Question:

We are approaching critical mass–and a dangerous time–that of sinking poll numbers for Bush, and the revelation of the proofs that the towers were hit by missles from specially outfitted planes, and the proof that the towers came down thru controlled demoliton. That’s more than enough proof.  The website http://www.letsroll911.org is ranked as among the top 25K downloaded sites on the Internet in the past month. But with these two events closing in on the Bush administration, the falling polls, and the complicity of 9/11 getting known, may trigger another attack, and the declaration of martial law, in order to cancel the election, shut down the Internet as we know it, and to clamp down on further discussion of 9/11. Some say we are already in a partial police state,  and some say we now more everything that has been said, the Congress, the military,  the media, does nothing.  Obviously they are persuaded to do nothing. http://www.911sharethetruth.com 9-11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB–OUR NATION IS IN PERIL       – A Call to All True Patriots –    We have actively studied the questionable nature of the official version of what happened to our nation on September 11, 2001. Throughout the first year after 9-11 we ignored and did not believe those who asked us to question the official story. Like millions of Americans we believed America had been attacked by terrorists from abroad. Sadly, we are now convinced that our government committed a vicious criminal act against its own citizens for the larger purpose of swaying us to support both domestic and foreign policies mapped out in the mid and late 1990’s. 9-11 was Hitler’s Reichstag fire of 1933 and Roosevelt’s Pearl Harbor masterfully coordinated to achieve the desired ends of an imperialistic role for America in the world, patriotic support at home and the erosion of our constitutional rights. In a nutshell, the war on terrorism is a cruel hoax by a misguided, out-of-democratic control small group of individuals sabotaging the best of American values. We are in the midst of a constitutional crisis combined with severe domination from an Orwellian corporate media knowingly or unknowingly being of service to the true powerbrokers behind the curtain. We feel like we are living in the "Matrix" where we can blend in, but knowing something is horribly wrong and must be exposed. The quality of life for all of our loved ones is at stake along with the hopes of millions of people for a world of peace, freedom and ecological sustainability. If just a few of you take the time to study a little more and become involved in the 9-11 truth movement we will be greatly appreciative. We strongly feel that people of all progressive movements should involve themselves in this effort to expose the truth about 9-11 and in the greatest push ever from the grassroots to nonviolently replace our current despotic leadership. It would have tremendous positive consequences to all of our progressive movements if similar to the fall of Nixon over Watergate that the Bush administration was exposed on this and replaced. This outrageous criminal act must be brought to justice and our freedoms restored. We need to reach out now to all those who may be willing to hear and break the silence. Go to site for posters, cassettes, buttons… http://www.911sharethetruth.com

Response:

We are approaching critical mass–and a dangerous time–that of sinking poll numbers for Bush, and the revelation of the proofs that the towers were hit by missles from specially outfitted planes, and the proof that the towers came down thru controlled demoliton. That’s more than enough proof.  The website http://www.letsroll911.org is ranked as among the top 25K downloaded sites on the Internet in the past month.

Yep, it was an inside job….the planes blew up INSIDE the buildings. Gee, you are so smart.  You are right about specially outfitted planes… aircraft slamming into the side of a building would go in just like a missle.  And correct again about the controlled demolition…those terrorists must have been really skilled to be able to CONTROL the way they demolished the buildings. By the way numbnuts, watch the footage again.  The buildings did not collapse starting from the bottom.  A controlled demolition would not have been done in the basement, but would have needed to take out at least a dozen floors with the size of the buildings and taken at least a week to plan, and implement.  I think people would have gotten just a mite suspicious with work crews cutting through the structural pilings, setting shaped charges and running primer cord throughout the buildings. The quality of the steel made back when the towers were constructed was poor compared to today.  The structural tolerance was quite low.  The intense heat would collapse the pilings.  And the weight exerted by the upper floors would and did cause the lower ones to fail, causing a cascade failure.  The only way the building would have toppled is if the lower pilings were strong enough to hold back the collapsing upper floors and deflect the path of the fall.  But, as we all saw, it did not. Cease and decist your trolling.  People are getting sick of your freakish extremist "moveon.orgism". GO AWAY!!!!     *PLONK*

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We are approaching critical mass–and a dangerous time–that of sinking poll numbers for Bush, and the revelation of the proofs that the towers were hit by missles from specially outfitted planes, and the proof that the towers came down thru controlled demoliton. That’s more than enough proof.  The website http://www.letsroll911.org is ranked as among the top 25K downloaded sites on the Internet in the past month. But with these two events closing in on the Bush administration, the falling polls, and the complicity of 9/11 getting known, may trigger another attack, and the declaration of martial law, in order to cancel the election, shut down the Internet as we know it, and to clamp down on further discussion of 9/11. Some say we are already in a partial police state,  and some say we now more everything that has been said, the Congress, the military,  the media, does nothing.  Obviously they are persuaded to do nothing. Yup – and yet the media still refuses to even question the wacko bush conspriracy explanation for 9-11.  Thank gof for the net or it would truly be hopeless.

What does gof have to do with anything. — Retired military and damn proud of it.

Response:

Yup – and yet the media still refuses to even question the wacko bush conspriracy explanation for 9-11.  Thank gof for the net or it would truly be hopeless. Indeed.  Being uncensored,

Free press would also be uncensored.                                       the net provides the ideal soapbox for every paranoid conspiracy theorist who knows how to use a keyboard.

Which does not mean that everything on the net or in ng’s that does not conform to your beliefs is conspiracy theory. Expressions like "conspiracy theory" appeal to the irrational side of people, and so serve only to cloud the issues. The official story of 9/11 is also a conspiracy theory: several people conspired to execute the attacks; and the story is no more than a theory because there is only precious little evidence to support it. And of all the conspiracy theories so far presented, the official story is among the silliest. Matti P.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Which does not mean that everything on the net or in ng’s that does not conform to your beliefs is conspiracy theory. This is true.  Yet, just because it does not conform to my beliefs does not automatically mean that it is accurate. Expressions like "conspiracy theory" appeal to the irrational side of people, and so serve only to cloud the issues. The official story of 9/11 is also a conspiracy theory: several people conspired to execute the attacks; and the story is no more than a theory because there is only precious little evidence to support it. Perhaps then I should have used the full term "paranoid conspiracy theory" – addressing those ideas that attempt to explain facts that have already been explained, but in a far more bizarre and usually convoluted manner that reassures the wannabe Fox Mulder that The Truth Really Is Out There, and that THEY do not want you to know about it.  It is really only a desire on the part of the theorist to demonstrate their ability to outwit THEM, despite all the barriers THEY supposedly put in the theorists’ way.

I understood your point; just wanted to clarify terms. And of all the conspiracy theories so far presented, the official story is among the silliest. Oh, by no means.  In my experience, by far the silliest theory yet put forward is by the Paranoid Conspiracy Theorists (PCTs) themselves.

Please note: I said "among the silliest", not "the silliest". Matti P. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -This is the notion that the attack on the Pentagon was carried out not by a terrorist in a hijacked 767, but by a remote-controlled drone plane or missile, packed with explosives and painted (this is priceless) in American Airlines livery to fool onlookers (who presumably cannot tell the difference between a liner and a missile or fighter), whilst the actual 767 was landed at an airport nearby having been flown OVER the Pentagon in the confusion.  The passengers were later ‘disappeared’ by the CIA. There are more holes in this ludicrous ‘explanation’ than in a standard fishing net – and yet it is passed reverently from PCT to PCT as though it is some holy gospel of truth.  In comparison to that, at least to those who have even the slightest grip on the real world, the official line, whilst perhaps open to question in some areas, seems to make far more sense. — Midjis

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Which does not mean that everything on the net or in ng’s that does not conform to your beliefs is conspiracy theory. This is true.  Yet, just because it does not conform to my beliefs does not automatically mean that it is accurate. Expressions like "conspiracy theory" appeal to the irrational side of people, and so serve only to cloud the issues. The official story of 9/11 is also a conspiracy theory: several people conspired to execute the attacks; and the story is no more than a theory because there is only precious little evidence to support it. Perhaps then I should have used the full term "paranoid conspiracy theory" – addressing those ideas that attempt to explain facts that have already been explained, but in a far more bizarre and usually convoluted manner that reassures the wannabe Fox Mulder that The Truth Really Is Out There, and that THEY do not want you to know about it.  It is really only a desire on the part of the theorist to demonstrate their ability to outwit THEM, despite all the barriers THEY supposedly put in the theorists’ way. And of all the conspiracy theories so far presented, the official story is among the silliest. Oh, by no means.  In my experience, by far the silliest theory yet put forward is by the Paranoid Conspiracy Theorists (PCTs) themselves.  This is the notion that the attack on the Pentagon was carried out not by a terrorist in a hijacked 767, but by a remote-controlled drone plane or missile, packed with explosives and painted (this is priceless) in American Airlines livery to fool onlookers (who presumably cannot tell the difference between a liner and a missile or fighter), whilst the actual 767 was landed at an airport nearby having been flown OVER the Pentagon in the confusion.  The passengers were later ‘disappeared’ by the CIA. There are more holes in this ludicrous ‘explanation’ than in a standard fishing net – and yet it is passed reverently from PCT to PCT as though it is some holy gospel of truth.  In comparison to that, at least to those who have even the slightest grip on the real world, the official line, whilst perhaps open to question in some areas, seems to make far more sense. — Midjis

But there is conclusive physical evidence that no 767 hit the Pentagon, in fact no evidence of fusilage of any plane found.. The fact that two, one piece that does not match photographed on the lawn points to conspiracy. There was no American Airlines flight 77 scheduled to fly that day. There is conclusive physical evididence that no  passenger jet plane hit the 1st tower or penetrated it. {The film shown shown the following day  9/12, was  crudely edited.  You can see it by looking for the evidence "first plane")  There is only three small holes in the building, none greater that a few feet. There was no American Airlines flight 11 scheduled to fly that day.  What few eye witnesses say a very small plane, holding no more than 10-12 seats, or "a missle with wings".  Check out the examination of that flight and the photos  on thewebfairy.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The sheer volume of web articles devoted to the idea that there is ‘conclusive physical evidence’ of anything of the sort is absolutely staggering.  Particularly since there is no such evidence. Patently false. Yes, it is easy to say that, is it not?  But I would be interested to see you provide some of this supposed evidence – and try to do slightly better than the photos you directed me to in the other thread. — Midjis ~~ ama semper quisquis noces

Blow me.

Response:

The sheer volume of web articles devoted to the idea that there is ‘conclusive physical evidence’ of anything of the sort is absolutely staggering.  Particularly since there is no such evidence. Patently false. Yes, it is easy to say that, is it not?  But I would be interested to see you provide some of this supposed evidence – and try to do slightly better than the photos you directed me to in the other thread.

http://www.aeronautics.ru/img/img006/sweetdeal_title.jpg This one doesn’t NECCESARILY prove anything, other than that a KC-767 prototype did in fact exist, but it’s very telling nevertheless. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — Midjis ~~ ama semper quisquis noces

Response:

Question:

Jeff,   Just so I have the details correctly: 1 dry and 1 wet caddis, in orange. Size can be anything the tyer wishes?                               Tom

Response:

Jeff,   Just so I have the details correctly: 1 dry and 1 wet caddis, in orange. Size can be anything the tyer wishes?                               Tom

okay.  see how agreeable i am… jeff (btw, yer now on the rules committee)

Response:

jeff writes: btw, yer now on the rules committee

man, this place is getting like my workplace! People calling me dumbo and maggot, now the committees!  AARRRGH!                                  Tom now, about that matter of defining "orange"

Response:

Tom writes: now, about that matter of defining "orange"

Yes.  And perhaps a recipe….. Dave

Response:

Dave writes: Yes.  And perhaps a recipe…..

no, that would take all of the creativity out of it.                          Tom

Response:

Tom writes: Dave writes: Yes.  And perhaps a recipe….. no, that would take all of the creativity out of it.

Aha!  I see….. heh, heh, heh.

Response:

So can i go buy some caddis and spay paint them orange ???Are these going to be distrubited to all entries into the rodeo ? Also bareback or saddle broncs? And i would imagine there will be alot of bull there also.                    Handyman Mike           Standing in a river waving a stick

Response:

jeff writes: btw, yer now on the rules committee man, this place is getting like my workplace! People calling me dumbo and maggot, now the committees!  AARRRGH!                                  Tom now, about that matter of defining "orange"

If you’re tying Jeffies flies, I think you should be *real* creative.

Response:

Stan writes: If you’re tying Jeffies flies, I think you should be *real* creative.

well, shoot! Within a minute or two after scrambling down the bank, they will all be wet flies anyway!                                 Tom p.s. I am tying flies for myownself, thanks!

Response:

Stan writes: If you’re tying Jeffies flies, I think you should be *real* creative.

hmmm… may i suggest a bunch of orange thread and deerhair on a bottle opener? i lose bottle openers some kinda bad. p.s. I am tying flies for myownself, thanks!

kinda kills the swap idea then don’t it? jeff

Response:

Jeff writes: p.s. I am tying flies for myownself, thanks! kinda kills the swap idea then don’t it?

sorry if you misunderstood, I just wasn’t tying "proxy" flies for others. However, can someone clear up this confusion? Are we having a swap or also a one-fly angling contest at Blue Rock Hole? Ignorant little shit which I am, I am starting to get murky on the details.                                  Tom

Response:

Jeff writes: p.s. I am tying flies for myownself, thanks! kinda kills the swap idea then don’t it? sorry if you misunderstood, I just wasn’t tying "proxy" flies for others. However, can someone clear up this confusion? Are we having a swap or also a one-fly angling contest at Blue Rock Hole? Ignorant little shit which I am, I am starting to get murky on the details.                                  Tom

sorry about the murky details – it’s residue from the anticlave thing. anyway, yer the rules committee, so issue a ruling.  i thought we were tying, swapping, and then fishing the swaps (orange caddis only) at the axelrad rodeo at the blue rock hole. jeff

Response:

jeff clarifies: orry about the murky details – it’s residue from the anticlave thing. anyway, yer the rules committee, so issue a ruling.  i thought we were tying, swapping, and then fishing the swaps (orange caddis only) at the axelrad rodeo at the blue rock hole.

Wow, is this stuff complicated!  I mean, I invited you damned confeder….er, I mean Southerners up here, and now we have this convoluted mess!  Good Lord!  I say we tie them, swap them and then all go and get drunk after we drop them in the woods someplace whilst trying to sort them into boxes. Pretty much what is going to happen anyway, I figure. Alright, I will go along with your version, but don’t say I didn’t warn you, this is going to get Ugly. Good of you to take care of those tshirts for me.                                     Tom

Response:

Hearing about this rodeo, I couldn’t resist… Two cowboys are out on the range talking about their favorite sex positions. One says, "I think I enjoy the rodeo position the best." "I don’t think I have ever heard of that one," says the other cowboy. "What is it?" "Well, it’s where you get your wife down on all fours and you mount her from behind. Then you reach around and cup each one  of her  breasts in your hands and whisper in her ear, ‘Boy, these feel just like your sister’s.’ Then you try and hold on for 8 seconds." – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well alrighty then… here it is.  Participants must tie one dry and one wet/nymph.  Only those attending the Penns clave can join the swap, but, you can have a surrogate (only one) tie your flies for you to be sent to me (only way wayno and pj could participate).  So, sign up, name your seconds (the one whats gonna tie your flies) and send them to me. I’ll send my snail mail address to those participating. Now, before anybody else makes the solicitation, I need a surrogate to tie my flies – with full attribution to you, of course!  Wolfgang, Mike Connor, rw, willi (if you aren’t attending), warren (if you aren’t attending), daytripper, petah c, somebody…i know one of you guys (or girls?) will be happy to help me out <G. Those who sign up and who attend the Penns clave automatically will be entered as participants in the 1st Annual Axelrad Memorial Bizarre Fly Rodeo at the Blue Rock Hole.  You will be allowed to use only orange caddis – dry and/or wet/nymph – for the duration of the rodeo at the Blue Rock Hole.  Further details will be announced by the Board of Directors, once we figure out who the hell they are gonna be. jeff

Response:

(SPLORK VANG MU!) I’ll try to remember that one Jeff.  Good one. bruce h

Response:

Well alrighty then… here it is.  Participants must tie one dry and one wet/nymph.  Only those attending the Penns clave can join the swap, but, you can have a surrogate (only one) tie your flies for you to be sent to me (only way wayno and pj could participate).  So, sign up, name your seconds (the one whats gonna tie your flies) and send them to me. I’ll send my snail mail address to those participating. Now, before anybody else makes the solicitation, I need a surrogate to tie my flies – with full attribution to you, of course!  Wolfgang, Mike Connor, rw, willi (if you aren’t attending), warren (if you aren’t attending), daytripper, petah c, somebody…i know one of you guys (or girls?) will be happy to help me out <G. Those who sign up and who attend the Penns clave automatically will be entered as participants in the 1st Annual Axelrad Memorial Bizarre Fly Rodeo at the Blue Rock Hole.  You will be allowed to use only orange caddis – dry and/or wet/nymph – for the duration of the rodeo at the Blue Rock Hole.  Further details will be announced by the Board of Directors, once we figure out who the hell they are gonna be. jeff

Response:

Question:

ideal stream for a last minute fish as you are heading home (once, rachel waited in our packed car for 20 minutes while i had a "last fish" on our way home),

So the common thread here in your recent posts is that you are an expert at testing the patience of women  Hope Walt wasn’t beaten too severely for spending time with you instead of his lady. – Mu

Response:

        on day 2, i explored some of the watauga county backroads, looking for new and remote streams, and found a couple areas i’ll try to convince walt to sample with me.  walt is an extraordinarily good fishing companion and has an ability to fish many of the tough areas…an ability i lack. one of the back roads intersected with the blue ridge parkway, which runs along a ridge above the valley in which my cabin sits.  i was close to a stream i literally fell into some years.  it runs beside the parkway at about 3000 feet elevation, but is about 30 to 50 feet below the parkway.  there are some large pull-offs and parking areas beside the road, so it’s not a hidden location by any means.  i discovered it years ago on the way from upper boone’s fork, frustrated with all the hikers and crowds in and around that stream, on the last day of a trip. determined to fish someplace new, but without much time to do so, i stopped, geared up, and proceeded to fall/trip/butt-bump/slide down a steep bank to within 10 feet of the stream.  rod unbroken, but spirit bent, i fished about 100 yards of a lovely stream, even with the sounds of traffic on the blue ridge parkway overhead.  it consisted of small holding or pocket waters with a nice gradient allowing adequate cover for a blundering buffoon like me to sneak up and float a dry fly.  i was stunned when i caught a 6 inch brook trout. since that trip, i have fished the stream on numerous occasions and always caught a brookie.  on this trip, in the 100 yards i usually fish, i caught 5 of the beauties.  i had always assumed it was necessary to find the remotest and highest locations in the blue ridge watersheds to catch wild brookies…but here they are in a stream beside the parkway, near privately owned meadows, and easily accessed by the general public in just a brief walk (or tumble) down a bank.  this is an ideal stream for a last minute fish as you are heading home (once, rachel waited in our packed car for 20 minutes while i had a "last fish" on our way home), or as an appetizer as you are heading for other waters.  it’s not on the delorme and as best i can tell is not stocked at all…i’ve never caught a stocked fish in it.           day 3, a bit hung over from last evening’s libations and with rainy weather coming in, i fished the stream in front of my cabin.  although it has some trout in it (i’ve caught a 10 inch rainbow and a 12 inch brown, and hooked and brought to hand a 20 inch brown with the most fearsome lower hook-jaw i’ve seen on ole salmo, it’s not good trout water in my area of the stream.  upstream about a mile, and for almost 6 miles, it’s a hatchery supported stream and gets a lot of pressure from spin fishers, especially the week after the hatchery trucks come through.  anyway, i took my 7′6" 4/5 weight St.Croix and fished about a mile with a black wooly bugger.  the stream holds a bunch of smallmouth bass and bluegill/redeye/bream(?)- panfish -, and i spent 4 hours disengaging the hook from copious quantities of the panfish and about 10 smallies, with the largest being 11 inches.  in some of the deeper pools, i saw some smallmouth i know were larger than 14 inches.  anyway, a nice day’s fishing within walking distance of the cabin and the comforts of she who must be obeyed. jeff

Response:

Question:

Thanks for the help, guys…. SpEEdo… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – He’s asking 17,500 on the side of it.  It’s a helluva deal with that big tuna tower and all the fishing rigging.  However, I’ve talked to 8 long-time sport fishermen about it and they told me Pacemaker had some I had one of these (1973) for sale two years ago.  It is great for near coastal cruising.. It has a relatively low center of gravity making it very stable.  It isn’t a full V hull as it is very flat in the stern.  This allows it acess to shallower water, but makes it pound more in the steep chop.  The flying bridge is fairly small. but adequate.  The fellow who bought it uses it in the L.I. sound regularly, and loves it.  There was no problem with blisters or delaminations. I think the $17,000 is a little high even rigged for offshore.  I sold the one at my place for $12,000 with two near new engines.  No fishing equiptment though. Boatbasin http://www.boatbasin.com

Response:

<snip However, I’ve talked to 8 long-time sport fishermen about it and they told me Pacemaker had some AWFUL problems with blisters, delaminations and other ugly things that put the company out of business…..yecch.

What years were the eight?  An old-time marine surveyor told me that boats made before the Arab oil embargo of the mid-seventies had few if any problems with blisters.  Only after the embargo hit and oil prices went sky-high did manufacturers start tampering with resin formulations and unknowingly create blister city.  The boat in question is a ‘72 model and may be perfectly blister-free. Bill, W7TI

Response:

He’s asking 17,500 on the side of it.  It’s a helluva deal with that big tuna tower and all the fishing rigging.  However, I’ve talked to 8 long-time sport fishermen about it and they told me Pacemaker had some

I had one of these (1973) for sale two years ago.  It is great for near coastal cruising.. It has a relatively low center of gravity making it very stable.  It isn’t a full V hull as it is very flat in the stern.  This allows it acess to shallower water, but makes it pound more in the steep chop.  The flying bridge is fairly small. but adequate.  The fellow who bought it uses it in the L.I. sound regularly, and loves it.  There was no problem with blisters or delaminations. I think the $17,000 is a little high even rigged for offshore.  I sold the one at my place for $12,000 with two near new engines.  No fishing equiptment though. Boatbasin http://www.boatbasin.com

Response:

There’s one for sale in Charleston I have to walk by every time I go to my bud’s sailboat.  It had a little smoke damage from a fire in a home air conditioner he used but has been completely restored inside. It has radar/sonar/GPS/tv/microwave/Loran/2 alarms/lights/water/well, you get the idea. He’s asking 17,500 on the side of it.  It’s a helluva deal with that big tuna tower and all the fishing rigging.  However, I’ve talked to 8 long-time sport fishermen about it and they told me Pacemaker had some AWFUL problems with blisters, delaminations and other ugly things that put the company out of business…..yecch. Sure is tempting….it’s still floating, the new AC/heat pump is pumping and I see lights inside the stained-glass windows….(c; SpEEdo – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am considering a 30′ Pacemaker – 1972. The owner says the model is Sportfish, but it sure has a small cockpit. It has a fly bridge and lower helm station which behind the step down salon/galley. This open helm area extends quite a way into the cockpit and includes the engine hatches (it has a fighting chair) and the cockpit seems quite short. I wonder if this is more a Cruiser model than a SF and if I’d get a better fishing boat if I looked for a later model. Does anyone have any knowledge of these models? I have looked in the "Sportfishing Boats 28-82′" guide and the oldest Pacemaker they show is a 1973 that has a different layout. The boat is in very good condition with outriggers, 489 hrs on 220/hp chryslers, older electronics (no GPS or radar) – he is asking $19K. Does this sound reasonable?? Thanks!

Response:

I am considering a 30′ Pacemaker – 1972. The owner says the model is Sportfish, but it sure has a small cockpit. It has a fly bridge and lower helm station which behind the step down salon/galley. This open helm area extends quite a way into the cockpit and includes the engine hatches (it has a fighting chair) and the cockpit seems quite short. I wonder if this is more a Cruiser model than a SF and if I’d get a better fishing boat if I looked for a later model. Does anyone have any knowledge of these models? I have looked in the "Sportfishing Boats 28-82′" guide and the oldest Pacemaker they show is a 1973 that has a different layout. The boat is in very good condition with outriggers, 489 hrs on 220/hp chryslers, older electronics (no GPS or radar) – he is asking $19K. Does this sound reasonable?? Thanks!

Response:

I wouldn’t trust the reliability of the hourmeter.  You need both a survey and a mechanic to check out your boat to decide if 19K is a good price. — — Jim Proud, but feeble minded Regal Owner Three can keep a secret, if two of them are dead.

| I am considering a 30′ Pacemaker – 1972. The owner says the model is | Sportfish, but it sure has a small cockpit. It has a fly bridge and lower | helm station which behind the step down salon/galley. This open helm area | extends quite a way into the cockpit and includes the engine hatches (it has | a fighting chair) and the cockpit seems quite short. | | I wonder if this is more a Cruiser model than a SF and if I’d get a better | fishing boat if I looked for a later model. Does anyone have any knowledge of | these models? I have looked in the "Sportfishing Boats 28-82′" guide and the | oldest Pacemaker they show is a 1973 that has a different layout. | | The boat is in very good condition with outriggers, 489 hrs on 220/hp | chryslers, older electronics (no GPS or radar) – he is asking $19K. Does this | sound reasonable?? | | Thanks! |

Response:

Question:

<<  I wasn’t so much scared, though, as hurt. After all I had done for him the damned squirrel never even looked back.  Anyone out there have similar stories they’d like to share?   I think former President Jimmy Carter had something like that happen while fishing too far from Secret Service agents from providing details. William Buchman

Response:

"No good deed goes unpunished."

Response:

Cute story Joe but that’s not being attacked by a squirrel.  Come on down to the Clave and I’ll show you the scars from REALLY being attacked by a squirrel.  Story too long to post here. Wayne To fish is human…to release divine. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone out there have similar stories they’d like to share?

Response:

Wayno, swear ta gawd, I never touched ya. Big Al – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Cute story Joe but that’s not being attacked by a squirrel.  Come on down to the Clave and I’ll show you the scars from REALLY being attacked by a squirrel.  Story too long to post here. Wayne To fish is human…to release divine. Anyone out there have similar stories they’d like to share?

Response:

No Al, not Wayno, that’s the OTHER Wayne! Wayne To fish is human…to release divine. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wayno, swear ta gawd, I never touched ya. Big Al Cute story Joe but that’s not being attacked by a squirrel.  Come on down to the Clave and I’ll show you the scars from REALLY being attacked by a squirrel.  Story too long to post here. Wayne To fish is human…to release divine. Anyone out there have similar stories they’d like to share?

Response:

Cute story Joe but that’s not being attacked by a squirrel.  Come on down to the Clave and I’ll show you the scars from REALLY being attacked by a squirrel.  Story too long to post here. Wayne

is jimmy c. gonna join us? tell him to bring plenty of peanuts and billy beer. –wataugan walt

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Cute story Joe but that’s not being attacked by a squirrel.  Come on down to the Clave and I’ll show you the scars from REALLY being attacked by a squirrel.  Story too long to post here. Wayne is jimmy c. gonna join us? tell him to bring plenty of peanuts and billy beer. –wataugan walt

That was a rabbit that went after old Jimmy. — Charlie…

Response:

doggone this grouse….let me go find my sm, memory is slippin…. –Wataugan Waldo – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Cute story Joe but that’s not being attacked by a squirrel.  Come on down to the Clave and I’ll show you the scars from REALLY being attacked by a squirrel.  Story too long to post here. Wayne is jimmy c. gonna join us? tell him to bring plenty of peanuts and billy beer. –wataugan walt That was a rabbit that went after old Jimmy. — Charlie…

Response:

 Winter is a lousy time for fishing here in New England. there’s something about that slight two-foot film of ice that inhibits the trout and salmon  rising to your exquisitely presented dry fly; perhaps that slight tap on the head as they slam into the solid wall of ice.  If it’s bad for fishing, though, it’s a great time for contemplating fishing trips of the past. One of my all time favorite days on the water ended without a single fish.  It was one of those perfect fall days when the air is dry and crystal clear, not the best weather for catching but perfect for fishing, if you know what I mean. I was supposed to be at work, but the day was too nice and the feeling of freedom I got from playing hooky from work just added to the enjoyment of the day.  About three miles from the dock I saw something swimming in the water. Stopping to check it out, I found a gray squirrel. He was almost a mile from land and the water was cold. the poor thing swam up to my boat and I could hear it’s claws scraping on the aluminum side as the near-frozen animal tried desperately to get out of the water.  Now I enjoy eating a fish now and then but otherwise consider myself a kindly soul so up picked up my landing net and hoisted the half-frozen rodent out of the water. When I laid it on the seat of my boat it was so cold it just layed there.  Being somewhat foolhardy as well as kindly, I took off my coat, an old Vietnam-era Army jacket, built a nest and placed the cold-cold squirrel inside.  I continued on to my favorite fishing hole and proceeded to cast for smallmouth bass. The sun was getting warmer and the squirrel in my coat would, once in a while let out a little sneeze but was otherwise silent.  After two or three hours of casting, I had totally forgotten about my guest, now comfortably asleep in my coat. I put my rod down and turned to start the motor.  As the motor roared to life, I hard a scrambling sound in back of me and turned to see a gray streak come flying from the front seat, onto the middles seat, onto the small of my back and up my back to the top of my head where it dove off into the water and swam the short 10 feet to shore.  Now I know I was at least 10 miles from the dock but when I returned a couple of the guys there swore they heard me scream.  I wasn’t so much scared, though, as hurt. After all I had done for him the damned squirrel never even looked back.  Anyone out there have similar stories they’d like to share?

Response:

Joe Mitko writes:

(good story mostly snipped) As the motor roared to life, I hard a scrambling sound in back of me and turned to see a gray streak come flying from the front seat, onto the middles seat, onto the small of my back and up my back to the top of my head where it dove off into the water and swam the short 10 feet to shore.

Joe:  great story, but you missed out on some great tying material. Mark Faulkner

Response:

Question:

You’re right. Let’s not spend the money that might help rebuild their economy and let’s stay away out of respect for the dead. Jeez. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Are you guys for real? You’re talking about a hurricane that has killed thousands, and you’re worried it may have messed up your proposed fishing trips. — Colin Brown Also interested in response … would like to go there next year … was

Response:

says… Are you guys for real? You’re talking about a hurricane that has killed thousands, and you’re worried it may have messed up your proposed fishing trips. — Colin Brown

Colin, My initial reaction was similar to yours. After further contemplation, I decided that anyone who goes down there to fish is also going to be spending hard currency in an area that could use some right now. That is why I urge those fishermen (and anyone who can) to contact your local charitable organizations and send money/food/clothing now. They *really* do need it. –Wataugan Walt

Response:

I was there last July fishing at Turneffe flats. We were trying for the Grand Slam. I highly recommend the lodge. I will be seeing the owner of the lodge in two weeks. I. like yourself am concerned about the damage and to the well being of the local guides I fished with and their familys. When I find out I’ll let you know.                                                                 Mark Heskett

Response:

You’re right. Let’s not spend the money that might help rebuild their economy and let’s stay away out of respect for the dead. Jeez.

______ It is just a matter of time that American’s, in our own way, will begin turning tragedy into humor.  Out of chaos, we alway cheer the world up or ourselves because the pain is so great, the suffering inexpressiable, and so it goes.  But today, I called the Red Cross and made a donation to Mexico’s cause.  Its the least we can do for now. I think. THIS would be a good time for the Pope to make a visit just to help Mexico who needs him so, now.  The arms of the Catholic Church should enfold this nation and give comfort and spiritual support. Well . . . it sure would be nice to hear from them about now.

Response:

_____ If the Pope will supply 100,000 loaves of bread I will supply the bone fish for him to feed his flock.

Response:

In ______ It is just a matter of time that American’s, in our own way, will begin turning tragedy into humor.  Out of chaos, we alway cheer the world up or ourselves because the pain is so great, the suffering inexpressiable, and so it goes.  But today, I called the Red Cross and made a donation to Mexico’s cause.  Its the least we can do for now. I think. THIS would be a good time for the Pope to make a visit just to help Mexico who needs him so, now.  The arms of the Catholic Church should enfold this nation and give comfort and spiritual support. Well . . . it sure would be nice to hear from them about now.

bzzzzzttt, bzzzzzztttt, scrsssshhhhhhhh Earth to George… HONDURAS, NICARAGUA, & BELIZE. (and some southeastern parts of Mexico) aside from my sarcasm, many thanks for your contribution. They are in need of assistance. The death toll has climbed to over 10,000 with many thousands still unaccounted for. A MAJOR DISASTER. another aside, i know we have our differing opinions, but if you’re ever up here in god’s country, there is an open invite to you to join me and possibly wayno on a stream a’fishin’ for the brookies. –Wataugan Walt

Response:

Hi: Looking to fish Belize next May, but I’m concerned about the damage that Mitch may have done.  I’ve been searching the net for information to guide my trip decision, but haven’t come up with anything. I normally go to Belize River Lodge, but I have the feeling that they may have been washed away (they are right on the river).  I was also considering Blue Horizon.  Anyone have any idea how things fared at these two places and if Mitch’s rath may have screwed up the waters into next year? Thanks. Adam

Hi Adam, I think they were pretty lucky in Belize. I am not really sure about total damage, but heard that El Pescador did OK. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

Response:

_____ If the Pope will supply 100,000 loaves of bread I will supply the bone fish for him to feed his flock.

Response:

Hi.  I don’t know about the condition of the specific lodges you mentioned, but Belize in general suffered little damage from Mitch (when compared to what’s happening in Honduras, Guatemala, El Salvador, Nicaragua). The fishing is great right now, especially in southern Belize.  Lots of snook, especially.  You may be able to get info on your lodges from the ambergriscaye hurricane page.  I can’t remember the URL, but if you go to our Website (http://www.kevinmodera.com) and click on "Ambergris Caye" info at the top of the homepage, you’ll be linked to their hurricane site.  They have lots of information from many locations in Belize.  Our site also includes information on conditions in southern Belize. Generally, we expect the Placencia area to be pretty much back to "normal" (whatever that means for Placencia), in another week or so. BTW, please, anybody that has the time, money or inclination, Central America needs help desperately.  A group of our local guides donated their time and money to buy and deliver food to Honduras a couple of days ago. They just got back last night and could not believe how horrible it really is in northern Honduras.  It’s still so wet that they were unable to light fires to cook the beans and rice for people, no one has anywhere to go, no one has any food.  It’s apparently worse even than it looks on television. — Mary Mary V. Toy                           Kevin Modera Guide Services Professional Guides for Tropical Anglers Placencia, Belize Voice and Fax:  (314) 776-3496 URL:  http://www.kevinmodera.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi: Looking to fish Belize next May, but I’m concerned about the damage that Mitch may have done.  I’ve been searching the net for information to guide my trip decision, but haven’t come up with anything. I normally go to Belize River Lodge, but I have the feeling that they may have been washed away (they are right on the river).  I was also considering Blue Horizon.  Anyone have any idea how things fared at these two places and if Mitch’s rath may have screwed up the waters into next year? Thanks. Adam Hi Adam, I think they were pretty lucky in Belize. I am not really sure about total damage, but heard that El Pescador did OK. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

Response:

Hi: Looking to fish Belize next May, but I’m concerned about the damage that Mitch may have done.  I’ve been searching the net for information to guide my trip decision, but haven’t come up with anything. I normally go to Belize River Lodge, but I have the feeling that they may have been washed away (they are right on the river).  I was also considering Blue Horizon.  Anyone have any idea how things fared at these two places and if Mitch’s rath may have screwed up the waters into next year? Thanks. Adam

Response:

Also interested in response … would like to go there next year … was

Response:

Are you guys for real? You’re talking about a hurricane that has killed thousands, and you’re worried it may have messed up your proposed fishing trips. — Colin Brown – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Also interested in response … would like to go there next year … was

Response:

you moron they’re just asking about damn fishing trips here. take your patsyism elsewhere — Nicholas J. Slodki

:Are you guys for real? : :You’re talking about a hurricane that has killed thousands, and you’re :worried it may have messed up your proposed fishing trips. : : :– :Colin Brown : : : : Also interested in response … would like to go there next year … was : : : :

Response:

Question:

Netscape has a spell check, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Huh? Pardon my ignorance, Far, but just who is this guy and what has he supposedly done? I’m a NH resident, and I’ve never heard of this guy or his organization.< Hi Dave, Well, I will join Farandfine’s bandwagon here.  I too am a New Hampshire resident. Bob Mitchel belongs to the New Hampshire Fly Fishers Association.  The are now a Federation of FLy Fishers group, but it wasn’t always that way.  The are based in Laconia, NH. Since you don’t know about them, let me give you  a one sided point of view. About three years ago, Dick Sturtavent, Bob Mitchell and a few of their cronies decided that the fishing in New Hampshire wasn’t good enoough for them.  They wanted to be assured that when they went out they would be able to fish over LARGE trout. Not in streams mind you, but in ponds.   So they formed the New Hampshire Fly Fishers Accociation, Inc.   But the biggest reason  for forming the group was that the local and state chapters of TU  would not go along with them in trying to get the ponds in the north country stoked to their liking. Once they had the NH Fly Fishers formed, they then formed the Cold Water Coalition, Inc. in an effort to bypass all the criticism and to put up a front of bringing all the TU chapters and the NH Fly Fishers together so they could persue their own agenda.  I don’t know about you, but there seenm to be a lot of Inc.’s popping up here in the fishing comunity, and any group that is for the fly fishers in the state that feels that they have to protect themselves legally from the very people they pretend to be working for is bogus in my book Some of the things that they have accomplised, is to have instituted the Slot Limints for 5 ponds.  Namely, Upper Hallls, Sky, Profile Lake, Cole and Shawtown.  All fish between 12 and 16 inches must now be released and only one fish over 16 inches may be kept, with a two fish limit.  There was little debate over this and little public input.  Secret meetings were held with the Cold Water Coalition and members of the Fish and Game last year, in Portsmouth.  A nice out of the way place that assured them that even if these meetings were made public, not many people would make the drive.   After the Cold Water Coalition met, one public hearing was held at the Fish and Game in Concord, where they said they were going to take the matter under advisment.  Lo and behold, this year, guess what?  The regs are changed. Now, I am an advocate of catch and release, (go ahead Tim, I had to say it) but I think that the states (our) money could be better spent trying to manage a few fisheries for wild trout instead of continually stocking every mud puddle from here to Colebrook.  If you check your fish and game digest, you will see that NH does not have one managed Wild Trout fishery, and only one pure catch and release area.  Vermont on the other hand has 7 wild trout fisheries, and Mass has several C&R areas.  That’s beef number one for many of us. Number two, why wasn’t Whittamore, or some other pond or lake in the southern part of the state choosen?  Why not Stonehouse Pond in Barrington?  There is a simple answer to that one.  The NH Fly Fishers are based in Laconia.  Why travel 2 hours south when you have ponds 30 minutes from you that your buddies in the Fish and Game will stock just the way you want then too. Number three, and this one really makes my blood boil.  In NH if you are going to have a fishing derby or a tounament, you have to get a permit from the town, as well as the fish and game, and it is very regulated.  The NH Fly Fishers on the other hand have found a way around this.  They have "outings"  where 30 or 40 of them show up on a piece of Public water and just take the place over. Sewells Falls in Concord is a great example.  Their annual Atlantic Slamon Outing ruins any chance the rest of us have of fishing there that weekend. Rotational fishing?  Not with these guys.  You are either with them or you don’t fish.  Then there is the pilgrmage to Profile Lake.  Another weekend outing where they just take over an area.  And the Fish and Game just looks the other way.  No, that’s not true, last year, they stocked Profile Lake the Friday prior to the NH Fly FIhsers outing there.  It’s funny that these guys never have an outing on a river for trout.  Hence the drag free float line by Far I assume. It has gotten so out of hand, that the fish surveys, which used to be done by TU are now being done by the NH Fly Fishers at the above listed ponds.  Our local TU Chapters weren’t even contacted about then this year.  This is a lot like the fox guarding the hen house.  The people doing the surveys have a personal interest it their outcome, and the findings will  have to be questioned. There are other areas worth dicussing, but that is the NH Fly Fishers in a bit more than a nut shell, from my point of view.   As you saw in the post by Farandfnie, I am not alone in my criticism of this group. At any rate, tight lines and good fishing… Al Manchester, NH

Response:

Looking for some worthwhile Fly Fishing spots in the Keene NH area.   Rivers , Streams , Fly Fishing only Ponds.  Any Suggestions Appreciated.

Response:

Looking for some worthwhile Fly Fishing spots in the Keene NH area.   Rivers,

Streams , Fly Fishing only Ponds.  Any Suggestions Appreciated. My GOD – Is this the same Bob Mitchell  - Sgt At Arm of the New Hampshire Fly Fishers? I thought you people knew EVERYTHING about fly fishing in New Hampshire?  After all, you knew what was good for all of us when it came to Upper Halls, Sky, Profile and a couple of other ponds here in NH.   Since you have the Fish and Game in your back pocket anyway, why not just go ask them?  What’s the matter, out of cash? No way I would ever tell you about any quality water in New Hampshire.  You morons would just have an "outing" where 30 or 40 of you come on a weekend and screw it up for the rest of us. Then next thing you know it’s on your own personal agenda.  You would write it up in Hawkeye (they dont pay for articles so he isnt that good group) and then every Orvis clad yuppie within 100 miles would be on the stream I told you about. Sorry Bob – go get your float tube and load up on those #10 Pheasant Tails a full sinking line and go troll Profile Lake. Leave the fly fishing to those of us who know how to get a drag free float over good fish. Far

Response:

Looking for some worthwhile Fly Fishing spots in the Keene NH area.   Rivers, Streams , Fly Fishing only Ponds.  Any Suggestions Appreciated. My GOD – Is this the same Bob Mitchell  - Sgt At Arm of the New Hampshire Fly Fishers? I thought you people knew EVERYTHING about fly fishing in New Hampshire?  After all, you knew what was good for all of us when it came to Upper Halls, Sky, Profile and a couple of other ponds here in NH.   Since you have the Fish and Game in your back pocket anyway, why not just go ask them?  What’s the matter, out of cash?

Huh? Pardon my ignorance, Far, but just who is this guy and what has he supposedly done? I’m a NH resident, and I’ve never heard of this guy or his organization. No way I would ever tell you about any quality water in New Hampshire.  You morons would just have an "outing" where 30 or 40 of you come on a weekend and screw it up for the rest of us.

I can’t understand why he’s asking in the first place, since it’s hard to swing a dead trout in the Keene area without hitting some decent water. NO! WAIT! I’m mistaken. *Ahem* There are no trout in NH. Yes, that’s it. None. Mass. has ALL the trout. Woe is us. We are poor, pitiful Cow Hampshirites, without any trout. Not a one. Yep, that’s the ticket. Then next thing you know it’s on your own personal agenda.  You would write it up in Hawkeye (they dont pay for articles so he isnt that good group) and then every Orvis clad yuppie within 100 miles would be on the stream I told you about.

Well, could be, but in my experience any organization large enough to require a sgt. at arms is usually too cumbersome to stalk its own bunghole, much less our non-existent NH trout. Granted, though, a Cherokee hatch is an unsightly nuisance, but probably only temporary. Still, I can’t blame you for not giving away your spots in this increasingly crowded state. I’m sure not giving mine away (not that there are any fish there, mind you). Sorry Bob – go get your float tube and load up on those #10 Pheasant Tails a full sinking line and go troll Profile Lake. Leave the fly fishing to those of us who know how to get a drag free float over good fish.

Ooooo. Ouch. That might be even more painful if there were any "good fish" to catch here in NH, but there aren’t. None. Nope. Zilch. Salvelinus Nonexistus. Salmo Nada. This is all true! Really! Dave

Response:

Huh? Pardon my ignorance, Far, but just who is this guy and what has he

supposedly done? I’m a NH resident, and I’ve never heard of this guy or his organization.< Hi Dave, Well, I will join Farandfine’s bandwagon here.  I too am a New Hampshire resident. Bob Mitchel belongs to the New Hampshire Fly Fishers Association.  The are now a Federation of FLy Fishers group, but it wasn’t always that way.  The are based in Laconia, NH. Since you don’t know about them, let me give you  a one sided point of view. About three years ago, Dick Sturtavent, Bob Mitchell and a few of their cronies decided that the fishing in New Hampshire wasn’t good enoough for them.  They wanted to be assured that when they went out they would be able to fish over LARGE trout. Not in streams mind you, but in ponds.   So they formed the New Hampshire Fly Fishers Accociation, Inc.   But the biggest reason  for forming the group was that the local and state chapters of TU  would not go along with them in trying to get the ponds in the north country stoked to their liking. Once they had the NH Fly Fishers formed, they then formed the Cold Water Coalition, Inc. in an effort to bypass all the criticism and to put up a front of bringing all the TU chapters and the NH Fly Fishers together so they could persue their own agenda.  I don’t know about you, but there seenm to be a lot of Inc.’s popping up here in the fishing comunity, and any group that is for the fly fishers in the state that feels that they have to protect themselves legally from the very people they pretend to be working for is bogus in my book Some of the things that they have accomplised, is to have instituted the Slot Limints for 5 ponds.  Namely, Upper Hallls, Sky, Profile Lake, Cole and Shawtown.  All fish between 12 and 16 inches must now be released and only one fish over 16 inches may be kept, with a two fish limit.  There was little debate over this and little public input.  Secret meetings were held with the Cold Water Coalition and members of the Fish and Game last year, in Portsmouth.  A nice out of the way place that assured them that even if these meetings were made public, not many people would make the drive.   After the Cold Water Coalition met, one public hearing was held at the Fish and Game in Concord, where they said they were going to take the matter under advisment.  Lo and behold, this year, guess what?  The regs are changed. Now, I am an advocate of catch and release, (go ahead Tim, I had to say it) but I think that the states (our) money could be better spent trying to manage a few fisheries for wild trout instead of continually stocking every mud puddle from here to Colebrook.  If you check your fish and game digest, you will see that NH does not have one managed Wild Trout fishery, and only one pure catch and release area.  Vermont on the other hand has 7 wild trout fisheries, and Mass has several C&R areas.  That’s beef number one for many of us. Number two, why wasn’t Whittamore, or some other pond or lake in the southern part of the state choosen?  Why not Stonehouse Pond in Barrington?  There is a simple answer to that one.  The NH Fly Fishers are based in Laconia.  Why travel 2 hours south when you have ponds 30 minutes from you that your buddies in the Fish and Game will stock just the way you want then too. Number three, and this one really makes my blood boil.  In NH if you are going to have a fishing derby or a tounament, you have to get a permit from the town, as well as the fish and game, and it is very regulated.  The NH Fly Fishers on the other hand have found a way around this.  They have "outings"  where 30 or 40 of them show up on a piece of Public water and just take the place over. Sewells Falls in Concord is a great example.  Their annual Atlantic Slamon Outing ruins any chance the rest of us have of fishing there that weekend. Rotational fishing?  Not with these guys.  You are either with them or you don’t fish.  Then there is the pilgrmage to Profile Lake.  Another weekend outing where they just take over an area.  And the Fish and Game just looks the other way.  No, that’s not true, last year, they stocked Profile Lake the Friday prior to the NH Fly FIhsers outing there.  It’s funny that these guys never have an outing on a river for trout.  Hence the drag free float line by Far I assume. It has gotten so out of hand, that the fish surveys, which used to be done by TU are now being done by the NH Fly Fishers at the above listed ponds.  Our local TU Chapters weren’t even contacted about then this year.  This is a lot like the fox guarding the hen house.  The people doing the surveys have a personal interest it their outcome, and the findings will  have to be questioned. There are other areas worth dicussing, but that is the NH Fly Fishers in a bit more than a nut shell, from my point of view.   As you saw in the post by Farandfnie, I am not alone in my criticism of this group. At any rate, tight lines and good fishing… Al Manchester, NH

Response:

Question:

   I fished the upper Arkansas several years ago upstream of Buena Vista. I remember public access was limited but locals directed me to some public water accessed at a bridge just up the highway a few miles from Buena Vista that was fun.  I got a few nice ones and lots of small ones.  Ask around at the shops. -al

Response:

I will be spending a week in the Upper Arkansas river valley Aug 5 – 10. Will be with Wife and three small kids (to small to Fly fish), so at best I’ll have an hour or two a day to fish.  Any advice on places to fish, flys to use and local shops to offer advice? Thanks for the help, Dan

Response:

I will be spending a week in the Upper Arkansas river valley Aug 5 – 10. Will be with Wife and three small kids (to small to Fly fish), so at best I’ll have an hour or two a day to fish.  Any advice on places to fish, flys to use and local shops to offer advice? Thanks for the help, Dan

I went to the Arkansas this weekend, but north of Buena vista on Hwy. 24.  It was too cold and rainy to fish, and I was discouraged by an utter lack of public access to the river.  I believe that the Arkansas near Salida provides good fishing and more public access.  I think all the normal patterns will work in the summer… good luck, — MORGAN P. BROWN                 Colorado School of Mines                 Rice University                 Phone:   (303) 215-9190 URL:     http://timna.mines.edu/~mbrown                http://www.owlnet.rice.edu/~mpbro

Response:

Question:

: Every once in awhile I foul hook a trout. I think it is becasue : they are "bumping" the nymph so when I strike I’m likely to foul : hook it. Exactly.  And it seems an unavoidable side affect of nymphing.   Barbless flies or not, this can cause considerable harm to a fish…have you ever reeled one in by the eyeball…really, let’s face it folkes…nymphing is very, very similar to drifting bait… Tim Walker

Most of my nymphing is done by upstream casting to individual feeding trout. This technique is effective and foul hooks very few fish. Ian Walker

Response:

What you need are some brothers to go fishing with you. Me and my brothers call it "Ass-ing" (refering to foul hooking, sometimes literally in the anus).  When one of us "Asses" a fish the other two jump in with verbal taunting and abuse (ie.. we make yipe-ing sounds like would a puppy if you stepped on its paw- Yipe, Yipe, Yipe!).   Anyway the verbal abuse is so bad that you seem to fish more carefull and "Ass" less fish.  Not sure why, but is seems to work! *note* If you don’t have brothers, drinking buddies seem to do.

Response:

[deleted] : Me and my brothers call it "Ass-ing" (refering to foul hooking, sometimes : literally in the anus).  When one of us "Asses" a fish the other two jump : in with verbal taunting and abuse (ie.. we make yipe-ing sounds like would : a puppy if you stepped on its paw- Yipe, Yipe, Yipe!).   Ahh yes…the gentle sport…..

Response:

This foul hooking thread is interesting. I am not a biologist, but I suspect that if everyone fished barbless flies, it wouldn’t be such a big deal. Not sure, but thats what I suspect. Dale Owens

You may not be a biologist, but you’re right on the money.  A recent review of many scientific studies, published in peer reviewed journals compiled data on thousands of fish.  They showed a lower mortality of fish caught on barbles hooks.  The reference has been posted to the group several times, and I have it at my home office if you email me.  Bottom line is, we can’t help the occasional foul hookup, nor the hookup with a fish outside the legal size limit, but we can assure that such fish have a better chance of survival after we release them.  One of the best ways to improve fish survival is to use barbles hooks.  Other good practices are to use single point hooks, use artificial lures only (eg flies), keep the fish in the water, and land your fish quickly.  Good luck. . Lenny Bloksberg . .

Response:

This foul hooking thread is interesting. I am not a biologist, but I suspect that if everyone fished barbless flies, it wouldn’t be such a big deal. Not sure, but thats what I suspect. Dale Owens You may not be a biologist, but you’re right on the money.  A recent review of many scientific studies, published in peer

Foulhooking mainly occurs on bright sunny days when a trout’s eyesight is diminished, they simply miss the fly, you strike … and you see the results of the contortions of a fish when in the act of taking a live insect of various phase…although I doubt that the barb has anything to do with the subject, they are terrific to use!!! they result in a pretty *clean* release without handling the fish at all, just a twist, and they’re off. Consultant_of_the_LDR steve d.

Response:

This past weekend, while flyfishing (#14 caddis) my friend and I each foul hooked a trout. I was using a dropper, tied with a 12" tippet to the shank of the dry, but I saw the ‘bow go for the dry and that’s the hook that caught him, on the anal fin. It happens.

Response:

This past weekend, while flyfishing (#14 caddis) my friend and I each foul hooked a trout. I was using a dropper, tied with a 12" tippet to the shank of the dry, but I saw the ‘bow go for the dry and that’s the hook that caught him, on the anal fin. It happens.

Yes, it happens.  But it shouldn’t!   Using adropper setup is just inviting foul hooking and abusing the trout.  If you are planning on releasing the fish you catch, don’t use a dropper setup.                                                 Dallas, TX                                               Ennis, MT

Response:

Does anybody else have persistent problems foulhooking trout while nymphing? I’ve never heard this discussed, but I seem to hook more than my share. I’ve been nymph fishing for about 15 years, and the problem is not getting any better! Lyndon Lampert

Response:

I don’t have any problems with it because I have no idea what it is. Excuse the question of a beginner, but what is foulhooking? Brew on! Bill Rucker Email- Work                                            Home

Response:

I don’t have any problems with it because I have no idea what it is. Excuse the question of a beginner, but what is foulhooking?

Snagging.  Hooking a fish anywhere other than in the mouth, and/or for a reason other than that the fish attempted to eat the lure/fly. -tgades

Response:

: Does anybody else have persistent problems foulhooking trout while : nymphing? I’ve never heard this discussed, but I seem to hook more than : my share. I’ve been nymph fishing for about 15 years, and the problem is : not getting any better! It does happen quite a bit while nymphing, even in streams that aren’t literally packed with trout.  It happens to me just as often dry fly fishing though, perhaps even more often.  Using barbless hooks can minimize the damage and you can LDR the fish once you see he’s foul hooked.

Response:

Does anybody else have persistent problems foulhooking trout while nymphing? I’ve never heard this discussed, but I seem to hook more than my share. I’ve been nymph fishing for about 15 years, and the problem is not getting any better! Lyndon Lampert

I haven’t be fishing as long as you, but I have also has that problem (only once but for me that is enough to be a problem) I would like to known what can be done to prevent this from happening.                                                 Brian —

Response:

Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Does anybody else have persistent problems foulhooking trout while nymphing? I’ve never heard this discussed, but I seem to hook more than my share. I’ve been nymph fishing for about 15 years, and the problem is not getting any better! I have had the same problem,  What I think happens, although I have not proven it, is that a fish rubs agains the leader.  Enthusiastic "setting" of the hook snags either that fish or one near by.  After all, except for scale, this exactly the way you would snag fish on purpose.

Response:

This foul hooking thread is interesting. I am not a biologist, but I suspect that if everyone fished barbless flies, it wouldn’t be such a big deal. Not sure, but thats what I suspect. Dale Owens

Response:

Every once in awhile I foul hook a trout. I think it is becasue they are "bumping" the nymph so when I strike I’m likely to foul hook it. Michael

Response:

: Every once in awhile I foul hook a trout. I think it is becasue : they are "bumping" the nymph so when I strike I’m likely to foul : hook it. Exactly.  And it seems an unavoidable side affect of nymphing.   Barbless flies or not, this can cause considerable harm to a fish…have you ever reeled one in by the eyeball…really, let’s face it folkes…nymphing is very, very similar to drifting bait… Tim Walker

Response:

let’s face it folkes…nymphing is very, very similar to drifting bait…

I don’t buy that.  Having done both types of fishing, I find them quite different.  Fish swallow bait.  It is almost impossible to remove the hook from such a fish and have it live. Also, fish will strike a bait numerous times even after it has been yanked from their mouth in an unsuccessful hook set attempt.  Not so with nymphs. In fact, this is why the nymph fisherman, and not the bait fisherman, suffers foul hooking: because he is more sensitive to any movement on the end of his line. The only similarity I see between nymphing and drifting bait, is the drag-free presentation. — -Wayne Trzyna

Response:

Does anybody else have persistent problems foulhooking trout while nymphing? I’ve never heard this discussed, but I seem to hook more than my share. I’ve been nymph fishing for about 15 years, and the problem is not getting any better!

Often, lots of foul hooks when nymphing means you’re setting the hook too slowly, i.e. you strike too late. Here’s the sequence of events.  The fish sucks in the nymph, decides it’s not food, and spits it out (this happens *very* quickly; that’s why you have to be quick on the trigger when nymphing).  You detect the strike a bit late, and set the hook after the nymph is already out of the fish’s mouth.  The fly, though, is still near the fish, and the set whips the fly and the line up past the fish, and the hook snags the fish in the belly, a fin, etc. If you don’t already use strike indicators, try them.  They can help alert you to the take that fraction of a second sooner you need to get a fair hook. Don’t wait for only the obvious takes.  Any change in your indicator or leader — a slight hesitation, a ring, a bit of drag — is possibly a take; strike early and often. Another possibility is you’re fishing at the wrong depth:  your flies are right on the bottom, but the fish are higher up; your line brushes a fish and you think it’s a strike, and again the line whips past the fish and the fly snags it.  This seems much less likely to me, though, since fish usually hold close to the bottom of the stream, because that’s where the current is least and because that’s where most of the aquatic insects live.  This may be more of an issue when nymphing in lakes or large, quiet pools. — Hewlett Packard Co.         Fort Collins, Colorado       "Think!  It ain’t illegal yet."  – George Clinton

Response:

: let’s face it folkes…nymphing is very, very similar to : drifting bait… : I don’t buy that.  Having done both types of fishing, I find them quite : different.  Fish swallow bait.  It is almost impossible to remove : the hook from such a fish and have it live. I refer only to the mechanics of the drift… Tim Walker

Response:

: let’s face it folkes…nymphing is very, very similar to : drifting bait… : I don’t buy that.  Having done both types of fishing, I find them quite : different.  Fish swallow bait.  It is almost impossible to remove : the hook from such a fish and have it live. I refer only to the mechanics of the drift…

But we were discussing snagging of fish.  This happens routinely when nymphing.  This happens damn-neared never when drifting bait, since hook is mostly shrouded.  I have never seen a bait fisher snag a fish on a river, and I’d suspect it’s fairly rare.  I have seen a drift-rig person snag many fish – but they were using heavy weight and a yarn fly, and no bait. The drift is similar, but the snagging rate is not.  That is what we are discussing. -tgades -tgades

Response:

let’s face it folkes…nymphing is very, very similar to drifting bait… I don’t buy that.  Having done both types of fishing, I find them quite different.  Fish swallow bait.  It is almost impossible to remove the hook from such a fish and have it live.

Jeez… don’t you recognize a *troll* when you see one? (Tim, don’t bother to tell me if you’re not kidding.) — Hewlett Packard Co.         Fort Collins, Colorado       "Think!  It ain’t illegal yet."  – George Clinton

Response:

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (Skip Summer) writes: Any ideas on a STABLE boat I can fly fish out of.  I fish moving water, but no white water.  I have heard of a Poke-Boat(sp).  I do not monitor this forum, so E-Mail would be appreciated.  Thanks. Skip Summer I’ve used my Walden Paddler to salt water fly fish from.  Not bad stablity but you lose some distance in your cast being so close to the water (at least I, a neophyte fly-fisherman do).  I’m just worried about what’ll happen if and when I hook into a legal stripped bass (36 inches) or a big bluefish. SRL

One of the most popular boats used by local trout fishermen (in         N. Atlanta) is the "Gheenoe". The name is stranger than the boat,   which can best be described as a flat bottom canoe. I have a 12ft               version of this square sterned boat and I can tell you it is amazing stable. I can stand with both feet toes against the gunnel and not flip it. (I won’t mention what led me to this discovery). The boat is made in Winder, Georgia. It is made of fiberglass and is very well built.     I wouldn’t hesitate to fly fish from it, though the draft is rather shallow (it must be designed for river/shoal fishing) and a large boat wake might make for some exciting times. thom moorer the views expressed above are my own and do not reflect those of my employer.

Response:

: : (Skip Summer) writes: : Any ideas on a STABLE boat I can fly fish out of.  I fish moving water, I have a 12 1/2 foot Avon inflatable which I use on local lakes and also use down in the Gulf.  I don’t worry about boat wakes on the local lakes, and I haven’t had any problems in the Gulf.  Of course, I only go out on decent days.  However, those 60 footers can throwquite a wake.  The boat is incredibly stable and is easy to store.  Inflatables are tough to row, but I have a 9.9 outboard on mine.  If looking for an inflatable, don’t try the cheapies- it ain’t worth your life.  If anyone out there is interested in talking about inflatables for fishing either post to this thread or E-mail me. Pete

Response:

Any ideas on a STABLE boat I can fly fish out of.  I fish moving water, but no white water.  I have heard of a Poke-Boat(sp).  I do not monitor this forum, so E-Mail would be appreciated.  Thanks. Skip Summer

Response:

Any ideas on a STABLE boat I can fly fish out of.  I fish moving water, but no white water.  I have heard of a Poke-Boat(sp).  I do not monitor this forum, so E-Mail would be appreciated.  Thanks. Skip Summer I fly fish out of my touring kayak – works good, though I have to cast

directly where my bow is pointing. I think probably the best boat for the purpose would be a nice canoe, light weight, easy to paddle any distance, and stable enough to cast any direction without loss of stability. Rent or borrow one of the nice kevlar canoes and try it out, I think you’ll like it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

(Skip Summer) writes: Any ideas on a STABLE boat I can fly fish out of.  I fish moving water, but no white water.  I have heard of a Poke-Boat(sp).  I do not monitor this forum, so E-Mail would be appreciated.  Thanks. Skip Summer

I’ve used my Walden Paddler to salt water fly fish from.  Not bad stablity but you lose some distance in your cast being so close to the water (at least I, a neophyte fly-fisherman do).  I’m just worried about what’ll happen if and when I hook into a legal stripped bass (36 inches) or a big bluefish. SRL Stephen R. Lasky, Ph.D.       Brown University/Roger Williams Medical Center A man said to the Universe: "Sir, I exist!" "However," replied the Universe, "the fact has not created in me a sense of obligation."       — Stephen Crane

Response: