Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey All, I’ve finally taken the plunge and decided to Build my first fly rod.I’ve ordered a St.Croix Avid nine foot seven weight.I figured I’d go with a kit for my first one so that at least all the components would match and I didn’t want to spend too much money in case I  f**k it up.This rod will fill nicely a gap in my rod collection.I like flyfishing for largemouths and my nine weight seems like overkill and my six weight not enough.I’m not buying any fancy tools (yet),I’m going to be doing it the old way using a heavy book for tension and turning the rod every few minutes while I watch t.v..I’d appreciate any tips on what usually goes wrong for first time rod builders. regards,Shawn

Several points to ponder: Get Garcia’s book on graphite rodbuilding. tons of good info there, especially if you’ll be turning the rod by hand. also: Instead of 5 minute epoxy for the reel seat, etc, go for something with a slightly longer cure time. I found some 15′ stuff that worked well, and was even stronger. makes you a bit less nervous about getting everything the way you want it in 5′ as well. Keep redoing the wraps until they’re just the way you want them. Wrap the winding check last; it’s the most visible wrap when you’re fishing, and by saving it for the end, you’ll have all that practice beforehand. Take one last look at the wraps and the guide alignment before you mix the rod finish. Once the epoxy goes on the rod, there’s no turning back. Use syringes to measure the epoxy and hardener, and use only syringes made/sold expressly for rodbuilding. Medical syringes, while cheap and abundant, have nothing to offer the rodbuilder but misery and regret. You *will* get bubbles in the finished wraps. Steam from a cup of hot water will make them go away. I’ve hand-turned all my rods and gotten nice results. Got nothing against the automatic turners, just don’t have one. Follow Garcia’s suggestions for turning intervals and you should be fine. I strongly suggest that you use an oven timer or something similar to remind you to get up and turn the rod, especially near the end, when the intervals have stretched to 30-60′. Finally, my overall advice is to be patient, and do a quality job. Your care (or haste) in building it will be evident for many years. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyoming

Response:

A * much * better solvent for epoxies is acetone. — Don Thompson Another Thompson Scion

Acetone must be used with great care near rods. It will eat into the blank and damage it irreparably. Alcohol is better for wiping off excess epoxy for this reason. TL MC

Response:

Thanks Guys,  I’m going crazy waiting for the damn thing to arrive in the mail.I was hoping to get it done this week while I’m still on vacation.I have a video and a pretty good book so I’m hoping things will go pretty smoothly, but no book or video can prepare you for my own personal style of screwups.My attitude is if I mess up I’ll just scrape it off and start over until I get it right. Regards,Shawn

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A * much * better solvent for epoxies is acetone. — Don Thompson Another Thompson Scion Acetone must be used with great care near rods. It will eat into the blank and damage it irreparably. Alcohol is better for wiping off excess epoxy for this reason. TL MC

Response:

Hey All, I’ve finally taken the plunge and decided to Build my first fly rod.I’ve ordered a St.Croix Avid nine foot seven weight.I figured I’d go with a kit for my first one so that at least all the components would match and I didn’t want to spend too much money in case I  f**k it up.This rod will fill nicely a gap in my rod collection.I like flyfishing for largemouths and my nine weight seems like overkill and my six weight not enough.I’m not buying any fancy tools (yet),I’m going to be doing it the old way using a heavy book for tension and turning the rod every few minutes while I watch t.v..I’d appreciate any tips on what usually goes wrong for first time rod builders. regards,Shawn

Response:

I’m not buying any fancy tools (yet),I’m going to be doing it the old way using a heavy book for tension and turning the rod every few minutes while I watch t.v..I’d appreciate any tips on what usually goes wrong for first time rod builders.

They watch some damn show that captures their interest and don’t turn the rod often enough. — Don Thompson Another Thompson Scion – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – regards,Shawn

Response:

I’d appreciate any tips on what usually goes wrong for first time rod builders. It starts with opening the package and goes down hill from there. The bright side is…you learn from every mistake. Have fun…it really ain’t that hard. jim

Response:

Its already been said –  Epoxy keeps flowing after you’r really sure it’s set up.  You may turn the thing for hours and be sure it set, so you put it up.  Next morning bumps where overnight the stuff has continued to flow.  If you can jury rig something to turn it do so ( I made one cheap using a dryer timing motor 6RPM) If you have never built or repaired a rod before I suggest going to Goodwill or Salvation Army and buying one.  Redo the guides and then give it back to them, it’s cheap practice. Good Luck

I’d appreciate any tips on what usually goes wrong for first time rod – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -builders. regards,Shawn

Response:

Hey All, I’ve finally taken the plunge and decided to Build my first fly rod.I’ve ordered a St.Croix Avid nine foot seven weight.I figured I’d go with a kit for my first one so that at least all the components would match and I didn’t want to spend too much money in case I  f**k it up.This rod will fill nicely a gap in my rod collection.I like flyfishing for largemouths and my nine weight seems like overkill and my six weight not enough.I’m not buying any fancy tools (yet),I’m going to be doing it the old way using a heavy book for tension and turning the rod every few minutes while I watch t.v..I’d appreciate any tips on what usually goes wrong for first time rod builders. regards,Shawn

Here’s a couple of items could save you some grief. Don’t use 5 minute epoxy to put on the reel seat or the handle. It can take longer than 5 minutes to get things properly situated. Use something with a longer pot life. Be real careful mixing up the wrap coating epoxy lest it set sticky. Use a minimum of 3 cc’s of each component when mixing. This will tend to minimize the error in measuring equal quantities. The stuff tends to be real sensitive to silicones which tend to be found in plastic measuring and mixing cups, stirring rods etc. There are these special syringes supplied by the coating maker for measuring the stuff which are guaranteed free of it. Don’t use any substitutes. Mix the stuff up in something made of glass like a shot glass and stir it with something like a stainless steel spoon handle. Denatured alcohol will work as a solvent to clean up afterward. good luck Mike — Michael McGuire                     Hewlett Packard Laboratories Phone: (650)-857-5491               Palo Alto, CA 94303-0971          

Response:

Be real careful mixing up the wrap coating epoxy lest it set sticky. Use a minimum of 3 cc’s of each component when mixing. This will tend to minimize the error in measuring equal quantities.

Good advice all around.  Equal parts is a good thing.  I’ve been able to use steel kitchen measuring spoons to mix up 1 teaspoon at a time w/o problems. Mu

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey All, I’ve finally taken the plunge and decided to Build my first fly rod.I’ve ordered a St.Croix Avid nine foot seven weight.I figured I’d go with a kit for my first one so that at least all the components would match and I didn’t want to spend too much money in case I  f**k it up.This rod will fill nicely a gap in my rod collection.I like flyfishing for largemouths and my nine weight seems like overkill and my six weight not enough.I’m not buying any fancy tools (yet),I’m going to be doing it the old way using a heavy book for tension and turning the rod every few minutes while I watch t.v..I’d appreciate any tips on what usually goes wrong for first time rod builders. regards,Shawn Here’s a couple of items could save you some grief. Don’t use 5 minute epoxy to put on the reel seat or the handle. It can take longer than 5 minutes to get things properly situated. Use something with a longer pot life. Be real careful mixing up the wrap coating epoxy lest it set sticky. Use a minimum of 3 cc’s of each component when mixing. This will tend to minimize the error in measuring equal quantities. The stuff tends to be real sensitive to silicones which tend to be found in plastic measuring and mixing cups, stirring rods etc. There are these special syringes supplied by the coating maker for measuring the stuff which are guaranteed free of it. Don’t use any substitutes. Mix the stuff up in something made of glass like a shot glass and stir it with something like a stainless steel spoon handle. Denatured alcohol will work as a solvent to clean up afterward.

A * much * better solvent for epoxies is acetone. — Don Thompson Another Thompson Scion – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – good luck Mike — Michael McGuire                     Hewlett Packard Laboratories Phone: (650)-857-5491               Palo Alto, CA 94303-0971

Response:

… Denatured alcohol will work as a solvent to clean up afterward. A * much * better solvent for epoxies is acetone. — Don Thompson

There is some opinion out there that acetone attacks rod finishes. Denatured alcohol has worked quite well for me for cleaning up epoxy that’s still in the fluid state, and it’s arguably less toxic for skin contact and vapor too. But acetone may be the right answer if the stuff has started to set up and you need to get it off. Mike — Michael McGuire                     Hewlett Packard Laboratories Phone: (650)-857-5491               Palo Alto, CA 94303-0971          

Response:

I’d rather throw a few spoons and shot glasses away than mess around with acetone in the  house.   Very flamable. Great stuff if your an arsonist because it leaves almost no residue. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A * much * better solvent for epoxies is acetone. — Don Thompson Another Thompson Scion good luck Mike — Michael McGuire                     Hewlett Packard Laboratories Phone: (650)-857-5491               Palo Alto, CA 94303-0971

Response:

I’d rather throw a few spoons and shot glasses away than mess around with acetone in the  house.   Very flamable. Great stuff if your an arsonist because it leaves almost no residue. A * much * better solvent for epoxies is acetone.

Or just go to a charity store and buy a "china" (i.e., not plastic) dinner plate and a few dinner/butter knives.  The plate "palette" will lhave room for several batches. TC, R

Response:

Actually not.It leaves a distinct burn pattern that is readily aparent to an accomplished fire investigator. — Don Thompson Another Thompson Scion

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’d rather throw a few spoons and shot glasses away than mess around with acetone in the  house.   Very flamable. Great stuff if your an arsonist because it leaves almost no residue. A * much * better solvent for epoxies is acetone. — Don Thompson Another Thompson Scion good luck Mike — Michael McGuire                     Hewlett Packard Laboratories Phone: (650)-857-5491               Palo Alto, CA 94303-0971

Response:

Question:

I usually go for the "bottle of beer" fly, and hope and pray the water clears up … cheers, edwin

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – which fly would you recommend straight after a heavy downpour of rain with the river still running brown for salmon in Scotland

Response:

Oh I would not hesitate to use steelhead flies for Atlantic salmon fishing, that was not what I meant.  I meant using things like Griffiths Gnats, beetles or ants or similar things, is a complete waste of time for Atlantic salmon on spawning runs, which is the only time they are fished for in Scotland.  Fishing for immature fish, ( parr etc ), which would take "naturals",  is not done at all. Worms are invariably more successful in any case.  A large bunch of lobworms on a large hook will generally take far more salmon than any fly, especially under flood conditions, when the river is high and brown, and even when low and clear for that matter.  In many places worming is allowed under certain ( usually flood ) conditions. Fly-fishing is not always the most successful method for any given fish, or set of conditions, in fact, barring salmonids generally, it rarely is. TL MC — "If you have tried everything you know, and nothing works, then perhaps it is time to accept that you don

Question:

: Stephen, : Good story – I’ve not yet trout fished in Victoria, but I was down Victoria : way over the last four or five days working at Warragul (very exciting). I : drove over the Goulburn River and King Parrot Creek between Seymour and Yea. : How far from there do you fish? Geeze I hope you didn’t get fried … King Parrot produced my second trout I used to get there regularly, but the Breakaway is a lot further upstream on the Goulburn, and this is where I spend most of my time up that way now.   By Seymour, the Goulburn becomes a bit too cloudy for fly-fishing but its still good at the King Parrot … and even if not the Parrot is/was a lot of fun. IMO Better fishing is to be had in the Kiewa, King, Ovens Rivers … but its a little far – even for a weekend. BTW: I look forward to seeing more about your Sunday mornings Steve — http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~steve/fush/

Response:

SNIPPED Geeze I hope you didn’t get fried …

I was at a three day outdoor truck show – we got fried (up to 38), frozen (down to 10), wet (pissed down) and wind blown (white caps in farm dams). Damn good fishing weather ! JK

Response:

: I was at a three day outdoor truck show – we got fried (up to 38), frozen : (down to 10), wet (pissed down) and wind blown (white caps in farm dams). : Damn good fishing weather ! *laugh* Pretty standard summer fair steve — http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~steve/fush/

Response:

Damn, it was 3 AM this morning, and there I was wide awake and full of anticipation.

Oh yes!  I know that feeling. I look forward to meeting them all again…’Sfunny how you remember the good, the poignant, the others just fade away in memory.

Having shoveled snow once again this morning, yours was a welcome story. Mu, in the northern hemisphere.

Response:

Stephen, Good story – I’ve not yet trout fished in Victoria, but I was down Victoria way over the last four or five days working at Warragul (very exciting). I drove over the Goulburn River and King Parrot Creek between Seymour and Yea. How far from there do you fish? Cheers JK

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Damn, it was 3 AM this morning, and there I was wide awake and full of anticipation.  Yes, I enjoy my fishing that much, I wake at ungodly hours wondering if its time to get going. Some days 3am would be right but not today, I’m doing an afternoon in the hills and evening rise on the meadows … silly brain.  As much as it can be frustrating I think I actually enjoy the sense of anticipation that is apparently triggered by the pre-trip rituals – cleaning the line, replenishing the boxes, cleaning specs and checking leaders. The time of year brings me to change water – a change due about now – these changes bring on nostalgia attacks replete with memories of past conquests and some characters. Simon and I met at the upper limits of an upstream stroll from the Breakaway Bridge on the Goulburn river.  The usual banter resulted in my showing Simon where I’d had a couple of fish and picking a nymph from his box, showing him where to cast it.  To sit back and watch him catch his first fish from the Goulburn after a "couple of years of tryin’" was by far the best thing about that day … by the grin on his face you’d reckon he had a five pounder … I haven’t seen him to talk to since, though I’ve seen him on the other bank while he watched a mate fish … This time last year I encountered Kurt at the Breakaway a couple of times. Kurt is what you’d describe as a character and, as with most characters, he tends to use or elicit colourful language so you may wish to skip the next paragraph or two. My first whiff of Kurt  was literally that – a waft of roll-your-own tobacco smoke carried on the breeze.   The grass along this section is over head high and my call bought no response … never mind I was still basking in the afterglow of having a good fish inhale my fly. Another whiff, a lot stronger this time, and there he was built like a drover’s dog, salt and pepper beard – moustache stained below the nostrils. Pointing to his fag end – "G’day, I’ve been smellin’ you for 10 minutes." "Yeah, I’m a smelly curt." Well with a comeback like that how could you not get on with the retired coot – a week at home with the missus, a week on the wallaby fishin’ – quite a life I’d say. The thing that was really memorable about Kurt was his language – "Effing curt" this or that … yet he never called me as much as a dopey bugger when I hung up in the greenery … he never cursed fish that got off – "Too effing tight/loose, Kurt", water "When will you learn to Effing read the water Kurt, Effwit!", trees or even other anglers who wandered to close. We shared the same backwaters – usually well away from each other sometimes together – He showed me a few things about those backwaters, how to fish them long where I prefer to fish them short.  He did have a pet hate, never ever under any circumstances should you even think of tying let alone use "one of those pheasant tails with the peacock thorax".  The last phrase dripped with such loathing I didn’t press him … perhaps this year. That was then, today is a different water, one where: I’ve showed a Scot the virtues of a Yellow Humpy, Spotted for John while he cast his lures, got skunked with Louis of Chile … One evening I met a bloke at the access – a bloke with a flyrod and a mobile phone – "Waiting for the surgeon to call …". His pallor should have tipped me that he wasn’t that well, of course it may have been a loved one but I doubt it … an offer to walk with him was rejected. He’d "stay near the car and fish the nearby pools- I just want to fish a bit."  He and the car were gone when I returned- I don’t remember the fishing that night, but I do remember him. I look forward to meeting them all again…’Sfunny how you remember the good, the poignant, the others just fade away in memory. steve — http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~steve/fush/

Response:

Damn, it was 3 AM this morning, and there I was wide awake and full of anticipation.  Yes, I enjoy my fishing that much, I wake at ungodly hours wondering if its time to get going. Some days 3am would be right but not today, I’m doing an afternoon in the hills and evening rise on the meadows … silly brain.  As much as it can be frustrating I think I actually enjoy the sense of anticipation that is apparently triggered by the pre-trip rituals – cleaning the line, replenishing the boxes, cleaning specs and checking leaders.   The time of year brings me to change water – a change due about now – these changes bring on nostalgia attacks replete with memories of past conquests and some characters. Simon and I met at the upper limits of an upstream stroll from the Breakaway Bridge on the Goulburn river.  The usual banter resulted in my showing Simon where I’d had a couple of fish and picking a nymph from his box, showing him where to cast it.  To sit back and watch him catch his first fish from the Goulburn after a "couple of years of tryin’" was by far the best thing about that day … by the grin on his face you’d reckon he had a five pounder … I haven’t seen him to talk to since, though I’ve seen him on the other bank while he watched a mate fish … This time last year I encountered Kurt at the Breakaway a couple of times. Kurt is what you’d describe as a character and, as with most characters, he tends to use or elicit colourful language so you may wish to skip the next paragraph or two. My first whiff of Kurt  was literally that – a waft of roll-your-own tobacco smoke carried on the breeze.   The grass along this section is over head high and my call bought no response … never mind I was still basking in the afterglow of having a good fish inhale my fly. Another whiff, a lot stronger this time, and there he was built like a drover’s dog, salt and pepper beard – moustache stained below the nostrils. Pointing to his fag end – "G’day, I’ve been smellin’ you for 10 minutes." "Yeah, I’m a smelly curt." Well with a comeback like that how could you not get on with the retired coot – a week at home with the missus, a week on the wallaby fishin’ – quite a life I’d say.   The thing that was really memorable about Kurt was his language – "Effing curt" this or that … yet he never called me as much as a dopey bugger when I hung up in the greenery … he never cursed fish that got off – "Too effing tight/loose, Kurt", water "When will you learn to Effing read the water Kurt, Effwit!", trees or even other anglers who wandered to close.   We shared the same backwaters – usually well away from each other sometimes together – He showed me a few things about those backwaters, how to fish them long where I prefer to fish them short.  He did have a pet hate, never ever under any circumstances should you even think of tying let alone use "one of those pheasant tails with the peacock thorax".  The last phrase dripped with such loathing I didn’t press him … perhaps this year. That was then, today is a different water, one where: I’ve showed a Scot the virtues of a Yellow Humpy, Spotted for John while he cast his lures, got skunked with Louis of Chile … One evening I met a bloke at the access – a bloke with a flyrod and a mobile phone – "Waiting for the surgeon to call …". His pallor should have tipped me that he wasn’t that well, of course it may have been a loved one but I doubt it … an offer to walk with him was rejected. He’d "stay near the car and fish the nearby pools- I just want to fish a bit."  He and the car were gone when I returned- I don’t remember the fishing that night, but I do remember him.   I look forward to meeting them all again…’Sfunny how you remember the good, the poignant, the others just fade away in memory. steve — http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~steve/fush/

Response:

Question:

Sounds like heaven to me.. I’ll join you in spirit, probably while casting big streamers for Dutch pike in lousy weather. Have fun, Herman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Was going to email this only to those that have expressed interest in Fall Ball but, what the hell, it’s slow around here and it may be of passing interest even if you have no intention of attending. These fishing get-togethers tend to defy organization, which is as it should be. Nobody wants to put up with too much organizing. Basically those in attendance show up at the Alarka Creek house sometime in the evening, partner up and pick streams for the next day. It’s not good to have too many folks on the same stream and everybody should get a chance to fish Hazel Creek but those things work themselves out. It would be nice to have one time during the week when everyone in attendance is at the same spot at the same time preferably to break bread together. I had thought of a dinner at the Fryemont Inn on Friday night but getting everybody together for dinner can be a problem. If the hatch starts coming off at 7:30 and you’re supposed to be at a dinner back in town at 8:00… well, you get the idea. We had some very late arrivals at the ‘Clave pig-pickin’ because some folks just didn’t want to leave the stream. So, how about I float this idea. Four miles up Noland Creek, where Mill Creek comes in, is the abandoned town of Solola Valley. The Park Service has picnic tables, an outhouse and a hitchin’ rack up there. I propose a picnic lunch sandwiched between a morning & afternoon of fishing Noland Creek. There’s 4 miles of good water both below and above Solola Valley and Mill Creek holds trout too. Should be enough water for everyone if we pair up & spread out. The only problem I could anticipate, besides the weather, is that some don’t want to hike in 4 miles to a picnic and then hike 4 miles out. The solution is horses. I talked to an outfitter yesterday that would be happy to accomodate us at $75 per horse for the full day. Meet him at the stable over at Deep Creek or at the bridge on the "Road to Nowhere" over Noland Creek. Comments ? (BTW, I heard an unsubstantiated rumor on a chat room last night that George was going to fly in with T-Bone and a plane full of Bastard Bamboo fly rods.) — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

        sweet jesus, surely you don’t mean "bryson city billy’s", home of the hot mustangs.  as i recall, their motto is, "grab your hat and ass, boys, and watch ‘is!"

Umm, you seem to be confusing the stable with the whorehouse. "Bryson City Billy’s", Home of the Hot Mustangs, is the whorehouse.         at all costs, avoid a black stallion called "diablo", and a meek looking bay named "sadie".  instant death.

Sadie was the one you were with when the vibrating bed went on the ooow, never mind. As I recall the story, Diablo was black, sure enough, but definitely NOT a stallion. More like 300 lbs. of the meanest whore in North Carolina carrying a torch for Pamlico Jim. Last I heard you two were no longer welcome at "Bryson City Billy’s" because of that incident with the preacher, the vibrator and the hot water heater blowing up. They may have forgotten about it by now, though. — Ken Fortenberry- Historian and friend of the geriatric set

Response:

They have a new one called "Cowboy Killer" in from Nevada I understand. DaveS

Response:

Ken Fortenberry writes:

(plans snipped) <<Meet him at the stable over at Deep Creek or at the bridge on the "Road to Nowhere" over Noland Creek. Wonderful idea, Ken.  I could do the 4 miles on foot, but it would take me awhile, and Jo would surely chew me out if she found out.  But horses?  I like the way you think.  Only trouble is, I haven’t been on one since my early 20s.  These *are* docile animals, right? Dave L.

Response:

…  But horses?  I like the way you think.  Only trouble is, I haven’t been on one since my early 20s.  These *are* docile animals, right?

Early 20’s would be what, 2-3 years ago ? We’ll have the wranglers trot out old swayback Sadie for you Dave, gentle as a lamb and rides like you’re in a big fluffy recliner. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Ken F: <<Early 20’s would be what, 2-3 years ago ? We’ll have the wranglers trot out old swayback Sadie for you Dave, gentle as a lamb and rides like you’re in a big fluffy recliner. You sweet talkin’ sumbitch!  <g  I’ll get out the yeller pages and take a lesson or two afore I get there.  Sounds good to me. Dave LaCourse

Response:

The solution is horses. I talked to an outfitter yesterday that would be happy to accomodate us at $75 per horse for the full day. Meet him at the stable over at Deep Creek or at the bridge on the "Road to Nowhere" over Noland Creek.

        sweet jesus, surely you don’t mean "bryson city billy’s", home of the hot mustangs.  as i recall, their motto is, "grab your hat and ass, boys, and watch ‘is!"         at all costs, avoid a black stallion called "diablo", and a meek looking bay named "sadie".  instant death.         hope you guys make it. wayno the concerned – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Comments ? (BTW, I heard an unsubstantiated rumor on a chat room last night that George was going to fly in with T-Bone and a plane full of Bastard Bamboo fly rods.) — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Was going to email this only to those that have expressed interest in Fall Ball but, what the hell, it’s slow around here and it may be of passing interest even if you have no intention of attending. These fishing get-togethers tend to defy organization, which is as it should be. Nobody wants to put up with too much organizing. Basically those in attendance show up at the Alarka Creek house sometime in the evening, partner up and pick streams for the next day. It’s not good to have too many folks on the same stream and everybody should get a chance to fish Hazel Creek but those things work themselves out. It would be nice to have one time during the week when everyone in attendance is at the same spot at the same time preferably to break bread together. I had thought of a dinner at the Fryemont Inn on Friday night but getting everybody together for dinner can be a problem. If the hatch starts coming off at 7:30 and you’re supposed to be at a dinner back in town at 8:00… well, you get the idea. We had some very late arrivals at the ‘Clave pig-pickin’ because some folks just didn’t want to leave the stream. So, how about I float this idea. Four miles up Noland Creek, where Mill Creek comes in, is the abandoned town of Solola Valley. The Park Service has picnic tables, an outhouse and a hitchin’ rack up there. I propose a picnic lunch sandwiched between a morning & afternoon of fishing Noland Creek. There’s 4 miles of good water both below and above Solola Valley and Mill Creek holds trout too. Should be enough water for everyone if we pair up & spread out. The only problem I could anticipate, besides the weather, is that some don’t want to hike in 4 miles to a picnic and then hike 4 miles out. The solution is horses. I talked to an outfitter yesterday that would be happy to accomodate us at $75 per horse for the full day. Meet him at the stable over at Deep Creek or at the bridge on the "Road to Nowhere" over Noland Creek. Comments ? (BTW, I heard an unsubstantiated rumor on a chat room last night that George was going to fly in with T-Bone and a plane full of Bastard Bamboo fly rods.) — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Question:

This is a good idea.  We need an eight lined ‘Angler’s Toast’.  Maybe we need three or four of them? Mike Connor, you have been challenged to supply the first entry. Possibly, we should have an "Angler’s Toast Contest?"  for the Conclave?! shush!  quiet everyone.  There is a click of glasses and Wayne Harrison stands up to give a toast – "- ah?

Response:

Georg G: <<….shush!  quiet everyone.  There is a click of glasses and Wayne Harrison stands up to give a toast – "- ah? "Row tiddly row Defecate or bust Never let your testes Dangle in the dust." Hey, it worked in Japan 40+ years ago! Dave L.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Georg G: <<….shush!  quiet everyone.  There is a click of glasses and Wayne Harrison stands up to give a toast – "- ah? "Row tiddly row Defecate or bust Never let your testes Dangle in the dust." Hey, it worked in Japan 40+ years ago! Dave L.

— Mr. G. All Writings

Question:

Does anyone out there know of any tide charts for the Boca Paila- Ascension Bay-Espiritu Santo Bay area?  Any idea what the correction factors are for the backcountry areas when you try to use a standard tide chart/program?  Any other useful info would be appreciated too. Please send private e-mail to: Thanks Jeff

Response:

Jeff, if you will email me, I will send you the web address of an NOAA site that gives current water temperatures, sea height, wind, etc from bouys in Port Aransas and offshore in the Gulf. To date, I have not found a tide web site, but this comes close and is useful. I just don’t have the address on me at the moment.

Response:

Could you please send me the address of the Yucatan Tide Charts. Just back from Ascension Bay and am returning next year. Thanks. Jack

Response:

Does anyone out there know of any tide charts for the Boca Paila- Ascension Bay-Espiritu Santo Bay area?  Any idea what the correction factors are for the backcountry areas when you try to use a standard tide chart/program?  Any other useful info would be appreciated too. Please send private e-mail to: Thanks Jeff

Jeff, I would call Frontier Travel, 800/245-1950 and ask for Bill Gering.  They are the booking agent for Boca Paila Lodge and Casa Blanca Lodge ( Ascension Bay ) and Bill is their expert on the Yucatan area. I spent nine days in November this last fall and fished the whole area through different four lodges.  If you need any fishing info you can call us at 800/4000FLY. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA

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Question:

I’ve heard that someone makes a CD-ROM on fly tying.  If you have info on who make this, please respond ASAP.  Need as going away gift. — Kelly Mills http://www.vni.net/~hitech/kmills.htm

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I’ve heard that someone makes a CD-ROM on fly tying.  If you have info
on who make this, please respond ASAP.  Need as going away gift.
–
Kelly Mills

http://www.vni.net/~hitech/kmills.htm

The current Fly Fisherman has an ad for the CD you want, with the phone number to order it. I also saw this CD at a fly shop in Indianapolis so it is probably being stocked in many flyshops now. The Virtual Flyfisher web site has a review of it in this month’s online magazine.

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Kelly,    I have just received a copy of ”Tying Flies for Trout” by Elkwing Productions, P.O. Box 789, Waitsfield, VT 05673.    In my first look through it, I was somewhat impressed. It offers quite a variety of fly recipes, and includes six videos that take the tyer through the entire process for tying a particular fly.    It works on Macs and PCs and the production values are pretty good, although there are a problem or two (it was hard to hear the commentator during the tying videos). But the photos are good and you can blow them up quite large to get a good look at them.    Sorry I don’t have a phone number, but the above info might help you get started. All the rest of the info is at the office.    By the way, I am the outdoor editor for the Great Falls Tribune, in Great Falls, MT. just to let you know this was an objective opinion and not an employee shilling their product.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Kelly,   I have just received a copy of ”Tying Flies for Trout” by Elkwing Productions, P.O. Box 789, Waitsfield, VT 05673.   In my first look through it, I was somewhat impressed. It offers quite a variety of fly recipes, and includes six videos that take the tyer through the entire process for tying a particular fly.   It works on Macs and PCs and the production values are pretty good, although there are a problem or two (it was hard to hear the commentator during the tying videos). But the photos are good and you can blow them up quite large to get a good look at them.   Sorry I don’t have a phone number, but the above info might help you get started. All the rest of the info is at the office.   By the way, I am the outdoor editor for the Great Falls Tribune, in Great Falls, MT. just to let you know this was an objective opinion and not an employee shilling their product.

I’ve been looking for the same thing.  The phone number to Waitsfield "Learn to Tie Flies on CD"  is 800 411-3984.  There is a small add on page 76 in January/February issue of FlyRod&Reel. Dennis DiAugustine

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Hi Kelly, A good fly tying CD Rom is Tying Flies for TROUT by Dick Stewart & Farrow Allen.  It uses video as well as still photography to bring a wide array of flies to you. It my very well be the same CD as talked about by others on this thread. Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (catalog avail)

Response:

I’ve heard that someone makes a CD-ROM on fly tying.  If you have info
on who make this, please respond ASAP.  Need as going away gift.
–
Kelly Mills

        We carry the Dick Stewart & Farrow Allen CD "Tying Flies for Trout" which has fly tying video clips, patterns, instruction for tying the patterns, reference materials concerning fly tying and the like. The price is $49.95 + shipping.         To order call us (HunterBanks Co., the southeast’s premier fly shop) at 800-227-6732.

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Hello! Yes, CD ROM with databse of flies is manufactured by: Fine Line Classic Collection address: Langoddveien 49 N-1335 Snaroya Norway Phone: 47 66849622 Fax: 47 67532840 They have no mail address. Product name: FlyLab for Windows The software is in two versions. FlyLab ver. 1.2 Light on discettes contains 300 patters. Price NOK 495,- FlyLab ver. 1.2 Full on discettes or CD Rom contains 900 patterns. Pris NOK 995,- Prices ex. mailing costs. Hardware spec: Minimum 386 /4mb RAM 256 color 36 Mb HD Windows 3.1 Rec. Hw. 486 /8 Mb RAM 32/64 color 48 Mb Hd Windows 3.11 The databse gives possibilities to add privat patterns as well as making notes on the original. If you have any questions, do not hesitate to mail me. Best Regards Erik R=F8hne

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I’ve heard that someone makes a CD-ROM on fly tying.  If you have info on who make this, please respond ASAP.  Need as going away gift. The current Fly Fisherman has an ad for the CD you want, with the phone number to order it. I also saw this CD at a fly shop in Indianapolis so it is probably being stocked in many flyshops now. The Virtual Flyshop web site has a review of it in this month’s online magazine.

Try http://www.flyshop.com/Mall/Elkwing "Tying Flies for Trout" by Farrow and Allen. — Mike Tucker-  The Virtual Flyshop Web: http://www.flyshop.com Phone: 970/225-6445

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Question:

A couple of years ago a group of us fished Boca Grande and we used a variety of guides.  By far the best one was Chris Klingel – I still have his card and the number is (813) 964-2165.  Last year I saw him on one of the flyfishing shows as the guide so he’s probably well sought after. Enjoy, it’s great fishing. David  

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Question:

Aren’t they the ones that eat their own young?

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Not only will they eat their young they will also take a #28 Adams on 8X …. give it a try…. Thats how I get over cabin fever.  by the way make sure to use barbless hooks, guppies don’t seem to recover well from

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Well, I was down in Louisianna and stopped off on the side of the road at a creek.  Little minnows were swimming around on the surface.  I had some #14 hooks and some little pieces of worm.  The water was about 6 feet down from where my gf and I were standing.  We let our lines down and the minnows would grab the worm, not able to get the hook in their mouth.   They would hold onto it just enough that you could sling them out of the water.  We flicked them high enough that they went flying in the air and we would catch them in our hands.  We kept them in a bucket for some catfishing that night.  They did not seem to be harmed too much by their sudden flights into the air.  Guess its another way to catch fish.

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Question:

Recent posts on this and other locations have brought out some of the worst of those in our sport who have senselessly criticised equipment of particular brands and the anglers who use whatever happens to be on the "hit list." Two recent posts from another location provide a nice response, and I repeat them here: #1 Never feel that you have to apologize to anyone for the equipment you use. Most of the howlers are cheapskates who wouldn’t know a good rod if someone beat them over the head with it anyway, and they certainly don’t recognize that a good expensive rod is an investment in a lifetime (with reasonable care) of pleasure on the stream." #2 "If some people don’t like Orvis–so what? Think for yourself and do your own thing.  Owning Orvis products has about as much to do with being a yuppie as owning Scott or Winston.  Besides, who the hell really cares if someone *does* label you or me or Joe Blow a yuppie. Small-minded people need to fixate on simple-minded, non-issues–just look at our gov’mint!" Lyman Hughes                                               Dallas, TX                                               Ennis, MT

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Recent posts on this and other locations have brought out some of the worst of those in our sport who have senselessly criticised equipment of particular brands and the anglers who use whatever happens to be on the "hit list." Two recent posts from another location provide a nice response, and I repeat them here: #1 Never feel that you have to apologize to anyone for the equipment you use. Most of the howlers are cheapskates who wouldn’t know

a good rod if someone beat them over the head with it anyway, and they certainly don’t recognize that a good expensive rod is an investment in a lifetime (with reasonable care) of pleasure on the stream." #2 "If some people don’t like Orvis–so what? Think for yourself and do your own thing.  Owning Orvis products has about as much to do with being a yuppie as owning Scott or Winston.  Besides, who the hell really cares if someone*does* label you or me or Joe Blow a yuppie. Small-minded people

need to fixate on simple-minded, non-issues–just look at our gov’mint!" Bravo! JL 8-Wt Editor

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To me, it does not matter whether you use an Orvis rod or a Diawa, all that really matters is whether you can catch "and release" fish!  Too many people get too esoteric about having the best equipment but why do you have to spend your all your money on equipment because Lefty Kreh has endorsed it?  I have some expensive equipment and I have cheap equipment and to tell you the truth, sometimes I can’t tell the difference. Remember, "A bad day of fishing is still better than a good day at work!" Tight Lines! Mark

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Re: whether you own an Orvis, etc…I’d be willing to bet a day’s pay that those "toy snobs" can’t cast their expensive trinkets worth a damned. And I bet they don’t fish more than 1 or 2 times a year, then only in perfectly calm, clear days.       In my past days as a professional photographer, I would listen to the same B.S. concerning cameras. You know, it’s not What you use, but HOW you use it that counts!    A cheap rod and cheap line fished properly will catch just as  many fish as the expensive stuff. It is technique and presentation that counts. The fish don’t give a damned if they are caught on a Winston or a Sears "special!"

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Most people use the best equipment they can afford, since it is almost always more enjoyable to use than something cheaper.  Why don’t most serious flyfishers by cheap rods and/or lines?  There is a difference, and you know it, so why be so negative? BTW, what kind of rod and line do you use, and what kind of camera did you use professionally? — Jim Benenson                 Los Alamos, New Mexico, USA "The commonplace is only the self-constructed wall that separates us from the marvelous"  Tom Brown, Jr.

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Begin Message—– snipped The fish don’t give a damned if they are caught on a Winston or a Sears "special!" snipped End Message ——- As I look through all of my spring fishing catalogs (Bean, Dan Bailey, Cabelas, Bass Pro, etc.)  I have to ask myself why a bait casting rod made out of IM6 graphite or any other new generation graphites costs 50% less than a fly rod made out of the same material.  I do not believe that the manufacturting processes are that disimilar. Some people might argue something about mandrels and tapers (I always thought that a mandrel was a baboon like primate).  But I really think that the prices are  high for fly rods simply because the market can bear it. BTW, Bass Pro has a good deal on some IM6 rods with a SA 2L reel for $179.00. I priced the reel elsewhere at $125.00. So its like getting an IM6 rod for $54.00.  I bought one last year when the combo sold for $169.00 and the rod is pretty nice casting (minor cosmetic imperfections in the varnishing and wrapping) My $0.02 Daern C. Valentine

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Begin Message—– snipped The fish don’t give a damned if they are caught on a Winston or a Sears "special!" snipped End Message ——- As I look through all of my spring fishing catalogs (Bean, Dan Bailey, Cabelas, Bass Pro, etc.)  I have to ask myself why a bait casting rod made out of IM6 graphite or any other new generation graphites costs 50% less than a fly rod made out of the same material.  I do not believe that the manufacturting processes are that disimilar. Some people might argue something about mandrels and tapers (I always thought that a mandrel was a baboon like primate).  But I really think that the prices are  high for fly rods simply because the market can bear it.

An experienced and honest angler will have to admit that a high-end rod, e.g., Scott, Sage, Winston, etc., just casts and "feels" better than an economy rod, e.g., Cabela’s, St. Croix, etc.  The latter rods can be great bargains, and there is no doubt that an accomplished fisher with a Cortland in hand will do better than a novice casting a T&T.  Clearly, technique is MUCH more important than equipment.  However, once you’ve reached a certain level of casting skill, you appreciate a well-made rod and it makes for a better fishing experience.  In addition, high-end rods just look nicer: There is more attention to design and they are finished better (as you point out, the rod you bought had "minor cosmetic imperfections").  For some people, like myself, this matters; for others, it may be totally irrelevant. There is no doubt that the markup on high-end rods is high.  But you have to consider that the production of many of these rods is extremely labor intensive.  Consider Scott, for example.  Scott matches tip sections to butt sections by hand, testing each butt with a variety of tips until the appropriate and desired  taper and flex pattern is achieved.  This is done for each rod individually. Many high-end rod companies (e.g., Sage) also put a lot of money into R&D trying to figure out what lengths, tapers, diameters, scrims, etc., are appropriate for various types of graphite and various line weights. All that said, it is certainly true that these rod companies know their market and are not shy about pricing their products. Comparing fly rods to spinning rods is unfair.  Don’t think that any two blanks made from IM6 (which, BTW, is second generation graphite and is about 5-6 years old now) are of equivalent quality and should be priced the same.  The quality of a spinning rod is much less important to casting than is the quality of a fly rod, and rod makers know this.  You can get away with many more imperfections in the blank on a spinning rod.  In addition, they are shorter.  Cost goes up nonlinearly with length because it is just a lot harder to make a straight 9 ft. blank that tapers from say, 1 cm to 2 mm, than to make an almost straight 7 ft. blank that tapers from 2 cm (or more on some of Cabela’s rods, e.g.) to 2 mm.  Put it this way:  You could do pretty well spin casting with your reel tied to a broom handle, but unless you are Lefty Kreh, you’d have a hell of a time getting more than a few feet of line out fly casting with such a rig. Finally, I’ll gladly take up "FlyFish887" on his casting bet for a day’s pay:  Just name the time and the place . . . TPM

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writes: Re: whether you own an Orvis, etc…I’d be willing to bet a day’s pay that those "toy snobs" can’t cast their expensive trinkets worth a damned. And I bet they don’t fish more than 1 or 2 times a year, then only in perfectly calm, clear days.  In my past days as a professional photographer, I would listen to the same B.S. concerning cameras. You know, it’s not What you use, but HOW you use it that counts!    A cheap rod and cheap line fished properly will catch just as  many fish as the expensive stuff. It is technique and presentation that counts. The fish don’t give a damned if they are caught on a Winston or a Sears "special!"

I’ll take that bet. What do you consider "worth a damned"?  Distance?   Accuracy? I have a 9ft 7wt I can cast a standard flyline so far the backing is hanging out of the tiptop. Or how about picking up a bass bug at about 45 feet and with one false cast hit within 12 inches of a target at 65 feet. In my present days as a professional photo lab technician I also know that any _professional_ photographer is going to use top of the line equipment because it is dependable, rugged and has quality optics. People use Canons, Nikons, Hasselbads, not Ricoh, Pentax and Mamiya-Sekor.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Comparing fly rods to spinning rods is unfair.  Don’t think that any two blanks made from IM6 (which, BTW, is second generation graphite and is about 5-6 years old now) are of equivalent quality and should be priced the same.  The quality of a spinning rod is much less important to casting than is the quality of a fly rod, and rod makers know this.  You can get away with many more imperfections in the blank on a spinning rod.   This is all very nice but it’s not reflected in reality.  Take a close look   at blank vs finished rod prices in the Loomis catalogs, for instance, and   what comes through is that the majority of the differences in price between   spinning/casting and fly rods is in the rods and not the blanks themselves.     For example, look at several 9′ blanks and what happens to the final price   (these are GLoomis two-piece IMX rods):    Length      "Rating"    Blank price   Finished rod price      9′      6-10 lb line     $207            $330      9′      8-12 lb line     $214            $335      9′        6 weight       $171            $375      9′        7 weight       $182            $380   I think that the original poster was correct: there is a substantial premium   inherent in fly rod prices and it is not clear that there is a materials or   labor cost that warrants it.

These are interesting and useful data, but they cut both ways.  Your argument assumes that the blank prices are accurate reflections of production costs but that the finished rod prices are not.  If we assume that all costs reflect production costs plus a constant percentage markup (constant across rod types), the prices above indicate that spinning rods cost more to make (for a given length) but that fly rods cost more to finish.  If you are willing to question the increment from blank to finished rod for fly rods, why not also question the prices on blanks themselves.  Perhaps the markup is higher for spinning blanks than for fly rod blanks.  The real problem is that no one outside the company really knows what the production costs are and how items are priced for a given market. I’ll stick with my previous argument that the quality of the blank is much less important to spin fishing than to fly fishing, and hence, that comparing prices between spinning rods and fly rods is unfair.  However, I also strongly suspect that we fly fishers are not getting any bargains on premium rods. TPM

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