Question:

The raising of children cannot be delegated to day-care, nannies and the boob-tube.  It requires constant attention and care.  The economic reality for many families these days is that both parents work.  It is indeed a complex and difficult problem.

    It is a problem that is difficult and not a single simple answer will do. Are the parents or the child to blame? In some cases the parents are to blame but, not in all, there are cases where the kids are plain rebellious and the parents are wonderful.      It is a sad state of affairs that the TV or video games are the surrogate parents. Many homes where there is two parents consist of both of them working long hours to provide extra. I also understand where some families choose to have a little less extras and have a parent around during the children’s years at home. I guess it breaks down to what is the most important.     Thanks I will step off the box and get back into the background.. D.S.

Response:

   I really do feel sorry for the parents though because kids these days dont talk with parents like they used to. I honestly think it would be fair

I don’t believe that it is the kids that are the cause of this… -Eric

Response:

The raising of children cannot be delegated to day-care, nannies and the boob-tube.  It requires constant attention and care.  The economic reality for many families these days is that both parents work.  It is indeed a complex and difficult problem.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    I really do feel sorry for the parents though because kids these days dont talk with parents like they used to. I honestly think it would be fair I don’t believe that it is the kids that are the cause of this… -Eric

Response:

Why?  Because one kid broke a couple windows with an airplane? Mike MU-2

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Raise the minimum age for getting PPL to 21. Personally, I have been very happy with the teens I have seen flying. Most of them are earnest types who work very hard. I have a tough time picturing any of the teens that I have instructed doing any of the crazy stunts you hear about. Nevertheless, I fear that Rick Cremer is correct in predicting that there will be stricter age limits on learning to fly. It will be a sad day when these are enacted. I might not have as much sympathy for the parents as you, however. Did these people not have a clue that their kid was a UBL fan? What kind of parents were they? What kinds of values were they teaching their son, anyway? And if he was rejecting reasonable standards and values, why the heck were they letting him take flying lessons? | Ok the deal is everyone needs to get along and stop arguing. The bottom line | is one person screwed up and now everyone is disagreeing. The same thing | happened sept 11th, the only difference is we all agreed because we all | wanted to fly, now the adults don’t care what happens to the kids because | the adults aren’t at risk here. | | -one kid screwed up, he’s an idiot, that’s the bottom line. Sure he may have | had problems but he’s screwed us all over and no I don’t care that he died | and no im not being immature by not caring. While I really dont care about | him I do feel sorry for his parents, I cant imagine my parents if I did | something like that. Suicide is not the answer to solving your problems. I’m | not the problem here, I don’t make fun of people, I don’t put people down | (unless they start it), I talk to anyone no matter what others think. I give | everyone a fair chance no matter what others think until they give me a | reason to do otherwise. Now if everyone would do the same this may not have | happened. | -Some teens are mature (I would say most teens that fly are, at least it | shows they have the devotion to do something) and some teens are immature. | -Some adults are mature, some are immature. | -sure they can raise the soloing age to 21 or even 21 before you start | training but what happens when some 40 y/o man does the same thing? | -We all need to stick together because we are all at risk for losing what we | love. | -The best thing to do is hope that this time next year the media is focused | on some other pointless topic such as high school sports games! | -Dont make me feel like im not wanted here, I love reading the topics in | this group and love posting my questions but I dont like reading about how | people think I shouldnt be flying. | | |

Response:

It’s on-going, and please don’t attack me, as it would appear most are getting attacked when they voice their opinions now…

We’re with you, Casey.  As a teenage pilot, you’re living the dream I had to wait another 20 years to achieve, and I tip my hat to you. This isn’t an age thing — it’s a mental health issue, and should be treated as such. — Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Warrior N33431

Response:

    I really do feel sorry for the parents though because kids these days dont talk with parents like they used to. I honestly think it would be fair to say my parents are great parents yet if I was to do something like this they would never know until its to late. My parents love me, care about me, and are great but I still, along with most teens, try to push them away. When they talk to me I dont want to talk to them, its none of their business, etc. Not only that but most parents have nothing in common with their kids. For instance my dad likes baseball cards, being outside, and fishing. My mom likes dolls, shopping, and being outside. I like computers and flying. I hate doing everything they do and they pretty much hate everything I do except my mom will fly occasionally. Sure I try to do what they like to do sometimes to make them happy, after all they are my parents and Im their last "baby" and soon ill be leaving home to. When I get home I eat and goto my room and come out when its time to leave, its the way kids do. I personally think the parents are still great parents for not knowing, it shows they trusted their kid. Unfortunatly this kid couldnt be trusted and I dont know the family history, only what ive heard. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Personally, I have been very happy with the teens I have seen flying. Most of them are earnest types who work very hard. I have a tough time picturing any of the teens that I have instructed doing any of the crazy stunts you hear about. Nevertheless, I fear that Rick Cremer is correct in predicting that there will be stricter age limits on learning to fly. It will be a sad day when these are enacted. I might not have as much sympathy for the parents as you, however. Did these people not have a clue that their kid was a UBL fan? What kind of parents were they? What kinds of values were they teaching their son, anyway? And if he was rejecting reasonable standards and values, why the heck were they letting him take flying lessons? | Ok the deal is everyone needs to get along and stop arguing. The bottom line | is one person screwed up and now everyone is disagreeing. The same thing | happened sept 11th, the only difference is we all agreed because we all | wanted to fly, now the adults don’t care what happens to the kids because | the adults aren’t at risk here. | | -one kid screwed up, he’s an idiot, that’s the bottom line. Sure he may have | had problems but he’s screwed us all over and no I don’t care that he died | and no im not being immature by not caring. While I really dont care about | him I do feel sorry for his parents, I cant imagine my parents if I did | something like that. Suicide is not the answer to solving your problems. I’m | not the problem here, I don’t make fun of people, I don’t put people down | (unless they start it), I talk to anyone no matter what others think. I give | everyone a fair chance no matter what others think until they give me a | reason to do otherwise. Now if everyone would do the same this may not have | happened. | -Some teens are mature (I would say most teens that fly are, at least it | shows they have the devotion to do something) and some teens are immature. | -Some adults are mature, some are immature. | -sure they can raise the soloing age to 21 or even 21 before you start | training but what happens when some 40 y/o man does the same thing? | -We all need to stick together because we are all at risk for losing what we | love. | -The best thing to do is hope that this time next year the media is focused | on some other pointless topic such as high school sports games! | -Dont make me feel like im not wanted here, I love reading the topics in | this group and love posting my questions but I dont like reading about how | people think I shouldnt be flying. | | |

Response:

I feel it man, I feel it…Flying is all I have (well other than my semi-good looks ) -J

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just my opinion, and I support everything said by CJ in this thread… I am 17 and a pilot like Zach. If my right to fly was taken away, I would probably just sit at home and have nothing to do. You see, flying has GIVEN me my maturity… it has shown me how to be responsible with earning every dime it takes to fly (I work at a grocery store) and also the responsibility in the air. For us teens that do take flying very seriously, we’re just as good as the 40 y/o pilot. It’s sad that this kid died, but that’s no reason to take away my right to fly and share my dream with others. Last year, 4 of my friends died in a car accident. Should I not be able to drive? It’s on-going, and please don’t attack me, as it would appear most are getting attacked when they voice their opinions now… Clear Skies- Casey Hansen Iowa, USA PP-ASEL   -Dont make me feel like im not wanted here, I love reading the topics in this group and love posting my questions but I dont like reading about how people think I shouldnt be flying. Take it easy, Zach; the regulars know you’re alright. Ignore the trollers. — Dan N9387D at BFM

Response:

Ironic coincidence is that one of the recent issues of AOPA Pilot (the one with the 2001 Bonanza on the cover) shows a 16 year old CAP cadet shaking hands with her instructor after soloing both gliders and a 172 on her 16th birthday. David Reinhart – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does that mean that my daughter shouldn’t be able to get her glider pilot license or that air cadet’s should be abolished? Sounds like a politicians knee jerk reaction to me. I think that 15 year old kids shouldn’t be allowed to fly airplanes into buildings and that we as a society should take "reasonable" precautions to prevent it from happening. Enough said. Willy Raise the minimum age for getting PPL to 21. Personally, I have been very happy with the teens I have seen flying. Most of them are earnest types who work very hard. I have a tough time picturing any of the teens that I have instructed doing any of the crazy stunts you hear about. Nevertheless, I fear that Rick Cremer is correct in predicting that there will be stricter age limits on learning to fly. It will be a sad day when these are enacted. I might not have as much sympathy for the parents as you, however. Did these people not have a clue that their kid was a UBL fan? What kind of parents were they? What kinds of values were they teaching their son, anyway? And if he was rejecting reasonable standards and values, why the heck were they letting him take flying lessons? | Ok the deal is everyone needs to get along and stop arguing. The bottom line | is one person screwed up and now everyone is disagreeing. The same thing | happened sept 11th, the only difference is we all agreed because we all | wanted to fly, now the adults don’t care what happens to the kids because | the adults aren’t at risk here. | | -one kid screwed up, he’s an idiot, that’s the bottom line. Sure he may have | had problems but he’s screwed us all over and no I don’t care that he died | and no im not being immature by not caring. While I really dont care about | him I do feel sorry for his parents, I cant imagine my parents if I did | something like that. Suicide is not the answer to solving your problems. I’m | not the problem here, I don’t make fun of people, I don’t put people down | (unless they start it), I talk to anyone no matter what others think. I give | everyone a fair chance no matter what others think until they give me a | reason to do otherwise. Now if everyone would do the same this may not have | happened. | -Some teens are mature (I would say most teens that fly are, at least it | shows they have the devotion to do something) and some teens are immature. | -Some adults are mature, some are immature. | -sure they can raise the soloing age to 21 or even 21 before you start | training but what happens when some 40 y/o man does the same thing? | -We all need to stick together because we are all at risk for losing what we | love. | -The best thing to do is hope that this time next year the media is focused | on some other pointless topic such as high school sports games! | -Dont make me feel like im not wanted here, I love reading the topics in | this group and love posting my questions but I dont like reading about how | people think I shouldnt be flying. | | |

Response:

Does that mean that my daughter shouldn’t be able to get her glider pilot license or that air cadet’s should be abolished? Sounds like a politicians knee jerk reaction to me. I think that 15 year old kids shouldn’t be allowed to fly airplanes into buildings and that we as a society should take "reasonable" precautions to prevent it from happening. Enough said. Willy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Raise the minimum age for getting PPL to 21. Personally, I have been very happy with the teens I have seen flying. Most of them are earnest types who work very hard. I have a tough time picturing any of the teens that I have instructed doing any of the crazy stunts you hear about. Nevertheless, I fear that Rick Cremer is correct in predicting that there will be stricter age limits on learning to fly. It will be a sad day when these are enacted. I might not have as much sympathy for the parents as you, however. Did these people not have a clue that their kid was a UBL fan? What kind of parents were they? What kinds of values were they teaching their son, anyway? And if he was rejecting reasonable standards and values, why the heck were they letting him take flying lessons? | Ok the deal is everyone needs to get along and stop arguing. The bottom line | is one person screwed up and now everyone is disagreeing. The same thing | happened sept 11th, the only difference is we all agreed because we all | wanted to fly, now the adults don’t care what happens to the kids because | the adults aren’t at risk here. | | -one kid screwed up, he’s an idiot, that’s the bottom line. Sure he may have | had problems but he’s screwed us all over and no I don’t care that he died | and no im not being immature by not caring. While I really dont care about | him I do feel sorry for his parents, I cant imagine my parents if I did | something like that. Suicide is not the answer to solving your problems. I’m | not the problem here, I don’t make fun of people, I don’t put people down | (unless they start it), I talk to anyone no matter what others think. I give | everyone a fair chance no matter what others think until they give me a | reason to do otherwise. Now if everyone would do the same this may not have | happened. | -Some teens are mature (I would say most teens that fly are, at least it | shows they have the devotion to do something) and some teens are immature. | -Some adults are mature, some are immature. | -sure they can raise the soloing age to 21 or even 21 before you start | training but what happens when some 40 y/o man does the same thing? | -We all need to stick together because we are all at risk for losing what we | love. | -The best thing to do is hope that this time next year the media is focused | on some other pointless topic such as high school sports games! | -Dont make me feel like im not wanted here, I love reading the topics in | this group and love posting my questions but I dont like reading about how | people think I shouldnt be flying. | | |

Response:

Just my opinion, and I support everything said by CJ in this thread… I am 17 and a pilot like Zach. If my right to fly was taken away, I would probably just sit at home and have nothing to do. You see, flying has GIVEN me my maturity… it has shown me how to be responsible with earning every dime it takes to fly (I work at a grocery store) and also the responsibility in the air. For us teens that do take flying very seriously, we’re just as good as the 40 y/o pilot. It’s sad that this kid died, but that’s no reason to take away my right to fly and share my dream with others. Last year, 4 of my friends died in a car accident. Should I not be able to drive? It’s on-going, and please don’t attack me, as it would appear most are getting attacked when they voice their opinions now… Clear Skies- Casey Hansen Iowa, USA PP-ASEL

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   -Dont make me feel like im not wanted here, I love reading the topics in this group and love posting my questions but I dont like reading about how people think I shouldnt be flying. Take it easy, Zach; the regulars know you’re alright. Ignore the trollers. — Dan N9387D at BFM

Response:

Why, because one goofball killed himself?  What about all the goofballs of all ages that kill themselves in cars everyday?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Raise the minimum age for getting PPL to 21. Personally, I have been very happy with the teens I have seen flying. Most of them are earnest types who work very hard. I have a tough time picturing any of the teens that I have instructed doing any of the crazy stunts you hear about. Nevertheless, I fear that Rick Cremer is correct in predicting that there will be stricter age limits on learning to fly. It will be a sad day when these are enacted. I might not have as much sympathy for the parents as you, however. Did these people not have a clue that their kid was a UBL fan? What kind of parents were they? What kinds of values were they teaching their son, anyway? And if he was rejecting reasonable standards and values, why the heck were they letting him take flying lessons? | Ok the deal is everyone needs to get along and stop arguing. The bottom line | is one person screwed up and now everyone is disagreeing. The same thing | happened sept 11th, the only difference is we all agreed because we all | wanted to fly, now the adults don’t care what happens to the kids because | the adults aren’t at risk here. | | -one kid screwed up, he’s an idiot, that’s the bottom line. Sure he may have | had problems but he’s screwed us all over and no I don’t care that he died | and no im not being immature by not caring. While I really dont care about | him I do feel sorry for his parents, I cant imagine my parents if I did | something like that. Suicide is not the answer to solving your problems. I’m | not the problem here, I don’t make fun of people, I don’t put people down | (unless they start it), I talk to anyone no matter what others think. I give | everyone a fair chance no matter what others think until they give me a | reason to do otherwise. Now if everyone would do the same this may not have | happened. | -Some teens are mature (I would say most teens that fly are, at least it | shows they have the devotion to do something) and some teens are immature. | -Some adults are mature, some are immature. | -sure they can raise the soloing age to 21 or even 21 before you start | training but what happens when some 40 y/o man does the same thing? | -We all need to stick together because we are all at risk for losing what we | love. | -The best thing to do is hope that this time next year the media is focused | on some other pointless topic such as high school sports games! | -Dont make me feel like im not wanted here, I love reading the topics in | this group and love posting my questions but I dont like reading about how | people think I shouldnt be flying. | | |

Response:

I agree… -J – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Personally, I have been very happy with the teens I have seen flying. Most of them are earnest types who work very hard. I have a tough time picturing any of the teens that I have instructed doing any of the crazy stunts you hear about. Nevertheless, I fear that Rick Cremer is correct in predicting that there will be stricter age limits on learning to fly. It will be a sad day when these are enacted. I might not have as much sympathy for the parents as you, however. Did these people not have a clue that their kid was a UBL fan? What kind of parents were they? What kinds of values were they teaching their son, anyway? And if he was rejecting reasonable standards and values, why the heck were they letting him take flying lessons? | Ok the deal is everyone needs to get along and stop arguing. The bottom line | is one person screwed up and now everyone is disagreeing. The same thing | happened sept 11th, the only difference is we all agreed because we all | wanted to fly, now the adults don’t care what happens to the kids because | the adults aren’t at risk here. | | -one kid screwed up, he’s an idiot, that’s the bottom line. Sure he may have | had problems but he’s screwed us all over and no I don’t care that he died | and no im not being immature by not caring. While I really dont care about | him I do feel sorry for his parents, I cant imagine my parents if I did | something like that. Suicide is not the answer to solving your problems. I’m | not the problem here, I don’t make fun of people, I don’t put people down | (unless they start it), I talk to anyone no matter what others think. I give | everyone a fair chance no matter what others think until they give me a | reason to do otherwise. Now if everyone would do the same this may not have | happened. | -Some teens are mature (I would say most teens that fly are, at least it | shows they have the devotion to do something) and some teens are immature. | -Some adults are mature, some are immature. | -sure they can raise the soloing age to 21 or even 21 before you start | training but what happens when some 40 y/o man does the same thing? | -We all need to stick together because we are all at risk for losing what we | love. | -The best thing to do is hope that this time next year the media is focused | on some other pointless topic such as high school sports games! | -Dont make me feel like im not wanted here, I love reading the topics in | this group and love posting my questions but I dont like reading about how | people think I shouldnt be flying. | | |

Response:

  -Dont make me feel like im not wanted here, I love reading the topics in this group and love posting my questions but I dont like reading about how people think I shouldnt be flying.

Take it easy, Zach; the regulars know you’re alright. Ignore the trollers. — Dan N9387D at BFM

Response:

Raise the minimum age for getting PPL to 21. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Personally, I have been very happy with the teens I have seen flying. Most of them are earnest types who work very hard. I have a tough time picturing any of the teens that I have instructed doing any of the crazy stunts you hear about. Nevertheless, I fear that Rick Cremer is correct in predicting that there will be stricter age limits on learning to fly. It will be a sad day when these are enacted. I might not have as much sympathy for the parents as you, however. Did these people not have a clue that their kid was a UBL fan? What kind of parents were they? What kinds of values were they teaching their son, anyway? And if he was rejecting reasonable standards and values, why the heck were they letting him take flying lessons? | Ok the deal is everyone needs to get along and stop arguing. The bottom line | is one person screwed up and now everyone is disagreeing. The same thing | happened sept 11th, the only difference is we all agreed because we all | wanted to fly, now the adults don’t care what happens to the kids because | the adults aren’t at risk here. | | -one kid screwed up, he’s an idiot, that’s the bottom line. Sure he may have | had problems but he’s screwed us all over and no I don’t care that he died | and no im not being immature by not caring. While I really dont care about | him I do feel sorry for his parents, I cant imagine my parents if I did | something like that. Suicide is not the answer to solving your problems. I’m | not the problem here, I don’t make fun of people, I don’t put people down | (unless they start it), I talk to anyone no matter what others think. I give | everyone a fair chance no matter what others think until they give me a | reason to do otherwise. Now if everyone would do the same this may not have | happened. | -Some teens are mature (I would say most teens that fly are, at least it | shows they have the devotion to do something) and some teens are immature. | -Some adults are mature, some are immature. | -sure they can raise the soloing age to 21 or even 21 before you start | training but what happens when some 40 y/o man does the same thing? | -We all need to stick together because we are all at risk for losing what we | love. | -The best thing to do is hope that this time next year the media is focused | on some other pointless topic such as high school sports games! | -Dont make me feel like im not wanted here, I love reading the topics in | this group and love posting my questions but I dont like reading about how | people think I shouldnt be flying. | | |

Response:

Personally, I have been very happy with the teens I have seen flying. Most of them are earnest types who work very hard. I have a tough time picturing any of the teens that I have instructed doing any of the crazy stunts you hear about. Nevertheless, I fear that Rick Cremer is correct in predicting that there will be stricter age limits on learning to fly. It will be a sad day when these are enacted. I might not have as much sympathy for the parents as you, however. Did these people not have a clue that their kid was a UBL fan? What kind of parents were they? What kinds of values were they teaching their son, anyway? And if he was rejecting reasonable standards and values, why the heck were they letting him take flying lessons?

| Ok the deal is everyone needs to get along and stop arguing. The bottom line | is one person screwed up and now everyone is disagreeing. The same thing | happened sept 11th, the only difference is we all agreed because we all | wanted to fly, now the adults don’t care what happens to the kids because | the adults aren’t at risk here. | | -one kid screwed up, he’s an idiot, that’s the bottom line. Sure he may have | had problems but he’s screwed us all over and no I don’t care that he died | and no im not being immature by not caring. While I really dont care about | him I do feel sorry for his parents, I cant imagine my parents if I did | something like that. Suicide is not the answer to solving your problems. I’m | not the problem here, I don’t make fun of people, I don’t put people down | (unless they start it), I talk to anyone no matter what others think. I give | everyone a fair chance no matter what others think until they give me a | reason to do otherwise. Now if everyone would do the same this may not have | happened. | -Some teens are mature (I would say most teens that fly are, at least it | shows they have the devotion to do something) and some teens are immature. | -Some adults are mature, some are immature. | -sure they can raise the soloing age to 21 or even 21 before you start | training but what happens when some 40 y/o man does the same thing? | -We all need to stick together because we are all at risk for losing what we | love. | -The best thing to do is hope that this time next year the media is focused | on some other pointless topic such as high school sports games! | -Dont make me feel like im not wanted here, I love reading the topics in | this group and love posting my questions but I dont like reading about how | people think I shouldnt be flying. | | |

Response:

Ok the deal is everyone needs to get along and stop arguing. The bottom line is one person screwed up and now everyone is disagreeing. The same thing happened sept 11th, the only difference is we all agreed because we all wanted to fly, now the adults don’t care what happens to the kids because the adults aren’t at risk here. -one kid screwed up, he’s an idiot, that’s the bottom line. Sure he may have had problems but he’s screwed us all over and no I don’t care that he died and no im not being immature by not caring. While I really dont care about him I do feel sorry for his parents, I cant imagine my parents if I did something like that. Suicide is not the answer to solving your problems. I’m not the problem here, I don’t make fun of people, I don’t put people down (unless they start it), I talk to anyone no matter what others think. I give everyone a fair chance no matter what others think until they give me a reason to do otherwise. Now if everyone would do the same this may not have happened. -Some teens are mature (I would say most teens that fly are, at least it shows they have the devotion to do something) and some teens are immature. -Some adults are mature, some are immature. -sure they can raise the soloing age to 21 or even 21 before you start training but what happens when some 40 y/o man does the same thing? -We all need to stick together because we are all at risk for losing what we love. -The best thing to do is hope that this time next year the media is focused on some other pointless topic such as high school sports games! -Dont make me feel like im not wanted here, I love reading the topics in this group and love posting my questions but I dont like reading about how people think I shouldnt be flying.

Response:

Question:

Nah, If you were really Welsh we wouldn’t have understood a thing you said! ) — Wayne (the Welsh invented Welshe’s Grape Juice….now, the Scotch on the other hand, made themselves useful!!!) To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

I’m Welsh, and from your comments – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – above, Wales doesn’t exist! Seriously the Foot & Mouth epidemic is causing us a lot of problems.  I have organised a day out for a group of disabled anglers next week, and as the access to the fishery is via a farm, the outing has been cancelled.  Most public rights of way are closed. Some closures may seem a bit "knee-jerk", but F & M is serious, so we’ll put up with the inconvenience. I’m sure there are contingency plans for the admission of people (not just anglers) to the USA. — Bill Grey http://www.billboy.co.uk

Response:

Wayne (the Welsh invented Welshe’s Grape Juice….now, the Scotch on the other hand, made themselves useful!!!)

They invented tape? ,      - Ken

Response:

Nah, If you were really Welsh we wouldn’t have understood a thing you said!

ROTFL — Bill Grey http://www.billboy.co.uk

Response:

Christopher Thomas emigrated to the colonies around 1634, from County Cairmarthen.  His parents were Tristram and Elizabeth Thomas.  I am not implying that you should have known any of these folk. <BG

Well, I live about half an hour from Carmarthen Town, of course the county is considerably larger. Thomas is quite a common name in Wales, though I’m surprised to hear the name Tristram as far back as 1634. — Bill Grey http://www.billboy.co.uk

Response:

Let’s just say we’re talking after W.W. II and before the end of the Vietnam War.  Those 9 cases were where?

Before 1929, when the last was reported (as of that edition).  There were cases, 1 in Mexico and 1 in Canada, in the fifties that resulted in border quarantines.  If there were experiments with it pre-1975 and let’s say, for argument’s sake, post Dien Bien Phu, I’d suspect these were to release on SE Asia to mess up the buf population.  I just don’t see it being as that big an issue in the US (well, really, as a current naturally-active virus, anywhere in the Americas, a few parts of SA excepted, and as a weapon, the possible exception of parts of Mexico and CA) anymore.  Plus, it can be vacc’ed out. There are numerous reasons UK and Continental herds seem to get hit with this type of thing (or MCD, etc.), and some of it herd management practices, but some is space-related, and perhaps surprisingly, some is actually caused by the EU and politics. IMO, ranching practices in the Americas are such that it could and would be quickly contained because it would start and initially remain highly localized.  It could be economically bad for industry segments, but it wouldn’t cause a total collapse of the food supply, nor a strain on the agricultural output because of the extremely limited use of working cattle. TC, R

Response:

Richard, did you receive the e-mail I sent you of the leather fly wallet a week of so ago?  If so, was it similar to the one that you have? — Opie  –Planning for the Past–

Response:

Richard, did you receive the e-mail I sent you of the leather fly wallet a week of so ago?  If so, was it similar to the one that you have?

Well, you obviously didn’t get my response <G.  Yes, I did, and thanks – I sent you an email in response, but our ISP was purchased by Prodigy, and we have been going through the "take-over" process, so I’m not 100% certain of what gets to me or out on this account. Anyway, I had some questions and possible info, so when I can get back to the msg. I sent, I’ll resend.  Basically, it appears similar, but it was hard to tell, sorry.  IIRC, you were wondering about age, as well, and based on what I can deduce from my situation, mine is from the very late 1800’s or first quarter of the 1900’s.  As of yet, I haven’t gathered any real history on mine.  Was your dad able to shed any further light on yours? Along the same, er,  "lines" <G:  Willi, if you read this, where are we on the "conversation" resend and have you gotten the NL from OGJ? I hadn’t heard either way. TC, R

Response:

As widespread as this tragedy is, it appears the whole country is under seige.  People are being arrested for possible quarantine violations and a sense of panic emerges.  The last outbreak in the early 90’s didn’t get quite so much attention here in the US as this one.  I think public awareness of HaM as a bio-warfare agent is greater.  We can only hope this comes under control quickly. — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

Response:

"Tragedy"  is not really the right word in my opinion.  This and other similar things are simply the result of pre-programmed catastrophes waiting to happen.   Keeping massive quantities of livestock in unsuitable conditions, feeding them on questionable substances, well laced with all sorts of growth hormones, including various other wide-band medication, legal and otherwise, all in the name of profit. Is the main reason for such outbreaks. Couple this with the "free-trade" in such stuff, and you have the perfect scenario for a catastrophe. The only thing that really surprises me is that we do not have a lot more of the same, especially considering the conditions and circumstances in which other animals are kept and raised.  To call this "farming" is a sad joke. Perhaps our tofu days are nearer than we think? TL MC — "Curiosity is not necessarily a sign of intelligence" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As widespread as this tragedy is, it appears the whole country is under seige.  People are being arrested for possible quarantine violations and a sense of panic emerges.  The last outbreak in the early 90’s didn’t get quite so much attention here in the US as this one.  I think public awareness of HaM as a bio-warfare agent is greater.  We can only hope this comes under control quickly. — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

Response:

Bill, my dad has said that his side of the family are of Welsh/Irish decent. I believe it was my paternal Grandmother’s family.  They are Thomas’.  My paternal Grandfather was a Bowen–as, DUH– and they were from Ireland.  Do you know any Thomas’?  I believe we are descended from the Christopher Thomas line.  Christopher Thomas emigrated to the colonies around 1634, from County Cairmarthen.  His parents were Tristram and Elizabeth Thomas.  I am not implying that you should have known any of these folk. <BG Mark Harrington Bowen  a/k/a The Postmaster

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – writes With the outbreak of hoof and mouth disease in England, Scotland, and Ireland, closurers of farmland to hikers are taking place.  What will be the impact on fishermen of these closurers for the immediate future and will the approaching spring season be endangered by events?  This brings into question whether fly fishermen from infected regions should be permitted into the US to fish US waters.  I fish a spring creek where fishermen are in close proximity to cattle. I’m not going to answer, because I’m Welsh, and from your comments above, Wales doesn’t exist! Seriously the Foot & Mouth epidemic is causing us a lot of problems.  I have organised a day out for a group of disabled anglers next week, and as the access to the fishery is via a farm, the outing has been cancelled.  Most public rights of way are closed. Some closures may seem a bit "knee-jerk", but F & M is serious, so we’ll put up with the inconvenience. I’m sure there are contingency plans for the admission of people (not just anglers) to the USA. — Bill Grey http://www.billboy.co.uk

Response:

Dad said he believed that the wallet came from either England or Scotland, due to the no. marking and that he believed it to have been made about the same time period as you stated for yours. Opie  –Planning for the Past–

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, you obviously didn’t get my response <G.  Yes, I did, and thanks – –snippage… IIRC, you were wondering about age, as well, and based on what I can deduce from my situation, mine is from the very late 1800’s or first quarter of the 1900’s.   TC, R

Response:

writes With the outbreak of hoof and mouth disease in England, Scotland, and Ireland, closurers of farmland to hikers are taking place.  What will be the impact on fishermen of these closurers for the immediate future and will the approaching spring season be endangered by events?  This brings into question whether fly fishermen from infected regions should be permitted into the US to fish US waters.  I fish a spring creek where fishermen are in close proximity to cattle.

I’m not going to answer, because I’m Welsh, and from your comments above, Wales doesn’t exist! Seriously the Foot & Mouth epidemic is causing us a lot of problems.  I have organised a day out for a group of disabled anglers next week, and as the access to the fishery is via a farm, the outing has been cancelled.  Most public rights of way are closed. Some closures may seem a bit "knee-jerk", but F & M is serious, so we’ll put up with the inconvenience. I’m sure there are contingency plans for the admission of people (not just anglers) to the USA. — Bill Grey http://www.billboy.co.uk

Response:

As widespread as this tragedy is, it appears the whole country is under seige.  People are being arrested for possible quarantine violations and a sense of panic emerges.  The last outbreak in the early 90’s didn’t get quite so much attention here in the US as this one.  I think public awareness of HaM as a bio-warfare agent is greater.  We can only hope this comes under control quickly.

HUH!?  Foot and Mouth as a "bio-warfare agent?"  It really doesn’t affect the US, and it isn’t really fatal (OK, _maybe_ as some odd, hoping-for-damage form of "bio-terrorism"), but as warfare, it would be like one force sneezing on the other’s troops in battle and hoping they came down with really bad colds.  Are you sure you aren’t talking about anthrax?   TC, R

Response:

The first experiments were with hoof-and-mouth because of its dispersement properties.  It was believed an intensified and more virulent strain could be developed which would incapacitate enemy troops and have a short life span to permit rapid occupation. — Wayne (not that I have any knowledge of such development or dispersement experiments) To Fish is Human…To Release Divine! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – HUH!?  Foot and Mouth as a "bio-warfare agent?"  It really doesn’t affect the US, and it isn’t really fatal (OK, _maybe_ as some odd, hoping-for-damage form of "bio-terrorism"), but as warfare, it would be like one force sneezing on the other’s troops in battle and hoping they came down with really bad colds.  Are you sure you aren’t talking about anthrax? TC, R

Response:

The first experiments were with hoof-and-mouth because of its dispersement properties.  It was believed an intensified and more virulent strain could be developed which would incapacitate enemy troops and have a short life span to permit rapid occupation.

Um, are we talking WWI here (seriously)?  I can’t imagine using this virus, even "hopped" up (well, I guess it depends HOW hopped up).  I understand it just isn’t all that bad in its er, untampered-with form, as B/C’s go, and its danger in humans is even less than in bovine/ovine/equine pops.  It is basically non-existent in the US – most current RM texts that I have only give it a mention at best, but a early sixties edition of "Stockman’s" talks of 9 cases being reported in the US up to that point.  To the best of knowledge, I’ve never even seen it, in the US or otherwise.  It would seem its damage is mostly herd economics, rather than "danger" in the "mad cow" sense. TC, R

Response:

With the outbreak of hoof and mouth disease in England, Scotland, and Ireland, closurers of farmland to hikers are taking place.  What will be the impact on fishermen of these closurers for the immediate future and will the approaching spring season be endangered by events?  This brings into question whether fly fishermen from infected regions should be permitted into the US to fish US waters.  I fish a spring creek where fishermen are in close proximity to cattle. Wayne to fish is human….to release divine!!  —–  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free (anonymous) Usenet News via the Web  —–   http://newsone.net/ — Free reading and anonymous posting to 60,000+ groups    NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other posts

Response:

Practically all fishing is closed as of now. Most waters are closed, and will remain so for some time.  Access to farmland etc is also extremely restricted. Many measures are being implemented to prevent the spread of the disease. Experience suggests that most will be ineffective. This is unfortunate, but a fact. Attempting to stop the spread of such viral diseases in this day and age of extremely high traffic in all directions is more or less impossible. Transport mechanisms for these diseases are in any case not fully understood. If you need more info on this, there is plenty flying around.  Specific fishing info may be obtained from the groups: uk.rec.fishing.coarse uk.rec.fishing.game uk.rec.fishing sea One assumes that special disinfectionary measures will be introduced in many places, as is already implemented at channel crossings etc. Trucks are obliged to drive through disinfection troughs etc etc. Whether such measures prove effective is a moot point. It remains to be seen whether America and other countries implement specific measures. TL MC — "Curiosity is not necessarily a sign of intelligence" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – With the outbreak of hoof and mouth disease in England, Scotland, and Ireland, closurers of farmland to hikers are taking place.  What will be the impact on fishermen of these closurers for the immediate future and will the approaching spring season be endangered by events?  This brings into question whether fly fishermen from infected regions should be permitted into the US to fish US waters.  I fish a spring creek where fishermen are in close proximity to cattle. Wayne to fish is human….to release divine!!  —–  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free (anonymous) Usenet News via the eb  —–   http://newsone.net/ — Free reading and anonymous posting to 60,000+ groups    NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other posts made through NewsOne.Net violate posting guidelines, email

Response:

Let’s just say we’re talking after W.W. II and before the end of the Vietnam War.  Those 9 cases were where? — Wayne (just guessing at these dates and possible derivative strains) To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

Response:

Mike, we are all party to the development of cheap food production procedures, even unwittingly. I am not convinced that this is the problem at all. Frequent transportation IMO is more likely: why do sheep need to be transported to Germany, then on to Belgium and from there to Italy.? This is madness. Surely the most economical method would be to kill near origin and ship as carcases? It would remove all the suffering, too. Or does transportation attract a subsidy? I know for a fact that car panels, made in Shropshire are shipped to Italy for labelling, then reimported to the UK because they then gain a subsidy. What about all the pollution caused by the lorry transprot over those distances? All unneccessary. All part of the EC madness. Chris

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Tragedy"  is not really the right word in my opinion.  This and other similar things are simply the result of pre-programmed catastrophes waiting to happen.   Keeping massive quantities of livestock in unsuitable conditions, feeding them on questionable substances, well laced with all sorts of growth hormones, including various other wide-band medication, legal and otherwise, all in the name of profit. Is the main reason for such outbreaks. Couple this with the "free-trade" in such stuff, and you have the perfect scenario for a catastrophe.

Response:

Question:

Um, yes, …

SPAM ! — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Um, yes, I’m new to FF and I’m trying to find an online site that makes it really EASY to buy fly fishing gear. You know, really, really E-Z. Any ideas? –Steve

Response:

After a thorough and exhaustive search of my backyard and Alta Vista.Com, I came up with this: One dead bird One half of a semi-live earth worm Some fresh dog shit (first step find) and this:  www.e-zfly.com/ Opie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Um, yes, I’m new to FF and I’m trying to find an online site that makes it really EASY to buy fly fishing gear. You know, really, really E-Z. Any ideas? –Steve

Response:

Um, yes, I’m new to FF and I’m trying to find an online site that makes it really EASY to buy fly fishing gear. You know, really, really E-Z. Any ideas?

What are ya – an idjit? I typed "EZ" into AlteredVister and got five million hits, and the 248,094th one led me right to the source! You *must* be an idjit! Sheesh! Send an email to Louie’s grand daughter. I hear she’s a wizard with search engines… /daytripper (And stop spamming the group ;^)

Response:

Send an email to Louie’s grand daughter. I hear she’s a wizard with search engines… /daytripper (And stop spamming the group ;^)

sniff….sniff…..sniff…..nope, thet ain’t no spam.  Thet ther is a troll!

Response:

you will find what you want within the 1st 5 hits every time<g.

Unless, of course, those *are* your key words<g. — Charlie…

Response:

What are ya – an idjit? I typed "EZ" into AlteredVister and got five million hits, and the 248,094th one led me right to the source! You *must* be an idjit! Sheesh!

The key to an effective web search is not as much what you *include* in the search as what you *exclude*. In HotBot, for example, if you exclude the keywords "moist", "teen", "anal" and "eBay" you will find what you want within the 1st 5 hits every time<g. — Charlie…

Response:

you will find what you want within the 1st 5 hits every time<g. Unless, of course, those *are* your key words<g. — Charlie…

        you keep raising the bar, chocolat!  fabulous work. wayno, recovering from hysteria

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In HotBot, for example, if you exclude the keywords "moist", "teen", "anal" and "eBay" you will find what you want within the 1st 5 hits every time<g.

Regards, Jeff

Response:

In HotBot, for example, if you exclude the keywords "moist", "teen", "anal" and "eBay" you will find what you want within the 1st 5 hits every time<g.

I INCLUDE ONLY those keywords, and I find what I’m looking for 4 hits out of 5! Regards, Jeff

Response:

Steve:  Try www.TroutWorld.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Um, yes, I’m new to FF and I’m trying to find an online site that makes it really EASY to buy fly fishing gear. You know, really, really E-Z. Any ideas? –Steve

Response:

Whiff! Steeeerike One! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Steve:  Try www.TroutWorld.com Um, yes, I’m new to FF and I’m trying to find an online site that makes it really EASY to buy fly fishing gear. You know, really, really E-Z. Any ideas? –Steve

Response:

Question:

Is there every any type of fly fishing expo/shows in KY, Tennessee or West Virginia? I live in KY and want to start learning and trying fly fishing in the spring of 2000.  What would be the best way to start.  I already have a rod and reel with some flies, but dont know what to do with them or how. Please advise

Response:

Suggest you buy a little book called "Curtis Creek Manifesto" as a start. Its in an adult comic type format. Don’t be put off by this. Its a serious and great intro to the sport. Ideal for the self teacher. Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is there every any type of fly fishing expo/shows in KY, Tennessee or West Virginia? I live in KY and want to start learning and trying fly fishing in the spring of 2000.  What would be the best way to start.  I already have a rod and reel with some flies, but dont know what to do with them or how. Please advise

Response:

Library (books and videos)  Tackle shops (networking, local chapters of trout unlimited and other fly tying/fishing groups) reading this group and – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is there every any type of fly fishing expo/shows in KY, Tennessee or West Virginia? I live in KY and want to start learning and trying fly fishing in the spring of 2000.  What would be the best way to start.  I already have a rod and reel with some flies, but dont know what to do with them or how. Please advise

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Question:

Here are the facts. I am 70 years old and an avid fly fisherman. I am looking for a canoe I can fish from (stability), doesn`t weigh over 55 lbs (liftability by me). The canoe will mostly be used in lakes and ponds and large slow moving rivers. I am not budget conscious but do not want to have to give up a gold bar for this item. Please help

Response:

Get the lightest canoe you can. There are so many to chose from.

Response:

You know, I took the photograph, I am in the store enough (even help fill in), but I can’t for the life of me remember what kind of boat this is. It’s the top left yellow fiberglass canoe with the really wide beam, click on ‘canoes’ in the left frame on: http://members.aol.com/Froggie405/ It is really light, under 500.00, a price I would like to see on a fiberglass sea kayak… really light.  extremely stable.  pretty well made.  Roomy enough to fit that last fish that got away. The owner of the shop is on the list and could identify it for you. He could also prbably tell you where to find it in your area. — gabriel l romeu http://members.aol.com/romeug     studio furniture http://members.aol.com/romeugp    paintings, photos, prints, etc. http://members.xoom.com/gabrielR  a daily photo journal

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You know, I took the photograph, I am in the store enough (even help fill in), but I can’t for the life of me remember what kind of boat this is. It’s the top left yellow fiberglass canoe with the really wide beam, click on ‘canoes’ in the left frame on: http://members.aol.com/Froggie405/ It is really light, under 500.00, a price I would like to see on a fiberglass sea kayak… really light.  extremely stable.  pretty well made.  Roomy enough to fit that last fish that got away. The owner of the shop is on the list and could identify it for you. He could also prbably tell you where to find it in your area.

It might be the We-No-Nah Fisherman, the 14′ is good for one, 16′ for two.  Quite light in Tuf-Weave, lighter still in Kevlar.  Very stable but not terribly slow.  Great Outdoor Provision Company in North Carolina used to stock them.  Call the Raleigh location for the best selection. — Delete all the occurences of the letter q to reply. — Andrew (no q) Gooding

Response:

Here’s this years advice. For the weight you will have to get a kevlar boat. For initial stability for fly fishing I would suggest at least 36 inches wide. If it is only going to be used for day trips there is no point in anything over 16 feet long. There are lots of manufacturers that make something in this area. Sincerely, Carey Robson President – Recreational Canoeing Association of British Columbia Master Instructor http://www3.bc.sympatico.ca/CanoeBC     Here are the facts. I am 70 years old and an avid fly fisherman. I am     looking for a canoe I can fish from (stability), doesn`t weigh over 55     lbs (liftability by me). The canoe will mostly be used in lakes and     ponds and large slow moving rivers. I am not budget conscious but do not     want to have to give up a gold bar for this item. Please help

Response:

You may want to consider a sportspal canoe. They have some very stable stuff around 12 to 14 feet, excellent for fishing. If you don’t mind the price a kevlar is also a good canoe. One person wrote that you will want to keep it somewhat wide, that will help with the stability.

    Here are the facts. I am 70 years old and an avid fly fisherman. I am     looking for a canoe I can fish from (stability), doesn`t weigh over 55     lbs (liftability by me). The canoe will mostly be used in lakes and     ponds and large slow moving rivers. I am not budget conscious but do not     want to have to give up a gold bar for this item. Please help

Response:

Wardensworry, you need to check into Merrimack Canoes out of Crossville, Tenn. These are very beautiful  wood (ash&cherry) and fiberglas hand layup canoes And the company  will get you a boat pretty much whereever you are. Randy Pew is the owner(&Grandson of founder) and can be called at 931-484-4556. His boats aren’t cheap but once you see one you’ll wonder why they’re not more.They are  not for whitewater but flyfishing and tripping. Ask him about his Osprey and Tennessean, they sound like what you’re looking for.. I’m not a salesman or affiliated w/ Merrimack, just a friend of Randy’s and an admirer of his work.         Barnett

Response:

Depending upon where you are located, we carry the Northern Paddler line of glass canoes. They make a 10′6" model with a 40" beam. We have one in stock in yellow at $489.00. This would fit your stability and weight requirements. This is a solo boat. If interested, we are in Bordentown, NJ. Paint Island Canoe & Kayak. If you are in the east, there may be a dealer in your area. Give us a call. 609-324-8200 www.riversport.com/paintisland/

Response:

Question:

Any suggestions for good fly fishing in the Vernon, B.C  (Canada) area, will be visiting the area at the end of the month and wondered if there are any worthwhile spots, Cheers, Ken

Response:

There are hundreds of *excellent* areas – far too numerous to mention.   Vernon is in the Okanagan Valley which is surrounded by plateaus, mountains, etc., containing some of the best Kamloops rainbow fishing anywhere.  Any local fishing shop will be able to give you lists of what is in the area you are going to/passing through.  But you will need to travel out of Vernon by 1-2 hours in order to reach most of them. Good Luck. Don

Response:

: There are hundreds of *excellent* areas – far too numerous to mention.   : Vernon is in the Okanagan Valley which is surrounded by plateaus, : mountains, etc., containing some of the best Kamloops rainbow fishing : anywhere.  Any local fishing shop will be able to give you lists of what : is in the area you are going to/passing through.  But you will need to : travel out of Vernon by 1-2 hours in order to reach most of them. Some general ideas: 1. the area to the east of Kelowna, e.g. Dee or Beaver Lakes 2. the Thompson-Nicola plateau west of Kelowna, e.g Pennask, Hatheume, Headwaters, Logan etc Lakes 3. go east on the Monashee highway through Lumby and over to the Columbia and Kootenay watersheds; some possibilities might include Whatshan (sp) Lake, just north of the Fauquier/Needles ferry (west side) and Summit Lake, about a half-hour south of Nakusp on the road to New Denver 4. go north to Shuswap or Mara Lakes, or continue on to the Thompson at Kamloops 5. take the road (hiway 33?) between Kelowna and Rock Creek (via Beaverdell) and fish any section of the Kettle River that looks good (most of it will) 6. Go south to Vaseux Lake (between Okanagan Falls and Oliver) to fish the second-best bass lake (almost all LM’s) in BC; use a tube or canoe (no motors allowed) Most of these destinations, like Don says, are 1-2 hours from Vernon. Generally, the Okanagan does not boast a lot of stream fishing, but the lakes are pretty good. (born in Penticton Hospital and raised in Keremeos and Oliver) 3798 Woodland Drive     voice: (604) 368-9315 Trail, BC               data:  (604) 368-9341

Response:

Question:

Has anyone been hitting reds (or specks for that matter) in or around Corpus, the Laguna Madre or Aransas Pass lately? We have been getting skunked in the Laguna using Clousers and other attractors.         john koon

Response:

I was at Baffin Bay two weeks ago with our fly fishing club and the reds were really turned on there. No one using fly rods caught reds less than 27" long, and one member caught a 34-incher. The winds were howling that day – 40 knots, which made the fish much less wary, especially at 9 Mile Flat.

Response:

I’m going to fish Pine Creek, Slate Run and Cedar Run, PA for the first time from May 20-25.  If anyone has some good advice or anecdotes about the area, I’d really appreciate it.  Any hints on nymphing would be great. I’ve been camping in the area before and plan to camp up Slate Run at the campground.  Is it free? crowded?  I read Charles Meck’s book on PA trout streams and also plan to call the local fly fishing shop at Slate Run, which apparently has a hotline. Also, any thoughts on the Little Juniata? Thanks a million

Response:

Question:

Greetings, I’m moving to southeastern S. Dakota in a couple of weeks.  Any good suggestionsfor flyfishing opportunities to start with?  I’m not much into big water walleye spin fishing that I hear so much of in that part of the country.  Any trout? thanks,        curt Curt Anderson Dept. of Biological Sciences Northern Arizona University Flagstaff, AZ  86011

I think that there are some nice small streams in the Black Hills. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA

Response:

Curt, you’re along way from any trout.  Best try to find a good farm pond or small lake for some bluegills and bass.

How about trying Northeastern Nebraska. The State of Nebraska  has a page on fishing and hunting in the state. http:/adm-server.ngpc.state.ne.us/ I took a peek about six months ago and noticed that they stock streams in the northeastern part of Nebraska. Maybe South Dakota does somthing similar in tributaries to the Missouri?

Response:

Greetings, I’m moving to southeastern S. Dakota in a couple of weeks.  Any good suggestionsfor flyfishing opportunities to start with?  I’m not much into big water walleye spin fishing that I hear so much of in that part of the country.  Any trout? thanks,         curt Curt Anderson Dept. of Biological Sciences Northern Arizona University Flagstaff, AZ  86011

Response:

Question:

Hi – I’ll be going to visit folks in Sarasota area in late Feb.  Thought I’d take 3 days or so to go to the Keys for FF’g.  Any info would be appreciated, re:    guides?    gear?    fish?    patterns? I have a 9′ #8 rod , & a #8 line w/ sink tip.  Adequate? As I don’t have any set destination in mind, I’m open to any suggestions, heading out of Sarasota.  Thanks, Adam

Response:

Hi – I’ll be going to visit folks in Sarasota area in late Feb.  Thought I’d take 3 days or so to go to the Keys for FF’g.  Any info would be appreciated, re:

Here is some old posts that I sent to another fellow planning a trip to the Keys in Feb. I probably need to work up a bonefish/keys FAQ… Have fun, and mail me if you have further questions…  Alan Barrow  km4ba         | If a little knowledge….. As if Santa wasn’t good enough to me, I found out that I have business in Ft. Lauderdale in January. It looks like a two hour drive down to the end of the Florida peninsula according to my atlas, and I plan on scamming a couple of extra days to cast for bonefish.

I would allow a little extra time, it can take longer depending on traffic. The only way in or out of the keys is US-1, and it is mostly 2 lane for miles. (You can take card sound road for a nice alternate route coming back. About the same time, and you see a different part of N Key Largo.) I am a steelheader from Seattle who knows NOTHING< about bonefish except that my 8wt rpl will work, and the flies under the heading "bonefish" are small shrimpy weighted flies.

You ought to be ok, use as much of a WF line as you have. Make sure you have as much backing as your reel will hold. Nevertheless, the thought of ‘wading the flats’ wearing shorts in January is too much to resist for someone from latitude 47.

And you can do it, you just have to be a bit trickier during winter time. The bonefish are still there, they just will not come onto the flats until the water warms up. I would plan on fishing mid-day if the night time temp is below 70. The flats will be too cold in the AM, but will warm up. I am groveling for information! (fishing dates: Jan 14th – 16th)

Here are some posts I have made earlier. Not all will be relevant, but most info should be useful. I grew up down there, and spend 2-3 weeks a year flats fishing in the upper Keys. My brother works in Key Largo and Key West about half of the time, and he gets me current fishing reports. Both he and I have flats boats, and are into flyfishing for bonefish and tarpon. Have fun! Call me if you have questions… 404/850-2644  Alan Barrow  km4ba         | If a little knowledge….. Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing Some friends and I, serious fly fisherman all, are thinking about going to the Florida Keys to do some bonefishing (and maybe tarpon, permit, etc.)  this winter.  Never having done this before, I have scads of questions: * Is end of December/beginning of January a good time?

Bones are there year round. They will not come up onto the flats if the water temp is too cold. Also wind is more likely, and impacts the number of "fishable" (sight fishing) days. However, the largest bonefish are usually caught in winter. I have hooked (not landed) very big bonefish during XMAS trips last year. Tarpon migrate, and are not in the Keys in large quantities until May/June. There are year round Tarpon spots in the Keys ( and Miami) but it is usually deep water. (Bridges/channels, etc) I consider June/July the best time all around for fishing in the Keys. I still fish year all seasons, because even "off season" the fishing is better than most places I know. But for fly fisherman, winter may be less desirable. Redfish are available year round, as are sharks and barracudas. Many fly types are sight fishing for big ‘Cudas during winter when it the flats are too cold for bonefish. * Where are the good spots in the keys?  Should we try Grand Bahama or  Belize instead?

My conclusion is that if you want numbers and lot’s of action, hit the bahamas, Christmas Island (near Hawaii), or costa rica. However, If you want big fish on a regular basis, Miami down to Marathon for bonefish is hard to beat. For Tarpon, Boca Grande pass in June is fantastic. Not the same as sight fishing the flats edges for tarpon in the Keys, but killer in a different fashion. Tarpon are all around florida mid year, so there are many good places for them. The keys are ideal due to: Big Bonefish, good tarpon, great Permit, OK redfish, great trout, great dolphin close in (the fish). The water is great for sight fishing in the Keys. Other parts of Fla are less "clear". The Bahamas are tough to beat in water clarity. * Know any good guides/outfitters?

I have not used a guide for 3 years, but recommend using one until you become proficient in finding fish yourself. Even then, guides will put you onto more fish. * Will I need my own equipment or can I rent?

I have not seen much rental equipment. If you have a guide, he will provide top notch equipment. I hope you have a good time! Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing I will be on Islamorada from February 10-17 of this year.  I plan to do some inshore fishing, and am wondering if this is a particularly "hot" time for specific fish. Can anyone give me some help? I’ll be

Entirely dependant on water temperature. (Wind may also be an issue) Some of the largest bonefish are caught in "winter" (dec-feb). You may also go all day without seeing a fish on a flat. A guide is a big win here. They may know when/where fish may make an appearence. We have found that "normal" behavior does not apply. (normal for bonefish is: fish move on flat with low incoming tide.) Problem is that with colder water temp, at may be midday before the water warms up enough. Thus traditional early morning/late evening "best times" may not apply. Barracuda are found (and fished for) on the flats in the winter. Any other time, these guys are almost impossible to catch. (Except when a big bonefish is about to nail your shrimp/lure) Also sharks on the flats can be fun. Tarpon are pretty much somewhere else, except for a few "bridge" types that hang around year round. Redfish and trout in the backcountry (Fla Bay, as opposed to the Atlantic) should also be a good option. (Not as exciting as bonefish, but still pretty good) I believe offshore is pretty good this time of year. (Sailfish, grouper, Kings, snapper, etc) out for a full day, and would like to spend about half the day fishing purely for sport (i.e. tarpon, bonefish, maybe permit) and half the day fishing for something I can cook up afterwards. Is this possible?

Bonefish or permit then hit backcountry for redfish or trout. I have limited out on big trout within 30 min skiff ride from Islamorada. (By the way, you will be "in" Islamorada, the city. You will be "on" upper or lower matacumbe. Just a "nit" :- ) Any suggestions would be appreciated. I’d like to call up and reserve a guide ahead of time.

We had good luck with Jamie Brodie, who booked out of Holiday Isle. I could get other names from Fla Sportsman if needed. Secondly, since I can’t afford a guide every day I’m there, but would like to do some fishing most of the days I’m there, I’m wondering if anyone can give me advice about wading/shore fishing. I’ll cast for

This is how we got started. Harry Harris park up in key largo (20 min N of Islamorada) is a good flat to wade for bonefish. Also flats off the bridges at shell and indian key ( Just S of Islamorada. ) are good. If you see brown bottom that you can get too from your hotel, etc. I would give it a try. Wear tennis shoes, or booties. (I use "aquasox" as well) Be aware of stingrays. (Some say to shuffle. I do if I cannot see the bottom very clearly. I have found if the bottom is hard enough to wade, the stingrays do not bury themselves. They are also very spooky, and will avoid you.) Also bridge fishing all along that area is good. You can also rent a boat. (not cheap, but cheaper than a guide.) Plan on using it mainly to get too flats. Do not try to take it on the flats, as you will get stuck unless it is very high tide. You will not have a pole anyway. Even with our flat’s boats, we wade alot. (during low tide) anything, I just don’t know what’s there to cast to, or what to cast to whatever is there (to state a simple point in a fairly unruly way).

On the flats you will see:         stingrays- do not try to catch them. Look for bonefish/jack         following them. try to cast on the back of any stingray you see.         Many times you will not see the fish following them. Best sign         that bonefish are on the flats. Stingrays are your friend.         Bonefish- swim most in straight lines. best case is to find them         tailing in low water. (why wading is good). You may see one or a         dozen. Very spooky. Cast in front of them, let them swim up on         your lure/bait.         Permit- The most spooky. look for "sickle" fin sticking out of         water.         Baracuda- usually loitering around. Moving very slowly, then         disappears faster than your eye can follow. If you see a fish,         and it does not move 5-10 feet in a few seconds, then it is probably         a barracuda. cast past it 10 feet in front of it. reel as fast         as you can. They strike instinctively.         Jack- Usually you do not see them, but catch them by accident.         can get pretty big, fights almost as good as a bonefish. (Just         missing the

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Question:

Has anyone heard if Saltwater Flyfishing Magazine (not Flyfishing in Saltwater) has started to publish again?  Someone told me that they recently received another issue. Marshall Cutchin

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Yes, the SFF magazine resumes its business, I received my subscription couple weeks back after missing couple issues. To you northeast flyfishers, there is a good article on flat fishing on the Cape Cod area. Thi Nguyen

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Has anyone heard if Saltwater Flyfishing Magazine (not Flyfishing in Saltwater) has started to publish again?  Someone told me that they recently received another issue. Marshall Cutchin

Yep…though I havent had a chance to talk with Barbera Fine yet, they seem to be up and running again. I got an issue last saturday out of the blue.

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Has anyone heard if Saltwater Flyfishing Magazine (not Flyfishing in Saltwater) has started to publish again?  Someone told me that they recently received another issue.

I rcv’d an issue as well. In the Editor’s comments, they mentioned the outage, and that they are back in business again with a new publisher. Good news, I would say!  Alan Barrow  km4ba         | If a little knowledge…..

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