Question:

Greetings All, I live in the Tampa Bay area & would like some input from kayak fishers in this area as to what ‘yak you use

Not from the area, but I have a couple of ‘Rides’ I use for fly fishing and they are great boats. I live in Atlanta but have used them off Tybee Island and also around the Port St. Joe/Apalachiciola area and have had no problems with them at all. — Charlie…

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Greetings All, I live in the Tampa Bay area & would like some input from kayak fishers in this area as to what ‘yak you use Not from the area, but I have a couple of ‘Rides’ I use for fly fishing and they are great boats. I live in Atlanta but have used them off Tybee Island and also around the Port St. Joe/Apalachiciola area and have had no problems with them at all. — Charlie…

I’ll have to go test one out and see if it’s really possible to stand up in it like the chap depicted in the ad on their web page. Scott

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I’ll have to go test one out and see if it’s really possible to stand up in it like the chap depicted in the ad on their web page.

It is, but I’m not sure I could land a fish that way. <g — Charlie…

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Cockroach Bay is a "good area."  Still relatively undisturbed.  Too shallow for many powerboats.  Rich in fish and birdlife. Also try the sandbar just north of the Cockroach Bay boat ramp and separating the outer mangrove shore from Tampa Bay.  I used to wedge a paddle into the sand and tie my canoe to it; then, walk/wade the bar, casting off the side that seemed likely to be most productive.  Got snook, trout, bonnethead shark, etc., there.  Very pleasant even when fish weren’t biting. Jeff Jeff Harper jeff#doplay.com

| Greetings All, | | I live in the Tampa Bay area & would like some input from kayak fishers | in this area as to what ‘yak you use and what are some good areas. I’m | considering a Scupper Pro TW or a Wilderness Systems Ride.   I’m | thinking the Weedon Island area is a good place, and the flats area | between the Gandy and Skyway. | | Scott |

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Greetings All, I live in the Tampa Bay area & would like some input from kayak fishers in this area as to what ‘yak you use and what are some good areas. I’m considering a Scupper Pro TW or a Wilderness Systems Ride.   I’m thinking the Weedon Island area is a good place, and the flats area between the Gandy and Skyway. Scott

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Question:

2 months?  Lucky bastard. Don’t go anywhere near Cherokee, especially this time of year (unless you enjoy being  overwhelmed with tourist-trap garbage). Trout are going to be iffy through the summer, but if you keep trying, you will catch some.  Get advice at the nearest bait seller as to how and where.  You’d be suprized at the size of the trout that are pulled from the slimmest streams. Got a boat?  Fontana offers trout, smallmouth, musky, etc.   Catch or not, relax and enjoy yourself.  You’ll be staying in one of the most spectacular regions in the country.  Avoid the crowds, find a trail up a remote mountainside, and breathe.

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What types of successful fishing is available on this river?  Are small mouth apt to be caught any time?  Are trout happening here?  I will be in the area where the river empties into Lake Fontana for about 2 months.  Thanks for the advice. Before you buy.

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I believe it is regularly stocked with rainbow trout.  Also, just north of there, on the Cherokee Indian Reservation, the Tribe regularly stocks their streams with trout.  You can pay them a fee and probably catch your limit of brownies and rainbows.  Take a fly rod if you have one. What types of successful fishing is available on this river?  Are small mouth apt to be caught any time?  Are trout happening here?  I will be in the area where the river empties into Lake Fontana for about 2 months.  Thanks for the advice. Before you buy.

– To e-mail me, remove the "d"

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Question:

Dear Steve, I read your inquiry regarding the CMR-Reel and I’m sure you’ll be very pleased with it, should you decide to purchase one. You can get all the technical information about all Marryat products including the CMR reel on the Web page at: www.marryat.com Regards, Roger Ritter, Marryat staff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When fly fishing for trout in Sweden, I saw someone fishing with the new Marryat CMR reel made in Switzerland. This guy was extremly pleased with its performance. Before buying one, I would like to hear how others feel about this new product. Steve Turner

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When fly fishing for trout in Sweden, I saw someone fishing with the new Marryat CMR reel made in Switzerland. This guy was extremly pleased with its performance. Before buying one, I would like to hear how others feel about this new product. Steve Turner

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Question:

I must add that many anglers are usnign Teeny lines oin the Roanoke River in North Carolina where I am a guide.  Right now the water is quite high. Those using shooting heads combined with braided mono running line or Amnesia are outfishing those with Teeny lines 10 to 1.  The floating running line on the Teeny lines detracts from the sinking performance and the fly just doesn’t get to the bottom. I’m looking for a shooting sinking head for larger ( 10 – 12 saltwater) rods.  I’m familiar with the Teeny T 200 lines and like the fact that the running line floats, rather than sinks like some running lines and monofilament do.  Do you have any opinions on the Scientific Anglers running line?  I hear that it floats and performs well.  I would be using the line in Saltwater situations.  Thanks for your opinion.

Hi Tim, S.A. makes several different types and diameters of floating and sinking running lines. The one that you are probably think of is the new Mastery Saltwater floating running line with the braided core. It comes in two diameters, .036" and .042". The smaller would be good for maximum distance or on smaller 7, 8 & 9 weight outfits. The larger is easier to hang on to and better for larger 10, 11 & 12 weights. These running lines are usually used in conjunction with a 30′ shooting head. The Teeny and Cortland 24′ sink tips with floating running lines are similar, but have no connecting knots or loops. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com — Flyfish NC                                                   Gordon Churchill http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Rapids/3853                                                                    

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m looking for a shooting sinking head for larger ( 10 – 12 saltwater) rods.  I’m familiar with the Teeny T 200 lines and like the fact that the running line floats, rather than sinks like some running lines and monofilament do.  Do you have any opinions on the Scientific Anglers running line?  I hear that it floats and performs well.  I would be using the line in Saltwater situations.  Thanks for your opinion. if you’re going to go with a shooting head (either teeny or other brand) i would recommend buying floating running line and a shooting head instead of the teeny line.  this way you can loop and unloop different density heads depending on conditions (ie. switching from a type VI to a type I or floater).  the only decision on the floating running line is what diameter to get.  the smaller the diameter, the further the cast, but also the probability of tangles increases. i can’t remember what floating running line i bought (whether it was cortland or S.A.) but i think you’ll be happier with a syatem that allows you to change sink rates with only one spool. good luck, chris

Thanks Chris.

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I’m looking for a shooting sinking head for larger ( 10 – 12 saltwater) rods.  I’m familiar with the Teeny T 200 lines and like the fact that the running line floats, rather than sinks like some running lines and monofilament do.  Do you have any opinions on the Scientific Anglers running line?  I hear that it floats and performs well.  I would be using the line in Saltwater situations.  Thanks for your opinion. I think tha the main reason the catalogs and many flyshops are pushing the teeny lines is tha fact that for every different density you have you need another spool.  Whether you use a braided mono running line ( my favorite), 30 pound test Amnesia (farther casts and faster sink) or one that is more like a regular flyfline ( I would say you might like the intermediat running line the best.  less prone to tangles as the floating ones are) go with a shooting head system.  More flexible and less expensive to have mor elines to use on hand in the long run. — Flyfish NC                                                   Gordon Churchill http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Rapids/3853                                                                    

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I’m looking for a shooting sinking head for larger ( 10 – 12 saltwater) rods.  I’m familiar with the Teeny T 200 lines and like the fact that the running line floats, rather than sinks like some running lines and monofilament do.  Do you have any opinions on the Scientific Anglers running line?  I hear that it floats and performs well.  I would be using the line in Saltwater situations.  Thanks for your opinion.

Hi Tim, S.A. makes several different types and diameters of floating and sinking running lines. The one that you are probably think of is the new Mastery Saltwater floating running line with the braided core. It comes in two diameters, .036" and .042". The smaller would be good for maximum distance or on smaller 7, 8 & 9 weight outfits. The larger is easier to hang on to and better for larger 10, 11 & 12 weights. These running lines are usually used in conjunction with a 30′ shooting head. The Teeny and Cortland 24′ sink tips with floating running lines are similar, but have no connecting knots or loops. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m looking for a shooting sinking head for larger ( 10 – 12 saltwater) rods.  I’m familiar with the Teeny T 200 lines and like the fact that the running line floats, rather than sinks like some running lines and monofilament do.  Do you have any opinions on the Scientific Anglers running line?  I hear that it floats and performs well.  I would be using the line in Saltwater situations.  Thanks for your opinion. Hi Tim, I’ve seen the light and given up on braided type running lines – all the braided running lines I’ve tried cut my fingers to pieces once they got wet and soft, leaving permanent "stripping grooves" on the index finger if my rod hand. Based on the pleasure of using a Teeny TS350 for two years I decided to switch to floating running lines for all my shooting head fishing. I don’t know about the S.A. running lines, I bought a couple of Teeny floating running lines, part no. LSL.032, which are bright chartreuse .032" diameter 100ft long. I whipped braid loops on both ends and now use them behind all my shooting heads. With the sink rates available with S.A. Deep Water Express lines, the floating running line doesn’t seem to make much difference to the ultimate depth achieved. They tangle far less, are easier to untangle and don’t cut you to pieces. So far they are wearing well, but will cut and damage easier than braided mono if stomped on. John Knight Sydney Fly Rodders’

Thanks John, I agree that the braided lines are not the way to go, especially on fish  like tarpon which cause dangerous conditions when stripping and setting the hook. Tim

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I’m looking for a shooting sinking head for larger ( 10 – 12 saltwater) rods.  I’m familiar with the Teeny T 200 lines and like the fact that the running line floats, rather than sinks like some running lines and monofilament do.  Do you have any opinions on the Scientific Anglers running line?  I hear that it floats and performs well.  I would be using the line in Saltwater situations.  Thanks for your opinion.

Response:

I’m looking for a shooting sinking head for larger ( 10 – 12 saltwater) rods.  I’m familiar with the Teeny T 200 lines and like the fact that the running line floats, rather than sinks like some running lines and monofilament do.  Do you have any opinions on the Scientific Anglers running line?  I hear that it floats and performs well.  I would be using the line in Saltwater situations.  Thanks for your opinion.

if you’re going to go with a shooting head (either teeny or other brand) i would recommend buying floating running line and a shooting head instead of the teeny line.  this way you can loop and unloop different density heads depending on conditions (ie. switching from a type VI to a type I or floater).  the only decision on the floating running line is what diameter to get.  the smaller the diameter, the further the cast, but also the probability of tangles increases. i can’t remember what floating running line i bought (whether it was cortland or S.A.) but i think you’ll be happier with a syatem that allows you to change sink rates with only one spool. good luck, chris

Response:

I’m looking for a shooting sinking head for larger ( 10 – 12 saltwater) rods.  I’m familiar with the Teeny T 200 lines and like the fact that the running line floats, rather than sinks like some running lines and monofilament do.  Do you have any opinions on the Scientific Anglers running line?  I hear that it floats and performs well.  I would be using the line in Saltwater situations.  Thanks for your opinion.

Hi Tim, I’ve seen the light and given up on braided type running lines – all the braided running lines I’ve tried cut my fingers to pieces once they got wet and soft, leaving permanent "stripping grooves" on the index finger if my rod hand. Based on the pleasure of using a Teeny TS350 for two years I decided to switch to floating running lines for all my shooting head fishing. I don’t know about the S.A. running lines, I bought a couple of Teeny floating running lines, part no. LSL.032, which are bright chartreuse .032" diameter 100ft long. I whipped braid loops on both ends and now use them behind all my shooting heads. With the sink rates available with S.A. Deep Water Express lines, the floating running line doesn’t seem to make much difference to the ultimate depth achieved. They tangle far less, are easier to untangle and don’t cut you to pieces. So far they are wearing well, but will cut and damage easier than braided mono if stomped on. John Knight Sydney Fly Rodders’

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Question:

Hi All, There is a lot of low elevation action right now in Nor Cal. We have the striper spawning run that is below and above my town of Sacramento now. April/May/ June is prime time so go for it. There are small spring run steelhead and trout in all the valley rivers/streams and they are feeding on salmon fry and insects. The black bass are really taking off now especially on the sunny days. The shad run is getting close with May/June being the prime months for wading. They will be boat fishing for them very soon. Many low elevation lakes are seeing the end of the winter trout before they go deep and the bass are coming to the banks with the warm weather. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

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Trip Report of Sorts We got majorly lost driving back to anaheim from universal studios…last week. We missed the turnoff from 10 to 5 and didn’t notice it until we hit highway 15, Ontario, etc. and I told the driver….uh…."what road are we on…?". Ugly American Tourists on their day off. Your pal, — TBone The Halfordian Golfer

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, There is a lot of low elevation action right now in Nor Cal. We have the striper spawning run that is below and above my town of Sacramento now. April/May/ June is prime time so go for it. There are small spring run steelhead and trout in all the valley rivers/streams and they are feeding on salmon fry and insects. The black bass are really taking off now especially on the sunny days. The shad run is getting close with May/June being the prime months for wading. They will be boat fishing for them very soon. Many low elevation lakes are seeing the end of the winter trout before they go deep and the bass are coming to the banks with the warm weather. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

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Trip Report of Sorts We got majorly lost driving back to anaheim from universal studios…last week. We missed the turnoff from 10 to 5 and didn’t notice it until we hit highway 15, Ontario, etc. and I told the driver….uh…."what road are we on…?". Ugly American Tourists on their day off. Your pal,

Shit, if you didn’t notice until you got to Ontario – you were REALLY lost.  :) Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Okay Bill, you convinced me.  I will leave these 30 lb stripers in the Chesapeake and the shad run and head to California.  Thanks for the tips by the way.  I talked to my buddy and he is bringing his raft and rowing frame. We will get a guide (hopefully) on the Lower Sac for Saturday and then raft it on Sunday and Monday. By the way, with my history, you might want to call the volunteer fire departments for the areas downstream from Redding and alert them to my presence.  They might want to stock up on grappling hooks.  Anyone else with a video camera is free to film from a safe distance.  Again, I thank you and my widow thanks you. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply.

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Shit, if you didn’t notice until you got to Ontario – you were REALLY lost.  :) Peter

Hey, I grew up 10 miles from Ontario, does that mean I can claim dual citizenship? — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply.

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Shit, if you didn’t notice until you got to Ontario – you were REALLY lost.  :) Peter Hey, I grew up 10 miles from Ontario, does that mean I can claim dual citizenship?

Frank, we’d be proud to call you one of ours.  Hell, you’d fit right in.  (Not sure if that’s a good thing, though?) Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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(excuse if this is a duplicate, but my server is a bit wanky) Okay Bill, you convinced me.  I will leave these 30 lb stripers in the Chesapeake and the shad run and head to California.  Thanks for the tips by the way.  I talked to my buddy and he is bringing his raft and rowing frame. We will get a guide (hopefully) on the Lower Sac for Saturday and then raft it on Sunday and Monday. By the way, with my history, you might want to call the volunteer fire departments for the areas downstream from Redding and alert them to my presence.  They might want to stock up on grappling hooks.  Anyone else with a video camera is free to film from a safe distance.  Again, I thank you and my widow thanks you. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply.

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We got majorly lost driving back to anaheim from universal studios…last week. We missed the turnoff from 10 to 5 and didn’t notice it until we hit highway 15, Ontario, etc. and I told the driver….uh…."what road are we on…?".

Yeah, the 4-level.  Depending on which way you hit that interchange where the 10, 101, 5, 110 all seem to merge, you might have to cross 4 lanes of highway in 1/8 mile to reach your desired destination. Mu

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I’m planning a vacation for the end of July, and was considering the Shasta region of Northern Cal.  To fish the McCloud, Trinity,etc.  What I’ve read however seems to promote an awful lot of private water, and I’m not going to be able to afford guided trips.  Can anyone clue me in as to public access out there, and what to expect?  If I’m going to be frustrated by access, I’d rather go to Montana/Idaho/Wyoming as I usually do.  Thanks in advance. Ray P

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Yes by all means go to Montana/Idaho/Wyoming we don’t have any guides and the water is all private. — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m planning a vacation for the end of July, and was considering the Shasta region of Northern Cal.  To fish the McCloud, Trinity,etc.  What I’ve read however seems to promote an awful lot of private water, and I’m not going to be able to afford guided trips.  Can anyone clue me in as to public access out there, and what to expect?  If I’m going to be frustrated by access, I’d rather go to Montana/Idaho/Wyoming as I usually do.  Thanks in advance. Ray P

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(Rapalm) writes: I’m planning a vacation for the end of July, and was considering the Shasta region of Northern Cal.  To fish the McCloud, Trinity,etc.  What I’ve read however seems to promote an awful lot of private water, and I’m not going to beable to afford guided trips.  Can anyone clue me in as to public access out there, and what to expect?  If I’m going to be frustrated by access, I’d rather go to Montana/Idaho/Wyoming as I usually do.  Thanks in advance. Ray P

Hi Ray, There’s huge amounts of public water on the McCloud, Upper Sac, Trinity, Hat Creek, Pit River, Upper Klamath River, etc.     The McCloud has about a 3 mile section that is owned and operated by the Nature Conservancy and they limit access to a max of 10 rods at any one time.  All of the area from the McCloud Reservoir (lake) down to this is public access and great water.  Lots of public access above the reservoir too, but mostly stocked because it is open to bait fishing.  The Upper Sac has ~ 40 miles of public access.  Virtually all of the Trinity, Hat Creek, Pit River and Upper Klamath are open to public access. The Fall River is totally surrounded by private land but there is public access provided by CalTrout by  Island Bridge.  You do need a pram or other small boat to fish it, ther is no bank access.  The Fall and the section of Hat Creek below the influx of the Rising River are both big spring creeks.  The others are freestone streams.  Scenery is much different than Montana – much greener. Exception would be the Fall River which is best characterised as a large meadow stream that barely moves. Best to call before you come to see what conditions are on the different rivers.  I can tell you what the current conditions are on the McCloud and Upper Sac because I guide on those rivers.  Although I’ve guided in the past on the Fall and on Hat Creek, I’m not sure I’ll do so this year.  The Fly Shop in Redding is usually a good source for info on most of the N. CA rivers.  The Trinity Fly Shop will have current info on the Trinity.  With all the snow and rain we’ve had this year, I’d expect July to be good in N CA.                                            Good Fishing,                                                     Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

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Question:

#but hes like the Senator from my state Jesse #Helms. You may not always agree with him but you always know where #he stands, #he doesn’t teeter or waiver from his beliefs. somebody said back there a bit–if it’s true, why isn’t Jesse insisting that the coons stay in their own part of town as he did back in the good old days? Helms changes, like everybody whose standards are flexible and who considers himself to be a man of principle but returns to the senate voluntarily.  (and many thinking folks hope he comes to his senses.) As for Gierach, he’s an excellent stylist with an ironic wit, and it’s all fiction mind you, which appellation our BB seems to aspire to much more recently. "Strait-laced" as Shakespeare (or should I say the Earl of Oxford?) had it–the pompous Malvolio of Twelfth Night made a fool of himself by coming around in the opposite look, the dandified and contrived "cross-gartered" style. . .in other words, he went out as what he wasn’t, and was laughed off the creek for it.  Went insane, if I remember correctly.  And Shakespeare wrote about what he wasn’t for a buck, collected "such rascal counters" happily; he would have signed his name for more if he’d had the chance, I reckon. Dave

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I actually met John Gierach in Lyons, Colorado at Mike Clarks shop  this last fall.  We stopped by the shop on our way to the Frying Pan.  John G.  was actually very pleasant and eventhough he didn’t have to stay and talk, he did. I haven’t read all the posts about him, but wanted to put in me 2 cents worth about my brief contact with him and how he seemed like a pretty decent guy, besides being a great writer!

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I met John Gierach in Lyons, Colorado at Mike Clarks shop… John was

actually very pleasant and even though he didn’t have to stay and talk, he did. … he seemed like a pretty decent guy,besides being a great writer! Hey Skilch, you’re right about Gierach. I live "up the road" from John, and bump into him, Mike, and the clan on the high country streams occasionally. I’ve also yakked with him at Mike’s rod shop, and been to John’s fly tying clinics. I don’t know Gierach very well, but I like the guy – and I certainly admire what he’s been able to accomplish in his career. Anybody who can win the Robert Traver Award for excellence in outdoor writing, author thousands of magazine articles, newspapers columns, and ten of the best selling fly fishing books in recent history is bound to invite some criticism from those who wish to hell they had his gift – and his success. Too bad. Regards, Dennis

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[deleted] and ten of the best selling fly fishing books in recent history is bound to invite some criticism from those who wish to hell they had his gift – and his success.

Please. Noone (at least not me) is being critical of either: 1) the fact that john is a nice guy  or 2) that they envy his gifts. If you read past the subject line in these posts, you would have had no need to defend him on those scores. In my critical estimation, as a consumer of flyfishing books, John Gierach is a good writer, but not a great writer.  He got someone to publish him, in my opinion, and the rest is history.   Steve Spinolio is a better writer, in my book, than John Gierach, or Russell Chatham.   I enjoy John Geirach at least as much or more than E. Donnel Thomas, "Whitefish Can’t Jump", but they are very much on the same, simple, short story format that does not define great writers.   I like Ted Lesson’s writing better than Gierach. Again, it has nothing to do with John being a good guy or a clever successful hard-working man.  I am certain that he is all that.  You don’t buy a flyrod or a car for that matter just because the builder is a ‘nice guy’.   I liked James Bashline, who was not a writer, really…but offered me something of value in "Nightfishing for Trout". A sad truth is, IMO, the sale of books often has as much to do with the publishers backing them and the level of gloss on the dust jacket as it does quality of content.  The best thing you could do as a writer is get Nick Lyon’s in your court.  That is power there. The number of sales define the number of awards and some of us are simply critical of the writing itself and are not star struck, nor do we have penis envy.  In Johns case, he has moments of really good stuff, but overall the stuff is repetitive, monotonous, politically correct and often boring.   To me, life offers more exciting fishing trips than John Gierach does in his writing.   So sue me. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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: In my critical estimation, as a consumer of flyfishing books, John Gierach : is a good writer, but not a great writer.  He got someone to publish him, in : my opinion, and the rest is history.   Steve Spinolio is a better writer, in : my book, than John Gierach, or Russell Chatham.   I didn’t know Spinolio had written anything beyond a post or two, one of which I have on my office wall.  Where can I find his writing?   To be a writer, one must write.  I battle with this everyday.  I suspect most do. At the very least, Gierach writes in large amount.  That’s something to be proud of.   — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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Does Gierach still live in Lyons? I spent summers there (I’m an East Coast boy) in the early ’70’s and fished the St. Vrain top to bottom–my grandfather owned the trailer park in the big bend just outside of Lyons (next box up from the park.) I think I trespassed on his property a few times. Dave

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:I enjoy John Geirach at :least as much or more than E. Donnel Thomas, "Whitefish Can’t Jump", but :they are very much on the same, simple, short story format that does not :define great writers. You were doing just fine Moe until you said the above which caused me to laugh out loud. You can’t take those darn short stories seriously, you slay me sometimes… TC

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they are very much on the same, simple, short story format that does not define great writers.

I gotta wonder what Ernest Hemmingway woulda said about that. Big Two Hearted River for example, is far from simple. Ben

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: In my critical estimation, as a consumer of flyfishing books, John Gierach : is a good writer, but not a great writer.  He got someone to publish him, in : my opinion, and the rest is history.   Steve Spinolio is a better writer, in : my book, than John Gierach, or Russell Chatham.   I didn’t know Spinolio had written anything beyond a post or two, one of which I have on my office wall.  Where can I find his writing?  

Any idea when he is to return? Or if he will? Kiyu

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I actually met John Gierach in Lyons, Colorado at Mike Clarks shop  this last fall.  We stopped by the shop on our way to the Frying Pan.  John G.  was actually very pleasant and eventhough he didn’t have to stay and talk, he did. I haven’t read all the posts about him, but wanted to put in me 2 cents worth about my brief contact with him and how he seemed like a pretty decent guy, besides being a great writer!

If Geirach is really the guy he says he is in his writing, then he reallly doesn’t give a rat’s ass about all these postings about him, pro and con. If he logs on to defend himself, you may be assured he is a fraud. I predict with the former.  One problem I see here is that many insist on judging him as a flyfisherman, based on his writings. The only way you can judge him as a flyfisher, is to fly fish with him. As a reader, you must judge him as an outdoor writer, an entertainer, if you will. On that basis I find him well worth an evening in the easy chair. Since I haven’t fished with him, I can’t comment on the other. DAO DAO

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If Geirach is really the guy he says he is in his writing, then he reallly

doesn’t give a rat’s ass about all these postings about him, pro and con. If he logs on to defend himself, you may be assured he is a fraud. Funny you should bring that up, Dale. I was with John for an hour or so last week, and asked him if he was aware of the dialog about him on the internet. He just chuckled and said, "Yeah,  the guys told me about it. Sounds like those people are pissing away some good fishing time wrangling over nothing." … or words to that effect. He won’t be logging on. He doesn’t own a computer. As a reader, you must judge him as an outdoor writer, an entertainer, if you

will. On that basis I find him, well worth an evening in the easy chair.< Precisely.

Response:

If you read past the subject line in these posts, you would have had no needto

defend him on those scores. Your right Moe, I was arguing apples and oranges here. My apologies.  He got someone to publish him, in

my opinion, and the rest is history. Right again, but he didn’t get just "anyone" to publish him. Pruett, Lyons, Simon & Shuster and Stackpole are hardly the kind of publishing houses to invest in ho-hum writers. <  Steve Spinolio is a better writer, inmy book, than John Gierach, or Russell Chatham … or E. Donnel Thomas I’m not familiar with Spinolio. Is he someone I should be reading. Know where I can find any of his stuff?, but they are very much on the same, simple, short story format that does not

define great writers.  I suspect you may open a real can of worms with that judgement, Moe. A sad truth is, IMO, the sale of books often has as much to do with the

publishers backing them and the level of gloss on the dust jacket as it does quality of content. Maybe, but again, big publishing houses aren’t likely to invest in writers whose work doesn’t sell. As for" quality of content", that’s a pretty subjective matter.   The number of sales define the number of awards… I’m not so sure that’s an accurate statement. Lyons didn’t publish Trout Bum, nor much of Gierach’s other works. And if I’m not mistaken, John won the Traver Award for a fictional piece that appeared in FR & R. nor do we have penis envy.

????Where’d that come from?   In Johns case, he has moments of really good stuff, but overall the stuff is repetitive, monotonous, politically correct and often boring.  To me, life offers more exciting fishing trips than John Gierach does in his writing.  So sue me. Actually, I’d rather go fishing with you, but If I were to sue-  and win – how much could I get? later DES

Response:

To be a writer, one must write.  I battle with this everyday.  I suspect most

do. Amen to that. At the very least, Gierach writes in large amount.  That’s something to be

proud of. And to that one, as well. DES

Response:

Much of Shakepeare’s work was "formulaic" and "Typical" yet in retrospect his work is viewed as "ground breaking".  Perhaps Gierach’s stuff needs the appreciation that only time and distance can impart to the nonappreciative and overly cautious segments of his audience.

Response:

I find it humerous that all these straight laced flyfisherman find the time to criticize one of their own. I pose a question to any of you who find it within your right to criticize John at a personal or professional level:Have you ever had a conversation with the man? Do you know him and how he lives and his quality of life? I think that most critics would say NO to these questions. John is a very simple man. He’s a very acute journalist who has developed a style both in and out of the newspapers of his own. He is a fine flyfisherman and a generally nice guy to know. Most people who know him feel the same way. If one thing you can say of John, and I hope not to insult him with this comparison, but hes like the Senator from my state Jesse Helms. You may not always agree with him but you always know where he stands, he doesn’t teeter or waiver from his beliefs. A quality I believe to be a goal for most men. The other point is I believe that most flyfisherman, a strangely stoic bunch as it goes, are somewhat jealous of a man who can do what most of us want to do ALL the time instead of just some of the time, like most of us. So don’t wander down a road that you’re not familiar with, you may hit a tree or a parked car or Butch, the local dog who everybody in town knows would be sleeping in the road at 2:00pm on a tuesday. It might be hazardous. Jim Brady

Response:

I was with you until you last paragraph. Literature, great and small, is open game to critics and it is wonderful for an author to have a defender. But, to think that people offer an descenting opinion because they are jealous of a guy who fishes for a living is absurd. By in large, my fly fishers are smarter and better read than that. It’s an opinion. Agree. Disagree. Who cares. I can speak to the issue with a decent amount of authority. I have been in the communications industry for 27-plus years and have only fly fished for half that time. Gierach is a fine writer. I have most of his books. But, I think we all can agree that he is not producing groundbreaking work here. His stuff is Day Berry In Waders, whihc is fine. Hell, Dave Berry won a Pulitzer. As much as I like Gierach, he gets, like anyone else who writes for pay alot, myself included, formulaic, and hence some of his stuff becomes "typical". Knowing where someone stands is not necessarily the greatest commendation one can make about literature. Read Mein Kampf and you know where that guy stood too! My view is simple, stuff like Gierach’s should entertain and inform. Period. I do not expect it to change my life or create a new vision for my life. I leave that to far better writers with something to say on the topic. But, as for whiling away an evening after slaving over a hot word processor all day, I’ll take Gierach any day of the week. Ask the man and I am sure he will tell you he is not out to change the world. He’;s a writer and damn few of us are good enough to change the world. But, if we any good at what we do, we can inform and entertain for a while, even a moment. So, lighten up! Besides, I think Gierach is a big boy and can defend himself nicely. Hollis – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I find it humerous that all these straight laced flyfisherman find the time to criticize one of their own. I pose a question to any of you who find it within your right to criticize John at a personal or professional level:Have you ever had a conversation with the man? Do you know him and how he lives and his quality of life? I think that most critics would say NO to these questions. John is a very simple man. He’s a very acute journalist who has developed a style both in and out of the newspapers of his own. He is a fine flyfisherman and a generally nice guy to know. Most people who know him feel the same way. If one thing you can say of John, and I hope not to insult him with this comparison, but hes like the Senator from my state Jesse Helms. You may not always agree with him but you always know where he stands, he doesn’t teeter or waiver from his beliefs. A quality I believe to be a goal for most men. The other point is I believe that most flyfisherman, a strangely stoic bunch as it goes, are somewhat jealous of a man who can do what most of us want to do ALL the time instead of just some of the time, like most of us. So don’t wander down a road that you’re not familiar with, you may hit a tree or a parked car or Butch, the local dog who everybody in town knows would be sleeping in the road at 2:00pm on a tuesday. It might be hazardous. Jim Brady

Response:

Another follow-up on this thread… Just don’t read or buy the books he has written if you don’t like his writing.  As for me, I like a lot of what John has written. Most of his writing is non-technical, and therefore fine pleasure reading, if I’m into it. While Christmas cleaning btw, I perused through a lot of old Fly Fisherman and Rod and Reel Mags in my collection dating all the way back to the early eighties.  The writer in question (John) has been around for a long time, has "paid his dues," and in a professional sense is worthy of respect even if many people don’t like his work.  No need for debate or slander of the individual on a ng forum. Wayne Fenior Midland, MI – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was with you until you last paragraph. Literature, great and small, is open game to critics and it is wonderful for an author to have a defender. But, to think that people offer an descenting opinion because they are jealous of a guy who fishes for a living is absurd. By in large, my fly fishers are smarter and better read than that. It’s an opinion. Agree. Disagree. Who cares. I can speak to the issue with a decent amount of authority. I have been in the communications industry for 27-plus years and have only fly fished for half that time. Gierach is a fine writer. I have most of his books. But, I think we all can agree that he is not producing groundbreaking work here. His stuff is Day Berry In Waders, whihc is fine. Hell, Dave Berry won a Pulitzer. As much as I like Gierach, he gets, like anyone else who writes for pay alot, myself included, formulaic, and hence some of his stuff becomes "typical". Knowing where someone stands is not necessarily the greatest commendation one can make about literature. Read Mein Kampf and you know where that guy stood too! My view is simple, stuff like Gierach’s should entertain and inform. Period. I do not expect it to change my life or create a new vision for my life. I leave that to far better writers with something to say on the topic. But, as for whiling away an evening after slaving over a hot word processor all day, I’ll take Gierach any day of the week. Ask the man and I am sure he will tell you he is not out to change the world. He’;s a writer and damn few of us are good enough to change the world. But, if we any good at what we do, we can inform and entertain for a while, even a moment. So, lighten up! Besides, I think Gierach is a big boy and can defend himself nicely. Hollis

Response:

Tim, I think if I could paraphrase your response–if you’re gonna set up shop as an icon (or let others set you up), you better expect some iconoclasts will come along. It goes with the job. I have to agree…good, not great. Trouble is, good writers don’t usually stay in print 50 years later. And in 100 years, no one remembers who the good writers were. That’s a tribute for great writers, and I don’t think we should start throwing that appelation around lightly. BTW–do you know where these straight-laced, stoic fishermen are. They’re not around here, that’s for damned sure! I don’t think I last an afternoon fishing with one of ‘em! Roger

Response:

I find it humerous that all these straight laced flyfisherman find the time to criticize one of their own.

        (lots of stuff snipped) , but hes like the Senator from my state Jesse Helms. You may not always agree with him but you always know where he stands, he doesn’t teeter or waiver from his beliefs. A quality I believe to be a goal for most men.

        let me tell you, jack, that he is also my senior senator, a fact that renders me nauseous, but is presently unavoidable.  and if you think ol jesse wouldn’t sell every goddam inch of hazel creek to the highest bidder in the tree cuttin industry, then you are blind as a bat.  and having read gierach, i can’t believe he would accept such a comparison. The other point is I believe that most flyfisherman, a strangely stoic bunch as it goes, are somewhat jealous of a man who can do what most of us want to do ALL the time instead of just some of the time,

        how much the guy fishes has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of his prose.  which, imho, is very high.  but your apology for him, in the face of timbo’s protestations, is lamentable.         a. wayne harrison

Response:

Much of Shakepeare’s work was "formulaic" and "Typical" yet in retrospect his work is viewed as "ground breaking".  Perhaps Gierach’s stuff needs the appreciation that only time and distance can impart to the nonappreciative and overly cautious segments of his audience.

Is it really you ?  I thought you were dead ? Comparing Gierach to Shakespeare ? Like the guy that painted a happy face on a dairy cows underside. Udderly Silly. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

I find it humerous that all these straight laced flyfisherman

I’ve spent enough time around this group the past couple of years to know that most of the laces don’t get any crookeder than the ones you’ll find round here. Nope…not a straight lace in the bunch (I say that with pride, so don’t anyone get offended). Roger

Response:

Much of Shakepeare’s work was "formulaic" and "Typical" yet in retrospect his work is viewed as "ground breaking".  Perhaps Gierach’s stuff needs the appreciation that only time and distance can impart to the nonappreciative and overly cautious segments of his audience.

I would have to disagree on calling much of Shakespeare formulaic or typical. Sure, he may have used some common conventions and story lines adopted from other sources, but if you compare Shakespeare’s King Lear, for example, with contemporary version’s like Nahum Tate’s, Big Bill the Bard’s on a whole new plane. As for Geirach I don’t think the same can be said. I have read and enjoyed his work as light reading over my lunch hour. Or on a camping trip. Groundbreaking? Unconventional? Original? I don’t think so. There is very little that hasn’t been done before by others, and won’t be done again. It’s not even a terribly distinctive voice. This doesn’t make it unpleasant or without value. But I don’t think it’s the kind of stuff posterity is going to elevate into the canon of great works. If you went back 100-200 years and looked at the best selling books…other than the bible, you probably wouldn’t recogize many of them. The reason they were so popular was not that they were original, but rather that they perfectly mimicked the conventions of their day. They appealed to contemporary tastes. That…I think…is what Geirach does. He ain’t writing for the ages. Roger

Response:

Seems to me that how nice a guy a person is, how authentic or otherwise attractive his lifestyle might ain’t got a lot to do with the quality of his writing, and thus the orig. poster just misses the point of some of Gierach’s detractors entirely. Hemmingway, for instance, does not seem to be the kind of guy one would enjoy spending lots of time with, and while through happy circumstances I can afford to fish as much as Gierach (or maybe even more), that don’t make me a writer.         That said, I think that most if not all of Gierach’s detractors miss a point too, and that is that almost no author I know of who has turned out more than just a book or two is able to maintain the same quality of prose over and over and over again. But even then, there are authors who write one great great work and then are either silent or write crap, and others who simply maintain a fairly high level consistently  throughout their careers.         For my money I suspect some of Gierach’s stuff

Question:

I don’t want to spend $3.50 and up for Clousers (via Orvis or my local shop) and while LL Bean’s got em for $2.25 or so (much more in line), they don’t sell them in 1/0, which is pretty much the size I want.  So, does anyone know a good mailorder source for Clousers at a reasonable price? Thanks!

My friend Jim Dionne at Dirigo Flies says he can help you out, and hit your price range Give him a call at (800) 893-2815 tell him you’re the guy from the internet I told him about.                                         jc

Response:

while LL Bean’s got em for $2.25 or so (much more in line), they don’t sell them in 1/0, which is pretty much the size I want.  So, does anyone know a good mailorder source for Clousers at a reasonable price? Thanks!

Yes I do!  But they only have 2/0, 2, and 6 ($2.25), and the 2/0 only in chartreuse and white (which by the way is my favorite saltwater color!). They are the Fly Fishing Shop in Welches Oregon.  They have a wonderful web site at www.teleport.com/~flyfish  Their number is 503-622-4607. They are pleasure to deal with long distance, and I’m willing to bet they can get you what you want in any color with a little advance notice.  Good luck! Phil

Response:

while LL Bean’s got em for $2.25 or so (much more in line), they don’t sell them in 1/0, which is pretty much the size I want.  So, does anyone know a good mailorder source for Clousers at a reasonable price? Thanks! Yes I do!  But they only have 2/0, 2, and 6 ($2.25), and the 2/0 only in chartreuse and white (which by the way is my favorite saltwater color!). They are the Fly Fishing Shop in Welches Oregon.  They have a wonderful web site at www.teleport.com/~flyfish  Their number is 503-622-4607. They are pleasure to deal with long distance, and I’m willing to bet they can get you what you want in any color with a little advance notice.  Good luck! Phil

I have an on line catalog and have the Clousers in any size and color that you want. You can see my catalog at http://www.surfsouth.com/~jbranham/retailcatalog.html

Response:

I don’t want to spend $3.50 and up for Clousers (via Orvis or my local shop) and while LL Bean’s got em for $2.25 or so (much more in line), they don’t sell them in 1/0, which is pretty much the size I want.  So, does anyone know a good mailorder source for Clousers at a reasonable price? Thanks!

Hello- This is probably not what you want to here, but… I would suggest learning to tie them yourself. Clousers are extremely easy to tie and the materials are cheap. I am not a very fast tyer, and I just turned out 10 in the last hour. I tied them on 3/0 for salt water use (Mustad 3407 hooks at about $7/100). That way you can tie them in any size or color combo you want. Even if you don’t tie now with just a few very basic lessons you can tie clousers. Good Luck! Steve Rosenblum

Response:

I don’t want to spend $3.50 and up for Clousers (via Orvis or my local shop) and while LL Bean’s got em for $2.25 or so (much more in line), they don’t sell them in 1/0, which is pretty much the size I want.  So, does anyone know a good mailorder source for Clousers at a reasonable price? Thanks!

Response:

I don’t want to spend $3.50 and up for Clousers (via Orvis or my local shop) and while LL Bean’s got em for $2.25 or so (much more in line), they don’t sell them in 1/0, which is pretty much the size I want.  So, does anyone know a good mailorder source for Clousers at a reasonable price? Thanks!

Try to get a second hand vice and tie your own. They are the most simple saltwater fly to tie and you can make a hundred for what it costs to buy ten at Orvis prices. Get the cheapest vice you can find at first and THEN decide if you want to keep tying. If so, consider the best vice you can afford and prepare yourself for the plethora of tying materials you will want to buy along with the books, videos and CD-ROMs you will get to learn how to tie. Good Luck,         jmc

Response:

Question:

What would the readers recommend for fly patterns.  I am planning to use a floating line with a surface fly for a strike indicator and a midge or scud or brassie for the dropper.  The dropper will be tied to the bend of the surface fly and extend for 1.5 times the depth of the water that I find myself fishing in. What would you recommend for the surface fly/dropper combinations and please include size and color recommendations. Thanks in advance. Dan —  Intel, Corp.  5000 W. Chandler Blvd.  Chandler, AZ  85226

Response:

: What would the readers recommend for fly patterns.  I am planning to use a : floating line with a surface fly for a strike indicator and a midge or scud or : brassie for the dropper.  The dropper will be tied to the bend of the surface : fly and extend for 1.5 times the depth of the water that I find myself fishing : in. : : What would you recommend for the surface fly/dropper combinations and please : include size and color recommendations. If you use a search engine and type "Fly Fishing in Arizona" it should lead you to the home page which is updated (either weekly or monthly) with the latest info on all parts of Arizona. It gives water levels, current conditions, fly patterns, tips for the week, and lots more…great resource.   Good luck and post a trip report. **   Mark Olson           # "In any audience, twenty percent  ** **   Las Vegas Academy    #  minds drift and sixty percent    ** **   Brooks Alumni        #  are actively engaged in sexual   ** **   Class of ‘88         #  fantasies."                      ** **   Member PIEA          #            —Gov. Pete Wilson    **

Response:

Question:

I try to bring a rod/reel with me when I backpack (my friend always brings his).  I mainly bring a few flys with me.  I think a good time to fish is when the mosquitos come out.  If you look at a lake you’ll see if fish are in there when the mosquitos are out (feeding time). Harold. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Alright, the truth has to come out sooner or later.  Why is there never a post on fishing and backpacking?  Don’t ask me to go to the alt.fishing newsgroup–those people are dedicated.  I am not.  I just want to know what I can expect if I carry a very small collapsible rod and mini-reel.  Whenever I try to fish in the backcountry, I come across tiny streams that look like there is no hope or mountain lake that is snow-free for all of two months a year and you can see to the bottom of and personally verify there are no fish in its sterile environment.  In 25 years of mountain backpacking, I have never caught a fish–although I do pretty good in the stocked lowlands. Does anyone have any wilderness fishing secrets to share with us?   Who packs a rod and are glad they did?  Secret bait?  Techniques? Equipment?  Eggs, worms, lures?  Just give it up?  Hunt for crawdads instead?  Catching local bait?  Set a line overnight?  Anything . . . — John Kiljan

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – An interesting thread. I’d like to ask a question of the experienced mountain fishermen out there : Is there a "fish line" analogous to timberline ? i.e. an altitude above which you will not find fish ? We’re heading for CO next week and I know of a gorgeous little lake way up around 13,000. Any chance there’ll be fish in it ? I don’t know the answer but the highest lake I have fished at with success is the Upper Hancock Lake (near the ghost town of St. Elmo) and it is, if memory serves me, just over 11,000 feet. One other lake (where I had the best fishing day of my life) is also just over 11,000 feet. Geez, 13,000 feet seems pretty high up there for fishing?

To the best of my knowledge,  trout are not native to most alpine lakes.  There is always a fall or bad rapids that prevents upstream migration.  If there are fish in high country lakes, they probably are stocked.  You’ll just have to ask.  the best place is a local fly shop. …… Seek harmony and balance in the mountains, find harmony and balance within…..

Response:

Alright, the truth has to come out sooner or later.  Why is there never a post on fishing and backpacking?  Don’t ask me to go to the alt.fishing newsgroup–those people are dedicated.  I am not.  I just want to know what I can expect if I carry a very small collapsible rod and mini-reel.  

Well, here is an answer from a dedicated fisherman who backpacks. Whenever I try to fish in the backcountry, I come across tiny streams that look like there is no hope or mountain lake that is snow-free for all of two months a year and you can see to the bottom of and personally verify there are no fish in its sterile environment.  In 25 years of mountain backpacking, I have never caught a fish–although I do pretty good in the stocked lowlands.

Hard to say why you have never seen a fish up in the mountains… They are harder to see because they are wild and blend in with the bottom better, and they tend to be a lot smaller due to the restricted growing season. Does anyone have any wilderness fishing secrets to share with us?   Who packs a rod and are glad they did?  Secret bait?  Techniques? Equipment?  Eggs, worms, lures?  Just give it up?  Hunt for crawdads instead?  Catching local bait?  Set a line overnight?  Anything . . .

The secret? Flies. Pure and simple. Wild trout feed on insects. Learn how to fly fish. I rarely fail to catch at least a few in most of the high mountain streams and lakes. At least in the California Sierra Nevada Moutains. Darryl Hayashida

Response:

snip Does anyone have any wilderness fishing secrets to share with us?   Who packs a rod and are glad they did?  Secret bait?  Techniques? Equipment?  Eggs, worms, lures?  Just give it up?  Hunt for crawdads instead?  Catching local bait?  Set a line overnight?  Anything . . . — John Kiljan

Hi John,         I do a lot of solo hiking and always carry fishing equipment which pays for the space and weight.  Most of my experience is in Yosemite and Sequoia, and I’ve never failed to catch small native trout.  I know there are a lot of purist who’ll object, but this is food, and I eat every one.         I carry a collapsible 7′ rod, a mini spinning reel with 4# mono line.  I use #18 bronze treble hooks and carry a black film canister filled with fresh velveta.  I barely cover the hook, this is small, like the head of a book match.  More will work, not any better though, and the fish are usually small anyway.         I fly fish some, so I understand a little about reading water.  I found fish in 4" slow runs, places too small to hide a canteen, places you’d swear wouldn’t hold a 6" trout.  I don’t cast, just drop it in and let the water pull off some line, and when it stops I reel in the slack.  Never counted how many tries to catch a fish, but I’ve never gotten bored or hungry.         Landing the fish is no problem.  I use the 2" blade on my Swiss Army knife to clean them per the Rappalla book.  I rinse them well and nestle them head to tail, wrap them in aluminum foil, and place them in the hot embers.  They have a lot of flavor.         Other things in my fishing kit:                 Red plastic hook disgorger with the big end cut off and                         the shaft roughened                 A clean plastic super market vegetable bag which I rinse                         and use again to put the dispatched fish on my                         belt                 1/4 of an old facecloth for picking up wigglin’ fish         Guess there are some other things I carry, sliding sinkers for lakes, a couple of small casting lures to amuse myself with, and a couple  plastic look-alike bugs.  Hope this helps. –Charleroi

Response:

Do you really think that experienced people are going post their favorite fishing spot? Would you like by some land which occasionally above water? I don’t fish, so I won’t suggest that people fish at the V. place. But others can.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The secret? Flies. Pure and simple. Wild trout feed on insects. Learn how to fly fish. I rarely fail to catch at least a few in most of the high mountain streams and lakes. At least in the California Sierra Nevada Moutains. I like fly fishing too, but I doubt that it is "the secret". I have used a lightweight (4 lb test) with 1/16 oz. spinners and never failed to bring home fish for dinner in Colorado. I go for the fly fishing also.  But, the learning curve can be brutal. For someone not into fly fishing, I recommend spinners (ie: Mepps ‘0′) on a high quality 2 lb test line, -or- Power Bait fished 6 to 9 inches off the bottom with a tight line. Nothing to be proud of but they will catch fish. — I find that most people fall into one of two groups.  Those that are quick to tell you that it can’t be done, and those who are quick to try to make it work.  When all is said and done, I hope to be counted in the second group.  -  George  POWER BAIT??? That’s as bad as baiting bears!!! Shame on you.

I thought they were talking about trout.  When I go for bear I use a much heavier line.  2lbs test is just not strong enough for bear. My mistake. — I find that most people fall into one of two groups.  Those that are quick to tell you that it can’t be done, and those who are quick to try to make it work.  When all is said and done, I hope to be counted in the second group.  -  George

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The secret? Flies. Pure and simple. Wild trout feed on insects. Learn how to fly fish. I rarely fail to catch at least a few in most of the high mountain streams and lakes. At least in the California Sierra Nevada Moutains. I like fly fishing too, but I doubt that it is "the secret". I have used a lightweight (4 lb test) with 1/16 oz. spinners and never failed to bring home fish for dinner in Colorado. I go for the fly fishing also.  But, the learning curve can be brutal. For someone not into fly fishing, I recommend spinners (ie: Mepps ‘0′) on a high quality 2 lb test line, -or- Power Bait fished 6 to 9 inches off the bottom with a tight line. Nothing to be proud of but they will catch fish. — I find that most people fall into one of two groups.  Those that are quick to tell you that it can’t be done, and those who are quick to try to make it work.  When all is said and done, I hope to be counted in the second group.  -  George  POWER BAIT??? That’s as bad as baiting bears!!! Shame on you.

Actually, I thought they were walking about trout.  When I go for bear I use a much heaver line.  2 lbs test is just too light for bear. — I find that most people fall into one of two groups.  Those that are quick to tell you that it can’t be done, and those who are quick to try to make it work.  When all is said and done, I hope to be counted in the second group.  -  George

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The secret? Flies. Pure and simple. Wild trout feed on insects. Learn how to fly fish. I rarely fail to catch at least a few in most of the high mountain streams and lakes. At least in the California Sierra Nevada Moutains. I like fly fishing too, but I doubt that it is "the secret". I have used a lightweight (4 lb test) with 1/16 oz. spinners and never failed to bring home fish for dinner in Colorado. I go for the fly fishing also.  But, the learning curve can be brutal. For someone not into fly fishing, I recommend spinners (ie: Mepps ‘0′) on a high quality 2 lb test line, -or- Power Bait fished 6 to 9 inches off the bottom with a tight line. Nothing to be proud of but they will catch fish. — I find that most people fall into one of two groups.  Those that are quick to tell you that it can’t be done, and those who are quick to try to make it work.  When all is said and done, I hope to be counted in the second group.  -  George

  POWER BAIT???  That’s as bad as baiting bears!!! Shame on you.

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The secret? Flies. Pure and simple. Wild trout feed on insects. Learn how to fly fish. I rarely fail to catch at least a few in most of the high mountain streams and lakes. At least in the California Sierra Nevada Moutains. I like fly fishing too, but I doubt that it is "the secret". I have used a lightweight (4 lb test) with 1/16 oz. spinners and never failed to bring home fish for dinner in Colorado.

I go for the fly fishing also.  But, the learning curve can be brutal. For someone not into fly fishing, I recommend spinners (ie: Mepps ‘0′) on a high quality 2 lb test line, -or- Power Bait fished 6 to 9 inches off the bottom with a tight line. Nothing to be proud of but they will catch fish. — I find that most people fall into one of two groups.  Those that are quick to tell you that it can’t be done, and those who are quick to try to make it work.  When all is said and done, I hope to be counted in the second group.  -  George

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writes: The secret? Flies. Pure and simple. Wild trout feed on insects. Learn how to fly fish.

I use flies, but I don’t know how to fly fish in the traditional sense. I use a spinning rod and reel. About 2-3 feet from the end of the line I attach a elongated teardrop-shaped bobber. It has a rubber tube inside that the line slides through, then to secure it, I just give it a few twists. A plug opens on one end that I can fill with water; too much and it’ll sink, too little and I can’t cast far. Simple! Then I just tie on a fly on the end of the line and, wallah, flyfishing for people like me! My knowledge is that most high lakes in Washington state are stocked. I’m not sure how to tell the difference between wild and harvested fish. Anyone know? Jason R. wherever you go, there you are – HDT

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: An interesting thread. I’d like to ask a question of the : experienced mountain fishermen out there : Is there : a "fish line" analogous to timberline ? i.e. an altitude : above which you will not find fish ? : We’re heading for CO next week and I know of a gorgeous : little lake way up around 13,000. Any chance there’ll : be fish in it ? I’ve fished Ice Lake in the Eagle Cap Wilderness and caught many 6 – 8 inch trout.  Ice Lake is at 8,000 ft.  That’s the highest lake with fish that I know of, but it was stocked back in the ’20s.

Colorado has excellent fishing in alpine lakes above 9000′ primarily as a result of aerial stocking begun in the 1950’s. Cutthroat trout are the most common with brook and rainbow trout doing well also.Due to the pristine environment, abundant aquatic insect population and light fishing pressure these trout can grow larger than their cousins in low altitude streams and rivers. The dramatic changes in water temperature of high lakes probably has the greatest effect on fishing success. As the sun warms water close to shore the fish will migrate to the center or to deeper areas of the lake. Not very productive for a fisherman stuck on the shore. For this reason the higher the lake is the better, especially as summer wears on and the lower lakes gradually become warmer. Regards,  Brian

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Third, the biggest mistake that people make when they fish alpine lakes is that they do not fish deeply enough.  Most of my fly fishing is with an extra-fast sinking shooting head (this will mean something to flyfishers), at depths of 20-40 ft.  Fishing deep is easy with spinning gear; you just need to let your spinner sink.

Would you mind terribly to expound a little bit on "extra-fast sinking shooting head" for us novice fly fishers? I mean, this is some sort of wet fly? Do you need a sinking line (maybe that is obvious but I will ask anyway). Thanks, Lawrence Kennon

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Alright, the truth has to come out sooner or later.  Why is there never a post on fishing and backpacking?

There are: In "rec.outdoors.fishing.fly"  Virtually all of my backcountry travel centers on fly fishing.  I usually make one trip a year into the GSMNP and one trip into the Wind River Range.  The former is stream fishing, the latter almost exclusively lake fishing.  Most of these lakes are at or above timberline.  I don’t want to rub it in, but we always catch fish; lots of them too. Let me take the liberty to answer some questions and clarify some misconceptions: First, just because you can’t see fish does not mean they aren’t there. You have to look VERY carefully to see fish, must have a trained eye, and you must have polarized glasses (to reduce glare).  Keep in mind that trout are prey for many beasts of the wild, and if you can see them, they can almost certainly see you.  On many occasions, the only fish I ever see are those in my hand when I’m releasing them!   Second, there are few lakes of any size in the U.S. that really have only a 2-month ice out.  There are lots of lakes, however, that may be completely iced out for only 3 months or so.  This does not preclude a productive fishery.  I have fished lakes in the Wind River Range that are ice free for at most 4 months a year (July-Oct), and yet are extremely productive.  I fished a lake last year at 11,000 ft that held cutthroats up to nearly 30 inches (yep, 30 inches, not 30 centimeters).  This lake was still 1/4 iced-in the first week of August!  There probably is a limit to how high a lake can be and still support fish, but it is probably about the same limit as for people, which is higher than 13,000 ft (I think it is between 15K and 18K, but can’t remember). Third, the biggest mistake that people make when they fish alpine lakes is that they do not fish deeply enough.  Most of my fly fishing is with an extra-fast sinking shooting head (this will mean something to flyfishers), at depths of 20-40 ft.  Fishing deep is easy with spinning gear; you just need to let your spinner sink. Fourth, although it is true that few alpine lakes outside of the Sierras have native trout, many alpine lakes have self sustaining populations of wild trout.  For example, none of the lakes in the Winds originally had fish.  Much of the stocking was done by Finis Mitchell and his family in the 1920s and 1930s.  Many of these lakes have received no fish since then. Fifth, there are fishless alpine lakes out there, no doubt about it.  Lakes can be too shallow (they freeze solid, or nearly so); they can become oxygen depleted in the winter (esp. a problem if there is no inlet or outlet); and the water can be so sterile that there aren’t enough nutrients to feed the bugs that feed the fish (typically a problem for the first lake immediately below glaciers, etc.). If you have any questions, I’d be happy to try to answer them, except for the names of the lakes .  2-3 months of the year, and yet are extremely productive fisheries. are ice free for

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The secret? Flies. Pure and simple. Wild trout feed on insects. Learn how to fly fish. I rarely fail to catch at least a few in most of the high mountain streams and lakes. At least in the California Sierra Nevada Moutains. I like fly fishing too, but I doubt that it is "the secret". I have used a lightweight (4 lb test) with 1/16 oz. spinners and never failed to bring home fish for dinner in Colorado. lk

Spinners would be my second choice if I didn’t have my fly fishing gear with me. I fished spinners for ten years before I started fly fishing. It isn’t that one is more successful than the other, I just enjoy fly fishing, especially dry fly fishing more than spin fishing. My favorite spinner was (still is on the rare occasion that I spin fish) a size 1 or 2 (small) Panther Martin black body with yellow spots, gold blade. Darryl Hayashida

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: An interesting thread. I’d like to ask a question of the : experienced mountain fishermen out there : Is there : a "fish line" analogous to timberline ? i.e. an altitude : above which you will not find fish ? : We’re heading for CO next week and I know of a gorgeous : little lake way up around 13,000. Any chance there’ll : be fish in it ? I’ve fished Ice Lake in the Eagle Cap Wilderness and caught many 6 – 8 inch trout.  Ice Lake is at 8,000 ft.  That’s the highest lake with fish that I know of, but it was stocked back in the ’20s.

As someone else commented, most of the alpine lakes in CO were stocked at some time.  My father-in-law worked for Colorado Fish and Game, and one of his jobs was stocking wilderness lakes. He’d ride a horse and lead a pack string with panniers filled with fingerlings!  Lakes that were farther than a day’s ride, or inaccessible by horseback, were stocked by helicopter.  That must have been a sight! We’ve caught trout in lakes at 12,160 feet.  Most very high lakes are small and freeze thickly in the winter, so many are sterile unless there is ongoing stocking.  Trout are able to swim through some pretty impressive falls, though, so there is some migration, and if the lake is big enough the fish will be ok through the winter. Most of the lakes I’ve backpacked to in the Colorado high country have fish in them.  This doesn’t guarantee dinner, though. —   _][   Data Support Section * National Center for Atmospheric Research (NCAR)       __PO Box 3000, Boulder, Colorado 80307 * 303/497-1214 * 303/497-1298 fax

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: An interesting thread. I’d like to ask a question of the : experienced mountain fishermen out there : Is there : a "fish line" analogous to timberline ? i.e. an altitude : above which you will not find fish ? : We’re heading for CO next week and I know of a gorgeous : little lake way up around 13,000. Any chance there’ll : be fish in it ? I’ve fished Ice Lake in the Eagle Cap Wilderness and caught many 6 – 8 inch trout.  Ice Lake is at 8,000 ft.  That’s the highest lake with fish that I know of, but it was stocked back in the ’20s. greg rose

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The secret? Flies. Pure and simple. Wild trout feed on insects. Learn how to fly fish. I rarely fail to catch at least a few in most of the high mountain streams and lakes. At least in the California Sierra Nevada Moutains.

I like fly fishing too, but I doubt that it is "the secret". I have used a lightweight (4 lb test) with 1/16 oz. spinners and never failed to bring home fish for dinner in Colorado. lk

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It’s not hidden, you didn’t bother looking: Panel 26: Fishing         alt.fishing         alt.archery         rec.outdoors.fishing         rec.outdoors.fishing.fly         rec.boats Just like the white water paddlers. Like Muir said, Fishing is boring.

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An interesting thread. I’d like to ask a question of the experienced mountain fishermen out there : Is there a "fish line" analogous to timberline ? i.e. an altitude above which you will not find fish ? We’re heading for CO next week and I know of a gorgeous little lake way up around 13,000. Any chance there’ll be fish in it ? Gary

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An interesting thread. I’d like to ask a question of the experienced mountain fishermen out there : Is there a "fish line" analogous to timberline ? i.e. an altitude above which you will not find fish ? We’re heading for CO next week and I know of a gorgeous little lake way up around 13,000. Any chance there’ll be fish in it ?

I don’t know the answer but the highest lake I have fished at with success is the Upper Hancock Lake (near the ghost town of St. Elmo) and it is, if memory serves me, just over 11,000 feet. One other lake (where I had the best fishing day of my life) is also just over 11,000 feet. Geez, 13,000 feet seems pretty high up there for fishing? You will let us know how this turns out, won’t you? Lawrence Kennon

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alt.fishing newsgroup–those people are dedicated.  I am not.  I just want to know what I can expect if I carry a very small collapsible rod and mini-reel.  Whenever I try to fish in the backcountry, I come

I always do the same thing.  Most of my hiking  is done around larger bodies of water (lakes and such) Does anyone have any wilderness fishing secrets to share with us?   Who packs a rod and are glad they did?  Secret bait?  Techniques?

I’m always glad I packed the rod.  Even if I don’t catch anything (most of the time) I like to fish anyway.  Gives me an excuse not to do the dishes after supper! Andrew Roberts

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Does anyone have any wilderness fishing secrets to share with us?   Who packs a rod and are glad they did?  Secret bait?  Techniques? Equipment?  Eggs, worms, lures?  Just give it up?  Hunt for crawdads instead?  Catching local bait?  Set a line overnight?  Anything . . . I’ve had reasonable success in the last few years in fishing the

backcountry.  My buddy and I mostly catch-and-release (e.g. last year in Colorado we landed over 30 in an afternoon), but we sometimes keep enough to "have a feast."  I guess I could say that the secret is to be prepared for a "hunt" to find what the fish are interested in.  Last year, it was easy enough because they were hitting small spinners (e.g., Panther Martin’s and Mepps) on very light line (e.g. 2 lb.).  However, the previous year (in New Mexico), the fish just weren’t interested in anything in our "tackle box."  So, we resorted to using little grubs found in the stream bed (helgromites (sp), I believe they are called), and the fish went nuts.  We used a very small hook and "bobbed" the bait up and down.  Actually, it was more like try to get the hook into the water and out again before one latched on.  (I actually had one fish–they were native cut-throat–jump out of the water to get the bait).  So, a lot of trial-and-error will probably be necessary to find what they are attracted to.  However, it has been load of fun.  BTW:   These cases were both streams above 9000 feet.  My only recent experience with mountain lakes was a small lake in Apache-Setgreaves (Arizona), which had obviously been stocked with Artic Grayling (and "interesting" fish to pull out of the water in Arizona!).

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Does anyone have any wilderness fishing secrets to share with us?   Who packs a rod and are glad they did?  Secret bait?  Techniques? Equipment?  Eggs, worms, lures?  Just give it up?  Hunt for crawdads instead?  Catching local bait?  Set a line overnight?  Anything . . .

In Colorado I have had very good luck with a small spin casting rod/reel (4 lb test) using little 1/16 ounce spinners (Wooters, or Hooters, or something like that are my favorite). I have caught trout in lakes over 11,000 feet while standing on old snow on the bank and icebergs floating in the lake. Most of the lakes _do_ have edible (_very_ edible) trout in them. Have never had any luck on streams (haven’t really tried) but have seen fly fisherman catch them in streams. There is the little lake around Garfied (sorry, can’t tell you the name, that is my secret!) up about 11,000 feet or so, very small and fishable only at one end where it is deep enough. I had the best fishing day of my life there a couple years ago. We set up the tent and left the wife and kids to go look for a place to fish on this lake (first time there) and I found this little "hole" at one end. In a few minutes with approx. 7-8 casts I caught 5 great trout, several of them quite big. Needless to say we feasted that night. The bad news is that it is quite a hike off the beaten path to get there. Perhaps that is why there were a lot of hungry and unwary fish. Look for a lake like that, one that is _hard_ to get to, one that isn’t visited often. lk

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Alright, the truth has to come out sooner or later.  Why is there never a post on fishing and backpacking?  Don’t ask me to go to the alt.fishing newsgroup–those people are dedicated.  I am not.  I just want to know what I can expect if I carry a very small collapsible rod and mini-reel.  Whenever I try to fish in the backcountry, I come across tiny streams that look like there is no hope or mountain lake that is snow-free for all of two months a year and you can see to the bottom of and personally verify there are no fish in its sterile environment.  In 25 years of mountain backpacking, I have never caught a fish–although I do pretty good in the stocked lowlands. Does anyone have any wilderness fishing secrets to share with us?   Who packs a rod and are glad they did?  Secret bait?  Techniques? Equipment?  Eggs, worms, lures?  Just give it up?  Hunt for crawdads instead?  Catching local bait?  Set a line overnight?  Anything . . . — John Kiljan

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Question:

I am in the process of opening a new fly shop and would like to know of some fly wholesalers.  Please E-mail me with any info.  Shop owners, your help would be greatly appreciated.  THANKS

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I am in the process of opening a new fly shop and would like to know of some fly wholesalers.  Please E-mail me with any info.  Shop owners, your help would be greatly appreciated.  THANKS

Hi Dan Bailey’s is a good source of wholesale flies. Call 800-356-4052. Good Luck. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

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