Question:

7 DAYS BEIJING SUZHOU ZHOUZHUANG HANGZHOU SHANGHAI TOUR Beijing — As well as the nation capital, Beijing is the political, economic and cultural centre of China. The city dates back to the 13th century, when Mogul emperor KublaiKhan established it as the capital of his kingdom there and now as a fast-changing city under a leadership determined to keep pace with a rapidly changing world. Suzhou — Suzhou is a 2,500-year old city famous for its numerous private gardens in the classic style, some dating 400 years or so to the Ming Dynasty(1368—1644). Also a center of silk production, the city makes a dazzling variety of silk products for home and overseas consumption. Along with Shanghai to the east, Wuxi to the west and Hangzhou to the south, Suzhou makes one of the fastest-growing areas in China’s economy and education. Zhouzhuang — Like a lotus on the water, the town is surrounded and bisected by rivers. Sitting on the boat, one may enjoying the scene between bridges and feel the interest of a water township which offers a quiet and simple life. Hangzhou — Famous for its scenic beauty, Hangzhou is regarded as "Paradise On Earth". Historically as one of seven famous ancient capital cities in China, Hangzhou is a major destination of tourism and ancient civilization. Shanghai– A fishing-village-turned metropolis, Shanghai offers one of the best examples where the east meets the west, the Chinese meets the foreign, and the traditional meets the modern. The city equals many of the world’s metropolises in terms of the pace of life and the speed of change. A Los Angeles Times report in Sept.2001 says that, attracted by Shanghai’s glitz, more than 300,000 Taiwanese, mostly businesspeople, have settled down in the city in recent years. Day 1. ARRIVE BEIJING (D.) Arrive at Beijing International Airport, greeted by the SPRINGTOUR guide upon arrival. Stay at Beijing King Wing Hot Spring Hotel or one in the same class. Day 2. BEIJING (B. L. D.) Visit the Forbidden-City, the largest imperial palace in the world, visit the spectacular Tian An Men Square for sightseeing, then visit the gorgeous Temple of Heaven where the former emperors used to pray for good harvest. Stay at Beijing King Wing Hot Spring Hotel or one in the same class. Day 3. BEIJING (B. L. D.) Visit the Great Wall and Changling Mausoleum, one of the emperors’ tombs of Ming dynasty, followed by the Summer Palace-the largest royal summer resort in China. Stay at Beijing King Wing Hot Spring Hotel or one in the same class. Day 4. BEIJING to SHANGHAI to SUZHOU (B. L. D.) Fly to Shanghai, then transfer to Suzhou by bus or train. Stay at Suzhou China Garden Hotel or one in the same class. Day 5. SUZHOU to HANGZHOU (B. L. D.) Visit the Tiger Hill, on which stands a slanting tower; continue the visit to the Chilly Hill Temple, Lingering Garden and the First Silk Factory, and then travel to Hangzhou.(via Zhouzhuang). Stay at Holiday Inn Hangzhou or one in the same class. Day 6. HANGZHOU to SHANGHAI (B. L. D.) Cruise on the West Lake and take a look at the Peak Flown from Afar, the Tiger Spring, then walk along the Su Dongpo Causeway across the West Lake, have a nice cup of Longjing Tea at Longjing Tea Village, then travel to Shanghai. Stay at Shanghai Hotel or one in the same class. Day 7. SHANGHAI (B. L.) Visit the well-known Yuyuan Garden, the Bund-a show case of world architecture, followed by the Pudong New Area, and then have a stroll around the People’s Square. The pleasant tour ends. TOUR FEATURES INCLUDE 1.Transportation: Domestic flight of Beijing/Shanghai and air-conditioned buses for ground travel. 2.Accommodation: Standard double rooms in 4-star Hotel.(5-star hotel in Beijing) 3.Entrance Fee: All first entrance fees in the itinerary. 4.Meals: Indicated in the itinerary. 5.Tour Guide: Chinese/English speaking tour guides. 6.Insurance: Travel Service Responsibility Insurance. 7.Includes the air fare Beijing/Shanghai 8.Airport constructure fee is not included TOUR COST (Per Person) $480   Single Supplement $200 DEPARTURES Sorry! There are no available tour packages for you now. Please inform us of your demands! We’ll do our best to arrange the tour package only for you. TEL: 86-21-62511406 FAX: 86-21-62523734 Email: [Remark]: 1. Please make reservation for Spring Tour one week at least prior to the departure! 2. Tour cost for Child (below 12): 90% and 75% of the normal cost separately for occupying bed and no bed. 3. Tour cost fluctuates according to the season

Response:

7 DAYS BEIJING SUZHOU ZHOUZHUANG HANGZHOU SHANGHAI TOUR Beijing — As well as the nation capital, Beijing is the political, economic and cultural centre of China. The city dates back to the 13th century, when Mogul emperor KublaiKhan established it as the capital of his kingdom there and now as a fast-changing city under a leadership determined to keep pace with a rapidly changing world. Suzhou — Suzhou is a 2,500-year old city famous for its numerous private gardens in the classic style, some dating 400 years or so to the Ming Dynasty(1368—1644). Also a center of silk production, the city makes a dazzling variety of silk products for home and overseas consumption. Along with Shanghai to the east, Wuxi to the west and Hangzhou to the south, Suzhou makes one of the fastest-growing areas in China’s economy and education. Zhouzhuang — Like a lotus on the water, the town is surrounded and bisected by rivers. Sitting on the boat, one may enjoying the scene between bridges and feel the interest of a water township which offers a quiet and simple life. Hangzhou — Famous for its scenic beauty, Hangzhou is regarded as "Paradise On Earth". Historically as one of seven famous ancient capital cities in China, Hangzhou is a major destination of tourism and ancient civilization. Shanghai– A fishing-village-turned metropolis, Shanghai offers one of the best examples where the east meets the west, the Chinese meets the foreign, and the traditional meets the modern. The city equals many of the world’s metropolises in terms of the pace of life and the speed of change. A Los Angeles Times report in Sept.2001 says that, attracted by Shanghai’s glitz, more than 300,000 Taiwanese, mostly businesspeople, have settled down in the city in recent years. Day 1. ARRIVE BEIJING (D.) Arrive at Beijing International Airport, greeted by the SPRINGTOUR guide upon arrival. Stay at Beijing King Wing Hot Spring Hotel or one in the same class. Day 2. BEIJING (B. L. D.) Visit the Forbidden-City, the largest imperial palace in the world, visit the spectacular Tian An Men Square for sightseeing, then visit the gorgeous Temple of Heaven where the former emperors used to pray for good harvest. Stay at Beijing King Wing Hot Spring Hotel or one in the same class. Day 3. BEIJING (B. L. D.) Visit the Great Wall and Changling Mausoleum, one of the emperors’ tombs of Ming dynasty, followed by the Summer Palace-the largest royal summer resort in China. Stay at Beijing King Wing Hot Spring Hotel or one in the same class. Day 4. BEIJING to SHANGHAI to SUZHOU (B. L. D.) Fly to Shanghai, then transfer to Suzhou by bus or train. Stay at Suzhou China Garden Hotel or one in the same class. Day 5. SUZHOU to HANGZHOU (B. L. D.) Visit the Tiger Hill, on which stands a slanting tower; continue the visit to the Chilly Hill Temple, Lingering Garden and the First Silk Factory, and then travel to Hangzhou.(via Zhouzhuang). Stay at Holiday Inn Hangzhou or one in the same class. Day 6. HANGZHOU to SHANGHAI (B. L. D.) Cruise on the West Lake and take a look at the Peak Flown from Afar, the Tiger Spring, then walk along the Su Dongpo Causeway across the West Lake, have a nice cup of Longjing Tea at Longjing Tea Village, then travel to Shanghai. Stay at Shanghai Hotel or one in the same class. Day 7. SHANGHAI (B. L.) Visit the well-known Yuyuan Garden, the Bund-a show case of world architecture, followed by the Pudong New Area, and then have a stroll around the People’s Square. The pleasant tour ends. [Remark]: 1. Please make reservation for Spring Tour one week at least prior to the departure! 2. Tour cost for Child (below 12): 90% and 75% of the normal cost separately for occupying bed and no bed. 3. Tour cost fluctuates according to the season.

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Question:

rw wrote… How do you jump from spring creek fishing to Silver Creek?   ??? Could someone please explain to me what that means? Silver Creek IS a spring creek. It’s the finest spring creek I’ve ever seen.

The goggbly gook of the gizmo’s flux capacitor was fubared because of the do-hickey thingy malfunction due to an error of the whateveryacallit.   Thus Silver Creek has nothing to do with it? — Warren Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt

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Montana, for sake of good order, is the number one fly fishing state in the Untied States and it services more fly fishermen than any other because it has classic waters most of which are in the Jellybean Park area that lure them all, like "The Fire Hole!" etc. All States have pay as you go fly fishing Jeffrey.  Take it from here. It costs money to fly fish America, no matter where you go.  Outdoor Recreation is for two kinds of outdoorsmen.  Those who pay their way and poachers.  There is no middle ground. George Gehrke The Leaf Will Fall – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Like it or not, Outdoor Recreation IS a rich man’s sport.  It’s been this way a very long time Jeff. The POINT is – you said Two States that have more "Classic Trout Waters" above all others are first, Montana and second, Colorado.  Idaho trout waters are much too commercialized … By that you meant Spring Creek fishing by appointment and bucks only, for starters – Well, what about "rod fees" in Montana?  DePuy’s Spring Creek, O’Hair’s/Armstrong’s Spring Creek:, Nelson’s Spring Creek, McCoy Ranch Spring Creeks, O’Dell in Ennis that I mentioned?  Most of these places are books months in advance for the busy season.  Sorry, if that’s your criteria for "classic", then Montana doesn’t make the list either.

Response:

How do you jump from spring creek fishing to Silver Creek?  

??? Could someone please explain to me what that means? Silver Creek IS a spring creek. It’s the finest spring creek I’ve ever seen. Secondly, where does "Honor" have to do with joining anything?  

It’s like when an organization like the Nature Conservancy saves and restores a fantastic spring creek and then people begrudge them a modest donation for fishing it. Thirdly, the Nature Conservatory costs money and only working people can afford to pay for outdoor recreation which was one of my points and lastly, I didn’t screw up at all R.W.

It costs $25 a year to join. If you aren’t a member they request a $5/day donation to fish Silver Creek, but that’s VOLUNTARY. And you can just fish the excellent non-Conservancy water if it bothers you. No "appointments" are necessary in either case. Big time screw up. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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George Gehrke wrote… Wayne?  You seem to forget who was the first to suggest a "Conclave" for Roff.  In fact, someone in North Carolina even asked at the time, "What is a Conclave?" Naturally, I explained and the first Roff Conclave started.

Sorry George, but I am not buying this.  Perhaps you can provide the proof for you claim, but I searched google and came up with this: http://makeashorterlink.com/?X48B1164 Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly, rec.outdoors.fishing, alt.fishing http://makeashorterlink.com/?G4AB6264 The first mention I have found so far of a ROFF conclave. Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly http://makeashorterlink.com/?L2BB2164 Mr Vinsel’s first suggestion of a "conclave" Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly http://makeashorterlink.com/?M29B1364 The first  mention of "conclave" searched under the author "Mr G" regarding something other than a FFF conclave. Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly — Warren Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt

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You don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about, George.

Good post, many agree. <g — Charlie…

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How do you jump from spring creek fishing to Silver Creek?  Secondly, where does "Honor" have to do with joining anything?  Thirdly, the Nature Conservatory costs money and only working people can afford to pay for outdoor recreation which was one of my points and lastly, I didn’t screw up at all R.W. George – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Spring Creek fishing by appointment and bucks only, for starters – You don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about, George. Silver Creek is free of charge, and there’s no rod limit. All you need is a valid Idaho fishing license. If you fish in the Nature Conservancy you’re asked for a donation, but it’s voluntary. The honorable thing to do is to join the Nature Conservancy, which costs very little. There’s a stretch with excellent public access that’s every bit as good as the Conservancy. I’ve fished several times on Silver Creek when I saw no other anglers. I even took my dogs. If you go on the weekend during the Brown Drake hatch you’ll have some company. I avoid that. Some of the water is private, but much of the best part is public. You can even float-tube through private water because, unlike in "user friendly" Utah, Idaho property owners don’t own the creek. What’s more, Silver Creek is hardly typical of Idaho flyfishing. Admit it, George. You really fucked up on this one. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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Like it or not, Outdoor Recreation IS a rich man’s sport.  It’s been this way a very long time Jeff.

The POINT is – you said Two States that have more "Classic Trout Waters" above all others are first, Montana and second, Colorado.  Idaho trout waters are much too commercialized …

By that you meant Spring Creek fishing by appointment and bucks only, for starters –

Well, what about "rod fees" in Montana?  DePuy’s Spring Creek, O’Hair’s/Armstrong’s Spring Creek:, Nelson’s Spring Creek, McCoy Ranch Spring Creeks, O’Dell in Ennis that I mentioned?  Most of these places are books months in advance for the busy season.  Sorry, if that’s your criteria for "classic", then Montana doesn’t make the list either.

Response:

Since you seemed interested enough to answer, I assume you’d attend if there was one? Willi

        my heart is set on the henry’s fork.  i’ve been to colorado, but never to idaho.  the pictures are better up there. your friend in the old north state wayno

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Usually, it takes two to three days to understand and learn individual drainage systems besides the traveling.

heh heh  The worst thing a Conclave can do is try and fish too many waters.  I think the Colorado Conclave should pick only one main river per week.

Oh fer cryin’ out loud

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        my heart is set on the henry’s fork.  i’ve been to colorado, but never to idaho.  the pictures are better up there.

Hope you make it. I’m looking forward to a return trip. Some gorgeous country (the country right around Henry’s Fork isn’t as dramatic as it is around Steve’s place but beautiful in its own way) and LOTS of great water. Willi

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I’m in – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Someone mentioned the idea of a Colorado Clave a while back.  Perhaps George?  Is that clave going to turn into a reality? Paul         you have got to be kidding. your friend in the old north state wayno Since you seemed interested enough to answer, I assume you’d attend if there was one? Willi

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Hope you make it. I’m looking forward to a return trip. Some gorgeous country (the country right around Henry’s Fork isn’t as dramatic as it is around Steve’s place but beautiful in its own way) and LOTS of great water.

Wayno can probably find some decent postcards in Island Park. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Wayne?  You seem to forget who was the first to suggest a "Conclave" for Roff.  In fact, someone in North Carolina even asked at the time, "What is a Conclave?" Naturally, I explained and the first Roff Conclave started. Is your memory as long as your next step dear friend? sigh*! George Gehrke Mr. Conclave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Someone mentioned the idea of a Colorado Clave a while back.  Perhaps George?  Is that clave going to turn into a reality? Paul         you have got to be kidding. your friend in the old north state wayno

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Spring Creek fishing by appointment and bucks only, for starters – You think the most famous examples of that aren’t in Montana?  Shit, even the creek across the street from where I stayed in Ennis charged $50 a day to fish there – if they weren’t already booked.

Not to mention that it’s completely false. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Spring Creek fishing by appointment and bucks only, for starters –

You don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about, George. Silver Creek is free of charge, and there’s no rod limit. All you need is a valid Idaho fishing license. If you fish in the Nature Conservancy you’re asked for a donation, but it’s voluntary. The honorable thing to do is to join the Nature Conservancy, which costs very little. There’s a stretch with excellent public access that’s every bit as good as the Conservancy. I’ve fished several times on Silver Creek when I saw no other anglers. I even took my dogs. If you go on the weekend during the Brown Drake hatch you’ll have some company. I avoid that. Some of the water is private, but much of the best part is public. You can even float-tube through private water because, unlike in "user friendly" Utah, Idaho property owners don’t own the creek. What’s more, Silver Creek is hardly typical of Idaho flyfishing. Admit it, George. You really fucked up on this one. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Spring Creek fishing by appointment and bucks only, for starters – – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Idaho trout waters are much too commercialized and not user friendly as is Utah’s. I really wonder how you’ve come up with that one. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Spring Creek fishing by appointment and bucks only, for starters –

You think the most famous examples of that aren’t in Montana?  Shit, even the creek across the street from where I stayed in Ennis charged $50 a day to fish there – if they weren’t already booked.

Response:

Like it or not, Outdoor Recreation IS a rich man’s sport.  It’s been this way a very long time Jeff.   George Gehrke "Who’s Boat Carries 90 GALLONS of fuel" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Spring Creek fishing by appointment and bucks only, for starters – You think the most famous examples of that aren’t in Montana?  Shit, even the creek across the street from where I stayed in Ennis charged $50 a day to fish there – if they weren’t already booked.

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Idaho trout waters are much too commercialized and not user friendly as is Utah’s.  

I really wonder how you’ve come up with that one. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Two States that have more "Classic Trout Waters" above all others are first, Montana and second, Colorado.  Wyoming waters are mostly wind blown, far and few in between but nice.  Idaho trout waters are much too commercialized and not user friendly as is Utah’s.  Oregon is a State of vast diversity as it Northern California up through the State of Washington.  Northern New Mexico is likewise rather restricted because of the large land grants but the San Juan is only a small window of what the main spur of the Rocky Mountain Chain has to offer away from main population areas.  But Colorado, and most anything on the WESTERN SIDE of the Continental Divide away from Denver is a mix that has variety beyond your wildest dreams if you’re willing to get away from the main roads.  Colorado is blessed with a perfect summer climate and her mountains bank enough snow to keep her trout streams balanced and cool though out the year.  A Conclave through Colorado down to the Delores River and the San Juan over a period of three to four weeks is a Conclave worth attending.   Usually, it takes two to three days to understand and learn individual drainage systems besides the traveling.  The worst thing a Conclave can do is try and fish too many waters.  I think the Colorado Conclave should pick only one main river per week. The other option is fish as you go.  Just travel along and stay by any river for as many days a caravan happens upon and everyone staying in a main commercial camp site with showers, etc. George Gehrke Winnebago Camping Bum – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Someone mentioned the idea of a Colorado Clave a while back.  Perhaps George?  Is that clave going to turn into a reality? Paul         you have got to be kidding. your friend in the old north state wayno Since you seemed interested enough to answer, I assume you’d attend if there was one? Willi

Response:

Someone mentioned the idea of a Colorado Clave a while back.  Perhaps George?  Is that clave going to turn into a reality? Paul Why don’t you make it a reality?

Good Point!  I just left Colorado after living in the state for 35 years and was thinking a clave would be a good reason to return this summer…   If people are interested, I might be willing to put something together. Paul

Response:

Someone mentioned the idea of a Colorado Clave a while back.  Perhaps George?  Is that clave going to turn into a reality? Paul         you have got to be kidding. your friend in the old north state wayno

Since you seemed interested enough to answer, I assume you’d attend if there was one? Willi

Response:

Someone mentioned the idea of a Colorado Clave a while back.  Perhaps George?  Is that clave going to turn into a reality? Paul

Why don’t you make it a reality? Willi

Response:

Someone mentioned the idea of a Colorado Clave a while back.  Perhaps George?  Is that clave going to turn into a reality? Paul

        you have got to be kidding. your friend in the old north state wayno

Response:

Someone mentioned the idea of a Colorado Clave a while back.  Perhaps George?  Is that clave going to turn into a reality? Paul

Response:

Question:

   I was wondering what fishermen actually prefer from kayakers and canoeists.  When paddling down stream, is it better for us to move to the opposite bank (furthest from you) or is it better to pass close to you so as not to spook fish?  Any suggestions or guidelines would be greatly appreciated.

It depends upon how big the river is. If it’s pretty big, try to go to the opposite side of the water. If it’s small, I’d hold upstream a little and actually ask the fisherman. No spot on the river will actually be a good one for you, but some might be better than others. I’m doing most of my fishing on an urban reservoir now. The jetskiers and water skiers are becoming something of a problem. It’s illegal to operate one fast enough to create a wake within 150′ of a shore fisherman, but a number of them don’t seem to care. Maybe I should tuck my coupon book into my tackle box when I’m fishing. "No, sir, I wasn’t goofing off. I was conducting a stakeout for unsafe boating practices!" And I’m soooo sure he’d buy that. You spam my account, I nuke your ass. Simple enough.

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I myself have been thinking of buying a canoe for fishing those waters where access is not very good and the waters too small for my jon boat. As far as having a canoe or kayak pass over the fish, and then waiting for them to recover, I’m sure the recovery period is a lot less than having a Bayliner with a couple of jerks on skis, or a couple of PWC (jet-skis) put your fish down. Some of the lakes I fish are so tore up from these inconsiderate morons, that the weeds are floating for several hours or days after a busy weekend. I could be fishing in a small bay and the idiots will have a whole lake to ski on, and for some reason they just have to find their way into that bay I’m fishing to scare the fish. No wonder I think of bringing the Ruger  with me when I fish. <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    < <    <    <    <    <    <

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As somebody who has been hit, almost hit and chased from the stream by a "fiberglass hatch" of jerks, I’d like to add my two cents worth.  While being hit is not tolerable, we  may as well get used to kayaks and  canoes.  Actually, I would like to get  one or the other to fish streams with  limited shore access.  I think that fish  in a water with lots of canoe&kayak  traffic have to recover quickly after one  passes over.  They’d starve otherwise.  Greg.

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And why clip off the fly?? Some of those inconsiderate jerks would look nice with a royal wolff for and earring… <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    < <    <    <    <    <    <

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Pack a .44 magnum in your vest pocket. Take your testosterone powered bass buggy somewhere else.  To pull out even a sling-shot could cost you more than you can imagine.  Clipping off the fly and "accidentally" false casting close to the ear, now that may deliver the message without making a victim of the offender. Wayne to fish is human….to release Divine!!!

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Couldn’t have said it better myownself.  <g PC – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Stay as far away as possible Hi,    I was wondering what fishermen actually prefer from kayakers and canoeists.  When paddling down stream, is it better for us to move to the opposite bank (furthest from you) or is it better to pass close to you so as not to spook fish?  Any suggestions or guidelines would be greatly appreciated. Just got back from the AuSable in Michigan (TR to follow.)  Here’s a bit more into on the aluminum/fiberglass hatch and spooking fish.  On Saturday, the temperature was in the high 80’s and the humidex was off the dial.  Every bubba and his bubbette was rafting, kayaking, and canoeing down the AuSable right in front of the Gates Lodge.  A body couldn’t squeeze a cast in between boats.  Just downstream from Gates is the pullout point for the rentals and it siphons off about 95% of the bubba traffic (of which I became one on Sunday, but more on that later.)  On Sunday, a front had blown through bringing rain, high winds and much colder temps.  This took care of the vast majority of the canoeists (except for yours truly and his bubbette.)  By the evening, I’m back on the water in my rightful position – standing in it not floating on it, and above the pullout point, I couldn’t buy a strike.  Below the pullout there were plenty of fish.  A full 24 hrs. after the bubba hatch, those upstream were still spooked.  I spoke to the store owner this morning and he confirmed that a good bubba hatch will drive the fish down for quite a while. Maybe the occasional boat won’t shake things up much but it looks like a steady bubba hatch will put fish off for quite a while – at least 24 hrs. or more if this experience is anything to go by. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

– Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

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Maybe they could ferry my Power Bait to a hole I can’t reach from the bank.

Now that the State no longer stocks catchables in streams and rivers, you don’t still use Powerbait, do you? From what I’ve seen, it’s not very effective for streambred fish. Willi

Response:

Hi,    I was wondering what fishermen actually prefer from kayakers and canoeists.  When paddling down stream, is it better for us to move to the opposite bank (furthest from you) or is it better to pass close to you so as not to spook fish?  Any suggestions or guidelines would be greatly appreciated.

Just got back from the AuSable in Michigan (TR to follow.)  Here’s a bit more into on the aluminum/fiberglass hatch and spooking fish.  On Saturday, the temperature was in the high 80’s and the humidex was off the dial.  Every bubba and his bubbette was rafting, kayaking, and canoeing down the AuSable right in front of the Gates Lodge.  A body couldn’t squeeze a cast in between boats.  Just downstream from Gates is the pullout point for the rentals and it siphons off about 95% of the bubba traffic (of which I became one on Sunday, but more on that later.)  On Sunday, a front had blown through bringing rain, high winds and much colder temps.  This took care of the vast majority of the canoeists (except for yours truly and his bubbette.)  By the evening, I’m back on the water in my rightful position – standing in it not floating on it, and above the pullout point, I couldn’t buy a strike.  Below the pullout there were plenty of fish.  A full 24 hrs. after the bubba hatch, those upstream were still spooked.  I spoke to the store owner this morning and he confirmed that a good bubba hatch will drive the fish down for quite a while. Maybe the occasional boat won’t shake things up much but it looks like a steady bubba hatch will put fish off for quite a while – at least 24 hrs. or more if this experience is anything to go by. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Stay as far away as possible – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi,    I was wondering what fishermen actually prefer from kayakers and canoeists.  When paddling down stream, is it better for us to move to the opposite bank (furthest from you) or is it better to pass close to you so as not to spook fish?  Any suggestions or guidelines would be greatly appreciated. Just got back from the AuSable in Michigan (TR to follow.)  Here’s a bit more into on the aluminum/fiberglass hatch and spooking fish.  On Saturday, the temperature was in the high 80’s and the humidex was off the dial.  Every bubba and his bubbette was rafting, kayaking, and canoeing down the AuSable right in front of the Gates Lodge.  A body couldn’t squeeze a cast in between boats.  Just downstream from Gates is the pullout point for the rentals and it siphons off about 95% of the bubba traffic (of which I became one on Sunday, but more on that later.)  On Sunday, a front had blown through bringing rain, high winds and much colder temps.  This took care of the vast majority of the canoeists (except for yours truly and his bubbette.)  By the evening, I’m back on the water in my rightful position – standing in it not floating on it, and above the pullout point, I couldn’t buy a strike.  Below the pullout there were plenty of fish.  A full 24 hrs. after the bubba hatch, those upstream were still spooked.  I spoke to the store owner this morning and he confirmed that a good bubba hatch will drive the fish down for quite a while. Maybe the occasional boat won’t shake things up much but it looks like a steady bubba hatch will put fish off for quite a while – at least 24 hrs. or more if this experience is anything to go by. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

I think if they’d just show their tits it would solve a lot or problems. — The Halfordian Golfer

Response:

 While being hit is not tolerable, we  may as well get used to kayaks and  canoes.  Actually, I would like to get  one or the other to fish streams with  limited shore access.  I think that fish  in a water with lots of canoe&kayak  traffic have to recover quickly after one  passes over.  They’d starve otherwise.

Maybe they could ferry my Power Bait to a hole I can’t reach from the bank. — TBone Walker The Halfordian Golfer

Response:

(copied from above) Afraid I can’t offer a real plan for dealing with these folks.  There doesn’t seem to be a reasonable, effective response. Wayne to fish is human….to release Divine!!!

Just showing you a reasonable, EFFECTIVE response. And if you can’t find the humor in what I posted… <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    < <    <    <    <    <    <

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Pack a .44 magnum in your vest pocket. Take your testosterone powered bass buggy somewhere else.  To pull out even a sling-shot could cost you more than you can imagine.  Clipping off the fly and "accidentally" false casting close to the ear, now that may deliver the message without making a victim of the offender. Wayne to fish is human….to release Divine!!!

Response:

Any suggestions or guidelines would be greatly appreciated. Best thing wood be to merely take a break as your canoein’ friends pass by!! It’s NOT really all that big of a deal when you think about it! trout — I come here for the education, I stay for the amusement. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi,    I was wondering what fishermen actually prefer from kayakers and canoeists.  When paddling down stream, is it better for us to move to the opposite bank (furthest from you) or is it better to pass close to you so as not to spook fish?  Any suggestions or guidelines would be greatly appreciated.

Response:

I’m with you on this one. Op

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any suggestions or guidelines would be greatly appreciated. Best thing wood be to merely take a break as your canoein’ friends pass by!! It’s NOT really all that big of a deal when you think about it! trout — I come here for the education, I stay for the amusement. Hi,    I was wondering what fishermen actually prefer from kayakers and canoeists.  When paddling down stream, is it better for us to move to the opposite bank (furthest from you) or is it better to pass close to you so as not to spook fish?  Any suggestions or guidelines would be greatly appreciated.

Response:

Pack a .44 magnum in your vest pocket.

Take your testosterone powered bass buggy somewhere else.  To pull out even a sling-shot could cost you more than you can imagine.  Clipping off the fly and "accidentally" false casting close to the ear, now that may deliver the message without making a victim of the offender. Wayne to fish is human….to release Divine!!!

Response:

These two rules I agree with 1,000,000,000,000 % ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    < <    <    <    <    <    <

                               (snip – snip) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Rule #4 – when you ruin my day as you float by,  don’t smile and say, "How’s the fishing?"  I’m likely to tell you. Rule #5 – if you’re planning a big event that’ll take over a river, publicize it at the local fishing shops – then I’ll know to stay home.

Response:

Pack a .44 magnum in your vest pocket. <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    < <    <    <    <    <    <

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I never seem to have a problem with kayakers who are fishing.  They seem to be the more knowledgable.  Canoeist tend to be worse and the very worst are the fairly new and occasional recreation kayakers. I’ve actually had these later types paddle over from across 200 feet of river and paddle around me while asking about the fishing.  They just seemed to want to get the most out of their "wilderness" experience.  No amount of verbal abuse shakes these types, they just get their nose out of joint because you made their day less pleasant. Tubers are totally self-absorbed and could care less about anything or anyone else on the water.  Nothing you can do or say, short of causing yourself a good deal of trouble, has any influence on this crowd. What really torques me about most of these people is that the waters I fish which also supports floaters, is plenty big for rafters, boaters, and tubers to pass well away from the few wading fishermen they pass. Afraid I can’t offer a real plan for dealing with these folks.  There doesn’t seem to be a reasonable, effective response. Wayne to fish is human….to release Divine!!!

Response:

I never seem to have a problem with kayakers who are fishing.  They seem to be the more knowledgable.  Canoeist tend to be worse and the very worst are the fairly new and occasional recreation kayakers. I’ve actually had these later types paddle over from across 200 feet of river and paddle around me while asking about the fishing.  They just seemed to want to get the most out of their "wilderness" experience.  No amount of verbal abuse shakes these types, they just get their nose out of joint because you made their day less pleasant. Tubers are totally self-absorbed and could care less about anything or anyone else on the water.  Nothing you can do or say, short of causing yourself a good deal of trouble, has any influence on this crowd. What really torques me about most of these people is that the waters I fish which also supports floaters, is plenty big for rafters, boaters, and tubers to pass well away from the few wading fishermen they pass. Afraid I can’t offer a real plan for dealing with these folks.  There doesn’t seem to be a reasonable, effective response. Wayne to fish is human….to release Divine!!!

Response:

I prefer to pass farther away (I paddle mostly where bait casters are), but if that line is going to put me in a bad current or into a power boat lane, I’ll just apologize and go by the fisherman.  As a fisherperson myself, I don’t worry too much about spooking the fish. I have observed them while fishing in very clear waters, while swimming, and while just siting around.  Unless there’s a real overabundance of fishermen, in which case the paddlers have little to do with it, they will spook, but will be back in 5 to 10 minutes.   I’ve tried to spook some wild (for many decades of generations.  No stocking done in at least 20 years, maybe more like 40) trout in a fairly heavily fished stream at one of the most popular pools (It was a late Sunday afternoon and I was the only one there, btw.).  Only way I’ve found it can be done is to stand up and skyline yourself.  Noise? No problem. Vibrations on the bank?  No problem.  Swinging your arms around?  Flailing your lure wildly?  No problem.  Let them see you standing up, even a child standing up, and they’re gone.  For as long as their tiny brains can remember danger versus food.  About 5 to 10 minutes on average.  Bream and Walleye and Pike vary.  Bream are about 5 minutes, Walleye and Pike about 15.  I have no clue on Bass.  Bass tend to be under cover and hard to watch, even in very clear water. Carp and Suckers are about 5 to 10.   Now if you’re going down a popular paddling river and there’s a canoe passing the fisherman every 10 to 20 minutes or less, yes, it’ll be bad for him.  Not earth shaking where I am as I tend to fish and paddle in MN and WI, where there are lots of places to do both or either.  The very few relatively crowded trout rivers I’ve gone on do not have paddlers (well, I did once see some tourons risking hypothermia in the evening in a rubber raft.  That water is cold* and they had no warm or dry gear along.).  If, however, I went to the Montana mountain streams to trout fish, I’d be a bit bummed to have some wild paddling action going on all over the river.   But if I were on one of the kayaking rivers out East (Natuhala? Something like that) I’d be checking for dam releases and going somewhere else when there were some, because it’d be nothing but ‘yaks and rafts and inflatables all day long.  I’d rather not fish than spend my day getting pissed off.  Then again, I tend to drive the speed limit or under and stay in the right hand lane, just to preserve my temper. Hi,    I was wondering what fishermen actually prefer from kayakers and canoeists.  When paddling down stream, is it better for us to move to the opposite bank (furthest from you) or is it better to pass close to you so as not to spook fish?  Any suggestions or guidelines would be greatly appreciated.

— rbc:  vixen    Fairly harmless http://www.visi.com/~cyli

Response:

Hi,    I was wondering what fishermen actually prefer from kayakers and canoeists.  When paddling down stream, is it better for us to move to the opposite bank (furthest from you) or is it better to pass close to you so as not to spook fish?  Any suggestions or guidelines would be greatly appreciated.

Somebody else has already pointed out, we don’t "share" the water with kayakers – they have it – we leave. As somebody who has been hit, almost hit and chased from the stream by a "fiberglass hatch" of jerks, I’d like to add my two cents worth.   Rule #1 – go behind the angler – the fish are in front of him. Rule #2 – go somewhere else.  I’m not being facetious.  Anglers are constrained by a large number of factors, fishing regulations, private property, water conditions, etc.  OTOH, a kayaker can go anywhere there’s enough water to float his boat.  Don’t float prime fishing water during the best part of the fishing season.  There’s plenty of other water for you to use. Rule #3 – Learn to control your boat.  The dickhead that ran into me could’ve broken my leg. Rule #4 – when you ruin my day as you float by,  don’t smile and say, "How’s the fishing?"  I’m likely to tell you. Rule #5 – if you’re planning a big event that’ll take over a river, publicize it at the local fishing shops – then I’ll know to stay home. HTH Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Ken, Now it’s bothering me.  I know that I’ve heard or read your name before.  Do you post elsewhere? Thanks, Doug – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Doug Hall Doug,      You don’t by any chance teach at Portland State do you?      - Ken

Response:

Doug Hall

Doug,      You don’t by any chance teach at Portland State do you?      - Ken

Response:

in my part of the world,(SW Va.)there are many float fishermen. When floating and fishing should the boat give right of way to the wading fisherman? I think so…the float fisherman will cover a helluva lot more water than the one wading. It rarely happens though. I too have had jerks come way to close to me throwing them damn rackety ass buzz baits. Makes for some well placed false casts, if you know what I mean. Tim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     I was wondering what fishermen actually prefer from kayakers and canoeists.  When paddling down stream, is it better for us to move to the opposite bank (furthest from you) or is it better to pass close to you so  as not to spook fish?  Any suggestions or guidelines would be greatly appreciated. On a large enough river, it’s best if you stay as far away as possible. Most of the time, a fisherman will be casting to a fish less than 40 feet away.   On a smaller river, where the fisherman can easily cast to either bank, it ain’t gonna matter.  Not only your shadow, but any noise or water disturbance will spook a wary fish.    Just pass by as smoothly and quietly as possible with an apologetic "I’m sorry I f*cked up your pool" expression on your face.   Although we realize we sometimes have to share a river with other uses, it’s not really sharing.   Kayakers can paddle where we fish, but we can’t fish where they paddle.   Thanks for asking. Joe F.

Response:

Michael, Lets see, if you only go down the river between the hours of 8:30 to 9:15 a.m.  and then we’ll allow you another 12 minutes in the afternoon, unless there’s a hatch going on.  Other than that, stay off our rivers, because flyfishing is the ONLY acceptable use for all rivers:).  No, but really, just the fact that you are trying to be polite and a simple "excuse me" or any normal courtesy should do.  Just like passing someone in a small hallway.  I’m sure that there will be those who feel that they have exclusive right to the river (and I’m also sure that I will hear from them) but even flyfisherman have to share the river.  Maybe we should be apologizing for blocking the whole damn river with our casting?  I think that some people should take their sports a little less serious.  It’s supposed to be about fun, and if a fish gets put down occasionally, oh well. It’s happened to me more than a few times. I got over it and so will they. Thanks for asking. Doug Hall

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi,     I was wondering what fishermen actually prefer from kayakers and canoeists.  When paddling down stream, is it better for us to move to the opposite bank (furthest from you) or is it better to pass close to you so as not to spook fish?  Any suggestions or guidelines would be greatly appreciated.

Response:

    I was wondering what fishermen actually prefer from kayakers and canoeists.  When paddling down stream, is it better for us to move to the opposite bank (furthest from you) or is it better to pass close to you so as not to spook fish?  Any suggestions or guidelines would be greatly appreciated.

On a large enough river, it’s best if you stay as far away as possible. Most of the time, a fisherman will be casting to a fish less than 40 feet away.   On a smaller river, where the fisherman can easily cast to either bank, it ain’t gonna matter.  Not only your shadow, but any noise or water disturbance will spook a wary fish.    Just pass by as smoothly and quietly as possible with an apologetic "I’m sorry I f*cked up your pool" expression on your face.   Although we realize we sometimes have to share a river with other uses, it’s not really sharing.   Kayakers can paddle where we fish, but we can’t fish where they paddle.   Thanks for asking. Joe F.

Response:

Couldn’t have said it better myself ! ! ! ! ! <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    < <    <    <    <    <    <

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     I was wondering what fishermen actually prefer from kayakers and canoeists.  When paddling down stream, is it better for us to move to the opposite bank (furthest from you) or is it better to pass close to you so as not to spook fish?  Any suggestions or guidelines would be greatly appreciated. On a large enough river, it’s best if you stay as far away as possible. Most of the time, a fisherman will be casting to a fish less than 40 feet away.   On a smaller river, where the fisherman can easily cast to either bank, it ain’t gonna matter.  Not only your shadow, but any noise or water disturbance will spook a wary fish.    Just pass by as smoothly and quietly as possible with an apologetic "I’m sorry I f*cked up your pool" expression on your face.   Although we realize we sometimes have to share a river with other uses, it’s not really sharing.   Kayakers can paddle where we fish, but we can’t fish where they paddle.   Thanks for asking. Joe F.

Response:

Hi,     I was wondering what fishermen actually prefer from kayakers and canoeists.  When paddling down stream, is it better for us to move to the opposite bank (furthest from you) or is it better to pass close to you so as not to spook fish?  Any suggestions or guidelines would be greatly appreciated.

Response:

Question:

I am planning to make a trip to the Charlottes shortly so that I can partake in a little winter steelheading there. I am trying to gather as much info. as I can before I go. Does anyone know what the steelheading has been like up there this season? Specifically, I am interested in fishing the Yakoun and, possibly, the Tlell rivers. I have been to the Yakoun before, but not the Tlell. I wonder, how well suited is the Tlell to fly fishing? Are the reaches above tide water easy to get at. Any kind hearted soul who with some useful info can reach me at: Thanks in advance.

Response:

Please post info.  we are interested on your findings! Thanks. John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am planning to make a trip to the Charlottes shortly so that I can partake in a little winter steelheading there. I am trying to gather as much info. as I can before I go. Does anyone know what the steelheading has been like up there this season? Specifically, I am interested in fishing the Yakoun and, possibly, the Tlell rivers. I have been to the Yakoun before, but not the Tlell. I wonder, how well suited is the Tlell to fly fishing? Are the reaches above tide water easy to get at. Any kind hearted soul who with some useful info can reach me at: Thanks in advance.

Response:

I am planning to make a trip to the Charlottes shortly so that I can partake in a little winter steelheading there. I am trying to gather as much info.

Essential:  James Houston’s memoir Hideaway. He has had a house there for decades. — |        Carlsbad Springs, Ottawa, Canada        |

Response:

Question:

Hello to all.  I subscribed to this NG two or so weeks ago and want to ask a question as I’m not sure if it’s OK.  I’ve seen some mixed responses to similar threads so I figured I better ask first. Q –  is it OK to list a rod for sale? Seems like a great NG with plenty of knowledgeable participants.  I can certainly learn allot here as I’m fairly new to the sport (about 3 years actively flyfishing).  I spend 80% of my flyfishing time on 2-3 rivers (the size of which would make most folks outside of NJ call them streams) in northwestern NJ.  The other 20% on lakes and ponds with my 4 yr. old son and 3yr old daughter and occasionally a trip up to the Beaverkill or Willowomac with a friend who introduced my to this great sport. Well, that’s it, don’t want to overdo the intro (most likely already did though). Regards to all. Natty

Response:

got dreadlocks?              john

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hello to all.  I subscribed to this NG two or so weeks ago and want to ask a question as I’m not sure if it’s OK.  I’ve seen some mixed responses to similar threads so I figured I better ask first. Q –  is it OK to list a rod for sale? Seems like a great NG with plenty of knowledgeable participants.  I can certainly learn allot here as I’m fairly new to the sport (about 3 years actively flyfishing).  I spend 80% of my flyfishing time on 2-3 rivers (the size of which would make most folks outside of NJ call them streams) in northwestern NJ.  The other 20% on lakes and ponds with my 4 yr. old son and 3yr old daughter and occasionally a trip up to the Beaverkill or Willowomac with a friend who introduced my to this great sport. Well, that’s it, don’t want to overdo the intro (most likely already did though). Regards to all. Natty

Response:

First of all, your name rox. Q –  is it OK to list a rod for sale?

If you start the title with "FS" or "For Sale" and only put it up once you should be fine.  If it is relatively rare or valuable, yet priced ridiculously low out of ignorance, just email me first with the info and I’ll tell you if you should post it here…. I can certainly learn allot here as I’m fairly new to the sport (about 3 years actively flyfishing).  I spend 80% of my flyfishing time on 2-3 rivers (the size of which would make most folks outside of NJ call them streams) in northwestern NJ.  The other 20% on lakes and ponds with my 4 yr. old son and 3yr old daughter and occasionally a trip up to the Beaverkill or Willowomac with a friend who introduced my to this great sport.

Ummm, I was told there would be no math…. Regards, Jeff

Response:

Hello to all.  I subscribed to this NG two or so weeks ago and want to ask a question as I’m not sure if it’s OK.  I’ve seen some mixed responses to similar threads so I figured I better ask first. Q –  is it OK to list a rod for sale?

        although no one would dare speak for the whole of this bunch of anarchists and nut cases, i will hazard the opinion that a few non-commercial offers of sale would not be considered bad form, even by fortenberry. wayno

Response:

Thx for the compliment, tip and offer….nothing rare or extraordinary though. Will follow your advice. Thx again  :-) Natty

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – First of all, your name rox. Q –  is it OK to list a rod for sale? If you start the title with "FS" or "For Sale" and only put it up once you should be fine.  If it is relatively rare or valuable, yet priced ridiculously low out of ignorance, just email me first with the info and I’ll tell you if you should post it here…. I can certainly learn allot here as I’m fairly new to the sport (about 3 years actively flyfishing).  I spend 80% of my flyfishing time on 2-3 rivers (the size of which would make most folks outside of NJ call them streams) in northwestern NJ.  The other 20% on lakes and ponds with my 4 yr. old son and 3yr old daughter and occasionally a trip up to the Beaverkill or Willowomac with a friend who introduced my to this great sport. Ummm, I was told there would be no math…. Regards, Jeff

Response:

LOL…don’t I wish!  More like razor stubble. Natty

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – got dreadlocks?              john

Response:

<snip….mainly because somebody shoulda done it to Cooper a long, long time ago Near as I can figure it Hawkeye you must be somewhere on the wrong side of about 220 by now.  Gettin a bit long in the tooth for fly fishing…or just about anything else for that matter.  How’s about I just send you my address and I’ll take all that stuff off your hands? Meanwhile, welcome to ROFF and pay no mind to the bitey things in here……ain’t none of it real. Wolfgang who WOULD have written a treatise on "Fennimore Cooper’s Literary Offenses" if that hack Clemens hadn’t beat me to it!

Response:

Welcome to ROFF.  One off posts advertising private gear for sale are generally accepted without demur. Although you may be offered KY jelly from some participants, usually with explicit instructions !  Don

Question:

btw, here in nc, we call it the sidearm, m*****f*****g rhodo cast.

hee hee hee.  OK honest show of hands, who’s finally ripped off a rhodo branch that was getting in their way?? Regards, Jeff

Response:

Guilty! Cut it off, walk away and hope it doesn’t grow back before you return.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – btw, here in nc, we call it the sidearm, m*****f*****g rhodo cast. hee hee hee.  OK honest show of hands, who’s finally ripped off a rhodo branch that was getting in their way?? Regards, Jeff

Response:

Yea, I do that all the time.. it’s, uhh, on purpose, yea that’s it.. It’s amazing how well this works.. if I only had the ability to do this at will. My errant cast strung like a close line along the willows. I tried flipping the line off the willows and in the process, the fly dropped into the lie, the fish took, jumped the log and brok

– -Mark  –  Particle Salad/ Noom Room Studio  http://home.earthlink.net/~psalad  mp3 songs:  http://www.mp3.com/particlesalad

Response:

Some times we have to let the fish win — NOT!  Next time out, try a well weighted Dupont spinner.  Works every time.                     Frank Reid P.S. For those unfamiliar with the vernacular, a Dupont spinner is so-named because the pricipal manufacturer is the Dupont explosives division.  One can normally be obtained from "Crazy Lefty," the guy that works in the explosives bunker at your neighborhood rock quary for a small price. Warning:  an overuse of false casting while using one may be hazardous to your health. sportsmanship snipped – – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The fish is still there, I still try for it, but I think that’s the closest I’m going to get.

Response:

I first noticed it out of the corner of my eye, a dimple under some overhanging willows. <good story snipped

Ah, the old willow cast.   Thanks for a good one. Joe F.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I first noticed it out of the corner of my eye, a dimple under some overhanging willows. Looking closer, I saw the steady, patterned rise of a fish.  I moved into position down and across from the fish and surveyed the situation. The fish was feeding in some very shallow water and was protected by dense willows above and a log protruding from the bank just upstream from his lie. I thought that maybe a side arm cast would keep the fly low enough to clear the willows and somehow land in the small slow water feeding area behind the log. I cast, snagged the willow, broke off my fly and put down the fish. Each time there were surface feeding fish about, I would find this fish methodically sipping in his hole. For awhile, I tried to come up with something new each time I passed his lie. I tried downstream casts, but the current would either push my fly past the small area where he fed or pile it up and snag the log. During hopper season, I tried skipping a hopper into his lie but caught willows and bark. I tried my crude imitations of pile casts and curve casts but the drift would never bring the fly into his feeding lane. I bushwhacked through the thick willows on the bank where he fed, hoping to try dapping, but long before I got into position, he was put down. When I reached out to extricate the flies I had lost in the willows from my past futile attempts, I was tempted to do some trimming but that didn’t seem too sporting. I had tried everything I could think of to get a fly to this fish. I probably could have somehow swung a streamer or nymph under the log and taken the fish, but it was a consistent, steady surface feeder and I was determined to meet it on these terms. I felt the side arm cast I first tried came the closest to getting the fly where it needed to be. Each time I passed its lie I would give it a shot. I mostly caught willows, but once in a while I would get a cast in where it belonged but the current always grabbed the tippet, dragged the fly and put down the fish. After each failure, I would go upstream to a shallow run to catch a couple easy fish to appease myself. One day, after fishing the run and getting ready to head home, I looked downstream noticed the fish was again rising. I was probably 40 feet away. I have trouble hitting an area the size of a Buick at this distance, much less one the size of a pie pan lying under some willows, but what the hell, one last cast. I hauled my three weight and let a cast go. My errant cast strung like a close line along the willows. I tried flipping the line off the willows and in the process, the fly dropped into the lie, the fish took, jumped the log and broke me off. The fish is still there, I still try for it, but I think that’s the closest I’m going to get. Willi

a nice read…thanks.  btw, here in nc, we call it the sidearm, m*****f*****g rhodo cast. to make it even more challenging, as if the bizarre twists of the branches and leaves aren’t enough, at certain times of the year, the rhodos have a sticky substance at the flower heads of the branches which is stronger than any commercial glue.  put your fly or leader in it and it’s generally easier just to cut the tippet. jeff

Response:

I first noticed it out of the corner of my eye, a dimple under some overhanging willows. Looking closer, I saw the steady, patterned rise of a fish.  I moved into position down and across from the fish and surveyed the situation. The fish was feeding in some very shallow water and was protected by dense willows above and a log protruding from the bank just upstream from his lie. I thought that maybe a side arm cast would keep the fly low enough to clear the willows and somehow land in the small slow water feeding area behind the log. I cast, snagged the willow, broke off my fly and put down the fish. Each time there were surface feeding fish about, I would find this fish methodically sipping in his hole. For awhile, I tried to come up with something new each time I passed his lie. I tried downstream casts, but the current would either push my fly past the small area where he fed or pile it up and snag the log. During hopper season, I tried skipping a hopper into his lie but caught willows and bark. I tried my crude imitations of pile casts and curve casts but the drift would never bring the fly into his feeding lane. I bushwhacked through the thick willows on the bank where he fed, hoping to try dapping, but long before I got into position, he was put down. When I reached out to extricate the flies I had lost in the willows from my past futile attempts, I was tempted to do some trimming but that didn’t seem too sporting. I had tried everything I could think of to get a fly to this fish. I probably could have somehow swung a streamer or nymph under the log and taken the fish, but it was a consistent, steady surface feeder and I was determined to meet it on these terms. I felt the side arm cast I first tried came the closest to getting the fly where it needed to be. Each time I passed its lie I would give it a shot. I mostly caught willows, but once in a while I would get a cast in where it belonged but the current always grabbed the tippet, dragged the fly and put down the fish. After each failure, I would go upstream to a shallow run to catch a couple easy fish to appease myself. One day, after fishing the run and getting ready to head home, I looked downstream noticed the fish was again rising. I was probably 40 feet away. I have trouble hitting an area the size of a Buick at this distance, much less one the size of a pie pan lying under some willows, but what the hell, one last cast. I hauled my three weight and let a cast go. My errant cast strung like a close line along the willows. I tried flipping the line off the willows and in the process, the fly dropped into the lie, the fish took, jumped the log and broke me off. The fish is still there, I still try for it, but I think that’s the closest I’m going to get. Willi

Response:

Question:

My advise is, don’t fish it at all.  I’m still trying to get over a

leanard that I broke on an 8 inch stocked trout.  I did not hear a snap, nor felt a twang in the rod handle.  All of a sudden a foot of the tip section was slididng down the flyline.<BR Chances are your rod had a weak tip, a hook ding, or some other problem that finaly caused the tip to break.  One thing that will break any rod is putting too much of an arc on the tip when landing a fish – any fish.  And wiggling them around in your living room is a sure fire way to run into a wall or door with one and break the tip too. Graphite is hollow – most cane rods are solid (there are some hollow built cane rods out there) and cane is much stronger than you would think.  Lee Wulff landed many a salmon on a 6 foot cane rod.  They were once used for saltwater fsishing – and there are a good many cane spey rods in use today.  Tournament casters used Cane rods.  I’m sorry, but I have to disagree with you.  Cane rods are made for fishing. Al Manchester, NH

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Daylight Time – I have just bought one. Can anyone out there give me any tips on fishing the

thing?<< First – slow down your casting stroke.  It may take some getting used to, but if you learn to let the rod do the work for you, you will have a much better time of it. Never twist the ferrules when putting the rod together as you do with graphite.  Remember this little mantra for assembling and disasembling your rod:  Rod Together Hands Together – Rod Apart Hands Apart.  Push and pull – never twist. When fighting a heavy fish, try to turn the rod upside down for a bit of the fight.  A large fish can put a set in a cane rod – it’s rare but it can happen. Depending on the line weight of the rod, be careful throwing very heavy flies – weighted nymphs, wolly buggers – you get the idea.  My 6 weights will handle then quite well, but they put a strain on the 5 weights and below – especially those that are designated as Dry Fly actions with selicate tips.  It is a good way to break a tip. Always wipe the rod down after you finish using it and do let it dry for a day or so after fishing.  Never lean it against a wall or tree as this could cause a set too. Lastly – just fish the thing.  I have cane rods that were made in the 1930’s that still fish very well.  If a mishap should happen there are enough very good rod builders and restorers out there that getting it fixed will not be a big deal, and the price will be reasonable too. I fish cane rods almost exclusively now – and not the Paynes and Lenords – but Grangers and Heddons and South Bends – and dare i say it here – Orvis’s  - reasonably priced rods that still preform as well today as they did when they were made.  I enjoy the casting and the feel of a fish on cane.  Something that can not be duplicated in graphite – even in a Winston or T&T which are about as close to cane as you will get in graphite.  (when it comes to stripers you would have a hard time getting my PM10, Loomis or Sage away from me though – 8 9 10 wts) You are not going to throw 90 feet of line into a stiff breeze with most cane rods – but there is a magic in fishing them that can only be experianced.  Try it – you might just like it. Al Manchester NH

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You can tie right off to the top with a couple of overhand knots and a hank of line just a couple feet longer than the rod.  I like the little cork floats with the toothpicks.  Slide one of them up about 3 feet and set it. Don’t bother with snelled hooks, too expensive.  Just get a box of regular old bait hooks.   Add one (or none) small split shot about 8 inches above the hook.   Impale a shiner through the lips and holding your cane rod in one hand and the fish in the other sorta ’shwiang’ it on out there by a stump or pier foorting or the fender of that old Buick sunk out there and just pay real close attention to the cork.   When it goes under, give a sharp pull up and sorta ’shwiang’ the bluegill or perch or catfish right up on the bank.  When are ya goin’,  I’ll bring the hooch…. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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Can anyone out there give me any tips on fishing the thing?

Sorry I forgot to sign my post Love&peace Mick Hendry

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Cane rods are for wiggling in your living room, PERIOD.

Thanks Pete I needed that , what line would you recommend for a 7 1/2 foot, no 6 1/2 foot rod  :( mick

Response:

My advise is, don’t fish it at all.  I’m still trying to get over a leanard that I broke on an 8 inch stocked trout.  I did not hear a snap, nor felt a twang in the rod handle.  All of a sudden a foot of the tip section was slididng down the flyline. Cane rods are for wiggling in your living room, PERIOD.

Get real, people have been fishing these things since the turn of the century, they didn’t suddenly become fragile and useless when graphite was invented. I just spent 2.5 days fishing heavy nymphs and split shot on my 8.5′ Granger without any problems and lord knows there’s enough people out there who are fishing their cane rods fulltime for years and years without a problem. As for advice for the original poster, just remember to let your rod dry out — you can put it back in the case for the trip home but it’s usually a good idea to let the bag and rod dry for a day or two.  If you do encounter problems they’re usually related to the ferrules — just remember not to twist the rod when you’re seating the ferrules. And avoid those car doors… Good luck! TC

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having read the recent arguments about John Gierach over the recent months I read "Trout Bum" and enjoyed the idea of fishing cane rods so I have just bought one. Can anyone out there give me any tips on fishing the thing? Tips on playing,landing etc and how to care for the rod. I know I must keep it away  from the porcupines but there are not many up here in Yorkshire

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My advise is, don’t fish it at all.  I’m still trying to get over a leanard that I broke on an 8 inch stocked trout.  I did not hear a snap, nor felt a twang in the rod handle.  All of a sudden a foot of the tip section was slididng down the flyline. Cane rods are for wiggling in your living room, PERIOD. Pete C

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Question:

Sounds like fun!  Where do I order supplies? Thanks!

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Good idea Judy— I "haunt" office supplies places like Staples and Office Depot to look for clear or transluscent envelopes which are probably similar to what you are describing. Makes it so easy to find what you are working on and looks very neat stored. Since I bought my see through vinyl bag, I want to buy more! It looks so neat storing my current project and because I never work on one thing at a time—I can use a few more clear vinyl bags to store other ongoing projects as well as stash I need right away. I shall be looking at the July summer sales so I can buy more clear vinyl tote bags! I’ve noticed clear vinyl zipper cosmetic bags in different sizes too but the ones I wanted to buy had shampoos and lotions in them I didn’t want—does anyone know a source to buy these bags…empty? — Lula from Wooly Dreams Design I only like WORK when it’s attached to a NEEDLE…. http://home.earthlink.net/~woolydream/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Lula, Mine is on show as well… I have a small [I work in hand] zip lock carry thing (technical term) 24cm x 18cm. [Just dug one out... they are Transparent Data Envelopes]  The really good thing about them is that the chart of my carry along project can be placed against one side and is easy to read without removal. The only problem is that the buisness card holder isn’t quite wide enough for my bus weekly [if bought Monday they die around Thursday].

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Hi Judy I read your memo on plastic bags for needlework.  Do not leave your needlepoint in plastic bags for a very long time.  Wool needs to breathe and if it is in plastic it does not breathe.  For a short time its o.k. But not good for a long period of time; the wool will rot.  I am a needlepointer and new to AOL.  I have been on Compuserve.  I am thinking of cancelling Compuserve. EdithNYC  

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I know similar advice has been posted before, but friends, check out the fishing section of your local sporting goods store. There are all sorts of nifty little (and big) carrying cases with compartments just right for our stitching stuff. Yesterday I was looking for some fishing line to use for basting gridlines on my linen (helps count, doesn’t get caught in the stitches) and came home with a soft-sided zippered case designed for fishing supplies. It has heavyweight zip-lock style bags with sturdy adhesive tabs with holes to go on the two rings attached to the bag. The outside of the case is water repellent and has a handle. It’s perfect for carting around all of those odd fibers for my current needlepoint project. I’ll post the name brand, etc. of the one I bought if anyone is interested, but just go and see what they have in your area.

You are soooo right about the fishing department.  I got a great little box that fits in my tote bag at KMart’s department – 2 sides with compartments – now holding my sissors, needles (in small wooden cases), pen, pencil….. the modern "chatalaine"!  I also got a set of small cases that screw together for a better price than the craft "megastore" nearby.  Also, if you or DH or someone else fly fishes and ties flys – my DH is always eying my stash – he loves the many different fibers – especially some of the flashy ones.  Now, I always go along when he wants fishing stuff and he likes to come along when I go to the XS or needlepoint store… Kandy June

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I know similar advice has been posted before, but friends, check out the fishing section of your local sporting goods store.

        SNIP  I’ll post the name brand, etc. of the one I bought if anyone is interested, but just go and see what they have in your area. I’m interested — please post the info! Chris

Okay, Chris, the case I bought is called a Spinner Wrap, brand name TackleLogic, manufactured by AmSport. There are also two larger wrap cases with different names, but the same basic design. I found mine at Oshman’s here in Houston. June

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Since I have no shame in showing off my needlepoint wherever I go, I found the ultimate show-off the needlework carrying bag today! A clear plastic see through tote bag of heavy gauge vinyl (not like the plastic handled–thin clear plastic carrying bags) with a tab lock on top–and two long handles.

Hi Lula, Mine is on show as well… I have a small [I work in hand] zip lock carry thing (technical term) 24cm x 18cm. [Just dug one out... they are Transparent Data Envelopes]  The really good thing about them is that the chart of my carry along project can be placed against one side and is easy to read without removal. The only problem is that the buisness card holder isn’t quite wide enough for my bus weekly [if bought Monday they die around Thursday]. Judy  

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In that case, how ’bout the new bags by Ziploc?  I’m talking about the plastic bags sold specifically for veggie storage.  They’re riddled w/ holes, to allow the veggies to breathe. pj I read your memo on plastic bags for needlework.  Do not leave your needlepoint in plastic bags for a very long time.  Wool needs to breathe and if it is in plastic it does not breathe.  For a short time its o.k.

… — WCU Computer Center          | Western Carolina University  |  "Now, if I had a brain and it wasn’t Cullowhee, N.C. 28723        |   in my head, where would I keep it?" 704-227-7282                 |                          -Ryan Steele

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I read your memo on plastic bags for needlework.  Do not leave your needlepoint in plastic bags for a very long time.  Wool needs to breathe and if it is in plastic it does not breathe.  For a short time its o.k. But not good for a long period of time; the wool will rot.  I am a needlepointer

Edith: What is a short time and what is a long time?   I use Ziploc bags for my works-in-progress.  I stitch my way through meetings and dropping a Ziploc into my tote is easy.   Also, the Ziplocs keep things separated in the basket at home.   I estimate a needlepoint (with wool) project is in progress for 6-8 months (depending on my enthusiasm and the number of meetings I have). Speaking of plastic, I keep all my Paternayan in Rubbermaid plastic storage boxes.  I have for about 10 years.  To my eye and nose the yarn is as fresh as it would be had it continued to live in the copier-paper boxes it had inhabited before.  (Rubbermaid is translucent, copier paper boxes aren’t, hence the change.)    Last year, temporarily, my sewing room was in the basement.   Neither yarn nor floss nor fabric (I am a quilter) suffered.    [Basement is finished and a dehumidifier runs all summer. -- I'm able to be up- stairs now and appreciate the sunlight.] Nann

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Since I have no shame in showing off my needlepoint wherever I go, I found the ultimate show-off the needlework carrying bag today! A clear plastic see through tote bag of heavy gauge vinyl (not like the plastic handled–thin clear plastic carrying bags) with a tab lock on top–and two long handles. I always did think it was a shame to hide all those pretty yarns and threads along with the canvas stretched on scroll bars that I happen to be working on! Now I can be a show off for the summer months when I head off on my travels again. No problem with moisture–the bag is an open tote and kept out of the sun. — Lula from Wooly Dreams Design http://home.earthlink.net/~woolydream/

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Since I have no shame in showing off my needlepoint wherever I go, I found the ultimate show-off the needlework carrying bag today! A clear plastic see through tote bag of heavy gauge vinyl (not like the plastic handled–thin clear plastic carrying bags) with a tab lock on top–and two long handles.

And are you planning on letting us know where we can get such a bag?   Hmmmm????  ;) Tara R. Scholtz         University of Maryland at College Park If training has not made a horse more beautiful, nobler in carriage, more attentive in his behavior, revealing pleasure in his own accomplishment…then he has not truly been schooled in dressage.                                 -Col. Handler

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Hi Tara– Since you’re in MD — take a ride to Laurel and the big open shopping center on RT 1 — it’s a shop named Gallo a few doors from the Woolworths—this is the first time I went there–it’a place full of inexpensive clothing and accessories. There were some bigger clear vinly tote bags there too with a black quilted bottom and trim—leopard bottom and trim and gold vinyl trim one. Also other vinyl totes in see through bright colors. All the different sized bags were all priced at $10 Nice and fun way to tote around and show off the needlework you’re working on!!! — Lula from Wooly Dreams Design http://home.earthlink.net/~woolydream/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – And are you planning on letting us know where we can get such a bag? Hmmmm????  ;) Tara R. Scholtz         University of Maryland at College Park

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 Since I have no shame in showing off my needlepoint wherever I go, I  found the ultimate show-off the needlework carrying bag today!  A clear plastic see through tote bag of heavy gauge vinyl (not like the  plastic handled–thin clear plastic carrying bags) with a tab lock on  top–and two long handles. TAnd are you planning on letting us know where we can get such a bag?  Hmmmm????  ;)   Well I don’t know about any one elses bags but I made mine. I was looking for a specific piece of fabric in my stash when I ran across a piece I had stitched a while back and had put back into the box of fabrics when done pending money for framing. Well I set the piece aside on the sewing table to get the the fabric I needed and when I went to pick up the stitched dragon I noticed to my amazement that the fabric I had been working a quilt with matched the color of the dragon I went out and bought another yard of that fabric and used the dragon for the front of a "tote bag" to haul my stitching projects with  Made it about 20 inches tall and about 15 inches wide with long carry straps that would allow to go over the shoulder. Used some scraps of batting and muslin to line it with for strength and added a few pockets for things like pencils (for pattern marking) and scissors and extra needles.  No pattern used just sat at the table and played with the fabric and it came out great. Scroll frame fits in well with loads of room for a small tackle box (to hold floss bobbins and scissors and extra needles) as well as a clip board with the pattern which allows me to lean it up against something to see the pattern while I stitch. Roseanne Brown Please do not add my name to any mail list unless I ask for it. —  * QMPro 1.51 * Work is for people who don’t know how to stitch.

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This sounds *wonderful*!!  Where, oh where, did you find such a treasure?!!! C’mon, share!!! Sherri

: Since I have no shame in showing off my needlepoint wherever I go, I : found the ultimate show-off the needlework carrying bag today! : A clear plastic see through tote bag of heavy gauge vinyl (not like the : plastic handled–thin clear plastic carrying bags) with a tab lock on : top–and two long handles. : I always did think it was a shame to hide all those pretty yarns and : threads along with the canvas stretched on scroll bars that I happen to : be working on! : Now I can be a show off for the summer months when I head off on my : travels again. No problem with moisture–the bag is an open tote and : kept out of the sun. : — : Lula from Wooly Dreams Design : http://home.earthlink.net/~woolydream/

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Hi Sherri– I posted a follow up post to Tara S on where I found my see through vinyl needlework tote bag. However, I see you are in PA so where I bought mine won’t be applicable to you. Some the best places to find different and useful odds and ends are those boutique stores one finds in many malls—-places like Claire’s Accessories. Very often you’ll find inexpensive neat little plastic cases and zippered bags that can be used for holding needlework accessories. Or go look in beach wear or accessory departments to find more see through bags in different materials. Like the almost transparent nylon mesh used for nice looking tote style bags too. I bought a black zippered tote bag of nylon mesh that I carry and show off my bigger pieces of working needlepoint—and that only cost $7. on sale! — Lula from Wooly Dreams Design http://home.earthlink.net/~woolydream/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This sounds *wonderful*!!  Where, oh where, did you find such a treasure?!!! C’mon, share!!! Sherri : Since I have no shame in showing off my needlepoint wherever I go, I : found the ultimate show-off the needlework carrying bag today! : A clear plastic see through tote bag of heavy gauge vinyl (not like the : plastic handled–thin clear plastic carrying bags) with a tab lock on : top–and two long handles.

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For people in Canada,  Mountain Equipment Co-op (a wilderness outfitters type shop) sells bags like this.  They are see through. Since they are constructed for heavy duty work, they may be a little much for some.  If I remember correctly, they come in various sizes. Cheers, Nancy Lorraine – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Since I have no shame in showing off my needlepoint wherever I go, I found the ultimate show-off the needlework carrying bag today! A clear plastic see through tote bag of heavy gauge vinyl (not like the plastic handled–thin clear plastic carrying bags) with a tab lock on top–and two long handles. I always did think it was a shame to hide all those pretty yarns and threads along with the canvas stretched on scroll bars that I happen to be working on! Now I can be a show off for the summer months when I head off on my travels again. No problem with moisture–the bag is an open tote and kept out of the sun. — Lula from Wooly Dreams Design http://home.earthlink.net/~woolydream/

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I know similar advice has been posted before, but friends, check out the fishing section of your local sporting goods store. There are all sorts of nifty little (and big) carrying cases with compartments just right for our stitching stuff. Yesterday I was looking for some fishing line to use for basting gridlines on my linen (helps count, doesn’t get caught in the stitches) and came home with a soft-sided zippered case designed for fishing supplies. It has heavyweight zip-lock style bags with sturdy adhesive tabs with holes to go on the two rings attached to the bag. The outside of the case is water repellent and has a handle. It’s perfect for carting around all of those odd fibers for my current needlepoint project. I’ll post the name brand, etc. of the one I bought if anyone is interested, but just go and see what they have in your area. June

Response:

I know similar advice has been posted before, but friends, check out the fishing section of your local sporting goods store. There are all sorts of nifty little (and big) carrying cases with compartments just right for our stitching stuff. Yesterday I was looking for some fishing line to use for basting gridlines on my linen (helps count, doesn’t get caught in the stitches) and came home with a soft-sided zippered case designed for fishing supplies. It has heavyweight zip-lock style bags with sturdy adhesive tabs with holes to go on the two rings attached to the bag. The outside of the case is water repellent and has a handle. It’s perfect for carting around all of those odd fibers for my current needlepoint project. I’ll post the name brand, etc. of the one I bought if anyone is interested, but just go and see what they have in your area.

I’m interested — please post the info! Chris

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Question:

 HI All,         I am looking for links for good fishing sites to add to my links page. If anyone has a good link or web site that isn’t already on the list could you please e-mail the address along with the title of the site and what country it is in. —   Davy Holt Surfing from Clydebank Scotland *  " O Sir, doubht not that angling is                                 *    an art… The question is rather Scottish Angling Homepage       *    whether you are capable of learning   http://www.dholt.demon.co.uk    *    it?"                                                                        Izaak Walton

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Hello, I used a great guide service in the Boundary Waters Canoe Area last year and would recommend it to anyone who was looking. Their webpage is at:  http://members.aol.com/canoetrail/bwcaw.html check it out!

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Fly fishing for Stripers in Cape Elizabeth, Maine Fly fishing for Reds on Cumberland Island, Georgia Reply:  North Atlantic Guides

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WE ARE PLANNING ON GOING TO SANNIBELL (SP?) ISLAND THIS SPRING, ANY TIPS?

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Question:

I am trying to contact the Martin Reel company.  They seemed to have closed both their factory in Mohawk, NY where my fly reel   was manufactured and their customer service office in Tulsa OK, which is listed on my warranty card.  Good thing I decided to call before sending my reel in for repairs!  I thought my troubles were solved when I found a phone# for Martin Reels in a recent product review in Flyfishing magazine, but instead it was the residence of one very irrate lady who sounded pretty fed up with people calling about fly reels.  Anyway, if you happen to know a phone number for Martin Reels, or have a recent warranty card with a new address or phone number I would certainly appreciate it! Roger. —  Roger S. Barga     | Department of Computer Science and Engineering                     | Oregon Graduate Institute of Science and Technology (503) 690-1121 7308 | P.O. Box 91000

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I am trying to contact the Martin Reel company.  They seemed to have closed both their factory in Mohawk, NY where my fly reel   was manufactured and their customer service office in Tulsa OK, which is listed on my warranty card.  Good thing I decided to call before sending my reel in for repairs!  I thought my troubles were solved when I found a phone# for Martin Reels in a recent product review in Flyfishing magazine, but instead it was the residence of one very irrate lady who sounded pretty fed up with people calling about fly reels.  Anyway, if you happen to know a phone number for Martin Reels, or have a recent warranty card with a new address or phone number I would certainly appreciate it! Roger.

Martin was bought by Zebco, hence the Tulsa address, so you should be able to call them. -bruce pencek — Political Science, Box 15036      as eternal salvation — come by grace and   Northern Arizona University       grace comes by art and art does not come Flagstaff, AZ  86011-5036         easy."                 — Norman Maclean

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