Question:

 A light rain throughout could result in an awesome trip, The Finn

Cool, changing clothes and heading out now!!! WOO WOOOOO! — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply

Response:

Actually, I think it is T.S. Eliot, but could easily have been used by others. Mike

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Here I am, an old man in a dry month, Being read to by a boy, waiting for rain" I just read two books lately & damned if I can remember which one that (great) story was out of.    I’m thinking Jerry Dennis.   Do I win? Joe F.

Response:

Actually, I think it is T.S. Eliot, but could easily have been used by others.

It’s entirely possible that the story I’m thinking of quoted Eliot, & I completely ignored the reference.   Now I gotta go find where I saw it. Joe F.

Response:

 By the way,  is there game plan for fishing on Friday, in case I get a few hours…

— Frank Reid Reverse email to reply

Response:

Bring your rods and flies with you to Bal’more.  We can do an afternoon on the Patapsco. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply

Response:

"Frank Reid" Are there fall backs in case Isadore comes north (I know it will)?

http://forecast.accuweather.com/adcbin/local_index.asp?thisZip=16832&… Go&nav=home Accuweather says the forecast for Friday in Coburn is:  Pouring Rain, windy and 68 degrees.  God, I hope this doesn’t blow out the river.  At least I won’t be in my tent.  DavePA has kindly offered up a bunk in his cabin. Time to go finish packing the truck. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply

Response:

If the Creek is as low as I think it is, it will clear up fast.  The trouble we had this spring is that it was soo high, it was washing the banks into the creek, bringing the mud/silt with it.  It may actually work in your favor, as the reports were indicating low and clear conditions, which can be very tough anywhere, an inch of rain mmay be perfect.  A light rain throughout could result in an awesome trip, The Finn

"Frank Reid" Are there fall backs in case Isadore comes north (I know it will)?

http://forecast.accuweather.com/adcbin/local_index.asp?thisZip=16832&… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Go&nav=home Accuweather says the forecast for Friday in Coburn is:  Pouring Rain, windy and 68 degrees.  God, I hope this doesn’t blow out the river.  At least I won’t be in my tent.  DavePA has kindly offered up a bunk in his cabin. Time to go finish packing the truck. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply

Response:

Sorry you can’t make it Vince would have been nice to see you again. But then May will be here soon and you will be up to see us i am sure.  Beer ??? we don’t need no stinking beer wraps whos got the wraps??? we need wraps lots of wraps. See ya all in a couple of days.                    Handyman Mike           Standing in a river waving a stick

Response:

Arriving Wednesday ’round supper-time. Will bring Bass,  Amber/Bock something brown, Vermouth, Gin and olives…and a finger. ..john

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Who’s bringing the beer?  Who else will be there?  Are there fall backs in case Isadore comes north (I know it will)?  Mr. Makela, aka The Nymph Master, what will be the nymph of choice?  Who’s bringing the beer?  Is there a lobster night this Thursday?  Anyone gonna be there?  Who’s bringing the beer? — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply

Response:

Very envious of you guys!  I would love to be there but I’m buried in a refueling outage.  With the weather looking good, temperatures perfect, and trout boxs full, I really hate to miss this one.  Right now I’m off Saturdays only and working 6/12’s.  Oh well, all the better to visit the fly fishing show in January!!  I am sneaking out October 5-7 for a little side trip but even that was tough to get approved! Wayne to fish is human….to release Divine!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Who’s bringing the beer?  Who else will be there?  Are there fall backs in case Isadore comes north (I know it will)?  Mr. Makela, aka The Nymph Master, what will be the nymph of choice?  Who’s bringing the beer?  Is there a lobster night this Thursday?  Anyone gonna be there?  Who’s bringing the beer?

Response:

I have yet to unlock the locks on my chains, so getting up there is mere impossible for this weekend,  hell I’m still trying to find time to finish my trip report from May.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Frank asks the essential questions: Who’s bringing the beer? You are…..4 cases of Yeungling should suffice. Who else will be there? Possibles include: myself, Mike Shaw, asadi, Vince Norris, Mark Faulkner, DavePA, Lefty Kreh(just checking if you were still awake) and George Gherke. Mr. Makela, aka The Nymph Master, what will be the nymph of choice? the Nymph Master has been virtually unreachable, as he is chained to his new desk. Stoneflies always work, Pheasant Tails and Caddis Pupae are an idea as well. Who’s bringing the beer? we covered this one Is there a lobster night this Thursday? no clue, we could call the Millheim, but are basically lazy and shiftless, so will find out then. Who’s bringing the beer? alright, I will stop for some Lagers on the way up Weds night.                               Tom

Response:

Frank!!! What’s happenin!! I have to make a business trip down to Baltimore (Inner Harbor-Wyndham) for an  industry conference on September 29th-October 4th, HL7 data protocol conference (a.k.a. The Geek Conference – should be plenty of trekkies mixed in).  This makes it very interesting in the area of getting the wife to let me out to play, since she will inherit the madness of the two youngyens while I am in Baltimore those 5 days. As a last ditch effort, I’m actually trying to schedule a client stop in the area on Friday,  but it’s not looking too good.  If I make it up, it will only be for the day.  The other possibility may be Sunday, as a side trip on the way to Baltimore, but I assume most attendees will be gone by then. Just as a warning, my luck this year has been horrendous weather-wise whenever I get out to fish, so you may want to make sure you have the inflatable boat in the tent on Thursday/Friday night.  In addition to the obvious 2nd annual Clave,  I have seen 15 foot waves at Boca Grande Pass (another trip report yet posted concerning an unsuccessful/successful outing ending in a 250 lbr), and severe drought on the local streams.  When I was in the Outer Banks earlier this year, where it hadn’t rained for weeks, it decided to rain (w/ near gale force wind) on the two days I had to fish. I may leave the rod home, just to keep from destroying everyone else’s trip. Let’s see, Friday-Sunday is probably the time both of the remnants from ISIDORE and LILLI will converge over central Pennsylvania. Talk to ya, The Finn "Here I am, an old man in a dry month, Being read to by a boy, waiting for rain"

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Who’s bringing the beer?  Who else will be there?  Are there fall backs in case Isadore comes north (I know it will)?  Mr. Makela, aka The Nymph Master, what will be the nymph of choice?  Who’s bringing the beer?  Is there a lobster night this Thursday?  Anyone gonna be there?  Who’s bringing the beer? — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply

Response:

"Here I am, an old man in a dry month, Being read to by a boy, waiting for rain"

I just read two books lately & damned if I can remember which one that (great) story was out of.    I’m thinking Jerry Dennis.   Do I win? Joe F.

Response:

By the way,  is there game plan for fishing on Friday, in case I get a few hours…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is there a lobster night this Thursday? no clue, we could call the Millheim, but are basically lazy and shiftless, so will find out then.                               Tom Called the Millheim.  No dice on the lobster.  It is seafood night on Thursday. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply

Response:

Is there a lobster night this Thursday? no clue, we could call the Millheim, but are basically lazy and shiftless, so will find out then.                               Tom

Called the Millheim.  No dice on the lobster.  It is seafood night on Thursday. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply

Response:

Frank asks the essential questions: Who’s bringing the beer? You are…..4 cases of Yeungling should suffice. Who else will be there? Possibles include: myself, Mike Shaw, asadi, Vince Norris, Mark Faulkner, DavePA, Lefty Kreh(just checking if you were still awake) and George Gherke.

I had planned to bring a supply of Chesterfield Ale; it seemed to go over pretty well on previous occasions. But now, I’m sorry to say, I can’t come.  My daughter has announced she and her family will be arriving Thursday for a long weekend.  I can’t very well bug out because they don’t get here that often. She works in a hospital and getting a weekend off is not easy. I phoned Mark Faulkner a few days ago to remind him, but got only a recorded message.  He hasn’t returned the call so I don’t know if he plans to come. Best wishes to all for a superduper time! vince

Response:

Who’s bringing the beer?  Who else will be there?  Are there fall backs in case Isadore comes north (I know it will)?  Mr. Makela, aka The Nymph Master, what will be the nymph of choice?  Who’s bringing the beer?  Is there a lobster night this Thursday?  Anyone gonna be there?  Who’s bringing the beer? — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply

Response:

Frank asks the essential questions: Who’s bringing the beer?

You are…..4 cases of Yeungling should suffice. Who else will be there?

Possibles include: myself, Mike Shaw, asadi, Vince Norris, Mark Faulkner, DavePA, Lefty Kreh(just checking if you were still awake) and George Gherke. Mr. Makela, aka The Nymph Master, what will be the nymph of choice?

the Nymph Master has been virtually unreachable, as he is chained to his new desk. Stoneflies always work, Pheasant Tails and Caddis Pupae are an idea as well. Who’s bringing the beer?

we covered this one Is there a lobster night this Thursday?

no clue, we could call the Millheim, but are basically lazy and shiftless, so will find out then. Who’s bringing the beer?

alright, I will stop for some Lagers on the way up Weds night.                               Tom

Response:

Question:

Hi folks, Just wondered if someone can comment on the choice of an outboard engine vs. an I/O on a 23-25′ boat, to be used in the coastal waters of west central Florida.  Combination of use will be both bay & off-shore fishing, off-shore diving, and short-medium range cruising with at least two couples. I’m a long-time fan of Mercruiser I/Os, having owned several and had very little trouble with them.  A few questions about outboards: 1) I’ve heard that outboard technology has come a long way, and the newer engines are quieter and more fuel effecient, correct? 2) Are the outboards more expensive to maintain? 3) Is the net-net performance about the same given the same hosepower on an outboard and I/O? 4 Is there a clear advantage with any particular brand of outboard nowadays? 5) Should we look for any specific year models, i.e. 1997 or newer for example? All thoughts appreciated.  Thanks. Patrick

Response:

Just wondered if someone can comment on the choice of an outboard engine vs. an I/O on a 23-25′ boat, to be used in the coastal waters of west central Florida. A few questions about outboards: 1) I’ve heard that outboard technology has come a long way, and the newer engines are quieter and more fuel effecient, correct?

That is correct, especially with the 4 stroke motors. 2) Are the outboards more expensive to maintain?

Probably even or cheaper. 3) Is the net-net performance about the same given the same hosepower on an outboard and I/O?

Net is higher since you have a higher power to weight ratio. 4 Is there a clear advantage with any particular brand of outboard nowadays?

I don’t see any clear advantages, all the manufacturers have their thing that only they do.  Personnally my best experiences for reliability have been with Yamaha and performance wih Mercury, thou Honda has some interesting cam technology and Suzuki has the best Warrantee.  Never been an OMC fan myself but that doesn’t really mean much. 5) Should we look for any specific year models, i.e. 1997 or newer for example?

Can’t help you there, but I’m sure there will be someone to tell you what not to buy. http://hometown.aol.com/hlaviation/

Response:

Hi Patrick, With a boat that size I guess that the outboard choices would be the new Yamaha and Honda 200-225hp 4 strokes? In a Mercruiser they use mostly GM V8s now for 200hp+? I know that fisherman like the outboards because there is more room in the rear of the boat for fishing? The ultimate power is a diesel in a boat that size, but it is $$$$. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi folks, Just wondered if someone can comment on the choice of an outboard engine vs. an I/O on a 23-25′ boat, to be used in the coastal waters of west central Florida.  Combination of use will be both bay & off-shore fishing, off-shore diving, and short-medium range cruising with at least two couples. I’m a long-time fan of Mercruiser I/Os, having owned several and had very little trouble with them.  A few questions about outboards: 1) I’ve heard that outboard technology has come a long way, and the newer engines are quieter and more fuel effecient, correct? 2) Are the outboards more expensive to maintain? 3) Is the net-net performance about the same given the same hosepower on an outboard and I/O? 4 Is there a clear advantage with any particular brand of outboard nowadays? 5) Should we look for any specific year models, i.e. 1997 or newer for example? All thoughts appreciated.  Thanks. Patrick

Response:

Question:

June is prime time, but  May could be OK too if it is not too early in the month. I know August sucks. Get on Google and find someone up there to email? — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I hope to hit the Kamloops area of B.C. early in the season in 2002. I anticipate ice-out will occur about May, early for lower elevations and later for higher elevations. I would appreciate any advice, hints, locations of hot lakes, comments on fishing this time of year, etc.

Response:

Check out some of the local fly shops when you are there, most will help you out. I am trying to remember the names of a few I particularly liked, but they escape me. (I know exactly how to get to one where the owner was particlarly helpful, but I can’t remember the name of the shop.) Expect to use midges, scuds, leeches, or other early season food imitations. You might keep an eye on the sportfishing BC forum at http://www.sportfishingbc.com/forum/ or the Fishing BC forum http://www.fishbc.com/cgi-bin/board/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&nu… I hope this helps. I am planning on being in the areq in mid-April or early May myself. Sometimes I can get some fishing in, sometimes not. Hope this helps Tim Lysyk

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I hope to hit the Kamloops area of B.C. early in the season in 2002. I anticipate ice-out will occur about May, early for lower elevations and later for higher elevations. I would appreciate any advice, hints, locations of hot lakes, comments on fishing this time of year, etc.

Response:

Some lakes are open in April or even late March. Stump, Six Mile, Jocko and White are known for long a open season and provide fishing before the 1st of May.  Concentrate on lakes in the 3000 foot elevation range.Paul Lake is within an easy drive of Kamloops and is a lake at the proper elevation for that time of year. Early in the season blood worms, leech, corixa and chironmids are the primary hatch. If the weather is mild or warm chironmid hatches can be prolific. Chironomids are the most consistent hacth in May and into early June. Cold weather fronts will negatively effect the fishing. Towards the end of the month it is possible to hit excellent hatches or callibaetis mayflies and even damsels in some lower lakes. All will depend on the timing of ice free conditions and if there is a cold or warm spring. The worst timing would be to fish a lake in turnover, the best immediately after ice off. Yosh’s tackle in Kamloops is a good tackle store or the Logan Lake fly shop. Ask for Georgi at Logan Lake. The best discussion forum is at fishbc.com. Many area residents, guides and tackle shop jockeys frequent this site and are more than willing to provide info and advice. be sure to get as up to date information as possible before you go and adjust your fishing locale accordingly.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I hope to hit the Kamloops area of B.C. early in the season in 2002. I anticipate ice-out will occur about May, early for lower elevations and later for higher elevations. I would appreciate any advice, hints, locations of hot lakes, comments on fishing this time of year, etc.

Response:

I hope to hit the Kamloops area of B.C. early in the season in 2002. I anticipate ice-out will occur about May, early for lower elevations and later for higher elevations. I would appreciate any advice, hints, locations of hot lakes, comments on fishing this time of year, etc.

Response:

Give Georgi Abbot of the Logan Lake Fly Shop and email. She’s happy to Don – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I hope to hit the Kamloops area of B.C. early in the season in 2002. I anticipate ice-out will occur about May, early for lower elevations and later for higher elevations. I would appreciate any advice, hints, locations of hot lakes, comments on fishing this time of year, etc.

Response:

Question:

wish ‘em luck Peter

An article in The Electronic Telegraph, a London e-paper, has an article on the SAS unit.  Also mentioned was the deployment of Tornados to the "little" military exercise in Oman, with about 20,000 people.  I don’t think most people, on either side, are aware of the size of the wave about to break. Wayne to fish is human….to release Divine!

Response:

An SAS group was active for a brief time in South Yemen a few years ago (when there were *two* Yemens – now there is one).  These folks, like most shadow warriors are seldom seen, heard about only in rumor, and you surely wouldn’t want to wake up with them standing by your bed, if you are on the task list. This will likely be the sharpest edge of that terrible swift sword. Tom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Peter Collin: SAS = ? Special Air Service.  Roots from WWII.  It’s the Kippers’ answer to our SEALS, Special Forces, Rangers, etc.  Damn fine bunch even if they are Brits!  <g Dave According to the Washington Post, they’ve been training in the Pakistani mountains for the past five years and before that, with the Pathan warriors against the Soviets.  If they follow standard SAS ops, most will speak the local language – they’ll concentrate on recon, demolition, and ambush; vectoring in a larger force for the capture and covering it on the extraction.  Then they’ll disappear again and we’ll probably never hear about their contribution. If anyone wants to get an inkling of current SAS ops, check out Andy McNab’s "Bravo Two Zero" about the Gulf War.  An 8 man SAS patrol lead by McNab on a Scud busting mission, was dropped inadvertently in the middle of two Iraqi divisions.  Their mission compromised right from the start, they made a 110 mile escape and evasion to the Syrian border.  One made it, three died (two from exposure) and four were captured at the Euphrates River, the border with Syria.  On the way, it was estimated that they took out over 250 Iraqi soldiers. They were started in WWII by David Stirling, operating in the desert, doing recon and blowing up Rommel’s airplanes and ammunition dumps. The old TV series Rat Patrol was, as is usual for Hollywood, stolen from SAS service history.  The series does give some sense of what their WWII desert ops were like.  Hitler gave orders that any captured SAS soldiers were to be executed immediately as they were too dangerous to be left alive. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

The British SAS were used in the Iranian embassy siege in London a few years ago.  They went in from the roof and balcony and killed all, but one, of hostage takers.  The stroy goes that when they realised one of the hostage takers was hiding among the hostages outside the embassy, they went out to drag him inside to kill him.  Hostages pleaded for his life to be spared. He is serving life in jail. They took out IRA members in Gibraltar, leaving the bodies on the road. There was accusations of a "shoot-to-kill" policy. They turn up in many places where justice, law and order fails to take hold.  For example, an IRA man was found not guilty at the Old Bailey (Central Criminal Court, London) despite overwhelming evidence.  A few weeks later, he was shot dead, along with his mates, in a Northern Ireland churchyard, having just robbed a bank. The SAS are based at Hereford.  Its best to say "Sir" to anyone you speak to in Hereford. Bobby Bewl —

I haven’t seen it mentioned on CNN but the Toronto Sun has reported a fire fight between a Taliban force and an SAS recon patrol. Apparently, they’ve been in country for nearly a week, looking for bin Laden. wish ‘em luck Peter Visit The Streamer Page at

http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

and if you think *they’re* tough, wait ’til they get a whiff of the 24th foot…the south wales borderers.

Any relation to the 24th Yorkshire Foot and Mouth? Bobby

Response:

has long been the unwritten rule that one does NOT write about one’s life in the Regiment

Then this article, in yesterday’s Sunday Times, will not have gone down very well: www.sunday-times.co.uk/news/pages/sti/2001/09/23/stiusausa02023.html "Tom Carew, an SAS soldier who helped turn Afghanistan’s fighters into an effective modern guerrilla force, on the daunting task facing allied troops in the air or on the ground.  My life with the mujaheddin." — Phil Jones

Response:

They were started in WWII by David Stirling, operating in the desert, doing recon and blowing up Rommel’s airplanes and ammunition dumps. I was in high school during WW II, but I remember reading about British "Commandos," which I vaguely recall was a word taken from a Dutch word "commando" used during the Boer War. Was "Commandos " another name for the SAS? vince norris

In WWII, the Commandos were Royal Marines whereas the SAS were drawn mostly from the army and RAF.  The Commandos specialized in amphibious raids while the SAS, as the name suggests, used airborne and overland approaches. There is a Royal Marine version of the SAS called the SBS (Special Boat Squadron) that is even more clandestine than the SAS (and if you ask a Marine – tougher.)  Just to confuse matters, the SAS has a Boat Troop that operates similarly to the SBS while the SBS also operates from naval helicopters.  Both the SAS and the SBS originated in WWII. http://business.thisisnorthscotland.co.uk/Nsco/a/r/m/armedforces/mari… http://www.britains-smallwars.com/main/SBS.htm Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

If there is a reasonably accurate account of the SAS in book form or official history, I woiuld like to add a copy to our Museum’s library.  We currently have a little material from W.W.II North African campaigns in the collection including some Desert Rats material.  Our collection includes significant material from England and Commonwealth counries from both World Wars and the Cold War.  We hold the largest ANZAC collection in the US and need to expand input from the British. Wayne to fish is human….to release Divine!!

Response:

They were started in WWII by David Stirling, operating in the desert, doing recon and blowing up Rommel’s airplanes and ammunition dumps.

I was in high school during WW II, but I remember reading about British "Commandos," which I vaguely recall was a word taken from a Dutch word "commando" used during the Boer War. Was "Commandos " another name for the SAS? vince norris

Response:

Thanks for getting back to us.  BTW, there are a number of regiment histories out there – preferences? Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Thanks for getting back to us.  BTW, there are a number of regiment histories out there – preferences?

One that was semi-officially sanctioned by the Regiment several years ago was "Who Dares Wins" by Tony Geraghty.  It is pretty factual, although obviously just a selection of stuff that can be made public.  Of interest is the fact that Tony Geraghty, an ex-Territorial (Reserve) paratrooper and journalist wrote a book about Northern Ireland only a couple of years ago and got himself arrested for spilling a few too many beans.  His earlier book mentioned above, is pretty accurate up to the Gulf War. There are numerous others, but most are either glamourizing tales of bravado written with an eye to the dollars, or semi-political works that try to make the authors’ pet point. The more accurate books are restricted circulation ones within the SAS Association or Special Forces Club library. There is one by Ken Connor, a long-time member of the Regiment, called "Ghost" I think from memory – it’s not too bad, but he does push his own barrow a fair bit, and has a slightly jaundiced view of things.  Some say he was in there too long.  I had just under 6 years in, and I saw enough to make me appreciate all the good things in life, and also to recognize what’s REALLY important in life as opposed to what society and peer- pressure try to tell us is important.  That’s why I enjoy fly-fishing! (Nifty, cunning return to topic there – heheh — NightStalker Email addy is nightstalker87 at hot(you know).com

Response:

British special forces (Special Air Service) – originated during WW II as a raiding force to fight Rommel’s forces in Africa, and obviously it stuck together.  The man who started it (Stirling) was knighted about 10 years ago I believe.

Just for the record, he was knighted back in the 1980s, and he died in 1991, just a few months before the Regiment’s jubilee (50th) birthday celebrations, which I attended and was marked by a touch of sadness that the founder had not quite made it. — NightStalker Email addy is nightstalker87 at hot(you know).com

Response:

I’m aware that McNab’s book hasn’t received the best of reviews from his former associates, though to the best of my knowledge, the 250 number came from other sources, not McNab.  Having had a former SAS Flt. Lt. as a training officer, I know about their reticence regarding any sort of publicity.  So I wonder whether the regiment’s dislike of the book comes from perceived inaccuracies in the story or the fact that McNab has profited from matters that should not have been made public.

Both.  The inaccuracies are real and grossly exaggerated.  It’s interesting that no mention of these huge body counts was made in the video-taped debriefings of both ‘McNab’ or ‘Ryan’.  And the other reason for the dislike of the books is that has long been the unwritten rule that one does NOT write about one’s life in the Regiment.  It’s for this reason that the two writers mentioned are now persona non grata in the Regiment and its Association.  Mind you – I’m sure they’re crying all the way to the bank…. (Cultural information note to the U.S. contingent in the ROFFian Universe.)  Over the past few decades the British and especially the Canadians have developed the bad habit of viciously tearing down their heros as soon as they’ve elevated them.  While it’s always wise to view claims to heroism with a clear eye, the counter-claims from these sources should be viewed, at the very least, the same way.

Just to balance the accounts a bit – let me just say that several ex- members of the Regiment HAVE written books that are held in much higher esteem than the ‘McNab’ and ‘Ryan’ books, but these are (a) factual, (b) usually limited distribution through the Association, and (c) not glorifying or exaggerating any deeds or misdeeds. Knocking down heroes is a peculiar sport, but in the opinion of most members and ex-members of the Regiment, neither ‘McNab’ or ‘Ryan’ were heroes – they just did a bloody good E + E (escape and evasion) effort, then tried to cash in on this stuffed up patrol and make ‘heroes’ out of themselves. — NightStalker Email addy is nightstalker87 at hot(you know).com

Response:

As a (shhh!) ex-member of the said regiment, back in the 60’s, allow me, as a long-time lurker here, to say a couple of words.  Andy ‘McNab’’s book is hugely exaggerated, especially about the number of Iraquis they allegedly ‘took out’ on the patrol which was a total stuff-up from day one.  There is another book about the same patrol, called "The One That Got Away" by Chris ‘Ryan’ (all pseudonyms) that is even more exaggerated and self-grandising. Now I’ll just fade silently back into "lurker-dom"

I’m aware that McNab’s book hasn’t received the best of reviews from his former associates, though to the best of my knowledge, the 250 number came from other sources, not McNab.  Having had a former SAS Flt. Lt. as a training officer, I know about their reticence regarding any sort of publicity.  So I wonder whether the regiment’s dislike of the book comes from perceived inaccuracies in the story or the fact that McNab has profited from matters that should not have been made public. (Cultural information note to the U.S. contingent in the ROFFian Universe.)  Over the past few decades the British and especially the Canadians have developed the bad habit of viciously tearing down their heros as soon as they’ve elevated them.  While it’s always wise to view claims to heroism with a clear eye, the counter-claims from these sources should be viewed, at the very least, the same way. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

SAS = ?

British special forces (Special Air Service) – originated during WW II as a raiding force to fight Rommel’s forces in Africa, and obviously it stuck together.  The man who started it (Stirling) was knighted about 10 years ago I believe. By the way, at one point Stirling was a POW in Colditz Castle, which was the inspiration for the computer game that "started it all" (yes, a shooter game that preceded Doom) – Castle Wolfenstein.  (There was also a board game called "Escape From Colditz".)  A later version of the computer game was "Spear of Destiny", where a commando was sent in to retrieve the spear that pierced the side of Christ, which was supposedly being kept by Himmler in the belief that Nazi armies would be invincible while it was in their possession (in keeping with his occult leanings.)  "Return to Castle Wolfenstein" is due out this fall, for more Nazi-killing goodness.  Boy is this OT.

Response:

An SAS group was active for a brief time in South Yemen a few years ago (when there were *two* Yemens – now there is one).  These folks, like most shadow warriors are seldom seen, heard about only in rumor, and you surely wouldn’t want to wake up with them standing by your bed, if you are on the task list. This will likely be the sharpest edge of that terrible swift sword. Tom

I was involved in that little lot.  It was in the Radfan mountains in the mid-60s, (1966 to be exact) the mountain range between what was then South Yemen and the Protectorate of Aden, as the Brits were withdrawing from Aden, we were basically covering their collective backsides.  The terrain there was like the flipside of the moon, about 50degrees Celsius by day, and sub-zero at night, with rocks underfoot that could cut through a pair of tough desert boots in no time. Special Air Service.  Roots from WWII.  It’s the Kippers’ answer to our SEALS, Special Forces, Rangers, etc.  Damn fine bunch even if they are Brits!  <g Dave

One small difference of opinion if I may – the SEALs were the USA’s answer to the SAS, not the other way around  The whole idea of Special FOrces, where small teams of highly-trained individuals could wreak more havoc than a company of grunts, originated in the fertile minds of David Stirling, his brother Bill Stirling, Paddy Maine, Jock Lewis, and a few others in 1942. According to the Washington Post, they’ve been training in the Pakistani mountains for the past five years and before that, with the Pathan warriors against the Soviets.  If they follow standard SAS ops, most will speak the local language – they’ll concentrate on recon, demolition, and ambush; vectoring in a larger force for the capture and covering it on the extraction.  Then they’ll disappear again and we’ll probably never hear about their contribution.

22SAS has had a very long involvement in the middle east, and particularly in desert terrain, including Aden as above, Oman (southern area called Dhofar) etc etc, and the regiment was actually started in the northern deserts of Africa in 1942.  They are long-time masters of ‘low- intensity’ campaigns, fighting guerilla tactics and winning hearts and minds as well as using all sorts of means to stay undetected deep behind enemy lines and across borders.  They are primarily a recon and special ops outfit rather than front-line engagement troops. If anyone wants to get an inkling of current SAS ops, check out Andy McNab’s "Bravo Two Zero" about the Gulf War.  An 8 man SAS patrol lead by McNab on a Scud busting mission, was dropped inadvertently in the middle of two Iraqi divisions.  Their mission compromised right from the start, they made a 110 mile escape and evasion to the Syrian border.  One made it, three died (two from exposure) and four were captured at the Euphrates River, the border with Syria.  On the way, it was estimated that they took out over 250 Iraqi soldiers. They were started in WWII by David Stirling, operating in the desert, doing recon and blowing up Rommel’s airplanes and ammunition dumps. The old TV series Rat Patrol was, as is usual for Hollywood, stolen from SAS service history.  The series does give some sense of what

As a (shhh!) ex-member of the said regiment, back in the 60’s, allow me, as a long-time lurker here, to say a couple of words.  Andy ‘McNab’’s book is hugely exaggerated, especially about the number of Iraquis they allegedly ‘took out’ on the patrol which was a total stuff-up from day one.  There is another book about the same patrol, called "The One That Got Away" by Chris ‘Ryan’ (all pseudonyms) that is even more exaggerated and self-grandising. Now I’ll just fade silently back into "lurker-dom" — NightStalker Email addy is nightstalker87 at hot(you know).com

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Ditto Op

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – having read down to bobby’s post…..I’m impressed… john

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having read down to bobby’s post…..I’m impressed… john

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  The series does give some sense of what their WWII desert ops were like.  Hitler gave orders that any captured SAS soldiers were to be executed immediately as they were too dangerous to be left alive. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

        up the empire, peetah!         thanks to the brits from         their friend in the old north state         wayno         and if you think *they’re* tough, wait ’til they get a whiff of the 24th foot…the south wales borderers.

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Peter Collin: SAS = ? Special Air Service.  Roots from WWII.  It’s the Kippers’ answer to our SEALS, Special Forces, Rangers, etc.  Damn fine bunch even if they are Brits!  <g Dave

According to the Washington Post, they’ve been training in the Pakistani mountains for the past five years and before that, with the Pathan warriors against the Soviets.  If they follow standard SAS ops, most will speak the local language – they’ll concentrate on recon, demolition, and ambush; vectoring in a larger force for the capture and covering it on the extraction.  Then they’ll disappear again and we’ll probably never hear about their contribution. If anyone wants to get an inkling of current SAS ops, check out Andy McNab’s "Bravo Two Zero" about the Gulf War.  An 8 man SAS patrol lead by McNab on a Scud busting mission, was dropped inadvertently in the middle of two Iraqi divisions.  Their mission compromised right from the start, they made a 110 mile escape and evasion to the Syrian border.  One made it, three died (two from exposure) and four were captured at the Euphrates River, the border with Syria.  On the way, it was estimated that they took out over 250 Iraqi soldiers. They were started in WWII by David Stirling, operating in the desert, doing recon and blowing up Rommel’s airplanes and ammunition dumps. The old TV series Rat Patrol was, as is usual for Hollywood, stolen from SAS service history.  The series does give some sense of what their WWII desert ops were like.  Hitler gave orders that any captured SAS soldiers were to be executed immediately as they were too dangerous to be left alive. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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SAS = ?

Special Air Service. — Gary (Email address is munged with x’s)

Response:

Peter Collin: SAS = ?

Special Air Service.  Roots from WWII.  It’s the Kippers’ answer to our SEALS, Special Forces, Rangers, etc.  Damn fine bunch even if they are Brits!  <g Dave

Response:

I haven’t seen it mentioned on CNN but the Toronto Sun has reported a fire fight between a Taliban force and an SAS recon patrol. Apparently, they’ve been in country for nearly a week, looking for bin Laden. wish ‘em luck Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Peter Charles: I haven’t seen it mentioned on CNN but the Toronto Sun has reported a fire fight between a Taliban force and an SAS recon patrol. Apparently, they’ve been in country for nearly a week, looking for bin Laden. wish ‘em luck

Damn straight, Peter!  Hope they get him.  Betcha you’re poppin’ some buttons! <g Dave

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SAS = ?

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aka "m-14" …special forces for Britain i believe… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – SAS = ?

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Question:

Now, that’s likely to increase interest in the swap.

not from me it won’t…. i sent that useless and futile grass stick down to my momma so she could stake some pole beans in her garden. she called me three days later and cussed me out but good after she donated it to the local homeless shelter for kindling. furthermore, i received a very ungracious e-mail from the third baptist church of jacksonville condemning me to satan for the lack of charity in my heart. all that aside, and accounted for, i, walt winter, hereby denounce and wish all sorts of evil becomings on george gherke for bedeviling me with this bullsh ….uhmmm…errr…. sorry, wrong number. waldo…. who…. caught two brookies, on the new, nc siberian whitewash, millenium day… yipeeeeeeeee! and… wishin all of ya’ll could have done the same…. <bseg….zimman

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Hi Frank and all Count me in with a canary salmon fly. All the best in 2001! Paul MacDonald – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mystery of the missing mail solved! I had setup a FLYSWAP folder in both my OE mail client and my Yahoo web mail, it seems they all went to the web mail site and *that* FLYSWAP folder…they’re all there, every single one.  Following is an updated list, and if you don’t see your name on there, give me a holler.  Sorry for the confusion. OK would-be flyswappers, here’s the 2nd update for the 2nd Annual Great Herman Nijland…     to be announced Dave LaCourse….      Bottom Dweller Caddis Worm Bob Weinberger..       #16 Biot & CDC Caddis Peter Charles……         to be announced Dave Martell…….        Orange/Gold/Brown Clouser Deep Minnow/Crawdad Thom Adams…….        Tube body Callibaetis #14 Robert Mayrand        to be announced Dave Blackett            to be announced Alex Bromham           Iron Blue Dun

Response:

No Steve, but I’m still digging…damn thing’s gotta be here someplace! Frank (bamboozled) Church – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mystery of the missing mail solved! Frank, did you receive an email from me wherein I offered to send you bamboo fly rods instead of flies on account of the fact that I don’t tie? –Steve (just checking

Response:

OK Peter, your down for a wet one. <g Frank (tired already gray swapemupmeister) Church – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yikes!  I hope not Stan!  Things should slow down now that the initial rush is over (?)  Seems to me we had about 29 sign up for the last Great FlySwap then it settled down to about 24 I think.  We now have 24 (at last count) Frank (Already tired and gray swapmeister!) Church After you’ve got your breath back, mine’s a Cahill Wet. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at

http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

OK Paul, you’re down for a canary salmon fly. Frank Church – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hi Frank and all Count me in with a canary salmon fly. All the best in 2001! Paul MacDonald Mystery of the missing mail solved! I had setup a FLYSWAP folder in both my OE mail client and my Yahoo web mail, it seems they all went to the web mail site and *that* FLYSWAP folder…they’re all there, every single one.  Following is an updated list, and if you don’t see your name on there, give me a holler.  Sorry for the confusion. OK would-be flyswappers, here’s the 2nd update for the 2nd Annual Great Herman Nijland…     to be announced Dave LaCourse….      Bottom Dweller Caddis Worm Bob Weinberger..       #16 Biot & CDC Caddis Peter Charles……         to be announced Dave Martell…….        Orange/Gold/Brown Clouser Deep Minnow/Crawdad Thom Adams…….        Tube body Callibaetis #14 Robert Mayrand        to be announced Dave Blackett            to be announced Alex Bromham           Iron Blue Dun

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Where did you find someplace that would sell you a fishing license today?       Frank "calling out the rangers" Reid waldo…. who…. caught two brookies, on the new, nc siberian whitewash, millenium day… yipeeeeeeeee! and… wishin all of ya’ll could have done the same…. <bseg….zimman

Response:

Now, that’s likely to increase interest in the swap. not from me it won’t…. i sent that useless and futile grass stick down to my momma so she could stake some pole beans in her garden. she called me three days later and cussed me out but good after she donated it to the local homeless shelter for kindling. furthermore, i received a very ungracious e-mail from the third baptist church of jacksonville condemning me to satan for the lack of charity in my heart. all that aside, and accounted for, i, walt winter, hereby denounce and wish all sorts of evil becomings on george gherke for bedeviling me with this bullsh ….uhmmm…errr…. sorry, wrong number.

_____-  That’s alright Walter, you got it free anyhow.  I just wish you had returned it to me instead.  I could have given it to a youngster much more in need who could never afford a fine fly rod like that one is.  Try and think of others once in a while in the future, will you? When one doesn’t want a gift, it would be the gentlemanly thing to return it quietly and in the same vein that it was sent you.  In friendship and respect. Things like this always seem to elude you Walter.  I’m sorry to hear about it. Happy New Year anyhow. — (C) George Gehrke 2001 http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html     fine bamboo flyrods & blanks

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mystery of the missing mail solved! I had setup a FLYSWAP folder in both my OE mail client and my Yahoo web mail, it seems they all went to the web mail site and *that* FLYSWAP folder…they’re all there, every single one.  Following is an updated list, and if you don’t see your name on there, give me a holler.  Sorry for the confusion. OK would-be flyswappers, here’s the 2nd update for the 2nd Annual Great Herman Nijland…     to be announced Dave LaCourse….      Bottom Dweller Caddis Worm Bob Weinberger..       #16 Biot & CDC Caddis Peter Charles……         to be announced Dave Martell…….        Orange/Gold/Brown Clouser Deep Minnow/Crawdad Thom Adams…….        Tube body Callibaetis #14 Robert Mayrand        to be announced Dave Blackett            to be announced Alex Bromham           Iron Blue Dun

Dear Frank: If you want, put me down for ONE new BLACKJACK Steelhead/Salmon Fly Streamer tied by me, and for ONE DRY FLY tied by George Harvey which is a collector’s item.  It’s value alone is $125 for one of these George Harvey dry flies. I will also send you some coin to help defray some of your postal costs.  How soon would you like to have these two flies Frank and are these flies enough for the exchange? Sincerely, George   — (C) George Gehrke 2001 http://www.gink.com/shopcart/products/gehrke_rods_3.html

Response:

Thanks for your generous offer George, but you only need to tie *one* pattern, multiplied by the number of tiers.  As things stand now, you would need to tie 28 copies of your Blackjack fly.  Also, you only need to include a return address and postage to cover your submission.  The flies must be in to me by 28 Feb.  I must leave for Florida this morning until Saturday so will be unavailable for messages until then. Thanks, Frank – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear Frank: If you want, put me down for ONE new BLACKJACK Steelhead/Salmon Fly Streamer tied by me, and for ONE DRY FLY tied by George Harvey which is a collector’s item.  It’s value alone is $125 for one of these George Harvey dry flies. I will also send you some coin to help defray some of your postal costs.  How soon would you like to have these two flies Frank and are these flies enough for the exchange? Sincerely, George — (C) George Gehrke 2001 http://www.gink.com/shopcart/products/gehrke_rods_3.html

Response:

Duty calls and I must leave for Tampa, FL this morning, so any questions, comments or criticisms concerning the Great FlySwap will go unanswered until this coming Saturday. And especially, the *criticisms* will go unanswered! Frank (Ye Olde Gray Swapmeister) Church …and soon to be tired, I expect…

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…..quietly and in the same vein……

Ahhhhhh!  This explains SO much! Wolfgang monkey?  what monkey?

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks for your generous offer George, but you only need to tie *one* pattern, multiplied by the number of tiers.  As things stand now, you would need to tie 28 copies of your Blackjack fly.  Also, you only need to include a return address and postage to cover your submission.  The flies must be in to me by 28 Feb.  I must leave for Florida this morning until Saturday so will be unavailable for messages until then. Thanks, Frank Dear Frank: If you want, put me down for ONE new BLACKJACK Steelhead/Salmon Fly Streamer tied by me, and for ONE DRY FLY tied by George Harvey which is a collector’s item.  It’s value alone is $125 for one of these George Harvey dry flies. I will also send you some coin to help defray some of your postal costs.  How soon would you like to have these two flies Frank and are these flies enough for the exchange? Sincerely, George — (C) George Gehrke 2001 http://www.gink.com/shopcart/products/gehrke_rods_3.html

Well, okay . . . but let’s make that either the Light Cahill Dry or Wet Fly?  It takes a long time to tie one BlackJack.  Too many flies and not enough heart beats left, LOL! — (C) George Gehrke 2001 http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html     fine bamboo flyrods & blanks

Response:

Dear Frank: If you want, put me down for ONE new BLACKJACK Steelhead/Salmon Fly Streamer tied by me, and for ONE DRY FLY tied by George Harvey which is a collector’s item.  It’s value alone is $125 for one of these George Harvey dry flies.

I personally believe that George Harvey tied flies are a collector’s item but they are NOT valued at $125 a piece.  I am sure that is how much YOU claim your George Harvey ties to be worth on your insurance policies. Can I interest you in some ocean-front property in central PA? Dave — proud owner of a shadowbox of flies tied by George Harvey

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text —— Original Message —– Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.tying Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 12:38 AM Frank, What a good idea the fly swap.  I live in Holland. Count me in for a Wallonian Special. We use this fly a lot in the Belgian Ardennen.We catch mostly Trout and Flag Salmon with this dry fly. I sent an email but you seem to have some trouble with all the enthusiastic email. Rudi Verberne OK would-be flyswappers, here’s the 3rd update for the 2nd Annual Great Fly Swap of 2001, this thing really took off…….27 signed on as of now…Truly an international flyswap, we now have USA, Canada, The Netherlands, Germany and Australia, and I know there’s got to be others out there laying in the weeds……Willi? Wolfie? Zimbo? <<he’s good for a bamboo rod.  :-) Herman Nijland…     to be announced Dave LaCourse….      Bottom Dweller Caddis Worm Bob Weinberger..       #16 Biot & CDC Caddis Peter Charles……         to be announced Dave Martell…….        Orange/Gold/Brown Clouser Deep Minnow/Crawdad Thom Adams…….        Tube body Callibaetis #14 Robert Mayrand        to be announced Dave Blackett            to be announced Alex Bromham           Iron Blue Dun

Response:

Mystery of the missing mail solved! I had setup a FLYSWAP folder in both my OE mail client and my Yahoo web mail, it seems they all went to the web mail site and *that* FLYSWAP folder…they’re all there, every single one.  Following is an updated list, and if you don’t see your name on there, give me a holler.  Sorry for the confusion. OK would-be flyswappers, here’s the 2nd update for the 2nd Annual Great Herman Nijland…     to be announced Dave LaCourse….      Bottom Dweller Caddis Worm Bob Weinberger..       #16 Biot & CDC Caddis Peter Charles……         to be announced Dave Martell…….        Orange/Gold/Brown Clouser Deep Minnow/Crawdad Thom Adams…….        Tube body Callibaetis #14 Robert Mayrand        to be announced Dave Blackett            to be announced Alex Bromham           Iron Blue Dun

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So, we shooting for 50 tyers this time?  We’re up to 25 in 24 hours!

OK would-be flyswappers, here’s the 2nd update for the 2nd Annual Great

<big list snipped

Response:

Yikes!  I hope not Stan!  Things should slow down now that the initial rush is over (?)  Seems to me we had about 29 sign up for the last Great FlySwap then it settled down to about 24 I think.  We now have 24 (at last count) Frank (Already tired and gray swapmeister!) Church – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So, we shooting for 50 tyers this time?  We’re up to 25 in 24 hours! OK would-be flyswappers, here’s the 2nd update for the 2nd Annual Great <big list snipped

Response:

Mystery of the missing mail solved!

Frank, did you receive an email from me wherein I offered to send you bamboo fly rods instead of flies on account of the fact that I don’t tie? –Steve (just checking

Response:

Now, that’s likely to increase interest in the swap. JR — To reply, remove the Qs from the address above – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mystery of the missing mail solved! Frank, did you receive an email from me wherein I offered to send you bamboo fly rods instead of flies on account of the fact that I don’t tie? –Steve (just checking

Response:

Yikes!  I hope not Stan!  Things should slow down now that the initial rush is over (?)  Seems to me we had about 29 sign up for the last Great FlySwap then it settled down to about 24 I think.  We now have 24 (at last count) Frank (Already tired and gray swapmeister!) Church

After you’ve got your breath back, mine’s a Cahill Wet. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Question:

Here is the individual responsible for this spam- this same person spams this group weekly with various pornography and is a notorious spammer in many other newsgroups. (I tracked the phone number to his websites- then researched the owner of those sites): His name is Jerry Nardini. Here are his most recent addresses and phone numbers: PO Box 5981 Stateline, NV 89449 (702)588-0862 112a Cervantes Street San Francisco, CA 94123 (415)928-6025 25 Stillman st. #200 San Francico, CA 94109 (415)281-3104 Wanna meet someone tonight? It costs ONLY $1 per minute CALL NOW :  1-800-750-GIRL (4475) These girls are not phonesex workers. They are horny girls who are on the

line cuz it’s free phonesex for them. You are free to arrange to meet anyone you meet on this line. Give it a try! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – -EnjoyKIeTXJuN

Response:

Wolfgang Siebeneich schrieb:  I vote we keep the gentleman from North Carolina and lose you.  Seconds? Seconded !  ( average sixty to the minute ! ).

I vote we keep the gentleman from North Carolina and Wayno too !! — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Moreover, Wayne amuses me and a lot of others on this NG.  You don’t. Chris W. doesn’t.  Mr. Nardini doesn’t.  I vote we keep the gentleman from North Carolina and lose you.  Seconds?

Seconded !  ( average sixty to the minute ! ). TL MC

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I vote we keep the gentleman from North Carolina and Wayno too !!

Uh oh!  Did I get it wrong?  Wait, let me think a gentleman?

Response:

Moreover, Wayne amuses me and a lot of others on this NG.  You don’t. Chris W. doesn’t.  Mr. Nardini doesn’t.  I vote we keep the gentleman from North Carolina and lose you.  Seconds?

Here! babob

Response:

Uh oh!  Did I get it wrong?  Wait, let me think a gentleman?

Yes, my name is E. Gaduair, but I prefer that you not refer to me as EGAD!! And could someone tell me just what the Germans have done to piss-off you folks. Opie in NC

Response:

Uh oh!  Did I get it wrong?  Wait, let me think a gentleman? Yes, my name is E. Gaduair, but I prefer that you not refer to me as EGAD!! And could someone tell me just what the Germans have done to piss-off you folks. Opie in NC

Tut mir ausserordentlich leid, aber ich habe kein Wort verstanden. TL MC

Response:

It’s all very clear to me now! NC Opie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Tut mir ausserordentlich leid, aber ich habe kein Wort verstanden. TL MC

Response:

Another person completely at a loss on the concept of News Groups. Wayno, numbnuts, these are not porno news groups and porno, or any other non-germaine posts, don’t belong here. You childish remarks prove your ignorance. Perhaps you need to take remedial Internet training as you are still way-fuzzy on the concept.

News Groups.  Public fora, are they not?  Seems to suggest that ANYONE is free to post.  Even some dumbass peddling his porn.  Everyone else, on the other hand, is free to whip his naked ass back where he came from or simply ignore him.  Or ignore Mr. Harrison for that matter.  Or you.  Or me. So, what’s germane?  Ignore everything that’s not strictly about fly fishing on this NG and you don’t have a great deal left to read.  Are your insults germane?  Why are they more germane than Mr. Harrison’s?  Wayne has posted a great deal of welcome information on these pages.  Has Chris W.?  Has Mr. Nardini?  Have you, Bobby? Moreover, Wayne amuses me and a lot of others on this NG.  You don’t.  Chris W. doesn’t.  Mr. Nardini doesn’t.  I vote we keep the gentleman from North Carolina and lose you.  Seconds?

Response:

[deleted]  Another person completely at a loss on the concept of News Groups. Wayno, numbnuts, these are not porno news groups and porno, or any other non-germaine posts, don’t belong here. You childish remarks prove your ignorance. Perhaps you need to take remedial Internet training as you are still way-fuzzy on the concept.

You mean like your (and mine) crossposted double-drivel ? Thanks for the NG lesson Robert ! — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

Response:

wayno "the professor" relates: <<finally, let me close with a few more childish remarks:  bite me, robbie baby; and, for good measure, "na na nah na na naahh".         you are now free to continue your graduate level studies in anal retentiveness. roflmao.  what a way to start out the day!  hey, why am i typing all in lower case?   louie

Response:

Here is the individual responsible for this spam- this same person spams this group weekly with various pornography and is a notorious spammer in many other newsgroups. (I tracked the phone number to his websites- then researched the owner of those sites): His name is Jerry Nardini. Here are his most recent addresses and phone numbers:

        gosh, chris, thanks for insulating me from evil.         now, do you think you could use this info to get jerry to drop the charges to a half a buck per minute?         roff is darwinian, chris, baby.  he won’t survive.  can you dig it? wayno

Response:

Here ya go Wayno!  Anything else you need you just gimme a Want to talk with REAL horny girls? This is something VERY new in phone sex. The women on the line are NOT paid. They call for free phone sex with guys like YOU! Guys: 50 cents per minute Girls: TOTALLY FREE discreetly directly to your phone bill. For gay talk call: 1-888-800-GUYS (toll-free) For Dominance & Submission Call: 888-700-WHIP l

Response:

Here ya go Wayno!  Anything else you need you just gimme a

ahhhhhhhhh… ROFF is darwinian lol waldo Ezflyfish.com http://www.ezflyfish.com BRBG http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here is the individual responsible for this spam- this same person spams this group weekly with various pornography and is a notorious spammer in many other newsgroups. (I tracked the phone number to his websites- then researched the owner of those sites): His name is Jerry Nardini. Here are his most recent addresses and phone numbers:         gosh, chris, thanks for insulating me from evil.         now, do you think you could use this info to get jerry to drop the charges to a half a buck per minute?         roff is darwinian, chris, baby.  he won’t survive.  can you dig it? wayno

  Another person completely at a loss on the concept of News Groups. Wayno, numbnuts, these are not porno news groups and porno, or any other non-germaine posts, don’t belong here. You childish remarks prove your ignorance. Perhaps you need to take remedial Internet training as you are still way-fuzzy on the concept.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –         gosh, chris, thanks for insulating me from evil.         now, do you think you could use this info to get jerry to drop the charges to a half a buck per minute?         roff is darwinian, chris, baby.  he won’t survive.  can you dig it? wayno  Another person completely at a loss on the concept of News Groups. Wayno, numbnuts, these are not porno news groups and porno, or any other non-germaine posts, don’t belong here. You childish remarks prove your ignorance. Perhaps you need to take remedial Internet training as you are still way-fuzzy on the concept.

        what you need is a good cyber ass whipping, which i will happily provide.         you also need some help with your grammar and spelling.         finally, let me close with a few more childish remarks:  bite me, robbie baby; and, for good measure, "na na nah na na naahh".         you are now free to continue your graduate level studies in anal retentiveness.         wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Question:

I saw a translation of the Redding CA fly shop’s fishing reports posted here several weeks ago. I am meeting a group that frequent the area this weekend and would like to share that with them. Does anyone know where I can get that post? Dingbat

Response:

I saw a translation of the Redding CA fly shop’s fishing reports posted here several weeks ago. I am meeting a group that frequent the area this weekend and would like to share that with them. Does anyone know where I can get that post? Dingbat

Hi Karl, This is the web address: http://206.155.34.5/report.taf Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

Response:

Question:

writes I agree with your views.  Trout, as a species is generally a small fish that averages (AVERAGES) about 12 – 14 inches.  Where are the pictures of those?

Regrettably or otherwise, most stillwater anglers would be disappointed if their rainbows measured only 12-14 inches.  That is the state of things where Troutmaster Monthly winners are concerned.  With Triploids of up to 15 lbs stocked, the little ‘uns dont come into the reckonig. Regards, — Bill

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writes I agree with your views.  Trout, as a species is generally a small fish that averages (AVERAGES) about 12 – 14 inches.  Where are the pictures of those? Regrettably or otherwise, most stillwater anglers would be disappointed if their rainbows measured only 12-14 inches.  That is the state of things where Troutmaster Monthly winners are concerned.  With Triploids of up to 15 lbs stocked, the little ‘uns dont come into the reckonig. Regards,

– Ive often wondered if there are enough people  who would like to fish with the lighter fly lines say 3-5 for smaller fish and perhaps pay less for a day ticket. My favourite fishing is for brownies in smallish rivers and streams in the west, Scotland and Eire . Living just outside Milton Keynes I only fish like this for a few weeks a year. A small fish fishery would get my support if within reasonable driving distance. Anybody else feel the same.? Peter Marler

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A small fish fishery would get my support if within reasonable driving distance. Anybody else feel the same.? Peter Marler

One of my local small stillwaters comprises several ponds, the main one has produced a Welsh record trout of over 24 lbs.  Ther is also a beginners fly pond, also an any method pond for children and non fly- fishermen.  One day, on arriving at the lodge, I was told that the "main" pond was full (max. number of anglers), so I asked if I could go on the beginners pond.  The fish here are averaging around 3/4 lbs.  I had a great afternoon’s sport, landing six, but missed about five others, and all the fish caught were decent plate sized trout. The above is a sort of example of your suggestion. Regards, — Bill

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Indeed.  My husband and I search out the small, native and generally less accessible waters in the NC mountains.  We particularly like to fish to the small native brook trout population with a fly my best friend has dubbed the "Energizer" (It keeps going & going much like the battery bunny of US commercials). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – writes I agree with your views.  Trout, as a species is generally a small fish that averages (AVERAGES) about 12 – 14 inches.  Where are the pictures of those? Regrettably or otherwise, most stillwater anglers would be disappointed if their rainbows measured only 12-14 inches.  That is the state of things where Troutmaster Monthly winners are concerned.  With Triploids of up to 15 lbs stocked, the little ‘uns dont come into the reckonig. Regards, — Ive often wondered if there are enough people  who would like to fish with the lighter fly lines say 3-5 for smaller fish and perhaps pay less for a day ticket. My favourite fishing is for brownies in smallish rivers and streams in the west, Scotland and Eire . Living just outside Milton Keynes I only fish like this for a few weeks a year. A small fish fishery would get my support if within reasonable driving distance. Anybody else feel the same.? Peter Marler

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______ I agree with your views.  Trout, as a species is generally a small fish that averages (AVERAGES) about 12 – 14 inches.  Where are the pictures of those? Mr. G. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Totally agree with the perspective photo in Trout Fisherman, I wonder if the angler felt better after his fish was portrayed as some protein-bound leviathan. One point which is hard to digest is the rose-tinted view of some anglers, sure we would all like to be on the magical rivers, catching wild browns, but it is not practical. Fly-fishing is for everyone – I have people fish at Cheshire Fishing, who could not manage to fish rivers, I have shift workers who have to grab every moment they can – people who doubt the beauty of such places, then surely have never been. I have fished on rivers, from the beautiful Eastern Cleddau to the Cheshire Dee, they are certainly no more scenic than Cheshire Fishing. Sure, we have double figure trout, but they are not tailess, egg-bound females, they are hard, silver, full tailed trout and the fish are noted for their beauty whatever the size. The main difference is, our trout are raised in earth ponds and their diet is supplemented with natural invertabrates like Shrimp. Don’t mock man made stillwaters – they have their niche – if you like rivers then fish them. Any doubts I had over the ethics of stillwaters was lost, when the teacher of a group of abused boys, told me that she had never in her career, seen a group hold attention for this length of time, their normal attention span was less than 15 minutes, these were spellbound for four hours, they co-operated with each other, they displayed characteristics never shown before. If anyone would like jpegs of fish, scenery etc, just let me know, and if the perspective is wrong on my pictures, then it is because I am a crap photographer, not because I wanted the fish to look bigger..! You are welcome to visit our website http://freespace.virgin.net/r.j/Cheshire.htm

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Totally agree with the perspective photo in Trout Fisherman, I wonder if the angler felt better after his fish was portrayed as some protein-bound leviathan. One point which is hard to digest is the rose-tinted view of some anglers, sure we would all like to be on the magical rivers, catching wild browns, but it is not practical. Fly-fishing is for everyone – I have people fish at Cheshire Fishing, who could not manage to fish rivers, I have shift workers who have to grab every moment they can – people who doubt the beauty of such places, then surely have never been. I have fished on rivers, from the beautiful Eastern Cleddau to the Cheshire Dee, they are certainly no more scenic than Cheshire Fishing. Sure, we have double figure trout, but they are not tailess, egg-bound females, they are hard, silver, full tailed trout and the fish are noted for their beauty whatever the size. The main difference is, our trout are raised in earth ponds and their diet is supplemented with natural invertabrates like Shrimp. Don’t mock man made stillwaters – they have their niche – if you like rivers then fish them. Any doubts I had over the ethics of stillwaters was lost, when the teacher of a group of abused boys, told me that she had never in her career, seen a group hold attention for this length of time, their normal attention span was less than 15 minutes, these were spellbound for four hours, they co-operated with each other, they displayed characteristics never shown before. If anyone would like jpegs of fish, scenery etc, just let me know, and if the perspective is wrong on my pictures, then it is because I am a crap photographer, not because I wanted the fish to look bigger..! You are welcome to visit our website http://freespace.virgin.net/r.j/Cheshire.htm

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Question:

Have a look at the Jack Dennis Western Fly Tying Manuals, especially Vol II, the best intro into working with hair I have ever seen.                           TU

Hi Thomas, Good advise. I especially wanted to comment on your sign off (TU). It kind of makes a person think of Trout Unlimited. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

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At the Troutabout flyfishing show in Syracuse a few weeks ago there was a guy there that was tying some really nice spun deer hair bass flies.  The entire body of the fly was spun with a light beige deer hair forming a very dense body.  The hair was then trimmed to look like a baitfish and then colored using pantone markers.  The result was a very realistic looking baitfish imitation.  In any case, he had I believe one of Jack Dennis’s bass flies books on his tying bench so I imagine it contains some good information on spinning deer hair. — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY

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  Not to kock anyones books or tapes, I’m sure the’re good, but IMHO the best video for deer hair instruction is by Jimmy Nixx.  The tape is 2 hours long and crammed full of instruction.  I learned all my deer hair techniques from just watching the tape. Chuck —

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Have a look at the Jack Dennis Western Fly Tying Manuals, especially Vol II, the best intro into working with hair I have ever seen.                            TU

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Well, there is really not much more I can say… Thank’s.                  Aaron Zee

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Path:

news.bright.net!chi-news.cic.net!mr.net!winternet.com!newsfeed.concentric.n et!n ews.texas.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!news.iadfw.n et!u senet Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly Organization: Guest user Lines: 4 NNTP-Posting-Host: dal05-27.ppp.iadfw.net Well, there is really not much more I can say… Thank’s.                  Aaron Zee

Bag the book, Deer hair is tough enough Try to get a video by Jack Dennis etc.

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Question:

Try this Bill A.

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This newsgrp is too big and diverse for me.  Is there a fly-fishing or fly-tying only newsgroup that one can subscribe to?  I’m in Oregon, and I can’t believe there aren’t enough folks out there to have a newsgroup!

Yes, there is a flyfishing group.  It’s called rec.outdoors.fishing.fly. However, it has even more traffic then rec.outdoors.fishing.  I recently put in a Call For Discussion for rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.tying to try and separate some of the tying discussion out of the main group.  There hasn’t been much discussion at all.  The Call For Votes should be coming up soon.  r.o.f.f. is a good group.  There are a lot of regulars that have been reading the group and a few accomplished flyfishers including Ralph and Lisa Cutter that contribute regularly.  The Cutters run the top rated flyfishing school in the country (US). — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY

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This newsgrp is too big and diverse for me.  Is there a fly-fishing or fly-tying only newsgroup that one can subscribe to?  I’m in Oregon, and I can’t believe there aren’t enough folks out there to have a newsgroup!

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