Question:

The fates have decreed I must go to Rockport, Texas this weekend and could have time to fish Monday and/or Tuesday.  I’m not after anything specific but am *not* equipped to fish the salt.  Hell, bluegills will be just fine…..any suggestions?  No boat this trip. Frank Church

Response:

Frank, Since I don’t see much advice – I can offer my 2cents – the area you’ll be in is a tough one to come up with "non salt" unless you want to drive a long distance. If your interested I’ll post a map of the area and a few suggestions on possible light saltwater flyfishing. Gary

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The fates have decreed I must go to Rockport, Texas this weekend and could have time to fish Monday and/or Tuesday.  I’m not after anything specific but am *not* equipped to fish the salt.  Hell, bluegills will be just fine…..any suggestions?  No boat this trip. Frank Church

Response:

Thanks Gary, but that being the case I’ll just drop my load and hustle on home. I’ll work on my dispatcher to get me a run to Florida instead. Frank Church – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Frank, Since I don’t see much advice – I can offer my 2cents – the area you’ll be in is a tough one to come up with "non salt" unless you want to drive a long distance. If your interested I’ll post a map of the area and a few suggestions on possible light saltwater flyfishing. Gary The fates have decreed I must go to Rockport, Texas this weekend and could have time to fish Monday and/or Tuesday.  I’m not after anything specific but am *not* equipped to fish the salt.  Hell, bluegills will be just fine…..any suggestions?  No boat this trip. Frank Church

Response:

Question:

"On its banks, I’ve tasted my first whiskey, caught my first trout on a fly, read great books, made love and created new friendships." Was this all on the same day??? <GRIN MikeS

Yes. Tuesday, February 5th. The whiskey and fishing parts were easy enough, but it is damn hard to get her out of her drawers in sub-freezing weather. Steve

Response:

but for now, the White Clay is the most beautiful river I’ve ever laid a fly on.

That’s not what you meant by making love, was it? <g  I’d better ask Warren about this; he knows about animal husbandry and stuff like that. Mu

Response:

Did you ask the Ranger about the dying trout?

You know, I didn’t think of it. I really should have. Mea maxima culpa. Steve

Response:

That’s not what you meant by making love, was it? <g  I’d better ask Warren about this; he knows about animal husbandry and stuff like that.

I just can’t understand why you keep trying to impregnate fish Mu. I mean you explanation of "tired of stockers and want some fockers" was funny and all, but . . . . <g — Warren For Henry’s Fork Clave and Bozeman fishing info www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt Reverse email to reply

Response:

I just can’t understand why you keep trying to impregnate fish Mu.

Call me Uncle Milty. Mu

Response:

<Snip As I understand it, WCC is both in DE and PA.   What part do you fish? Joe F.

I fish mainly from the Pennsylvania line down but sometimes as far up as the Ticking Tomb (the historic graveyard on Good Hope Road). Make sure you have both DE and PA licenses because the rangers like to hide about a hundred feet on either side of the unmarked border and they love writing tickets. In the sections where the trails are far away from the river, it feels rather remote. Most of it is pretty exposed, though. Somebody or other got it in their head that the park was under-utilized and needed better access. They graded paths, installed bridges and built parking lots. This is nice for the community, but bad for people who go for solitary fishing. Also, if you hook your hat or fall in, there are usually a couple of passers-by to derive great merriment. Come summer, the smallies and sunnies will come out and compete with the trout and the fishing never slows down. I go through a dozen or so crickets and hoppers in a month of fishing, most of them worn out from greedy sunfish and smallies. It isn’t a famous river, or a good one. I would never eat a fish out of it and I don’t like to swim or wade wet in it but it is my river. One day, maybe this summer, I’ll head out to Oregon and go after some Cascades salmon or to the Poconos for some wild brookies, but for now, the White Clay is the most beautiful river I’ve ever laid a fly on.

Response:

"On its banks, I’ve tasted my first whiskey, caught my first trout on a fly, read great books, made love and created new friendships." Was this all on the same day??? <GRIN MikeS

Response:

<SNIP Excellent, most enjoyable. TL MC

Response:

Pardon me. I’ve had one too may glasses of the Royal Lochnagar and I don’t think my spell checker is functioning properly. The White Clay Creek is my home river. …..

A very pleasing read.  Thanks. JR

Response:

When I’m suited up and on the water, I forget these things. I get tunnel vision and focus on the river. The sensations of it overwhelm me and I lose myself fishing in it.

Enjoyed it, Thanks. — Roger Ohlund "Home" is River Byske, Northern Sweden

Response:

The White Clay Creek is my home river. In the past fifteen years, I’ve never lived more than twenty minutes from it.

Well told.   Thanks.   Oddly enough, I’m only about 45 minutes from WCC myself, but I’ve never fished it.   A friend of a friend of mine is involved in the stocking, and he and his buddies (which to my dismay include my friend) make an excursion each spring, armed with garden hackle, and unceremoniusly catch their limit in the illusion of sport.   Maybe that gave me a negative attitude toward the river, that your post has washed clean. Maybe I’ll give it a look after all. As I understand it, WCC is both in DE and PA.   What part do you fish? Joe F.

Response:

<snip Nice. I can see it clearly. Tim

Response:

The White Clay Creek is my home river.

        (snip)         very well done, stephen.  thanks your friend in the old north state wayno

Response:

The White Clay Creek is my home river.

Thanks for the post. Be it ever so humble there’s no place like a Home River. There’s nothing that can teach you about fishing like having a river close enough that you can learn its many moods. Did you ask the Ranger about the dying trout? Willi

Response:

Pardon me. I’ve had one too may glasses of the Royal Lochnagar and I don’t think my spell checker is functioning properly. The White Clay Creek is my home river. In the past fifteen years, I’ve never lived more than twenty minutes from it. In some respects, I hold it cheap in that I can come back the next day. Realistically, any time I don’t *have* to be somewhere else, I can be at this river. No matter how often I can or do visit, it is still my river. On its banks, I’ve tasted my first whiskey, caught my first trout on a fly, read great books, made love and created new friendships. This river I hold as my personal domain and a portion of myself. But when I try to look at it objectively, I realize it is a pretty shitty river for my affections. The fish are put-and-take. The anglers are Busch-drinking worm-drowning Winston-smoking NASCAR fans (these things are not intrinsically bad, but what they do to Dover Downs, they do to my river). The road is next to a college town and full of mountain bikers, joggers and ROTC (they aren’t intrinsically bad, just loud and scary to the trout). When I’m suited up and on the water, I forget these things. I get tunnel vision and focus on the river. The sensations of it overwhelm me and I lose myself fishing in it. Last Sunday I went to my river and fished it. I knew trouble was in the works: Minivans pulled into the parking lot, filled with rock-throwing children and water-loving dogs, but I have a blind spot where my river is concerned, and I believed that it would give to me as it has in the past. I walked down and looked at the spot I had in mind. The flow was extremely slow, the pool was deep and the rocks were plentiful. Prime winter habitat, I believed. After a few seconds, I noticed the smell. It was a fishy smell, but not a pleasant one. I stopped tying on a nymph and looked at the shallows around me and found the problem. Three twelve-inch rainbows, contorted in the rictus of death lying in the rocks. Whether or not they had anything to do with this pool, I don’t know. I took it as a sign to move on. Of course, as I worked my way further up stream, I had to talk to several small children (which I don’t mind as long as they go away soon), their parents (who are just as foolish without the excuse), dog owners and their wet dogs, the University of Delaware ROTC (a one-sided conversation consisting of cadence) and the ranger (who needed a good look at my license and had to tell me about the October stocking and the season closing a month from now). That morning, I didn’t go to the river for conversation. I reached the next pool, and found that it was too low. So was the next, and the one after that. So low, the normally submerged rocks stuck out. I though about examining them for my lost flies, but that almost feels like grave robbing. Those flies, tied carefully or bought dearly, are part of the price exacted by my river. They are no longer mine (the trees are another matter). The final pool I came to was a huge bend in an otherwise small river, with two unused bridge caissons in the middle. Biologically, these caissons are interesting. They are hotbeds of Canada goose ethology. As I watched, three pairs of geese did their equivalent of dancing and brawling. Who am I to tell them they are acting indecently and scaring my trout? At the bottom end of the bend pool, I cast a hare’s ear. This was the first fly I ever tied. It was rather ugly, but then who’s first wasn’t? I figured that since this was my last pool, losing an ugly fly really didn’t mean much. When the tight loop flies out, watching it with my peripheral is a sublime pleasure. It is a personal triumph, a testament to my own ability and resource. No other person can claim responsibility for that particular beautiful thing. I suppose it is akin to taking joy in some structure I designed or words I joined in a certain way, but this is unique in that nobody taught me or polished me. That loop is mine and mine alone. I drifted through the tail of the pool once and again. On the third, I felt the connection. Fish on. I landed a sprightly rainbow, almost devoid of color on its silver sides. It wasn’t a big fish, even for my river, but it was a work of art like every trout plucked from a river is. After I sent the trout back, I could smell the smell a trout leaves on your hands, one entirely different from the smell of any other fish I’ve ever handled. It smelled like some sort of herb. I leaned against an abutment from a long-gone bridge and lit a cigarette and thanked my river, once again, for a trout. — Stephen L. Cain

Response:

Question:

What am I doing wrong???? Thanks.

–Fish just the high tide change.   A hour before to a hour after the change in high tide.  Have a beer and relaxe, they probably won’t bite any other time of the day. Sharp Hooks, Pat Holdzit Fishing Products Inc. http://www.holdzit.com Before you buy.

Response:

Hi Derek, As Chris mentioned below, Silvers can get very hard to catch after they have entered the river. If you are still in the tide water of this river I would try to go upstream to the top pool where the fish hold waiting for rain or go downstream to the mouth or closer to the ocean where they are more aggressive. I would try morning and evening and on the outgoing tide? We fish for them every year south of Cordova, Alaska right on the ocean where they are almost like stripers in the surf. We use only floating lines and when it is smooth on top and not too windy, we use Pink Pollywogs on top that are clipped deer hair poppers. If you can wade for them at the mouth of a river, they are way more aggressive. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Help!  I suck at fly fishing for coho.  I have been trying unsuccessfully for about 3 outings so far to catch coho on the fly on the Capilano River, in North Vancouver.  I’ve concentrated on one pool in particular that looks like a fly should work.  Slow-moving, deep pool.  Gravel bank on one side and steep canyon wall on the far side.  Casting both a 14ft fast sink tip and a floating line in all sorts of water conditions, from turbid to crystal clear, and river conditions from unwadable to low and clear. I’ve been trying muddler minnows, mylar body minows, red, yellow and silver needlefish, leeches, mickey finns, you name it.  Been stripping fairly fast, in 8 inch pulls, as I read was the preferred technique. I see the odd coho porpoising on the surface, and guys catching a few using spoons. What am I doing wrong???? Thanks.

Response:

Salmon fishing with a fly is one of those things that you just have to put a lot of time in before you catch one.   Three outings is nothing, I know a fellow who spent three seasons at it before he caught one, then things started to pick up for him.  Fishing for West Coast Salmon and Steel Head with a fly is a difficult, but enjoyable. Ernie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Help!  I suck at fly fishing for coho.  I have been trying unsuccessfully for about 3 outings so far to catch coho on the fly on the Capilano River, in North Vancouver.  I’ve concentrated on one pool in particular that looks like a fly should work.  Slow-moving, deep pool.  Gravel bank on one side and steep canyon wall on the far side.  Casting both a 14ft fast sink tip and a floating line in all sorts of water conditions, from turbid to crystal clear, and river conditions from unwadable to low and clear. I’ve been trying muddler minnows, mylar body minows, red, yellow and silver needlefish, leeches, mickey finns, you name it.  Been stripping fairly fast, in 8 inch pulls, as I read was the preferred technique. I see the odd coho porpoising on the surface, and guys catching a few using spoons. What am I doing wrong???? Thanks.

Response:

Salmon fishing with a fly is one of those things that you just have to put a lot of time in before you catch one.   Three outings is nothing, I know a fellow who spent three seasons at it before he caught one, then things started to pick up for him.  Fishing for West Coast Salmon and Steel Head with a fly is a difficult, but enjoyable. Ernie

the other thing he can try is fishing for the coho out in the saltwater when they are actually feeding… makes a big difference in the aggressiveness of the coho.  out in the salt the coho are super aggressive and they bite well.   but the coho in the rivers definetely seem to turn on and off.  when they are off, they will hit nothing, no matter what.  try off-color water and early morning times, they have worked better than anything else for me. chris

Response:

Help!  I suck at fly fishing for coho.  I have been trying unsuccessfully for about 3 outings so far to catch coho on the fly on the Capilano River, in North Vancouver.  I’ve concentrated on one pool in particular that looks like a fly should work.  Slow-moving, deep pool.  Gravel bank on one side and steep canyon wall on the far side.  Casting both a 14ft fast sink tip and a floating line in all sorts of water conditions, from turbid to crystal clear, and river conditions from unwadable to low and clear. I’ve been trying muddler minnows, mylar body minows, red, yellow and silver needlefish, leeches, mickey finns, you name it.  Been stripping fairly fast, in 8 inch pulls, as I read was the preferred technique. I see the odd coho porpoising on the surface, and guys catching a few using spoons. What am I doing wrong???? Thanks.

Response:

Question:

It’s easy, tell your wife that in your OLD AGE you can’t throw the heavier 4, 6 and 8 wts. You need the lighter 3, 5 and 7 wts. You try this first and let me know if it works. Good luck Jim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m giving a lot away about age here, but my very first fly rod wasn’t rated for line weight. It was rated for diameter. "H" was the small diameter; "A" was as thick as you could get. HCH would be a double taper, with "C" being the middle diameter. Density wasn’t mentioned, nor was weight. So rods might cast an HCH floating line, but an HEH (!) sinker. And you could really only tell by trial and error. As you might guess, the weight system was and is a godsend. When I bought my first weight-rated rod, the generally-recommended line for trout stream fishing was a 6. Naturally, that’s where I started. Over the years I’ve accumulated a "kangaroo quiver" of rods. That is, line weights 2, 4, 6 and 8 (hopping over the odd numbered line weights). Covers most every situation I face. At this point, that collection is pretty complete. I’ve noticed though, that 5-weights, 3-weights, 7-weights, etc. have been getting a lot more mention in postings here, in magazine articles, and so forth. I think someone starting now would probably be in the odd-numbered weights? Is there a reason for this? More importantly, is there any way I can use this as a way to convince my wife that I need 3, 5, 7 and 9-weight rods?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m giving a lot away about age here, but my very first fly rod wasn’t rated for line weight. It was rated for diameter. "H" was the small diameter; "A" was as thick as you could get. HCH would be a double taper, with "C" being the middle diameter. Density wasn’t mentioned, nor was weight. So rods might cast an HCH floating line, but an HEH (!) sinker. And you could really only tell by trial and error. As you might guess, the weight system was and is a godsend. When I bought my first weight-rated rod, the generally-recommended line for trout stream fishing was a 6. Naturally, that’s where I started. Over the years I’ve accumulated a "kangaroo quiver" of rods. That is, line weights 2, 4, 6 and 8 (hopping over the odd numbered line weights). Covers most every situation I face. At this point, that collection is pretty complete. I’ve noticed though, that 5-weights, 3-weights, 7-weights, etc. have been getting a lot more mention in postings here, in magazine articles, and so forth. I think someone starting now would probably be in the odd-numbered weights? Is there a reason for this? More importantly, is there any way I can use this as a way to convince my wife that I need 3, 5, 7 and 9-weight rods?

Simply put-yes,no. Actually Most people are like you and me, evens. However I do have 3, 5, 7 also. Because most people started out even, there is a large market for odds. Magazines sell adds, adds sell products. Writters are paid by magazines nuff said. In my case I bought a 7.5′ 3wt for bream, the 8wt for bass, 7wt for salt or big trout and 5wt for average to big trout. If you get the cheaper rods and spend the difference on flowers you gat a chance.                                                        John Popp                                                    in Sanford Fl.

Response:

I think someone starting now would probably be in the odd-numbered weights? Is there a reason for this? More importantly, is there any way I can use this as a way to convince my wife that I need 3, 5, 7 and 9-weight rods?

  There is a reason for it:  materials.  WIth today’s carbon-fibre rods, a five weight can carry the workload that a six weight used to, but you benefit from the additional touch of the lighter rod, and also fromthe fact that it’s, well, lighter.  Your arm doesn’t get as tired.   Does that mean you should go load up on odd numbers…man, I’m not gonna be the man to face your wife with that one.

Response:

I’m giving a lot away about age here, but my very first fly rod wasn’t rated for line weight. It was rated for diameter. "H" was the small diameter; "A" was as thick as you could get. HCH would be a double taper, with "C" being the middle diameter. Density wasn’t mentioned, nor was weight. So rods might cast an HCH floating line, but an HEH (!) sinker. And you could really only tell by trial and error. As you might guess, the weight system was and is a godsend. When I bought my first weight-rated rod, the generally-recommended line for trout stream fishing was a 6. Naturally, that’s where I started. Over the years I’ve accumulated a "kangaroo quiver" of rods. That is, line weights 2, 4, 6 and 8 (hopping over the odd numbered line weights). Covers most every situation I face. At this point, that collection is pretty complete. I’ve noticed though, that 5-weights, 3-weights, 7-weights, etc. have been getting a lot more mention in postings here, in magazine articles, and so forth. I think someone starting now would probably be in the odd-numbered weights? Is there a reason for this? More importantly, is there any way I can use this as a way to convince my wife that I need 3, 5, 7 and 9-weight rods?

Response:

Question:

HI, has anyone built a whitewater dory from plans.  I have found some Mckenzie Drift boat plans, and these seam very similat to what I want. Any help appreciated. Steve Gubser Johnson City, TN

Response:

There are a number of suppliers for your project. Check out a fly fishing magazine in the classified.  Don Hill  in Springfield Oregon  puts out plan, partial kit, and full kit.  (www.driftboats.com)  or Driftboat plans from Montana, www.montana-riverboats.com/boats/index.html,  Tracy Obrian at www.calacess.com/tracy/boatpage.htm or Greg Tatman Wooden boats  at www.gregboats.com .  Also John’s  page if useful, www.cyber-dyne.com/jkohnen/nautical.html  Have fun.  I’m currently working on a highsided 18′  for GrandCanyon and Salmon/Snake waters.

Response:

Question:

     Seems like we’ve finally accomplished something?  :-)

and what would that "something" be?         -tgades — Tony Gades. Seattle, WA.  USA http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades/Fishing/fish_page.html email: replace the "this_address_is_wrong" with "tgades"

Response:

 It seems to me that fly casting is using the weight of the line to carry the lure or (fly) to the fish. I’m attracted to this definition…..

At the age of 46, I’d be inclined to agree.  But here’s a story from my youth you may find amusing.  Back in ‘63, I was in Sequoia camping with a ‘Y’ group of youths my age.  We were there for fishing and hiking. ‘Fishing’ was the operative word, since no one had ‘caught’ anything.  At that time, FF wasn’t nearly the designer sport it is today.  I had only seen a couple people doing it and I was a fair distance away:  totally naive to the special gear required for the graceful casts. Taking my self quite seriously, I started whipping a spoon around using my 6′ ft, fiberglass, $12 Thrifty spinning rod and reel.  There I was, whippin that thing back and forth and every once in a while lettin the spoon drag through the pool.  On one of my "backcasts" I literally yanked a little 8 incher right out of the water, totally surprising both of us.  (This was the only trout caught by anyone on the trip!).  Subsequent flailing, for an hour or so produced no more fish.  Go figure.  I guess I put ‘em all down. (The most amazing part of this story is that I still have both of my eyes).  Now you can easily convince this 46 year old that aint flyfishin, but don’t try to convince that 12 year old kid.   Now we’re getting somewhere. Fly fishing is the use of a fly rod to propel anything so light it needs the weight of the line to get anywhere. The use of lightweight bobbers and multiple flies can still be called "fly fishing".

I guess this pretty well rules out spin casting a clear bubble attached above a 6′ leader having a dry fly attached.  Personally, this works for me because the result is to drift flies with a presentation that fools the fish in the same way your defined technique does.  (I don’t do this anymore, but it certainly wouldn’t chap my hide if I say someone plying ff only waters in this fashion, especially if it was a young’un)

Response:

   Seems like we’ve finally accomplished something?  :-)

(hee hee) What is flyfishing ? If you have to ask or try and define it, you’ll never understand it. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

        Seems like we’ve finally accomplished something?  :-) and what would that "something" be?

the first internet gigabyte waste of bandwith for "1997 Useless Threads" category…… — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  It seems to me that fly casting is using the weight of the line to carry the lure or (fly) to the fish. I’m attracted to this definition…..  Now we’re getting somewhere. Fly fishing is the use of a fly rod to propel anything so light it needs the weight of the line to get anywhere. The use of lightweight bobbers and multiple flies can still be called "fly fishing". RALPH may or may not want an amemdment to exclude the use of lightweight spoons or wigglers. Note: that doesn’t mean we can’t fish with bass poppers….It just puts a tight limit on how we categorize them.   Seems like we’ve finally accomplished something?  :-)

Maybe it could be simpler, fly fishing is fishing with a fly line. — Charlie…

Response:

 It seems to me that fly casting is using the weight of the line to carry the lure or (fly) to the fish. I’m attracted to this definition…..

  Now we’re getting somewhere. Fly fishing is the use of a fly rod to propel anything so light it needs the weight of the line to get anywhere. The use of lightweight bobbers and multiple flies can still be called "fly fishing". RALPH may or may not want an amemdment to exclude the use of lightweight spoons or wigglers. Note: that doesn’t mean we can’t fish with bass poppers….It just puts a tight limit on how we categorize them.    Seems like we’ve finally accomplished something?  :-)

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m going to make one post about the definition of ff and then say no more.  It seems to me that fly casting is using the weight of the line to carry the lure or (fly) to the fish. As long as the lure is so light as to require a line to carry it to the fish it seems you are fly casting. As for what is fly fishing, you now have many different lures or (flies) that fit into the definition above. These lures or flies range from #32 up to 8" long or longer. I maintain you are fly fishing as long as you NEED the weight of the line to carry the fly to the fish. I don’t see how the use of boats or strike indicators, or anything else enters into the definition. Certainly, some types of fly fishing are more difficult than others. It doesn’t mean the others aren’t fly fishing. I think we should encourage all kinds of fly fishing. The young person we help now, with his poppers for largemouth, may someday be a #32 hook in-the-film emerger fisherman. That’s all brothers. Hope you all have a great summer of fly fishing. Jim

I’m attracted to this definition having posted something similar some time back. It concentrates on one major factor that makes flyfishing different; the cast. It also seems more consistent with the more ‘catholic’ outlook most flyfishers have these days (includes me) – adopt what works within rather broad confines. I do think though we have to exclude obvious ‘lures’ (spoons spinners etc) but don’t know what to do about "flys" that act like lures –  spoons flies tullis wigglers, plastic bills on bass poppers etc. So many of these things are constructed the same way we tie flies so though I’m tend to be not convinced they are flies I use them rather than condemn them. Ralph H replace "spamsucks" with direct for email reply.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m going to make one post about the definition of ff and then say no more.  It seems to me that fly casting is using the weight of the line to carry the lure or (fly) to the fish. As long as the lure is so light as to require a line to carry it to the fish it seems you are fly casting. As for what is fly fishing, you now have many different lures or (flies) that fit into the definition above. These lures or flies range from #32 up to 8" long or longer. I maintain you are fly fishing as long as you NEED the weight of the line to carry the fly to the fish. I don’t see how the use of boats or strike indicators, or anything else enters into the definition. Certainly, some types of fly fishing are more difficult than others. It doesn’t mean the others aren’t fly fishing. I think we should encourage all kinds of fly fishing. The young person we help now, with his poppers for largemouth, may someday be a #32 hook in-the-film emerger fisherman. That’s all brothers. Hope you all have a great summer of fly fishing. Jim

Hi Jim Good point. I agree it’s a lot more important to help a kid get started than to argue about what fly fishing is. You also have a good summer. Take care & … — Tight Lines ….. Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Catalog,Tips & Tricks, Fishing Reports, & NeverSink at: http://www.btsflyfishing.com

Response:

I’m going to make one post about the definition of ff and then say no more.  It seems to me that fly casting is using the weight of the line to carry the lure or (fly) to the fish. As long as the lure is so light as to require a line to carry it to the fish it seems you are fly casting. As for what is fly fishing, you now have many different lures or (flies) that fit into the definition above. These lures or flies range from #32 up to 8" long or longer. I maintain you are fly fishing as long as you NEED the weight of the line to carry the fly to the fish. I don’t see how the use of boats or strike indicators, or anything else enters into the definition. Certainly, some types of fly fishing are more difficult than others. It doesn’t mean the others aren’t fly fishing. I think we should encourage all kinds of fly fishing. The young person we help now, with his poppers for largemouth, may someday be a #32 hook in-the-film emerger fisherman. That’s all brothers. Hope you all have a great summer of fly fishing. Jim

Response:

Question:

Kind sir, As pointed out by the gentleman before me… I bet I could cross your eyes with a hookset on a good Gamaguchii hook and a Kit Kat…  Too easy… <G  Try fly-fishing over selective trout and tell me who THAT’s unfair to

Response:

Just in case you have not noticed yet: LIFE IS NOT FAIR. Once one realizes that, it is easier to cope.  Now suck it up, stop snivelling, and get on with it! Steve, the DsrtTravlr

Response:

I do not think that using lures is fair to the fish. Lures are not part of their natural environment you sandheads. It would be as if someone was dragging a stack of $100 bills on the ground. Live bait is the only fair way to catch fish. Everything else is just a crutch for poor fishing technique. If any of you clowns want to discuss this, email me and MAYBE I’ll tell you some of my super secret tricks that I use with a worm. Bye jerkheads!

Shows just how little you actually know about fishing. If your super secret tricks are hanging a Night Crawler off a hook, you can keep them. That’s too easy. Give the fish a fighting chance by using artificial lures! Dale Ross Microsoft BackOffice MVP ClubIE Team 5 Captain, ClubWin Chapter 10 Head http://www.clubie.com http://www.clubwin.com |   Win32 Support BBS Charlotte, NC USA (704) 588-2669         | |            http://win32supportbbs.vnet.net/                  | "Nothing I have written here is in any way, shape, or form official or unofficial L & H Technologies policy or opinion. It’s simply my opinion that I hope they agree with! <G"

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go fish

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I do not think that using lures is fair to the fish. Lures are not part of their natural environment you sandheads. It would be as if someone was dragging a stack of $100 bills on the ground. Live bait is the only fair way to catch fish. Everything else is just a crutch for poor fishing technique.

Wait a minute.. in my experience, it MUCH EASIER to catch a fish on live bait!!  If anything, using live bait is ‘unfair.’ -Mark

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Wait a minute.. in my experience, it MUCH EASIER to catch a fish on live bait!!  If anything, using live bait is ‘unfair.’

Bait is easier. All fishermen know that. But some of you guys are missing the point here. This dickwad dont fish, he just gets a rise out of starting long pointless threads on newsgroups by coming out with belligerent statements carefully designed to piss people off. And he is good at it. This thread is way longer than almost all legit questions posted here. I see guys asking about line, or tips on setting hooks, and they get almost no response. And here a worthless scumbag gets all the traffic he wants and he doesnt even give a crap about fishing. I suppose the thread is usefull in that its a debate over what is easier to catch fish on. But I am almost insulted that other decent folks are asking for help here and are not getting it while this guy gets more response from this group than he deserves. Definately a very successfull troller. You guys should quit biting. stev — stev_ix_netcom_com is a fake. Sorry, Im tired of all the crap I get in the mail.    

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I read your post, and although I disagree greatly with you, I’d like to discuss this.  First of all, I don’t believe that lures are unfair to the fish, in fact, if I’m not catching anything on a lure, I’ll switch to a worm and fish for whatever bites (usually bluegill, sunfish, small bass, etc).  Number 2, I fish lures because it is challenging.  I do not understand your reasoning on a lure being mean to the fish.  When you catch a fish on a worm, do you give him the worm?  If not, you don’t make any sense.  Also, you’d better pray to God that a fisherman/hacker didn’t read your post, especially the ‘Bye Jerkheads!’ part.  Have a nice day, Mike Zansk

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Is this the same muscle bound moron we’ve been having so much fun with lately?

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I do not think that using lures is fair to the fish. Lures are not part of their natural environment you sandheads. It would be as if someone was dragging a stack of $100 bills on the ground. Live bait is the only fair way to catch fish. Everything else is just a crutch for poor fishing technique. If any of you clowns want to discuss this, email me and MAYBE I’ll tell you some of my super secret tricks that I use with a worm. Bye jerkheads! Scott Mulligan

artificial to the fishes world, and to be able to put this man made object in to that world, and completely fool the fish into striking it, as if it is something to eat is what it’s all about. Any dumbass can put live bait on a hook and the fish will eat it, that’s not fair to the fish. With an artificial, he at least has a chance to reject the offering. What if I put a candy bar on your Mom’s kitchen counter, and waited for your ass to come and eat it, and when you did, I jacked your jaws into the next county, now that that would be unfair. Just kiddin!

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I read your post, and although I disagree greatly with you, I’d like to discuss this.  First of all, I don’t believe that lures are unfair to the fish, in fact, if I’m not catching anything on a lure, I’ll switch to a worm and fish for whatever bites (usually bluegill, sunfish, small bass, etc).  Number 2, I fish lures because it is challenging.  I do not understand your reasoning on a lure being mean to the fish.  When you catch a fish on a worm, do you give him the worm?  If not, you don’t make any sense.  Also, you’d better pray to God that a fisherman/hacker didn’t read your post, especially the ‘Bye Jerkheads!’ part.  Have a nice day, Mike Zansk

Maybe you’re new to this thread Mike, but Scott old boy(?) get his jollies by trolling with an outrageous statement then appartently sitting back and watching the results until it peters out, when he submits another "gem". He’s not interested in discussion and is best ignored… — Tight lines and sharp hooks, Capt. Mark Poirier – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<OOOO))’

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I do not think that using lures is fair to the fish. Lures are not part of their natural environment you sandheads. It would be as if someone was dragging a stack of $100 bills on the ground. Live bait is the only fair way to catch fish. Everything else is just a crutch for poor fishing technique. If any of you clowns want to discuss this, email me and MAYBE I’ll tell you some of my super secret tricks that I use with a worm. Bye jerkheads! Scott Mulligan

If lures are too effective to be "fair" (whatever that means) then live bait is even MORE "unfair" because it’s usually more effective, in my experience.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I do not think that using lures is fair to the fish. Lures are not part of their natural environment you sandheads. It would be as if someone was dragging a stack of $100 bills on the ground. Live bait is the only fair way to catch fish. Everything else is just a crutch for poor fishing technique. If any of you clowns want to discuss this, email me and MAYBE I’ll tell you some of my super secret tricks that I use with a worm. Bye jerkheads! Scott Mulligan

who says 100 dollar bills dragging on the ground is not in my enivornment!Besides your mistake is comparing fish to human beings. As thinking beings we have created a way to fish without using LIVE bait and that means saving the life of those creatures used as LIVE BAIT.

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You probably dont even have a worm….. other than the ones you got through a hole in the wall in a peep-show booth. GO AWAY MORON mark s.

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I do not think that using lures is fair to the fish. Lures are not part of their natural environment you sandheads. It would be as if someone was dragging a stack of $100 bills on the ground. Live bait is the only fair way to catch fish. Everything else is just a crutch for poor fishing technique. If any of you clowns want to discuss this, email me and MAYBE I’ll tell you some of my super secret tricks that I use with a worm. Bye jerkheads! Scott Mulligan

O.K., so I decided to check out Deja News to see what our spammer has been up to elsewhere, and here’s what I found.  (see below) Of the newsgroups listed, I looked at his articles in about 5 of them and they were all stupid flames, some even word for word just like some of his tripe posted here.  He’s not just an idiot troller, he’s lacking in creativity.  Unless you can send 220 volts straight through his modem, he’s not worth responding to.   Confidence Newsgroup: 99%rec.woodworking91%alt.fishing65%rec.motorcycles.harley61%rec.gardens47%r ec.martial-arts47% rec.outdoors.fishing.bass39%rec.outdoors.fishing39%soc.singles28%rec.motorc ycles.racing21% microsoft.public.excel.programming21%rec.arts.startrek.current21%soc.bi13%c omp.lang.java.tech10% alt.abuse.recovery10%alt.beer10%rec.folk-dancing Steve Thomas If you don’t get this, let me know. (Remove _ from "reply to" address)

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I do not think that using lures is fair to the fish. Lures are not part of their natural environment you sandheads. It would be as if someone was dragging a stack of $100 bills on the ground. Live bait is the only fair way to catch fish. Everything else is just a crutch for poor fishing technique. If any of you clowns want to discuss this, email me and MAYBE I’ll tell you some of my super secret tricks that I use with a worm. Bye jerkheads! Scott Mulligan

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I do not think that using lures is fair to the fish. Lures are not part of their natural environment you sandheads. It would be as if someone was dragging a stack of $100 bills on the ground. Live bait is the only fair way to catch fish. Everything else is just a crutch for poor fishing technique. If any of you clowns want to discuss this, email me and MAYBE I’ll tell you some of my super secret tricks that I use with a worm. Bye jerkheads! Scott Mulligan

Hey spamhead…Troll-off Bubba B

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Question:

Does anyone know if Heenan reservouir in Alpine County, CA going to be open this year for fishing? Mac — Earl ‘Mac’ McReynolds                            Clanranald of Lochaber Sacramento, CA                                    "MY HOPE IS CONSTANT

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McReynolds) writes: Does anyone know if Heenan reservouir in Alpine County, CA going to be open this year for fishing? Mac — Earl ‘Mac’ McReynolds                            Clanranald of Lochaber Sacramento, CA                                "MY HOPE IS CONSTANT

Mac-     Don’t know for sure, but I read (In the California Fly Fisher Mag) that there were about 2000 fish left after the kill off(?!) after about 24000 before the kill off. Is it worth it at that point?

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Heenan is dear to our club, The High Sierra Flycasters — but we don’t have any particularly good knowledge of what happens this fall.  The fact that some fish survived last fall’s die-off is enough for now.  Our club volunteered to man the checking station last year and I was in the barrel the weekend of the die-off.  It looked bad and frankly I was willing to accept that all fish were dead.    But both the CAL and NV departments got eggs this year.  I think the 2,000 fish referred to were the number from which eggs were taken — but am not sure. To compound the problem, the lake went over the top this year and dumped hundreds of fish into Monitor Creek, an intermittant stream.  The CAL Dept. salvaged many and stocked them in other streams.  Some of our "sportsmen" also had a ball while they were in Monitor. There is some good news.  As part of the purchase of the Slash Bar H ranch in Carson Valley, hopefully by Douglas County, there’s an opportunity for the State of California to purchase 3,000 acre feet of water rights for Heenan and the State has already issued a letter of intent to do so — I think for about 7 million.  Up to now, California has owned the lake bed but not the water., Back to whether Heenan will open.  Ask CF&G but the rumour we hear is that it will not open and my guess is that if an opening is proposed our club will object. Hope this helps.  Incidentally, does anybody have email addresses for CAL Dept. of F&G.  It would be nice to get the answer from the Horse’s mouth – – or other parts of its anatomy, for that matter. Regards to all Dick Hubbard

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McReynolds) writes: Does anyone know if Heenan reservouir in Alpine County, CA going to be open this year for fishing? Mac-    Don’t know for sure, but I read (In the California Fly Fisher Mag) that there were about 2000 fish left after the kill off(?!) after about 24000 before the kill off. Is it worth it at that point?

That would be about one fish per angler on a Saturday… The definitive word on Heenan’s status would probably come from Judy Warren who you can reach at the Alpine Co. Chamber of Commerce.  She’s probably done more to keep this thing going than anyone, including snowmobiling up to the lake during the winter to auger holes in the ice.  I think they moved some of the Lahontans from Heenan into other lakes in the area to make sure they survived.  Keep hunting… Ross  

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Bob. From a post I see you mentioned the California Fly Fisher Magazine, can you tell me about this mag? Who can I contact, etc. Thanks loads Michae

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Still don’t know for sure whether Heenan will open this fall but got word from Judy Warren that the Department does plan to open it is year.  I have a call in to judy asking he to advice us — High Sierra Flycasters —  on what position we should take on this.  We’ll consider her recommendations on the 16th.  I’ll post the outcome. Dick Hubbard

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Question:

Last year was my first ordering from the Bass Pond, and I have sung their praises in this forum along with several of you out there.  I’m wondering if we have to order a new catalog each year or do they mail out new catalogs to people on their mailing list?  When is the new catalog due to be out? Paul DiConza NY Capital District Angler

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Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly Path:

legba.synergy.net!nic.scruz.net!hilbert.dnai.com!redstone.interpath.net!new s.sprintlink.net!h owland.reston.ans.net!gatech!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!ub!newserve!rebecca!ne ws.crd.ge.co m!k1b2-31.crd.ge.com!user – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Followup-To: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly Nntp-Posting-Host: k1b2-31.crd.ge.com Organization: GE Corporate Research & Development Lines: 9 Last year was my first ordering from the Bass Pond, and I have sung their praises in this forum along with several of you out there.  I’m wondering if we have to order a new catalog each year or do they mail out new catalogs to people on their mailing list?  When is the new catalog due to be out? Paul DiConza NY Capital District Angler

Paul, I received my catolog last Tuesday. Great cover! Talked to Doug earlier in the week and he said that they were all mailed of and now is up to the PO. From the Float Tube of Elmer Meiler Somewhere on the Pond of OZ

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Where do you order Bass Pond? Thanks. Dan Harris

Call 1-800-327-5014 "I am haunted by waters." -Norman Maclean-

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Question:

The fish are way easy to catch, and there’s a helluva lot more in the game than in the river.  I delude myself into thinking I’m honing my skills for my next visit to the McCloud.

Ditto.  I had more hookups while playing the game for 3 minutes than I’ve had on my previous 3-4 days on the McCloud.  Well, for $50, you don’t want to be skunked! Frank Holminski’s (sp?) response was that this game reflects the seasonal hatches and conditions you’ll encounter on this great river.  So, the buy the game and you shouldn’t have any zero-fish days — although I heard nothing about a money-back guarantee! I must admit, at the San Mateo show last weekend, whenever someone got a hookup, and you’d hear the ol’ reel scream through the PC speakers, that attracted more bystanders, as well as getting your adrenaline going!   For us Mac users, Frank says a Mac version may be developed later if they can get funding…my God, is not even flyfishing exempt from "vaporware"? Bill Uyeki

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Yeah, got sucked into it myself.  In fact, my buddy bought me a copy.  I don’t find it a problem to run it outside of windows.  Alt+M to lose the music.  Can’t wait for new fishing holes, and maybe some different tunes. Chatted the whole thing up with Frank H. while I was there.  Cool game. The fish are way easy to catch, and there’s a helluva lot more in the game than in the river.  I delude myself into thinking I’m honing my skills for my next visit to the McCloud.

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Many people think the Fly Fishing the McCloud River Game is CD ROM when they see it demonstrated. It is not but to get the great scans and animation that truly give the feel for dead driting an Adams or nymphing with a PT,  the game’s program uses approx 550 K of conventional memory while running.  This requires a memory mgt solution such as memmaker. The program is only 2.7 meg.  The game was the show stopper at the San Mateo ISO this past week, just ask Lefty DH

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Does anyone have any experience or comments about  this product?

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p because you need a config.sys with virtually nothing else configured for the program to run.  Once going, is challenging and fun.  Without sound, is hard to judge when fish are running.  Good luck.

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