Question:

  You could pose the question at fishnet.com.au in the flyfish chatbd,   perhaps someone there has a little info.   If you have info from the locals such as a beach location just suck it   and see … thats half the fun!!  Grab an 8-10 wt and have at it!   Steve

Response:

Thanks Steve, have posted there. Clark

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   You could pose the question at fishnet.com.au in the flyfish chatbd,   perhaps someone there has a little info.   If you have info from the locals such as a beach location just suck it   and see … thats half the fun!!  Grab an 8-10 wt and have at it!   Steve

Response:

Last weeks episode: Fishzilla bites back.

Capital report, chap.  Top descriptions. Mu

Response:

  Sorry Norfolk is way out of my stomping grounds, its closer to you than   me.  There will be fish, beach, rock or estuary is the question. Best   bet would be the locals, I’d start with the people organising the event.     Half your luck on the junket. Steve

Response:

Thanks Steve, have lots of fishing info from the locals but not much on fly opportunity. As I’m relatively a novice in the salt myself I was hoping an Aussie may know. Thanks anyways. Clark

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   Sorry Norfolk is way out of my stomping grounds, its closer to you than   me.  There will be fish, beach, rock or estuary is the question. Best   bet would be the locals, I’d start with the people organising the event.   Half your luck on the junket. Steve

Response:

Nice trip report Steve. I have been invited to be a Guest Artist at the Norfolk Island Country musical festival in May 2002 (Yep, I sing a bit as well www.clarkreid.cjb.net) and have six days on the beautiful island and only need perform 2  30 minute sets. This made me wonder what the possible saltwater flyfishing possibilities are there. Do you have any idea? Or could you point me somewhere I might find out? Clark

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – On occasion, I just don’t feel like fishing. This is particularly so when it seems I would be better off meeting the next deadline early – then fishing. Bitter experience has shown me the truth of that adage "the amount of work required to complete a task expands to fill the amount of time you have to complete it." I need to constantly remind myself:  Fish now, work later (and better usually).  It didn’t work this week … so I had some time on my hands. Last weeks episode: Fishzilla bites back. "A long time ago in a land far, far away" Westernport bay was formed by islands French and Phillip (sounds like an English comedic pairing ) not fitting into the mainland.  A shallow bay covered in seagrass and reefs where eons of strong tidal currents have cut deep channels through the mud. It opens on to the horrors of Bass strait but mercifully is protected from the worst of the strait’s excesses by Philip Island. (PI is famous for the 500cc motorcycle grand prix, and the ‘Penguin Parade’ – I always thought a parade implied some sort of organisation and consent on the part of the paraders, but I am yet to see the penguins’ views on the subject aired anywhere … ) Phillip Island is is rocky island (volcanic rock mainly from what I can see) with steep cliffs, headlands and the occasional sandy beach, and within a couple of hours drive of Melbourne. The beauty of an island is that there is a lee to be found no matter what the weather direction.  We were going to need this becuase the forecast was basically for foul weather worsening.  The weather rarely keeps us from the salt and we’ve always done pretty well when the weather has been inclement, always catching a few fish for our efforts. We arrived at the end of the road and beginning of the walk to a cloudy day, with a slight ripple and no breeze to speak of, not so foul afterall. Looking around the meniscus of the bay as it curved from right to left, all sorts of interesting looking structure beckoned, neither of us had been here before, new water is often lots of fun. About half way through the walk waders slung around my neck were filling up and billowing with the following _breeze_ – another use for waders, -spinnakers.  Along soft sand, up and over dune slips and head high boulders, finally we rounded the point and found two other fisherman already setup.  A couple of elderly nordic gentleman one of whom we’d met before, were ensconced in a lovely little cove that warrants a look when we pass by next time.  Pleasantries exchanged, we continued on around several more promontories finally coming to the end of the way. Steep cliffs and 100 foot drops got in the way as only they can – very, very immoveably. A feature of headlands and cliffs is their appeal to sea birds , in this case the soft ground above the rocky cliffs and shoreline was riddled with shearwater (muttonbird) nests, interspersed with flowering pigface and other almost flourescent purple blloming plants. (Floracation isn’t my long suite … faunacation however …). Not a bird to be seen apart from the odd carcass – and little evidence of their arrival though some nests had been recently cleared out. There was a smell though, faint but pungent, I suspect it would be a most unpleasant place in the heat of summer with all the birds in residence. Traipsing through the rookery on the plateau would be quite dangerous with the risk of collapsing nests and harming ourselves or the nests’ residents quite high (if they were home). We did scout around a little for any sign of a walking trail back down and one area looked quite promising.  It was a section of flattened vegetation that turned out to be a 8 feet or so wide.  From a distance it looked for all the world like a track, closer inspection however showed it to be just the 60 feet long.  What we were looking at was the shearwaters’ airstrip,  at one end was a 100ft drop into nothing but the updrafts associated with such places, and at the other the rookery. With the rookery immediatelty above and behind our platform, access will be nearly impossible in summer when the rookery is populated – we’ll not be responsible for trampling chicks, collapsing nests etc. not to mention the possibility of attack from the birds protecting their nests or the tiger snakes that go bite in beak with mutton bird rookeries.  I would dearly love to see them using that landing strip though … Fishing? Oh yes there was fishing.  There were fish to.  Initially, the incoming tide produced a salmon or two, and a horde of wrasse from the kelp below our platform.  The little (and not so little) buggers have spikes in their dorsal fin, usually I don’t have a problem but one fish, a sizeable one of the blue lipped variety, punctured me five times. We were perched on boulders above a submerged ledge about 8-10 feet down. The ledge was covered in weed and kelp and had a healthy population of these wrasse and probably other fishes which we didn’t see or catch. The ledge itself fell away into perhaps another 20 feet of water with a sandy bottom, a strip which I suppose was about 60 feet wide and continued on around the promontory to the right and petered at a point on the left. A nice little location for all sorts of fishes. The fish had gone quiet as the tide fell, and with the wind now reaching gale levels from our left (thank goodness) we were having difficulty keeping contact with our flies.  Between the wind and the wash a typical 60 foot cast was looped out to about 90 feet of line. Then it rained. We huddled in the lee of a boulder till the scudding rain passed, and when the sun came out picked up our rods with renewed vigour. A weak sun to be sure but enough to burn the shnozz as I found out later. As well as drying things off we could see into the water better and the additional light seemed to turn the fish on as well. Tim’s first cast saw his wobbler fly  sliced off by a sizeable ‘couta.  The fish arrowed up from the depths to take the fly just over the ledge.  Well hooked, it continued its mad rush to the surface where the razor sharp teeth did a job on the tippett.  In a flash of silver and spray it was gone. Heavy tippet all round, 60lb mono. Through a gap in the ledge we saw dark shapes cruising down below the ledge level and occasionally one above it.  These fish in the upper column were striped though, and not ‘couta, probably fishzilla.  To see one of these things peel away from the shadows, and swim over to ( in no particular rush – the top of the food chain is rarely hurried) and swallow your fly is heart stopping.  Initially the shape just looks like another trick of the light produced by the ripple, then as it puts more distance between itself and the comouflage background, your brain starts to put together the outline. (If you’ve ever seen aerial footage of a shark over a sandy bottom, you’ll be able to get the picture … re-reading this I just had another image spring to mind … When the brain decides that the shape is heading for your fly, is when the adrenalin kicks in.  Then you lift, feel weight and know your luck is in.  It is very dissappointing to have the leader part in such circumstances.  A tad presumptuous on the luck part … that’s two of these fish that have done me, perhaps third time lucky. (mental note: check the WHOLE leader when changing tippett … wrassen frassen fisshen..) We saw several of the ‘couta and fishzilla but didn’t manage to get a hookup till one ‘couta chased Tim’s chartreuse clouser to his feet. Tim thought he ran out of water, I thought it was a rejection of the colour as these fish are fast and could overtake the fastest retrieve of any fisherman if they want to.  A synthetic based natural looking clouser went onto the tippett and resulted in an almost immediate hook-up.  At last! A sizeable ‘couta paraded around the sandy bottom, then tried to snag the line in the kelp … smooth drag, powerful fish, and a reasonable tippet what more can you ask for.  Everything held up and an obliging wave with impeccable timing bought the fish onto a ledge for happy snaps and release. As it turns out, we were lucky to get him up, even though couta aren’t renowned for their stamina, they do have a turn of speed and a fine set of choppers … the tippett, 60lb mono was worn through to about 1/3 its normal diameter in places. Silly grins all round.  Leaving not long after, not unusually, the trek out seemed about half as long as the one in, though yours truely did do a full uphill face plant into the soft turf (and thankfully, not a bird turd). The earth smelt good, the laugh felt good. We discussed the fishzilla problem – we both have copped a fair bit of derision seemingly knowledgeable anglers when we talk about fishzilla (we think its a southern species of barracuda).  These big fish have been written about before as inhabiting southern waters, but either they have passed from memory or have been in decline.  Certainly if you are not rigged for them you will be sliced off, and in the areas the fish frequent, anglers wouldn’t normally be gearing up for them with bite tippets. They

… read more »

Response:

On occasion, I just don’t feel like fishing. This is particularly so when it seems I would be better off meeting the next deadline early – then fishing. Bitter experience has shown me the truth of that adage "the amount of work required to complete a task expands to fill the amount of time you have to complete it." I need to constantly remind myself:  Fish now, work later (and better usually).  It didn’t work this week … so I had some time on my hands. Last weeks episode: Fishzilla bites back. "A long time ago in a land far, far away" Westernport bay was formed by islands French and Phillip (sounds like an English comedic pairing ) not fitting into the mainland.  A shallow bay covered in seagrass and reefs where eons of strong tidal currents have cut deep channels through the mud. It opens on to the horrors of Bass strait but mercifully is protected from the worst of the strait’s excesses by Philip Island. (PI is famous for the 500cc motorcycle grand prix, and the ‘Penguin Parade’ – I always thought a parade implied some sort of organisation and consent on the part of the paraders, but I am yet to see the penguins’ views on the subject aired anywhere … ) Phillip Island is is rocky island (volcanic rock mainly from what I can see) with steep cliffs, headlands and the occasional sandy beach, and within a couple of hours drive of Melbourne. The beauty of an island is that there is a lee to be found no matter what the weather direction.  We were going to need this becuase the forecast was basically for foul weather worsening.  The weather rarely keeps us from the salt and we’ve always done pretty well when the weather has been inclement, always catching a few fish for our efforts.   We arrived at the end of the road and beginning of the walk to a cloudy day, with a slight ripple and no breeze to speak of, not so foul afterall. Looking around the meniscus of the bay as it curved from right to left, all sorts of interesting looking structure beckoned, neither of us had been here before, new water is often lots of fun. About half way through the walk waders slung around my neck were filling up and billowing with the following _breeze_ – another use for waders, -spinnakers.  Along soft sand, up and over dune slips and head high boulders, finally we rounded the point and found two other fisherman already setup.  A couple of elderly nordic gentleman one of whom we’d met before, were ensconced in a lovely little cove that warrants a look when we pass by next time.  Pleasantries exchanged, we continued on around several more promontories finally coming to the end of the way.   Steep cliffs and 100 foot drops got in the way as only they can – very, very immoveably. A feature of headlands and cliffs is their appeal to sea birds , in this case the soft ground above the rocky cliffs and shoreline was riddled with shearwater (muttonbird) nests, interspersed with flowering pigface and other almost flourescent purple blloming plants. (Floracation isn’t my long suite … faunacation however …).   Not a bird to be seen apart from the odd carcass – and little evidence of their arrival though some nests had been recently cleared out. There was a smell though, faint but pungent, I suspect it would be a most unpleasant place in the heat of summer with all the birds in residence. Traipsing through the rookery on the plateau would be quite dangerous with the risk of collapsing nests and harming ourselves or the nests’ residents quite high (if they were home). We did scout around a little for any sign of a walking trail back down and one area looked quite promising.  It was a section of flattened vegetation that turned out to be a 8 feet or so wide.  From a distance it looked for all the world like a track, closer inspection however showed it to be just the 60 feet long.  What we were looking at was the shearwaters’ airstrip,  at one end was a 100ft drop into nothing but the updrafts associated with such places, and at the other the rookery. With the rookery immediatelty above and behind our platform, access will be nearly impossible in summer when the rookery is populated – we’ll not be responsible for trampling chicks, collapsing nests etc. not to mention the possibility of attack from the birds protecting their nests or the tiger snakes that go bite in beak with mutton bird rookeries.  I would dearly love to see them using that landing strip though … Fishing? Oh yes there was fishing.  There were fish to.  Initially, the incoming tide produced a salmon or two, and a horde of wrasse from the kelp below our platform.  The little (and not so little) buggers have spikes in their dorsal fin, usually I don’t have a problem but one fish, a sizeable one of the blue lipped variety, punctured me five times.   We were perched on boulders above a submerged ledge about 8-10 feet down.   The ledge was covered in weed and kelp and had a healthy population of these wrasse and probably other fishes which we didn’t see or catch. The ledge itself fell away into perhaps another 20 feet of water with a sandy bottom, a strip which I suppose was about 60 feet wide and continued on around the promontory to the right and petered at a point on the left. A nice little location for all sorts of fishes. The fish had gone quiet as the tide fell, and with the wind now reaching gale levels from our left (thank goodness) we were having difficulty keeping contact with our flies.  Between the wind and the wash a typical 60 foot cast was looped out to about 90 feet of line. Then it rained. We huddled in the lee of a boulder till the scudding rain passed, and when the sun came out picked up our rods with renewed vigour. A weak sun to be sure but enough to burn the shnozz as I found out later.   As well as drying things off we could see into the water better and the additional light seemed to turn the fish on as well. Tim’s first cast saw his wobbler fly  sliced off by a sizeable ‘couta.  The fish arrowed up from the depths to take the fly just over the ledge.  Well hooked, it continued its mad rush to the surface where the razor sharp teeth did a job on the tippett.  In a flash of silver and spray it was gone. Heavy tippet all round, 60lb mono. Through a gap in the ledge we saw dark shapes cruising down below the ledge level and occasionally one above it.  These fish in the upper column were striped though, and not ‘couta, probably fishzilla.  To see one of these things peel away from the shadows, and swim over to ( in no particular rush – the top of the food chain is rarely hurried) and swallow your fly is heart stopping.  Initially the shape just looks like another trick of the light produced by the ripple, then as it puts more distance between itself and the comouflage background, your brain starts to put together the outline. (If you’ve ever seen aerial footage of a shark over a sandy bottom, you’ll be able to get the picture … re-reading this I just had another image spring to mind …   When the brain decides that the shape is heading for your fly, is when the adrenalin kicks in.  Then you lift, feel weight and know your luck is in.  It is very dissappointing to have the leader part in such circumstances.  A tad presumptuous on the luck part … that’s two of these fish that have done me, perhaps third time lucky. (mental note: check the WHOLE leader when changing tippett … wrassen frassen fisshen..) We saw several of the ‘couta and fishzilla but didn’t manage to get a hookup till one ‘couta chased Tim’s chartreuse clouser to his feet. Tim thought he ran out of water, I thought it was a rejection of the colour as these fish are fast and could overtake the fastest retrieve of any fisherman if they want to.  A synthetic based natural looking clouser went onto the tippett and resulted in an almost immediate hook-up.  At last! A sizeable ‘couta paraded around the sandy bottom, then tried to snag the line in the kelp … smooth drag, powerful fish, and a reasonable tippet what more can you ask for.  Everything held up and an obliging wave with impeccable timing bought the fish onto a ledge for happy snaps and release. As it turns out, we were lucky to get him up, even though couta aren’t renowned for their stamina, they do have a turn of speed and a fine set of choppers … the tippett, 60lb mono was worn through to about 1/3 its normal diameter in places. Silly grins all round.  Leaving not long after, not unusually, the trek out seemed about half as long as the one in, though yours truely did do a full uphill face plant into the soft turf (and thankfully, not a bird turd). The earth smelt good, the laugh felt good.   We discussed the fishzilla problem – we both have copped a fair bit of derision seemingly knowledgeable anglers when we talk about fishzilla (we think its a southern species of barracuda).  These big fish have been written about before as inhabiting southern waters, but either they have passed from memory or have been in decline.  Certainly if you are not rigged for them you will be sliced off, and in the areas the fish frequent, anglers wouldn’t normally be gearing up for them with bite tippets.   They could be hooking up with them ok, but never get close enough to see them. The quest continues … Steve ‘couta – barracoutta – not to be confused with Barracuda.

Response:

Question:

Yeah, count me in you shadster! Opie needs all the hats he can get, Chris, because he doesn’t have any hair. Sign him up for a half dozen. If you’re doing t-shirts sign him up for another half dozen XXL to cover his gut.

Damn, that hurt to the scalp.  Can’t get to the bone through all these layers o’ fat! Opie  –Planning for the Past–

Response:

Hi All, Maybe some would want a hat even if they can’t make it? — Bill Kiene

Ain’t that what this is all about?  I hope I’m not expected to show-up to receive my hat.  Hat just don’t seem worth the price of air-fare. Opie  –Planning for the Past–

Response:

I am doing some preliminary investigation into embroidering some high quality fishing hats to memorialize the Sacramento Shad Fish-Out Clave. What I need for now is the approximate amount of hats required for this Clave.  So far it looks like we have about 10 – 12? Roffians signed up, but I know that some of the non-participants will want a hat as a souvenir (or at least I think so).

PC, I’ll need three. Danl Still can’t believe I’m contemplating flying somewhere for the express purpose of shadding!!!! AAAAArrrrrrrggghhhh…..

Response:

Still can’t believe I’m contemplating flying somewhere for the express purpose of shadding!!!! AAAAArrrrrrrggghhhh…..

So you’re actually contemplating coming to the shad fishout, Dan’l? Cool! BTW, these are American Shad, not the puny, slimey Hickory Shad you remember from your misspent youth. There are also striped bass in the American River. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Yeah, count me in you shadster!

Opie needs all the hats he can get, Chris, because he doesn’t have any hair. Sign him up for a half dozen. If you’re doing t-shirts sign him up for another half dozen XXL to cover his gut. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

I am doing some preliminary investigation into embroidering some high quality fishing hats to memorialize the Sacramento Shad Fish-Out Clave. What I need for now is the approximate amount of hats required for this Clave.  So far it looks like we have about 10 – 12? Roffians signed up, but I know that some of the non-participants will want a hat as a souvenir (or at least I think so).

Yo! Sign me up for a hat, please. /daytripper

Response:

embroidering some high quality fishing hats to memorialize the Sacramento Shad Fish-Out Clave. What I need for now is the approximate amount of hats required for this Clave.

Count me in for one of the caps. Big Dale

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am doing some preliminary investigation into embroidering some high quality fishing hats to memorialize the Sacramento Shad Fish-Out Clave. What I need for now is the approximate amount of hats required for this Clave.  So far it looks like we have about 10 – 12? Roffians signed up, but I know that some of the non-participants will want a hat as a souvenir (or at least I think so). The more I get done, the cheaper each one becomes.  Let me know if you will want one and I will run a total here at my homestead.  Legal Disclaimer — remember this is for an estimate you will not be contractually held to receiving an Official Clave Fishing Hat if you ask for one at this point.  I just need rough numbers. —- Padishar Creel "Man is the best computer we can put aboard a spacecraft…and the only one that can be mass produced with unskilled labor." –  Wernher von Braun

As requested earlier, I’d like one! –Walt

Response:

I know that some of the non-participants will want a hat as a souvenir (or at least I think so).

Yeah, I need another fishing hat like Custer needed another Indian (oops, Native American).   But sure, put me down for one. Joe F.

Response:

As requested earlier, I’d like one!

Me too. — Charlie…

Response:

Hi All, Maybe some would want a hat even if they can’t make it? — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am doing some preliminary investigation into embroidering some high quality fishing hats to memorialize the Sacramento Shad Fish-Out Clave. What I need for now is the approximate amount of hats required for this Clave.  So far it looks like we have about 10 – 12? Roffians signed up, but I know that some of the non-participants will want a hat as a souvenir (or at least I think so). The more I get done, the cheaper each one becomes.  Let me know if you will want one and I will run a total here at my homestead.  Legal Disclaimer — remember this is for an estimate you will not be contractually held to receiving an Official Clave Fishing Hat if you ask for one at this point. I just need rough numbers. —- Padishar Creel "Man is the best computer we can put aboard a spacecraft…and the only one that can be mass produced with unskilled labor." –  Wernher von Braun

Response:

As requested earlier, I’d like one! Me too.

Ditto. Wolfgang

Response:

Me too… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, Maybe some would want a hat even if they can’t make it? — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com I am doing some preliminary investigation into embroidering some high quality fishing hats to memorialize the Sacramento Shad Fish-Out Clave. What I need for now is the approximate amount of hats required for this Clave.  So far it looks like we have about 10 – 12? Roffians signed up, but I know that some of the non-participants will want a hat as a souvenir (or at least I think so). The more I get done, the cheaper each one becomes.  Let me know if you will want one and I will run a total here at my homestead.  Legal Disclaimer — remember this is for an estimate you will not be contractually held to receiving an Official Clave Fishing Hat if you ask for one at this point. I just need rough numbers. —- Padishar Creel "Man is the best computer we can put aboard a spacecraft…and the only one that can be mass produced with unskilled labor." –  Wernher von Braun

Response:

I am doing some preliminary investigation into embroidering some high quality fishing hats to memorialize the Sacramento Shad Fish-Out Clave. What I need for now is the approximate amount of hats required for this Clave.  So far it looks like we have about 10 – 12? Roffians signed up, but I know that some of the non-participants will want a hat as a souvenir (or at least I think so). The more I get done, the cheaper each one becomes.  Let me know if you will want one and I will run a total here at my homestead.  Legal Disclaimer — remember this is for an estimate you will not be contractually held to receiving an Official Clave Fishing Hat if you ask for one at this point.  I just need rough numbers. —- Padishar Creel "Man is the best computer we can put aboard a spacecraft…and the only one that can be mass produced with unskilled labor." –  Wernher von Braun

Response:

Yeah, count me in you shadster! Opie  –Planning for the Past–

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am doing some preliminary investigation into embroidering some high quality fishing hats to memorialize the Sacramento Shad Fish-Out Clave. What I need for now is the approximate amount of hats required for this Clave.  So far it looks like we have about 10 – 12? Roffians signed up, but I know that some of the non-participants will want a hat as a souvenir (or at least I think so). The more I get done, the cheaper each one becomes.  Let me know if you will want one and I will run a total here at my homestead.  Legal Disclaimer — remember this is for an estimate you will not be contractually held to receiving an Official Clave Fishing Hat if you ask for one at this point. I just need rough numbers. —- Padishar Creel "Man is the best computer we can put aboard a spacecraft…and the only one that can be mass produced with unskilled labor." –  Wernher von Braun

Response:

Question:

Ernie has a major league hard-on for The Evil Ginkster… Well, thanks a freakin’ lot for putting that image in my head. Kevin

I don’t believe my dislike of George is any worse than others on ROFF.  Since I put him in my kill file the only posts I see are the ones repeated in another person’s posts.  I can live with that. Ernie

Response:

Tripper I ment Ernie Schwiebert, not Harrison. Did Schwiebert die or something? Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No no no! Nothing so trivial. Ernie has a major league hard-on for The Evil Ginkster…

Response:

Ernie has a major league hard-on for The Evil Ginkster…

Well, thanks a freakin’ lot for putting that image in my head. Kevin

Response:

Is that a pool that the looser comes back in 24 hours? I believe him!  Yes I do, I really think he means it this time!  I trust him to keep his word.   However, I also believe in the tooth fairy, honest and truthful politicians, and the future of the Yugo automobile (I have one, in pristine condition, just waiting for the upsurge in the collectable market)…

Oh, he’s gone, but of course he’ll be back. New ISPs are probably getting harder to find, though.. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyo Before you buy.

Response:

Why? is he dead? (Serious question) Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m pretty sure I know why Ernie is contributing anything. Dave Oops, typo!  Of course this should read, I’m pretty sure I know why Ernie isn’t contributing anything. Dave Before you buy.

Response:

No no no! Nothing so trivial. Ernie has a major league hard-on for The Evil Ginkster… /daytripper (…and he’s packing a Louisville Slugger.) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why? is he dead? (Serious question) Dave I’m pretty sure I know why Ernie is contributing anything. Dave Oops, typo!  Of course this should read, I’m pretty sure I know why Ernie isn’t contributing anything. Dave Before you buy.

Response:

"Look George, if Doug Swisher, Ernie Schwiebert, David Whitlock, Lefty Kreh, aren’t contributing their valuable time to ROFF, why should you

I’d trade in anything those guys had to say for one good posting from Mike Connor. Tight Lines,Shawn

Response:

I’m pretty sure I know why Ernie is contributing anything. Dave

Oops, typo!  Of course this should read, I’m pretty sure I know why Ernie isn’t contributing anything. Dave Before you buy.

Response:

Is that a pool that the looser comes back in 24 hours?

I believe him!  Yes I do, I really think he means it this time!  I trust him to keep his word.   However, I also believe in the tooth fairy, honest and truthful politicians, and the future of the Yugo automobile (I have one, in pristine condition, just waiting for the upsurge in the collectable market)… — Padishar Creel "What do we live for if it is not to make life less difficult to each other."  – George Eliot

Response:

bullshit, i have a 100 bucks that sez you’ll post here again…. c’mon georgie, is it a bet? He did say he’d be back from time to time for the free advertising. — Charlie…

yeah, but he won’t remember saying it. ww

Response:

"Look George, if Doug Swisher, Ernie Schwiebert, David Whitlock, Lefty Kreh, aren’t contributing their valuable time to ROFF, why should you?  They certainly must have good reasons for not doing so.  Have you ever asked yourself the question, why?"

I’m pretty sure I know why Ernie is contributing anything. Dave Before you buy.

Response:

Is that a pool that the looser comes back in 24 hours? ND#1

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I will cease to write for ROFF anymore, any free articles directly because it has been pointed out to me, "Look George, if Doug Swisher, Ernie Schwiebert, David Whitlock, Lefty Kreh, aren’t contributing their valuable time to ROFF, why should you? <snip Adios, Try to stay away a little longer this time Ginko! Ernie Forever wouldn’t be long enough. /daytripper (We ought to start a pool…)

Response:

What was I thinking. I forgot to add that he’ll have a new ISP when he is posting again.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If TSOTS can make it through the night without poosting he’ll be back on Tuesday the 14th. _____  Anyone who wishes to reply to me on this policy must E-mail their comments and opinions because I won’t be reading ROFF anymore and IF any, very little.  Again, I will only be posting notices in the future in ROFF for those who want only the finest information possible regarding American Outdoors/Indoors and Fly Fishing. Secondly, anyone wishing to post articles to me for preservation on our Fly Fishing section may do so.  This way they won’t be posted just once and then lost and out of mind in dejanews.com. — Mr.G. http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html        bamboo flyrods & blanks    More Bamboo For Less Money Than     ANY OTHER FLY ROD IN THE WORLD

Response:

bullshit, i have a 100 bucks that sez you’ll post here again…. c’mon georgie, is it a bet?

He did say he’d be back from time to time for the free advertising. — Charlie…

Response:

I will cease to write for ROFF anymore, any free articles directly because it has been pointed out to me, "Look George, if Doug Swisher, Ernie Schwiebert, David Whitlock, Lefty Kreh, aren’t contributing their valuable time to ROFF, why should you? <snip Adios, Try to stay away a little longer this time Ginko! Ernie

Forever wouldn’t be long enough. /daytripper (We ought to start a pool…)

Response:

If TSOTS can make it through the night without poosting he’ll be back on Tuesday the 14th. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – _____  Anyone who wishes to reply to me on this policy must E-mail their comments and opinions because I won’t be reading ROFF anymore and IF any, very little.  Again, I will only be posting notices in the future in ROFF for those who want only the finest information possible regarding American Outdoors/Indoors and Fly Fishing. Secondly, anyone wishing to post articles to me for preservation on our Fly Fishing section may do so.  This way they won’t be posted just once and then lost and out of mind in dejanews.com. — Mr.G. http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html        bamboo flyrods & blanks    More Bamboo For Less Money Than     ANY OTHER FLY ROD IN THE WORLD

Response:

Try to stay away a little longer this time Ginko! Ernie

  I will cease to write for ROFF anymore, any free articles directly   because it has been pointed out to me, "Look George, if Doug Swisher,   Ernie Schwiebert, David Whitlock, Lefty Kreh, aren’t contributing their   valuable time to ROFF, why should you? <snip   Adios,

Response:

______ It seems I have, after reviewing the hundreds of fly fishing articles donated by yours truly over the years, is enough to nearly write a well defined book on the subject. I will cease to write for ROFF anymore, any free articles directly because it has been pointed out to me, "Look George, if Doug Swisher, Ernie Schwiebert, David Whitlock, Lefty Kreh, aren’t contributing their valuable time to ROFF, why should you?  They certainly must have good reasons for not doing so.  Have you ever asked yourself the question, why?" Well, I’ve thought about that and it makes sense to me.  Why am I trying so hard to bring fly fishing to a darwinian gang of thugs who really have little interest in the group as a primary fly fishing discussion forum? Why indeed, am I here when all the others refuse to be involved with ROFF?  It seems, ROFF does not sit well with these professionals.   I will write my articles and I will probably make an effort to collect them all from dejanews from over the years, if possible.  What I think I should do is start a pure fly fishing "Book of Gink On Fly Fishing" Web page and list all the articles there. When I write a piece, I will simply just come here and post where everyone interested can key on the ‘Blue Thingie’ that will take them to the World of Gink. I like this idea a lot better than having to listen to all the diatribes from the local drunk to the babbling yuppies in white shirts and ugly ties. Outside that, this new plan goes into motion immediately.   The second nice thing we will be able to do again is renew my visits to http://www.gink.com/chat which IS MONITORED and where the smart asses aren’t tolerated when they demean others or swear or arrive just to troll and cause others to become nauseous of them.  Frankly, like it or not, the Fly Fisherman’s Chat Site around the ole camp fire is much more fun and friendlier and MUCH MORE INTERESTING than anything happening in ROFF.  Roff doesn’t even come close for user friendly compared to Gink’s Fire Side Chat Site.  Pure truth. Those who wish to be civil and visit are welcome starting for me sometime between 6 to 8 PM but going on into the night, time permitting.  Those of you who wish to have your own INSTANT ANSWERING Visiting Room can go there and be in total privacy.  Don’t forget, this chat site http://www.gink.com/chat allows any number of individuals to talk privately and instantly to each other is "Whisper Mode". Anyhow, for sake of good order, the only time I care anymore to visit Roff in the future is to notify fly fishermen of new articles and updates. Incidentally Wayne Harrison, you will see that should you care to visit me/us and some of your old friends at http://www.gink.com/chat  how much more caring and civil we are there compared to what you’ve been living with in ROFF.  The good ole boys, if the truth be known, are not in ROFF anymore.   After this post, I personally wish to invite all you new people a personal invitation to attend and join us at the Home Camp Fires Burning.  http://www.gink.com/chat  Just sign in and use your real name.  Ask any question about fly fishing or fishing in general and there will be someone here to help you. Welcome, one an all to a really top drawer, well moderated free speech without cussing chat room you will ever hope to find. See you around 7 PM this evening everyone. Adios, : ) — Mr.G. http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html        bamboo flyrods & blanks    More Bamboo For Less Money Than     ANY OTHER FLY ROD IN THE WORLD

Response:

_____  Anyone who wishes to reply to me on this policy must E-mail their comments and opinions because I won’t be reading ROFF anymore and IF any, very little.  Again, I will only be posting notices in the future in ROFF for those who want only the finest information possible regarding American Outdoors/Indoors and Fly Fishing.   Secondly, anyone wishing to post articles to me for preservation on our Fly Fishing section may do so.  This way they won’t be posted just once and then lost and out of mind in dejanews.com. — Mr.G. http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html        bamboo flyrods & blanks    More Bamboo For Less Money Than     ANY OTHER FLY ROD IN THE WORLD

Response:

I will cease to write for ROFF anymore, any free articles directly because it has been pointed out to me, "Look George, if Doug Swisher, Ernie Schwiebert, David Whitlock, Lefty Kreh, aren’t contributing their valuable time to ROFF, why should you?

there’s just one flaw with that argument george…. those guys can write. but hell, don’t let me dissuade ya…. They certainly must have good reasons for not doing so.  Have you ever asked yourself the question, why?"

no, don’t give a rats ass. Well, I’ve thought about that and it makes sense to me.  Why am I trying so hard to bring fly fishing to a darwinian gang of thugs who really have little interest in the group as a primary fly fishing discussion forum?

yeah, why are you? Why indeed, am I here when all the others refuse to be involved with ROFF?  It seems, ROFF does not sit well with these professionals.

bwahahahahahahahahahahaha I will write my articles and I will probably make an effort to collect them all from dejanews from over the years, if possible.  What I think I should do is start a pure fly fishing "Book of Gink On Fly Fishing" Web page and list all the articles there. When I write a piece, I will simply just come here and post where everyone interested can key on the ‘Blue Thingie’ that will take them to the World of Gink.

make it a green thingy george…. green with envy. I like this idea a lot better than having to listen to all the diatribes from the local drunk to the babbling yuppies in white shirts and ugly ties.

we also like it better… see ya georgie-pooh… for the umpteenth time. Outside that, this new plan goes into motion immediately.

bullshit, i have a 100 bucks that sez you’ll post here again…. c’mon georgie, is it a bet? Adios,

see ya here soon…. your pal, waldo

Response:

Question:

I need to organise a flyfishing competition for fathers day and I need a couple of ideas on how to go about it. We’re doing this in a shopping mall parking lot so we’re just concentrating on casting (distance or accuracy). Does any body have any suggestions that will allow novices as well as experts to have a good time? Ari

Response:

I need to organise a flyfishing competition for fathers day and I need a couple of ideas on how to go about it. We’re doing this in a shopping mall parking lot so we’re just concentrating on casting (distance or accuracy). Does any body have any suggestions that will allow novices as well as experts to have a good time? Ari

        1.  paint a strip of the parking lot various shades of blue and green in an "s" curve about 90′ long.         2.  drag a few rocks from nearby rural areas into the parking lot and place them randomly within your painted area.         3.  cut out "fish" profiles from 1/4 inch plywood, paint them silver with a big red stripe down the middle and place them near the rocks.         4.  have large signs painted with the word "mountains" on them, and direct several beautiful, nubile women to hold them above their heads from time to time, placing the women on either side of the painted area.         5.  purchase a roff clave t-shirt for each of the women, ban or burn their bras, and hose them down every 5 or 10 minutes with tepid water.  the shirts can be purchased from little wayno’s outfitters (we never close) for the paltry sum of $50 each, including shipping.         6.  serve "carolina see-throughs" (vodka, tonic, no lime) to each contestant upon demand.         if you will follow those simple instructions, you won’t have to worry about silly impediments like rules or prizes.         as forty would say, "you’re welcome". for the firm wayno

Response:

Thanks Man, Sounds cool for a sunny day but we’re in the middle of bloody winter over here and all the nubile girls round here know how rude it is to point. Oh and if we could attend any of your competitions over there that would be just great. Cheers Ari – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I need to organise a flyfishing competition for fathers day and I need a couple of ideas on how to go about it. We’re doing this in a shopping mall parking lot so we’re just concentrating on casting (distance or accuracy). Does any body have any suggestions that will allow novices as well as experts to have a good time? Ari    1.  paint a strip of the parking lot various shades of blue and green in an "s" curve about 90′ long.    2.  drag a few rocks from nearby rural areas into the parking lot and place them randomly within your painted area.    3.  cut out "fish" profiles from 1/4 inch plywood, paint them silver with a big red stripe down the middle and place them near the rocks.    4.  have large signs painted with the word "mountains" on them, and direct several beautiful, nubile women to hold them above their heads from time to time, placing the women on either side of the painted area.    5.  purchase a roff clave t-shirt for each of the women, ban or burn their bras, and hose them down every 5 or 10 minutes with tepid water.  the shirts can be purchased from little wayno’s outfitters (we never close) for the paltry sum of $50 each, including shipping.    6.  serve "carolina see-throughs" (vodka, tonic, no lime) to each contestant upon demand.    if you will follow those simple instructions, you won’t have to worry about silly impediments like rules or prizes.    as forty would say, "you’re welcome". for the firm wayno

Response:

 Saw one where they put a Hulahoop on a ten foot pole and you have to cast through it, i.e. your whole loop.  The pole is 15 foot in front of the caster.  Prizes for those who make it through the most time in succession.                 Frank Reid

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Ari, some of the following have worked well in the past: whip some rings on a broomstick, and have a distance competition with this. ( Use cheap line ! ) Obtain a plastic blow up animal such as is used on the beach, or a rocking horse, or similar. Contestants must cast to dinner plates placed at suitable distances while a couple of guys "rock the boat". Ten, twenty, thirty feet, etc. Tie a twenty foot  length of limp string to a garden cane, and a leader to this. Accuracy is the goal here. Cast only with the butt of a two piece rod.  And then only with the tip. Distance cast "from the hand", no rod or reel allowed. Casting with two rods simultaneously to two separate targets. A knot tying competition. Blindfold casting.  The rod is placed in the blindfolded persons hand, he is "turned around fast a few times", and has to try and hit the target from memory. " The golden shot", same as the blindfold, but one person gives directions to the caster, using only the words "left", "right", "cast". Get a washing up bowl or similar, attach this to a piece of string, this is pulled along by two volunteers, and the caster must hit the moving target. Roll casting a hosepipe. ( Be careful you have plenty of space here, if it hits anybody it hurts ! ). Roll casting a rope. There are lots of others, but these have always worked well and provided a lot of amusement, and some surprises. TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

Response:

Hi Ari, some of the following have worked well in the past: whip some rings on a broomstick, and have a distance competition with this. ( Use cheap line ! ) Obtain a plastic blow up animal such as is used on the beach, or a rocking horse, or similar. Contestants must cast to dinner plates placed at suitable distances while a couple of guys "rock the boat". Ten, twenty, thirty feet, etc. Tie a twenty foot  length of limp string to a garden cane, and a leader to this. Accuracy is the goal here. Cast only with the butt of a two piece rod.  And then only with the tip. Distance cast "from the hand", no rod or reel allowed. Casting with two rods simultaneously to two separate targets. A knot tying competition. Blindfold casting.  The rod is placed in the blindfolded persons hand, he is "turned around fast a few times", and has to try and hit the target from memory. " The golden shot", same as the blindfold, but one person gives directions to the caster, using only the words "left", "right", "cast". Get a washing up bowl or similar, attach this to a piece of string, this is pulled along by two volunteers, and the caster must hit the moving target. Roll casting a hosepipe. ( Be careful you have plenty of space here, if it hits anybody it hurts ! ). Roll casting a rope. There are lots of others, but these have always worked well and provided a lot of amusement, and some surprises. TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

Response:

Question:

Hello,         I’m going on a 5 day trip through the Boundry Waters in September and I’m trying to decide on what kind of footwear to take. The outfitter doesn’t want Teva’s or other types of sandals or other open-toed shoes, sandals do not provide adequate ankle support for the portages that will be required. I’m thinking about just taking a beater pair of high-top tennis shoes but I like something that’ll dry a bit quicker than leather or canvas.          Campmor has a few pairs of watersports footwear that look like they’ll fit the bill for me. One pair is th Hi-Tec Stingrays and the other is the Columbia Snake River Trainer. I suppose either of these would work fine. I kind of like the Hi-Tec ones.         I really would like some opinions and ideas on what I should consider. Suggestions???? Thanks, Al

Response:

Hello,    I’m going on a 5 day trip through the Boundry Waters in September and I’m trying to decide on what kind of footwear to take. The outfitter doesn’t want Teva’s or other types of sandals or other open-toed shoes, sandals do not provide adequate ankle support for the portages that will be required.

They also don’t provide any protection from rocks, sticks, stinging nettles, poison ivy, broken glass, fish hooks.  They are great in camp though.  I’m thinking about just taking a beater pair of high-top tennis shoes but I like something that’ll dry a bit quicker than leather or canvas.

I use el cheapo lightweight hiking boots from Canadian Tire.  They are slow to dry & don’t offer much ankle support.  I’ve worn them regularly for 2 or 3 years including 4 weeks of canoe tripping.  I wear goretex socks to keep my feet dry. — Lloyd Bowles The Mad Canoeist "Keep The open Side Up!" www.madcanoeist.4ever.cc Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

:       I’m going on a 5 day trip through the Boundry Waters in September and : I’m trying to decide on what kind of footwear to take. The outfitter : doesn’t want Teva’s or other types of sandals or other open-toed shoes, : sandals do not provide adequate ankle support for the portages that will : be required. I’m thinking about just taking a beater pair of high-top : tennis shoes but I like something that’ll dry a bit quicker than leather : or canvas. You can’t skimp on ankle support when you’re on a portage, you’re just asking for a sprain or worse.  I usually take 2 pairs of footwear — a good, sturdy pair of hiking boots is required for any portage over about 100 feet, so take them.  Sandals are fine for those short hops, lift-overs, running around the camp, and sitting in the canoe.  It takes maybe 2 minutes to hop out of the canoe, take off your sandals and pull on your hiking boots at the portage… So take both.       "In wilderness is the preservation of the world…" | . .– .   .   .– .-. .-. . . . | | Mundanely: Stephen Fox |-| |-  |   |   `-. |-’ |-| |^| || |            Graphic Designer/ ‘ | `– `– `– –’ |   ‘ ` ‘ ` | ` |            Forestry Technician               (http://webhome.idirect.com/~helspawn)  : Come play Realms of Despair! http://www.game.org :

Response:

I first have to question the outfitter you chose as not wanting Teva’s on a BW trip.  That’s just plain crazy.  I’ve worn Teva’s into every BW trip I’ve taken and highly suggest them to anyone on such a trip.  Supposing that’s not the answer you’re looking for, Converse hi-tops work quite well.  Wear them w/o socks, slop around in the water, and you should be fine.  The bottoms don’t dry out very quickly but that has never been a problem for me. On an added note, hi-tops provide little to no ankle support so, again, Teva’s are a superior choice.  A couple of companies make shoes/boots specifically for portaging.  REI offers one such pair for $75 and Sierra Trading Post offers a water-shoe for $35.  Outfitters in the Ely area, such as Piragis, also sell portage shoes.  Enjoy the BWCA and check out the wild rice pancakes at the Chocolate Moose in Ely to cap off a great trip.

Response:

I would be against Teva’s because of possible foot entrapment walking in /on rocks while unloading the canoe in shallow water. The stiff sole and lack of shoe type structure is too prone to entrapment, I believe. My wife and I use flexible and very thin-soled neoprene booties. At the present my wife uses NRS Kickers and I use the high top NRS Zippered WET Shoe. The high top protects my shin bones from the rocks while loading/unloading the boats. The thin rubber sole has a great tread pattern for traction. We started out with booties when we started canoeing some 11 years ago because we kneel when in the canoe. I felt a stiff sole would increase the risk of entrapping a foot under the seat during a wet exit. We found they do very well for portaging. We’ve used them for 5 trips to Canada including three to Quetico. Last Aug/Sept we did 45 potages in 18 days (Quetico) with no problem. I was carrying a 72 lb. canoe with a 30lb pack and then two packs totaling about 110 lbs on the second trip. We have never felt the need for ankle support, either portaging or backpacking. We use ankle high Bean Main Hunting Shoes, which we have had forever, in camp. At first we planned to change into them on the longer (grater than 1/2 mile) portages, but over the years we’ve never bothered. You definitely have a feel for the ground with the booties. Your foot actually hugs the rocks getting much better traction than stiff soled footwear. We never suffer from sore feet while tripping. However, for the first week home this last time, I felt a little soreness for a few minutes when I first got up in the morning. This passed in about a week. AL – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, I’m going on a 5 day trip through the Boundry Waters in September and I’m trying to decide on what kind of footwear to take. The outfitter doesn’t want Teva’s or other types of sandals or other open-toed shoes, sandals do not provide adequate ankle support for the portages that will be required. They also don’t provide any protection from rocks, sticks, stinging nettles, poison ivy, broken glass, fish hooks.  They are great in camp though. I’m thinking about just taking a beater pair of high-top tennis shoes but I like something that’ll dry a bit quicker than leather or canvas.

.

Response:

I use a pair of Red Ball rubber construction boots that I bought when I needed to work some concrete.  They are great for canoeing and are cheap. About $10.  Comfortable enough for portaging up to about a mile.  Have good hiking boots but never take them. Charles Elms    http://www.newsfeeds.com       The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!

Response:

How about hiking boots?  Waterproof, and ankle support.  They make portages easier.

I’ve worn Army issue jungle boots on all of my Boundary Waters trips. They provide great support, have good traction and they drain. While they stay wet, if you wear wicking liner socks and wool outer socks under them, your feet stay comfortable. When we make camp, I set them out to dry, hang the socks and put on a pair of sneakers. My wife and daughter were so impressed with them, that they made me buy them some as well. We just returned from a 7 day BW trip yesterday and the jungle boots did fine again. Only problem is that I only have one issue pair left after 28 years and I will have to buy another pair soon. — Michael M. Schmieg Attorney at Law 110 Main Street Milford, Ohio 45150 voice: 513-831-1200 fax:   513-831-1201 http://w3.one.net/~schmieg

Response:

Yeah, but how do they look with a tux?

Response:

 Addias also make a couple water shoes.  No one locally has them.  REI had both the Addias and Hi-Tec’s so you may want to check them out. Just a note: Canoe & Kayak reviewed the Adidas water shoes last year and described them as "slicker than snot" on wet rock.  I recently got a pair of Hi-Tec Piranhas and they are also rather slippery on wet rock. The Teva Wet Climbers (a shoe, not sandal) is somewhat stickier as it has a siped sole (lots of slits in the sole like a sailing deck shoe) 5-10 has the highest rated soles for stickyness on wet rock.

If someone is looking a pair of water shoes that *aren’t* slippery NRS makes a neopreme slip on shoe with a single velcro closure and felt soles. If you look at almost any flyfishing wading boot you’ll find that they have felt soles.  In fact, I use these water shoes for wading while I’m flyfishing more than I do for kayaking. John Fereira Ithaca, NY

Response:

 Addias also make a couple water shoes.  No one locally has them.  REI had both the Addias and Hi-Tec’s so you may want to check them out.

Just a note: Canoe & Kayak reviewed the Adidas water shoes last year and described them as "slicker than snot" on wet rock.  I recently got a pair of Hi-Tec Piranhas and they are also rather slippery on wet rock. The Teva Wet Climbers (a shoe, not sandal) is somewhat stickier as it has a siped sole (lots of slits in the sole like a sailing deck shoe) 5-10 has the highest rated soles for stickyness on wet rock. Mike

Response:

I’ve been looking at both the Stingrays and the Snake River’s…  At least with my feet the Snake rivers were better.  Although I could not find them in my size locally ( NE Ohio) I needed a 10 1/2.  Addias also make a couple water shoes.  No one locally has them.  REI had both the Addias and Hi-Tec’s so you may want to check them out. Corey http://www.ncweb.com/users/possum/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello,         I’m going on a 5 day trip through the Boundry Waters in September and I’m trying to decide on what kind of footwear to take. The outfitter doesn’t want Teva’s or other types of sandals or other open-toed shoes, sandals do not provide adequate ankle support for the portages that will be required. I’m thinking about just taking a beater pair of high-top tennis shoes but I like something that’ll dry a bit quicker than leather or canvas.          Campmor has a few pairs of watersports footwear that look like they’ll fit the bill for me. One pair is th Hi-Tec Stingrays and the other is the Columbia Snake River Trainer. I suppose either of these would work fine. I kind of like the Hi-Tec ones.         I really would like some opinions and ideas on what I should consider. Suggestions???? Thanks, Al

Response:

The responses I’ve noticed haven’t commented on BW weather in Sept. It can be cold!  Not like winter (tho maybe snow) but still cold. It prolly *will* be cold 2-3 times in Sept with warm spells in between. With luck you’ll catch a warm spell.  But maybe you won’t.  So plan footwear accordingly.  You want to stay dry during the day, or (failing that) to dry quickly.  You need support on portages.  And you must have dry warm camp shoes. Sept is the best time for the BW.  Bugs & tourists are gone.  That’s when the locals come out.  Some of them will quibble about "cold", others will wholeheartedly agree to keep tourists away.  Enjoy yourself. Cecil

And it can snow in July – which it has. When we make our annual sojurn to the BWCA, we use rubber boots. I think they are 16 inches tall and cost 10 or 11 bucks. I also have a pair of GoreTex hunting boots packed away for camp use. Personally, I think it is foolish to wear sandals of any kind on a portage.                            Gary

Response:

The responses I’ve noticed haven’t commented on BW weather in Sept.   It can be cold!  Not like winter (tho maybe snow) but still cold.   It prolly *will* be cold 2-3 times in Sept with warm spells in between.   With luck you’ll catch a warm spell.  But maybe you won’t.  So plan footwear accordingly.  You want to stay dry during the day, or (failing that) to dry quickly.  You need support on portages.  And you must have dry warm camp shoes. Sept is the best time for the BW.  Bugs & tourists are gone.  That’s when the locals come out.  Some of them will quibble about "cold", others will wholeheartedly agree to keep tourists away.  Enjoy yourself. Cecil

Response:

On my two treks into the Boundry Waters with the BSA, we wore jungle boots _ combat boots that are made to get wet but immediately drain water.  They’re only about $40. (Don’t get the $10-$20 kind, they WILL fall apart). It made portages easier and protected our feet. You can get them from most Army surplus stores, but insist on American-made and make sure you break them in. Once we made camp, we took the boots and wet wool socks off, and put on dry socks and sneakers. Reed

Response:

I just got a set of Tecnica Barracudas.  Mostly mesh, but better heel cups than the Columbia shoes.  A cheaper alternative is the Vasque Portage shoes, made of nylon with gum rubber soles.  Sierrra Trading post (httP;//ww.sierratradingpost.com) has them for $14.95.  Waterproof hiking boots seem a bad idea to me too, the water inside will never come out.  I wear high cut Bean booots when its cold, but mostly resign myself to wet feet.  Sandals are great for camp to let the feet dry out. — Andrew

Response:

I just returned from a 5 day trip to Basswood Falls on 6/20.  I wore hiking boots almost the entire trip.  I managed to keep my feet dry!! But, it would have been nice to be able to walk right into the water at the beginning and at the end of the portage with the canoe and drop it into the water!!!  I also broght a pair of sandles so I could walk in the water to where the river was shallow.  (That happened at the beginning and at the end of the trip!  I was able to pull the canoe in the river and avoid two portages!!  We had aluminum canoes so avoiding carrying them was a treat!!  That was at Mudro Lake). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I first have to question the outfitter you chose as not wanting Teva’s on a BW trip.  That’s just plain crazy.  I’ve worn Teva’s into every BW trip I’ve taken and highly suggest them to anyone on such a trip.  Supposing that’s not the answer you’re looking for, Converse hi-tops work quite well. Wear them w/o socks, slop around in the water, and you should be fine.  The bottoms don’t dry out very quickly but that has never been a problem for me. On an added note, hi-tops provide little to no ankle support so, again, Teva’s are a superior choice.  A couple of companies make shoes/boots specifically for portaging.  REI offers one such pair for $75 and Sierra Trading Post offers a water-shoe for $35.  Outfitters in the Ely area, such as Piragis, also sell portage shoes.  Enjoy the BWCA and check out the wild rice pancakes at the Chocolate Moose in Ely to cap off a great trip.

Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Typed:      Here’s my genius idea for primary footwear for summer that I’ve never heard anyone else try and I haven’t had a chance yet either: a pair of Gore-tex socks under a pair of Jungle Boots like the GI’s used to get in Nam

Question:

Uh-Oh…I think someone just turned on the heater it’s starting to get hot in here….. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – To all sponsoring and/or midwiving the BASTARD: The news surrounding the birth of the BASTARD is nothing short of fantastic. As a fan of split-cane rods, I salute these efforts and think everyone should have the chance to own and fish a properly tooled and crafted cane rod.  So what about the BASTARD?  Does anyone out there really think that a split-cane rod can be produced for $300???!!!  HELLO?!  ARE WE ALL THAT DELUDED??!!?? Cane hex blanks alone wholesale for over $200 and quadrates are double that. But the BASTARDS will be made from cheap cane in a no-nonsense fashion, as if a BLANK has any nonsense. Cheap cane is cheap because it is covered either with water marks or grower’s marks.  I know, I know…the BASTARD aesthetic is not concerned with aesthetics.  But grower’s marks typically go through the enamel and sever the power bundles.  Yes, this effects casting, noticeably.  Really.  Cane costs could be reduced by making one-tip rods, but that cuts the life of the BASTARD in half. What about the tapers?  Initially, it would be easy enough to sell only one taper/length in each line weight; there are plenty of tapers out on the web. But soon customers won’t be so patient.  You’ll need more.  That means taking the time to reset you planing forms and triple-check the depth.  Then you’ll have to test out guide spacing on each different taper.  Time, time. What about tooling?  To put up with the rigors of production, you’ll have to get decent tooling.  Your cheapest tools will be your planing forms (~$800 for one that will last) and planes (at least four; as much as you want them to be, but don’t skimp on the blades).  Don’t forget your beveler and binder which together go for the price of a year’s tuition at an Ivy-league school.  A good depth guage is a car payment.  And don’t forget your wrapper, whipping thread, sock, tube…  To keep costs down I guess you don’t have to worry about the finish, just use tung-oil.  Then you don’t need varnish, dip-tanks, color-preserver, or any of that.  But tung-oil rods *often* won’t last a half of a decade. What about hardware?  Snakes and tip-tops are no big deal, but forget about the agate (or even agatine) stripper.  If you find a good agate stripper for less than $30, then you haven’t found agate. (Doesn’t sound like much, but that’s already 10% of your rod.)  To keep costs down, what’s wrong with SiC? Hook-keepers?  Anyone who’s read Garrison knows that American cane rod-makers don’t use hook-keepers.  It’s called a stripping guide. Yup.  Saved money there.  Reel seats?  Forget fancy, how about alder?  Don’t even get me started on ferrules. If you can somehow get all the above costs diffused through an enormous production run so that they retail for under $500, you still haven’t paid you labor.  Even if it’s a labor force of one, Mr. G, he’ll need to eat once in a while.  Hobbyists can finish a cane rod in about 40-50 man-hours.  Custom rods from the 30 or so who make cane rods for a living (full-time) take about 80-100 man-hours.  These folks probably want to charge a little more than minimum wage. There are reasons that cane rods cost as much as they do, and there are reasons that the many attempts to produce low-cost cane rods in the last 30 years have failed.  What you get in a properly made and well-crafted cane rod is not only a superior fishing instrument, but a piece of American history. The cane-rod industry is one of the last in this country that consists of independent artisans who apprentice under masters and continue to improve upon the tradition.  If you read up on the history of cane-rods you’ll notice that even though split-cane and greenheart originated in the UK, the modern tradition of split-cane rods is American and any reputable rod-maker can trace his apprenticeship back to a 19th century master.  Yes, they still cost a lot, but if you ever talk to a full-time rod-maker (at the FFF or somewhere) you’ll see that no one gets rich making rods, they do because they love it. And finally…Is there a real difference between cane and graphite or glass? Well, is there a difference between an Aston-Martin and a Geo?  or is there a difference between Night Train and the Famous Grouse?  Both cars will get you where you want to go and both drinks will eventually get you drunk, but I guess it depends on how you want to get there.  Maybe a better analogy is shaving with garden-shears or a straight razor.  One is clumsy and potentially painful and the other, with a little practice, is an instrument of precision and tradition that is a pleasure to use and surpasses all. If you decide to get a split-cane rod, get the right one for the right reasons.  Don’t get any old BASTARD because it is cheap.  Perhaps the BASTARD will be the rod that will change the ff-ing world.  Perhaps not.  But at least talk to a cane rod-maker (check out the cane Rodmakers page at http://home1.gte.net/jfoster/index.htm) to see what kind of rod they can make you and what their rods can do over a production rod. Oh, but I doubt any of of those rodmakers would be able to seel you a Marryat reel.  Tough luck. The Tonkin Kid

Response:

To all sponsoring and/or midwiving the BASTARD:

and George began his reply: ______ That is me, "tonkin kid".  Talk to me.  I’m the man.  I’m the uno numeruno Bastard you need to address yourself too.  Now then?  You were saying?

(remainder of repartee snipped, in my never-ceasing attempt to save band-width) Go get’em George.  We can’t have these blithering naysayers ruining our fun. Mark Faulkner

Response:

‘kid,’ is licking his wounds.  He will heal though and will come back to try to learn  more about us. O.G.O

Response:

Tonkin Kid, I think you should change your name to "The Foolium Kid". 1. Do you know what the price of a bundle of Tonkin cane is. 2. Do you know the average number of good culms in a bundle of Tonkin cane? 3. Do you know how many rods with extra tips can be built with one culm? 4. Do you know how many strips a man using power tools can plain in a day? 5. Do you know how many blanks one man can finish in a day? 4. Do you know what the mark up is on a bamboo rod? I don’t know where you buy your hardware and materials but you won’t ever find me there.  I have seen figures just like yours trying to justify the cost of graphite rods also, but you should peddle your foolium elsewhere, I am not in the market. Ernie Harrison

Response:

To all sponsoring and/or midwiving the BASTARD: The news surrounding the birth of the BASTARD is nothing short of fantastic. As a fan of split-cane rods, I salute these efforts and think everyone should have the chance to own and fish a properly tooled and crafted cane rod.  So what about the BASTARD?  Does anyone out there really think that a split-cane rod can be produced for $300???!!!  HELLO?!  ARE WE ALL THAT DELUDED??!!?? Cane hex blanks alone wholesale for over $200 and quadrates are double that. But the BASTARDS will be made from cheap cane in a no-nonsense fashion, as if a BLANK has any nonsense.   Cheap cane is cheap because it is covered either with water marks or grower’s marks.  I know, I know…the BASTARD aesthetic is not concerned with aesthetics.  But grower’s marks typically go through the enamel and sever the power bundles.  Yes, this effects casting, noticeably.  Really.  Cane costs could be reduced by making one-tip rods, but that cuts the life of the BASTARD in half. What about the tapers?  Initially, it would be easy enough to sell only one taper/length in each line weight; there are plenty of tapers out on the web. But soon customers won’t be so patient.  You’ll need more.  That means taking the time to reset you planing forms and triple-check the depth.  Then you’ll have to test out guide spacing on each different taper.  Time, time. What about tooling?  To put up with the rigors of production, you’ll have to get decent tooling.  Your cheapest tools will be your planing forms (~$800 for one that will last) and planes (at least four; as much as you want them to be, but don’t skimp on the blades).  Don’t forget your beveler and binder which together go for the price of a year’s tuition at an Ivy-league school.  A good depth guage is a car payment.  And don’t forget your wrapper, whipping thread, sock, tube…  To keep costs down I guess you don’t have to worry about the finish, just use tung-oil.  Then you don’t need varnish, dip-tanks, color-preserver, or any of that.  But tung-oil rods *often* won’t last a half of a decade. What about hardware?  Snakes and tip-tops are no big deal, but forget about the agate (or even agatine) stripper.  If you find a good agate stripper for less than $30, then you haven’t found agate. (Doesn’t sound like much, but that’s already 10% of your rod.)  To keep costs down, what’s wrong with SiC? Hook-keepers?  Anyone who’s read Garrison knows that American cane rod-makers don’t use hook-keepers.  It’s called a stripping guide. Yup.  Saved money there.  Reel seats?  Forget fancy, how about alder?  Don’t even get me started on ferrules. If you can somehow get all the above costs diffused through an enormous production run so that they retail for under $500, you still haven’t paid you labor.  Even if it’s a labor force of one, Mr. G, he’ll need to eat once in a while.  Hobbyists can finish a cane rod in about 40-50 man-hours.  Custom rods from the 30 or so who make cane rods for a living (full-time) take about 80-100 man-hours.  These folks probably want to charge a little more than minimum wage. There are reasons that cane rods cost as much as they do, and there are reasons that the many attempts to produce low-cost cane rods in the last 30 years have failed.  What you get in a properly made and well-crafted cane rod is not only a superior fishing instrument, but a piece of American history. The cane-rod industry is one of the last in this country that consists of independent artisans who apprentice under masters and continue to improve upon the tradition.  If you read up on the history of cane-rods you’ll notice that even though split-cane and greenheart originated in the UK, the modern tradition of split-cane rods is American and any reputable rod-maker can trace his apprenticeship back to a 19th century master.  Yes, they still cost a lot, but if you ever talk to a full-time rod-maker (at the FFF or somewhere) you’ll see that no one gets rich making rods, they do because they love it. And finally…Is there a real difference between cane and graphite or glass? Well, is there a difference between an Aston-Martin and a Geo?  or is there a difference between Night Train and the Famous Grouse?  Both cars will get you where you want to go and both drinks will eventually get you drunk, but I guess it depends on how you want to get there.  Maybe a better analogy is shaving with garden-shears or a straight razor.  One is clumsy and potentially painful and the other, with a little practice, is an instrument of precision and tradition that is a pleasure to use and surpasses all. If you decide to get a split-cane rod, get the right one for the right reasons.  Don’t get any old BASTARD because it is cheap.  Perhaps the BASTARD will be the rod that will change the ff-ing world.  Perhaps not.  But at least talk to a cane rod-maker (check out the cane Rodmakers page at http://home1.gte.net/jfoster/index.htm) to see what kind of rod they can make you and what their rods can do over a production rod. Oh, but I doubt any of of those rodmakers would be able to seel you a Marryat reel.  Tough luck.   The Tonkin Kid

Response:

To all sponsoring and/or midwiving the BASTARD:

______ That is me, "tonkin kid".  Talk to me.  I’m the man.  I’m the uno numeruno Bastard you need to address yourself too.  Now then?  You were saying? Oh?  By the way – Refer to me from now on as "O.G.O." The news surrounding the birth of the BASTARD is nothing short of fantastic.

As a fan of split-cane rods, I salute these efforts and think everyone should have the chance to own and fish a properly tooled and crafted cane rod.  So what about the BASTARD?

dense quality Imported Just For this bastard. Does anyone out there really think that a split-cane rod can be produced for $300???!!!

HELLO?!  ARE WE ALL THAT DELUDED??!!??

Cane hex blanks alone wholesale for over $200 and quadrates are double that.

But the BASTARDS will be made from cheap cane in a no-nonsense fashion, as if a BLANK has any nonsense.

more careful on who you’re talking too here ‘tonkin kid’.  Is that it?  "Tonkin Kid?"  Are you saying you have the market cornered on cheap bamboo?  Sorry.  We don’t want any. Cheap cane is cheap because it is covered either with water marks or grower’s marks.  I know, I know…the BASTARD aesthetic is not concerned with aesthetics.

BASTARD BAMBOO FLY ROD.  This fly fishing world is ready for a Beautiful Bastard – and this is it.  In fact, you’re beginning to qualify for one. But grower’s marks typically go through the enamel and sever the power bundles.  Yes, this effects casting, noticeably.  Really.  Cane costs could be reduced by making one-tip rods, but that cuts the life of the BASTARD in half.

equate your kind of foolishness with a high quality BASTARD FLY ROD.  "Don’t Tread On Me Dude"  Just might become a Bastard Model.  Thank goodness, nothing you’ve said so far applies to a BASTARD FLY ROD.  "Half Life," looks more promising to the "tonkin kid," buddy.  Where do you get off making such outlandish statements and lies?  Do you work for Bill Clinton? What about the tapers?

Initially, it would be easy enough to sell only one taper/length in each line weight; there are plenty of tapers out on the web.

But soon customers won’t be so patient.

You’ll need more.  That means taking the time to reset you planing forms and triple-check the depth.  Then you’ll have to test out guide spacing on each different taper.  Time, time.

BASTARD BAMBOO FLY ROD.  Like I said.  I’m rich. What about tooling?  To put up with the rigors of production, you’ll have to get decent tooling.

tooling is the best in the world.  Do you want to come and work for me? Your cheapest tools will be your planing forms (~$800 for one that will last) and planes (at least four; as much as you want them to be, but don’t skimp on the blades).  Don’t forget your beveler and binder which together go for the price of a year’s tuition at an Ivy-league school.  A good depth guage is a car payment.  And don’t forget your wrapper, whipping thread, sock, tube…  To keep costs down I guess you don’t have to worry about the finish, just use tung-oil.  Then you don’t need varnish, dip-tanks, color-preserver, or any of that.  But tung-oil rods *often* won’t last a half of a decade.

shop.  Everything is free except raw materials.  You need to get your planing forms from someone that doesn’t screw you all the time, kid.  It was "kid" – right? What about hardware?  Snakes and tip-tops are no big deal, but forget about the agate (or even agatine) stripper.  If you find a good agate stripper for less than $30, then you haven’t found agate. (Doesn’t sound like much, but that’s already 10% of your rod.)  To keep costs down, what’s wrong with SiC? Hook-keepers?  Anyone who’s read Garrison knows that American cane rod-makers don’t use hook-keepers.  It’s called a stripping guide. Yup.  Saved money there.  Reel seats?  Forget fancy, how about alder?  Don’t even get me started on ferrules.

have too but, I will admit I’d rather just buy them ready made.  You’re down to nickle/dime stuff.  Hardware.  No mystery in hardware.  If we can’t buy it at a price that is fair, we will make it right here. Kid, you just don’t know what the hell  you’re talking about.  If we can build it cheaper, guess what the choice is going to be? If you can somehow get all the above costs diffused through an enormous production run so that they retail for under $500, you still haven’t paid you labor.  Even if it’s a labor force of one, Mr. G, he’ll need to eat once in a while.  Hobbyists can finish a cane rod in about 40-50 man-hours.  Custom rods from the 30 or so who make cane rods for a living (full-time) take about 80-100 man-hours.  These folks probably want to charge a little more than minimum wage.

person operation.  Automation on as much as is possible is guaranteed.  Those ‘full time’ rod makers have to cut the vacations and coffee breaks pal. I just love it when all these losers keep equating how others should run their businesses.  Has anyone latched onto that yet?  "Welllllllll?"  They think.  If it takes ME 100 hours to make a bamboo fly rod, that means its going to take you 100 hours too." wrong! There are reasons that cane rods cost as much as they do, and there are reasons that the many attempts to produce low-cost cane rods in the last 30 years have failed.  What you get in a properly made and well-crafted cane rod is not only a superior fishing instrument, but a piece of American history. The cane-rod industry is one of the last in this country that consists of independent artisans who apprentice under masters and continue to improve upon the tradition.  If you read up on the history of cane-rods you’ll notice that even though split-cane and greenheart originated in the UK, the modern tradition of split-cane rods is American and any reputable rod-maker can trace his apprenticeship back to a 19th century master.  Yes, they still cost a lot, but if you ever talk to a full-time rod-maker (at the FFF or somewhere) you’ll see that no one gets rich making rods, they do because they love it.

BASTARDS. And finally…Is there a real difference between cane and graphite or glass?

_______Well, gee?  I don’t know?  Is there a difference between land and water? The moon and the sun?  Your wife as compared to mine?  Golfing in the middle of a street and a fairway?  You tell us kid.  This is a heavy question. Well, is there a difference between an Aston-Martin and a Geo?  or is there a difference between Night Train and the Famous Grouse?  Both cars will get you where you want to go and both drinks will eventually get you drunk, but I guess it depends on how you want to get there.  Maybe a better analogy is shaving with garden-shears or a straight razor.  One is clumsy and potentially painful and the other, with a little practice, is an instrument of precision and tradition that is a pleasure to use and surpasses all.

qualified.  Park it dude.  Your engine is racing but your tires are standing still.  All this has NOTHING to do with   BASTARD FLY RODS.  You have not one, single, base point to stand on.  You are just (to be perfectly frank) a baseless opinion.  A noise.  A silent fart in church.  You are way off base on nearly everything.  But!  That is okay.  We get them like you here all the time.  We just need to soften you up a little and get you drunk a time or two.  We might even teach you how to be a success.  Here, anything is possible.  Even for you kid. If you decide to get a split-cane rod, get the right one for the right reasons.  Don’t get any old BASTARD because it is cheap.

pine tree all the time?  Just LISTEN to yourself!  Quote:  "Don’t get any old BASTARD because it is cheap."  Well, there are no other BASTARDS and these are not old.  Right away, you make yourself out an idiot of principle, ‘kid’. This also isn’t ANY old BASTARD.  That is another mistake.  It is my BASTARD FLY ROD COMPANY and you have NO RIGHT to say or ASSUME the things you’re doing here . . . kid. (God, I love this place!) Perhaps the BASTARD

‘hope’ for ‘the kid.’  What do you guys think?  Is he or is not ‘the kid’ qualifying as a real bastard who should own a bastard? will be the rod that will change the ff-ing world.

life.  How do we know?  Because you’re HERE!  It is everyone’s pleasure to meet a cynic such as  yourself.  You

… read more »

Response:

Question:

        As far as I’ve been able to ascertain, no one really knows exactly how far back fly fishing dates. Based on caves drawings and such, we do know that our stoop shouldered, uni-browed ancestors did, in fact, fish. Of course, early fishing techniques lacked a lot of the finesse associated with modern angling. Rods, for instance, were much shorter and heavier, and were used in a somewhat different manner than we are accustomed to. A prehistoric angler, favorite rod in hand, would wade out into a stream and take position. He’d carefully balance his tackle, assuring himself that his grip was firm and proper. After quietly surveying the water, he’d swing the rod in the classic ‘ten o’clock – one o’clock – ten o’clock’ manner. Then he’d bash a fish in the head, pick it up, and eat it raw on the spot.         This style of fishing eventually developed into two distinct areas: one group preferred ’sight bashing’, preferring to actually see a fish before swinging. The other tribe members stuck with the more old fashioned form of ‘blind bashing’. The sight-bashers soon came to hate the blind-bashers, claiming that their particular style was messing up the fishing. The blind-bashers fired back with the old traditionalism vs. neo-fishism, and the debate raged, leading to an inevitable spilt up of the tribe. One group moved upstream and the other, down. It wasn’t long before a splinter group of blind bashers decided that using longer poles was the way to go. They, too, eventually moved out to practice their particular style of fish catching. Before you knew it, ideological angling dichotomy had forced civilization to spread to the four corners of the globe. (Interestingly enough, many of these philosophical arguments continue to this day.)         Of course, early fishermen never really looked upon their labors as being a sport. Owing to the presence of other predators on the stream in those days (saber-toothed tigers, tyrannosauruses, etc.), the prehistoric angler constantly ran the risk of being eaten raw on the spot himself. When a trip to the ol’ fishing hole meant a 50/50 shot of being dinner instead of getting dinner, angling could hardly be considered recreational relaxation. It would be many years before people would look upon fishing as anything but a free, albeit risky, meal.         Our angling ancestors did, however, contribute one thing to the sport which has remained with us. One fine morning, an aboriginal angler (we’ll call him ‘Nok’) was working his favorite stream. At the time of the incident, Nok was using the forerunner of today’s electronic fish finder…that is to say he was knee-deep in the stream, bent over with his head fully submerged. As he scanned the water for his breakfast, a large, fish/angler eating cave bear was also surveying the stream for an early repast. It spotted Nok’s exposed backside, strolled over, sniffed, and then took a tentative exploratory nibble.         Now, a modern angler, no longer attuned to the wilderness environment due to ions of soft, urban living, would have surely met certain death under the same circumstances. Nok, on the other hand, reflexes sharply honed by years of eat-or-be-eaten fishing, reacted instantly. In an explosive, blinding fury of splashing, clubbing, and squealing, Nok was out of the stream and up a tree before the bear’s jaws could clamp completely shut. The astonished bear, left with nothing more than a good soaking and a small piece of loincloth dangling from one tooth, just stood and gazed upward at the terrified caveman, whose trembling had quickly denuded the tree of its leaves. After a fashion, it ambled off in search of a less frisky (and somewhat quieter) meal.         Later that evening, while sitting around the campfire, Nok regaled his small band of fellow anglers with a vivid (and, of course, slightly exaggerated) account of the day’s event. Like all good fishermen, the tribe listened quietly to the story, all the while rolling their eyes and winking at each other when Nok wasn’t looking their way. It wasn’t until Nok turned around and presented the physical evidence that they  believed that this wasn’t just another fishing tale. After much congratulatory grunting and chest pounding, the tribal elder announced that from that evening on Nok would be forever known as ‘Gup Nar’…The One That Got Away. "The gods do not subtract from the allotted span of men’s lives the hours spent in fishing" – ASSYRIAN TABLET (2000 B.C.) Copyright 1997 Da’ Capn

Response:

When was the strike indicator invented?  Is that in part 2? George Adams

Response:

When was the strike indicator invented?

the day the music died… wayno

Response:

A very well researched and thought out article.  In fact there is some evidence to suggest that our uni-browed ancestors were indeed the biological forerunner of todays polarized sunglasses.     Nature, realizeing that the "Uni-Brow" enabled prehistoric man to fish better – the "uni-brow"  helping to cut down on the surface glare from the water – and being unable to develope polarized eyesight from an evolutionary aspect, procedd to evolve (remember Darwin?) a more intelligent species of hominoid who could later invent polarized sunglassed.     Contrary to the established dogma that man gave up hunter-gatherer society to form an agrarian culture to brew beer, modern theorists now opine it was for the purpose of inventing polarized sunglasses to pursue better fishing.     It is, however, well recorded that primitive man related his tales of adventure around the campfire on the night s of the full moon.  And thus, when Nok exposed his backside to prove the veracity of his tale . . . invented the term "mooning."     Practice C&R and you can kill it later . . . . . . .john

Response:

Question:

In leader formulas do the lengths of the sections that are reccomended include the extra length needed to tie the connecting knots or are they reccomending that that length be the finished/after knot length.  Also, nail knot, surgeon’s, or blood knots? Bob

Response:

In leader formulas do the lengths of the sections that are reccomended include the extra length needed to tie the connecting knots or are they reccomending that that length be the finished/after knot length.  Also, nail knot, surgeon’s, or blood knots?

I have always assumed that the formulae refer to the finished length of the sections.  I allow about 1 1/2" for the knots, and this seems to work fine.  The nail knot is used to attach the leader butt to the tip of the flyline.  I use the blood knot, except for the tippet (last) knot, where I use the surgeon’s knot (three-turn version — I think the British call this a water knot.)  FWIW, my own experiments show that the surgeon’s knot, if perfectly tied, is stronger than the blood knot, but leaders tied with blood knots turn over better.  Since most breaks occur at the fly or the tippet knot, I believe that my system is a good compromise.  I have found that blood knots cinch up best when you tie them with one less turn of the heavier material than the lighter.  With the Maxima I use, 4/5 turns on the heavy butt sections and 5/6 turns on the lighter material seems to work well.  Heavy material requires a jerk or tug to properly tighten; the other knots should be pulled gently.  I am sure that I learned much of this from books or magazines, but my old brain can’t cite references.  Hope this helps.  –Roger

Response:

In leader formulas do the lengths of the sections that are reccomended include the extra length needed to tie the connecting knots or are they reccomending that that length be the finished/after knot length.  Also, nail knot, surgeon’s, or blood knots?

Most formula’s I’ve seen are finished length. I usually add about six inches for a knot on each end. You could probably use less, but I find it much less frustrating if I have plenty of material to hold onto when tightening my knots. As for knots, I usually use blood knots on the thicker sections. On the smaller diameter material I do something a little different. I tie a nail knot with the smaller material, but I don’t tighten it completely. I then take the larger diameter material and tie a nail knot with it on the smaller material. I now have two knots that will snug together when I pull on the opposite ends of the material. (I’m not sure if that description makes much sense, but it’s the best I can do!). This technique is admittedly a pain in the ass, but I find  it to be the strongest connection there is. When tied this way, I have NEVER broken a tippet off right at the knot. Surgeon’s or blood knots break at the knot quite often in my experience. Typically, I use this technique when I make up my leaders at home. If I am tying or repairing a leader on the river, I usually use the surgeon’s knot to save time. Tim — To reply by e-mail, remove "sick of spam" from my return address!

Response:

In leader formulas do the lengths of the sections that are reccomended include the extra length needed to tie the connecting knots or are they reccomending that that length be the finished/after knot length.  Also, nail knot, surgeon’s, or blood knots? Bob

I would think most formulas are finished lengths. You will have to give yourself what extra length it will take you to tie the knots. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

Response:

As for knots, I usually use blood knots on the thicker sections. On the smaller diameter material I do something a little different. I tie a nail knot with the smaller material, but I don’t tighten it completely. I then take the larger diameter material and tie a nail knot with it on the smaller material. I now have two knots that will snug together when I pull on the opposite ends of the material. (I’m not sure if that description makes much sense, but it’s the best I can do!). This technique is admittedly a pain in the ass, but I find  it to be the strongest connection there is. When tied this way, I have NEVER broken a tippet off right at the knot. Surgeon’s or blood knots break at the knot quite often in my experience.

I also use the double nail knot for my leaders…mainly because I never learned to tie a proper bloodknot and the double nail is easy with a knot-tying tool (they almost all have instructions on how to tie the double nail). I’ve never heard anyone talk about which is stronger, and assumed it was the bloodknot since that’s what everyone recommends. Typically, I use this technique when I make up my leaders at home. If I am tying or repairing a leader on the river, I usually use the surgeon’s knot to save time.

Same here. Ric

Response:

In leader formulas do the lengths of the sections that are reccomended include the extra length needed to tie the connecting knots or are they reccomending that that length be the finished/after knot length.  Also, nail knot, surgeon’s, or blood knots?

Hi Bob, In leader formulas the length is the finished length.  Don’t get too anal about it though, if you’re off by an inch or so it will still work.  The idea in the tapering sections is to smoothly transmit the power from the fly line down through the leader to the tippet without hinging.  You just need enough line in each section to make that transition.  Try to keep the proportions close as that is the most important (proportion of butt section to tapering section to tippet section) and has the most affect on the performance of the leader. I like to use the nail knot to attach my leader to the fly line (smallest, smoothest connection), the blood knot for the knots in the butt and tapering section (smallest, smoothest connection again), and either the double surgeon’s knot or the Orvis tippet knot for the tippet (extra bulk doesn’t matter here – strength does). When using the blood knot, use only 3 to a maximum or 4 turns in the butt section, 5 turns in the tapering section, and, if you insist on using the blood knot with your tippets, 6 turns with 6X and 7 turns with 7X.  The more turns you use, the more secure the knot is *IF* you can seat it correctly and completely.  Smaller material uses more turns, thicker material demands fewer turns.   A five turn blood knot is almost impossible to seat well in .021" material and will easily slip after soaking in the water for a few minutes if not totally seated.  I typically use a 3 turn blood knot in the butt section and never have it fail. Beware of using other knots in the heavy part of your leader.  The blood knot is the smallest knot you can tie in monofilament, and the easiest to move through the guides.  A double surgeon’s knot is twice as bulky, and although very slightly stronger than a blood knot, also tends to get caught in the corners of the snake guides when that big fish makes one final lunge.  This results in broken-off fish, zippered-off line guides, broken rod as it gets stuck in the tip-top, or all of the above.  Not a good choice in the heavy section of the leader.  The extra bulk is no big deal in the fine part of the leader because it is just a little bump in the line with little chance of moving through the line guides let alone getting stuck in them.                                           Hope this helps,                                                     Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

Response:

I also use the double nail knot for my leaders…mainly because I never learned to tie a proper bloodknot and the double nail is easy with a knot-tying tool (they almost all have instructions on how to tie the double nail). I’ve never heard anyone talk about which is stronger, and assumed it was the bloodknot since that’s what everyone recommends.

I started using the double nail knot because it is so similar to a knot that I used many years ago when I was a rock climber. The climbing knot was considered one of the strongest because it relies on the force of the knots opposing each other rather than simply on tightening itself under a load. I don’t know which one is actually stronger, but I do know that I have never broken at the knot with the double nail, but I have with the blood knot. In all honesty though, I’ve used te blood knot longer than the double nail so it just may be a matter of time. I’m sticking with the double nail for now. Tim — To reply by e-mail, remove "sick of spam" from my return address!

Response:

Dan Gracia, Your explanations of casting and rod flex finally tell me what have caused my problems going back and forth between different rods.   What is the Orvis tippet knot?  If its for connecting tippet to leader rather than tippet to hook is there a picture on the web or in a book?                                                  Doug Campbell

Response:

Dan Gracia, Your explanations of casting and rod flex finally tell me what have caused my problems going back and forth between different rods.   What is the Orvis tippet knot?  If its for connecting tippet to leader rather than tippet to hook is there a picture on the web or in a book?                                               Doug Campbell

Hi Doug, There is a description of it in the Waterproof Knot Booklet that Orvis sells for around $5.  It’s a slight variation of the Orvis knot to tie on the fly. Basically a figure 8 knot with two turns through the  second loop.  I’ll see if I can scan a copy of it and e-mail it to you.  If you ever get an Orvis knotless leader and send in that little blue card,  they’ll send you a plastic wallet size card with the tippet to hook knot on one side and the leader to tippet knot on the other – no charge.                                  Good Fishing,                                         Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

Response:

Question:

I lost the post regarding information on the classes offered in Sept/Oct regarding the Striped Bass in Frank’s Tract.  Anyone have this info, please reply.   I believe the classes were around $125. Thanks,   Howard

Response:

<<I lost the post regarding information on the classes offered in Sept/Oct regarding the Striped Bass in Frank’s Tract.  Anyone have this info, please reply.   I believe the classes were around $125. Thanks,   Howard

—

Response:

I lost the post regarding information on the classes offered in Sept/Oct regarding the Striped Bass in Frank’s Tract.   I believe the classes were around $125. Thanks,   Howard

It was from Fish First in Albany – 510/526-1937.  Begins early Oct.   Sounds interesting moght see you there. bob

Response:

Question:

Any hints/shops people can recommend for an end of August trip to 10Mile Lake near Hackensack MN? I’m bringing both fly-fishing & baitcasting gear in the hopes of catching my first walleye. mike chin

Response:

Any hints/shops people can recommend for an end of August trip to 10Mile Lake near Hackensack MN? I’m bringing both fly-fishing & baitcasting gear in the hopes of catching my first walleye. mike chin

Yes.  Try "long-lining" a straight gold/black rapala in the late evening and night.  Troll shallow and at medium speeds with an electric. This is how we used to fish this lake, and at times this produced extremely nice walleyes. -tgades

Response:

Any hints/shops people can recommend for an end of August trip to 10Mile Lake near Hackensack MN? I’m bringing both fly-fishing & baitcasting gear in the hopes of catching my first walleye. mike chin

Talk to the folks in Reeds Sporting Goods in Walker, Mn. they should know where the walleyes are biting.  Never caught one on a fly though.

Response: