Question:

I don’t know what on earth you’re talking about. …  From an old argument where you just discounted a dictionary definition (several of them, in fact) …

Still don’t know what on earth you’re talking about. Could it be that you’ve just got a bug up your ass ? — Ken Fortenberry- rhetorical question Willi, I know you’ve got a                   high horse up your ass.

Response:

      Still don’t know what on earth you’re talking about.     Could it be that you’ve just got a bug up your ass ?     Ken Fortenberry- rhetorical question Willi, I know you’ve got a      high horse up your ass. better be careful…… you’re losing control….. your fascination with other mens’ asses is starting to roll….. Willi

Response:

  <pedantic diatribe which boils down to a misunderstanding of the word ethics To wit: (from Merriam-Webster) the principles of conduct governing an individual or a group — Ken Fortenberry

Much as I would like to contest your in depth analysis, I have to admit I’ve always been a sucker for rigorous scholarship and meticulous research.  Oh sure, there’s always a bit of lingering resentment…..I mean, shit, a guy spends a lifetime reading books and thinking about these things (sometimes for whole minutes at a time!), only to be trumped by an obscure and unlooked for datum whose very existence no one could have foreseen or predicted, but still, one simply has to admire the insouciant ease of the dismissal.  But then, I guess it’s easy when you’ve got a distillation of the world’s wisdom at your fingertips in a single volume.      :( Wolfgang gotta get me one’a them webster thingys one’s these days.

Response:

Cat fight!

Response:

  Now *that’s* the Ken we know and love. — TL, Tim     ain’t it the truth, timj !  :) yfitons wayno

You bad, bad dry fly fisherman.  You KNOWWW he’s going to rise to THAT fly Wayne. Shame on you. Mr.G.

Response:

Cat fight!

Heh, heh, heh. Hey Ken!  Fresh meat!      :) Wolfgang

Response:

Bozeman, Montana, November 18, 2002:  For immediate release. The Federation of Flyfishers announced today the publication of its Code of Angling Ethics.  FFF is an international organization whose mission is to lead activities that enhance and support the fly fishing experience for all anglers who fish with the artificial fly. FFF Treasurer Gary Grant, who spearheaded the effort to develop the Code of Angling Ethics, said that FFF decided to examine this issue about two years ago.  "Articles and discussions about ethical behavior by anglers have surfaced from time to time, and it was time to see if a common set of guidelines with unifying themes could be developed." The FFF Code expresses the belief that ethical behavior is a key component of the angling experience, and that anglers must behave ethically towards each other, non-anglers, and the environment.  Grant concluded:  "Ethical angling behavior is not a destination for one to boost about reaching.  Rather, it is a continuous journey that will improve the overall angling experience." To learn more about the Federation of Fly Fishers, view the FFF website at: www.fedflyfishers.org< or contact FFF Executive Director Jim Rainey at 406-585-7592.

Response:

Bozeman, Montana, November 18, 2002:  For immediate release. The Federation of Flyfishers announced today the publication of its Code of Angling Ethics.

<snip Phew! For a minute there I thought they were going to impose ethical standards on roff. It’s too bad that the only people who will read this code of ethics are people who probably already adhere to stronger standards. — TL, Tim

Response:

Bozeman, Montana, November 18, 2002:  For immediate release. The Federation of Flyfishers announced today the publication of its Code of Angling Ethics.

Is there anything in there about leaving empty worm containers streamside?

Response:

Phew! For a minute there I thought they were going to impose ethical standards on roff.

Yeah, right after they bring Cary Grant back to life.  :-) Joe F.

Response:

It’s too bad that the only people who will read this code of ethics are people who probably already adhere to stronger standards.

Or to put it another way, the problem with codes of ethics is that they are inherently unethical.  They are either coercive or they are meaningless. Wolfgang

Response:

The Federation of Flyfishers announced today the publication of its Code of Angling Ethics.

rw asks: Is there anything in there about leaving empty worm containers streamside?

The ethical angler always leaves a worm or two for the next guy. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyoming

Response:

It’s too bad that the only people who will read this code of ethics are people who probably already adhere to stronger standards. Or to put it another way, the problem with codes of ethics is that they are inherently unethical.  They are either coercive or they are meaningless.

True, but how does that make them different from the regs?  The State coerces compliance with the regs; other anglers coerce compliance to a code, formal or informal, written or unwritten. JR

Response:

It’s too bad that the only people who will read this code of ethics are people who probably already adhere to stronger standards. Or to put it another way, the problem with codes of ethics is that they are inherently unethical.  They are either coercive or they are meaningless. True, but how does that make them different from the regs?  The State coerces compliance with the regs; other anglers coerce compliance to a code, formal or informal, written or unwritten.

I see two major differences, one practical and the other philosophical. Practically speaking, a coercive code of ethics, in this instance at least (and I’ll look at others in a moment), has no teeth.  The worst that an organization like FFF can do to a violator is revoke membership, which has absolutely no effect on one’s ability or opportunities to go out and fish, ethically or otherwise.  State regulations, on the other hand, have very real and often severe coercive power; violations can result in lost privileges, fines, confiscation of equipment and, in serious cases, even imprisonment. Philosophically, the difference gets right to the heart of what ethics is about.  In essence, ethical behavior is doing what is right simply because it is the right thing to do.  In other words, ethical behavior is characterized expressly by the LACK of coercion and even , in some cases, despite coercive regulations to the contrary.  For example, fishing regulations virtually everywhere state that any fish which may not be legally kept must immediately be returned to the water unharmed.  Obviously, any ethical and/or law abiding fisher will do so whenever possible….but there’s the rub.  We have all encountered situations when a fish which may not be legally kept (due to size restrictions, for instance) is mortally injured by a hook and cannot be released unharmed, and the vast majority of us believe that delivering a quick coup de grace is preferable to allowing the fish to slowly bleed to death.  Clearly, anyone who believes this is ethically bound to kill the fish, contrary to the dictates of the law. As I suggested earlier, there are some situations when what is referred to as a code of ethics can be backed by real authority.  Unlike the case of the FFF, there are many individuals and organizations in a position to impose such a code and punish breaches with more than just a symbolic slap on the wrist.  Employers and associations like the AMA come readily to mind.  The problem here is that such codes fly in the face of what ethics are all about.  That is to say that if one accepts the notion that ethics is about doing the right thing for its own sake, then a code is superfluous at best and antithetical to the whole purpose of ethics in any case.  This whole mess arises through a misuse of the term ethics.  What people are actually being asked (or, more often, TOLD) to subscribe to should more correctly be referred to as a code of conduct…..ethics simply don’t enter into the equation except insofar as one is willing to concede that whoever is doing the dictating has taken an ethical stance.  The irony is that people in a position to dictate "ethics" to someone else are, typically, well educated. They certainly SHOULD know that you cannot dictate ethics and that any pretence to doing so is deceitful and hence, as most thinking persons would likely agree, unethical. Wolfgang

Response:

  <pedantic diatribe which boils down to a misunderstanding of the word ethics To wit: (from Merriam-Webster) the principles of conduct governing an individual or a group — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

  <pedantic diatribe which boils down to a misunderstanding of the word ethics To wit: (from Merriam-Webster) the principles of conduct governing an individual or a group

Hmmm. This is what I got  from Merriam-Webster Collegiate: 1 : the discipline dealing with what is good and bad and with moral duty and obligation — TL, Tim (me thinks Wolfgang is correct)

Response:

          <pedantic diatribe which boils down to a misunderstanding of the word   ethics     To wit: (from Merriam-Webster)     the principles of conduct governing an individual or a group     Thought you didn’t accept dictionary definitions or is that just when they disagree with what you believe? Willi

Response:

Hmmm. This is what I got  from Merriam-Webster Collegiate: 1 : …

Keep on reading. All the way down to 2 c:. (me thinks Wolfgang is correct)

And methinks you can’t even spell methinks. — Ken Fortenberry- you’ve got a dictionary, fer cryin’ out loud USE the damn thing

Response:

Thought you didn’t accept dictionary definitions …

I don’t know what on earth you’re talking about. Which dictionary definition am I supposed to not accept ? — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Hmmm. This is what I got  from Merriam-Webster Collegiate: 1 : … Keep on reading. All the way down to 2 c:.

I saw it, but by the time the definitions get to "2c" they’re getting pretty weak. 1 trumps 2c.  ;-) (me thinks Wolfgang is correct) And methinks you can’t even spell methinks. — Ken Fortenberry- you’ve got a dictionary, fer cryin’ out loud USE the damn

thing Now *that’s* the Ken we know and love. — TL, Tim (my dictionary says you misspelled fur)

Response:

correct) And methinks you can’t even spell methinks. — Ken Fortenberry- you’ve got a dictionary, fer cryin’ out loud USE the damn thing Now *that’s* the Ken we know and love. — TL, Tim

    ain’t it the truth, timj !  :) yfitons wayno

Response:

    Thought you didn’t accept dictionary definitions …         I don’t know what on earth you’re talking about. Which dictionary   definition am I supposed to not accept ?     From an old argument where you just discounted a dictionary definition (several of them, in fact) because their definitions didn’t agree with your position. Willi

Response:

Question:

Before I go off to bed – which I should have done a while ago – I wanted to just think of a nice thing to write about, just in case someone wanted to read about a nice thing – or later write about their own nice thing. Saturday my son and I went to a movie.  There is one of those stores that has everything for a dollar near there, so we went there while we waited for the time for the movie.  I found a necklace rack – and we make lots of jewelry, so lots of times we get chains from those dollar stores to hold pendants that we create from stones or coral or shells encrusted w/wired strands of beads and semi-precious stones, etc.  Okay, so on this rack were also necklaces w/little openwork stars set in colored rhinestones, and also enameled dragonflies and enameled butterflies.  We got them all.  We like to take jewelries apart and put them back together in new ways with our own new components and it comes out to be a beautiful new things.  We thinks that some of you would like to see how they are.  If we knew what kinds of things you liked, we could even make some things for yous.  Yes, we could and even would. That is what we get enjoyment from – we gives our things aways.  Is it pretty to think of the stars w/rhinestones?  They are small, the stars, and the rhinestones are tiny.  Oh, and guess what?  We were at a party on Sunday and there were lots of babies there, and there was one tiny newborn girl who was only three weeks old and her name is Isabella and she was so beautiful and we liked looking at her and she just looked as if her life is going fine.  That’s a good thing, isn’t it?  And my son swam in the pool and made friends – even though he won’t see them again, because the party was far away – but we are so happy my son can do that, because we didn’t be able to when we was of his age. Thanks for your listenings.  Please to write nice things, too, if you feel like it – Beauty.

Response:

great post, Beauty. we, B and me (B being the fellow i care for), have had a busy week. he requested to go to several events this week, more than he ever requested before. one was a small festival by the river in a park that is low lying to the rest of the town since we have gentle mountians surrounding us. he requested a soft serve ice cream cone, and sat in his wheelchair beneath a tree as a local country band played music in the distance in an amphitheatre. we watched people walk by, and some who knew us stopped to chat a bit. the air this evening was warm and slightly humid, and the breeze from the river passing through the trees cooled us. as the sun went down, the lights from small children rides and food vendor’s wagons shown brightly, even with the ball field lights glowing high up above everything and everyone, high up on top of their poles. being a small community in this valley, i recognized many people walking by; people i knew over the past ten years. the younger folks looked so young and behaved in such a free spirited manor, some wearing clothes similar to the style i had worn in the seventies, but somehow more exaggerated. i noticed more jewlery, and piercings. the older women spoke of book reading clubs at the library, and cleaning crates of strawberries for the festival’s one day shortcake event. a few comments about ch*rch, and light humor were shared. B and me felt safe, and took in the varied sounds, and smells, and watched the world go by, as some would say. sometimes all is forgiven and forgotten, and life is breathed in and out of our lungs with welcome and ease. cliff  

Response:

Oh, e, I have always loved hearing about your cats.  There is a wonderful book I picked up on remainder called C*t K*ngdom, about a kind of experimental cat run some peoples created in Japan – I think it was Japan (I might be inventing that part).  The cats had a huge barn and also a huge fenced barnlot, and the peoples just watched – watched how their social structure worked, how they interacted, how their hierarchies worked, etc., over a few generations.  It is full of lots of pictures.  That’s kind of what your story made me think of – except that your situation is much more free-ranging and – purposeful.  And personal.  Again, much respect for what you do – and it did give me a lot of pleasure to read about all the cat friends, esp. Ty who growled his way into affection.  Oh, yeah, and Stella – that brave, wild queen. Beauty. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – thanks, Beauty. i liked hearing about the necklaces. and about Isabella and about your son having fun.  :-)   thanks. the main nice thing in my life now is that my "wild" cats have gone outside, along with most of the older "domestic" cats. they’re all between about 14 mos. old. and 2 1/4 years old. the semi-feral cats and the domestic cats have become good friends. they all seem to get along well and enjoy each other’s company. an almost completely untamed cat, Stella, is their ringleader. (Stella is another story. we got her too late to tame well but she’s such a sweet cat who loved to be petted in her cage and "mothered" most of the other cats, that we had high hopes that she’d tame up;  become our new "favorite, wonderful" cat; and sort of take the place of our old favorite, wonderful cat who died recently. but Stella never liked to be held and when she escaped from her cage late this winter, she was gone. except she comes in regularly to eat. anyway, the "house" cats have calmed down. the kittens are almost grown and so tear through the house much less frequently. they’re much calmer and quieter, although they still like to play. all the kittens are lap cats now except Becky who is afraid of the other cats and so mostly stays by the window. Puka, from the litter that came at the wrong time (i had too many other cats, some of them sick, and was out of it from the meds i was taking so i never paid enough attention to them when they were young and most tamable), is very friendly and follows me around like a puppy. but isn’t as yappy.  she still doesn’t like anyone else, though so adoption is still a long way off.  :-P~  her brother, Silver, was *very* friendly until i tried to get rid of his ear mites. now he only lets me pet him when he’s eating. but he had become so affectionate and he is so sweet that i still think he may eventually tame up better than Puka. we keep hoping that Sid (for Obsidian) will join the outside cats. he’s not at all tame and hides most of the time but i think he’ll be ok outside and will come in for food regularly. Ty, the formerly abused cat who’d lived outside or in our garage, is becoming a house cat. he still spends about half his time outside but he comes in often to be petted. he’s quite demanding.    :-)  when we first got him (as an adult) – right after he’d been neutered – i was afraid to touch him bc he growled so fiercely when i fed him or otherwise went anywhere near his cage. he kept it up the whole time i was near. after about a month or so, i decided i should let him go to become one of my outside cats. but i thought i should at least give him a chance at becoming domestic so i donned two pairs of leather gloves – he’s large and if he bit me i think it could have easily gone to the bone – and started to pet him. he backed up in the corner of his cage and faced me squarely. he was growling fiercely and loudly and looked poised to pounce. but i was determined to at least try to pet him. somehow i scruffed him and started petting his back. to my amazement, he started purring. when i stopped, he cried as if he wanted me to pet him some more. so i tried but as i reached for him, he growled and looked like he might attack me. but i tried again. and he purred again. this went on for a week or so. every time i’d get near his cage or feed him, he’d growl loudly and look like he was going to attack. but as soon as i began to pet him, he turned into a pussycat. and as soon as i’d stop, he’d cry for more petting. but when i’d try to pet him he’d growl and get in attack position as if he were thinking "if i can’t kill you, i’ll d*e trying." but as soon as i started petting him, he’d purr. after about a week of that (with both my kid and i taking turns petting him bc he was so demanding), he started crying soon before feeding time. and he’d cry for an hour or so after we’d left bc he wanted more petting. (we were usually good for around 30 min but rarely more. sometimes less.) but he’d still growl a LOT when we first began to pet him. it was funny. we’ve now had him around 10 mos. this week, he discovered the joys of laying on the sofa.  at first he kept jumping up and running away every time someone or something moved on the sofa (which is frequently when you have lots of cats and a big, pushy dog , but he’s much better about that now. and last night, when i got a toy – one of those flexible plastic sticks that has feathers attached at the end – to play with Puka and Silver (bc poor Puka, who hadn’t been played with in a couple of weeks, was so desperate that she’d been chasing the broom all around as i swept , Ty ran most of the 10 ft. from the sofa, where he’d been laying, to the open door. but i called his name and he stopped and turned around. he didn’t come back but he watched from maybe 6 ft away from the toy. he seemed fascinated but scared as he watched Puka and Silver play. i sat on the sofa, which was next to where i’d been playing with the cats, and called him. he came right away bc he loves to be petted, even if he’s still very skittish around ppl.  i petted him and put the feather toy next to him. he sniffed it a while then licked it. then he started batting it so i moved it a bit. he batted it more. then i moved it more and Ty started playing with the feathers. so did Puka.  :-) anyway, Ty is still skittish but otherwise you’d never know that he’d ever been anything but a very affectionate, sweet, and demanding cat. and my dog is calming down and not chasing the cats as much.  :-)  so a few of them actually like him now.  :-) he likes that. e Before I go off to bed – which I should have done a while ago – I wanted to just think of a nice thing to write about, just in case someone wanted to read about a nice thing – or later write about their own nice thing. Saturday my son and I went to a movie.  There is one of those stores that has everything for a dollar near there, so we went there while we waited for the time for the movie.  I found a necklace rack – and we make lots of jewelry, so lots of times we get chains from those dollar stores to hold pendants that we create from stones or coral or shells encrusted w/wired strands of beads and semi-precious stones, etc.  Okay, so on this rack were also necklaces w/little openwork stars set in colored rhinestones, and also enameled dragonflies and enameled butterflies.  We got them all.  We like to take jewelries apart and put them back together in new ways with our own new components and it comes out to be a beautiful new things.  We thinks that some of you would like to see how they are.  If we knew what kinds of things you liked, we could even make some things for yous.  Yes, we could and even would. That is what we get enjoyment from – we gives our things aways.  Is it pretty to think of the stars w/rhinestones?  They are small, the stars, and the rhinestones are tiny.  Oh, and guess what?  We were at a party on Sunday and there were lots of babies there, and there was one tiny newborn girl who was only three weeks old and her name is Isabella and she was so beautiful and we liked looking at her and she just looked as if her life is going fine.  That’s a good thing, isn’t it?  And my son swam in the pool and made friends – even though he won’t see them again, because the party was far away – but we are so happy my son can do that, because we didn’t be able to when we was of his age. Thanks for your listenings.  Please to write nice things, too, if you feel like it – Beauty.

Response:

This is a lovely post, too, cliff.  Thank you for sharing the beautiful evening.  Your words really brought it alive to us. Beauty. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – great post, Beauty. we, B and me (B being the fellow i care for), have had a busy week. he requested to go to several events this week, more than he ever requested before. one was a small festival by the river in a park that is low lying to the rest of the town since we have gentle mountians surrounding us. he requested a soft serve ice cream cone, and sat in his wheelchair beneath a tree as a local country band played music in the distance in an amphitheatre. we watched people walk by, and some who knew us stopped to chat a bit. the air this evening was warm and slightly humid, and the breeze from the river passing through the trees cooled us. as the sun went down, the lights from small children rides and food vendor’s wagons shown brightly, even with the ball field lights glowing high up above everything and everyone, high up on top of their poles. being a small community in this valley, i recognized many people walking by; people i knew over the past ten years. the younger folks looked so young and behaved in such a free spirited manor, some wearing clothes similar to the style i had worn in the seventies, but somehow more exaggerated. i noticed more jewlery, and piercings. the older women spoke of book reading clubs at the library, and cleaning crates of strawberries for the festival’s one day shortcake event. a few comments about ch*rch, and light humor were shared. B and me felt safe, and took in the varied sounds, and smells, and watched the world go by, as some would say. sometimes all is forgiven and forgotten, and life is breathed in and out of our lungs with welcome and ease. cliff

Response:

Hello, Beauty and J/c,    I think your jewellery making sounds wonderful, Beauty, and I would love to see what you do with the stars and things. Sounds lovely! And J/c, you have done some interesting things and seen some, too. My nice thing is that today my pottery class went to a potter’s studio to see his work and where he does it. He has a restaurant there, too, and we all had lunch together. We laughed, and shared food, especially the desserts, and we wandered with the potter in his fabulous gardens. The spring flowers were blooming, peonies bigger than dinner plates, and lupins and iris. The fish were swimming lazily in the pond, and the water lilies were in full blossom. We saw his wheels and the kiln and everything. We watched him throwing, and he showed us some special tools he has devised for certain purposes. It was an afternoon when DID didn’t. Not much. Driving there and back along the country roads where the green grasses and the gardens are lush was wonderful to see and smell. A nice thing today. jane – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – great post, Beauty. we, B and me (B being the fellow i care for), have had a busy week. he requested to go to several events this week, more than he ever requested before. one was a small festival by the river in a park that is low lying to the rest of the town since we have gentle mountians surrounding us. he requested a soft serve ice cream cone, and sat in his wheelchair beneath a tree as a local country band played music in the distance in an amphitheatre. we watched people walk by, and some who knew us stopped to chat a bit. the air this evening was warm and slightly humid, and the breeze from the river passing through the trees cooled us. as the sun went down, the lights from small children rides and food vendor’s wagons shown brightly, even with the ball field lights glowing high up above everything and everyone, high up on top of their poles. being a small community in this valley, i recognized many people walking by; people i knew over the past ten years. the younger folks looked so young and behaved in such a free spirited manor, some wearing clothes similar to the style i had worn in the seventies, but somehow more exaggerated. i noticed more jewlery, and piercings. the older women spoke of book reading clubs at the library, and cleaning crates of strawberries for the festival’s one day shortcake event. a few comments about ch*rch, and light humor were shared. B and me felt safe, and took in the varied sounds, and smells, and watched the world go by, as some would say. sometimes all is forgiven and forgotten, and life is breathed in and out of our lungs with welcome and ease. cliff

Response:

Oh, it sounds so beautiful, jane.  Gardens and food and pots and fish.  What more could anyone want? Beauty. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, Beauty and J/c,    I think your jewellery making sounds wonderful, Beauty, and I would love to see what you do with the stars and things. Sounds lovely! And J/c, you have done some interesting things and seen some, too. My nice thing is that today my pottery class went to a potter’s studio to see his work and where he does it. He has a restaurant there, too, and we all had lunch together. We laughed, and shared food, especially the desserts, and we wandered with the potter in his fabulous gardens. The spring flowers were blooming, peonies bigger than dinner plates, and lupins and iris. The fish were swimming lazily in the pond, and the water lilies were in full blossom. We saw his wheels and the kiln and everything. We watched him throwing, and he showed us some special tools he has devised for certain purposes. It was an afternoon when DID didn’t. Not much. Driving there and back along the country roads where the green grasses and the gardens are lush was wonderful to see and smell. A nice thing today. jane great post, Beauty. we, B and me (B being the fellow i care for), have had a busy week. he requested to go to several events this week, more than he ever requested before. one was a small festival by the river in a park that is low lying to the rest of the town since we have gentle mountians surrounding us. he requested a soft serve ice cream cone, and sat in his wheelchair beneath a tree as a local country band played music in the distance in an amphitheatre. we watched people walk by, and some who knew us stopped to chat a bit. the air this evening was warm and slightly humid, and the breeze from the river passing through the trees cooled us. as the sun went down, the lights from small children rides and food vendor’s wagons shown brightly, even with the ball field lights glowing high up above everything and everyone, high up on top of their poles. being a small community in this valley, i recognized many people walking by; people i knew over the past ten years. the younger folks looked so young and behaved in such a free spirited manor, some wearing clothes similar to the style i had worn in the seventies, but somehow more exaggerated. i noticed more jewlery, and piercings. the older women spoke of book reading clubs at the library, and cleaning crates of strawberries for the festival’s one day shortcake event. a few comments about ch*rch, and light humor were shared. B and me felt safe, and took in the varied sounds, and smells, and watched the world go by, as some would say. sometimes all is forgiven and forgotten, and life is breathed in and out of our lungs with welcome and ease. cliff

Response:

That is amazing about the other ducks, and thank you for helping the duck and we holding the duck in thoughts for healing best.  And here is a strange and funny thing:  we was watching M*ts and Or*oles game on television and there was a pair of mallards which came during about the 2nd inning and stayed through the 8th inning!!!  They was just wandering around out on the field together all that time together, and we think that is so funny and amazing and funny and then they just flew off and the camera kept showing us them and they showed us them flying off together, too.  Isn’t that funny and odd??? Beauty. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – well i was at the park and i saw my daughter’s dog running along with someone, it was her friend who is dog-sitting.  she stoppedand we were talking a minute when some people were noticing an injured duck at the side of the pond.  no one wanted to help it so we took it to the emergency vets and they will see if it can be saved.  i haven’t called yet to find out but we felt really good about trying, duck had bad leg, couldn’t swim and would have suffered out in the heat tomorrow if the ants didn’t get it first.  what was really touching was how the other ducks were gathered around him and wouldn’t leave him.  wish the duck luck.   best, samantha

Response:

well i was at the park and i saw my daughter’s dog running along with someone, it was her friend who is dog-sitting.  she stoppedand we were talking a minute when some people were noticing an injured duck at the side of the pond.  no one wanted to help it so we took it to the emergency vets and they will see if it can be saved.  i haven’t called yet to find out but we felt really good about trying, duck had bad leg, couldn’t swim and would have suffered out in the heat tomorrow if the ants didn’t get it first.  what was really touching was how the other ducks were gathered around him and wouldn’t leave him.  wish the duck luck.   best, samantha  

Response:

hey – we had ducks too! i did forget all about them until now you say you had ducks. we lived in suburbs too, but there was a little bit of woods and a lake behind our house, and the ducks did live there. they would come quacking up through our back yard, and we would give them bread crumbs or something, and then they would go quacking home. what i remember as good about childhood was the lake behind our house. we would go there, and there was a tree with a little clearing that we could sit under and be lazy, and then there was cattails growing by the lake, and we could walk all around the lake on a little path, and sometimes go down to the water and watch little fishes. and sometimes go fishing too. and i think it’s not allowed now but we would whack the cattails open and it would be like little feathers floating and falling through the air. and then also we would pick the blackberries that did grow there. yum yum and sometimes ouch. i remember now i really did love the lake. tv

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We had ducks, my sister and I, when we were little.  They grew up and got white and we gave them to a farm.  They were cute ducklings – we had suburbs so we couldn’t have big ducks, it would have been stupid.  Thanks for writing. Beauty. hi beauty,  those ducks at the game sound really cute!  i had pet ducks as a child, have always loved to watch them.  all i know about my duck so far is the vet sent him to animal rescue, which i think means he could be saved.  still trying to find out more.   best, samantha

Response:

We had ducks, my sister and I, when we were little.  They grew up and got white and we gave them to a farm.  They were cute ducklings – we had suburbs so we couldn’t have big ducks, it would have been stupid.  Thanks for writing. Beauty. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hi beauty,  those ducks at the game sound really cute!  i had pet ducks as a child, have always loved to watch them.  all i know about my duck so far is the vet sent him to animal rescue, which i think means he could be saved.  still trying to find out more.   best, samantha

Response:

Thank you for the nice things.  We will tell you of one magical morning.  We woke up about 17 years ago in April to a freak blizzard of about four feet, and out of nowhere, perched all over our half a dozen bird feeders (we lived on a hill surrounded by deep woods) were scores of evening grosbeaks – do you know what they look like?  They are huge brilliant yellow birds w/parrot beaks and black markings.  We couldn’t believe it – we had never seen them before in our lives, and then there they were by the dozen.  The other thing we saw that was wonderful once was a group of newly-fledged scarlet tanagers:  when they are newly-fledged, they are not completely red yet – they are part red and part green – also like parrots.  Amazing!  I adore birds – they are the most incredible, incredible, beautiful creatures.  There are no words for how wonderful, delicate, unearthly they are.  But you know that.  Oh – and the unearthly, subtle, inexpressible colors of the mourning doves . . . Best – Beauty. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – well i was at the park and i saw my daughter’s dog running along with someone, it was her friend who is dog-sitting. she stoppedand we were talking a minute when some people were noticing an injured duck at the side of the pond. no one wanted to help it so we took it to the emergency vets and they will see if it can be saved. i haven’t called yet to find out but we felt really good about trying, duck had bad leg, couldn’t swim and would have suffered out in the heat tomorrow if the ants didn’t get it first. what was really touching was how the other ducks were gathered around him and wouldn’t leave him. wish the duck luck. best, samantha That was so kind of you, samantha.  The duck was very lucky that y’all came along.  Hope it’s doing better. My nice thing is that the other day I saw a Northern Oriole, and a wild parrot,  both within 5 minutes .  They were both so incredibly beautiful. mdove — For info about this service, see http://anon.twwells.com/help/ or e-mail:

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – well i was at the park and i saw my daughter’s dog running along with someone, it was her friend who is dog-sitting. she stoppedand we were talking a minute when some people were noticing an injured duck at the side of the pond. no one wanted to help it so we took it to the emergency vets and they will see if it can be saved. i haven’t called yet to find out but we felt really good about trying, duck had bad leg, couldn’t swim and would have suffered out in the heat tomorrow if the ants didn’t get it first. what was really touching was how the other ducks were gathered around him and wouldn’t leave him. wish the duck luck. best, samantha

That was so kind of you, samantha.  The duck was very lucky that y’all came along.  Hope it’s doing better. My nice thing is that the other day I saw a Northern Oriole, and a wild parrot,  both within 5 minutes .  They were both so incredibly beautiful. mdove — For info about this service, see http://anon.twwells.com/help/ or e-mail:

Response:

hi beauty,  those ducks at the game sound really cute!  i had pet ducks as a child, have always loved to watch them.  all i know about my duck so far is the vet sent him to animal rescue, which i think means he could be saved.  still trying to find out more.   best, samantha

Response:

Now we say funny – we had our ducks from when they used to have to be allowed to sell them in dime stores, back when the did still have dime stores, which they do not anymore, now they have dollar stores.  But one night we all did go to the dime store for something we don’t remember what because we were only maybe four years old and we did see ducklings and chicks under warm lights and going peepeepeep like they do and we were so happy to see them and all of a sudden the fthr said we would get two of them, for my sstr and me and the mthr argued no it was crazy but he did make it happen, and we could hardly believe it!!!!!  They did let us pick out our ones and we did, and they did get a shoebox with holes in the top for the ducklings to get air for us to take them home and then we couldn’t stand it for when we got in the car we just had to peek and of course out they did hop and all around the car and peep peep peep and under the seats and things but we did finally get them to get back to us and we got them back into the box and to the house and they did live there, inside and out, until they did get big and white. Beautys. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hey – we had ducks too! i did forget all about them until now you say you had ducks. we lived in suburbs too, but there was a little bit of woods and a lake behind our house, and the ducks did live there. they would come quacking up through our back yard, and we would give them bread crumbs or something, and then they would go quacking home. what i remember as good about childhood was the lake behind our house. we would go there, and there was a tree with a little clearing that we could sit under and be lazy, and then there was cattails growing by the lake, and we could walk all around the lake on a little path, and sometimes go down to the water and watch little fishes. and sometimes go fishing too. and i think it’s not allowed now but we would whack the cattails open and it would be like little feathers floating and falling through the air. and then also we would pick the blackberries that did grow there. yum yum and sometimes ouch. i remember now i really did love the lake. tv We had ducks, my sister and I, when we were little.  They grew up and got white and we gave them to a farm.  They were cute ducklings – we had suburbs so we couldn’t have big ducks, it would have been stupid.  Thanks for writing. Beauty. hi beauty,  those ducks at the game sound really cute!  i had pet ducks as a child, have always loved to watch them.  all i know about my duck so far is the vet sent him to animal rescue, which i think means he could be saved.  still trying to find out more.   best, samantha

Response:

(trying to focus some, and hurting some too) writitng seems to be my salvaion, eventhough i don’t do it so well. good things, yeah, they happen. like last evening, watching the sunset from a higher point in the valley, before it dipped down low where fields, spotted with round bales of hey and cattle, little homes with white wooden siding and porches, barns and silos, rail and wire fences, and trees reaching the first mountain ridge, exposing the next ridge, and then the next, maybe four rows of mountains leading to the final horizon all in lighter shades of blue. warm air breezes carrying rich sweet smells of fresh cut alphalfa (sp) hey intoxicated my senses. i didn’t want to leave. thanks. oh, and Beauty. i sing everything, proudly, and badly! )) cliff    

Response:

cliff, I have read the place where you wrote how much you want to speak/write – how you yearn to reach for language.  Oh, you do have it, my friend.  Your prose does sing – proudly, proudly – and w/strength.  And the humility and pride, hand in hand, augment the strength. Peace – Beauty. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (trying to focus some, and hurting some too) writitng seems to be my salvaion, eventhough i don’t do it so well. good things, yeah, they happen. like last evening, watching the sunset from a higher point in the valley, before it dipped down low where fields, spotted with round bales of hey and cattle, little homes with white wooden siding and porches, barns and silos, rail and wire fences, and trees reaching the first mountain ridge, exposing the next ridge, and then the next, maybe four rows of mountains leading to the final horizon all in lighter shades of blue. warm air breezes carrying rich sweet smells of fresh cut alphalfa (sp) hey intoxicated my senses. i didn’t want to leave. thanks. oh, and Beauty. i sing everything, proudly, and badly! )) cliff

Response:

Wow, what wonderful sightings, Beauty.  Magical indeed!   I love birds, too, as you might have guessed.  My most exciting sighting this year was a pileated woodpecker.  We get lots of red-bellied, Downy and Hairy woodpeckers, but this was a real treat.  He was magnificent (and noisy, even tho’ he was pecking very slowly and deliberately). mdove Thank you for the nice things. We will tell you of one magical morning. We woke up about 17 years ago in April to a freak blizzard of about four feet, and out of nowhere, perched all over our half a dozen bird feeders (we lived on a hill surrounded by deep woods) were scores of evening grosbeaks – do you know what they look like?

Oh, yes.  But I’ve only seen one, many years ago. They are huge brilliant yellow birds – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – w/parrot beaks and black markings. We couldn’t believe it – we had never seen them before in our lives, and then there they were by the dozen. The other thing we saw that was wonderful once was a group of newly-fledged scarlet tanagers: when they are newly-fledged, they are not completely red yet – they are part red and part green – also like parrots. Amazing! I adore birds – they are the most incredible, incredible, beautiful creatures. There are no words for how wonderful, delicate, unearthly they are. But you know that. Oh – and the unearthly, subtle, inexpressible colors of the mourning doves . . . Best – Beauty. well i was at the park and i saw my daughter’s dog running along with someone, it was her friend who is dog-sitting. she stoppedand we were talking a minute when some people were noticing an injured duck at the side of the pond. no one wanted to help it so we took it to the emergency vets and they will see if it can be saved. i haven’t called yet to find out but we felt really good about trying, duck had bad leg, couldn’t swim and would have suffered out in the heat tomorrow if the ants didn’t get it first. what was really touching was how the other ducks were gathered around him and wouldn’t leave him. wish the duck luck. best, samantha That was so kind of you, samantha. The duck was very lucky that y’all came along. Hope it’s doing better. My nice thing is that the other day I saw a Northern Oriole, and a wild parrot, both within 5 minutes . They were both so incredibly beautiful. mdove — For info about this service, see http://anon.twwells.com/help/ or e-mail: message

GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. — For info about this service, see http://anon.twwells.com/help/ or e-mail:

Response:

You would love it where we are – pileated heaven.  Someone once counted 26 pileateds at once in a single site.  And we have them living right around us – across the road mostly, in a big old rotten tree.  Also, our favorite thing – once we saw a nest of baby ones – just barely fledged – sticking their silly little baby necks all out of the tree squawking for the mthr – and then the next day – they had flown the nest!!!  We also had a phoebe who nested for years atop the light just outside our door, attached to our house – we passed w/in inches of her nest coming and going all spring and summer.  The last summer she was here she raised two broods – they were *darling*!!!! when they were just to the stage of standing on the edge of the nest ready to fly – looking down at us with this completely unfazed gaze – just too, too baby even to care that we were another species – darling. Beauty. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wow, what wonderful sightings, Beauty.  Magical indeed!   I love birds, too, as you might have guessed.  My most exciting sighting this year was a pileated woodpecker.  We get lots of red-bellied, Downy and Hairy woodpeckers, but this was a real treat.  He was magnificent (and noisy, even tho’ he was pecking very slowly and deliberately). mdove Thank you for the nice things. We will tell you of one magical morning. We woke up about 17 years ago in April to a freak blizzard of about four feet, and out of nowhere, perched all over our half a dozen bird feeders (we lived on a hill surrounded by deep woods) were scores of evening grosbeaks – do you know what they look like? Oh, yes.  But I’ve only seen one, many years ago. They are huge brilliant yellow birds w/parrot beaks and black markings. We couldn’t believe it – we had never seen them before in our lives, and then there they were by the dozen. The other thing we saw that was wonderful once was a group of newly-fledged scarlet tanagers: when they are newly-fledged, they are not completely red yet – they are part red and part green – also like parrots. Amazing! I adore birds – they are the most incredible, incredible, beautiful creatures. There are no words for how wonderful, delicate, unearthly they are. But you know that. Oh – and the unearthly, subtle, inexpressible colors of the mourning doves . . . Best – Beauty. well i was at the park and i saw my daughter’s dog running along with someone, it was her friend who is dog-sitting. she stoppedand we were talking a minute when some people were noticing an injured duck at the side of the pond. no one wanted to help it so we took it to the emergency vets and they will see if it can be saved. i haven’t called yet to find out but we felt really good about trying, duck had bad leg, couldn’t swim and would have suffered out in the heat tomorrow if the ants didn’t get it first. what was really touching was how the other ducks were gathered around him and wouldn’t leave him. wish the duck luck. best, samantha That was so kind of you, samantha. The duck was very lucky that y’all came along. Hope it’s doing better. My nice thing is that the other day I saw a Northern Oriole, and a wild parrot, both within 5 minutes . They were both so incredibly beautiful. mdove — For info about this service, see http://anon.twwells.com/help/ or e-mail: message GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. — For info about this service, see http://anon.twwells.com/help/ or e-mail:

Response:

P.S. – Did you know that pileateds are the only species of woodpecker who begin by pecking slow and get faster as they peck (that is, when they are pecking in rhythm, and not in that single-stroke, deliberate way you mention).  So that’s one way you can tell if there are pileateds around even if you don’t see them – their pecking sounds like a ten-penny nail being driven into a telephone pole by an accelerating hammer. W**dy W**dpecker is a pileated.  His crazy laugh is modeled on the actual sound they make, which really does sound like maniacal laughter.  You can tell the males from the females because the males have crests which are entirely red and the females have crests which are red only along the top of the tuft. You probably know most of that, right?  I’m just being excited, because I like to talk about birds.  One winter I worked to get chickadees to land in my hands and eat.  That spring, they still knew me, and they used to land on my head when I was sitting outside reading.  That was one of my most magical experiences ever – the feel of their little feet – I can’t even begin to describe it – and knowing that they would come to me, let their little feathers and bright eyes live so close to my seeing. Beauty. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wow, what wonderful sightings, Beauty.  Magical indeed!   I love birds, too, as you might have guessed.  My most exciting sighting this year was a pileated woodpecker.  We get lots of red-bellied, Downy and Hairy woodpeckers, but this was a real treat.  He was magnificent (and noisy, even tho’ he was pecking very slowly and deliberately). mdove Thank you for the nice things. We will tell you of one magical morning. We woke up about 17 years ago in April to a freak blizzard of about four feet, and out of nowhere, perched all over our half a dozen bird feeders (we lived on a hill surrounded by deep woods) were scores of evening grosbeaks – do you know what they look like? Oh, yes.  But I’ve only seen one, many years ago. They are huge brilliant yellow birds w/parrot beaks and black markings. We couldn’t believe it – we had never seen them before in our lives, and then there they were by the dozen. The other thing we saw that was wonderful once was a group of newly-fledged scarlet tanagers: when they are newly-fledged, they are not completely red yet – they are part red and part green – also like parrots. Amazing! I adore birds – they are the most incredible, incredible, beautiful creatures. There are no words for how wonderful, delicate, unearthly they are. But you know that. Oh – and the unearthly, subtle, inexpressible colors of the mourning doves . . . Best – Beauty. well i was at the park and i saw my daughter’s dog running along with someone, it was her friend who is dog-sitting. she stoppedand we were talking a minute when some people were noticing an injured duck at the side of the pond. no one wanted to help it so we took it to the emergency vets and they will see if it can be saved. i haven’t called yet to find out but we felt really good about trying, duck had bad leg, couldn’t swim and would have suffered out in the heat tomorrow if the ants didn’t get it first. what was really touching was how the other ducks were gathered around him and wouldn’t leave him. wish the duck luck. best, samantha That was so kind of you, samantha. The duck was very lucky that y’all came along. Hope it’s doing better. My nice thing is that the other day I saw a Northern Oriole, and a wild parrot, both within 5 minutes . They were both so incredibly beautiful. mdove — For info about this service, see http://anon.twwells.com/help/ or e-mail: message GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. — For info about this service, see http://anon.twwells.com/help/ or e-mail:

Response:

Hey Beauty Really enjoy reading your *bird* posts…..:o)) Thanx Those pileated sure are something aren’t they!! Don’t get to see very many of them up here.. In fact I think they are on the endangered list… Just a couple of years ago my p*rents stopped the government from building an access road to their secluded community because a mating pair had settled in the bush behind their place.. They live 20 miles to the nearest road and they like it that way..;)  Gov. regulations forbade any construction within the area….  :o)) Cool birds to watch… too!    :o)) J/c btw… we see a lot of evening grosbeaks up here too!! beautiful!!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You would love it where we are – pileated heaven.  Someone once counted 26 pileateds at once in a single site.  And we have them living right around us – across the road mostly, in a big old rotten tree.  Also, our favorite thing – once we saw a nest of baby ones – just barely fledged – sticking their silly little baby necks all out of the tree squawking for the mthr – and then the next day – they had flown the nest!!!  We also had a phoebe who nested for years atop the light just outside our door, attached to our house – we passed w/in inches of her nest coming and going all spring and summer. The last summer she was here she raised two broods – they were *darling*!!!! when they were just to the stage of standing on the edge of the nest ready to fly – looking down at us with this completely unfazed gaze – just too, too baby even to care that we were another species – darling. Beauty. Wow, what wonderful sightings, Beauty.  Magical indeed!   I love birds, too, as you might have guessed.  My most exciting sighting this year was a pileated woodpecker.  We get lots of red-bellied, Downy and Hairy woodpeckers, but this was a real treat.  He was magnificent (and noisy, even tho’ he was pecking very slowly and deliberately). mdove Thank you for the nice things. We will tell you of one magical morning. We woke up about 17 years ago in April to a freak blizzard of about four feet, and out of nowhere, perched all over our half a dozen bird feeders (we lived on a hill surrounded by deep woods) were scores of evening grosbeaks – do you know what they look like? Oh, yes.  But I’ve only seen one, many years ago. They are huge brilliant yellow birds w/parrot beaks and black markings. We couldn’t believe it – we had never seen them before in our lives, and then there they were by the dozen. The other thing we saw that was wonderful once was a group of newly-fledged scarlet tanagers: when they are newly-fledged, they are not completely red yet – they are part red and part green – also like parrots. Amazing! I adore birds – they are the most incredible, incredible, beautiful creatures. There are no words for how wonderful, delicate, unearthly they are. But you know that. Oh – and the unearthly, subtle, inexpressible colors of the mourning doves . . . Best – Beauty. well i was at the park and i saw my daughter’s dog running along with someone, it was her friend who is dog-sitting. she stoppedand we were talking a minute when some people were noticing an injured duck at the side of the pond. no one wanted to help it so we took it to the emergency vets and they will see if it can be saved. i haven’t called yet to find out but we felt really good about trying, duck had bad leg, couldn’t swim and would have suffered out in the heat tomorrow if the ants didn’t get it first. what was really touching was how the other ducks were gathered around him and wouldn’t leave him. wish the duck luck. best, samantha That was so kind of you, samantha. The duck was very lucky that y’all came along. Hope it’s doing better. My nice thing is that the other day I saw a Northern Oriole, and a wild parrot, both within 5 minutes . They were both so incredibly beautiful. mdove — For info about this service, see http://anon.twwells.com/help/ or e-mail: message GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. — For info about this service, see http://anon.twwells.com/help/ or e-mail:

Response:

You would love it where we are – pileated heaven. Someone once counted 26 pileateds at once in a single site.

Yes, I would love that.  I can’t even imagine a sight like that!  About 11 years ago I saw a pair, but hadn’t seen any since, until this one. And we have them living right around us – across the road mostly, in a big old rotten tree. Also, our favorite thing – once we saw a nest of baby ones – just barely fledged – sticking their silly little baby necks all out of the tree squawking for the mthr – and then the next day – they had flown the nest!!!

Oh, wow!!  I’ll bet they were cute (or so ugly they were cute.) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -We also had a phoebe who nested for years atop the light just outside our door, attached to our house – we passed w/in inches of her nest coming and going all spring and summer. The last summer she was here she raised two broods – they were *darling*!!!! when they were just to the stage of standing on the edge of the nest ready to fly – looking down at us with this completely unfazed gaze – just too, too baby even to care that we were another species – darling.

Wonderful!!!!!   Once we had the privilege of watching a chuck-will’s-widow nesting in our yard (actually, there was no visible nest at all-she just laid her eggs on the ground.  It was a wonderful treat because we had heard them at night for many years, but had never seen one.  We got to see her and her three young ones up close and personal.  An amazing bird–really put on quite a display if anyone got to close to the nest. mdove — For info about this service, see http://anon.twwells.com/help/ or e-mail:

Response:

P.S. – Did you know that pileateds are the only species of woodpecker who begin by pecking slow and get faster as they peck (that is, when they are pecking in rhythm, and not in that single-stroke, deliberate way you mention). So that’s one way you can tell if there are pileateds around even if you don’t see them – their pecking sounds like a ten-penny nail being driven into a telephone pole by an accelerating hammer.

Didn’t know that….or if I did, I forgot W**dy W**dpecker is a pileated. His crazy laugh is modeled on the actual sound they make, which really does sound like maniacal laughter. You can tell the males from the females because the males have crests which are entirely red and the females have crests which are red only along the top of the tuft.

Yep, knew that….this one was a male. You probably know most of that, right? I’m just being excited, because I like to talk about birds.

Several years ago I used to lurk at rec.birds……lots of bird talk there.  At least there used to be.  I used to know a lot more about birds than I do now.  I kind of lost interest while I was really depressed, and have forgotten quite a bit,  but my enthusiasm for birdwatching has been returning during the past couple years.  I need to get some new binoculars and get back out there..   One winter I worked to get chickadees to land in my hands and eat. That spring, they still knew me, and they used to land on my head when I was sitting outside reading. That was one of my most magical experiences ever – the feel of their little feet – I can’t even begin to describe it – and knowing that they would come to me, let their little feathers and bright eyes live so close to my seeing. Beauty.

Oh, that is so cute…..<broad smile  what a wonderful experience. Thank you for sharing this. mdove — For info about this service, see http://anon.twwells.com/help/ or e-mail:

Response:

thanks so much to tv, Beauty, samantha, mdove, and others who’ve talked about their experiences with birds.  :-)  i like watching birds but try to discourage them from being in my yard, partly bc of my cats and partly bc of the neighborhood dogs, including mine. but to have birds land on your head would be magical!  :-) i can’t imagine how much work it must have taken. i’m reminded of Beauty from the story "Beauty" (IIRC) which was a retelling of "Beauty and the Beast". oh, and D*sney’s and others’ versions of the story, too.  :-) e You would love it where we are – pileated heaven.  Someone once counted 26 pileateds at once in a single site.  And we have them living right around us – across the road mostly, in a big old rotten tree.  Also, our favorite thing – once we saw a nest of baby ones – just barely fledged – sticking their silly little baby necks all out of the tree squawking for the mthr – and then the next day – they had flown the nest!!!  We also had a phoebe who nested for years atop the light just outside our door, attached to our house – we passed w/in inches of her nest coming and going all spring and summer.  The last summer she was here she raised two broods – they were *darling*!!!! when they were just to the stage of standing on the edge of the nest ready to fly – looking down at us with this completely unfazed gaze – just too, too baby even to care that we were another species – darling. Beauty.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -One winter I worked to get chickadees to land in my hands and eat.  That spring, they still knew me, and they used to land on my head when I was sitting outside reading.  That was one of my most magical experiences ever – the feel of their little feet – I can’t even begin to describe it – and knowing that they would come to me, let their little feathers and bright eyes live so close to my seeing. Wow, what wonderful sightings, Beauty.  Magical indeed!   I love birds, too, as you might have guessed.  My most exciting sighting this year was a pileated woodpecker.  We get lots of red-bellied, Downy and Hairy woodpeckers, but this was a real treat.  He was magnificent (and noisy, even tho’ he was pecking very slowly and deliberately). mdove Thank you for the nice things. We will tell you of one magical morning. We woke up about 17 years ago in April to a freak blizzard of about four feet, and out of nowhere, perched all over our half a dozen bird feeders (we lived on a hill surrounded by deep woods) were scores of evening grosbeaks – do you know what they look like? Oh, yes.  But I’ve only seen one, many years ago. They are huge brilliant yellow birds  w/parrot beaks and black markings. We couldn’t believe it – we had never seen them before in our lives, and then there they were by the dozen. The other thing we saw that was wonderful once was a group of newly-fledged scarlet tanagers: when they are newly-fledged, they are not completely red yet – they are part red and part green – also like parrots. Amazing! I adore birds – they are the most incredible, incredible, beautiful creatures. There are no words for how wonderful, delicate, unearthly they are. But you know that. Oh – and the unearthly, subtle, inexpressible colors of the mourning doves . . .

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Sometimes we pretend that when they say "dee dee dee" they are really advertising the latest in video recording technology (DVD).  It’s funny when you think of it in chickadee talk. Beauty. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – P.S. – Did you know that pileateds are the only species of woodpecker who begin by pecking slow and get faster as they peck (that is, when they are pecking in rhythm, and not in that single-stroke, deliberate way you mention). So that’s one way you can tell if there are pileateds around even if you don’t see them – their pecking sounds like a ten-penny nail being driven into a telephone pole by an accelerating hammer. Didn’t know that….or if I did, I forgot W**dy W**dpecker is a pileated. His crazy laugh is modeled on the actual sound they make, which really does sound like maniacal laughter. You can tell the males from the females because the males have crests which are entirely red and the females have crests which are red only along the top of the tuft. Yep, knew that….this one was a male. You probably know most of that, right? I’m just being excited, because I like to talk about birds. Several years ago I used to lurk at rec.birds……lots of bird talk there.  At least there used to be.  I used to know a lot more about birds than I do now.  I kind of lost interest while I was really depressed, and have forgotten quite a bit,  but my enthusiasm for birdwatching has been returning during the past couple years.  I need to get some new binoculars and get back out there.. One winter I worked to get chickadees to land in my hands and eat. That spring, they still knew me, and they used to land on my head when I was sitting outside reading. That was one of my most magical experiences ever – the feel of their little feet – I can’t even begin to describe it – and knowing that they would come to me, let their little feathers and bright eyes live so close to my seeing. Beauty. Oh, that is so cute…..<broad smile  what a wonderful experience. Thank you for sharing this. mdove — For info about this service, see http://anon.twwells.com/help/ or e-mail:

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Oh, yes, the pileateds were purely cute.  And we do love those ground-nesting "willow" birds – nightjars, are they called, as a type?  Our favorite is the whip-poor-will – what a beautiful, beautiful haunting sound, which echoes from mountain to mountain through the early pre-dawn mists.  And if you hear one close enough, you hear a tiny cough just before the call.  Also reminds me – have you see the woodcocks do their mating dance?  Or hummingbirds? We’ll explain, given the slightest excuse.  Never did see a chuck-will’s-widow.  Our other favorites are the little screech owls we get to hear in our riverine woods, and the pair of great horned owls also nesting along the river.  The female of the species has the deeper voice of the two. Oh, and once a barred owl got tangled in some fishing wire and we got to help rescue her –  and her eyes – oh the solemn depth of blackness – and the soft depth of feathers. Beauty. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You would love it where we are – pileated heaven. Someone once counted 26 pileateds at once in a single site. Yes, I would love that.  I can’t even imagine a sight like that!  About 11 years ago I saw a pair, but hadn’t seen any since, until this one. And we have them living right around us – across the road mostly, in a big old rotten tree. Also, our favorite thing – once we saw a nest of baby ones – just barely fledged – sticking their silly little baby necks all out of the tree squawking for the mthr – and then the next day – they had flown the nest!!! Oh, wow!!  I’ll bet they were cute (or so ugly they were cute.) We also had a phoebe who nested for years atop the light just outside our door, attached to our house – we passed w/in inches of her nest coming and going all spring and summer. The last summer she was here she raised two broods – they were *darling*!!!! when they were just to the stage of standing on the edge of the nest ready to fly – looking down at us with this completely unfazed gaze – just too, too baby even to care that we were another species – darling. Wonderful!!!!!   Once we had the privilege of watching a chuck-will’s-widow nesting in our yard (actually, there was no visible nest at all-she just laid her eggs on the ground.  It was a wonderful treat because we had heard them at night for many years, but had never seen one.  We got to see her and her three young ones up close and personal.  An amazing bird–really put on quite a display if anyone got to close to the nest. mdove — For info about this service, see http://anon.twwells.com/help/ or e-mail:

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – And, p.s., we also have wild turkeys in abundance around here, and I saw a baby turkey once and it was *funny* *funny* *funny* looking. And we do love those ground-nesting "willow" birds – nightjars, are they called, as a type? Yep… Our favorite is the whip-poor-will – what a beautiful, beautiful haunting sound, which echoes from mountain to mountain through the early pre-dawn mists. And if you hear one close enough, you hear a tiny cough just before the call. Chuck-will’s-widow sounds very similar to the whip-poor-will, I think, except there is a little "chuck" sound before the call. I didn’t realize the whip-poor-will had the cough sound. Interesting birds. Maybe the cough was a chuck. Seems likely. Or a cluck. Or something. It was a very, very, very small sound, only audible because the bird was practically sitting on my windowsill. Well, under it. Also reminds me – have you see the woodcocks do their mating dance? I’ve never seen a woodcock in RL, only on television. They are pretty cool looking. That must be quite a sight. Here’s what they do. They like to live near wetlands that have adjacent meadows – they go into the meadows at twilight. The males fly straight up like rockets and then come spiraling down – and as they come down, special feathers in their wings cause a whistling sound!!! I’ve seen the females sitting on the ground, too – kind of looking like, "Get off it." You know.

Too cool.  I’d love to see that. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Or hummingbirds? Have seen many ruby-throated, but none doing a mating dance, unfortunately. They are amazing. Male hummingbirds also have special feathers that cause a humming sound when they do their mating thing – which is a wide, swinging, pendulum motion in flight, before the seated female. We’ll explain, given the slightest excuse. Never did see a chuck-will’s-widow. Our other favorites are the little screech owls we get to hear in our riverine woods, and the pair of great horned owls also nesting along the river. The female of the species has the deeper voice of the two. You know, we have one of those bird clocks, and the 12:00 bird is the great horned owl. That is fine for noon, but if I am working at the computer at night, I need to remember to dim the lights in here prior to midnight, or the hoot resounds throughout the house. When we first got the clock, my son used to imitate the owl incessantly. Once I was awakened at 3:00 am by the sound and was just about to yell out at him to knock it off (I wasn’t quite fully awake), when I realized it was the actual bird, very close to our house. We had never heard one before we purchased that silly clock, and were wondering if perhaps the clock had attracted one (it is a really loud clock!) They have about five or six hoots per call – hoo! hoo-hoo-hoo-hoo . . . hoo – I never knew that until I read Peterson’s guide and then heard them.

Yes….this clock is very accurate, as was my son’s imitation.  Now we call all do it, but my son’s hoo-ing is by far the best. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Oh, and once a barred owl got tangled in some fishing wire and we got to help rescue her – and her eyes – oh the solemn depth of blackness – and the soft depth of feathers. What an incredible experience that must have been. Was she calm as you helped her? They’ve got some pretty sharp talons. She was calm as a lamb. I think she was so frightened – she had been up there so long – and probably weak – that she had no fight in her. We have pictures of her, because the local newspaper was there and got color photos.

Wonderful… Thanks for reading. I like this talking about birds – they make me happy when nothing else does.

me, too.  I like butterflies, too.  I used to have 2 butterfly gardens, but surrendered them to the weeds during a couple years of depression. One is totally gone, but the other is probably salvageable.  Maybe I’ll go out there one of these days and try to start rehabilitating it. Today, too, we saw a beautiful butterfly – I don’t know what kind – yellow and black on top with yellow and black and aqua underneath!

Sounds beautiful.  I have a butterfly book around here somewhere. Haven’t looked in it in ages. And the black raspberries suddenly turned ripe – as my son discovered. He wrote a beautiful poem called The Garden: Like the garden of Eden it is. So vast, like the ocean. The hours fly like a bird in the air, when I am there.

Oh, that is beautiful beyond words! Can you see why I love him so much?

Absolutely!    Oh, shoot….it’s midnight, and I forgot to dim the lights.  There goes "Hoots"….. g’night mdove Beauty.

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snip Thanks for reading. I like this talking about birds – they make me happy when nothing else does. me, too.  I like butterflies, too.  I used to have 2 butterfly gardens, but surrendered them to the weeds during a couple years of depression. One is totally gone, but the other is probably salvageable.  Maybe I’ll go out there one of these days and try to start rehabilitating it.

do you have any recommendations for plants (for next year)? i love butterflies. i have since i was a kid. i used to know quite a bit about them but i’ve forgotten most of it. i’ve never known which plants attract butterflies. TIA (thanks in advance), e — For info about this service, see http://anon.twwells.com/help/ or e-mail:

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What mdove said and also – bergamot, beebalm, monarda (all names for the same thing) – hummingbirds love those, too. Beauty. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – snip Thanks for reading. I like this talking about birds – they make me happy when nothing else does. me, too.  I like butterflies, too.  I used to have 2 butterfly gardens, but surrendered them to the weeds during a couple years of depression. One is totally gone, but the other is probably salvageable.  Maybe I’ll go out there one of these days and try to start rehabilitating it. do you have any recommendations for plants (for next year)? i love butterflies. i have since i was a kid. i used to know quite a bit about them but i’ve forgotten most of it. i’ve never known which plants attract butterflies. TIA (thanks in advance), e — For info about this service, see http://anon.twwells.com/help/ or e-mail:

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snip do you have any recommendations for plants [that attract butterflies]? Well, keep in mind that I’m no expert, and it probably depends on where you live.  You might try some verbena, buddleia (butterfly bush), pentas,

what are pentas? do they take much water? asters, and even marigolds.  In my yard I have blue porterweed, pentas, day lilies, passion flower, lantana, and some other stuff I can’t identify.  

i have day lilies. they grow well, although the ones in shade don’t flower much. is passion flower the same as passion vine (Passifloraceae)? thanks for the recommendations. i’ll try some of them. I know monarchs like milkweed, but I’ve never seen it growing around here, and haven’t tried planting any.  Your local cooperative extension could probably provide you with information about what to plant for butterflies that are inhabitants of your area.

thanks. e — For info about this service, see http://anon.twwells.com/help/ or e-mail:

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Question:

Norm is not a finish carpenter. I disagree. What about the nail gun, stain-over-smeared-glue, and poly? (I had forgotten the glue-smearing tactic in my 1st post.)

I guess we have different definitions of finish carpenter. In my book it’s the person who works (generally) inside the building putting up baseboard, door & window trim, panelling and molding. And often installing cabinets and built-ins. You will generally see these guys wielding a nail gun, rubbing glue on with a finger tip, and filling holes with putty. There’s usually a second person who slaps on the stain and poly. So what is that that makes Norm _not_ a finish carpenter? The fact that he crams a week-long project into 1/2 hour isn’t relevant. He’s not doing it real time like Roy Underhill and we all know that (right kids?). Bzzzzt! Ask these Normites’ wives. (and probably 1/3 of them)

Well, that’s why Ron Popeil is rich, isn’t it. pays attention now. In the early days he was content with a simple half-blind dovetail jig for all his drawers. He still doesn’t hand-cut them but at least he appreciates the aesthetics of the hand-cut look given by the leigh jig. I must have missed the episode titled "How to fake hand-cut dovies using only $26,745.13 worth of powah tools." (Of course, I’ve only seen 3 or 4 episodes, plus 5-10 minutes of half a dozen others.) I liked him on TOH much better.

Oh come on. The Leigh Dovetail jig costs $370 and the router is around $150. Hardly excessive. And there’s an endorsement there. He’s shown a couple of other dovetail jigs through the years–such as the Keller–but they only ever made one appearance. The Leigh keeps coming back. So I’d say he’s gotten his money’s worth and it makes me think that it’s probably worth spending the money on. Despite what many people think, outside of a few really obvious examples (the 15" planer, the wide belt sander, and the resaw) the NYW really isn’t overly equipped. It probably seems so to the person just starting out, but I’ve seen many hobbyist shops with as much or more equipment in them. –Rick

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This poll has been done here several times. It is about 50/50. I don’t use them either. — CW KC7NOD – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Frank, please! Let’s take a poll…how many honestly use a splitter and/or guard? I use neither. Jay in NH

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Fountain) crayoned this: Sometimes Norm Confuses Me

As well he should. 1/2 hour to do a 2-week project? That’s TV! Repeat after me: Norm is a carpenter. Norm is not a finish carpenter. Norm is not a fine woodworker. Proof of these three facts are shown on every episode: Norm nails, stains, and poly’s the shit out of every project. Don’t get me wrong. I don’t dislike Norm (only some of his practices), I do like many of his projects, and he surely knows more about carpentry than I do. We just have different opinions on what is important in a finished product and how to get there. (Especially nowadays. Out here in LoCal, I couldn’t afford to RUN the multi-megawatt tools he uses.) All about old planes: Electrolysis: http://members.xoom.com/nlindsey/restoration/Restoration.htm Flattening: http://members.aol.com/tomprice/galootp/Quicklap.html Dating Stanley iron planes: http://peta.ee.cornell.edu/~jay/ww/planes/ Stanley (now Patrick’s) Blood and Gore http://www.supertool.com/index.htm — the Stanley Bible The best wood reference site in the entire world is: http://www.internetwoodworking.com/w5/wood.html/

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<<<)))Well, I might use a low quality plywood thinking that with wet and muddy <<<)))stuff being stored inside the seat, it will be inexpensive and easy to <<<)))replace as needed. Yeah, that, or he could be showing that there is a use for all types of wood, and that you can use different materials if it suits you.

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Frank, please! Let’s take a poll…how many honestly use a splitter and/or guard? I use neither. Jay in NH

A.  I always use the splitter when making through cuts. B.  I use the guard (I purchased a Uniguard when I bought my Unisaw) whenever possible.  There are times that it won’t work for various cuts, but the Uniguard is very good about being flipped out of the way and then flipped back in place.

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Sometimes Norm Confuses Me As well he should. 1/2 hour to do a 2-week project? That’s TV! Repeat after me: Norm is a carpenter.

I agree. Norm is not a finish carpenter.

I disagree. Norm is not a fine woodworker.

He’s working on it. Proof of these three facts are shown on every episode: Norm nails, stains, and poly’s the shit out of every project.

Part of the ‘problem’, methinks, is that he approaches his projects just like a professional finish carpenter would rather than luxuriating in the process like a hobbyist or a fine woodworker would. Ever watched a finish carpenter roll through a new house? Air brad nailers and putty are his friend! Outside real high-end houses, no one can afford to take the time to make sliding dovetails to hold moldings and hand-cut dovetails on all four corners of a drawer box. Measure, cut, bam, bam, and move on. Gotta trim out 8 windows and two doors before going home today. The fact that he crams a week-long project into 1/2 hour isn’t relevant. He’s not doing it real time like Roy Underhill and we all know that (right kids?). Most projecte appear to take two days, but how many of us actually put in an 8-hour day in the shop? However, I sometimes wish they’d be a little less honest and at least portray him more like the rest of us. For example–he’s a busy guy and probably really needs the time saved by that wide belt sander. But since 99% of us don’t own one, why don’t they show him hand sanding (or scraping!) the first panel and then he can run the rest through the dust hog off camera. Same with that huge re-saw. It was cool the first time he used it, but on subsequent shows where he needed to resaw a board he should show us a different technique. If it’s slower and more laborious, so what. He starts it on camera and then uses the resaw to finish the rest. The fact is, he could be more like Dean and Robin who have a whole crew of carpenters, plumbers and electricians who actually do most of the work they pretend to. That’s how _they_ finish a 3 month project in three half-hour episodes! Then he wouldn’t feel as remote from us normal joes. That said, I’ve watched the show from the beginning and credit it, more than anything else, with getting me back into woodworking. He _has_ grown considerably as a woodworker since those early days. If anything, in his design sense. He was guilty of some cross-grain glue-ups early on, but he pays attention now. In the early days he was content with a simple half-blind dovetail jig for all his drawers. He still doesn’t hand-cut them but at least he appreciates the aesthetics of the hand-cut look given by the leigh jig. And a few projects he really has made an effort to build it with no brads in visible places. I think he did fairly well on the jewelry box. –Rick

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Norm stopped being a woodworker some time ago, now he sells tools (or creates the "need" to buy them – your choice). Having said that, Norm builds stuff his way, I build stuff mine and you, undoubtedly, build stuff your way. Moral – never ask the donkey what the horse is doing – ask the horse instead. — Jim Warman

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sometimes Norm Confuses Me

Response:

Norm is not a finish carpenter. I disagree.

What about the nail gun, stain-over-smeared-glue, and poly? (I had forgotten the glue-smearing tactic in my 1st post.) Norm is not a fine woodworker. He’s working on it.

Perhaps. (see Q above) The fact that he crams a week-long project into 1/2 hour isn’t relevant. He’s not doing it real time like Roy Underhill and we all know that (right kids?).

Bzzzzt! Ask these Normites’ wives. (and probably 1/3 of them) That said, I’ve watched the show from the beginning and credit it, more than anything else, with getting me back into woodworking. He _has_ grown considerably as a woodworker since those early days. If anything, in his

True. Haven’t we all grown in that time? design sense. He was guilty of some cross-grain glue-ups early on, but he pays attention now. In the early days he was content with a simple half-blind dovetail jig for all his drawers. He still doesn’t hand-cut them but at least he appreciates the aesthetics of the hand-cut look given by the leigh jig.

I must have missed the episode titled "How to fake hand-cut dovies using only $26,745.13 worth of powah tools." (Of course, I’ve only seen 3 or 4 episodes, plus 5-10 minutes of half a dozen others.) I liked him on TOH much better. And a few projects he really has made an effort to build it with no brads in visible places. I think he did fairly well on the jewelry box.

1 Atta Boy, going out toward NYWville tonight.  I’ll apologize for offending someone…right after they apologize for being easily offended. http://www.diversify.com  Inoffensive Web Design

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Frank, please! Let’s take a poll…how many honestly use a splitter and/or guard? I use neither. Jay in NH

As a long time lurker on here, to help or hinder the pol, add my vote please. I use neither, Jay BobK

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Frank, please! Let’s take a poll…how many honestly use a splitter and/or guard? I use neither. Jay in NH

I usually keep a "RipStraight" attachment on my fence.  If I’ll be ripping a number of boards I’ll put the splitter back on the saw.  If I looked hard enough I probably could find my blade guard. — Jack Novak Buffalo, NY – USA

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I thought it was funny on todays episode on HGTV while he was building a sailboat and was using bronze screws….all of a sudden he says he ran outa them and will now use stainless steel ones..I mean I know stainless is fine for boats but..but..but—-Norm run outa something in middle of project??????? ps I tape them too..by the way he’s still my hero.. ;0} Steve

That was a pretty startling comment.  He operates out of a 40 gazzilion dollar shop with the best of everything and he ran out of screws???? By the way, was there actually any wood in that sailboat or was it made entirely of epoxy? -JR

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By the way, was there actually any wood in that sailboat or was it made entirely of epoxy?

Well, there’s some wood in between the epoxy plies. Mike.

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[snide mode on] " and a couple of brads to hold it while the glue dries" [snide off] Actually, I do enjoy Norm’s shows.  There is always an idea lurking about and ready to be learned.  Entertainment? Sure.  Why is Norm carried in more places than Roy. Wince?  Sure.  Whenever Norm gets his glue machine and brad nailer out and whenever Roy gets something sharp out.  Lots of good stuff out there.     mahalo,     jo4hn – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – By the way, was there actually any wood in that sailboat or was it made entirely of epoxy? Well, there’s some wood in between the epoxy plies. Mike.

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While being no Sam Maloof,

Who’s Sam Maloof?

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When Norm is hosting his show, he’s more than just Carpenter Guy — he’s Carpenter Guy Hosting a Do-It-Mostly-Yourself TV Show. I’ve often wondered why he uses different methods to achieve the same result from show to show, and I figured it’s probably to show the viewers — who might not watch every show — varying ways of completing the project. Pocket screws seem more of a pain the the butt than biscuits (for example), but it PC is going to give the show their $700 pocket-screw-cutter-thingie, they probably want him to use it every once in a while. Mark

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Actually, Norms use of epoxy in the sailboat is pretty much standard. A lot of cedar strip canoes and wooden drift boats (flyfishing related) are finished inside and out with West System epoxies…it completely waterproofs and strengthens the boat and wood. And driftboats have sometimes sport UHMW bottoms as well as aluminum chines. Best Regards, Philski – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – By the way, was there actually any wood in that sailboat or was it made entirely of epoxy? Well, there’s some wood in between the epoxy plies. Mike.

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I thought it was funny on todays episode on HGTV while he was building a sailboat and was using bronze screws….all of a sudden he says he ran outa them and will now use stainless steel ones..I mean I know stainless is fine for boats but..but..but—-Norm run outa something in middle of project??????? ps I tape them too..by the way he’s still my hero.. ;0} Steve – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sometimes Norm Confuses Me I’ll prefix this with the comment that, when it comes down to it, Norm has far more experience and skill than I have (I’m a hobbiest/hack working my way up to carpenter, hoping to be woodworker at some point). I have taped most of his shows and review them if there was something I wanted to understand better. Some may debate the statement that he is a "Fine Woodworker" or a snip 1. Using a piece of (BC, CD even) plywood for the bottom of the chair "box".  My god.  Norm even comments that it isn’t all that authentic but that he’ll "just paint it".  He spends an entire show recreating an "authentic" piece, including panels, and then shortcuts the bottom.  I know the underside won’t likely be seen, but the inside of the box will often.  There is not advantage of plywood here as it is a loose panel.  Cost wouldn’t be a real issue compared to the overall project.  It almost appears that he ran out of wood or something.  At least he could have used a better piece of ply.  From the large knots it looked like a scrap from the Home Depot CDX pile.

snip snip

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Jerry, You don’t really seem to be "confused" at all! You have used this opportunity to air your two-cents worth. (As well you can). But I am not of the opinion that you have to follow _every_method_ that Norm provides in his presentations. While being no Sam Maloof, Normski does provide some needed entertainment on the Boob Toob where a plethora of Award Shows seem to rule the roost. He must have had to get rid of that last sheet of CDX – but you can always substitute honest-to-goodness wood in it’s place if you so desire. Then you could always change the channel too huh? Here I am responding to a drive-by……. Philski – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sometimes Norm Confuses Me I’ll prefix this with the comment that, when it comes down to it, Norm has far more experience and skill than I have (I’m a hobbiest/hack working my way up to carpenter, hoping to be woodworker at some point). I have taped most of his shows and review them if there was something I wanted to understand better. Some may debate the statement that he is a "Fine Woodworker" or a "Craftsman", but when it comes down to it he does make some nice pieces given the restrictions of his show (time, sponsors, and audience). But, he often does things I find, well, confusing. I was watching his recent episode of the "Hall Seat". http://www.newyankee.com/GetProduct2.cgi?0103 This episode raised a number of questions and refreshed my thoughts on old issues.  Perhaps some would care to comment on my confusion here.  Most are probably design issues. 1. Using a piece of (BC, CD even) plywood for the bottom of the chair "box".  My god.  Norm even comments that it isn’t all that authentic but that he’ll "just paint it".  He spends an entire show recreating an "authentic" piece, including panels, and then shortcuts the bottom.  I know the underside won’t likely be seen, but the inside of the box will often.  There is not advantage of plywood here as it is a loose panel.  Cost wouldn’t be a real issue compared to the overall project.  It almost appears that he ran out of wood or something.  At least he could have used a better piece of ply.  From the large knots it looked like a scrap from the Home Depot CDX pile. I think this was a shortcut that didn’t make ANY sense. 2. His under-arm reinforcement.  He makes a good case for why this needed to be done.  No argument there and he makes good use of it to discuss the use of an inlay set for the router.  Unfortunately, his choice of color and shape were utilitarian to say the least. Couldn’t he have used some ply and then a thin strip of veneer? Perhaps some hardwood plywood?  Both would have gone towards making the reinforcement look less like an afterthought.  On a more stylish note, perhaps using something like a bowtie shape would have looked more traditional than the rectangle he used. The shape is probably being picky, but a better choice in wood tone would be more appropriate (IMHO). 3. The mirror frame.  I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt here a bit as I’m sure he has to keep the tool companies happy. But still, he did the entire piece with M&T joinery, then at the last second pops in with the pocket screws.  I noticed he covered them with another (ugly) sheet of plywood and the whole piece will be against the wall, but it seems a bit gratuitous and diminishes a piece that (with #1 fixed) would have been of heirloom quality (potentially). Finally, one that wasn’t in the Hall Seat show, but still always amazes me. 4. Norm has clamps up the wazzo (something not to be debated), and we all know he sleeps with his brad nailer, but using brads to hold solid wood edging on plywood rather than simply clamping them seems foolish (for non-production shops).  I mean really.  I’m putting the edging on to give a finished appearance to the piece. Why do I want to go and put holes in it which have to be patched and which will show up in the final piece?  Am I missing something other than speed (which isn’t an issue for his show) or product promotion (heck, perhaps Bessey would like to sell some more K-bodies ? Jerry — Jerry Fountain          | Laboratory for Fluid Mechanics, Chaos, and Mixing (847) 491-3555 (Office) | Department of Chemical Engineering (847) 491-3728 (FAX)    | 2145 Sheridan Road, Evanston, IL  60208

Response:

Frank, please! Let’s take a poll…how many honestly use a splitter and/or guard? I use neither.

I use neither, either!  And for the past 27 years my digits have remained all mine. In fact the worst cuts have been from chisels, and I don’t think they make a guard for those beasties, do they?  :-)

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jerry, You don’t really seem to be "confused" at all! You have used this opportunity to air your two-cents worth. (As well you can). But I am not of the opinion that you have to follow _every_method_ that Norm provides in his presentations. While being no Sam Maloof, Normski does provide some needed entertainment on the Boob Toob where a plethora of Award Shows seem to rule the roost. He must have had to get rid of that last sheet of CDX – but you can always substitute honest-to-goodness wood in it’s place if you so desire. Then you could always change the channel too huh? Here I am responding to a drive-by……. Nope.  I wasn’t trolling.  I guess my word choice of being "confused" related to "just when you think Norm is going the traditional way", he turns 180 degrees and does something like insert a piece of (poor quality) plywood.

Well, I might use a low quality plywood thinking that with wet and muddy stuff being stored inside the seat, it will be inexpensive and easy to replace as needed.

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Frank, please! Let’s take a poll…how many honestly use a splitter and/or guard? I use neither. Jay in NH

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I give credit to Norm getting the wife and I into woodworking. I agree that we cringe when he nails moldings and at the lack of splitter or saw guard.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jerry, You don’t really seem to be "confused" at all! You have used this opportunity to air your two-cents worth. (As well you can). But I am not of the opinion that you have to follow _every_method_ that Norm provides in his presentations. While being no Sam Maloof, Normski does provide some needed entertainment on the Boob Toob where a plethora of Award Shows seem to rule the roost. He must have had to get rid of that last sheet of CDX – but you can always substitute honest-to-goodness wood in it’s place if you so desire. Then you could always change the channel too huh? Here I am responding to a drive-by…….

Nope.  I wasn’t trolling.  I guess my word choice of being "confused" related to "just when you think Norm is going the traditional way", he turns 180 degrees and does something like insert a piece of (poor quality) plywood. I wasn’t trying to get into a discussion of how to follow Norms plans, but rather inquire if anyone could see *what* might have been going through his mind when he did something.  Considering that he does the pieces twice, once for the prototype and once more for video, you would think that some thought and reasoning went into the decisions. Still, I enjoy watching the show, and I still learn things from it.  I guess I’ve learned enough to start questioning things  I didn’t even mention that his explanation for how he was glueing only 2/3 of the panels made any sense, plus the fact that some of his tenons seemed awfully long (but it was quarter-sawn).  Wood movement is something I’m trying to study more (beyond the basic rules that is). Jerry — Jerry Fountain          | Laboratory for Fluid Mechanics, Chaos, and Mixing (847) 491-3555 (Office) | Department of Chemical Engineering (847) 491-3728 (FAX)    | 2145 Sheridan Road, Evanston, IL  60208

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Sometimes Norm Confuses Me I’ll prefix this with the comment that, when it comes down to it, Norm has far more experience and skill than I have (I’m a hobbiest/hack working my way up to carpenter, hoping to be woodworker at some point). I have taped most of his shows and review them if there was something I wanted to understand better. Some may debate the statement that he is a "Fine Woodworker" or a "Craftsman", but when it comes down to it he does make some nice pieces given the restrictions of his show (time, sponsors, and audience). But, he often does things I find, well, confusing. I was watching his recent episode of the "Hall Seat". http://www.newyankee.com/GetProduct2.cgi?0103 This episode raised a number of questions and refreshed my thoughts on old issues.  Perhaps some would care to comment on my confusion here.  Most are probably design issues. 1. Using a piece of (BC, CD even) plywood for the bottom of the chair "box".  My god.  Norm even comments that it isn’t all that authentic but that he’ll "just paint it".  He spends an entire show recreating an "authentic" piece, including panels, and then shortcuts the bottom.  I know the underside won’t likely be seen, but the inside of the box will often.  There is not advantage of plywood here as it is a loose panel.  Cost wouldn’t be a real issue compared to the overall project.  It almost appears that he ran out of wood or something.  At least he could have used a better piece of ply.  From the large knots it looked like a scrap from the Home Depot CDX pile. I think this was a shortcut that didn’t make ANY sense. 2. His under-arm reinforcement.  He makes a good case for why this needed to be done.  No argument there and he makes good use of it to discuss the use of an inlay set for the router.  Unfortunately, his choice of color and shape were utilitarian to say the least. Couldn’t he have used some ply and then a thin strip of veneer? Perhaps some hardwood plywood?  Both would have gone towards making the reinforcement look less like an afterthought.  On a more stylish note, perhaps using something like a bowtie shape would have looked more traditional than the rectangle he used. The shape is probably being picky, but a better choice in wood tone would be more appropriate (IMHO). 3. The mirror frame.  I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt here a bit as I’m sure he has to keep the tool companies happy. But still, he did the entire piece with M&T joinery, then at the last second pops in with the pocket screws.  I noticed he covered them with another (ugly) sheet of plywood and the whole piece will be against the wall, but it seems a bit gratuitous and diminishes a piece that (with #1 fixed) would have been of heirloom quality (potentially). Finally, one that wasn’t in the Hall Seat show, but still always amazes me. 4. Norm has clamps up the wazzo (something not to be debated), and we all know he sleeps with his brad nailer, but using brads to hold solid wood edging on plywood rather than simply clamping them seems foolish (for non-production shops).  I mean really.  I’m putting the edging on to give a finished appearance to the piece. Why do I want to go and put holes in it which have to be patched and which will show up in the final piece?  Am I missing something other than speed (which isn’t an issue for his show) or product promotion (heck, perhaps Bessey would like to sell some more K-bodies ? Jerry — Jerry Fountain          | Laboratory for Fluid Mechanics, Chaos, and Mixing (847) 491-3555 (Office) | Department of Chemical Engineering (847) 491-3728 (FAX)    | 2145 Sheridan Road, Evanston, IL  60208

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Question:

Michael writes: This drag would surely have an equivalent effect upon a fly fished with a piece of split shot 2 feet up the tippet? Is this drag the same one you are talking about?

But it is effected less by it.  Like I’ve said, I used to use weighted flies to get my intended lure to the bottom (simply because using split shot or any weight on the leader was illegal in Maine).  However, using the same lure and the same set up, but using a split shot instead of the weighted nymph, the same effect is accomplished (getting the lure down in the water column), but the drag is considerably less.  With this method, I have observed an unweighted lure tumbling on the bottom not unlike the natural.  This is the ideal that I strive for in every cast.  Do I get it perfect each time?  No.  Nor do I always get a nice drag-free drift with a dry.  But I catch more fish with the split shot method than I do with the weighted nymph (Czech) method.  BTW, I seldom use more than one fly.  If you have the *right* fly, it isn’t necessary.  <g Dave LaCourse Pirate and Bottom Dweller

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Hiya Dave,  please refer back to my previous post and tell me if I understand your split shot method.  Forgive me if I am wrong,  but it would appear to me at least that you didn’t read all my post.  I think I have the jist of the method you speak of,  but would appreciate it if you’d confirm either way.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Michael writes: This drag would surely have an equivalent effect upon a fly fished with a piece of split shot 2 feet up the tippet? Is this drag the same one you are talking about? But it is effected less by it.  Like I’ve said, I used to use weighted flies to get my intended lure to the bottom (simply because using split shot or any weight on the leader was illegal in Maine).  However, using the same lure and the same set up, but using a split shot instead of the weighted nymph, the same effect is accomplished (getting the lure down in the water column), but the drag is considerably less.  With this method, I have observed an unweighted lure tumbling on the bottom not unlike the natural.  This is the ideal that I strive for in every cast.  Do I get it perfect each time?  No.  Nor do I always get a nice drag-free drift with a dry.  But I catch more fish with the split shot method than I do with the weighted nymph (Czech) method.  BTW, I seldom use more than one fly.  If you have the *right* fly, it isn’t necessary. <g Dave LaCourse Pirate and Bottom Dweller

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Snip Michael, my experience with super weighted flies is to use them to get the *real* lure down.  The only problem is, they have a lot of drag.  Nymph fishing is just like surface fishing in this regard — you do not want drag.  My way is to use split shot (weight according to how deep/fast moving the water is) about 2 feet above an unweighted nymph.  While I have taken lots of fish with beadhead nymphs, using the split shot is better than using a super weighted fly.  JMO

I assume that the drag that you speak of is the actual dressing of the fly? Obviously the split shot, round and smooth, has little to impart upon the surrounding water.  The copper PT nymphs that I use also are quite "streamlined", and don’t seem to have much drag, or resistance to the water. That is why I like them a lot,  as you can quite effectively get them to the right depth and location even in the tricky waters. However, the drag that you speak of,  you also relate to the "dry fly drag". To me, dry fly drag is the movement of the fly over the surface of the water, brought about by the line "bellying", as cross currents pull on the line.  It is possible to get bad drag when casting directly upstream, particularly in pool tails where the outflow rapids pull (push) on the line, and cause the fly to skate over the water’s surface.  Of course,  this "drag" will be applied to a sunken fly too,   it causes the nymph to travel quite quickly through the water.  This drag would surely have an equivalent effect upon a fly fished with a piece of split shot 2 feet up the tippet? Is this drag the same one you are talking about? I personally have never used split shot,  neither have I used indicators, nor even the dry fly dropper that is said to be a great indicator.  (Whilst keen sight persists, I shall always prefer the simplicity of the greased leader and the single chosen fly.)  The stream that I favour to fish is very overgrown,  and is difficult to fish in a lot of places even with a 7 footer (I just got a 6 footer and really counting the days to next April) and one fly on a 9 ft leader to 2lb tippet.  Although I’ve never tried the split shot,  I will still believe that for me at least, the single Sawyer copper PT nymph & greased leader is the best option that I know of.  That being said,  I will always like to check out new techniques,  and hence my interest on this matter. I’m wondering though if there is something about the split shot that has a good effect upon the fly.  I imagine that the split shot sinks lower than the fly,  creating a V profile in the leader.  Pulling on the fly line will not immdiately make the fly rise,  as the flyline is connected first to the weight of the split shot.  The split shot is trying to pull the fly down as well as the leader and flyline.  That means that there is not a straight line between flyline and fly,  there is a positive bend,  exactly at the spot that the split shot occupies.  Pulling on the fly line will not be directly proportional with imparted fly movement,  not until the bend has been pulled out. Obviously,  as the drag is getting very pronounced,  the V profile will be reduced to eventually a flat line, and the split shot and the fly will be racing along at equal speeds and directions through the water as the dragging flyline rips it along.  At this point,  mends in the line will be required to reduce the flyline pull,  and allow the V profile to form once more.  If the angler is diligent with mending duty,  then the effect of drag can be kept at bay from the fly at least,  the split shot acting as a delayer to the drag. Mmm,  in fact I think I can imagine exactly what you are referring to about the split shot being a drag moderator:  am I right?

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Michael, yours is a very good description of how I’ve always assumed that a split shot (or a heavily weighted fly) mitigates the drag on an unweighted fly below it.  I completely gave up on split shot some time ago in favor of a bead head or other weighted fly to get another, usually much smaller, fly down.  I started doing this when I began fishing some rivers here in Oregon that allow multiple-fly rigs but do not allow "any added weight" applied to the leader or line.  (Folks quickly learned how to get around this rule!).  The bonus is that although most fish take the fly on the point, sometimes one (usually larger than the norm) will take the anchor, which never happens, of course, with split shot.  The draw-back is that it’s harder and more time consuming to adjust the position of the anchor fly along the length of the leader.  One option is to use a fly with a very big eye and attached it with a sort of loop-to-loop connection to the fly, as one does with the new yarn indicators that have a little plastics loop on them. JR – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – beginning snipped I’m wondering though if there is something about the split shot that has a good effect upon the fly.  I imagine that the split shot sinks lower than the fly,  creating a V profile in the leader.  Pulling on the fly line will not immdiately make the fly rise,  as the flyline is connected first to the weight of the split shot.  The split shot is trying to pull the fly down as well as the leader and flyline.  That means that there is not a straight line between flyline and fly,  there is a positive bend,  exactly at the spot that the split shot occupies.  Pulling on the fly line will not be directly proportional with imparted fly movement,  not until the bend has been pulled out. Obviously,  as the drag is getting very pronounced,  the V profile will be reduced to eventually a flat line, and the split shot and the fly will be racing along at equal speeds and directions through the water as the dragging flyline rips it along.  At this point,  mends in the line will be required to reduce the flyline pull,  and allow the V profile to form once more.  If the angler is diligent with mending duty,  then the effect of drag can be kept at bay from the fly at least,  the split shot acting as a delayer to the drag. Mmm,  in fact I think I can imagine exactly what you are referring to about the split shot being a drag moderator:  am I right?

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I’ve only ever read about the upstream Czech nymphing technique.  I have of course seen pictures of the weighty flies  (tungsten and all).  I frequently use copper & 5 pheasant-tail fibre nymphs (Sawyer),  I think that these copper nymphs (or singular to be more accurate,  as I only use one fly at a time)  sink quite quickly upstream on my small Yorks. stream.    Apart from appearance,  is there much difference between these flies:  copper & low surface area nymph Vs the tungsten but relatively fluffy Czech nymph? [snip] Is there any real bonus  with 3 or even 2 on a stream?  Surely they must be a burden at times; one accurate fly of the right selection and method employed, applied  to the point of attention is perhaps all that is required?

The Czech nymphs that I were given seem to be less fluffy than American Nymphs, but to answer your question, the damn things go down faster than a Times Square whore. As to the relative merits of copper vs tungsten, I think tungsten being denser helps thing sink quicker but quicker is not always better. Presentation and mending to reduce drag count for more in my little book. As to bonus of 3 flies vs 2 or one, that’s just the method. some folks have problems with it, I know I did at first but with practice things seem to work OK most of the time but I’ve been known to get a wind knot while tying on a new fly. — Wayne Knight Expert in creating tailing loops and windknots Otherwise Fishless in Kansas

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Michael writes: I’ve only ever read about the upstream Czech nymphing technique.  I have of course seen pictures of the weighty flies  (tungsten and all).  I frequently use copper & 5 pheasant-tail fibre nymphs  (Sawyer),  I think that these copper nymphs (or singular to be more accurate,  as I only use one fly at a time)  sink quite quickly  upstream on my small Yorks. stream.    Apart from appearance,  is there much difference between these flies:  copper & low surface area nymph Vs the tungsten but relatively fluffy Czech nymph? The metal used in the PT nymph is significantly lower in density than the tungsten CN.  In fact I seem to remember something about tungsten being much denser than lead.  However,  the PT nymph is of much lesser surface area (guaged by my eye,  i.e. hunch mode on) than the CN,  woolly body and all. The surface area would impart drag on the sinking fly,  and slow its decent if increased.  Which sinks the quicker?  Is there anything to be gained from copper PT  to CN? Is 3 better than 1?  I use the one fly on my stream,  (though boat fishing on Scottish lochs use 3 or even  4 at times) primarily because that it is my focus on the river.  On the stream I am selecting exact spots,  and only 1 fly can fill this spot.  On the loch/lake things are not quite so exact (particularly if you are sharing the boat with a pair (inevitable trio) of boozers). Is there any real bonus  with 3 or even 2 on a stream?  Surely they must be a burden at times; one accurate fly of the right selection and method employed, applied  to the point of attention is perhaps all that is required? Regards, Michael.

Michael, my experience with super weighted flies is to use them to get the *real* lure down.  The only problem is, they have a lot of drag.  Nymph fishing is just like surface fishing in this regard — you do not want drag.  My way is to use split shot (weight according to how deep/fast moving the water is) about 2 feet above an unweighted nymph.  While I have taken lots of fish with beadhead nymphs, using the split shot is better than using a super weighted fly.  JMO Dave LaCourse Pirate and Bottom Dweller

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I’ve only ever read about the upstream Czech nymphing technique.  I have of course seen pictures of the weighty flies  (tungsten and all).  I frequently use copper & 5 pheasant-tail fibre nymphs  (Sawyer),  I think that these copper nymphs (or singular to be more accurate,  as I only use one fly at a time)  sink quite quickly  upstream on my small Yorks. stream.    Apart from appearance,  is there much difference between these flies:  copper & low surface area nymph Vs the tungsten but relatively fluffy Czech nymph? The metal used in the PT nymph is significantly lower in density than the tungsten CN.  In fact I seem to remember something about tungsten being much denser than lead.  However,  the PT nymph is of much lesser surface area (guaged by my eye,  i.e. hunch mode on) than the CN,  woolly body and all. The surface area would impart drag on the sinking fly,  and slow its decent if increased.  Which sinks the quicker?  Is there anything to be gained from copper PT  to CN? Is 3 better than 1?  I use the one fly on my stream,  (though boat fishing on Scottish lochs use 3 or even  4 at times) primarily because that it is my focus on the river.  On the stream I am selecting exact spots,  and only 1 fly can fill this spot.  On the loch/lake things are not quite so exact (particularly if you are sharing the boat with a pair (inevitable trio) of boozers). Is there any real bonus  with 3 or even 2 on a stream?  Surely they must be a burden at times; one accurate fly of the right selection and method employed, applied  to the point of attention is perhaps all that is required? Regards, Michael.

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Question:

  Going in week , anyone know what’s happening on the Madison?   TIA   Harry

buncha people, to be sure. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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  Going in week , anyone know what’s happening on the Madison?   TIA   Harry buncha people, to be sure. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

  Hi Tim   No doubt , but I’m stuck.   Harry

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   Going in week , anyone know what’s happening on the Madison?   TIA   Harry buncha people, to be sure. — TimW Halfordian Golfer   Hi Tim   No doubt , but I’m stuck.   Harry

What are the tibs of the madison ?  I bet some of the small ones are incredible… — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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  Going in week , anyone know what’s happening on the Madison?   TIA   Harry

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  Going in week , anyone know what’s happening on the Madison?   TIA   Harry

A friend down in West tells me there are some salmonflies on the Madison now, and some good fishing in the park as well….It is getting hot…around 90 degrees today…perhaps a caddis in the evening?

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  Going in week , anyone know what’s happening on the Madison?   TIA   Harry

Hi Harry As of last night it’s fishing great. A few golden stones and caddis are what I was using. Hoppers should be happing soon. Enjoy your trip. — Tight Lines ….. Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Catalog,Tips & Tricks, Fishing Reports, & NeverSink at: http://www.btsflyfishing.com

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Question:

Would like to get some info on fishing for pike, bass etc. in Alberta, Manitoba, and Sask. Places you have fished. I am from the West Coast so this is all new to me. I will be bringing my own boat and camper Thanks for your help.

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In Manitoba there are numerous spots for Pike but htere are only two GREAT musky Lakes and all you can keep is a picture. They stock them at 38". Does that tell you anything? Lots of good lakes with big Pike "Way up North" but I caught the biggest Pike of my career right in Lake of the Prairies. Lots of 48" stuff that weighs in the 30 to 35 lb range. Water is high in fertility so it makes for very large fish very early. If you have a big enough Boat and your going through Saskatchewan hit LAke Deifenbaker. You’l catch anything from Pike to Atlantic Salmon. Probably the most underated fishery in the Province and lots of good camping in a priairie environment. You’ll see more animals than you will in the far North and again the water fertility is very high. — Bob Sheedy Angling Adventures North Lake Fly Fishing On-Line Magazine Home of MASTER ANGLER Fishing Software http://www.articfire.com/arcfire/fishing.htm

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It’s nice to hear from someone who is interested in fishing in Saskatchewan. I live in North Battleford and would recommend any of the lakes in this area. There are no Bass around here, mainly Pike, Walleye, Perch and Stocked Trout. Murray Lake and Jackfish Lake are located 20 minutes North of the city, within our Provincial Park which is very beautiful. They are known for limits of 10" – 12" Perch, lots of Walleye, the largest being about 7 – 8 lbs, as well as plenty of Pike, the largest being 32 lbs. We have stocked Trout lakes such as Twin Lakes, and Picnic Lake, but the sizes caught would probably be considerably smaller than you are used to, 2 – 10 lbs. Also running through the center of the city is the beautiful Saskatchewan River, which has produced Walleye over 10 lbs, as well as Sturgeon up to and exceeding the 100 lb mark. I hope this helps, and I hope your stay in our wonderful province is a memorable one. Good Fishing!

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Question:

The show is scheduled for September 11-14. In years past, Organizers, Etc. (800 283-2754) have helped attendees with travel and lodging reservations. You might give them a call for details.

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Hello Simon: Contact the staff of the International Fly Tackle Dealer Show at: PO Box 370 Camden, ME 04843 Clay

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I am very keen to attend the Denver Fly Fishing Trade Show in September. Could someone please furnish me with details.

The organization behind the promotion of this show is Fly Rod & Reel Magazine.  Their address is:         Fly Rod & Reel              PO Box 370              Camden, Maine 04843 You can also send E-Mail from their home page at: http://flyfishers.com/fly-rod-reel.html Regards, Trent P Roberson          Rx F Fish "For Your Good Health, Fly Fish" URL=http://www.xnet.com/~rxffish

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I am very keen to attend the Denver Fly Fishing Trade Show in September. Could someone please furnish me with details.

You can write Fly Tackle Dealer Magazine at Box 370 Camden, Maine 04843. You can probably e-mail Fly Rod and Reel (same group) through their web site (sorry, don’t know the Domain Name).    -Ralph Ralph Cutter, California School of Flyfishing. http://www.flyline.com

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Question:

                            FLY FISHING BOOKS                                  FOR THE                                 SPORTSMAN * The American Sportsman Treasury, ‘71, by Knopf.  A collection of Fly Fishing and Hunting stories, with terrific art work and photos.  Chapters on fly fishing for Brown and Rainbow Trout, fly patterns that produce results, bamboo fly rods; and hunting white tail deer, woodcock, water foul, mountain sheep, grouse, etc. All written by famous authors, eg. Charles F. Waterman, Lee Wulff, Leonard M. Wright, Roderick Haig-Brown, William G. Sheldon and many others. An excellent book for the all around sportsman, and a way to reflect on the sporting heritage. * The Treasury of Angling, ‘63 by Koller.  A comprehensive history of angling, and the birth and growth of fly fishing. Chapters on angling in antiquity, early american angling, tackle, flies, entomology, Salmon, Trout, Bass, and other fresh water fish.  Terrific photos and art work.  Learn about the history of fly fishing and game fish, and gain a full sporting knowledge of the art of fly fishing. E-mail me if interested in these books, and I will e-mail cost info. JWTrout/2/11/96

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Question:

I am looking at buying (or building) a 7 foot 3wt rod and was wondering if anyone has any suggestions about rods they particularly enjoy.

Winston 7′6" 2 wt…Killer rod for small stream/small pond use, casts just beautifully…I caught a 20" rainbow on this last year and thought I was gonna die – the most fun I’ve had trout’n! /dave <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< < Digital Equipment Corp.    Alpha Server Engineering  < <           "Read this and nobody gets hurt"           < <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

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I am looking at buying (or building) a 7 foot 3wt rod and was wondering if anyone has any suggestions about rods they particularly enjoy. Thanks

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: I am looking at buying (or building) a 7 foot 3wt : rod and was wondering if anyone has any suggestions : about rods they particularly enjoy. : Thanks It’s a little off, but I just built a Sage 7′9" 3wt LL and it’s a real sweetheart.  Moderately slow action, deep flex.  It makes working with only 6 to 10 feet of line out a pleasure.  Much better on small creeks like the St. Vrain than my 9′ Sage RPL.  Have fun, I’m sure you’ll get LOTS of good suggestions.

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My favorite brookie rod is a 6 1/2 foot 3/4 wt., built on a Loomis IM-6 blank by a local rod builder (Dave Lewis – Performance Fly Rods). IMO exquisite rods don’t have to be hideously expensive or built from this year’s latest & trendiest graphite permutation. Short rods in general can be a real joy in the tight quarters of Appalachian brook trout streams.

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I am looking at buying (or building) a 7 foot 3wt rod and was wondering if anyone has any suggestions about rods they particularly enjoy.

I have a Loomis 78" 3wt GL3 rod that has a much softer action than the 9′ Loomis IMX rods that I also own and love. The GL3, a relatively low-tech composite, is delightful for small streams and gentle presentations, yet packs sufficient punch for 50 foot casts.

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 I am interested in a backpackingflyfishing trip to the Warner Mountains in north east California this summer.  I would greatly appreciate hearing from anyone who has had a successful trip there who could suggest a route and lakesstreams to fish. Thanks in advance for your help Stu    

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I am looking at buying (or building) a 7 foot 3wt rod and was wondering if anyone has any suggestions about rods they particularly enjoy. I have a Loomis 78" 3wt GL3 rod that has a much softer action than the 9′ Loomis IMX rods that I also own and love. The GL3, a relatively low-tech composite, is delightful for small streams and gentle presentations, yet packs sufficient punch for 50 foot casts.

I would add: give consideration to used or bargain glass rods eg. Phillipson, or Scott in the 7 to 7 1/2 foot range in three to five weight. Especially with the softer lighter rods in close quarters, try using a line weight heavier than called for by the rod. With short casts under 30 feet as a rule, that combination works very well. I also think the Orvis 7 1/2 foot Brook Trout model is very good for our small, Eastern Mid-Atlantic jewels. Tight Lines, — Regards, Christian — PGP fingerprint:  BC 66 2A 6C 82 8E 1C 50    18 87 67 A0 DB 7B F2 84

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   I am looking at buying (or building) a 7 foot 3wt   rod and was wondering if anyone has any suggestions   about rods they particularly enjoy.   I have a Loomis 78" 3wt GL3 rod that has a much softer action than the   9′ glass rods eg. Phillipson, or Scott in the 7 to 7 1/2 foot range in three to five weight. Especially with the softer lighter rods in close quarters, try using a line weight heavier than called for by the rod. With short casts under 30 feet as a rule, that combination works very well. I also think the Orvis 7 1/2 foot Brook Trout model is very good for our small, Eastemore but I

attach an ultralight spinning reel to the cork handle with electricians tape and use it for casting ultralight (1/64 -1/16 oz.) jigs and lures. I still like the action. — + – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - + | Disclaimer: Contents under pressure, do not | + – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - +

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o.k. here’s a cheapy but one that everyone always wants to borrow.  grf 1000 by courtland    comes in  6.5  ft.   and mine  7 ft.   3 / 4  wt.  a real sweetheart for about  $70.  very rugged with a smooth , sanded finish.  medium – slow  action  drops a # 20 midge right on the nose of a rainbow  or a # 10  damslefly nymph into the jaws of a largemouth and then hauls ‘em in. lexington, ma. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My favorite brookie rod is a 6 1/2 foot 3/4 wt., built on a Loomis IM-6 blank by a local rod builder (Dave Lewis – Performance Fly Rods). IMO exquisite rods don’t have to be hideously expensive or built from this year’s latest & trendiest graphite permutation. Short rods in general can be a real joy in the tight quarters of Appalachian brook trout streams.

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Hey, how ’bout some content in this post? You sparked my interest!

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Hey, how ’bout some content in this post? You sparked my interest!

This item sparked my interest too, so I’ll start.   I recently tried a new product for saltwater tying.  It’s colored hot glue (pink, orange, amber, green and many others available) for tying Mother of Epoxy (Glue) type bonefish and permit flies.  It is really easy to use this stuff.  Just add bead chain eyes to a saltwater hook.  Drop on a wad of hot glue, dip in water for 3-5 seconds, and it’s cool enough to mold with your hands.  If you don’t like the way the head turned out, you can dip it in very hot water and remold.   This colored hot glue is available at the craft store for aboout a tenth of the price of the fly shop (as are doll eyes and lots of other good stuff for saltwater flies). I recently went to Belize and a hot glue fly (regular tan glue) with a tuft of tan bucktail was red hot for bonefish. John Woodling Sacramento, CA

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Hey John , great post last month’s saltwater fly mag had a guy making these molds and cranking out some gorgeous deceivers…. 1. did you use a mold yourself? 2. Can you share the Namebrand and bottle size of the    stuff you are using? 3. what size hooks are you using 1/0-3/0?? 4. what do you use for Sacramento stripers? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -thanks?

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last month’s saltwater fly mag had a guy making these molds and cranking out some gorgeous deceivers…. 1. did you use a mold yourself?

That’s the beauty of hot glue, you don’t need a mold, you just mold it with your fingers.   For deceiver heads, I use epoxy.  It dries a lot clearer and harder.  You don’t need a mold, but you do need a slow rpm motor to turn these after you apply the epoxy (5 minutes) until it hardens. 2. Can you share the Namebrand and bottle size of the

   stuff you are using? I don’t recall the brand name, but they are standard size glue sticks. The fly shop also has a glue gun, and like everything else in a fly shop, it costs twice what the same thing costs in the hardware store. 3. what size hooks are you using 1/0-3/0??

For mother of glue flies for bonefish I use 4’s and 6’s 4. what do you use for Sacramento stripers?

I haven’t fished for them, but a lot of the Dan Blanton patterns are probably good. <<   John K. Woodling   < Sacramento, CA

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writes: 4. what do you use for Sacramento stripers? I haven’t fished for them, but a lot of the Dan Blanton patterns are probably good. <<   John K. Woodling   <

I’v had good luck with chartreuse patterns for clear water (like surf or fast moving tidal rivers) and yellow patterns for muddy water (like back bays). I noticed that blue and white also works in either environment, but I was using clousers, not deceivers. HighHooks-n-TightLines,       Jose

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Quoting jwoodling1 from a message in rec.outdoors.fishing.fly     2. Can you share the Namebrand and bottle size of the     stuff you are using?     I don’t recall the brand name, but they are standard size glue sticks.     The fly shop also has a glue gun, and like everything else in a fly    shop, it costs twice what the same thing costs in the hardware store. This sounded like a great idea so I stopped by the arts & crafts store on the way home.  I picked up a low temp glue gun for $3.29 and a pack of 49 glue sticks in a variety of colors for $4.49.  Will give it a try this weekend. Jim in Southern California

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This sounded like a great idea so I stopped by the arts & crafts store on the way home.  I picked up a low temp glue gun for $3.29 and a pack of 49 glue sticks in a variety of colors for $4.49.  Will give it a try this weekend. Jim in Southern California

I wrote a short piece for American Angler back in 1986 or so, about using hot glue guns for fly tying. I still use them occasionally, for big flies (like some salt water flies). But there are drawbacks. The faster the hot glue hardens (higher melting temps) the stronger the glue is, and the harder it is to use, becuase the stuff sets up so fast. Low temperature glues are easier to work with, but the damn flies melt right in you fly box on a hot day. The only practicle solution is to use high temp glues, and learn how to work very fast.   Good hardware stores (the ones that cater to tradesmen) carry a variety of hot glue sticks, with faster and slower, hotter and cooler melting temperatures. Steer clear of "clear-colored" sticks. Clear hot glue sticks were developed for florists, for obvious reasons, but clear hot glue sticks have the lowest bonding strength. —

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: Quoting jwoodling1 from a message in rec.outdoors.fishing.fly :     2. Can you share the Namebrand and bottle size of the :     stuff you are using? :     I don’t recall the brand name, but they are standard size glue sticks. :     The fly shop also has a glue gun, and like everything else in a fly :    shop, it costs twice what the same thing costs in the hardware store. : This sounded like a great idea so I stopped by the arts & crafts store on the : way home.  I picked up a low temp glue gun for $3.29 and a pack of 49 glue : sticks in a variety of colors for $4.49.  Will give it a try this weekend. So did I.   Bryan : Jim in Southern California

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