Question:

The biggest news is no news.   Expected ROFF population is presently four, with at least one maybe.   There’s still one bed available Thurs-Sat & one Fri-Sat.   Friday night is still arbitrarily selected as the BS/drinking/cigar/tying get-together at Malinda’s in Altmar.   Sorry, no raffle. I’m planning to have an FRS radio on me when I’m not at Malinda’s, so if you’re driving up or you’re near the river, try shouting for me on FRS ch.9 if you have one yourself.   Friday, I’m likely to be around the FFO stretch at Altmar or down at the Trestle Pool; but it’s way too soon to say. I’m getting together w/ fishing buddy on Thursday for lunch to compare fly boxes in time to fill perceived shortages.   If (big IF) I can get my shit together, I want to photograph one of every fly we have between us & post the photos on the website.   http://home.att.net/~fleischman/SalmonRiver.htm My present fly inventory includes: chenille egg patterns (various colors) on #10’s sparkle chenille eggs (various colors) on #8 3906 Purple Flash nymph version on 3906 #8  (awesome last year) Altmar Sunrise, #8 Comets, pink & orange on 3906B, #8 Lazer eggs (orange, pink, chartr.) A comet variety I’ve been messing with but looks great.   It’s an unweighted comet on a 3906 w/ short marabou tail, oval tinsel body, bucktail wing (w/ a few strands of krystal flash), & collar hackle.   I’ve tied ‘em in purple, pink, & chartreuse so far & I’m expecting great things (gotta do some orange, but don’t have the bucktail).   If they work & it hasn’t been done before, I’ll give it a name; but it’s too similar to a comet to be anything but a variety thereof. I think I’m forgetting something.   I’ll have to get my fly box out & see what else is in there.  I have heard at least one early report that black wooly buggers were slayin’ ‘em.   Is there any fish that doesn’t work for? A reminder of the dates in case anyone’s interested: October 17-20, Altmar, NY Joe F.

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Expected ROFF population is presently four, with at least one maybe.

Upgrade that ‘maybe’ to ‘probable’.

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Question:

If one hand is clapping, what is the other hand doing to generate the applause?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Like most things in life, as soon as you understand it, it changes. Everything is temporary. Grasshopper, you must understand the sound of one hand clapping . . .

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You don’t want to know about Opie’s sex life.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If one hand is clapping, what is the other hand doing to generate the applause?

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snip Well said Grasshopper. Dave

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I’m generally frightened and confused by ROFF and was wondering how long it takes to understand the personalities that frequent this group? After all, I’m just a poor caveman software guy.

Why would you want to understand it, and why do you hate America? Tim

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I’m generally frightened and confused by ROFF and was wondering how long it takes to understand the personalities that frequent this group? After all, I’m just a poor caveman software guy.

It has been asked, "How should those who enter The path apply their minds?" All things are originally uncreated And presently undying. Just let your mind be free; You don’t have to restrain it. See directly and hear directly; Come directly and go directly. When you must go, then go; When you must stay, then stay. – Niu-t’ou Hui-chung (683-769)

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I believe that the current minimum length of time required, is from the DEC flyfishing list days to present.  Anything shorter is will result in a less than complete understanding.  One large short cut that has been found to be effective in shortening this is, to killfile any and all posts by muskie and He Who Must Not Be Named (GG,Bamboorods  and his various incarnations). I’m generally frightened and confused by ROFF and was wondering how long it takes to understand the personalities that frequent this group? After all, I’m just a poor caveman software guy. — remove all x’s for reply email. To worry is folly so let us be jolly.

– Chris Richer chrisratnostormspamdotca

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I’m generally frightened and confused by ROFF and was wondering how long it takes to understand the personalities that frequent this group? After all, I’m just a poor caveman software guy.

Who knows?   Best to ignore the perceived personalities, and just read the posts, or not, depending on your current inclination. It is rare to understand anyone, much less an electronic projection of someone, it is easier to simply accept some things. TL MC

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If you ever think you have figured this place out, or have a grip on the relative personas, you should be very concerned about your own mental state. jh

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I’m generally frightened and confused by ROFF and was wondering how long it takes to understand the personalities that frequent this group?   After all, I’m just a poor caveman software guy.

If you ever do understand this place, you will become bored, and wander off. — Charles Davis    K4SWB <I’m The NRA

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I’m generally frightened and confused by ROFF and was wondering how long it takes to understand the personalities that frequent this group? After all, I’m just a poor caveman software guy.

Nope, Saturday Night Live characters don’t make it.  Try Monty Python or Firesign Theatre references next time.

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I’m generally frightened and confused by ROFF and was wondering how long it takes to understand the personalities that frequent this group?   After all, I’m just a poor caveman software guy.

About 2 seconds…well, if you mean understanding that, like life its ownself, there are quite a mix of people and personalities, and not all are going to act, write, think, or otherwise do what another might wish or expect…of course, if you mean understand completely each and every post and reply….BWAHAHAHAHA…. HTH, R …who would suggest a firm understanding of the existence of, and a passing familiarity with, Lewis Carroll, HST, Oscar Wilde, Dr. Seuss, satirical comedy, with a special nod to that of America, Canada, and the UK, as well as the works of Gierach, Hill, McManus, Jenkins, and too-long a list of fishing writers, whilst not forgetting Ken Kesey and Donald Segretti…no, it won’t allow for understanding, but it’d help…hey, who says a potatoe is a terrible thing to mind?  Wait a minute…that doesn’t sound quite right…oh, well…please always remember, and don’t ever forget, because I’ll only say this once: HOBGOBLINS!  GREAT, WRITHING, SEETHING HOBGOBLINS!…and they’ve gotten their drunken paws, such as they are, on the controls…

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I’m generally frightened and confused by ROFF and was wondering how long it takes to understand the personalities that frequent this group? After all, I’m just a poor caveman software guy.

Should take about four to six hours.  Any more than that, you got a real problem.  How ya doin’ so far? Wolfgang

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m generally frightened and confused by ROFF and was wondering how long it takes to understand the personalities that frequent this group? After all, I’m just a poor caveman software guy. About 2 seconds…well, if you mean understanding that, like life its ownself, there are quite a mix of people and personalities, and not all are going to act, write, think, or otherwise do what another might wish or expect…of course, if you mean understand completely each and every post and reply….BWAHAHAHAHA…. HTH, R …who would suggest a firm understanding of the existence of, and a passing familiarity with, Lewis Carroll, HST, Oscar Wilde, Dr. Seuss, satirical comedy, with a special nod to that of America, Canada, and the UK, as well as the works of Gierach, Hill, McManus, Jenkins, and too-long a list of fishing writers, whilst not forgetting Ken Kesey and Donald Segretti…no, it won’t allow for understanding, but it’d help…hey, who says a potatoe is a terrible thing to mind?  Wait a minute…that doesn’t sound quite right…oh, well…please always remember, and don’t ever forget, because I’ll only say this once: HOBGOBLINS!  GREAT, WRITHING, SEETHING HOBGOBLINS!…and they’ve gotten their drunken paws, such as they are, on the controls…

Uhh . . .I was gunna come out of lurking . . . . crap . . . couldn’t get past the "potatoe".  . . . geesh! . . . back to the text books . . . I guess . . . or  . . . somethin’. DaveMohnsen Denver

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I’m generally frightened and confused by ROFF and was wondering how long it takes to understand the personalities that frequent this group? After all, I’m just a poor caveman software guy.

That’s just it CaveXman.  Don’t try to figure out anything.  Everyone just leaves it to Darwin.  Now, figure that one out. George Gehrke "the gent with keyboard button cuff links"

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I’m generally frightened and confused by ROFF and was wondering how long it takes to understand the personalities that frequent this group? After all, I’m just a poor caveman software guy. That’s just it CaveXman.  Don’t try to figure out anything.  Everyone just leaves it to Darwin.  Now, figure that one out.

Darwin?  Isn’t he the guy inside the fish sign on cars? — remove all x and y’s for reply email. To worry is folly so let us be jolly.

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Like most things in life, as soon as you understand it, it changes. Everything is temporary.

Grasshopper, you must understand the sound of one hand clapping . . .

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Like most things in life, as soon as you understand it, it changes. Everything is temporary. Grasshopper, you must understand the sound of one hand clapping . . .

…clapping you upside the head, as you get bitch-slapped by somebody who took umbrage at something you posted… Kevin

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Doh!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Like most things in life, as soon as you understand it, it changes. Everything is temporary. Grasshopper, you must understand the sound of one hand clapping . . . …clapping you upside the head, as you get bitch-slapped by somebody who took umbrage at something you posted… Kevin

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Like most things in life, as soon as you understand it, it changes. Everything is temporary. Grasshopper, you must understand the sound of one hand clapping . . . …clapping you upside the head, as you get bitch-slapped by somebody who took umbrage at something you posted…

Shut up you pompous, hypocritical sissy. p.s. Do I know you?

Response:

I believe that the current minimum length of time required, is from the DEC flyfishing list days to present.  Anything shorter is will result in a less than complete understanding.  One large short cut that has been found to be effective in shortening this is, to killfile any and all posts by muskie and He Who Must Not Be Named (GG,Bamboorods  and his various incarnations).

Chris you were a DEC Flyfishing notes guy? Don’t remember you… Flyfish AKA Dave the ordealmaster

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Like most things in life, as soon as you understand it, it changes. Everything is temporary.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m generally frightened and confused by ROFF and was wondering how long it takes to understand the personalities that frequent this group? After all, I’m just a poor caveman software guy. About 2 seconds…well, if you mean understanding that, like life its ownself, there are quite a mix of people and personalities, and not all are going to act, write, think, or otherwise do what another might wish or expect…of course, if you mean understand completely each and every post and reply….BWAHAHAHAHA…. HTH, R …who would suggest a firm understanding of the existence of, and a passing familiarity with, Lewis Carroll, HST, Oscar Wilde, Dr. Seuss, satirical comedy, with a special nod to that of America, Canada, and the UK, as well as the works of Gierach, Hill, McManus, Jenkins, and too-long a list of fishing writers, whilst not forgetting Ken Kesey and Donald Segretti…no, it won’t allow for understanding, but it’d help…hey, who says a potatoe is a terrible thing to mind?  Wait a minute…that doesn’t sound quite right…oh, well…please always remember, and don’t ever forget, because I’ll only say this once: HOBGOBLINS!  GREAT, WRITHING, SEETHING HOBGOBLINS!…and they’ve gotten their drunken paws, such as they are, on the controls… Uhh . . .I was gunna come out of lurking . . . . crap . . . couldn’t get past the "potatoe".  . . . geesh! . . . back to the text books . . . I guess . . . or  . . . somethin’. DaveMohnsen Denver

Hey, a polite newcomer…see, you never know what’s gonna happen next…welcome aboard, and here’s an explanation…it’s really a really obscure reference to some stuff Dan Quayle said/did…remember the "potatoe" and "a waste is terrible thing to mind" stuff?   Well, it was my decidedly indirect way of implying that a fair amount of both substantive and trivial off-topic knowledge is helpful, if one wishes to engage in that aspect of ROFF, such as the political, er, discussions/riots.   As to the rest, it’s simply an-out-of-the-norm way of saying "hey, ROFF can be a strange place at times, and often as not, NOBODY understands everything," with some TV show catch phrases tossed in (see above).  Also remember (or learn) that ROFF, as a whole, almost never completely agrees on what’s funny, not funny, (in)appropriate, sick, SPAM, or much of anything else save two, or maybe even just one: we all seem to have a love of (fly) fishing (although what exactly defines "fly fishing" is often a source of disagreement, so maybe even that doesn’t even count), and on some level, like reading ROFF… TC, R

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I’m generally frightened and confused by ROFF and was wondering how long it takes to understand the personalities that frequent this group?   After all, I’m just a poor caveman software guy. — remove all x’s for reply email. To worry is folly so let us be jolly.

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Question:

i’m going to win this years entry for , fruit cake of the year , *BUT* she filled out my disability form , looks like i’ll have all of next year off . Are you ok with that? I always got the impression that you enjoyed your work and that it helped you.

it doesn’t mean i can’t work , i just means i don’t have to .

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i’m going to win this years entry for , fruit cake of the year , *BUT* she filled out my disability form , looks like i’ll have all of next year off .

Are you ok with that? I always got the impression that you enjoyed your work and that it helped you.

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i’m going to win this years entry for , fruit cake of the year , *BUT* she filled out my disability form , looks like i’ll have all of next year off .

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x-no-archive: yes i’m going to win this years entry for , fruit cake of the year , *BUT* she filled out my disability form , looks like i’ll have all of next year off . Are you serious? What did she say about the pills?

yes i’m seroius , she gave me the busperone or whatever it’s called , and i was too afraid to ask for the lorazapam , i’ll wait and trick my physician into those .

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why would that be unfortunate for me ? besides , you’ve only got shakey nuts . – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hm, i just checked and unfortunately for you, I also have nuts i’ve already got you beat , i’ve got nuts . ive got 6 months off, and i think im in contention for fruitcake of the year too lets have a playoff i’m going to win this years entry for , fruit cake of the year , *BUT* she filled out my disability form , looks like i’ll have all of next year off .

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Hm, i just checked and unfortunately for you, I also have nuts

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i’ve already got you beat , i’ve got nuts . ive got 6 months off, and i think im in contention for fruitcake of the year too lets have a playoff i’m going to win this years entry for , fruit cake of the year , *BUT* she filled out my disability form , looks like i’ll have all of next year off .

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i’ve already got you beat , i’ve got nuts . – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ive got 6 months off, and i think im in contention for fruitcake of the year too lets have a playoff i’m going to win this years entry for , fruit cake of the year , *BUT* she filled out my disability form , looks like i’ll have all of next year off .

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ive got 6 months off, and i think im in contention for fruitcake of the year too lets have a playoff

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i’m going to win this years entry for , fruit cake of the year , *BUT* she filled out my disability form , looks like i’ll have all of next year off .

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it doesn’t mean i can’t work , i just means i don’t have to . I see, so what will you do? I was on buspar at one point a few years ago. Do you find it helps?

i’ll work when i feel like it , go back to college for some more addiction studies , part time . get alot of neglected work done around the ponderosa , by then it should be summer , and i’ll spend my days , lasily fly fishing down on the sakunka river , i’ll show you a picture of the river if you like .

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it doesn’t mean i can’t work , i just means i don’t have to .

I see, so what will you do? I was on buspar at one point a few years ago. Do you find it helps?

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Question:

Ouch, time for bed.   I forgot to say that the C&R does help increase numbers of fish.  I also agree with the concept that too many = bad and some should be taken out. When my wife wants to eat fish I will keep a few if I am fishing in a spot that I know will not miss them.  I have fished certain streams, lakes and rivers that cannot afford to miss them so I C&R. I think 100% of either side is a little extreme. Now I can get some sleep.  Thanks for your patience. Warren (Ain’t life in the gray area GREAT?!?!)

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Warren writes: I think 100% of either side is a little extreme.

..my point, exactly. Blaming one side or the other for overall complex ecological issues merely divides what should be a common interest group.                           Tom Littleton

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Howdy gang, Sorry to vent but I don’t know where else to scream. I went to my favorite mid summer fishing hole.  This is a southern cal river that is mostly just some deep ponds during the summer months with some sunfish and smallmouth bass.  On Sunday I went to my favorite pond to cast flies to my "friends" (a small group of 2lb smallmouth) and to my horrors, they were all gone.  Some catchnkill moron had come through and taken those bass.  Ya know, they could provide great fun all summer and fall to fly fishers if some loon didn’t kill them.  Why is it people still do this? They probably took em home, cooked one, nearly puked on the result, and threw the rest in the trash.  Its a shame. -John

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Some catchnkill moron had come through and taken those bass.  Ya know, they could provide great fun all summer and fall to fly fishers if some loon didn’t kill them.  Why is it people still do this? They probably took em home, cooked one, nearly puked on the result, and threw the rest in the trash.  Its a shame. -John

Did you see the fish removed from the pond??? Isn’t it even remotely possible that either some other factor caused your lack of success???  I primarily fish C&R, but I don’t feel it is right to label a person as a moron because he keeps a few fish to eat. The "meat fisherman" or "poacher" cleaning out a hot spot is the most cammon excuse for a lack of success where I live, and I guess where you live too. George Adams – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Personally, if your keeping fish from a river, I would say 85 is a bit high…..   Not to be confused with lakes and sustainable populations, and highly prolific species. With the numbers of fisherpersons on todays rivers…..I just don’t feel the math supports even keeping a few. fishermen ‘raise fish’ fisheaters buy fish fishkillers kill fish

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Yea, what George and Jonathan said.. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Howdy gang, Sorry to vent but I don’t know where else to scream. I went to my favorite mid summer fishing hole.  This is a southern cal river that is mostly just some deep ponds during the summer months with some sunfish and smallmouth bass.  On Sunday I went to my favorite pond to cast flies to my "friends" (a small group of 2lb smallmouth) and to my horrors, they were all gone.  Some catchnkill moron had come through and taken those bass.  Ya know, they could provide great fun all summer and fall to fly fishers if some loon didn’t kill them.  Why is it people still do this? They probably took em home, cooked one, nearly puked on the result, and threw the rest in the trash.  Its a shame. -John

– Particle Salad/ Noom Room Studio http://home.earthlink.net/~psalad

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Your letter is a prime example of a holier than thou catch and release attitude. Healthy fisheries survive angling. Stressed fisheries do less well. Heal your streams,limit your angling and encourage others to do likewise. Then, you may see better conditions, and appreciate the outdoors and angling for what it can offer.                            Tom Littleton

Blah blah blah (not being rude).  Catch and release is a viable option!  Just recently their was an article in the paper about how there were too many fish in the Big Hole because too many people practiced catch and release.  Fish and Wildlife was worried with the heat that too many fish would die which happened a while back. There are several other examples of how catch and release can improve the quality of fishing.  Albeit it is not a 100% solution, but sometimes every little bit helps. I keep a fish or two every year so I am not 100% C&R, but do see a lot of value in it. Warren

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John Lacell writes :                                   On Sunday I went to my favorite pond to cast flies to my "friends" (a small group of 2lb smallmouth) and to my horrors, they were all gone

One can only wonder if the friendship were mutual. Ya know, they could provide great fun all summer and fall to fly fishers if some loon didn’t kill them.  

No, they eventually would have been stressed to death with enough hooking and habitat invasion. Plus, how do you know that they were killed by angling as you infer. Highly unlikely it is that all of them would be caught. Your letter is a prime example of a holier than thou catch and release attitude. Healthy fisheries survive angling. Stressed fisheries do less well. Heal your streams,limit your angling and encourage others to do likewise. Then, you may see better conditions, and appreciate the outdoors and angling for what it can offer.                             Tom Littleton

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Question:

Dear Steve, I read your inquiry regarding the CMR-Reel and I’m sure you’ll be very pleased with it, should you decide to purchase one. You can get all the technical information about all Marryat products including the CMR reel on the Web page at: www.marryat.com Regards, Roger Ritter, Marryat staff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When fly fishing for trout in Sweden, I saw someone fishing with the new Marryat CMR reel made in Switzerland. This guy was extremly pleased with its performance. Before buying one, I would like to hear how others feel about this new product. Steve Turner

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When fly fishing for trout in Sweden, I saw someone fishing with the new Marryat CMR reel made in Switzerland. This guy was extremly pleased with its performance. Before buying one, I would like to hear how others feel about this new product. Steve Turner

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Question:

I am going to camp with a small family group in Colorado just after the 4th of July for about 4-5 days and am excited about trying my hand at fly fishing.  My brother and I have backpacked in the Wiminuche Wilderness area with our father years ago and caught a few and are ready to do it right (with flies).   Any suggestions on what type flies to bring along (in general) and any information on the Cojenos or Rio Grande Rivers would be much appreciated.  We are going to camp adjacent to the Cojenos River at a place called Mogote.  We kind of expect to ask the local area people for some advice but anything we might find out before we leave would be a big plus in the planning. Thanks in Advance. Post replies in this group or e-mail (remove "no_spam" to do so). Michael Faber

Response:

Try a bunch og attractors like Wulffs(Royal, Ausable), Humpys,H&Ls,Stimulators. Check with local fly shops for flys and stream conditions. Pick up copy of Flyfishing Sourthern Colorado by John Flick, excellent reference. Good luck.

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Question:

<<A number of well-written soliloquies.  Could you not excise the few items that belong in a separate category, due to the unfortunate occurences of offennsive language?    Those gutter language quotes could have easily been excised. In fact, it took effort to include them.    They weren’t excluded and their presence show us something of the internal contradictions within Cubic Dog. -Ray

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Like I said, I like it.  Shows you something about the internal contradiction in the Moth. Those gutter language quotes could have easily been excised. In fact, it took effort to include them   They weren’t excluded and their presence show us something of the internal contradictions within Cubic Dog.

- Mothra  (aka Kathy Streletzky)    "Whan that Aprill with his shoures soote                                   The droughte of March hath perced to the roote, . . . Thanne longen folk to goon on pilgrimages."  - Geoffrey Chaucer

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<<A number of well-written soliloquies.  Could you not excise the few items that belong in a separate category, due to the unfortunate occurences of offennsive language?    Those gutter language quotes could have easily been excised. In fact, it took effort to include them.    They weren’t excluded and their presence show us something of the internal contradictions within Cubic Dog. -Ray

Well, this may have something to it, Then again, I think their presence also may intend to show something of the *external* contratictions and conflicts within the sport, in fact, I think that was the point. chipper

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I find your post(and Ray’s) much more offensive than the original poetry that was originally posted. Too bad the both of you are so uptight so as not to see the real meanings behind those words.                    shallow is the depth of some souls                    the hull is inevitibly worn thin                    from years of misuse                                                                       William Davis

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<<I find your post(and Ray’s) much more offensive than the original poetry that was originally posted. Too bad the both of you are so uptight so as not to see the real meanings behind those words.    theknuckle   Badbilly – how many handles do you have in this newsgroup? -Ray

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Badbilly – how many handles do you have in this newsgroup?

Evidently one for each of his personalities:-) I like theKnuckle the best!  How bout you? – Mothra  (aka Kathy Streletzky)    "Whan that Aprill with his shoures soote                                   The droughte of March hath perced to the roote, . . . Thanne longen folk to goon on pilgrimages."  - Geoffrey Chaucer

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The cold monk burns the image of the buddah, reads about the sacred cows and murmors — oh shit it sure is cold.

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Well, little moth girl, "the knuckle" is a type of motor that was made by harley-davidson motorcycles from 1932 to 1947. It is a highly coveted motorcycle. I do have multiple personalities, unlike a lot of people on r.p.b. Work…paddle….work…paddle. I know…some of you are saying, "well, what else is there to do?" The answer is…Plenty! I many past times that I enjoy. From skateboarding, flyfishing, playing nine ball(billiards), and riding and building harley-davidson motorcycles, not to mention scads of other things. enthusiasts. But surely you must know that I always put RPB in my "favorite places" folder so that I can check on all you paddlepeople whenever I want. So, now you know. Paddler…Biker….Fisherman…Pool Shark…Thrillseeker…Bad Billy. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Badbilly – how many handles do you have in this newsgroup? Evidently one for each of his personalities:-) I like theKnuckle the best!  How bout you? – Mothra  (aka Kathy Streletzky)   "Whan that Aprill with his shoures soote                                   The droughte of March hath perced to the roote, . . . Thanne longen folk to goon on pilgrimages."  - Geoffrey Chaucer </PRE</HTML

Response:

A number of well-written soliloquies.  Could you not excise the few items that belong in a separate category, due to the unfortunate occurences of offennsive language?

I don’t think so, Robin, re-read it – the "offensive" sections are part of a whole.  Nice-writing, Cubic Dog. – Mothra  (aka Kathy Streletzky)    "Whan that Aprill with his shoures soote                                   The droughte of March hath perced to the roote, . . . Thanne longen folk to goon on pilgrimages."  - Geoffrey Chaucer

Response:

A number of well-written soliloquies.  Could you not excise the few items that belong in a separate category, due to the unfortunate occurences of offennsive language?

Response:

I like it! shimmering the warriors small boat vanishes on the eddy line his soul intact

- Mothra  (aka Kathy Streletzky)    "Whan that Aprill with his shoures soote                                   The droughte of March hath perced to the roote, . . . Thanne longen folk to goon on pilgrimages."  - Geoffrey Chaucer

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"Fool!" "The Paddle is the soul,

snip… Very Nice…

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"Rules and laws are always the result of loss of respect and courtesy and are themselves therefore the seeds of failure see to your soul first if you seek mastery"

Well Said Brother

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Awesome poetic commentary!

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Fool!" "The Paddle is the soul, see to your soul first or there will be no mastery." The warrior smiles as his children play. These new ones come, I had seen their forebearers come to the crags when I was young, We the clueless clutched and groped our way skyward, tenous pro, lead out on clean placements. They with white scars of chalk showing all the moves, drove bolts and clipped in, stretching out the ladders to touch the heart of fear, climbed glass while we spat on the ground in disgust. They breezed our standards and buried the soul. He had an old land rover, and we pulled the grill off and brought it with us to throw it over the fire to grill some steaks we bought in town the other day. Our canoes were safely ashore high above the water and tied off just in case. It was raining. "Kore wa burauni desu. Chairo no chyokoreeto no keeki desu. Doozo." I took the offered brownie cake, it tasted strongly of herbs. The warrior told me of important things, sex, death, flyfishing, , I watched the stars melt. Years passed and quiet bass fishermen with stealthy trolling motors drift jerkbaits through the camp. The dam is a success. Ten thousand years ago, the warrior walked away from the field at the end of the day his hide intact, only by the grace of God. His seed sees the whole world No field, no lance thrust to parry we pierce ourselves No spoils no freedom dashed at the slavers block we forge our own chains No tribe no belonging ritual to earn we ink and needle our limbs "Fuck You, Bitch" we say in conversation, without meaning or feeling or care The warrior muses on the antinym of competition "Rules and laws are always the result of loss of respect and courtesy and are themselves therefore the seeds of failure see to your soul first if you seek mastery" Fuck you! I can throw ends till you puke watching me I got the flatspin down and I can kick yer butt at rodeo class IV? you call that class IV? I fell asleep That creek roks, I kicked its ass though shimmering the warriors small boat vanishes on the eddy line his soul intact the mystery is fun :wq

The best post to this group in days!

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"Fool!" "The Paddle is the soul, see to your soul first or there will be no mastery." The warrior smiles as his children play. These new ones come, I had seen their forebearers come to the crags when I was young, We the clueless clutched and groped our way skyward, tenous pro, lead out on clean placements. They with white scars of chalk showing all the moves, drove bolts and clipped in, stretching out the ladders to touch the heart of fear, climbed glass while we spat on the ground in disgust. They breezed our standards and buried the soul. He had an old land rover, and we pulled the grill off and brought it with us to throw it over the fire to grill some steaks we bought in town the other day. Our canoes were safely ashore high above the water and tied off just in case. It was raining. "Kore wa burauni desu. Chairo no chyokoreeto no keeki desu. Doozo." I took the offered brownie cake, it tasted strongly of herbs. The warrior told me of important things, sex, death, flyfishing, , I watched the stars melt. Years passed and quiet bass fishermen with stealthy trolling motors drift jerkbaits through the camp. The dam is a success. Ten thousand years ago, the warrior walked away from the field at the end of the day his hide intact, only by the grace of God. His seed sees the whole world No field, no lance thrust to parry we pierce ourselves No spoils no freedom dashed at the slavers block we forge our own chains No tribe no belonging ritual to earn we ink and needle our limbs "Fuck You, Bitch" we say in conversation, without meaning or feeling or care The warrior muses on the antinym of competition "Rules and laws are always the result of loss of respect and courtesy and are themselves therefore the seeds of failure see to your soul first if you seek mastery" Fuck you! I can throw ends till you puke watching me I got the flatspin down and I can kick yer butt at rodeo class IV? you call that class IV? I fell asleep That creek roks, I kicked its ass though shimmering the warriors small boat vanishes on the eddy line his soul intact the mystery is fun :wq

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Question:

I will be in Anchorage 1 – 4 Aug 96.  I have two choices. First choice is floating down Lake Creek and fishing for Silvers.  Second choice is fishing the Keni. I am the only flyfisher in the bunch and my partners have no idea what type of fly I should be tying.  I need to start tying now so any suggestions on patterns and sizes would be apprecitated.   Thanks,         John

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I will be in Anchorage 1 – 4 Aug 96.  I have two choices. First choice is floating down Lake Creek and fishing for Silvers.  Second choice is fishing the Keni. I am the only flyfisher in the bunch and my partners have no idea what type of fly I should be tying.  I need to start tying now so any suggestions on patterns and sizes would be apprecitated.   Thanks,        John

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx John…. I have been up in Anchorage several time at an area called Bulchitna. It is a lake and stream  on a tributary (sp) of Lake creek.  August may be just a little ealy for silvers, but if you want some good fishing and if the silvers are up, I would go to Bulchitna.  You can get a cabin on the lake (rustic cabin), with the stream 50 yards behind the cabin.  Lots of Pinks, rainbows, grayling, and silver (when running), and pike in the lake.  Call Craig Ketchum of Ketchum Air Service.  I don’t have the number with me right now, but they have an 800 number which you can get from the 800 operator.  Just as for Ketchum Air Service in Anchorage. Ketchum has lots of places they will fly you out to.  You can fish from 5:30am til 10:30pm.  I know that for a fact.  Who eats when you can fish! Contact me for more info. Russ….

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I will be in Anchorage 1 – 4 Aug 96.  I have two choices. First choice is floating down Lake Creek and fishing for Silvers.  Second choice is fishing the Keni. I am the only flyfisher in the bunch and my partners have no idea what type of fly I should be tying.  I need to start tying now so any suggestions on patterns and sizes would be apprecitated.   Thanks,         John

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I will be in Anchorage 1 – 4 Aug 96.  I have two choices. First choice is floating down Lake Creek and fishing for Silvers.  Second choice is fishing the Keni. I am the only flyfisher in the bunch and my partners have no idea what type of fly I should be tying.  I need to start tying now so any suggestions on patterns and sizes would be apprecitated.   Thanks,        John

I’d tie wooly buggers, egg-sucking leeches, large egg patterns, and flashy streamers on 1/0 to #4 hooks.  The best all-around fly in Alaska is probably the egg sucking leech in purple/Iliamna pinky.   BTW you didn’t ask but: Lake Creek float trip = nice wilderness experience, some mild whitewater, (WW1 – WW3) and good fishing.  There will be some , grayling, RBTs and some tired Kings.  It might be a bit early for Silvers in the upper river but you should run into them in the lower part. Kenai = lots of people, (although the King Salmon crowds are gone) and Aug. 1 – 4 is too early for Kenai Silvers.  They hit their stride in early September.  May be some late run Reds around in the upper drainages, (albeit a bit tired.) R. Wood in Alaska

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Question:

Anyone subscribe to the 8wt. Journal?  If so, have you received the January issue? Thanks, Larry Lincoln, NE   USA "Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes."    Thoreau

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Anyone subscribe to the 8wt. Journal?  If so, have you received the January issue?

Bummer, got my answer in the mail today.  8wt. Journal has ceased publication.  John Likakis, 8wt. Journal’s editor, is the new editor of American Angler.  Subscribers have the option of fulfilling their 8wt. Journal subscription with American Angler, Flyer Tyer or Saltwater Fly Fishing. Larry

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Question:

Well, here’s a good reason to boycott N.A.F.C.: They just sent me a book I didn’t order. I am supposed to keep it and Pay $7.00, or send it back. They provide a label to apply for return postage, but still, its a nuisance to have to return the thing. And I definately don’t want it.      Along with the book I sent back my request that they terminate my membership immediately. This sort of marketing, if not illegal, is certainly unethical. Dale Owens

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –       I just received in the mail an application to the North American Fishing Club.  I’m not sure if I have heard of it before and was wondering if anyone can give me any information on it.  Thanks. Basically, it’s a way of flogging a magazine. not much more. I get 2 or three of their mailings each year, and recycle immediately. One thing I save – that foil sticker! Put it on a favourite flybox and you’ll never leave it behind on a rock. — 3798 Woodland Drive     voice: (604) 368-9315 Trail, BC               data:  (604) 368-9341

I received (UN-solicited) a copy of NAFC magazine and was disgusted!!! I contained 1 minor reference to conservation of any sort.  And was filled with pages of smiling anglers from around North America, happily displaying their dead fish.  Not one LIVE release.  A true demonstration of "CONSERVATION THROUGH INCOMPETENCE" I will not support any publication or organization that does not take a responsible view toward fish stocks, and/or the environment. I am not a radical, "tree hugger", "sliver slut" or the like, but I am a responsible fly fisherman.  And as such believe in Catch and Release. The Californian ocean stocks, and the Atlantic Cod Stocks should have shown us something !  When they’re gone, they’re gone. NAFC publishes all the tried and true ways of catching fish, with a few "new" wrinkles.  But they should not promote the constant slaughter of fish just for their own profit. (thats my two cents worth)

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$ .02  Good on ya !

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FRY,TRAIL,BC,) says:       I just received in the mail an application to the North American Fishing Club.  I’m not sure if I have heard of it before and was wondering if anyone can give me any information on it.  Thanks. Basically, it’s a way of flogging a magazine. not much more. I get 2 or three of their mailings each year, and recycle immediately. One thing I save – that foil sticker! Put it on a favourite flybox and you’ll never leave it behind on a rock. —

A guy I work with just offered me the membership that the North American Fishing Club sent to his rabbit!  (Honest!  "This came in under my rabbit’s name."….goes the note…) What a mailing list! Tim

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A boycott can be a VERY powerful tool…if used properly…however, lately I have noticed that any time someone sees something that THEY think MIGHT be unethical/immoral/not right/etc., they start screaming "boycott"… I’ll be honest with you, I know nothing about the North American Fish Club, and there may be a VERY good cause to boycott them…but just because the issue you happened to see had too many catch-and-keep pictures?  C’mon… Perhaps a better strategy would be to write them and ask them their policy on C&R and if it’s not to your liking, inform them that you disapprove… if you then feel strongly about it, check around and see if others agree with you…THEN, scream "boycott" from the mountaintops…and give your (well- researched) finding…given thorough information, perhaps more people will agree with your "boycott" suggestion… Fish on!, *Simple name, simple tagline…                                     * *("If at first you don’t succeed, face it…                        * *             …you might just be stupid.")                        *

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says:       I just received in the mail an application to the North American Fishing Club.  I’m not sure if I have heard of it before and was wondering if anyone can give me any information on it.  Thanks.

I am a current member of the NAFC, but not for long.  It is just like all fishing magazines: get a one year subscription, save the magazines, and pretty much read them for the rest of your life.  Not much new. Yesterday I received a mailing from the same people to join the Handyman of America Club, or some such crap.  Right in the trash. John Richardson

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says:       I just received in the mail an application to the North American Fishing Club.  I’m not sure if I have heard of it before and was wondering if anyone can give me any information on it.  Thanks.

I canceled my subscription to NAFC.  It’s ok, but not great.  I took the money and doubled my contribution to TU.  At least there my $ goes to do some good for cold water fishing, and the magazine from them isn’t too bad either.  NAFC is not for me, but save the boycott for an important issue. Don’t boycott every company you don’t want to buy from, and don’t cry wolf at every corner.  People are becoming too de-sensatized as it is.  (my 0.02) . Lenny Bloksberg . .

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A boycott can be a VERY powerful tool…if used properly…however, lately I have noticed that any time someone sees something that THEY think MIGHT be unethical/immoral/not right/etc., they start screaming "boycott"… … Perhaps a better strategy would be to write them and ask them their policy on C&R and if it’s not to your liking, inform them that you disapprove… if you then feel strongly about it, check around and see if others agree with you…THEN, scream "boycott" from the mountaintops…and give your (well- researched) finding…given thorough information, perhaps more people will agree with your "boycott" suggestion…

I agree with JC 100% on this one.  An important issue here is that usually on the internet we only get to hear one side of the story.  A couple of years ago there was a heated debate about this issue in a local "general" newsgroup.  Someone posted a boycott suggestion after he got what he felt was poor service from an audio/video repair shop.  The person posted very littles about the details of the repair but didn’t hold back in claiming that the proprietor was technically incompetent, unbusiness-like and even went as far as to question the proprietors morals and sanity.  Meanwhile the proprietor was totally unaware that this information was being posted to a newsgroup read by thousands of potential customers.  What that poster didn’t count on was the fact that I lived across the street from this shop and had spent hours in there "talking shop" about audio equipment, music, and home computing.  More importantly, I saw his business practices first hand, and albeit being a little gruff at times, he always seemed fair, honest, and very technically competant (he’s been in the business for 17 years).  I showed him a copy of what was being said about him on the internet and within an hour or two he acquired an internet account from a local provider and I showed him how to post a response to the group.  This was a fairly rare case where the business bearing the brundt of someones accusations had a chance to respond.  So before crying "boycott" and making some accusations, take a breath and try to look at both sides of the issue.  If you *do* decide to post, make sure that you give us enough facts to determine that you’re not just a disgruntled customer with a vendetta. Sorry, this isn’t really fishing related but I’m going to followup with an article this *is*. — John Fereira   "Guru of Miscellany" Pleasanton, CA Viacom Cable Division

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I’m trying to figure out where to go fishing in Washington this weekend.  I have never tried Coldwater Lake by Mt. St. Helens.  I read something a few weeks ago that said fishing was getting better.   Anyone have any recent experience there?  I will be using my float tube if it is legal there. TIA

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kratz / Mike Bosko) writes: I’m trying to figure out where to go fishing in Washington this weekend. I have never tried Coldwater Lake by Mt. St. Helens.  I read something a few weeks ago that said fishing was getting better.   Anyone have any recent experience there?  I will be using my float tube if it is legal there. TIA

Though the fishing at Coldwater was great, right after it opened up, the lake is still not highly fertile.  After the initial good results, it tailed off quickly, to where it is now another mediocre high lake. Sadly, catch and release does not equal no kill.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -A boycott can be a VERY powerful tool…if used properly…however, lately I have noticed that any time someone sees something that THEY think MIGHT be unethical/immoral/not right/etc., they start screaming "boycott"… I’ll be honest with you, I know nothing about the North American Fish Club, and there may be a VERY good cause to boycott them…but just because the issue you happened to see had too many catch-and-keep pictures?  C’mon… Perhaps a better strategy would be to write them and ask them their policy on C&R and if it’s not to your liking, inform them that you disapprove… if you then feel strongly about it, check around and see if others agree with you…THEN, scream "boycott" from the mountaintops…and give your (well- researched) finding…given thorough information, perhaps more people will agree with your "boycott" suggestion… Fish on!, *Simple name, simple tagline…                                     * *("If at first you don’t succeed, face it…                        * *             …you might just be stupid.")                        *

Boy are you right JC.  Boycott furs, ’cause I don’t feel it’s right to wear them.  Boycott Winchester, ’cause I think the lever action is an unfair advantage.  Geez, pretty soon we’ll all be standing around naked and hungry because someone doesn’t like someone else’s ideas.  Seems a little foolish to me. North American Fishing Club has NEVER attempted to be a flyfishing organization nor has it portrayed itself as such.  It is an organization of fisherman from ALL types of fishing, much as the NRA is an organization for gun enthusiasts/hunters from all types of hunting.  Keep in mind that not all fisherman beleive in C&R fishing.  While I agree this is a shame (I personally use selective harvest advocted by the In-Fisherman) but I am not about to advocate boycotting fishing because not everyone agrees with me. For some reason that seems to be the attitude of many flyfisherpersons I meet, if you don’t agree with them you MUST separate yourself from them and make an example of them.  That attitude is silly, and selfish. I fish with a number of people with whom I have disagreements about fishing, but I still enjoy fishing with them even though our personal definitions of what fishing *is* differs 180 degrees. I haven’t quite figured out how this FF attitute thing works, and I hope to GOD I never get it.  Perhaps it’s just my imagination but there seems to be a number of FF’s who look down their nose at other forms of fishing. While I prefer FFing I hold nothing against the bait/artificial fisherman.  And just because a guy decides to keep a few fish does not make him a Simon Lagree, it just makes him someone who enjoys an occasional meal of fresh fish.  

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Although I’ve yet to actually BUY and use fly gear, I’m extremely interested in it…Still, I think I see the fundamental "problem" with the mentality of many FFers and some good reasons for this "problem"… Most of the fish that FFers fish for happen to be the same fish that are most benefitted by C&R…so it’s just an inherent part of FFing…but it occasionally is "forced" onto every person who owns a fishing pole… while C&R is essential/necessary/at least a "good" thing, it is not necessarily the ONLY choice… For example, catching and KEEPING a limit of crappie is ENCOURAGED in MANY public (state and county) waters in my area of Missouri…as well as other panfish…also, in my hometown (read:  backsticks Missouri), there are literally HUNDREDS of private ponds/lakes that are FULL of bass/catfish/etc… if these waters were fished catch & KEEP for the next thousand years, they will STILL be FULL of fish…you simply can not eliminate all of the fish from a body of water in a situation like this by C&K fishing even every day… My point (buried somewhere in the early morning post) is that there is a definite need for C&R fishing…but that C&K is not inherently evil… and that the "morality" of fishermen should not be evaluated simply on whether they are exclusively C&R or C&K… FYI, so you know where I stand…I obey ALL length/creel limit laws…and I C&R all fish that I do not intend to eat…however, I do keep most crappie that I catch, most of the legal largemouth bass that are in the 1 to 4 pound range (that’s not necessarily a C&K mentality based on the spawning capabilities of larger fish, it’s just that they’re not as tasty when they’re large), and many other species…limited to the amount that I and my family will eat…Is this an "unethical" way to fish? Fish on!, JC – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Boy are you right JC.  Boycott furs, ’cause I don’t feel it’s right to wear them.  Boycott Winchester, ’cause I think the lever action is an unfair advantage.  Geez, pretty soon we’ll all be standing around naked and hungry because someone doesn’t like someone else’s ideas.  Seems a little foolish to me. North American Fishing Club has NEVER attempted to be a flyfishing organization nor has it portrayed itself as such.  It is an organization of fisherman from ALL types of fishing, much as the NRA is an organization for gun enthusiasts/hunters from all types of hunting.  Keep in mind that not all fisherman beleive in C&R fishing.  While I agree this is a shame (I personally use selective harvest advocted by the In-Fisherman) but I am not about to advocate boycotting fishing because not everyone agrees with me. For some reason that seems to be the attitude of many flyfisherpersons I meet, if you don’t agree with them you MUST separate yourself from them and make an example of them.  That attitude is silly, and selfish. I fish with a number of people with whom I have disagreements about fishing, but I still enjoy fishing with them even though our personal definitions of what fishing *is* differs 180 degrees. I haven’t quite figured out how this FF attitute thing works, and I hope to GOD I never get it.  Perhaps it’s just my imagination but there seems to be a number of FF’s who look down their nose at other forms of fishing. While I prefer FFing I hold nothing against the bait/artificial fisherman.  And just because a guy decides to keep a few fish does not make him a Simon Lagree, it just makes him someone who enjoys an occasional meal of fresh fish.

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   I just received in the mail an application to the North American Fishing Club.  I’m not sure if I have heard of it before and was wondering if anyone can give me any information on it.  Thanks.

Basically, it’s a way of flogging a magazine. not much more. I get 2 or three of their mailings each year, and recycle immediately. One thing I save – that foil sticker! Put it on a favourite flybox and you’ll never leave it behind on a rock. — 3798 Woodland Drive     voice: (604) 368-9315 Trail, BC               data:  (604) 368-9341

Response: