Question:

I did it! I went all the way around Manhattan in a kayak.

A well written and interesting trip report too! Thanks for sharing it with everyoneRich Before you buy.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I did it! I went all the way around Manhattan in a kayak. <… Thanks for posting this. Always nice to hear of people making use of urban and rural waterways. The "in" thing to do in these parts is to drive for hours to a crowded government recreational area, queue at portages, and scramble for campsites stopping midafternoon, for a "wilderness" paddling experience. OTOH I can paddle all day on water in or close to the city and not see another paddler. Odd, isn’t it, when most cities are sited on major waterways and 80% of the population are city dwellers? Ditto.  I think that’s NEAT!  Let’s reclaim the waterways!

"Reclaiming" implies that paddlers owned the waterways to begin with. Paddle EVERYWHERE!

I vehemently disagree with this.  I’ve been flyfishing for about 30 years and have seen a lot of good fishing rivers become poor fishing rivers.  The Battenkill river *used* to be about the most famous flyfishing river in the country.  Now there are a couple of canoe outfitters that send down so many boats that’s it’s virtually unfishable most of the day.   Just as a jetskier can spoil the day of a paddler, a paddler can spoil the day of flyfisherman trying to enjoy the river partaking in his/her obsession. John Fereira Ithaca, NY

Response:

OK, Rich. I’m going to have to drive to Manhattan from Chicago to do this with you next year!!! Seriously. Dave

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I did it! I went all the way around Manhattan in a kayak. A well written and interesting trip report too! Thanks for sharing it with everyoneRich Before you buy.

Response:

I did it! I went all the way around Manhattan in a kayak. <… Thanks for posting this. Always nice to hear of people making use of urban and rural waterways. The "in" thing to do in these parts is to drive for hours to a crowded government recreational area, queue at portages, and scramble for campsites stopping midafternoon, for a "wilderness" paddling experience. OTOH I can paddle all day on water in or close to the city and not see another paddler. Odd, isn’t it, when most cities are sited on major waterways and 80% of the population are city dwellers?

Ditto.  I think that’s NEAT!  Let’s reclaim the waterways!  Paddle EVERYWHERE!  Paddle craft are just the way to do it, too: relatively portable, don’t need a big ol’ ramp to put ‘em in, don’t need lots of depth, suited for just about any type of waters.  In Boston, we have more and more people paddling on the Charles, and the water quality is improving every year.  In Lowell MA, Zoar Outdoor teamed up with the conservation d00ds to offer rafting trips on the Concord River during the spring flows — ending the trip in a lock!  The Boston Harbor islands, now a park, get visited constantly by seayakkers.   Even the little, overbuilt Muddy River at the end of my (soon to be former) block has an impressive array of wildlife (saw a great blue heron the other day).  The more we get people using the waterways, ALL the waterways and not just the obvious recreation destinations, the more people will care about them — and care for them.   — ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::         "I would not exchange the sorrows of my heart                 for the joys of the multitude"

Response:

I did it! I went all the way around Manhattan in a kayak.

<… Thanks for posting this. Always nice to hear of people making use of urban and rural waterways. The "in" thing to do in these parts is to drive for hours to a crowded government recreational area, queue at portages, and scramble for campsites stopping midafternoon, for a "wilderness" paddling experience. OTOH I can paddle all day on water in or close to the city and not see another paddler. Odd, isn’t it, when most cities are sited on major waterways and 80% of the population are city dwellers? — National Capital FreeNet      www.ncf.ca     Ottawa’s free community network

Response:

I did it! I went all the way around Manhattan in a kayak. It was the most physically difficult feat I have accomplished. I started kayaking on June 4th and have probably kayaked 50 hours on the Hudson since then (along with another 20 in Maine) and this trip was harder than all of it put together! When I did my first "long" tour it was a 10 mile, three hour round trip to the Statue of Liberty during which I really felt challenged and afterwards felt like I had a wallet-sized knot in my right buttock for a week! At the time that may have been the most physically challenging thing I’d done. The trip around Manhattan is a 28 mile trip that should take 6-9 hours. I was assured by the guides at Manhattan Kayak Company, who have come to know me, and I them, that I was ready for the trip and it should not be that difficult. You start off going south on the Hudson, against the current from 23rd street to the lower tip of Manhattan – the Battery. After you turn the bend and head north on the East river you have a very strong current with you and can travel faster than I have ever been on a kayak. Sometimes they outrun joggers on this stretch. After going about 10 miles with this current, you stop for lunch just before turning northwest to the Harlem river. This was supposed to be the hardest stretch, not because of currents or other water conditions, but because it was supposed to be "boring". After 5 miles of Harlem you stop again at the Columbia University Boathouse for lunch. After lunch, you scoot around the northern tip of the island and turn south on the Hudson, under the George Washington Bridge and 160 blocks to home with the current at your back. Difficult, tiring and surely a challenge, but timed correctly it is a most enjoyable ride and quite an accomplishment. Then there was my trip… Take-off was scheduled for 11:00AM. I got there my traditional 1 hour early to mull around, chat a bit and fit my boat. Our guides were Bob and Bonnie. Bob is a fun guy who is really fun to paddle with. Bonnie is exceedingly nice, complimentary and also a joy to be on the water with. Around 10:45 Bob seems a bit stressed. He tells me we’d better hurry up and get going because it turns out we’d be cutting it very close if we wanted to make it to Hellgate before the tide turns. You might guess by the name, Hellgate can be somewhat difficult to paddle. As I mentioned earlier, the East river has a very strong current. If the current is fully against you it is physically impossible to paddle up the river. Hellgate is a spot where the river gets very narrow, so water is funneled through and sped up greater than the speed one could paddle. Bob said we’d have to be at Hellgate by 1:06 or we’d be "Fu–ed". Now, Hellgate is approximately 40% of the way around the island, that’s around 12 miles in two hours starting off against a pretty strong current. It didn’t look good, but if we busted our buts and made it to the East river quickly we’d get that massive push up and possibly make it. We had a strong group. There was Gary, my paddling buddy who I had to canvas for about 3 weeks to sign up for this trip. There was Donna, a paddler of three years who hadn’t made this trip. Carol, a very nice woman from Seattle who was doing this for her 50th birthday as a challenge. John, another "regular" at MKC who made this trip a month ago in less than 7 hours. And finally there was a couple from Albuquerque New Mexico named Walter and Alison. Walter was obviously experienced and Alison was in a kayak for the fifth time. They were in a double and not at all to be worried about. And of course Bob and Bonnie, our guides. Bob spends a lot of time sideways on the water. He was never one to speed along, he is more of a meanderer. Bonnie grew up in Hawaii and has probably been paddling, rowing, or at least in the water her whole life. Both Bob and Bonnie have made this trip countless times. It looked OK. It would be tight, but we could pull it off according to Bob. As soon as we pulled out of the pier I noticed a stronger current that I was used to. Bob said it would be tough, and it was. We had to stay very close to the piers to avoid the stronger current in the main channel, as well as the many many boats in the water. The down-side of paddling so close to the piers was the danger of reflecting waves coming off the walls and potentially capsizing you. There were some challenging waves due to the strong wind and high traffic. It was a beautiful day. We were paddling hard, but not hard enough. Nobody really realized how slowly we were going for a few reasons. First, it took a good amount of concentration to stay upright and close to the piers. Aslo, the current pulled our boats toward the middle of the river, so as we were chatting and getting to know each other, we had to be constantly reminded by Bob to keep close to the shore where the current was weaker. However, the closer we were, the more we had to deal with the reflection waves. I am accustomed to dealing with the waves from the wind and passing boats. All it takes is loose hips, concentration and an occasional lean or slapping of the paddle to keep upright. With the waves coming from both sides, though, the leans were a bit more precarious and the concentration required a bit more intense. While we dealt with this strong current, larger than normal waves, reflecting waves, and oh yeah a very strong wind in our faces, the group split up a bit. Bonnie and Donna were a good quarter-mile behind us and out towards the middle of the channel. They were having too harrowing a time dealing with the multi-directional waves and decided to take on the current instead. This choice only widened the gap between them and us. Things were looking grim when we pulled into a small pier near Battery Park City to let Bonnie and Donna catch up and we realized it was 12:00. We still had to round the bend around the tip of Manhattan to make it to the East River Express. Bob could only laugh and reiterate how we were "Sooo Fu–ed" It looked like we would miss the tides in our favor and have to "eddy-hop" past Roosevelt Island, where the East River is split around 59th Street and the water funneled through two thinner channels. The hard part was almost over supposedly. Unfortunately, we were still pressed for time, so we decided to press on without Bonnie and Donna and meet up with them on the other side. We rounded the bend to southern Manhattan to be greeted by the choppiest water I have ever been in, as well as the most fun. Standing waves and an undulating sea that dumped gallons of water up my sleeves into my boat, into my face and all over. It took full concentration, many slapping braces and much time to get to a small protected area just before the ferry landing. Wow! was the collective sentiment. We thought this would be a good spot to hang out and wait for Bonnie and Donna. We waited for a while and again decided to press on because we still had the currents to worry about. Hellgate was missed, but if we didn’t hurry we’d be fighting the current up the East river and it might even turn too much against us before we made it to the Harlem river, in which case it would be too late and we’d have to… I don’t know what we’d have had to do. On we paddled. We crossed the ferries and dealt with the New York Harbor’s finest mish-mash of waves, chop and wind created by the confluence of the East and Hudson Rivers for another quarter to half mile until we were finally approaching the Brooklyn Bridge. Finally, the current at our backs! I made the mistake of asking Bob how that stretch we just passed compared to the other circumnavigation he’d done and he said it was definitely the hardest start, but we were only about a fifth of the way done and he went on to describe some horror stories about thunder storms and hail encountered in the next stretch. Each circumnavigation is its own story, and this one was still being written. We were now on the East River. It was my first time paddling over here. I was really looking forward to passing under all the East River bridges. The Brooklyn, Manhattan, Williamsburg, 59th street, Tri-borough. It was really an experience looking at them from that perspective. I noticed, at this time, the lack of assistance from the river. This was the stretch where I was told I’d be moving faster than I ever had before. We were with the current, but it was starting to change. Not only did we miss out on the joyous, easy East River surge, we had to fight it tooth and nail to make it to an unwelcoming Hellgate before the full strength of the tide and current were against us. We moved over to the east side of the river and began to "eddy-hop" like we were on the Hudson only a few hours earlier. By the time we got to the 59th street bridge we were fighting a serious current. As I was approaching the bridge, I came in directly behind the eastern support. The bridge was blocking the current for me, so I didn’t have to paddle that hard. Once I got to the bridge and had to leave the friendly eddy, as soon as I paddled into the current I was unpolitely turned south and had to paddle full strength to make any progress. There was a row of little floating balls on the side of the river right next to my boat. I was paddling 3 or 4 strokes for each ball I passed, which were about 2 feet apart. Wow! again. By around 3:00 or so we were approaching Randall and Ward’s Islands. This was Hellgate territory. It is at this spot where the waters of Long Island Sound come into the East river and the Harlem river begins. I just could not believe the current we were looking at. I was sure we were done. The water was pouring into and down the East River and I just couldn’t imagine being able to paddle against it. Once we got up close and surveyed the situation it turned out that we could go a little east of the Harlem river and ferry across. As soon as I entered the current I was promptly turned 45 degrees in the opposite … read more »

Response:

Question:

I’m a newbie to fishing, but after a dozen or so trips to local lakes, I have found that I get few or no bites on bait or lures when fish are jumping.  I assume the jumping is for insects on the surface, but it’s hard to believe the fish are so selective and coordinated that they switch from one food type to another just like that.  Anyone have similar experience? and any ideas about it??

If they are feeding then why not cast a fly to them? richard

Response:

I’m a newbie to fishing, but after a dozen or so trips to local lakes, I have found that I get few or no bites on bait or lures when fish are jumping.  I assume the jumping is for insects on the surface, but it’s hard to believe the fish are so selective and coordinated that they switch from one food type to another just like that.  Anyone have similar experience? and any ideas about it?? arjay

    Since you are a newbie, don’t believe anything anyone says about this. All you need to know is ….. if the fish don’t bite on your offering yet are obviously feeding ….. change your offering.     Did you know there is a conspiracy to take all of your money.  Oh yes! Tackle manufacturers have been investing in raising and then planting fish that ignore your bait.  If you are hooked on fishing…..you will spend the rest of your life spending huge amounts of money in the never ending attempt to find what the fish like to eat.     Some day you will think you know what it is and you will tell a newbie what to do.  He will embarrass you in front of everybody when he doesn’t catch anything.         Dan in Quebec

Response:

A funny story about trout. I was fishing at the Chatfield Spillway near Denver and saw a whole spillway full of Rainbow Trout surfacing and jumping all over the place. I and three other people broke out our flyrods and used everything we had and didn’t catch anything. A game warden came by and started laughing hysterically at us. I asked him what was up and he said "it was feeding time at the hatchery." These stocker trout "beg" for food at a certain time of the day, depending upon where the sun is in the sky.  They’ll hop out of the water and just hang out.  After being in the water for a while, they stop it, but the first week it annoys the heck out of fisherman. Dan Dow

Response:

Are they jumping out of the water, clearing it.  Those are often carp, and all I can figure is they jump for joy, not feeding!  They do this a lot early in the morning If you are seeing swirls in the water rather than fish clearing it, they are probably feeding on something on the surface.  Try topwater or flies I wrote an article on my site about an experience I had.  Kept seeing fish come to the top at Lake Oconee here in GA.  Could not get them to hit.  One finally came up right at the boat and I saw it – a brown bullhead!    I caught one later on a plastic worm. Ronnie http://fishing.about.com

Response:

I’m a newbie to fishing, but after a dozen or so trips to local lakes, I have found that I get few or no bites on bait or lures when fish are jumping.  I assume the jumping is for insects on the surface, but it’s hard to believe the fish are so selective and coordinated that they switch from one food type to another just like that.  Anyone have similar experience? and any ideas about it?? arjay

–When salmon are jumping and rolling on the surface, you might as well sit back and watch the show.  The biters are on the bottom of the stream or river, not up on top. Sharp Hooks, Pat Holdzit Fishing Products Inc. http://www.holdzit.com Before you buy.

Response:

I’m a newbie to fishing, but after a dozen or so trips to local lakes, I have found that I get few or no bites on bait or lures when fish are jumping.  I assume the jumping is for insects on the surface, but it’s hard to believe the fish are so selective and coordinated that they switch from one food type to another just like that.  Anyone have similar experience? and any ideas about it?? arjay

Response:

Hi arjay, It depends.  One area (on a river) where I fish often, the Sturgeon will "go nuts" at about dusk, these are very big fish jumping out of the water like a breaching whale.  The Sturgeon jump typically has no effect on the bite of Catfish, Bass, Walleye and Crappie that are common in the area. On the other hand, if the fish you are fishing for is surfacing and you are fishing worms on the bottom, you are probably in for a long sit.  You would need to target your bait and presentation to the feeding activity of the fish.  One afternoon last week, I was at the spot mentioned above fishing crawlers on the bottom.  Some fish was feeding sporadically on the surface and I was getting no bite.  I threw out a crawler under a float, about 15" below the surface.  The float drifted with the current into the "strike zone" where the mystery fish was surfacing and the float was down.   I was on to a pretty good bass. Jumping alone can only offer you clues.  Anytime the bite is slow, you should change the presentation (possibly many times).  If the change in presentation doesn’t work, you might want to change location. As far as selectivity… could be!  Depends on the fish.  Trout will often be completely selective, but usually not this late in the season.  Next time you get to the lake, bring a grasshopper or attractor fly and a big float. Place the float about 2-3′ above the fly and use the weight on the float to cast. Good Luck! Hope this helps, Fritz

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m a newbie to fishing, but after a dozen or so trips to local lakes, I have found that I get few or no bites on bait or lures when fish are jumping.  I assume the jumping is for insects on the surface, but it’s hard to believe the fish are so selective and coordinated that they switch from one food type to another just like that.  Anyone have similar experience? and any ideas about it?? arjay

Response:

Question:

I’m starting to think that the Black Ant is a very underappreciated fly. I’ve been catching fish right and left with them lately — cutthroat, brookies, and rainbows — in both streams and lakes. I get the feeling that trout must really like the taste of ants. It’s become my "go to" fly when there’s no obvious hatch. Another thing is that the Black Ant ridiculously easy to tie, even for an all-thumbs tier like me. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

I’m starting to think that the Black Ant is a very underappreciated fly. I’ve been catching fish right and left with them lately — cutthroat, brookies, and rainbows — in both streams and lakes. I get the feeling that trout must really like the taste of ants. It’s become my "go to" fly when there’s no obvious hatch. Another thing is that the Black Ant ridiculously easy to tie, even for an all-thumbs tier like me. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

I’ve heard a story once about a trouts love of ants. I think it happened in Texas. A whole mess of ants were blown onto a lake and the trout gorged themselves on them. The toxins in the ants then killed a lot of the fish. They love em to death.

Response:

The black Ant is my numero uno summer fly, especially when nothing is hatching. I’m starting to think that the Black Ant is a very underappreciated fly. I’ve been catching fish right and left with them lately — cutthroat, brookies, and rainbows — in both streams and lakes. I get the feeling that trout must really like the taste of ants. It’s become my "go to" fly when there’s no obvious hatch. Another thing is that the Black Ant ridiculously easy to tie, even for an all-thumbs tier like me. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

– Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

A few years back, I heard that 10% of the earth’s animal biomass is ANTS! Charlie Quinton Laramie, Wyo. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m starting to think that the Black Ant is a very underappreciated fly. I’ve been catching fish right and left with them lately — cutthroat, brookies, and rainbows — in both streams and lakes. I get the feeling that trout must really like the taste of ants. It’s become my "go to" fly when there’s no obvious hatch. Another thing is that the Black Ant ridiculously easy to tie, even for an all-thumbs tier like me.

Response:

A few years back, I heard that 10% of the earth’s animal biomass is ANTS! Charlie Quinton Laramie, Wyo. On Tue, 24

and the other 90% is timbo! ba-ba-ba-bing…. waldo Ezflyfish.com http://www.ezflyfish.com BRBG http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A few years back, I heard that 10% of the earth’s animal biomass is ANTS! Charlie Quinton Laramie, Wyo. On Tue, 24 and the other 90% is timbo! ba-ba-ba-bing….

I guess that leaves the rest of us in the roundoff error. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

I guess that leaves the rest of us in the roundoff error.

…or somewhere beneath the meniscus.

Response:

I guess that leaves the rest of us in the roundoff error. …or somewhere beneath the meniscus.

I experienced a double-take last night. Espn sportscenter….one of the announcers mentions: "somethin or other ‘meniscus’ ". I dropped the book I was reading and stared at the screen in disbelief…. no more mention…mebbe I’m suffering from audio-hallucinations. btw wolfie…you gonna make it to fall ball? waldo — Ezflyfish.com http://www.ezflyfish.com BRBG http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

Response:

I agree.. last weekend, when nothing else was working, I caught goldens on an 18… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The black Ant is my numero uno summer fly, especially when nothing is hatching. I’m starting to think that the Black Ant is a very underappreciated fly. I’ve been catching fish right and left with them lately — cutthroat, brookies, and rainbows — in both streams and lakes. I get the feeling that trout must really like the taste of ants. It’s become my "go to" fly when there’s no obvious hatch. Another thing is that the Black Ant ridiculously easy to tie, even for an all-thumbs tier like me. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam) — Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

– Particle Salad/ Noom Room Studio http://home.earthlink.net/~psalad mp3 songs: http://www.mp3.com/particlesalad

Response:

…btw wolfie…you gonna make it to fall ball?

Nothing would give me greater pleasure Walt, and I am honored that this august company considers me worthy of invitation.  Unfortunately, my work schedule will probably not permit it.  I was a bit profligate with my vacation time earlier in the year and am now paying the price.

Response:

0] psalad wrote : I agree.. last weekend, when nothing else was working, I caught goldens on an : 18… Gotcha some goldens–congrats. A couple of rainbows that I killed last year on Fish Creek south of Devils Postpile had their crops chock full of those big Sierra black ants.

Many years ago I fished Beck’s Lakes up that way and killed ‘em with Blank Ants. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

0] psalad wrote : I agree.. last weekend, when nothing else was working, I caught goldens on an : 18… Gotcha some goldens–congrats. A couple of rainbows that I killed last year on Fish Creek south of Devils Postpile had their crops chock full of those big Sierra black ants. Mike — Michael McGuire                     Hewlett Packard Laboratories  (remove x’s from email if not      Palo Alto, CA 94303-0971   a spammer) Phone: (650)-857-5491              

Response:

Many years ago I fished Beck’s Lakes up that way and killed ‘em with Blank Ants.

I’m certain that there’s an easy joke in there ;^) /daytripper

Response:

Seems I recall something about "furic acid (?)" in ants that trout love like we love salt. Dave

Response:

Seems I recall something about "furic acid (?)" in ants that trout love like we love salt. Dave

Many ants use Formic acid to paralyse their prey. Any quantity of this is extremely poisonous, and will even kill small mammals and fish. Incidents of fish kills due to eating large quantities of ants have been documented. TL MC

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Seems I recall something about "furic acid (?)" in ants that trout love like we love salt. Dave Many ants use Formic acid to paralyse their prey. Any quantity of this is extremely poisonous, and will even kill small mammals and fish. Incidents of fish kills due to eating large quantities of ants have been documented.

Are you sure those incidents weren’t really due to Timbo using a black ant pattern? — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Many ants use Formic acid to paralyse their prey. Any quantity of this is extremely poisonous, and will even kill small mammals and fish. Incidents of fish kills due to eating large quantities of ants have been documented. TL MC

This opens an interesting side question.  Awhile back Mr. G brought up the scent question associated with flys.  I have watched big Browns on a small spring creek here swim up to ant patterns and bump them without taking.  Would crushed, dried ants used as a scent mask assist with the use of an ant fly.  This, of course, opens many more questions of ethics, etc.  If we douse our flys with chemicals to help them float, could, should we use scent masks and are they effective? — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Seems I recall something about "furic acid (?)" in ants that trout love like we love salt. Dave

Formic acid.  Same root as the Latin generic ‘Formica’.  Also, incidentally, the same name as the hard plastic countertop material which is presumably made from some mix including formic acid. I read somewhere that fish love ants because of the formic acid which provides a good dose of some nutrient which they otherwise find difficult to acquire.

Response:

This opens an interesting side question.  Awhile back Mr. G brought up the scent question associated with flys.  I have watched big Browns on a small spring creek here swim up to ant patterns and bump them without taking.  Would crushed, dried ants used as a scent mask assist with the use of an ant fly.  This, of course, opens many more questions of ethics, etc.  If we douse our flys with chemicals to help them float, could, should we use scent masks and are they effective?

This prompts me to bring up another quetion. I always tie on my first fly before I use any bug repellant, and after I use bug repellant I try to get it off my fingers before I retie. Does anyone else think that the scent of bug repellant might put a fish off taking a fly? — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

… Does anyone else think that the scent of bug repellant might put a fish off taking a fly?

No doubt about it in my experience. I use Cutters which has a fairly high concentration of Deet. No experience with other repellants but the fish are definitely put off by Cutters. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

I always tie on my first fly before I use any bug repellant, and after I use bug repellant I try to get it off my fingers before I retie. Does anyone else think that the scent of bug repellant might put a fish off taking a fly?

My concern with bug repellant other than the taste (if you’ve ever gotten 95% DEET in your mouth you know what I mean) would be the effect on any part of your line/leader/tippet that you might get some on.  The stuff is murder on lines. Dave If we didn’t have some bad days, they would call it ‘catching’, not ‘fishing’.

Response:

could, should we use scent masks and are they effective?

I have quit using any cement on the flies i tie, do not use chemicals to make them float and rub them in mud before i use them. I think that flies that have caught a fish are more effective than new ones…Is this using a scent?   I would say yes, but it works for me. I know people who will not fish for catfish or carp without putting mayfly scent on their flies and claim that they are much more effective when fished that way. They could be right. Big Dale

Response:

I am certain it does Royal Wulff.  I always wash my hands before touching the fly because I have noticed an improvement in the number of strikes I get.  Trout have a remarkable sense of smell. Ernie Harrison Like to make fly-fishing stuff?  See: http://users.ccnet.com/~emh/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I always tie on my first fly before I use any bug repellant, and after I use bug repellant I try to get it off my fingers before I retie. Does anyone else think that the scent of bug repellant might put a fish off taking a fly?

Response:

Pheasant tail nymphs may have the scent of crushed pheasant, but I’ve never seen a fish rise to a pheasant. CDC flies are a different chapter altogether.. Herman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Many ants use Formic acid to paralyse their prey. Any quantity of this is extremely poisonous, and will even kill small mammals and fish. Incidents of fish kills due to eating large quantities of ants have been documented. TL MC This opens an interesting side question.  Awhile back Mr. G brought up the scent question associated with flys.  I have watched big Browns on a small spring creek here swim up to ant patterns and bump them without taking.  Would crushed, dried ants used as a scent mask assist with the use of an ant fly.  This, of course, opens many more questions of ethics, etc.  If we douse our flys with chemicals to help them float, could, should we use scent masks and are they effective? — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

I always tie on my first fly before I use any bug repellant, and after I use bug repellant I try to get it off my fingers before I retie. Does anyone else think that the scent of bug repellant might put a fish off taking a fly?

Bug repellent and several other things as well, will effectively prevent you from catching a lot of fish. I no longer use anything at all after reading about a  lot of instances where this was so, and also experiencing it myself. This is most apparent when bait fishing, but night fishing for seatrout with flies is also more or less a waste of time if you get repellent or similar substances like reel oil etc on your line or flies. Even small amounts will suffice to prevent the fish from taking. Hugh Falkus and several other authors also wrote about this. One reason for the use of "smelly" baits etc is the fact that these baits "mask" any other smells, like human sweat etc, thus making the fish less wary. Some extremely sensitive fish, like carp, catfish, and eels, will not go near a bait or anything else which has certain smells on it. By the same token, some smells seem attractive to fish, so it would be reasonable to assume that a fly treated with such a substance might result in better takes. This would then be close to bait fishing though. Many Scandinavian anglers in the Baltic sea, soak their flies in herring oil or similar before use, and swear that they are much more effective because of this. I have tried this, and it works quite well, especially on Cod and Herring. As it is not usual to catch "large numbers" of seatrout in the baltic ( two or three per trip is in fact well above average usually ! ), it is difficult to say just how effective these oils are on these fish, but that they make a difference I have no doubt. One of the best ways to "clean" your hands etc, before fishing is to "wash" them in bankside mud, and then in the stream. This will often increase your catch rate if the fish are being difficult, especially last minute refusals, or nosing the fly and not taking.  It may also be that some floatants cause refusals.  On difficult waters and difficult fish I try to avoid using any floatants at all. Do not lick your fingers or put your hands in your mouth at all ,after doing the above. There are quite a few nasty diseases floating around, which may be transferred in this way. Ranging from Weil

Question:

check out www.walleyecentral.com and use the message board and chat room……all kinds of help – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have just started fishing from a boat and have a few questions. 1. How do you tell how deep your line is?  If the fish finder says that the fish are at 40 feet how do you know when your line is forty feet down? 2. What is a reasonable dept to fish without going to downriggers. 3. What are planner boards for?  How do you rig them? Thanks

Response:

We can get lines down in excess of 60 feet without the use of down riggers. The advantage of down riggers is you will have a short lead and it will take less time to bring in the fish and reset. The disadvantage to down riggers is for fish like Lake erie walleye they tend to shy away unless they are down deep because the boat traffic spooks the fish. The other disadvantage is cost. Presently we are down around 50 feet using ripcord line and 0 dispel on planar boards and you can add weight if you would like to keep leads under 200 feet. You can also try 1 dipseys and they will go to 50 feet on mono and over 70 on rip cord or braided wire. The reason we use planar boards is so we can get lines away from the boat into water where the fish have not been spooked. The other advantage is you can run upto 12 poles off the planar boards without tangling. That is enough for upto 6 people. When the weather gets rough you have to run less but you can run regular dipseys . We typically run 8 planar boards an 6 dipseys when the fish are deep and when the fish are high we run 10 planar boards and 4 dipseys. Essentially planar boards are two boards connected together so when attached to a line at front of boat several feet above the water they will pull to side of boat. this allows you to let lines out back and then attach the lines to a planar clip which is typically an alligator clip with rubber pads or you can use a shower curtain and rubber bands and wrap the rubber band around the line. The secret is to get the proper rubber band. The first couple times by some from Patco but then you can go to office supply store and buy rubber bands much less expensive in bulk. When you attach the line to the clip and to the planar board line as you let additional line out it will slide down the board line when it is just above the water stop it and then set the next line leave a 20 -30 foot space in between and then when the fish hits it will swing to back of the boat. If you use a plug or diving device like a jet dive you have to release the lure by reeling don until the line is taught and slap the handle of the pole the shock will break the rubber band if you are using ripcord or wire line with mono it is more difficult because mono tends to stretch. Then let line swing to back of boat to avoid tangles and reel in. if you are running 0 dipseys off the planar boards you must release the line from the board the same way but then real the slack and release the dipsey with a firm tug and then real right away. there are different techniues for different things you use. I hope this helps. Captain Bryce Seymour Fishing has been good to very good. The fish are moving daily in past few weeks they have moved from 12 miles out into 6 miles out in one day after a storm but then as water settled down they started moving out again. Within a few days they were at 12 miles out. The main school is off of Geneva and slightly east about 20 miles out. The captains out of Fairport have another school out west of Fairport so you can see there is not just one place to fish but most people are going off shore. I main problem has been a lot of sheep head being caught with the walleye which lowers the catches. The Fairport captains are catching between 20-40 fish but would have more if they could not have to reset lines for sheep head so often. Similar numbers out of Geneva. Watermelon is a hot color and the Geneva captains tend to use more worm harnesses while the Fairport tends to use spoons as much as possible. I have also heard of a man who was taking a floating j plug putting it on his down rigger and sending it to the bottom and then release the j-plug and about half the time he would catch a nice walleye while the plug was rising to the surface. The most prominent methods have been using 0 dipseys off ripcord off the boards. Set one side at lets say 140 , 160, 180, 200 and the other at the same but put an ounce of weight in front if you see the weighted side working more than the non weighted side then look at adding an ounce or two of weight. The advantage of this technique over wire line is you can keep the leads under 200 feet so you can catch the fish and reset faster than if your setting a line back 320 feet on wire. Ripcord is a little more forgiving than wire when raping on planar boards but can still be a nuisance if you get a good tangle. Captain Bryce Seymour http://www.chartercaptain.com/hooker/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have just started fishing from a boat and have a few questions. 1. How do you tell how deep your line is?  If the fish finder says that the fish are at 40 feet how do you know when your line is forty feet down? 2. What is a reasonable dept to fish without going to downriggers. 3. What are planner boards for?  How do you rig them? Thanks

Response:

I have just started fishing from a boat and have a few questions. 1. How do you tell how deep your line is?  If the fish finder says that the fish are at 40 feet how do you know when your line is forty feet down? 2. What is a reasonable dept to fish without going to downriggers.   3. What are planner boards for?  How do you rig them? Thanks

Response:

    Planner boards float on the surface of the water and pull your lure and line out to the side of the boat like a kite in the wind. Your lure then trails behind the planer board and swims at the depth that it was designed for and depending on it’s speed in the water, length of line out and size of the line. Instructions as how to rig them up are included with the boards.     There are devices that can be added directly to your line that will dive towards the bottom (pink lady is one). There depth depends on their size, weight, speed, type lure used, length of line used for trolling and size of the line.     If you want to troll deep without a downrigger, you can use lead core line. Use the 17 lb lead core line. The stronger lead core line has the same amount of lead in it but more nylon thread so though it is stronger (about 30 lbs) it will not sink as well. Or use steel line. I found that I could get down to about 70 feet deep with steel line without using heavy weights. Keep a record of all the setups you use when trolling and when you feel that you touch bottom, check the sonar for the depth, check your trolling speed and type of equipement used etc and mark it all down in a note book. The next time you want to fish at that particular depth with that particular lure setup you will know what to do. This is how old time experienced trollers knew where their lure was when fishing. Add the fact that they memorized the bottom structure, after a few years of snagging bottom, catching fish and watching the successful fishermen for tips, helped in their fishing success.     So if you want to fish at 40 feet, rig up a line, troll over a depth of 40 feet and see what you have to do to touch bottom. Note what you did and then use the same technique the next time you see fish suspended at 40 feet.     Becoming a good troller is more difficult and takes longer than becoming a good fly fisherman. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have just started fishing from a boat and have a few questions. 1. How do you tell how deep your line is?  If the fish finder says that the fish are at 40 feet how do you know when your line is forty feet down? 2. What is a reasonable dept to fish without going to downriggers. 3. What are planner boards for?  How do you rig them? Thanks

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    Well, don’t forget Bryce that this fellow described himself as a newbie, and I got the sense that he was tooling around his local waters out East somewhere. Thus, I figured that he was not talking about tangling with 10 lb+ bass and pike regularly, and I guess it seemed to me that a lighter rod would be easy to handle for the guy and thus more enjoyable at this stage. He did not describe his gear all that well, and I thought I’d try to steer him to something that would not require too bad an outlay of funds but which would still be suited enough so that he could get a taste of how much fun it can be with (roughly) appropriately sized gear.     Of course once we suck him more fully into the sport *that’s* when we start revealing that what he *really* needs is 4 or 5  rods. Let’s see, a light 5 wt. for small bass and a stiff 6 wt. for the heavier (and, of course, the 7 or 8 wt. for when he gets for Florida for those potbellied ones), then an 8 wt for standard pike complimented by a 9 wt. for when he gets up to No. Canada for the real torpedos, and maybe then even a 10 wt. in case he ever gets to one of those vague lakes one hears about in Scotland or the deep Yugoslav mountains where the pike look like crocodiles and….    At any rate, my advice was kinda geared to my mental picture of the poster as a "typical" new guy, who just wants some simple but non-intimidating steers, and thus I tried to keep the talk about rods, leaders, tippits, wire tippits, etc. as "clean" as possible without making him shake his head over a lengthy exegesis on the relative merits of a stiff 7 wt. as opposed to a softer 8 wt., or picking lines by reference to how many grams of its weight are in its forward 10% of length. TB

I have to say it is a bit technical. I do get into tiny technicalities often. Thinking that he is a newbie, your response was better. I do think that a 9wt is a bit better but it is just your preference. Bryce

Response:

Gee Bryce, sounds like you’re worried one of those fish might escape the freezer:^). Was that intended for a little sarcasm or are you trying to say my harvesting is wrong? I can deal with both. BryceC

Don’t see the need for such heavy artillery for bass and an occaisional (read not monster) pike. Just sayin’ with the rod and terminal tackle  you describe and a serious hook set, most of those bass will be comin’ one hop into the cooler.

Response:

Gee Bryce, sounds like you’re worried one of those fish might escape the freezer:^).

Was that intended for a little sarcasm or are you trying to say my harvesting is wrong? I can deal with both. BryceC

Response:

 Thus, if you wanted a rig you could reasonably use for both bass and pike I think a moderate to stiff action, 9 foot long 7 weight rod could serve you very well. Rig with bass or "pike" taper line size 7 of course.

With that combo plus a sinking leader such as the type made by Airflow you should be able to cover most pike and large mouth situations.  For smallies if your fishing a large lake you may need a full sinking line  or long sinking tip if you are fishing over 15′ deep. John Hughes Norflok, VA

Response:

 Thus, if you wanted a rig you could reasonably use for both bass and pike I think a moderate to stiff action, 9 foot long 7 weight rod could serve you very well. Rig with bass or "pike" taper line size 7 of course.

I disagree. For bass and pike, I would use an 8 or 9 wt 9′ fast action rod. I agree on the line, get a bass taper. The difference between a bass line and a trout line is the length of the belly. A WF bass line may have a belly of only 25 feet while WF trout may be 40′ you can use tapered leaders. For pike,use an 7′ leader that ends in 12 or 14 lbs test with a 1′ piece of 40 lb hard mono as a bite gaurd. instead of the hard mono, you can use looped bite gaurds. Orvis has some good ones. For bass, omit the bite gaurd. A good reel is necessary. Have 200 yards of 30lb backing. You need disk drag. A good selection of flies include dahlburg divers, poppers, large fur streamers like zonkers, poppers, standard baitfish imitating streamers, and poppers. That will get you started. hope it helps. BryceC

Response:

 Thus, if you wanted a rig you could reasonably use for both bass and pike I think a moderate to stiff action, 9 foot long 7 weight rod could serve you very well. Rig with bass or "pike" taper line size 7 of course. I disagree. For bass and pike, I would use an 8 or 9 wt 9′ fast action rod

.<snip.  A good reel is necessary. Have 200 yards of 30lb backing. You need disk drag .<snip BryceC

Gee Bryce, sounds like you’re worried one of those fish might escape the freezer:^).

Response:

In response to a fellow describing himself as a "newbie" asking about  Thus, if you wanted a rig you could reasonably use for both bass and pike I think a moderate to stiff action, 9 foot long 7 weight rod could serve you very well. Rig with bass or "pike" taper line size 7 of course….

I disagree. For bass and pike, I would use an 8 or 9 wt 9′ fast action rod…. (SNIP)

        Well, don’t forget Bryce that this fellow described himself as a newbie, and I got the sense that he was tooling around his local waters out East somewhere. Thus, I figured that he was not talking about tangling with 10 lb+ bass and pike regularly, and I guess it seemed to me that a lighter rod would be easy to handle for the guy and thus more enjoyable at this stage. He did not describe his gear all that well, and I thought I’d try to steer him to something that would not require too bad an outlay of funds but which would still be suited enough so that he could get a taste of how much fun it can be with (roughly) appropriately sized gear.          Of course once we suck him more fully into the sport *that’s* when we start revealing that what he *really* needs is 4 or 5  rods. Let’s see, a light 5 wt. for small bass and a stiff 6 wt. for the heavier (and, of course, the 7 or 8 wt. for when he gets for Florida for those potbellied ones), then an 8 wt for standard pike complimented by a 9 wt. for when he gets up to No. Canada for the real torpedos, and maybe then even a 10 wt. in case he ever gets to one of those vague lakes one hears about in Scotland or the deep Yugoslav mountains where the pike look like crocodiles and….         At any rate, my advice was kinda geared to my mental picture of the poster as a "typical" new guy, who just wants some simple but non-intimidating steers, and thus I tried to keep the talk about rods, leaders, tippits, wire tippits, etc. as "clean" as possible without making him shake his head over a lengthy exegesis on the relative merits of a stiff 7 wt. as opposed to a softer 8 wt., or picking lines by reference to how many grams of its weight are in its forward 10% of length. TB

Response:

I think I have the knots straight, but on the weekend a guy said I need a shooting line. What is that? I also need some fly advice. I will be buying a fly tieing book but so far I’ve had no luck in finding one with bass flies. I love bass. I’ve only ever caught one on my fly rod using a little white popper (styraphome with square front and feather out the back). I want to catch more. What length & weight of tippet (the mono that ties to my fly) do I need? I would be greatfull for any suggestions, tips or whatever. Anything to get me another bass on my line. I’ve also tried for pike with no luck. Used streamers (I think that’s what they are called). They are long with lots of hair and a big hook and stay on the surface. What a bugger to cast. Is this fly the right one to be using?

Response:

John:         I don’t think you need a "shooting" line, not as that term has traditionally been used at least (also called a "shooting head") with all the modern regular fly lines out there today.         A "shooting" line/head traditionally was a very heavy short piece of flyline that attached to mono on a flyrod and, it’s my understanding, was (and perhaps still is) used for stuff like surfcasting to really get your lure out there. Never very heavily used as I understood it, and very much a specialty thing. Might still be used by some in some instances, but for bass and pike there are many many lines now on the market that will get you all the distance you need with the heavy bugs and stuff you need to throw for these. Check out Cortland’s lines for instance, they have "Bass Taper" lines, and even a "Pike and Muskie" line.         Used to be that fly lines basically came in three basic configurations: Level, tapered, and weight-forward. Level lines of course were a holdover from the old days when technology simply did not allow making a good quality taper on a line. I suppose they are not all that bad. A tapered line has, of course, a taper so that the line gets thinner and lighter at the end where the leader attaches. It allows a more delicate presentation of your fly. A weight-forward taper is reversed, it gets heavier towards the end so as to allow you to more easily throw heavier flies because, of course, what you are *really* throwing in fly casting is not the fly but only the loop formed by your cast, and so the heavier fly you throw the more this interferes with throwing that loop and the heavier the loop is the better, right? A "bass" or "pike" taper is just an exaggerated form of a weight-forward line. For pike I think most folks would say an 8 or 9 weight rod and line is just fine, and will handle almost any pike you can imagine. A 7 weight rig is a tad light for pike if you are really tying into big ones, but it can be done. For bass, I sense that a 7 weight rod/line is pretty prevalent, though lots of guys who know they ain’t going to catch any 10 pounders go with 6 or 5 weight setups to have a bit more fun with smaller, more prevalent fish.         Thus, if you wanted a rig you could reasonably use for both bass and pike I think a moderate to stiff action, 9 foot long 7 weight rod could serve you very well. Rig with bass or "pike" taper line size 7 of course.         As to leaders, you don’t need much length for either fish. For the most part a leader exists so as to separate the potentially scary fly line from your lure so as to not spook your quarry, right? Bass and pike are not very spooky, and that’s good because it’s also easier to throw the kind of lures they like with short leaders. Many pre-made 6 foot tapered knotless leaders are made specifically for bass. They work nice without knots because they don’t collect weeds in the knots. As to the size to get

Question:

Can anyone suggest an inexpensive rod and reel for salt water fly fishing. Line weight, tippets, etc. No Orvis recommendations please.

Response:

Can anyone suggest an inexpensive rod and reel for salt water fly fishing. Line weight, tippets, etc. No Orvis recommendations please.

Yea.  A St. Croix 9 ft. 8 wt., Lamson Model 3, Dacron backing (20#), and a WF8F line.  Use tough leader material. So.. what do you have against Orvis?  I think a lot of their stuff is has a good price/performance ratio and the local salesguys have been very helpful even though I don’t spend big bucks there. Andy Schreckenghost

Response:

Paul Ruff writes: Can anyone suggest an inexpensive rod and reel for salt water fly

fishing. Line weight, tippets, etc. No Orvis recommendations please.

Paul, Look for a so called fast action  (more tip than whole rod bend)… as you will need to be able to cast 80 feet plus to do well in salt water.  It is true you can get some casts in under 50 feet by stalking….. and have, but tarpon, bonefish and especially permit are spooky on the flats and require extra long casts to reach.  A fast tip action will help this.  In addition, practice 5 to 10 minutes a day for 3 to 4 weeks to strengthen the specific shoulder and arm muscles you will use….. makes a big difference after fishing…Also use the very best salt water line you can afford….. more important than the rod.   I have not used other than Orvis, Sage and Scott and all are not

inexpensive…. so I will pass on a specific recommendation of a rod…. I have seen and cast in a yard the St. Croix series and they look promising…. but have not fished them. have fun Alan E. Hoover Anglers’ Rest Powhatan, Va        *the trout teach many, lessons*

Response:

Question:

We are headed off to Vermont in a few days to check out the flyfishing scene up there. We’ll be camping in the Rutland area and hitting all the streams around that area. Of course, we’ll also make at least one stop Orvis while we are there. Anybody have anything to share about what streams are good right now? This is going to be my first time ever in the New England area, so it’s all new to me. — Jon Porter http://www.Netwalk.com/~jporter/Backpage.htm

Response:

Jon, You might try the New Haven and Middlebury Rivers in Bristol and Middlebury.  I haven’t been there this year yet, but I understand they are fishing well. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

Response:

I was on the Battenkill at the weekend. Water temp was 58-60. Sporadic Hendriksons, no risers though. Might be a bit early yet, but I was talking to the F&W guy and he said there had been feeding fish over the past few days. I think it is worth a shot this weekend. You have to see that hatch in action as those big fly lie thick on the surface of backwaters. Another river worth trying is the Mettawee, about 5 miles west of Manchester. There are public access spots off the highway. This has a nice head of browns, brookies and rainbows. Finally as you head north on route 7, there is Otter Creek paralleling the road most of the way. Again some public access spots, but as this river is heavily stocked expect these points to be busy. Hike up or downstream. Otter Creek has good hatches and holds some beauties (my best is 16" brookie). Sorry I have no up to date stream reports, but I am confident you’ll catch fish assuming the rivers are in good condition. Gary

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We are headed off to Vermont in a few days to check out the flyfishing scene up there. We’ll be camping in the Rutland area and hitting all the streams around that area. Of course, we’ll also make at least one stop Orvis while we are there. Anybody have anything to share about what streams are good right now? This is going to be my first time ever in the New England area, so it’s all new to me. — Jon Porter http://www.Netwalk.com/~jporter/Backpage.htm

Response:

yesterday, I said:

      in general all the streams are down to fishable levels. I should know better than to spout stuff like that.  No sooner had I finished saying this than the skies opened up, the mighty deluge began, and the NWS started issuing flash flood warnings all over the place.  In 12 hours the New Haven River (my home stream) went from its normal 400 cfs to 5500 cfs.  :-( Now it’s back down to about 1400 cfs, but it still looks like chocolate milk. Should be back to normal in a couple days, though. Cheers, — Dave "the jinx" Guertin http://caddis.middlebury.edu/trout/

Response:

    Jon We are headed off to Vermont in a few days to check out the     Jon flyfishing scene up there. We’ll be camping in the Rutland     Jon area and hitting all the streams around that area. Jon, There are a number of streams in the Rutland area worth checking out. I can’t comment on how they’re fishing right now, but in general all the streams are down to fishable levels.  A couple weeks ago when I was last out, the water was clear but still extremely cold and fishing was slow.  By now things should be picking up considerably. The Mettawee is not too far from Rutland, and is usually excellent. Upper Otter Creek is probably worth checking out, too.  Across the mountains, the White and Black Rivers are also close and very good. Check out my Trout Streams of Vermont page (http://caddis.middlebury.edu/trout/) for a guide to all the streams in the area.  Not much in the way of descriptions yet, but there are maps, and it’s nice to see what rivers are where. Cheers, — Dave Guertin http://caddis.middlebury.edu/trout/

Response:

We are headed off to Vermont in a few days to check out the flyfishing scene up there. We’ll be camping in the Rutland area and hitting all the streams around that area. Of course, we’ll also make at least one stop Orvis while we are there. Anybody have anything to share about what streams are good right now? This is going to be my first time ever in the New England area, so it’s all new to me.

Jon, I have read the other posts folks have put up to help you, but I really would suggest streams less well-known.  Two of these are the Furnace Brook and Castleton River.  Both of these smaller streams will most certainly be running clear and fishable.  For the most part, the other streams suggested are running very high and are muddy at best.  There was flooding  in both the CT River Valley and Otter Valley last night.  If you have any specific questions, I would be happy to help. James Ehlers, Editor Vermont Outdoors Magazine 2 Church Street Burlington, VT 05401 (802) 860-0003 Fax: (802) 860-0005 http://www.vermontoutdoors.com

Response:

The ‘Kill was 58-60 this early??? Am I missing something, or is this a little warm for this time of the year? Hopefully we’re not looking at temps like last summer again!!! Alex – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was on the Battenkill at the weekend. Water temp was 58-60. Sporadic Hendriksons, no risers though. Might be a bit early yet, but I was talking to the F&W guy and he said there had been feeding fish over the past few days. I think it is worth a shot this weekend. You have to see that hatch in action as those big fly lie thick on the surface of backwaters. Another river worth trying is the Mettawee, about 5 miles west of Manchester. There are public access spots off the highway. This has a nice head of browns, brookies and rainbows. Finally as you head north on route 7, there is Otter Creek paralleling the road most of the way. Again some public access spots, but as this river is heavily stocked expect these points to be busy. Hike up or downstream. Otter Creek has good hatches and holds some beauties (my best is 16" brookie). Sorry I have no up to date stream reports, but I am confident you’ll catch fish assuming the rivers are in good condition. Gary We are headed off to Vermont in a few days to check out the flyfishing scene up there. We’ll be camping in the Rutland area and hitting all the streams around that area. Of course, we’ll also make at least one stop Orvis while we are there. Anybody have anything to share about what streams are good right now? This is going to be my first time ever in the New England area, so it’s all new to me. — Jon Porter http://www.Netwalk.com/~jporter/Backpage.htm

Response:

Joe, Trout season ends Oct 27.  Caddis pupa and larva are always good choices on VT streams.  It is tough to say what exactly will be coming off that far in advance, especially this year with our water levels very high and temps cool.  Typically, tricos, isonychias and pseudocloeon are hatching during that window.  E -mail closer to your trip for more specific conditions. James Ehlers Uncle Jammer’s Guide Service (#2298) If you would like more info on my service including western style fly fishing drift boat trips, send me your postal address and I’ll send you my brochure. Cheers, James

Response:

I am planning one or two trips to Vermont this fall. I will stay at Sugarbush. My ???? are ….#1 When does the season end? Can I plan a Columbus Day trip. Also,(#2) Has the fall fishing got going by Sept 20- would a late Sept. trip be worth while? #3 Can anybody suggest what flies to use? I am planning to try caddis flies and a variety of terrestials. joe hardman TIA

Response:

Question:

Before the present day method of line nomenclature (e.g. WT5, DT6…etc..) there was a different way to describe line weights and types. Does anyone have details on the old system? I run across old lines and rods and would like to know exactly what I am looking at.

Response:

Bruce Richards from Scientific Anglers has written a short book on Modern Fly Lines as part of Lefty Kreh’s Little Library of Fly Fishing.  It has a biref section (pp. 32-37) on standardization of fly line weights, including a translation table. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Before the present day method of line nomenclature (e.g. WT5, DT6…etc..) there was a different way to describe line weights and types. Does anyone have details on the old system? I run across old lines and rods and would like to know exactly what I am looking at.

Response:

Try McClaines Fishing Encyclopedia, I think he has a run down on this subject. Phil

Response:

Question:

I have an upcoming business trip to Ann Arbor, MI (May 22-26) and am wondering whether to bring the rod…..   Can anybody on the net suggest some nice trout waters within a 2 hours radius of Ann Arbor?  (Thanks, but the Au Sable is too far away, some other time perhaps) Perhaps also a Ann Arbor fly shop? If I get some suggestions, I’d stay an extra day…. Please email, thanks, -PWM Nat’l Center for Atmos Research    voice:  (303) 497-1293 Scientific Computing Division     Consulting Office

Response:

Fly-sishing for trout is out if you are looking to fish in a two hour radius of Ann Arbor.   If you want to fly-fish for Bass in the huron River, call MacGregor’s out doors on Mainstreet (an Orvis shop) and ask for Mac Richardson. He and his son know where to fish for small mouth on the Huron.   GaryLarry

Response:

Question:

If you are talking about regular woven bodies?  You tie your two flosses in at the bend in the hook and simple tie a series of single over hand knots.  Always tie in the same pattern left over right or right over left and you will wind up with light on top or bottom.  Pick the pattern you want and go with it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone have tying instructions for Davey Wotton’s Polish Wooven Caddis patterns? I saw some in a shop the other day for sales. Deadly looking bugs, but 6 – 8 flys at $24 – ouch! I was told that his pattern was recently provided in an magazine published in the U.K. I unfortunately can’t identify the publication. There was an article in a recent issue (either Dec. or Jan.) of Flyfisherman that described a technique for making woven bodied nymphs using two different colors of floss.  The article described some nymphs using a light and dark shade of heavy brown floss.  I had some olive and yellow floss so I tried a few.  I ended up creating some really nice looking green rockworm nymphs The process for creating the body is fairly time consuming when compared to a dubbed body so I assume that has something to do with cost.   I’m not sure if this was actually for Davey Wotton’s Polish Wooven Caddis but the instructions had a "key" step for starting the weave at the beginning that is supposed to make it easier.  Unfortunately the text had a typo in it.  It had you start with one color of floss in your left hand.  Then is said to put the other color in you left hand and I’m sure that one of those "lefts" was suppose to be a "right" but it was unclear how to figure it out from the rest of the text. — John Fereira "Guru of Miscellany" Pleasanton, CA "Ask me about my vow of silence."

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<Does anyone have tying instructions for Davey Wotton’s Polish Wooven Caddis patterns? Davy is going to be at the Midwest Fly Show Jan 6,7, and 8th in Westmont, IL 400 E. Ogden Ave.  He will be tying all three days and I am sure he will be more than happy to answer any questions you have in regards to the Polish Woven Nymph.  He did not originate this pattern but he ties them as well or better than the original.  If you want more info on the Midest Fly Show call me @ 1-800-328-9753 or E mail.                                                           Marcos

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : Does anyone have tying instructions for Davey Wotton’s Polish Wooven : Caddis patterns? I saw some in a shop the other day for sales. Deadly : looking bugs, but 6 – 8 flys at $24 – ouch! I was told that his pattern : was recently provided in an magazine published in the U.K. I : unfortunately can’t identify the publication. : Any and all help would be appreciated. Well B, it was the Sept/Oct 94 issue of Fly-Fishing and Fly-TYing. They certainly look good and aren’t that difficult to tie once you’ve done a few. The description is quite lengthy but if you can find anything on a SHUTTLE weave it should get you started. Some points I’ve noticed while fiddling with them:    - a correctly proportioned, smoothly tapered underbody is req’d    - you need a widish gape hook.    - surprisingly little lead is req’d – smoothish body sinks well.    - rayon flosses are slippery to use but can be managed    - wool is good    - Don’t neglect peacock herl    - use wool on size 6 hooks to practice    - leave materials in on the spool (don’t cut off lengths) it helps      with handling and tensioning. OB PATTERN    Wet beatle/nymph –    hook: Kamasan B175 Heavy traditional – size 10/12 mash barb.    thread: black    rib: fine copper wire with red tinge.    underbody: fine lead wire to suit application, build up nicely    tapered UB with thread AFTER tying in flosses,herls rib.    Body: woven – 3 peacock herl strands in rope with thread on top    the bottom being an orange floss heavy.    Head: BIG – BLACK and lacquered.    TIP – leave the herl rope and bobbin connected it helps with    maintaining the right tension    It is representative of some beetles we have about at the moment    and is very moorish to the fish (Browns). Have fun steve

Not to drop names, but I will be seeing Davy this weekend and would be pleased to obtain any additional info on this fly. E-Mail me at: am not sure if my net provider has a local #.

Response:

Does anyone have tying instructions for Davey Wotton’s Polish Wooven Caddis patterns? I saw some in a shop the other day for sales. Deadly looking bugs, but 6 – 8 flys at $24 – ouch! I was told that his pattern was recently provided in an magazine published in the U.K. I unfortunately can’t identify the publication. Any and all help would be appreciated.

Response:

Does anyone have tying instructions for Davey Wotton’s Polish Wooven Caddis patterns? I saw some in a shop the other day for sales. Deadly looking bugs, but 6 – 8 flys at $24 – ouch! I was told that his pattern was recently provided in an magazine published in the U.K. I unfortunately can’t identify the publication.

There was an article in a recent issue (either Dec. or Jan.) of Flyfisherman that described a technique for making woven bodied nymphs using two different colors of floss.  The article described some nymphs using a light and dark shade of heavy brown floss.  I had some olive and yellow floss so I tried a few.  I ended up creating some really nice looking green rockworm nymphs The process for creating the body is fairly time consuming when compared to a dubbed body so I assume that has something to do with cost.   I’m not sure if this was actually for Davey Wotton’s Polish Wooven Caddis but the instructions had a "key" step for starting the weave at the beginning that is supposed to make it easier.  Unfortunately the text had a typo in it.  It had you start with one color of floss in your left hand.  Then is said to put the other color in you left hand and I’m sure that one of those "lefts" was suppose to be a "right" but it was unclear how to figure it out from the rest of the text. — John Fereira "Guru of Miscellany" Pleasanton, CA "Ask me about my vow of silence."

Response:

: Does anyone have tying instructions for Davey Wotton’s Polish Wooven : Caddis patterns? I saw some in a shop the other day for sales. Deadly : looking bugs, but 6 – 8 flys at $24 – ouch! I was told that his pattern : was recently provided in an magazine published in the U.K. I : unfortunately can’t identify the publication. : Any and all help would be appreciated. Well B, it was the Sept/Oct 94 issue of Fly-Fishing and Fly-TYing. They certainly look good and aren’t that difficult to tie once you’ve done a few. The description is quite lengthy but if you can find anything on a SHUTTLE weave it should get you started. Some points I’ve noticed while fiddling with them:         – a correctly proportioned, smoothly tapered underbody is req’d         – you need a widish gape hook.         – surprisingly little lead is req’d – smoothish body sinks well.         – rayon flosses are slippery to use but can be managed         – wool is good         – Don’t neglect peacock herl         – use wool on size 6 hooks to practice         – leave materials in on the spool (don’t cut off lengths) it helps           with handling and tensioning. OB PATTERN         Wet beatle/nymph –         hook: Kamasan B175 Heavy traditional – size 10/12 mash barb.         thread: black         rib: fine copper wire with red tinge.         underbody: fine lead wire to suit application, build up nicely         tapered UB with thread AFTER tying in flosses,herls rib.         Body: woven – 3 peacock herl strands in rope with thread on top         the bottom being an orange floss heavy.         Head: BIG – BLACK and lacquered.         TIP – leave the herl rope and bobbin connected it helps with         maintaining the right tension         It is representative of some beetles we have about at the moment         and is very moorish to the fish (Browns). Have fun steve

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