Question:

Is there any web, catalog or other reliable source for fly fishing and/or fly tying supplies? Ebay is becoming chancy at best(I always lose the euipement I want at the last minute)! Thanks for any help.

You should check out Hook & Hackle at hookhack.com. When you order from their web site, you get 20% off of listed prices, and free shipping with an order over $200. They care for the customer, and if you have a problem with an order, they set it right. They have fly fishing, fly tying and rod building gear at normal prices as well as web specials, but when you factor in the 20% off, they can’t be beat (and I’m a real cheapskate!). ie: Loomis IMX blanks at list price, but they give you free components, about a $50 value.

Response:

Is there any web, catalog or other reliable source for fly fishing and/or fly tying supplies? Ebay is becoming chancy at best(I always lose the euipement I want at the last minute)! Thanks for any help.

Response:

Is there any web, catalog or other reliable source for fly fishing and/or fly tying supplies?

http://www.ezflyfish.com/ http://www.cabelas.com/ (also has a fly fishing catalog) http://www.orvis.com/ http://www.basspro-shops.com/ in that order, IMHO. — HTH, Tim

Response:

Is there any web, catalog or other reliable source for fly fishing and/or fly tying supplies? Ebay is becoming chancy at best(I always lose the euipement I want at the last minute)! Thanks for any help.

    Frank,          Internet Outdoors has some good prices…I bought my float tube on sale from Cabella’s and afterwards I saw that Internet Outdoors was $20 cheaper!  They are dedicated to other sports as well as fishing, also.  Check them out.  Here is the address… http://www.shopoutdoors.com/

Response:

Question:

Something like this happened to me. As I am an avis fly fisherman for atlantic salmon and sea trout, I used to fish a remote strech of a river. Over the years I discovered many spots that regularily hold sea trouts but does not look appealing to fish so the majority of other fisherman pass over them without stopping. I teached a coworker how to fly fish and bring him there with me many time the first years together so he also knew my best spots. The year after he bring one of his friend and another one who bring another one…  This gave me a good lesson.When you want a secret to stay secret, keep it for you. — Carol Dugas Caplan Quebec

Response:

Over the years I discovered many spots that regularily hold sea trouts but does not look appealing to fish so the majority of other fisherman pass over them without stopping.

In what way did it look unappealing?  What first made you decide to fish there? Mu

Response:

Question:

My friends, lend me your eyes. But it WILL require EVERYONE to cooperate, or the effort is doomed to fail.

Definitely worth a try. George and Co. have never got under my skin (mind you I do see how they can), but I suspect a little tolerance and a big dose of common sense could see us get through. Like the trout we talk often about, we need to be more selective in the lures or baits that we take – and ignore the baits some Cheers JK

Response:

(snipped)

Dave, Add a clause that I am to have all of my deposit retuned in FULL! If you would please. I would like this corrected before moving on. HT

Response:

______  Not fair Mark.  Very undeserving, especially from someone that should be a fair minded attorney? sigh* MR. G. — http://www.gink.com/chat

Response:

We’ll simply leave the past in the past – where it belongs – while implicitly forgiving the transgressions that may have taken place in that time. No apologies required by anyone; everyone saves face by default.

This would work if folks had learned anything from what happened in the past, but I don’t think that’s true in all cases. Forgetting the past is a dangerous thing, especially in this case which is in its’ umpteenth cycle in the little passion play called roff. My advice is to ignore the trolls but continue to be wary of the troller (the poetry could start again, you know<g). — Charlie…

Response:

What I’m proposing is the group allows George a fresh start – and that in turn, George not abuse that act of faith and trust.

Sounds good to me. Will it work? Unlikely, but let’s give it a shot. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Well said, Peter.  This is not a matter of anti-George or pro-George.  The guy has a screw loose, and as much as I enjoy picking on him occasionally it is not good for either of us.  Time to treat him like the meower. Mark Faulkner – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [genuine, noble effort snipped] Sincerely – and with great hope, /dave tatosian (aka daytripper) Trip, I’ve met a few men like George in my life and in all the time I knew them, they never changed for the better.  After all, why change when you’re perfect.  :)  Anyway, for any peace to accrue in these parts, we simply have to give George’s spamming and trolling the same consideration as we’ve given the meower.  The most important thing in George’s life is to be the constant centre of everyone’s attention. Forty and fifty post threads with the subject "Mr. G." are his lifeblood.  George cannot post without taunting and boasting about his stuff anymore than I’d qualify for the clergy.  Given that, it’s up to the rest of us to take the pledge: I do solemnly swear to not respond to any of George’s spamming, trolling, baiting and taunting, no matter how serious the provocation, so help me ROFF. No doubt that as is the pledge becomes effective, the George spam-o-meter will go off the dial as he responds in the attempt to reassert himself as the centre of the universe, but within a reasonably short space of time if we stick to the pledge, peace will reign supreme on the G front. Peter

Response:

Dave, As one who just watched the thread, I hereby make a pledge and vow not to fall for his trolls in the future, no matter how strongly provoked. Gandhi once said, The weak can never forgive.  Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong.

Happy New Year David.  I forgive you. ; ) Mr. G. — http://www.gink.com/chat

Response:

<good suggestions snipped Dave, As one who just watched the thread, I hereby make a pledge and vow not to fall for his trolls in the future, no matter how strongly provoked. Gandhi once said, The weak can never forgive.  Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong. Best Regards, Dave Blackett aka bc. — Angling may be said to be so like the mathematics that it can never be fully learnt — Izaak Walton

Response:

Wayne,    Of course you are correct about this.  He changed his sign from Mr. G to Mr Gink just for this purpose.  He seems to be a firm believer in "there is no such thing as bad publicity".  I for one do not welcome George back to ROFF because I am  a believer in the saying "a leopard can’t change it’s spots".  It won’t be long until he reverts back to the old George that he wants everyone to forget.  I am placing him back on my filter and I hope the members of ROFF don’t repeat too many of his posts in their posts. Happy New Year Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dave, in watching the current Nymphing ROFF thread a couple of things come to mind regarding your suggestions.  The very people attacking George most adamantly are performing for him a great service.  A primary tenent of marketing strategy is repeating your product name before the public.  Even though some people try to make it a negative conotation their comments still serve the strategy.  On the other hand, some of George’s posts seem to suggest he intentionally invites controversy (ie. twitch, twitch).  Given the possibility of an element of intentional provocation and the natural tendency in ROFF for detailed personal defense, I have doubts even the best devised guidelines will serve your intended purpose.  In any case, I’m afraid the horse has bolted the gate and is already on the course. Wayne

Response:

[genuine, noble effort snipped] Sincerely – and with great hope, /dave tatosian (aka daytripper)

Trip, I’ve met a few men like George in my life and in all the time I knew them, they never changed for the better.  After all, why change when you’re perfect.  :)  Anyway, for any peace to accrue in these parts, we simply have to give George’s spamming and trolling the same consideration as we’ve given the meower.  The most important thing in George’s life is to be the constant centre of everyone’s attention. Forty and fifty post threads with the subject "Mr. G." are his lifeblood.  George cannot post without taunting and boasting about his stuff anymore than I’d qualify for the clergy.  Given that, it’s up to the rest of us to take the pledge: I do solemnly swear to not respond to any of George’s spamming, trolling, baiting and taunting, no matter how serious the provocation, so help me ROFF. No doubt that as is the pledge becomes effective, the George spam-o-meter will go off the dial as he responds in the attempt to reassert himself as the centre of the universe, but within a reasonably short space of time if we stick to the pledge, peace will reign supreme on the G front. Peter

Response:

holy shit tripper…whatever it is that induced this, can ya send me a shipment? i’ve a bunch of clients that need a dose (toke?) immediately! seriously though – nice thought and hope it works.   jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My friends, lend me your eyes. This constant warring between the pro- and anti- George factions is taking a toll on my karma. And I don’t like it. And I don’t see a need for it to continue. There CAN be peace on roff in my time, if everyone could simply make an investment in faith and trust. But it WILL require EVERYONE to cooperate, or the effort is doomed to fail. As one participant in this group who was the target of a series of slanderous attacks last fall from the same person that I had previously defended in this place, I think I have the right to make the following proposal. I’m willing to forgive and forget, without anyone having to apologize to me, and move on with life. I’d appreciate it if you all would read this, and consider it. At this point you should all know that I certainly don’t have any stake in this, outside of the desire to establish the peace and maintain some sense of decorum. I am hereby proposing that a deal be struck between George and those who so far just can’t seem to forgive mistakes made in the past. If faithfully followed, the group will regain a gregarious fellow with a long and interesting flyfishing background and experience. In return the group won’t be forced to endure further onslaughts of unsolicited advertisements and suspect product endorsements. Here’s the deal. It’s damned simple: Part 1. The parties of the first part – George Gehrke, his employees, his partners, resellers, and anyone else with a financial interest in George’s business interests – will refrain from unsolicited merchandizing of his various products in this forum, just like the conduct expected of any other commercial interest. Part 2. All other parties will refrain from continuing their relentless attacks on George for any perceived transgression(s) presumed to have been perpetrated by George in the past. Further, if said parties have nothing meaningful to contribute to any ongoing topic or thread in this conference where George is a contributor, they should post nothing at all. What I’m proposing is the group allows George a fresh start – and that in turn, George not abuse that act of faith and trust. Reasonable people may disagree with what constitutes "suitable context" – but if someone comes looking for stuff that makes things sink or float – or are shopping for cane rods or blanks – I would consider those instances to be proper context where George could suggest that he has a solution worth considering. This doesn’t give George a green light to insult the intelligence or sensibilities of the group with over-the-top advertisements. Nor should a follow-up post by George suggesting that he has a product that will solve a problem constitute a red flag waving at those who currently have a penchant to attack each and every post that George makes. I believe that this would be a worthwhile project for this group – and George – to take on, with the advent of the new year. I offer it as a way for everyone to make a peace – and hopefully a long lasting one – without anyone having to apologize, confess, or otherwise atone for past mistakes of judgement or passion. We’ll simply leave the past in the past – where it belongs – while implicitly forgiving the transgressions that may have taken place in that time. No apologies required by anyone; everyone saves face by default. Could this work? Yes, if the group is committed to peace. Please consider it. Sincerely – and with great hope, /dave tatosian (aka daytripper)

Response:

(Well thought and balanced guidelines snipped) Dave, in watching the current Nymphing ROFF thread a couple of things come to mind regarding your suggestions.  The very people attacking George most adamantly are performing for him a great service.  A primary tenent of marketing strategy is repeating your product name before the public.  Even though some people try to make it a negative conotation their comments still serve the strategy.  On the other hand, some of George’s posts seem to suggest he intentionally invites controversy (ie. twitch, twitch).  Given the possibility of an element of intentional provocation and the natural tendency in ROFF for detailed personal defense, I have doubts even the best devised guidelines will serve your intended purpose.  In any case, I’m afraid the horse has bolted the gate and is already on the course. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

Response:

Amen and amen. However, I think it should only pertain to posts from George and his employees.  George might have influence but not control over others that have a financial interest in his products.  It is true that George could influenced other people that have a "financial interest" in his products to make an advertizing post.  However, it is also possible that the other person is acting independently.  If we then baroque Mr. G, we are in the wrong.  Maybe my suggestion is more long-suffering than yours, but I think it’s truly the most fair one.  Let’s give Mr. G. the benefit of the doubt when we can. Mr. G. will either hang or prove himself.  We just need to give him enough rope to tie a noose or pull himself ashore. Vern – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Part 1. The parties of the first part – George Gehrke, his employees, his partners, resellers, and anyone else with a financial interest in George’s business interests – will refrain from unsolicited merchandizing of his various products in this forum, just like the conduct expected of any other commercial interest. Part 2. All other parties will refrain from continuing their relentless attacks on George for any perceived transgression(s) presumed to have been perpetrated by George in the past. Further, if said parties have nothing meaningful to contribute to any ongoing topic or thread in this conference where George is a contributor, they should post nothing at all.

Response:

daytripper, thanks for expressing my feelings . BUT: Imho it’s a bit short-sighted to build a wall solely against George and partners/customers. What would be more appropriate is a guideline for spam and misconduct in general. We’ve all been assoles here, and most have been forgiven, others left. I don’t believe George is the personalized evil. No one is. If someone is out of line, he or she can be addressed to that. Plain and simple. Herman

In the Big Picture(tm) you’re correct, Herman. But there are already Usenet guidelines that address the broader constructs for discussion groups under the Big 8 hierarchy. Clearly these guidelines have been ignored for some time in this case… This is not legislation that I’ve proposed, it’s a "serving suggestion" that addresses a specific concern in as gentle a fashion as possible while still providing some substance to chew on. Take it or leave it on its own merits. And thanks for your support. /daytripper

Response:

Why not.  It cant do any harm to try.  While admitting to some reservations about the wisdom of "forgiving and forgetting" in some circumstances, and also about the necessity for having separate regulatory agreements, which are basically unenforceable in any case, apart from the intrinsic regulatory factors which govern the groups individual behaviour in any case, such as the good sense, good manners, good taste, and propriety of the individuals concerned,  if peace is the only objective, then perhaps the end justifies the means in this case.  I will refrain from any posts at all concerning the material mentioned, until such time as the tacit agreement you suggest, ( or actual, should it be agreed to by all parties , which I doubt ), is broken, or flagrantly misused.

LOL! Ok, Mike, I appreciate your cooperation, if not enthusiastic support. "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible"

That’s ^^^^ profoundly appropriate. /daytripper (saving my dogma from being run over by my karma)

Response:

daytripper, thanks for expressing my feelings . BUT: Imho it’s a bit short-sighted to build a wall solely against George and partners/customers. What would be more appropriate is a guideline for spam and misconduct in general. We’ve all been assoles here, and most have been forgiven, others left. I don’t believe George is the personalized evil. No one is. If someone is out of line, he or she can be addressed to that. Plain and simple. Herman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My friends, lend me your eyes. This constant warring between the pro- and anti- George factions is taking a toll on my karma. And I don’t like it. And I don’t see a need for it to continue. There CAN be peace on roff in my time, if everyone could simply make an investment in faith and trust. But it WILL require EVERYONE to cooperate, or the effort is doomed to fail. As one participant in this group who was the target of a series of slanderous attacks last fall from the same person that I had previously defended in this place, I think I have the right to make the following proposal. I’m willing to forgive and forget, without anyone having to apologize to me, and move on with life. I’d appreciate it if you all would read this, and consider it. At this point you should all know that I certainly don’t have any stake in this, outside of the desire to establish the peace and maintain some sense of decorum. I am hereby proposing that a deal be struck between George and those who so far just can’t seem to forgive mistakes made in the past. If faithfully followed, the group will regain a gregarious fellow with a long and interesting flyfishing background and experience. In return the group won’t be forced to endure further onslaughts of unsolicited advertisements and suspect product endorsements. Here’s the deal. It’s damned simple: Part 1. The parties of the first part – George Gehrke, his employees, his partners, resellers, and anyone else with a financial interest in George’s business interests – will refrain from unsolicited merchandizing of his various products in this forum, just like the conduct expected of any other commercial interest. Part 2. All other parties will refrain from continuing their relentless attacks on George for any perceived transgression(s) presumed to have been perpetrated by George in the past. Further, if said parties have nothing meaningful to contribute to any ongoing topic or thread in this conference where George is a contributor, they should post nothing at all. What I’m proposing is the group allows George a fresh start – and that in turn, George not abuse that act of faith and trust. Reasonable people may disagree with what constitutes "suitable context" – but if someone comes looking for stuff that makes things sink or float – or are shopping for cane rods or blanks – I would consider those instances to be proper context where George could suggest that he has a solution worth considering. This doesn’t give George a green light to insult the intelligence or sensibilities of the group with over-the-top advertisements. Nor should a follow-up post by George suggesting that he has a product that will solve a problem constitute a red flag waving at those who currently have a penchant to attack each and every post that George makes. I believe that this would be a worthwhile project for this group – and George – to take on, with the advent of the new year. I offer it as a way for everyone to make a peace – and hopefully a long lasting one – without anyone having to apologize, confess, or otherwise atone for past mistakes of judgement or passion. We’ll simply leave the past in the past – where it belongs – while implicitly forgiving the transgressions that may have taken place in that time. No apologies required by anyone; everyone saves face by default. Could this work? Yes, if the group is committed to peace. Please consider it. Sincerely – and with great hope, /dave tatosian (aka daytripper)

– Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

Why not.  It cant do any harm to try.  While admitting to some reservations about the wisdom of "forgiving and forgetting" in some circumstances, and also about the necessity for having separate regulatory agreements, which are basically unenforceable in any case, apart from the intrinsic regulatory factors which govern the groups individual behaviour in any case, such as the good sense, good manners, good taste, and propriety of the individuals concerned,  if peace is the only objective, then perhaps the end justifies the means in this case.  I will refrain from any posts at all concerning the material mentioned, until such time as the tacit agreement you suggest, ( or actual, should it be agreed to by all parties , which I doubt ), is broken, or flagrantly misused. TL MC "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

My friends, lend me your eyes.

<SNIP

Response:

My friends, lend me your eyes. This constant warring between the pro- and anti- George factions is taking a toll on my karma. And I don’t like it. And I don’t see a need for it to continue. There CAN be peace on roff in my time, if everyone could simply make an investment in faith and trust. But it WILL require EVERYONE to cooperate, or the effort is doomed to fail. As one participant in this group who was the target of a series of slanderous attacks last fall from the same person that I had previously defended in this place, I think I have the right to make the following proposal. I’m willing to forgive and forget, without anyone having to apologize to me, and move on with life. I’d appreciate it if you all would read this, and consider it. At this point you should all know that I certainly don’t have any stake in this, outside of the desire to establish the peace and maintain some sense of decorum. I am hereby proposing that a deal be struck between George and those who so far just can’t seem to forgive mistakes made in the past. If faithfully followed, the group will regain a gregarious fellow with a long and interesting flyfishing background and experience. In return the group won’t be forced to endure further onslaughts of unsolicited advertisements and suspect product endorsements. Here’s the deal. It’s damned simple: Part 1. The parties of the first part – George Gehrke, his employees, his partners, resellers, and anyone else with a financial interest in George’s business interests – will refrain from unsolicited merchandizing of his various products in this forum, just like the conduct expected of any other commercial interest. Part 2. All other parties will refrain from continuing their relentless attacks on George for any perceived transgression(s) presumed to have been perpetrated by George in the past. Further, if said parties have nothing meaningful to contribute to any ongoing topic or thread in this conference where George is a contributor, they should post nothing at all. What I’m proposing is the group allows George a fresh start – and that in turn, George not abuse that act of faith and trust. Reasonable people may disagree with what constitutes "suitable context" – but if someone comes looking for stuff that makes things sink or float – or are shopping for cane rods or blanks – I would consider those instances to be proper context where George could suggest that he has a solution worth considering. This doesn’t give George a green light to insult the intelligence or sensibilities of the group with over-the-top advertisements. Nor should a follow-up post by George suggesting that he has a product that will solve a problem constitute a red flag waving at those who currently have a penchant to attack each and every post that George makes. I believe that this would be a worthwhile project for this group – and George – to take on, with the advent of the new year. I offer it as a way for everyone to make a peace – and hopefully a long lasting one – without anyone having to apologize, confess, or otherwise atone for past mistakes of judgement or passion. We’ll simply leave the past in the past – where it belongs – while implicitly forgiving the transgressions that may have taken place in that time. No apologies required by anyone; everyone saves face by default. Could this work? Yes, if the group is committed to peace. Please consider it. Sincerely – and with great hope, /dave tatosian (aka daytripper)

Response:

Question:

I was reading about the death of Payne Stewart and came across a list of sports figures who have lost their lives in plane crashes. One was Johnny Dieckman, world fly-casting champion who died in Chicago, March1, 1962. Was he well known among flyfisherman?

Response:

Allen He may have been but he doesn’t show up in the index or the biblio of Schullery’s Amer. Fly Fishing, A History. You might want to check with the museum Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was reading about the death of Payne Stewart and came across a list of sports figures who have lost their lives in plane crashes. One was Johnny Dieckman, world fly-casting champion who died in Chicago, March1, 1962. Was he well known among flyfisherman?

Response:

I was reading about the death of Payne Stewart and came across a list of sports figures who have lost their lives in plane crashes. One was Johnny Dieckman, world fly-casting champion who died in Chicago, March1, 1962. Was he well known among flyfisherman?

Lee Wulff was killed when he pranged his plane a few years back.

Response:

I was reading about the death of Payne Stewart and came across a list of sports figures who have lost their lives in plane crashes. One was Johnny Dieckman, world fly-casting champion who died in Chicago, March1, 1962. Was he well known among flyfisherman?

Hi Allen, I heard his name years ago, maybe from my Cortland Line Company Rep, now retired, Joe Patterson. I would bet that the old timers like Lefty, Kurt Gowdy or Jack Samson would have known him.

Response:

Question:

Here in Colorado, the fish are skitish enough, without a 110 pound dog swimming overhead.  Over the past weekend, I brought him fishing again.  However, this time I fastened his leash to my waders.  This wasn’t a problem because the water is very low.   This method seemed to work really well.  Any training insight, comments, or suggestions are greatly appreciated.

I would think catching him on a bad backcast would be risky.   As to suggestions, my own german shepherd has gotten a bit old.  I find that  after a good hour or so of splashing and playing she settles down and prefers  to watch me from the bank.  So I spend an hour playing with the dog and hiking  upstream before I start fishing.

Response:

I have two dogs who love to swim after me on a quiet lake if I let them.   When the fishing is bad and can’t get any worse, sometimes I call them out and let them troll beside my canoe.  However, I don’t encourage this if there are other fisherman in the lake.  When I fish on a river, I just leave them in my van.  They are quite happy hanging out for a couple of hours at a time.  Less stress worring about pissing off other guys.   Besides nothing spooks fish more than a couple of splashing muts swiming around, or having them get caught in the current. C. Carefoot – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would like to start bringing my black labrador fly fishing.  I was curious if anyone has any training suggestions, which may help.  Over the summer, I attempted to bring him fishing.  Being a water dog, I couldn’t keep him out of the deepest holes.  Here in Colorado, the fish are skitish enough, without a 110 pound dog swimming overhead.  Over the past weekend,I brought him fishing again.  However, this time I fastened his leash to my waders.  This wasn’t a problem because the water is very low.   This method seemed to work really well.  Any training insight, comments, or suggestions are greatly appreciated. -Josh josh ( a t ) bankersfyi ( d o t ) com

Response:

Me thinks too many folks are buying into this dog/flyfishing c**p you see on the cover of catalogs, books, calendars, etc..  I like the one photo on my TU calendar where this gorgeous lady flyfisher, all decked in Orvis gear, in her twenties, shows a 26" trout to her black lab.  It’s titled "introducing one love to another". Now here’s reality: if there is a woman, she looks like a Jenny-Craig dropout.  The trout she holds is a SNIT (stocked nine-inch trout).  She wears an "Uncle Buck’s Salmon Eggs" t-shirt covered with fish slime, probably from the stringer of fish wrapped around her neck.  The dog is drowning because he can’t swim, and drooling more water than there is in the stream.  The title would be "Rover finally discovers what fresh fish smells like". Voice of experience – tried training Boomer my black lab to go flyfishing. He ran everybody off the stream.  I had to leave before the sheriff arrived. Fishing is for my enjoyment, not Boomer’s.  Let him get his own rod & Jeep.

Response:

This is gonna be another Swayback Story. One of the members of that fine club has a Newfoundland Duck Tolling Retriever bitch.  Nice dog.  Takes her fishing with him often.   Well, one Saturday evening this guy is fishing the water by my house with the Noof.  He get’s into a fish – maybe 17-18".  He gets the fish into netting range, and damned if the dog doesn’t pounce on the poor thing, grab it in it’s mouth, and take it to shore.  Then the noof sets the fish on the gravel and sits there proud as punch.  Believe it or not, the fish was released, relatively unharmed. As I understand these dogs they’re used as duck dogs in Canada.  They have very strong retrieval instincts it would appear.  But I never thought they were that strong. Personally, I find fishing with a dog, especially a water dog to be very annoying. They can go all over the place, and mess up everything.  Maybe Josh’s dog is a better dog than that – I sure hope so anyway. I would like to start bringing my black labrador fly fishing.  I was curious if anyone has any training suggestions, which may help.  Over the summer, I attempted to bring him fishing.  Being a water dog, I couldn’t keep him out of the deepest holes.  Here in Colorado, the fish are skitish enough, without a 110 pound dog swimming overhead.  Over the past weekend, I brought him fishing again.  However, this time I fastened his leash to my waders.  This wasn’t a problem because the water is very low.   This method seemed to work really well.  Any training insight, comments, or suggestions are greatly appreciated. -Josh josh ( a t ) bankersfyi ( d o t ) com

– </chaz Chaz Clover The Paved Earth Society http://www.rmi.net/~clover/pave_the_earth   "Why Not Just Get On With It?"

Response:

Fishing is for my enjoyment, not Boomer’s.  Let him get his own rod & Jeep.

Sorry, but an enjoyable day on the river *always* includes the dog ! My mutt patiently sits on the bank until a trout is hooked, and then dives in to attempt a retrieve. Lots of excitement – and all he asks for is one quick lick of the fish. So what if he ruins that pool, there’s plenty more within a short walk, and more trout than I could catch in a lifetime. It’s seldom I see another fisherman on my stretch of river, and my buddies get a bigger kick out of watching the dog than playing the numbers game in fish caught in a day. Hunting season’s too short, and time too precious to spend outdoors without my pooch! Andrew Banff Alberta

Response:

I would like to start bringing my black labrador fly fishing.  I was curious if anyone has any training suggestions, which may help.  Over the summer, I attempted to bring him fishing.  Being a water dog, I couldn’t keep him out of the deepest holes.  Here in Colorado, the fish are skitish enough, without a 110 pound dog swimming overhead.  Over the past weekend, I brought him fishing again.  However, this time I fastened his leash to my waders.  This wasn’t a problem because the water is very low.   This method seemed to work really well.  Any training insight, comments, or suggestions are greatly appreciated. -Josh josh ( a t ) bankersfyi ( d o t ) com

Response:

I would like to start bringing my black labrador fly fishing.  I was curious if anyone has any training suggestions, which may help.  Over the summer, I attempted to bring him fishing.  Being a water dog, I couldn’t keep him out of the deepest holes.  Here in Colorado, the fish are skitish enough, without a 110 pound dog swimming overhead.  Over the past weekend, I brought him fishing again.  However, this time I fastened his leash to my waders.  This wasn’t a problem because the water is very low.   This method seemed to work really well.  Any training insight, comments, or suggestions are greatly appreciated.

My yellow lab started obedience training at 16 weeks and was fish_able when she turned 5. She knew all the commands and would obey 99% of the time, but you know labs & water :- At 5 I began taking her to the beach fishing on off tides so she wouldn’t bother anyone (she’s very friendly), or when I’d fish more isolated spots in the marshes and rocks. She did fine, I let her roam within reason, she seems to know her limits and is pretty unobtrusive. At 6 I began taking her to a local river that ran behind a barrier beach. I met a friend there and we decided to wade out to a nice looking flat. Gave Cass the ‘Stay’ command and she sat in a spot in the marsh for the next hour, watching us, not moving until I released her, then she went and chased seagulls for a while, but never came near the water we were fishing. My friend, who used to have a yellow lab too, was amazed. I can let her roam like this because she’s very good with hand signals. After I finish fishing I always do the tennis ball thing with her, so she knows that her patience will be rewarded, that seems to help a lot. So now I have a great fishing buddy, but it did take a lot of time and training to get her there. The point where she really started obeying was when I released a striper into a very strong rip and she dove in to retrieve it, she got one hell of a ride out to sea until she got loose. She never did that again, though I don’t necessarily recommend doing this on purpose :-

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would like to start bringing my black labrador fly fishing.  I was curious if anyone has any training suggestions, which may help.  Over the summer, I attempted to bring him fishing.  Being a water dog, I couldn’t keep him out of the deepest holes.  Here in Colorado, the fish are skitish enough, without a 110 pound dog swimming overhead.  Over the past weekend, I brought him fishing again.  However, this time I fastened his leash to my waders.  This wasn’t a problem because the water is very low.   This method seemed to work really well.  Any training insight, comments, or suggestions are greatly appreciated. -Josh josh ( a t ) bankersfyi ( d o t ) com

my dog is a horrible fishing dog, so she spends my fishing time drooling on my couch.  if you really want to fish with your pooch, i would recommend just spending lots of time with it on and near rivers.  go to areas where the fishing is marginal, so you don’t piss other anglers off while training your dog.  practice your casting while working (it might be tough to concentrate on the fish and your dog) on keeping your dog out of the water (if you own a breed that loves the water, it might be tough to keep it out of the water). remember that non-dog owners can be wary of large breed dogs and that a dog along the river isn’t always welcome by other anglers especially if dog owners don’t pick up after their animals.   good luck and good training, chris

Response:

I would like to start bringing my black labrador fly fishing.  I was curious if anyone has any training suggestions, which may help.  Over the summer, I attempted to bring him fishing.  Being a water dog, I couldn’t keep him out of the deepest holes.  Here in Colorado, the fish are skitish enough, without a 110 pound dog swimming overhead.  Over the past weekend, I brought him fishing again.  However, this time I fastened his leash to my waders.  This wasn’t a problem because the water is very low.   This method seemed to work really well.  Any training insight, comments, or suggestions are greatly appreciated.

I don’t have any insight other than once you find out, I’d like to know. I took my lab fishing this past summer and of course every time I casted, he’d jump in after the fly. I tried tying his leash to a willow bush – he bent the willow over so far that he made it into the water again. When I finally got him tied up good, he’d bark every time I casted – not a good thing when you start fishing 5am and there are other people around trying to sleep. Rich

Response:

I’m a dog trainer by profession & there is no easy, magic way to make a "fishing" dog.  An unruly dog has no place on the stream. The first place to start is with basic obedience so the dog learns the commands of heel, sit, down, stay & come as true commands not just requests that the dog follows when it wants to.  This means alot of work at home before ever taking the dog to a stream with you. However, much of it has to do with basic temperament & personality.  I’ve bred, trained, and owned alot of dogs over the years & I’ve only had two that were what I would call true "fishing" dogs.  One was a Golden & the other a Irish Setter.  They would wadeswim at my side while I was fishing or I could put them in a stay on the bank where they would remain no matter what else was going on. The unique characteristic these two had was that they were into fishing. They could stay with me all day without getting distracted the other exciting things that happen such as rabbits, birds, other anglers etc.  They would intensely watch & get very excited when I hooked a fish.  I would land it, show it to them & let them see it swim away. Great companions.  The Irish, though, would get impatient & would bark at me if I hadn’t caught a fish soon enough for her! I don’t take untrained dogs with me fishing. Training has to be done at stream side.  fishing.  This takes time, patience & discipline. It means working with your dog without fishing. Dogs not under strict control should not be off leash and have no business stream side. I don’t have a "fishing" dog, but I do have a young one that shows some real promise. Willi

Response:

Question:

There are some world-class streams within a half hour of State College.  I particularly recommend the Little Juniata, Penn Creek, or Fishing Creek (Clinton Country).  I’d recommend getting a copy of Trout Streams of Pennsylvania by Dwight Landis.  It has detailed maps and fly recommendations.  If you can’t get it where you are, call Cold Spring Anglers in Carlisle, PA or Yellow Breeches Outfitters in Boiling Springs, PA. — Anti-spamming measure in use.  To reply, remove one "z" from email address.

Response:

Does anyone know where I can go FF near State College, PA?  I will be there in early October.  Is it too late to go FF? What flies should I have ready? THANKS!!! Mac

Response:

Does anyone know where I can go FF near State College, PA?  I will be there in early October.  Is it too late to go FF? What flies should I have ready? THANKS!!! Mac

Dear Mac; Right in State College is one of the best wild trout fisheries in all of the East: Spring Creek.  It runs from State College to Bellefonte and is C&R over (basically) it’s entire length due to Arochlor (PCB) contamination.  The Logan Branch is another good choice.  It comes into Spring closer to Bellefonte.  For the best up-to-date fishing conditions, contact Flyfisher’s Paradise, a flyshop located outside of State college, about 3 miles from the creek, if that.  I don’t have their #, but the Area Code is 814, so call Info. and get the #.   Flies: Sz 16-18 Sow bugs, Sz. 16-18 Pheasant Tails, and Midges, both surface and pupae would be your Ace-in-the-hole flies. Jason B.

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Good Evening…. It’s been an interesting winter here on r.o.f.f., and I must say it’s been difficult to keep my mouth shut on a number of the more controversial issues…..but I wanted to actually think about my response(s) to a number of subjects before I spouted off…if you may be offended by a different opinion than yours….DELETE NOW Trolling And Ethics… Being one of those Streamer fishermen from Maine, who likes to troll along shore in my canoe, or along the edge of the retreating ice,  I am perplexed by everyone getting uptight about defining this practice as flyfishing or not….FWIW…I look at it this way:  There is "flyfishing", and there is "fishing with a fly".  Neither is superior to the other….both require the angler to choose an immitation to best match the "natural", in this case the predominant forage fish. The gear used may be identical in both types of fishing (perhaps not), but the key difference is the method of presenting the fly.  In my definition, "flyfishing" involves casting a fly/streamer, and also a retrieve. "Fishing with a fly" doesn’t normally meet these presentation criteria. As far as the ethics thing is concerned….I’ll simply say that just because you consider "flyfishing" superior to "fishing with a fly", doesn’t make it so.  I participate in both activities without guilt All to often nowadays…people seem to have adopted a "holier than thou art" attitude….call it human nature?  Leave it at home when you come to Maine, Please.  We let everyone fish here. Yuppification and Warrantees…. The sport of flyfishing has become a very fashionable thing to do nowadays….and if you don’t truly attain some sort of transcendental state whilst doing it….fake it.  Taking up flyfishing also automatically qualifies you as an adventurer and outdoorsman/woman, though I prefer to think of the Yuppies as "Weekend Grizzly Adams’s"…It’s quite comical actually…until they realize there are no streetlights or phone booths to dial 911 in the backcountry. I once had a 9′ 5wt Double L Rod from LL Bean…it’s now 8′10.5"…I broke the tip….it was NOT a manufacturer’s defect….it was operator error….I will not return it.  To those who have slammed rods in car doors, etc. and demanded they be replaced under warranty….Thanks a bunch….I appreciate paying $100 more per rod for your clumsiness, and lack of personal responsibility. Hatches…. Many folks really enjoy studying entimology, and learning every species, genus, and phylum….good for you!  I hope you get enjoyment from that!  Many of us are perfectly content with common names for insects, however…..Sulphurs, BWO’s, Red Quills….are the names I use, and I have flies to match them in size, shape, color, and sillouhette.   It’s still flyfishing, and I catch plenty of fish. Smoking and Black Flies…. I’m planning to quit this summer….after the black fly season during spring fishing….don’t know what I’ll do next spring.  I appreciate all of the non-smokers concern for those of us who do enjoy a smoke….we know you’re concerned….we know the health risks….but believe me…you accomplish nothing by repeating this information ad nauseum to us.  Please refrain….I carry out all litter, and I’ll stand downwind from you.  I promise. There…I feel much better now.  Time to enter Lurk Mode again! Regards, R.A. Skehan

I feel better, too. Catch what you eat, eat what you catch, enjoy the trip.  Pretty simple, really.  Everything else is just details. If you want to just mess around with the fish, buy an aquarium. Donning my asbestos suit, Jim Wagner — Jim Wagner http://www.pagesz.net/~n4svz

Response:

Catch what you eat, eat what you catch, enjoy the trip.  Pretty simple, really.  Everything else is just details.

You mean, like the beer ? Now yours is a slogan I can live with. TimW

Response:

Excellent post. Right on the mark as I troll streamers as well as "flycast". Trolling streamers is a time honored tradition and a great way to relax and take in the surroundings. I have caught many nice Landlocks on Munsungan Lake this way.  If we see fish working, then we reel in and cast to them. As far as yuppification, I agree but don’t see anything we can do about it other than make fun.

Response:

perhaps the best post I’ve read all week! Superior to the ralph H / Moe Skeeter diatibes Ralph H – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Good Evening…. It’s been an interesting winter here on r.o.f.f., and I must say it’s been difficult to keep my mouth shut on a number of the more controversial issues…..but I wanted to actually think about my response(s) to a number of subjects before I spouted off…if you may be offended by a different opinion than yours….DELETE NOW Trolling And Ethics… Being one of those Streamer fishermen from Maine, who likes to troll along shore in my canoe, or along the edge of the retreating ice,  I am perplexed by everyone getting uptight about defining this practice as flyfishing or not….FWIW…I look at it this way:  There is "flyfishing", and there is "fishing with a fly".  Neither is superior to the other….both require the angler to choose an immitation to best match the "natural", in this case the predominant forage fish. The gear used may be identical in both types of fishing (perhaps not), but the key difference is the method of presenting the fly.  In my definition, "flyfishing" involves casting a fly/streamer, and also a retrieve. "Fishing with a fly" doesn’t normally meet these presentation criteria.   As far as the ethics thing is concerned….I’ll simply say that just because you consider "flyfishing" superior to "fishing with a fly", doesn’t make it so.  I participate in both activities without guilt All to often nowadays…people seem to have adopted a "holier than thou art" attitude….call it human nature?  Leave it at home when you come to Maine, Please.  We let everyone fish here. Yuppification and Warrantees…. The sport of flyfishing has become a very fashionable thing to do nowadays….and if you don’t truly attain some sort of transcendental state whilst doing it….fake it.  Taking up flyfishing also automatically qualifies you as an adventurer and outdoorsman/woman, though I prefer to think of the Yuppies as "Weekend Grizzly Adams’s"…It’s quite comical actually…until they realize there are no streetlights or phone booths to dial 911 in the backcountry. I once had a 9′ 5wt Double L Rod from LL Bean…it’s now 8′10.5"…I broke the tip….it was NOT a manufacturer’s defect….it was operator error….I will not return it.  To those who have slammed rods in car doors, etc. and demanded they be replaced under warranty….Thanks a bunch….I appreciate paying $100 more per rod for your clumsiness, and lack of personal responsibility. Hatches…. Many folks really enjoy studying entimology, and learning every species, genus, and phylum….good for you!  I hope you get enjoyment from that!  Many of us are perfectly content with common names for insects, however…..Sulphurs, BWO’s, Red Quills….are the names I use, and I have flies to match them in size, shape, color, and sillouhette.   It’s still flyfishing, and I catch plenty of fish. Smoking and Black Flies…. I’m planning to quit this summer….after the black fly season during spring fishing….don’t know what I’ll do next spring.  I appreciate all of the non-smokers concern for those of us who do enjoy a smoke….we know you’re concerned….we know the health risks….but believe me…you accomplish nothing by repeating this information ad nauseum to us.  Please refrain….I carry out all litter, and I’ll stand downwind from you.  I promise. There…I feel much better now.  Time to enter Lurk Mode again! Regards, R.A. Skehan

Response:

Good Evening…. It’s been an interesting winter here on r.o.f.f., and I must say it’s been difficult to keep my mouth shut on a number of the more controversial issues…..but I wanted to actually think about my response(s) to a number of subjects before I spouted off…if you may be offended by a different opinion than yours….DELETE NOW Trolling And Ethics… Being one of those Streamer fishermen from Maine, who likes to troll along shore in my canoe, or along the edge of the retreating ice,  I am perplexed by everyone getting uptight about defining this practice as flyfishing or not….FWIW…I look at it this way:  There is "flyfishing", and there is "fishing with a fly".  Neither is superior to the other….both require the angler to choose an immitation to best match the "natural", in this case the predominant forage fish. The gear used may be identical in both types of fishing (perhaps not), but the key difference is the method of presenting the fly.  In my definition, "flyfishing" involves casting a fly/streamer, and also a retrieve. "Fishing with a fly" doesn’t normally meet these presentation criteria.   As far as the ethics thing is concerned….I’ll simply say that just because you consider "flyfishing" superior to "fishing with a fly", doesn’t make it so.  I participate in both activities without guilt All to often nowadays…people seem to have adopted a "holier than thou art" attitude….call it human nature?  Leave it at home when you come to Maine, Please.  We let everyone fish here. Yuppification and Warrantees…. The sport of flyfishing has become a very fashionable thing to do nowadays….and if you don’t truly attain some sort of transcendental state whilst doing it….fake it.  Taking up flyfishing also automatically qualifies you as an adventurer and outdoorsman/woman, though I prefer to think of the Yuppies as "Weekend Grizzly Adams’s"…It’s quite comical actually…until they realize there are no streetlights or phone booths to dial 911 in the backcountry. I once had a 9′ 5wt Double L Rod from LL Bean…it’s now 8′10.5"…I broke the tip….it was NOT a manufacturer’s defect….it was operator error….I will not return it.  To those who have slammed rods in car doors, etc. and demanded they be replaced under warranty….Thanks a bunch….I appreciate paying $100 more per rod for your clumsiness, and lack of personal responsibility. Hatches…. Many folks really enjoy studying entimology, and learning every species, genus, and phylum….good for you!  I hope you get enjoyment from that!  Many of us are perfectly content with common names for insects, however…..Sulphurs, BWO’s, Red Quills….are the names I use, and I have flies to match them in size, shape, color, and sillouhette.   It’s still flyfishing, and I catch plenty of fish. Smoking and Black Flies…. I’m planning to quit this summer….after the black fly season during spring fishing….don’t know what I’ll do next spring.  I appreciate all of the non-smokers concern for those of us who do enjoy a smoke….we know you’re concerned….we know the health risks….but believe me…you accomplish nothing by repeating this information ad nauseum to us.  Please refrain….I carry out all litter, and I’ll stand downwind from you.  I promise. There…I feel much better now.  Time to enter Lurk Mode again! Regards, R.A. Skehan

Response:

Question:

.. the problem is with the fonts in netscape … it seems to pick up a wierd font when setting it up.. especially the earlier netscapes. go into the fonts list and find the offending font and get rid of it, netscape then picks another … – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – keyboarded:

Question:

I took up fly fishing last summer, during a trip to Newfoundland, and now the family can’t imagine any other kind of fishing. I have a few questions. Lot’s of places we fish seem to have tons of mosquitos.  Why are there so few flies that look like mosquitos (or am I missing something). In Lappland this summer, I got something called a "musta polar tohtori" (black polar doctor), which looked a bit like a mosquito, but there don’t seem to be many.  Do fish not like mosquitoes?  My wife’s theory is to the effect that mosquitoes are so common that fish are bored with them, and would rather go for something more unusual and tasty. The second question:  We took our fly rods to Finnish Lappland this summer (around Kilpisjarvi), but had no luck in the lakes around there, nor around Yllas either.  We tried muddler minnows, dry flies, streamers, wet flies, and good good at casting, but didn’t pick up anything (though some of the lakes are stocked with char).  It was fun anyway, but I’m wondering if anybody has tips on fishing the Northern Finnish, Swedish and Norwegian lakes and streams. Finally, closer to home, I’m looking for good trout streams in Wisconsin or N. Illinois, within 3-4 hours of Chicago.  I’m not looking for anybody to give away their secret spots, but if there are some well know good spots I’d appreciate the advice.  I like to fish in places that are quiet and away from busy roads and noisy power boats (and far, far away from jet skis!). Thanks, Ray Pierrehumbert

Response:

Lot’s of places we fish seem to have tons of mosquitos.  Why are there so few flies that look like mosquitos (or am I missing something).

If trout get a shot at mosquitoes, I’m sure they’d eat them.  However, the life cycle of a mosquito pretty well takes place in water which trout cannot survive.  Mosquitoes hatch in stagnant water that is usually warmer than trout prefer and has little if any dissolved oxygen.   Not nearly enough dissolved oxygen for trout to survive.  "Mosquito wrigglers" use a tube that  penetrates the surface film to respirate. The are actually air breathing in this immature form.  That is why they used oil on the stagnant water to eliminate the malaria problems in the first half of the century.  The mosquito tubes couldn’t penetrate the oil film and they died from lack of oxygen. They hatch from stagnant water into that blood-sucking beast we all know, and they lay eggs back into the same stagnant water they came from. The attractions for them around the water are the warm blooded animals that frequent the area.  Since all animals need water, that’s a good supply of blood.  But they are not readily available for ingestion by trout. By the way, that "mosquito pattern" that most fly shops sell is a great mayfly imitation and works well in trout waters.                                                     Hope this helps,                                                              Dan

Response:

Question:

Has nay of the national magazines had any reports about whirling disease? about eating Great Lakes fish. "In-Fisherman" provided some in-depth coverage, and was rewarded with the loss of over $250K of advertising revenue. "Outdoor Life", knowing which side its bread was buttered on, published a blistering editorial calling the advisory 16 kinds of crap. No loss of advertising for these pillars of journalistic integrity

  This may be true in the case of Outdoor Life, but not in the case of Fly Fisherman. I have been in touch with Dave Engerbretson, who often contributes to this group, and he informs me that John Randolph and John Holt are not only aware of the whirling disease issue, but are preparing a story. Keep in mind that glossy magazines are usually layed out and printed 3 or so issues in advance, and that the Madison River story broke less than a month ago. Why the Colorado story hasn’t received more press is a mystery. But it soon will.   Tim Walker recently sent me a zeroxed/faxed copy of an article that appeared in the Angling Report, summarizing recent whirling disease developments in Colorado. The news is very bad. Taken at face value, it appears there has been *no* natural reproduction of Rainbows, for three seasons now, in parts of the Colorado, Gunnison, South Platte and Arkansas rivers. How do *you* define disaster? The only good news I have heard yet, is that Cutthroats and Brookies are somewhat resistant, at least by comparison with Rainbows. —

Response:

Peter – I suspect that you will get several responses to your post, and certainly some that are more scientific than I can be, so I will just reply briefly.  If, for some reason, you don’t get a fuller reply, send me a post and I will send more information. First, the disease is a neurological disorder that affects the fish’s system and causes it to swim in circles (thusthe name).   the fis weaken and ultimately fal prey to predators or other disease.  the disease is of no danger to humans if the fish are eaten.  there is not cure and probably got ito the Madison River from illegal stocking.  It can be transmitted on fishing gear, so there is a real risk of it spreading to other rivers. It is a very bad situation, but fortunatley does not affect the brown trout. The rainbow are most susceptible. again, if you do not get a better scientific description, let me know.  I have some materials that I can use to compose a longer post.                                               Dallas, TX                                               Ennis, MT

Response:

This is far from scientific, but as far as I understand whirling disease, it’s parasitic infestation (whether a protozoan or worm, or other loathsome critter, I’m not sure) which lodges in the nerve/spinal column of the fish.  The beasties keep eating their way through (right into the brain, I’ve heard) until the fish is neurological/mental invalid.  The effect is particularly pronounced in fry and parr, leading to the classic symtpoms of swimming in erratic circles or "whirling."  By the time things get to that point, the fish is defenseless.  I’m not sure about the propagation cycle of the parasite. I think that it can be spread by ingestion, so if an adult gobbles up a fry that is addled with the disease, the parasite can spread to the adult.  What I do not remember is how the parasite propagates once the host is dead, assuming something does not ingest it. I do recall that on avergage 10% of a population will not be affected by the disease, but they could be carriers. It can strike older fish as well, but it takes much longer.  One reason the disease is particularly insidious (sp?) is that we notice the adults for the most part.  By the time an adult in the population is diagonosed with the condition, you’ve got one hell of a problem because odds are the disease has spread through the population.  The truly horrific part of it is that it tends to wipe out whole year classes, with a disproportionate effect on the fry and par.  So, if you you start seeing adults with the condition, the younger year classes, and therefore future populations, may be in very serious trouble. The spread of the disease is increases with higher water temperatures because the beasties become more active.  Last I heard, once there is an infestation, there is very little that can be done other than killing off the host population.  I don’t know if that is true. Illegally stocked fish are likely a principal source, but I don’t know how the parasite gets into the hatchery in the first instance. Rainbows are very susceptible.  Browns are not.  The disease is European and so are browns, who have developed a restisance.  So, expect to see a much higher percentage of browns caught on the Madison. That’s what I’ve heard, for what it’s worth.  If there’s a fisheries biologist out there, please set this straight if it’s wrong.  I hope I’m wrong about some of the nastier aspects, because it sounds like rather like a fish version of bubonic plague. John C. Crow

Response:

I lived for 5 years in Bozeman in the 1980’s and loved fishing the Madison when I could.  I have just heard about this "whirling disease" phenomenon.  Can someone explain in a bit of scientific detail what it is?

For more than you probably want to know, search the Flyfishing archive at www.adp.unc.edu/cgi-bin/wais-flyfish-q using "whirling" as a key word. Phil Holt

Response:

I’m not sure what this article stated, but I received a release from the New York DEC a couple of months ago indicating that Whirling disease had contaminated a hatchery in NY State. I don’t think many fish with Whirling disease were stocked, but it wiped out an entire hatchery. Forgive my ‘net ignorance; this information is certainly timely and quite important, so I’m willing to risk a little self-dignity to keep everyone informed. See you on the rivers! Dennis Suler, Jr Hackettstown, NJ Forbes Newspapers

Response:

Whirlings disease is caused by a protozoan, that eats the cartilage around the equilibrium center in the fish.  It is deadly to fry and small fish, as stated before, but seems to have no effect on older fish.  If an older fish had it when it was young, you will often times find a sunken cranium, or deformed back.  Young fish that are infected often times also have a black tail.  Their is NO cure for it and the only way to get rid of it is to kill all the fish, sterilize (with some really potent chemicals) and start over, not a good thing for a stream, but it is required when a hatchery gets it.  Brown trout are susseptible to it, but they seem to have a better genetic defense of it, so it doean’t show up much in them. I hope this helps, I am not a fish biologist, but studiing to become one, I recently became interested in whirlings disease due to the outbreak of it in CO. Feel free to reply to me via email. Kevin — | ALL opinions |    OF COURSE I DID IT IN COLD BLOOD…..     | are mine,    |            I’M A POIKILOTHERM | Nobody else  |                                Kevin Case

Response:

I lived for 5 years in Bozeman in the 1980’s and loved fishing the Madison when I could.  I have just heard about this "whirling disease" phenomenon.  Can someone explain in a bit of scientific detail what it is?

Response:

The only good news I have heard yet, is that Cutthroats and Brookies are somewhat resistant, at least by comparison with Rainbows. —

At the fly fishing show in New Jersey, Gary LaFontaine listed a hierarchy of the suseptability to all trout, I cannot remember it exactly but I do remember that Rainbow was number one, and lake trout were at the bottom, I believe unaffected totally.                                         Brian

Response:

Could somebody please give me a short summary, what whirling disease is and how it affects fish and people eating them? (Btw, I am on good terms with biology, so it can be a rather scienific explanation) Thanx, or "Vielen Dank", as we Austrians put it,                                                 Peter

Response:

Tom Fry writes that it is not likely that the national magazines will publish  anything on the whirling disease because of the risk of loss of advertising. Tom = I think that you are wrong on this because the problem has already gotten a lot of national press.  But your scepticism is not without foundation. I suggest that if we do not see any articles in the next couple of editions of FF and Fly Rod & Reel, for example, we ought to beseige them with letters demanding attention to the problem.                                               Dallas, TX                                               Ennis, MT

Response:

Has nay of the national magazines had any reports about whirling disease?

Response:

re: WHIRLING DISEASE… Excellent summary in compuserve fishing library. I could fax it too you if you like…

Response:

Has nay of the national magazines had any reports about whirling disease?

about eating Great Lakes fish. "In-Fisherman" provided some in-depth coverage, and was rewarded with the loss of over $250K of advertising revenue. "Outdoor Life", knowing which side its bread was buttered on, published a blistering editorial calling the advisory 16 kinds of crap. No loss of advertising for these pillars of journalistic integrity — 3798 Woodland Drive     (604) 368-9315 Trail, BC

Response: