Question:

A little update on some info.  I spoke to Jeffrey Cardenas (The Saltwater Angler, www.saltwaterangler.com) and they aren’t doing anything in Abacos currently, but this was suggested (with no comment, good or bad): www.abacoflyfish.com TC, R

LOL! My wife Googled that link up last week. One of the more glossy guide sites I’ve seen, but the prices are in line with the area from other stuff we’ve read… We’re planning on 10 days down there; I figure I’ll use a guide for a day or two and then see how I do on my own. From my admittedly limited experience, if you can see bonefish* the guide is just a boat driver. And the boat rental prices down there are very reasonable… * non-trivial, kinda like those dithered-to-death "stereo images", you either get it, or you utterly don’t. I was lucky and had no problem seeing the bones in Anegada, hopefully the water is as clear and the sand flats as clean in the Abacos… /daytripper (Now if I could just spring free to fish *this* month!)

Response:

Fabulous place Fell and broke my thumb the day before I had 2 days booked with a guide called sawyer ( I Think) – fortunately he had 2 novices waiting to go and who took my cancellation – both had bones 5lb + Enjoy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -The SO has proposed Green Turtle Cay in the Abacos for our annual island trip next April. She’s been seeing lots of positive bonefishing references so she figures it’s a lock for me to go along with her schemes We’d stay at the Green Turtle Club resort/marina, fwiw. http://www.greenturtleclub.com/ And I’m looking for anyone with any direct experience with the eastern Abaco islands, the Green Turtle Club, and more importantly, the fishing! Anyone out there ever been to this place? Anyone out there do any bonefishing in the Abacos Islands? Thanks for any feedback. /daytripper (got dem bonefishin’ jones

– Charles Reaves

Response:

From my admittedly limited experience, if you can see bonefish* the guide is just a boat driver. And the boat rental prices down there are very reasonable…

They are, but you need to know the area, tides, etc., to avoid a lot of fruitless searching, and avoid tide and wind situations.  Make sure to get charts and pay particular attention to wind and tide directions and tide times. * non-trivial, kinda like those dithered-to-death "stereo images", you either get it, or you utterly don’t. I was lucky and had no problem seeing the bones in Anegada, hopefully the water is as clear and the sand flats as clean in the Abacos…

It is at least as clear as the VI.  I once dropped a lighter off a dock in the Abacos, and it could be seen on the bottom (about 20 plus feet of water – I didn’t realize quite how deep until I got down there <G). I’ve got UW pics of palometa and bones are as clear as anything taken in a perfectly-maintained swimming pool. /daytripper (Now if I could just spring free to fish *this* month!)

Er, you might wanna wait to NEXT month or the spring…<G TC, R

Response:

From my admittedly limited experience, if you can see bonefish* the guide is just a boat driver. And the boat rental prices down there are very reasonable… They are, but you need to know the area, tides, etc., to avoid a lot of fruitless searching, and avoid tide and wind situations.  Make sure to get charts and pay particular attention to wind and tide directions and tide times.

That’s what the first couple of days out with the guide are for… I’ll order up charts, especially given the boat rental, I’ll have a gps and a tide table, and hopefully things will be clear enough after a couple of days out. Granted my shallow experience (<= feeble pun) but fishing for bones isn’t very high on the rocket science scale – there are a couple of key details about bones that quickly narrow down the places one should bother working, and after a few more web hits I’m starting to get the feel for how small and *close* together the Abacos are, so I’m reasonably confident that if there are fish to be had I’ll stumble onto ‘em before too long * non-trivial, kinda like those dithered-to-death "stereo images", you either get it, or you utterly don’t. I was lucky and had no problem seeing the bones in Anegada, hopefully the water is as clear and the sand flats as clean in the Abacos… It is at least as clear as the VI.  I once dropped a lighter off a dock in the Abacos, and it could be seen on the bottom (about 20 plus feet of water – I didn’t realize quite how deep until I got down there <G). I’ve got UW pics of palometa and bones are as clear as anything taken in a perfectly-maintained swimming pool.

Excellent! I might have to spring for an underwater digicam! More toys! /daytripper (Now if I could just spring free to fish *this* month!) Er, you might wanna wait to NEXT month or the spring…<G

end around here. /daytripper (A shrink could buy his next house on my tab…)

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – From my admittedly limited experience, if you can see bonefish* the guide is just a boat driver. And the boat rental prices down there are very reasonable… They are, but you need to know the area, tides, etc., to avoid a lot of fruitless searching, and avoid tide and wind situations.  Make sure to get charts and pay particular attention to wind and tide directions and tide times. That’s what the first couple of days out with the guide are for… I’ll order up charts, especially given the boat rental, I’ll have a gps and a tide table, and hopefully things will be clear enough after a couple of days out.

Weeel, it’s not _quite_ that simple.  You’ve got the potential for 4 foot changes, and it isn’t just knowing where, it’s knowing when and where, and where the fish are moving.  The "no-boat" flats, of course, are easy (and there are a coupla-several miles of these at GTC), but with a bare boat, it can get tricky insofar as being where you want/need to be when.   You might consider renting a boat for one day, you and the wife going for a ride, and getting familiar with things.  Then get a guide for a couple of days, and rent again for a couple of days (or more – check on a weekly rate – if so, you can avoid ferry schedules altogether, weather depending).  Plus, while only natives can officially guide you, anyone can go fishing with you, and if you have boat access the entire trip, meeting a few folks from cruising boats might be productive.  And you might want to take a lighter setup for palometa, etc. (little permits, sorta like saltwater panfish) during bonefish lulls, and take some steel wire, etc. for barracuda (highly recommended for sport and dinner). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Granted my shallow experience (<= feeble pun) but fishing for bones isn’t very high on the rocket science scale – there are a couple of key details about bones that quickly narrow down the places one should bother working, and after a few more web hits I’m starting to get the feel for how small and *close* together the Abacos are, so I’m reasonably confident that if there are fish to be had I’ll stumble onto ‘em before too long * non-trivial, kinda like those dithered-to-death "stereo images", you either get it, or you utterly don’t. I was lucky and had no problem seeing the bones in Anegada, hopefully the water is as clear and the sand flats as clean in the Abacos… It is at least as clear as the VI.  I once dropped a lighter off a dock in the Abacos, and it could be seen on the bottom (about 20 plus feet of water – I didn’t realize quite how deep until I got down there <G). I’ve got UW pics of palometa and bones are as clear as anything taken in a perfectly-maintained swimming pool. Excellent! I might have to spring for an underwater digicam! More toys!

Fuji makes a disposable UW that actually works pretty good if you just want "quick and easy" – get them in the States.  Also, get a couple of decent but inexpensive masks and snorkels (also in the States) unless you are absolutely a "dry head."  And if you dive, DON’T take anything but Hawaiian slings (with extra tubing) – anything else is a no-no. TC, R

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That’s what the first couple of days out with the guide are for… I’ll order up charts, especially given the boat rental, I’ll have a gps and a tide table, and hopefully things will be clear enough after a couple of days out. Weeel, it’s not _quite_ that simple.  You’ve got the potential for 4 foot changes, and it isn’t just knowing where, it’s knowing when and where, and where the fish are moving.  The "no-boat" flats, of course, are easy (and there are a coupla-several miles of these at GTC), but with a bare boat, it can get tricky insofar as being where you want/need to be when.  

We’ll be getting the boat for the middle 7 days out of the 10 we’ll be there, looks like a 20-something foot Wellcraft CC with a 150 and t-top. Nice hefty boat – if it ends up high and dry at low tide it won’t be moved, that’s for sure. But we want to be able to roam freely for the duration, we usually take our own boat wherever we go on summer vacations, and it is usually at the center of the best times we have. I’ve been looking at satellite images of the area to the west of the reef through the island chain over to the big island and then on to the Marls, and it looks like flat water everywhere west of the reef would be the rule unless the weather is coming due north/south. You might consider renting a boat for one day, you and the wife going for a ride, and getting familiar with things.  Then get a guide for a couple of days, and rent again for a couple of days (or more – check on a weekly rate – if so, you can avoid ferry schedules altogether, weather depending).  Plus, while only natives can officially guide you, anyone can go fishing with you, and if you have boat access the entire trip, meeting a few folks from cruising boats might be productive.  And you might want to take a lighter setup for palometa, etc. (little permits, sorta like saltwater panfish) during bonefish lulls, and take some steel wire, etc. for barracuda (highly recommended for sport and dinner).

Are there any actual permits/licences one must obtain for fishing – either on foot or in a boat? That’s usually something I forget until the last day – so I’m getting a bit of a jump on things this time… /daytripper (might actually go fishing this weekend! Whoa!

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That’s what the first couple of days out with the guide are for… I’ll order up charts, especially given the boat rental, I’ll have a gps and a tide table, and hopefully things will be clear enough after a couple of days out. Weeel, it’s not _quite_ that simple.  You’ve got the potential for 4 foot changes, and it isn’t just knowing where, it’s knowing when and where, and where the fish are moving.  The "no-boat" flats, of course, are easy (and there are a coupla-several miles of these at GTC), but with a bare boat, it can get tricky insofar as being where you want/need to be when.   We’ll be getting the boat for the middle 7 days out of the 10 we’ll be there, looks like a 20-something foot Wellcraft CC with a 150 and t-top. Nice hefty boat – if it ends up high and dry at low tide it won’t be moved, that’s for sure. But we want to be able to roam freely for the duration, we usually take our own boat wherever we go on summer vacations, and it is usually at the center of the best times we have.

Heck, with that, you don’t need to worry about no steekin’ ferries…plus, that’ll allow quite a variety of fishing – you might wish to take non-FFing tackle, as well. Are there any actual permits/licences one must obtain for fishing – either on foot or in a boat? That’s usually something I forget until the last day – so I’m getting a bit of a jump on things this time…

You get them at Customs, so you don’t have much of choice, unless you wanna fly over early to get one…<G.  Ask for a "sportfishing permit" – it’s around 20-25USD.  I don’t know the status of the boat you’re renting, and with a guide, or on a Bahamian charter, you don’t need one, but if I were in your shoes, I’d just get the thing and be done with it. Bahamian Customs and other LE bodies can be a weird thing for the first-time tourist, so don’t act amused or surprised at any, er, "simple ways."  Make sure you have a couple of hundred USD in tens and twenties for the various fees, "taxes," etc. (in and out for you both, and I don’t mean bribes – it just speeds things up to have smaller bills at the ready).  Up until recently, "Customs" at the MH airport was a card table with a very friendly guy who always told you that you had nothing to declare, in and out, and to enjoy your stay…<G.  The outers particularly, and the Bahamas in general, are pretty laid back when it comes to sensible tourists who obviously plan on spending money.  My father is there quite often, and the only "trouble" in all the years of our family going was that he was pickpocketed once in Nassau, realized it as it happened, tried to grab the guy, who ran.  He then had to catch up to some folks who also gave chase and caught the guy so they didn’t beat him senseless before the cops came.  They made the guy give back the wallet and apologize in between blows. TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -/daytripper (might actually go fishing this weekend! Whoa!

Response:

I’ve done both, and am fairly familiar with out islands of the Bahamas. As to the Green Turtle Club itself, the food is good, the dockage reasonable, an we’ve had a good time when we’ve been.

We must have been there at different times. My trip 5 years ago provided horrible overcooked food at typical high prices for the area. Other dining options are limited except for a 3 mile golf cart ride to New Plymouth. On a good day the smoke from the dump goes out to sea while Brendle, the dive boat captain, will hit on anything with a skirt. My favorite place in the area is Hopetown and Elbow Cay with a little more to do and the variety to keep the trip interesting. Some cottage rentals offer an ocean view and a harbor view. I’ve never bonefished the area, but from what I’ve heard a good guide will be a big plus. A good plan is to rent a Boston Whaler and with Elbow Cay smack in the middle you can easily cover a good portion of the Abaco Sea. Marsh Harbor is just west with great diving down at Sandy Cay and an artist colony all the way south (Little Harbor?). Whatever you choose, enjoy the trip and post pics. Drew

Response:

I’ve done both, and am fairly familiar with out islands of the Bahamas. As to the Green Turtle Club itself, the food is good, the dockage reasonable, an we’ve had a good time when we’ve been. We must have been there at different times. My trip 5 years ago provided horrible overcooked food at typical high prices for the area. Other dining options are limited except for a 3 mile golf cart ride to New Plymouth. On a good day the smoke from the dump goes out to sea while Brendle, the dive boat captain, will hit on anything with a skirt.

Are you sure you aren’t thinking of the other "resort" there, the Bluff House?  Of course, as always, YMMV. My favorite place in the area is Hopetown and Elbow Cay with a little more to do and the variety to keep the trip interesting. Some cottage rentals offer an ocean view and a harbor view. I’ve never bonefished the area, but from what I’ve heard a good guide will be a big plus. A good plan is to rent a Boston Whaler and with Elbow Cay smack in the middle you can easily cover a good portion of the Abaco Sea. Marsh Harbor is just west with great diving down at Sandy Cay and an artist colony all the way south (Little Harbor?).

I would agree that basing at Marsh Harbour is _probably_ a better plan for most who are staying on land. TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Whatever you choose, enjoy the trip and post pics. Drew

Response:

We usually do these trips in April, usually the first week after the "high season".

…and…in your case, that would be when? <g jeff

Response:

We must have been there at different times. My trip 5 years ago provided horrible overcooked food at typical high prices for the area. Other dining options are limited except for a 3 mile golf cart ride to New Plymouth. On a good day the smoke from the dump goes out to sea while Brendle, the dive boat captain, will hit on anything with a skirt. Are you sure you aren’t thinking of the other "resort" there, the Bluff House?  Of course, as always, YMMV.

Nope. I’m speaking of the one right down on the water. Did eat at the Bluff House once, but it was their weekly BBQ. Not bad, but still the options are limited on that end of the cay IMO. Maybe we hit them on a bad week. My favorite place in the area is Hopetown and Elbow Cay with a little more to do and the variety to keep the trip interesting. Some cottage rentals offer an ocean view and a harbor view. I’ve never bonefished the area, but from what I’ve heard a good guide will be a big plus. A good plan is to rent a Boston Whaler and with Elbow Cay smack in the middle you can easily cover a good portion of the Abaco Sea. Marsh Harbor is just west with great diving down at Sandy Cay and an artist colony all the way south (Little Harbor?). I would agree that basing at Marsh Harbour is _probably_ a better plan for most who are staying on land.

But Marsh Harbor doesn’t give you the ocean and diving right off the beach. Hmm. ‘Bout time for another trip…. I’m out of 222s (a good pain reliever). Drew

Response:

A little update on some info.  I spoke to Jeffrey Cardenas (The Saltwater Angler, www.saltwaterangler.com) and they aren’t doing anything in Abacos currently, but this was suggested (with no comment, good or bad): www.abacoflyfish.com TC, R

Response:

I would agree that basing at Marsh Harbour is _probably_ a better plan for most who are staying on land. But Marsh Harbor doesn’t give you the ocean and diving right off the beach. Hmm. ‘Bout time for another trip…. I’m out of 222s (a good pain reliever).

Well, maybe not like the cays, but Marsh Harbour, is, well, a harbor, so there’s plenty of water.  But as you point out, (land)basing from one of the cays limits you in other ways, sometimes not well-taken by those who wish varied activity over a 10-day trip.  From MN, you can easily get to just about anywhere in the Abacos via ferry for a, pardon the pun, day trip, and while Dave fishes, his wife can shop, tour, etc.  - IIRC, she isn’t a fisher?  IOW, from MH, you can just go wherever whatever the first ferry that happens to be handy is going and likely find something, but at the cays, you might have to plan, call/radio, and/or wait, and you can just about do/see all there is to do/see in GTC in about a day and a half if you wish to "go and do." Now, all that said, I would not recommend basing from Treasure Cay (or even bothering to go for more than a half-day) as, IMO, it’s like a mini-Freeport and likely to eventually screw up the immediate surrounding area of Abacos.  Hopefully, it’ll take it in the shorts again, and this time, they’ll tear the whole flockin’ place down and be done with it. As to the codeine pills, I don’t like ‘em or trust ‘em, but ‘tripper oughta love ‘em…<G.  I think you can get a lower-strength Tylenol 3 (Tylenol 2?) in the States with a prescription.  My father swears by them, but all they do for me is make me sleepy. TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Drew

Response:

Well, maybe not like the cays, but Marsh Harbour, is, well, a harbor, so

To me, Hope Town is prettier with almost the same frequency of ferry service. Now, all that said, I would not recommend basing from Treasure Cay (or

Not even worth the time to even go there. As to the codeine pills, I don’t like ‘em or trust ‘em, but ‘tripper oughta love ‘em…<G.  I think you can get a lower-strength Tylenol 3

Codeine works different on different people. For those who may benefit it is legal to bring in 100 tablets per person. Drew

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, maybe not like the cays, but Marsh Harbour, is, well, a harbor, so To me, Hope Town is prettier with almost the same frequency of ferry service. Now, all that said, I would not recommend basing from Treasure Cay (or Not even worth the time to even go there. As to the codeine pills, I don’t like ‘em or trust ‘em, but ‘tripper oughta love ‘em…<G.  I think you can get a lower-strength Tylenol 3 Codeine works different on different people. For those who may benefit it is legal to bring in 100 tablets per person. Drew

I’m surrounded by lightweights!  ;-) From the years of suffering with that damaged disc that was cleaned up this spring I squirreled away enough stuff to whack a herd of rhinos for a week with a multi-colored hail of doses. MMMmmm…doses….! And none of it has that godawful liver-killing should-never-have-passed-muster-with-the-FDA Tylenol. /daytripper (Go big or go home: Oxycodone and Oxycontin rule!  ;-)

Response:

We usually do these trips in April, usually the first week after the "high season". …and…in your case, that would be when? <g jeff

Well…um….that would be…er…well….hmmm…. /daytripper ("Quickly! To the laboratory!")

Response:

The SO has proposed Green Turtle Cay in the Abacos for our annual island trip next April. She’s been seeing lots of positive bonefishing references so she figures it’s a lock for me to go along with her schemes We’d stay at the Green Turtle Club resort/marina, fwiw. http://www.greenturtleclub.com/ And I’m looking for anyone with any direct experience with the eastern Abaco islands, the Green Turtle Club, and more importantly, the fishing! Anyone out there ever been to this place? Anyone out there do any bonefishing in the Abacos Islands? Thanks for any feedback. /daytripper (got dem bonefishin’ jones

Response:

Anyone out there ever been to this place? Anyone out there do any bonefishing in the Abacos Islands? Thanks for any feedback. /daytripper (got dem bonefishin’ jones

    a former law partner of mine has often visited his father’s "cottage" on green turtle cay.  i will try to check with him and report back. yfitons wayno

Response:

Anyone out there ever been to this place? Anyone out there do any bonefishing in the Abacos Islands? Thanks for any feedback. /daytripper (got dem bonefishin’ jones    a former law partner of mine has often visited his father’s "cottage" on green turtle cay.  i will try to check with him and report back. yfitons wayno

Thanks mfitons!

Response:

well now… this sounds like an opportunity for several of us with SOs(note the lack of apostrophe) to get some SO approval… so, when will you and your wife be sponsoring this vacation a/k/a excuse for bonefishing? jeff (who knows somebody who knows somebody thats got an abacos spot) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The SO has proposed Green Turtle Cay in the Abacos for our annual island trip next April. She’s been seeing lots of positive bonefishing references so she figures it’s a lock for me to go along with her schemes We’d stay at the Green Turtle Club resort/marina, fwiw. http://www.greenturtleclub.com/ And I’m looking for anyone with any direct experience with the eastern Abaco islands, the Green Turtle Club, and more importantly, the fishing! Anyone out there ever been to this place? Anyone out there do any bonefishing in the Abacos Islands? Thanks for any feedback. /daytripper (got dem bonefishin’ jones

Response:

The SO has proposed Green Turtle Cay in the Abacos for our annual island trip next April. She’s been seeing lots of positive bonefishing references so she figures it’s a lock for me to go along with her schemes We’d stay at the Green Turtle Club resort/marina, fwiw. http://www.greenturtleclub.com/ And I’m looking for anyone with any direct experience with the eastern Abaco islands, the Green Turtle Club, and more importantly, the fishing! Anyone out there ever been to this place? Anyone out there do any bonefishing in the Abacos Islands? Thanks for any feedback.

I’ve done both, and am fairly familiar with out islands of the Bahamas. As to the Green Turtle Club itself, the food is good, the dockage reasonable, an we’ve had a good time when we’ve been.  I glanced at the site, and I’d say it’s pretty representative – in fact, I think I have some pictures taken in the dining room and patio area, and they look a lot like those on the site.   Really, it depends on what you want.  If you want moderate isolation, Green Turtle is fairly so, but not ridiculously so.  If you want a little more to do, and don’t want a boat, you could stay at Marsh Harbour and ferry to the Cays (Green Turtle has a ferry service from MH to GTC, and there are plenty of ferry services around the Abacos). Also, GTC has several other accommodation options, such as cottages and houses, that I see in a newspaper from earlier in the year. The outers are a little different from the "tourist" island areas like Freeport and Nassau, and, IMO, are like no other area in the world.  You have yachts (and I mean YACHTS) that cruise the area, but it is all pretty casual and laid-back.  If you want more info on the area, drop me an email.   IMO, the best deal going in places like the Abacos, USVI/BVI, etc. is to rent a boat (pref. sail, but a trawler if you must) and cruise the islands.  The general area is easy sailing (although you must pay attention to tide times) with lots of areas to visit, dive, fish, party, or whatever.  Room rates run 200.00-plus USD a day, plus taxes, additional charges, meal plans, etc., and for about the same money, you can get a boat – of course, YMMV.  If you are interested, Moorings has a location in MH, or check any of the boating/sailing mags like Motorboating & Sailing, Yachting, Sailing, etc. TC, R PS – FWIW, the members of certain yacht clubs get discounts at many of the clubs in the Bahamas, or at least reciprocation, and that may be worth looking into, if applicable for you. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -/daytripper (got dem bonefishin’ jones

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The SO has proposed Green Turtle Cay in the Abacos for our annual island trip next April. She’s been seeing lots of positive bonefishing references so she figures it’s a lock for me to go along with her schemes We’d stay at the Green Turtle Club resort/marina, fwiw. http://www.greenturtleclub.com/ And I’m looking for anyone with any direct experience with the eastern Abaco islands, the Green Turtle Club, and more importantly, the fishing! Anyone out there ever been to this place? Anyone out there do any bonefishing in the Abacos Islands? Thanks for any feedback. /daytripper (got dem bonefishin’ jones well now… this sounds like an opportunity for several of us with SOs(note the lack of apostrophe) to get some SO approval… so, when will you and your wife be sponsoring this vacation a/k/a excuse for bonefishing? jeff (who knows somebody who knows somebody thats got an abacos spot)

We usually do these trips in April, usually the first week after the "high season". We’re still shopping around the Abacos but I think Herself has seen enough to make her "half" of the decision… /daytripper (that would be the big half, of course

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The SO has proposed Green Turtle Cay in the Abacos for our annual island trip next April. She’s been seeing lots of positive bonefishing references so she figures it’s a lock for me to go along with her schemes We’d stay at the Green Turtle Club resort/marina, fwiw. http://www.greenturtleclub.com/ And I’m looking for anyone with any direct experience with the eastern Abaco islands, the Green Turtle Club, and more importantly, the fishing! Anyone out there ever been to this place? Anyone out there do any bonefishing in the Abacos Islands? Thanks for any feedback. I’ve done both, and am fairly familiar with out islands of the Bahamas. As to the Green Turtle Club itself, the food is good, the dockage reasonable, an we’ve had a good time when we’ve been.  I glanced at the site, and I’d say it’s pretty representative – in fact, I think I have some pictures taken in the dining room and patio area, and they look a lot like those on the site.   Really, it depends on what you want.  If you want moderate isolation, Green Turtle is fairly so, but not ridiculously so.  If you want a little more to do, and don’t want a boat, you could stay at Marsh Harbour and ferry to the Cays (Green Turtle has a ferry service from MH to GTC, and there are plenty of ferry services around the Abacos). Also, GTC has several other accommodation options, such as cottages and houses, that I see in a newspaper from earlier in the year. The outers are a little different from the "tourist" island areas like Freeport and Nassau, and, IMO, are like no other area in the world.  You have yachts (and I mean YACHTS) that cruise the area, but it is all pretty casual and laid-back.  If you want more info on the area, drop me an email.   IMO, the best deal going in places like the Abacos, USVI/BVI, etc. is to rent a boat (pref. sail, but a trawler if you must) and cruise the islands.  The general area is easy sailing (although you must pay attention to tide times) with lots of areas to visit, dive, fish, party, or whatever.  Room rates run 200.00-plus USD a day, plus taxes, additional charges, meal plans, etc., and for about the same money, you can get a boat – of course, YMMV.  If you are interested, Moorings has a location in MH, or check any of the boating/sailing mags like Motorboating & Sailing, Yachting, Sailing, etc. TC, R PS – FWIW, the members of certain yacht clubs get discounts at many of the clubs in the Bahamas, or at least reciprocation, and that may be worth looking into, if applicable for you. /daytripper (got dem bonefishin’ jones

"I wouldn’t join a yagt…yauht….BOAT club that would have me as a member!" <attributable_to_someone_noteworthy_I_am_soooo_sure Thanks for the start, Richard. My wife and I enjoyed the heck out of Anegada, population under 100 and which I’d call "severely isolated", compared to Green Turtle Cay – which looks to be fairly teeming with humanity and is a short boat ride to a whole lot of touristy stuff by comparison. But if the fishing is good enough I’ll put up with a lot We had considered the Tiamo resort on south Andros, but someone or something put the wife onto this place, hence the grape vine initiative… I’m not sure that the spousal unit is ready for a week and a half on a boat, though the idea has it’s intrigue. She’s done day sails on schooners and didn’t go green, so there’s a possibility she’ll surprise me. I shall bounce it off Herself and note her first reaction (the only one that counts I plan on at least renting a boat, hopefully a center console in the 20 foot range while we’re wherever we’re going to be. I’ve looked at the rates and they seem more than reasonable ("Wait’ll you see the boat, though!" We had also considered a different place closer to the Marls on the western side of Abaco, but my wife read that the guides that work out of the eastern cays can scoot over to the Marls quickly enough. The scale of these islands escapes me,  seems much smaller than I had imagined. Again, thanks for the feedback, if you have more on the GTC thing I’d appreciate it (as email if you prefer). /daytripper

Response:

Question:

Bob, If either of you go, or any Roffian for that matter, please try to find these guys and let me know: Acheson Technologies, LLC 6337 South Jamaica court Englewood, CO 80111 (888) 302-0067 They allegedly manufacture the RodRack, which transports fully assembled fly rods on the exterior of vehicles. Rod locks inside unit, unit locks to vehicle. El Paso Bob with another fly fishing specific question – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   Is the Denver FF show coming up on Jan. 6 & 7th a worthwhile event? Any Roffers going?  Normally, I wouldn’t drive that far but I have a daughter (and sis-in law) in Denver and there’s always shopping for the wife.  (Might have to drop by Charlie’s and pick up some more books.) Snoop

Response:

Thanks for the heads-up on this show. Where is it being held? I haven’t seen any ads for it.

Response:

There is a web site with a complete list of things going on at www.flyfishingshow.com Laurence

Response:

  Is the Denver FF show coming up on Jan. 6 & 7th a worthwhile event? Any Roffers going?  Normally, I wouldn’t drive that far but I have a daughter (and sis-in law) in Denver and there’s always shopping for the wife.  (Might have to drop by Charlie’s and pick up some more books.) Snoop — —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

I picked up a brochure, and it looks like it will be a pretty good show. This is the first year for a show of this format in Denver, but it looks pretty good, with world renowned tyers, book signings, and all sorts of demos. I’ll even put you up for a night or two, if you’re so inclined.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   Is the Denver FF show coming up on Jan. 6 & 7th a worthwhile event? Any Roffers going?  Normally, I wouldn’t drive that far but I have a daughter (and sis-in law) in Denver and there’s always shopping for the wife.  (Might have to drop by Charlie’s and pick up some more books.) Snoop — —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

I picked up a brochure, and it looks like it will be a pretty good show. This is the first year for a show of this format in Denver, but it looks pretty good, with world renowned tyers, book signings, and all sorts of demos. I’ll even put you up for a night or two, if you’re so inclined.

Charlie,   Thanks for your kind offer.  Got beer????   I’m heading to the Bighorn tomorrow for a couple of days.  I’ll see what kind of shape I’m in when I return & decide whether or not to make the trip.  I would like to visit you and Pat for one day if I come down.  I suppose I should visit my daughter too, but she doesn’t fish:)   Are you going to the show? Snoop — —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

  Is the Denver FF show coming up on Jan. 6 & 7th a worthwhile event? Any Roffers going?  Normally, I wouldn’t drive that far but I have a daughter (and sis-in law) in Denver and there’s always shopping for the wife.  (Might have to drop by Charlie’s and pick up some more books.) Snoop

Charlie Framinski show is on the 6th & 7th of January.  Chuck says the turn out will be at least 4 – 5,000 people, which is a lot of fly fishermen.  Doug Swisher and I will be attending.  I will have a rather straight forward, plain booth with some of our general products along with bamboo fly rods anyone is welcome to inspect and see for themselves what is is we are doing today. Shopping in general at the Mart is a rather complete place from what I understand.  I think the show is at the intersection of I-25 & I-70, which is the MouseTrap area of Denver.  There is a Quality Inn on the location, I understand.  Its been a while since I’ve been in that area but I did live in Colorado for many years.   I will be landing at Jefferson County Airport and will just rent a car. This show is 100% FLY FISHING, so the turn out won’t be in the hundreds of thousands as they are with all purpose sports shows Snoop.  Yet, I’m going to attend and may be in Denver on or before Friday because I think the booths set up on Friday, is my guess.  I just got the packet but haven’t had time to read it yet. I think it may well be your while to attend, if only to try some fly casting and getting some bargains on all sorts of fly fishing stuff. These shows are usually good places to find fly tying materials and for getting good ideas. Hope to see you there.  Drop by and say hello.  Hope this helps others who are thinking of attending Chucks All Fly Fishing Sports Show in Denver this coming weekend. — (C) George Gehrke 2001 http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html     fine bamboo flyrods & blanks

Response:

I understand the Denver Fly Fishing Show is next weekend. There is a remote possibility I will drive over from Kansas. Any of the Colorado poster’s going to try and attend? Wayne

Response:

I understand the Denver Fly Fishing Show is next weekend. There is a remote possibility I will drive over from Kansas. Any of the Colorado poster’s going to try and attend?

      Ain’t gonna "try" to attend, I will absolutely be there. Last years’ show was the first time they’ve done the all-flyfishing format, and it was a great cure for cabin fever. This year’s show promises to be even better.       How shall we try to spot each other? Pink bridesmaid’s hats?

Response:

i am planning on dropping by…haven’t been before… thought i might check it out… richard / colorado

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I understand the Denver Fly Fishing Show is next weekend. There is a remote possibility I will drive over from Kansas. Any of the Colorado poster’s going to try and attend? Wayne

Response:

      How shall we try to spot each other? Pink bridesmaid’s hats?

I’ll be coming from Kansas, look for the Ruby Slippers As I said, it is a REMOTE possibility, due to driving the daughter to the Wichita airport on Friday and some other such stuff. If it looks like I can make it, I’ll send you an email late Friday night or early Sat morning before I leave with my pager and cell number so we can meet up. That is, if you were going to be there in the afternoon. Wayne

Response:

"Wayne Knight" As I said, it is a REMOTE possibility, due to driving the daughter to the Wichita airport on Friday and some other such stuff. If it looks like I can make it, I’ll send you an email late Friday night or early Sat morning before I leave with my pager and cell number so we can meet up. That is, if you were going to be there in the afternoon.

     Okee doke. Don’t be offended if I don’t answer anything prior to Fri evening, we’re heading over to Aspen in a couple of hours and won’t be back until late Fri.

Response:

I understand the Denver Fly Fishing Show is next weekend. There is a remote possibility I will drive over from Kansas. Any of the Colorado poster’s going to try and attend?

I’ll meet you in the Cathy Beck autograph line at noon. — The Halfordian Golfer

Response:

Wayne Knight: I understand the Denver Fly Fishing Show is next weekend. There is a remote possibility I will drive over from Kansas. Any of the Colorado poster’s going to try and attend?

Charlie Wilson:       How shall we try to spot each other? Pink bridesmaid’s hats?

I should be easy to find. I’ll be wearing a flannel shirt and a ball cap. (Seriously though, it shouldn’t be too hard to come up with something more or less unique. Bolo ties would do the trick. After all, it’s either that or else those giant foam rubber cowboy hats.) — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyoming

Response:

Question:

Several people e-mailed, asking if these stories are true…….

Never doubted your veracity myself.  As a matter of fact, it never occurred to me to wonder whether or not any of your stories are true.  Now that the subject has been broached, I am forced to wonder why anyone would concern him or her self with such a question.  There is no doubt in my feeble little mind that "Huckleberry Finn", "Gulliver’s Travels", and perhaps even "A Midsummer Night’s Dream" would fail the test of scholarly historiography.  Should this prove to be the case, I suspect that they would all nevertheless continue to draw readers and furthermore, that it would not detract one whit from the truth contained in these timeless stories. In other words, fuck ‘em.  You go Mike. Wolfgang

Response:

Several people e-mailed, asking if these stories are true, and if so, how on earth such things could happen to me…

Hi Mike, I do enjoy this stuff: up to your usual form. I have tried to e-mail you privately, but have had no replies. Is it not getting through? Best & Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

Response:

Had a little problem with some software. Maybe that is the reason ?  I saw no posts from you recently. Lookout Distress is once again living up to its name, coupled with the arcane machinations of the German Telecom, it makes Brown trucks look like heavenly chariots. TL MC — "Where fishing is concerned, most anglers are basically manic excessives" http://www.mikeconnor.de – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Several people e-mailed, asking if these stories are true, and if so, how on earth such things could happen to me… Hi Mike, I do enjoy this stuff: up to your usual form. I have tried to e-mail you privately, but have had no replies. Is it not getting through? Best & Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

Response:

Thanks Chris,  very kind of you to say so. Care must be taken in some instances though, not all of my exploits and methods are suitable for emulation. My track record with poachers for instance is quite abysmal. TL MC – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – —- Mike, I for one enjoy your vast knowledge and experiences.  I never thought for a moment that they did not ring of truth and I have employed some of your past suggestions with success, I might mention.

Response:

I had trouble shooting Teel when I first started duck hunting.  It was because they fly much faster than the other ducks.  I consistently shot behind them.  I finally got so I could hit one, but never could hit a Snipe. Ernie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you spend a great deal of time and energy on something, several things tend to occur. You  become fairly good at it, and you experience a lot more things than if you only occasionally did it. A few weeks ago, I was out duck hunting (OBROFF: gathering CDC feathers.)  I had just flushed a flock of mallards out of a slough, and I was crouched down in the grass hoping some of them might come back, when a pair of blue wing teal appeared out of nowhere, crossed in front of me and settled on opposite edge of the water, out of range. I sat still for another 15 minutes or so with one eye on the teal and one eye on the horizon, where the mallards were still flying.  There was a sound of wingbeats overhead and suddenly there was an enormous redtailed hawk, hot in pursuit of the teal.  The teal dove underwater, but the water was only a foot or so deep so the hawk had no trouble following them, hovering over the water, wings beating furiously like a huge kestrel.  The teal eventually made good their escape, flying right past me.  I suppose I could have shot them fairly easily, but it didn’t seem quite right.  I just stared, filled with awe and wonderment at my good fortune to have been a witness. I would have never seen it happen if I hadn’t been out there, and what possible other reason could I have to be crouched down in the weeds next to a slough out on the prairie?  I think I have posted before my belief that the reason we go out hunting or fishing or whatever is not so much to gather fish or game (unless we seriously need the food), but to gather interesting stories to tell.  The fishing is fun, but it is also a reason to get out of the house and out into the world and let things happen to us. Kevin

Response:

Several people e-mailed, asking if these stories are true, and if so, how on earth such things could happen to me.  I have attempted to explain this in the past, I seem to remember even on here, but for those who missed it the first time, ( assuming I did in fact explain it before on here), here it is again.

<snipped, but deeply appreciated —- Mike, I for one enjoy your vast knowledge and experiences.  I never thought for a moment that they did not ring of truth and I have employed some of your past suggestions with success, I might mention.  The reason some people may question your veracity could be that the have led colorless lives themselves and are judging your life experience against the standard of being a spector of life instead of participating in life as you have. In a given week, I tend to do a lot of different things.  When someone asked me how I did so many things, I told them, simply, "I do not own a television."  I have a VCR player hooked to a video monitor for some of my instructional videos that I own, but I NEVER watch television.  Since the average American, according to one source, watches an astounding 40+ hours of television a week, it is small wonder where I find the "extra" time to indulge myself in my many varied interests. —- Padishar Creel "I don’t want to achieve immortality through my work…I want to achieve it through not dying."  – Woody Allen

Response:

Thanks Chris,  very kind of you to say so. Care must be taken in some instances though, not all of my exploits and methods are suitable for emulation. My track record with poachers for instance is quite abysmal.

—– So is my experience with Game Wardens, as it so happens <G — Padishar Creel "I don’t want to achieve immortality through my work…I want to achieve it through not dying."  – Woody Allen

Response:

Mike,   Some have doubted the veracity of my many misadventures, but any doubts were laid to rest at the Rappahanock Clave (read Frank meets tent stake).   Your stories are so wonderful because we, as a group, can identify with the situations.  As a whole, I’m sure it would take the combined experience of ROFF to match your own.  We thank you for sharing yours. We will not match yours (thinking about going beak to beak with an owl is a tough way to get into PETA’s bad boy book. Go strangle a pheasant me boyo.  Very proper that.).  We will however, experience that vicarious thrill of looking at the world through your eyes as we slog through the day-to-day life with our commutes and lousy jobs.    Your every story conjurs up the fun of a Guy Fawkesian tale.  You have the unwitting anti-hero (you), the protagonist (the sea,a crazed bus driver, a policeman), an injured victim (an owl or the bloomin bloomerless WI) and a common thread of life just outside of the bounds of control, a train wreck waiting to happen.    I will often piggy back on your stories.  Like stories around a campfire, or more properly, in front of a fire in a ghillie hut, single malt in hand, they become seeds for other stories and ROFF threads. I’m glad you’re back.      Frank Reid Before you buy.

Response:

I would have never seen it happen if I hadn’t been out there, and what possible other reason could I have to be crouched down in the weeds next to a slough out on the prairie?  

That’s an astonishing observation, Kevin. I’ve felt the same thing on many occasions. People who don’t hunt or fish can’t really understand what it’s like to experience this stuff. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

I had trouble shooting Teel when I first started duck hunting.  It was because they fly much faster than the other ducks.  I consistently shot behind them.  I finally got so I could hit one, but never could hit a Snipe. Ernie

Too bad, Keith at Grindstone Angling has been bugging me about finding him some snipe.  I could’ve gotten a pretty penny out of him if you were any good.  :)  I was holding out on him, but he recently got his own computer and you’d never guess who he dug up all by hisself. Mike, truth always has been stranger than fiction.  I look on your stories as a life spent in an endless "Carry On" movie.  There are far worse fates.  :)   A rich life always appears untrue to those who rarely try to extend their lives beyond the poverty of their spirit. Peter

Response:

If you spend a great deal of time and energy on something, several things tend to occur. You  become fairly good at it, and you experience a lot more things than if you only occasionally did it.

A few weeks ago, I was out duck hunting (OBROFF: gathering CDC feathers.)  I had just flushed a flock of mallards out of a slough, and I was crouched down in the grass hoping some of them might come back, when a pair of blue wing teal appeared out of nowhere, crossed in front of me and settled on opposite edge of the water, out of range. I sat still for another 15 minutes or so with one eye on the teal and one eye on the horizon, where the mallards were still flying.  There was a sound of wingbeats overhead and suddenly there was an enormous redtailed hawk, hot in pursuit of the teal.  The teal dove underwater, but the water was only a foot or so deep so the hawk had no trouble following them, hovering over the water, wings beating furiously like a huge kestrel.  The teal eventually made good their escape, flying right past me.  I suppose I could have shot them fairly easily, but it didn’t seem quite right.  I just stared, filled with awe and wonderment at my good fortune to have been a witness. I would have never seen it happen if I hadn’t been out there, and what possible other reason could I have to be crouched down in the weeds next to a slough out on the prairie?  I think I have posted before my belief that the reason we go out hunting or fishing or whatever is not so much to gather fish or game (unless we seriously need the food), but to gather interesting stories to tell.  The fishing is fun, but it is also a reason to get out of the house and out into the world and let things happen to us. Kevin

Response:

Several people e-mailed, asking if these stories are true, and if so, how on earth such things could happen to me.  I have attempted to explain this in the past, I seem to remember even on here, but for those who missed it the first time, ( assuming I did in fact explain it before on here), here it is again. Well, first of all, for quite a long time, I was so fanatical about fishing, that I often went seven days a week, I did not much care where, or for what, I simply took every available opportunity, and even if none was apparently available, I made one. Sometimes I only went for an hour, school, work, and other things allowing, ( and often even if they did not allow it, school bored me to death, and I rarely attended, I went fishing instead), and sometimes I disappeared for days, or even weeks. During these times, all I did was fish, and read, and what I read was also mostly about fishing. When I first started seriously fishing, the main reason was to catch fish for food. As it was absolutely imperative that I catch something to eat, I did not mess about very much, if at all, I made a point of discovering the best methods, ( for "best", read,  "most successful in terms of edible fish caught "), and applied them diligently, with considerable success. Not all of these methods were equally enjoyable, some were certainly not "fair", although to me all were enjoyable to some extent, (even hauling nets at sea, or longlining, which I also did for a while), but most were extremely successful, when correctly practiced, and as enjoyment was not the main driving factor, this did not really matter in any case. What I am trying to explain here, is that the enjoyment was more or less completely incidental initially. Fishing was not a way of "killing time", or "pursuing an interest", "a hobby", or all the other various euphemisms one often hears for various pastimes. It was a way of obtaining food for nothing, and it was also very cheap, healthy,  and fulfilling entertainment. I never considered fishing, or anything even remotely connected with it to be  work, although I knew a few who did. If you spend a great deal of time and energy on something, several things tend to occur. You  become fairly good at it, and you experience a lot more things than if you only occasionally did it. If the subject also interests you per se, and you also perhaps have a certain talent for it,  then you get even better at it, you really have no choice in the matter, it is a simple progression. One thing leads to another. Before I was twenty years old I had caught more fish, and spent more time on the water, often in the company of experts, than many men will ever do in their whole lifetimes. For years I gave lessons in tying and casting to various local clubs, spent weekends teaching fly-fishing for the local water authority, giving fly-dressing demos at various fairs, ( long before tying became as popular as it is now), etc etc etc. In the years that followed, the frequency of my trips decreased of course, you may play truant from school with relative impunity, but if you play truant from work you will eventually be sacked.( Fired ! ). Nevertheless, I still managed to spend a great deal of time on the water, or involved in some way. I had become firm friends with many other anglers, and people connected with angling, and because of this, I received opportunities which others did not. Anything to do with fishing interested me, and I went out of my way to be part of anything at all where fish or fishing was involved.  All the time my interest remained steady, and I read every book or magazine that I could lay my hands on. When I got the chance, I went fishing with others, some of them already world or at least nationally renowned experts at that time, others perhaps less well known, but experts nonetheless, and of course with lots of other people, who were neither well known nor experts. All contributed to my angling education. Much of what I read, learned, or simply saw,  I immediately put into practice. What I could not buy, I built, ( basically why I started tying flies as well ), insofar as it was within my capabilities to do so. Astoundingly enough, one discovers fairly early on that most things are not that hard to do, what one man can invent or design, another man can build, given reasonable intelligence,  time, persistence,  and materials. Simply attempting this, hones your capabilities automatically, until you reach a point where you find very few things difficult. At a fairly early point during these years, the need to catch fish for food decreased, and eventually disappeared entirely, but my enthusiasm for fishing did not, and I continued reading about it, and fishing a great deal, but now purely for enjoyment, the fish having become an incidental bonus to the entertainment, and so it has remained to this day. Apparently I have a very selective, but almost photographic memory, for things concerning fishing. It took me almost fifteen years before I finally managed to remember my wife’s birthday, but I only have to see a fly pattern once, and it is fixed forever in my memory.  I can not remember my own mobile phone number for more than a day, and constantly have to look it up, but I can remember every single run on every single river or stream I have ever fished with brilliant clarity. Even those I fished over thirty years ago. Although a fairly good navigator, and with an excellent sense of direction, I can not remember a street in a city which I visited last week, but I can find my way across the North York Moors, from any point you care to mention, to any stream or valley within hundreds of square miles with absolutely pin-point accuracy, in the pitch dark, with no moon or stars and in heavy snow or fog. I can do the same here, in the Lueneburger Heide. I have no idea why I can do this, or even how, I just can. I wish I did know, I would certainly apply the talent to something else if I possibly could. I can not remember whether it rained yesterday, but  I can remember  every sizeable fish I have ever caught, where I caught it, how I caught it, and what the weather conditions were at the time. I can "see" these things in my mind, like a film which may be rewound and replayed at will.  I could give more examples, but I suppose you get the drift. Regarding actually fishing, if I absolutely must catch a fish, then I do, I do not find it particularly difficult. Nowadays I do not bother with extremely productive methods much, as I find other methods more enjoyable, even though they are less productive.  The size of fish caught has ceased to bother me very much, although it is nice to catch a large one now and then, as the fight is simply more interesting and challenging. Somebody on here said ( I believe it was Willi actually ), some time ago now, that he had more or less ceased nymphing, as although it was extremely productive in terms of fish, it was hard work, and got boring after a while.  I feel much the same about some methods. It is just too easy, although perhaps hard work, and therefore not worth the bother.  This doubtless sounds extremely arrogant, but it is nevertheless simple fact. Catching one very difficult fish from a challenging position, or for other reasons, ( actually regardless of size ) is much more enjoyable than banging out a dozen in double quick time with an easy method, or because the fish are madly on the feed, and have thrown caution to the winds. Unfortunately this applies to many "new" methods as well. There are not many angling books I have not read, and there are not many methods, tackle, or materials,  I do not at least know something about. Once read or seen, never forgotten. I can even remember shotting patterns somebody once showed me, again over thirty years ago. Often I am quite amused when I read about some "new" method of tying flies, or casting, or a host of other things. Invariably these things are not new at all, and in all likelihood have been around for quite a while, in some cases for centuries. I remember being extremely crushed over thirty five years ago, when I sent in a parachute version of the Greenwell

Question:

Beeswax, among other various uses, is one of the few materials used for lining moulds etc in the food  and confectionery trades for preventing particularly sticky sweets from sticking. They are known as release, or separation agents.  Glue is not used for this purpose. Bees use wax as a construction material, not as a glue. The whole construction of the comb is pure wax.  Glue is a foreign substance used to join similar or dissimilar materials. Paraffin wax is used for similar purposes to beeswax in other areas. Practically nothing will stick to a polished wax surface. Both of these waxes, and indeed a number of other substances may be used to prevent ferrules "binding". In this sense they are used partly as lubricants, and partly as solid separating agents. Binding ( in the case of carbon fibre, and other rod ferrules),is invariably caused by a substance rubbing against an identical substance, especially when the joint is tapered.    Wax of practically any sort will prevent this for varying periods of time, depending on how often the joint is used. Hard white wax works best, lasts longest, and is cheap and  convenient to use. Solid beeswax will stick to more or less nothing apart from itself, and only then when it is warm enough to melt, and the same applies to solid paraffin wax.  Most especially so, when polished after application. Liquid waxes, and other substances used for lubrication, like various oils etc, will indeed stick to things, trap dust, grit etc, and the lubricant coat providing the separation of surfaces will break down much more rapidly, simply because it will flow away. Hard polished wax will neither stick to things, nor will it flow away.  It is also intrinsically waterproof. This makes it ideal for treating ferrules. Some info on wax may be obtained here: http://www.wetestit.com/wax.htm Personally I don

Question:

playing the fish I was shocked to discover a Channel Catfish (~3 lbs.) on the end of my line!!  I have never seen a catfish take a fly, but was even more astounded that it had taken a dry fly!!

Thanks for the post David.From another flatlander.I too am adicted to bluegills on a 3-weight.(you can’t have too many good 3-weight rods.)I enjoy taking catfish on my 3-weight rods, but have not been able to figure out how to do it on a more than once in a while basis and then seldom on the surface.My experience is that they are hell  on leaders, but who cares after a 20 minute fight? Big Dale PS My latest 3 weight Scott purchased from E-Bay was delivered by the postman yesterday. I had a good  visit with the postman who is another flyfisherman. Should be on my favorite bluegill pond about daybreak to check out the new rod.

Response:

which I am only able to read. So maybe you can tell us… Which came first?

I am sure Indian Joe will be able to give first hand knowledge to George. God would’nt you like to be a fly on the wall at that event!!!!! Big Dale

Response:

Lurking for 4 years!!??  Man, you must have the patience of a saint to stay out of some of these threads.  This past Tuesday I returned from a 7 day trip to Alaska, to find over 1,000 posts accumulated here on ROFF….I read most of them. (certain people on here are always worth reading)  After reading, it once again became clear to me why I am still here after nearly 5 years, this damned NG is not only enlightening, but entertaining as well.  If you want or need a comparison with a similar to that group too for more than 5 years.  This is a ‘moderated’ group, with the listowner who controls the content, ie: no flame wars, keep the to dress up, put on my Sunday best and behave while I’m there.  Over here, HA!  just amble on in wearing nothing but my boxers and a 3 day it’s just that this motley bunch has much more to offer in the way of entertainment value.  To quote our Mr G…"God, I love this place!" — Frank Church Elkhart, IN USAF  RET.

|Greetings.  I have been lurking in this group for about 4 years, but |have been completely satisfied with just reading the different posts. |Now I am ready to join in the melee with a report of my own. | |Being a flatlander my main quarry is the largemouth bass and the |bluegill, and the other night (after work) I felt the need to bend a |rod.  I went to a local farm pond to catch a few bluegill.  I grabbed |my trusty 3 wt. and the appropriate boxes of flies to go after some |wary bluegill.  I tied on a sponge spider and immediately caught |several bluegill.  I decided to change flies and selected a Madame X |to see if I could entice more bluegill to jump on my line. | |Imagine my surprise when my rod almost came out of my hands.  Before I |knew what was happening my rod was bent over and my pile of slack line |was beginning to disappear!  I knew I had a larger fish and figured it |was a bass.  The problem was I didn’t know how big and whether, or |not, it would break my 1.5 pound tippet.  After 20 minutes, or so, of |playing the fish I was shocked to discover a Channel Catfish (~3 lbs.) |on the end of my line!!  I have never seen a catfish take a fly, but |was even more astounded that it had taken a dry fly!! | |I guess it just goes to show that fly fishing is always an adventure. |BTW, the bluegill action continued until dark once I got over the |shock of catching the catfish. | |David R. Felter |"The mind is like a parachute.  It doesn’t work if it’s not opened." |

Response:

Love it! I have seen and caught catfish on a fly – nymph fished extremely slow on the bottom though.  It is a rare occurrence.

During the whitefly hatch in July and August on the Susquehanna river, catching catfish on drys and emergers is fairly common, although I have never caught one of the big cats I know are in the river when fishing on the surface.  After a while you can tell the difference between a catfish rise and a smallmouth rise and target either species.  The catfish fight more like an old tire – no match for the smallies. Mark Faulkner

Response:

Lurking for 4 years!!??  Man, y

Frank, did ya catch any in AK? –Walt

Response:

I have been using the Madame X tied in black on a size 10 hook in late summer and early fall for the past several years. It is *very* effective on trout from early September until the first hard frost. I think it represents a cricket, but it might just be an attactor. I havn’t tried it on warmwater fish, but I suspect it would be deadly on bass and sunfish. George Adams

Response:

Lurking for 4 years!!??  Man, you must have the patience of a saint to stay out of some of these threads.  

<snipped It has tried my patience occassionally, but two little girls were taking too much of my time to get involved in a good (?) C&R discussion, or whether George was spamming, or fishing has become too high tech, or whether a seperate tying news group is a good idea (going back a couple of years), etc.  :-)     Anyway the girls are older and I have a _little_ more free time to become involved in the discussions.  So watch out!  :-) David R. Felter "The mind is like a parachute.  It doesn’t work if it’s not opened."

Response:

It has tried my patience occassionally, but two little girls were taking too much of my time to get involved in a good (?) C&R discussion, or whether George was spamming, or fishing has become too high tech, or whether a seperate tying news group is a good idea (going back a couple of years), etc.  :-)

You do go back a ways.  The fact that you’re still here should be, well, disturbing to your family and friends. Anyway the girls are older and I have a _little_ more free time to become involved in the discussions.  So watch out!  :-)

I have two girls who were little once, but quite mysteriously have become young women who need to be shielded from certain attorneys in the old north state, lest their hearts be forever captured.  Anyhow, enjoy their presence now for they are too soon gone. Mark Faulkner – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

I have two girls who were little once, but quite mysteriously have become young women who need to be shielded from certain attorneys in the old north state, lest their hearts be forever captured.  Anyhow, enjoy their presence now for they are too soon gone. Mark Faulkner

        you know, markey, i meant to talk with you about those little rascals; i mean, where could be the harm in a couple picture exchanges and a few nights reading the advance sheets together…         wayno, who wouldn’t *dare*. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Love it! I have seen and caught catfish on a fly – nymph fished extremely slow on the bottom though.  It is a rare occurrence. Now the important question – What’s the pattern for the MadamX? I know rubberlegs tend to drive Bluegill crazy. — Bill Endicott – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Greetings.  I have been lurking in this group for about 4 years, but have been completely satisfied with just reading the different posts. Now I am ready to join in the melee with a report of my own. Being a flatlander my main quarry is the largemouth bass and the bluegill, and the other night (after work) I felt the need to bend a rod.  I went to a local farm pond to catch a few bluegill.  I grabbed my trusty 3 wt. and the appropriate boxes of flies to go after some wary bluegill.  I tied on a sponge spider and immediately caught several bluegill.  I decided to change flies and selected a Madame X to see if I could entice more bluegill to jump on my line. Imagine my surprise when my rod almost came out of my hands.  Before I knew what was happening my rod was bent over and my pile of slack line was beginning to disappear!  I knew I had a larger fish and figured it was a bass.  The problem was I didn’t know how big and whether, or not, it would break my 1.5 pound tippet.  After 20 minutes, or so, of playing the fish I was shocked to discover a Channel Catfish (~3 lbs.) on the end of my line!!  I have never seen a catfish take a fly, but was even more astounded that it had taken a dry fly!! I guess it just goes to show that fly fishing is always an adventure. BTW, the bluegill action continued until dark once I got over the shock of catching the catfish. David R. Felter "The mind is like a parachute.  It doesn’t work if it’s not opened." ______  GREAT!  Thanks for sharing it.  The Madam X was invented by John Foust and I sat right next to him while WE tied it together. He would ask, "What do you think of this?"  And, I’d say, tie it all forward, bring it back to make the head and the wings will explode . . . and he did.  John thought of adding the rubber legs.  Then we later went to the B-52 for the big salmon fly hatch on the Bitterroot.  Yes, John is a marvelous fly tier but I did help him create it, which is of great pride to me.  But John Foust deserves 95% of doing it all by himself.  He sure turned into a pretty good fly fisherman.  I have stories of John that will tickle your funny bone.  His is a funny man and a very smart one also. George — Mr. G. ‘all’s fair with fur or feather’ http://216.55.26.157/vchat/ http://www.gink.com http://www.rodbuilding.com (Bamboo Is Fun) http://www.xink.com 509-243-4100 or 5500

Question:

We are planning a trip to Chincoteague, Va right after Labor Day. Is there any saltwater fly fishing opportunities in the Chincoteague area? ~thanx fred

Response:

Say hello to Misty for me. Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We are planning a trip to Chincoteague, Va right after Labor Day. Is there any saltwater fly fishing opportunities in the Chincoteague area? ~thanx fred

Response:

Fred, There is excellent fishing for flounder, croaker, striper and other species in the areas around Chincoteague.  Should be some bluefish action after Labor Day.  In fact, if you’re not going to fish, why the hell would ANYONE want to go to Chincoteague? Wayne to fish is human…to release divine. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We are planning a trip to Chincoteague, Va right after Labor Day. Is there any saltwater fly fishing opportunities in the Chincoteague area? ~thanx fred

Response:

Question:

I’m interested in submitting some pictures for magazines but not sure how to do it.  Anyone know anything about this? bruce

Response:

I’m interested in submitting some pictures for magazines but not sure how to do it.  Anyone know anything about this? bruce

Hi Bruce Most of the magazines I deal with request slides of the topic. One of the things I discovered caused me to start shooting my slide differently. Before working for magazine editors I always shot my slides for inclusion in slide shows and preferred them to be a little denser rather than the opposite. The editors I work with prefer a slide that a bit lighter than what I used to call normal. I now shoot my slides at a lower ASA rating than the film calls for (ASA 400 shot at 375). One way to sell your photo’s is to call the editor, let him know what you have, and arrange to send him/her samples. Good luck. If you want me to look your photo’s over, email me and we’ll see what we can arrange. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 materials catalog) http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

Response:

Your best bet is to shoot slow speed slide film.  KR64 is the the traditional favorite and you can’t go wrong with this. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m interested in submitting some pictures for magazines but not sure how to do it.  Anyone know anything about this? bruce

Response:

Bruce The first thing you do is write the magazine you’re interested in–typically the managing editor–and ask for a copy of their editorial guidelines. Some buy most of their pictures from outside sources, many only use pictures shot by the folks writing the story. Just depends. Most will prefer you write a letter describing what you want to sell rather than getting a box of slides–no one wants to be responsible for your slides unless they ask for them. yeah most won’t buy prints but  some will. Once you see rates you may give up on this by the way. Only a relative handful of folks pay enough for pictures to justify owning a camera. Good luck — www.geocities.com/~tarponguide

Response:

: Most of the magazines I deal with request slides of the topic. One of the : things I discovered caused me to start shooting my slide differently. : Before working for magazine editors I always shot my slides for inclusion : in slide shows and preferred them to be a little denser rather than the : opposite. The editors I work with prefer a slide that a bit lighter than : what I used to call normal. I now shoot my slides at a lower ASA rating : than the film calls for (ASA 400 shot at 375). I’m sure my experience with magazine photos is much more limited than Al’s but I agree with the advice about lighter photos… at least I think that is what Al was saying by making the photos less dense.  Dark negs or slides I’ve submitted print up even darker in a magazine.  But I might have Al’s comments wrong, because I underexpose my film to make a lighter slide, which translates into moving the ASA setting on the camera a notch higher (e.g. 425 rather than 400) rather than Al’s suggestion to go lower. Did I miss something Al? — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Leitheiser) writes: Normally "best" results are obtained with reversal films by overexposing a 1/2 stop or so, ie. shoot a 400 film at EI 350 or so. This keeps the shadows from being too dark…course it depends a bit <<snip   : Most of the magazines I deal with request slides of the topic. One of the : things I discovered caused me to start shooting my slide differently. : Before working for magazine editors I always shot my slides for inclusion : in slide shows and preferred them to be a little denser rather than the : opposite. The editors I work with prefer a slide that a bit lighter than : what I used to call normal. I now shoot my slides at a lower ASA rating : than the film calls for (ASA 400 shot at 375). I’m sure my experience with magazine photos is much more limited than Al’s but I agree with the advice about lighter photos… at least I think that is what Al was saying by making the photos less dense.  Dark negs or slides I’ve submitted print up even darker in a magazine.  But I might have Al’s comments wrong, because I underexpose my film to make a lighter slide, which translates into moving the ASA setting on the camera a notch higher (e.g. 425 rather than 400) rather than Al’s suggestion to go lower. Did I miss something Al? — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –  

Dense NEAGATIVES "print" lighter…Dense SLIDES "print" darker. I think you guys are meaning to say the same thing but are mixing positives and David Jones

Response:

1) There is a simple way of keeping "exposures" straight when dealing with any camera: bracket your shot: that is shoot three shots, one normal, one a half-stop over exposed and one a half stop underexposed. 2) If you cannot bracket here are some basic guidelines:    For color slides, "open up a stop, especially in clear sunny weather where the shadows will loose their detail quite quickly because they are 2 to three stops darker than sunlight. This is particularly with Kodachrome film, which is processed differently than the E-6 films such as Fuji or Ektachromes. And despite what most people say, no E6 processed film can be as sharp as Kodachrome because of the way it’s processed. 3)  For prints, there is more latitude in overall exposure because some exposure problems can be corrected when printing. 4)  Like Al Beatty, always "open" up a stop for photographs intended for publications. Magazines – and slide shows for that matter – do not like black shadows! Good shooting! 3)

Response:

Bob makes some good suggestions, especially about using a fill-in flash for outdoor slide work with close-up subjects.  Although art departments can "improve" a sloppy slide, I believe editors generally like the slides to be good to begin with….  Helps you get past the gate keeper. Once upon a time, Kodachrome 64 (and to a lesser extent Kodakchrome 25) were standards for outdoor magazine work.  Most outdoor magazine photographers that I knew would set the ASA at one setting under when shooting kodakchrome so as to slightly underexpose the slide and get rich, deep colour tones for printing in magazines. Nowadays, many (if not virtually all) outdoor photographers shooting for magazine publication use one of the modern E-6 films, for example Velvia 50 or Provia 100.  Most shoot this modern E-6 film dead on.  [It has taken me a while to adjust from Kodachrome--expensive in film .] A friend of mine who is a professional outdoor and nature photographer in PEI, will occasionally shoot the Velvia 50 *slightly* over-exposed in order to reduce the contrast (i.e., the surrealistic drenching colours).  I hear that Velvia 50 shoots well "pushed" but have yet to experiment with it. Boy, it sure gives nice results if you get the exposure right! Anyhow, this might all be of historic curiosity value if what I hear is true, in another few years, computer technology will have made slide and other film obsolete! One last thing:  whether for magazine publication, books or slides shows that you put on at your local club, I would encourage everybody to take as nice slides as possible of this your _favourite_ sport.  A good picture is worth a 1000 words and I believe that tasteful, good quality pictures of our favourite outdoor recreation help politically promote this sport and mobilize the political and economic resources to preserve (and if necessary restore) habitat–vital to good sport fisheries. Off my box!

: Been following this thread and thoght I’d throw my two pennies in. I : publish a magazine so I’ve had a smidgeon of experience re reproducing : photos, both slide and prints. : All slides, for that matter even all prints, will be scanned by a computer : operator into Photoshop, where they can be lightened, darkened, made more : contrasty, do color corrections, whatever the art department determines is : necessary preparatory to going to press. My opinion: shoot it normal, just : like you were gonna use it for  slide show. Or if you can afford a lot of : shots, then bracket the shot both sides of normal exposure. : I really like to keep things simple, and shooting normally is the : simplest. Let the art department make any corrections they want or need : and don’t try to do it with altering ASA numbers. If you find that the : photos are coming out dark in the printed magazine, it is because the art : department has not adjusted the contrast or brightness correctly. It’s : generally not the photographers fault. In fact, a good art department can : improve the looks of a bad photo to make it look good, probably as much as : 50% better. : Also, just a suggestion, when shooting outdoors, I use a fill flash on : almost every shot. It makes a world of difference and really gives a three : dimensional feel to the shot. Try it and you’ll see. : Bob Vorel — Burnaby, BC

Response:

: Most of the magazines I deal with request slides of the topic. One of the : opposite. The editors I work with prefer a slide that a bit lighter than : what I used to call normal. I now shoot my slides at a lower ASA rating have Al’s comments wrong, because I underexpose my film to make a lighter slide, which translates into moving the ASA setting on the camera a notch higher (e.g. 425 rather than 400) rather than Al’s suggestion to go lower.

This corresponds, I think, to what I have seen reccomended, i.e., use of a high contrast film.  Underexposure should produce a higher contrast image. -Burton

Response:

I’m sure my experience with magazine photos is much more limited than Al’s but I agree with the advice about lighter photos… at least I think that is what Al was saying by making the photos less dense.  Dark negs or slides I’ve submitted print up even darker in a magazine.  But I might have Al’s comments wrong, because I underexpose my film to make a lighter slide, which translates into moving the ASA setting on the camera a notch higher (e.g. 425 rather than 400) rather than Al’s suggestion to go lower. Did I miss something Al? — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/

I believe Al is correct, Rick.  By setting the ASA lower the camera thinks you are using slower film and will open the lens up more, or tell you to open the lens up,to compensate. This will give you a less dense,lighter slide.  TRy it.  I think you’ll like it. Paul

Response:

Been following this thread and thoght I’d throw my two pennies in. I publish a magazine so I’ve had a smidgeon of experience re reproducing photos, both slide and prints. All slides, for that matter even all prints, will be scanned by a computer operator into Photoshop, where they can be lightened, darkened, made more contrasty, do color corrections, whatever the art department determines is necessary preparatory to going to press. My opinion: shoot it normal, just like you were gonna use it for  slide show. Or if you can afford a lot of shots, then bracket the shot both sides of normal exposure. I really like to keep things simple, and shooting normally is the simplest. Let the art department make any corrections they want or need and don’t try to do it with altering ASA numbers. If you find that the photos are coming out dark in the printed magazine, it is because the art department has not adjusted the contrast or brightness correctly. It’s generally not the photographers fault. In fact, a good art department can improve the looks of a bad photo to make it look good, probably as much as 50% better. Also, just a suggestion, when shooting outdoors, I use a fill flash on almost every shot. It makes a world of difference and really gives a three dimensional feel to the shot. Try it and you’ll see. Bob Vorel

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : Most of the magazines I deal with request slides of the topic. One of the : things I discovered caused me to start shooting my slide differently. : Before working for magazine editors I always shot my slides for inclusion : in slide shows and preferred them to be a little denser rather than the : opposite. The editors I work with prefer a slide that a bit lighter than : what I used to call normal. I now shoot my slides at a lower ASA rating : than the film calls for (ASA 400 shot at 375). I’m sure my experience with magazine photos is much more limited than Al’s but I agree with the advice about lighter photos… at least I think that is what Al was saying by making the photos less dense.  Dark negs or slides I’ve submitted print up even darker in a magazine.  But I might have Al’s comments wrong, because I underexpose my film to make a lighter slide, which translates into moving the ASA setting on the camera a notch higher (e.g. 425 rather than 400) rather than Al’s suggestion to go lower. Did I miss something Al? — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

Actually,  to make a slide lighter (thinner, less dense) you expose it more; that is, you set a lower ASA.  That way the camera gives it more exposure.  The same for negatives.  As you give them more exposure the negative itseld gets denser, which when printed results in a lighter print.  All within limits, of course.  Bill Mack

Response:

Normally "best" results are obtained with reversal films by overexposing a 1/2 stop or so, ie. shoot a 400 film at EI 350 or so. This keeps the shadows from being too dark…course it depends a bit on your metering technique.  So many publications are scanning direct from the negative or slide now that it shouldn’t make any difference because of all the digital manipulation (now there is a catchy phrase) that they can do with the original.  Is that what reading how to/where to go complete with illustrations is?  FFing digital manipulation?   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : Most of the magazines I deal with request slides of the topic. One of the : things I discovered caused me to start shooting my slide differently. : Before working for magazine editors I always shot my slides for inclusion : in slide shows and preferred them to be a little denser rather than the : opposite. The editors I work with prefer a slide that a bit lighter than : what I used to call normal. I now shoot my slides at a lower ASA rating : than the film calls for (ASA 400 shot at 375). I’m sure my experience with magazine photos is much more limited than Al’s but I agree with the advice about lighter photos… at least I think that is what Al was saying by making the photos less dense.  Dark negs or slides I’ve submitted print up even darker in a magazine.  But I might have Al’s comments wrong, because I underexpose my film to make a lighter slide, which translates into moving the ASA setting on the camera a notch higher (e.g. 425 rather than 400) rather than Al’s suggestion to go lower. Did I miss something Al? — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

Mike in PDX "When the trout are lost, smash the state."                           Tom McGuane

Response:

Question:

Help!. I am going to Portland for 4 days and am wondering if there is any reasonable fly fishing within an hour of town. We won’t be able to go much farther than that. Also, does anyone know what a short-term fishing license (1 to 4 days) costs? I appreciate any help that is offered. I’d like to try some new spots since this opportunity has arisen. Cheers. Jon

Response:

A daily fishing license here in Oregon is $6.75.  There is a note that a salmon,steelhead,sturgeon, or halibut tag is not required for a day license.  The license is available at any Fred Myers stores in the Portland area.  This is the biggest chain of stores in the area that carry licenses although there are others I..e. G.I Joes sporting goods.  If your going to be in the area before the end of October I would recommend the Deschutes River.  Its about a two hour drive east of the Portland area.  I know this is a little farther than you mentioned but I think it is well worth the drive.  From everything I’ve read recently it is one of the best years for steelhead on the river.  I generally fish for trout near Mecca Flats on the Deschutes, if your interested let me know and I’ll email exact directions to you. Another good river for trout is the Clackamas.  It is basically south east of the Portland area and I know alot of people hit it near Estacada.  I’ve only been there once myself and did not have much luck, however had a friend fish it about 2-3 days ago with dries and sounds like he fairly good, lots of bites, smaller trout.  The Deschutes closes for trout oct 31 and steelhead on Dec 31.  If after Oct 31 I would also recommend the north fork of the Nehalem river. Its a coastal river about 1 and half hours west of Portland.  I heard that last year they had a great steelhead run start beginning of Nov. I didn’t get to hit it till January  and it was still full of 12 pounders.  Hopefully this has been some help, fairly new myself to flyfishing.  One last suggestion is to stop at Kaufmann’s Streamborn in Troutdale, sw of Portland, address in local phone book.  If you go there and buy some flies you might get some better info about local fishing than I can provide.  Good Luck. Cory

Response:

SNIP Estacada.  I’ve only been there once myself and did not have much luck, however had a friend fish it about 2-3 days ago with dries and sounds like he fairly good, lots of bites, smaller trout.  The Deschutes closes for trout oct 31 and steelhead on Dec 31.  

SNIP I believe that the Deschutes is open from the locked gate to the mouth for trout year around.  This includes the very popular area above and below Maupin. Jim

Response:

Question:

I saw a piece of Montana land for sale the other day–40 acres with (big) beautiful spring creek, panoramic mountain views, deer, geese, beavers, sand hill cranes, osprey, brown trout, wild flowers, skunks, eagles, elk etc, and it got me wondering (I’m not selling, just asking)….how much do people who don’t live in Montana think such a piece of land should sell for?   Yes, it’s true: my question is only marginally realted fly fishing, but I am curious about the answer.

Response:

$ 250,000 …. Can I borrow some money ?

Response:

That depends on whether you are going to let the public fish it !

Response:

: I saw a piece of Montana land for sale the other day–40 acres with : (big) beautiful spring creek, panoramic mountain views, deer, geese, : beavers, sand hill cranes, osprey, brown trout, wild flowers, skunks, : eagles, elk etc, and it got me wondering (I’m not selling, just : asking)….how much do people who don’t live in Montana think : such a piece of land should sell for? That depends totally on the location, Sandy.  I’m sure you know that, so I’m not certain what your point is.  But hey, I’ll bite. Around here (Moscow, N. Idaho), you might get a piece like that for $60K. Down on the Clearwater, it would run a little more than twice that. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey does anybody have any experience good/bad with these waders?  They look interesting but are they worth it?  And yes, Gore-Tex does work underwater. Hi Jorge- I trust you mean Simm’s Gore-Tex Micro Fiber. I have several pair including a protoype three seasons old. I’m in them just about every day and wear ‘em hard. I walk railroad tracks in 90 degree sun and wade waist deep with ice in the guides. They have yet to let me down.   In short, the micro fibers are great. Maybe better than great. I love them and have not put on neoprenes since. Because they expell moisture (where neoprene doesn’t) the *percieved* temperature is warmer in Gore-Tex than in neoprenes where the air is damp. Your best insulation is from layering fleece, Capilene, etc under a wader rather than depending on 3 or 4mm of neoprene anyway.   Gravel will grind in your shoes and the Micro-Fiber WILL leak in the feet unless you wear neoprene outer socks (provided with the waders). The water that migrates between the socks and the Gore-Tex allows even the feet to breath. Magic.       BEWARE! New models will soon be available with built in neoprene feet. These are convenient to wear (no messing with the neoprene outer sock) but despite what Simms, Orvis or anyone else say, the moisture laden air does NOT migrate up into your legs to be "breathed away". You WILL have wet feet. I have Micro-Fibers both with and without the built in neoprene feet. I’ll spend a minute putting on the extra sock any day to have dry feet!   I’m on the Simms technical advisory panel and work very closely with the company. To hopefully let you know my assesments are honest, let  me say:  Stay away from the Simms Cordura waders. They have a history of leakage problems. Also, I will tell you that Simms has had a very hard time meeting consumer demand and you might have a tough time finding your waders. Also, if you get a leak in your $300.00+ waders, it will take *at least* a month (based on history- their new plant opens next week and maybe this will speed things up) to get them repaired by Simms. You can not fix them at home. There. Now go out and buy a pair with my urging and enjoy! They *ARE* worth it.   Tight lines! Ralph —

  Ralph   Not to be contrary ,but I,ve have buddies that say after a few hours on the river they are soaked from within. Could this be condensation that does not "osmose" through the fabric fast enough ?   Harry  { I looking as well )

Response:

 Ralph  Not to be contrary ,but I,ve have buddies that say after a few hours on the river they are soaked from within. Could this be condensation that does not "osmose" through the fabric fast enough ?

Hi Harry! Contrary? I think not, You asked a good question.    The greater the temperature "differential" (inside the wader vs outside the wader) the better Gore-Tex works. Walking around on a hot day will not only work up a sweat but will not provide much of a "differential" and the Gore-Tex won’t work.  If you’ve worked up a sweat then wade into cold water you’ll be dry in a few minutes. Gore-Tex down jackets and sleeping bags fail miserably because the down is such an efficient insulator the temp differential is minimal.    My guess is that your friends are fishing in very warm water or they have pin hole leaks (a big problem with the Simms *Cordura* Gore-Tex waders. If they are Cordura, have your friends throw them through the wash. The open weave of the Cordura traps very small stickers that poke nearly invisible holes into the Gore-Tex membrane. Very often the wash will soften and dislodge the stickers and the holes will reseal themselves).     Check to see they are using Gore-Tex. Some of the other "waterproof/breathable" materials aren’t as breathable as Gore-Tex and at least one is very prone to clogging with body oils. (All waterproof/breathble fabrics work best when kept relatively clean. Be sure to run them through the drier after they’ve been cleaned, this rejuvenates the water repellent coating applied to the outer fabric.)    Tight lines, Ralph —

Response:

Just a question on the topic of Gortex Waders….. Do they provide any bouyancy, ala neoprene?  My buddy fell into the McKenzie last Saturday and was washed downstream about 150 ft. in about three minutes.  He survived because he was in neoprene and he remembered that they would provide bouyancy.  He lost his rod, but he lived to tell the story. Charley

Response:

Just a question on the topic of Gortex Waders….. Do they provide any bouyancy, ala neoprene?  My buddy fell into the McKenzie last Saturday and was washed downstream about 150 ft.

When Gortex snow suits came out I quickly concluded they were for rich folks who don’t ski a lot.  Those who ski a lot tear up ski clothing, and can’t afford to purchase new gortex every season. By analogy, in my humble opinion, gortex waders are for rich folks who don’t really fish a lot.  My neopremes are so patched up they look like they have leprosy.  I can’t afford new gortex every season. — -Wayne Trzyna

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just a question on the topic of Gortex Waders….. Do they provide any bouyancy, ala neoprene?  My buddy fell into the McKenzie last Saturday and was washed downstream about 150 ft. When Gortex snow suits came out I quickly concluded they were for rich folks who don’t ski a lot.  Those who ski a lot tear up ski clothing, and can’t afford to purchase new gortex every season. By analogy, in my humble opinion, gortex waders are for rich folks who don’t really fish a lot.  My neopremes are so patched up they look like they have leprosy.  I can’t afford new gortex every season. — -Wayne Trzyna

Wayne  I tied 20 doz. flies for my last pair. Scotts, they lasted 4 years, even in the acid water of the Lower Sac.   Harry

Response:

Wayne, :gortex waders are for rich folks who don’t really fish a lot.  My :neopremes are so patched up they look like they have leprosy.  I can’t :afford new gortex every season. I disagree.  I think that Gortex waders are for those of use who fish so much when it is hot that we would shorten our lifespans without them.  I would typically sweat at least two quarts up in South Park in my neoprenes.  I still sweat in my Goretex, but not nearly as much, because my bodies system actually works with the Goretex.  It’s also great to be able to take off your waders and not feel like you’ve had a bath.  I think that the only alternative to Goretex is to wade wet (which I love to do) but this doesn’t offer as much temperature variability as the Goretex. And that water in S. Park can be quiet cold.  Besides, they make patch kits for Goretex too..

Response:

Harry, I am skeptical of anyone who is associated with a product. I don’t call that contrary,  just smart.  Their credibility is an inverse ratio to their financial involvement.

   The question is: Is there anyone out there who has used the Simms GoreTex waders for a year or so that would go back to using anything else?    I’m only an occasional fisherman, but I’ve had my older type Simms for three years and wouldn’t consider going back to neoprene or ‘lightweights’.  Given the other costs of this sport, I think these waders are pretty good value of the money. — Lloyd Fortney —Opinions are mine—

Response:

  I’m only an occasional fisherman, but I’ve had my older type Simms for three years and wouldn’t consider going back to neoprene or ‘lightweights’.  Given the other costs of this sport, I think these waders are pretty good value of the money. — Lloyd Fortney —Opinions are mine—

Actually, I am convinced there is a place for both.  I absolutely love gore tex for 75% of my fishing.  However, yesterday I was fishing in some pretty cold water and wished i had had on neoprene about the time my feet turned blue. Mike Ray

Response:

Hey does anybody have any experience good/bad with these waders?  They look interesting but are they worth it?  And yes, Gore-Tex does work underwater.

Response:

Hey does anybody have any experience good/bad with these waders?  They look interesting but are they worth it?  And yes, Gore-Tex does work underwater.

Hi Jorge- I trust you mean Simm’s Gore-Tex Micro Fiber. I have several pair including a protoype three seasons old. I’m in them just about every day and wear ‘em hard. I walk railroad tracks in 90 degree sun and wade waist deep with ice in the guides. They have yet to let me down.    In short, the micro fibers are great. Maybe better than great. I love them and have not put on neoprenes since. Because they expell moisture (where neoprene doesn’t) the *percieved* temperature is warmer in Gore-Tex than in neoprenes where the air is damp. Your best insulation is from layering fleece, Capilene, etc under a wader rather than depending on 3 or 4mm of neoprene anyway.    Gravel will grind in your shoes and the Micro-Fiber WILL leak in the feet unless you wear neoprene outer socks (provided with the waders). The water that migrates between the socks and the Gore-Tex allows even the feet to breath. Magic.        BEWARE! New models will soon be available with built in neoprene feet. These are convenient to wear (no messing with the neoprene outer sock) but despite what Simms, Orvis or anyone else say, the moisture laden air does NOT migrate up into your legs to be "breathed away". You WILL have wet feet. I have Micro-Fibers both with and without the built in neoprene feet. I’ll spend a minute putting on the extra sock any day to have dry feet!    I’m on the Simms technical advisory panel and work very closely with the company. To hopefully let you know my assesments are honest, let  me say:  Stay away from the Simms Cordura waders. They have a history of leakage problems. Also, I will tell you that Simms has had a very hard time meeting consumer demand and you might have a tough time finding your waders. Also, if you get a leak in your $300.00+ waders, it will take *at least* a month (based on history- their new plant opens next week and maybe this will speed things up) to get them repaired by Simms. You can not fix them at home. There. Now go out and buy a pair with my urging and enjoy! They *ARE* worth it.    Tight lines! Ralph —

Response: