Question:

says… <snip TL MC ( asking for a friend!).

Any Dick or Willie will do? Running & ducking, Herman

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I had been getting spammed with about 65-75 junk emails per day.  I tried to unsubscribe from their lists but that seemed to only waste my time and increase the amount of spam.  So this week I have been using the program called "MailWasher."  Download it from CNET or mailwasher.net.  It is free, you can check the headers on your email server before downloading it, and you can mark emails to be bounced back to the sender. Clicking the Bounce box on a message sends a fake "address not found" message to the address that the message originated from. This reduces the possibility of more spam e-mail coming from this address.  I am down to about 10-15 spams per day.

Thanks, Dave. I downloaded this and have it in place. Remarkably easy to install and use. Almost as soon as I was done, I received mail from a spammer. Tim c’mon, spam me NOW sukkas

Response:

Anybody else being spammed per e-mail with this? You have been selected to receive this email because of your interest in fly tying or fly fishing.  Flytiers.com is one of the most extensive online stores  ( Rest snipped). Just wondering. TL MC

Response:

says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anybody else being spammed per e-mail with this? You have been selected to receive this email because of your interest in fly tying or fly fishing.  Flytiers.com is one of the most extensive online stores  ( Rest snipped). Just wondering. TL MC Got it! Makes You feel like one of the chosen few, doesn

Question:

  thanks ope. jeff

        and thanks to you, jeffy, for a highly literate series of reports. wayno

Response:

The fine gentleman from Greenville, NC neglected to mention that he caught somewhere in the neighborhood of a thousand trout, albeit many were the size of one’s index finger.  First time I ever heard a man cuss when catchin’ fish, but one does tire of catchin’ those little beggars I guess.  I didn’t have the problem of catchin’ that Jeff had, as I kept tyin’ on flys the size of an Albatross, not to mention I ain’t that good at catchin’ anything but a cold. Like all the other members of ROFF that I have fished with, Jeff is as fine an individual as a person can hope to meet and fish with.  I did charge Jeff my usual guide fee, but ended up losing money after having to pay him for the ride back to my truck at the bottom of the mountain. A camping trip on this section of water would really pay off.   As it is imperative to move along at a good pace in order to reach the Greentown Trail before dark, it is difficult to pay as much attention to many of the nice pools as is really necessary to catch the big’uns. Thank you Jeff for the invitation! Op

Response:

Dare I ask, how much for the negatives and all extant prints ? As they say, if you have to ask, you can’t afford it…<g — Charlie…

priceless <g ww

Response:

Dare I ask, how much for the negatives and all extant prints ?

As they say, if you have to ask, you can’t afford it…<g — Charlie…

Response:

        …went fishing with opie on sunday 22nd.  For those who have never fished with him, let me simply say if you like hiking great distances and fishing remote locations, but are unable to carry enough food, water, gear, etc., he’s the fellow to take along.  the lad can carry more stuff than wal-mart.  he’s also right good company and don’t hawg the fishin holes.  we fished his favorite stream, on a stretch I had never been on before.  i now have a new favorite stream in this area. The section we fished runs through a deep gorge with fabulous rock outcroppings and cliffs abutting the stream. sections of the stream are treacherous…sliding around a rockface with the necessary aid of a cable and clambering/rappelling up a falls are required skills. my fear of heights and balance was seriously tested. after a mile or so hike up from a campground, we fished maybe a mile or two of wild trout water and exited on a trail that erodes weak souls and keeps most poachers at bay.  it was as fine a day fishing as i’ve ever had.  thanks ope. jeff

Response:

even fortenberry now admits to having

fished over stockers in other than backwoods environs.

Yeah, but did he *catch* any?  And even more importantly, if he did, did he *keep* any? <g

Response:

even fortenberry now admits to having fished over stockers in other than backwoods environs. I have pictures<g.

Dare I ask, how much for the negatives and all extant prints ? — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

wayno’s story – your story. wayno’s story – your story. wayno’s story – your story. wayno’s story – your story. wayno’s story – your story. shit, I can’t make up my mind who’s position I’d rather be in. I think I gotta go with Wayno.   You can always catch another stocker, but a natural-bred beauty is a rare thing indeed.

Absolutely beautiful!      :)

Response:

… even fortenberry now admits to having fished over stockers in other than backwoods environs. …

Ah shit, just 2 days late with the blackmail payment and the heartless bastard posts THIS. — Ken Fortenberry- but I didn’t enjoy it – honest

Response:

even fortenberry now admits to having fished over stockers in other than backwoods environs.

I have pictures<g. — Charlie…

Response:

wayno’s story – your story. wayno’s story – your story. wayno’s story – your story. wayno’s story – your story. wayno’s story – your story. shit, I can’t make up my mind who’s position I’d rather be in.

I think I gotta go with Wayno.   You can always catch another stocker, but a natural-bred beauty is a rare thing indeed. Joe F.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – .WHAM!  an 18" rainbow beauty hit an #18 olive paradun.  3 weight rod, 7x tippet, and a big fish…with me full of beer.  it doesn’t get much better. [snip] wayno’s story – your story. wayno’s story – your story. wayno’s story – your story. wayno’s story – your story. wayno’s story – your story. shit, I can’t make up my mind who’s position I’d rather be in. Peter (need some more nits?)

    if you could see a picture of her from 1978, the dilemma you suggest would never cross your mind.     in fact, if you saw her this morning… wayno, who will still take some nits, too.

Response:

wally said something about bringing a gun next time, but i allowed as how that was a bit severe, and perhaps he could just hang his old waders from a tree.  

[snip] jeff

You don’t call that *severe*?  I’d rather take my chances with the gun. Peter

Response:

.WHAM!  an 18" rainbow beauty hit an #18 olive paradun.  3 weight rod, 7x tippet, and a big fish…with me full of beer.  it doesn’t get much better.

[snip] wayno’s story – your story.   wayno’s story – your story.   wayno’s story – your story.   wayno’s story – your story.   wayno’s story – your story.   shit, I can’t make up my mind who’s position I’d rather be in. Peter (need some more nits?)

Response:

the days i did…

        "you’ve done well to keep your hair, pilgrim…" wayno, just watchin the boy get better all the time

Response:

the days i did… [excellent report(s) snipped] got in at about 9:30 pm.  rachel was not happy.  anyone know a valkyrie named gail hutzler roberts?  … if so, you’ll understand.

You mean that guy is *married*? I’m sorry, Jeffy, but I don’t believe that for a second. –Steve (but I still undertand, believe me!!)

Response:

…stained the logs on 2 sides of the cabin….

In the interest of preserving what little decorum remains in this newsgroup I feel compelled to point out that your urinary habits are NOT a fit topic for discussion here! Aside from that, nice report Jeff.  Thanks.      

Response:

the days i did… [excellent report(s) snipped] got in at about 9:30 pm.  rachel was not happy.  anyone know a valkyrie named gail hutzler roberts?  … if so, you’ll understand. You mean that guy is *married*? I’m sorry, Jeffy, but I don’t believe that for a second. –Steve (but I still undertand, believe me!!)

was, zimbo, was.  though hooked deeply, jim spat it.  the scars linger, and he ain’t bit since.  if ever there was a punishment from hell, ghr was it.  course, some say jim was a fittin subject… jeff

Response:

(2)     …the watauga is one of those rivers you love to hate.  it too is a delayed harvest stream.  it’s too close to the road/highway.  it suffers too many people clambering about.  it has lots of big fish. it’s masturbation.  you know…not the real thing.  but, hey, it’ll do in a pinch. …you guys will just have to fess up.  you know you do it, too. even fortenberry now admits to having fished over stockers in other than backwoods environs. i have a friend in the video-movie store business.  he wanted to learn a bit about flyfishing.  Having little or nothing to offer him as instruction, and lacking the patience and intelligence of a teacher, i took him and a cooler of beer to the watauga. he’s a fairly stout guy, and watchin him wade had the entertainment value of an elephant on ice. he decided he’d just observe.  i decided he’d save me the trips to the cooler for refreshments. after the third or fourth beer, he decided he’d bring the cooler down to the stream.  he ain’t too slow.   fished the last of the peter charles #24 nits (damn, i’m gonna miss those little bastards) and caught several 10" brook trout.  after about 15 fish, the catchin turned off for about an hour and a half.  the beer drinkin continued uninterrupted. just as i was getting the notion it might be time to go…yeah, the beer was running out…WHAM!  an 18" rainbow beauty hit an #18 olive paradun.  3 weight rod, 7x tippet, and a big fish…with me full of beer.  it doesn’t get much better.  the rainbow leaped a foot or more above the water’s surface several times and fought hard in several runs. when it finally tired enough to be brought in, i lifted him from the water for my friend to see the coloring.  if this was a stocked fish…and, it surely was…it was as remarkable in coloring as any in the wild.  dark back, silvery/white sides with black dots, scarlet-tinge on the gill plate, and a vivid red/pink stripe.  nice damn fish, stocker or not. drank the last beer in celebration of a good fish.  my friend, toasting our final bottles of brew, said…’oh, now i think i understand why you like this so much".  i doubt he truly understood…but maybe next time i won’t feel the need to bring any beer.  …or, who am i kidding, maybe not as much beer anyway.   3.      …fishin with opie… -next installment-

Response:

i’ve missed a few days, and it’s the end of my vacation at the cabin on elk creek.  since the last entry, i’ve fished the n. mills with waldo, the watauga alone and with a non-fishing friend, and upper creek with opie.   the days i didn’t fish…stained the logs on 2 sides of the cabin, vegged out, and wife’s birthday (her 10th year of turning 39). the days i did…         the n. mills river, a delayed harvest stream, is located near asheville in the Pisgah National Forest.  it’s a 1.5 hour drive from boone on a good traffic day. it was not a good traffic day. waldo and i left at dark-o’clock in the morning. we started fishing at about 10 am.  because he’d caught a huge brook trout near the first campground bridge, wally insisted we begin there.  this is a popular stream in proximity to a lot of people (too damn close to civilization).  the state folks dump a lot of fish in the stream to keep the population entertained. even on a weekday, there were too many people fishing the lower sections to suit us, so we’d pull out a walk farther up the stream. on the lower stretch, waldo started out with a #14 something or other (one of the most popular flies among the great unwashed in the tarheel state), and i tied on the surefire, catchem if they’ll be caught, #16 parachute adams.  in a channeled slough of fast water, i had the first hook-up. a nice 12" rainbow.  in the pool ahead of us, fish were rising everywhere.  a couple of guys were fishing down toward us, so we hurried into position to stop their descent.  wally said something about bringing a gun next time, but i allowed as how that was a bit severe, and perhaps he could just hang his old waders from a tree.  anyway, the fish were not taking the flies we had on.  waldo, ever the optimist, stuck with his.  i changed over to a #24 peter charles special.  after i landed my third fish, wally switched to a midge and we proceeded to catch a handful of the witless stockers.  it was fun.  feeling the press of too many folks, we headed upstream.  the n. mills flows through a camping area and then makes a sharp right turn and goes back into the forest.  it’s a fairly level stream with a good trail beside it.  plenty of nice water, with some deeper holes around small ledges and falls.  it was a beautiful day to be in the woods.  the nc mountains are magnificent when the trees are ablaze with their fall colors. we fished upstream for about a mile, catching nice 10 -12" fish all the way.  we saw several 16" – 20" browns and brookies, but didn’t get them.  wally had a nice one rise to his fly, but it slipped the hook. we hiked back to the truck around 5. drank a few beer and ate a sandwich, thinkin we’d begin the drive home at a reasonable hour.  well, i thought i’d fish just a little bit more down by the bridge at the campground.  easy in, easy out, wouldn’t take much time.  this time i started just below the bridge.  stepped into the water and spotted a big rainbow sitting in a V at the tail of a pool. after several different offerings failed, i lost my fly to a grabber-biter-eater (i.e., tree).  as i was tying on an olive dun, a wildlife officer walked up.  oh shit.. after 10 minutes of searching thousands of pockets, i finally located the plastic tape-ticket that serves as a nc license.  the guy asked me if i had seen anyone using livebait. guess it had been a long day and checking folks who weren’t close to the road was too much trouble. i doubt if the tattle-tail enforcement method works too well in the nc mountains… thought about sayin…"yeah, there were 2 guys about 4 miles up, looked like they hiked in…they were smokin those funny cigarettes, and puttin fish in a pack.  they sure were catchin a lot." back to the stream.  the #18 olive dun was a charm.  walt came up just to observe from the bridge.  i brought in 8 to 10 fish in the next 15 minutes.  during the proceedings, i saw two huge shadows moving just under the bridge.  they turned out to be a pair of brook trout of about 22-24".  the biggest brookies i’ve ever seen in the water.  when i pointed them out to waldo, he let out a gasp one would expect from a true fisherman who had walked to a stream without rod $ reel.  so, good gillie/friend that he is, he suggested i tie on a wooly bugger as the big boyz were not interested in the flies i was floating over their heads.  sure enough, first strip of a bugger and the smaller of the two fish slammed it and turned quickly.  i yanked too soon, or she spit it, but the hook snagged the behemoth.  fortunately, the old brood didn’t have much fight and she came in without a lot of trouble.  it was a wonderfully colored, heavy-bodied, hook-jawed fish.  time to go home. got in at about 9:30 pm.  rachel was not happy.  anyone know a valkyrie named gail hutzler roberts?  … if so, you’ll understand. jeff

Response:

Question:

What do you not like about fly fishing today? Today? Well, it was a bitch to get a good soft drop over the cube walls, steeple casts are bitch with a 10 foot ceiling, and I kept foul-hooking our group secretary. /daytripper (I need a 4 foot rod for "office fishing", I think…)

I got one you can try.  Shall I bring it to the Spring Fling?

Response:

What do you not like about fly fishing today?

Mostly that it didn’t happen today.

Response:

Yes, I too fear those menacing gun-toting steaks.

Yeah, but they’re pretty rare.

Response:

Yes, I too fear those menacing gun-toting steaks. Yeah, but they’re pretty rare.

LMAO!

Response:

What do you not like about fly fishing today?

Stupid questions.      - Ken — "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the  initiative in creating the Internet."  - Al Gore

Response:

What do you not like about fly fishing today?

It’s too cold out; most of the ponds are still frozen. And don’t get me started about the high country. I’m not too crazy about the gun-toting snakes either. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyo Before you buy.

Response:

What do you not like about fly fishing today?

all the damn people in my way as i try to shoot 150 yards over/under/through endangered rhododendron on quismeahss creek…. pisses me off !!! another pisser…. uhmm…. dumb queries. waldo

Response:

Yes, I too fear those menacing gun-toting steaks. Opie in NC – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What do you not like about fly fishing today? It’s too cold out; most of the ponds are still frozen. And don’t get me started about the high country. I’m not too crazy about the gun-toting snakes either. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyo Before you buy.

Response:

You should see the English ones !  Drive you mad they can ! TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

Response:

Yes, I too fear those menacing gun-toting steaks. Yeah, but they’re pretty rare.

Mostly.  But there’s one TBone that tends to be over done.

Response:

What do you not like about fly fishing today?

Response:

What do you not like about fly fishing today?

Today? Well, it was a bitch to get a good soft drop over the cube walls, steeple casts are bitch with a 10 foot ceiling, and I kept foul-hooking our group secretary. /daytripper (I need a 4 foot rod for "office fishing", I think…)

Response:

Question:

No doubt, Chan is the expert. He and Skip Morris have a new book, called Morris and Chan on Fly Fishing Trout Lakes, Frank Amato publications. It is an excellent book, and well worth the investment. It really will improve you lake fishing overall. Another good source on lake and midge fishing is Chan’s video Flyfishing Stillwaters Vol II. You won’t be dissapointed. I had the privledge of Meeting Brian Chan when staying at a lodge in the Kamloops area. He is a fisheries biologist, and came to the lodge to do some assesment and management work. He is quite a nice fellow. Tim Lysyk

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve just learned that a lake I will be going to this spring contains a great chironomid hatch (Thanks Will).  Unfortunately, in my 7 years of FF’ing, I’ve never really been inclined to explore the possibilities of chironomids.   I’ve heard wonderful things about it and now, I have reason to actually make an effort to learn as much as I can about fishing them. I understand that you are basically supposed to just let it drift on a fine long leader with a strike indicator, without retrieving line (am I wrong?). It actually sounds a bit boring…. I have dreadful visions of fishing Well, Ken, you almost have it right.  Most Americans I meet in Canada and here in the states do fish with a bobber and never feel the take.  But the Canadians do it better….floating line (they alternate two rods each with a single fly), let it sink and just work the fly near the bottom finger over finger. Very slowly.  You will feel the take and have a ball.  Look up Brian Chan of Fish B.C. on the web….he often writes about fishing chironomids. Good Luck. Fred

Response:

Mike, Lake fishing here, we regularly get the chance to fish a fourth stage – midge balls. The adults have orgies in the evenings, often during or after hatches. We palmer a grizzly hackle on size 14, 16 or 18 hooks. Like Ernie was saying – The fly imitates the balls of midges clustered together exchanging body fluids.

That’s interesting John. They have ‘balling buzzers’ in Ireland, just as you describe and imitate them with a similar pattern (hook tightly palmered with a grizzle hackle and maybe a red game hackle in the centre of the ‘ball’). Strangely, I have never come across this phenomenon on the English reservoirs. We might not have the species that does this. BTW, sorry guys for my earlier thread coming through in triplicate. I don’t know what’s going on. I only sent it once and it has happened somewhere else, too. Interesting thread, though. Some very informative links. Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

Response:

Lake fishing here, we regularly get the chance to fish a fourth stage – midge balls. The adults have orgies in the evenings, often during or after hatches.

ok…you guys are obviously napping.  time was this would have gotten at least 4 or 5 erudite comments… jeff

Response:

Lake fishing here, we regularly get the chance to fish a fourth stage – midge balls. The adults have orgies in the evenings, often during or after hatches. ok…you guys are obviously napping.  time was this would have gotten at least 4 or 5 erudite comments… jeff

        right you are, jeffie; but a moment such as that, once lost, can never be recaptured.  i put it down to age. wayno

Response:

Hi fellow FF’ers. Can any of you shed some light on chironomids: methods, techniques, leaders

Ken, I’d love to help but I had mine removed years ago. Sorry. Kiyu

Response:

I bought a chironomid when I was in the service, best damn wrist watch I ever had. Ernie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi fellow FF’ers. Can any of you shed some light on chironomids: methods, techniques, leaders Ken,

Response:

I picked up the book The Gilly, a Flyfishers Guide by Alfred Davy when I was in BC.  It was pretty good.  It has a little red sticker that says: national best seller.  I think they have to sell 25 books in Canada before it’s a best seller…  just kidding now, don’t get that Candadian blood all heated up.  Keep yer stick on the ice. Most places in BC they use pretty large flies.  Your standard variety western topwater flies will all work, but the rules are reversed as to size (in MT smaller is usually better).  In BC, larger is usually better.  I didn’t fish chronomids but I heard about the slow bottom and slowly rising to the surface film presentations of large chronomids (size 12 & 10, but it’s been a couple of yrs… I may be wrong there). Lake Louis in Bannf Prov Park is the best mtns in N Am, some say.  You might try and go there if you can. Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bob Church, Tom Saville and Charles Jardine have all written decent books on this subject.

Response:

Tony, Downunder we have stacks of midge fishing but our midges are all very small (all in the #20s). It’s not uncommon to have a hundred fish in one bay going berserk, gorging on midges every night at the peak of summer. IMO it’s the only time Aussie trout get terribly selective in the flies they take. Midge balls are fun because you get the surface takes and sometimes the trout will really chase them. It’s very hard to fish single emergers or adults – some guys do well with #18 or #20 klinkhammers – but you need much more light to keep track of your fly. Cheers JK

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mike, Lake fishing here, we regularly get the chance to fish a fourth stage – midge balls. The adults have orgies in the evenings, often during or after hatches. We palmer a grizzly hackle on size 14, 16 or 18 hooks. Like Ernie was saying – The fly imitates the balls of midges clustered together exchanging body fluids. That’s interesting John. They have ‘balling buzzers’ in Ireland, just as you describe and imitate them with a similar pattern (hook tightly palmered with a grizzle hackle and maybe a red game hackle in the centre of the ‘ball’). Strangely, I have never come across this phenomenon on the English reservoirs. We might not have the species that does this. BTW, sorry guys for my earlier thread coming through in triplicate. I don’t know what’s going on. I only sent it once and it has happened somewhere else, too. Interesting thread, though. Some very informative links. Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

Response:

I picked up the book The Gilly, a Flyfishers Guide by Alfred Davy when I was in BC.  It was pretty good.  It has a little red sticker that says: national best seller.  I think they have to sell 25 books in Canada before it’s a best seller…  just kidding now, don’t get that Candadian blood all heated up.  Keep yer stick on the ice. Most places in BC they use pretty large flies.  Your standard variety western topwater flies will all work, but the rules are reversed as to size (in MT smaller is usually better).  In BC, larger is usually better.  I didn’t fish chronomids but I heard about the slow bottom and slowly rising to the surface film presentations of large chronomids (size 12 & 10, but it’s been a couple of yrs… I may be wrong there). Lake Louis in Bannf Prov Park is the best mtns in N Am, some say.

We have some pretty large chironomids here in the British Isles. The large black and the orange/silver (Grey Boy) can be imitated on 10 and 12. The famous Irish ‘Duck Fly’ is probably about a 12. We would probably go down to 14 and 16 for the smaller ginger, olive and apple green species. Only a few of the more skilful still water fly fishers of my acquaintance bother with chironomid imitations of 18 or smaller. They can be very successful when they do so, but a 20 hook or anything smaller must be regard as a rarity on a British still water. Mostly, we get away with patterns dressed skinny and short on what most Americans would regard as ‘large’ hooks. From John Knight’s comments, the general run of chironomids on his Australian waters are rather smaller in size than we have here. If anyone is really interested in the entomology of these insects: ‘The Chironomidae – The biology and ecology of non-biting midges’, edited by Armitage, Cranston & Pinder. Pub. Chapman Hall. ISBN 0 412 45260 X Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

Response:

Mike, Lake fishing here, we regularly get the chance to fish a fourth stage – midge balls. The adults have orgies in the evenings, often during or after hatches. We palmer a grizzly hackle on size 14, 16 or 18 hooks. Like Ernie was saying – The fly imitates the balls of midges clustered together exchanging body fluids. The balls move around on the surface and are reminiscent of those drops of water that sometimes can’t break the surface tension. Because of the random movement, you can very slowly retrieve the fly, allowing you to feel when a trout grabs it among all the other rises and balls. Finding good protected  bays with hatches night after night is the trick. Cheers JK

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ken wrote <<  I’ve just learned that a lake I will be going to this spring contains a great chironomid hatch (Thanks Will).  Unfortunately, in my 7 years of FF’ing, I’ve never really been inclined to explore the possibilities of chironomids.   I’ve heard wonderful things about it and now, I have reason to actually make an effort to learn as much as I can about fishing them. Can any of you shed some light on chironomids: methods, techniques, leaders (lengths), strike indicators (distance away from fly)… anything at all. I understand that you are basically supposed to just let it drift on a fine long leader with a strike indicator, without retrieving line (am I wrong?). It actually sounds a bit boring…. I have dreadful visions of fishing chironomids as I see many similarities of float fishing with a worm and a bobber.  Is that true?  (please prove me wrong!) Well Ken, you are partially right.  Fishing chironimids can be REALLY boring and it does resemble fishing with a worm and bobber at

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – it can also provide dynamite fishing at times. There are basically 3 main stages of the midge hatch to be concerned with and I will do my best to butcher it for you. In the first stage I believe it is known as the larva.  The insect resembles a small red worm.  This is often called a blood worm and the fish go nuts for them.  I would make sure to have some flies tied up with red v-rib or thread and some red or pink floss off the end so it flutters in the water.   Fish these on a longer leader and a strike indicator. Phase two is the pupal stage and this is what is referred to as the chironomid stage.  You have to experiement a bit on depth to find where the fish are feeding.  It could be right off the bottom all the way up to the surface film. I would make sure to take a good selection of sizes in black, green and red. The bead head varient also works well and it sinks quickly.  You can fish this pattern on a drift if there is a small breeze or if it is dead still, slowly twitch it. The final phase is the emerger.  The midge is in the surface film drying its wings and shedding its casing.  If you see lots of surface action then the fish are hitting these either on top or just right before they reach the surface.  A Griffith nat is a good pattern for feeding on the surface since it imitates several midges bunched together.  There are also several emerger patterns of chironomids that use a small piece of foam for the wing casing that allow it to float right in the surface film. Good luck and have a great trip. Mike Wilson

Response:

Hi Ken, Check out the site below, Brian Chan is the guru of chironomid fishing from Canada. Confessions of a Chironomid Addict Vic – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi fellow FF’ers. I stumbled upon this newsgroup one evening about a week ago and glanced at a few threads hoping to find some answers to some issues I had regarding new lines for a rod. Now it seems I’m totally absorbed as I check ROFF out almost as often as I check my e-mails.   Really scary stuff.   ROFF’s enlightening and humourous.. what more can you ask for? Can any of you shed some light on chironomids: methods, techniques, leaders (lengths), strike indicators (distance away from fly)… anything at all. I see many similarities of float fishing with a worm and a bobber.  Is that true?  (please prove me wrong!) Hoping you can stir some excitement into a new realm of fly fishing for me. Thanks! Ken.

– http://home.earthlink.net/~vicbrockett

Response:

I’ve just learned that a lake I will be going to this spring contains a great chironomid hatch (Thanks Will).  Unfortunately, in my 7 years of FF’ing, I’ve never really been inclined to explore the possibilities of chironomids.   I’ve heard wonderful things about it and now, I have reason to actually make an effort to learn as much as I can about fishing them. I understand that you are basically supposed to just let it drift on a fine long leader with a strike indicator, without retrieving line (am I wrong?). It actually sounds a bit boring…. I have dreadful visions of fishing

Well, Ken, you almost have it right.  Most Americans I meet in Canada and here in the states do fish with a bobber and never feel the take.  But the Canadians do it better….floating line (they alternate two rods each with a single fly), let it sink and just work the fly near the bottom finger over finger.  Very slowly.  You will feel the take and have a ball.  Look up Brian Chan of Fish B.C. on the web….he often writes about fishing chironomids. Good Luck. Fred

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There are several articles and fly patterns for chironomid fishing at:           http://www.rural.escape.ca/angling_north/fishing/organz.htm – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi fellow FF’ers. Can any of you shed some light on chironomids: methods, techniques, leaders (lengths), strike indicators (distance away from fly)… anything at all. Ken.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi fellow FF’ers. I stumbled upon this newsgroup one evening about a week ago and glanced at a few threads hoping to find some answers to some issues I had regarding new lines for a rod. Now it seems I’m totally absorbed as I check ROFF out almost as often as I check my e-mails.   Really scary stuff.   ROFF’s enlightening and humourous.. what more can you ask for? Anyways,  back to the reason why I’m making a new post. I’ve just learned that a lake I will be going to this spring contains a great chironomid hatch (Thanks Will).  Unfortunately, in my 7 years of FF’ing, I’ve never really been inclined to explore the possibilities of chironomids.   I’ve heard wonderful things about it and now, I have reason to actually make an effort to learn as much as I can about fishing them. Can any of you shed some light on chironomids: methods, techniques, leaders (lengths), strike indicators (distance away from fly)… anything at all. I understand that you are basically supposed to just let it drift on a fine long leader with a strike indicator, without retrieving line (am I wrong?). It actually sounds a bit boring…. I have dreadful visions of fishing chironomids as I see many similarities of float fishing with a worm and a bobber.  Is that true?  (please prove me wrong!) Hoping you can stir some excitement into a new realm of fly fishing for me. Thanks! Ken.

Hi Ken, Midge fishing is a lengthy subject.  Someone else pointed you to Chan’s web page – do read it.  Chan is a real authority on the subject.  I buy his books and read his articles – its good stuff.  I love midge fishing myself .  I don’t find it boring even if it is a bit lazy.  First, lake midges come in a huge size range, from about size 12 to 20+.  I always start with the larger end of the spectrum, or go to the nearest match to whats on the water.  I use a floating line and the largest tippet I can get away with, which is seldom larger than 3x.  4x florocarbon(sp?) is my usual.  Lay out a 40-50 foot cast down wind (to help keep the line straight) and use a very slow hand twist retrieve.  Go to the strike indicator if you need to cast across the wave action and can’t keep your line straight.  (or if you just like the visual indication).  There are many special circumstances that need to be mastered – check the literature for those.  One worthwhile trick I will describe is to use two flies when using the strike indicator.  Make one something like a Rickards Stillwater and the other any of the midge patterns.   When the midges are actively emerging ( and fish are visibly feeding near the surface) most fish will be caught within a couple feet of the surface.  Othertimes you may need to do whats necessary to fish near the bottom. Pickups while using the hand twist retrieve are always interesting, and varied. somtimes you just sense the line is moving and a fish will be there.  Other times fish will hit so hard they snap the tippet before you can react at all. That is part of the fun. Best of luck

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There is nothing mystical or difficult about chironmid fishing at all. Neither is it boring. There two basic methods sinking line or floating – both work much the same. Get the fly to where the fish are feeding and move it in a way to imitate the rising chironmid pupae.The floating technique is most hyped but not necessarily the best.  In really deep water, sinking lines are the way to go – unless you want to spend most of your time waiting for the fly to sink. BC Chironmids are relatively large flies sized # 8 down to #16 cover virtually all sizes. TDC’s, frost bite chironmids, tunkwanamids and a variety of similar patterns all work. Carry a selection of colours – black, olive, brown, red  and green is fairly basic. I’ve done best with a very slow figure 8 retrieve. Retrieve as slowly as you think possible then cut the speed in half! Keep a straight line to the fly and you’ll feel a sublte weight when a fish takes. Actually using an indicator can be fun – since I was a kid I’ve gotten a big thrill watching a bobber dip into the water.. RalphH – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi fellow FF’ers. I stumbled upon this newsgroup one evening about a week ago and glanced at a few threads hoping to find some answers to some issues I had regarding new lines for a rod. Now it seems I’m totally absorbed as I check ROFF out almost as often as I check my e-mails.   Really scary stuff.   ROFF’s enlightening and humourous.. what more can you ask for? Anyways,  back to the reason why I’m making a new post. I’ve just learned that a lake I will be going to this spring contains a great chironomid hatch (Thanks Will).  Unfortunately, in my 7 years of FF’ing, I’ve never really been inclined to explore the possibilities of chironomids.   I’ve heard wonderful things about it and now, I have reason to actually make an effort to learn as much as I can about fishing them. Can any of you shed some light on chironomids: methods, techniques, leaders (lengths), strike indicators (distance away from fly)… anything at all. I understand that you are basically supposed to just let it drift on a fine long leader with a strike indicator, without retrieving line (am I wrong?). It actually sounds a bit boring…. I have dreadful visions of fishing chironomids as I see many similarities of float fishing with a worm and a bobber.  Is that true?  (please prove me wrong!) Hoping you can stir some excitement into a new realm of fly fishing for me. Thanks! Ken.

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Midge info beyond what one could write here can be found at these sites: Entomology http://www.sci.ouc.bc.ca/fwsc/iwalker/intpanis/ Fishing info http://www.rural.escape.ca/angling_north/fishing/organz.htm Hope these help.   Joe — – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly Hi fellow FF’ers. I stumbled upon this newsgroup one evening about a week ago and glanced at a few threads hoping to find some answers to some issues I had regarding new lines for a rod. Now it seems I’m totally absorbed as I check ROFF out almost as often as I check my e-mails.   Really scary stuff.   ROFF’s enlightening and humourous.. what more can you ask for? Anyways,  back to the reason why I’m making a new post. I’ve just learned that a lake I will be going to this spring contains a great chironomid hatch (Thanks Will).  Unfortunately, in my 7 years of FF’ing, I’ve never really been inclined to explore the possibilities of chironomids.   I’ve heard wonderful things about it and now, I have reason to actually make an effort to learn as much as I can about fishing them. Can any of you shed some light on chironomids: methods, techniques, leaders (lengths), strike indicators (distance away from fly)… anything at all. I understand that you are basically supposed to just let it drift on a fine long leader with a strike indicator, without retrieving line (am I wrong?). It actually sounds a bit boring…. I have dreadful visions of fishing chironomids as I see many similarities of float fishing with a worm and a bobber.  Is that true?  (please prove me wrong!) Hoping you can stir some excitement into a new realm of fly fishing for me. Thanks! Ken.

Response:

Can any of you shed some light on chironomids: methods, techniques, leaders (lengths), strike indicators (distance away from fly)… anything at all.

Chironomids -non-biting midges- are a huge family of insects that occur just about everywhere and in a wide climatic range. The larval and pupal stages of many chironomid species exist in rivers and still waters. In still waters they are frequently the largest constituent of the invertebrate population and -as such- a major component of the diet of many species of fish. On British reservoirs, certainly, ‘buzzers’ (as they are often called here), are regarded as the most important flies to the imitative fly fisher. There have been countless patterns devised to imitate particularly the pupal form and, to a lesser extent, the larval and winged adult stages. If you want to know more about chironomid fishing, patterns etc., I would suggest you get hold of a British still water fly fishing book. Bob Church, Tom Saville and Charles Jardine have all written decent books on this subject. Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

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Hi Ken,   Chironomid fishing is difficult.  Some tiers tie a fly that resembles a group of midges on the water.  They think it improves the chances that a fish will take the fly in preference to the thousands that are on the water. Ernie

<snip Can any of you shed some light on chironomids: methods, techniques, leaders (lengths), strike indicators (distance away from fly)… anything at all.

<snip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Ken.

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They are just the "nymph" stage of the midge. Here in Colorado these buzzers can be imitated using hooks up to about size 12. They can be very large. (Normal midge pupa are imitated by 18-24 size hooks. Don’t get bored. Fish the buzzer about 3-4 feet below a dry fly. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi fellow FF’ers. I stumbled upon this newsgroup one evening about a week ago and glanced at a few threads hoping to find some answers to some issues I had regarding new lines for a rod. Now it seems I’m totally absorbed as I check ROFF out almost as often as I check my e-mails.   Really scary stuff.   ROFF’s enlightening and humourous.. what more can you ask for? Anyways,  back to the reason why I’m making a new post. I’ve just learned that a lake I will be going to this spring contains a great chironomid hatch (Thanks Will).  Unfortunately, in my 7 years of FF’ing, I’ve never really been inclined to explore the possibilities of chironomids.   I’ve heard wonderful things about it and now, I have reason to actually make an effort to learn as much as I can about fishing them. Can any of you shed some light on chironomids: methods, techniques, leaders (lengths), strike indicators (distance away from fly)… anything at all. I understand that you are basically supposed to just let it drift on a fine long leader with a strike indicator, without retrieving line (am I wrong?). It actually sounds a bit boring…. I have dreadful visions of fishing chironomids as I see many similarities of float fishing with a worm and a bobber.  Is that true?  (please prove me wrong!) Hoping you can stir some excitement into a new realm of fly fishing for me. Thanks! Ken.

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Ken wrote <<  I’ve just learned that a lake I will be going to this spring contains a great chironomid hatch (Thanks Will).  Unfortunately, in my 7 years of FF’ing, I’ve never really been inclined to explore the possibilities of chironomids.   I’ve heard wonderful things about it and now, I have reason to actually make an effort to learn as much as I can about fishing them. Can any of you shed some light on chironomids: methods, techniques, leaders (lengths), strike indicators (distance away from fly)… anything at all. I understand that you are basically supposed to just let it drift on a fine long leader with a strike indicator, without retrieving line (am I wrong?). It actually sounds a bit boring…. I have dreadful visions of fishing chironomids as I see many similarities of float fishing with a worm and a bobber.  Is that true?  (please prove me wrong!)

Well Ken, you are partially right.  Fishing chironimids can be REALLY boring it can also provide dynamite fishing at times. There are basically 3 main stages of the midge hatch to be concerned with and I will do my best to butcher it for you.   In the first stage I believe it is known as the larva.  The insect resembles a small red worm.  This is often called a blood worm and the fish go nuts for them.  I would make sure to have some flies tied up with red v-rib or thread and some red or pink floss off the end so it flutters in the water.   Fish these on a longer leader and a strike indicator. Phase two is the pupal stage and this is what is referred to as the chironomid stage.  You have to experiement a bit on depth to find where the fish are feeding.  It could be right off the bottom all the way up to the surface film. I would make sure to take a good selection of sizes in black, green and red. The bead head varient also works well and it sinks quickly.  You can fish this pattern on a drift if there is a small breeze or if it is dead still, slowly twitch it. The final phase is the emerger.  The midge is in the surface film drying its wings and shedding its casing.  If you see lots of surface action then the fish are hitting these either on top or just right before they reach the surface.  A Griffith nat is a good pattern for feeding on the surface since it imitates several midges bunched together.  There are also several emerger patterns of chironomids that use a small piece of foam for the wing casing that allow it to float right in the surface film. Good luck and have a great trip. Mike Wilson

Response:

Hi fellow FF’ers. I stumbled upon this newsgroup one evening about a week ago and glanced at a few threads hoping to find some answers to some issues I had regarding new lines for a rod. Now it seems I’m totally absorbed as I check ROFF out almost as often as I check my e-mails.   Really scary stuff.   ROFF’s enlightening and humourous.. what more can you ask for? Anyways,  back to the reason why I’m making a new post. I’ve just learned that a lake I will be going to this spring contains a great chironomid hatch (Thanks Will).  Unfortunately, in my 7 years of FF’ing, I’ve never really been inclined to explore the possibilities of chironomids.   I’ve heard wonderful things about it and now, I have reason to actually make an effort to learn as much as I can about fishing them. Can any of you shed some light on chironomids: methods, techniques, leaders (lengths), strike indicators (distance away from fly)… anything at all. I understand that you are basically supposed to just let it drift on a fine long leader with a strike indicator, without retrieving line (am I wrong?). It actually sounds a bit boring…. I have dreadful visions of fishing chironomids as I see many similarities of float fishing with a worm and a bobber.  Is that true?  (please prove me wrong!) Hoping you can stir some excitement into a new realm of fly fishing for me. Thanks! Ken.

Response:

Hi fellow FF’ers. I stumbled upon this newsgroup one evening about a week ago and glanced at a few threads hoping to find some answers to some issues I had regarding new lines for a rod. Now it seems I’m totally absorbed as I check ROFF out almost as often as I check my e-mails.   Really scary stuff.   ROFF’s enlightening and humourous.. what more can you ask for?

        well, it’s obvious that if you don’t already need psychiatric help, you soon will.  but if you’re (often spelled "your" by the dumbasses in this outfit) going to stay for a while, kindly adopt a handle that will distinguish your "ken-ness" from that of the several other "kens" around here.  if you don’t, you will be mystified at the hostile response your posts arouse, for no apparent reason. Can any of you shed some light on chironomids: methods, techniques, leaders (lengths), strike indicators (distance away from fly)… anything at all.

        unfortunately, since "chironomids" are simply little bitty ol yankee bugs that you can’t hardly see ( as folks say in rowan county, "they ain’t no bigger than a piss-ant!), and thereby of no interest to a self-respecting flyfisher, i am unable to provide information at the level i normally do. I see many similarities of float fishing with a worm and a bobber.  Is that true?  (please prove me wrong!)

        most folks around here can’t satisfactorily prove that the sun rose this morning. Hoping you can stir some excitement into a new realm of fly fishing for me.

        i know an ol boy from down in pitt county, name of pamlico jim, who makes excitement an integral part of fly fishing, not to speak of gettin there and comin back.  but he doesn’t know how to type.         your new pal in the old north state,         wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Thanks! Ken.

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Question:

George – Can I have some of what your drinking? It’s gotta be good stuff! Nice prose there Georgie… Greg – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I began this journey on a dare.  I don’t even remember who it was.   It was one of you, even two or three, yet, here I am, wondering why I’m here? The fly rod is but a stick.  It is a reaching prest toward trout. Something to dab with, as in days of yore.  The lure of water, fins, and things that fall into water are what closes the chain that draws such as you   and I to feeding fish? We are men of water. I have mused much in my lifetime of how fishing began with sticks.  I have thought of the first hook and I’m sure, in my mind, it has always been hidden in the crotch of a sapling.  A simple affair of early man looking ‘down’ into clear water at big fish, stationary and finning, holding – waiting for food to come their way.  Food, the number one driving force of this planet.  Food, the mother of imagination.  Food, the mistress of fly fishing.  In all time, it only needed a student, willing to learn. I can see myself in another life, ugly, naked, hungry,  looking at such fish.  How it came to be that ‘the light of imagination,’ would turn the sapling, I may have been holding onto, so I could peer out and down a little better, sparked the logic of stripping it of all the limbs except one lower one, branch stub ‘up’ for a snare, to be able to reach down, slowly, moving the stick under such a wild creature and with all the quickness and might I could muster, lift it quickly, impelling and catching it fresh and easy . . . surely was a feat that had to be repeated again and again over the entire history of mankind.  Repeated by others of our reincarnated pasts? Today, I have built a bamboo fly rod plant.  A great river flows in front.  I am torn between its lure and the wand one must have in hand to conquer it.  A line of Osage orange trees line the other side of the road and a few yards beyond that, the Snake River slowly begins to fill with spring run off.  I am a trapped man in love with all that is around him.  Wood, freshly sawed with the dust veins, lay in heaps on the floor – sweetly scenting of pine, prints upon the mind.  This is a place children would remember.  Work benches, take form and the whirling sounds of a large table saw, cross saws, drills and electric screwdrivers whine late into the night.  A man’s dream slowly takes shape.  You can see his commitment to the future and of the many men he thinks about as he builds alone, thoughtful, diligent, steadily he holds on to his beliefs and dreams.  He feel very alone many times, late at night. Already, it is 1:26 AM in the morning.  The rod-guide-winding table has been dyed cherry wood and it has been varnished and now a clear finish dries while I write this.  Today, cutting bevels of sixty degrees each arrived for a new tapering machine.  A Beveler for roughing out Bamboo strips has been ordered and is on its way.  A new and second rod winding machine has been set up and the new table will have two of them.  Late this evening I bought the glue that will hold the Bastard Rods together.  Two cases of rod binding string are on its way, enough to wrap several hundred fly rods.  Planers, drill press, a SouthBend Lathe have bee ordered along with a heating oven.  Daily, hour by hour, week by week this is all I think of.  It is all I do.  I am a man of water. My mind sees pictures into the future.  Of men astream, casting.   If I am lucky, they may be casting a bamboo fly rod . . . a tool of our past, welded in spirit by our human history, flowing like the mane of a horse, that once upon a time was our fly lines. I can visualize another one day sitting in this fly rod shop I’m building, musing,  banding guides in colors sublime.  Green or Blue trimmed in Black or Gold, each wrap a binding makes – the man to his client.  One simple wrap, will go astream to secret places I know not of, but in spirit as the reed swishes softly in a early dawn, many miles away, by another.  We are men of water. The simplicity of thread has much beauty as the simplicity of the Chinese Bamboo does.  The simplicity of cork grown in Portugal by peasants who wait 35 years for its first crop, provides ‘feel,’ yet no one has empathy for those that work from hand to mouth for it.  The story of cane comes not without just dues.  How can something so simple be so cost intensive by involving so many lives?  It is just a stick, right?  How can anything like this be complicated? Up the Sui River  Northwest of Canton on a parcel of land of about 48,000 acres is the only place in the world that Angler Bamboo grows. In all the world, in a nation that crawls with more people then a colony of ants, a peasant gleans the mountain side of mature Tonkin.  He will strip it of leaves and he will drag it to the river.  He will bind it into rafts and then ride it over 230 miles down river.  There, the bamboo is scrubbed in wet beach sand to get rid of white fungus growth and it is stacked in tall bundles, left in the sun for weeks to dry and slowly cure.  Many hands have already handled the pole and so, it is taken to a warehouse where it is heated over charcoal and a bend is straightened out.  Soon, it is culled and cut and shipped to the United States.  Some of it cures now in a loft in my new shop.  That this one pole for a fly rod has traveled nearly 10,000 miles to be here, few of us care not.  It is so simple in form.  So naive in purpose, as to boggle the mind.  It’s destiny is held in my hands, and in that, magic is possible.  Isn’t it said that anything is possible for those who dream? "There’s a Wood Duck Decoy in that there hunk of wood if you know how to carve him out of it." Making a fly rod is a contemplative man’s sport as is the art of fly fishing.  If it isn’t an art form, then it should be.  Only a mindless boar doesn’t appreciate his own past. So it is, I see in the near future – a simple pole being split into eighteen strips, and each designed in a specific place in a fly rod for someone . . . many miles away.  Six sides and two tips filled with glues, varnishes, hardwood inserts, guides for sliding graceful fly lines and for a fly, a man, a trout, and a season.  For a man of water. I am humbled to be just a little part of it.  There is much to think about yet.  I am close to beginning the journey of building.  God help me. —

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone Know of an economical method of making chum? Want to make my own ,but don’t want to spend $600 to $700 for a used Hobart type meat grinder. Anyone out there making their own? Any ideas are helpful.Thanks…. and tight lines!    Email  or post Sam, I use an old hand powered meat grinder that I picked up at an antiques auction for 25 bucks. Attach it to a 2×4 and then attach that to a fish tote. Works great… — Tight lines and sharp hooks, Capt. Mark Poirier <OOOO))’

I have made chum in the past using a hand grinder hooked to a motor using the fly wheel out of an old dryer, its big enough to make the grinder run slow. I have also used the same hand grinder hooked to a 12 volt engine started on the boat, its noisy but it works well, you can find the atachments near comm fishing docks that use shum. mine only cost about $50 by using used started and grinder. —   Not all chemicals are bad. Without chemicals such as hydrogen and oxygen, for example, there would be no way to make water,  a vital ingredient in beer.                             … Dave Barry   John & Donna Koterba http://www.olg.com/jkoterba

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone Know of an economical method of making chum? Want to make my own ,but don’t want to spend $600 to $700 for a used Hobart type meat grinder. Anyone out there making their own? Any ideas are helpful.Thanks…. and tight lines!    Email  or post Sam, I use an old hand powered meat grinder that I picked up at an antiques auction for 25 bucks. Attach it to a 2×4 and then attach that to a fish tote. Works great… — Tight lines and sharp hooks, Capt. Mark Poirier <OOOO))’ I have made chum in the past using a hand grinder hooked to a motor using the fly wheel out of an old dryer, its big enough to make the grinder run slow. I have also used the same hand grinder hooked to a 12 volt engine started on the boat, its noisy but it works well, you can find the atachments near comm fishing docks that use shum. mine only cost about $50 by using used started and grinder. —   Not all chemicals are bad. Without chemicals such as hydrogen and oxygen, for example, there would be no way to make water,  a vital ingredient in beer.                             … Dave Barry John & Donna Koterba http://www.olg.com/jkoterba

I once used a weed wacker to grind up some menhaden. We did have a sucessful trip but I would frown on the weed wacker idea from now on.

Response:

Anyone Know of an economical method of making chum? Want to make my own ,but don’t want to spend $600 to $700 for a used Hobart type meat grinder. Anyone out there making their own? Any ideas are helpful.Thanks…. and tight lines!    Email  or post

Response:

Anyone Know of an economical method of making chum? Want to make my own ,but don’t want to spend $600 to $700 for a used Hobart type meat grinder. Anyone out there making their own? Any ideas are helpful.Thanks…. and tight lines!    Email  or post

Sam, I use an old hand powered meat grinder that I picked up at an antiques auction for 25 bucks. Attach it to a 2×4 and then attach that to a fish tote. Works great… — Tight lines and sharp hooks, Capt. Mark Poirier – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<OOOO))’

Response:

Anyone Know of an economical method of making chum? Want to make my own ,but don’t want to spend $600 to $700 for a used Hobart type meat grinder. Anyone out there making their own? Any ideas are helpful.Thanks…. and tight lines!    Email  or post

Here’s some ideas i’ve tried with success: 1. Cheapest fish favor cat food both dry or canned is ready made chum. Just dump into chum pot as is. 2. Use a blender with enough water to chop scraps, then pour into half gallon milk cartons and freeze.  To use, peal off carton and put in chum pot.  As it melts it releases. 3. Popular chum here in Hawaii is old white bread mixed with tomato sardines and water. Works for just about anything.  Mix sand into chum if you want it to sink faster. 4. Buy an inexpensive hand-crank meat grinder (plastic with stainless steel blades works best for saltwater applications).  Mount it on a plate with post (pipe) that fits a rodholder.  Attach a radiator hose to outlet of grinder (length of hose depends on the boat, diameter of hose depends on grinder).  Mount the grinder/plate in a rail rodholder and hang hose overboard.  As you grind fish scraps it will run down the hose overboard.  You can grind on demand.  Pour water into the grinder once in a while to clear grinder and hose. Chum pot easy to make.  Just get a plastic 5 gallon bucket with lid, drill ALOT of 1/4" wholes in the sides and bottom.  Tie a short length of rope to bucket handle.   Now just place some chum into bucket, put lid on and hang it over the side with rope tied to cleat of your boat. Chum leaches out of holes with the motion of the boat.                                                            Spy in Hawaii

Response:

I’ve tried several different chum methods: 1.  Learned this from a professional yellowtail snapper fisherman in the Keys – Buy a block of frozen menhaden, mix it with horse oats, water and fine white beach sand, into a slurry.  Dump it over the side a little at a time.  It makes a "cloud" in clear water that both attracts yellow tail and hides your hook (bait up a chunk of mullet or a menhaden – whatever you have, then toss it into the cloud). 2.  Canned catfood, the cheapest, stinkiest stuff you can find works well. Punch a bunch of holes in the can and hang it over the side of your boat. Or you can open a can, dump it into a bucket mixed with water and ladle it over the side. 3.  Same as above with cheap sardines. 4.  For fresh water, try hog pellets.  Here in Florida, we use ‘em to bait shiner nets.  They work fine. 5.  If you’re near the ocaen, go to a fishhouse and ask to buy their dead crabs.  smash ‘em up and ladle ‘em.  They’re terrific for redfish.

Response:

Anyone Know of an economical method of making chum? Want to make my own ,but don’t want to spend $600 to $700 for a used Hobart type meat grinder. Anyone out there making their own? Any ideas are helpful.Thanks…. and tight lines!    Email  or post

This may sound like BS but a guy told me to use an old lawn mower, you might piss off the neighbors but it might work He said he used it to for bluefish to make shark chum. You also might be able to use a leaf mulcher or wood chipper. Don’t laugh to hard at me I’m just passin it on

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So far, I think this is a great line of discussion.  Does anybody mind if I use some of this as material in my articles?  Actually, some of it might be good for a comedy special on HBO.  "Lawn Mulchers for grass, grits, or chum" or something along those lines. Capt. Charlie Capt. Charlie Walker           Southern Charm Charters 813-546-7257                  http://www.flfish.com/fl

Aloha Charlie,   I almost forgot, the best chum maker of all was my younger sister, her first trip out in the ocean.  Her stomach was churning.  And Her timing was perfect.  We would be drifting and everytime she chummed with her breakfast, the fish would show and the action would get wild.  Just when the fish start drifting away, she would get up and chum some more (ralph!) and action all over again.  She ran out (of internal chum) eventually, and the fish left.  She was a real sport though.  I’ll always remember her reeling in fish while lying down.  Try as we might, we could not get her to eat anymore.  We tried not to think of the chum as we ate the fish that night.  Same thing happened with one of my Buddies on his first time out, too.  Now when I see him I say "you’re not just a friend… you’re a real chum".  We can laugh about it now.                                                 A hui hou, Spy in Hawaii

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So far, I think this is a great line of discussion.  Does anybody mind if I use some of this as material in my articles?  Actually, some of it might be good for a comedy special on HBO.  "Lawn Mulchers for grass, grits, or chum" or something along those lines. Capt. Charlie Capt. Charlie Walker           Southern Charm Charters 813-546-7257                  http://www.flfish.com/fl

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So far, I think this is a great line of discussion.  Does anybody mind if I use some of this as material in my articles?  Actually, some of it might be good for a comedy special on HBO.  "Lawn Mulchers for grass, grits, or chum" or something along those lines. Capt. Charlie Capt. Charlie Walker           Southern Charm Charters 813-546-7257                  http://www.flfish.com/fl

See Dan Akroyd in skit called "Bass-O-Matic" on Best of Sat. Nite Live video.  It slices, dices, and turns live bass into a wholesome and refreshing beverage.<g Mark

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Anyone Know of an economical method of making chum?

Really the most economical system I ever heard of was a can of dog food. You buy a can. Use an Ice pick (everybody has one of these aboard) to punch holes in the can. Tie a line (string) around the can and through it in (tie the line to the boat stupid). I have used this for weakies and blues. Works well. Good luck. Michael W. Madden Technical Director, TekVantage The Chesapeake Bay Mariners’ Guide http://www.tekvantage.com/MarinersGuide/index.html The Far Horizons Sailing Search Engine http://www.tekvantage.com/FarHorizons/index.html Host to: The Havre de Grace Yacht Club http://www.tekvantage.com/hdgyc/index.html Host to: The Crazy Swede Restaurant and Bar http://www.tekvantage.com/crazyswede/index.html

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of course it does, it fits the rest of the profile. TimW

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I’ve been trying straighten out my subscription for months. Those people just seem clueless. Needless to say, I’ll not renew. AL – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In the hope that someone connected with that magazine reads this….. Every year our flyfishing club has a banquet. Every year, after spending umpteen bucks on raffle tickets, I wind up with a free subscription to Fly Fishing Magazine. Every year I send in the letter, and every year I don’t get squat! Well after 3 years of this I sent a letter to the magazine’s subscription dept. Guess what I got? A subscription to Horse and Rider! I know you’re laughing…..hey cut it out, I’m pissed off. I guess I’m saying, think twice before you subscribe to this magazine. Who knows if they’ll ever get it right.

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In the hope that someone connected with that magazine reads this….. Every year our flyfishing club has a banquet. Every year, after spending umpteen bucks on raffle tickets, I wind up with a free subscription to Fly Fishing Magazine. Every year I send in the letter, and every year I don’t get squat! Well after 3 years of this I sent a letter to the magazine’s subscription dept. Guess what I got? A subscription to Horse and Rider! I know you’re laughing…..hey cut it out, I’m pissed off. I guess I’m saying, think twice before you subscribe to this magazine. Who knows if they’ll ever get it right.

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Question:

I use to lick my fingers to help with dubbing, control maribou, etc until I realized that I did not know where those critters/materials had been nor what they had been dipped in. I now use a sponge sitting in a soup dish filled with water to help control the maribou. My tongue has returned to its natural color. I have found a great dubbing wax and technique. Al Beatty sells the wax and provides instructions for the slickest way to apply dubbing I’ve found in the past 25 years of tying. Vic’s Fly-By-Night Too much time spent tying Not enough fishing

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Sorry–I missed the earlier thread on the Blitzen in Oregon.  What’s it like when it opens in spring?   Also… Stroking back marabou feathers the other night, I was licking my fingers and savoring the delightful petro-chemical taste of the dye when it occurred to me that I might be poisoning myself.  Anybody thought about this? D.

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Sorry–I missed the earlier thread on the Blitzen in Oregon.  What’s it like when it opens in spring? Also… Stroking back marabou feathers the other night, I was licking my fingers and savoring the delightful petro-chemical taste of the dye when it occurred to me that I might be poisoning myself.  Anybody thought about this? D.

If you regularly eat hot dogs, don’t worry about it. You’ve got bigger problems. Sorry, couldn’t resist it. Lolo Mt.

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Question:

Does anyone on this newsgroup have current information on saltwater flyfishing at Christmas (Kiribati) Island?  In 1979 I spent some time on the island doing anthropological research and found the bonefishing fantastic.  They were interested at that time in promoting the sportfishing, especially the saltwater flyfishing from the reef.  There have been a couple of articles on the sportfishing in the mid ’80s but I haven’t seen anything recently. — Los Angeles Maritime Museum                                               NETCOM, the West Coast’s Leading Internet Service Provider.      (408) 554-8649

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I have been twice in 1988 and dec. 1994. It is the best bone fishing i have found for numbers of fish. I was there in Sept. of 88 and Dec. of 94. Largest of the two trips was 30 inches. Most weigh about 2-3 pounds. Good food and native guides are fine. I would suggest u hire an extra guide for yourself or for you and a friend if anyone goes with you. A young guide, NAREAU is the best I have used. MOANNA the most famous is now into the bottle pretty heavy and on our last trip he was quite undependable. If you need any other suggestions let me know. I would only book through FRONTIERS in Medford, Penna. good luck. Jack.

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Does anyone on this newsgroup have current information on saltwater flyfishing at Christmas (Kiribati) Island?  In 1979 I spent some time on the island doing anthropological research and found the bonefishing fantastic.  They were interested at that time in promoting the sportfishing, especially the saltwater flyfishing from the reef.  There have been a couple of articles on the sportfishing in the mid ’80s but I haven’t seen anything recently. —

Los Angeles Maritime Museum                                               NETCOM, the West Coast’s Leading Internet Service Provider.      (408)

554-8649 Regarding bone fishing on Christmas Island:  my husband and several of the other members of the Santa Cruz Fly Fishermen fished there last January. They booked their trip through a group called Fishabout, located in Los Gatos.  They have a P.O. Box:  1679, Los Gatos, CA 95031.  Contact either Howard McKinney or Kay Mitsyoshi, at 1-800-409-2000.  The group flew to Honolulu, then transferred to Air Nahru to Kiribati.  Their accomodations were in a small hotel, and their guides took them by boat out to the flats, where they fished, accompanied by the guide.  Everyone reported fine fishing and were satisfied with the package, so Kiribati is having some success promoting their bonefishing. Yours, Pat Steele

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Give any of the destination fly shops a call.  Christmas Island is a very popular bone destination these days.  I would reccomend The Fly Shop in Redding,  CA.  Ask for Mike, the owner… Good Luck, Mad Dog

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Kaufmann’s Streamborn has a lot of good information and experience with Christmas Island.  They have a great color catalog that you can full color photos of lots of travel destinations including Christmas Island.  They’ve got a new web page at http://www.teleport.com/~kman  You can also call them at 800/442-4359, and ask for Jerry.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Does anyone on this newsgroup have current information on saltwater flyfishing at Christmas (Kiribati) Island?  In 1979 I spent some time on the island doing anthropological research and found the bonefishing fantastic.  They were interested at that time in promoting the sportfishing, especially the saltwater flyfishing from the reef.  There have been a couple of articles on the sportfishing in the mid ’80s but I haven’t seen anything recently. — Los Angeles Maritime Museum                                               NETCOM, the West Coast’s Leading Internet Service Provider.      (408) 554-8649

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Question:

Could someone explain to me what is meant by a slow, medium or fast action fly rod and the advantages and disadvantages of the different actions? Thanks!

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: Could someone explain to me what is meant by a slow, medium or fast action : fly rod and the advantages and disadvantages of the different actions? I own three rods: one very soft (slow) 8 wt. home build, one medium 7-8 wt. Ron Thomson and one very fast Orvis Steelhead 7-8 wt. All of them are app. 9′ long, and I grab the Orvis almost any time. The slow rod is much too lame for the windy danish conditions. It can hardly cast a 7 wt DT line, and the WF8 line needed for most of my fishing is almost too heavy for it. It might bee good for light DT lines at short distances such as danish stream fishing — which I’ve never tried. The medium one is good for fishing in no wind. Fighting smaller fish (2-4 pounds) is a pleasure, but if a wind rises it can’t stand the distance. The Orvis rod is not only fast — it’s ultra fast and thows a 9 wt. WF line easily. I use it with an WF8 line and it’s a pleasure. the problem is that small fish is no big thrill on this rod. Big ones ar easily tired, but small ones you just wheel home. But the advantages are too big for me to choose another rod; long effortless casting even in the heaviest wind. I fish with this rod at the danish coastes all year round under all conditions and it’s a blessing. I would like to get a similar fast rod in a lower class like 6-7, for fishing under calmer conditions, and I will probably never again buy or build a slow rod — not to mention a bamboo one. Ofcourse your choice depends on your temper and your fishing, but try the fast ones too. Only one disadvantage; they’re expensive CU Martin Joergensen, Copehagen, Denmark

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: Could someone explain to me what is meant by a slow, medium or fast action : fly rod and the advantages and disadvantages of the different actions?

A fly rod is a delicately ballanced casting tool, not a broomstick with which to whip a fly onto the water.  Different people prefer the tool calibrated or tuned to different specs.  You will find those who prefer slow rods, and those who prefer fast.  It is really a matter of personal taste.  The finest, most expensive rods you can buy are extremely slow while the fastest rods tend to be the most popular today.  I generally prefer slow to medium rods, but you have to go to a show or shop and try a few out to find out for your self.         When you cast, you toss the line back and wait for the weight of the line to load the spring of the rod.  Then you possition the rod foreward and let the rod unload it’s force.  With a slow rod, you must let the rod do it’s thing.  You cannot force the cast, or all you get is a dropped line and a hook in the back of your head.  The advantage here is that the rod does all the work.  Casting can become extremely relaxing.  Many old timers really enjoy the graceful relaxation of casting a slow action split bamboo rod.  The problem is that you cannot get any more power than the rod was built with, no matter how tough you are.  Also, you are forced to cast with the rythm of the rod.  Those same slow graceful loading and unloadings can be a real pain if you can’t match their timing.         With a fast rod, you can actually force the cast.  In fact, with a really fast rod, you can ignore the rythm of the rod and just whip the line back and forth and push it out.  This means that you can add a lot of your own strength to the rods power to really punch out a cast.  It also means that you don’t have to learn to cast to start fishing, you can get away with just muscleing your way through it.         As fly fishing has gone from a graceful relaxing hobby of older men and women to a bastion of young, fit yuppies seeking outdoor thrills the general preference in rods has gone from slow to fast action rods.  I often taunt guys who prefer fast rods as impatient broomstick whippers.  Technically this is not fair.  Their are some advantages to those really fast rods.  My point is that you should not be intimidated into buying a fast rod because it’s popular, or a slow cane rod because it’s expensive.  Bottom line is that you need to find your own preference.   . Good luck . Lenny Bloksberg . . .

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   With a fast rod, you can actually force the cast.  In fact, with a really fast rod, you can ignore the rythm of the rod and just whip the line back and forth and push it out.  This means that you can add a lot of your own strength to the rods power to really punch out a cast.  It also means that you don’t have to learn to cast to start fishing, you can get away with just muscleing your way through it.

I don’t find that to be completely true. It’s true that you have the possibilty to add a lot of force to the cast when using a fast rod. This is not possible with a softer, slower rod or at least completely useless. But using extra force in the cast isn’t going to get you anywhere in my opninion — not even whith the fast rod. Even a fast rod is dependent of your rythm for a good performance, and my experience — using a fast rod for almost all my fishing — is that the best casts come when you follow the rods natural rythm — like when using a slower, softer rod. If you want distance or genlte presentation, never force the cast — not even using the newest, ultra fastest rod. It’s useless at best and destructive for your casting at the worst — and a waste of enegery anyhow. and women to a bastion of young, fit yuppies seeking outdoor thrills the general preference in rods has gone from slow to fast action rods.  I often taunt guys who prefer fast rods as impatient broomstick whippers.  Technically this is not fair.  Their are some advantages to those really fast rods.  My

If I did’nt use a fast rod for my coastal fishing under windy conditions in Denmark, I wouldn’t get a fly very far out, and probably wouldn’t catch many fish. And I’m no thrill-seaking yuppie BTW ;=) it’s popular, or a slow cane rod because it’s expensive.  Bottom line is that you need to find your own preference.  

Exactly my words Regards Martin Joergensen Copenhagen, Denmark

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Could someone explain to me what is meant by a slow, medium or fast action fly rod and the advantages and disadvantages of the different actions? Thanks! For graphite (I’m not familiar with bamboo), its a function of the rod taper and the type of graphite used. A good way to check the action of the rod is to lay the first half of the rod on the floor (away from feet, and all pieces of the rod assembled) and gently apply pressure until the middle ferral touches the floor. The more the whole rod bends throughout the entire blank the better the chance its a slow or medium action rod. Faster rods typically have stiffer butt sections and/or stiffer tip sections.

Try this instead: Slow rod = Bends in the Butt Med. rod = Bends in the mid-section Fast rod = Bends at the tip Another way to think about this is to consider how much the rod (for a given weight) would bend under a given load. Action is synonymous with the rods stiffness. Most decent graphite rods now have a progressive action, meaning that as load is increased the rod bends further down towards the butt rather than simply bending more in one spot. Typically fast action rods are nice in wind and distance situations because the rod allows for faster line speed (ie. it recovers faster, the loop in the line is smaller). The slower rods usually produce wider loops when casting and can be a problem in the wind.

Sorry, but I don’t agree. Line speed has nothing directly to do with rod action. Line speed is a function of the casting loop, and a soft rod is just as capable of casting a tight loop as a stiff rod. The smaller the loop, the faster the line. The cast is a wave, and like other waves, the smaller the frequency the faster the forward speed. In casting, the size of that wave (casting loop) is determined by the distance between the tip of the rod at the beginning of the forward cast and the tip of the rod at the end of the cast. Slow and fast rods can produce the same size loop by varying the length of the casting stroke. Fast rods require shorter strokes, while slow rods require long strokes. I think the misconception comes from the fact that slow rods are more easily overpowered and are more sensitive to power being applied too early. They do require a more deft touch, but they can produce the same effects on the line, but with a different casting style. Mr. Bloksberg said it quite eloquently in his post. Its not that one type is better or worse, but find the right rod for your particular casting style. What’s right for the guy down stream may not be what’s right for you. For now, as what I would consider an intermeadiate caster, I’m going to stick with my medium action rod. I do get more casting loops than I would like, but in the end I think I’ll be a better caster (if not fisherman ) for it. C. Abbott

-Dave Opincarne

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I don’t want to get nit-picky on the issue but you have to admit that given the same angler for two different rod actions; one slow and the other fast. That an angler who is not an experienced caster can after a sereral casting lessons throw a tighter loop ` with a stiff, fast rod than limber, slow rod. This is lure of that technology. I know that loop tightness is a function of line speed, but most people entering the sport are incapible of producing it with slower rods. The new rod actions are some times a crutch in this regard. Also, notice the language I used, "usually", "most of the time", I was talking more to the generalities than the absolute science of rod actions. I believe I also wrote that the person who asked the question go out and cast a few rods and not worry about techno aspects. Pardon my inarticulations, Chuck Abbott.

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