/~emh – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Errol Mann is my investment broker….he doesn’t fish I remember George Blanda,I don’t remember Don.

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As a follow-up question to the group: Is it realistic to expect to use a 30 to 70 year old bamboo  rod for day to day fishing.  Even if in otherwise good condition would the moisture loss and case hardening of bamboo occur as in wood to reduce flexibility and increase internal friction damage? Thanks to the group for the excellent information about bamboo. Was there a football team called Raiders? Wayne To fish is human…to release devine.

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The answer to both of your questions is YES….. Naturally, you’ll need to carefully inspect the rods for splits between the cane sections, tight ferrules, no unraveling wraps on the eyes and a tight reel seat. You need to handle the rod carefully, not to load it too much, make some nice gentle casts, say up to 30′ with it at first and then lengthen the line…..you will likely be surprised how smooth it feels and how well you feel the line straighten out behind you as opposed to graphite. The REAL Raiders had a glorious existence in OAKLAND, CALIFORNIA until their bonehead owner decided to "fool with Mother Nature"…he wasn’t making enough money, made ridiculous demands on the city and county who owned th estadium the Raiders played and won super bowl championships from and move the team to Los Angeles….they went into the former LA Coliseum which had ben renovated for the 84 olympics, never could fill it and failed to have much success playing there…..a few years back, they lied to the former city and county in which they won lots of fans and games, convinced them to rebiuld the stadium, sell "seat licenses"

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I remember George Blanda,I don’t remember Don.

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Errol Mann is my investment broker….he doesn’t fish – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I remember George Blanda,I don’t remember Don.

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Larry, I remember Don Blanda, he used to fill in for Ken Stabler.  He was the oldest quarterback playing at that time, but normally was the Raiders place kicker.  Those were the good old days. — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-Mail Selling my Fly Fishing Books Go to: http://users.ccnet.com/~emh – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The 3 canes I have, all having two tips at least at ONE time, have tips of differing composition…I mean one of them being of a stouter material. There is/was a marked difference in the performance of the rods dependent on the tip used…I had always thought of it as a "nymphing tip" and a "dry fly tip", that’s how different the action of the rods were. I still take one cane out each trip, and get it maybe a half hour of action, but then they go back to rest, with a brandy and a cigar…..=8^) I refer to them as my "Blanda Rods" for those of you with remembrances of Raiders football in the late 60s – early 70s. Larry #:)#

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The 3 canes I have, all having two tips at least at ONE time, have tips of differing composition…I mean one of them being of a stouter material. There is/was a marked difference in the performance of the rods dependent on the tip used…I had always thought of it as a "nymphing tip" and a "dry fly tip", that’s how different the action of the rods were. I still take one cane out each trip, and get it maybe a half hour of action, but then they go back to rest, with a brandy and a cigar…..=8^) I refer to them as my "Blanda Rods" for those of you with remembrances of Raiders football in the late 60s – early 70s. Larry #:)#

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I always thought the idea of two tips was that the tip is the most likely the section to get  broken. — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-Mail Selling my Fly Fishing Books Go to: http://users.ccnet.com/~emh – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – While picking the brain of a more experienced fly fisherman today I was puzzled by a remark he made about bamboo rods.  He said the reason for two tips was to permit a tip to "rest".  According to him bamboo begins to lose power in the tip section after several hours of fishing and must be "rested" for a time. I find this improbable but would like to hear about the behavior of bamboo as a fly-rod material and any special care required. Wayne To fish is human…to release devine.

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While picking the brain of a more experienced fly fisherman today I was puzzled by a remark he made about bamboo rods.  He said the reason for two tips was to permit a tip to "rest".  According to him bamboo begins to lose power in the tip section after several hours of fishing and must be "rested" for a time.

I can’t speak as to bamboo rods (mine having only one tip each, but not normally used continuously for more than a couple of hours) — but fibreglass rods seemed to become "fatigued" after a day’s continuous use.  I first noticed this in cold weather (air temp 30 to 40 deg. F.) fishing for Great Lakes steelhead with a Fenwick fibreglass rod about 1970.  It seemed important enough that when I got a second state-of-the-art glass rod I used to swap after 3 or 4 hours. This fatigue phenomenon has not been observed in graphite rods (Loomis and no-brand IM6.)  But then I have not for 20 years flogged the water continuously all day long when fishing for fall steelhead, being physically weaker and more experienced . . . . — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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Question:

Could anyone out there tell me what you need to preserve feathers? A friend told me that you could preserve them with borax.  We have not yet been able to come up with a mixture ratio for this material.  Are there other preservatives which could be used? First task is to remove all fat or flesh from the skin.  When this is done, some tyers do not bother with any preservative, since they are not going to use the skin for any purpose, i.e. it does not need to stay flexible.

No, but it does need to be bug resistant.  I find that soaking bird or mammal skins in a saturated borax solution* and then drying them in a tray full of borax bug-proofs them without the use of anything smelly or toxic. *Fill a pail with hot water.  Add borax (plain unscented washing soda) and stir.  Keep adding borax until no more will dissolve.  Cool to room temperature. Soak your skins. Keep your stick on the ice, Thos.

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Could anyone out there tell me what you need to preserve feathers?

snip….. snip…. No, but it does need to be bug resistant.  I find that soaking bird or mammal skins in a saturated borax solution* and then drying them in a tray full of borax bug-proofs them without the use of anything smelly or toxic. *Fill a pail with hot water.  Add borax (plain unscented washing soda) and stir.  Keep adding borax until no more will dissolve.  Cool to room temperature. Soak your skins.

Here’s another method that has worked well for me. Scrape all fat off the underside of the skin. Tack the skin to a board or piece of cardboard with the feathers down. Make sure the feathers are dry and arranged the way you want them before you do this. Sprinkle dry borax on the scraped skin surface covering all exposed skin. Be generous with the Borax. It will absorb water out of the skin. I kind of pile it on. Let it sit out for a few days to a few weeks. I don’t know the minimum time because I often set these out in the garage or basement and forget them for a while. A low humidity area would be best. When the skin is crinkly dry, untack it and brush off the borax and you are done. For a final treatment, put it in a plastic baggy and run it through several freeze-thaw cycles in order to kill any remaining resident insects. Cheers. Jon

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I’ve used footpowder to "cure" moose hide and it really works. Don’t see why it wouldn’t do the same thing on capes :O)  It’s also inexpesive and goes a long ways. Keith P

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Could anyone out there tell me what you need to preserve feathers? A friend told me that you could preserve them with borax.  We have not yet been able to come up with a mixture ratio for this material.  Are there other preservatives which could be used? Also,  I would like to dye some of the capes.  Have heard that you should dye at the same time the felts are being cured? Any information on this procedure would be very appreciated. Trout Bum.

I just use plain old course salt.  Just spread the salt generously over the hyde and lay out in the sun, feather side down of course.  The saly draws out the moisture and the sun evaporates it.  After the skin is dry I shake off the excess salt then dust with talcum powder.  I still have pelts from pheasant season of two years ago, works great for me.                                                         Spy in Hawaii

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Could anyone out there tell me what you need to preserve feathers? A friend told me that you could preserve them with borax.  We have not yet been able to come up with a mixture ratio for this material.  Are there other preservatives which could be used?

Hi BB, Years ago, I had some young customers that would go to the local live stock auction and bid on old roosters. They said they paid about $2 to $3 for live birds. They killed and skinned them. They tacked the skins feather side down, skin side up on a wood surface. They used salt to dry up and cure the skins. After they are real dry and stiff, I would put them into an airtight container or a big zip lock bag. As far as dying the feathers goes, you can use Rite or Vinyards(sp) dye. It is an art and not many do it well. The skin/feathers have to be clean, de-greased and moistened to except the dye. You put the dye into water and control the temperature so as to not ‘burn’ or ‘cook’ the feathers. I think we added something like rubbing alcohol to set the dye? You need very white hackle if you are looking for bright colors. Black is very hard to get. It can turn out purple. I hear about ‘cold’ dying processes. Good luck and have fun. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

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Hi, The method I used to preserve some pheasant skins was to scrape off as much fat as possible with a *non-serated edge* butter knife, stretch out and tack the skin feather side down, rub out and let dry with rock salt (usually 2 or 3 applications) and finally to cover the remaining almost-clean skin with borax. Then I let it dry in the garage for about 2 weeks.   Then I put them in a zip-lock bag.  Still have some of one skin left after ~12 years.

**SNIP** As far as dying the feathers goes, you can use Rite or Vinyards(sp) dye. It is an art and not many do it well. The skin/feathers have to be clean, de-greased and moistened to except the dye. You put the dye into water and control the temperature so as to not ‘burn’ or ‘cook’ the feathers. I think we added something like rubbing alcohol to set the dye? You need very white hackle if you are looking for bright colors. Black is very hard to get. It can turn out purple. I hear about ‘cold’ dying processes. Good luck and have fun.

To get a decent black with RIT dye you also have to add some brown into the mix.  Added a bit of Vinegar to set the dye (insturctions on the package). Like Bill said, you have to be careful with the temperatures (use a candy thermometer) or you can ruin some great feathers.   This is a very messy process but is worth the effort if you can’t get what you need locally and you can dye a bunch of stuff at once.  A.K. Best has a book out on dying materials that is quite good if your interested.                                   Good Fishing,                                         Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools Mt. Shasta Fly Fishing Schools http://www.thegrid.net/flyfish

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Could anyone out there tell me what you need to preserve feathers? A friend told me that you could preserve them with borax.  We have not yet been able to come up with a mixture ratio for this material.  Are there other preservatives which could be used? Also,  I would like to dye some of the capes.  Have heard that you should dye at the same time the felts are being cured?   Any information on this procedure would be very appreciated. Trout Bum.

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Could anyone out there tell me what you need to preserve feathers? A friend told me that you could preserve them with borax.  We have not yet been able to come up with a mixture ratio for this material.  Are there other preservatives which could be used?

First task is to remove all fat or flesh from the skin.  When this is done, some tyers do not bother with any preservative, since they are not going to use the skin for any purpose, i.e. it does not need to stay flexible. Also,  I would like to dye some of the capes.  Have heard that you should dye at the same time the felts are being cured?  

See Eric Leiser’s Fly Tying Materials (1973) or other books.  The main points seem to be preliminary rinse with a mordant, to maximize dye’s effect, and then control of temperature to avoid cooking (the way egg white is transformed by high temperature.) — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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Question:

I don’t think I would have known or appreciated the difference between the $30.00 rod and my Sage. The next year I bought the Sage having the knowledge to appreciate the difference.

Me too- only the other way around. After having fished with the high-falootin LLs and RPls for a couple of years, a buddy of mine who mfgs IM6 kits gave me two of his 99 dollar wonder rods. Now I wonder why the hell I spent all that loot for the Sage sticks.   Just shows to go ya.

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If you can still find one, a Fenwick Eagle or one of Cabela’s lessor priced rods might be a good by to start with.  Or be a MAN and get an Eagle Claw 4 piece fiberglass Spin/Fly rod for 7 wt. line.  This thing weighs in the pounds, not ounces, and if you use one all day your arm will simply fall off!  This rod will make you appreciate any dedicated graphite fly rod.  I have found that as I acquired better technique, I could truly tell the difference in rods.  As in all hobbies, you will find among fly fishers a certain group of "reverse" snobs who seem to feel that the only way to be a true disciple is to disdain anything top quality as being "too expensive" and "not worth it" and "a Dildofly Deluxe form K-Marts is just as good as a Thomas & Thomas" or "Orvis makes junk". etc.  They use crap and then belittle everything else in order to justify their choice.  I have all kinds of rods and the best feeling and casting rods are also the most expensive, a Sage SP 9′ 6 wt and a R.L. Winston LT 9′ 5 wt.  My other stuff is good but these are the cream of the crop.  Save your money and buy what you want. Don’t let some yo-yo tell you what a dumbass you are for buying quality.  I’m sure this will infuriate some folks but as my ol’ daddy once said, "Po’ folks have Po’ ways." – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So did anyone have any suggestions for good rods in this price range. I recently saw an article in a magazine calling a pflueger rod a best buy but I can’t remember the model name of the rod. Jason, I would suggest that you try a Cortland setup, or one of the starter kits from Cabela’s. I’ve seen both for less than $100.00 and I’ve used them – they work fine. I’ve been flamed regularly for suggesting inexpensive (as opposed to cheap) flyfishing gear, but I really believe it’ll work well for you. Get an inexpensve setup and practice, practice, practice. Frank Longtine                           The Second Amendment protects your liberties, 1984 Ford                                 not your hunting rights. 1997 Rokon Trail Breaker 1993 Specialized Stumjumper Two Good Feet

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try HI_TECh tackle at 414/268-9665, very favorably review in FR&R, March 1996, for (can you guess?) 40.00 to 54.99, I have 3 from 4 to 6 wt.  great back up or beginners rods.  Made in Korea

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So did anyone have any suggestions for good rods in this price range. I recently saw an article in a magazine calling a pflueger rod a best buy but I can’t remember the model name of the rod. Thanks in advance, Jason Schwartz

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So did anyone have any suggestions for good rods in this price range. I recently saw an article in a magazine calling a pflueger rod a best buy but I can’t remember the model name of the rod.

Jason, I would suggest that you try a Cortland setup, or one of the starter kits from Cabela’s. I’ve seen both for less than $100.00 and I’ve used them – they work fine. I’ve been flamed regularly for suggesting inexpensive (as opposed to cheap) flyfishing gear, but I really believe it’ll work well for you. Get an inexpensve setup and practice, practice, practice. Frank Longtine                           The Second Amendment protects your liberties,   1984 Ford                                 not your hunting rights.       1997 Rokon Trail Breaker                       1993 Specialized Stumjumper Two Good Feet

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I’ll second that. I started out with a $30.00 rod. It worked just fine for my first year of fly fishing. When I first started out, I don’t think I would have known or appreciated the difference between the $30.00 rod and my Sage. The next year I bought the Sage having the knowledge to appreciate the difference.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -So did anyone have any suggestions for good rods in this price range. I recently saw an article in a magazine calling a pflueger rod a best buy but I can’t remember the model name of the rod. Jason, I would suggest that you try a Cortland setup, or one of the starter kits from Cabela’s. I’ve seen both for less than $100.00 and I’ve used them – they work fine. I’ve been flamed regularly for suggesting inexpensive (as opposed to cheap) flyfishing gear, but I really believe it’ll work well for you. Get an inexpensve setup and practice, practice, practice. Frank Longtine

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Question:

shouldn’t rely on high sounding principles of international/maritime law.

Rely instead on the law of gross tonnage… Andy La Varre **** Join the fight against spam!             details at http://www.cauce.org

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but they never requested permission to board…

In this case they just wanted to see the boat It was a very pretty little boat, at 31 feet in St. Katherine’s Yacht Haven a very long way from home, so they were curious… Andy La Varre **** Join the fight against spam!             details at http://www.cauce.org

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Snip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In reality, the combination of the fact that you are in their country and they are (heavily) armed usually infers automatic permission. Officials, by marine law, have the right to board a vessel "for just cause" -they usually decide what that means. A "warship" just has an advantage over pleasure boats in that it is heavily armed and carries its own "army" with it to enforce their rights. The bottom line is that, as others have stated, when in someone else’s country we should all behave as good guests, not as obnoxious tourists. Mel Haylock         Mel is correct. Any flagged(documented) pleasure vessel has territoral status. However, there are so many loopholes in Martime Law as to almost render that status moot when in foreign territoral waters. Add to that treaties with other countries that transfer authority to the foreign power for ships in the others waters. You best just be cool and not try to invoke Miranda, ie. be a hard ass.         If you are on the high seas, that is another story. Flagged vessels have the obligatory protection of all US armed forces. Or if they under protective escort by a warship in foreign territoral waters. Like Mel say, a warship has the where-with-all to make a hard ass point that skews the rules a bit. — Mark Fay Home OS/2 Merlin User ISDN & BitSurfer Pro S/V Enough Morgan 44 CC No. 1051223 If you’re right, Mark, how comes customs in any country will come on board a merchant ship or pleasure yacht, search the boat for contraband, seal the "spirits locker", etc. John

  Read the above John in particular the phrase ‘Just Cause’ which is open to the host nations interpritation. Peter

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Well, yes and no. First of all I assume, that you are an US citizen and you are sailing under the US flag (not the other way round, i.e. visiting the US). Actual procedures will vary from state to state. But as a general rule you can import whatever is allowed by the law of your home state. Once you are checking in at the imigration harbor local authorities will seal any equipment or supply, that does not comply with local laws. You are not allowed to break the seal until you are checking out again. Doing so will get you into serious trouble! So, sorry, no alcohol in moslem states. Also note, that most states have a very particular view about weapons. The most friendly custom or imigration officer may become all business and decide to search you boat for hours. And hiding a gun is a save way to inspect local prisons. Even for a flare gun you will need an allowance in e.g. Germany. How sovereign? You are under full jurisdiction of local authorities once you crossed the border between the open sea and coastal waters. jue — J

Question:

can you tell me anything about fly fishing

"Fly fishing is a simple game.  You cast the fly.  You retrieve the fly. You catch the fish"                                                    My apologies to the movie "Bull Durham" — Gordon Churchill Flyfish NC http://www.planet-nc.com/flyfishnc/ Striped Bass on the Roanoke River, Hybrids on Jordan Lake, Largemouths on surface.  Pickup and dropoff in Research Triangle Park

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can you tell me anything about fly fishing

It can be expensive

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can you tell me anything about fly fishing

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Hi Peter, Could you be a little more specific? Fly Fishing is a method of fishing that has a span from 2 oz blue gills to 150 pound tarpon and just about any fish you can think of? Do you want to get started? First suggestion hang around and read this news group. Second take a trip to the library. Third come on back to the group and post your questions. Good fishing, Dennis — Dennis C. Aron Independent Representative #13921 Champion Fishing Co., Ltd e-mail for business opportunity – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – can you tell me anything about fly fishing

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Question:

 Should I buy a Sage Discovery or  St. Croix’s, top of  the line, Legend which cost’s as much as the Sage

 Is there a noticeable difference  between the two rods that would aid or hinder a biginning caster?

  I also looked at the St. Croix Imperial,  for a $120.  Are there any other rods that I should be aware of?

Go to the flyshop and ask to try them.  Most shops will gladly let you do that.  There is a very big difference between these rods.  I haven’t tried the Sage Discovery but I use St.Croix rods a lot.  There are significant differences in the action of the Legend, Imperial and Pro.  You need to determine how fast or slow you want the action.  That’s best done by casting and it’s best to be able to stand there and go from one to the other so you feel the difference.

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I have a $200 credit at a local FF shop, which carries Sage, G. Loomis, and St. Croix rods. Should I buy a Sage Discovery or  St. Croix’s, top of the line, Legend which cost’s as much as the Sage (I couldn’t find a Loomis rod, in stock, for under $200)?  Is there a noticeable difference between the two rods that would aid or hinder a biginning caster?  Would I soon "out-grow" the Sage rod?  I also looked at the St. Croix Imperial, for a $120.  Are there any other rods that I should be aware of? I would welcome any advice, to help me choose a rod? Thank you  in advance.    

Take your $200, add about 50 bucks to it and buy a Loomis GL3.  The GL3 is in a whole other class than the Sage DS or St, Croix. John Woodling Sacramento, CA

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Go with the St. Croix. Both their lower end rods are the same in fact, but one comes with a fancy rod tube and wood reel seat, otherwise no difference. They’re all great rods. i suggest not buying their top of the line model if you’re just getting started. It’s a bit faster then the other and not really necessary. As far as outgrowing it, not a problem. But eventually you will want to expand you collection inot different weights and lengths — all part of the mania. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m just getting into fly fishing and will be buying my first rod (a 8′ 6" 5-6 wt) shortly.   I have a $200 credit at a local FF shop, which carries Sage, G. Loomis, and St. Croix rods. Should I buy a Sage Discovery or  St. Croix’s, top of the line, Legend which cost’s as much as the Sage (I couldn’t find a Loomis rod, in stock, for under $200)?  Is there a noticeable difference between the two rods that would aid or hinder a biginning caster?  Would I soon "out-grow" the Sage rod?  I also looked at the St. Croix Imperial, for a $120.  Are there any other rods that I should be aware of? I would welcome any advice, to help me choose a rod? Thank you  in advance.     Rick

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: I have a $200 credit at a local FF shop, which carries Sage, G. Loomis, : and St. Croix rods. Should I buy a Sage Discovery or  St. Croix’s, top of : the line, Legend which cost’s as much as the Sage (I couldn’t find a : Loomis rod, in stock, for under $200)?  Is there a noticeable difference : between the two rods that would aid or hinder a biginning caster?  Would I : soon "out-grow" the Sage rod?  I also looked at the St. Croix Imperial, : for a $120.  Are there any other rods that I should be aware of? If that flyshop that you have credit at won’t let you take the rods outside to practice cast them, take your credit elsewhere! My experience has been that the customer may like the cheaper outfit better than the top-of-the-line stuff!  We always give people the opportunity to cast a rod before buying it. That way, they know exactly what they are getting. they are all good rods that you are considering. Jon Porter

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m just getting into fly fishing and will be buying my first rod (a 8′ 6" 5-6 wt) shortly.   I have a $200 credit at a local FF shop, which carries Sage, G. Loomis, and St. Croix rods. Should I buy a Sage Discovery or  St. Croix’s, top of the line, Legend which cost’s as much as the Sage (I couldn’t find a Loomis rod, in stock, for under $200)?  Is there a noticeable difference between the two rods that would aid or hinder a biginning caster?  Would I soon "out-grow" the Sage rod?  I also looked at the St. Croix Imperial, for a $120.  Are there any other rods that I should be aware of? I would welcome any advice, to help me choose a rod? Thank you  in advance.     Rick

Hi Rick, the comparison you make is one between a Geo Metro (St. Croix) and a lower class Porsche (SAGE rod). What do you mean with outgrow. = The SAGE performs so well that you will probably never outgrow this rod. A few years ago is was the state-of-the-art rod before the = development of the Graphite3-material. If you want a little bit more in performance choose the SAGE over the St. Croix. The SAGE is = a much better balanced rod with lots of backbone to cast a whole line with a weighted stonefly nymph and enough sensitivity to fish = for large finicky trout with a small midge imitation. The 9ft 8wt DS is my standard rod for striper. It’s not overly stiff so that I=  have a kind of buffer to fight a large fish and still can throw a whole fly line. The 8ft5wtDS is a great trout and grayling rod wh= ich allows a smooth presentation and roll-casting far beyond the usual fishing distance. Some of the high end St. Croix might be a little bit stiffer and might outperform the SAGE on really long casts but sacrifice on smo= othness and sensitivity in the short distance range. If you really want a good rod for under $200 there is only one choice: SAGE (BTW, there are not many choices over $200- No, I am not=  a SAGE affiliate; I am only casting, fishing, and comparing other rods from time to time and the rods where I usually end (because = they outperform others by far) is …. – except split cane, of course!)            Thomas

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: I got a Scientific Anglers kit at Wall Mart for $50.00. It seems to work : just fine. I’m so inexperienced I don’t think I would know a good rod from : a bad. My next door neighbor is teaching me to cast and that has really : helped. Trust me.  You would know a really great rod from a really bad one. But the Sci. Anglers are pretty good starter kits.  Even better are the Redington Redstart kits ($100 with a lifetime warrantee). — Laboratory for Applied Logic    Dept. of Computer Science University of Idaho             www: http://www.cs.uidaho.edu/~foster —–BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK—– Version: 2.6.2 mQCNAzDtvLEAAAEEAKAC21G2Be0K0DMgjLpxrwLmsYfCz8rWcfgyABjr3Ryfk1dO nV7fFFpUF3xohR7die+/B2V9oqRQzTLeSF2ECKlsTY/yUyw2kn+P2ju1umh4Fwzd cVTvc+H69q1+Ft3kmw/PE0Pan+g0PUGGJ43stw3q4OgBHdixbRd/f9giJFDxAAUR tCZKYW1lcyBBLiBGb3N0ZXIgPGZvc3RlckBjcy51aWRhaG8uZWR1PokAlQMFEDD8 ReEXf3/YIiRQ8QEBFrAD/2AFuRWcD/3MENC3qJMC/Or1qxknjkK7Uv+TDf2LHPOY GHBbG9PyWuXQ8of0Dd+JYwf/tzlO9Yk1s1zTdikfriak21FW0bCokxDIhA3myppZ IZDWVA9CyvDYHuP5Ii1NkBvocab813JzDLZA+0iVN5sebGb9zSXR4Za47hlriHeP =RDHK —–END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK—–

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I got a Scientific Anglers kit at Wall Mart for $50.00. It seems to work just fine. I’m so inexperienced I don’t think I would know a good rod from a bad. My next door neighbor is teaching me to cast and that has really helped. Stumbling along the fly fishing stream Ed

in 5 years that 500 rod will feel foriegn and that 50 bucker will fit like worn tennis shoes…

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Call Cabelas and ask if they still have their 95′ models on sale for up to 50% off. I spent $150.00 for mine a couple of weeks ago and couldn’t ask for a better rod. It casts similarly to the GL3 by Loomis in my opinion, and you get 60 free days to try it. Good luck.DLowe

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I got a Scientific Anglers kit at Wall Mart for $50.00. It seems to work just fine. I’m so inexperienced I don’t think I would know a good rod from a bad. My next door neighbor is teaching me to cast and that has really helped. Stumbling along the fly fishing stream Ed

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Should I buy a Sage Discovery or  St. Croix’s, top of  the line, Legend which cost’s as much as the Sage Is there a noticeable difference  between the two rods that would aid or hinder a biginning caster?  I also looked at the St. Croix Imperial,  for a $120.  Are there any other rods that I should be aware of?

Well, over the past several months I have made several posts in favor of St. Croix Legends as a good economical alternative fly rod.  I am by no means an expert fly caster, but I do end up at the practice ponds 3 to 4 times a week after work trying to nail down the proper technique.   I purchased, within the past 9 months, 3 St. Croix Legend fly rods.  A 4 weight, 6 weight, and 8 weight.  The 4 and 6 were offered to me for a very very good price, so I bit and planned to use them as backup rods since I am a little rough with fishing equipment.  My findings:  the Legends are indeed stiff (fast), and I needed to go up at least one complete line weight to load the rod the way I prefer. In fact, I was so disappointed in the 6 weight as a big open water trout rod that I have now resorted to using it as a shad rod with a 7 or 8 shooting head, which BTW, is working out very very nicely to my surprise. The 4 weight was originally a 3/4, but no way is it a 3 weight.  In fact, St. Croix uses this blank for ‘95 as a their standard 4 weight.  I get best results with a 5 line.  The 8 weight is good and is my first 8 weight rod, a learning rod, and to use for those ocassional trips for stripers here in Calif. I chose St. Croix after comparing it with the GL3.  I have been tossing a 9 shooting head and can CONTROL my loops and get 80-90 feet before my running line gets its usual attitude.  The accomplished casters have taken the same rod and tossed 120 feet plus, so it ain’t the rod.  For heavy applications, the Legends, like the GL3s, are solid economical choices, just heavy.  Heed the advice of others, try the rods out with a sales person that will take the time to check if your casting properly with good techinique because all fly rods will feel like crap if your not casting properly. Believe me, when I go to the practice ponds with my RPLs, LLs and the Legends, I would rather be throwing the RPLs and LLs.  The motto, you get what you pay for just like most other things in life.   — Howard P/S  Those new Lamiglass LHS-2 are very nice and worth consideration, but I don’t know their price point.

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: Take your $200, add about 50 bucks to it and buy a Loomis GL3.  The GL3 is : in a whole other class than the Sage DS or St, Croix. I have to respectfully disagree with John.  Many beginners get frustrated with that first year of *very* few fish.  I would start cheap and then buy up if you decide the sport is for you.  I’ve used the Sage Discovery and think it is a pretty good buy for a new guy and if you stay with it, can be used in the future for an inexperienced buddy you drag along after you purchase better.  I also think the Reddington Redspot is a true bargain at $99.00.  Rick Bob says check it out. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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Question:

Did anyone see the segment on the opening of "trout" season in Missouri on the Osgood show this AM?  Call me a snob if you wish, but I thought the show was somewhere between disgusting and hilarious. Why don’t they save everyone the trouble, and give all applicants vouchers for 5 free trout at the local fish market? I’d love to hear your comments. Some sport there.

I’m a Missouri fly fisherman. Those openings in the trout parks are a tradition in this state, and the way I see it, the trout stamps and the one-day tags those folks buy pay for  the care of some pretty good water elsewhere that those crowds prob’ly don’t even know exist… Bob –

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I’m from Missouri and fish often at the state trout parks. I didn’t see the show but can imagine what it looked like. 3000 people isn’t unusual for opening day. No, I don’t consider you a snob. I don’t go to opening day and haven’t for 20 years. It’s a circus. The trout parks serve a purpose for us in Missouri (where are you from?) in that most of our water is too warm to support trout. There are some streams in the Ozarks that have trout but they are few and far between. So, during the summer, rather than not go at all a lot of us frequent the trout parks. After the crowd dies down. But, the best time is during the winter. We have a winter season from Oct. to Feb. Catch and Release only. That keeps most people away. I’ve been there when there were only 30 – 40 people on the entire stream. In some areas of the country that still would be a lot but it’s the best we have. Anyhow, one trip last winter my son and I were all alone for as far as we could see. No fish are stocked during the winter but there are some left over from the season stocking. Good luck, and tight lines.

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The State of MO is providing a product that is obviously in great demand. The people were all there by choice, I’m assuming. The funds generated at the four MO "trout parks" provide a big dose of bucks to the conservation efforts in MO. Also, if you’ve ever taken an eight year-old fishing only to have them give up after 15 minutes, you can appreciate the trout parks even more. Almost guaranteed results can be a real boon to a child.  My nephew vividly remembers a trip we to one of these parks. He’s kept his enthusiasm, in part to his success at a park I hope, through many fishless days. No, you won’t catch me at opening day. Nor will you see me there unless I’m there with a kid. And that will be mid-week. John Nesselrode Shawnee, KS

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 if you’ve ever taken an eight year-old fishing only to have them give up after 15 minutes, you can appreciate the trout parks even more. Almost guaranteed results can be a real boon to a child.  My nephew vividly remembers a trip we to one of these parks. He’s kept his enthusiasm, in part to his success at a park I hope, through many fishless days. No, you won’t catch me at opening day. Nor will you see me there unless I’m there with a kid. And that will be mid-week.

John, I agree. My 12-year old has very vivid memories of a couple of trips we made to one of the parks.  It’s a marvelous way to introduce kids to fly fishing. Bob

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